1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: Movie producer John Pinnatti is best known for his work 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: on the smash hit Crazy Rich Asian, But what you 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: may not know is his producing work in Asia and 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: other territories around the world. Now he's here to talk 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: about his innovative strategy that's about as unlikely a breakthrough 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: as Crazy Rich Asians itself. Thanks for coming in, John, Hello, 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: and I'm really glad to be here, glad to have you. 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: You are no stranger to the movie business. Your name 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: has been attached to a lot of great indie films 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: from in the Bedrooms a Prairie Home Companion, But then 11 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: your career took a big turn. So walk us through 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: the before and after, and eventually we'll get too. Crazy 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: Rich Asians terrific. I began actually as a assistant director 14 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: for Sidney Lamett in the late nineties. Um he was 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: benevolent enough to take me on as a a wayward 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: medical student who decided that wasn't going to really work 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: out for me, and he allowed me to train alongside 18 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: he in a very tight knit group of filmmakers, crew, etcetera. 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: Who basically made a career just working on Sydney Lamett movies. 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: And I was fortunate enough to join that family and 21 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: trained in physical production and under his UH close tutelage. 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: When I started working with Sydney, I just loved the process. 23 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: I loved how he thought about making movies. I loved 24 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: how he prepared. And that led to creating a company 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: in New York City that focused on the um breaking down, budgeting, scheduling, 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: and helping to make sense out of what was on 27 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: the page and executing on screen. That company h was 28 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: called Concrete Productions. Soon after, I started a company called 29 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: Green Street Films in the mid nineties. We worked outside 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: the studio system. All of the financing for our films 31 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: came from independent equity participants. We we worked a lot 32 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: with Wall Street investors, and we just maybe out of 33 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: necessity and lack of experience, we didn't really look toward 34 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: the studio system for our financing, and that was kind 35 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: of a wonderful way to control what we wanted to make. 36 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: And starting with Lisa piccard Is Famous and The Chateau 37 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: and several other movies UH in the late nineties, and 38 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: then including In the Bedroom, which was in two thousand 39 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: and one, I believe we just were kind of eclectic. 40 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: If something interests us, then we could figure out if 41 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: financing plan we made it. And the independent film at 42 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: that time at Circle was it a good business to 43 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: be in. It was a terrific business to be in 44 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: because at the time there were buyers and there were 45 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: several buyers. Uh, Mirror Max was leading the pack for sure, 46 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: but along with Merri Max you had Fine Line and Warners, 47 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: Independent and um Think Films and other terrific outlets who 48 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: were looking for independent films and finding a strategy to 49 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: release those films. And for several years, including some of 50 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: our crossover stuff like Uptown Girls and Swim Fan. I 51 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: mean really, we would just make whatever interest us we 52 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: and we'd figure out, almost as an afterthought, how we 53 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: would distribute it. And for the most part we got 54 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: very lucky with that. That sounds so different than what 55 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: the film businesses today. You hit it on the head, Andrew, 56 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: that is that was a uh not just a different time, 57 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: but it was a different way to think about equity 58 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: risk in films. Uh. For us, we always felt there 59 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: was a way to work it out. So if you 60 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to attract multiple buyers, you had an 61 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: auction and still exists now for sure. But you're able 62 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: to sell it. If for some reason the film fell 63 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: short of attracting a theatrical there were still ways, uh 64 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: to um mitigate your risk, whether it was international sales, 65 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: whether it was a non theatrical release. Here and remember 66 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: at this point, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, all the streamers were 67 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: not part of our consciousness or anyone's consciousness. Uh, but 68 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: the DVD business is still robust, and people looked at 69 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: ancillary as UH, if we had enough elements, maybe there 70 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: was a way to work our way out of um 71 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: A a less than optimal theatrical film. UM And that 72 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: was great and helped balance our business to probably the 73 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: mid two thousands, when it doesn't seem like too long ago, 74 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: but I guess it was. These terrific independent distribution entities 75 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: were disappearing, like before our eyes. Warners went out at 76 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: Warners Independent went out of business, Think went out of business. Uh. 77 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: Merrimax was in a transition between UM that label and 78 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: the Weinstein Company. UM Fine Line I believe no longer 79 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: existed right at that time. And I'm sure I'm missing others, 80 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: but we just got caught. We got caught with several 81 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: several millions of dollars. Of investment in a slate of 82 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: films and uh really no one to sell them to. 83 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: You know, I'm exaggerating, but it was pretty close to that. 84 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: Um So if you missed the mark on some of these, 85 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: the the downside could have been catastrophic. Um So that 86 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: was a tough time, and we kind of had to 87 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: look inside ourselves and say, Okay, how do we work 88 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: our way out of this? UH quired cutting back um 89 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: on the size of the company, the uh incremental investments 90 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: we were going to take after that, and we really 91 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: just focused on the films we had in production and 92 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: how to work our way out of them. Um But 93 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: could it domestically facing business as you were running back 94 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: then continue to survive more or was it about finding 95 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: a completely different model? Uh? It wasn't going to survive 96 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: for us. Maybe there were other companies who had a 97 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: different strategies, but for us we were so um um 98 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: dependent on our upside coming from a domestic sale that 99 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: for us the model fell apart. And for me that 100 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: was a um an aha moment where I said, Wow, 101 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: I never want to be in a position again where 102 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: external forces could so radically upset the course of our business. 103 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: UM So I did, but I maybe anybody else would do. 104 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: I looked to greener pastures, and to me, Asia represented that. Um, 105 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: I should say, I don't think the average producer wouldn't 106 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: necessarily look to Asia because that is a completely different 107 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: world as the film business go. UM. Maybe I guess 108 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: from my point of view, living in New York City, UM, 109 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: having my closest of friends not in the film business 110 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: but in finance and law and international commerce, it kind 111 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: of seemed logical at that point, not necessarily from the 112 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: place of well, what's happening in the film business there, 113 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: but place of what's happening in trade there, what's happening 114 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: in commerce and um. And also I had to always 115 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: had an inclination towards you know, great Asian films that 116 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: I would never thought I'd be making, but I would 117 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: enjoy and quite frankly, what do I have to lose? 118 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: You know? At that point I didn't believe in the 119 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: model anymore. The money was still there. Quite frankly, we 120 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: had done well enough that there were still investors, but 121 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: I couldn't take investors money for a model I no 122 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: longer believed in. So what did you see exactly in 123 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: Asia that spoke to you as opportunity. So um I 124 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: landed in Beijing on kind of a fact finding mission 125 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: that included in that first ship a visit to Hong 126 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: Kong and a visit to Seoul. And the first thing 127 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: I saw, or the first thing I was introduced to, 128 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: was some two thousand and ten two thousand eleven was 129 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: the idea that the government was going to support a 130 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: growing film industry, and it was yet to materialize. Meeting 131 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: there was obviously a handful of incredible Chinese directors, but 132 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: it had not yet taken a turn into no, no, no, no, 133 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: we're going to make this work. And what I saw funny. 134 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: The first set of meetings I had were not really creative. 135 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: They were about construction and how many theaters were being built. 136 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: And so as a Westerner in from the movie business 137 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: entering into these meetings, the questions were in about hey, 138 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: do you have material, do you know directors? How do 139 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: you make movies? It was about anyone you can introduce 140 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: us to who could help advise on the building at theaters. 141 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: And if you recall around this time, and I don't 142 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: know the exact date, but AMC had been purchased and 143 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: there was a lot of attention given to UM, how 144 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: do we use the expertise of Western exhibition companies to 145 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: help build here. Maybe I wasn't involved at that level, 146 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: but the next level down, every real estate developer wants 147 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: to understand how they could build theaters. And that kind 148 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: of clicked in my head and said, well, something's going 149 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: on here. Someone clearly is getting a signal from the 150 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: Chinese government, from Chinese financiers that we need to invest 151 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: in infrastructure. So that that actually started the path. It 152 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: wasn't aha moment of there's five great directors I want 153 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: to work with in China. It was about this is 154 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: coming and we're not going to stop it, and it's 155 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: going to be something. UM. We're going We from the West, 156 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: both from a finance and production point of view, are 157 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: going to have to take notice of. I know it's 158 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: an often quoted UM statistic and I haven't checked recently, 159 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: but for many years, two screens per day we're coming 160 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: online in China, UM, and that includes Saturday and Sundays, 161 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: as I always like to say, UM. And I'm not 162 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: even sure what the penetration is now, but absolutely there's 163 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: more to go UM where you know I would arrive 164 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: in a second tier city. So travel from Beijing to 165 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: um Chin Dao and um and someone would say, yes, 166 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: Toruistic city, they have ten million people in it. That's 167 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: a second tire city. And there's eight theaters. And there's 168 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: just mind boggling to me. And not that that existed, 169 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: but that the amount of growth possible was still ahead 170 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: of us UM. So these theaters needed content. What was 171 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: your first moves? So the first thing we did was 172 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: um A. The gentleman I met there an American who 173 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: had been living in Asia for thirty years, a gentleman 174 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: named Robert Friedland who's been in disparate businesses UH mining 175 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: and resources. He was the original investor in serious satellite 176 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: radio believe it or not. UM He had some inkling 177 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: toward uh UM entertainment, but more he had the connections 178 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: within China and he introduced me to um several companies, 179 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: one called Poli which was a formerly a state owned 180 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: company that UMU had holdings in auction houses, had a 181 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: film technology and also distribution. At one point they had 182 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: been um UH Polly Bona was an entity that was 183 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: a um UM connection between Pauli the company I mentioned 184 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: in Bona, which um eventually spun off to be a 185 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: terrific distributor today in China. UM, but at this point 186 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: they had spun off. We made a deal with Poulli 187 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: to cooperate to develop projects together and that was the 188 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: first step into formalizing relationships in China. UM and that 189 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: would ended up while we did. While no films came 190 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,119 Speaker 1: out of it, a lot of understanding of the structure 191 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: and particularly in China became more clear to us. Who 192 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: were the people making the decisions, how was the government 193 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: truly supporting the ascension of the Chinese film market? Just 194 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: key and something we would have never been able to 195 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: uh take advantage of without this particular investor and now 196 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: my partner Robert Friedland helping UM. That was the first 197 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: uh we realized quickly, or I realized quickly that in 198 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: order to get to some momentum here, because we remember, 199 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: we didn't have a slate of films, we didn't have 200 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: a pipeline of films that would work in Asia, whether 201 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: it be in English that are we're telling Asian stories 202 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: or local language Mandarin films. So UM we decided to 203 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: do a deal with Fox International Productions, which at the 204 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: time was a terrific organization within Fox that Uh, we're 205 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: really early adopters of this idea of producing local content 206 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: for the indigenous markets, and we made a deal with them. 207 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: They we agreed to comb finance films in China, India, Japan, 208 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: Korea and Taiwan. For us, it was a transformative deal. 209 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, with as that deal came online, 210 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: we had access now to Foxes terrific production slate in 211 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: their development pipeline. We looked into countries that would interest us, 212 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: trying to for sure worked. Korea is a country that 213 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: we started with Fox there. I'm sorry. We we started 214 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: our work in Korea via our deal with Fox. UM 215 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: ended up having some terrific successes there with director Naha 216 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: Jin's film of the whaling or locally known as Guck 217 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: Sung Um and that helped us as a company establish 218 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: our own relationships on the ground. We UM duplicated that 219 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: effort in India. UM in China for sure again under 220 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: the auspices of our co financing co production deal with 221 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: Fox International Productions UM. So when Fox when f I 222 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: p UM took a detour and started to UM for 223 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: whatever the internal inclinations in Fox happened, we were there 224 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: to continue the efforts. And by this point we had 225 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: our own relationships. We could go directly to the distributors. Um, 226 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: we could go directly to the filmmakers. And that moment, 227 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: uh is when really my eyes opened. I said, wait 228 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: a second, we could do this on our own. We 229 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: could be a mini international local language studio as long 230 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: as we were willing to get on flights and deal 231 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: with translations and all of that extra step you need. Um. 232 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: And it's just been a wonderful business and intellectual and 233 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: social experience. But it's no small feat because companies bigger 234 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: than yours have sort of knocked on international door. Zen 235 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: felt discouraged. They've tried and failed. What were you doing 236 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: that was succeeding? You couldn't use the word precedent, so 237 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: if you thought in precedent, you were dead. So when 238 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: when we will go into a market. Even now we're 239 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: shooting in Mexico, we're in we're making a movie in 240 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: Indonesia as we speak. Many country total are un so 241 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: we're in seven Um, not shooting at any one time, 242 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: but there's a seven countries that at least now we 243 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: have resources and material that we own that's going to 244 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: grow in two thousand nineteen, we're going to expand in 245 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: Latin America, which we see is fertile for us UM. 246 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: But this is the idea that you can't walk into 247 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: a new market, especially ones who you for sure have 248 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: their own filmmaking apparatus. What do we offer? And one 249 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: things we offer a flexibility. So not only do we finance, 250 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: and not only do we bring our Western system of 251 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: development and production and post production, but we have to 252 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: bring flexibility and dailmaking. And the companies you're referencing or 253 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: your you may be alluding to are usually older companies 254 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: who are built on precedent um who may not value 255 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: the small winds that we look very positively on because 256 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: we're doing this for the long run. Just can't move 257 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: quickly enough. There's the legal contractual challenges, there's the talent 258 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: relationship challenges. Um. We just and I know it sounds 259 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: um um um self serving, but we really go into 260 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: every negotiation like you want to do it differently. Here great, 261 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: we know we know the bottom line of what we 262 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: need to be covered, but we don't really get held 263 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: up by any institutional drag on our side to stop 264 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: the problem the reduction train. So here you are, you know, 265 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: making significant headway and all sorts of countries. And yet 266 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: eighteen came around and it turned out instead of uh, 267 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: these you know, local films in the local language that 268 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: you were specializing in, Crazy Rich Asians, a movie for 269 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: the American market primarily blows up and explodes. How did 270 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: you get there, especially considering that really wasn't the focus, 271 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: not at all. Although early in two thousand fourteen or 272 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: the end of two thousand thirteen, as we were formalizing 273 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: I don't know Pictures, which eventually has been morphed into 274 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: sk Global, we could talk about that, uh and a 275 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: bit um. We didn't have any content. So we found 276 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: ourselves as a fully financed company working out of New 277 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: York at that time, building the relationships I mentioned through 278 00:18:55,560 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: our Foxdale and just leg work, and we hadn't yet 279 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: really understood or we hadn't yet gotten to the place 280 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: where we could make decisions for a local market that 281 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: requires being there, requires quite frankly, we may never truly 282 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: understand what a Thaie audience would want. Um, So we 283 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: need our Thai partners to help us with that. When 284 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: Crazy which Asian's came along, there was a comfort zone 285 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: and for us, and I guess I guess we didn't 286 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,239 Speaker 1: realize that at the time. But for us, we had 287 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: already been a tuned and I personally had been a 288 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: tuned to um being in Asia, being in Singapore at 289 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: that point, I was spending six months a year there, 290 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: uh in and around Greater Asia. UM. So when when 291 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: I found this book, it just seemed familiar to me, 292 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: and it was just the opposite of what one would say. 293 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: It was like, Ah, that's that's something that happens in Asia. 294 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 1: To me, it just it eelt like more of the 295 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: decisions I was making at Greenstreet Films, where wow, this 296 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: is a personal story, this is a personal journey, but 297 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: look there's a context for it on a more broad scope, 298 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: and for us, it fits in this general mandate we 299 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: were that we were looking towards Asia. It was as 300 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: simple as that. And I think the second thing is 301 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: there wasn't financial competition for it at that point, so 302 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: it it didn't fit in as a studio film, just 303 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: as at in the Galley form, or as as Kevin Qualms, 304 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: the author of Pravor Crazy Rich Asians book now has become. 305 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: At that point, it was just a good story that 306 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: happened to be focused in Asia. UM, So I don't 307 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: know that we really thought that hard about it. We 308 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: just said, well, we need stuff that works toward Asian 309 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: By the way, this is a film probably needs we 310 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: could offer something because it still needs a Western point 311 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: of view to build it. We were super, super lucky 312 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: to read it get excited about it. Just as Kevin 313 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: Kwan was meeting Hollywood producers, Um, he had agreed to 314 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: work with Nina Jacobson and Brad Simpson from Color Force 315 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: and who Um, really this is their sweet spot, taking adaptation, 316 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: taking books and leading them through their adaptation. They did 317 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: it well on Hunger Games and Diary of a Wimpy 318 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: Kid and now many other projects. So for me, we 319 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: just got lucky. You know. I expressed interest in financing 320 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 1: the film, um the Kevin's agent at the time. So 321 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: that's great. We have two uber producers here who want 322 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: to get guide the development. And it kind of was 323 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: one of the simplest tales I've ever made, because nobody 324 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: was even looking at it, at least from the world 325 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: I live in. We're we're not a Hollywood company. We're 326 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: in at this point, we're operating on and West Broadway 327 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: and Soho in New York City. So for us, we 328 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: just saw some material clearly great producers who are already attached, 329 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: and we and it fell under this kind of broad 330 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: construct of well, I haven't Hope Pictures is doing is 331 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: looking to do work in Asia. They'll be fine with it. 332 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: And it was nothing more magical than that. Well, you 333 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: mentioned Ivan Hope Pictures sk Global, I think you need 334 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: to sort of walk through the holy trinity of John 335 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: Panatti's film brands. It's it's complicated. It's complicated. That's exactly 336 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: what it is. Um So, I mentioned Green Street Films. 337 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: That's a film company that I ran out of New 338 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: York City with Fisher Stevens for several years. We started 339 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: in and in fact our backer at the time was 340 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: a gentleman named Sidney Kimmel. Um We in the early 341 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: two thousand's, Fisher and I continued running Green Street, but 342 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: at this point a new financier had come in Sydney 343 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: was moving his operation to l A. He was leaving 344 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: his day job as the chairman of UH Jones New 345 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: York and Jones Apparel, a big fashioned brand that he built. 346 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: Um So, he went on to start Sydney Kimmel Entertainment 347 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: in l A. We stuck in New York building Green 348 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: Street Films up cut to two thousand and thirteen. UM 349 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: I made a deal with Robert Friedland sold the Green 350 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: Street Films asset. At this point we had about thirty 351 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: films in the library. UM we sold Robert the Robert Friedlin, 352 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: who again is lived in Asia. We sold in the 353 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: company under the condition that together we started a company 354 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: called Ivanhope Pictures that was decidedly Asia facing for all 355 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: the reasons we talked about. Robert was intent on us 356 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: looking east and I agree to that. So that actually 357 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: started Ivan Picked years so I have no pictures. Ran 358 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: for three or four years. I eventually moved to Los Angeles. 359 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: UM I hooked back up with my dear friend Sidney Kimmel. 360 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: He asked me to come on and oversee Sydney Kimmel Entertainment, 361 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: which I did. For a period of time. I was 362 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: running both companies UH and kind of made sense because 363 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: there were two different time zones and as long as 364 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: I was willing to work around the clock, it worked. Eventually, 365 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: Robert and Sydney got to know each other. I suggest 366 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: that we should merge the company's we did. Uh. The 367 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: resulting company of ivan Hope Pictures in Sydney Kimmel Entertainment 368 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: is a company called sk Global that is the parent company. Uh, 369 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: we remain. We we kept the Ivanhoe Pictures label in 370 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: the Sydney Kimmel Entertainment label alive. And depending on what 371 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: content we're shooting, if it's a local language picture in Indonesia, 372 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: more likely that's going to be under the ivan Oe 373 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: Pictures And if it's something like Greta, the Neil Jordan's 374 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: film that's coming out this year, or Hell or high 375 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: Water or other more traditional Sydney Kumulo and entertainment films, 376 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,719 Speaker 1: they fall under that banner. Well, so on the Sydney 377 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: Kimmel side, would that be Greta is one production that's 378 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: coming out soon. You also have a show coming to Netflix, 379 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: Deli Crime, that that would come from Ivanhoe Ivanhoe and 380 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: it's going to be on Netflix India but also available 381 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: to all Netflix worldwide. Yeah. So that to direct um 382 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: outgrowth of our comfort zone and working in local language, 383 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: Richie Meta wrote and directed eight episodes of a true 384 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: crime story called Deli Crime. We partnered with Golden Caravan 385 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: who is a Moon Bay, an l A based production 386 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: finance company run by a great group of executives. We 387 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: uh we all agree to just jump in and finance 388 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: and produce those eight episodes. We were fortunate enough to 389 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: bring him to Sundance a few weeks ago where we 390 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: made a deal with Netflix. Netflix Now we'll put all 391 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: eight completed episodes on the service on March of this year, 392 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: and they've also agreed to a second season that will 393 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: be released in two thousand twenty. So it's sort of 394 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: an interesting new phase for you. And first of all, 395 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: you're branching out into television and not just film, but 396 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: also you're dealing now with a different group of buyers 397 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: and Netflix and the others. What is that like for you? 398 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: It's a great outgrowth of why I believe I Haven't 399 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: Know Pictures was wealth positioned to start in two thousand 400 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,479 Speaker 1: thirteen because at this point now there was a model 401 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: uh coming becoming clear again at least on the Ivan 402 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: Olk pictures side, where if we could find good local content, 403 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: maybe now there was a global opportunity. So when we 404 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: go into any of the countries we work in, we 405 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: are absolutely understanding the local market, know that the vast, 406 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: vast majority of our revenues will be made in that 407 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: um um that particular country. However, we're just internationalized and 408 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: how we see the world and how we see content. 409 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: So one of our opportunities and advantages in the local 410 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: market is convincing directors that we are actually looking outwards 411 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,239 Speaker 1: for their their content, will take it to can as 412 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: we did with the Whaling, or will help have it 413 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: distributed in Western Europe, which we have on several of 414 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: our local language films that happened to dovetail perfectly with 415 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: these streamers appetite to own worldwide rights and take that 416 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: um um what would once seem like a a very 417 00:27:54,359 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: indigenous title in Thailand and now find an audience elsewhere. Uh. 418 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: Thankfully it fits how we think about content, how we 419 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: the local to global aspect of content making drives us 420 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: as filmmakers, and now we have an access point for that. 421 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: So in some ways, the Deli Crime the television show, 422 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: really has its roots in um our hope that interesting 423 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: stories told as locally as possible could have a global 424 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: um um context, and Deli Crime clearly demonstrates that, and 425 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of drives us and if and 426 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: right there. That's a business model where we could say, 427 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: you know what, if we could continue to grow revenues 428 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: outside of the local market and thoughtfully develop the right 429 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: content that could make that move. We feel good about that, 430 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: and I think you're going to see more and more 431 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: um um examples of that, for sure from us, but 432 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: I also think from other investors and filmmakers who who 433 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: who see the world um outside of just the nationalistic boundaries. 434 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: Maybe a lesson for even beyond the film industry, I'm sure. 435 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: But one last question one that kind of brings it 436 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: full circle to something you said earlier about having the 437 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: kind of business that's not dependent on external forces. But 438 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: in this land of Netflix, Amazon and other big giants 439 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: that are presumably bigger than anything you've dealt with in 440 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: your career, are you not still somewhat dependent on external forces? Um? 441 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: So we try to in the local markets. We try 442 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: to um measure our risks very very rarely, and there 443 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: are exceptions like Deli Crime, but very rarely will we 444 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: do a local film without a local distribution partner to 445 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: start with. So because you do, we we can't possibly 446 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: understand all the machinations of an audiences um appetite in 447 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: each of these countries. We very much rely on our 448 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: local partner and our local distribution partner to help us 449 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: with that. Um as what you said is very important. 450 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: You will never just is just not the business. If 451 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: you want full coverage and you're not willing to take risk, 452 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: you should not be in this business. It's just not 453 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: it's not a tune to that we're we are um 454 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: um constitutionally um um okay, with a certain amount of risk. 455 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: So and we just hope we stay slightly ahead of 456 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: the market and slightly ahead of buyers to know we 457 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: could deliver something to them what it will look like 458 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: three years from now. You're absolutely right, and maybe a 459 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: wholly different context. You know, we may be um making 460 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: content for streaming or platforms that we don't even we 461 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: can't even understand yet that have some kind of toelco 462 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: um opportunity. Yeah, just it's just unclear. But really, what's 463 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: I think has been fun and has helped us is 464 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: we try to say a little bit ahead of this 465 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: by being on the ground because we think the growth 466 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: is in these international markets for us that at least 467 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: it is and as long as we're there, you know, 468 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: we're now doing a lot of work in Vietnam, so 469 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: but it's two years in the making. We haven't even 470 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: come close to our first film. But that's okay. It 471 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: took us three years to agree to do something in 472 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: Indonesia and now our first film is starting March five. 473 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: So we're patient in that regard, and I think we 474 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: have to be because while the world moves very fast, 475 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: it still takes time to get to the place where 476 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: you're comfortable. You're comfortable with the risk profile. I wonder 477 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: whether you are due for something that could be like 478 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: the reverse of a crazy rich Asians, where instead of 479 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: taking say, what might be viewed as a primarily Asian 480 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: story and selling it to an American audience, you take 481 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: a say, with Daily Crime, a native Indian story that 482 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: actually sort of plays well and the rest of the world. 483 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: And I think there's that increased appetite material. I one 484 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: think that's happening. I think you have you know, often 485 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: referenced um UM examples like Narcos, which Netflix did a 486 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: wonderful job of internationalizing UM. So it's happening already. I 487 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: think you're God willing, We're going to do it enough 488 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: so that uh, one of our productions it just hits 489 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: that sweet spot with with getting audiences minds open to 490 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: an experience that they wouldn't normally never get, and I'd 491 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: like to do that quite funking. On the theatrical side, 492 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, I love streaming, It's a big part of 493 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: our business, but at the core, I still love going 494 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: to a theater. So I'm hoping we could find a 495 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: context for a film that does does do exactly what 496 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: you're saying, does catch people who catch Western audiences imagination 497 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: for a story that um might have originate in Asia, 498 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: for instance. That's a dream, John. I wish you luck 499 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: in your pursuit of that success. We'll be watching. Thank you, Andrew, 500 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. This has been another episode of 501 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: Strictly Business. Tune in next week for another helping of 502 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers, and please make 503 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. 504 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: Also leave a review in Apple podcast let us know 505 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: how we're doing.