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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Donald Trump has been booted off

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Billionaire's list. We have such a great show for

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Speaker 1: you today. The Washington Post Caroline Kitchener tells us about

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Speaker 1: the disinformation around women's reproductive health. Then we'll talk to

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Speaker 1: Maracoba County, Arizona reporter and Republican Stephen Richer about his

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Speaker 1: defamation suit with not Arizona Governor Carrie Lake. But first

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Speaker 1: we have the New Republics Greg Sergeant. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics. New Republics, Greg Sergeant.

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Speaker 2: Great to be here, as always, Molly, such.

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Speaker 1: A weird time in American life. Right now? Should we

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Speaker 1: start by talking about the Republicans in the House. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean yesterday what they kept failing at rules vote.

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Speaker 1: What happened here is that Kevin McCarthy put Maga on

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Speaker 1: the rules and turns out that Maga is not so

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Speaker 1: good on the rules committee.

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Speaker 2: Huh, Yeah, they're really not. Here's what I keep wondering though,

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Speaker 2: And tell me if you agree with me. I don't

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Speaker 2: find a lot of takers for this right and I

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Speaker 2: get trolled whenever.

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Speaker 1: I say it even better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, It seems to me that Mike Johnson wants

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Speaker 2: to hold a vote on the Ukraine eight.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think so you do.

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Speaker 2: Okay, great, I'm not entirely alone on this then, Okay,

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Speaker 2: a number of things right. One, there are significant powerful

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Speaker 2: Republicans in the House who want it, like these committee

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Speaker 2: chairs Mike Turner, people like that, right, And these are

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Speaker 2: major players. They're not maga noisemakers. So we don't talk

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Speaker 2: about them ever. We only talk about Marjorie Taylor Green

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Speaker 2: and Matt Gates. And I don't know why that's the

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Speaker 2: only thing we'd ever talk about. But so, like these

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Speaker 2: committee chairs want this vote, Mike Johnson is talking to

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Speaker 2: world leaders seemingly pretty regularly, and they're telling him all

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Speaker 2: all of them are telling the same story, which is

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Speaker 2: that if we don't do this, we're in much more

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Speaker 2: trouble later. Right, Mike Johnson has a bit of a

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Speaker 2: Reagan night past as opposed to a mega kind of

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Speaker 2: the inclination. Seems to me he is a Christian nationalist

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Speaker 2: and he's willing to endorse great replacement theory. But like

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Speaker 2: on national security and foreign policy, he's much more in

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Speaker 2: the Reagan nite mold. And then right, he's got the

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Speaker 2: good intelligence too, so he's got the top intel people

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Speaker 2: telling him what the real deal is there, and you

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Speaker 2: got to think the stuff weighs on him. And it

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Speaker 2: looks to me like it is.

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Speaker 1: It's reauthorizing a rule that allows the American government to

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Speaker 1: wiretap calls of non citizens without a warrant, basically, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's what it is. And this was a

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Speaker 1: Republican idea, right as part of the Patriot Act, or

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Speaker 1: at least it came about during that period when America

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Speaker 1: wanted to have more of a you know, in arsenal

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Speaker 1: when it comes to prosecute and collecting information on our

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Speaker 1: foreign adversary. So it's a republican idea like the idea

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Speaker 1: that Mike Johnson is for. This would make more sense.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just recently that MAGA has decided that

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Speaker 1: they don't, you know whatever, they're not so interested in

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Speaker 1: foreign intervention maybe though who even knows what they really

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Speaker 1: believe in. But what I think is interesting is like

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Speaker 1: when Johnson, he was remembering, he was like a low

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Speaker 1: ranking Republican, but once he was sort of given the information,

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Speaker 1: and once he went into leadership, he sort of understood

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Speaker 1: why it was so important.

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Speaker 2: Right. I want to pick up on something you said there,

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Speaker 2: which is whether they're really opposed to foreign intervention, because

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's an important subject. You've probably noticed that,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of news accounts call mega isolations, they

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Speaker 2: called Trump isolationist, right, and I just I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's what they are.

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Speaker 1: No. I just don't take them at their word for anything.

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Speaker 1: I just want to fact check for one second. It's

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Speaker 1: called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and it's not part

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Speaker 1: of the Patriot Act. I was wrong. It was enacted

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Speaker 1: in the year of my birth, nineteen seventy eight, and

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Speaker 1: the legislation was a congressional response to exposure during multiple

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Speaker 1: committee hearings of previous abuses of US persons privacy rights. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so it actually is not part of the Patriot Act.

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Speaker 1: I was wrong, continues right.

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Speaker 2: No, No, absolutely right. We shouldn't take them at their word.

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Speaker 2: I think what's going on. I actually did a podcast

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Speaker 2: with Julia Yaffi about this, and she was just so

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Speaker 2: eloquent about it. They support the idea of Putin style government, right,

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Speaker 2: They oppose Ukrainian democracy. They want Putin to win. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't attribute that sentiment to all of them, right, I

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Speaker 2: think it's complicated, and it's a little shifty and it's

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Speaker 2: a little murky, but right, someone like Marjorie Taylor Green

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Speaker 2: I think has a genuine ideological affinity with Putin style governance,

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Speaker 2: White Christian nationalist strong man rule, all about crushing the woke,

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Speaker 2: the secular liberals, right, all about kind of crushing Western

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Speaker 2: liberal democracy wherever possible they want. They see a Putin

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Speaker 2: victory as a victory for their kind of access of autocracy.

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Speaker 2: That it really dovetails very directly with their sense of

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Speaker 2: what they'd like to do here domestically. Right, So Trump

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Speaker 2: admires Putin. We all know that. What's funny to me, though,

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Speaker 2: is like Trump isn't exactly where Marjorie Taylor Green is

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Speaker 2: on Putin or JD. Vans, who's also in the Marjorie

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Speaker 2: Taylor Green camp. I think for Trump, what he admires

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Speaker 2: is the strongman dictator part of Putin. He probably doesn't

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Speaker 2: care so much about the crushing of the LGBTQ and

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Speaker 2: woke and all that, Whereas Marjorie Taylor Green and Jade

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Speaker 2: Events probably wants something like theocratic rule here and see

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Speaker 2: strongman rule as the way to get it. Trump doesn't

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Speaker 2: really care about that. But they kind of are in

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Speaker 2: alliance on this, right, they're all kind of weirdly vaguely

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Speaker 2: pro putin. And that's not isolationism, it's side with an

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Speaker 2: access of autocrats out there.

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Speaker 1: Well, Juliaffi had this incredible scoop right where Michael McCall,

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Speaker 1: you know, high ranking chair in Congress Republican. He comes

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Speaker 1: out and says, Republicans are absolutely repeating Russian propaganda. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is wild.

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Speaker 2: It absolutely is. It's absolutely crazy. And what he means,

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Speaker 2: I think, is he means to rebut this idea that

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Speaker 2: there are kind of these isolationists who just simply don't

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Speaker 2: want to spend our blood and treasure abroad, right, which

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Speaker 2: makes it sound so tame and so admirable. Right, they're

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Speaker 2: just isolationists. They're anti war, they're not right, they're not Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, that's what he means. He's

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Speaker 2: essentially saying what Julia Yaffi said on the podcast and

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Speaker 2: what we're saying now, which is that in some very

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Speaker 2: basic sense, a sizable swath of the Republican Conference is

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Speaker 2: at best and indifferent to the fate of Ukraine and

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Speaker 2: just fine with Putin crushing the Ukraine out of existence,

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Speaker 2: and at worst tacitly or maybe even overtly wants Putin

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Speaker 2: to win.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But I think what's interesting to me is here

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Speaker 1: we are. Republicans have the House, they have a one

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Speaker 1: bowl majority. They have a speaker who was number five

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Speaker 1: in leadership. She came into this job and he's getting crushed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a really hard job. I Mean one

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Speaker 1: of the things I think is, like when you think

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Speaker 1: about people didn't like Nancy Pelosi, they had complaints about

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Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, whatever, whatever, But like you really see, after

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Speaker 1: we had Nancy Pelosi and then Republicans won the House,

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Speaker 1: we had Kevin McCarthy and now we have Mike Johnson,

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Speaker 1: and both of them show it's actually a pretty hard job.

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Speaker 2: It really is. And Nancy Pelosi is really good at

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Speaker 2: the job too. I mean I always come back to this,

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Speaker 2: but she essentially presided over two impeachments of Trump, right,

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Speaker 2: which has never happened. Yeah, And I think if I'm right,

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Speaker 2: she lost a grand total of three votes among Democrats

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Speaker 2: on two impeachments. That's some pretty impressive party unity right there.

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Speaker 2: And right, like on social people always black Pelosi as

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Speaker 2: neoliberal or democratic establishment. She focuses too much on kitchen

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Speaker 2: table issues. But like, winning House seats in some of

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Speaker 2: these swing districts is hard, right, Yeah, And under her,

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Speaker 2: they took the House in two thousand and six and

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Speaker 2: again in twenty eighteen. Now they lost it, but by

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Speaker 2: a far smaller margin than we expected. I think Mike

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Speaker 2: Johnson maywell just kind of lose the House in his

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Speaker 2: first crack at this if he's even there at the

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Speaker 2: end of this year.

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Speaker 1: Right, I mean, he could lose the House before the

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Speaker 1: actual election, which is not you know, it's unlikely, but

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Speaker 1: not impossible.

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Speaker 2: It's basically gone, right. I think one interesting way to

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Speaker 2: think about this is that they don't really have a

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Speaker 2: garning majority, right yeah, So what is the Martian now too?

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Speaker 1: One?

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Speaker 2: It's down to one, right, it's down to one now,

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Speaker 2: And so right there just simply is not a group

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Speaker 2: of Republicans who are united in any sense and who

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Speaker 2: also constitute a majority of the House.

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Speaker 1: Now and one of the things like I'm struck by

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Speaker 1: when we talk about Nancy Pelosi is you know, she

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Speaker 1: knew that the House is about getting re elected. So

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Speaker 1: if you were a Democrat in a swing state, in

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Speaker 1: a swingy district, she would really make sure that you

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Speaker 1: didn't have to vote against your interests, right, you didn't

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Speaker 1: have to do something that would mess you up. In

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Speaker 1: two years now we have these Republicans, these House Republicans

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Speaker 1: in New York, Mike Lawler, Nick Lloda, and in California

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Speaker 1: who are in Biden districts desperately trying to hold onto

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Speaker 1: their seats. As someone like Mike Lawler has had to

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Speaker 1: vote and Nick Kloda too, voted for two impeachments, one

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Speaker 1: the first impeachment of a member of the in one

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty years, right.

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Speaker 2: And they didn't want to vote for that. They really

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Speaker 2: didn't know.

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Speaker 1: This week we saw Mike Lawler on CNN talking to

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Speaker 1: Kayln Collins and she said, well did you vote? She said,

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Speaker 1: who'd you vote for in the primary? And he said,

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Speaker 1: I voted for Trump? Right, So you have a party

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Speaker 1: nominee who, by voting for him, you can no longer

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Speaker 1: make the case that you are a moderate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's not allowed right in this party.

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Speaker 2: It really goes back to the basic theory of politics

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Speaker 2: that Mega and Trump follow, right, which is that you

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Speaker 2: can win only with mega, Right. When it really comes

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Speaker 2: down to that, that's what they actually believe. Right. And

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Speaker 2: so even though we have had a test of this

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Speaker 2: in two national elections, right in twenty twenty and twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two, they actually did surprisingly well in the House

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, right, we all know that story. But

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Speaker 2: then in twenty twenty two, they dramatically underperform and a

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Speaker 2: bunch of the Mega candidates for statewide office squandered a

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Speaker 2: whole swath of winnable races. These were really winnable races, right,

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Speaker 2: Like we kind of forget that. But like Arizona Senate,

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Speaker 2: Arizona Governor Blake Masters. Yeah, I mean, like everyone made

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Speaker 2: fun of Blake Masters, but like he looked to me

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Speaker 2: like a pretty good candidate in a lot of ways, right,

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Speaker 2: But he really ran on this insane maga message about immigration.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw any of his ads.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, talk about it, talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one one of his ads literally has machine

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Speaker 2: gun fire at the border. It looked like a video game, right,

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Speaker 2: call of duty or something. Yeah, Right, like there's this

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Speaker 2: sort of weird maga space where all this stuff is

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Speaker 2: real to them. Right, the border is a combat video game, right,

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Speaker 2: or you know, there was a I think his opening

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Speaker 2: introductory ad, like a two minute spot had him kind

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Speaker 2: of running through the desert in some way, like he

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Speaker 2: was kind of patrolling it. So they made immigration absolutely

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Speaker 2: central to his campaign in a border state in Arizona,

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Speaker 2: which is the state where some of the most ridiculously

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Speaker 2: hardline anti immigrant policy has been hatched.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Trump went to Arizona in twenty sixteen to deliver his

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Speaker 2: big introductory speech round immigration. It's got a whole history, right,

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Speaker 2: and they couldn't win. He lost by what five points? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so that it doesn't tell you that you can't

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Speaker 2: win with just maga. I don't know what does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. What I'm struck by is this maga like they

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Speaker 1: can't scale. You know, they win these primers, but then

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Speaker 1: they can't win the generals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, the funny thing about some of

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Speaker 2: these mega can that it says they actually they lack

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Speaker 2: what Trump has, right, And this is a dynamic. I

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Speaker 2: feel like I don't understand well enough. Maybe you can

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Speaker 2: help me on this, right, So there's nobody, presumably who's

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Speaker 2: more magan than Trump. He's Trump, right, He's very maga, right,

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Speaker 2: but he does really, really pretty well in Pennsylvania, whereas

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Speaker 2: Doug Mastriano does terribly and gets blown out right, And

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Speaker 2: so what's the difference there. I think it's that on

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Speaker 2: some level, Trump has this kind of charisma and he

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Speaker 2: has this capacity to communicate to voters that it's all

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Speaker 2: kind of a joke, right when he dabbles in Christian nationalism,

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Speaker 2: it's all sort of a little bit of a joke.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Trump, he's not a Christian, right look at him.

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Speaker 2: And whereas Doug Mastriano looks like a crazy extremist. So

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Speaker 2: in a weird way, these guys are more maga than

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Speaker 2: Trump without the positives, right, without the charisma, without the

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Speaker 2: kind of wink wink, nudge nudge sense that it's all

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Speaker 2: a big show. And that's just a weird dynamic to me.

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Speaker 1: So what I think it is is two things. One

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why Trump won in twenty sixteen, which

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Speaker 1: we don't talk about, but is I think really important,

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Speaker 1: or is at least very relevant, right, is that Trump

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Speaker 1: won because he made a case that you didn't really

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Speaker 1: know what he believed in. He had no voting record,

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Speaker 1: he had been a Democrat. One of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: we see all of these sort of last gasp attempts

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Speaker 1: at trying desperately at Republicans trying desperately to pass all

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Speaker 1: this weird religious stuff is because they sort of know

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Speaker 1: right that their demographic is dead right, like that America

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Speaker 1: is not a white Christian nation anymore, and you know,

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Speaker 1: people aren't going to church the same way. There is

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Speaker 1: much more, you know, diversity, it's not you know, they're worried.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the last gasp against a multi

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Speaker 1: racial democracy. So what I think worked for Trump was

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Speaker 1: he was very famous. A lot of people knew who

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Speaker 1: he was, but nobody really knew what he was going

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Speaker 1: to do. It was sort of a normalcy bias. He

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Speaker 1: can't possibly be that crazy. He's saying all this crazy stuff,

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Speaker 1: but you know, he's a rich guy, so he's not

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Speaker 1: going to do anything crazy. And he obviously he knows

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Speaker 1: about the economy, and he's had all these wives, so

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Speaker 1: he's you know, and who even knows, you know, he

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Speaker 1: had this mistress, you know, so obviously he's not going

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Speaker 1: to do all this crazy stuff. So there were people

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Speaker 1: who held their nose and voted for him because they

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Speaker 1: were like, we want the tax cuts, and besides, it's

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Speaker 1: more business as usual. And I think after twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: you could never make that case again.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting. We had Sarah Longwell on the podcast too,

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Speaker 2: and folks check out our podcast, man, it's called The

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Speaker 2: Daily Blast that's in the New Republic, and she said,

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Speaker 2: he still codes as moderate on abortion and on a

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Speaker 2: bunch of the stuff. And here's the supreme irony of

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Speaker 2: it that really kind of confirms what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: He codes as moderate because he's a sleazy, nasty, philandering,

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Speaker 2: you know, amoral piece of you know what, right, right,

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Speaker 2: That's why he codes moderate. People think, oh, he probably

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Speaker 2: paid for ten abortions himself, so he can't possibly be

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Speaker 2: anti abortion.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, he's saying to evangelical voters, boasting of creating the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court that overturned a fifty year right.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I think he thinks that those evangelical

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Speaker 1: voters won't abandon him, and so now he's trying to

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Speaker 1: pivot to the center. You know, that abortion answer was

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Speaker 1: him trying to pivot to the center.

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Speaker 2: So good and really like for Arizona Republicans to kill

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Speaker 2: an effort to repeal the eighteen sixty four law. I mean,

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Speaker 2: by the way, right, there was so much predulous puntry

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Speaker 2: and journalism saying that Trump has managed to you know,

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Speaker 2: pick the law pieces again right when you're staying Rix,

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Speaker 2: when he put out that video saying I forget exactly

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Speaker 2: the phrase, but right the video essentially said he believed

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Speaker 2: it should be left to the states and all that

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Speaker 2: like a lot of I think everybody pounced on the

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Speaker 2: New York Times for taking that at face value. And

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Speaker 2: now immediately after that, right immediately after journalists and pundits

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Speaker 2: said Trump has shown that there's a moderate position, what

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Speaker 2: actually got confirmed is that Trump is going to have

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Speaker 2: to answer for every extremist lurch that happens in the States.

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Speaker 1: Now, now, Greg, thank you so much, really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: always fun.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Mollie Spring is here and I bet you are trying

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Speaker 1: to look fashionable. So why not pick up some fashionable

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Speaker 1: all new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news

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Speaker 1: store with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

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00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:52,160
Speaker 1: and top bags to grab some head to Fastpolitics dot com.

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Speaker 1: Caroline Kitchener is a national reporter covering abortion at the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post. Welcome to Fast Power Politics, Caroline.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Molly, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: You write about abortion for the Washington Post. I think

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Speaker 1: of you as like the go to, quietly doing the

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Speaker 1: reporting that the rest of us need to understand what

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Speaker 1: the landscape looks like and to base our little opinion

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Speaker 1: pieces on. Today, you have a new story which I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's like the marriage of the two biggest

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Speaker 1: crisises of right now right, which are disinformation and abortion.

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Speaker 1: So talk to us about that story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, those are the story that I've wanted to do

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Speaker 3: for over a year. I just kept talking to women

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Speaker 3: in states with abortion bands. They were ordering pills online

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Speaker 3: or kind of getting them in other ways, figuring out

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Speaker 3: however they could ways to navigate around the bands, but

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Speaker 3: they were having really difficult experiences just you know, not

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Speaker 3: obviously we know that abortion pills are safe, but it

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Speaker 3: can be scary when you're alone, you're in a state

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Speaker 3: where it's illegal, you feel like you're breaking the law.

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Speaker 3: Even though I think it's important to say, you know,

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Speaker 3: under these bands, the women taking the pills themselves can't

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Speaker 3: be prosecuted. They don't know what to expect, and they

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Speaker 3: don't know who to call. That, I would say was

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Speaker 3: the thing that I heard from every single person that

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Speaker 3: I talked to, just I didn't know who to call.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know who to talk to, because you know,

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Speaker 3: they were afraid that if they tried to reach out

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Speaker 3: to a doctor or you know, even went to the

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Speaker 3: er just to make sure that everything was okay, that

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Speaker 3: they would be arrested.

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Speaker 1: Right. What I think is interesting about the story is

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Speaker 1: there is a real concerted effort on the right from

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Speaker 1: these anti choice groups to undermine the information that these

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Speaker 1: women are getting. So absolutely explained to us what that

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Speaker 1: looks like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I spoke with a lot of people

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Speaker 3: that described frantically googling trying to figure out what was

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Speaker 3: safe and what was okay, because you know, they would

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Speaker 3: often run into, you know, anti abortion information that would

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Speaker 3: say that the pills were highly dangerous or even deadly,

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Speaker 3: and that you know, obviously understandably is extremely scary. You know,

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Speaker 3: we know that those are false claims, but they're very widespread,

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Speaker 3: and some of these women too, in these states with

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Speaker 3: bands now the only place you know, many of them said,

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to go and talk to somebody in person,

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Speaker 3: Like I just wanted to like, you know, before I

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Speaker 3: took these pills, I just wanted to talk to somebody.

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Speaker 3: And often the only place to go in these states

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Speaker 3: now is crisis pregnancy centers, which are you know, anti

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Speaker 3: abortion centers that really are designed to dissuade women from

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Speaker 3: having abortions. You know, in the first place, let's.

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Speaker 1: Do two seconds on what a crisis pregnancy center is.

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Speaker 1: Because they're often funded by relig groups, right, they tend.

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Speaker 3: They very often are have some sort of religious affiliation.

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Speaker 1: They advertise themselves though, as a place to get a

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Speaker 1: pregnancy test and talk about your options. So talk about

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Speaker 1: sort of how they advertise themselves versus what they are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that it's sort of hard

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Speaker 3: to paint them all with a broad brush because oftentimes

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Speaker 3: there are sort of these much more institutionalized ones, but

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Speaker 3: then there's also sort of lots of kind of mom

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Speaker 3: and pops, smaller ministry kind of things.

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Speaker 1: Right, yet another thing the federal government does not regulate.

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Speaker 3: Right, many of these ones that are more i would say,

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Speaker 3: more sophisticated and more sort of professionalized, they have recognized

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Speaker 3: that the sort of message of free ultrasounds, free pregnancy

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Speaker 3: tests is very appealing to people, so they'll often put

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Speaker 3: that on a big sign. They definitely do a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Google Search algorithm. Exactly what Carolyn's talking about is this

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Speaker 1: idea that they do a Google SEO, so they come

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Speaker 1: up in these searches in the Google search.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can explain that a little bit. So oftentimes

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Speaker 3: these places like work with you know, somebody that can

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Speaker 3: manipulate search and make sure that for example, if somebody

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Speaker 3: in Texas types in, you know, need abortion Texas now

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Speaker 3: something like that, then you know, the first thing that

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Speaker 3: would come up would be the Crisis Pregnancy Center with

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Speaker 3: you know, information about you know, get your abortion consultation.

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Speaker 3: That's typically a word that they use, or you know,

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Speaker 3: your free ultrasound or something like that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of what I know about this is from

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Speaker 1: Robin Marty ran an abortion clinic in the state of Alabama,

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Speaker 1: and she talked about how, you know, now she does

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Speaker 1: STIs treatment and you know that kind of thing, but

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Speaker 1: that these centers really just are trying to get you

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Speaker 1: to not have an abortion. Yeah, so what happens to

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Speaker 1: these women they want to take the pill, the abortion pill.

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Speaker 1: They get it, and then they can't get good information

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Speaker 1: about it, or or they can't get it.

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Speaker 3: The people that I talked to for the story, they

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Speaker 3: were able to get it. But the word that I

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Speaker 3: heard all the time was like, is this legit? Like

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Speaker 3: how do I know if this is legit?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Because if you're in a state with a band, you know,

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Speaker 3: you're you know that there's this law, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: even if you go online and you can find these

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Speaker 3: places that say that they're going to send it to you,

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Speaker 3: it feels a little sketchy, right, Like, even if we know,

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Speaker 3: we know that certain of these organizations they're very you know,

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Speaker 3: they are very legitimate, and they are doing this in

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Speaker 3: like really big numbers. But if you are that young

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Speaker 3: woman somewhere on your own googling around, you know, you

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Speaker 3: can see how it would feel scary.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm struck by as we

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Speaker 1: talk about this is this idea that these pills are

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Speaker 1: much safer than the right wants us to believe. And

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Speaker 1: they've been working really hard to work the rafts. Mattha

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Speaker 1: pristone has been available in this country since two thousand.

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Speaker 1: It was available in France since nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 3: Right, this is not new, it's you know, over two

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Speaker 3: decades now that this has been approved by the FDA,

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Speaker 3: And you know, there is just no question from any

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Speaker 3: leading medical association or any you know, major study that

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Speaker 3: these pills are extremely safe. And I think it's important

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Speaker 3: to say too that they are safe even when taken

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Speaker 3: somewhat independently. And there have been a lot of really

433
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: good recent studies that show that even if you're not

434
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 3: having a face to face with a doctor to get them,

435
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 3: they're still extremely safe. The safety numbers don't really change there.

436
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 3: So what these women are doing, you know, when they

437
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 3: order the pills online, it is safe, but they don't

438
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: necessarily know that or feel that.

439
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: One of the points in the article is that if

440
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: you are in a state where abortion is illegal, which

441
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: means which more than a third of all American women are,

442
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: if you take the pills, there's some anxiety about going

443
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: into a hospital. So talk to us about that.

444
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 3: One thing that studies have shown is that, you know,

445
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: the serious adverse events numbers are just tiny, tiny, tiny

446
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: for abortion pills. It's like less than one percent a

447
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 3: larger abortion, not a huge number, but typically between the

448
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 3: studies range from one point three percent to eight percent

449
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: of people that take abortion pills.

450
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 4: Go to the er.

451
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: And you know, that is a number. Those are numbers

452
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 3: that have been really co opted by the anti abortion

453
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 3: groups to say, look, look, how many people are going

454
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: to the er. But the really important context for those

455
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 3: visits is that women are often going for a gut.

456
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: Check because it's scary.

457
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 3: Like you're bleeding a lot, right, You're cramping a lot,

458
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 3: and it's really painful, and you don't know what's normal,

459
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 3: and so you want to go somewhere and just make

460
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 3: sure that everything is okay. I think that's like a

461
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: very sort of natural human instinct. But when you're in

462
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: a state with a ban, even though these laws are

463
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 3: not written to allow prosecutors to go after the women

464
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: that are taking the pills, that's the sort of a

465
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 3: very weird thing to understand, and it's a very that's

466
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 3: like really an intricacy of the law. And you know,

467
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: I'm only of all the women that I talked to

468
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 3: for this story, only one of them understood that under

469
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: the band sheep personally could not be prosecuted. Everybody just

470
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: assumes that they can be, and so they are terrified

471
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 3: to go to the er.

472
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: And Trump has said that he believes there should be

473
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: some form of prosecution for women who have abortion. I mean,

474
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: then he walked it back, but you know, I was

475
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: on with Chris Matthews and we were talking about that,

476
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: so I mean he did say it, so you understand

477
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: why this does not exist in a vacuum, right.

478
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 3: And I think it's also important to note that like

479
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 3: women who have taken pills and self managed their own abortions,

480
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: they have been charged under other laws in the past

481
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: other than abortion bands, like laws around disposed little feel

482
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 3: remains and things like that, especially when they're later in pregnancy.

483
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: So it's not like there's no legal risk at all.

484
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: Their right to worry obviously a very difficult situation to

485
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: be in well.

486
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: And I also think when you talk about abortion, this

487
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: issue really just collide with the with the misinformation and

488
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: disinformation ecosystem that we're living in right now. And it

489
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: is also like a personal thing, you know, it's not

490
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: like something you want a crowdsource on Facebook exactly.

491
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: It's such a good point.

492
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: And it's like just not that easy to bring it up.

493
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: One of the women that I talked about, like she said, man,

494
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 3: I just wish I had a group chat, Like I

495
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 3: just wish I could talk to people about this in

496
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 3: a group chat with friend, but I can't if nobody

497
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 3: can know.

498
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: One of the things in the article that you talk

499
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: about is that if you go to a hospital and

500
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: you've self managed an abortion, doctors cannot tell if you

501
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: are having a miscarriage or self managed abortion. Will you

502
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: talk about that?

503
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is something that all of the hotlines and

504
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: different abortion rights groups are telling women because that's not

505
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 3: I think something that isn't too to know. But you know,

506
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 3: if you present with the bleeding and cramping of a

507
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 3: medication abortion, unless you took the pills vaginally, which is

508
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: sort of a more rare way to take them, there

509
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: is no way for a doctor to know whether you

510
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 3: miscarried or whether you had a medication abortion. So folks

511
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: are telling women to say, you know, just say I

512
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: had a miscarriage, I just started bleeding, I don't really

513
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 3: know what's going on, and then not say anything else.

514
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: So this is not in the article, but since you

515
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: are really in it, I'm wondering if you could talk

516
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: about this Rise Louisiana Report. I'm sure you read it. Too.

517
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: I Mean, what's so interesting is women's health. You know,

518
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: we don't get so much research like men's health. Right.

519
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: Imagine if men had to take a pill it caused

520
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: bleeding and is sometimes painful, like, they would never.

521
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: You know, there would be a better way.

522
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: Right exactly, they'd be like, no, no, just come into

523
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: this ATM and we'll you know. So I'm wondering. Like

524
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: one of the things a Rise Louisiana report talked about

525
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: and a thing I've heard on totally from obgyns is

526
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: the incredible anxiety about treating in the first trimester from doctors.

527
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: Are you hearing that on the ground that there's just

528
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: like the doctors have really changed the way they treat

529
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: pregnant women in these stays. If you're seeing that or

530
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: you're hearing that, or maybe you're not, but I'm just curious.

531
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely, they're terrified. It just remains really unclear. I mean,

532
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: just look at the changing laws, like you know, we are,

533
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 3: you know, two years out from this Dobbs ruling almost

534
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 3: and things are not settled like we you know, we

535
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: have Arizona, we have Florida. We have these big new

536
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: laws taking effect and changing and the landscape is not settled,

537
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: and doctors feel that for sure. I mean, it was

538
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: a couple of months ago I did a story about

539
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 3: a woman in Texas who was turned away with an

540
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 3: ectopic pregnancy, which really, I mean, even as much as

541
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 3: I write about this and talk to people, that really

542
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: shocked me. Because a topic pregnancy.

543
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: Is not going to ever be a baby. You cannot

544
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: physically carry a baby in the fallopian tubes of your womb,

545
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: Like it cannot happen. So there's only one thing that happens,

546
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: which is you not.

547
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 3: Like that particular word. I feel like it's such a

548
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 3: has become such a buzzword after the decision, like people,

549
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: you know, that really was sort of the big thing

550
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 3: that people talked about, like people with ectopic pregnancies, and

551
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: and you saw the conservatives and the anti abortion folks

552
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: say like, oh no, at topics, that's totally fine, that's

553
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: totally fine. And I really thought that, you know, a

554
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: year and a half since the decision, we were in

555
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: a place where like topics would be treated kind of

556
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 3: no question, Like people just sort of understood that. And

557
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: a lot of doctors have said that to me, like

558
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 3: oh yeah, like the topics you know, of course, like,

559
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: we know, we know we can treat them, but then

560
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 3: you do hear these stories still of women getting turned away.

561
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: So it's just not settled yet. And I'm sure that

562
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: it also depends on what the feelings of the doctor

563
00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: are on this issue. Right.

564
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: It is so insane to me, like, there is no

565
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: baby in an atopic pregnancy, right, And I mean, what

566
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: happened to that woman in that case?

567
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 3: What the doctor said is that there is a chance

568
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 3: that this is not an atopic pregnancy, because it's not

569
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: always so easy so cut and dry to tell when

570
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 3: it is and when it isn't. But I mean hers

571
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 3: was I think fairly obvious. So she was turned away

572
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: from the hospital. Later that day, her best friend was

573
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: at an obiqui en appointment. She called her best friend

574
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: and her best friend was like, Hey, do you want

575
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: me to like show the doctor here the picture of

576
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 3: your pregnancy, and she did. The best friend did, and

577
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: the doctor was like, oh my god, can your friendly

578
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: come in right now? So she did, and that doctor

579
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 3: was like, I'm going to take you in for emergency

580
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: surgery right.

581
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, because you can die from this.

582
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 3: Right, And I just think that shows, like, I mean,

583
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 3: how scary is it though that it's just kind of

584
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: luck of the draw of who you get, who you see.

585
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: You know, I heard this story anecdotally, so I don't

586
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: want to pass it on because who knows. But you know,

587
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: friend of mine was telling me about a girl in

588
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: a red state where she was having a miscarriage, like

589
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: her numbers were going down, the pregnancy was not holding,

590
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: and the doctor didn't want to tell her because she

591
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: didn't want to perform a DNC, which is so insane, right,

592
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: Like the these aren't even babies. These are people where

593
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: they're not going to have a baby, and they can't

594
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: get the care they need. These unforeseen consequences of the

595
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: inability to legislate on the part of Republicans is shocking

596
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: to me. But it shouldn't be right, It shouldn't be

597
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: calin what are you watching right now?

598
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 3: I'm watching that Florida and Arizona. I mean Florida. I

599
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 3: think in particular, I don't know that people have fully

600
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: registered how many women live in Florida and how many

601
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: abortions appeased in Florida. Yeah, last year there were eighty

602
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: four thousand abortions in Florida. And if you look at

603
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 3: sort of the bands that are currently in effect. The

604
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 3: sort of largest state bans Texas, And before that took

605
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: a fact, fifty thousand happened in Texas.

606
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: Wait, what's the number in Florida.

607
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: In Florida, it's eighty four thousand.

608
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, and it's and historically it's always been a

609
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: safe haven for abortion in the South right.

610
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: It has because of the constitutional protections that they had

611
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: for so long. And I also think like that just

612
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: the geography geography of Florida makes it extremely difficult. Like

613
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 3: somebody that's coming from Key West to go to the

614
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 3: nearest clinic at there after six weeks, once this law

615
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: takes it back, they're going to have to drive fourteen hours.

616
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, Carolyn, thanks for having me on. Stephen Richer

617
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: is the Maracoba County, Arizona Recorder. Welcome Steven, too fast politics,

618
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: Tell us what you do.

619
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 4: I am the elected Maykope County Recorder. I ran in

620
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 4: twenty twenty in the Republican primary one that won the

621
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 4: general election in November.

622
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 5: I am statutorially responsible for early voting, voter registration and

623
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 5: document recording in Mericle County, which is the fourth largest

624
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 5: county in the United States, and second largest voting jurisdiction

625
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 5: in the United States and makes up about sixty two

626
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 5: percent of Arizona's voting population.

627
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: It's an elected job, but you are a Republican.

628
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 4: Yes, elected job, and I'm a Republican. That's correct.

629
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: And one of the things that you've been doing, which

630
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: I think is probably one of the more important things,

631
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: is trying to correct the record when it comes to

632
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election and its integrity. Talk to us

633
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: about sort of if you could set the stage of

634
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: how you became this celebrity. Sorry, I apologize for the

635
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: use of the word celebrity.

636
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 4: No no, no, I guess it's just my quasi looking

637
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 4: at local in there. No, no, no, you'll come on

638
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 4: board on for it. On well, one, the election administration

639
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: is sort of new to the business of communicating regarding

640
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 4: the process. There weren't too many people prior to say,

641
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen that were terribly interested in the nuts and

642
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 4: bolts of election administration. And so this is still an

643
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 4: ecosystem that is being built out, and so is new landscape.

644
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 4: And then obviously since twenty twenty, there have been a

645
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 4: countless number of false allegations about both the twenty twenty election,

646
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty two election, and there haven't been too

647
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 4: many people who have been consistently and with technical specificity

648
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 4: pushing back against the falsehoods. And there have been even

649
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 4: fewer who are elected Republicans. And so I think that

650
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 4: has made me a bit of an anomaly and maybe

651
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 4: the celebrity I've earned has just been the product of

652
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 4: my being a bit of a anomalist freak.

653
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: Yes, anomalist freak. Well, welcome, because that's something we love.

654
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: One of the problems with elections is that every state

655
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: is different, certain counties are different. There's very little uniformity

656
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: in it, which actually protects our election. Zah, Will you

657
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: explain a little bit about that.

658
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is a feature in a flaw, as you

659
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 4: have correctly identified. We have over eight thousand voting jurisdictions

660
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 4: in the United States. We have fifteen in Arizona. The

661
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 4: fifteen different counties. Elections are administered at the county level

662
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 4: in Arizona. That is a feature in that no two

663
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 4: systems are exactly alike. It's not the same people, it's

664
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 4: not the same software. Necessarily, it's not the same machinery.

665
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 4: And so the notion that you could flip a switch

666
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 4: or install a program into some mothership computer that would

667
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 4: then disseminate out to all election jurisdictions throughout the United States.

668
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 4: Is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how elections work in

669
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 4: the United States. That's why some of the more outlandish

670
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 4: theories of the twenty twenty election, as far as dominion

671
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 4: being able to control everything, or one software patch or

672
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 4: something like that, where for anyone who knew about elections

673
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 4: pretty silly. It's a bug in that a lot of

674
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: our politics has become nationalized, and people on election night,

675
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 4: especially in November of even years, look to the MSNBC,

676
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 4: CNN's Fox News is of the world and they will

677
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: see something being said and being done in one state

678
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 4: that won't necessarily be done or said in another state,

679
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 4: and that can create confusion, that can create concern. Why

680
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 4: does Pennsylvania have so few of its ballots reported immediately

681
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 4: but Washington was just able to immediately provide fifty percent

682
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 4: of its expected returns. Well, Washington could pre process Pennsylvania couldn't.

683
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 4: In Florida, more people have show up in person and

684
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 4: they drop off their early ballots earlier. So that is

685
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 4: something that we have had to remind viewers members of

686
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 4: the media that this is federalizomat it's core in how

687
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 4: our election administration is designed.

688
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: Someone like you isn't necessarily a public facing individual in

689
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: most states, so you can't just call up. I mean,

690
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: on this podcast, we have interviewed so many state level politicians,

691
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: like during the Virginia we interviewed, you know, during that

692
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: Virginia election, we interviewed like a lot of delegates, right,

693
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: a lot of state senators. So I know that not

694
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: and I mean this with all the love in the world,

695
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: not all state officials are ready to handle the media spotlight.

696
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 4: I think that's a very fair statement, and it is

697
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 4: not unduly disrespectful.

698
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: Okay, good, and nor should they, right, I mean, that's

699
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: not you. You know, your job is very technical too.

700
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I want you to talk about your lawsuit

701
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: because it seems to be the only way to stop

702
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: this disinformation. Carry Lake decided that she was governor and

703
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 1: that this would somehow even though you're a Republican, even

704
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: though you do this very technical job, but somehow you

705
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: were involved in us.

706
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: Right.

707
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 4: So Carry Lake was somebody who is new to Republican

708
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 4: Party politics. In about twenty twenty went on the scene,

709
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 4: really built her character around the idea that the twenty

710
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 4: twenty election was stolen. Made her fame in politics in

711
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 4: that vein Ran became the gubernatorial nominee for the Republican

712
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 4: Party in the twenty twenty two election, narrowly lost to

713
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 4: the Democratic candidate, alleged a whole bunch of crazy things

714
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 4: that were a continuation of all the things that she

715
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 4: was saying about twenty twenty. Filed numerous election complaints in

716
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 4: which she would air these very specific allegations regarding actions

717
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: that I purportedly took two in particular, that I had

718
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 4: injected three hundred thousand early ballots that were fraudulent into

719
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 4: the voting system, and that I had manipulated machinery so

720
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 4: as to swing the election in favor of her opponent.

721
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 4: She files those lawsuits, court says there's no evidence for this,

722
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 4: no foundation for this. It pretty much kicks the snot

723
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 4: out of her on all of her claims, including others.

724
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 4: She appeals to the Court of Appeals, loses the Court

725
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 4: of Appeals, she loses at the Arizona Supreme Court. There's

726
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 4: another trial, she loses on that, and so she has

727
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 4: a very intense awareness that all these things have been

728
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 4: measured and they have been found wanting on evidence and

729
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 4: facts and law. Nonetheless, she persists in making these very

730
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 4: serious accusations that I stole the twenty twenty two election

731
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 4: from her. She would go to events, she would write

732
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: on Twitter, she would write in her fundraising emails. She

733
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 4: would name me. She would show pictures of me at

734
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 4: events where she would try to stir up the crowd.

735
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 4: This man, this Stephen Richer. He injected three hundred thousand

736
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 4: fraudulent bouts, and she would say it time after time.

737
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: Did you find it scary or now?

738
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 4: Some people would report back to me, including a writer

739
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: for the Washington Post, and he said, make sure you're

740
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 4: taking precautions because people are being whipped up into a frenzy. Here.

741
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 4: I'm imagining sort of the scene and Beauty and the Beast,

742
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 4: where Gastan says, you know, grab your pitch fork, grab

743
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 4: your hoe, and we're going to go kill the beast. Yeah,

744
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 4: he continues, and we're thinking, Ah, she'll get over it.

745
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 4: Most people do. Maybe not in this new age. She'll

746
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 4: get a new job. But this became the cornerstone of

747
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 4: her continued political relevance. Her political fundraising. She even wrote

748
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 4: a book in which I appear in a really creepy,

749
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 4: weird dream sequence that she supposedly has, And we were

750
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 4: at our wits end and so filed this defamation lawsuit.

751
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 4: My legal team and I we thought we had a

752
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 4: very strong case because obviously it's very false. She'd been

753
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 4: told it was false, she knew from court rulings it

754
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 4: was false. It did real damage to my family and me,

755
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 4: and we've been successful so far. She filed motions to

756
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 4: dismiss she lost on those multiple times, and then when

757
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 4: it came time to really get going on discovery and

758
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 4: fact investigation, she defaulted, meaning that a judgment is going

759
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 4: to be entered into the court of law saying that yes,

760
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 4: Carrie Lake defamed Stephen Richer. She could not prove the

761
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 4: truth of her allegations. She is not defending their falsity,

762
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 4: she is not defending malice. And now the only thing

763
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 4: that we have left to work on is how many

764
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 4: zeros are in the damages award and how much did

765
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 4: she destroy my character among certain people?

766
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about the dream sequence?

767
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

768
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it.

769
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: Wait, she wrote a book, Yeah, she.

770
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 4: Wrote a book published in the summer of twenty three.

771
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 4: In her dream sequence, I and one of my colleagues

772
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 4: from the county. We kidnap her. We tie her up

773
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 4: in duct tape. We throw her into the back of

774
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 4: a pickup truck. We drive her out into the desert.

775
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 4: But then, because she drops a footnote that she was

776
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 4: a high school gymnast, she was able to contort herself

777
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 4: out of her duct tape bindings. And then because she

778
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 4: ran track in high school, she was able to sprint

779
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 4: off while we as bumbling fools. Though we fired shots

780
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 4: after her, we weren't able to get her. And I'll

781
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 4: say that in a foot race, I'm guessing I destroy

782
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 4: this lady.

783
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the whole thing is so just deeply,

784
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: deeply disturbing and also quite strange.

785
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 4: If you read this in a different context, you would

786
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 4: say this person is a lunatic.

787
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: Right, let's keep going with this for a minute. She

788
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: continued to defame you when you won this case, because

789
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: this is like the Rudy Giuliani problem, right, Like you

790
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: had the two election workers who sued Judy Giuliani, and

791
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: you had Egene Carroll Sewing Trump Boyd. When you sue

792
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: these people for defamation. They tend not to stop defaming.

793
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: Did she actually stop defaming?

794
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 4: This is all pretty new, so we'll see. But certainly

795
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 4: in the immediate aftermath of her defaulting, it was bizarre

796
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 4: because at the same time she's resting her defense in

797
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 4: a court of law, she's going on to Twitter and

798
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 4: saying I stand by everything I said, and so you

799
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 4: better believe that we're watching those statements, and if she continues,

800
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 4: then we will take appropriate legal action because now we

801
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 4: have a judgment that these are defamatory remarks that she

802
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 4: cannot defend. She cannot prove our troop.

803
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: The central tenant of our democracy is that we have

804
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: free and fair elections. Why do we think that these

805
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: trumpy I don't even want to say Republicans, because there

806
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: are good Republicans who they really that's sort of Trump in,

807
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, these lies about the election, these Trump he

808
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: lies about the election.

809
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 4: The incentive structure right now, the most powerful endorsement in

810
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 4: politics right now is a Republican primary endorsement from President Trump.

811
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 4: And this is a necessary and sometimes sufficient qualification for

812
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 4: getting his endorsement is telling him very fervently that he

813
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 4: won the twenty twenty election.

814
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: If he wins. Obviously we all have figger problems. But

815
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: in a world where the Republican Party loses an all

816
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 1: and finally becomes sane again, some part of this base

817
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: has descended in trump Ism, But it seems as if

818
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 1: there are people who can come back and be quote

819
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: unquote more normal.

820
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 4: I think so, and it's why I'm still part of

821
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 4: the Republican Party because I believe in the twenty sixteen

822
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 4: party platform. I believe in the twenty twelve party platform,

823
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 4: and the philosophy of a limited government and small, lower taxes,

824
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 4: lower regulation. We can quibble about those things of whether

825
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 4: the party, you know, consistently implements those but that's not

826
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 4: really the purpose of today's conversation, I don't think. But

827
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 4: a party will always have a percentage of its voting

828
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 4: members that you know, maybe aren't you are a little

829
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 4: bit your weird uncle. Just the difference is that the

830
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 4: weird uncle has taken over the steering wheel for in

831
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 4: some instances eight years. But the Democratic Party, I would say,

832
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 4: flirted with this a little bit. And I'm not going

833
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 4: to draw one to one comparisons, but elevating Bernie Sanders

834
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 4: into the leadership role would have been giving over control

835
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 4: to not where the median member of the party used

836
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 4: to be. And so just it's an interesting phenomenon that

837
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 4: I think has its roots in intense partisanship, intense polarization,

838
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 4: intense distrust in society, intense media ecosystems that are silos,

839
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 4: and trace it back to I don't know whether it's

840
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 4: the two thousand and eight financial crisis or the Tea

841
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 4: Party movement, but just trust in anything institutionally has suffered

842
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 4: immensely over the last twenty years, and elections is simply

843
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 4: one manifestation of it. But I think that you're going

844
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 4: to find that, if, for instance, one of these courts

845
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 4: rules against President Trump in the criminal context, that you're

846
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 4: going to have a lot of people who do not

847
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 4: believe in the criminal justice system anymore so insane.

848
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a way like using more clarity

849
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: will help Republicans see that these elections were fair, you know,

850
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: because clearly you think about this a lot. Give me

851
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: your hot take for the solve here.

852
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 4: I think we have to accept that there's a percentage

853
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 4: of the party that will never be convinced even moving forward.

854
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 4: I think we have to accept that there's even a

855
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 4: larger percentage that is never going to change their opinion

856
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 4: about twenty twenty election. Why we try to provide more

857
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 4: and more information and combat false information online is because

858
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 4: we believe that there are people, especially forward looking people,

859
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 4: who can be convinced with more information, that this is

860
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 4: a system that they can have confidence in even if

861
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 4: they don't like the outcome. And so we're not look

862
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 4: at we're not shooting for one hundred percent here, And truthfully,

863
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 4: that's never happened in American politics. There's always been a

864
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 4: distrust from the losing party. It's just we've seen it

865
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 4: on steroids these last few years. But I hope that

866
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 4: we can bring back people. A central core belief of

867
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 4: mine is that man is still a rational reacher and

868
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 4: if you hit him with facts and logics, then that's

869
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 4: going to have an impact to at least a good

870
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 4: number of people.

871
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: Well, let's hope. Thank you so much. This is really interesting,

872
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: So thanks.

873
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 4: Great.

874
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: Moment. Oh fuck on, Jesse Cannon, Molly jung Fast.

875
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,240
Speaker 4: The juice is loose in the afterlife.

876
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: Sometimes mainstream media. Look, it's very hard. Writing straight down

877
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: the middle is very hard. But OJ Simpson's obituary has

878
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: proven to be a sticky wicket that many a mainstream

879
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: news outlet has failed. O J. Simpson, athlete whose trial

880
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: riveted the nation, dies at seventy six. He ran to

881
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: football fame on the field and made fortunes in movies,

882
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: but his world was ruined after he was charged with

883
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: killing his former wife and her friend. Hmmm, the passive voice,

884
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: this is a choice. And then we had breaking news

885
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: football great orenthal James Simpson, known as Ojay has died. Perhaps,

886
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: but I think the height of fuckery will be the

887
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: La Times accidentally using the name Trump in place of

888
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: Simpson near the end of their oh bit. And I'm

889
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: just going to read you the sentence because it's amazing.

890
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: Long before the city woke up on a fall morning

891
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, Trump walked out of the Lovelock County

892
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: Correction Center outside of Reno a freeman for the first

893
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: time in nine years. And that, my friends, is our

894
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

895
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the

896
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

897
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

898
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going, and again thanks

899
00:50:58,560 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: for listening.

900
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: Two