1 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Let's begin today show with some apparently irrelevant hippo facts 2 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: that will come into play later in the episode. Number one, 3 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: Did you know hippos cannot swim and they cannot float? 4 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: What It's true. So when whenever you see a hippo 5 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: emerge from the murky waters and like an adventure type movie, 6 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: they're literally just walking on the on the bottom of 7 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: the body of water, it's true. They walk or stand 8 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: on surfaces below the water like sandbanks. Ben, that's fascinating information. Thanks. No, 9 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: they're also called land cows. Did you see that? That 10 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: stright my favorite things. And they're also straight sea horse teeth. 11 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: They are, they aren't the straight sea horse teeth much 12 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: like our super producer Casey Pegram. Casey has the straightest 13 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: teeth of anyone in this crew, the most sea horse 14 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: of teeth. So today we've got to we've got to 15 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: set out maybe a couple of disclaimers. First off, this 16 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: one's on me. I just got back into town. My 17 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: body has no idea what time it is or what 18 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: day it is. Uh my left arms a little loopy. Yeah, 19 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: But overall I might be a bit punchy in today's episode, 20 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: and I might say some things that are largely irrelevant. 21 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: It's okay, how is how is that any different than usual? Yeah? 22 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: I mean on either side totally. What I meant that, 23 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: that's totally what it's it's it's true. Well maybe it 24 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: will be for the good of the show, hopefully, but 25 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: we have actually is so far. Let's the street continues. 26 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: We also have a second disclaimer about today's episode, big 27 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: one mat of disclaimer and not even a disclaimer, more 28 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: a pre recommendation. Our colleagues Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson, 29 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: who you know from stuff you missed in history class 30 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: fame um, have covered this very topic and a quite 31 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: meaty two parter. So, um, stop what you're doing right 32 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: now and listen to theirs. This is a throwaway episode 33 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: that we're about to do for you. Well, maybe maybe 34 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: listen to ours first, so we don't have to follow 35 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: that act. That's fair. Well, let's consider ours, like the 36 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: cliffs Notes version, and there's like the Encyclopedia Britannic conversion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 37 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: the Primer I think we called it off, that's right, 38 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: or if you're British Primer primmer. Yes, So this this 39 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: is a crazy story. One of our first episodes on 40 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History was also hippocentric. It was, wasn't it the 41 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: first episode? It may have been the first episode the 42 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: wild Hippos of Pablo Escobar, which is a which I 43 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: think is a fascinating story. And I did check, and 44 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: those hippos are still running rampant maca macaca, Yes, wreaking 45 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: watery havoc wherever they can walk or stand in a 46 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: watery surface, because again, they neither swim nor flu How 47 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: did you happen upon this, this little tidbit about the 48 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: watery nature of hippos. I read a lot about hippos 49 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: on the plane. It yeah, because I I was too 50 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: cheap to pay for the WiFi, and I downloaded some 51 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: articles beforehand. And that's a long flight. You didn't pop 52 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: for the WiFi? I I eventually did not, because the 53 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: flight went by the north Pole, at which point, even 54 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: if you pay for WiFi, there's no service. Did you 55 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: see the pole, that barber pole that marks the spot? 56 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: I did not yet I did not. So that's going 57 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: to be for the next trip. If you want to go. 58 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: Have you revealed where you where you were traveling to 59 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: or we mentioned I think we mentioned previous episodes possible, 60 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: let's just double down. Yeah Yeah, traveled to Korea for 61 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: a week on my continuing quest to enter not just 62 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: the d m Z, but what's called the Joint Protection Area, 63 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: which is the blue building where you can walk across 64 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: into North Korea. That was and have you seen Conan 65 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: without borders the travel Then he goes into that room 66 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: and there's like guards and they're all wearing like in 67 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: sunglasses inside, and there's one side of this room where 68 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: you're in North Korea, one side you're in South Korea. 69 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: And him and Steven Jon from The Walking Dead do 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: a funny little bit where they like broadcast the weather 71 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: from each side of the room, and surprise, surprise, it's 72 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: the same weather. You know, it's it's surprisingly, well not surprisingly, 73 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: it's tricky to get into that area, uh and the 74 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: any number of people or institutions can cancel it day up. 75 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: So I didn't make it this time, but I had 76 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: a wonderful time, wonderful trip nonetheless, and will probably be 77 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: returning until I can finally get into that building. In 78 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: the meantime, let's take some advantage of those that that 79 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: that hippo research time. You have it out on that plane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 80 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: what are we talking about. Let's do it today. We 81 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: are talking about not just hippos or and cows, but 82 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: a enormously influential role they almost played in American history. 83 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: And uh, the American meat industry. Cool boy, that's the 84 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: whole thing unto itself. And it was a thing onto 85 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: itself at this point because there just wasn't enough meat. 86 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: It was the earliest of the nineteen oh one and 87 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: the United States was in when the throes of a 88 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: meat shortage, and you know, I see that, and I 89 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,559 Speaker 1: immediately I'm like, well, why didn't people just start eating 90 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: more vegetables? Right right? Why don't we pursue a Michael 91 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: Paulin esque omnivore's dilemma approach? Right? It's funny because that 92 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: actually does kind of figure into this a little later, 93 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: but for now, let's set the scene. Yes, So, the 94 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: dawn of hippopotamus ranching, as we would later come to 95 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: call it, really peaked in nineteen ten and starts in 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds. Hits the point of, hey, it's 97 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: a great idea to practice. Hippopotamus ranching really hits it's 98 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: it's peak. There was as you said, nol Um an 99 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: alarming shortage of meat. This is a result of several factors. 100 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: These were peak years of immigration, and cities were exploding 101 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: in terms of population, and although the meat industry itself 102 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: was growing by significant leaps and bounds, it was not 103 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: growing fast enough to keep up with all the new 104 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: hungry people traveling to the US and being born here. 105 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: So consequently, beef prices were through the roof. That beef 106 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: bill was just astronomical. I know it was putting people 107 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: out of house and home just to just to keep 108 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: their families beefed up, I guess. But like I said, 109 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: though that, I don't see any mention of seeking alternative. 110 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: They don't even talk of like eating dogs like it 111 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: was that bad. People just needed their meat, And I'm like, 112 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: was it I was it a taste thing? Literally? Was it? 113 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: Like we just really loved the taste of meat over vegetables, 114 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: Like you think they would be more like urban farming 115 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: or something would have sprung up to kind of fill 116 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: that gap. But that was it was such a big deal. 117 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: It was dubbed the meat question. Yes, it was dubbed 118 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: the meat question. Part of it ties into the availability 119 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: of pasture right of land for these animals to grazes, 120 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: right because meat was was already so popular that, you know, 121 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: like we tend to do or we don't think ahead 122 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: as a country. Uh, pastures had become overgrazed because you know, 123 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: to have beef cattle, they have to graze and feed 124 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: on grass and pastures. What happens when they're overgrazed right there, 125 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: there's nowhere for the cattle to eat, and so there's 126 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: no opportunity to grow them into you know, delicious hamburgers 127 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: and ribs. We do have to bracket that idea of 128 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: vegetarianism just for a moment, but we will get back 129 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: to it, I believe we will. So into this fray, uh, 130 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: into the midst of the meat question, come to very 131 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: fascinating guys, super cool. Yeah, one named Frederick Russell Burnham 132 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: and one named We might need a Casey assist on 133 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: this one. Casey, we've got a gentleman by the name 134 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: of Fritz d u q u E s n E. 135 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: I'm picturing it as a sort of du Frain, like 136 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: Andy Dufrain from the Shawshank Redemption. You can do ken, 137 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: you can, you can you can something like that. Yeah, 138 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: Casey on the case, Casey on the case. And it's 139 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: funny because it's interesting to me how sometimes in French 140 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: you actually do pronounce those seemingly silent letters, like one 141 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: version of that Casey was saying the s a little bit. Well, 142 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: the yes names especially have lots of weird exceptions, and 143 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: sometimes you literally just have to check. There's not like 144 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: a hard and fest rule that you can always be 145 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: assured is gonna work. So double casey on the case. 146 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: So we have these guys, Frederick and Fritz. Let's let's 147 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: examine the life of Frederick Russell Burnham. First. This guy 148 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: is quoted by some sources as being the man with 149 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: the most complete life ever lived. You'll hear him refer 150 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: to as the inspiration for Indiana Jones. You'll hear that 151 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts were created to mold young men into 152 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: a more Frederick Russell Burnham esque shape. Morally speaking, Yeah, 153 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: the name alone just inspires me. Frederick Russell Burnham. It 154 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: just sounds like a real magic man, a real wrecontour, 155 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: you know. Um. And yeah, he was an outdoorsman. I 156 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: guess you could say the early form of something like 157 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,599 Speaker 1: a naturalist, right, Yeah, he would be described as emphatically 158 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: a man's man able active alert. Uh. He gave people 159 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: an impression of force and self control. In nine, Burnham 160 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: was forty nine years old and in September nineteenth of 161 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: that year, he visited the Maryland Hotel in Pasadena, California. 162 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: What happened then, then, so so, I'm so glad you asked. 163 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: He was there to address what was known as the 164 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: Humane Association of California at their annual convention. This group 165 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: was dedicated to the prevention of cruelty to animals. They 166 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: had quickly become one of California's the most powerful civic organizations. 167 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: And Burnham, later on in his life, now you know 168 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: he's middle aged. He is part of an eccentric brain 169 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: trust that was trying to launch their own innovative animal 170 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: project off the ground. They wanted to answer the meat question, 171 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: and they thought that the civic minded people, the philanthropist 172 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: of the Humane Association of California would be really good 173 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: folks to have on their side. Burnham was doing this 174 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: with a very calculated air. It's proven that privately he 175 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: made fun of these sorts of organizations. Like in his 176 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: off time, he he had no time for that kind 177 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: of flim flammer any that kind of pomp and circumstances. 178 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: He wanted to be out there in the wild, communing 179 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: with nature, not behind a podium front of a bunch 180 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: of stuff shirts delivering a speech. And he thought their 181 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: priorities were off, you know what I mean. So he 182 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: wanted to get their support, nonetheless for his idea. And 183 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: it was an idea that was already circulating through the 184 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: halls of d C in the form of a bill 185 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: introduced by Louisiana congressman named Robert Broussard. The pitch was this, 186 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: we don't have enough room for beef. We're not we're 187 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: not growing enough cattle. But we got all these swamps 188 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: and we don't quite know what to do with them. 189 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: There's kind of mucky and gross and nothing really grows 190 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: there that we can use um. And there's also these 191 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: like invasive plants that are really mucking up the ecosystem. 192 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: Uh what if, what if? Mind you, there was some 193 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: sort of creature that couldn't really swim or float but 194 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: could exist just fine, and some shallow water like that, 195 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: and with graze on these invasive plants, which you might 196 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: be able to drop the name of then the water hyacinth. Ah, yes, 197 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: the pesky water hyacinth. So what you there is such 198 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: a creature? Yes, yes, picture this like a made for 199 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: TV ad where Billy May says, but wait, there's more. 200 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: So there is such a creature. It turns out a 201 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: creature from the continent of Africa, the creature known as 202 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: the hippopotamus. The hippopotamus, which is gigantic is um native 203 00:12:53,040 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: to similar ecosystems, you know, shallow watery depths, right, wetlands, 204 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: marshy areas, vegetation, And so they said, close enough for 205 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: government work. Why don't we Why don't we walk with 206 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: us here? Why don't we take some hippos, a breeding 207 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: population of hippos from their native environment and bring them 208 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: to Louisiana to fight the invasive water hyacinth, also turning 209 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: this marshal land into something productive. And then we'll eat 210 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: hippos because they're delicious. As it turns out we maybe 211 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: they might be. That's I mean, that's the pitch. And 212 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: it seems way less gross than eating dogs, which we 213 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: were totally considering doing. We were considering as a nation 214 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: eating a lot of animal, a lot of animals because 215 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: we just had to have that sweet, sweetmeat like antelopes, 216 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: what else, ostriches, That's what we kind of collectively referred 217 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: to as bush meat kind of right, It's like the 218 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: stuff that we wouldn't really mess with, um, but it's funny. 219 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: Obviously they have not heard our podcast about the hippos, 220 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: the wild hippos of Pablo Escobar, because then they would 221 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: know that hippos can be an invasive species in and 222 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: of themselves very much. But none of this really came 223 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: to pass ultimately, so they didn't get a chance to 224 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: realize what a can of worms they were opening up 225 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: by doing this. But there's more. There's another Fritz. Let's 226 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: talk about our boy Fritz. What does he played into this? Yeah, 227 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: let's talk about Fritz. So, Fritz is a bore. The 228 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: Boers are the descendants of Dutch settlers colonizers in Africa. 229 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: This guy is super sketchy. He he lives life. According 230 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: to John Mulum, this guy quote moves through life using 231 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: uh variety of aliases. He was a con man, and 232 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: you know how we love con artists here on ridiculous history. 233 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: He fought against the British and the Second Boer War 234 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,359 Speaker 1: and similar to Burnham, he had spent some time as 235 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: a kind of a freelance spy. Burnham hated Fritz and 236 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: once called him the human epitome of sin and deception, 237 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: whereas Burnham had been described as the most complete human 238 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: being who ever lived. So couldn't be more different these two, 239 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: and they ended up being quite the odd couple, didn't that? Yes? Yeah, 240 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: because their interests aligned right, their interests the line. But 241 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: previously on a previous episode of Fritz and Frederick and 242 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: they have been specifically tasked to murder one another. Yeah, 243 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't find any more about that. I 244 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: saw that detail in the interview with this with this 245 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: Wired writer Mullum. But what what what happened with that? I? 246 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: I need to know more. It sounded like they were 247 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: maybe on the opposite sides of some sort of conflict. 248 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: It's true during the Second Boer War, Fritz was under 249 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: orders to specifically assassinate Frederick Burnham, and he was under Burnham, 250 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: I mean, was under a similar set of orders. It 251 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: did not come to pass. And then apparently they were 252 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: able to let igons be bygones? Are you know death 253 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: orders be something that's nicer than death orders? I don't know. 254 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: After the Boer War, Burnham remained active in counter espionage 255 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: for Britain, and apparently a lot of his job in 256 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: this post war environment was just keeping an eye on Fritz, 257 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: just specifically watching his activities and and seeing what he 258 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: was about. So when we fast forward to when Burnham 259 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: and this previously mentioned Congressman Robert Bursard are trying to 260 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: popularize the idea of hippos as livestock, Burnham and Bissard 261 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: found something called the New Food Supply Society. The idea 262 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: of being that they'll import what they see is useful 263 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: African wildlife into the US to solve the meat question. 264 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: And Broussard needs some experts, and so he says, who 265 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: would be a good expert on African wildlife? These two 266 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: men's men that have spent a lot of time in Africa, 267 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the whole rivalry thing aside, maybe 268 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: they can figure out a way to get along and 269 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: work towards a common goal. And they ultimately kind of did. 270 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: They formed essentially like a lobbying group kind of Yeah, yeah, 271 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: they formula lobbying group with the New Food Supplies Society. 272 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: They were pushing something called the American hippo bill, and 273 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: the American hippo bill was asking Uncle Sam for two 274 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand to import hippos into the bios 275 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: as a new food source and then to control the 276 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: other pre existing invasive species, the water hyacinth. So, just 277 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: to emphasize the highlight the logic here, they said, let's 278 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: introduce another invasive species to solve our original invasive species problem. 279 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: This is similar in some ways to that scene in Fantasia, 280 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: which I know I reference at nauseum, wherein the Wizard 281 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse animates one mop and then quickly gets over 282 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: his head and then all the mops start going insane 283 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: and kind of mutate into some sort of violent, uh 284 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: you know mob. And this, despite this lack of knowledge 285 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: of Disney films on the part of Uncle Sam at 286 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: this time, and despite the just the weird unorthodox nature 287 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: of the proposal, people are largely behind it. Even former 288 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: President Theodore Roosevelt backs the plan. He was a man's 289 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: man himself, wasn't it, Yes, yes he was. And The 290 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: New York Times writes an article praising the taste of 291 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: hippopotamus meat, and I can't remember, did I say? Land 292 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: cow in the beginning, and okay, it's late cow cow. 293 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: That's just a cow. But these are lake cows. And 294 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: the New York Times wanted to call this stuff lake 295 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: cow bacon. Uh So Fritz pro wide expert testimony about 296 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: hippos as livestock to the House Committee on Agriculture, and 297 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: the bill is in action. For a second, it looks 298 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: like it has a real chance of passing, and then 299 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: what it just fizzles. Doesn't get that nothing like catastrophic happened, 300 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: Like it just kind of seems like it just the 301 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: whole idea, I know what it was. It was sort 302 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: of on the edge of being able to engineer some 303 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: of those farmland, those uh you know, overgrazed pastures into 304 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: new environments. Yeah, that's it exactly. This plan would have 305 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: come to pass had not other other technological innovation adustrial 306 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: agriculture into Yeah, it's industrial agriculture. And so now we're 307 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: in a situation where we say, hey, we I guess 308 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: we don't need to import a huge population of hippos 309 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: and try to fundamentally reboot our livestock system. Now we 310 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: can just take what we were already doing to a 311 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: new level of scale. That's right. And this guy, this 312 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: writer John mulum Hope and produced his name right, please 313 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: forgive me from like um. He makes a point in 314 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: an interview with Wired that it was almost like starting 315 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: to resemble the kind of like local you know, locally 316 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: bread and slaughtered kind of like things that foodie scenes 317 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: are so big on, you know nowadays. They were talking 318 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: about importing ostriches and having ostrich farms and any other 319 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: kind of like animals like they could get their hands on, 320 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: like antelopes and anything was really on the table. And 321 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: it was this idea of having a an incredibly local, 322 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: locally sourced food system even though they were imported. They 323 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: would be kind of bread naturally locally and then slaughtered 324 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: locally and everything, as opposed to having everything like imported. Yeah, 325 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: kind of a farm to table. That's the one I 326 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: was looking for. Certain it's weird when you consider this 327 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: because we're at a a pivotal point in history, and 328 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: it's it's incredibly tempting to speculate how things would be 329 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: in the modern restaurants of nineteen had this plan and 330 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: similar propositions succeeded, you know, we would we be in 331 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: a situation where food is more regional, or livestock is 332 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: more regional. Would we be in a situation where someone says, well, 333 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: you have to go to Nebraska to get a good 334 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: hamburger because that's where we have cows. Now, that's that's 335 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: certainly an absurd thought, you know, considering the way things 336 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: are done these days. It seems like it now, right, 337 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: it seems like it now. And you know, one of 338 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: the things that mystifies a lot of my friends who 339 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: visit the US from out of the country is just 340 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: the ubiquitous nature of food. You can you can get 341 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: anything anywhere. Well, if you think about like in Japan, 342 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: for example, like proper waigo beef, isn't that very regional 343 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: like that, like to actually get it that where it's 344 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: actually the real deal, because it's obviously it's one of 345 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: the things that can be thrown around, like you even 346 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: see it on the menu at like chilies or something. 347 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: Why you be sliders or whatever. Right, it's true. And 348 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,479 Speaker 1: this is where we see Michael Pollen returning because Michael Pollen, 349 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: who writes quite extensively about the problem of agriculture, the 350 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: problem in industrial agriculture, he would argue that ultimately it 351 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: is better and more sustainable for us to pursue as 352 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: a species, these sorts of regional models of food ways, 353 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. He would say that had 354 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: the hippo industry taken off, it would have been ultimately 355 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: better for the planet. You know. Uh, that is not 356 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: where we are now. Now. We are in a reality 357 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: where we could the three of us and and you listening, 358 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: we could all travel in different directions in the lower 359 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: forty eight States for sure, and then pretty much order 360 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: the same thing. You can find the same thing anywhere. Yeah, 361 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's a time where the idea 362 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: of getting seafood in a land locked part of the 363 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: country would have been insane, you know, but not not 364 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: so much anymore with like refrigeration technology. And here in Atlanta, 365 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: especially because we are near such a huge shipping hub 366 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: with the airport. Um, there's constantly flux and things coming through. 367 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: You know, you can get here. That's probably true. I'm 368 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: sure it is. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Um. I 369 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: really recommend there is behind a paywall, but um that 370 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: this writer John Mullam wrote a piece for the Atavist 371 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: website called American Hippopotamus um and I read some excerpts 372 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: from it, and it's it's very very good, right. He 373 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: goes into the backgrounds of these two very fascinating men 374 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: in a very deep dive way and talks through this 375 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: whole uh problem in situation and what ultimately came of him. 376 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: It is also the source of it's the first time 377 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: I found this quote. It's it's the source of my 378 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: favorite quotation about Fritz Duking. He was described as not 379 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: only the human epitome of sin and deception, but get 380 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: this stole a walking, living, breathing, Syrian, killing, destroying torch 381 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: of hate. WHOA. I don't think that made it into 382 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: the congressional record. I don't think so either, but it 383 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: made it into the podcast record. And I think there's 384 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: not much of a better way to wrap this up 385 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: than with that, my friend. That's true. That's true. This 386 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: ends our tale of the would be hippopotamus livestock empire 387 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: that never quite came to pass and now is currently 388 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: relegated to the Hall of good but ultimately unsuccessful ideas 389 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: such as giraffe ranches and Ostrich farms. We hope that 390 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,239 Speaker 1: you enjoy today's episode. Let us know what we uh 391 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: it's I've been here the whole time. Jonathan Strickland, a 392 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: k a. The Quister. It is true you have been here. 393 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: Fact that you wouldn't acknowledge my existence for half an 394 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: hour really hurts. I'm sorry, man. If you heard any weird, labored, 395 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: evil breathing, that was Strickland on the mic A couple 396 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: of times he rolled his eyes so hard that I'm 397 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: pretty sure translated to audio. Listen, then listen, listen, Ben, listen. 398 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: You're talking about my boy Fritz, and you're casting expersions 399 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: left and right. I can't let this just go by. Ben. 400 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: Fritz is my boy. You have something of a super villain. 401 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: And let me tell you you have not scratched the 402 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: surface of Fritz. Fritz was an insurance scam walking down 403 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: the streets. He was in the movie business, worked for 404 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: r k O Pictures. He actually was arrested for insurance fraud. 405 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: He sounds like he needs his own episode. He is amazing. 406 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: And guess what, we're going to test your knowledge about 407 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: Fritz ducan right now. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, if you 408 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: don't understand what's happening, I don't blame you. I don't 409 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: understand it myself, and I don't even have the excuse 410 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: of an international flight like Mr Bolin. Know what we 411 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: are going to do is I'm going to pose a 412 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: scenario to these two gentlemen. They will have three minutes 413 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: to discuss the scenario between the two of them, and 414 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: they may ask questions of me during those three minutes 415 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: to determine whether the scenario is in fact historical or 416 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: if I've made it up. Seats and so this time 417 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: has always I have to come up with an arbitrary 418 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: rule for you to say or do before you ask 419 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: a question. This time because one of the many things 420 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: Fritz Ducan was known for was during both World Wars 421 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: he was a spy for the German government. So before 422 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: you ask any questions, you will have to preface it 423 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: with atung baby like that you records. Really, that's why 424 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: I was kind of I was they would it's both 425 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: thematic and we can bring some attention. I think I 426 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: think it is. I think that's sort of considered that 427 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: one of their lesser works. I would it was really 428 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: broken up about that. Anyway, I will give you your 429 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: scenario and then we will start the enormous Grandfather clock 430 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: for its three minutes. Yea I'm stretching now. I've got 431 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: to run all the way across this gigantic shipping container 432 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: of those twelve hour flights, and economy is going to 433 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: do that to you. All right, here we go, here's 434 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: your Sonatio for its Ducan, as you've mentioned, was one 435 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: of the experts consulted for the Happy Pottus plan for Louisiana. 436 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: That's what I used to call Hippopotamus. Little Disney thought 437 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: so too. But Ducan was hardly a reliable re source. 438 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: He was a con man, He was a self promoter, 439 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: He was a big game hunter. He actually went on 440 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: big game hunts with Teddy Roosevelt, and a spy for 441 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: the Germans with a real grudge against Britain. He had 442 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: two main rivals in his career. One you've already mentioned 443 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: the fellow hippo advocate Frederick Russell Burnham, whom I trust 444 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: you remember from literally moments ago. But his other rival, 445 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: which had a very similar story in some ways, was 446 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: an English spy named Vernon Hall. Hall had never cross 447 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: paths with Ducane, which is fortunate because like Burnham, Ducane 448 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: and Hall were pledged to kill one another. They each 449 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: had orders to kill each other They were very similar 450 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, except for one major one. 451 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: Du Can was a spy but loved attention and would 452 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: bring attention on himself all the time, even posing as 453 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: a supposed British soldier with the Australian Light Cavalry at 454 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: one point. But Hall was a master of blending in 455 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: and not being noticed, which is particularly fascinating considering the 456 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: fact that he had a wooden leg. Start to the time. Okay, okay, 457 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: I'm running, I'm running. Go okay. Are you okay? Then 458 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: you really took a running leap at that wall, a 459 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: little wind. You look a little flattened. I you know what, 460 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: I'll be good for the three minutes it takes us 461 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: to figure this out. Um octung baby, yes, Mr Bo. 462 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: So are you saying that vern Wait? Are you saying 463 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: Fritz had a wooden leg? No, I'm saying Vernon Hall had. 464 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: Fritz loved attention. Vernon Hall was the opposite. Yeah, he 465 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: loved his prosthetics. Okay, baby, give me like. The log 466 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: line version of the entire question was Fritz Duken arch 467 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: Nemeses with not just one but two other spies, the 468 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: second being Vernon Hall and English spy active, by the way, 469 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: during World War two, in addition to our other player 470 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: in our in today's from the Boer War. So that 471 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: was much much, much earlier. So they were he was 472 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: kind of an assassin. Yeah, he had been tasked. He 473 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: had been tasked to assassinate more than one person. So 474 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: then it's it does seem likely that he I mean, 475 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily mortal enemies because they had beef with 476 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: each other. They were mortal enemies because they were assigned 477 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: by someone higher than them than their pay grade to 478 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: do harm to one at least initially initially. So that 479 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: being the case, it does seem likely that that would 480 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: happen more than once, or at least probably possible. Yeah, 481 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna you know what I'm gonna ask. 482 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: I think I've made up my mind. I've cast a lot, 483 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna ask another question, just because I like 484 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: the bit we're doing. I do too. I like saying 485 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: it's it's it's got a good mouth field Octogle Baby, Yes, Mr. 486 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: I just wanted to say it. That's fair. Okay, you're 487 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: thinking true. I'm thinking true. Man. Gosh, we've been on 488 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: such a good streak. I hate to squander it, but 489 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm thinking truth too, alright, so we gotta lock it in. 490 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: Let's do it alright, three two one true, Mr Boland, 491 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: Mr Boland, you are going to kick yourself so very hard. 492 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: First of all, Fritz ducan was can't do it too. 493 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: He's quite flexible. He was, in fact a spy during 494 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: both world wars, World War One and World War Two 495 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: on behalf of the Germans. He did have a very 496 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: strong anti British sentiment deep in his soul. He had 497 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: been put into prison and broke out numerous times, although 498 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: he was eventually caught and tried and eventually died in 499 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: shortly after being least because his health had gotten so 500 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: poor while he was in prison for fourteen years. But 501 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: there was no Vernon Hall. There was, however, a spy 502 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: with a wooden leg named Virginia Hall. Virginia Hall was 503 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: an American spy. Mr Bolan r. Dirty Pool not only 504 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: had a wooden leg, and while only was a spy 505 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: worked on behalf of the French resistance was it was 506 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: an American spy working in France. There's an entire building 507 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: at the CIA named after her. Why do you keep 508 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: saying my last name was a part of this too, 509 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: because Mr Bolland in particular shouldn't know more about the 510 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: Hey now, no, no dock sing here. Come on now listen. 511 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: I called dirty pool because you literally just flipped the gender. 512 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: No no. I also said he was an English spy, 513 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: not an American spy. But I didn't give you any 514 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,239 Speaker 1: details about what he did as his spy work in 515 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: World Wars. Okay, but my into our intuition of the 516 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: truthfishness of the story still held true. Well, this just 517 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: warns you that you can't necessarily believe anything about Fritz Duchan. Okay, 518 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: that's that's well written. But I feel like it also 519 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: beats we can't necessarily believe anything you say. That's kind 520 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: of the point of But I feel like I'm going 521 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: to carry this off air with us. But but here's 522 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: here's what I charge you both. I charge you both 523 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: to you should do two companion episodes, one specifically about 524 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: Burnham and the legendary exploits of Burnham, and one specifically 525 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: of Ducane and the legendary some obviously fictional exploits he 526 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: really did pose as a British soldier who had led 527 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: an Australian light cavalry. He had created an entire mythology, 528 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: mythology including being bayonitted three times in gas four times. 529 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: To what end? This was his cover story, like because 530 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: he liked the attack, like dressing up in the cavalry 531 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: uniform and having photographs taken of him. There are famous 532 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: photographs of him in that in that outfit. I mean, 533 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: be caught would be a death sentence. So he was 534 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: just totally rolling the disk for funds. He just he 535 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: just he relished the attention. But we've all been there, 536 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,439 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's you get off 537 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: work on a Friday. Next thing, you know, it's Sunday, 538 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: you're in a different country and you're dressed like a 539 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: member their military. Stuff just happened, So we know what 540 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: happened in Korea, all right, Hey, speaking segues, Uh, Jonathan 541 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: strictly dek the quister. It looks like you've won the battle, 542 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: but not the war. I'm winning the war too, but 543 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: come on, man and uh. And it just occurred to me. No, 544 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: this is the first time in twenty nineteen that we 545 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: have had our friends slash Nemesis on the show. I 546 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: really like this one. Usually this is the time kind 547 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: of low key snark at the Twister here. But now 548 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: that was very well played, sir, and he literally gave 549 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: us two new episode topics. So, um, I do need 550 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: to point something out real quick. I recently discovered something. 551 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan, as I think we all are, 552 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: of Scott Ackerman and Comedy Bang Bang. Um, the television 553 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: show Comedy Bang Bang. There is an episode wherein Tom 554 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: Green plays a character called the Quizzler and it's it's 555 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: utter parallel thinking, very similar arch villain type character to you, uh, 556 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: the Quister, Jonathan Cricle. That's want to point out that 557 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: this was not lifted. This was just simply parallel thinking. 558 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: And I saw it with my buddy and he was like, 559 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: wait a minute. We just we just know that brilliance 560 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: sometimes comes in pairs, you know, like calculus exactly exactly. 561 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: I just wanted to put that out there real quick, 562 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: lest anyone accuse us of of ripping off this segment. 563 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: Quister is also a better name. I agree that Tea 564 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: in the middle throws it off. Got a good mouth feel, 565 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: so just like Octo Baby, just like octog Baby. So 566 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show. Christ 567 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: We will get you next time. As I'm shaking my 568 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: fist at the air, we do also have to we 569 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: we have to bring up one thing. I don't want 570 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: to make the show too long. But off air, Jonathan, 571 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: you learned second or perhaps third hand about this show's 572 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: um checkered past with the musician Cheryl Crowe. Yes, something 573 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: about limericks that popped up, and I don't fully understand 574 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: what's happening. I don't remember the limericks side. Yeah, that 575 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: popped up on the on the group, the group ridiculous. 576 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,439 Speaker 1: What's with the Cheryl Crow thing? She is our now 577 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: you're you're our nemesis. I'm your branded nemesis, as assigned 578 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: by contractually obligated. Every podcast has one. It's just I'm 579 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: the only one who's allowed on Mike. Yeah. It's like 580 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: a Burnham Duquesne thing, you know what I mean, like 581 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: this rivalry, but we respect each other and this is 582 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: not the case with the popular musician Cheryl Crowe, who 583 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:20,479 Speaker 1: we discovered is our primary critic online and off. Really yeah, 584 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: Cheryl Crow criticized. Yeah, I mean no, no, no press 585 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: is bad press, I guess, but geez, she has got 586 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 1: some harsh barbs for your boys. Really, yeah, and uh, 587 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, we're we're glad. We're glad that she is around, 588 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: because it turns out that most of our subscription numbers 589 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: do come from Cheryl Crowe. You know, every day is 590 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: a winding road. I think, yes, So so what you're saying, 591 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: winding road the next concert tour, we should just be 592 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: out in the parking lots selling ridiculous history t shirts. Right. Yeah. 593 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: We just wanted to be transparent with you because we 594 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: know that you are such an ardent fan of Cheryl Row. 595 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: Now I'm growing more so every day. You guys should 596 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 1: league up, maybe have our own Injustice League Excellent like it. Well, 597 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: while you're waiting for that hellish combination to coalesce, you 598 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: can send us an email at Ridiculous at how stuff 599 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: works dot com if you would like to send us 600 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,919 Speaker 1: any musings, any thoughts about this or any other episode suggestions. 601 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: We love that. You can hit us up on our 602 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: Facebook group, The Ridiculous Historians. Yes, and you can also 603 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: find our off air personal adventures at our instagrams. I 604 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: am at Ben Bolan, I am at Embryonic Insider, and 605 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: do you have any socials you'd like to pitch plug 606 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 1: at John Strickland, I post cute pictures of my dog. Yes, 607 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: very cute dog. There's no h in the John there. 608 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: So you can also find more of Jonathan working under 609 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: his Clark Kent alter ego at his show Text, where 610 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: you how would you describe Text? I'd say that tech stuff, 611 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: and I gotta drop the whole quister thing here. The 612 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: tech stuff is tech. Tech Stuff is just about It's 613 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: about technology and about culture and about how those two 614 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: things intersect. So some episodes are a little more technology focused, 615 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: where we talk about how the technology actually works. Sometimes 616 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: we're talking about how a technology has shaped our lives 617 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: and how we in turn have shaped the evolution of 618 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: that technology. So if you're interested in anything from an 619 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: iPhone to a catapult, I've covered it on Tech Stuff. 620 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: It's true, that's true. This show has been a decade 621 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: and yeah there's more than so get started now for 622 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: for your next podcast, binge opportunity tune into Tech Stuff. 623 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: We'd also like to thank, of course, our super producer, 624 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram and Alex Williams who composed our track, and 625 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: we also like to thank Game are amazing research associate, 626 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: and of course we'd like to thank you the listening public. Wow, 627 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: that's a very clinical way of referring to our friends 628 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: out there in podcast land. I'll never do that again. 629 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: But seriously, the show wouldn't be anything without you. And 630 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: if you want to hang out with your fellow listeners, 631 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: check out that group we mentioned earlier, the Ridiculous Historians 632 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: on Facebook. I'm not looking forward to check it out. 633 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: Our score with the Twister, there's a score? Is there 634 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: someone doing a spreadsheet? I I don't know when there's 635 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: a spreadsheet, but every everyone knows we're a couple behind. 636 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: That's fair. I think we I think we eve ended 637 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: up last time and now we're behind again. We got close, 638 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: we did get close. I think you were. I think 639 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: you were one behind. Okay, yeah, because of course you're 640 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: keeping kel imagine that. All Right, that's the show, See 641 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: you next time.