Speaker 1: Pushkin. Singer songwriter Caroline Rose has always been a character.
Speaker 1: Her music videos often feature Caroline as the screwball lead
Speaker 1: navigating ambition, desire, and superstardom. Since her twenty twelve debut,
Speaker 1: Caroline's music has evolved from an American of folk sound
Speaker 1: to incorporating more elements of synth, heavy indie dance, and
Speaker 1: straight up pop. Now, on the verge of releasing her
Speaker 1: latest album, The Art of Forgetting, Caroline is shedding all
Speaker 1: of the past pretense and offering up an unflinching look
Speaker 1: into her inner life in the midst of personal turmoil.
Speaker 1: The result is an album packed with clever lyricism and
Speaker 1: soaring arrangements. Caroline produced the album and collaborated with Nick
Speaker 1: Sanborn of Silvanesso, who helped stack and distort her vocal.
Speaker 1: On today's episode, Broken Record producer Leah Rose talks to
Speaker 1: Caroline Rose about why she wanted to set her living
Speaker 1: room on fire for the sake of her album art.
Speaker 1: Caroline also shares an early demo of a song she
Speaker 1: wrote under a starry desert sky and explains how, aside
Speaker 1: from herself, Caroline's parents are her harshest critics. This is
Speaker 1: broken Record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman.
Speaker 1: Here's Lea Rose with Caroline Rose.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the new album. Yeah, where are
Speaker 2: you sitting with it?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: You're done with it, You're ready to start talking about it.
Speaker 4: Hopefully eventually you're going to start touring it. How do
Speaker 4: you feel about it now as like a completed piece
Speaker 4: of work.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, you're catching me at an interesting time because, uh,
Speaker 5: you know, I wrote these songs a while ago now,
Speaker 5: and I wasn't sure what I was even going to
Speaker 5: do with them. I thought that they were just songs
Speaker 5: that I wrote to kind of help me through this
Speaker 5: difficult time, and then it ended up being pretty clear
Speaker 5: that it was an album and it's finally coming out,
Speaker 5: which I'm I'm really proud of it as a body
Speaker 5: of work. I think it's by far my strongest material
Speaker 5: and I'm really proud of that, and I think it's
Speaker 5: really beautiful. But there's something else that it's like, it's bittersweet,
Speaker 5: I think because it's really difficult for me to have
Speaker 5: to keep reliving this stuff, and I you know, now
Speaker 5: that it's finally coming out, I'm like, wow, did I
Speaker 5: just shoot myself on the foot putting out this really
Speaker 5: painful material. Yeah, that's on me though, you know, I
Speaker 5: did this to myself really, so it's a mixed bag.
Speaker 4: The album is very much it feels very much like
Speaker 4: it's connected to a situation, and a very painful situation.
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's a if it qualifies as
Speaker 4: a breakup album, but as far as just that situation goes,
Speaker 4: do you have enough distance from it? Like do you
Speaker 4: feel like you've healed and moved on from whatever spurred this?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Well, you know, it was a series of things that
Speaker 5: all happened at the same time, so there was like,
Speaker 5: you know, this like handful of one, two, three, four
Speaker 5: punches all at the same time that I was just like, uh,
Speaker 5: And I think the process of moving on it's not linear,
Speaker 5: Like you don't ever reach a place where you're.
Speaker 6: Like, oh, I'm completely moved.
Speaker 5: On from this. You know, it'll all there will always
Speaker 5: be tendrils of things that pull you back into something.
Speaker 5: And I find myself going in these waves of I'm oh,
Speaker 5: I am moved on. You know, I'm in a much better,
Speaker 5: happier place now. And for a while I kind of
Speaker 5: lost my sense of humor and that doesn't like, that
Speaker 5: doesn't feel like the case anymore.
Speaker 6: But there are moments.
Speaker 5: I mean, I had one this morning where I was
Speaker 5: like just riddled with anxiety and fear, and I'm like,
Speaker 5: what if I done I've made a huge mistake, just
Speaker 5: full of doubt, and then I get thrown back into
Speaker 5: you know, the lore of the past of like what
Speaker 5: I could have done differently, And I think it's always
Speaker 5: going to be this way of fascinating back and forth
Speaker 5: being like, oh, I'm in a good place, and then
Speaker 5: it's like duh, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean the fact that you're so honest with this
Speaker 4: new album, because that's what it feels like. It feels
Speaker 4: like it's like almost like a primal scream, like it's
Speaker 4: obviously you processing some sort of trauma, whether it was
Speaker 4: one or many traumas, and you like really like we're
Speaker 4: going through it with you, and you know, I, as
Speaker 4: a listener, I felt very connected to you and your pain.
Speaker 4: But I also you know, when I think about Caroline Rose,
Speaker 4: like I know you almost like a character. Is that
Speaker 4: actually a decision or how did you deal with putting
Speaker 4: forth a more honest and open version of yourself?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: To be honest, it didn't really feel like good.
Speaker 7: True.
Speaker 5: It felt more more like when I was younger, uh,
Speaker 5: you know, even a teenager, and I felt really isolated
Speaker 5: in those times, you know, as like a young queer
Speaker 5: kid kind of trying to figure out who I was
Speaker 5: and where I belonged in the world. And these songs
Speaker 5: like it was really similar to that process of just
Speaker 5: you have to express yourself somehow or else it'll build up,
Speaker 5: and you know, bad things happen when you don't express
Speaker 5: yourself and you have all these feelings. It didn't feel
Speaker 5: like a choice because I had to get it out somehow.
Speaker 5: It was just you know, also, mind you, all of
Speaker 5: these things were happening in the midst of the most
Speaker 5: isolating time any of us will probably ever feel in
Speaker 5: our whole lives, like during the pandemic, and you know,
Speaker 5: being forced to kind of stay inside and be alone
Speaker 5: as much as possible, so you're just sitting just marinating
Speaker 5: in your own thoughts. So to be trying to heal
Speaker 5: from things, which requires looking inward in a very isolating time,
Speaker 5: you know, that's a lot of loneliness right there, and
Speaker 5: that's a lot of ripping some big band aids of like, Okay, well,
Speaker 5: if I'm going to improve my life and if I'm
Speaker 5: going to try and become a better person, improve my
Speaker 5: mental health and start to love myself, I have to
Speaker 5: go deep. And sometimes that's so scary. It's still scary.
Speaker 5: You know, the characters that you're talking about, they are
Speaker 5: still me. Yeah, And that was something that was probably
Speaker 5: my bad of not making that more clear that anytime
Speaker 5: I was like kind of putting on an act, it
Speaker 5: was like just a poking, fun a version of myself,
Speaker 5: like right, but this time there were no crutches because
Speaker 5: I wasn't really I didn't have any I didn't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, would the melodies come to you first? Or would
Speaker 4: the words come to you first? Like how was the
Speaker 4: actual construction of the songs happening?
Speaker 6: It's always different.
Speaker 5: I don't understand it, but you know, some things at work,
Speaker 5: some things at work in there, because sometimes you know
Speaker 5: the melody, I'll just be noodling on an instrument, the
Speaker 5: piano or guitar, which is so much fun because there's
Speaker 5: no gadgets involved.
Speaker 6: You just sit down, dress.
Speaker 5: A note and it makes a sound and then you
Speaker 5: can immediately there's no waiting, like you can just make
Speaker 5: something that sounds interesting, and there it is, and then
Speaker 5: the song is made. So sometimes it's as simple as that,
Speaker 5: as you just sit down, you hear something and then
Speaker 5: it's like pulling a thread and you're like, this makes
Speaker 5: me feel this way, and this other chord makes me
Speaker 5: feel this way, and you just pull the thread more
Speaker 5: and more until it's like, oh.
Speaker 6: This is what this is about and it's so cool. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And other times, you know it, there'll be a line.
Speaker 5: I'll be like, oh, this is such a great line.
Speaker 2: You have some great line on this album.
Speaker 6: Oh thank you.
Speaker 4: The first one that stood out to me just because
Speaker 4: the sequence of the album was in Miami, where you're
Speaker 4: talking back and forth with your mom in the song
Speaker 4: your father and I were in the last stage of
Speaker 4: our lives. So for God's sake, no more talk about
Speaker 4: you imagine dying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you're going through.
Speaker 4: All these like woes and troubles, but then you hear
Speaker 4: what your mom's going through, what she's facing, and she's like, look,
Speaker 4: I'm facing death.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, and that's real talk right there. That
Speaker 5: I feel like if only we all did that when
Speaker 5: we were having kind of getting sucked into our own
Speaker 5: little worlds. And just thought about the fact that this
Speaker 5: isn't This doesn't last forever. You know, yeah, everything is impermanent,
Speaker 5: and we all have an expiration date, including the good
Speaker 5: times and the bad times, like they all have an
Speaker 5: expiration date. So I need that reminder. And at that time,
Speaker 5: when I was writing that song, I didn't have a
Speaker 5: lot of tools to remind.
Speaker 6: Myself of that. I know, it's obvious.
Speaker 5: And now I look back, I'm like, this stuff is
Speaker 5: so obvious, but for people like me at least to
Speaker 5: get sucked into the stream of busyness and things thrown
Speaker 5: at you and expectations and you know, ambition, right.
Speaker 2: Is that an actual conversation you've had with your mom.
Speaker 6: It's almost, word for word, a real conversation.
Speaker 5: And when I was making this and when the album
Speaker 5: kind of started revealing itself as a complete thing, I
Speaker 5: did have this moment where I was like, I haven't
Speaker 5: held back with myself at all. I'm not there's no
Speaker 5: facade here, and I'm like, if I'm going to put
Speaker 5: this out, I might as well go for it, like
Speaker 5: go deep and make it as real as possible. And
Speaker 5: I mean, man, so much of this is real. If
Speaker 5: there's any quotes in there, like I don't know if
Speaker 5: you have the lyrics sheets and stuff, but sometimes I'll
Speaker 5: have little conversation. You'll see quotes where I'm having a
Speaker 5: conversation with myself and these will be like real things
Speaker 5: that I'm talking the voice in my head is saying,
Speaker 5: and you know, sometimes the voice in my head is
Speaker 5: like the most cruel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, once you started to figure out that this might
Speaker 4: actually be an album, how did you figure out what
Speaker 4: went where?
Speaker 6: Man?
Speaker 5: Sequencing is probably my favorite part of the album making process.
Speaker 5: You can craft the journey that people are going on,
Speaker 5: and you know, normally I will put the more upbeat
Speaker 5: stuff up front and then and then make it like
Speaker 5: kind of heavier as you go along, or more theorial
Speaker 5: or something, and sort of the opposite on this one.
Speaker 6: I well, first.
Speaker 5: Off, I knew that Love Love Friend was gonna be
Speaker 5: the first song. I wrote that really quickly. It just
Speaker 5: really I don't know it again, the magic I don't
Speaker 5: ask questions, but it just kind of wrote itself. It
Speaker 5: was just and I was like, this is the beginning
Speaker 5: of some sort of journey. It just felt like the
Speaker 5: beginning and it kind of captured the mystery in the longing.
Speaker 5: But to me, there's a sort of hope in it.
Speaker 5: I'll be a mixed in with some pain.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: What I thought was interesting about that song, Like, it's
Speaker 4: definitely I mean, it is the perfect first song because
Speaker 4: it makes such an emotional statement and sets the tone
Speaker 4: for the album. And you start out it's kind of
Speaker 4: like making a personal statement, and I feel like you're
Speaker 4: advocating for yourself. I'm not your lover, I'm not your mother,
Speaker 4: I'm not your son, And it feels like you're trying
Speaker 4: to figure out how you want to be treated in
Speaker 4: an intimate relationship. And you have this love on one
Speaker 4: end in your life that is unconditional, that comes from
Speaker 4: your family. And there's all these like really sweet, beautiful
Speaker 4: voicemails sprinkled throughout from I think it's your grandma. Yeah,
Speaker 4: Who's like I love you, How are you doing? Are
Speaker 4: you eating? Like these really like beautiful basic questions. She
Speaker 4: just wants to know you're okay. And then you, you know,
Speaker 4: have the conversation with your mom and you know, mention
Speaker 4: of your family, which is just like this strong, unconditional love.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh man, that makes me, it makes me like
Speaker 5: kind of weepy. Well, I should also mention my my
Speaker 5: grandma like pass away the other day. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 5: her voicemails are like all over it.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. She sounded just like the sweetest.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she she really was. She's like kind of a
Speaker 5: rock in her family. But even just thinking about my family,
Speaker 5: we're all so close and going through a hard time
Speaker 5: and having a family that really cares for one another.
Speaker 5: It's such a beautiful privilege. I just feel so grateful
Speaker 5: for my family.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: And I don't know this album, You're right, it captures
Speaker 5: a certain moment in time, And I don't really consider
Speaker 5: it a breakup album because that was just like one
Speaker 5: of the things, one of the things during that time.
Speaker 5: But to me, it's like it just will always remind
Speaker 5: me of a time when I was in pieces and myself,
Speaker 5: along with my family and my close friends like helped
Speaker 5: put me back together.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The other line that really stood out to me is
Speaker 4: on the last song on the album, on where Do
Speaker 4: I Go From Here, which is a great last song title,
Speaker 4: everybody wants a seat at the table. I just want
Speaker 4: to be swaddled and rocked in a cradle. Where did
Speaker 4: that come from?
Speaker 5: I think I vacillate between being really ambitious about something
Speaker 5: where I was like, oh, I could make you know,
Speaker 5: why do this when you can make something even bigger
Speaker 5: and greater and like it could be like legendary. And
Speaker 5: then the other side of the spectrum is like I
Speaker 5: just want to grow a garden, have my quiet little
Speaker 5: life and.
Speaker 6: Never see another soul again.
Speaker 5: You know, Like I kind of flip lot between the
Speaker 5: two extremes, and I'm trying to, like, you know, find
Speaker 5: a balance between the two. But so often, you know,
Speaker 5: I feel hold in this direction of it's like intense
Speaker 5: ambitious kind of like success, you know, and sometimes I'm
Speaker 5: just like I want to crawl back into the womb.
Speaker 4: Man just thinking about your career and ambition and what
Speaker 4: you want, like if you if there was like no
Speaker 4: barrier to entry, no money issues, anything like how famous
Speaker 4: do you want to be?
Speaker 5: I can tell you right now that I care more
Speaker 5: about and this is something I like work on with
Speaker 5: my therapist. But ever since I was a little kid,
Speaker 5: I've always had this like I don't know, like complex
Speaker 5: maybe about being respected. I really just want, like I
Speaker 5: want to die knowing I've been I've made decent enough
Speaker 5: art to be considered a true artist.
Speaker 6: That is what I want and I.
Speaker 5: Still want it, and I you know, part of me
Speaker 5: is just like who cares? Just quit, like just put
Speaker 5: out this album. It's so stressful promoting an album and
Speaker 5: like pouring in and especially this material is just gonna
Speaker 5: You're gonna hear me.
Speaker 6: Cry a lot.
Speaker 5: This isn't the first time, Like you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 5: be crying for the next two years talking about this album.
Speaker 5: But it's really a lot, and you know, like this morning,
Speaker 5: I was just like, I think I'm gonna do something
Speaker 5: else after this, like I'm done with music.
Speaker 6: It really depends on what day you catch me on.
Speaker 5: I mean, if things are going well, people really appreciate
Speaker 5: it and are moved by it, then maybe it'll carry
Speaker 5: me on to do another one.
Speaker 4: Is there like a marker of recognition, like something that
Speaker 4: you could finally reach, Like whether it's like getting like
Speaker 4: the Kennedy Center on ors, Like what's what would be
Speaker 4: the ultimate marker that lets you know that like I
Speaker 4: am a respected artist.
Speaker 5: That's a really good question because I don't really care
Speaker 5: about the awards. It's not that I think it would
Speaker 5: be if if some of my favorite artists heard my
Speaker 5: music or watch my videos or something, and we're like
Speaker 5: this is good. If Tom Waits was like I really
Speaker 5: like this stuff, I'd be like, I'm done. I checked out.
Speaker 5: I've checked out. My career is over now because I've succeeded.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I guess that. And sometimes that does happen,
Speaker 5: you know, like mean directors or other musicians that I
Speaker 5: really admire will write me, and.
Speaker 6: That means so much.
Speaker 5: That that means so much coming from people who whose
Speaker 5: art that I also really admire.
Speaker 2: So that gives you like a little like gas in
Speaker 2: your tank.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And but I think it's like that.
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, it's really what
Speaker 5: people the fans send me that makes it feel like
Speaker 5: I actually have some sort of value.
Speaker 6: Like what I'm doing isn't just for me.
Speaker 5: It's really to move people and like bring some beauty
Speaker 5: into the world where there wasn't some before.
Speaker 2: People actually like send you things, Oh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, my friend just sent me this message. They're a
Speaker 5: writer and they're talking about how the writing on the album.
Speaker 5: It felt a lot like there's some writing process where
Speaker 5: you'll write a draft and then you're kind of taking
Speaker 5: the razor out and you're sharpening it down so that
Speaker 5: each line is like razor sharp, gets to the point
Speaker 5: and kind of hits.
Speaker 6: You where it needs to hit you.
Speaker 5: And they were saying that this album really feels like that,
Speaker 5: you know, there's no extra fluff, and yeah, that really
Speaker 5: got to me, and I was like, maybe I'm finally
Speaker 5: getting closer to becoming a real artist.
Speaker 2: And your parents are artists, right, That's.
Speaker 6: Why I have such a complex.
Speaker 5: I have such fierce critics aside from myself, they're my
Speaker 5: biggest critics, especially my dad.
Speaker 2: Do you send him your work and then he gives
Speaker 2: you feedback?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 6: Yeah, and my dad will tell me how he feels.
Speaker 5: He sent me a legendary email once that I had
Speaker 5: made a draft in a song because I wasn't I
Speaker 5: was like, you know, I'm not totally sure I nailed
Speaker 5: this one. I just wanted to try, like a different technique,
Speaker 5: and so I tried this different style and I sent
Speaker 5: it to him and he wrote back, Oh great, let
Speaker 5: me just douse myself in gasoline and let himself on fire.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, wow, ouch. My dad is very dramatic
Speaker 5: and also hilarious. But he wasn't a fan, and so
Speaker 5: I was like, well, Okay.
Speaker 4: So do you change it at that point? Like, how
Speaker 4: do you know like when to go against what your dad?
Speaker 4: Because you know a lot of times like dads can
Speaker 4: be like God in our minds, Like do you go
Speaker 4: against God or do you just like do you?
Speaker 5: Well, the thing is, my dad's still a dad, and
Speaker 5: he's still you know, an old white man, but he
Speaker 5: is a genius artist.
Speaker 6: He's a genius. Like my dad is one of my
Speaker 6: favorite living.
Speaker 2: Artists with medium does He work in mostly.
Speaker 5: Draws, but he's one of those freaks that he could
Speaker 5: do anything. He decided all of a sudden to become
Speaker 5: a carpenter and made the most beautiful pieces.
Speaker 6: I mean he could do anything. Wow, very brilliant mind.
Speaker 5: Has no idea of the depths of his talent and
Speaker 5: needs to be constantly reassured.
Speaker 6: But he's a true genius.
Speaker 5: And so when he does tell me something, he'll say
Speaker 5: like this is low hanging fruit, or like this isn't
Speaker 5: your best material.
Speaker 6: It doesn't hold a candle to the other stuff. He's
Speaker 6: usually right, wow, So I'll rework it and rework it.
Speaker 5: And it's not like my dad is my main demographic.
Speaker 5: But I do think that if it's a good song,
Speaker 5: it kind of permeates demographics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 6: So if my.
Speaker 5: Parents are like, I really wish you wouldn't curse so much,
Speaker 5: I'm like, okay, disregard.
Speaker 6: But if they say something about like the.
Speaker 5: Emotional level of the song or something that really it's
Speaker 5: a real thought that they're moved by in some way,
Speaker 5: like it's it doesn't move me enough, or there's too
Speaker 5: many bells and whistles that sometimes that is a critique
Speaker 5: of my dad, and almost all the time he's right.
Speaker 2: That's incredible. What about your mom? What does she do?
Speaker 5: My mom is also an artist. She's worked for NBC
Speaker 5: doing mechanicals for a really long time and so she
Speaker 5: got really good at like layouts and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: So she does all the layouts for my albums and
Speaker 5: all my friend's albums.
Speaker 4: So getting back to the album, tell me about the
Speaker 4: thought behind the album cover.
Speaker 5: My friend Monica, Monica Murray, she came to my house
Speaker 5: and had this special film and it took nine shots
Speaker 5: to get this really beautiful photo of me. In my
Speaker 5: I have this red chair in my living room and
Speaker 5: that's where I meditate every day and I read and
Speaker 5: I have.
Speaker 6: My coffee it's like my favorite chair.
Speaker 5: When I moved into this house, I was in the
Speaker 5: depths of despair and my molm was like, just make
Speaker 5: yourself a corner. And so I made this corner with
Speaker 5: my chair and my plants and the rest of the
Speaker 5: house was pretty much empty, and I just sat in
Speaker 5: this chair for so long, so it was very special
Speaker 5: to me. And she took this brilliant photo of me
Speaker 5: in this chair and I had this fur coat on
Speaker 5: and I like no shirt underneath, like in my underwear,
Speaker 5: and it just was so beautiful. And I was obsessed
Speaker 5: with this photo and we were both like, this is
Speaker 5: so great. We got to do something with this. And
Speaker 5: the more I sat on it and the album was
Speaker 5: kind of coming together, I had this idea. I knew
Speaker 5: the album was going to be called The Art Forgetting,
Speaker 5: which is sort of a a poetic maybe a more
Speaker 5: poetic way of saying learning how to let go of things.
Speaker 5: At first, it was more of like the art of
Speaker 5: forgetting to protect yourself.
Speaker 6: Like I'm forgetting.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 5: But I knew it was called the Art Forgetting. And
Speaker 5: I sent you to Monica. I was like, we need
Speaker 5: to we need to make this album cover, like with
Speaker 5: this same photo but with the room on fire.
Speaker 6: And then it.
Speaker 5: Became like, okay, how were we going to do it?
Speaker 5: It Like, here's our budget, how can we light my
Speaker 5: living room ondifire?
Speaker 6: And it was such a labor of love.
Speaker 5: Like my neighbor Andy Flores is a brilliant artist herself,
Speaker 5: and Andy and Monica and our builder front Tory came
Speaker 5: came over and we made a plan to rebuild my
Speaker 5: living room.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: So we rebuilt the living room and I happen to
Speaker 5: have a warehouse in the back of my yard that
Speaker 5: my friends use and sweet the warehouse built the set.
Speaker 5: It was like identical to my actual living room. I
Speaker 5: was really going to light it on fire, and turns
Speaker 5: out like that's very difficult to do in a city.
Speaker 2: But why not just photoshop it?
Speaker 5: Well, okay, So the thing is I wanted it to
Speaker 5: be real. I was like, okay, I've gone this far
Speaker 5: in this album. I'm getting deep, like this is real
Speaker 5: for me. I wanted to all feel real everything, and
Speaker 5: so I was like, let's really light it on fire.
Speaker 5: And ultimately the reason why I didn't was it had
Speaker 5: nothing to do with the cost or how difficult it
Speaker 5: would be. But it had more to do with you
Speaker 5: can't control the lighting. What you see is what you get, like,
Speaker 5: you can only do it once.
Speaker 2: True.
Speaker 5: If the lighting isn't right, then you've just lit your
Speaker 5: entire set on fire and that's your album cover.
Speaker 6: And so I asked a bunch of people about this.
Speaker 5: So I asked, like the set designer what he does,
Speaker 5: and all of these people kind of said the same thing.
Speaker 5: They were like, you have to recreate the effects of
Speaker 5: the fire, and then you can add the flames on
Speaker 5: top and then it looks very real, and then you've
Speaker 5: got to you've got to use actual smoke. So it
Speaker 5: actually worked really well because we had control over the
Speaker 5: whole set.
Speaker 2: So why are you blindfolded?
Speaker 5: I find it so funny, like smoking a cigarette in
Speaker 5: a burning room. Your outcome is not good, but you
Speaker 5: don't want to see it, like you don't want to
Speaker 5: see it. And I like the idea that people can
Speaker 5: interpret it in their own way. You know, it can
Speaker 5: be funny, it could be despairing, it could be like suicidal.
Speaker 5: To me, it's funny because I also tend to laugh
Speaker 5: when I'm so despairingly sad. It's like, you come on,
Speaker 5: you've got to laugh. A little bit like this is pathetic,
Speaker 5: and I felt that way. I was like, this is
Speaker 5: hilariously pathetic to me, fur coat, and it's like blazingly.
Speaker 6: Hot in there, right. I don't know, I just.
Speaker 5: I'm always looking for, you know, ways to shake things
Speaker 5: up a little bit, like the athlete was all the cigarettes.
Speaker 4: I know you're such a great sense of humor. I
Speaker 4: love that, and I love that that's still intact.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I like anything that kind of makes
Speaker 5: people laugh and think at the same time.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here and then
Speaker 1: come back with more from Caroline Rose. We're back with
Speaker 1: the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with Caroline Rose. Before
Speaker 1: we jump back in, let's hear a demo from Caroline's
Speaker 1: new album, The Art of Forgetting. Here's the demo for
Speaker 1: her song love Song for Myself.
Speaker 8: If I a doorman, then im.
Speaker 3: Hanover, I'm exceptional.
Speaker 7: I am at times treasure on a hor with fall.
Speaker 3: If I'm a punching bird, then to get your face
Speaker 3: you are we wait fighter.
Speaker 7: Genuine coloring. If I'm lonelys, then I'm not lonely. If
Speaker 7: I'm suffering, deny am the moet.
Speaker 3: If I'm a deacent.
Speaker 9: The la two they from all the place, my final
Speaker 9: a hurricane.
Speaker 3: Coming to destroying. There are two the ritter of both things.
Speaker 8: Beautiful my bed, you see a little beauty within me.
Speaker 3: But until that, let's keep in time. I'll just be
Speaker 3: here for then that.
Speaker 2: When you sing this song by yourself live, how is
Speaker 2: it different than what appears on the album.
Speaker 5: Honestly, it doesn't. It doesn't feel that much different to me.
Speaker 5: I think there's a little more production value on the
Speaker 5: on the album. But I remember when I wrote it.
Speaker 5: I was I was out in the desert and it
Speaker 5: was just like a I brought this little nylon string
Speaker 5: and I was just laying on the ground, like looking
Speaker 5: up at the stars. It was very idyllic and dramatic
Speaker 5: and beautiful, and it was sort of like the clouds
Speaker 5: that part parted, and there's some golden hope for me
Speaker 5: that I was learning how to love myself again, like
Speaker 5: do nice things for myself. And I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 5: even though I feel like I have the training wheels
Speaker 5: and I don't remember how to totally love myself again,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna just pretend you kind of hear that.
Speaker 6: It's like if I'm a doormat.
Speaker 5: Then I'm hand woven, I'm an heirloom, I'm a treasure
Speaker 5: on the floor.
Speaker 2: You know, Oh that's so nice.
Speaker 5: If you can't be nice yourself, you can at least
Speaker 5: just fake it till you make it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, hopefully it worked.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it did work. It did work.
Speaker 4: Talk about your decision to distort your vocals. A lot
Speaker 4: of the songs your vocals are are distorted a little bit.
Speaker 4: I was curious does that change, does that change your performance,
Speaker 4: like how you actually perform the song, and does that
Speaker 4: ever allow you to say things that you wouldn't say
Speaker 4: without the distortion.
Speaker 5: I think a big part of a performance is the
Speaker 5: vibe of it, you know, the sonics and the characteristics
Speaker 5: that make you feel a certain way. And pretty early
Speaker 5: on I made a point that it it was important
Speaker 5: that I can play all of the songs by myself solo,
Speaker 5: even the ones that ended up sounding pretty produced, they
Speaker 5: can all be pledged, stripped down solo and be a
Speaker 5: complete song. And I really liked this idea of if
Speaker 5: you imagine the solo performance as this little small ball,
Speaker 5: and this little small ball that is fragile and vulnerable
Speaker 5: and at any moment could break and then these big
Speaker 5: moments of magnitude and Hi Phi Sonics, kind of like
Speaker 5: in Gulf does little little vulnerable nucleus. I kept seeing
Speaker 5: that come up over and over again, because you know,
Speaker 5: when you're feeling so bad, you do feel like you
Speaker 5: could you could combust at any moment. Like humans also,
Speaker 5: we have the ability to create measurably beautiful world even
Speaker 5: from the depths of our sadness. And I felt that
Speaker 5: even at the worst moment, I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 5: know I'm definitely toward the bottom of the well right now,
Speaker 5: but I know that's where I am, but just the
Speaker 5: view from the bottom is enough to kind of give
Speaker 5: me some hope. And that really fueled kind of the
Speaker 5: textures of the album. And I wanted to maintain that
Speaker 5: vulnerability but also have it feel triumphant and magnificent and
Speaker 5: at times really dreamy, to kind of emulate that feeling
Speaker 5: of being able to pull yourself out of despair and
Speaker 5: recognize your own power even when you're feeling weak.
Speaker 2: Totally, did you come up with all of the arrangements.
Speaker 5: The only things that I didn't come up with were
Speaker 5: the string arrangements, and those were done by my friend
Speaker 5: Talcats and Sammy Weisberg.
Speaker 2: The strings on, Jill Saysar's gorgeous.
Speaker 6: They're beautiful.
Speaker 5: They did such a great job, and they sent me
Speaker 5: like the rough of it, and then I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: what if it you know, what if it swells here
Speaker 5: and does this and you move this section here, and
Speaker 5: then it was like the next draft was done pretty
Speaker 5: much as simple as that.
Speaker 6: They really nailed it.
Speaker 4: How did that song come together? And how did you
Speaker 4: come up with the idea for the arrangement.
Speaker 6: On, Jill says. Jill says, yeah, well, Jill's my therapist.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I had been noodling on the on the piano
Speaker 5: at my parents' house when I visited, and I think
Speaker 5: I had been listening to a lot of classical music,
Speaker 5: a lot of w C and Satis. I really love
Speaker 5: all the French minimalists kind of composers. And I think
Speaker 5: I was just practicing and that the arpeggio that kind
Speaker 5: of is like three or four octave arpeggio.
Speaker 6: It sounded so beautiful.
Speaker 5: I was just like, Wow, I can't believe I can
Speaker 5: play this, because I've never really thought of myself as
Speaker 5: a piano player. But I think those early early years
Speaker 5: of piano lessons of somehow they've never left my hands.
Speaker 2: Very cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like impressed with myself. I'm like Dan,
Speaker 5: I didn't know I could play as well. But I
Speaker 5: really liked this sort of floral feel to it. It
Speaker 5: was floral and it reminded me of the beautiful times
Speaker 5: in this relationship that had ended. And it was like,
Speaker 5: you know, a relationship can end and it doesn't all
Speaker 5: have to be bad, like you can honor it. Even
Speaker 5: if you don't have a relationship with that person, you
Speaker 5: can still honor your time together.
Speaker 6: And that's what it felt like to me.
Speaker 5: It was like, you know, complicated time, but it was
Speaker 5: a beautiful time. And so I liked this idea that
Speaker 5: it was almost like a little movie soundtrack.
Speaker 2: It feels very cinematic.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it is cinematic. I do think when you
Speaker 5: put strings on something, it automatically sounds cinematic. But even
Speaker 5: if the strings were in there, I think this would
Speaker 5: be a cinematic sounding.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about in a way when you
Speaker 2: write a song, it's almost like, as an artist, if
Speaker 2: this is your job, you're in a way you're commodifying
Speaker 2: your feelings. How does that feel for you?
Speaker 5: This is a tough question for me because I am
Speaker 5: realizing more and more that if I want to make
Speaker 5: my best work, I have to put that out of
Speaker 5: my mind completely, and that includes not even involving anyone
Speaker 5: to do with business or thinking in a business manner.
Speaker 6: It cannot be involved.
Speaker 5: And that's something I actually learned on Superstar, which I
Speaker 5: made some choices that looking back on it, I'm like,
Speaker 5: would I have done that again?
Speaker 6: Knowing what I know now.
Speaker 5: The only regrets I've ever had in my career have
Speaker 5: been one I've made a business choice over a creative one,
Speaker 5: Hans Now, every single time that's been the the issue,
Speaker 5: and I did I made a point of not doing
Speaker 5: that this time, and I really think that the music
Speaker 5: benefits from that. So when it's made, I am selling
Speaker 5: a product and my whole team, I have a whole
Speaker 5: team that helps me sell a product and you know,
Speaker 5: essentially selling myself too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yourself and like your most vulnerable self.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, look, I wish you so much luck with the
Speaker 4: whole promo cycle of the album, And thank you so
Speaker 4: much for talking with me.
Speaker 6: Oh, thank you. It's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Caroline Rose. You can hear her latest album,
Speaker 1: The Artist Forgetting, along with our other favorite songs of hers,
Speaker 1: at broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,
Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. Broken
Speaker 1: Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Speaker 1: Ben Taliday, Nisha Venkat, Jordan McMillan, and Eric Sandler. Our
Speaker 1: editor is Sophie Credible. Broken Record is a production of
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin,
Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast
Speaker 1: subscription service that offers bonus content and unintrupted ad free
Speaker 1: listening for only four ninety nine a month. Look for
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like
Speaker 1: the show, remember to share, rate, and review us on
Speaker 1: your podcast staff. Our theme music expec. Kenny Beats. I'm
Speaker 1: justin Richmond.