WEBVTT - Caroline Rose 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.716 Pushkin. Singer songwriter Caroline Rose has always been a character. 0:00:24.316 --> 0:00:27.676 Her music videos often feature Caroline as the screwball lead 0:00:27.916 --> 0:00:33.316 navigating ambition, desire, and superstardom. Since her twenty twelve debut, 0:00:33.476 --> 0:00:36.876 Caroline's music has evolved from an American of folk sound 0:00:37.036 --> 0:00:40.756 to incorporating more elements of synth, heavy indie dance, and 0:00:40.836 --> 0:00:44.396 straight up pop. Now, on the verge of releasing her 0:00:44.476 --> 0:00:48.396 latest album, The Art of Forgetting, Caroline is shedding all 0:00:48.436 --> 0:00:51.876 of the past pretense and offering up an unflinching look 0:00:51.996 --> 0:00:55.316 into her inner life in the midst of personal turmoil. 0:00:56.276 --> 0:00:59.636 The result is an album packed with clever lyricism and 0:00:59.996 --> 0:01:05.236 soaring arrangements. Caroline produced the album and collaborated with Nick 0:01:05.276 --> 0:01:09.076 Sanborn of Silvanesso, who helped stack and distort her vocal. 0:01:10.116 --> 0:01:13.276 On today's episode, Broken Record producer Leah Rose talks to 0:01:13.396 --> 0:01:16.316 Caroline Rose about why she wanted to set her living 0:01:16.396 --> 0:01:19.036 room on fire for the sake of her album art. 0:01:19.756 --> 0:01:22.396 Caroline also shares an early demo of a song she 0:01:22.436 --> 0:01:26.356 wrote under a starry desert sky and explains how, aside 0:01:26.396 --> 0:01:33.996 from herself, Caroline's parents are her harshest critics. This is 0:01:34.076 --> 0:01:37.876 broken Record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. 0:01:38.836 --> 0:01:41.636 Here's Lea Rose with Caroline Rose. 0:01:42.236 --> 0:01:45.236 So let's talk about the new album. Yeah, where are 0:01:45.236 --> 0:01:45.956 you sitting with it? 0:01:46.036 --> 0:01:46.196 Now? 0:01:46.236 --> 0:01:48.836 You're done with it, You're ready to start talking about it. 0:01:49.116 --> 0:01:52.636 Hopefully eventually you're going to start touring it. How do 0:01:52.716 --> 0:01:55.956 you feel about it now as like a completed piece 0:01:55.996 --> 0:01:56.396 of work. 0:01:57.356 --> 0:02:00.156 Well, you know, you're catching me at an interesting time because, uh, 0:02:00.956 --> 0:02:04.196 you know, I wrote these songs a while ago now, 0:02:04.556 --> 0:02:07.876 and I wasn't sure what I was even going to 0:02:07.956 --> 0:02:10.356 do with them. I thought that they were just songs 0:02:10.356 --> 0:02:11.916 that I wrote to kind of help me through this 0:02:12.196 --> 0:02:15.476 difficult time, and then it ended up being pretty clear 0:02:15.516 --> 0:02:19.796 that it was an album and it's finally coming out, 0:02:19.876 --> 0:02:23.036 which I'm I'm really proud of it as a body 0:02:23.076 --> 0:02:26.556 of work. I think it's by far my strongest material 0:02:26.716 --> 0:02:29.716 and I'm really proud of that, and I think it's 0:02:29.756 --> 0:02:35.116 really beautiful. But there's something else that it's like, it's bittersweet, 0:02:35.116 --> 0:02:38.116 I think because it's really difficult for me to have 0:02:38.156 --> 0:02:41.556 to keep reliving this stuff, and I you know, now 0:02:41.556 --> 0:02:43.596 that it's finally coming out, I'm like, wow, did I 0:02:43.836 --> 0:02:47.276 just shoot myself on the foot putting out this really 0:02:47.276 --> 0:02:50.756 painful material. Yeah, that's on me though, you know, I 0:02:50.796 --> 0:02:54.116 did this to myself really, so it's a mixed bag. 0:02:55.396 --> 0:02:57.876 The album is very much it feels very much like 0:02:57.916 --> 0:03:01.996 it's connected to a situation, and a very painful situation. 0:03:02.476 --> 0:03:04.276 I don't know if it's a if it qualifies as 0:03:04.276 --> 0:03:07.836 a breakup album, but as far as just that situation goes, 0:03:07.916 --> 0:03:11.036 do you have enough distance from it? Like do you 0:03:11.036 --> 0:03:14.796 feel like you've healed and moved on from whatever spurred this? 0:03:15.676 --> 0:03:15.916 Yeah? 0:03:15.996 --> 0:03:18.636 Well, you know, it was a series of things that 0:03:18.756 --> 0:03:20.996 all happened at the same time, so there was like, 0:03:21.516 --> 0:03:25.236 you know, this like handful of one, two, three, four 0:03:25.276 --> 0:03:29.836 punches all at the same time that I was just like, uh, 0:03:29.876 --> 0:03:34.956 And I think the process of moving on it's not linear, 0:03:35.236 --> 0:03:37.316 Like you don't ever reach a place where you're. 0:03:37.076 --> 0:03:39.836 Like, oh, I'm completely moved. 0:03:39.596 --> 0:03:41.836 On from this. You know, it'll all there will always 0:03:41.836 --> 0:03:44.316 be tendrils of things that pull you back into something. 0:03:44.996 --> 0:03:49.036 And I find myself going in these waves of I'm oh, 0:03:49.116 --> 0:03:52.036 I am moved on. You know, I'm in a much better, 0:03:52.156 --> 0:03:55.276 happier place now. And for a while I kind of 0:03:55.316 --> 0:03:58.596 lost my sense of humor and that doesn't like, that 0:03:58.636 --> 0:04:00.156 doesn't feel like the case anymore. 0:04:01.156 --> 0:04:02.356 But there are moments. 0:04:02.476 --> 0:04:04.316 I mean, I had one this morning where I was 0:04:04.396 --> 0:04:08.676 like just riddled with anxiety and fear, and I'm like, 0:04:08.716 --> 0:04:12.276 what if I done I've made a huge mistake, just 0:04:12.356 --> 0:04:16.916 full of doubt, and then I get thrown back into 0:04:17.196 --> 0:04:19.436 you know, the lore of the past of like what 0:04:19.476 --> 0:04:22.316 I could have done differently, And I think it's always 0:04:22.356 --> 0:04:25.276 going to be this way of fascinating back and forth 0:04:25.436 --> 0:04:27.556 being like, oh, I'm in a good place, and then 0:04:27.596 --> 0:04:30.036 it's like duh, Yeah. 0:04:29.436 --> 0:04:31.676 I mean the fact that you're so honest with this 0:04:32.236 --> 0:04:33.996 new album, because that's what it feels like. It feels 0:04:34.036 --> 0:04:37.716 like it's like almost like a primal scream, like it's 0:04:38.036 --> 0:04:42.756 obviously you processing some sort of trauma, whether it was 0:04:42.796 --> 0:04:45.996 one or many traumas, and you like really like we're 0:04:45.996 --> 0:04:48.076 going through it with you, and you know, I, as 0:04:48.076 --> 0:04:51.476 a listener, I felt very connected to you and your pain. 0:04:52.316 --> 0:04:55.556 But I also you know, when I think about Caroline Rose, 0:04:55.596 --> 0:04:59.196 like I know you almost like a character. Is that 0:04:59.316 --> 0:05:02.996 actually a decision or how did you deal with putting 0:05:03.036 --> 0:05:06.436 forth a more honest and open version of yourself? 0:05:07.036 --> 0:05:07.236 Yeah? 0:05:07.356 --> 0:05:08.916 To be honest, it didn't really feel like good. 0:05:08.916 --> 0:05:09.116 True. 0:05:09.716 --> 0:05:13.636 It felt more more like when I was younger, uh, 0:05:14.156 --> 0:05:18.156 you know, even a teenager, and I felt really isolated 0:05:18.156 --> 0:05:20.436 in those times, you know, as like a young queer 0:05:20.516 --> 0:05:23.516 kid kind of trying to figure out who I was 0:05:23.796 --> 0:05:29.276 and where I belonged in the world. And these songs 0:05:29.396 --> 0:05:33.396 like it was really similar to that process of just 0:05:33.996 --> 0:05:37.236 you have to express yourself somehow or else it'll build up, 0:05:37.316 --> 0:05:39.956 and you know, bad things happen when you don't express 0:05:39.996 --> 0:05:43.316 yourself and you have all these feelings. It didn't feel 0:05:43.316 --> 0:05:46.116 like a choice because I had to get it out somehow. 0:05:46.196 --> 0:05:49.316 It was just you know, also, mind you, all of 0:05:49.316 --> 0:05:52.676 these things were happening in the midst of the most 0:05:52.676 --> 0:05:56.956 isolating time any of us will probably ever feel in 0:05:56.996 --> 0:05:59.876 our whole lives, like during the pandemic, and you know, 0:05:59.956 --> 0:06:03.356 being forced to kind of stay inside and be alone 0:06:03.516 --> 0:06:07.596 as much as possible, so you're just sitting just marinating 0:06:07.596 --> 0:06:11.276 in your own thoughts. So to be trying to heal 0:06:11.356 --> 0:06:16.396 from things, which requires looking inward in a very isolating time, 0:06:17.116 --> 0:06:19.356 you know, that's a lot of loneliness right there, and 0:06:19.396 --> 0:06:23.836 that's a lot of ripping some big band aids of like, Okay, well, 0:06:23.876 --> 0:06:26.076 if I'm going to improve my life and if I'm 0:06:26.116 --> 0:06:29.116 going to try and become a better person, improve my 0:06:29.196 --> 0:06:33.356 mental health and start to love myself, I have to 0:06:33.436 --> 0:06:37.836 go deep. And sometimes that's so scary. It's still scary. 0:06:38.556 --> 0:06:41.076 You know, the characters that you're talking about, they are 0:06:41.156 --> 0:06:44.596 still me. Yeah, And that was something that was probably 0:06:44.676 --> 0:06:49.396 my bad of not making that more clear that anytime 0:06:49.436 --> 0:06:51.036 I was like kind of putting on an act, it 0:06:51.116 --> 0:06:53.916 was like just a poking, fun a version of myself, 0:06:53.996 --> 0:06:57.916 like right, but this time there were no crutches because 0:06:58.156 --> 0:07:02.196 I wasn't really I didn't have any I didn't. 0:07:01.996 --> 0:07:05.076 Yeah, would the melodies come to you first? Or would 0:07:05.116 --> 0:07:06.756 the words come to you first? Like how was the 0:07:06.796 --> 0:07:08.836 actual construction of the songs happening? 0:07:09.316 --> 0:07:10.316 It's always different. 0:07:10.556 --> 0:07:14.196 I don't understand it, but you know, some things at work, 0:07:14.476 --> 0:07:17.036 some things at work in there, because sometimes you know 0:07:17.116 --> 0:07:20.556 the melody, I'll just be noodling on an instrument, the 0:07:20.596 --> 0:07:24.716 piano or guitar, which is so much fun because there's 0:07:24.716 --> 0:07:25.756 no gadgets involved. 0:07:25.796 --> 0:07:27.396 You just sit down, dress. 0:07:27.116 --> 0:07:29.396 A note and it makes a sound and then you 0:07:29.396 --> 0:07:33.836 can immediately there's no waiting, like you can just make 0:07:33.916 --> 0:07:38.196 something that sounds interesting, and there it is, and then 0:07:38.516 --> 0:07:42.036 the song is made. So sometimes it's as simple as that, 0:07:42.156 --> 0:07:45.196 as you just sit down, you hear something and then 0:07:45.476 --> 0:07:48.196 it's like pulling a thread and you're like, this makes 0:07:48.236 --> 0:07:51.356 me feel this way, and this other chord makes me 0:07:51.396 --> 0:07:55.436 feel this way, and you just pull the thread more 0:07:55.436 --> 0:07:57.476 and more until it's like, oh. 0:07:57.076 --> 0:08:01.036 This is what this is about and it's so cool. Yeah. 0:08:01.076 --> 0:08:04.236 And other times, you know it, there'll be a line. 0:08:04.276 --> 0:08:08.036 I'll be like, oh, this is such a great line. 0:08:08.236 --> 0:08:10.076 You have some great line on this album. 0:08:10.436 --> 0:08:10.956 Oh thank you. 0:08:11.876 --> 0:08:13.596 The first one that stood out to me just because 0:08:13.636 --> 0:08:17.276 the sequence of the album was in Miami, where you're 0:08:17.276 --> 0:08:20.036 talking back and forth with your mom in the song 0:08:21.036 --> 0:08:23.356 your father and I were in the last stage of 0:08:23.356 --> 0:08:26.076 our lives. So for God's sake, no more talk about 0:08:26.116 --> 0:08:27.236 you imagine dying. 0:08:27.796 --> 0:08:30.196 Yeah, you know you're going through. 0:08:30.036 --> 0:08:33.236 All these like woes and troubles, but then you hear 0:08:33.716 --> 0:08:36.996 what your mom's going through, what she's facing, and she's like, look, 0:08:37.076 --> 0:08:37.956 I'm facing death. 0:08:38.596 --> 0:08:41.396 Yeah, I mean, and that's real talk right there. That 0:08:41.836 --> 0:08:44.876 I feel like if only we all did that when 0:08:44.876 --> 0:08:47.876 we were having kind of getting sucked into our own 0:08:47.876 --> 0:08:50.956 little worlds. And just thought about the fact that this 0:08:51.036 --> 0:08:56.596 isn't This doesn't last forever. You know, yeah, everything is impermanent, 0:08:56.636 --> 0:09:00.396 and we all have an expiration date, including the good 0:09:00.396 --> 0:09:03.236 times and the bad times, like they all have an 0:09:03.276 --> 0:09:08.396 expiration date. So I need that reminder. And at that time, 0:09:08.636 --> 0:09:11.076 when I was writing that song, I didn't have a 0:09:11.116 --> 0:09:14.196 lot of tools to remind. 0:09:13.796 --> 0:09:16.236 Myself of that. I know, it's obvious. 0:09:15.916 --> 0:09:17.836 And now I look back, I'm like, this stuff is 0:09:17.836 --> 0:09:21.116 so obvious, but for people like me at least to 0:09:21.956 --> 0:09:28.636 get sucked into the stream of busyness and things thrown 0:09:28.676 --> 0:09:33.796 at you and expectations and you know, ambition, right. 0:09:34.236 --> 0:09:36.396 Is that an actual conversation you've had with your mom. 0:09:36.556 --> 0:09:38.916 It's almost, word for word, a real conversation. 0:09:39.036 --> 0:09:42.516 And when I was making this and when the album 0:09:42.596 --> 0:09:47.476 kind of started revealing itself as a complete thing, I 0:09:47.516 --> 0:09:49.956 did have this moment where I was like, I haven't 0:09:49.996 --> 0:09:52.996 held back with myself at all. I'm not there's no 0:09:53.116 --> 0:09:55.956 facade here, and I'm like, if I'm going to put 0:09:55.956 --> 0:09:58.636 this out, I might as well go for it, like 0:09:58.716 --> 0:10:00.796 go deep and make it as real as possible. And 0:10:01.236 --> 0:10:04.196 I mean, man, so much of this is real. If 0:10:04.196 --> 0:10:06.316 there's any quotes in there, like I don't know if 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:08.916 you have the lyrics sheets and stuff, but sometimes I'll 0:10:08.956 --> 0:10:12.396 have little conversation. You'll see quotes where I'm having a 0:10:12.396 --> 0:10:15.316 conversation with myself and these will be like real things 0:10:15.316 --> 0:10:18.916 that I'm talking the voice in my head is saying, 0:10:19.156 --> 0:10:21.716 and you know, sometimes the voice in my head is 0:10:21.756 --> 0:10:22.836 like the most cruel. 0:10:23.956 --> 0:10:27.356 Yeah, once you started to figure out that this might 0:10:27.436 --> 0:10:30.676 actually be an album, how did you figure out what 0:10:31.036 --> 0:10:31.516 went where? 0:10:32.236 --> 0:10:32.516 Man? 0:10:32.516 --> 0:10:35.996 Sequencing is probably my favorite part of the album making process. 0:10:36.396 --> 0:10:39.036 You can craft the journey that people are going on, 0:10:39.836 --> 0:10:43.276 and you know, normally I will put the more upbeat 0:10:43.316 --> 0:10:46.276 stuff up front and then and then make it like 0:10:46.396 --> 0:10:49.076 kind of heavier as you go along, or more theorial 0:10:49.196 --> 0:10:52.796 or something, and sort of the opposite on this one. 0:10:53.076 --> 0:10:54.636 I well, first. 0:10:54.356 --> 0:10:56.716 Off, I knew that Love Love Friend was gonna be 0:10:56.756 --> 0:10:59.876 the first song. I wrote that really quickly. It just 0:10:59.996 --> 0:11:03.956 really I don't know it again, the magic I don't 0:11:03.956 --> 0:11:08.636 ask questions, but it just kind of wrote itself. It 0:11:08.676 --> 0:11:11.676 was just and I was like, this is the beginning 0:11:11.716 --> 0:11:14.836 of some sort of journey. It just felt like the 0:11:14.916 --> 0:11:19.916 beginning and it kind of captured the mystery in the longing. 0:11:20.836 --> 0:11:24.156 But to me, there's a sort of hope in it. 0:11:24.196 --> 0:11:27.996 I'll be a mixed in with some pain. 0:11:29.396 --> 0:11:29.636 Yeah. 0:11:29.676 --> 0:11:32.156 What I thought was interesting about that song, Like, it's 0:11:32.156 --> 0:11:34.796 definitely I mean, it is the perfect first song because 0:11:34.836 --> 0:11:38.796 it makes such an emotional statement and sets the tone 0:11:38.916 --> 0:11:41.916 for the album. And you start out it's kind of 0:11:41.956 --> 0:11:44.716 like making a personal statement, and I feel like you're 0:11:44.756 --> 0:11:48.716 advocating for yourself. I'm not your lover, I'm not your mother, 0:11:49.116 --> 0:11:52.596 I'm not your son, And it feels like you're trying 0:11:52.716 --> 0:11:56.476 to figure out how you want to be treated in 0:11:56.516 --> 0:12:00.596 an intimate relationship. And you have this love on one 0:12:00.716 --> 0:12:03.756 end in your life that is unconditional, that comes from 0:12:03.836 --> 0:12:07.276 your family. And there's all these like really sweet, beautiful 0:12:07.316 --> 0:12:11.476 voicemails sprinkled throughout from I think it's your grandma. Yeah, 0:12:11.516 --> 0:12:13.916 Who's like I love you, How are you doing? Are 0:12:13.916 --> 0:12:17.076 you eating? Like these really like beautiful basic questions. She 0:12:17.156 --> 0:12:19.996 just wants to know you're okay. And then you, you know, 0:12:20.076 --> 0:12:22.756 have the conversation with your mom and you know, mention 0:12:22.836 --> 0:12:26.076 of your family, which is just like this strong, unconditional love. 0:12:27.036 --> 0:12:30.036 Yeah, oh man, that makes me, it makes me like 0:12:30.116 --> 0:12:35.436 kind of weepy. Well, I should also mention my my 0:12:35.516 --> 0:12:40.236 grandma like pass away the other day. Oh my gosh, 0:12:40.316 --> 0:12:41.956 her voicemails are like all over it. 0:12:42.596 --> 0:12:48.116 I'm so sorry. She sounded just like the sweetest. 0:12:47.316 --> 0:12:49.876 Yeah, she she really was. She's like kind of a 0:12:49.956 --> 0:12:53.436 rock in her family. But even just thinking about my family, 0:12:53.476 --> 0:12:56.556 we're all so close and going through a hard time 0:12:56.636 --> 0:12:59.356 and having a family that really cares for one another. 0:13:00.556 --> 0:13:05.156 It's such a beautiful privilege. I just feel so grateful 0:13:05.476 --> 0:13:06.636 for my family. 0:13:07.196 --> 0:13:07.596 Mm hmm. 0:13:08.836 --> 0:13:12.836 And I don't know this album, You're right, it captures 0:13:12.876 --> 0:13:15.956 a certain moment in time, And I don't really consider 0:13:15.956 --> 0:13:17.996 it a breakup album because that was just like one 0:13:18.076 --> 0:13:21.356 of the things, one of the things during that time. 0:13:21.756 --> 0:13:24.956 But to me, it's like it just will always remind 0:13:24.996 --> 0:13:29.356 me of a time when I was in pieces and myself, 0:13:29.996 --> 0:13:33.156 along with my family and my close friends like helped 0:13:33.276 --> 0:13:34.316 put me back together. 0:13:36.476 --> 0:13:36.676 Yeah. 0:13:36.716 --> 0:13:39.796 The other line that really stood out to me is 0:13:40.476 --> 0:13:43.276 on the last song on the album, on where Do 0:13:43.356 --> 0:13:46.076 I Go From Here, which is a great last song title, 0:13:47.116 --> 0:13:49.676 everybody wants a seat at the table. I just want 0:13:49.716 --> 0:13:52.916 to be swaddled and rocked in a cradle. Where did 0:13:52.956 --> 0:13:53.596 that come from? 0:13:54.036 --> 0:13:58.556 I think I vacillate between being really ambitious about something 0:13:58.596 --> 0:14:00.356 where I was like, oh, I could make you know, 0:14:00.916 --> 0:14:03.156 why do this when you can make something even bigger 0:14:03.236 --> 0:14:07.516 and greater and like it could be like legendary. And 0:14:07.556 --> 0:14:10.316 then the other side of the spectrum is like I 0:14:10.436 --> 0:14:14.036 just want to grow a garden, have my quiet little 0:14:14.076 --> 0:14:14.916 life and. 0:14:15.596 --> 0:14:17.076 Never see another soul again. 0:14:17.476 --> 0:14:19.556 You know, Like I kind of flip lot between the 0:14:19.596 --> 0:14:22.516 two extremes, and I'm trying to, like, you know, find 0:14:22.516 --> 0:14:26.316 a balance between the two. But so often, you know, 0:14:26.396 --> 0:14:31.316 I feel hold in this direction of it's like intense 0:14:32.396 --> 0:14:37.276 ambitious kind of like success, you know, and sometimes I'm 0:14:37.356 --> 0:14:39.636 just like I want to crawl back into the womb. 0:14:41.316 --> 0:14:44.956 Man just thinking about your career and ambition and what 0:14:45.116 --> 0:14:47.596 you want, like if you if there was like no 0:14:47.716 --> 0:14:52.796 barrier to entry, no money issues, anything like how famous 0:14:52.836 --> 0:14:53.396 do you want to be? 0:14:54.076 --> 0:14:56.396 I can tell you right now that I care more 0:14:56.436 --> 0:14:58.916 about and this is something I like work on with 0:14:58.956 --> 0:15:01.636 my therapist. But ever since I was a little kid, 0:15:01.676 --> 0:15:04.676 I've always had this like I don't know, like complex 0:15:04.716 --> 0:15:10.756 maybe about being respected. I really just want, like I 0:15:10.796 --> 0:15:15.036 want to die knowing I've been I've made decent enough 0:15:15.156 --> 0:15:17.236 art to be considered a true artist. 0:15:17.636 --> 0:15:19.676 That is what I want and I. 0:15:19.636 --> 0:15:21.756 Still want it, and I you know, part of me 0:15:21.876 --> 0:15:25.636 is just like who cares? Just quit, like just put 0:15:25.636 --> 0:15:29.116 out this album. It's so stressful promoting an album and 0:15:29.156 --> 0:15:32.396 like pouring in and especially this material is just gonna 0:15:32.836 --> 0:15:33.556 You're gonna hear me. 0:15:33.516 --> 0:15:34.076 Cry a lot. 0:15:34.156 --> 0:15:36.076 This isn't the first time, Like you know, I'm gonna 0:15:36.076 --> 0:15:38.636 be crying for the next two years talking about this album. 0:15:39.156 --> 0:15:42.276 But it's really a lot, and you know, like this morning, 0:15:42.396 --> 0:15:44.316 I was just like, I think I'm gonna do something 0:15:44.316 --> 0:15:46.276 else after this, like I'm done with music. 0:15:46.756 --> 0:15:48.516 It really depends on what day you catch me on. 0:15:48.836 --> 0:15:52.236 I mean, if things are going well, people really appreciate 0:15:52.316 --> 0:15:55.796 it and are moved by it, then maybe it'll carry 0:15:55.836 --> 0:15:57.516 me on to do another one. 0:15:58.196 --> 0:16:03.236 Is there like a marker of recognition, like something that 0:16:03.276 --> 0:16:05.876 you could finally reach, Like whether it's like getting like 0:16:06.356 --> 0:16:08.916 the Kennedy Center on ors, Like what's what would be 0:16:08.916 --> 0:16:11.516 the ultimate marker that lets you know that like I 0:16:11.556 --> 0:16:12.916 am a respected artist. 0:16:13.556 --> 0:16:17.636 That's a really good question because I don't really care 0:16:17.676 --> 0:16:21.116 about the awards. It's not that I think it would 0:16:21.156 --> 0:16:24.796 be if if some of my favorite artists heard my 0:16:24.916 --> 0:16:27.676 music or watch my videos or something, and we're like 0:16:28.276 --> 0:16:31.556 this is good. If Tom Waits was like I really 0:16:31.636 --> 0:16:35.356 like this stuff, I'd be like, I'm done. I checked out. 0:16:35.356 --> 0:16:38.956 I've checked out. My career is over now because I've succeeded. 0:16:39.916 --> 0:16:42.556 But yeah, I guess that. And sometimes that does happen, 0:16:42.636 --> 0:16:47.076 you know, like mean directors or other musicians that I 0:16:47.156 --> 0:16:50.396 really admire will write me, and. 0:16:50.156 --> 0:16:51.196 That means so much. 0:16:51.556 --> 0:16:53.916 That that means so much coming from people who whose 0:16:53.996 --> 0:16:56.676 art that I also really admire. 0:16:56.676 --> 0:16:58.476 So that gives you like a little like gas in 0:16:58.516 --> 0:16:59.036 your tank. 0:16:59.356 --> 0:17:01.996 Yeah, And but I think it's like that. 0:17:02.316 --> 0:17:04.236 But at the end of the day, it's really what 0:17:04.316 --> 0:17:07.436 people the fans send me that makes it feel like 0:17:07.516 --> 0:17:09.036 I actually have some sort of value. 0:17:09.396 --> 0:17:11.276 Like what I'm doing isn't just for me. 0:17:11.516 --> 0:17:15.356 It's really to move people and like bring some beauty 0:17:15.356 --> 0:17:18.156 into the world where there wasn't some before. 0:17:18.676 --> 0:17:21.236 People actually like send you things, Oh. 0:17:21.156 --> 0:17:24.636 Yeah, my friend just sent me this message. They're a 0:17:24.676 --> 0:17:28.916 writer and they're talking about how the writing on the album. 0:17:29.516 --> 0:17:34.156 It felt a lot like there's some writing process where 0:17:34.236 --> 0:17:37.436 you'll write a draft and then you're kind of taking 0:17:37.476 --> 0:17:39.836 the razor out and you're sharpening it down so that 0:17:39.916 --> 0:17:43.316 each line is like razor sharp, gets to the point 0:17:43.356 --> 0:17:44.796 and kind of hits. 0:17:44.596 --> 0:17:45.796 You where it needs to hit you. 0:17:46.436 --> 0:17:51.276 And they were saying that this album really feels like that, 0:17:52.596 --> 0:17:55.676 you know, there's no extra fluff, and yeah, that really 0:17:55.716 --> 0:17:58.516 got to me, and I was like, maybe I'm finally 0:17:58.556 --> 0:18:00.956 getting closer to becoming a real artist. 0:18:04.956 --> 0:18:07.636 And your parents are artists, right, That's. 0:18:07.476 --> 0:18:08.756 Why I have such a complex. 0:18:09.556 --> 0:18:13.516 I have such fierce critics aside from myself, they're my 0:18:13.556 --> 0:18:15.596 biggest critics, especially my dad. 0:18:15.956 --> 0:18:17.636 Do you send him your work and then he gives 0:18:17.636 --> 0:18:18.236 you feedback? 0:18:18.436 --> 0:18:18.596 Oh? 0:18:18.676 --> 0:18:20.956 Yeah, and my dad will tell me how he feels. 0:18:21.076 --> 0:18:25.196 He sent me a legendary email once that I had 0:18:25.236 --> 0:18:27.116 made a draft in a song because I wasn't I 0:18:27.156 --> 0:18:29.556 was like, you know, I'm not totally sure I nailed 0:18:29.556 --> 0:18:33.796 this one. I just wanted to try, like a different technique, 0:18:33.836 --> 0:18:38.196 and so I tried this different style and I sent 0:18:38.316 --> 0:18:42.276 it to him and he wrote back, Oh great, let 0:18:42.316 --> 0:18:45.916 me just douse myself in gasoline and let himself on fire. 0:18:46.556 --> 0:18:51.076 And I'm like, wow, ouch. My dad is very dramatic 0:18:52.236 --> 0:18:56.356 and also hilarious. But he wasn't a fan, and so 0:18:56.436 --> 0:18:58.116 I was like, well, Okay. 0:18:58.436 --> 0:19:00.116 So do you change it at that point? Like, how 0:19:00.116 --> 0:19:02.556 do you know like when to go against what your dad? 0:19:02.596 --> 0:19:04.396 Because you know a lot of times like dads can 0:19:04.436 --> 0:19:06.916 be like God in our minds, Like do you go 0:19:07.036 --> 0:19:08.996 against God or do you just like do you? 0:19:10.076 --> 0:19:13.316 Well, the thing is, my dad's still a dad, and 0:19:13.356 --> 0:19:16.436 he's still you know, an old white man, but he 0:19:16.516 --> 0:19:17.636 is a genius artist. 0:19:17.876 --> 0:19:21.316 He's a genius. Like my dad is one of my 0:19:21.396 --> 0:19:22.236 favorite living. 0:19:22.116 --> 0:19:25.596 Artists with medium does He work in mostly. 0:19:25.316 --> 0:19:28.636 Draws, but he's one of those freaks that he could 0:19:28.676 --> 0:19:32.676 do anything. He decided all of a sudden to become 0:19:32.716 --> 0:19:36.436 a carpenter and made the most beautiful pieces. 0:19:36.476 --> 0:19:40.356 I mean he could do anything. Wow, very brilliant mind. 0:19:40.956 --> 0:19:43.996 Has no idea of the depths of his talent and 0:19:44.156 --> 0:19:45.956 needs to be constantly reassured. 0:19:46.076 --> 0:19:47.636 But he's a true genius. 0:19:47.676 --> 0:19:50.596 And so when he does tell me something, he'll say 0:19:50.636 --> 0:19:52.476 like this is low hanging fruit, or like this isn't 0:19:52.476 --> 0:19:53.356 your best material. 0:19:53.756 --> 0:19:56.236 It doesn't hold a candle to the other stuff. He's 0:19:56.316 --> 0:20:00.636 usually right, wow, So I'll rework it and rework it. 0:20:00.716 --> 0:20:04.076 And it's not like my dad is my main demographic. 0:20:04.156 --> 0:20:06.716 But I do think that if it's a good song, 0:20:07.156 --> 0:20:10.596 it kind of permeates demographics. 0:20:11.276 --> 0:20:12.396 Yeah, that's true. 0:20:12.516 --> 0:20:13.756 So if my. 0:20:13.716 --> 0:20:16.956 Parents are like, I really wish you wouldn't curse so much, 0:20:17.036 --> 0:20:18.316 I'm like, okay, disregard. 0:20:18.716 --> 0:20:21.516 But if they say something about like the. 0:20:21.476 --> 0:20:25.116 Emotional level of the song or something that really it's 0:20:25.116 --> 0:20:28.236 a real thought that they're moved by in some way, 0:20:28.636 --> 0:20:31.996 like it's it doesn't move me enough, or there's too 0:20:32.036 --> 0:20:35.916 many bells and whistles that sometimes that is a critique 0:20:35.916 --> 0:20:38.236 of my dad, and almost all the time he's right. 0:20:38.556 --> 0:20:40.916 That's incredible. What about your mom? What does she do? 0:20:41.516 --> 0:20:44.316 My mom is also an artist. She's worked for NBC 0:20:44.676 --> 0:20:47.196 doing mechanicals for a really long time and so she 0:20:47.276 --> 0:20:49.956 got really good at like layouts and stuff like that. 0:20:50.036 --> 0:20:52.636 So she does all the layouts for my albums and 0:20:53.196 --> 0:20:55.116 all my friend's albums. 0:20:55.836 --> 0:20:58.516 So getting back to the album, tell me about the 0:20:58.556 --> 0:20:59.636 thought behind the album cover. 0:21:00.396 --> 0:21:03.716 My friend Monica, Monica Murray, she came to my house 0:21:03.756 --> 0:21:10.356 and had this special film and it took nine shots 0:21:10.396 --> 0:21:15.116 to get this really beautiful photo of me. In my 0:21:15.716 --> 0:21:18.516 I have this red chair in my living room and 0:21:18.556 --> 0:21:21.116 that's where I meditate every day and I read and 0:21:21.116 --> 0:21:21.316 I have. 0:21:21.396 --> 0:21:23.356