1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Singer songwriter Caroline Rose has always been a character. 2 00:00:24,316 --> 00:00:27,676 Speaker 1: Her music videos often feature Caroline as the screwball lead 3 00:00:27,916 --> 00:00:33,316 Speaker 1: navigating ambition, desire, and superstardom. Since her twenty twelve debut, 4 00:00:33,476 --> 00:00:36,876 Speaker 1: Caroline's music has evolved from an American of folk sound 5 00:00:37,036 --> 00:00:40,756 Speaker 1: to incorporating more elements of synth, heavy indie dance, and 6 00:00:40,836 --> 00:00:44,396 Speaker 1: straight up pop. Now, on the verge of releasing her 7 00:00:44,476 --> 00:00:48,396 Speaker 1: latest album, The Art of Forgetting, Caroline is shedding all 8 00:00:48,436 --> 00:00:51,876 Speaker 1: of the past pretense and offering up an unflinching look 9 00:00:51,996 --> 00:00:55,316 Speaker 1: into her inner life in the midst of personal turmoil. 10 00:00:56,276 --> 00:00:59,636 Speaker 1: The result is an album packed with clever lyricism and 11 00:00:59,996 --> 00:01:05,236 Speaker 1: soaring arrangements. Caroline produced the album and collaborated with Nick 12 00:01:05,276 --> 00:01:09,076 Speaker 1: Sanborn of Silvanesso, who helped stack and distort her vocal. 13 00:01:10,116 --> 00:01:13,276 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Broken Record producer Leah Rose talks to 14 00:01:13,396 --> 00:01:16,316 Speaker 1: Caroline Rose about why she wanted to set her living 15 00:01:16,396 --> 00:01:19,036 Speaker 1: room on fire for the sake of her album art. 16 00:01:19,756 --> 00:01:22,396 Speaker 1: Caroline also shares an early demo of a song she 17 00:01:22,436 --> 00:01:26,356 Speaker 1: wrote under a starry desert sky and explains how, aside 18 00:01:26,396 --> 00:01:33,996 Speaker 1: from herself, Caroline's parents are her harshest critics. This is 19 00:01:34,076 --> 00:01:37,876 Speaker 1: broken Record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. 20 00:01:38,836 --> 00:01:41,636 Speaker 1: Here's Lea Rose with Caroline Rose. 21 00:01:42,236 --> 00:01:45,236 Speaker 2: So let's talk about the new album. Yeah, where are 22 00:01:45,236 --> 00:01:45,956 Speaker 2: you sitting with it? 23 00:01:46,036 --> 00:01:46,196 Speaker 3: Now? 24 00:01:46,236 --> 00:01:48,836 Speaker 4: You're done with it, You're ready to start talking about it. 25 00:01:49,116 --> 00:01:52,636 Speaker 4: Hopefully eventually you're going to start touring it. How do 26 00:01:52,716 --> 00:01:55,956 Speaker 4: you feel about it now as like a completed piece 27 00:01:55,996 --> 00:01:56,396 Speaker 4: of work. 28 00:01:57,356 --> 00:02:00,156 Speaker 5: Well, you know, you're catching me at an interesting time because, uh, 29 00:02:00,956 --> 00:02:04,196 Speaker 5: you know, I wrote these songs a while ago now, 30 00:02:04,556 --> 00:02:07,876 Speaker 5: and I wasn't sure what I was even going to 31 00:02:07,956 --> 00:02:10,356 Speaker 5: do with them. I thought that they were just songs 32 00:02:10,356 --> 00:02:11,916 Speaker 5: that I wrote to kind of help me through this 33 00:02:12,196 --> 00:02:15,476 Speaker 5: difficult time, and then it ended up being pretty clear 34 00:02:15,516 --> 00:02:19,796 Speaker 5: that it was an album and it's finally coming out, 35 00:02:19,876 --> 00:02:23,036 Speaker 5: which I'm I'm really proud of it as a body 36 00:02:23,076 --> 00:02:26,556 Speaker 5: of work. I think it's by far my strongest material 37 00:02:26,716 --> 00:02:29,716 Speaker 5: and I'm really proud of that, and I think it's 38 00:02:29,756 --> 00:02:35,116 Speaker 5: really beautiful. But there's something else that it's like, it's bittersweet, 39 00:02:35,116 --> 00:02:38,116 Speaker 5: I think because it's really difficult for me to have 40 00:02:38,156 --> 00:02:41,556 Speaker 5: to keep reliving this stuff, and I you know, now 41 00:02:41,556 --> 00:02:43,596 Speaker 5: that it's finally coming out, I'm like, wow, did I 42 00:02:43,836 --> 00:02:47,276 Speaker 5: just shoot myself on the foot putting out this really 43 00:02:47,276 --> 00:02:50,756 Speaker 5: painful material. Yeah, that's on me though, you know, I 44 00:02:50,796 --> 00:02:54,116 Speaker 5: did this to myself really, so it's a mixed bag. 45 00:02:55,396 --> 00:02:57,876 Speaker 4: The album is very much it feels very much like 46 00:02:57,916 --> 00:03:01,996 Speaker 4: it's connected to a situation, and a very painful situation. 47 00:03:02,476 --> 00:03:04,276 Speaker 4: I don't know if it's a if it qualifies as 48 00:03:04,276 --> 00:03:07,836 Speaker 4: a breakup album, but as far as just that situation goes, 49 00:03:07,916 --> 00:03:11,036 Speaker 4: do you have enough distance from it? Like do you 50 00:03:11,036 --> 00:03:14,796 Speaker 4: feel like you've healed and moved on from whatever spurred this? 51 00:03:15,676 --> 00:03:15,916 Speaker 6: Yeah? 52 00:03:15,996 --> 00:03:18,636 Speaker 5: Well, you know, it was a series of things that 53 00:03:18,756 --> 00:03:20,996 Speaker 5: all happened at the same time, so there was like, 54 00:03:21,516 --> 00:03:25,236 Speaker 5: you know, this like handful of one, two, three, four 55 00:03:25,276 --> 00:03:29,836 Speaker 5: punches all at the same time that I was just like, uh, 56 00:03:29,876 --> 00:03:34,956 Speaker 5: And I think the process of moving on it's not linear, 57 00:03:35,236 --> 00:03:37,316 Speaker 5: Like you don't ever reach a place where you're. 58 00:03:37,076 --> 00:03:39,836 Speaker 6: Like, oh, I'm completely moved. 59 00:03:39,596 --> 00:03:41,836 Speaker 5: On from this. You know, it'll all there will always 60 00:03:41,836 --> 00:03:44,316 Speaker 5: be tendrils of things that pull you back into something. 61 00:03:44,996 --> 00:03:49,036 Speaker 5: And I find myself going in these waves of I'm oh, 62 00:03:49,116 --> 00:03:52,036 Speaker 5: I am moved on. You know, I'm in a much better, 63 00:03:52,156 --> 00:03:55,276 Speaker 5: happier place now. And for a while I kind of 64 00:03:55,316 --> 00:03:58,596 Speaker 5: lost my sense of humor and that doesn't like, that 65 00:03:58,636 --> 00:04:00,156 Speaker 5: doesn't feel like the case anymore. 66 00:04:01,156 --> 00:04:02,356 Speaker 6: But there are moments. 67 00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:04,316 Speaker 5: I mean, I had one this morning where I was 68 00:04:04,396 --> 00:04:08,676 Speaker 5: like just riddled with anxiety and fear, and I'm like, 69 00:04:08,716 --> 00:04:12,276 Speaker 5: what if I done I've made a huge mistake, just 70 00:04:12,356 --> 00:04:16,916 Speaker 5: full of doubt, and then I get thrown back into 71 00:04:17,196 --> 00:04:19,436 Speaker 5: you know, the lore of the past of like what 72 00:04:19,476 --> 00:04:22,316 Speaker 5: I could have done differently, And I think it's always 73 00:04:22,356 --> 00:04:25,276 Speaker 5: going to be this way of fascinating back and forth 74 00:04:25,436 --> 00:04:27,556 Speaker 5: being like, oh, I'm in a good place, and then 75 00:04:27,596 --> 00:04:30,036 Speaker 5: it's like duh, Yeah. 76 00:04:29,436 --> 00:04:31,676 Speaker 4: I mean the fact that you're so honest with this 77 00:04:32,236 --> 00:04:33,996 Speaker 4: new album, because that's what it feels like. It feels 78 00:04:34,036 --> 00:04:37,716 Speaker 4: like it's like almost like a primal scream, like it's 79 00:04:38,036 --> 00:04:42,756 Speaker 4: obviously you processing some sort of trauma, whether it was 80 00:04:42,796 --> 00:04:45,996 Speaker 4: one or many traumas, and you like really like we're 81 00:04:45,996 --> 00:04:48,076 Speaker 4: going through it with you, and you know, I, as 82 00:04:48,076 --> 00:04:51,476 Speaker 4: a listener, I felt very connected to you and your pain. 83 00:04:52,316 --> 00:04:55,556 Speaker 4: But I also you know, when I think about Caroline Rose, 84 00:04:55,596 --> 00:04:59,196 Speaker 4: like I know you almost like a character. Is that 85 00:04:59,316 --> 00:05:02,996 Speaker 4: actually a decision or how did you deal with putting 86 00:05:03,036 --> 00:05:06,436 Speaker 4: forth a more honest and open version of yourself? 87 00:05:07,036 --> 00:05:07,236 Speaker 1: Yeah? 88 00:05:07,356 --> 00:05:08,916 Speaker 6: To be honest, it didn't really feel like good. 89 00:05:08,916 --> 00:05:09,116 Speaker 7: True. 90 00:05:09,716 --> 00:05:13,636 Speaker 5: It felt more more like when I was younger, uh, 91 00:05:14,156 --> 00:05:18,156 Speaker 5: you know, even a teenager, and I felt really isolated 92 00:05:18,156 --> 00:05:20,436 Speaker 5: in those times, you know, as like a young queer 93 00:05:20,516 --> 00:05:23,516 Speaker 5: kid kind of trying to figure out who I was 94 00:05:23,796 --> 00:05:29,276 Speaker 5: and where I belonged in the world. And these songs 95 00:05:29,396 --> 00:05:33,396 Speaker 5: like it was really similar to that process of just 96 00:05:33,996 --> 00:05:37,236 Speaker 5: you have to express yourself somehow or else it'll build up, 97 00:05:37,316 --> 00:05:39,956 Speaker 5: and you know, bad things happen when you don't express 98 00:05:39,996 --> 00:05:43,316 Speaker 5: yourself and you have all these feelings. It didn't feel 99 00:05:43,316 --> 00:05:46,116 Speaker 5: like a choice because I had to get it out somehow. 100 00:05:46,196 --> 00:05:49,316 Speaker 5: It was just you know, also, mind you, all of 101 00:05:49,316 --> 00:05:52,676 Speaker 5: these things were happening in the midst of the most 102 00:05:52,676 --> 00:05:56,956 Speaker 5: isolating time any of us will probably ever feel in 103 00:05:56,996 --> 00:05:59,876 Speaker 5: our whole lives, like during the pandemic, and you know, 104 00:05:59,956 --> 00:06:03,356 Speaker 5: being forced to kind of stay inside and be alone 105 00:06:03,516 --> 00:06:07,596 Speaker 5: as much as possible, so you're just sitting just marinating 106 00:06:07,596 --> 00:06:11,276 Speaker 5: in your own thoughts. So to be trying to heal 107 00:06:11,356 --> 00:06:16,396 Speaker 5: from things, which requires looking inward in a very isolating time, 108 00:06:17,116 --> 00:06:19,356 Speaker 5: you know, that's a lot of loneliness right there, and 109 00:06:19,396 --> 00:06:23,836 Speaker 5: that's a lot of ripping some big band aids of like, Okay, well, 110 00:06:23,876 --> 00:06:26,076 Speaker 5: if I'm going to improve my life and if I'm 111 00:06:26,116 --> 00:06:29,116 Speaker 5: going to try and become a better person, improve my 112 00:06:29,196 --> 00:06:33,356 Speaker 5: mental health and start to love myself, I have to 113 00:06:33,436 --> 00:06:37,836 Speaker 5: go deep. And sometimes that's so scary. It's still scary. 114 00:06:38,556 --> 00:06:41,076 Speaker 5: You know, the characters that you're talking about, they are 115 00:06:41,156 --> 00:06:44,596 Speaker 5: still me. Yeah, And that was something that was probably 116 00:06:44,676 --> 00:06:49,396 Speaker 5: my bad of not making that more clear that anytime 117 00:06:49,436 --> 00:06:51,036 Speaker 5: I was like kind of putting on an act, it 118 00:06:51,116 --> 00:06:53,916 Speaker 5: was like just a poking, fun a version of myself, 119 00:06:53,996 --> 00:06:57,916 Speaker 5: like right, but this time there were no crutches because 120 00:06:58,156 --> 00:07:02,196 Speaker 5: I wasn't really I didn't have any I didn't. 121 00:07:01,996 --> 00:07:05,076 Speaker 4: Yeah, would the melodies come to you first? Or would 122 00:07:05,116 --> 00:07:06,756 Speaker 4: the words come to you first? Like how was the 123 00:07:06,796 --> 00:07:08,836 Speaker 4: actual construction of the songs happening? 124 00:07:09,316 --> 00:07:10,316 Speaker 6: It's always different. 125 00:07:10,556 --> 00:07:14,196 Speaker 5: I don't understand it, but you know, some things at work, 126 00:07:14,476 --> 00:07:17,036 Speaker 5: some things at work in there, because sometimes you know 127 00:07:17,116 --> 00:07:20,556 Speaker 5: the melody, I'll just be noodling on an instrument, the 128 00:07:20,596 --> 00:07:24,716 Speaker 5: piano or guitar, which is so much fun because there's 129 00:07:24,716 --> 00:07:25,756 Speaker 5: no gadgets involved. 130 00:07:25,796 --> 00:07:27,396 Speaker 6: You just sit down, dress. 131 00:07:27,116 --> 00:07:29,396 Speaker 5: A note and it makes a sound and then you 132 00:07:29,396 --> 00:07:33,836 Speaker 5: can immediately there's no waiting, like you can just make 133 00:07:33,916 --> 00:07:38,196 Speaker 5: something that sounds interesting, and there it is, and then 134 00:07:38,516 --> 00:07:42,036 Speaker 5: the song is made. So sometimes it's as simple as that, 135 00:07:42,156 --> 00:07:45,196 Speaker 5: as you just sit down, you hear something and then 136 00:07:45,476 --> 00:07:48,196 Speaker 5: it's like pulling a thread and you're like, this makes 137 00:07:48,236 --> 00:07:51,356 Speaker 5: me feel this way, and this other chord makes me 138 00:07:51,396 --> 00:07:55,436 Speaker 5: feel this way, and you just pull the thread more 139 00:07:55,436 --> 00:07:57,476 Speaker 5: and more until it's like, oh. 140 00:07:57,076 --> 00:08:01,036 Speaker 6: This is what this is about and it's so cool. Yeah. 141 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:04,236 Speaker 5: And other times, you know it, there'll be a line. 142 00:08:04,276 --> 00:08:08,036 Speaker 5: I'll be like, oh, this is such a great line. 143 00:08:08,236 --> 00:08:10,076 Speaker 2: You have some great line on this album. 144 00:08:10,436 --> 00:08:10,956 Speaker 6: Oh thank you. 145 00:08:11,876 --> 00:08:13,596 Speaker 4: The first one that stood out to me just because 146 00:08:13,636 --> 00:08:17,276 Speaker 4: the sequence of the album was in Miami, where you're 147 00:08:17,276 --> 00:08:20,036 Speaker 4: talking back and forth with your mom in the song 148 00:08:21,036 --> 00:08:23,356 Speaker 4: your father and I were in the last stage of 149 00:08:23,356 --> 00:08:26,076 Speaker 4: our lives. So for God's sake, no more talk about 150 00:08:26,116 --> 00:08:27,236 Speaker 4: you imagine dying. 151 00:08:27,796 --> 00:08:30,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you're going through. 152 00:08:30,036 --> 00:08:33,236 Speaker 4: All these like woes and troubles, but then you hear 153 00:08:33,716 --> 00:08:36,996 Speaker 4: what your mom's going through, what she's facing, and she's like, look, 154 00:08:37,076 --> 00:08:37,956 Speaker 4: I'm facing death. 155 00:08:38,596 --> 00:08:41,396 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, and that's real talk right there. That 156 00:08:41,836 --> 00:08:44,876 Speaker 5: I feel like if only we all did that when 157 00:08:44,876 --> 00:08:47,876 Speaker 5: we were having kind of getting sucked into our own 158 00:08:47,876 --> 00:08:50,956 Speaker 5: little worlds. And just thought about the fact that this 159 00:08:51,036 --> 00:08:56,596 Speaker 5: isn't This doesn't last forever. You know, yeah, everything is impermanent, 160 00:08:56,636 --> 00:09:00,396 Speaker 5: and we all have an expiration date, including the good 161 00:09:00,396 --> 00:09:03,236 Speaker 5: times and the bad times, like they all have an 162 00:09:03,276 --> 00:09:08,396 Speaker 5: expiration date. So I need that reminder. And at that time, 163 00:09:08,636 --> 00:09:11,076 Speaker 5: when I was writing that song, I didn't have a 164 00:09:11,116 --> 00:09:14,196 Speaker 5: lot of tools to remind. 165 00:09:13,796 --> 00:09:16,236 Speaker 6: Myself of that. I know, it's obvious. 166 00:09:15,916 --> 00:09:17,836 Speaker 5: And now I look back, I'm like, this stuff is 167 00:09:17,836 --> 00:09:21,116 Speaker 5: so obvious, but for people like me at least to 168 00:09:21,956 --> 00:09:28,636 Speaker 5: get sucked into the stream of busyness and things thrown 169 00:09:28,676 --> 00:09:33,796 Speaker 5: at you and expectations and you know, ambition, right. 170 00:09:34,236 --> 00:09:36,396 Speaker 2: Is that an actual conversation you've had with your mom. 171 00:09:36,556 --> 00:09:38,916 Speaker 6: It's almost, word for word, a real conversation. 172 00:09:39,036 --> 00:09:42,516 Speaker 5: And when I was making this and when the album 173 00:09:42,596 --> 00:09:47,476 Speaker 5: kind of started revealing itself as a complete thing, I 174 00:09:47,516 --> 00:09:49,956 Speaker 5: did have this moment where I was like, I haven't 175 00:09:49,996 --> 00:09:52,996 Speaker 5: held back with myself at all. I'm not there's no 176 00:09:53,116 --> 00:09:55,956 Speaker 5: facade here, and I'm like, if I'm going to put 177 00:09:55,956 --> 00:09:58,636 Speaker 5: this out, I might as well go for it, like 178 00:09:58,716 --> 00:10:00,796 Speaker 5: go deep and make it as real as possible. And 179 00:10:01,236 --> 00:10:04,196 Speaker 5: I mean, man, so much of this is real. If 180 00:10:04,196 --> 00:10:06,316 Speaker 5: there's any quotes in there, like I don't know if 181 00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:08,916 Speaker 5: you have the lyrics sheets and stuff, but sometimes I'll 182 00:10:08,956 --> 00:10:12,396 Speaker 5: have little conversation. You'll see quotes where I'm having a 183 00:10:12,396 --> 00:10:15,316 Speaker 5: conversation with myself and these will be like real things 184 00:10:15,316 --> 00:10:18,916 Speaker 5: that I'm talking the voice in my head is saying, 185 00:10:19,156 --> 00:10:21,716 Speaker 5: and you know, sometimes the voice in my head is 186 00:10:21,756 --> 00:10:22,836 Speaker 5: like the most cruel. 187 00:10:23,956 --> 00:10:27,356 Speaker 4: Yeah, once you started to figure out that this might 188 00:10:27,436 --> 00:10:30,676 Speaker 4: actually be an album, how did you figure out what 189 00:10:31,036 --> 00:10:31,516 Speaker 4: went where? 190 00:10:32,236 --> 00:10:32,516 Speaker 6: Man? 191 00:10:32,516 --> 00:10:35,996 Speaker 5: Sequencing is probably my favorite part of the album making process. 192 00:10:36,396 --> 00:10:39,036 Speaker 5: You can craft the journey that people are going on, 193 00:10:39,836 --> 00:10:43,276 Speaker 5: and you know, normally I will put the more upbeat 194 00:10:43,316 --> 00:10:46,276 Speaker 5: stuff up front and then and then make it like 195 00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:49,076 Speaker 5: kind of heavier as you go along, or more theorial 196 00:10:49,196 --> 00:10:52,796 Speaker 5: or something, and sort of the opposite on this one. 197 00:10:53,076 --> 00:10:54,636 Speaker 6: I well, first. 198 00:10:54,356 --> 00:10:56,716 Speaker 5: Off, I knew that Love Love Friend was gonna be 199 00:10:56,756 --> 00:10:59,876 Speaker 5: the first song. I wrote that really quickly. It just 200 00:10:59,996 --> 00:11:03,956 Speaker 5: really I don't know it again, the magic I don't 201 00:11:03,956 --> 00:11:08,636 Speaker 5: ask questions, but it just kind of wrote itself. It 202 00:11:08,676 --> 00:11:11,676 Speaker 5: was just and I was like, this is the beginning 203 00:11:11,716 --> 00:11:14,836 Speaker 5: of some sort of journey. It just felt like the 204 00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:19,916 Speaker 5: beginning and it kind of captured the mystery in the longing. 205 00:11:20,836 --> 00:11:24,156 Speaker 5: But to me, there's a sort of hope in it. 206 00:11:24,196 --> 00:11:27,996 Speaker 5: I'll be a mixed in with some pain. 207 00:11:29,396 --> 00:11:29,636 Speaker 1: Yeah. 208 00:11:29,676 --> 00:11:32,156 Speaker 4: What I thought was interesting about that song, Like, it's 209 00:11:32,156 --> 00:11:34,796 Speaker 4: definitely I mean, it is the perfect first song because 210 00:11:34,836 --> 00:11:38,796 Speaker 4: it makes such an emotional statement and sets the tone 211 00:11:38,916 --> 00:11:41,916 Speaker 4: for the album. And you start out it's kind of 212 00:11:41,956 --> 00:11:44,716 Speaker 4: like making a personal statement, and I feel like you're 213 00:11:44,756 --> 00:11:48,716 Speaker 4: advocating for yourself. I'm not your lover, I'm not your mother, 214 00:11:49,116 --> 00:11:52,596 Speaker 4: I'm not your son, And it feels like you're trying 215 00:11:52,716 --> 00:11:56,476 Speaker 4: to figure out how you want to be treated in 216 00:11:56,516 --> 00:12:00,596 Speaker 4: an intimate relationship. And you have this love on one 217 00:12:00,716 --> 00:12:03,756 Speaker 4: end in your life that is unconditional, that comes from 218 00:12:03,836 --> 00:12:07,276 Speaker 4: your family. And there's all these like really sweet, beautiful 219 00:12:07,316 --> 00:12:11,476 Speaker 4: voicemails sprinkled throughout from I think it's your grandma. Yeah, 220 00:12:11,516 --> 00:12:13,916 Speaker 4: Who's like I love you, How are you doing? Are 221 00:12:13,916 --> 00:12:17,076 Speaker 4: you eating? Like these really like beautiful basic questions. She 222 00:12:17,156 --> 00:12:19,996 Speaker 4: just wants to know you're okay. And then you, you know, 223 00:12:20,076 --> 00:12:22,756 Speaker 4: have the conversation with your mom and you know, mention 224 00:12:22,836 --> 00:12:26,076 Speaker 4: of your family, which is just like this strong, unconditional love. 225 00:12:27,036 --> 00:12:30,036 Speaker 5: Yeah, oh man, that makes me, it makes me like 226 00:12:30,116 --> 00:12:35,436 Speaker 5: kind of weepy. Well, I should also mention my my 227 00:12:35,516 --> 00:12:40,236 Speaker 5: grandma like pass away the other day. Oh my gosh, 228 00:12:40,316 --> 00:12:41,956 Speaker 5: her voicemails are like all over it. 229 00:12:42,596 --> 00:12:48,116 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. She sounded just like the sweetest. 230 00:12:47,316 --> 00:12:49,876 Speaker 5: Yeah, she she really was. She's like kind of a 231 00:12:49,956 --> 00:12:53,436 Speaker 5: rock in her family. But even just thinking about my family, 232 00:12:53,476 --> 00:12:56,556 Speaker 5: we're all so close and going through a hard time 233 00:12:56,636 --> 00:12:59,356 Speaker 5: and having a family that really cares for one another. 234 00:13:00,556 --> 00:13:05,156 Speaker 5: It's such a beautiful privilege. I just feel so grateful 235 00:13:05,476 --> 00:13:06,636 Speaker 5: for my family. 236 00:13:07,196 --> 00:13:07,596 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 237 00:13:08,836 --> 00:13:12,836 Speaker 5: And I don't know this album, You're right, it captures 238 00:13:12,876 --> 00:13:15,956 Speaker 5: a certain moment in time, And I don't really consider 239 00:13:15,956 --> 00:13:17,996 Speaker 5: it a breakup album because that was just like one 240 00:13:18,076 --> 00:13:21,356 Speaker 5: of the things, one of the things during that time. 241 00:13:21,756 --> 00:13:24,956 Speaker 5: But to me, it's like it just will always remind 242 00:13:24,996 --> 00:13:29,356 Speaker 5: me of a time when I was in pieces and myself, 243 00:13:29,996 --> 00:13:33,156 Speaker 5: along with my family and my close friends like helped 244 00:13:33,276 --> 00:13:34,316 Speaker 5: put me back together. 245 00:13:36,476 --> 00:13:36,676 Speaker 2: Yeah. 246 00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:39,796 Speaker 4: The other line that really stood out to me is 247 00:13:40,476 --> 00:13:43,276 Speaker 4: on the last song on the album, on where Do 248 00:13:43,356 --> 00:13:46,076 Speaker 4: I Go From Here, which is a great last song title, 249 00:13:47,116 --> 00:13:49,676 Speaker 4: everybody wants a seat at the table. I just want 250 00:13:49,716 --> 00:13:52,916 Speaker 4: to be swaddled and rocked in a cradle. Where did 251 00:13:52,956 --> 00:13:53,596 Speaker 4: that come from? 252 00:13:54,036 --> 00:13:58,556 Speaker 5: I think I vacillate between being really ambitious about something 253 00:13:58,596 --> 00:14:00,356 Speaker 5: where I was like, oh, I could make you know, 254 00:14:00,916 --> 00:14:03,156 Speaker 5: why do this when you can make something even bigger 255 00:14:03,236 --> 00:14:07,516 Speaker 5: and greater and like it could be like legendary. And 256 00:14:07,556 --> 00:14:10,316 Speaker 5: then the other side of the spectrum is like I 257 00:14:10,436 --> 00:14:14,036 Speaker 5: just want to grow a garden, have my quiet little 258 00:14:14,076 --> 00:14:14,916 Speaker 5: life and. 259 00:14:15,596 --> 00:14:17,076 Speaker 6: Never see another soul again. 260 00:14:17,476 --> 00:14:19,556 Speaker 5: You know, Like I kind of flip lot between the 261 00:14:19,596 --> 00:14:22,516 Speaker 5: two extremes, and I'm trying to, like, you know, find 262 00:14:22,516 --> 00:14:26,316 Speaker 5: a balance between the two. But so often, you know, 263 00:14:26,396 --> 00:14:31,316 Speaker 5: I feel hold in this direction of it's like intense 264 00:14:32,396 --> 00:14:37,276 Speaker 5: ambitious kind of like success, you know, and sometimes I'm 265 00:14:37,356 --> 00:14:39,636 Speaker 5: just like I want to crawl back into the womb. 266 00:14:41,316 --> 00:14:44,956 Speaker 4: Man just thinking about your career and ambition and what 267 00:14:45,116 --> 00:14:47,596 Speaker 4: you want, like if you if there was like no 268 00:14:47,716 --> 00:14:52,796 Speaker 4: barrier to entry, no money issues, anything like how famous 269 00:14:52,836 --> 00:14:53,396 Speaker 4: do you want to be? 270 00:14:54,076 --> 00:14:56,396 Speaker 5: I can tell you right now that I care more 271 00:14:56,436 --> 00:14:58,916 Speaker 5: about and this is something I like work on with 272 00:14:58,956 --> 00:15:01,636 Speaker 5: my therapist. But ever since I was a little kid, 273 00:15:01,676 --> 00:15:04,676 Speaker 5: I've always had this like I don't know, like complex 274 00:15:04,716 --> 00:15:10,756 Speaker 5: maybe about being respected. I really just want, like I 275 00:15:10,796 --> 00:15:15,036 Speaker 5: want to die knowing I've been I've made decent enough 276 00:15:15,156 --> 00:15:17,236 Speaker 5: art to be considered a true artist. 277 00:15:17,636 --> 00:15:19,676 Speaker 6: That is what I want and I. 278 00:15:19,636 --> 00:15:21,756 Speaker 5: Still want it, and I you know, part of me 279 00:15:21,876 --> 00:15:25,636 Speaker 5: is just like who cares? Just quit, like just put 280 00:15:25,636 --> 00:15:29,116 Speaker 5: out this album. It's so stressful promoting an album and 281 00:15:29,156 --> 00:15:32,396 Speaker 5: like pouring in and especially this material is just gonna 282 00:15:32,836 --> 00:15:33,556 Speaker 5: You're gonna hear me. 283 00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:34,076 Speaker 6: Cry a lot. 284 00:15:34,156 --> 00:15:36,076 Speaker 5: This isn't the first time, Like you know, I'm gonna 285 00:15:36,076 --> 00:15:38,636 Speaker 5: be crying for the next two years talking about this album. 286 00:15:39,156 --> 00:15:42,276 Speaker 5: But it's really a lot, and you know, like this morning, 287 00:15:42,396 --> 00:15:44,316 Speaker 5: I was just like, I think I'm gonna do something 288 00:15:44,316 --> 00:15:46,276 Speaker 5: else after this, like I'm done with music. 289 00:15:46,756 --> 00:15:48,516 Speaker 6: It really depends on what day you catch me on. 290 00:15:48,836 --> 00:15:52,236 Speaker 5: I mean, if things are going well, people really appreciate 291 00:15:52,316 --> 00:15:55,796 Speaker 5: it and are moved by it, then maybe it'll carry 292 00:15:55,836 --> 00:15:57,516 Speaker 5: me on to do another one. 293 00:15:58,196 --> 00:16:03,236 Speaker 4: Is there like a marker of recognition, like something that 294 00:16:03,276 --> 00:16:05,876 Speaker 4: you could finally reach, Like whether it's like getting like 295 00:16:06,356 --> 00:16:08,916 Speaker 4: the Kennedy Center on ors, Like what's what would be 296 00:16:08,916 --> 00:16:11,516 Speaker 4: the ultimate marker that lets you know that like I 297 00:16:11,556 --> 00:16:12,916 Speaker 4: am a respected artist. 298 00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:17,636 Speaker 5: That's a really good question because I don't really care 299 00:16:17,676 --> 00:16:21,116 Speaker 5: about the awards. It's not that I think it would 300 00:16:21,156 --> 00:16:24,796 Speaker 5: be if if some of my favorite artists heard my 301 00:16:24,916 --> 00:16:27,676 Speaker 5: music or watch my videos or something, and we're like 302 00:16:28,276 --> 00:16:31,556 Speaker 5: this is good. If Tom Waits was like I really 303 00:16:31,636 --> 00:16:35,356 Speaker 5: like this stuff, I'd be like, I'm done. I checked out. 304 00:16:35,356 --> 00:16:38,956 Speaker 5: I've checked out. My career is over now because I've succeeded. 305 00:16:39,916 --> 00:16:42,556 Speaker 5: But yeah, I guess that. And sometimes that does happen, 306 00:16:42,636 --> 00:16:47,076 Speaker 5: you know, like mean directors or other musicians that I 307 00:16:47,156 --> 00:16:50,396 Speaker 5: really admire will write me, and. 308 00:16:50,156 --> 00:16:51,196 Speaker 6: That means so much. 309 00:16:51,556 --> 00:16:53,916 Speaker 5: That that means so much coming from people who whose 310 00:16:53,996 --> 00:16:56,676 Speaker 5: art that I also really admire. 311 00:16:56,676 --> 00:16:58,476 Speaker 2: So that gives you like a little like gas in 312 00:16:58,516 --> 00:16:59,036 Speaker 2: your tank. 313 00:16:59,356 --> 00:17:01,996 Speaker 6: Yeah, And but I think it's like that. 314 00:17:02,316 --> 00:17:04,236 Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, it's really what 315 00:17:04,316 --> 00:17:07,436 Speaker 5: people the fans send me that makes it feel like 316 00:17:07,516 --> 00:17:09,036 Speaker 5: I actually have some sort of value. 317 00:17:09,396 --> 00:17:11,276 Speaker 6: Like what I'm doing isn't just for me. 318 00:17:11,516 --> 00:17:15,356 Speaker 5: It's really to move people and like bring some beauty 319 00:17:15,356 --> 00:17:18,156 Speaker 5: into the world where there wasn't some before. 320 00:17:18,676 --> 00:17:21,236 Speaker 2: People actually like send you things, Oh. 321 00:17:21,156 --> 00:17:24,636 Speaker 5: Yeah, my friend just sent me this message. They're a 322 00:17:24,676 --> 00:17:28,916 Speaker 5: writer and they're talking about how the writing on the album. 323 00:17:29,516 --> 00:17:34,156 Speaker 5: It felt a lot like there's some writing process where 324 00:17:34,236 --> 00:17:37,436 Speaker 5: you'll write a draft and then you're kind of taking 325 00:17:37,476 --> 00:17:39,836 Speaker 5: the razor out and you're sharpening it down so that 326 00:17:39,916 --> 00:17:43,316 Speaker 5: each line is like razor sharp, gets to the point 327 00:17:43,356 --> 00:17:44,796 Speaker 5: and kind of hits. 328 00:17:44,596 --> 00:17:45,796 Speaker 6: You where it needs to hit you. 329 00:17:46,436 --> 00:17:51,276 Speaker 5: And they were saying that this album really feels like that, 330 00:17:52,596 --> 00:17:55,676 Speaker 5: you know, there's no extra fluff, and yeah, that really 331 00:17:55,716 --> 00:17:58,516 Speaker 5: got to me, and I was like, maybe I'm finally 332 00:17:58,556 --> 00:18:00,956 Speaker 5: getting closer to becoming a real artist. 333 00:18:04,956 --> 00:18:07,636 Speaker 2: And your parents are artists, right, That's. 334 00:18:07,476 --> 00:18:08,756 Speaker 6: Why I have such a complex. 335 00:18:09,556 --> 00:18:13,516 Speaker 5: I have such fierce critics aside from myself, they're my 336 00:18:13,556 --> 00:18:15,596 Speaker 5: biggest critics, especially my dad. 337 00:18:15,956 --> 00:18:17,636 Speaker 2: Do you send him your work and then he gives 338 00:18:17,636 --> 00:18:18,236 Speaker 2: you feedback? 339 00:18:18,436 --> 00:18:18,596 Speaker 1: Oh? 340 00:18:18,676 --> 00:18:20,956 Speaker 6: Yeah, and my dad will tell me how he feels. 341 00:18:21,076 --> 00:18:25,196 Speaker 5: He sent me a legendary email once that I had 342 00:18:25,236 --> 00:18:27,116 Speaker 5: made a draft in a song because I wasn't I 343 00:18:27,156 --> 00:18:29,556 Speaker 5: was like, you know, I'm not totally sure I nailed 344 00:18:29,556 --> 00:18:33,796 Speaker 5: this one. I just wanted to try, like a different technique, 345 00:18:33,836 --> 00:18:38,196 Speaker 5: and so I tried this different style and I sent 346 00:18:38,316 --> 00:18:42,276 Speaker 5: it to him and he wrote back, Oh great, let 347 00:18:42,316 --> 00:18:45,916 Speaker 5: me just douse myself in gasoline and let himself on fire. 348 00:18:46,556 --> 00:18:51,076 Speaker 5: And I'm like, wow, ouch. My dad is very dramatic 349 00:18:52,236 --> 00:18:56,356 Speaker 5: and also hilarious. But he wasn't a fan, and so 350 00:18:56,436 --> 00:18:58,116 Speaker 5: I was like, well, Okay. 351 00:18:58,436 --> 00:19:00,116 Speaker 4: So do you change it at that point? Like, how 352 00:19:00,116 --> 00:19:02,556 Speaker 4: do you know like when to go against what your dad? 353 00:19:02,596 --> 00:19:04,396 Speaker 4: Because you know a lot of times like dads can 354 00:19:04,436 --> 00:19:06,916 Speaker 4: be like God in our minds, Like do you go 355 00:19:07,036 --> 00:19:08,996 Speaker 4: against God or do you just like do you? 356 00:19:10,076 --> 00:19:13,316 Speaker 5: Well, the thing is, my dad's still a dad, and 357 00:19:13,356 --> 00:19:16,436 Speaker 5: he's still you know, an old white man, but he 358 00:19:16,516 --> 00:19:17,636 Speaker 5: is a genius artist. 359 00:19:17,876 --> 00:19:21,316 Speaker 6: He's a genius. Like my dad is one of my 360 00:19:21,396 --> 00:19:22,236 Speaker 6: favorite living. 361 00:19:22,116 --> 00:19:25,596 Speaker 2: Artists with medium does He work in mostly. 362 00:19:25,316 --> 00:19:28,636 Speaker 5: Draws, but he's one of those freaks that he could 363 00:19:28,676 --> 00:19:32,676 Speaker 5: do anything. He decided all of a sudden to become 364 00:19:32,716 --> 00:19:36,436 Speaker 5: a carpenter and made the most beautiful pieces. 365 00:19:36,476 --> 00:19:40,356 Speaker 6: I mean he could do anything. Wow, very brilliant mind. 366 00:19:40,956 --> 00:19:43,996 Speaker 5: Has no idea of the depths of his talent and 367 00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:45,956 Speaker 5: needs to be constantly reassured. 368 00:19:46,076 --> 00:19:47,636 Speaker 6: But he's a true genius. 369 00:19:47,676 --> 00:19:50,596 Speaker 5: And so when he does tell me something, he'll say 370 00:19:50,636 --> 00:19:52,476 Speaker 5: like this is low hanging fruit, or like this isn't 371 00:19:52,476 --> 00:19:53,356 Speaker 5: your best material. 372 00:19:53,756 --> 00:19:56,236 Speaker 6: It doesn't hold a candle to the other stuff. He's 373 00:19:56,316 --> 00:20:00,636 Speaker 6: usually right, wow, So I'll rework it and rework it. 374 00:20:00,716 --> 00:20:04,076 Speaker 5: And it's not like my dad is my main demographic. 375 00:20:04,156 --> 00:20:06,716 Speaker 5: But I do think that if it's a good song, 376 00:20:07,156 --> 00:20:10,596 Speaker 5: it kind of permeates demographics. 377 00:20:11,276 --> 00:20:12,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. 378 00:20:12,516 --> 00:20:13,756 Speaker 6: So if my. 379 00:20:13,716 --> 00:20:16,956 Speaker 5: Parents are like, I really wish you wouldn't curse so much, 380 00:20:17,036 --> 00:20:18,316 Speaker 5: I'm like, okay, disregard. 381 00:20:18,716 --> 00:20:21,516 Speaker 6: But if they say something about like the. 382 00:20:21,476 --> 00:20:25,116 Speaker 5: Emotional level of the song or something that really it's 383 00:20:25,116 --> 00:20:28,236 Speaker 5: a real thought that they're moved by in some way, 384 00:20:28,636 --> 00:20:31,996 Speaker 5: like it's it doesn't move me enough, or there's too 385 00:20:32,036 --> 00:20:35,916 Speaker 5: many bells and whistles that sometimes that is a critique 386 00:20:35,916 --> 00:20:38,236 Speaker 5: of my dad, and almost all the time he's right. 387 00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:40,916 Speaker 2: That's incredible. What about your mom? What does she do? 388 00:20:41,516 --> 00:20:44,316 Speaker 5: My mom is also an artist. She's worked for NBC 389 00:20:44,676 --> 00:20:47,196 Speaker 5: doing mechanicals for a really long time and so she 390 00:20:47,276 --> 00:20:49,956 Speaker 5: got really good at like layouts and stuff like that. 391 00:20:50,036 --> 00:20:52,636 Speaker 5: So she does all the layouts for my albums and 392 00:20:53,196 --> 00:20:55,116 Speaker 5: all my friend's albums. 393 00:20:55,836 --> 00:20:58,516 Speaker 4: So getting back to the album, tell me about the 394 00:20:58,556 --> 00:20:59,636 Speaker 4: thought behind the album cover. 395 00:21:00,396 --> 00:21:03,716 Speaker 5: My friend Monica, Monica Murray, she came to my house 396 00:21:03,756 --> 00:21:10,356 Speaker 5: and had this special film and it took nine shots 397 00:21:10,396 --> 00:21:15,116 Speaker 5: to get this really beautiful photo of me. In my 398 00:21:15,716 --> 00:21:18,516 Speaker 5: I have this red chair in my living room and 399 00:21:18,556 --> 00:21:21,116 Speaker 5: that's where I meditate every day and I read and 400 00:21:21,116 --> 00:21:21,316 Speaker 5: I have. 401 00:21:21,396 --> 00:21:23,356 Speaker 6: My coffee it's like my favorite chair. 402 00:21:23,516 --> 00:21:26,236 Speaker 5: When I moved into this house, I was in the 403 00:21:26,356 --> 00:21:29,516 Speaker 5: depths of despair and my molm was like, just make 404 00:21:29,596 --> 00:21:33,716 Speaker 5: yourself a corner. And so I made this corner with 405 00:21:33,756 --> 00:21:36,676 Speaker 5: my chair and my plants and the rest of the 406 00:21:36,716 --> 00:21:38,956 Speaker 5: house was pretty much empty, and I just sat in 407 00:21:39,036 --> 00:21:42,156 Speaker 5: this chair for so long, so it was very special 408 00:21:42,156 --> 00:21:45,196 Speaker 5: to me. And she took this brilliant photo of me 409 00:21:45,316 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 5: in this chair and I had this fur coat on 410 00:21:48,276 --> 00:21:51,796 Speaker 5: and I like no shirt underneath, like in my underwear, 411 00:21:52,596 --> 00:21:55,236 Speaker 5: and it just was so beautiful. And I was obsessed 412 00:21:55,236 --> 00:21:56,676 Speaker 5: with this photo and we were both like, this is 413 00:21:56,716 --> 00:21:58,916 Speaker 5: so great. We got to do something with this. And 414 00:21:58,956 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 5: the more I sat on it and the album was 415 00:22:01,116 --> 00:22:04,076 Speaker 5: kind of coming together, I had this idea. I knew 416 00:22:04,076 --> 00:22:05,956 Speaker 5: the album was going to be called The Art Forgetting, 417 00:22:06,476 --> 00:22:11,116 Speaker 5: which is sort of a a poetic maybe a more 418 00:22:11,116 --> 00:22:15,236 Speaker 5: poetic way of saying learning how to let go of things. 419 00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:17,596 Speaker 5: At first, it was more of like the art of 420 00:22:17,676 --> 00:22:19,756 Speaker 5: forgetting to protect yourself. 421 00:22:19,396 --> 00:22:20,116 Speaker 6: Like I'm forgetting. 422 00:22:20,356 --> 00:22:21,196 Speaker 2: That's good. 423 00:22:22,076 --> 00:22:25,716 Speaker 5: But I knew it was called the Art Forgetting. And 424 00:22:25,756 --> 00:22:27,396 Speaker 5: I sent you to Monica. I was like, we need 425 00:22:27,436 --> 00:22:30,116 Speaker 5: to we need to make this album cover, like with 426 00:22:30,236 --> 00:22:33,036 Speaker 5: this same photo but with the room on fire. 427 00:22:33,596 --> 00:22:34,116 Speaker 6: And then it. 428 00:22:34,076 --> 00:22:35,956 Speaker 5: Became like, okay, how were we going to do it? 429 00:22:35,956 --> 00:22:39,756 Speaker 5: It Like, here's our budget, how can we light my 430 00:22:39,876 --> 00:22:40,916 Speaker 5: living room ondifire? 431 00:22:43,556 --> 00:22:45,756 Speaker 6: And it was such a labor of love. 432 00:22:45,836 --> 00:22:51,396 Speaker 5: Like my neighbor Andy Flores is a brilliant artist herself, 433 00:22:51,516 --> 00:22:56,356 Speaker 5: and Andy and Monica and our builder front Tory came 434 00:22:56,716 --> 00:22:59,756 Speaker 5: came over and we made a plan to rebuild my 435 00:22:59,836 --> 00:23:00,396 Speaker 5: living room. 436 00:23:00,916 --> 00:23:01,396 Speaker 2: Wow. 437 00:23:02,036 --> 00:23:04,556 Speaker 5: So we rebuilt the living room and I happen to 438 00:23:04,596 --> 00:23:06,756 Speaker 5: have a warehouse in the back of my yard that 439 00:23:06,836 --> 00:23:11,196 Speaker 5: my friends use and sweet the warehouse built the set. 440 00:23:11,516 --> 00:23:14,596 Speaker 5: It was like identical to my actual living room. I 441 00:23:14,676 --> 00:23:16,956 Speaker 5: was really going to light it on fire, and turns 442 00:23:16,996 --> 00:23:20,956 Speaker 5: out like that's very difficult to do in a city. 443 00:23:21,236 --> 00:23:22,796 Speaker 2: But why not just photoshop it? 444 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:25,036 Speaker 5: Well, okay, So the thing is I wanted it to 445 00:23:25,076 --> 00:23:26,876 Speaker 5: be real. I was like, okay, I've gone this far 446 00:23:26,956 --> 00:23:29,996 Speaker 5: in this album. I'm getting deep, like this is real 447 00:23:30,516 --> 00:23:34,876 Speaker 5: for me. I wanted to all feel real everything, and 448 00:23:35,116 --> 00:23:36,996 Speaker 5: so I was like, let's really light it on fire. 449 00:23:38,276 --> 00:23:41,476 Speaker 5: And ultimately the reason why I didn't was it had 450 00:23:41,516 --> 00:23:44,596 Speaker 5: nothing to do with the cost or how difficult it 451 00:23:44,636 --> 00:23:47,076 Speaker 5: would be. But it had more to do with you 452 00:23:47,116 --> 00:23:50,036 Speaker 5: can't control the lighting. What you see is what you get, like, 453 00:23:50,036 --> 00:23:51,076 Speaker 5: you can only do it once. 454 00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:52,276 Speaker 2: True. 455 00:23:52,596 --> 00:23:55,516 Speaker 5: If the lighting isn't right, then you've just lit your 456 00:23:55,716 --> 00:23:59,036 Speaker 5: entire set on fire and that's your album cover. 457 00:24:00,196 --> 00:24:01,676 Speaker 6: And so I asked a bunch of people about this. 458 00:24:01,716 --> 00:24:04,516 Speaker 5: So I asked, like the set designer what he does, 459 00:24:04,916 --> 00:24:07,156 Speaker 5: and all of these people kind of said the same thing. 460 00:24:07,196 --> 00:24:09,956 Speaker 5: They were like, you have to recreate the effects of 461 00:24:09,996 --> 00:24:13,276 Speaker 5: the fire, and then you can add the flames on 462 00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:15,556 Speaker 5: top and then it looks very real, and then you've 463 00:24:15,596 --> 00:24:18,396 Speaker 5: got to you've got to use actual smoke. So it 464 00:24:18,436 --> 00:24:20,996 Speaker 5: actually worked really well because we had control over the 465 00:24:21,036 --> 00:24:21,516 Speaker 5: whole set. 466 00:24:21,916 --> 00:24:23,756 Speaker 2: So why are you blindfolded? 467 00:24:24,076 --> 00:24:27,196 Speaker 5: I find it so funny, like smoking a cigarette in 468 00:24:27,196 --> 00:24:30,516 Speaker 5: a burning room. Your outcome is not good, but you 469 00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:32,396 Speaker 5: don't want to see it, like you don't want to 470 00:24:32,436 --> 00:24:35,676 Speaker 5: see it. And I like the idea that people can 471 00:24:35,716 --> 00:24:37,436 Speaker 5: interpret it in their own way. You know, it can 472 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:40,236 Speaker 5: be funny, it could be despairing, it could be like suicidal. 473 00:24:40,796 --> 00:24:44,436 Speaker 5: To me, it's funny because I also tend to laugh 474 00:24:44,996 --> 00:24:50,636 Speaker 5: when I'm so despairingly sad. It's like, you come on, 475 00:24:50,716 --> 00:24:53,076 Speaker 5: you've got to laugh. A little bit like this is pathetic, 476 00:24:53,756 --> 00:24:55,956 Speaker 5: and I felt that way. I was like, this is 477 00:24:56,276 --> 00:25:02,596 Speaker 5: hilariously pathetic to me, fur coat, and it's like blazingly. 478 00:25:02,156 --> 00:25:05,276 Speaker 6: Hot in there, right. I don't know, I just. 479 00:25:05,836 --> 00:25:09,556 Speaker 5: I'm always looking for, you know, ways to shake things 480 00:25:09,596 --> 00:25:12,476 Speaker 5: up a little bit, like the athlete was all the cigarettes. 481 00:25:13,356 --> 00:25:15,076 Speaker 4: I know you're such a great sense of humor. I 482 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:17,676 Speaker 4: love that, and I love that that's still intact. 483 00:25:18,436 --> 00:25:21,036 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I like anything that kind of makes 484 00:25:21,036 --> 00:25:22,876 Speaker 5: people laugh and think at the same time. 485 00:25:24,036 --> 00:25:25,916 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here and then 486 00:25:25,996 --> 00:25:33,756 Speaker 1: come back with more from Caroline Rose. We're back with 487 00:25:33,796 --> 00:25:37,796 Speaker 1: the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with Caroline Rose. Before 488 00:25:37,796 --> 00:25:40,556 Speaker 1: we jump back in, let's hear a demo from Caroline's 489 00:25:40,596 --> 00:25:44,116 Speaker 1: new album, The Art of Forgetting. Here's the demo for 490 00:25:44,196 --> 00:25:47,156 Speaker 1: her song love Song for Myself. 491 00:25:52,516 --> 00:26:01,956 Speaker 8: If I a doorman, then im. 492 00:26:05,316 --> 00:26:10,196 Speaker 3: Hanover, I'm exceptional. 493 00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:17,956 Speaker 7: I am at times treasure on a hor with fall. 494 00:26:22,116 --> 00:26:35,916 Speaker 3: If I'm a punching bird, then to get your face 495 00:26:38,436 --> 00:26:42,556 Speaker 3: you are we wait fighter. 496 00:26:43,596 --> 00:27:02,516 Speaker 7: Genuine coloring. If I'm lonelys, then I'm not lonely. If 497 00:27:02,596 --> 00:27:08,316 Speaker 7: I'm suffering, deny am the moet. 498 00:27:10,876 --> 00:27:12,756 Speaker 3: If I'm a deacent. 499 00:27:15,756 --> 00:27:47,076 Speaker 9: The la two they from all the place, my final 500 00:27:50,596 --> 00:27:52,076 Speaker 9: a hurricane. 501 00:27:55,036 --> 00:28:16,556 Speaker 3: Coming to destroying. There are two the ritter of both things. 502 00:28:16,636 --> 00:28:43,436 Speaker 8: Beautiful my bed, you see a little beauty within me. 503 00:28:46,796 --> 00:28:56,276 Speaker 3: But until that, let's keep in time. I'll just be 504 00:28:56,516 --> 00:29:00,956 Speaker 3: here for then that. 505 00:29:24,956 --> 00:29:27,396 Speaker 2: When you sing this song by yourself live, how is 506 00:29:27,436 --> 00:29:29,876 Speaker 2: it different than what appears on the album. 507 00:29:31,516 --> 00:29:34,076 Speaker 5: Honestly, it doesn't. It doesn't feel that much different to me. 508 00:29:34,156 --> 00:29:36,756 Speaker 5: I think there's a little more production value on the 509 00:29:37,556 --> 00:29:41,476 Speaker 5: on the album. But I remember when I wrote it. 510 00:29:41,516 --> 00:29:43,916 Speaker 5: I was I was out in the desert and it 511 00:29:44,036 --> 00:29:47,756 Speaker 5: was just like a I brought this little nylon string 512 00:29:47,836 --> 00:29:50,396 Speaker 5: and I was just laying on the ground, like looking 513 00:29:50,436 --> 00:29:53,396 Speaker 5: up at the stars. It was very idyllic and dramatic 514 00:29:53,476 --> 00:29:57,316 Speaker 5: and beautiful, and it was sort of like the clouds 515 00:29:57,316 --> 00:30:00,556 Speaker 5: that part parted, and there's some golden hope for me 516 00:30:00,716 --> 00:30:03,516 Speaker 5: that I was learning how to love myself again, like 517 00:30:03,596 --> 00:30:06,396 Speaker 5: do nice things for myself. And I'm like, you know what, 518 00:30:06,956 --> 00:30:09,076 Speaker 5: even though I feel like I have the training wheels 519 00:30:09,316 --> 00:30:13,236 Speaker 5: and I don't remember how to totally love myself again, 520 00:30:13,956 --> 00:30:17,516 Speaker 5: I'm gonna just pretend you kind of hear that. 521 00:30:17,676 --> 00:30:19,316 Speaker 6: It's like if I'm a doormat. 522 00:30:19,436 --> 00:30:22,916 Speaker 5: Then I'm hand woven, I'm an heirloom, I'm a treasure 523 00:30:23,436 --> 00:30:24,396 Speaker 5: on the floor. 524 00:30:25,716 --> 00:30:28,156 Speaker 2: You know, Oh that's so nice. 525 00:30:28,316 --> 00:30:30,356 Speaker 5: If you can't be nice yourself, you can at least 526 00:30:30,396 --> 00:30:31,596 Speaker 5: just fake it till you make it. 527 00:30:32,356 --> 00:30:33,636 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, hopefully it worked. 528 00:30:33,756 --> 00:30:35,316 Speaker 6: Yeah, it did work. It did work. 529 00:30:35,916 --> 00:30:39,956 Speaker 4: Talk about your decision to distort your vocals. A lot 530 00:30:39,996 --> 00:30:42,996 Speaker 4: of the songs your vocals are are distorted a little bit. 531 00:30:43,076 --> 00:30:46,956 Speaker 4: I was curious does that change, does that change your performance, 532 00:30:47,076 --> 00:30:50,556 Speaker 4: like how you actually perform the song, and does that 533 00:30:50,676 --> 00:30:53,516 Speaker 4: ever allow you to say things that you wouldn't say 534 00:30:53,716 --> 00:30:54,716 Speaker 4: without the distortion. 535 00:30:56,076 --> 00:30:59,956 Speaker 5: I think a big part of a performance is the 536 00:31:00,076 --> 00:31:03,796 Speaker 5: vibe of it, you know, the sonics and the characteristics 537 00:31:03,836 --> 00:31:07,356 Speaker 5: that make you feel a certain way. And pretty early 538 00:31:07,396 --> 00:31:10,276 Speaker 5: on I made a point that it it was important 539 00:31:10,636 --> 00:31:14,396 Speaker 5: that I can play all of the songs by myself solo, 540 00:31:14,596 --> 00:31:17,556 Speaker 5: even the ones that ended up sounding pretty produced, they 541 00:31:17,556 --> 00:31:20,636 Speaker 5: can all be pledged, stripped down solo and be a 542 00:31:20,756 --> 00:31:25,316 Speaker 5: complete song. And I really liked this idea of if 543 00:31:25,396 --> 00:31:30,076 Speaker 5: you imagine the solo performance as this little small ball, 544 00:31:31,116 --> 00:31:37,356 Speaker 5: and this little small ball that is fragile and vulnerable 545 00:31:37,636 --> 00:31:42,836 Speaker 5: and at any moment could break and then these big 546 00:31:43,156 --> 00:31:47,916 Speaker 5: moments of magnitude and Hi Phi Sonics, kind of like 547 00:31:48,276 --> 00:31:53,476 Speaker 5: in Gulf does little little vulnerable nucleus. I kept seeing 548 00:31:53,556 --> 00:31:56,396 Speaker 5: that come up over and over again, because you know, 549 00:31:56,476 --> 00:31:59,996 Speaker 5: when you're feeling so bad, you do feel like you 550 00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:04,316 Speaker 5: could you could combust at any moment. Like humans also, 551 00:32:04,796 --> 00:32:10,236 Speaker 5: we have the ability to create measurably beautiful world even 552 00:32:10,276 --> 00:32:14,876 Speaker 5: from the depths of our sadness. And I felt that 553 00:32:14,956 --> 00:32:17,756 Speaker 5: even at the worst moment, I was like, Okay, I 554 00:32:17,796 --> 00:32:21,916 Speaker 5: know I'm definitely toward the bottom of the well right now, 555 00:32:22,796 --> 00:32:26,316 Speaker 5: but I know that's where I am, but just the 556 00:32:26,476 --> 00:32:29,316 Speaker 5: view from the bottom is enough to kind of give 557 00:32:29,356 --> 00:32:32,756 Speaker 5: me some hope. And that really fueled kind of the 558 00:32:33,636 --> 00:32:37,076 Speaker 5: textures of the album. And I wanted to maintain that 559 00:32:37,156 --> 00:32:41,916 Speaker 5: vulnerability but also have it feel triumphant and magnificent and 560 00:32:41,916 --> 00:32:45,236 Speaker 5: at times really dreamy, to kind of emulate that feeling 561 00:32:45,356 --> 00:32:49,476 Speaker 5: of being able to pull yourself out of despair and 562 00:32:49,756 --> 00:32:53,236 Speaker 5: recognize your own power even when you're feeling weak. 563 00:32:53,876 --> 00:32:56,996 Speaker 2: Totally, did you come up with all of the arrangements. 564 00:32:57,596 --> 00:33:00,196 Speaker 5: The only things that I didn't come up with were 565 00:33:00,196 --> 00:33:03,196 Speaker 5: the string arrangements, and those were done by my friend 566 00:33:03,196 --> 00:33:04,996 Speaker 5: Talcats and Sammy Weisberg. 567 00:33:05,756 --> 00:33:08,116 Speaker 2: The strings on, Jill Saysar's gorgeous. 568 00:33:08,276 --> 00:33:09,036 Speaker 6: They're beautiful. 569 00:33:09,836 --> 00:33:12,196 Speaker 5: They did such a great job, and they sent me 570 00:33:12,276 --> 00:33:14,676 Speaker 5: like the rough of it, and then I was like, oh, 571 00:33:14,716 --> 00:33:16,556 Speaker 5: what if it you know, what if it swells here 572 00:33:16,596 --> 00:33:19,756 Speaker 5: and does this and you move this section here, and 573 00:33:19,796 --> 00:33:23,356 Speaker 5: then it was like the next draft was done pretty 574 00:33:23,436 --> 00:33:24,356 Speaker 5: much as simple as that. 575 00:33:24,756 --> 00:33:25,836 Speaker 6: They really nailed it. 576 00:33:26,316 --> 00:33:28,556 Speaker 4: How did that song come together? And how did you 577 00:33:28,916 --> 00:33:31,156 Speaker 4: come up with the idea for the arrangement. 578 00:33:31,236 --> 00:33:35,076 Speaker 6: On, Jill says. Jill says, yeah, well, Jill's my therapist. 579 00:33:36,236 --> 00:33:36,796 Speaker 2: I love that. 580 00:33:37,476 --> 00:33:38,156 Speaker 6: Yeah. 581 00:33:38,276 --> 00:33:42,076 Speaker 5: And I had been noodling on the on the piano 582 00:33:42,356 --> 00:33:46,596 Speaker 5: at my parents' house when I visited, and I think 583 00:33:46,636 --> 00:33:49,996 Speaker 5: I had been listening to a lot of classical music, 584 00:33:50,276 --> 00:33:54,076 Speaker 5: a lot of w C and Satis. I really love 585 00:33:54,276 --> 00:33:59,716 Speaker 5: all the French minimalists kind of composers. And I think 586 00:33:59,716 --> 00:34:04,316 Speaker 5: I was just practicing and that the arpeggio that kind 587 00:34:04,316 --> 00:34:07,356 Speaker 5: of is like three or four octave arpeggio. 588 00:34:07,756 --> 00:34:09,036 Speaker 6: It sounded so beautiful. 589 00:34:09,196 --> 00:34:12,236 Speaker 5: I was just like, Wow, I can't believe I can 590 00:34:12,276 --> 00:34:15,316 Speaker 5: play this, because I've never really thought of myself as 591 00:34:15,556 --> 00:34:19,236 Speaker 5: a piano player. But I think those early early years 592 00:34:19,236 --> 00:34:23,076 Speaker 5: of piano lessons of somehow they've never left my hands. 593 00:34:23,196 --> 00:34:23,716 Speaker 2: Very cool. 594 00:34:23,876 --> 00:34:26,236 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like impressed with myself. I'm like Dan, 595 00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:29,436 Speaker 5: I didn't know I could play as well. But I 596 00:34:29,516 --> 00:34:32,516 Speaker 5: really liked this sort of floral feel to it. It 597 00:34:32,596 --> 00:34:36,036 Speaker 5: was floral and it reminded me of the beautiful times 598 00:34:36,116 --> 00:34:40,236 Speaker 5: in this relationship that had ended. And it was like, 599 00:34:40,316 --> 00:34:44,236 Speaker 5: you know, a relationship can end and it doesn't all 600 00:34:44,276 --> 00:34:47,236 Speaker 5: have to be bad, like you can honor it. Even 601 00:34:47,236 --> 00:34:49,036 Speaker 5: if you don't have a relationship with that person, you 602 00:34:49,516 --> 00:34:51,116 Speaker 5: can still honor your time together. 603 00:34:51,556 --> 00:34:52,796 Speaker 6: And that's what it felt like to me. 604 00:34:52,876 --> 00:34:56,636 Speaker 5: It was like, you know, complicated time, but it was 605 00:34:56,676 --> 00:35:00,396 Speaker 5: a beautiful time. And so I liked this idea that 606 00:35:00,636 --> 00:35:02,596 Speaker 5: it was almost like a little movie soundtrack. 607 00:35:03,036 --> 00:35:04,276 Speaker 2: It feels very cinematic. 608 00:35:04,716 --> 00:35:06,916 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it is cinematic. I do think when you 609 00:35:06,956 --> 00:35:10,156 Speaker 5: put strings on something, it automatically sounds cinematic. But even 610 00:35:10,156 --> 00:35:11,796 Speaker 5: if the strings were in there, I think this would 611 00:35:11,796 --> 00:35:12,836 Speaker 5: be a cinematic sounding. 612 00:35:14,076 --> 00:35:15,956 Speaker 2: How do you feel about in a way when you 613 00:35:15,996 --> 00:35:18,356 Speaker 2: write a song, it's almost like, as an artist, if 614 00:35:18,356 --> 00:35:20,836 Speaker 2: this is your job, you're in a way you're commodifying 615 00:35:20,876 --> 00:35:24,516 Speaker 2: your feelings. How does that feel for you? 616 00:35:25,836 --> 00:35:29,276 Speaker 5: This is a tough question for me because I am 617 00:35:29,396 --> 00:35:33,876 Speaker 5: realizing more and more that if I want to make 618 00:35:33,916 --> 00:35:37,356 Speaker 5: my best work, I have to put that out of 619 00:35:37,396 --> 00:35:43,556 Speaker 5: my mind completely, and that includes not even involving anyone 620 00:35:43,676 --> 00:35:46,756 Speaker 5: to do with business or thinking in a business manner. 621 00:35:47,716 --> 00:35:48,836 Speaker 6: It cannot be involved. 622 00:35:48,876 --> 00:35:51,716 Speaker 5: And that's something I actually learned on Superstar, which I 623 00:35:52,516 --> 00:35:55,756 Speaker 5: made some choices that looking back on it, I'm like, 624 00:35:55,756 --> 00:35:56,956 Speaker 5: would I have done that again? 625 00:35:57,036 --> 00:35:57,956 Speaker 6: Knowing what I know now. 626 00:36:00,156 --> 00:36:02,316 Speaker 5: The only regrets I've ever had in my career have 627 00:36:02,476 --> 00:36:05,196 Speaker 5: been one I've made a business choice over a creative one, 628 00:36:05,756 --> 00:36:09,996 Speaker 5: Hans Now, every single time that's been the the issue, 629 00:36:10,076 --> 00:36:12,476 Speaker 5: and I did I made a point of not doing 630 00:36:12,476 --> 00:36:15,116 Speaker 5: that this time, and I really think that the music 631 00:36:15,156 --> 00:36:18,516 Speaker 5: benefits from that. So when it's made, I am selling 632 00:36:18,516 --> 00:36:21,116 Speaker 5: a product and my whole team, I have a whole 633 00:36:21,116 --> 00:36:24,676 Speaker 5: team that helps me sell a product and you know, 634 00:36:25,116 --> 00:36:26,956 Speaker 5: essentially selling myself too. 635 00:36:27,596 --> 00:36:29,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, yourself and like your most vulnerable self. 636 00:36:30,076 --> 00:36:31,396 Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll see how this goes. 637 00:36:31,876 --> 00:36:32,156 Speaker 3: Yeah. 638 00:36:32,196 --> 00:36:34,876 Speaker 4: Well, look, I wish you so much luck with the 639 00:36:34,916 --> 00:36:38,036 Speaker 4: whole promo cycle of the album, And thank you so 640 00:36:38,116 --> 00:36:38,956 Speaker 4: much for talking with me. 641 00:36:39,276 --> 00:36:41,036 Speaker 6: Oh, thank you. It's been a real pleasure. 642 00:36:43,596 --> 00:36:47,036 Speaker 1: Thanks again to Caroline Rose. You can hear her latest album, 643 00:36:47,116 --> 00:36:50,516 Speaker 1: The Artist Forgetting, along with our other favorite songs of hers, 644 00:36:50,596 --> 00:36:54,396 Speaker 1: at broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to 645 00:36:54,476 --> 00:36:58,636 Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, 646 00:36:58,756 --> 00:37:02,156 Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. Broken 647 00:37:02,196 --> 00:37:05,396 Speaker 1: Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, 648 00:37:05,676 --> 00:37:10,756 Speaker 1: Ben Taliday, Nisha Venkat, Jordan McMillan, and Eric Sandler. Our 649 00:37:10,876 --> 00:37:15,156 Speaker 1: editor is Sophie Credible. Broken Record is a production of 650 00:37:15,196 --> 00:37:18,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, 651 00:37:18,556 --> 00:37:23,196 Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast 652 00:37:23,196 --> 00:37:27,156 Speaker 1: subscription service that offers bonus content and unintrupted ad free 653 00:37:27,196 --> 00:37:30,676 Speaker 1: listening for only four ninety nine a month. Look for 654 00:37:30,716 --> 00:37:34,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like 655 00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:37,476 Speaker 1: the show, remember to share, rate, and review us on 656 00:37:37,516 --> 00:37:41,156 Speaker 1: your podcast staff. Our theme music expec. Kenny Beats. I'm 657 00:37:41,276 --> 00:37:41,956 Speaker 1: justin Richmond.