WEBVTT - Ep. 028 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:05.040 This is the Meat Eater Podcast. We're in Douglas, Arizona, 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:12.960 gonna be crossing into Agua Prieta, Mexico tomorrow to hunt 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:19.280 for cous dear or cows gear dear or what all 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:25.960 pronunciations exist out there? Cows. I don't like cows, cows, 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:32.360 cows and cows, So don't now go and tell waste 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.519 your time telling me that it's not actually cus dear. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.320 Chris Denham, and I've said this before. Chris Denham said, 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.840 he's you know, he's been. I think he's probably written 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.919 more pages and published more pages of information about this 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:51.000 animal than probably any man alive. And he said that 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.040 he will call him CU's dear till the day he 0:00:53.159 --> 0:01:01.760 dies fighting words. I agree. I'm here with your honest 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:06.520 to tell us, maker of the famous hunt eat t shirts, 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:10.440 how's that going? Johnnie, Great, Steve, Thanks Um Janice was 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:12.679 just telling us before we started about how all the 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:17.520 money he's made out on hunt eat t shirts. Jay Scott, 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:19.640 who's here with us, noticed that Yannest actually has money 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.679 falling out of his pocket, a little small pile of 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.840 it here on this If you ever are fixing to 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.640 get a hunt Eat T shirt, do it now because 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:28.720 he's almost made so much money he's gonna be getting 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.760 out of the business. For our other two guests here, 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.160 y honesties to make a shirt, says hunt to measure 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.440 because Jay Scott, Dark Holburn here and these guys are 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.480 the guys that find the biggest critters running around in 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.920 the mountains. They just go and look real quiet and 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:49.800 patient and find him. And um, we're crossing tomorrow to 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.160 go hunt in Mexico. We're not actually hunting together. You 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.480 guys have clients, multiple clients going down and we're kind 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:01.880 of riding on the um Dark Holbur and Jay Scott 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.840 coattails by getting some access on to a place to 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.720 go hunt. But you guys got well, what's time? January 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.440 is right? You spent all January down here hunting cruised here. Yeah, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.960 typically January during the rut. What's your annual schedule like 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:23.760 with guiding, Ah starts in September usually for ELK H 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.000 September ELK and then cheap we start scouting in November 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:31.240 and hunt cheap in December and then pretty much januarysus 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.079 deer down to Mexico. And you guys, you don't like Jay, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.000 You're the only one, you don't. You don't do turkey anymore, 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:41.000 right thar I'm back in this year, so I don't. 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.440 I don't know if you followed turkeys at all. There's 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:51.880 something kind of interesting where there's in North like in 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:56.320 the New World. You get two kinds of turkeys. You 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.000 got just the regular American wild turkey, and then you 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.680 have a thing called the oscillated turkey, which lives in 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:09.799 Central America, um extreme southern North America. But then you 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.520 got like the regul old turkey we all know about. 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:16.280 The regular old turkey we all know about is divided 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.640 into five what we've traditionally called subspecies, though a lot 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.560 of geneticists argue that that's a bunch of malarkey and 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.840 that they're not legitimate subspecies. But you have the Eastern 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.520 wild turkey, which is native to the eastern US. Then 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:39.200 you have the uh osciola, which is in the southern 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.040 half of the Florida Panhandle, and that one is the 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.120 one that geneticists say is the least legitimate subspecies because 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.160 there's sort of this arbitrary line which happens to exist 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:53.680 like around Orlando, where everything north of that line is 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.720 the Eastern wild Turkey. Everything south of that line is 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.760 an osciola, and a Turkey could kind of walk back 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.680 and forth from being an eastern to an osciola throughout 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.920 the day. There's some morphological differences, like some coloration stuff, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:10.560 but basically it's kind of like you know what it 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.280 is based on where you shot it. Then you got, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:19.400 uh what real grands Miriams which you're from the south 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:25.320 southwestern US, some Texas and elsewhere. Um, then the five 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.000 is the kind of coolest one in my opinion. The Goulds. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.080 It's hard to find the ghouls. There's some Gould's tags 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:38.000 in here in Arizona. I put in form, never drawn him. Um, 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.279 very limited. But most guys that want to get what 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.880 are you looking at me for? I just wanted? Is 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:50.680 that the only? Uh? Now, if you pay attention to 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:56.360 such things, there's a there's a thing called the Grand Slam. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.320 I have a Turkey Grand Slam in that I have 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:03.320 killed all all five kinds of turkeys, Royal Slam, and 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.000 you have the world Slam. No, I don't have the 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.919 world slams. I've never killed an oscillator. I have the 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.960 what what kind of slam do I have? Royal Okay, 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:16.160 a grand slam is a dude who kills four the ones. Yeah, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.600 for the four main South pieces of turkeys are for 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.839 most readily available wild turkeys. I realized this is a 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:26.880 major turkey geek stuff. But the Royal Slams when you 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:32.800 pick up the Goulds, people who are into turkeys usually 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.160 I'm pulling this out of my ass. Of the guys 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.039 that need one more turkey to get a Royal Slam 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:47.120 need a Goulds. Of the guys that need one more 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.800 turkey to get a Royal Slam need an Osceola. I'm 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:54.400 pulling out of my ask. But it's somewhere around there. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.719 If you want to get a Gould's, uh, you know, 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.599 you you a long shot draw and it's like a 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:04.719 desert turkey. You know, they live in like the sky 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.640 island areas down into Mexico. If you want to get 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:09.400 the googles, you do a long shot draw and draw 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:14.360 a tag, or you call up Jay Scott in dark Holburn. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:22.400 That's the only two ways, right, Well, because these guys, 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:24.800 these guys spend a lot of time in Mexico and 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:26.760 they spend a lot of times scouting down there. Did 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.440 you guys get into interested in Mexico because the cousier 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.640 because of turkeys. And then you're like, holy sh it, 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.000 there's a lot of turkeys running around here. I have 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:37.880 a funny story just I know you go off on tangents, 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.800 but just a quick tangent down here, Well, why does 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:47.320 why does the fact that I do is that relevant? Show? 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.520 I was going off on a tangent. I appreciate the warning. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.280 I was down here. You know, I've always wanted to 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.440 get straws so we could drink beer through straws. And 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.240 it didn't make a funny noise, and so I'm gonna 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.040 do that. No one will know, just because it to 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.719 make any noise. Quick tangent. I was down here scouting 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:07.400 ranches uh In in the late summer, early fall, and 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.360 I was looking at the ranch and they were making charcoal, 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.640 and we come up to the to the pit where 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.560 they're making it, and out walks the freaking guy from 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.160 the show we filmed down here three years ago, the 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.320 guy that cooked with you on the charcoal charcoal guy, 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.600 same guy just doing a contract of another ring, different ranch, 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.880 I mean hundred miles from there, and I got a 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.360 picture of it with him. I was gonna send it 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.840 to you. Yeah, but the same crazy process man, and 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.320 some thankless work is smolder and giant pits of charcoal, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.640 he remembered dark. Yeah, put his arm around. Yeah, it 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.600 was funny. I was talking to these boys from National 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.800 Wild Turkey Federation, and they were talking about when they 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.239 were bringing they were getting Google's out of Google's turkeys 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.800 out of Mexico in order to do try to get 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.920 them re established on native range in the United States. 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:59.880 And they went down and struck a deal with the 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:07.600 Iron Mexico Um that they wanted twenty turkeys and he 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.800 was supposed to establish his bait stations to catch turkeys. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.640 And they would go down and use cannon traps, you know, 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.080 shoots like an explosive charge and shoots the net out 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.040 to catch birds. Because when they had originally were trying 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.520 to do turkey reintroductions, you know, like turkeys got their 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.040 dicks knocked in the dirt, like there used to be turkeys, 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.680 and you know, the time of European contactors turkeys and 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.480 thirty nine states or something like that. By the nineteen 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.280 thirties they were mostly gone. You could you couldn't legally 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.520 hunt them barely anywhere South Carolina had a few um 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:45.200 they got wiped off the planet and they came back 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.240 through just careful work, primarily by National Wild Turkey Federation 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.160 and a bunch of state agencies. But anyhow, they would 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.800 do hatch raised birds, but the hat raies birds they 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.760 don't live that they just get decimated by predators and weather. 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.360 So they started realizing no wady established her he's is 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.240 to catch wild ones and move him. You can't raise 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:05.520 him and depend and let him go. So he started 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.439 coming down to Mexico to catch these birds and they paid. 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.480 They struck a deal with this guy in Mexico to 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.000 establish his base stations. And when he made the deal, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.959 he was excited to get the work, but he misunderstood 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:21.040 the deal. He thought he was getting a set amount. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.280 It was real happy to do it, not knowing that 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.880 he was getting that amount for each bird up to 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.920 twenty So he's hauling fifty pounds stacks of corn all 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.480 over in the mountains. They come down and catch all 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.320 these birds and he thinks, I can't remember what it was, 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:40.080 but he thinks he's getting like a hundred bucks. But 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.040 this dude was telling me I turned around and handing 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.440 him the money, and he was off by you know, 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.680 a factor of twenty. So he turns around, hands the 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:51.800 guy at two thousand dollars, he said. The guy wept. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.920 That's awesome. He thought he's doing all that, he said, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.440 this guy is just happily packing around all this stuff. 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:03.080 So that's how the googles that came up here came 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.160 up here. Um, what else about that? What I actually 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.720 wanted to do is do some of our thing we 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.560 do is that's it's popular with listeners as we do 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.120 fan questions. That's good to have Jay and Dar here 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.079 because they can weigh in on a bunch of these issues. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.559 These are good talking points. This gives you a chance 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:24.679 to kind of hit on a lot of things that 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:29.400 are going around in the what in the worlds of wildlife, hunting, fishing? 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:34.840 I don't know, do you'll need might pick one out first. Yep. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.199 I like this one because you have a Now is 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:40.720 the one that Ja and Dar is gonna be interested 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.319 in or not? You know? Definitely? I think so. I 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.160 think they can definitely weigh in on it because from 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:47.920 talking to him of the last couple of days, they're 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.199 kind of dealing with some of the stuff that I 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.440 think we'll talk about from this question. The question is 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:59.000 it's it's under the heading of basic beginner advice. What 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.920 hunting norm exists and how would a new hunter go 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.120 about learning them. I'd like to hear your advice for 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.720 the absolute beginning hunter, not equipment or scouting tips, as 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.600 much as the stuff most people learn while growing up hunting, 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.439 like the unwritten rules of hunting public lands. For example, 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.120 in my area central North Carolina, we have lots of 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.920 small tracks of public land and squirrel season starts during 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.480 deer season. Can I wander around looking for squirrels without 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.640 ruining someone else's hunting? Do big game hunters take precedent? 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.959 And I like that question because we just heard a 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.960 story about that. We just heard a story up in Michigan. 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.320 We were down we can talk. Yeah, yeah, we were 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.360 in Kentucky. Heard a story about Michigan. We're down in 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.760 Kentucky hunt with a small game. I honest said that, Uh, 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.360 this guy we were with in Kentucky's name is Kevin Weaver. 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.760 That he is to Kevin, sorry, Kevin Weavers a gunmaker. 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:53.439 Kevin Murphy. Kevin Murphy is two squirrels what Neil de 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.880 grass Tyson is to the cosmos. He's a squirrel man 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.760 through and through raises squirrel dog his hunt squirrels. He 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.679 was telling me that he left his home state of 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.640 Kentucky and went up to hunt squirrels and Manestee National 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.559 Forest in Michigan. He's out running his dogs and gets 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.560 a bow hunter so pissed at him that the guys 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:19.240 following him around yelling obscenities at him. I would have 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:25.800 punched that guy in the face. That's my take on it. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.600 Public land, dude, why does the guy bow hunt deer 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.440 have more say than someone else. I think there's things 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.640 you can do. If you were to see a bow 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:38.719 hunter in a treat Absolutely, you have an obligation not out. Yeah, 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.800 you have an obligation, a moral obligation to work around him. 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.440 But to say that you're not gonna squirrel hunt because 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:49.400 it's bow season, I think it's ridiculous. I had a 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:54.040 situation I was guiding an elk hunter and um here 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.800 in central Arizona and there are bulls bugling all around, 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.720 and we were kind of it was an afternoon hunt. 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.679 We're kind of going after our first bull. All of 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:10.679 a sudden, here lying guys bear dogs. Well, you can 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.280 hunt bear. It's a very liberal season, was right during 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.280 the two weeks ARCHERYOK season. So what I would say is, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.440 if you have an animal that you cant all the time, 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.040 or a very liberal season, maybe you ought to maybe 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.480 not go when the guys only have stay a two 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.560 weeks season. That's my take. I think it's a lot 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:32.520 of people's takes. I just had this conversation with my 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.120 friend Jared Fink in Wisconsin and we were kicking around 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.720 the idea of doing having Kevin Murphy from Kentucky come 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.280 up to Wisconsin on farmland, which he would think he 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:43.920 died and gone to heaven because the squirrels are there 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.600 to sit and bark at you. It was a Kentucky 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.320 You're smart any I was saying, man, we ought to 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.079 do it before uh gun season. He's like, he crazy 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.200 has both season. People are gonna let you on their 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.960 land hunting squirrels during both season. So it's a common Yeah, 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.040 I think a lot of people think that. Me personally, well, 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:03.360 I don't think you should do it. I don't think 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.600 you should be able to hike or walk or ride 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:13.319 a bike or anything like that. But ever I personally 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.160 would say, you know, it's up to the Fish and 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.560 Game departments to maybe structure the hunts. We're up on 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.880 the strip this year. There's thirteen b in Arizona. It's 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.800 a ten day season, fourteen day, no ten nine or 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:34.040 ten ten day season. Um, it's the most coveted the world, 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:38.240 I mean, one of the best, better than the and 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.880 and there's seventy deer text in a huge area but 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.880 low deer density. You know, it's a it's a yeah. 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.600 You guys can go days about seeing a box, right, Yes, 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.800 So there's a ten day window for this hunt. Well, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.120 it opens the same time as the Chucker season, which 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.000 is like I want to say, it's almost three months 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.720 and we saw chucker hunters out there, and I mean 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.760 there's people that have waited twenty years for this tag. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.560 Why not push the Chucker season back ten days? And 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.880 so there isn't even a conflict. I mean that seventy 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.000 deer hunters, how many chucker hunters are there? How many 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:22.240 field days? Maybe they're just trying to maximize people's opportunities 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.120 to get out. I see where you're calling from. But 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.800 what's ten days later gonna matter? When in ten days 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:31.680 no one's gonna be hunting deer the place to be 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.160 a ghost town and they can run to from you know, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.280 second week in in November to February like they do. 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.600 You know the fishing writer John Gurrick, I think it's 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.280 how he says the last name. He had a great 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.800 line where he said, there's two kinds of fishermen. Does 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.160 the guys in your party and then there's the assholes. 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.160 It's like, it's just kind of it's kind of like that, 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.280 and I think that you had the key that you said, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.520 though Darry said like it's up to the fishing game. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.080 I was like, when people have questions like this about 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:02.640 what's the right thing to do, the wrong it's gonna do, 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.520 I think of them can be answered by, well, what's 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:06.800 in the what Let's take a look at what the 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.200 hunting regulations say, because a lots of stuff isn't really 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.440 shouldn't really be guesswork, you look like, am I allowed 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.880 to be out hunting squirrels right now? I am? You're 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.800 talking legal versus so what I'm saying like, I don't 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.840 think that it's some guy's job who wants to do 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.920 a little squirrel hunt and whatever. Let's say it's his 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.520 kids got some time off school, he wants to do 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.800 some squirrel hunt. I don't think it's his job to 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.560 sit down and figure out what will my squirrel hunting 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.840 negatively impact someone who supposedly is doing something more valuable 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.160 by hunting deer. I think it's us. I think if 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:42.880 you've got a problem with I think, like you said, 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.960 maybe maybe the state Fish and Game Agency might look 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.840 and try to alleviate some of those conflicts. And I 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.280 think in a lot of places they do do that, 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.000 like for like Wisconsin used to have a lot of 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.680 regulations about being out small game hunt in the day 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.800 before deer season and all that kind of stuff. All right, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:05.560 I'm gonna bite on this one. Yeah, So you're saying, 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.760 I'm not even gonna reply. You're saying, if you could 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.520 kill what is a squirrel? Limit squirrels anywhere from four 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:17.119 to no limit throughout the Great Country, so you can 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.879 just roll out and start blasting, and a bow hunter 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.400 or a guy in a deer stands got one dear 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.600 tag to shoot one year. Now I'm talking about Arizona 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.080 because Arizona that you know, it's a draw one year, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.359 it's you know, twenty years to get the tag. And 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.879 so the chucker can go out and shoot fifteen chucker 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.800 for the next ninety days. My thing would be put 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.320 yourself in the position of whatever hunt that you might 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.080 go and interfere, and if you feel like you would 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.119 be interfering, then not do it. Wait till that season 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.199 is over, and then go knock yourself off. So you 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.240 think that should be the perfect you think that should 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.880 be the responsibility. That's the responsibility of a guy who 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.119 wants to do a little hunt with his kids. I 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:12.560 think it's the department. I think hunter should like put 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.600 themselves in the other person's situation and say I'm not 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.840 going to screw up their hunt. We can we can, 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.800 you know, squirrel hunt or chucker hunt anytime, or quail hunt. 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.719 Let's not go out, then let's find something else to do. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:26.320 Or let's go in an area where there's not a 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.280 lot of deer and let's stay away from him, and 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.639 let's be courteous to the fellow hunter. How often do 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:36.359 you cancel your planned activities on account of not wanting 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.800 to inconvenience other people. Do you ever go to put 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.280 your boat in a river and be like, you know, 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.919 probably not a good day. A lot of shore fisherman today, 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.560 I will tell you when I'm rolling down the river, 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:54.000 and when when I see people on the side of 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.520 the river, I go to the other side and go 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.719 buy them and don't even go through their water, so 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.040 I would say, And I see a lot of other 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.120 guides do it too, So I mean, I think it's 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.200 common to be, you know, curteious, courteous to your fellow man. 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:10.920 So that's a good point. Put yourself in the other 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.320 person's shoes, and what would you do? You are like 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.800 you two are like as tight as as my friend 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.439 Doug says. You guys like nots on a dog. Whenever 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:19.879 I see one of you, I see both of you. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:21.800 And the fact that one are you saying it's an 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.159 ethical issue and one of you saying it's a legal issue, 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.440 shows that there is a place j ends and dar 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:35.119 begin or vice versa. All Right, I don't know if 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:39.560 we settled that answer to your question specifically specifically for 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:44.080 that person, though I think that certainly, uh, they can 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.920 go squirrel hunting during deer season, especially in the place 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.440 like North Carolina where most likely the deer hunter has 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.120 ten deer tags. They can feel, you know, But they're 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.679 asking the question should I do it? Is it okay? 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.000 So they're actually thinking about it, where a lot of 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.199 people don't even think about other people. They just go 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:09.040 do what they want to do. I want to do 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:10.960 two total quickies and no, not even I don't. I 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.440 don't even want you guys even open your mouth. Then 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:15.919 we'll get the one that you that you guys have 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.199 good something good to say about. Uh. I thought we 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.160 even did this one before. Environmental stance. What's you take 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:26.680 on environmental issues? Me? I'm a single issue kind of guy. 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.040 I look at yeah, clean air, clean water, what's good 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.280 for wildlife? That's how I make up my mind about stuff. 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.399 Opinion on b h A, I love b h A. 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.160 He's referring to Bad Country Hunters and Anglers. UM, there's 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.879 a handful of conservation groups that I belong to. This 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.240 This is actually segues into another question I saw about. 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.679 How do you decide which groups to join? I support 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:58.080 a handful of conservation organizations. There are many great ones, UM. 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.160 I tend to pick the ones I like because they 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.760 speak to things that I like a lot. They speak 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:05.959 to animals that I like a lot. They have proven 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:12.400 track records. UM. One of the groups that I support 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.960 and advocate on behalf of is a group called back 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.639 Country Hunters and Anglers. Basically, I mean they work on 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:19.959 a lot of things, but one of the things they 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.159 work on is access issues. Um. They try to preserve 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.560 the integrity of wilderness areas and back country areas, and 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.919 they try to open up access. Two lands four hunters 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.760 and anglers. And they fight for stream access laws so 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.920 that people can't lock you out of streams, so people 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:45.560 can't lock you out of public ground that's surrounded by buffers. Um. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.920 They're a great organization. That's my opinion. Now, before we 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:49.600 started need to stop it, Let's say a quick break. 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.240 Here's one that like that I spent a lot of 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.639 time thinking about and arguing with people about, and I 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.840 don't really know, man, I'm kind of starting to. Let 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:02.800 me tell you what it is. First, is hunter recruitment 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:06.480 is scam. I think the discussion on hunter recruitment and 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:08.600 why it's a scam should be touched on in more depth. 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.640 I've seen a destroy fishing off my coast, and now 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:13.600 it's working its way into hunting. I assume he means 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:19.080 he's seen fishering recruitment destroy fishing, your brother, meaning my 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:23.439 brother is spot on. Hunter recruitment is an essence hanging 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:31.200 your own noose. Yeah, yeah, no, it's so complicated, dude, 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:33.520 it would take forever to explain this. But here's the thing. 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.080 I California. Let's start. Let's talk about California from it. 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.480 California has less than one, less than one percent of 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:51.719 Californian's hunt. The national average is five or six percent 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.600 of Americans hunt. Some states that gets up pretty high, 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.160 and a ten and more. Some stay it's much lower. 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:03.040 California's less than one percent. I recently had a very 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:12.159 high ranking person within California's fishing game department expressed me 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:14.480 off the record, so I got I canna tell you 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:18.880 who he is. He feels in twenty five years, it's 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:24.080 gonna be all gone in California. It'll be done. What 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:31.600 happens is people who are opposed to hunting whittle away 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.680 around the edges of hunting. If you call up and 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:38.760 ask Americans do you support legal hunting? An overwhelming majority 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:41.560 say they support legal hunting. The minute you start asking 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:45.200 them specifics, like what about hunting bears the dogs? Well, 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.760