1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast. We're in Douglas, Arizona, 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: gonna be crossing into Agua Prieta, Mexico tomorrow to hunt 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: for cous dear or cows gear dear or what all 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: pronunciations exist out there? Cows. I don't like cows, cows, 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: cows and cows, So don't now go and tell waste 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: your time telling me that it's not actually cus dear. 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Chris Denham, and I've said this before. Chris Denham said, 8 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: he's you know, he's been. I think he's probably written 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: more pages and published more pages of information about this 10 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: animal than probably any man alive. And he said that 11 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: he will call him CU's dear till the day he 12 00:00:53,159 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: dies fighting words. I agree. I'm here with your honest 13 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: to tell us, maker of the famous hunt eat t shirts, 14 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: how's that going? Johnnie, Great, Steve, Thanks Um Janice was 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: just telling us before we started about how all the 16 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: money he's made out on hunt eat t shirts. Jay Scott, 17 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: who's here with us, noticed that Yannest actually has money 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: falling out of his pocket, a little small pile of 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: it here on this If you ever are fixing to 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: get a hunt Eat T shirt, do it now because 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: he's almost made so much money he's gonna be getting 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: out of the business. For our other two guests here, 23 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: y honesties to make a shirt, says hunt to measure 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: because Jay Scott, Dark Holburn here and these guys are 25 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: the guys that find the biggest critters running around in 26 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: the mountains. They just go and look real quiet and 27 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: patient and find him. And um, we're crossing tomorrow to 28 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: go hunt in Mexico. We're not actually hunting together. You 29 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: guys have clients, multiple clients going down and we're kind 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: of riding on the um Dark Holbur and Jay Scott 31 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: coattails by getting some access on to a place to 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: go hunt. But you guys got well, what's time? January 33 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: is right? You spent all January down here hunting cruised here. Yeah, 34 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: typically January during the rut. What's your annual schedule like 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: with guiding, Ah starts in September usually for ELK H 36 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: September ELK and then cheap we start scouting in November 37 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: and hunt cheap in December and then pretty much januarysus 38 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: deer down to Mexico. And you guys, you don't like Jay, 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: You're the only one, you don't. You don't do turkey anymore, 40 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: right thar I'm back in this year, so I don't. 41 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if you followed turkeys at all. There's 42 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: something kind of interesting where there's in North like in 43 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: the New World. You get two kinds of turkeys. You 44 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: got just the regular American wild turkey, and then you 45 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: have a thing called the oscillated turkey, which lives in 46 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: Central America, um extreme southern North America. But then you 47 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: got like the regul old turkey we all know about. 48 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: The regular old turkey we all know about is divided 49 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: into five what we've traditionally called subspecies, though a lot 50 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: of geneticists argue that that's a bunch of malarkey and 51 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: that they're not legitimate subspecies. But you have the Eastern 52 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: wild turkey, which is native to the eastern US. Then 53 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: you have the uh osciola, which is in the southern 54 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: half of the Florida Panhandle, and that one is the 55 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: one that geneticists say is the least legitimate subspecies because 56 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: there's sort of this arbitrary line which happens to exist 57 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: like around Orlando, where everything north of that line is 58 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: the Eastern wild Turkey. Everything south of that line is 59 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: an osciola, and a Turkey could kind of walk back 60 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: and forth from being an eastern to an osciola throughout 61 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: the day. There's some morphological differences, like some coloration stuff, 62 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: but basically it's kind of like you know what it 63 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: is based on where you shot it. Then you got, 64 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: uh what real grands Miriams which you're from the south 65 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: southwestern US, some Texas and elsewhere. Um, then the five 66 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: is the kind of coolest one in my opinion. The Goulds. 67 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: It's hard to find the ghouls. There's some Gould's tags 68 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: in here in Arizona. I put in form, never drawn him. Um, 69 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: very limited. But most guys that want to get what 70 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: are you looking at me for? I just wanted? Is 71 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: that the only? Uh? Now, if you pay attention to 72 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: such things, there's a there's a thing called the Grand Slam. 73 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: I have a Turkey Grand Slam in that I have 74 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: killed all all five kinds of turkeys, Royal Slam, and 75 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: you have the world Slam. No, I don't have the 76 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: world slams. I've never killed an oscillator. I have the 77 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: what what kind of slam do I have? Royal Okay, 78 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: a grand slam is a dude who kills four the ones. Yeah, 79 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: for the four main South pieces of turkeys are for 80 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: most readily available wild turkeys. I realized this is a 81 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: major turkey geek stuff. But the Royal Slams when you 82 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: pick up the Goulds, people who are into turkeys usually 83 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: I'm pulling this out of my ass. Of the guys 84 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: that need one more turkey to get a Royal Slam 85 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: need a Goulds. Of the guys that need one more 86 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: turkey to get a Royal Slam need an Osceola. I'm 87 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: pulling out of my ask. But it's somewhere around there. 88 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: If you want to get a Gould's, uh, you know, 89 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: you you a long shot draw and it's like a 90 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: desert turkey. You know, they live in like the sky 91 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: island areas down into Mexico. If you want to get 92 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: the googles, you do a long shot draw and draw 93 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: a tag, or you call up Jay Scott in dark Holburn. 94 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: That's the only two ways, right, Well, because these guys, 95 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: these guys spend a lot of time in Mexico and 96 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: they spend a lot of times scouting down there. Did 97 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: you guys get into interested in Mexico because the cousier 98 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: because of turkeys. And then you're like, holy sh it, 99 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of turkeys running around here. I have 100 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: a funny story just I know you go off on tangents, 101 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: but just a quick tangent down here, Well, why does 102 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: why does the fact that I do is that relevant? Show? 103 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: I was going off on a tangent. I appreciate the warning. 104 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: I was down here. You know, I've always wanted to 105 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: get straws so we could drink beer through straws. And 106 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: it didn't make a funny noise, and so I'm gonna 107 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: do that. No one will know, just because it to 108 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: make any noise. Quick tangent. I was down here scouting 109 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: ranches uh In in the late summer, early fall, and 110 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: I was looking at the ranch and they were making charcoal, 111 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: and we come up to the to the pit where 112 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: they're making it, and out walks the freaking guy from 113 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: the show we filmed down here three years ago, the 114 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: guy that cooked with you on the charcoal charcoal guy, 115 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: same guy just doing a contract of another ring, different ranch, 116 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: I mean hundred miles from there, and I got a 117 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: picture of it with him. I was gonna send it 118 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: to you. Yeah, but the same crazy process man, and 119 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: some thankless work is smolder and giant pits of charcoal, 120 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: he remembered dark. Yeah, put his arm around. Yeah, it 121 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: was funny. I was talking to these boys from National 122 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation, and they were talking about when they 123 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,239 Speaker 1: were bringing they were getting Google's out of Google's turkeys 124 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: out of Mexico in order to do try to get 125 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: them re established on native range in the United States. 126 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: And they went down and struck a deal with the 127 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: Iron Mexico Um that they wanted twenty turkeys and he 128 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: was supposed to establish his bait stations to catch turkeys. 129 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: And they would go down and use cannon traps, you know, 130 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: shoots like an explosive charge and shoots the net out 131 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: to catch birds. Because when they had originally were trying 132 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: to do turkey reintroductions, you know, like turkeys got their 133 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: dicks knocked in the dirt, like there used to be turkeys, 134 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: and you know, the time of European contactors turkeys and 135 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: thirty nine states or something like that. By the nineteen 136 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: thirties they were mostly gone. You could you couldn't legally 137 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: hunt them barely anywhere South Carolina had a few um 138 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: they got wiped off the planet and they came back 139 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: through just careful work, primarily by National Wild Turkey Federation 140 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: and a bunch of state agencies. But anyhow, they would 141 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: do hatch raised birds, but the hat raies birds they 142 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: don't live that they just get decimated by predators and weather. 143 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: So they started realizing no wady established her he's is 144 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: to catch wild ones and move him. You can't raise 145 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: him and depend and let him go. So he started 146 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: coming down to Mexico to catch these birds and they paid. 147 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: They struck a deal with this guy in Mexico to 148 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: establish his base stations. And when he made the deal, 149 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: he was excited to get the work, but he misunderstood 150 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: the deal. He thought he was getting a set amount. 151 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: It was real happy to do it, not knowing that 152 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: he was getting that amount for each bird up to 153 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: twenty So he's hauling fifty pounds stacks of corn all 154 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: over in the mountains. They come down and catch all 155 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: these birds and he thinks, I can't remember what it was, 156 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: but he thinks he's getting like a hundred bucks. But 157 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: this dude was telling me I turned around and handing 158 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: him the money, and he was off by you know, 159 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: a factor of twenty. So he turns around, hands the 160 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: guy at two thousand dollars, he said. The guy wept. 161 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: That's awesome. He thought he's doing all that, he said, 162 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: this guy is just happily packing around all this stuff. 163 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: So that's how the googles that came up here came 164 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: up here. Um, what else about that? What I actually 165 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: wanted to do is do some of our thing we 166 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: do is that's it's popular with listeners as we do 167 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: fan questions. That's good to have Jay and Dar here 168 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: because they can weigh in on a bunch of these issues. 169 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: These are good talking points. This gives you a chance 170 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: to kind of hit on a lot of things that 171 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: are going around in the what in the worlds of wildlife, hunting, fishing? 172 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, do you'll need might pick one out first. Yep. 173 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: I like this one because you have a Now is 174 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: the one that Ja and Dar is gonna be interested 175 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: in or not? You know? Definitely? I think so. I 176 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: think they can definitely weigh in on it because from 177 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: talking to him of the last couple of days, they're 178 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: kind of dealing with some of the stuff that I 179 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: think we'll talk about from this question. The question is 180 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: it's it's under the heading of basic beginner advice. What 181 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: hunting norm exists and how would a new hunter go 182 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: about learning them. I'd like to hear your advice for 183 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: the absolute beginning hunter, not equipment or scouting tips, as 184 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: much as the stuff most people learn while growing up hunting, 185 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: like the unwritten rules of hunting public lands. For example, 186 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: in my area central North Carolina, we have lots of 187 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: small tracks of public land and squirrel season starts during 188 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: deer season. Can I wander around looking for squirrels without 189 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: ruining someone else's hunting? Do big game hunters take precedent? 190 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: And I like that question because we just heard a 191 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: story about that. We just heard a story up in Michigan. 192 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: We were down we can talk. Yeah, yeah, we were 193 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: in Kentucky. Heard a story about Michigan. We're down in 194 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: Kentucky hunt with a small game. I honest said that, Uh, 195 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: this guy we were with in Kentucky's name is Kevin Weaver. 196 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: That he is to Kevin, sorry, Kevin Weavers a gunmaker. 197 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: Kevin Murphy. Kevin Murphy is two squirrels what Neil de 198 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: grass Tyson is to the cosmos. He's a squirrel man 199 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: through and through raises squirrel dog his hunt squirrels. He 200 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: was telling me that he left his home state of 201 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: Kentucky and went up to hunt squirrels and Manestee National 202 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: Forest in Michigan. He's out running his dogs and gets 203 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: a bow hunter so pissed at him that the guys 204 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: following him around yelling obscenities at him. I would have 205 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: punched that guy in the face. That's my take on it. 206 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: Public land, dude, why does the guy bow hunt deer 207 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: have more say than someone else. I think there's things 208 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: you can do. If you were to see a bow 209 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 1: hunter in a treat Absolutely, you have an obligation not out. Yeah, 210 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: you have an obligation, a moral obligation to work around him. 211 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: But to say that you're not gonna squirrel hunt because 212 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: it's bow season, I think it's ridiculous. I had a 213 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: situation I was guiding an elk hunter and um here 214 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: in central Arizona and there are bulls bugling all around, 215 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: and we were kind of it was an afternoon hunt. 216 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: We're kind of going after our first bull. All of 217 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: a sudden, here lying guys bear dogs. Well, you can 218 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: hunt bear. It's a very liberal season, was right during 219 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: the two weeks ARCHERYOK season. So what I would say is, 220 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: if you have an animal that you cant all the time, 221 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: or a very liberal season, maybe you ought to maybe 222 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: not go when the guys only have stay a two 223 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: weeks season. That's my take. I think it's a lot 224 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: of people's takes. I just had this conversation with my 225 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: friend Jared Fink in Wisconsin and we were kicking around 226 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: the idea of doing having Kevin Murphy from Kentucky come 227 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: up to Wisconsin on farmland, which he would think he 228 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: died and gone to heaven because the squirrels are there 229 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: to sit and bark at you. It was a Kentucky 230 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: You're smart any I was saying, man, we ought to 231 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: do it before uh gun season. He's like, he crazy 232 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: has both season. People are gonna let you on their 233 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: land hunting squirrels during both season. So it's a common Yeah, 234 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people think that. Me personally, well, 235 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: I don't think you should do it. I don't think 236 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: you should be able to hike or walk or ride 237 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: a bike or anything like that. But ever I personally 238 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: would say, you know, it's up to the Fish and 239 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: Game departments to maybe structure the hunts. We're up on 240 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: the strip this year. There's thirteen b in Arizona. It's 241 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: a ten day season, fourteen day, no ten nine or 242 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: ten ten day season. Um, it's the most coveted the world, 243 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the best, better than the and 244 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: and there's seventy deer text in a huge area but 245 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: low deer density. You know, it's a it's a yeah. 246 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: You guys can go days about seeing a box, right, Yes, 247 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: So there's a ten day window for this hunt. Well, 248 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: it opens the same time as the Chucker season, which 249 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: is like I want to say, it's almost three months 250 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: and we saw chucker hunters out there, and I mean 251 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: there's people that have waited twenty years for this tag. 252 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: Why not push the Chucker season back ten days? And 253 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: so there isn't even a conflict. I mean that seventy 254 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: deer hunters, how many chucker hunters are there? How many 255 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: field days? Maybe they're just trying to maximize people's opportunities 256 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: to get out. I see where you're calling from. But 257 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: what's ten days later gonna matter? When in ten days 258 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: no one's gonna be hunting deer the place to be 259 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: a ghost town and they can run to from you know, 260 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: second week in in November to February like they do. 261 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: You know the fishing writer John Gurrick, I think it's 262 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: how he says the last name. He had a great 263 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: line where he said, there's two kinds of fishermen. Does 264 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: the guys in your party and then there's the assholes. 265 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: It's like, it's just kind of it's kind of like that, 266 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: and I think that you had the key that you said, 267 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: though Darry said like it's up to the fishing game. 268 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: I was like, when people have questions like this about 269 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: what's the right thing to do, the wrong it's gonna do, 270 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: I think of them can be answered by, well, what's 271 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: in the what Let's take a look at what the 272 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: hunting regulations say, because a lots of stuff isn't really 273 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: shouldn't really be guesswork, you look like, am I allowed 274 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: to be out hunting squirrels right now? I am? You're 275 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: talking legal versus so what I'm saying like, I don't 276 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: think that it's some guy's job who wants to do 277 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: a little squirrel hunt and whatever. Let's say it's his 278 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: kids got some time off school, he wants to do 279 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: some squirrel hunt. I don't think it's his job to 280 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: sit down and figure out what will my squirrel hunting 281 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: negatively impact someone who supposedly is doing something more valuable 282 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: by hunting deer. I think it's us. I think if 283 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: you've got a problem with I think, like you said, 284 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: maybe maybe the state Fish and Game Agency might look 285 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: and try to alleviate some of those conflicts. And I 286 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: think in a lot of places they do do that, 287 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: like for like Wisconsin used to have a lot of 288 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: regulations about being out small game hunt in the day 289 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: before deer season and all that kind of stuff. All right, 290 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna bite on this one. Yeah, So you're saying, 291 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna reply. You're saying, if you could 292 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: kill what is a squirrel? Limit squirrels anywhere from four 293 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: to no limit throughout the Great Country, so you can 294 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: just roll out and start blasting, and a bow hunter 295 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: or a guy in a deer stands got one dear 296 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: tag to shoot one year. Now I'm talking about Arizona 297 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: because Arizona that you know, it's a draw one year, 298 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: it's you know, twenty years to get the tag. And 299 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: so the chucker can go out and shoot fifteen chucker 300 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: for the next ninety days. My thing would be put 301 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: yourself in the position of whatever hunt that you might 302 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: go and interfere, and if you feel like you would 303 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: be interfering, then not do it. Wait till that season 304 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: is over, and then go knock yourself off. So you 305 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: think that should be the perfect you think that should 306 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: be the responsibility. That's the responsibility of a guy who 307 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: wants to do a little hunt with his kids. I 308 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: think it's the department. I think hunter should like put 309 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: themselves in the other person's situation and say I'm not 310 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: going to screw up their hunt. We can we can, 311 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, squirrel hunt or chucker hunt anytime, or quail hunt. 312 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 1: Let's not go out, then let's find something else to do. 313 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: Or let's go in an area where there's not a 314 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: lot of deer and let's stay away from him, and 315 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: let's be courteous to the fellow hunter. How often do 316 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: you cancel your planned activities on account of not wanting 317 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: to inconvenience other people. Do you ever go to put 318 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: your boat in a river and be like, you know, 319 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: probably not a good day. A lot of shore fisherman today, 320 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: I will tell you when I'm rolling down the river, 321 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: and when when I see people on the side of 322 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: the river, I go to the other side and go 323 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: buy them and don't even go through their water, so 324 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: I would say, And I see a lot of other 325 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: guides do it too, So I mean, I think it's 326 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: common to be, you know, curteious, courteous to your fellow man. 327 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: So that's a good point. Put yourself in the other 328 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: person's shoes, and what would you do? You are like 329 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: you two are like as tight as as my friend 330 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: Doug says. You guys like nots on a dog. Whenever 331 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: I see one of you, I see both of you. 332 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: And the fact that one are you saying it's an 333 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: ethical issue and one of you saying it's a legal issue, 334 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: shows that there is a place j ends and dar 335 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: begin or vice versa. All Right, I don't know if 336 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: we settled that answer to your question specifically specifically for 337 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: that person, though I think that certainly, uh, they can 338 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: go squirrel hunting during deer season, especially in the place 339 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: like North Carolina where most likely the deer hunter has 340 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: ten deer tags. They can feel, you know, But they're 341 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: asking the question should I do it? Is it okay? 342 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: So they're actually thinking about it, where a lot of 343 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: people don't even think about other people. They just go 344 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: do what they want to do. I want to do 345 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: two total quickies and no, not even I don't. I 346 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: don't even want you guys even open your mouth. Then 347 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: we'll get the one that you that you guys have 348 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: good something good to say about. Uh. I thought we 349 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: even did this one before. Environmental stance. What's you take 350 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: on environmental issues? Me? I'm a single issue kind of guy. 351 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: I look at yeah, clean air, clean water, what's good 352 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: for wildlife? That's how I make up my mind about stuff. 353 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: Opinion on b h A, I love b h A. 354 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: He's referring to Bad Country Hunters and Anglers. UM, there's 355 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: a handful of conservation groups that I belong to. This 356 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: This is actually segues into another question I saw about. 357 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: How do you decide which groups to join? I support 358 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: a handful of conservation organizations. There are many great ones, UM. 359 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: I tend to pick the ones I like because they 360 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: speak to things that I like a lot. They speak 361 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: to animals that I like a lot. They have proven 362 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: track records. UM. One of the groups that I support 363 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: and advocate on behalf of is a group called back 364 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: Country Hunters and Anglers. Basically, I mean they work on 365 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:19,959 Speaker 1: a lot of things, but one of the things they 366 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: work on is access issues. Um. They try to preserve 367 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: the integrity of wilderness areas and back country areas, and 368 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: they try to open up access. Two lands four hunters 369 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: and anglers. And they fight for stream access laws so 370 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: that people can't lock you out of streams, so people 371 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: can't lock you out of public ground that's surrounded by buffers. Um. 372 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: They're a great organization. That's my opinion. Now, before we 373 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: started need to stop it, Let's say a quick break. 374 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: Here's one that like that I spent a lot of 375 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: time thinking about and arguing with people about, and I 376 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: don't really know, man, I'm kind of starting to. Let 377 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: me tell you what it is. First, is hunter recruitment 378 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: is scam. I think the discussion on hunter recruitment and 379 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: why it's a scam should be touched on in more depth. 380 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: I've seen a destroy fishing off my coast, and now 381 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: it's working its way into hunting. I assume he means 382 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: he's seen fishering recruitment destroy fishing, your brother, meaning my 383 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: brother is spot on. Hunter recruitment is an essence hanging 384 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: your own noose. Yeah, yeah, no, it's so complicated, dude, 385 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: it would take forever to explain this. But here's the thing. 386 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: I California. Let's start. Let's talk about California from it. 387 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: California has less than one, less than one percent of 388 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 1: Californian's hunt. The national average is five or six percent 389 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: of Americans hunt. Some states that gets up pretty high, 390 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: and a ten and more. Some stay it's much lower. 391 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: California's less than one percent. I recently had a very 392 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: high ranking person within California's fishing game department expressed me 393 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: off the record, so I got I canna tell you 394 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: who he is. He feels in twenty five years, it's 395 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: gonna be all gone in California. It'll be done. What 396 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: happens is people who are opposed to hunting whittle away 397 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: around the edges of hunting. If you call up and 398 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: ask Americans do you support legal hunting? An overwhelming majority 399 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: say they support legal hunting. The minute you start asking 400 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: them specifics, like what about hunting bears the dogs? Well, 401 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. What behunt bears it all? Yeah? 402 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: You know they're kind of cute, Okay. The way people 403 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: who are opposed to hunting work is they take specific 404 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: things and bring them to ballot initiatives and other things 405 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: things and and then bring them to votes or bring 406 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: them in front of assemblies and and and shoot you 407 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: down bit by bit by bit incrementalism. It's never gonna 408 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: be that someone says like, let's have a big referendum 409 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: and vote yes or no on hunting. It will never 410 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: happen like that. It just happens piecemeal because on a 411 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: national average, only five percent of Americans hunt. Our futures 412 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: are being decided by the voters going down there. Don't 413 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: even hunt. They're just going down there and weighing in 414 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: and what's their opinion about activity they don't participate in. 415 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: That's why I think that putting forth a strong message 416 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: about hunting and advocating on behalf of hunting and explaining 417 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: hunting and being honest about hunting is productive because it's 418 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: necessary for the general public to see the hunting is worthwhile, 419 00:24:53,720 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: helpful activity. But that alone doesn't solve everything. You there 420 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: has to be some hunters out there who are out 421 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: there doing it, demonstrating it, making it viable. Another thing 422 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: to think about is this your state phishing game agencies. 423 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: Many of them are funded with no hard funding from 424 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: the state. They're funded through licensed sales and permitting. The 425 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: reason they get worried about hunter recruitment is they see 426 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: their budgets for things like research, enforcement of existing laws, 427 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: habitat improvement, shrinking when less licenses get sold. One of 428 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: the main guys I argue about hunting recruitment about with Okay, 429 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: who's adamally opposed to hunter recruitment. I realized that one 430 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: of the main guys I argue with hunter recruitment about 431 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: and he's adamantly opposed to hunter recruitment. And all he 432 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: cares about, he says, is how many trucks you're at 433 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: the trailhead. That's the only thing he cares about. I 434 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: realized that last year he went on a trip that 435 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: was a combo walleye. Dear, I'm sorry he went on 436 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: a trip there was a combo walleye turkey trip. He's 437 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: fishing wall in the river that doesn't have a historic 438 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: population of wall and while they were brought in through 439 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: a state fishery plan, state hatchery, and he's hunting turkeys 440 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: that aren't native to that area, and we're brought in 441 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: by the state Game Agency along with National Wild Turkey Federation. 442 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: So two hunter based initiatives. Put the turkeys on the ground, 443 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: the wall eyes in the river that he's fishing for, 444 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: and then he draws a mountain goat tag and a 445 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: mountain range that mountain goats weren't in until the state 446 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: put him in that mountain range. So you have to 447 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: think long and hard about what you really care about. 448 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: And we're talking about miniscule amounts. But if you think 449 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: it's gonna that you're gonna be the last guy hunting 450 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be a shangri law, no one in 451 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: the trailhead and you're not just gonna get fucked by 452 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: voters and lack of funding for conservation efforts and wildlife 453 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: research and enforcement. To put game wardens on the ground 454 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: to stop poaching requires money. That money comes from like 455 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: Pittman Roberts and stuff. It comes from duck stamps, that 456 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: comes from buying hunting licenses, it comes from buying guns 457 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: and AMMO exercise taxes. Dudes out walking their dogs aren't 458 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: paying for the land. So you know, there's a lot 459 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: of like cutting off your dick despite your balls, man, 460 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: anybody else have any to add of that, I'll add 461 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: something really quick. My my oldest son is eighth grade. 462 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: And it's scary though when I because he hunts a lot, 463 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: and I asked him in his and he knows most 464 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: of the people in in his school sixth through eighth grade, 465 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: and he could name and I think there's probably a 466 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 1: hundred to two D per grade level. He could name 467 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: two kids that had ever hunted before. Yeah, that's scary. 468 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: If if I had a crystal ball and I could 469 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: look into the crystal ball and I could see that 470 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: access would stay the same, and I don't think that 471 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: it would, but forget, I'm not gonna do any qualifiers. 472 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: If I could look at my crystal ball and see 473 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: that wildlife management would be as as viable and as 474 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: productive in the future with no hunters, and that access 475 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: would be as good, The enforcement of wildlife regulations would 476 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: be as good with no hunters, and restocking depleted wildlife 477 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: that happened but through market hunting and stuff in the 478 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: late eighteen Hunters and early nineteen Hunters, which is an 479 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: ongoing process, would still be as vibrant, and I could 480 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: be the only guy that hunts. I'd be a little 481 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: bit tempted, but that's not how it's gonna go. It's 482 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: just not what happens when they put elk back into 483 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: Michigan and Pennsylvania and Kentucky. Who do you think did that? 484 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: When they put big horns and they're still working on 485 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: putting big horns back everywhere they belong. Who you think 486 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: is doing that, Peter? No. Well, one thing I might 487 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: add to, and it's controversial, is you know the big 488 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: auction tags and the big as you call them fat cats, 489 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: you know spending Well, i've heard you say fat cats before, 490 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: not specifically those because of his T shirt coming money 491 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: falling out. Um, you know, that's a whole another controversial subject. 492 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: But the reality we've talked about this though. Without that 493 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: big money goes right into the wildlife. It goes and 494 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: into the wildlife. Yeah, and it's actually set in a 495 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: lot of states. It's set by law that I don't like, 496 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: goes right into habitat improvement. We've talked about that before, 497 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: J and I didn't and I might have said bat cast, 498 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: but I use that term endearingly and it's it's very 499 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: relative and in fact a lot of that money, um 500 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: for like sheep, When those tags are sold, like a 501 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: sheep take, it goes directly to sheep habitat specifically. That's 502 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: how not just not just life, I mean specifically sheep. 503 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: So that's it's a competter recruitment, a scam. I don't 504 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: think so, absolutely not. Here's the thing I have had. 505 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: I understand because I understand the frustration of competition, So 506 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: I get that sentiment. But I have had, through my 507 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: professional life, the occasion to sit down and speak with 508 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: some of the most productive conservationists that are alive today, 509 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: all of them and people that are well meaning and 510 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: have devoted their lives to wildlife. All of them have 511 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: warned me about the possible threats of low hunter numbers, 512 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: and they've all expressed to me that hunters need to 513 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: continue to be as generous with the next generation is 514 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: the previous generation was with us. It's not about us, 515 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: it's about the future generation. One of these same guys. 516 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: And if we're saying hunting is a wildlife management tool, 517 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: I mean if it's if it, if we go away 518 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: and it's not, then I mean it's just it doesn't 519 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: make sense. No, it's not. It's gonna be managed for 520 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: it with a completely different set of criteria. Now, one 521 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: of these guys said to me, uh, the writer I 522 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: was kind of I was having I was speaking around 523 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: the edges of this concert conversation with the Conservations Jim Posswitz, 524 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: and he was relating to me he was at a 525 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: meeting and I had to do with an access issue, 526 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: opening roads into a road this area. And Jim Posswitz is, 527 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: you know, he's an older guy. Now he's in his eighties, 528 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: still very active, still hunts, but you know he, by 529 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: his own admission, he's not the guy He's not the 530 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: hunter he was forty years ago when it comes to 531 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: knocking around on the mountains. Um. He was saying, he's 532 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: at this thing and it was a comment period, and 533 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: the guy got up and it was the older another 534 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: older guy, and he's like, I've been hunting there in 535 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: my whole life and now I can't get in there, 536 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: and I have a right to get in There should 537 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: be a road in there. And Jim Posswitz asked this, says, 538 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: why would you want to deny the experience two upcoming 539 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: generations that you're sitting here telling me meant so much 540 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: to you it's like you had your fun. You know, 541 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: you had your fun. It's time for new people to 542 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: have some fun. I just don't I get it. I 543 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: get where they're all coming from, and I just feel 544 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: that it's in our best interest to stay a to 545 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: remain politically viable, and to fund conservation groups and fund agencies. 546 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: I recently had a conversation with um animal ethicist who 547 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: he's a vegan. He's an animal activist and animal etheticist. 548 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: He's a professor teaches animal ethics. When we were talking 549 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: about this, and he was telling me how he thinks 550 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: it's malarkey that hunters are conservationists, and I was telling 551 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: them about I was just was used as a for 552 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: instance like Ducks Unlimited. How much money Ducks Unlimited members 553 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: and the organization put that just all they're doing is 554 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: buying imperiled wetlands and transferring him into the public trust. 555 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: Can't argue with it. Guys go to banquets, they have 556 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: a couple of drinks, they start bidding on crazy stuff 557 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: in auctions. It generates a bunch of money and in 558 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: other ways outright donations. They love to hunt, They belong 559 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: to du They spend tons of money buying wetlands that 560 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: benefits ducks, aquatic invertebrates, fish, aquatic plants, the entire ecosystem. 561 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: And he's like, he said, well, it's just too bad 562 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: that their motivation has to be shooting ducks. I'm like, 563 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: you know what, It's just that's how it is, dude. 564 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: I don't really care what their motivation is. It inspires them. 565 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: Let's say this hunting ducks inspires them to take money 566 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: out of their pockets and preserve wetlands. I'm sorry again, 567 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: Peter isn't buying wetlands. They're they're worried about like horses 568 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: in Central Park, that that that's bad. They like, it's 569 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: really mean to horses. That's their understanding of wildlife politics. 570 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: Anyone with half a brain knows it. Right now, when 571 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: they're talking about wildlife politics, they should be talking about 572 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: wetlands riparian areas. You know. It's just like, you gotta 573 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: you gotta have people who are on the ground invested 574 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: in wildlife, spending money, giving money, buying licenses, supporting stay 575 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: game agencies. Let's move on. Well, and that that money 576 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: from Pittman, Robertson and all the sports and money doesn't 577 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: just help game animals. I mean, like you said, it 578 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: benefits so many other animals. When foundation goals and put 579 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: together and they go and preserve a piece of elk 580 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: habitat the songbird. He he doesn't know and care that 581 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: it was meant for elt. He's like sweet, you know, 582 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: And they're and they're looking at stuff that is a 583 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: limiting factor issue too, Like a lot of focus on 584 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: winnering habits hat everything benefits. You pick one, Jannie, I 585 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: like this one. How would you how would you cook 586 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: goat testicles? I cook him in butter and put red 587 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: hot on him. I called buck nuts. Now you pick one, Nie? 588 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: Do you eat the heart from the bear you killed? 589 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: And is it good? When I keep bear hearts, I 590 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: grind them up and put them in with bear sausage. 591 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: There's something about psychologically because I have a you know, 592 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm like a conflicted bear guy. Uh. I like to 593 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: hunt bears, and I have hunted bears a lot. I'll 594 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: continue to hunt bears, but I really find that often 595 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: when I'm looking at a bear and I'm fixing to 596 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: go after it, I have this thing where I'm kind 597 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: of torn between watching the bear and going after it. 598 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: That's why I found for me that I like to hunt. 599 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: Instead of hunting bears, I like to go out with 600 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: guys who've never hunted bears and be with them when 601 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: they get their first bear, because there's nothing greater than 602 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: your first bear. You know, a lot of animals just 603 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: keeps getting better and better. I just had my best 604 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: mule tor hunt ever. I've been hunting muledier a long time. 605 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: I just had my best mule der hunt ever. Every 606 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: time I hunt Mulder, it's better and better and better. 607 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: I love it more with bears. My first bear will 608 00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: always be my most exciting bear. Um So yeah, like 609 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: a bear heart. I don't know, man, I got like 610 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: a little bit of a um yeah, I feel a 611 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: little bit. This is hard to explain. It verges on 612 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: a spiritual thing because I associate heart with you know, 613 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: like the like the spirit of something. I know I'm 614 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: getting into some mystical business here, but no, I grind 615 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: it up. I don't think I've ever sliced there. A 616 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: night I made Kevin Murphy's cathead biscuits and fried deer heart. 617 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: The baby ate it, my wife ate it. We all 618 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: loved it. But I've never just sliced up a bear's 619 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: heart made it cat head. It's just bis because I 620 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: don't why they call him cat head, biscus, why they 621 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: call kheads because that's like the size of just the 622 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: size of a cat. I didn't know that. I told 623 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: my kids that those cads, but my kids lead any man. 624 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: They don't care. They don't even know, Like, they don't 625 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: even know about a lot of stuff people eat. Man, 626 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: They just eat. Like I said, there a night there 627 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: just eating deer. They don't even know about that. It's abnormal. Um, 628 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: did you pick one? Yeah? I got another one here. 629 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 1: This guy recently moved to Colorado has a cabin near 630 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: brack and Ridge. It's an area of some good elk hunting. 631 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: He's getting all geared up to go hunt elk in 632 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: September with his bow during the rout, but he's spent 633 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: as much time preparing for the butchering as he is 634 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: for the hunt. And I think that's very small of him. 635 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: And he's asking if we have any tips because you 636 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: don't want to mess it up? Yeah, so he just 637 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: wants to have like his You don't want to be 638 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: like that dude? That uh in John Cracker's book, right. 639 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,359 Speaker 1: Chris McCandless shoots that moose and that's the whole thing, right, 640 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: your what's your guys best? You know, I gonna put 641 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: this one to Jane Dark you guys hunting the hot state? Yeah, 642 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: so what's your what's your just prep look like? At home? 643 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: I mean he's probably done and set after years and 644 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: years of doing it. Oh is he talking about at 645 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: his house around the woods? Oh? Well, he's saying butcher 646 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: in so I I think he means in the field. 647 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: Oh that's what I think he means. Let's just let's 648 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 1: take it both ways, say he means in the field. 649 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: My biggest tip is don't underestimate how big that thing is. 650 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: Be realistic about how far you're willing to go from 651 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: your truck, because for one person to move a bull 652 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: elk three miles is a major undertaking, and you need 653 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: to have a solid plan put together about how many 654 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: people you can get to help you. Are they on 655 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: standby if they're not? What's the weather if it's warm? 656 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: How quickly are you gonna move? Four or five hundred 657 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: pounds of boneless meat in ahead? So four pounds all combined, 658 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: because a hundred pounds at first you're like, oh, it's nothing. 659 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,879 Speaker 1: Three or four trips later, you are dying. So think 660 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, that's huge, man, that list of people 661 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: to call. Also, get the guts out of it quick 662 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: and open up the ball joints in the back legs 663 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: because that's where stuffill sour fastest. But I think mainly 664 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: like make a plan because when you walk up on it, 665 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: you're not gonna be prepared for what's laying there. You 666 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: get a feeling. I get it when I walk up 667 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: on the moos, you get a feeling like what have 668 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: I done? Because you can't even roll it over? You know, 669 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: I would say, first and foremost, you know, depending on 670 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: this experience level, get the hide off of it. Get 671 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: the hide off of it very first and foremost. Yeah, 672 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: the more I would think, the more you can break 673 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: it down, the quicker it's gonna cool off. But that's 674 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: the thing is like an Arizona because tags are so tight, 675 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: you guys always have the lux you're having a lot 676 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: of buddy to hot with you. Well, in our country too, 677 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: isn't extremely rough like Colorado. Most of the stuff, you know, 678 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: we can get too fairly quickly. There's a lot of 679 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: roads in Arizona. So I mean, if you guys have 680 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: a down game retrieval. Yeah, you can vall with a 681 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 1: lot of places. You can drive a one trip deal. 682 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: They say you can go in and get it and 683 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: come out, but we don't. We're not hunting a lot 684 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: of wilderness series too, you know, especially on the early 685 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: hunts when it's so hot, so usually within a mile. Ye. Usually. 686 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: I think that when I hear about guys having uh 687 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,839 Speaker 1: meat spoil, and I'll remind you it's illegal to let 688 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: your meat spoil. Okay, you can't do something dumb and 689 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: get five miles from your truck down in some hell 690 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: hole and kill a bowl and then it gets up 691 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: at seventy five degrees and you don't get out of 692 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: there and it rots. That's against the law man. So 693 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: it's not just about having like yummy steaks. It's like 694 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: you have an obligation to get that animal out of 695 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: the woods and edible form you can get find and 696 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: have your hunting privileges revoked. You cannot waste meat, So 697 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: it's good you're thinking about it. I think just the 698 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: fact that the dude's thinking about it means he's not 699 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: gonna have a problem. So I think it's the guys 700 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: who can never give it any thought, and they go 701 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 1: way too far. They don't have a plan, their legs 702 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: whatever got problem. They haven't notified anybody about the situation. 703 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: They're the ones that probably wind up. Somebody who sits 704 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: around and thinks about for five minutes is probably in 705 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: good shape. Suppressed firearms ethics of using suppressed firearms. I've 706 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: started using a three b LK rifle with a suppressor 707 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: for wild hog control. On my dear lease. Hogs are 708 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: destroying habitat and the only cure is through buster numbers. 709 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: As much as possible, they eat all the meat. What 710 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: are your thoughts on suppressed firearms? You know, I hunted 711 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,720 Speaker 1: in Scotland, which I hated, but I hunted in Scotland 712 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: one time, and in Scotland they couldn't believe that we 713 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: hunt without suppressors because it is dangerous, Like I can't. 714 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: They're like, I can't believe you're allowed to guide people 715 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,919 Speaker 1: without a suppressor and haven't blown your ear drums out. 716 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,720 Speaker 1: That was his take on it. But I was recently 717 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: talking to game Worden and we're talking about technologies in general, drones, 718 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: other technological issues. We got on the subject of suppressors. 719 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: He said to me, he said, one of my most 720 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: effective tools is the gunshot. He's a big bow hunter, 721 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: and when a game warden, no matter what game wardens 722 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: at work, generally, but he just tries to squeeze in 723 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: a little uh bohun. He said. There's been several times 724 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: he could recount, just recent years, when he's sitting in 725 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: his stand and here's a gunshot. He's like, that don't 726 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: sound right, and heads over there, and sure enough, he said, 727 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: getting calls from people I heard a gunshot at night 728 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: out in my field. He says it's a very effective tool. 729 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: He also said the internet is a very effective tool 730 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,359 Speaker 1: as a game warden. But um, he said. He didn't 731 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: want to get into the politics of it, but he said, 732 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: from the perspective of doing my job, I feel that 733 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: I would be seriously handicapped by suppressors. But I also 734 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: understand that blowing you your drums out all time isn't great. 735 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: And I understand too that if you're trying to like 736 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: this guy is saying, control hogs, you can shoot a 737 00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: hell of a lot more hogs without them knowing what's happening. 738 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: Do you think the suppressor gives you an unfair advantage 739 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: on game, on shooting game, I don't think so. I 740 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: don't think it because I mean, how many animals you shooting? Yeah, 741 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: and I mean you're you shoot at something with a 742 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 1: bow and it usually you shoot once and it runs off. No, 743 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: I don't think it means that you're just gonna be 744 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: able to sit there and just set up camp and 745 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 1: start like shooting bullets off at something. Um. I don't 746 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: think that's really what's that issue? The only thing I 747 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,719 Speaker 1: see and and like I said, man, I'm very much 748 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,839 Speaker 1: My tendency is to think that. My My tendency is 749 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: to think that suppressors are not a negative. My one 750 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,959 Speaker 1: reservation is the issue about law, is the issue belt 751 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: poaching an enforcement that like this guy said, he said, 752 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:49,959 Speaker 1: I don't want to get into the politics of it. 753 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: It's a valuable tool for me. I would almost think 754 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,319 Speaker 1: the other way on the safety issue too, that if 755 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: you don't know someone shooting, that could be dangerous. I mean, 756 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. I really want here's my thing I 757 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: want to I would love to have a UM, I 758 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: really want to suppress twenty two just for small game 759 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,839 Speaker 1: pot hunting. While I'm big game hunting. I would be 760 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: a a great dealer of small game. I mean, come on, 761 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: because every time I'm out hunting big game, like god, 762 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,240 Speaker 1: it's killing me. Rabbit's everywhere, squirrels everywhere. I'd just be like, dude, 763 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,160 Speaker 1: there'd be no stop for me. Yeah, that's a good one. 764 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: You're any lay one? Eus. Oh, here's another good one. 765 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: What's your take on kyo killing contests. One of the 766 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: first magazine stories I ever did was I was It 767 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: was in two thousand, Yeah, I was in two thousand, 768 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: members right. I remember it was the first time I 769 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: ever went to the state of New York, and I 770 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:05,439 Speaker 1: remember getting uh car taking a car service stupidly because 771 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,720 Speaker 1: of how expensive it was. I took a car service 772 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: like from JFK or Laguardi or something all way out 773 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: to Montalk, which is just insane. But I was in 774 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: a hurry, and I remember seeing the the Twin Towers. 775 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: I remember very soon after seeing him, they felt um 776 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: doing that out. I went out there to cover a 777 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:32,000 Speaker 1: shark tournament, um where guys got a ton of money. 778 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:33,760 Speaker 1: It was. I was doing a story in two thousand 779 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: for Outside on a mako shark tournament called Mako Madness, 780 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: and it was guys bet a bunch of money who 781 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: can kill the biggest mako and makos are valuable fish. 782 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 1: Their tastes good, there's a market for him, right, it's 783 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,360 Speaker 1: a coveted fish, good fish. But the thing had a 784 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: thing where there's like the main money went the biggest 785 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,719 Speaker 1: shark and mako's are greatly depleted, depleted from due to 786 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,319 Speaker 1: not not rotten real fishing, not recreational fishing, but they're 787 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: depleted from pelagic longlining um you know, mako shark reserves 788 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: or maybe downe from the nineteen seventies, so a lot 789 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:25,919 Speaker 1: of years now, the biggest shark winner isn't from what 790 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: we generally think of as big sharks. It's not from 791 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,440 Speaker 1: like a tiger, it's not from a muskie. But a 792 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: lot of years ago, catch a big blue shark. Okay, 793 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: blue sharks are much more abundant m an average, not 794 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 1: as big, but as the big coveted sharks go down, 795 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: there's a good chance you might win the whole derby 796 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: on a big blue. Blue sharks are not very popular 797 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: table fair at all. I think they have about zero 798 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: commercial value. And uh, every boat you know they do 799 00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,440 Speaker 1: all want to bring in your allowed to bring in 800 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: like two sharks for boat. Everyone would always want to 801 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,400 Speaker 1: bring in a blue shark because why not, because a 802 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,319 Speaker 1: blulue shark might win. And they filled a dumpster full 803 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,600 Speaker 1: of blue sharks. No one wanted him. I mean a 804 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: dumpster full of blue sharks. As part of my story, 805 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:23,280 Speaker 1: I went and interviewed a writer who wrote a pretty 806 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,560 Speaker 1: profound book called Song for the Blue Ocean, a fisherman 807 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: who wrote a pet a book about the depletion of 808 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: the oceans. And he said something to me that he 809 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 1: kind of articulated something that I had felt and thought 810 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 1: about a lot out at this tournament. It's he was like, 811 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: he's and this is a fisherman, you know. I actually 812 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: went a shark fishing with him. Um. But he had 813 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: a hard time with anything that puts a carnival atmosphere 814 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: around the killing of animals. He had a difficult time 815 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: with it. Just the idea of of of making a 816 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,880 Speaker 1: contest out of the death of animals or having that 817 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 1: be the motive the motivation. The issue with kyotes is 818 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: much different with sharks because they're kind of the opposite. 819 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,280 Speaker 1: As sharks are depleted from not being able to regulate 820 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: international waters and unregulated plagic longlining, and all kinds of 821 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: other stuff. Kyles are exploding everywhere. This was as different, 822 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: but that's just something to think about. Anyway. You know 823 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,240 Speaker 1: on this ranch that you guys are gonna go hunt tomorrow, 824 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,960 Speaker 1: um tying it back into kyote contests. There was a 825 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: buck on the last day that we were trying to 826 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 1: get and I hiked up this ridge and Darr was 827 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: over on another ridge and I found this buck and 828 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 1: he was rotting. He was just kind of walking and 829 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 1: he went and he came off this kind of shady 830 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,920 Speaker 1: basin and he peeled off down there, and then he 831 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,320 Speaker 1: was looking for a place to lay down. He laid down, 832 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 1: and I'm looking at him, thinking, you shouldn't have done that. 833 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,080 Speaker 1: You know, your yards from us. It's the last day. 834 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: You're the buck we're looking for. And he's right there, 835 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,600 Speaker 1: and dar is already coming to me with the hunter. 836 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:26,840 Speaker 1: And I see a coyote coming perpendicular sniffs the trail 837 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,120 Speaker 1: where the deer had just walked. I'm watching this whole 838 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:34,760 Speaker 1: thing came across this flat. He turns turned the right way, sniffing, 839 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,800 Speaker 1: sniffs that big buck up sniffs him right up, comes 840 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 1: kind of peeling over a rock and then oop, that's 841 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,160 Speaker 1: not the way to go. Snuck around, jump that buck up. 842 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,479 Speaker 1: And I watched that kyote chase that buck for over 843 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: a mile as far as I could see out of 844 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,080 Speaker 1: my sight, and the buck was running full tilt legs 845 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 1: straight out. I would have thought he'd kind of turned 846 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:03,280 Speaker 1: and fottom And well, it's funny. On that same ridge, 847 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: two days before, we had seen a group of have 848 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:11,760 Speaker 1: Alina with a pack of coyotes lined up, and actually 849 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 1: the havelina had babies too, and the coyotes were just 850 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: gang tackling those Havelina, and Havelina would be you know, 851 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:24,240 Speaker 1: chompol and chasing the chasing the coyotes off. But here's 852 00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,720 Speaker 1: this big buck. You'd think he'd turn and fight a kyote, 853 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: and he takes off run. If if people don't think 854 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:35,919 Speaker 1: that kyotes have a huge impact on our deer, they're 855 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 1: so invite you and I'm not. I'm not saying this 856 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,480 Speaker 1: because from a pro kyouse, I don't thinkyotes have any problems. 857 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,520 Speaker 1: I think you can go do all the kyote killing 858 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,360 Speaker 1: contests you want. You're still gonna have kyleotes around. I 859 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 1: mean it's like you're not gonna hurt the population. But 860 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,719 Speaker 1: I would invite you to go talk to people who 861 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,480 Speaker 1: are doing research right now about the issue of d 862 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,839 Speaker 1: Coyotes actually killed a lot of deer. I think you'd 863 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,399 Speaker 1: be astounded how few they kill. And talk to Pat Durkin, well, 864 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,960 Speaker 1: the writer, the writer, Pat Durkin. People can write about 865 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,759 Speaker 1: this widely. They can write about all they want. I 866 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:12,520 Speaker 1: saw it and believe you saw it. But I think okay, 867 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,319 Speaker 1: and they were gonna eat those halvelina. But I but 868 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,960 Speaker 1: here's what I'm saying, and I'm not vested in this 869 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,680 Speaker 1: either way. I'm just saying there's a lot of emerging 870 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 1: evidence the kyote predation on deer is not what we 871 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,120 Speaker 1: thought it was ten years ago. I'd like to see it. Well, 872 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,560 Speaker 1: there's horrible kill a hell of a lot more dear 873 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: than was previously suspected. I'll tell you. In Arizona we 874 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 1: have a horrible problem with the coyotes and antelope fonts. 875 00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,040 Speaker 1: There was areas where there's no fund recruitment because of 876 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,799 Speaker 1: the kyotes. So a lot of the kyo contest I've 877 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,799 Speaker 1: seen in Arizona are up by like Seligmann A ten 878 00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,640 Speaker 1: where there's big antelope and they're trying to really help 879 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,240 Speaker 1: the antelope come back. But you see the distinction I'm making. 880 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,320 Speaker 1: There's like, what I'm talking about with this shark situation, 881 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 1: what the sharks situation was, and how is different? Said? Yeah, 882 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,880 Speaker 1: I mean you said, like, have kyotes are turned up 883 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:10,000 Speaker 1: in places they've never been. They're rapidly adapting to urban 884 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:14,080 Speaker 1: landscapes and suburban landscapes. And it's funny because I watched 885 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,279 Speaker 1: his anti kyo hunting documentary one time, and the big 886 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 1: thrust of the documentary was he was arguing, the more 887 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,879 Speaker 1: kyotes you shoot, the more kyotes there will be. So well, 888 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so if you love kyotes so much, 889 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,880 Speaker 1: I think you'd want anybody to be out shooting them 890 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: because I'm just gonna be even more of them. So 891 00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 1: I think that you'd be making a pro Kyle hunting 892 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,760 Speaker 1: video so there's more kyotes. I don't I'm not losing 893 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,239 Speaker 1: any sleep over Kyle. But but would you say it's 894 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,320 Speaker 1: a management tool? I mean, could you say hunting contests 895 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,000 Speaker 1: could be used as a management tools? To man, I 896 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,240 Speaker 1: don't have any problem with them. I was just bringing 897 00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 1: up I just like the world is different than just 898 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of black and white issues. That was just 899 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 1: bringing up a perspective which I attributed to a man 900 00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,520 Speaker 1: that I admire, a good writer. That's just his take 901 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:03,319 Speaker 1: on it. My take on kyote contest. If you're operating 902 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 1: within the limits of the law and following legal methods, 903 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,400 Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any risk right now anywhere 904 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: that I know of of of having a dangerous depletion 905 00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 1: of coyotes. I think there's other large predators. That's the case. 906 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: In this second you can see some excellent podcast hosting 907 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,920 Speaker 1: because there was another guy asking through this transition I'm 908 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: about ready to do because another guy was asking, how 909 00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,319 Speaker 1: come so many hunters are unwilling to accept that we 910 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,759 Speaker 1: have large other large predators on the landscape, which is 911 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,160 Speaker 1: baffling to me too, because I don't like to see 912 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:43,520 Speaker 1: any species driven to extinction or extirpation, which is like 913 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: regional extinction. I think it is just it's morally wrong, 914 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:56,239 Speaker 1: it's ecologically wrong. We have no business driving species to 915 00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:03,480 Speaker 1: extirpation or extinction. I support the management and where necessary 916 00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,600 Speaker 1: there reintroduction of large predators on the landscape, and I 917 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,040 Speaker 1: think they should be managed on a state level and 918 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,960 Speaker 1: where there's traditional use patterns. I think they should be 919 00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,160 Speaker 1: managed as game, meaning we have plenty of wolves in 920 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,800 Speaker 1: the Great Lakes, Upper Great Lakes, we have plenty of 921 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,080 Speaker 1: wolves and portions of the Rocky Mountains. If we can 922 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,840 Speaker 1: have stable populations of wolves and there's hunter interest, I 923 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,080 Speaker 1: feel that they should be hunted and managed the same 924 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,160 Speaker 1: way we manage out We don't want too many. We're 925 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,120 Speaker 1: not going to drive them to extinction. There's no risk 926 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,160 Speaker 1: of doing that with coyotes at all. In fact, I 927 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,600 Speaker 1: think we have the opposite risk, where we're really coyotes 928 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,920 Speaker 1: are coming in because a man made reasons, and at 929 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,960 Speaker 1: the same time they're coming in, they're really causing. And 930 00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,399 Speaker 1: not to make it an academic issue about white tailed 931 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,359 Speaker 1: deer like how many bitsill do they actually kill? They 932 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,000 Speaker 1: have a profound impact on on a on a host 933 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,680 Speaker 1: of different species. It's just kind of a level that 934 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,840 Speaker 1: the argument I'm talking about with white tail is a 935 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,040 Speaker 1: lot of guys are now questioning, like in areas where 936 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:13,400 Speaker 1: he's seeing dear crash, is it really solely attributable to 937 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:19,160 Speaker 1: new populations of coles or other other factors of play? Um, 938 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:20,840 Speaker 1: we should have Pat Durk and not here to talk 939 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:26,080 Speaker 1: about it. Uh funny thing about wolves. I always say 940 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,320 Speaker 1: about wolves with guys who are adamly opposed to any 941 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,440 Speaker 1: wolves being around, Why do they go hunt Alaska? If 942 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,680 Speaker 1: you can't have big game in wolves, why in the 943 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,600 Speaker 1: hell is everybody wanting to go to Alaska? And why 944 00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: is everybody like reading books about Lewis and Clark and 945 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 1: how awesome it was all the animals Lewis and Clark 946 00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,680 Speaker 1: ran into because one thing, they damned sure ran into 947 00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,760 Speaker 1: a lot of his wolves. So don't tell me that 948 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,800 Speaker 1: the wolves and big game are mutually exclusive when everybody's 949 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,439 Speaker 1: lying enough to go hunt the most wolf infested state 950 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,240 Speaker 1: there ever was already all want to go to Canada, 951 00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,680 Speaker 1: where wolves occupy I don't know, nineties percent of their 952 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,280 Speaker 1: native range, or Alaska or they operate probably ninety five 953 00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,840 Speaker 1: or percent of their native range. If you can't have 954 00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: wolves in big game, it's just a lie. It's stupid. 955 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,000 Speaker 1: Pick one out, yohnnie, you guys want to pick you 956 00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,440 Speaker 1: don't have a papacy, can't pick one out here? How 957 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,200 Speaker 1: pass this one off? I would ask you, are wolves 958 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,320 Speaker 1: have they been hunted in Alaska? I mean, have they've 959 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,120 Speaker 1: been there for a long time? But have they've always 960 00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:26,240 Speaker 1: been in. They're hunted fur bears, and then they're they're 961 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:31,120 Speaker 1: managed by they're managed through cooling, aerial often aerial shooting. 962 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,680 Speaker 1: They manage wolves aggressively in Alaska, and how much they 963 00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:40,400 Speaker 1: hammer them depends on how much you are. How much 964 00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,320 Speaker 1: they hammer them depends on what kind of impact you're 965 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:46,600 Speaker 1: having on caribou and moose, because Cariboan moose practically have 966 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,200 Speaker 1: like voter registration cards. In Alaska, you can win and 967 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,160 Speaker 1: lose elections based well, I mean there's a lot of 968 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,320 Speaker 1: Western states you can win and lose elections based on 969 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,640 Speaker 1: big game honey. You know, yeah, they hammer them hard 970 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:04,160 Speaker 1: wearing you'd be. But again, they're on the landscape, and 971 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,480 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody up there is saying how they 972 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,640 Speaker 1: ought to add Like I'm sure there's some radicals, some 973 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,880 Speaker 1: anti wildlife people who are out there top of how 974 00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,280 Speaker 1: they ought to categorically remove them from the landscape. But 975 00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,280 Speaker 1: I honestly, of all the guys that hang out within 976 00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,560 Speaker 1: hunt with the hunt with a lot, I don't actually 977 00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,960 Speaker 1: hunt with any guys or socialize with any guys who 978 00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,000 Speaker 1: are really saying that we should go and poison off 979 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:30,360 Speaker 1: all large predators so that there's none left. That's a radical, 980 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,560 Speaker 1: radical perspective that exists. I don't run into it very often. 981 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,920 Speaker 1: And the guys that I do run into it, and 982 00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,320 Speaker 1: where I do hear from people, it's usually people who 983 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,520 Speaker 1: are just I mean just they are not that bright, 984 00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,360 Speaker 1: Like they're not real smart at figuring out how stuff works. 985 00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 1: I got a good one. Trophy hunting, poaching, point creep. 986 00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,280 Speaker 1: This is under hunting tactics. I don't even understand that question. 987 00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,880 Speaker 1: Do they explain it? You feel the focus on trophy 988 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:07,240 Speaker 1: hunting slash inches within the hunting community of big game 989 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,960 Speaker 1: is leading to more poaching. Also, what ways could states 990 01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:16,560 Speaker 1: like Utah, which manage heavily for trophy units do away 991 01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:21,320 Speaker 1: with current dilemmas facing a point system like point creep? 992 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,400 Speaker 1: Let me. I want you to answer, but I want 993 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:29,480 Speaker 1: to do a little translation. Um, what what point creep 994 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:35,200 Speaker 1: means is when you have a resource that is not 995 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,160 Speaker 1: big enough to support the demand on it, and I'm 996 01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:44,440 Speaker 1: talking about big resource of big game animals. It's not 997 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,560 Speaker 1: big enough to support unlimited hunting. You have to find 998 01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,320 Speaker 1: some way to control access to the resource. So you 999 01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:52,960 Speaker 1: have to look and you say we got let's say 1000 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:57,880 Speaker 1: you got a thousand elk, you're comfortable removing ten percent 1001 01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,680 Speaker 1: of that population, let's say, because as they'll reproductional more 1002 01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:05,560 Speaker 1: than make up for that. Um you get how many 1003 01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,880 Speaker 1: elk that allows you to kill? You got, you know, 1004 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,240 Speaker 1: five thousand dudes that all want to go elk hunting. 1005 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:15,640 Speaker 1: You do a lottery system and dish out tags, pull hats, uh, 1006 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,160 Speaker 1: pull names out of a hat, and give people tags. 1007 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,480 Speaker 1: Because everybody can't go, so we gotta find a democratic 1008 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,840 Speaker 1: way of selecting who can go. A guy keeps doing 1009 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,120 Speaker 1: this for five years, he never draws a tag. He's like, man, 1010 01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,720 Speaker 1: I keep putting in, I never draw a tag. It's 1011 01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,760 Speaker 1: not fair because my buddy that he just put in 1012 01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,400 Speaker 1: for the first time and he drew a tag. So 1013 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,080 Speaker 1: they come up with a system called bonus points where 1014 01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:38,720 Speaker 1: they it's basically like you're awarding people for their allegiance 1015 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,400 Speaker 1: and every year they're spending some amount of money to 1016 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,360 Speaker 1: draw a coveted tag, and you're giving them preference points 1017 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,840 Speaker 1: or bonus points, basically awarding return customers. And the more 1018 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,080 Speaker 1: years you put in, the higher your odds have drawn 1019 01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,720 Speaker 1: the tag go either every year you put in, your 1020 01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,200 Speaker 1: name goes in the tag one, the hat one more time, 1021 01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,960 Speaker 1: or a certain number of the tags go to the 1022 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: people who've been trying to get the tag longest. Very 1023 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,720 Speaker 1: fair system in my mind. But point creep comes from 1024 01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:08,480 Speaker 1: the fact that it used to let's say it used 1025 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,120 Speaker 1: to take on average five or six years to draw 1026 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,960 Speaker 1: an ELK tag in some unit. It might now be 1027 01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:19,600 Speaker 1: that guaranteed allotment of tags is going to guys who 1028 01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,440 Speaker 1: have twenty five bonus points. I mean, they've been putting 1029 01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,080 Speaker 1: in for a tag twenty five years. So point creep 1030 01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:29,240 Speaker 1: is every year it seems to take more years to 1031 01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:34,480 Speaker 1: draw some of these coveted units trophy management. So if 1032 01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,440 Speaker 1: you're behind you you're always staying beyond. You'll never catch up. 1033 01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:42,800 Speaker 1: Like if you're fifty and you decided to start putting 1034 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,240 Speaker 1: in for a unit that the max point holders are 1035 01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,960 Speaker 1: I have twenty five bonus points, you're kind of like 1036 01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,120 Speaker 1: a little bit late. But that that would be true 1037 01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: on a preference point right here behind on a bonus 1038 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,960 Speaker 1: point like Arizona, it's not necessarily true because it increases 1039 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,800 Speaker 1: your odds, but you still could in theory like Montana 1040 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,160 Speaker 1: does no allocation to max pointholders. What they do is 1041 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,080 Speaker 1: they used to each point you had through your name 1042 01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:11,520 Speaker 1: in the hat that many times? So if I put 1043 01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,920 Speaker 1: in for three years and I filed a fourth year application, 1044 01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,320 Speaker 1: my names and the hat four times, than what they 1045 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,560 Speaker 1: did is they now square that number, So now my 1046 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,919 Speaker 1: name is in the hat sixteen times. UM, So different 1047 01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,760 Speaker 1: ways doing that. And in some states take fifty of 1048 01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,720 Speaker 1: the tags, be it moose, goat, sheep, whatever, fifty percent 1049 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,120 Speaker 1: of the tags will go to those individuals who have 1050 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,480 Speaker 1: been applying the longest. Fifty percent of the tags will 1051 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,720 Speaker 1: be allocated in the general draw, so newbies have a chance, 1052 01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:49,200 Speaker 1: the old timers have an enhanced chance. And everyone does 1053 01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,720 Speaker 1: this a little bit different. And there's variations within states 1054 01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:57,640 Speaker 1: based on um, variations within states based on species and 1055 01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:03,600 Speaker 1: based on units. This guy's saying, and if Utah has 1056 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,920 Speaker 1: started trying to maintain animal quality, like maintain that you 1057 01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,200 Speaker 1: have a good chance of killing a big bowl because 1058 01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,080 Speaker 1: they're not shooting all the bulls, and you could open 1059 01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,560 Speaker 1: the doors up and let more guys shoot bulls and 1060 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,080 Speaker 1: drive big size down so you don't have as many 1061 01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,800 Speaker 1: animals reaching maturity, but you've got more guys having a 1062 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,320 Speaker 1: chance to hunt. It just kind of depends on how 1063 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:32,480 Speaker 1: productive the landscape is, and and a gross general and 1064 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop talking after this and let J and 1065 01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:39,320 Speaker 1: DR talk. A gross generalization would be this arid places 1066 01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:47,920 Speaker 1: that have low population densities um, and not a lot 1067 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,440 Speaker 1: of agriculture which tends to drive up animal numbers, and 1068 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,640 Speaker 1: they have a lot of aridity, which tend to drive 1069 01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:58,280 Speaker 1: down animal numbers. Those places tend to be much more 1070 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,800 Speaker 1: conservative with ten allocation, and they tend to have places 1071 01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,920 Speaker 1: that are more conservative a tag allocation tend to have 1072 01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:12,600 Speaker 1: more intact age structures, meaning you have animals living long 1073 01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:18,120 Speaker 1: enough to die of old age. Um. There's a lot 1074 01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,440 Speaker 1: to be said for a system that allows animals to 1075 01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:26,320 Speaker 1: die of old age because you're replicating more of a 1076 01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,880 Speaker 1: natural ecosystem. But it does piss guys off because guys 1077 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,120 Speaker 1: want to shoot stuff. Yeah, for sure. And I think 1078 01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,400 Speaker 1: you know throughout the West, there are certain states that 1079 01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:37,760 Speaker 1: guys that want to go hunt over the counter and 1080 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:42,560 Speaker 1: more liberal tag systems can go and hunt Colorado, Montana, 1081 01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:48,240 Speaker 1: Idaho and then their states like New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, 1082 01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,360 Speaker 1: where you know you have older animals, more mature animals. 1083 01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,440 Speaker 1: You know you have point creep. I don't know if 1084 01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:58,200 Speaker 1: you heard about Arizona's new change, so and are you 1085 01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,800 Speaker 1: can weigh in on this if I get because sometimes 1086 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,440 Speaker 1: I get sidetracked on this. But so ten percent of 1087 01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:08,520 Speaker 1: the tags can go to non residents. And before when 1088 01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:14,400 Speaker 1: you have for specific elk hunts, deer hunts, etcetera, the 1089 01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:20,880 Speaker 1: max point holders for that hunt like Dar's sons hunt, Okay, 1090 01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:26,200 Speaker 1: up to ten percent could go to non residents. Of 1091 01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:30,320 Speaker 1: those tags could go to or go to max point holders. 1092 01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:36,200 Speaker 1: Arizona switched it so that five of the non resident 1093 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:41,280 Speaker 1: tags go in the max point pool and the other 1094 01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:45,760 Speaker 1: five percent go into the random draw. So that point 1095 01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,920 Speaker 1: pool four non residents. That's the thing I thought. I 1096 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,400 Speaker 1: thought at first it would be another pool of okay, 1097 01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,480 Speaker 1: everybody else non residents. They're limiting their non residents. So 1098 01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:59,400 Speaker 1: what it's gonna do is actually make more point creep 1099 01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:03,760 Speaker 1: because say you had eighteen points for that hunt that 1100 01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,280 Speaker 1: his son just drew, and you're a nonresident, you have 1101 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,520 Speaker 1: max points. Well, now they're taking half that amount of 1102 01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:15,760 Speaker 1: max point holders that are non residents. But for the 1103 01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,560 Speaker 1: first time in a long in a long time since 1104 01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:23,760 Speaker 1: the draw system, you have four points three points or 1105 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, have no points as a nonresident. It's the 1106 01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:31,120 Speaker 1: first time that you actually have a chance, mathematical chance 1107 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:35,120 Speaker 1: to draw that cat. You still are thrown into the 1108 01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:41,800 Speaker 1: general draw. Okay, that's outside of the max point holders, 1109 01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,840 Speaker 1: the random the random draws, and but you actually have 1110 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:46,800 Speaker 1: a chance. But if you've got a lot of points, 1111 01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,800 Speaker 1: you're still in a stronger position in the still in 1112 01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:53,080 Speaker 1: a stronger position, but you're if you're a nonresident. Instead 1113 01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:57,440 Speaker 1: of taking ten, they only take five, So your point creep. 1114 01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, it may take you another doubled the amount 1115 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,280 Speaker 1: of years that it would normally take because they're taking 1116 01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,440 Speaker 1: half half the tags, which creates what this guy's talking about. 1117 01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,280 Speaker 1: That's point creep for non residents. It's gonna creep for residents. 1118 01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,600 Speaker 1: It's actually probably gonna go down because now they're taking 1119 01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:17,840 Speaker 1: instead of ten out of that. But it gives you 1120 01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,040 Speaker 1: a shot to draw, where a lot of these hunts 1121 01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:23,240 Speaker 1: if you did not have max points you did there's 1122 01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:25,400 Speaker 1: no way you could draw. Yeah. I get emails from 1123 01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:27,240 Speaker 1: people all the time and they're like, I'd like to 1124 01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:29,880 Speaker 1: draw Unit nine archeryoc Tech, And I say how many 1125 01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,080 Speaker 1: points do you have? And they say three? I say 1126 01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:36,080 Speaker 1: how old are you? They say, you know, I said, mathematically, 1127 01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,400 Speaker 1: there's no way that you will catch up. Well, now 1128 01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:42,280 Speaker 1: I can tell them put in for unit nine because 1129 01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,800 Speaker 1: you could be one of the five percent that's just 1130 01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,000 Speaker 1: thrown out in the random draw that could actually draw. 1131 01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,519 Speaker 1: So I think Arizona is going to see application numbers 1132 01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,879 Speaker 1: go up definitely because now people that are behind actually 1133 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:58,439 Speaker 1: have a chance. So I say, I kind of like 1134 01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:01,160 Speaker 1: states make a lot of money state game And I'm 1135 01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,240 Speaker 1: not talking about this state. State agencies make a lot 1136 01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:07,519 Speaker 1: of money for that stuff. We're talking about research, habitat 1137 01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,000 Speaker 1: improvement enforcement. They make a lot of money by having 1138 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,360 Speaker 1: drawings because they make money off unsuccessful applicants who are 1139 01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,639 Speaker 1: obligated to buy a license or pay a draw fee. 1140 01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,080 Speaker 1: So I don't think it's necessarily bad from this whole 1141 01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,400 Speaker 1: this whole issue from perspective of a guy like me. 1142 01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,759 Speaker 1: I have the luxury if I get to travel freely, 1143 01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,360 Speaker 1: willy nilly all around the whole country hunting all the time. 1144 01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,559 Speaker 1: So when I look at it, I'm like, yeah, it's cool. 1145 01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,879 Speaker 1: You got like some states or high opportunity states, anywhere 1146 01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,000 Speaker 1: you want, you can go elk hunt bo or rifle 1147 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,439 Speaker 1: in Montana. You can go l count Boa Rifle in 1148 01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,439 Speaker 1: Colorado and go lcome Boa rifle and idahole. So there's 1149 01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,439 Speaker 1: that do that all the time, and then there's these 1150 01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:49,320 Speaker 1: dream states where I can apply. But I realized that 1151 01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:52,519 Speaker 1: I'm not the typical guy like my situation. Not that 1152 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm not the typical, but my my situation isn't typical 1153 01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:57,880 Speaker 1: my hunting situation. If you were living in a state 1154 01:09:58,400 --> 01:09:59,920 Speaker 1: like let's say you're living in a state like you 1155 01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,360 Speaker 1: talk and you're like, man, I want to shoot spike 1156 01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,320 Speaker 1: bowls and fill my freezer. I think that's more important 1157 01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,240 Speaker 1: than a guy fulfilling his dream to kill a giant bowl. 1158 01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,640 Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot of validity to that perspective. 1159 01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,760 Speaker 1: I could see that it would be frustrating, but I 1160 01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,639 Speaker 1: think it's not just a matter of that. You would 1161 01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:23,280 Speaker 1: open up the valve and let everybody start shooting all 1162 01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:25,519 Speaker 1: kinds of out and expect that the picture is gonna 1163 01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,040 Speaker 1: stay the same way. You're gonna the integrity in these 1164 01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:34,760 Speaker 1: areas that have lower densities, kind of more complex elk 1165 01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,760 Speaker 1: management issues going on. It's not as simple as you're 1166 01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,920 Speaker 1: just gonna start killing more elk, and everybody's gonna be happier, 1167 01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,000 Speaker 1: and everybody's gonna kill more elk if you're gonna pay 1168 01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:45,280 Speaker 1: for it. Somewhere all the Leopold in Sand County Almanac 1169 01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:50,519 Speaker 1: talked about when wildlife managers improve the pump, but they 1170 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:55,120 Speaker 1: don't improve the well meaning you know, the sister and 1171 01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:56,840 Speaker 1: holds a hunter gowns just because you put in a 1172 01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:58,519 Speaker 1: bigger pump doesn't mean he got more water and the 1173 01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,680 Speaker 1: sister it's a limited resource. Yeah, So it's like a 1174 01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,559 Speaker 1: lot of times this stuff is the result of trying 1175 01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,559 Speaker 1: to manage a limited resource rather than saying like, let's 1176 01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:10,800 Speaker 1: make a system where no one can hunt, but if 1177 01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:12,759 Speaker 1: you do get lucky to hunt, you'll get a giant. 1178 01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,439 Speaker 1: It's more complicated than that. I have an interesting Utah 1179 01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,639 Speaker 1: application uh to this. A friend of mine drew a 1180 01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:23,880 Speaker 1: few years ago a one of the best limited entry 1181 01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,160 Speaker 1: Utah archery oak permits in Utah, and I thought, cool, 1182 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:29,840 Speaker 1: I'll go with you. I'll go see how Utah cunting is. 1183 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:35,080 Speaker 1: So he's there's sixteen permits in the whole unit, and 1184 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,320 Speaker 1: it's a huge unit. Sixteen permits. We're thinking, we got 1185 01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:43,320 Speaker 1: the whole place to ourselves. We show up there and 1186 01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:48,320 Speaker 1: there is literally a quad on every road, every ridge. 1187 01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,120 Speaker 1: There's people everywhere, were like, what the heck is going on? 1188 01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,679 Speaker 1: They have a spike and cow over the counter archery 1189 01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:00,320 Speaker 1: hunt at the same time in all those limited our 1190 01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:05,799 Speaker 1: triocun it So in Utah just answering this guy's question. 1191 01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,320 Speaker 1: In Utah specifically, you can go hunt cow or spike 1192 01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,880 Speaker 1: at the same time that the same guy that waited 1193 01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,840 Speaker 1: twenty five years to draw you just can't shoot a 1194 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,559 Speaker 1: big bull. I remember my brother, My brother lived in 1195 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,840 Speaker 1: Washington State. He had the same issue, Like he could 1196 01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,360 Speaker 1: go out hunt spikes and units that were like the 1197 01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,160 Speaker 1: most coveted big bull units anywhere. He says, all day long, 1198 01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,519 Speaker 1: you've seen giant bulls, can't find a spike. Didn't hear 1199 01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:34,000 Speaker 1: the same story from somebody else To further complicate the picture, 1200 01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:37,880 Speaker 1: Some states like Colorado, like Colorado is the default go 1201 01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,679 Speaker 1: to state for l conton and it's Colorado has twice 1202 01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:42,920 Speaker 1: as many of because the three times as many elk 1203 01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,280 Speaker 1: because the next largest elk holding states. So I'm screwing 1204 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:48,439 Speaker 1: that up. They have tons out. It's no wonder they 1205 01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,360 Speaker 1: got a lot of tags, but they're tight asses with 1206 01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,040 Speaker 1: their mulet here, and I think it's a trophy muleteer 1207 01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:58,439 Speaker 1: state in an opportunity elk state well in Colorado in 1208 01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,760 Speaker 1: the past few years has gone until a lot more 1209 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:04,800 Speaker 1: limited entry units and they've seen the quality rise as 1210 01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,400 Speaker 1: far as size of bulls and and you know, Yanni 1211 01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:10,280 Speaker 1: can attest to. You know, there's a handful of Colorado 1212 01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:13,880 Speaker 1: units that have some pretty darn good size quality elk hunting. 1213 01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,280 Speaker 1: And then of course it's known for the over the 1214 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:18,400 Speaker 1: counter el coun I mean it's the key and the 1215 01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:21,640 Speaker 1: thing too. When people here, I find a lot of 1216 01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:26,400 Speaker 1: guys when you're thinking about management get tripped up by that. 1217 01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:30,960 Speaker 1: They think that if you're growing big box or big bulls, 1218 01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:38,960 Speaker 1: did it somehow only benefits like trophy guys, But what 1219 01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,439 Speaker 1: about having just healthy hurts. I got buddies at hunt 1220 01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:44,960 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin when they were growing up, like like Doug 1221 01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:48,320 Speaker 1: durn has been on The Meat Eater Show, and I 1222 01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,719 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time with talking to about wildlife issues. 1223 01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,439 Speaker 1: He was growing up. If you if you saw a 1224 01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:58,320 Speaker 1: deer track, you ran home and told your dad, Okay, 1225 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:02,000 Speaker 1: there was nothing around. Deer finally started coming back and 1226 01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,479 Speaker 1: as deer came back. There was a thing you never 1227 01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,400 Speaker 1: shot a dope because it was true de you were 1228 01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,280 Speaker 1: in recovery. You're like, you wouldn't shoot a doll because 1229 01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,160 Speaker 1: you shoot a buck, you're killing one animal. You shoot 1230 01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:13,960 Speaker 1: a doll, you're shooting her. You're killing her in every 1231 01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,719 Speaker 1: offspring she's ever gonna have. It's more complicated in that book. 1232 01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:19,920 Speaker 1: That's kind of true. Eventually they got were deer were 1233 01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:24,760 Speaker 1: just absolutely everywhere better deer herds that ever had amazing deer, 1234 01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,040 Speaker 1: and a lot of guys still couldn't get used to 1235 01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:29,400 Speaker 1: the fact of shooting does. I still run into old 1236 01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,200 Speaker 1: timers all time, particularly in the Midwest. They won't shoot 1237 01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:33,800 Speaker 1: a dope because those are the guys that grew up 1238 01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:37,280 Speaker 1: and they weren't dear. They love deer and deer hunting 1239 01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,040 Speaker 1: so much. You're like, man, you don't shoot does shoot bucks? 1240 01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:42,439 Speaker 1: And that's when you get in these situations that I 1241 01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,439 Speaker 1: grew up around, where you'd sit there and you'd count 1242 01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:47,920 Speaker 1: thirty forty dolls in a night and not see a 1243 01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,080 Speaker 1: single buck because everybody shot the first buck they saw, 1244 01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,200 Speaker 1: and if someone shot a two and a half year 1245 01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,080 Speaker 1: old buck, y'all thought you were seeing a giant Okay, 1246 01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:57,760 Speaker 1: so is that really the kind of deer herd we 1247 01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:02,400 Speaker 1: want where you have like deer or born one to one. 1248 01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:06,240 Speaker 1: Just like people, people are slightly more females than males, 1249 01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,240 Speaker 1: but deers are basically born like buck, bado buck do 1250 01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:10,640 Speaker 1: buck do? When you're sitting in the woods, that's not 1251 01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,960 Speaker 1: what you're seeing. I would argue that hunter recruitment very 1252 01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:18,920 Speaker 1: first question that if new hunters can go out and 1253 01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:22,080 Speaker 1: see a big rack, because there's just I don't care 1254 01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:24,679 Speaker 1: who you are, there's something about a big rack, whether 1255 01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:30,320 Speaker 1: it's an elk, a sheep, a deer, an if you 1256 01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,080 Speaker 1: could see a big rack, I think it would hook 1257 01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:37,280 Speaker 1: more people, more youngsters, more new hunters than if they 1258 01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,839 Speaker 1: went out and saw forty does that all quote unquote 1259 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:44,080 Speaker 1: look the same, and they never saw a big mature buck. 1260 01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,519 Speaker 1: It's something magical, but you grew up dreaming about it. 1261 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,400 Speaker 1: I just don't I think that. Like if you go somewhere, 1262 01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,719 Speaker 1: if you've got a place that is doing things well 1263 01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:57,280 Speaker 1: enough that you have animals dyeing of old age and 1264 01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:02,800 Speaker 1: you have breeding class animals, egg breeding like animals, like 1265 01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,840 Speaker 1: with with deer that are getting out to be four 1266 01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:09,120 Speaker 1: or five years of age and reproducing bull elk. I 1267 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:12,479 Speaker 1: mean it's like twice that right to be like in 1268 01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,480 Speaker 1: a in a healthy herd has its whole age demographic. 1269 01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,719 Speaker 1: I mean, what's a what's the bull like a real 1270 01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:26,360 Speaker 1: herd bull? I mean eight eight doll sheet. It just 1271 01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:29,439 Speaker 1: takes a lot of to get stuff that old. It 1272 01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,840 Speaker 1: takes a lot of not pulling the trigger, and it's 1273 01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,880 Speaker 1: like it's just healthy herds man um. So I don't 1274 01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,000 Speaker 1: think that, you know, if you live in a state 1275 01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:41,160 Speaker 1: it's like a dry state or whatever, and it's like 1276 01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,880 Speaker 1: low densities. I don't think it's a sign that people 1277 01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,080 Speaker 1: are being tight with the purse strings because you got 1278 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,360 Speaker 1: big animals running around, you know. I mean you should be. 1279 01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:55,479 Speaker 1: You should view it as a good thing. But I 1280 01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:57,920 Speaker 1: do acknowledge and I do think there is an issue 1281 01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:04,280 Speaker 1: of managing for opportunity. Now state my state, Washington, Uh, 1282 01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:07,240 Speaker 1: for no one understands why I think it. You know, 1283 01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:10,559 Speaker 1: there's theories that it stems from an anti hunting sentiment 1284 01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:12,479 Speaker 1: in parts of the Game and Fish Agency. I don't 1285 01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:16,320 Speaker 1: know that that's true at all. But they're real tight 1286 01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:19,920 Speaker 1: like with their their their biologists are tighter with mountain 1287 01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:25,360 Speaker 1: goat tag allocation than anybody else. They have a higher 1288 01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,960 Speaker 1: threshold of what the population needs to be in order 1289 01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:31,799 Speaker 1: to award a tag. They award a lower percentage of tags. 1290 01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:34,600 Speaker 1: You might wind up thinking, like, listen, man, there's a 1291 01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:37,880 Speaker 1: lot of the states successfully manage the mountain goats that 1292 01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:42,439 Speaker 1: are allocating a lot more mountain goat tags. What's going on? 1293 01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,000 Speaker 1: You know, are we utilizing the resource to full potential 1294 01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:48,200 Speaker 1: or is this something different happening here? Yeah? I think 1295 01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:53,000 Speaker 1: you can ask some questions, but in general, um, I 1296 01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:58,960 Speaker 1: think that that some programs that are managing for quality animals, 1297 01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:03,200 Speaker 1: or let's say you're managing for healthy demographics and your herd, 1298 01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:05,920 Speaker 1: I don't think it's automatically negative, And I don't think 1299 01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,760 Speaker 1: that the default management system should be to kill as 1300 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:11,120 Speaker 1: many critics as you can possibly get away with killing 1301 01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:16,880 Speaker 1: without driving the population into the dirt. Johnny, what about 1302 01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:22,160 Speaker 1: the first part of that question, the inches causing the 1303 01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:29,840 Speaker 1: trophy hunters gerd leading to more poaching. Now, I think 1304 01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:32,639 Speaker 1: that if you talk to wardens and stuff, I think 1305 01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:36,080 Speaker 1: there's more people poach for the pop I think a 1306 01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:40,320 Speaker 1: lot of guys poacher to breaking rights more so than 1307 01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:43,800 Speaker 1: was going on when I was a little kid. I 1308 01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:47,320 Speaker 1: don't think there's as much poaching big bucks or bulls 1309 01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:50,519 Speaker 1: as they're used to be. Well, yeah, I'm talking totally 1310 01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:52,320 Speaker 1: out of my ask. I have no idea. I don't 1311 01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:54,240 Speaker 1: think there is. But I think there's a lot more 1312 01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,559 Speaker 1: people out there watching. I think when you have a 1313 01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:00,240 Speaker 1: lot more hunters with quality optics, and you have more 1314 01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,120 Speaker 1: of our own police out there watching the fellow hunters 1315 01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,320 Speaker 1: and such, I just I don't hear about a lot 1316 01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:09,719 Speaker 1: of poaching well with trail cameras and people taking pictures 1317 01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,200 Speaker 1: in video. I mean a big bucket shot, there's I 1318 01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:15,400 Speaker 1: mean other people know about it. You know, did you 1319 01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:17,479 Speaker 1: hear about that dude? There's a dude that shot. Like 1320 01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,040 Speaker 1: Tennessee has much more liberal deer seasons in Kentucky. There's 1321 01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:25,320 Speaker 1: a guy to kill this giant and he says he 1322 01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:28,439 Speaker 1: killed Tennessee. He brings it down to some big buck 1323 01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,439 Speaker 1: contests or something like like, uh, you know, like the 1324 01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:36,120 Speaker 1: outdoor expo and a guy from Kentucky has to be 1325 01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:39,599 Speaker 1: at that outdoor expo sees that bucks like that buck 1326 01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:41,880 Speaker 1: didn't die, and that buck didn't die in Tennessee. I 1327 01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,439 Speaker 1: got trail camp pictures of that buck, and the buck 1328 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,200 Speaker 1: was so unique in the trail camp pictures so conclusive 1329 01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:49,439 Speaker 1: that guy wanted to having his buck confiscated and got 1330 01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:53,439 Speaker 1: prosecuted off a dude's trail camp picture. He's like, that 1331 01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:55,839 Speaker 1: book never stepped foot near where you're saying you shot, 1332 01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:01,599 Speaker 1: Which is interesting. Man. It's like, you know, technology kind 1333 01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,560 Speaker 1: of like you always wanna there's always all these negatives 1334 01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,760 Speaker 1: to technology and hunting, but in some ways you find 1335 01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:10,680 Speaker 1: these little like helpful stories, hopeful stories. We got to 1336 01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:14,360 Speaker 1: chat with those warrants in uh Kentucky a little bit there, 1337 01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:19,280 Speaker 1: and they talked about very sophisticated trophy poaching rings, right. 1338 01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:21,840 Speaker 1: But what was interesting to me is that I felt 1339 01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:23,680 Speaker 1: like if someone's gonna go out of their way to 1340 01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:26,800 Speaker 1: go shoot a giant buck at night or however they 1341 01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,599 Speaker 1: do on someone else's property and you know all that stuff, like, 1342 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:35,000 Speaker 1: there's got to be like a monetary drive. Because he's like, yeah, 1343 01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,280 Speaker 1: we broke up this giant poaching ring and I'm like, well, 1344 01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:39,479 Speaker 1: what are they doing it for? Are they are they 1345 01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:42,280 Speaker 1: selling them for? He said, no, they're just all basically 1346 01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:44,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of yah who's they just want to have 1347 01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,280 Speaker 1: the bragging, right, That's all it is. This dude also 1348 01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:49,599 Speaker 1: told me about the case they worked where a guy 1349 01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:53,600 Speaker 1: had put out a feeder, had a suppressor, had a 1350 01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,599 Speaker 1: red dot scope. It was just shooting deer and as 1351 01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:58,360 Speaker 1: best they could tell, he was just shooting him to 1352 01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:04,559 Speaker 1: shoot him, like, not for trophy, not for me, he said, 1353 01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:10,280 Speaker 1: It's just just a mentally ill, sick dude. What are 1354 01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,880 Speaker 1: your concluding thoughts? Jay? But not this subject. The whole 1355 01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:21,720 Speaker 1: damn deal. You gotta buy them. I got like two 1356 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:26,000 Speaker 1: or three for free. Right now, I'm sporting my Laska one. 1357 01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:28,120 Speaker 1: It's got a doll sheep on it. Is there a 1358 01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,679 Speaker 1: hunt to eat Arizona? I might just have a hunty 1359 01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,400 Speaker 1: shirt for you boys and that over there as you 1360 01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:37,200 Speaker 1: have a million dudes all hunting on one. You do 1361 01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:41,240 Speaker 1: some glass and for one got in every point. I 1362 01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:44,160 Speaker 1: want to say, while I'm sitting here, that wasn't your 1363 01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,160 Speaker 1: I got one more I want to say while I'm 1364 01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:50,880 Speaker 1: sitting here, I get a lot of people that really 1365 01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:55,840 Speaker 1: admire your show and the job you do producing the show, 1366 01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,760 Speaker 1: and the benefit that people get from your show in 1367 01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:06,080 Speaker 1: that every show you can take something away, and to me, 1368 01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:09,519 Speaker 1: it's refreshing to hear people say that about your show, 1369 01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:12,559 Speaker 1: and I wanted to give kudos to you guys for 1370 01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,760 Speaker 1: you know, doing what you do and how you do it. Um, 1371 01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:19,160 Speaker 1: I think your show is spectacular. I think it stands 1372 01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,519 Speaker 1: out above all other shows. And I just wanted to 1373 01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,840 Speaker 1: say that, thanks man. We'll give you a shirt for that. Okay, yeah, 1374 01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:26,680 Speaker 1: you better give him a shirt. Now give him like 1375 01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:28,920 Speaker 1: shine it up before you give it to him. Yeah. 1376 01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:30,960 Speaker 1: And you're you're the same off camera as you are 1377 01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,920 Speaker 1: on camera, which is cool too. I mean you don't 1378 01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,200 Speaker 1: see that all the time, and a lot of the 1379 01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:40,080 Speaker 1: shows I would say, what are your concluding thoughts? I 1380 01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,280 Speaker 1: appreciate that. That That was I'm ready to go to Mexico. 1381 01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:48,680 Speaker 1: That's it. He stole my concluding thought. I'm ready to 1382 01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:52,720 Speaker 1: go do some hunt. My concluding thought is uh, And 1383 01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:54,879 Speaker 1: I'm not just doing this because they had such nice compliments. 1384 01:22:55,000 --> 01:23:01,160 Speaker 1: If you, um, if if you want to go hunt 1385 01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:07,200 Speaker 1: Gould's turkeys or if you want to uh going hunt 1386 01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,559 Speaker 1: Who's deer? You you might have to wait in line, 1387 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:16,800 Speaker 1: but you will not have a more quality experience than 1388 01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:21,760 Speaker 1: if you go with the jandar Jay. The problem with 1389 01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:27,160 Speaker 1: these guys is there a little annoying about they don't 1390 01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:29,160 Speaker 1: like to leave anything. The chance you're gonna bring up 1391 01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:33,280 Speaker 1: the light story again, I'm not gonna tell Jay earlier 1392 01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:35,880 Speaker 1: was talking about something happening very early, and I remember 1393 01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,439 Speaker 1: thinking he must be talking about two am. A lot 1394 01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:40,679 Speaker 1: of guys say very early, and it's like five am 1395 01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,680 Speaker 1: or six am. Um, if you can handle the abuse 1396 01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:51,760 Speaker 1: of of being around the perfectionists, um, you will have. 1397 01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:55,240 Speaker 1: You might come home with complaints, but it won't be 1398 01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:59,120 Speaker 1: about your guys not hunting enough, and it won't be 1399 01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:01,000 Speaker 1: about not hunting off, and it won't be about not 1400 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:02,800 Speaker 1: being in a good spot. It might be that I 1401 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,080 Speaker 1: don't know, you were cold, or your feet got blisters, 1402 01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:07,839 Speaker 1: or you were bored or whatever kind of little problems 1403 01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:09,680 Speaker 1: you have. It won't be because you went to a 1404 01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:12,160 Speaker 1: bad spot and had a bad guy who didn't want 1405 01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:19,040 Speaker 1: to hunt. They like to watch animals, and um, they 1406 01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:24,759 Speaker 1: observe animals, their students of animals, and uh if you 1407 01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,280 Speaker 1: you can learn a lot from these guys, for sure, 1408 01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:34,080 Speaker 1: and um hunting Google's turkeys. It's like to see um 1409 01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:40,360 Speaker 1: birds out in the desert, like in these little washes 1410 01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:43,000 Speaker 1: and stream valleys where everything's just like desert and it 1411 01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,519 Speaker 1: looks like an episode of Wildly Coyote. And there's these 1412 01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:50,760 Speaker 1: little like oases, you know, from springs and streams, and 1413 01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,920 Speaker 1: just to watch Turkey's kind of doing her thing down 1414 01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,519 Speaker 1: on those little bottoms. I mean, it's just mesmerizing. Man, 1415 01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:00,160 Speaker 1: It's just a turkey has great colors and do you 1416 01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:03,400 Speaker 1: want to see what like that? And the most beautiful 1417 01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:07,639 Speaker 1: of settings. It's like in a desert environment. Um it's amazing. 1418 01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:11,960 Speaker 1: And KU's dear, is this your third trip down to 1419 01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,439 Speaker 1: Mexico for Kase here right? What brings you back? What 1420 01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,320 Speaker 1: brings you back? What? What about him? Do you like? 1421 01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:23,799 Speaker 1: I like look at through binoculars. I just like watching 1422 01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:27,439 Speaker 1: big expanses and looking through binoculars and just observing, saying 1423 01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:29,760 Speaker 1: you guys like I just like observing, you know. I 1424 01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:31,800 Speaker 1: mean I love walking around the woods too. You know. 1425 01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:33,920 Speaker 1: I just had a great time down Kentucky following a 1426 01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:35,840 Speaker 1: squirrel dog through the woods, which is the noisiest thing 1427 01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:40,559 Speaker 1: you've ever been involved in. But um no, just the quiet, 1428 01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:45,519 Speaker 1: quiet observation and just watching and watching and watching, and 1429 01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:49,479 Speaker 1: then the thrill of realizing that there's a deer right 1430 01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:55,040 Speaker 1: where you've been staring all day long. Um, I have 1431 01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:59,720 Speaker 1: like I have a decent gay lie. Yanni has a 1432 01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:02,639 Speaker 1: better game I than I have. And Yanni talks about 1433 01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:07,160 Speaker 1: how frustrating it is to watch for coo do you 1434 01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:12,719 Speaker 1: COU'SI with Jandar. I feel like I see one, Yannie 1435 01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:17,519 Speaker 1: sees two and he says, you, guys see your I 1436 01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:21,559 Speaker 1: definitely gets trained to pick it up. And it's a 1437 01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:24,280 Speaker 1: lot of its proportion. I would say, just what size 1438 01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:29,280 Speaker 1: to look for? Yeah, um, I learned I I never 1439 01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:33,840 Speaker 1: did the whole binoculars on a tripod thing, and tis 1440 01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:35,439 Speaker 1: the first time I ever did that was hunting Cou's 1441 01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:40,320 Speaker 1: dere And um, you realize that when you start seeing 1442 01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:45,000 Speaker 1: two hundred yards away a bird. If when you realize 1443 01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,280 Speaker 1: that you just saw like a bird wing two hundred 1444 01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:50,439 Speaker 1: yards away, you're like, dude, there's no way I would 1445 01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:52,639 Speaker 1: have ever seen freehand and I would never have caught 1446 01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,400 Speaker 1: that movement. And then you realize that the tip of 1447 01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,320 Speaker 1: that deer's eyear it's like about that size. And a 1448 01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:03,120 Speaker 1: lot of times you're like I just saw ear or hey, 1449 01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:06,519 Speaker 1: wait minute, that piece of grass isn't grass. It just turned. 1450 01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:10,120 Speaker 1: It's like a time, it's just its own thing. Man, 1451 01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:14,360 Speaker 1: if you like puzzles and like visual stuff, you should 1452 01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:20,360 Speaker 1: try Wu's your hunt. Um, But anyone's going to appreciate 1453 01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:25,360 Speaker 1: a Google's hunt. I think you need to hunt quite 1454 01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:28,920 Speaker 1: a bit before you're really gonna appreciate it. Accused your hunt, 1455 01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:30,880 Speaker 1: I think I think it's a kind of sewers thing. 1456 01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:33,719 Speaker 1: I think doll sheep is a cond of sewers game. 1457 01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,200 Speaker 1: I think Who's Dear is a kind of sewers thing. 1458 01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,679 Speaker 1: You have to love hunting and love all things about hunting, 1459 01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,920 Speaker 1: and love being in the woods, um, in order to 1460 01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:46,320 Speaker 1: love cous Dear. Maybe I'm wrong. I wouldn't suggest it 1461 01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:49,320 Speaker 1: as a first hunt. It's definitely not like as much 1462 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:52,080 Speaker 1: action as you're getting advantaging. I would suggesting Google, like, 1463 01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:53,800 Speaker 1: if you've been hunting one time before, I'll be like, dude, 1464 01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:57,559 Speaker 1: go on a Google talk man, you have a blast. Um. 1465 01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:00,120 Speaker 1: All right, that was a long concluding thought. Thanks who 1466 01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:01,920 Speaker 1: in more next time.