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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Just recently, both of my

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Speaker 1: twins now age thirteen, took part in a countrywide scout

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Speaker 1: activity and it was online and part of it included

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Speaker 1: speaking with a real live astronaut. It led us down

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Speaker 1: to NASA to tour the facilities there. Both of the

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Speaker 1: twins ran around trying to actually see and or touch

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Speaker 1: a real astronaut. So when you think of an astronaut,

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Speaker 1: you think the very very best our country has to offer, right,

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Speaker 1: you don't really think of them driving cross country in

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Speaker 1: an adult diaper to wreak havoc on a love rival

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It is a haunting situation

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Speaker 1: alone late at night in a deserted Orlando Airport parking

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Speaker 1: lot with a stranger in pursuit. Are you walking quickly? Yes,

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Speaker 1: at at a fast paced you know, speedwalking like you

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Speaker 1: read about. So you think you're being pursued? Yeah? Oh definitely.

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Speaker 1: Oh I knew it. Closing fast is a figure wearing

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Speaker 1: a trench coat and a large black wig. How far

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Speaker 1: is the car? Ten spots down? Maybe it was like

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Speaker 1: a mile? Oh my gosh, yeah, I couldn't have been

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Speaker 1: any further. It seemed like a life or death situation.

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Speaker 1: Get to the car. I get to the car, and

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Speaker 1: I got myself in there and locked the door. And

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Speaker 1: just as I was locking the door, she was up

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Speaker 1: under the handle and trying to open the door. Right

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Speaker 1: there is the first clue that this is no ordinary carjacking.

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Speaker 1: And Colleen Shipman's a silent isn't just any woman? Sounds

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Speaker 1: like a strait. I have an Alfred Hitchcock movie. You're

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Speaker 1: at the airport, it's late at night. You can almost

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Speaker 1: hear the steps, and going down those cement parking deck

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Speaker 1: steps and to your car is super dark, and in

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Speaker 1: the distance you see a woman in a trench coat

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Speaker 1: and a big black wig coming right behind you. It

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Speaker 1: really does sound like a nightmare. You get in your car,

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Speaker 1: you hit that lock button, and then the next thing

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Speaker 1: you know is you hear her trying to open the

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Speaker 1: door handle. It sounds like an Alfred Hitchcock movie, but

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Speaker 1: it's real. You're just hearing our friends at ABC speaking

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Speaker 1: to a young woman, Colleen Shipman. Let me introduce you

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Speaker 1: an all star panel making sense of what we know happened.

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Speaker 1: First of all, Judge, Trial Lawyer, Court TV anchor Ashley

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Speaker 1: Wilcott at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist,

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Speaker 1: and boy do we need a shrink. You can find

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Speaker 1: her at panther Mitigation dot com and doctor Sherry is

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Speaker 1: the author of Criminal Behavior, Where law and Psychology intersect.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, founder director of the Coldcase Research Institute and

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Speaker 1: forensic expert, and you can find her at Coldcasecrimes dot org.

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Speaker 1: But first to Kimberly see More, investigative reporter with The

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Speaker 1: Ledger in Lakeland, Florida. She's been on this case from

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Speaker 1: the very very beginning. Is she is the author of

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Speaker 1: star Crossed, the story of astronaut Lisa Nowhak and that's

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Speaker 1: on Amazon and you can find her a kmore The Ledger. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know you her that first intro about

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Speaker 1: Colleen's shipman getting off a plane late at night Orlando Airport.

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Speaker 1: We've all been there many many times. Kimberly Moore, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to this. Did you know who she was? No,

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Speaker 1: no idea, no clue. I figured she was just, you know,

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Speaker 1: a criminal, you know, just a criminal doing a random crime.

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Speaker 1: Police arrived quickly and arrest her attacker. But hours later

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Speaker 1: at the police station. Colleen Shipman's confusion is only heightened

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Speaker 1: when she spots a NASA photo ID laying on the

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Speaker 1: desk of the detective. I heard the word astronaut in

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Speaker 1: the hallway and I'm thinking, this woman has stolen an

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Speaker 1: astronaut's ID card. And he said, does the name Lisa

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Speaker 1: Noac mean anything to you? And I was like, gosh,

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Speaker 1: you know, in fact, Lisa Noac is a star of

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Speaker 1: the US based program like all astronauts, she's an American

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Speaker 1: hero of epic proportions. We feel like we've done our

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Speaker 1: tests and met the objectives, and we feelect the whole

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Speaker 1: programs back on set. Wow, okay, you know an assai

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Speaker 1: Tryl McCollum. Growing up on a red dirt road in

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Speaker 1: Middle Georgia, the first time I thought I saw a

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Speaker 1: real astronaut was on I Dream of Genie. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember she was a genie that would come out of

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Speaker 1: a bottle and she had a crush on an astronaut.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Absolutely? Yes, they all like the

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Speaker 1: word that beautifully uniform, Yes, him or her. But long

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Speaker 1: story short, the astronauts were somebody you looked up to,

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Speaker 1: that stories were written about. You grew up wanting to

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Speaker 1: be an astronaut? Boy, did that get bass backwards in

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Speaker 1: this case? Kimberly see more investigative reporter with the Ledger,

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Speaker 1: author of star Cross. That's a great title, by the way,

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Speaker 1: the story of astronaut Lisa Noah Kimberly, Who is Lisa Noah?

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Speaker 1: She was a hero up until this point. Now her

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Speaker 1: name is Forever sin Us. With adult diapers, well, and

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Speaker 1: honestly they were actually toddler sized diapers with a cartoon

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Speaker 1: character on them, and she had about okay, why white white?

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Speaker 1: What did you decide? I said they were toddler sized diapers, because,

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Speaker 1: like you, she had twin girls. She still has twin girls.

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Speaker 1: They're in high school now. And she had about fifty

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Speaker 1: clean toddler sized diapers in the trunk of her car.

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Speaker 1: And when the detective searched her car, he found two

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Speaker 1: used diapers in a garbage bag behind the driver's seat,

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Speaker 1: and she had told him, according to the detective Chris Specton,

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Speaker 1: that she she slid these under herself during this trip

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Speaker 1: so she wouldn't have to make these frequent stops. And

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Speaker 1: he and I both think that actually she used them

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Speaker 1: so she wouldn't be scene at rest stops or McDonald's bathrooms.

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Speaker 1: You know that reminds me of Kimerly Moore. Jodi Arius.

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Speaker 1: Remember Ashley Willcott judge, trial, lawyer, court TV anchor that

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Speaker 1: Jodi Arius another killer girlfriend from hell, straight from the

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Speaker 1: Devil's bedroom. Let me tell you. Jody Arius crosses the

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Speaker 1: desert with cans of gas at her car tank so

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Speaker 1: she won't be spotted getting gas at a gas station.

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Speaker 1: She left no trail getting to her lover, Travis Alexander's home,

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Speaker 1: so she could kill him. Remember that, I do, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I do remember that. And you're right taking any measures,

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Speaker 1: any lengths in order to make certain there were no

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Speaker 1: stops couldn't be traced. What's that called? Oh yeah, premeditative

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Speaker 1: astronaut go ahead. This astronaut did a couple of other

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Speaker 1: things in terms of that. She stayed at a hotel

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Speaker 1: in Diffuniac Springs, Florida, which is way up in the Panhandle.

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Speaker 1: It's just a little, a little spot on the map.

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Speaker 1: And she used an assume name. It was a fake name.

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Speaker 1: She paid cash. She had pulled out all these maps

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Speaker 1: to get her from Houston to Orlando, and she printed

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Speaker 1: out a set of them, and then she hand wrote

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Speaker 1: on them, you know, to purnt them out again. But

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Speaker 1: no tolls, so she didn't want to go through the

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Speaker 1: toll booth ah, so she got maps to avoid the

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Speaker 1: tolls and listen, I know exactly where Daffiniac Springs is,

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Speaker 1: and if you do not want to be spotted, that's

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Speaker 1: a good place to go. Little Now, in fact, my

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Speaker 1: father was born in hey Cody. I think it's an

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Speaker 1: Indian name, and nobody knows where that is, hey Cody, Alabama.

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Speaker 1: It's as I always say, it's near op which is

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Speaker 1: near Enterprise, which is near Mobile. Have to keep going

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Speaker 1: from city to city to city till there's some kind

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Speaker 1: of glint of recognition. So yes, I know exactly where

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Speaker 1: you're talking about, believe me, Kimberly Moore. And of course

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Speaker 1: you know more about it the night that you literally

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Speaker 1: wrote the book. She picked Defuniac Springs to hide out

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Speaker 1: overnight because she knew nobody would find her there. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if the Funiac Springs held some kind

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Speaker 1: of special memory for her because she and her husband

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Speaker 1: went through flight training together at Pensacola Naval Air Station,

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Speaker 1: but then they did survival training. Kiardfuniak Springs, So I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that was the first place that they

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Speaker 1: stayed here. Okay, let me understand something, Kimberly, see more. Now.

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Speaker 1: I know you're a renown investigative reporter, but you really

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Speaker 1: think she was thinking about her husband on this trek,

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Speaker 1: this odyssey. Well, I'm I'm not mentally ill. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to think so, and she was. So it's hard to

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Speaker 1: crawl into the mind of somebody who has lost their mind.

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Speaker 1: But you know, oh, Kimberly, this woman was literally a hero, yes,

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Speaker 1: an astronaut here, one of the first women astronauts, pioneering

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Speaker 1: astronautical journeys, as one of the first females. So it's

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Speaker 1: amazing to me that she ends up like this. Guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Dave McDaniel at Weston.

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Speaker 1: You think about a cross country trip by car to

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Speaker 1: apparently confront a romantic rival who was coming in on

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Speaker 1: a flight from the same city that you drove in from.

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Speaker 1: And you hear you have about all these disguises, supposedly,

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Speaker 1: and you're talking about an astronaut, somebody who has an

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Speaker 1: occupation of such high esteem going to an airport to

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Speaker 1: supposedly confront the other woman. Then he got prosecutors saying

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Speaker 1: that a good part of the scheme caught on camera.

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Speaker 1: Roughly twelve thirty in the morning, February fifth, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven, The airport terminal video seems to show Lisa

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Speaker 1: Noac settling in just after one ten. She wanders in

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Speaker 1: run of the security camera, wearing a jacket, hat and wig.

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Speaker 1: Her romantic rival, Colleen Shipman was apparently to land any minute.

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Speaker 1: Ten minutes later, Shipman with the blue backpack walks toward

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Speaker 1: baggage Claim. Noac keeps her distance, betrayals behind her, and

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Speaker 1: this all caught on video. Listen to more down the stairs.

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Speaker 1: Both women go. Later we see Shipmen waiting for her luggage,

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Speaker 1: while a few feet away Lisa Noac also waits. A

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Speaker 1: minute or two later, we see Noac buttoning up a

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Speaker 1: trench coat. Shipman told police the woman who came after

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Speaker 1: her with pepper spray was wearing a trench coat. Shipman's

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Speaker 1: luggage is delayed, so this plays out another two hours.

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Speaker 1: A Shipman walks to baggage claim a second time, at

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Speaker 1: a quarter after three in the morning. Noac apparently again follows,

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Speaker 1: this time putting some sort of scarf over her head,

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Speaker 1: knocking off her hat, but she doesn't stop to get it.

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Speaker 1: The last shot on the tape a person in a

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Speaker 1: trench coat running past the doors in the area where

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Speaker 1: buses take people to remote airport parking lot. And it

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Speaker 1: was in one of those parking lots where Colleen Shipman

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Speaker 1: alleges that Lisa Noah came after her. Wow. Of course,

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Speaker 1: here the luggage delay plays into the entire scenario Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, we are talking about one of

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Speaker 1: the most famous astronauts, a female astronaut that now is

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Speaker 1: more infamous than famous. So Kimberly Moore joining US investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: When you're stuck there at the airport and you're waiting

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Speaker 1: on your luggage, there was a two hour delay. Certainly

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Speaker 1: Colleen Shipman had to notice this woman in a wig

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Speaker 1: and a hat. Everywhere she turned around, there was the woman. Well,

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Speaker 1: she didn't notice her in the airport, Colleen. You know,

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Speaker 1: her back was about two two and a half hours late,

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Speaker 1: and so she went to Starbucks. She got a hot

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Speaker 1: chocolate and something to eat, and then she walked around

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Speaker 1: the airport a little while, and you know, all the

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Speaker 1: whole time Lisa is watching her, and she curled up

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Speaker 1: on a bench and put her backpack under her head

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Speaker 1: and took a nap at one point. And she later

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Speaker 1: told the judge she would have welcomed some company because

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Speaker 1: Lisa Nowak told the detective, told the judge she just

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk to Colleen. Well, she had two hours

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Speaker 1: to walk up to her in the nice, you know,

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Speaker 1: eric conditioned airport and go talk to her, and instead

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Speaker 1: she stopped her through the airport. They got on the

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Speaker 1: same bus together to go out to the Blue Lot,

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Speaker 1: and Colleen noticed her on the bus because Lisa Nowak

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Speaker 1: is a very petite woman, just like Colleen, and her

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Speaker 1: jeans were rolled up on the bottom, and Colleen remembers thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, I feel her pain. I have to roll

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Speaker 1: up James myself. And noticed her humongous nineteen eighties glasses.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that really stuck out for her is

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Speaker 1: that this woman had on the layers of clothes like

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Speaker 1: you would wear up north in the dead of winter.

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Speaker 1: And it was early February in Florida, but it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a nice evening. It wasn't It wasn't freezing cold,

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Speaker 1: although it can get freezing cold here, but so she

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Speaker 1: gets off the bus, and the bus driver helped Colleen

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Speaker 1: Shipman off the bus, and then noticed that her cell

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Speaker 1: phone was sitting in the seat, and the bus driver

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Speaker 1: got it for and handed it to her. Lisa Noac

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Speaker 1: never said a word to either one of them, and

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Speaker 1: she got off the bus, and Colleen is walking to

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Speaker 1: her car, and she can hear the swish swish swish

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Speaker 1: of Lisa's pants kind of rubbing against each other, and

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Speaker 1: she noticed Lisa's just kind of wander through the parking lot,

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Speaker 1: not really aiming toward a car or anything, and so

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Speaker 1: and then she could hear her running up behind her,

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Speaker 1: and so Colleen threw her backpack in the back of

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Speaker 1: backseat of her car. She jumped in, she locked the door,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly there's this woman flapping at her window and

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Speaker 1: pulling at the door handle trying to get in and

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Speaker 1: can you swear on this show? Okay? So Colleen Shipman

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Speaker 1: looks up and says, holy lady, you know you scared

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Speaker 1: them out of me, and she, Lisa Noax, said, can

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Speaker 1: you give me a ride? My boyfriend isn't here to

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Speaker 1: pick me up. And Colleen, you know, said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I will go and get you some help, and and

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Speaker 1: in the back of her mind she's thinking, why is

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend picking her up in the parking lot and

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Speaker 1: not at the airport terminal. And so Lisa Noax said,

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Speaker 1: can I your phone? And Colleen's phone was dead, thankfully,

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Speaker 1: because Carlin might be dead if it hadn't been. So

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Speaker 1: she held up her phone and showed it to her

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Speaker 1: and she said it's it's dead. And Lisa said, what,

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Speaker 1: I can't hear you, and she kind of started to

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Speaker 1: cry and said, could you please help me? And Colleen

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Speaker 1: went to roll her window down just a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but it's one of those cars. It was a saturn

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Speaker 1: where if you touch the button, it just went all

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Speaker 1: the way down, and Colleen caught it before it went

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Speaker 1: all the way down, but it went down just enough

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Speaker 1: where Lisa Noah pulled a can of pepper spray out

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Speaker 1: and pepper sprayed Colleen. Shipment to doctor Sherry Schwartz, physics

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us at panther Mitigation dot com. And she

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Speaker 1: is an expert in criminal behavior and it's actually written

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Speaker 1: the book on that. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. It's amazing how we as humans have

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Speaker 1: this into tuition that something is not quite right. We

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Speaker 1: may not realize immediately that we are in peril, but

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Speaker 1: all of our senses scream something is off kilter. To

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Speaker 1: what do you attribute that, Well, that's our fight or

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Speaker 1: flight response. I remember when I was in college, one

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Speaker 1: of my professors called it lizard brain because it's so primitive.

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Speaker 1: It literally is our instinct telling us that something's not right.

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Speaker 1: And Colleen Shipman's intuition, her instinct went into overdrive because

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Speaker 1: she knew something was wrong. But she's also clearly empathic

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Speaker 1: because she sees a woman struggling and crying in front

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Speaker 1: of her, and she wants to help her. And this

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Speaker 1: is very often how female victims of crime get into

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Speaker 1: trouble from empathy. You're so right, doctor Sherry Schwartz. Yet

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Speaker 1: again to you, Cheryl McCullum. You and Ashi and I

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Speaker 1: have discussed many many times that feeling. I've spoken to

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Speaker 1: so many crime victims and their families, crime victims that

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Speaker 1: have an extreme sense of foreboding that something's not exactly

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Speaker 1: right before they become a victim, and crime victims families

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Speaker 1: that separated in time and space have a sense of

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Speaker 1: foreboding that something is going wrong. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: that is, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a hunch

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Speaker 1: or a gut feeling. I really believe Cheryl, it is

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Speaker 1: a sense that we have not yet identified as one

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Speaker 1: of the senses, such as touched to a smell, sight, hearing,

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Speaker 1: but something born of thousands and thousands of years, millions

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Speaker 1: of years of evolution. I think it's a very significant Oh.

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Speaker 1: I do too. Unfortunately, this victim listen to it. She

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Speaker 1: didn't ignore it and say, gosh, this poor woman is,

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Speaker 1: you know, stuck here. She's asking for help. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: help her. If she had led that woman into her vehicle,

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Speaker 1: she would be dead. She had cash, she had printed

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Speaker 1: out emails that she's spent hours reading, printed them out

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Speaker 1: to bring them with her. She had pepper spray, she

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Speaker 1: had a knife, Nancy a rubber mallet, she had gloves.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this was gonna be a horrible ending if

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Speaker 1: she get allowed that to happen. And the emails were

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Speaker 1: regarding what Cheryl McCollum the relationship between the victim and

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Speaker 1: the astronaut's former boyfriend. So she breaks into his house.

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Speaker 1: It starts reading all these emails about how they who

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Speaker 1: whoa wait, wait, wait wait, Lisa no whack the astronaut

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Speaker 1: breaks into boyfriend Bill oath Line aka Billy Oh, also

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Speaker 1: an astronaut home and what started reading? And I interject

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Speaker 1: something here. She actually had a jump in. She had

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Speaker 1: a key to his apartment that he had given to her,

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Speaker 1: and they thought that was stupid right there. Well, well

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Speaker 1: he used the key he gave her, but he didn't

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Speaker 1: want her there. They were done, so she used the

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Speaker 1: key that she shouldn't have used at that time to

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Speaker 1: read emails. She absolutely had no business reading that. I

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Speaker 1: think further flipped her out right. And you know, Ashley Walcott,

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Speaker 1: could somebody surprise me one time? Another a love triangle?

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't get it. I guess I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go to the shrink after you, Ashley. And I mean

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Speaker 1: that in a loving, caring way, Doctor Sherry Schwartz. But Ashley,

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Speaker 1: another a love triangle attack by another killer girlfriend. Listen,

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Speaker 1: if the guy's dating somebody else, leave right who wants sake?

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Speaker 1: You know, That's what I've told my children. When you

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Speaker 1: grow up and you have a boyfriend's slash girlfriend or whatever,

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Speaker 1: don't chase them, because what do you do when somebody

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Speaker 1: chases you, run, don't chase them. You want another woman, fine,

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Speaker 1: have at it. I mean I don't give it. Well,

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Speaker 1: and you should allow to think more of yourself. Well,

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Speaker 1: what ask? You should think more of yourself? Right? If

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Speaker 1: somebody doesn't want you, guess what? Okay, then I don't

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Speaker 1: want you either, because I think enough of myself to

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Speaker 1: realize I deserve to be with somebody who wants to

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Speaker 1: be with me. And like you said, le Plus Ashley,

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Speaker 1: if somebody didn't want to be with you, they're clearly

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Speaker 1: insane and you don't need their doctor bills. Okay. Did

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Speaker 1: I hear Sherry Schwartz jumping in? Yeah, I was laughing,

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Speaker 1: but this is this is really no laughing matter. You know.

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Speaker 1: I under well, I'm happy because in this case it's

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Speaker 1: a rarity for me and we're doing a jig here

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Speaker 1: in the studio because the victim actually live this time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a huge moment of celebration for us, doctor

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Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz. Guess typically by the time it gets on

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Speaker 1: crime stories, you're looking at a funeral and we're not today.

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Speaker 1: So I'm happy about this. But it's this close. You're right,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very serious. Go ahead, Well, I understand, you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot I remember the case actually because

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Speaker 1: I live in Florida, but there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: talk at the time, and even now through Kimberly Moore's book,

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Speaker 1: which is very good. I haven't gotten through it completely yet,

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Speaker 1: but it's very good think about her being mentally ill,

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Speaker 1: and seriously mentally ill. People don't have the they're not

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Speaker 1: able to be that organized in their thinking to be

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Speaker 1: able to do all of the planning that she did.

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Speaker 1: And there's so many points in the planning, the disguise

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Speaker 1: to getting in the car, to all the weapons that

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Speaker 1: she had with her, and all the things stopping into

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Speaker 1: funiac springs that speak to there's probably some mental health

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Speaker 1: issue there, more likely a personnelity the disorder. And this

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Speaker 1: rage that's directed at miss Colleen Shipman is this sounds

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Speaker 1: to me more like narcissistic rage. Now I've never met

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Speaker 1: Lisa Noac, I don't really know all of the you know,

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Speaker 1: ins and outs of her psychopathology, but narcissistic rage is

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Speaker 1: this is this outburst of intense anger and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be screaming and yelling. It could be silent,

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Speaker 1: simmering but what happens is somebody who has a narcissistic

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Speaker 1: personality disorder. They have this exaggerated or overly inflated sense

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Speaker 1: of their own self importance, and so when they're told no,

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Speaker 1: they don't like that. And Lisa Noac was someone who

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Speaker 1: was rarely told no. She had to work very hard.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure to assend to the level that she did,

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Speaker 1: but she was rarely told no. And so when she's

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Speaker 1: being told no, if you have, you know, this level

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Speaker 1: of narcissism, well that is unacceptable because you have this

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Speaker 1: inflation sense of self importance. You think that you are

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Speaker 1: the best of the best. How dare this woman get

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Speaker 1: in my way? I'm going to fix it her way.

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Speaker 1: And I time stories with Nancy Grace Kimberly Moore. I

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Speaker 1: want to hear a little bit about no x background,

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Speaker 1: how she worked her way all the way up to

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Speaker 1: become one of the first female astronauts. Okay, and I

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Speaker 1: do have her psychiatric evaluations, and I'll go over in

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Speaker 1: just a second her diagnosis. So she was co valedictorian

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Speaker 1: of Charles Woodward High School in nineteen eighty one. She

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Speaker 1: was at the top of her class. She went to

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Speaker 1: the Naval Academy in nineteen eighty one, and that was

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Speaker 1: a time when not very many women, and so i'm

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure there was hazing involved. I know

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Speaker 1: there's kind of an infamous story among her classmates. Once

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Speaker 1: you arrive at the Naval Academy, they cut your hair,

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Speaker 1: they give you your uniform as a pleab or, and

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Speaker 1: and then you take all your stuff that they've given you.

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Speaker 1: They give you a duffel bag and you go up

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Speaker 1: to your room. And it took her an hour to

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Speaker 1: find her room in I believe it's Bancroft Hall, which

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Speaker 1: houses all of the midshipment. So she graduated in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty five, and excuse me, became a naval lieutenant and

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Speaker 1: she went to flight training in Pensacola. She eventually learned

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Speaker 1: how to fly thirty different kinds of aircraft, including experimental aircraft.

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Speaker 1: And in nineteen ninety five, she and twenty five hundred

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Speaker 1: other people applied to become an astronaut. One hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty were chosen for interviews, and then in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: six she was selected for that astronaut class. And that

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Speaker 1: astronaut class actually included a couple of people who died

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Speaker 1: on the Space Shuttle Columbia. The only woman that she

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Speaker 1: really was ever truly close to was doctor Laurel Clark,

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Speaker 1: who perished on board Columbia. And you know, and Lisa

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Speaker 1: sat in her living room with her son and watched

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Speaker 1: this happen on NASA TV, and she, you know, she

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Speaker 1: and the other astronauts knew what had happened, and they

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Speaker 1: knew that their friends had died because there just was

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Speaker 1: no way to survive that. So at the time, I

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Speaker 1: believe her son was about nine or ten years old,

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Speaker 1: and she also had twin girls, and so she was

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Speaker 1: a mom of three children. She was running the household

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Speaker 1: by herself because I believe her husband was deployed after

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Speaker 1: the nine to eleven horrible incident, so you know, she

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Speaker 1: had a lot of pressure. She was also the family

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Speaker 1: liaison officer for Laurel Clark's family, helping them fill out

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Speaker 1: the paperwork, which you know, there's mounds and mounds of

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Speaker 1: paperwork when anyone dies, but you know, here we have astronauts.

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Speaker 1: And Laurel Clark had a son who was about her

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Speaker 1: own son's age, and she looked after him and took

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Speaker 1: care of him. Wow. So she's super mom and an

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Speaker 1: astronaut right and so much more. You met she took

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Speaker 1: her an hour to get to her room at the

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Speaker 1: Naval Academy. What's the significance of that? She had no

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Speaker 1: sense of direction? And you know, in the past, I

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00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: used to think that only dumb people got lost. But

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Speaker 1: I have a very good friend. She's one of the

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Speaker 1: smartest people I know, and she could not find her

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Speaker 1: way out of a wet paper bag. You know. I've

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00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: been reading about that just recently, and apparently it has

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Speaker 1: something um physical as it's you're the way you're hardwired.

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Speaker 1: Either you are a good pathfinder or you're not, and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of genetic. There's feeling nothing you can do

424
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: about it. I guess hence all the maps she had.

425
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: So this incredible woman is in the middle of a

426
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: love triangle. Take a listen to our friends at ABC

427
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: cut eight. But in previously unreleased audio recordings of her

428
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: interrogation obtained by twenty twenty, she hints at her affections

429
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: for the same men. I don't feel like I don't

430
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: just weeks or oh Flyne, also known as Billy oh

431
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: phighlighted a shuttle home from the space station. But now

432
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: he may face an even greater challenge navigating the perils

433
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: of Lisa and Colleen so too. Kimberly Seymore, investigative reporter

434
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: and author of the Story of Lisa Noah on Amazon.

435
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: How did she and I assume she's still married? She

436
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: being Lisa Noac? The mom askedtronaut get hooked up with

437
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: Billy Line Billy, another astronaut, how'd that happened? Well, her

438
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: marriage had been pretty rocky and they had agreed years

439
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: before her shuttle flight in July of two thousand and

440
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: six that once she was down with her flight, they

441
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: would they would part ways. And um so she and

442
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: Billy they had met actually at Paxton at Naval Air

443
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: Station um in Mary, Ireland, and they went on cold

444
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: weather survival training in Canada in two thousand and four,

445
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: and it was a year after the Columbia accident, and

446
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: it was really, I think the first time that she

447
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: was away from home and away from all those responsibilities,

448
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: and he was on this training. I believe there were

449
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: eight astronauts on it. You know, there's camp fires, there's tents,

450
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: there's trying to stay warm, and the speculation is that

451
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: that's where it began and he married. He was married

452
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: at the time of this survival training. He got divorced

453
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: the following year. His mother in law originally came out

454
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: and blamed Lisa after this incident happened. She said that

455
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: Lisa was the reason his marriage fell apart. She recanted

456
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: on that. So you know, they were seeing each other,

457
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: they made plans to spend their lives together and um,

458
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: and so this was not just a fleeting affair. Oh No,

459
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: between Lisa Nowack and as married astronaut Billy ath a line,

460
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: this has been going on planned. Why so, I guess

461
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: that makes the rejection even worse, right, So, in November

462
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: she had about five major life events happened in the

463
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: span of five weeks. He met Colleen Shipman in November

464
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: of two thousand and six, and the attraction and the

465
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: sparks were immediate and they fell in love. As a

466
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: matter of fact, it was so quick that he invited

467
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: her to be at his Space Shuttle launch in December.

468
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: And Okay, I'm sorry, Kimberly Moore, I disagree because Sheryl

469
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: McCallum say, I'm driving through the drive through, and I said,

470
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: what many people would think is a good looking man.

471
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: You know what I think over his head, nothing but trouble.

472
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: So when you feel that spark, yeah, then you can decide, oh,

473
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: should we go have coffee? No, you shouldn't, because that's

474
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: how things. Quote just happened. It just happened. No, it

475
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: didn't just happen. You made it happen. You know, I

476
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: see this a little bit. You say that Stewie kettle

477
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 1: of fish go by. That's nothing but trouble. Don't go

478
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: have a cup of coffee. Don't just meet for a lunch,

479
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: don't that's how it happens. Yeah, well, none of it

480
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: just happened. There's some stamps involved. But I just want

481
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: to point out one thing. High school, top of her class. College,

482
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: she was at the top military academy, very rigorous. Then

483
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: she goes into a master's degree, Nancy for aeronautical engineering,

484
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: you know again rigorous, thanking my head, brilliant. Then she

485
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: goes the astronaut training of first come. This woman ever fails.

486
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: It is her marriage. The second time she fails. Oh

487
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: we need a shrink on that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,

488
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz. Cheryl McCollum is right, So this would

489
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: be her first big fail. Well, it does seem that

490
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: way based on what we know about her. There may

491
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: have been some you know, less dramatic failures, you know,

492
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: along the way, along her journey through school and things

493
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: like that, but it doesn't sound like that. It sounds

494
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: like this was someone who was incredibly successful. We know

495
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: that this is objective evidence, right, She became an astronaut

496
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: at NASA as a woman, you know, at that time.

497
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: In particular, I can only imagine how hard she had

498
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: to work to get there. But that's why I feel

499
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: like russure and now this the one thing. She can't

500
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: make it work because Billy Oh has suddenly fallen for

501
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: somebody else. That's someone Colleen Shipman. Take a listen to

502
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: Colleen Shipman. Are cut nine. My name is Colleen Shipman.

503
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: Shortly after I turned thirty years old, Lisa Noac aunted

504
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: me down and attacked me and a parking lot. Her

505
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: attack was part of a well researched, well planned, and

506
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: deliberate crime. Now, almost three years later, I'm still reeling

507
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: from her vicious attack, and I'm still trying to put

508
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: my life back together amidst the terrible, rementless media scrutiny

509
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: that Lisa Noac, thank you brought down on me, first

510
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: with her attack and later with her PR campaign. I

511
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: knew in my heart when Lisa Noac attacked me that

512
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: she was going to kill me. It was in her

513
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: eyes a blood chilling expression of limitless rage and glee.

514
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: It's my understanding that Lisa Noac had researched murder, corpse dismemberment,

515
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 1: as well as disguises and trace evidence. I'm one hundred

516
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: percent certain that Lisa Noak came here to murder me.

517
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: Oh yes, she did research corpse dismemberment. And to you,

518
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: kimberly See Moore, author of star Cross, the story of

519
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: astronaut Lisa Noac, what does Colleen's Shipman mean when she

520
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: describes noax pr campaign against me? Oh gosh, part of

521
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: what her attorney, Donald Lickaback. And by the way, if

522
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: you're ever in trouble in Orlando, you want to call

523
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: Donald Lickaback because he got a great deal for Lisa Noack.

524
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: But now a fast but I hope we never made

525
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: go ahead. He he posited that Colleen Shipman actually was

526
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: not pepper sprayed. The pepper spraye went into her car.

527
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean she did suffer the ill effects of being

528
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: pepper sprayed. He I'm trying to think what I mean.

529
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: He also said that the diaper story was not true.

530
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: He said, blah blah blah. That sounds like a defense

531
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: attorney throwing anything he can up against the wall. Take

532
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: to listen to Colleen Shipman. She began preparing for her

533
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: crimes weeks before she committed them. She thoroughly researched my

534
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: personal information. She entered my boyfriend's apartment, and without his

535
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: permission or knowledge, she stole my contact information, my travel itinerary,

536
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: and several personal emails between myself and my boyfriend. She

537
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: also collected my address, the latitude and longitude coordinates of

538
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: my house, directions to my house, my cell phone number,

539
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: and my email address. She gathered weapons and tortured devices, which,

540
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: in her own words, were too scary to even think about,

541
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: but apparently not scary enough to prevent her from bringing

542
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: them along. During her attack on me, Lisa NOAXX claimed

543
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: that she only wanted to talk to me. Is it

544
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: best ridiculous? I believe it is one of many lies

545
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: that she designed to deceive and gain sympathy from this court. NASA,

546
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: the US Navy, her friends, her family, and the American people.

547
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: Please don't be fooled. I was fooled. Lisa Noak is

548
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: a very good actress to you, actually will caught judge

549
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: and trial lawyer anchor Court TV. She was researching corpse dismemberment.

550
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: She had the longitude and latitude of the victim's home,

551
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: and reportedly she had a double bag full of torture devices.

552
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: That's attempted murder absolutely. I was just going to say

553
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: that as well, and premeditated. We go back to that piece, premeditated.

554
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: Look at all the plannings she put into it. It

555
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: is attempted murder. Not only that, but I just have

556
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: to comment it is not unusual exceedingly intelligent individuals when

557
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: they partake and criminal activity and become someone who gets

558
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: obsessed like this, go to such great lengths and have

559
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: a very deliberate, well thought out in their mind plans.

560
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: You know what, You're so right, Ashley? What's again? And

561
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: of course you know your way around the courtroom, Kimberly seymore,

562
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about this alleged duffel bag

563
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: full of torture devices? Well, Mark Ferman called it a

564
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: murder kit. She had the steel mallet. She had a

565
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: baby pistol that was loaded and ready to fire. And

566
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: she had a hunting knife, the five inch hunting knife.

567
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: But she had bought She had bought the baby pistol

568
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: and the hunting knife in the weeks before this happened.

569
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: And I want to go back to her psychological diagnosis.

570
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: She had a Baker's dozen lists of diagnosis, but the

571
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: major ones were obsessive compulsive disorder, major depressive disorder, a

572
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: single episode that was severe, a brief psychotic disorder with

573
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: march stressors producing a mixed manic and depressive state, Asperger's disorder,

574
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: and she had she had stopped eating and sleeping basically

575
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: in the five weeks leading up to this. You know,

576
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 1: her husband moved out in mid December. She was told

577
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: she would not get the next Shuttle mission, and because

578
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: there were so few Shuttle missions left, that essentially ended

579
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: her astronaut career. She was told she was not a

580
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: good team player in space, and that's you want to

581
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: be able to depend on your coworkers in space. She

582
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: lost fifteen percent of her body mash. She went from

583
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: one twenty seven to one oh seven, and she was

584
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: already a very petite but fit woman, and to drop

585
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: down to one oh seven was huge. She told her

586
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: psychiatrists that she had reached this euphoric state where she

587
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: felt like really didn't need to sleep a whole lot,

588
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: and she was sleeping two to three hours a night,

589
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, her husband moved out. And

590
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: then after January, after the new year, is when Billy

591
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: Okline sat her down and said, Hey, I've met somebody

592
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: else and I want to pursue a relationship with this woman,

593
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, Kimberly Seymour. I appreciate all that I really do,

594
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: and if I were a dear Abby, i'd write a

595
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: really long leader addressing each one of those. But I'm

596
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: not dear Abby. I'm looking for the truth about an

597
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: attempted murder. Right the rest is just don't care. Take

598
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: a listen to Kalie's shipman are cut thirteen. In her

599
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: own words, she blasted me with what felt like acid.

600
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: It burned my eyes, my nose, in my mouth, and

601
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: it sucked the air out of me. I don't know

602
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: what other weapons she had at there ready, because I

603
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: didn't hang around to find out. I stomped on the

604
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: gas and I wondered if there was a gun pointed

605
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: at my head. My eyes and throat were on fire,

606
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: my lungs ached for air. I fought the urge to

607
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: breathe in whatever poison it was. That she hits Braden backing,

608
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: and I was sure that she had just tried to

609
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: kill me to steal my car. I had no idea

610
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: that a high ranking, high paid military officer had just

611
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: attacked me. I believe I escaped a horrible death at night.

612
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: It was a nightmare, and the nightmare continues in the

613
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,479
Speaker 1: media with suggestions that I lied or changed. Lisa Noac

614
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: attacked me is the truth, and I never changed my story.

615
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: Lisa Noac did chase me to my car. She did

616
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: force her way into my car. She tricked me in

617
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: it with pepper spray, and she did spray me directly

618
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: with pepper spray. I just can't get over the computer

619
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: searches for corpse dismemberment and so many other indications premeditated

620
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: attempted murder, Kimberly see more. I take it that now

621
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: Lisa noaht female astronaut, is now out of jail, walking free.

622
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: What has happened to the other characters of this scenario

623
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: for ass Helleen Shipman, the victim, and the love object

624
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: Billy Offline. Well, so Lisa Noac had a hearing with

625
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: the Navy about a year after she pled no contests

626
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: and adjudication was withheld. So the hearing with the Navy

627
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: was to determine whether or not they were going to

628
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: let her stay in and she was dismissed from the

629
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: Navy with an other than honorable discharge, which meant she

630
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: could keep her Navy pension, which she did, which is

631
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: about six thousand dollars a month. And from what I understand,

632
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: she might be doing some consulting work with the aviation

633
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: industry or even with the Navy itself. So Colleen Shipman

634
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,479
Speaker 1: and Billy Offline were not at her navel hearing because

635
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: they had the best excuse ever. They were on their

636
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: honeymoon in Bora, Bora. I guess that they now had.

637
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 1: They now have a son who they're teaching to fly.

638
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: They live in Alaska and just living happily ever after

639
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: college there. She is in Houston and sometimes in San

640
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 1: Diego or near San Diego. So they got as far

641
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: away from her as possible. You can't really get much

642
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: further away than Alaska and live in the US Alaska, right.

643
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: He is from Alaska, grew up there. His parents are there.

644
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: I advise them to stay there. Long story short, she's

645
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: walking free, Colleen shipman and Sat marrying Billie, a feline,

646
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: and the two of them live happily ever after. But

647
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: think of how close this came to a very different

648
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: ending about that far, just that much further down that window,

649
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: and I know it would have got her hand around

650
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: Colleen's shipman's throat. Kill our girlfriends. Nancy Grace signing off,

651
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,