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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight, presented by Fan Duel

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Speaker 1: here at the volume Happy Tuesday. Everybody. We are live

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Speaker 1: on and don't forget if you're watching on YouTube or

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Speaker 1: listening on our podcast feeding Amps's very first place that

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Speaker 1: you guys can get these shows. Maybe an extremely special

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Speaker 1: guest today, a good friend of mine, mister Sam Vissini

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Speaker 1: from the Athletic is going to be joining us to

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Speaker 1: talk about the top tier of contenders in the league,

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Speaker 1: the teams that we both think have real chances to

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Speaker 1: win the title and then we're gonna do a little

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Speaker 1: dive into the MVP discussion, the dreaded MVP discussion. You

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Speaker 1: guys know the job. Before we get started, subscribe to

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Speaker 1: our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason lt

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Speaker 1: can find them wherever you get your podcasts Under Hoops Tonight,

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Speaker 1: lowest price guarantee. All right, let's talk some basketball. So

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Speaker 1: I'm extremely excited to be bringing on Senior mba writer

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Speaker 1: at The Athletic host of the Game Theory podcast, where

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Speaker 1: I have been very blessed to appear as a guest

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Speaker 1: a couple of times, someone who's one of my very

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Speaker 1: favorite people in the world to talk basketball with, mister

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Speaker 1: Sam Vissini. Sam, how are you doing man? Well? Jason,

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Speaker 1: that's so nice because I feel the exact same way

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Speaker 1: about you, and I'm so excited to do this. Genuinely,

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Speaker 1: there are very few things that I feel less excited

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Speaker 1: to talk about than this MVP discourse. But doing it

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Speaker 1: with you, I feel like will be less frustrating than

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Speaker 1: the general discourse that we see online. So I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah, I undred percent agree. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to dig into your process a little bit. I've got

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Speaker 1: I've got a little bit of a system that I've

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Speaker 1: been using. This will be the fourth year that I've

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Speaker 1: used this system, and I'm really curious just to see

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Speaker 1: your general approach to it. And then you and I

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Speaker 1: have had an interesting conversation in the past about the

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Speaker 1: role of advanced metrics in these discussions too that I

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Speaker 1: want to get into, but I did want to start

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Speaker 1: just kind of it kind of feels like we are

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Speaker 1: that the league in general is starting to kind of

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Speaker 1: settle into what it's gonna look like here as we

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Speaker 1: head into the postseason. You're playing teams are kind of

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Speaker 1: looking like the playing teams, and your top six are

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Speaker 1: kind of looking like the top six. The only seed

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Speaker 1: that I don't think is one hundred percent set is

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Speaker 1: that sixth, sixth seed in the Western Conference, just because

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Speaker 1: some of the uncertainty surrounding Golden State with their lack

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Speaker 1: of wing depth. But what I wanted to do today

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Speaker 1: is just kind of take a break and zoom out

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Speaker 1: a little bit and talk a little bit about championship contenders.

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Speaker 1: So I've used tears in the past where I include

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Speaker 1: teams that have like super long shot chances. But what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do is I wanted to get your

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Speaker 1: opinion on a list of teams that you think have

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Speaker 1: a real chance to win a title. So what I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do is I'm gonna read you mine and if

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Speaker 1: there's anybody on that list that you disagree with, I

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Speaker 1: want you to tell me. And if there's anybody that's

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Speaker 1: not on that list that you'd like to add, I'd

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Speaker 1: like you to make that case. So the teams that

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Speaker 1: I think have a real chance to win a championship

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Speaker 1: right now out east are just Milwaukee, Boston in Philly.

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Speaker 1: Is there anybody in that list that you would add

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Speaker 1: or remove? So are we talking like super long shots

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Speaker 1: or are we talking and just like like the calves

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Speaker 1: of the number one net rating in the NBA right now,

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Speaker 1: like I am concerned. I don't think they are nearly

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Speaker 1: on the level of the top three that you just said.

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Speaker 1: I do think that they cause real problems for Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: in a potential playoffs series, because if we look at

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Speaker 1: the teams that have beaten Philadelphia previously in playoffs series,

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Speaker 1: is you look at the Atlanta Hawks specifically. It's the

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Speaker 1: teams that can really kill you when you're playing drop

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Speaker 1: coverage with Joel Embiid, and both Darius Garland and Donovan

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Speaker 1: Mitchell have the capability to do that. Now, do I

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Speaker 1: think the Calves have a great match up against Boston

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Speaker 1: or Milwaukee. I do not, but they are number one

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Speaker 1: in net rating. They have a better record than I

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Speaker 1: think all but one team in the Western Conference. I

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Speaker 1: at least will throw them in as a two or

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Speaker 1: three percent chance. That's super interesting. So I know Calves

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Speaker 1: fans feel this way. And there's really two things for

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Speaker 1: me that are the earmining factor for me leaving them

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Speaker 1: off that list. First of all, I do believe that

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Speaker 1: having two small guards in your backcourt. Even though I

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Speaker 1: think both Mitchell and Garland have defended better than we

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Speaker 1: could have anticipated this year, I do want to give

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Speaker 1: them that amount of credit. But as we know, the

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Speaker 1: personnel shortcomings kind of supersed how you participate schematically when

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Speaker 1: you get onto that stage. So I worry a little

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Speaker 1: bit about their entry points in the backcourt, and then

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Speaker 1: teams are really starting to sell out on the Mitchell

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Speaker 1: Garland pick and roll, ignoring their off ball shooting. It's

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Speaker 1: it's been just a Schmogese board of like, let's try

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Speaker 1: Chetti Osman for a little while. Okay, well, Lamar Stevens

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Speaker 1: is making some shots, Let's go with him for a

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Speaker 1: little while. And So when I really think about the

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Speaker 1: way teams are going to ignore Evan Mobiley and whoever

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Speaker 1: it is that gets that three spot off ball, and

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Speaker 1: Karis Laverte obviously gives you a better offensive option there,

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Speaker 1: but he's not the same level of defensive player as

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Speaker 1: Isaac Akoro or Lamar Stevens, who they've been using as

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Speaker 1: primary point of attack guys in a lot of cases. So, like,

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Speaker 1: I just worry about them being the tech spook type

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Speaker 1: of team that will struggle in the playoffs as teams

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Speaker 1: really exaggerate attacking their weaknesses. So is there anything that

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Speaker 1: I said there that you would disagree with? No, I

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Speaker 1: will say they have the number one defense in the

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Speaker 1: NBA right now. I think their defense is less built

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Speaker 1: toward being a great playoff team in many of the

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Speaker 1: same ways that you just discussed. The guy that I

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Speaker 1: can't figure out why they don't play as Dean Wade.

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Speaker 1: Dean Wade gives them that shooting and that length defensively

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Speaker 1: that I think is actually what they need, but they

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Speaker 1: are not playing him, and I don't know that we

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Speaker 1: can consider that a real potential outcome here, and that's

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Speaker 1: not anymore, I don't think. So he's not on their

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Speaker 1: injury report. So like you look through like the injury report,

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Speaker 1: it says Jared Allen, doesn't say no Evan Mobile or

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Speaker 1: doesn't say Dean Wade right now, So who knows? But

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Speaker 1: I yeah, look, I agree with everything you're saying. It's

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Speaker 1: just that they have the number one defense in the league.

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Speaker 1: They have figured out a way to work around the guards.

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Speaker 1: I do think their defense will be diminished in the

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Speaker 1: playoffs because of those mismatch problems. I think Donovan has

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Speaker 1: been very good defensively and is willingness to fight. But realistically,

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Speaker 1: I think we're probably spending too much time on the

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Speaker 1: Cavs world Cavs fans. Sam believes in you guys, so

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Speaker 1: that that probably means even more than anything I have

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Speaker 1: to say. So take that so out West and I

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Speaker 1: know this is going to ruffle some feathers in Sacramento,

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Speaker 1: in Memphis. But I only have five teams, the Denver Nuggets,

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Speaker 1: the Phoenix Suns, the Golden State Warriors, who I'm tempted

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Speaker 1: to remove, and then the Los Angeles Lakers, and the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Clippers. Is there any part of that list

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Speaker 1: that you would disagree with? I don't know that I

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Speaker 1: would have anybody but the Suns and maybe the Nuggets

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Speaker 1: and Lakers on that list. And I think the Clippers

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Speaker 1: offense is unfortunately just been too stagnant. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit too easy to really muck them up

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Speaker 1: just by playing tough man to man defense. If you

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Speaker 1: have on ball defenders that can make life harder for

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Speaker 1: Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. You're never going to stop them,

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Speaker 1: but if you can make them five percent less efficient,

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Speaker 1: it's really really hard for their offense. The Warriors, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just hard to know without Andrew Wiggins right now.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they can win a title without Andrew Wiggins.

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Speaker 1: Given what we've seen, I think I think we can

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Speaker 1: say that definitively. You know, Yeah, this is not a

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Speaker 1: profile of a team that has been successful in the

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Speaker 1: playoffs previously, and without Andrew Wiggins, it's just going to

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Speaker 1: be I think, way too difficult for them to find

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Speaker 1: the consistent offense and defense. That's what Wiggins brings. He

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Speaker 1: brings them the two way play that they need on

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Speaker 1: the wing that you know, Clay Thompson, as good as

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Speaker 1: play is still even coming back from the multiple injuries,

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Speaker 1: he's not always a two way player at this point

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Speaker 1: in his career because of the injuries. So I need

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Speaker 1: I think they need that on potential stopper in Wiggins.

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Speaker 1: I think they need the offense that he provides as well,

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Speaker 1: potentially in second units. I really think it's going to

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Speaker 1: be tough without Wiggins for the Warriors. Yeah, it's funny

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Speaker 1: because with Golden State, I'm in a similar position. They

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Speaker 1: can hardly contend with good teams without Andrew Wiggins and

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Speaker 1: Gary Peyton. It's just they were already close to the

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Speaker 1: line of minimum allowable athleticism and height on the perimeter

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Speaker 1: to contend when they were healthy. Last year, they overcame

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Speaker 1: that just because they were so good everywhere else. But

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Speaker 1: without those two, they dip below that line to that

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Speaker 1: point of no return. The other thing, I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Clippers piece because I viewed a weird kind

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Speaker 1: of offensive approach with them too. But another thing that

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Speaker 1: I've really noticed, especially in the last couple of months,

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Speaker 1: is their lack of rim protection. And I know that

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Speaker 1: you think of Zubak is the kind of guy who

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Speaker 1: could do that at a decent level, and Plumbly's fine,

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Speaker 1: but their numbers in protecting the paint have been atrocious

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Speaker 1: over the course of the last month. And everything about

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Speaker 1: NBA history tells us you need an elite defensive front

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Speaker 1: court to win an NBA championship, and part of me

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Speaker 1: wants to go Kawai and Paul George doesn't that kind

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Speaker 1: of somewhat make up for that, But they just haven't

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Speaker 1: been able to protect the paint. So that's been a

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Speaker 1: big reason that I've been somewhat on the fence with them.

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Speaker 1: Are you would you include Memphis and Sacramento in this

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Speaker 1: equation or do you agree with me that they that

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Speaker 1: they don't have a chance. I would not at this

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Speaker 1: point include them Sacramento. I just think it's way too

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Speaker 1: hard for them to defend. I think the teams are

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Speaker 1: gonna be able to take advantage of them defensively. All

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Speaker 1: due respects. I love the Kings. I love what they've

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Speaker 1: done this season. I just don't see an NBA title

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Speaker 1: level defense whenever they're going to be playing, for instance,

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Speaker 1: potentially Phoenix, if Phoenix is full strength, I don't see

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Speaker 1: how that's like not a four or five game series.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the Kings get hot, Memphis is harder, Memphis is mips.

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Speaker 1: This tricky just because of the Job Morant issue that's

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Speaker 1: hanging over all of this. What's does he look like

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Speaker 1: when he comes back? Is he the same uber, confident,

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Speaker 1: attack oriented John Morant every single game in game out.

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Speaker 1: We're recording this before he has actually returned. At this point,

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Speaker 1: my read is I think they have real deficiencies even

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Speaker 1: with John Morant, because Jah is their lead scorer, he

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Speaker 1: is their key offensive option. He is not really a

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Speaker 1: threat that teams are all that worried about beyond the

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Speaker 1: three point line as they pull up threat and he

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Speaker 1: is not really all that big of a threat that

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Speaker 1: teams worry about in the mid range area. If you

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Speaker 1: stop him from getting to that little floater that he has,

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Speaker 1: I think because of that, it's a little bit easier

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Speaker 1: to drop coverage them, And I think teams that can

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Speaker 1: drop are going to have an easier time with them

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Speaker 1: kind of managing their offensive game plans, and then defensively,

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Speaker 1: Jab is a real guy that they have to work

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Speaker 1: around on that end. You know, Desmond Bane, Dylan Brooks,

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Speaker 1: those guys fight. But if you have to have Dylan

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Speaker 1: Brooks out there, you're losing something offensively in terms of

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Speaker 1: efficiency as well. So I as much as I love Memphis,

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Speaker 1: I love the projects. I love what that front office

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Speaker 1: has done to accumulate this group of talent. I think

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Speaker 1: they're a year away at this point. Yeah, it's super

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Speaker 1: interesting because Memphis crosses a couple of specific boxes that

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Speaker 1: I value a great deal. I think their interior defense

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Speaker 1: is outrageously good. Did you see that stat from the

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Speaker 1: Warriors game the other day that they held them to

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Speaker 1: twenty two for forty eight shooting in the paint? There?

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Speaker 1: Jaren Jackson every month that I watched him, looks one

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Speaker 1: step closer to becoming, you know, the next kind of

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Speaker 1: Anthony Davis level two way power forward defensive prospect that

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Speaker 1: we have in this league. And I love that about

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Speaker 1: them as a foundational piece as a championship contender. I

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Speaker 1: think the Dylan Brooks thing and I hate that guy

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Speaker 1: because I think I think he's. I think he ever.

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Speaker 1: I was out on him before he shoved the cameraman

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Speaker 1: and that was kind of like the last thing. But

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Speaker 1: the reality is is, like I also think he's. I

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Speaker 1: think he's got a case to be considered the best

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Speaker 1: perimeter defender in basketball right now. He's putting he's putting

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Speaker 1: together a body count this year of stars, Like like

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Speaker 1: even in that Kyrie game, I think he was eleven

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Speaker 1: for twenty five. Like I think he did a number

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Speaker 1: on Steph in those two games. He and look, I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying I need I need larger sample size. I

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Speaker 1: need to see more versatility to put him into that equation.

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Speaker 1: Like I think what Andrew Wiggins did to Luca and

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Speaker 1: to Jayson Tatum in the last two rounds of the

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Speaker 1: playoffs is a more impressive case, and I would need

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Speaker 1: to see something better than that on a playoff stage.

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Speaker 1: But like, I don't think it's a coincidence that every

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Speaker 1: star that runs into Dillon Brooks this year is having

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Speaker 1: like the nightmarishly bad games. It's like that that to

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Speaker 1: me is real. But outside of those two things, I

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Speaker 1: think their offensive creation from the standpoint of dribble creation

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Speaker 1: from the perimeter in their play finishing off ball like there,

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Speaker 1: I think I think I looked it up the other day.

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Speaker 1: They're a bottom five spot up team in the league

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Speaker 1: by points per possession, which is ridicus. I think even Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: who we talked about earlier as a team that was

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Speaker 1: really ill equipped in that zone, was eighteenth, so significantly

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Speaker 1: higher up. They're less than a point for less than

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Speaker 1: a point per possession on spot up situations. So I

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Speaker 1: just don't think they have nearly enough offensive skill to

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Speaker 1: make their defense, to make their defense weaponizable in a

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Speaker 1: way that can win a championship. You and I actually,

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Speaker 1: in our two shows that we've done together, we've never

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Speaker 1: actually talked Lakers, So I how did that happen? I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man, I don't know. But like, so here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. I if Lebron James can come back and

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Speaker 1: get help, yeah, I am gonna be so tempted to

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Speaker 1: pick them to come out of the West. When I

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Speaker 1: think about the combination of Rock Fight winning just huge

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Speaker 1: front court players and Lebron James and Anthony Day, Like,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine the two of them battling with Harrison

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Speaker 1: Barnes and Demonisi bonus for seven games. Like like, I

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Speaker 1: think about the front court mismatches that they present. I

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Speaker 1: think about the matchup versatility with the guy like Nicola Yokich.

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Speaker 1: I think about the influx of offensive skill, which is

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Speaker 1: not They're not the most offensively skilled team in the world,

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Speaker 1: but they've added a significant amount of it. The ability

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Speaker 1: to weaponize guys like Jared Vanderbilt in high, high pressure

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Speaker 1: perimeter assignments that can that he can do. And I

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Speaker 1: actually think that they've overachieved a little bit in this

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Speaker 1: recent stretch because so many elements of their starting lineup

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Speaker 1: don't make as much sense without Lebron, like Vanderbilts actually

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Speaker 1: struggled for them quite a bit, I think in large

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Speaker 1: part because without Lebron out there to kind of weaponize

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Speaker 1: him as a cutter off the ball, his lack of

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Speaker 1: his inability to shoot has been a problem. But I

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Speaker 1: just think when I look at the Western Conference, a

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Speaker 1: healthy Lakers team I think has a higher two way

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Speaker 1: ceiling than everyone else. Do you think I'm too high

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Speaker 1: on them or do you feel a similar way. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they have a higher two way ceiling than Phoenix.

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Speaker 1: I think they're probably number two, okay. And the reason

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Speaker 1: I say that, Look, they're sixteen to one right now

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Speaker 1: to win the West. Like that's a crazy number to me.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea how that's a real thing this team.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the Vanderbilt piece of it,

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Speaker 1: because he is a critical piece for them. He only

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Speaker 1: works with Lebron is out there because if he, if

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Speaker 1: Vanderbilt is out there, he is taking something off the

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Speaker 1: court in terms of your creation ability and in terms

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Speaker 1: of your offense. He's a great rim runner. He is

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Speaker 1: a great offensive rebounding threat. He is someone that will

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Speaker 1: attack the glass and will attack you with the point

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Speaker 1: of attack defensively and will rebound to be an incredible

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Speaker 1: help defender across the board. He's a really valuable piece

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Speaker 1: for them. I just also think that they really need

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Speaker 1: him on the court because Lebron James getting a little

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Speaker 1: bit older. I think he'll lock in defensively in the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: But he is someone that needs the possessions off You

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Speaker 1: need someone to be able to guard the opposing player's

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Speaker 1: primary or the opposing team's primary offensive weapon night in,

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Speaker 1: night out. The other piece of this is what is

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Speaker 1: gonna what is gonna What is the Russell gonna look

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Speaker 1: like with Lebron James. I think it's gonna look really good. Assistently,

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Speaker 1: I think that part of what the Angelo Russell has

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Speaker 1: struggled with previously in his career is when he has

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Speaker 1: to like manage that Okay, I'm the point guard. I

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Speaker 1: need to get everybody involved. I need to be the

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Speaker 1: key distributor for the team versus just going out there

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Speaker 1: and playing. When he's had the ability to just go

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Speaker 1: out there and play like he did earlier this season

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Speaker 1: with Minnesota for that month leading up to the trade

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Speaker 1: where they used Kylie Anderson to initiate sets, they use

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Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards to be able to initiate sets from time

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Speaker 1: to time. He was just able to go out there

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Speaker 1: and play and go and it was the best stretch

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Speaker 1: of his career that we've seen since he played with Brooklyn, which, oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, in Brooklyn he played with Spencer Dinwiddie,

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Speaker 1: another guy that could share the load from a creativity perspective.

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Speaker 1: So when I look at what de Angelo Russell is

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Speaker 1: going to look like with Lebron James, who will be

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Speaker 1: able to handle that distribution load in a really tangible way.

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Speaker 1: I think DeAngelo is gonna be able to go out

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Speaker 1: there and play and it's gonna look really really good. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Him off ball is where I've been most impressed with

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Speaker 1: him with the Lakers. He's got a lightning quick release

392
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Speaker 1: on the catch and he doesn't have to jump very high.

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Speaker 1: There was a specific play I want to say it

394
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Speaker 1: was against the Rafters where Austin they ran like a

395
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Speaker 1: quick interchange with Austin Reeves coming off of a ball

396
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Speaker 1: screen with Anthony Davis, and he made a little pitch

397
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Speaker 1: and Ogna Nobi made an excellent close out, but Dilo

398
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Speaker 1: just caught it and just fluidly just went right up

399
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Speaker 1: into a shot without even getting much of a jump,

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Speaker 1: and he knocked it down. And Like, one of the

401
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Speaker 1: big reasons why I'm enthusiastic about this particular fit is this,

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Speaker 1: they do not need MVP two way Lebron Like, Yeah,

403
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: like they don't. They Their pick and roll shot creation

404
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: has actually been kind of excellent. I mean, I got

405
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Speaker 1: in to a friendly discussion with Sam the other day

406
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Speaker 1: because I was trying to tell him that I think

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Speaker 1: Austin Reeves is just as good as Bogdan mcdonovitch. And

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Speaker 1: then h that he had like a pretty big like, yeah,

409
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Speaker 1: he might be better right now. He might be, but

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Speaker 1: like he, I like, they're they're weirdly deep. Um like

411
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: Troy Brown Junior is an interesting kind of perimeter defensive

412
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Speaker 1: weapon that will slot back to the bench when Lebron

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Speaker 1: James comes back. And I mean, obviously the center positions

414
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Speaker 1: a little bit of an issue. They're looking at it

415
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Speaker 1: right now, where Lebron's gonna have to have to be

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Speaker 1: their backup center in the playoffs. I don't necessarily think

417
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Speaker 1: that's an issue. It's just a lot to ask from Lebron.

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Speaker 1: But in turn, they don't need him to run twenty

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Speaker 1: pick and rolls a game and to post up twenty

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Speaker 1: times a game. He can actually kind of functionally fit

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Speaker 1: into this as a cog because of how many good

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Speaker 1: pick and roll ball handlers they have. And I think

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Speaker 1: Lebron in his career, I think a lot of times

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Speaker 1: people look at him as a heliocentric guy. And don't,

425
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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, he can play that style. But

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Speaker 1: I think Lebron's a lot more of a plug and

427
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Speaker 1: play player than people give him credit for. I think

428
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Speaker 1: that he knows how to move without the basketball. He

429
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Speaker 1: can be a guy who can screen and roll to

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Speaker 1: the basket. Like there was a random game last ye

431
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: where he just gave Stanley Johnson the ball and was like, here,

432
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: I'll be the screen setter. You run our offense down

433
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: the stretch, and it like works, and they beat Gobert

434
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: and the Jazz. Like Lebron is actually sneaky, kind of

435
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 1: super versatile and can plug in all these holes. And

436
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: when I think about the weaknesses in the team that

437
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: I've watched play since the deadline, almost all of them

438
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: are fixed by Lebron. A guy who can beat good

439
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: perimeter defensive teams by drawing double teams in the post. Okay,

440
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: that's Lebron. A guy that can help with contested rebound

441
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 1: situations and give you basically a better option at the

442
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 1: power forward spot in offensive situations where Vanderbilt's not working

443
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: maybe at the end of a game. That's kind of

444
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: your guy. Like, I think he fits so many specific weaknesses.

445
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 1: And again in a Western conference where no one looks great,

446
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: I think that they make sense as like a threat

447
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: to me, but obviously so much is up in the air,

448
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 1: and I mean the Nuggets. I do think that it's

449
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: a bit of an excuse to just blame everything on

450
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: a lack of urgency, but at the same time, like

451
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: that's certainly part of it. You know, Like look, playing

452
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: drop coverage right now, which is not what they will

453
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: do in the playoffs, Like I can almost guarantee that,

454
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: and it feels like they're doing it to keep Nicola

455
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: Yokis fresh to me as much as anything, because you know,

456
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: having to go out play flat play at the level

457
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: of the screen every single time and then recover back

458
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: to your man it does take a toll. It takes

459
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: a toll on your body on a somewhat real level,

460
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: having to do it night after night, possession after possession.

461
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: Drop coverage is a little bit more stationary, which I

462
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: think does help Yokich. But at the end of the day,

463
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if I trust them in either defensive structure.

464
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 1: So that's a real problem with the Like honestly, like

465
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: I would pick the Lakers if they have a healthy

466
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: Lebron in a series against the Nuggets, because I think

467
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: that they cause a lot of problems with their defensive

468
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: ability against the Nuggets. You can throw Anthony Davis onto

469
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: Nicola Yokich and then what it's Aaron Gordon on Lebron,

470
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: and I think that that's just not going to go

471
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: all that well for Aaron Gordon. Because Aaron Gordon, as

472
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,959
Speaker 1: good as he is and as close to being an

473
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: All Stars he was, I think that he's a little

474
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: bit better having being able to help help Yokich whenever

475
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: he's in those tough defensive matchups against Anthony Davis. He's

476
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: a good on ball defender, he's a better help defender

477
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: in my opinion. Yeah, looking at this Lakers roster, their

478
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: best five is what a very real Austin reeves. It

479
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: seems like who looks awesome right now, looks confident. I've

480
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: never seen that dude get flustered in his life is

481
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: probably DeAngelo, Russell, Lebron, James Anthony Davis. And then when

482
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: you have those four, you can kind of put out

483
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: anyone at that point, right, You can put out Ruey

484
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: If you want some like physicality and shop making, you

485
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: can put out Jared Vanderbilt. If you want point of

486
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: attack and rebounding, you can put out Malik Beasley. If

487
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: you want even more floor spacing to attack, right, I

488
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: don't know, I think this is all some Troy Brown

489
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: Junior there too, like as he's definitely got Coach Ham's trust,

490
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: and he's kind of, to me like the bridge between

491
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: Jared and Ruey where he's got some of that point

492
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: it's point of attack capability that Jared Vanderbilt has, but

493
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: has that like Troy's like Legit on the wings a

494
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: pretty reliable three point shooter over the course the last

495
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: couple of months too, So I think you'll see some

496
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: stuff there. Um, we're gonna move on to MVP, but

497
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: it sounds to me like your lists is Bucks, Celtics, Sixers, Calves, Nuggets, Sons, Warriors, Lakers,

498
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: So you're basically swapping out the Clippers for the Calves.

499
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: It seems to me, is your list that's kind of it. Yeah, yeah,

500
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: spread on, We're pretty close. I like that, all right,

501
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: So I think we would have it ordered differently, Like

502
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: I think I would have the Sons that like number

503
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 1: number three or four right now. But yeah, I'm terrified

504
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: of the sun Sam, so I think they need to

505
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: lose early. The later they get into the playoffs, the

506
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 1: more I'm gonna be freaked out by their continuity. And

507
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: I can pretty safely tell you right now that I'm

508
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: probably going to pick them as my preseason title favorite

509
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: next year. I'm terrified of them. I'm terrified a KD.

510
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: I think Devin Booker is just like taller, more dependable

511
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving, you know, like Chris Paul is the one

512
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: kind of weird piece, and we'll see how he fits

513
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: in all of that. DeAndre Eaton has no choice but

514
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: to buy back in just because of the stakes of

515
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: it all. And then this summer they're going to be

516
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: able to boost all of that perimeter defense weakness that

517
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: they have. So what I would like to do for

518
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: this MVP piece is I'd like to quickly just rip

519
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: off some stats, just some basic surface level stuff, but

520
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 1: I doubt will spend too much time there, just because

521
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: I think you and i'd both like to discuss it

522
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: more from a basketball perspective, which is a big part

523
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: of why I wanted to have this conversation with you,

524
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: and I do want to hear like your reasoning in

525
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: the way that you go about this. So in games played,

526
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: Yoka is in first place sixty four and bad fifty eight,

527
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: yanis fifty six. But in the games that yokis played

528
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: forty five and nineteen, that's a seventy percent win percentage

529
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: and Bad thirty nine and nineteen. That's a sixty seven

530
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: percent win percentage, forty two and fourteen a seventy five

531
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: percent win percentage, points per game and Bad thirty four

532
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: Yannis thirty one, Yokas twenty five rebounds. Yannis and Yokas

533
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: tied at twelve and Bead with ten assists, Yokis with ten,

534
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: Yannis with six, although he's been getting a lot more

535
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: assists lately. In Bad four point one efficiency, Yokis seventy

536
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: percent true shooting and Bad sixty five percent true shooting,

537
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: Yannis sixty percent true shooting. On off stats, the Nuggets

538
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: are twenty seven points better with Yokis then without him,

539
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: and Bad ten points Yannis seven points. One wrinkle there though,

540
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: the Nuggets starters have only played two additional games together

541
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: compared to that Jannis lineup, but they've played one hundred

542
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: and forty more minutes together, or to excuse me, that's

543
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: compared to the embiad lineup. So what that tells me

544
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: is they're just keep They're not staggering nearly as much.

545
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: They're keeping their starters together. Yea. So like, let me

546
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: also add to that, the Nuggets backup center position. This

547
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: year has been a revolving door of train wreck. I

548
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: guess this is the best way to put it. And

549
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: but I thought the Lakers made a huge mistake giving

550
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: up Thomas Bryant. What was everybody thinking? I think the

551
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: Nuggets made a huge mistake, you know, giving up three

552
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: second rounders to acquire Thomas Bryant instead of getting better

553
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: defensive wing help. So yeah, no, I just want to

554
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: note for the record that the DeAndre Jordan Bones Highland

555
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: pick and roll defensive combination was a train wreck. Zeke

556
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: Naji is not ready for this, and Thomas Bryant has

557
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: not been good enough well, And Thomas Bryant's interesting. He's

558
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: so hot and cold. There are days where he has

559
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: it going offensively and he's great. It's just it's just

560
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: too inconsistent. So what I'd like to do, because there's

561
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of different elements we can get into, but

562
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: what I'd like to start with is just what you're like,

563
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: if if you were like, if you had an MVP

564
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: vote you had to turn it in a week from today,

565
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: what would your process look like. So my process is

566
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: a little bit simpler than what I think other people's

567
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: is you know, some people look at it who is

568
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: the most valuable player to their team? Who is the

569
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: guy bringing you know, if you took this guy off

570
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: the team, what would that look like. I kind of

571
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: look at it is who is the best player in

572
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: the league that I try to keep it as simple

573
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: as possible. Who do I think is providing the most

574
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: value to their team in the NBA. That's a different

575
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: version of value than what I think other voters look

576
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: at it. And I don't really have a problem with

577
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: other voters looking at it in terms of like, oh,

578
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: like if you take this person off the team, X, Y,

579
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: and Z happens, right. I just look at it as

580
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: who is bringing the most value to a basketball court

581
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: night in, night out, every single game. That is such

582
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: a simplistic process I would imagine in comparison to what

583
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: many other voters have. And I'm not a voter, so

584
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say any other voters what voters across the

585
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: league seem to have like pretzeled themselves into. It feels

586
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: like when I talk to people about this, just I

587
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: don't know, and like, here's the question I would ask you,

588
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: do you consider the idea of the regular season and

589
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: the playoffs being different, they are different beasts in terms

590
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: of the way basketball's played in those moments. Are you

591
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: purely someone that looks at this from a twenty twenty

592
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: two twenty twenty three season that's all that matters, point blank?

593
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: Or do you consider the fact that we've seen these

594
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: guys playing in the biggest moments before. This is something

595
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: that matters, Like this is an input that matters in

596
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: these conversations about who the best dude in the league is.

597
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: So I love your approach because to me, simplicity opens

598
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: the door for discretion, and to me, the game of

599
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: basketball is way too complicated. And we get into this

600
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: in a little bit with the dance metrics, but it's

601
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: way too complicated for any measure, for any stat for

602
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: even just wins losses, Like we could talk about supporting casts,

603
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 1: we could talk about all these different things, but at

604
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: the end of the day, they are so all three

605
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: of the guys that I considered here, they're in the

606
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: top tier, which I'm sure you have the same top three,

607
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: which is yannest Yo Kitchen embied. All three of these

608
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: guys have completely different ways that they impact basketball games

609
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: like it could not be any further from each other

610
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: even though they play similar positions, And so from that standpoint,

611
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: I think that keeping it vague allows you to kind

612
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: of approach the conversation from a bunch of different perspectives.

613
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: And as far as the playoffs, like, I think you

614
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: have to factor that into a certain extent. And I

615
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: understand the idea of, um, you know, it being a

616
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: regular season award, and I appreciate that, and when I

617
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: go over my system it will make some sense to

618
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: you where I know, I know, But like, here's the thing,

619
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: why do we do this, Sam, Why do we play

620
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: the eighty two games? We do it as part of

621
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: a journey that ends in the Larry O'Brien Trophy. You

622
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: can pretend like that doesn't matter, but it does. And yes,

623
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: it is like two different seasons. Yes it's the eighty

624
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: two and then we head into this two month playoff

625
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: thing and the basketball gets very different. And I absolutely

626
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: understand all of that, but at the end of the day,

627
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: it's all the same journey from training camp to the

628
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: Larry O'Brien Trophy, and so not factoring in the fact

629
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: that playoff success or at least the way that your

630
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: game translates to the postseason, as if that doesn't matter

631
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: at all in this discussion, I think is silly. And

632
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: so the way I account for that is I have

633
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: your criteria as one of three parts. So I have

634
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: who's the best player in the league as one of

635
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: the three parts. Then I have who is the best

636
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: player on the best team. This is where we bring

637
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: in team success with him this regular season. And then

638
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: the third faction of this is who is most valuable

639
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: to their team. That's where I'm looking at, like the

640
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: way that team operates, and when you remove that player

641
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: from the equation, the way things change. And so for

642
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: me like it if I were to ask you to

643
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: rank those three as who is the best basketball player?

644
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: How would you rank them? Ye? Honest? One, Mbat two,

645
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: Yokas three. I had the exact same list, and I

646
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: had to flip and beat and Yoki's just over these

647
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: last couple of months. I just the run that Embat

648
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: has been on, as he's been a better basketball player

649
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: than Yokis now for a little while, and there's no

650
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: playoff leeway to throw Yokich to be like he deserves

651
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt, which I'm usually a big

652
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: fan of, but I viewed their playoffs resumes is pretty similar. Like,

653
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: I think they've each won four series if I remember correctly,

654
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: so neither of them has this earth shattering playoff resume.

655
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: So to me, that's a pretty straightforward list. Who would

656
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: you say is the best player on the best team

657
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: in the league. I think it would be Yannis Embiid

658
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: and Yokis at this point, just give him the records. Yeah,

659
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: so I put Janis one Yokis too, based on that

660
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: win percentage piece, Like Embiad's only one sixty seven percent

661
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: of the games he's played in, and I think he

662
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: actually has a better I actually think he has a

663
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: better supporting cast. Let's do that next. Actually, who do

664
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: you think has the best supporting cast out of that group?

665
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: If you were ranking them, I would say Embiad has

666
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: the best supporting cast. You're playing with James Harden, and

667
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: then you have a loaded deep team with Tobias Harris

668
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: who's had a really underrated season this year. You have

669
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: Tyre Smaxe who's average any points a game. I think

670
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: it's like unequivocally Joel Embiid as the best. And then

671
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: I think you can parse between the Bucks and the

672
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: Nuggets I would say that the Nuggets have probably had

673
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: a better supporting cast around Yokich this season, just given

674
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: that Chris Middleton has missed a lot of time has

675
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: been coming back from injury. Now, Brook Lopez and Drew

676
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: Holiday have been probably better than anybody on the Nuggets,

677
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: right I think. So, I don't know, Maybe it is

678
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: Yokich at three in this conversation the more I think

679
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: about it, but Yokich has the four guys around him

680
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: that are absolutely terrific. I would say that Jannis has

681
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 1: had two guys that have just been like, absolutely terrific.

682
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: I'd like, if I was ranking the eight players that

683
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: have started the most games with Jannis and with Yokich,

684
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: I would have Drew Holiday and Brook Lopez one and two.

685
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: I would have the Nuggets guys in the next four spots,

686
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: and then I would have the Bucks guys in the

687
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: last two spots. How do you parse through that? I

688
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: think that you can and make different determinations. That's what's

689
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: so interesting, because so I had Bucks one and Sixers two.

690
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: Although I agree like the Sixers offensive talent is like

691
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: through the roofs? Did you know that they're they're the

692
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: best spot up team? In the league. They constantly have

693
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: shake Shake Miltoner Georgis Niang on that weak side wing

694
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: as just this deadly like if they if you help

695
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: off that guy, it's going in. And they're like killing

696
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: teams in fourth quarters loading up on those Harden and

697
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 1: Bead actions by those kickouts to those weak side wing

698
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: wing shooters. They they have a boatload of talent. One.

699
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: I actually, up until the Phoenix Suns trade, I thought

700
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: that uh Maxi, Harris and Bead Harden was the most

701
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: talented top four in the league up up until now

702
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: you have the Chris Paul Booker at eight and Kevin

703
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: Durant lineup um. But I would say it's close between

704
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: those two between the Bucks and Sixers. To me, with

705
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: the Bucks, it's pretty simple one of the best point

706
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: of attack defenders in the league and the best ring

707
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: protector in the league. So like, the two of those

708
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: guys together just kind of foundationally allow them to win

709
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: a lot about I think that's why they've been a

710
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: functional basketball team without Janis for most of the season.

711
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: And I have the Nuggets third. But you you said

712
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: this perfectly, and I'm so glad you did because it's

713
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: so underrated yes, there are players that in their starting

714
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: lineup that don't necessarily have the same level of recognition

715
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: around the league, but you could not construct a better

716
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: lineup of players to compliment Nicola. Yokis your power forward.

717
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: Aaron Gordon is the type of player that in the

718
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: vacuum is not super valuable, but what he does as

719
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: a forward deck can kind of operate as a center

720
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways offensively in terms of what

721
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: he can do in the dunker spot to quit, catch

722
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: and finish around the rim as a lob threat while

723
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: still being a transition threat and a guy that can

724
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: occasionally knock down a shot. Contavious called well Pope, I

725
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: think is literally one of the best role player two

726
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: guards in the league, and I'm still sad that he's

727
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: not on the Lakers, and he's so perfect. He's so

728
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: perfect with Yokis because of what he can do transition

729
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: and Yoki is an outlet passer, and I think kcp's

730
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: one of the best transition guards in the league as

731
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: a movement shooter and a guy that can finish in

732
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: transition with those long steps that he takes to the basket.

733
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: Jamal Murray is slumping a little bit right now. But

734
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: he is your textbook dribble handoff ball screen guard that

735
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: perfectly compliments Yokich and Michael Porter Junior is arguably the

736
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: most deadly weak side shooter in the league. A last

737
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: I checked, which was like a two or three weeks ago,

738
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: he was averaging one point three points per spot up

739
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: possession and him and like, so yeah, it's not necessarily

740
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: in terms of ranking players around the league the most

741
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: talented core ever, but it is a group of players

742
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: that very well compliments what Yokich does. And yes, there

743
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: bench sucks, but so does Phillies and so like it's so,

744
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's one of those things where I don't

745
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: look at I don't really see supporting cast as much

746
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: of a factor in this equation for either of the

747
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: three guys. I agree with you, I will say as well,

748
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: to bring up your point about the Bucks, I think

749
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: with Chris Middleton, the way he's playing, I think over

750
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: his last fifteen games has averaged something like seventeen eighteen points,

751
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: six assists, five rebounds. I think he shoot being like

752
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: forty eight thirty seven eighty seven or something like that.

753
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: He's basically back to being pretty close. He's been a

754
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: little bit more of a facilitator than what we've seen

755
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: from him in the past. But he's basically back to

756
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: being pretty close to what we've seen from Chris Middleton previously,

757
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: and I think that that just elevates the Bucks even

758
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: further within their task conversation, they're ridiculously good. That is

759
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: the best top four in the league outside of maybe

760
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: Phoenix when we see them more. I think Janis Middleton,

761
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: Brook Lopez, Drew Holliday, that's the best four in the league,

762
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: depending on what Phoenix looks like. But Middleton has played

763
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: you know what, fifteen games fully healthy this year, so

764
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: I think I think the Middleton thing has been part

765
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: of why I haven't considered those four. But that's a

766
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: really interesting case, especially when you factor in two way

767
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: play because Tyree Saxin, James Harden or not good defensive guards.

768
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: Chris Paul is not a good defensive guard anymore. He's

769
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: actually become a target. Deandreton is one of my least

770
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: favorite defensive centers in the league. So we're running a

771
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: little bit out of time. So I want you to

772
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: I want you to make the case for who you

773
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: chose FRIMVP and why I went with the honest and

774
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: I think that the I think that as we've gone

775
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: through this process, right, as we've explained all of the

776
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: different criteria, that I think you've had me answer questions

777
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: regarding who is the best player, who is the best

778
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: player on the best team, who is the most valuable player,

779
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: I think across the board, outside of maybe value to team,

780
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: I think it's Jannis. And I know that his efficiency

781
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: numbers are not quite as good as what Nicola Yokichs are,

782
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: and I guess we didn't really have time to have

783
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: the metrics conversation. But if you look at what he

784
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: was tasked with doing throughout the year as a shot creator,

785
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: given the roster that was around him, Brook Lopez as

786
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: not really a shot creator, more of a spot up

787
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: three point thread at this point in his career, can

788
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: offensive rebound, can do some things on the block, more

789
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: of just a spot up guy at this point. Drew

790
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: Holliday inconsistent as a creator for a point guard. I

791
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: think is reasonable to say there are games where he

792
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: is hot and he is just very almost impossible to

793
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: stop when he has the three point shot going. He

794
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: takes so many tough shots. Why does he take so

795
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: many difficult shots. I don't understand. Every shot for him

796
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: is like a drifting fadeaway. Yeah, it really is. So

797
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: Jannis is tasked with a more difficult responsibility, I think

798
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: within the ecosystem of Milwaukee's offense throughout a majority of

799
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: the season. Now that Middleton is back, now that Joe

800
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: Ingles is actually firing in like a fairly real way,

801
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: he has really helped. They're passing their playmaking their ball

802
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: movement across the perimeter. Middleton has also really helped that,

803
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: and he's also given them a bailout option as a

804
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: mid rain shot creator late in the shot clock they

805
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: really needed. But for a majority of the season, Jannis

806
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: did not have that, which is why the efficiency numbers

807
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: are a little bit lower for him than they are

808
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: for other players in this conversation, I think that when

809
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: you combine the fact that Jannis is the most dominant

810
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: player in the league just in terms of being able

811
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: to create his own shot, going to the basket and

812
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: finishing at just such an elite level he can do

813
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: it anytime, any point. He's averaging what you mentioned, thirty

814
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: one points per game, something like twelve rebounds and six

815
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: assists in that Ballpark. The numbers are great. On top

816
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: of it, I do think he is the best defensive

817
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: player of this trio. I have Joel Embiad at number two.

818
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: I think Joel Embiid in Yannis are very much like

819
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: almost one A and one B. For me, I think

820
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: they're super close. I have Yoki at third. At this point,

821
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: when we did this conversation on my show at mid season,

822
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: we also did not have Yokich at number one. We

823
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: had Kevin Durant at midseason number one right man, Kevin Durant.

824
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Yeah, Kevin Durant was in the

825
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 1: midst of lead the Brooklyn Nets to like a twenty

826
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: eight and twelve record or whatever it was, and it

827
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: was unbelievable in those first games that he played. Was

828
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: well deserving. I went with Mbiad here. I think the

829
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: fact that Phillis defense is genuinely terrific this season. He

830
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: is probably the second most dominant shot creator in the

831
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: league behind Jannis, and I think you could make a

832
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: case that he is the most dominant scorer in the

833
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: league if you really wanted to the thing with the

834
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: honest is I trust Yannis as a pastor decision maker

835
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more. I like Yannis's defense a little

836
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: bit better. And again, as you said, Milwaukee is the

837
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: best team in the league. When Jannis and Teacupo plays,

838
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: that is it. That is it, point blank. I went

839
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: with the Honest's MVP seventy five percent of their games man,

840
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: so it was it was pretty basic for me. Best

841
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: player in the league, I went Jannis and bok best

842
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: player on the best team, I went Jannis, Yokich, Embiid

843
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: who is the most valuable to their team? I went Yokich, Inmbi, Jannis,

844
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: And if you kind of break those down, where place

845
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: is worth three points, second is worth two, third is

846
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: worth one. I had seven points for Yannis, Yoki with six,

847
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: and Embad with five, And you know, I try to

848
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: stick to that criteria as best as I can. And

849
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: it's funny, is I came into this process when I

850
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: sat down with my coffee this morning, I was like,

851
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: I expect to pick him Bead. I really did think that, Yeah,

852
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: he's I've been so high on him. And and when

853
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: I break it down based on the rules that I

854
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: try to go by, I had Yannis one, Yokich two,

855
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: and inb three. So I think the one place we

856
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: agree disagrees we flopped Yokichen Embiid, but I think all

857
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: three are still incredibly close, and it is it has

858
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: been a highly entertaining race, so we do have to go.

859
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Sam, I really want to get into

860
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: this advanced metrics conversation with you. The problem is is

861
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: I know us and we'll spend twenty minutes on it.

862
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: So what we need to do is we need to

863
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: We'll either we'll either do it at a later date

864
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: this season or we'll hit it this offseason because it's

865
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: definitely something that I want to spend some time talking about.

866
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: But I am I have so much fun talking basketball

867
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: with you. I'm so thankful that you took the time

868
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: to come on the show today, and I look forward

869
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: to talking with you again soon anytime. You are one

870
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: of the people that pushes me to be better at

871
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: this with how detail oriented you are, and I am

872
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: always happy to talk basketball with you. This has been

873
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: terrific anytime, I'm more than happy to come on. Do

874
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: you need to plug anything? Game three podcasts, Go listen

875
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: to the podcast that I have. Jason was on a

876
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: week ago. We talked about rising stars across the NBA

877
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: guys that we think are going to be All Stars

878
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: go to the Athletic as well. Yeah, just go subscribe

879
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: to that. We'll be able to find my work. The

880
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: volume