WEBVTT - Living Beyond Soccer with Ashlyn Harris 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.560 This show was independently created by iHeartMedia. Novartist Pharmaceuticals Corp. 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:08.400 Is the exclusive advertising partner. It is intended for informational 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.879 and educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.640 Please speak with your healthcare professional before making any treatment decisions. 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:18.920 Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're taking 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.320 you beyond the goalie box. It's Wednesday, June eleventh, and 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.119 on today's show, we'll be skipping the need to know 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.960 and getting right into the first installment of our new series, 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:31.480 Life Beyond Living Beyond Labels, a powerful podcast campaign brought 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:33.080 to you by Iheartwomen's Sports. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:34.640 Our Life Beyond. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.120 Series will showcase the extraordinary resilience and strength of successful 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:42.120 women diving deep into their lives, highlighting their personal journeys, passions, 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.600 and the ways in which they're living beyond the labels 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.320 they've been given by others. Our first guest is World 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.040 Cup champion soccer player, activist and fellow iHeart podcast host 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.360 Ashlyn Harris. She joins me to talk about finding identity 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.120 and strength beyond the soccer which at motherhood, mental health, 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.960 facing criticism, and the work require to heal from the 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:02.080 pressure of performance. 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.119 My conversation with Ashland is coming up right after this. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:14.080 Joining US now. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.080 She's a former longtime US women's national team player and 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.759 two time World Cup winner. She played for a long 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.759 list of pro clubs, including the Washington Spirit, Orlando Pride, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:24.840 and gothamme FC of the NWSL, and was a two 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.760 time Goalkeeper of the Year twenty eleven in the WPS 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.679 and twenty sixteen in the NWSL. She played her college 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:32.880 soccer for the UNC tar Heels and helped the team 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:37.320 win three NCAA championships. Mom of two, her tats are many, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.959 her fits are legendary. It's Florida woman, Ashland Harris. What's up, Ashley? 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:43.520 What an intro? 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.319 Are you willing to claim Florida right now? 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.640 I'm not willing to claim anything in this country. 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:54.160 I'm like, I'm booked and busy, Like just I want to. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.360 Take a snooze for four years and wake back up 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.160 and say this shit is gone. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.640 It was a bad dream, right, you know what? 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.280 I think It's a bad sign that yesterday I told 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.600 someone I wanted to fake a coma for a week 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:06.640 so that everyone. 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:07.320 Would leave me alone. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:07.560 Right. 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:09.280 It was like, but I'm not going to sleep. 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.040 I'm going to get stuff done so that when it 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.320 come out of the goma, I feel prepared for all 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:14.960 the emails and frond culsters. 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:16.000 And ready to snooze. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.959 It was just put me out, put us both to sleep, 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:19.959 put me to sleep. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.760 Just a tranquilizer dart to the neck. What was that? 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.600 Was at an old school? That was well? 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.280 Thank you for joining us to talk about life beyond soccer, 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.520 beyond the goalie box, beyond the usual things that come 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:33.720 up in sports interviews. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:35.320 I want to actually start at the beginning though. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.519 One why you ended up in the goaliebox, Because I've 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.040 listened to interviews and you described yourself as a liability 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.720 on the field. Oh, you were an angry kid playing 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.560 with boys, slide tackling everyone, and you ended up essentially 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.280 getting banished to the box so that you could do 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.280 less damage. Why were you so angry? Why did the 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.480 field become a place for you to get that out? 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.440 I wouldn't say that I was angry, Like, I played 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.760 with boys growing up, so it's not really like a 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:07.679 competitive women's girls team where I lived. Because I grew 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.120 up on a small beach town in Cocoa Beach, Florida. 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.720 And I was born in Cape Canaveral and everyone surfed 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:20.160 and skated, so everything I did was around guys and 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:20.560 my brother. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:22.880 I had an older brother and that was my only sibling. 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.200 So for me to hang out with my brother, I 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.840 had to be good enough at everything because I didn't 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.359 want to get picked last. And I became such an 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.520 asset because I was such a competitor, and I would 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:39.320 do I just played dirty because sometimes like facts are facts, 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:43.080 like when the guys got bigger and faster and stronger, 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.880 like I had to find a different way. So with soccer, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.840 because I played baseball with my brother, I played basketball, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.400 I did it all football. But with soccer, you know, 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.760 the guys, just as I got older, were a little 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.000 bit faster than I was. So I did a lot 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.960 of things like leaving my feet and two I would 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:06.160 two foot tackle people often. And but you know, back 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.080 in the day when we were young and it was 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.520 like raining and wet, which is Florida every single day, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.280 all it turned into was a slide tackling mess and 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.800 there wasn't really like soccer used to be way more 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.479 dirty than it is today. So yeah, I would like 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.840 take people's legs out, like I just and my coach 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.799 was like, every game, we're getting so many yellow cards 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.880 and red cards because if you don't get the ball, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.400 like you could really hurt someone. So he was like, 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.479 I got a good idea for you, Like let's put 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.080 you in goal and you can be on. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:42.159 Your feet all you want. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.440 You can get away with tackling and hitting people and 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.760 not making it a liability for the team. And then 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.360 I got in goal and I was just hammering people 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.520 and I. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:57.560 Loved it, you know, I think I've I've also heard 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.520 you talk about childhood just being a struggle at times, 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.040 how things for your family were tough, and so sport 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.839 was sort of an escape or a way to help 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.719 or a way to get out. Did you put pressure 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.480 on yourself in that way. Did it become something where 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.599 you thought, I need to be great at this because 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:19.000 it's necessary, or did you always have a natural drive. 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:19.440 To be great. 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:25.760 I think you talk about like community and family and safety. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.279 I think in sports I just could be me and 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.640 I didn't quite understand that as a kid, but as 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.480 I'm older, I wanted to play and do everything that 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.760 was organized sports. And I think for me in a 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.880 house that felt very unsafe for me as a kid, 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.919 I was like, oh, like, sport gives me community, it 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.240 gives me safety, it gives me an active way to 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.919 get off the streets. Because I was doing drugs in 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.800 sixth grade. I was you know, I started smoking in 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:03.160 sixth grade, learning about drugs, you know, stealing cigarettes at 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.760 the local like Cumberland Farms. And it was just the 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.080 people I was hanging out with. I was absolutely an 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.839 average of the friendship group I chose at the time. 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.400 And yeah, I don't know, there was something about sport 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.360 that made me feel a sense of belonging that I 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.279 may not have felt otherwise. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.080 And you know, I moved differently in. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.880 School at a very early age, and my parents worked 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.560 two jobs, and they, you know, they had a lot 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.839 going on within you know, their their own lives. 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.880 That is hard. You know now as a mom, I 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:40.400 get it. 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.559 Because I have access to the things my parents could 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.880 never So they were trying to live and figure out 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:51.080 in real time how to provide and it just it 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.479 was a lot on them, which becomes a lot on 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.200 a household. And yeah, I guess for me to just 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.160 go back to the question without making it the story 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.159 insanely long, is when I was thirteen, I started getting 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.440 college letters, and I'm talking handwritten letters from like Harvard 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.760 and places like I didn't kind of laughable a little 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.200 bit as a kid who couldn't pass a standardized test 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.560 and you know, early development child education because it never 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:22.280 was a priority in my household. 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.440 But I was like, Oh, I can get a free education. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.440 Oh I can get out of here, and they can 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.920 pay for all these things. And I think that became 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.880 the reason why I chose soccer and the reason why 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:40.160 I realized that was going to be my ticket out 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:45.920 to greatness. And I just put all my cards into 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.840 that right to that bucket and I went for it. 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:50.920 And it was well, it's an escape in the future, 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.360 and it's a community in the present. Yep. You said 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.560 you needed to feel safe somewhere. Why did your house 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:57.320 feel unsafe? 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.880 Well, I just think that my family was going through 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.600 really hard time. My dad went he had a really 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.520 really bad accident that put him in the hospital for 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.760 a long time, and he couldn't work and he couldn't 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.160 do the things that he was used to doing, and 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.480 it put a strain on my family's relationship. My mom 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:21.040 was dealing with mental health problems and depression, and you know, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:26.119 financial problems that made it unbearable. So you know, things 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:32.040 started getting introduced, more drugs, more alcohol, more fragmented. Like 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:36.560 there's just a ton of loneliness in the house. And 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:42.320 I was so resentful because of it for so long 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.040 until I became a mom and realized how hard it is, 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.600 how hard it is to provide, how expensive it is, 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.760 how mental health is a real thing, how you know, 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.440 health insurance and things like that to get the right 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:02.199 medication to you know, make sure everyone was functioning at 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.000 the best as their best self. Like they didn't My 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:06.920 parents didn't have access to that, right. 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.880 There wasn't the stigmas back then too of actually dealing 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:10.320 with it. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.400 It was mostly people were ostracized for struggling. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.960 Yeah, exactly, or it was like, oh, she's crazy, let's 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.880 throw her into circles of care. And then I'm like okay, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.400 and then what and now what, like, how do we 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.240 handle this? How do like we just didn't have the 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.200 you know, access to therapy and to good doctors and 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.360 to the education piece. We all just tried to figure 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.840 it out and move forward as best we could, but 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.760 it just was so toxic. 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.600 That's a lot to deal with and you did find 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.400 this outlet in soccer, and your high school achievements are 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.439 beyond beyond, you know, Gatorade Player of the Year. It's 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.880 like multi time awards that most people don't win once, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:55.839 let alone multiple years in a row. Like you are 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.280 very clearly one of the best in the country. You're 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.360 getting calls from UNC early end up going to UNC, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.640 but you don't leave behind some of the things that 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.880 you struggled with at home. Right, you had addiction issues, 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.360 and I've heard you say the same sort of story 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.800 about colleges. You are the person you know sort of 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.679 that you surround yourself with, and so you found similar 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.720 circles that UNC, and ultimately your coach had to sort 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.160 of help you realize that your path could be better 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:25.480 going forward if you found a way out. 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:25.760 Right. 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.600 Yeah, he gave me a book man Searches for Meaning, 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:35.520 and he would take time every week to sit with 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:42.800 me and explain to me the values of real connection, community, character, 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.480 and my goalkeeper coach would show up with me and 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.760 I was quite embarrassing at the beginning to all my. 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:53.120 Classes, but your coach would go with you to class. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.720 Yeah, Chris Ducar would show up with We call him 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.920 Big Bird, my goalkeeper coach. He would show up to 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.280 all my classes because like to make sure, not to 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.040 make sure I went, but probably just so I felt supported. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.440 And like, it's interesting, right, Anson is a believer in 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.640 built Dorance your coach at Yeah, he's a believer. And 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.840 you invest just as much as your physical ability as 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.000 an athlete, but you have to really focus on being 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:27.320 a good person to really develop this level of character 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.360 you want to take with you the rest of your life, 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.520 whether soccer is your gateway or something else. And I 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.480 just was so lucky, and I had so much love 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.280 around me that I wasn't used to. I wasn't used 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.520 to people showing up that way, and they did that 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.679 for me, and lucky enough for me, I started and 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.800 I say this, lucky enough. It's it's very important for 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.560 me to phrase that. I got very injured, very quickly 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.439 when I went to Carolina. I blew out both of 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.120 my knees within the first year, one after another. And 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.760 I was in a really, really bad place because soccer 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.040 was supposed to be my ticket out. It was supposed 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:10.920 to get me off of food stamps, get me off 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.360 of government money. You know, I was supposed to help 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.640 my family, like I was the golden ticket and now 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.160 I was damaged good and like so many people invested 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:25.439 so much time, money, and energy into this dream of mine, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.319 and now what was I going to do? So I 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:34.120 dove heavily into this both and where I became a 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.000 normal student, which came with partying, which came with adderall addiction, 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.760 which came with depression and mental health issues. And then 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.240 I also focused so heavily on building who I was 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.200 outside of the game, and I almost was forced into 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.680 it by Anson, but it was so pivotal and instrumental 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:01.199 in developing who I was outside of what I did 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.720 that I was like, it was this both and terror 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.600 for me because I was working so hard on myself 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.040 and my body, but at the same time I was 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:14.280 trying to numb out. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:15.719 Because yeah, like damaging it. 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:20.079 Yeah yeah, So it was a really conflicted time for me, 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.079 but was so pivotal and who I am today. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.000 Well, and thank Goodness for him because that's such a 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:28.040 natural response. 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:29.839 So the book I just wrote, I ended up diving 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:34.280 into so many different outlets of research, reading other books 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:38.520 about generational trauma pathologies and why people end up the 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.439 way they are. Numbing self, you know, harm all the 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.000 other things. You know, the body keeps the score. I 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.640 can't recommend it enough to peoples. This incredible book about 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.000 understanding how our body is not separate from our brain. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.280 It doesn't like go a head up and then head 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.599 down and they operate differently. It's all very connected. So 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.600 your desire to heal some of the trauma from growing 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.439 up is at the same time damaging this prop that 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.360 you know is of importance to you and your family 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.760 and everything else. So you end up balancing it out, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.800 finding a way to have success, leading the team to 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.320 national titles. You end up becoming a US women's national 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.760 team player, having great success on the highest levels. But 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.160 because you learned who you were outside of soccer. When 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.400 you talk about life after soccer, you sound so very 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.040 different from other people who talk about the moment where 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.640 their identity as an athlete sort of ends and they 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.360 have to start anew. It doesn't feel like it's black 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.480 and white like that. For you, was soccer ever really 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.720 who you were after that point in college where you 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.520 recognize that you needed to find out what was past 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:44.800 being a goalkeeper. 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:50.480 That's a great question everyone. I'll even take it back 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.560 one step Sarah, because I do think this is important 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.160 and we're so quick to judge in this current world 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:02.120 and landscape. Soccer was sort of vibe for me, like 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.520 I had no option b if it didn't work. No 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.360 one was paying for my education, not one person at 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.520 the time, and my family even graduated from college, let 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.320 alone how to college education. Everyone always used to be like, God, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.000 you're just so hungry and you're so intense the way 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.440 you play, the way you move, but off the field, 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.000 like you're just this gentle, soft human that wants to 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.640 connect and wants to do good in the world. And 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.000 I have to be very clear because I think people 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.160 often misunderstood me in a lot of ways because they 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:44.840 couldn't understand my upbringing. They couldn't understand what survival mode 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.160 looks like. They couldn't understand getting in a lunch line 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:54.280 and trying to steal pieces of you know, fruit or 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.560 bars or more milk or you know. I had to 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.800 steal a lot as a kid for survival. So not 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.800 that I had to, I don't want to say that 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.880 I had to, but it was a means of survival. Yeah, 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.400 So I didn't wrap all my worth into the game. 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.120 I just knew it would be worth it in the 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.640 end to get me out of the experience. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.520 That I was like, yeah, And also, nothing heals like sport, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:27.400 So it's not just that intellectually you understand it's an outlet. Physically, 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.080 you are going somewhere where you're taking deep, gasping breaths 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.200 and tells your body that times of fight or flight 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.600 are over, that you're not in a traumatic situation. 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.960 You're able to run, stop, breathe. 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.800 Like, communicate with others, like in all these things that 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.000 are inherent to sport that we sort of take for 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:49.040 granted are in opposition to the traumatic moments at home. 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.600 And allow you those breaks that part. So I'll take 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.000 it a step further. I was so damn good at 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.800 my job because I was so comfortable and suffering because 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.160 I already knew it, you know what I mean, Like 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.359 the air is very thin at the top, and it 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:11.960 takes a very unique mindset to be that brainwashed to 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.680 want to choose and do it every single day. And 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.960 I felt so much comfort and ease and suffering because 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.760 I felt like it's all I ever knew that it 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.560 was weirdly my superpower. And I don't know if most 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.200 people can say that, and I think that is the 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.440 unlearning I am in now, in the phase that I'm in, 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.400 that I don't have to suffer to feel at home anymore. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.280 Like there's so much more beauty to life, and I 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:50.119 think being great I just was, you know, because I 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.320 say this all the time, Everyone's like, what was the secret? 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.320 And I was like, I just did the shit other 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.520 people weren't willing to do because I had. I felt 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:01.160 so much comfort and ease and pain and it was familiar. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:03.480 It was weirdly comforting. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.280 I mean, there's a million psychological reasons for that. You 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:08.800 could talk to a whole lot of people who do 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.960 things like ultra running or other sports where you sit 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.159 in the suffering and it actually feels like healing to 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.399 their brain because of the wiring from what came before. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:19.800 You know, I want to talk about what you said 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.160 about greatness. I've been listening to some former athletes talk 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:27.760 about greatness as a goal being inherently unhealthy, because the 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:32.480 pursuit of greatness as an achievement ultimately feels hollow once 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.920 you've gotten to where you thought was going to solve 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:35.600 all the problems. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.960 And you know, listening to Megan Rappino and Sue Bird and. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.879 Aby Wambach talk about it feels amazing standing on the podium, 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.920 It feels amazing that night celebrating, and the very next morning, 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.159 even as you try to continue the celebration, the predominant 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:52.399 feeling is I want to. 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.080 Do it again. Now I got to go do it again. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:55.480 Now I got to figure out how to do it again. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:01.159 So can you pursue greatness and have the process or 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.919 the journey be the thing that you're actually seeking as 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.000 opposed to the end results. Because your medals are in 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.040 a ziplock bag in your closet, clearly that's not what 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:11.399 you were actually going for. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.840 You don't see jerseys hanging up in my office, right, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.280 I see my kids. I think that's the greatest trophy 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:23.200 I won is being called the mom. So I don't know. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.440 I think we have We all have a different why, 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:32.720 I guess, and you know, I have a lot to 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.080 unpack and as I'm on this journey of self discovery 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:42.440 and actually choosing what I want because for a long 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.439 time a lot of things were out of my control, 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:49.359 it was not my choice. So like what, Well, you 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.399 don't choose your coach, you don't choose your teams, your circumstances, 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:55.080 or where you have to live, or how you have 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.919 to get on a plane, or your schedule. Every single day, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:02.920 I choose nothing. I was a machine. I was told 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.000 to get up to be here, then to do this. 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.320 This is like the playbook. This is how you stay. 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.200 You know, like it's it's a different. 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:14.879 Some people like that and feel a little lost when 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.679 they retire and have an open day in front of them. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.000 Did you like that ever at the time, like you said, 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.720 you're a machine and you were built for that, or 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:24.760 did you always feel like I'm willing to do this, 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.520 but I look forward to a time when I will 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:28.840 get my own choice. 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:29.600 Yeah. 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.760 I for me, I just never put so much weight 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.600 on what I did. I mean, they say the greatest 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.359 athletes of all time have short term memory, and I 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:44.639 just like I didn't overthink. I didn't you know, I 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.440 always knew that if I made one mistake, that made 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.120 me human, But what I did after that mistake would 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.400 decide the fate of that game. Did one mistake turn 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.000 into five? Did I dump it? 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:55.280 Like? 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.920 There's just so many things that just worked for me. 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.960 I was a little less emotional in terms of I 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.200 just knew. I wasn't crying cancer there. I was like, Okay, 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.320 we lose this game, Like damn, that sucks because I'm 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:13.920 a competitor and I want to win. But it's not 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.000 like what I do after the game and how I 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.680 show up for the people in the stands that paid 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.560 for that type of entertainment was more about who I 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.639 was than what my performance was for ninety minutes. Like 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:29.800 when I'm pissed off at the world and I want 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.720 to throw shit and walk into the locker room. A 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.760 hundred people are there paying, you know, more than a hundred, 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.760 but like this matters to them. This moment of interaction 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:43.879 is what they've been dreaming for and waiting for a 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:49.040 long time, and it's my responsibility and my privilege to 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.880 make that a priority. So for me, it was really 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.560 always it became about the people and the fans because 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.200