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Speaker 1: This show was independently created by iHeartMedia. Novartist Pharmaceuticals Corp.

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Speaker 1: Is the exclusive advertising partner. It is intended for informational

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Speaker 1: and educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice.

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Speaker 1: Please speak with your healthcare professional before making any treatment decisions.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're taking

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Speaker 1: you beyond the goalie box. It's Wednesday, June eleventh, and

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Speaker 1: on today's show, we'll be skipping the need to know

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Speaker 1: and getting right into the first installment of our new series,

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Speaker 1: Life Beyond Living Beyond Labels, a powerful podcast campaign brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Iheartwomen's Sports.

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Speaker 2: Our Life Beyond.

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Speaker 1: Series will showcase the extraordinary resilience and strength of successful

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Speaker 1: women diving deep into their lives, highlighting their personal journeys, passions,

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Speaker 1: and the ways in which they're living beyond the labels

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Speaker 1: they've been given by others. Our first guest is World

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Speaker 1: Cup champion soccer player, activist and fellow iHeart podcast host

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Speaker 1: Ashlyn Harris. She joins me to talk about finding identity

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Speaker 1: and strength beyond the soccer which at motherhood, mental health,

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Speaker 1: facing criticism, and the work require to heal from the

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Speaker 1: pressure of performance.

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Speaker 2: My conversation with Ashland is coming up right after this.

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Speaker 3: Joining US now.

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Speaker 1: She's a former longtime US women's national team player and

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Speaker 1: two time World Cup winner. She played for a long

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Speaker 1: list of pro clubs, including the Washington Spirit, Orlando Pride,

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Speaker 1: and gothamme FC of the NWSL, and was a two

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Speaker 1: time Goalkeeper of the Year twenty eleven in the WPS

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Speaker 1: and twenty sixteen in the NWSL. She played her college

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Speaker 1: soccer for the UNC tar Heels and helped the team

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Speaker 1: win three NCAA championships. Mom of two, her tats are many,

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Speaker 1: her fits are legendary. It's Florida woman, Ashland Harris. What's up, Ashley?

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Speaker 2: What an intro?

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Speaker 1: Are you willing to claim Florida right now?

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Speaker 3: I'm not willing to claim anything in this country.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm booked and busy, Like just I want to.

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Speaker 3: Take a snooze for four years and wake back up

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Speaker 3: and say this shit is gone.

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Speaker 2: It was a bad dream, right, you know what?

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Speaker 1: I think It's a bad sign that yesterday I told

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Speaker 1: someone I wanted to fake a coma for a week

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Speaker 1: so that everyone.

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Speaker 2: Would leave me alone.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: It was like, but I'm not going to sleep.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get stuff done so that when it

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Speaker 1: come out of the goma, I feel prepared for all

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Speaker 1: the emails and frond culsters.

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Speaker 2: And ready to snooze.

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Speaker 3: It was just put me out, put us both to sleep,

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Speaker 3: put me to sleep.

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Speaker 2: Just a tranquilizer dart to the neck. What was that?

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Speaker 2: Was at an old school? That was well?

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Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us to talk about life beyond soccer,

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Speaker 1: beyond the goalie box, beyond the usual things that come

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Speaker 1: up in sports interviews.

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Speaker 2: I want to actually start at the beginning though.

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Speaker 1: One why you ended up in the goaliebox, Because I've

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Speaker 1: listened to interviews and you described yourself as a liability

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Speaker 1: on the field. Oh, you were an angry kid playing

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Speaker 1: with boys, slide tackling everyone, and you ended up essentially

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Speaker 1: getting banished to the box so that you could do

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Speaker 1: less damage. Why were you so angry? Why did the

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Speaker 1: field become a place for you to get that out?

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say that I was angry, Like, I played

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Speaker 3: with boys growing up, so it's not really like a

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Speaker 3: competitive women's girls team where I lived. Because I grew

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Speaker 3: up on a small beach town in Cocoa Beach, Florida.

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Speaker 3: And I was born in Cape Canaveral and everyone surfed

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Speaker 3: and skated, so everything I did was around guys and

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Speaker 3: my brother.

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Speaker 2: I had an older brother and that was my only sibling.

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Speaker 3: So for me to hang out with my brother, I

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Speaker 3: had to be good enough at everything because I didn't

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Speaker 3: want to get picked last. And I became such an

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Speaker 3: asset because I was such a competitor, and I would

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Speaker 3: do I just played dirty because sometimes like facts are facts,

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Speaker 3: like when the guys got bigger and faster and stronger,

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Speaker 3: like I had to find a different way. So with soccer,

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Speaker 3: because I played baseball with my brother, I played basketball,

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Speaker 3: I did it all football. But with soccer, you know,

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Speaker 3: the guys, just as I got older, were a little

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Speaker 3: bit faster than I was. So I did a lot

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Speaker 3: of things like leaving my feet and two I would

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Speaker 3: two foot tackle people often. And but you know, back

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Speaker 3: in the day when we were young and it was

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Speaker 3: like raining and wet, which is Florida every single day,

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Speaker 3: all it turned into was a slide tackling mess and

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Speaker 3: there wasn't really like soccer used to be way more

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Speaker 3: dirty than it is today. So yeah, I would like

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Speaker 3: take people's legs out, like I just and my coach

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Speaker 3: was like, every game, we're getting so many yellow cards

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Speaker 3: and red cards because if you don't get the ball,

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Speaker 3: like you could really hurt someone. So he was like,

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Speaker 3: I got a good idea for you, Like let's put

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Speaker 3: you in goal and you can be on.

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Speaker 2: Your feet all you want.

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Speaker 3: You can get away with tackling and hitting people and

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Speaker 3: not making it a liability for the team. And then

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Speaker 3: I got in goal and I was just hammering people

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Speaker 3: and I.

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Speaker 1: Loved it, you know, I think I've I've also heard

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Speaker 1: you talk about childhood just being a struggle at times,

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Speaker 1: how things for your family were tough, and so sport

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Speaker 1: was sort of an escape or a way to help

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Speaker 1: or a way to get out. Did you put pressure

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Speaker 1: on yourself in that way. Did it become something where

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Speaker 1: you thought, I need to be great at this because

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Speaker 1: it's necessary, or did you always have a natural drive.

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Speaker 2: To be great.

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Speaker 3: I think you talk about like community and family and safety.

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Speaker 3: I think in sports I just could be me and

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Speaker 3: I didn't quite understand that as a kid, but as

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Speaker 3: I'm older, I wanted to play and do everything that

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Speaker 3: was organized sports. And I think for me in a

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Speaker 3: house that felt very unsafe for me as a kid,

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, like, sport gives me community, it

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Speaker 3: gives me safety, it gives me an active way to

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Speaker 3: get off the streets. Because I was doing drugs in

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Speaker 3: sixth grade. I was you know, I started smoking in

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Speaker 3: sixth grade, learning about drugs, you know, stealing cigarettes at

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Speaker 3: the local like Cumberland Farms. And it was just the

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Speaker 3: people I was hanging out with. I was absolutely an

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Speaker 3: average of the friendship group I chose at the time.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I don't know, there was something about sport

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Speaker 3: that made me feel a sense of belonging that I

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Speaker 3: may not have felt otherwise.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I moved differently in.

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Speaker 3: School at a very early age, and my parents worked

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Speaker 3: two jobs, and they, you know, they had a lot

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Speaker 3: going on within you know, their their own lives.

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Speaker 2: That is hard. You know now as a mom, I

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Speaker 2: get it.

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Speaker 3: Because I have access to the things my parents could

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Speaker 3: never So they were trying to live and figure out

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Speaker 3: in real time how to provide and it just it

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Speaker 3: was a lot on them, which becomes a lot on

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Speaker 3: a household. And yeah, I guess for me to just

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Speaker 3: go back to the question without making it the story

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Speaker 3: insanely long, is when I was thirteen, I started getting

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Speaker 3: college letters, and I'm talking handwritten letters from like Harvard

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Speaker 3: and places like I didn't kind of laughable a little

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Speaker 3: bit as a kid who couldn't pass a standardized test

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Speaker 3: and you know, early development child education because it never

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Speaker 3: was a priority in my household.

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Speaker 2: But I was like, Oh, I can get a free education.

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Speaker 3: Oh I can get out of here, and they can

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Speaker 3: pay for all these things. And I think that became

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Speaker 3: the reason why I chose soccer and the reason why

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Speaker 3: I realized that was going to be my ticket out

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Speaker 3: to greatness. And I just put all my cards into

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Speaker 3: that right to that bucket and I went for it.

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Speaker 1: And it was well, it's an escape in the future,

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Speaker 1: and it's a community in the present. Yep. You said

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Speaker 1: you needed to feel safe somewhere. Why did your house

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Speaker 1: feel unsafe?

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Speaker 3: Well, I just think that my family was going through

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Speaker 3: really hard time. My dad went he had a really

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Speaker 3: really bad accident that put him in the hospital for

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Speaker 3: a long time, and he couldn't work and he couldn't

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Speaker 3: do the things that he was used to doing, and

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Speaker 3: it put a strain on my family's relationship. My mom

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Speaker 3: was dealing with mental health problems and depression, and you know,

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Speaker 3: financial problems that made it unbearable. So you know, things

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Speaker 3: started getting introduced, more drugs, more alcohol, more fragmented. Like

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Speaker 3: there's just a ton of loneliness in the house. And

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Speaker 3: I was so resentful because of it for so long

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Speaker 3: until I became a mom and realized how hard it is,

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Speaker 3: how hard it is to provide, how expensive it is,

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Speaker 3: how mental health is a real thing, how you know,

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Speaker 3: health insurance and things like that to get the right

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Speaker 3: medication to you know, make sure everyone was functioning at

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Speaker 3: the best as their best self. Like they didn't My

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Speaker 3: parents didn't have access to that, right.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't the stigmas back then too of actually dealing

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 2: It was mostly people were ostracized for struggling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, or it was like, oh, she's crazy, let's

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Speaker 3: throw her into circles of care. And then I'm like okay,

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Speaker 3: and then what and now what, like, how do we

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Speaker 3: handle this? How do like we just didn't have the

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Speaker 3: you know, access to therapy and to good doctors and

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Speaker 3: to the education piece. We all just tried to figure

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Speaker 3: it out and move forward as best we could, but

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Speaker 3: it just was so toxic.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot to deal with and you did find

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Speaker 1: this outlet in soccer, and your high school achievements are

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Speaker 1: beyond beyond, you know, Gatorade Player of the Year. It's

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Speaker 1: like multi time awards that most people don't win once,

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Speaker 1: let alone multiple years in a row. Like you are

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Speaker 1: very clearly one of the best in the country. You're

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Speaker 1: getting calls from UNC early end up going to UNC,

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Speaker 1: but you don't leave behind some of the things that

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Speaker 1: you struggled with at home. Right, you had addiction issues,

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Speaker 1: and I've heard you say the same sort of story

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Speaker 1: about colleges. You are the person you know sort of

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Speaker 1: that you surround yourself with, and so you found similar

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Speaker 1: circles that UNC, and ultimately your coach had to sort

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Speaker 1: of help you realize that your path could be better

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Speaker 1: going forward if you found a way out.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he gave me a book man Searches for Meaning,

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Speaker 3: and he would take time every week to sit with

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Speaker 3: me and explain to me the values of real connection, community, character,

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Speaker 3: and my goalkeeper coach would show up with me and

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Speaker 3: I was quite embarrassing at the beginning to all my.

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Speaker 2: Classes, but your coach would go with you to class.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Chris Ducar would show up with We call him

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Speaker 3: Big Bird, my goalkeeper coach. He would show up to

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Speaker 3: all my classes because like to make sure, not to

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Speaker 3: make sure I went, but probably just so I felt supported.

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Speaker 3: And like, it's interesting, right, Anson is a believer in

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Speaker 3: built Dorance your coach at Yeah, he's a believer. And

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Speaker 3: you invest just as much as your physical ability as

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Speaker 3: an athlete, but you have to really focus on being

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Speaker 3: a good person to really develop this level of character

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Speaker 3: you want to take with you the rest of your life,

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Speaker 3: whether soccer is your gateway or something else. And I

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Speaker 3: just was so lucky, and I had so much love

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Speaker 3: around me that I wasn't used to. I wasn't used

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Speaker 3: to people showing up that way, and they did that

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Speaker 3: for me, and lucky enough for me, I started and

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Speaker 3: I say this, lucky enough. It's it's very important for

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Speaker 3: me to phrase that. I got very injured, very quickly

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Speaker 3: when I went to Carolina. I blew out both of

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Speaker 3: my knees within the first year, one after another. And

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Speaker 3: I was in a really, really bad place because soccer

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Speaker 3: was supposed to be my ticket out. It was supposed

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Speaker 3: to get me off of food stamps, get me off

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Speaker 3: of government money. You know, I was supposed to help

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Speaker 3: my family, like I was the golden ticket and now

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Speaker 3: I was damaged good and like so many people invested

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Speaker 3: so much time, money, and energy into this dream of mine,

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Speaker 3: and now what was I going to do? So I

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Speaker 3: dove heavily into this both and where I became a

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Speaker 3: normal student, which came with partying, which came with adderall addiction,

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Speaker 3: which came with depression and mental health issues. And then

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Speaker 3: I also focused so heavily on building who I was

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Speaker 3: outside of the game, and I almost was forced into

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Speaker 3: it by Anson, but it was so pivotal and instrumental

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Speaker 3: in developing who I was outside of what I did

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Speaker 3: that I was like, it was this both and terror

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Speaker 3: for me because I was working so hard on myself

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Speaker 3: and my body, but at the same time I was

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Speaker 3: trying to numb out.

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Speaker 2: Because yeah, like damaging it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So it was a really conflicted time for me,

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Speaker 3: but was so pivotal and who I am today.

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Speaker 2: Well, and thank Goodness for him because that's such a

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Speaker 2: natural response.

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Speaker 1: So the book I just wrote, I ended up diving

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Speaker 1: into so many different outlets of research, reading other books

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Speaker 1: about generational trauma pathologies and why people end up the

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Speaker 1: way they are. Numbing self, you know, harm all the

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Speaker 1: other things. You know, the body keeps the score. I

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Speaker 1: can't recommend it enough to peoples. This incredible book about

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Speaker 1: understanding how our body is not separate from our brain.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't like go a head up and then head

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Speaker 1: down and they operate differently. It's all very connected. So

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Speaker 1: your desire to heal some of the trauma from growing

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Speaker 1: up is at the same time damaging this prop that

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Speaker 1: you know is of importance to you and your family

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Speaker 1: and everything else. So you end up balancing it out,

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Speaker 1: finding a way to have success, leading the team to

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Speaker 1: national titles. You end up becoming a US women's national

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Speaker 1: team player, having great success on the highest levels. But

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Speaker 1: because you learned who you were outside of soccer. When

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Speaker 1: you talk about life after soccer, you sound so very

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Speaker 1: different from other people who talk about the moment where

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Speaker 1: their identity as an athlete sort of ends and they

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Speaker 1: have to start anew. It doesn't feel like it's black

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Speaker 1: and white like that. For you, was soccer ever really

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Speaker 1: who you were after that point in college where you

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Speaker 1: recognize that you needed to find out what was past

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Speaker 1: being a goalkeeper.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question everyone. I'll even take it back

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Speaker 3: one step Sarah, because I do think this is important

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Speaker 3: and we're so quick to judge in this current world

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Speaker 3: and landscape. Soccer was sort of vibe for me, like

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Speaker 3: I had no option b if it didn't work. No

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Speaker 3: one was paying for my education, not one person at

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Speaker 3: the time, and my family even graduated from college, let

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Speaker 3: alone how to college education. Everyone always used to be like, God,

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Speaker 3: you're just so hungry and you're so intense the way

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Speaker 3: you play, the way you move, but off the field,

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Speaker 3: like you're just this gentle, soft human that wants to

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Speaker 3: connect and wants to do good in the world. And

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Speaker 3: I have to be very clear because I think people

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Speaker 3: often misunderstood me in a lot of ways because they

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Speaker 3: couldn't understand my upbringing. They couldn't understand what survival mode

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Speaker 3: looks like. They couldn't understand getting in a lunch line

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Speaker 3: and trying to steal pieces of you know, fruit or

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Speaker 3: bars or more milk or you know. I had to

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Speaker 3: steal a lot as a kid for survival. So not

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Speaker 3: that I had to, I don't want to say that

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Speaker 3: I had to, but it was a means of survival. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So I didn't wrap all my worth into the game.

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Speaker 3: I just knew it would be worth it in the

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Speaker 3: end to get me out of the experience.

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Speaker 1: That I was like, yeah, And also, nothing heals like sport,

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Speaker 1: So it's not just that intellectually you understand it's an outlet. Physically,

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Speaker 1: you are going somewhere where you're taking deep, gasping breaths

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Speaker 1: and tells your body that times of fight or flight

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Speaker 1: are over, that you're not in a traumatic situation.

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Speaker 3: You're able to run, stop, breathe.

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Speaker 1: Like, communicate with others, like in all these things that

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Speaker 1: are inherent to sport that we sort of take for

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Speaker 1: granted are in opposition to the traumatic moments at home.

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Speaker 3: And allow you those breaks that part. So I'll take

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Speaker 3: it a step further. I was so damn good at

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Speaker 3: my job because I was so comfortable and suffering because

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Speaker 3: I already knew it, you know what I mean, Like

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Speaker 3: the air is very thin at the top, and it

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Speaker 3: takes a very unique mindset to be that brainwashed to

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Speaker 3: want to choose and do it every single day. And

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Speaker 3: I felt so much comfort and ease and suffering because

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Speaker 3: I felt like it's all I ever knew that it

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Speaker 3: was weirdly my superpower. And I don't know if most

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Speaker 3: people can say that, and I think that is the

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Speaker 3: unlearning I am in now, in the phase that I'm in,

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Speaker 3: that I don't have to suffer to feel at home anymore.

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Speaker 3: Like there's so much more beauty to life, and I

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Speaker 3: think being great I just was, you know, because I

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Speaker 3: say this all the time, Everyone's like, what was the secret?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, I just did the shit other

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Speaker 3: people weren't willing to do because I had. I felt

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Speaker 3: so much comfort and ease and pain and it was familiar.

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Speaker 3: It was weirdly comforting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a million psychological reasons for that. You

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Speaker 1: could talk to a whole lot of people who do

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Speaker 1: things like ultra running or other sports where you sit

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Speaker 1: in the suffering and it actually feels like healing to

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Speaker 1: their brain because of the wiring from what came before.

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Speaker 1: You know, I want to talk about what you said

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Speaker 1: about greatness. I've been listening to some former athletes talk

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Speaker 1: about greatness as a goal being inherently unhealthy, because the

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Speaker 1: pursuit of greatness as an achievement ultimately feels hollow once

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Speaker 1: you've gotten to where you thought was going to solve

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Speaker 1: all the problems.

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Speaker 2: And you know, listening to Megan Rappino and Sue Bird and.

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Speaker 1: Aby Wambach talk about it feels amazing standing on the podium,

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Speaker 1: It feels amazing that night celebrating, and the very next morning,

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Speaker 1: even as you try to continue the celebration, the predominant

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Speaker 1: feeling is I want to.

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Speaker 2: Do it again. Now I got to go do it again.

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Speaker 2: Now I got to figure out how to do it again.

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Speaker 1: So can you pursue greatness and have the process or

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Speaker 1: the journey be the thing that you're actually seeking as

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Speaker 1: opposed to the end results. Because your medals are in

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Speaker 1: a ziplock bag in your closet, clearly that's not what

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Speaker 1: you were actually going for.

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Speaker 3: You don't see jerseys hanging up in my office, right,

352
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Speaker 3: I see my kids. I think that's the greatest trophy

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Speaker 3: I won is being called the mom. So I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think we have We all have a different why,

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Speaker 3: I guess, and you know, I have a lot to

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Speaker 3: unpack and as I'm on this journey of self discovery

357
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Speaker 3: and actually choosing what I want because for a long

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Speaker 3: time a lot of things were out of my control,

359
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Speaker 3: it was not my choice. So like what, Well, you

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Speaker 3: don't choose your coach, you don't choose your teams, your circumstances,

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Speaker 3: or where you have to live, or how you have

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Speaker 3: to get on a plane, or your schedule. Every single day,

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Speaker 3: I choose nothing. I was a machine. I was told

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Speaker 3: to get up to be here, then to do this.

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Speaker 3: This is like the playbook. This is how you stay.

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Speaker 3: You know, like it's it's a different.

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Speaker 1: Some people like that and feel a little lost when

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Speaker 1: they retire and have an open day in front of them.

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Speaker 1: Did you like that ever at the time, like you said,

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Speaker 1: you're a machine and you were built for that, or

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Speaker 1: did you always feel like I'm willing to do this,

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Speaker 1: but I look forward to a time when I will

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Speaker 1: get my own choice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I for me, I just never put so much weight

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Speaker 3: on what I did. I mean, they say the greatest

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Speaker 3: athletes of all time have short term memory, and I

378
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Speaker 3: just like I didn't overthink. I didn't you know, I

379
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Speaker 3: always knew that if I made one mistake, that made

380
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Speaker 3: me human, But what I did after that mistake would

381
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Speaker 3: decide the fate of that game. Did one mistake turn

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Speaker 3: into five? Did I dump it?

383
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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: There's just so many things that just worked for me.

385
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Speaker 3: I was a little less emotional in terms of I

386
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Speaker 3: just knew. I wasn't crying cancer there. I was like, Okay,

387
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 3: we lose this game, Like damn, that sucks because I'm

388
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Speaker 3: a competitor and I want to win. But it's not

389
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Speaker 3: like what I do after the game and how I

390
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Speaker 3: show up for the people in the stands that paid

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Speaker 3: for that type of entertainment was more about who I

392
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Speaker 3: was than what my performance was for ninety minutes. Like

393
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Speaker 3: when I'm pissed off at the world and I want

394
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Speaker 3: to throw shit and walk into the locker room. A

395
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Speaker 3: hundred people are there paying, you know, more than a hundred,

396
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Speaker 3: but like this matters to them. This moment of interaction

397
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Speaker 3: is what they've been dreaming for and waiting for a

398
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Speaker 3: long time, and it's my responsibility and my privilege to

399
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Speaker 3: make that a priority. So for me, it was really

400
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Speaker 3: always it became about the people and the fans because

401
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Speaker 3: I knew what it was like to not belong. I

402
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 3: knew what it was like to feel as an outsider

403
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 3: and unsafe. So if I can make the walls of

404
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 3: that stadium carrying opening and accepting I'm doing something greater

405
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 3: than the sport could ever give me, it's purpose. And

406
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Speaker 3: I carried that with me forever, and it's instilled in

407
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Speaker 3: everything I do. My weight is not on championship games

408
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 3: or medals or this and that, because it really left me.

409
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Speaker 3: It really left me damaged. I don't know a nicer

410
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 3: way to put that. Yeah, it's called the blues. Like

411
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: we work. You know, people are like, oh my god,

412
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: the World Cup. You know how many years when in

413
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 3: a lifetime went into that tournament, and then once you win,

414
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Speaker 3: it's like, okay, now what.

415
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Speaker 1: The post Olympic blues is very real thing that a

416
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Speaker 1: lot of people talk about. And that's the result of

417
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Speaker 1: achievement culture. Once you've achieved a thing, if it didn't

418
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Speaker 1: all your problems, which it usually doesn't, now here you

419
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 1: are with all the problems you had before and not

420
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Speaker 1: the goal anymore.

421
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Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break when we come

422
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Speaker 3: back more.

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Speaker 1: With Ashlyn Harris, it doesn't feel like you prioritized achievement

424
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Speaker 1: quite the same way a lot of other athletes did,

425
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Speaker 1: but it still was very much a part of your

426
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Speaker 1: life and it was the thing that kept you moving

427
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Speaker 1: toward whatever the next practice was, whatever the next game was.

428
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Speaker 1: When you're done with soccer, you've moved beyond soccer. How

429
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: do you find a way to make life be a

430
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: series of processes and journeys as opposed.

431
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Speaker 2: To needing to have some goal at every turn.

432
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Speaker 3: You know, I had to do a lot of work,

433
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Speaker 3: and I don't say that lightly. I've had to do

434
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Speaker 3: a lot of work. And I'm still on this journey

435
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: of self discovery and I'm still on this evolution of

436
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Speaker 3: who I want to be. And am I there yet?

437
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: No?

438
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 3: And I think we're never always quite there yet. But

439
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Speaker 3: I'll say this, I don't chase so much of the extremes,

440
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 3: highs and lows that sport brings us, which is a

441
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 3: beautiful thing and a curse all at the same time.

442
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 3: I actually am trying to find purpose and meaning and

443
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 3: really just the small moments in life that I was

444
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 3: too busy in the pursuit of greatness to even realize

445
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 3: there is so much beauty and the most simple, mundane

446
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 3: moments of your life, especially having children. And like, I'm

447
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: not on this journey of perfection. I'm on this journey

448
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 3: of being at peace. And I think it's not about

449
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 3: you know, at the beginning, it was like how can

450
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 3: I be happy? Like I don't know what joy looks

451
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: like or happiness looks like and you know, I did

452
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: a lot with Deepak Chopra, I've done a lot with

453
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,719
Speaker 3: the Wellness Oasis. I've done a lot with my friends

454
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 3: and healing and interviews. But what I'm realizing more than ever,

455
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: it's just I don't know if I've ever been at peace,

456
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: and it is something I am embodying and living in

457
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 3: in the moment that if it doesn't bring me that

458
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: type of steadiness and peace, I don't have to choose it.

459
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 3: Because I think if we, you know, whatever we choose

460
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: to accept, we are choosing, like we are literally choosing

461
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: it every single day. And I'm in a beautiful space

462
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 3: now where I can pick what I want to do

463
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 3: and pick my friends, and you know, pick my family

464
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: and pick my partner, and all of it is going

465
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: to matter to bring you know, these walls in my

466
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: house security and safety and ease and love and kindness.

467
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: And to me, that is the biggest win.

468
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you reconcile your pursuit of excellence?

469
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: I've heard you talk in a lot of places about

470
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: like you want to show your kids what it means

471
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: to be strong and powerful and emotional and complex and complicated.

472
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: It's not perfection you want to show them, but it

473
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: is excellence. How do you reconcile that with the inevitabilities

474
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: of motherhood, which is mistakes happen, accidents are common, Plans change,

475
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: things break because I am a bit of a control freak,

476
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: and so watching people navigate parenthood and how many times

477
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: there's a plan and it falls apart immediately before you've

478
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: even left the house.

479
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god, I would not be

480
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: able to handle it.

481
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: So how do you adjust your standard of living from

482
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: when it was just you to all these people that

483
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: are now a part.

484
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: Of your life.

485
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 3: I think having children have really softened me. It has

486
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 3: changed my perspective greatly. It is one of the hardest

487
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: and most beautiful things you can do. And both you

488
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 3: know each day presents something different. But I do feel

489
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 3: that the way I see the world is very different

490
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: than before I had kids, and I am so much

491
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: more like I check myself is like I have two

492
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: kids that are looking at me every single day for

493
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: guidance and understanding in a world that's very cruel. So

494
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: I yeah, I have this insane purpose not to overcorrect

495
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 3: because I think, I think, and this is I talk

496
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 3: about this and therapy quite often is when you come

497
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: from a background of trauma, most parents and people try

498
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: to overcorrect, and I think that can be toxic too. Yeah,

499
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: and yeah, I it's like smotherings.

500
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: It's like everything's gonna be so perfect, I'm gonna nail

501
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: it so hard, and then they're projecting a whole bunch

502
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: of new shit.

503
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: Exactly for their kids exactly.

504
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: So I think for me, it's just been this beautiful

505
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 3: exploration of just figuring it out as I go and

506
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with that, and being so humbled and

507
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: open even when I get it wrong, to make sure

508
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 3: I'm apologizing and making sure I'm holding myself accountable, and

509
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm actually raising my kids to be good adults,

510
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 3: you know. And I think that is the hardest thing

511
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 3: to do. And I don't have the secret sauce, but

512
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: like I think, time is the greatest gift you can

513
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: give someone, So showing up for my kids is all

514
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: I can do to continue to help them build these

515
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 3: beautiful lives. And for me to be a small part

516
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 3: of that, it's really been such a joy and a gift.

517
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 3: And I love being a mom.

518
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, time an example, right, I think there are parents

519
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: who think do as I say, and the kids are

520
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: always going to do as you do. And I know

521
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: that it was hard for you to choose something different

522
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: than what you had built. You built a marriage and

523
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: kids and a life that was something you thought you

524
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: always wanted, and you've said you looked back and you thought,

525
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is a decade of building something,

526
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: and now I'm in it and it's not for me.

527
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: It's not what I want.

528
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: Knowing that you live your life publicly, both as an

529
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 1: athlete and as a podcaster, or and as someone who

530
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: is wide open quite literally, the name of your show

531
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: about your struggles and your life and your challenge is

532
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: what fears did you have about getting a divorce very

533
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: publicly from someone everybody knows as well and starting anew

534
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: in a way with a new partner. What did you

535
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: worry about in terms of it or did you worry

536
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: about what others might think?

537
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think you know, for so long your brain

538
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: lashed as a team. You know, you've you've got to

539
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 3: play this role and you've got to you know, you've

540
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: got to do your part, and you know not every time.

541
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: Do you like that role or do you like that part?

542
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: And I just like, I think my biggest concern has

543
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: always and my priority has always been my teams, and

544
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: then it became my kids. And I think most people

545
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: who've experienced big changes and shifts, I just constantly felt

546
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: I was losing who I was in the process and

547
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 3: I wasn't making enough space for the things that I wanted.

548
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: And I think it's a really selfish thing to do.

549
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: I think it's a brave thing to do. And I

550
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: know I hurt like a lot of people in the process,

551
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: and that is something like I have to learn to

552
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 3: deal with and cope with, but also like I found

553
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 3: myself in the process, and I can't apologize for that.

554
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 3: I think for far too long, you know, people live

555
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: this life because they feel they have to, and then

556
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: you know, when they're in their seventies and eighties, and

557
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: it's a little more convene than leaving, Like I just

558
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: didn't want to feel that. And I think a lot

559
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: of criticism comes with people saying, well, you know, I

560
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: take a lot of the heat and I'm the one

561
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: that did you know, did this? And I'm the one

562
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: that put my kids in a broken home. But sometimes

563
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: it's like, but I was already broken in the process.

564
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: So what would I have projected on those children building

565
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: this life and bringing them into it and hating it,

566
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: Like my children would carry that more than you know,

567
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: a home where I feel safe and I feel happy

568
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: and I feel you know that I have purpose and

569
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 3: I have space to be exactly who I want to be.

570
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: And I think, yeah, it's hard, and it's constantly hard

571
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: because you know you don't you don't you love someone

572
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: and you try these things out and sometimes like you

573
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 3: build these lives and you're kind of strangers within the

574
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: walls of them, and you have to make decisions. And

575
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: I made a decision and I, you know, it was

576
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: what's best for me, And I know that sounds so selfish,

577
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: but I needed to because for so long I sacrificed

578
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 3: my whole life and everything for the team, for the family,

579
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 3: for the partnership, for the kids. And you know, you

580
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: look at yourself in the mirror and you're like, who

581
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: theck have you become?

582
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think you said it selfish, but I think

583
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: it's selfish potentially in the moment, and then it's generous

584
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: in the long term. And I think a lot of

585
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: I have personal friends and I've heard a lot of

586
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: people talk about staying together for the kids, but ultimately,

587
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: what you're showing your kids is unhappiness, dissatisfaction, feeling stock

588
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: making a choice once and then living in it forever

589
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: instead of the opportunity. When I was younger, I used

590
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: to think divorce was a failure, and now I think

591
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: every day you wake up and you make a choice,

592
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: and if you keep choosing that person every day, that's great.

593
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: If too many days in a row happen where you

594
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't choose them anymore, then do you just stay in

595
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: that forever? That's not life for anyone, even for a

596
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: partner that still wants to be with you. If you

597
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: don't want to be with them, that's not the best

598
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: that they can get or that you can get.

599
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: But everybody thinks they know what everybody else is going through.

600
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you prevent yourself from getting lost in

601
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: the opinions of others or the feelings of others about

602
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: the choices that you've made and the life that you have,

603
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: Knowing that they don't know about it, and knowing that

604
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: you should just be able to say they don't know shit,

605
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: who cares?

606
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: That's hard as someone who's in the public spotlight.

607
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: It's hard for me when I think people misunderstand me

608
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: or misrepresent me, and.

609
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 2: I know that that happens to you sometimes.

610
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 3: Oh it happens all the time. And it is a

611
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: very cruel world out there. And I have learned a

612
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 3: lot about tabloids. I've learned a lot about friends. I've

613
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: learned a lot about people at their core. I've learned

614
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 3: who people are when moments get hard. And I know

615
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 3: the greatest gift that I've learned through this process is

616
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: knowing who will show up when shit's hard, and I

617
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 3: think that has been invaluable for me to make smart,

618
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 3: educated decisions about who I will bring with me in

619
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 3: this next chapter of my life I'm building, and who

620
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: I absolutely won't. And I think the Internet is a

621
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: really toxic place to live. I have very clear boundaries

622
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 3: around it now. I think people are extremely hurtful and

623
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: they do it on purpose, and it's hard to not

624
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 3: let those things penetrate because I am sensitive and I

625
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 3: have built a life and a reputation based on love

626
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 3: and kindness, and currency is in those moments of connection

627
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 3: and interaction and making this world a better place, especially

628
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 3: for the queer community. It's very It's the very community

629
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 3: that ended up stabbing me in the back and telling

630
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: me I was wrong and telling me I was this

631
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 3: and that and all these things. And yeah, it's like

632
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: it's like whiplash. It's like, oh my god, Like how

633
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: could people say this? How could people? No one's lived

634
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 3: in my walls, no one's lived the life. And let

635
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 3: me be very clear, like, even if four people are

636
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 3: living in the walls of a home, they're all having

637
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: different experiences and we have to be able to make

638
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: room for that.

639
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do.

640
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: It has been hard. I mean still to this day,

641
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: it's like, I, you know, it's really hard for me

642
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 3: to say this, and I'll say this. I haven't said

643
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 3: this to anyone, but in a place that I felt

644
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: so safe playing soccer. I have not stepped in a

645
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: soccer stadium since. It is actually the place I feel

646
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: the least safe right now, and that's because of the

647
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: people in it.

648
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

649
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: I think there's a million reasons why.

650
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: And without knowing the specifics of your life, I think

651
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: there's a million reasons why. It's easy to quote unquote

652
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: pick a side when one side hadn't found someone new

653
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: yet was beloved in soccer had been high achieving, and

654
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: for you to be with a woman who had been

655
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: married to a man, that's the queer community's going to

656
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: make judgments about that. They're going to make judgments about

657
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: her being a beautiful and successful actress, and whether you're

658
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: just reaching for this celebrity and fame and leaving behind

659
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 1: someone that everybody like. There's a million ways to very

660
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: simply try to turn this into, like you said, a

661
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: tabloid style story with a.

662
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: Villain and a hero.

663
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: And people often do that when they're dissatisfied with their

664
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: own selves and judgment of others feels good. It scratches

665
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: an itch for them because they haven't done the work

666
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: to figure out why they need to pursue that. Right,

667
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: if you're spending your days reading about other people's troubles,

668
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: enjoying the schadenfreud of people that aren't deserving of any

669
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: sort of whiplash, like it's your thing. And I'm not

670
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: saying people can't have opinions, and I'm not saying people

671
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: can't be critical, And sometimes that criticism does show us

672
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: something about ourselves we were unaware of. Sometimes there are

673
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: people on the internet, I'm like, you know what you're right,

674
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: I should probably work on there. Actually, you know what,

675
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 1: I never thought about that, but now that I realize

676
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 1: I'm giving off.

677
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: That energy, let me go ahead and fix that.

678
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but ultimately you have to then take all that

679
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: and say, I get why they quote unquote picked aside,

680
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: I get why they're being judgmental, and what is my

681
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: option for my life moving forward that both acknowledges that

682
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: this space that was once safe isn't right now and

683
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: finds a space that is, or finds people that are,

684
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: or finds things that are in the hopeset. And I

685
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: hope for you that you can return to that space

686
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: and that it feels like a place for you again

687
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: because you brought so much to it.

688
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: Do you have a toolbox for.

689
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: Those moments where you are looking around and you're thinking,

690
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: I figured out how to get through this that you

691
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: could help someone else with. Are there tips you could

692
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: give people who are in that moment where it feels

693
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: overwhelming of criticism or places that used to be there

694
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: as in arts anymore.

695
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll say this, so I'll say the best thing

696
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: everyone could have done for me is shut the door

697
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: on me. Because you learn a lot about yourself when

698
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 3: you're in a quiet room for a very long time

699
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: and you don't have anyone to turn to. That's when

700
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 3: the real work begins. And I was it was a

701
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 3: privilege for me to sit in that type of darkness

702
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 3: and that isolation to really learn who I am and

703
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 3: what I'm made of and what I want. So, you know,

704
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: you talk about this burning into the fucking ground and

705
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: rising from the ashes, like I get it, and I

706
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: don't feel sorry about it. I don't feel sorry for

707
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: myself about it. It was the greatest gift that everyone

708
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 3: could give to me, because I don't know if I

709
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 3: would have done the work I've been doing. I don't

710
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: know if I would have seen the world this clearly

711
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 3: I did, And I was so reliant on other people

712
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 3: to make me happy for so long that I now

713
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 3: have dropped that and now I'm learning in real time

714
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 3: and understanding the things that serve me and make me

715
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 3: happy and the things that don't. And I think that's

716
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 3: a great gift to all of us. Is isolation will

717
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: teach you a lot about yourself. And maybe I enjoyed

718
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: it a little too much, but I am very particular

719
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 3: now of the people I allow to come into my

720
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: space and not. And I'll tell you this, Sarah one

721
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: hundred times over. I rather feel safe in the walls

722
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: of my house than in that stadium. So now the

723
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: roles have reversed, and I hope one day I can

724
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: feel the sense of belonging and safety that I brought

725
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 3: to people as a performer and a player. And something

726
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: I don't take lightly is soccer saved my life. But

727
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 3: also like I am now living a life that I imagined,

728
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 3: and I feel the safety in my home and purpose

729
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 3: here for the first time, and I hope eventually it

730
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 3: balances out. But what I've learned about trauma and safety

731
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 3: is I don't have to put myself in those positions

732
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 3: and go three steps backward. I will know when that

733
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 3: time is right. And I've had these conversations with Bri.

734
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 3: It's like a deep bread yeah, a deep dark cover

735
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: or a deep dark dungeon, like a basement. And right

736
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 3: now the basement is locked and I'm not whole enough

737
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 3: to stand in it. But when i am, I can

738
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 3: figure that out.

739
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Can I ask you a question? Yes?

740
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 3: Please?

741
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: The way you talked about and we're almost done here,

742
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: but I'm curious the way you talked about the sort

743
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: of people shutting the door on you and then you

744
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: finding yourself in that dark room. It does feel a

745
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: little them versus me. Did you feel like during any

746
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: of this moment where you're sort of uprooting your life

747
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: and struggling to figure out why am I unhappy?

748
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: What do I want? Who am I?

749
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: You did an interview with Carrie Champion where you said

750
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 1: I don't like myself. You didn't like who you had become,

751
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: so clearly you're going through a lot. Is there a

752
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: part of you that feels responsible or takes responsibility for

753
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: the ways that you interacted with people in that moment

754
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: too that caused them to react that way, or does

755
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: it feel like, no matter how you view it, it's

756
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: you versus everyone. They were against you, as opposed to

757
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: a collaborative process whereby you were maybe hard to be around,

758
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: or you were misunderstood, or you were acting in a

759
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: way that they didn't understand. And now you can look

760
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: back and say, oh, I found myself and I'm happy,

761
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: But at the time it was disruptive for others too,

762
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: and they weren't sure how to receive it.

763
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it just was a really hard thing

764
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 3: because so many of our lives were interconnected. So I

765
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: don't think it's in us first them. I think it's

766
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: a reality of the state we live in. We're in

767
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 3: a cancel cold sure, and you know it's.

768
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 2: Even your friends. Though you felt like that was part

769
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: of what they were doing.

770
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: I don't think people really knew what to do. I

771
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 3: genuinely think that that's more of what it was because

772
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 3: we were this, you know, this couple, and we loved

773
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: each other so much when we were together for a

774
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 3: really long time and we were teammates and kids together. Like,

775
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 3: I think everyone was just like, what the just happened?

776
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: So I don't I don't think it's like a them

777
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: versus us. I just think that the tabloids created a

778
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: lot of isolation where it felt like that, Yeah, it

779
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 3: felt like I had a big target and they wanted

780
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 3: to destroy me at all costs. And I think that

781
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 3: was the hardest thing. You know, it was just the

782
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 3: tabloids will eat you up and spit you out, and

783
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: that's just that's good, that's good clickbait.

784
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's business. It takes somebody demonize them, get everybody.

785
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: When we've seen it across like what we saw with

786
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: like the Justin Belton Lively. We literally saw the behind

787
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: the scenes of how that happens and how it's done

788
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: with intention to turn everyone against someone, and so much

789
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: easier to pick a black and white story where one

790
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: person's bad and the other's good that it is to

791
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: get into the messy reality of life.

792
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I just think that that the tabloids are

793
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: really what made me feel isolated and ashamed. I think

794
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: that's because you read it and you see it, and

795
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 3: you see what you know these people have to say

796
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 3: about and you start believing it, you know. So it's

797
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: a really dark place to live in. And then I

798
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: just had to get rid of it all, get rid

799
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: of my phone, get rid of my apps, because it's

800
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: just that's not who I am, and that's right. I

801
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 3: don't need validation and I don't need other people to

802
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: tell me who I am or who I've become or

803
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 3: this or that, Like I had to do the work

804
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 3: and search for it. But the biggest thing I'll say

805
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: is we definitely don't create enough space to give people grace.

806
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 3: I think we're all learning in real time and are

807
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: there things I want to do differently or wish I

808
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 3: could have done differently, of course, I think we all

809
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 3: do that. I mean, it was not an easy process,

810
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 3: and you know, I learn from it and I'm stronger

811
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: because of it, and you just got to keep it pushing,

812
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 3: Like life is such a gift. Every day I wake

813
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: up and there's another sunrise. I get another day with

814
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 3: my kids, and I don't want to waste that. I

815
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: don't want to waste energy of the expectations people are

816
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: placing on me when they don't know me. Like, that's

817
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 3: something I can't carry. I can't carry everyone's trauma. I'm

818
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: trying to unpack and work through my own. So yeah,

819
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 3: the projection is quite hard, but like I get it.

820
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 2: The work is the thing that you keep coming back to,

821
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: And that's what I want to end with.

822
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: You have taken so much care intending to your mental

823
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: and physical health throughout your life, in different stages and

824
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: in different ways. How do you continue the work and

825
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: how do you recommend to others that they find the

826
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: time to be a intentional enough to see themselves and

827
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: decide what they want.

828
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 2: To keep and what they want to fix.

829
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for now I'm actually present in my body.

830
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 3: I used to always like do these words of affirmation,

831
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 3: and I did it all the time, looking at myself

832
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 3: in the mirror, and I'm like, well, if I tell

833
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: myself I'm enough over and over and over, maybe I'll

834
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 3: believe it. But I think just really being in my

835
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 3: body now that when things like and having good communication,

836
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 3: when something like with myself, when I feel something or

837
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 3: something bumps up against me, I'm able to really sit

838
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 3: with it and unpack it and not necessarily project it

839
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 3: or push it down. Because I have a game the

840
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 3: next day, I don't have that distraction anymore. So I

841
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 3: can actually be in my body, which is such a

842
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: beautiful thing because I can listen to it. So when

843
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 3: it does, you know, bump me in a weird way,

844
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: or I feel this you know, moment of ugh, I

845
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 3: can actually sit with it and be like, why why

846
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 3: are we feeling this way? What is it triggering? Is

847
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 3: this your seven year old self that's hiding in the

848
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 3: closet that's coming out or are we going to go

849
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: sit in that closet with her and tell her she

850
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 3: going to be okay.

851
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:17,479
Speaker 1: Yeah.

852
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: I think it's a real beautiful thing to know yourself

853
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 3: well enough. Now I'm going backwards in time, being like, oh,

854
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: this is triggering this response.

855
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: What needs to heal so that next time that doesn't

856
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: come up correct. Yeah, it's really powerful. I really feel

857
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: for people who still have the distractions or don't have

858
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: the time to look at it, because that changes everything

859
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: when you decide to look and handle it differently. Right,

860
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: last question for you, If you look beyond the goalie

861
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: box at Ashland Harris, you'll find what.

862
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: I feel like.

863
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 3: I'm just a connector through and through. I live life

864
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 3: through connection. It's my greatest asset and gift is to

865
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: see people. And I just really really love the human experience.

866
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 3: I don't know how to say it better than that,

867
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: but I love the fact that I'm a connector and

868
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 3: I want to carry that out with me forever. That's

869
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: what my late grandmother taught me. And there's a sense

870
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 3: of gentleness to be able to care for other people

871
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 3: even when you're going through this exploration stage. But I

872
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 3: find it very healing.

873
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. Well, thanks so much for giving

874
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 2: us some time and being so wide open.

875
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Speaker 3: Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's always nice to

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Speaker 3: be with you.

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Speaker 2: It's my favorite.

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Speaker 1: Good game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports

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Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You

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00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: could find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network.

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Speaker 1: Our producers are alex Asie and Misha Jones. Our executive

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Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer.

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Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and

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Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer. Our associate producers Lucy Jones and I'm Your

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Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain