1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Give me some job part of the Giants Podcast Network. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,039 Speaker 1: Let's role. Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 1: New York Football Giants. I am John Schmolke, joining us today. 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: Joined us a couple of years ago. Haven't talked to 6 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Derek in a while. Derek Klassen, who is with Bleacher Report. 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: He does all their skill position rankings. But I know Derek, 8 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: you're up to a whole lot more too. So before 9 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: we get started, first of all, thanks well for being 10 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: with us. Tell the folks within you fin all your 11 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: great stuff. 12 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. It's 13 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: really nice to be back. You guys can find me 14 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: on Twitter at kb klass if you want to, Like 15 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: John said, you can. You can find all my NFL 16 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: drafts work over bleacher Report. I do all of our 17 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: skill position players. We also have a great other bunch 18 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: of guys that do all the other positions if you 19 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: want to check out their stuff as well. They do 20 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: a really good job. And then I also do some 21 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: quarterback charting work over at Reception Perception. I did the 22 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: NFL charting last offseason, and then obviously this you know 23 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: draft cycle, I've gotten to all the quarterbacks. I think 24 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: I've gotten through nine and I think seven or eight 25 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: of the profiles are already up and we'll have the 26 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: rest of them before we actually get the draft nights. 27 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 3: So so definitely go check that out. 28 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna have Derek's colleague Brandon Thorn on this 29 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: week as well to talk about the offensive line prospects, 30 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: So don't worry. We have Brandon every year as well. 31 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: We like to kind of get guys that study these 32 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: guys and you do a lot of quarterback work, Derek 33 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: to your point, and I think this is a very 34 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: interesting year before we get into the players in investing 35 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: in these quarterbacks this year. I've talked to Kurt Wanner 36 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: on the show. I've talked to former GMS, Thomas Dimitrov, 37 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: Randy Mueller, talked to former scouts, and all of them 38 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: had different reasons why evaluating college quarterbacks is so hard 39 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: and why the NFL is frankly so bad at it. 40 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: We had Stephen roriis on from The Ringer as well, 41 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: who does a lot of his own quarterback charting and stuff. 42 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: And where I've kind of come down to is that 43 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: me as a layman, and you who is more into 44 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: it than I am, but still a layman in this 45 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: it's almost very difficult to impossible to figure out how 46 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: a guy processes and thinks and goes through reads without 47 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: knowing what the coaches are telling them. Kurt Warner told 48 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: me this a guy that wears a gold jacket in 49 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame to play quarterback. So I'm gonna 50 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: go with that and I'm just gonna look at traits 51 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: and then the GM's tell me that, yeah, you can 52 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: figure some of that stuff out when you meet with 53 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: these guys privately and you put them on the board, 54 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: you have him break down video and stuff, you can 55 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: figure some of that processing stuff out. Yet they still 56 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: get this stuff wrong half the time. So what's the 57 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: difficulty for you in trying to project these college quarterbacks 58 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: to the pros? What do you think you have a 59 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: good handle on and what's some of the stuff you 60 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: still struggle on a little bit. 61 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: I mean, I think you kind of nail it with 62 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: the processing stuff, and it's it. I think you can 63 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: kind of get a gauge for how quickly a guy 64 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: does things, like I think you can you know just 65 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: how quick his footwork is how quick he's going one 66 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: to two to three. 67 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: I think you can get a sense for that. 68 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: You know, how quick does he react to pressure in 69 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: Boom knows where his outlet is or Boom knows you know, 70 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 2: he can get to a backside thrower knows he's pressured 71 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: and knows he has enough time. Like that is processing 72 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 2: in a sense, but in terms of you know, understanding 73 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: the process of like how is he going to. 74 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 3: Adapt to a true five step drop from. 75 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: Shotgun and passing concept, It's like these guys just don't 76 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: run them like they It's just not in the offense 77 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 2: for a lot of these guys. 78 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 3: And there are certain exceptions. 79 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: You know, the LSU offense has some NFL elements to it. 80 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: The Washington offense had some NFL elements to it, but 81 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: again it's it's still not all the way. Like you know, 82 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: the Washington offense I think is actually a good one 83 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: to start with. People look at it and it seems 84 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: NFL ish, right, Like they're very aggressive. It's a lot 85 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: of five step drop like they're playing from shotgun, but 86 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: they only run like vertical five step drop. Everyone's going 87 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: down the field five out the in the concept like 88 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: running backs out and it's like, okay, that. 89 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: Is NFL ish. 90 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: But also NFL teams are only running concepts like that, 91 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: you know, three, four or five times a game, maybe 92 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: because it's it's just a lot of investment and when 93 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: you're you know, five in the concept, it's very high 94 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: risk in terms of protection. But Washington just had the players. 95 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: They had the offensive tackle talent, they had the wide 96 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: receiver talent where they could call it twenty times a game, 97 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, it's they're kind of doing NFL stuff, 98 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: but the degree to what they're doing is just not Actually, 99 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: it's not gonna happen in the NFL. And I think 100 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: that's important for a guy like Penix because when he 101 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: gets to the NFL, he's gonna have to throw the 102 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: one to ten yard you know, quick game area. 103 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: A lot, a lot, a lot more. 104 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: And over the middle of the field, by the way, 105 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: which he had some fish stuff outside against off covered, 106 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: but there was nothing in that you know, five to 107 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: twenty yard are in the middle of the field in traffic. 108 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: It was none of that exactly, and they could just 109 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 2: get away with not having to do it. But in 110 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: the NFL that's just not going to be the case, 111 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: Like there are very very rare instances where you can 112 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 2: get away with operating that way. You know, Russell Wilson 113 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: at his peak, I guess kind of operated that way. 114 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 3: Or Jalen Hurts kind of. 115 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: You know, he's not a guy who throws the middle 116 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: of the field a lot, but Jalen is actually good 117 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: throwing quick game, so you know what I mean. Like, 118 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: so even that is different from what Michael Penix has 119 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: been doing. So I think that's really the key, is 120 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: like understanding that what these guys were asked to do 121 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: in college, even if sometimes it looks NFL ish, it's 122 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: just not really what you're gonna get in the NFL. 123 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: And nine times out of ten, there's going to be 124 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 2: a pretty big learning curve for what these guys were 125 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: doing at the college level to what they're going to 126 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: do in the pros. And so again to your point, 127 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: even talking to guys like Kurt Warner, if even they're 128 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: getting their heads spinning over what these guys are doing 129 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: from college going to the NFL, it's really hard for 130 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: a guy like me, you know, who has I haven't 131 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: play with the Greatest show on surf, you. 132 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,239 Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I look at it, and I could waste 133 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: the you know it takes me. First of all, I 134 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: tried to go through these top two for quarterbacks. I 135 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: watched every one of their dropbacks this year, the consensus 136 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: top four. I watched probably half of Nicks and half 137 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: of Panics. And I could sit there and spend it. 138 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: You know, each gate tastes like four or five days. 139 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of snaps. You have to watch 140 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. You can't just zip through these 141 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 1: quarterback plays fast. And I could sit and take another 142 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: five weeks of my life and try to figure out processing. 143 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: It's not worth it for me. 144 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: To me. 145 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: If urt Water can't figure out, I'm not even gonna 146 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: bother attempting to do it. So let's get to your 147 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: quarterbacks here, Derek, and you look at the rankings, and 148 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: I feel like this class is very polarizing depending on 149 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: who you talk to. Right and first, before we start, 150 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: why don't you give the fans your stack here of 151 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: how you see these first five or six guys, and 152 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: then we'll kind of dip into it a little bit, 153 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: because I think you see them a little bit more 154 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: similar than I do, as compared to some of the 155 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: other guys we've had on the show. 156 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 157 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: So for me, the I think this class can be 158 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: broken into basically three different little tiers. The first tier 159 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: to me is Drake may and Caleb Williams. I have 160 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: Drake may Is like slightly my one A to Caleb's 161 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 2: one B, and I know that, you know, it seems 162 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: like a hot taked people. For me, it has nothing 163 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: to do with like being lower on Caleb. I think 164 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: he is as good as everybody else thinks that he is. 165 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: I just also think that Drake may Is is insanely, insanely. 166 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: Good at football. 167 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 2: You know, Drake May to me like, actually, this applies 168 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: to both of these guys. My guiding principles for quarterback play, 169 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: especially for prospects, where again that the processing is harder 170 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: to see. You gotta have like s tier arm talent, 171 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: and I think Drake and Caleb pretty easily check that box, 172 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: especially Caleb, like even the flexibility in his arm even 173 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: gives him a little something more than that Drake doesn't 174 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: quite have. And then you just want guys who are 175 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 2: very tough in the pocket, mature in the pocket, understand 176 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 2: how to make throws from tight, cluttered spaces. 177 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: I think you see that all over Caleb and Drake's film. 178 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: They were terrible, Like these guys were under pressure all 179 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: the time. And I think that's actually it's almost an 180 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: interesting thing into the way that they played, Like, you know, 181 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: people will not Caleb for oh, you know, he's doing 182 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: too much of the run around stuff, and then with 183 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: Drake it's you know, oh he's drifting in the pocket 184 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: a little too much and he runs himself into pressure. 185 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: It's like, well, they're kind of preemptively doing stuff because 186 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: they know they're going to get pressured. And so of 187 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: course when you're trying to make high risk plays like that, 188 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: sometimes they're going to be wrong and it's gonna look 189 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: stupid and Caleb is gonna leave a pocket early or 190 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: Drake is gonna drift right into a twist and get 191 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: himself pressured. But I think with those two it's like 192 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: four times out of five, they're doing the right thing, 193 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: and they're they're bailing their team out and giving their 194 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: their team a chance that you know, a normal even 195 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: even just like an above average or good college quarterback 196 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: would not give their chances. 197 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 3: In those moments. And so that's kind of the stuff. 198 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: I look at those two and I think those guys 199 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: just check those boxes with flying colors, and then just 200 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: the creativity in their game is with both of them 201 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: is phenomenal. So I am very much all in on 202 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: those guys. Either one, I would take it first overall, 203 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: wouldn't even think about it. Then I think you get 204 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: into the next year with Jayden Daniels and JJ McCarthy, 205 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: and they are more to me. You know, I think 206 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: a lot of people see them as top ten caliber players. 207 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: They're probably gonna go there, So I get it. I'm 208 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: not quite there. Those guys are more to me, you know, 209 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: back into the first early second quarterbacks that you can 210 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: win games with. I mean, these are guys like, you know, 211 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: Andy Dalton went in this range, Colin Kaepernick went in 212 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: this range, Derek Carr went in this range, Teddy Bridgewater, 213 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: like you can get functional good quarterbacks in this range. 214 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: It's just I think these are the types of guys 215 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: that are either gonna have. In JJ's case, I think 216 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: a little bit of a longer development curve. I think there's, 217 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: you know, some stuff that it's gonna take him time, 218 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: and he's a young player. There's nothing wrong with that, 219 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: or in Jane Daniels's case, I think you're gonna need 220 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: a pretty specific set of circumstances in his offense to 221 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: make him work. 222 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 3: You know, in his specific case, if he could. 223 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: Land somewhere that could like approximate what Philly is doing 224 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: just in terms of, you know, high quality offensive line, 225 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: and then the way that they've set up their offense 226 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, a ton of downfield shots, 227 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: a ton of easy quick game with ourpos doesn't have 228 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: to throw the middle of the field a lot. That 229 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: type of stuff I think would be really really useful 230 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: for him. Then you get into that third tier of 231 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 2: the you know, maybe's like the five percent chance that 232 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: they could be something. That's where you get bo Nick, Spencer, Rattler, 233 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: and Michael Pennix. Of the three, I kind of like 234 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: Nix and Rattler for obviously very very different reasons. Nicks 235 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: to me is more like, you know, I think, straight 236 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: out of the box, he's Gardner Minshew and then maybe 237 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: with a little bit of development he turns into Andy 238 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: Dalton and that doesn't sound sexy, but hey man, Andy 239 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: Dalton has made the playoffs. 240 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 3: He's he's been on good teams. 241 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: He's been on teams that have won divisions, Like if 242 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: you put enough around him, he can be a really 243 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: solid player for you. And then Spencer Ratler is just 244 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: the complete opposite, Like there's a ninety five percent chance 245 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: he just completely booms out of the league, not even 246 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: for any of the offield stuff, but like just the 247 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,239 Speaker 2: way he plays, like he probably is too aggressive. He's 248 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: not as athletic as he thinks he is, you know, 249 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: with how much he moves around the pocket, and he's 250 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: he's gonna get himself into trouble. But there's that five 251 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: percent chance you can hone it in. And he kind 252 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: of has the two things I talked about with str 253 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 2: arm talent and managing the pocket. So I'm at least 254 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: kind of bought in on him there. So I think 255 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: those three tiers are kind of like how I break 256 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 2: this quarterback class up? 257 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: All right, So let let's start the top and dig 258 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: into the Drake May a little. But I'm gonna slide 259 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: Killa Williams aside just because I think he's awesome too, 260 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: and I think so the Bears, So it's gonna be 261 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: irrelevant whether or not the Giants think he's awesome. So, 262 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: Drake May, how would you explain away. Maybe explain a 263 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: way is the wrong expression, But how would you put 264 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: into your analysis the scattershot accuracy because that's the one 265 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: thing that did jump out of me watching him. And 266 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to call him inaccurate because there's so 267 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: many throws where he just put the ball into the 268 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: smallest box in between like two or three defenders, right 269 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: on a guy's numbers, right on his hands, and he 270 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: makes great throws. So I don't think he's an inaccurate quarterback. 271 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: But he does have some throws where he sit there 272 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: and like, boy, what the hell happened on that? Did 273 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: it just slip? And is that just the mechanical thing 274 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: that you think can be smoothed out? How do you 275 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,479 Speaker 1: kind of put that into your evaluation. 276 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: I think three things are true that make this, you know, 277 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: give his film this feeling. 278 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: One of them is his fault. Two of them to 279 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 3: me are really not the first. 280 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: Like you said, his mechanics can be a little He's 281 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: going to need to get cleaned up. He has a 282 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: specifically a lower half problem where he plays with kind 283 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: of a tight bass and his footwork is a little 284 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: bit all over the place. I think you'll notice, especially 285 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: when he's moving to his right and operating to his right, 286 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: he'll swing his like entire body way too far, like 287 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: almost to the sideline. He just ends up at a 288 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: really weird tight angle to the to the receiver and 289 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: he can't get the rotation the snap that you want, 290 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: and that's going to lead to him inact here. See 291 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: So I think that is part of his issue. You know, 292 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: he's a twenty one year old, like he's coming from 293 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: an air raid offense. I think it's perfectly reasonable to 294 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 2: think that he can develop that. Obviously, you never know, 295 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: but among quarterback issues for work is one of the 296 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: more fixable ones. So I'm not like too too worried 297 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 2: about that. I think the other thing to. 298 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 3: Keep in mind with Drake may he is. 299 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 2: Like he is making really hard throws all of the time, 300 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: like from from cluttered pockets like he's throwing. He had 301 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: one of the highest ad ots you know, average depth 302 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: of target in the class. And keep in mind, like 303 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: I said, he's doing that from a lot of the time, 304 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 2: really cluttered pockets down in games, like when teams know 305 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: they're passing. 306 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 3: Like he is. 307 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: Just the degree of difficulty on a lot of his 308 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 2: throws is higher than when you watch guys like Jayden 309 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: Daniels or Bo Nicks or even JJ McCarthy, like he's 310 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: just being asked to do and kind of opting into 311 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 2: more difficult throws, and I think just naturally you're gonna have, 312 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 2: you know, more misses because of that. You know, it's 313 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 2: just it's harder to complete pass his twenty yards on 314 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: the field that it is five. The other thing that 315 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: I think is important to keep in mind with North Carolina, 316 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: this offense is like not very well ran I don't think. 317 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 2: I mean, Bryson Nesbit is like a solid tight end 318 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 2: and he I think does a good job of. 319 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 3: Being where he needs to be and doing what he 320 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 3: needs to do. 321 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: Almost every other receiver on that team was like actively 322 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: working against Drake May at the routes. 323 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: There's no reason I don't understand. 324 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: Yes, like stopping their routes or you know, they would 325 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: run a lot of like benders, you know, seam benders 326 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: in that in that offense, and they would just be 327 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: you know, snapping it off at the wrong time, like 328 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: guys in zone coverage, just not being where they need 329 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: to be. Like and because of the way that Drake 330 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: plays like he is very much a guy who is like, 331 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to fit it into this tiny 332 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: window where I think my guy's gonna be like he's 333 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: very aggressive, like Trevor Lawrence will run into trouble because 334 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 2: he tries to do this where he's like, I can 335 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: be perfect. I know where the perfect throw is. It's like, Okay, 336 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 2: that's cool, but if your receiver is not in the 337 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: right spot, then you just look like an idiot. And 338 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 2: I think that happened far too many times at North Carolina, 339 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: and I think that like warps the perception of some 340 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: of the misses that Drake may had. So those are 341 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: the three things that I think kind of fall into 342 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: why Drake Is can look in accurate in times. I 343 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 2: do agree, like, for as much as I love him, 344 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 2: he's not like, you know, super super like, he's not 345 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: going to walk into the league and be one of 346 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 2: the most accurate guys. I do think he's going to 347 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: be more in the you know, maybe Matthew Stafford where 348 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: it's like, the best throws from Matthew Stafford look great 349 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: and they're more valuable than his misses. But he does 350 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 2: have three misses a game where you're like, dude, there's 351 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: no way you missed that. 352 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: No, absolutely right. And I'll just point this out too. 353 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: He's a guy that is not one of these guys 354 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: that play quarterback their whole lives with all these private 355 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: quarterback coaches. He was a multi sport athlete. You made 356 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: the point. He's still young, Redchard sophomore. You know, people 357 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: talk about McCarthy Mayze in the same exact boat. So 358 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: I do think there is a lot of room for 359 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: him to fine tune his game going forward. All right, 360 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: let's jump to Jayden Daniels. He's my third quarterback too. 361 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: I have him. Probably I look at him a little 362 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: bit more favorably than you do Derek, only because I 363 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: think he's got a pretty high ceiling with his general accuracy, 364 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: his mobility, his ability to get the ball down the 365 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: field with touch. But I want you to dive into 366 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: a little bit more where you talked about in your 367 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: first answer, why do you think he needs that right 368 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: structure around him with the strong offensive line, which, by 369 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: the way, he had at LSU. You put Jane and 370 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: Daniels in the UNC system, he looks a whole lot 371 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: different than than than than he did at LSU, and 372 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: he's the monster wide receivers there as well. So what 373 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: are the things in your charting of Daniels, whether it's 374 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: handling pressure where he's throwing the football, that you really 375 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: want to make sure he has that infrastructure around him 376 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: to utilize those talents. 377 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'll start off. It's actually funny, you know, 378 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: you say the high ceiling thing. I actually kind of 379 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: viewhim as like a high floor prospect. Oh you know what, 380 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: I actually met. I met the high floor. That's yes, 381 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: I see him. 382 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: He has a high floor prospect because of his mobility 383 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: in is yes, correct, high floor. 384 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: I'm sorry exactly. It's those two things. Like, I mean, 385 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 2: the mobility alone is just gonna one. It's just gonna 386 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: make you more valuable out of the gate, Like you're 387 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: gonna have something to lean on when things go wrong, 388 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: and that mobility is going to give you, you know, 389 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 2: teams are gonna be more willing to let you grow 390 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: and give you more chances because you's like, Okay, if 391 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: he's not a great passer right now, at least he 392 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: can do this, you know what I mean, Like you 393 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: at least have something to fall back on. I think 394 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: that's really valuable for him. And then he is really accurate. 395 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: Like I'll talk in a minute about some of the 396 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: throws I think he just won't make. But when he 397 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: does make throws, he really is accurate. I think one 398 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 2: to ten yard area, especially when they're running, like timing 399 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: like they ran a bunch of hit raps in that offense, 400 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 2: really really good at just you know, the timing of them, 401 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: the rhythm of them putting exactly where they need to be. Obviously, 402 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: his downfield work is incredible. When he chooses to throw 403 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: the intermediate area, it looks good, especially I think outside 404 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: the numbers, like some of his touch on like sale routes, corners, 405 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: it's delightful. 406 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 3: It's really really good. 407 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: And then I think as a decision maker he can 408 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: be a little late. I think, especially when he's working backside, 409 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: things can take a little bit longer than you would like. 410 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: But he is not a quarterback who puts the ball 411 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: in harm's way. And that's you know, in general, I 412 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: would rather have a quarterback who is too aggressive and 413 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: I have to, like, you know, work him down and like, Okay, 414 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: he can do the really hard stuff and we'll get 415 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 2: him to learn the easy stuff. 416 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 3: And may my love for Drake may. 417 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 2: And Jaden is kind of the opposite right where it's 418 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 2: like he doesn't really do a lot of the super 419 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 2: hard like anticipat into a tight window, you know, make 420 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 2: a super difficult throw. But he's not a guy who's 421 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: gonna just make this Bonker's interception that you're like, dude, 422 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: what the hell was that? Like you're gonna yell at 423 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 2: him coming off the sideline. He's just he's not a 424 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: guy who's gonna do that, and he's gonna. 425 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 3: Protect the ball. 426 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: And so again, I think that kind of speaks to 427 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 2: the high floor thing, like this is a guy who's 428 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: just not gonna mess the offense up, and he has 429 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: certain traits that he can fall back on. Where I 430 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 2: get questions with Jayden Daniels is one you know you 431 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 2: already mentioned at the middle of the field. He just 432 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 2: he can make those throws. He has enough veloss heat 433 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: in his arm. The accuracy is really good. You see 434 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: enough of those glimpses on film. The problem is just 435 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: I think he kind of struggles to anticipate when windows 436 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: are going to open, especially against zone coverage. He's just 437 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: not a guy who is throwing, you know, right past 438 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 2: the ear hole of a linebacker. And I know that 439 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: sounds just like a nitpicky thing, but like that's what 440 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: the NFL is like. The college game in that sense 441 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: is different. And so I think you need guys to 442 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: have the you know, not just ability, like he has 443 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 2: to throw the middle of the field, but you got 444 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: to have the willingness and and aggression and to a 445 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 2: degree the blind faith to throw the middle of the field. 446 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: And he just I haven't seen it from his film. 447 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: And for a fifth year guy, that's a little bit concerning. 448 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 2: I'm especially a guy who again has started all out 449 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: of those seasons. You know, it's not like he was 450 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: red shirting a couple of them or whatever. 451 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 3: The other thing. That kind of you know bugs me 452 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 3: with Jadan Daniels. 453 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: And this goes back to what I said with with 454 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 2: the pocket stuff with some of the other guys I 455 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 2: like Jade and Daniels. Obviously, when when he gets pressured 456 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 2: and he has to go, great, he's a really good 457 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: athlete and he can get out there. I think he 458 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 2: struggles to keep his eyes up and and manage the 459 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: pocket and really slide around keep a firm base. 460 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: He actually ran into a lot of sacks early in 461 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: the year in my opinion. 462 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 2: Yes, especially you know the Florida State game he ran 463 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 2: into like two or three that were like, come on, buddy, 464 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: like it, I know you got I know you're better 465 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 2: than this. So he definitely does a lot of that 466 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 2: where his pocket management is just not all the way there. 467 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 2: And then you know, even when he does leave the pocket, 468 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: it is obviously valuable that he can just scramble past 469 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage and run free yards. But you 470 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: see from all of the best NFL quarterbacks when they're 471 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 2: outside the pocket, they are past first. Patrick Mahomes is 472 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 2: like this, Josh Allen learned to be like this, so granted, 473 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 2: like you can figure this out. It's you know, it's 474 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 2: not like he's completely dooming in this sense like Lamar Jackson. 475 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: You know, I think people think of Lamar as a runner, 476 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 2: no dude, Like when Lamar's out of the pocket, he 477 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: is looking to throw down the field. And Jayden is 478 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,959 Speaker 2: just more to me, like Jalen Hurts or justin fields 479 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: where when they're out of the pocket, they're thinking run first, 480 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: they're thinking how far can I go? And so that 481 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: to me is like a little bit prohibitive of like 482 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: how high you can really climb as a quarterback. So, 483 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 2: like I said, I think Jayden does some good stuff, 484 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 2: and I think it's pretty reasonable to expect him to 485 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 2: be a productive quarterback. It's just when we talk about, 486 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 2: you know, taking a guy top five with what I 487 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: think his ceiling is, it just gets hard. 488 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: You love turf, you're good at it, So you start 489 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: a turf fizz business grows, your savings grow, become the 490 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: most celebrated name in turf. 491 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: Are you ready for all that life rings? 492 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think frankly, I think Daniel Jones is one 493 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: of those guys that when he scrambles, he's kind of 494 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: looking to run rather than kind of throw on the 495 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: move a lot too, So I'm with you on that. 496 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: All right, let's go to JJ McCarthy here. What I 497 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: wonder about him, Derek, I feel with fairly high confidence 498 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: he's going to be a solid NFL quarterback because I 499 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: think he is a fairly accurate guy in those intermediate areas. 500 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: He throws a ton in the middle of the field, 501 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, Michigan just runs overs and crossers all day. 502 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: That's what half his tape is. He's pretty good on 503 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: third and seven and long. I did sort through that, 504 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: and I just watch his third and longs and he's 505 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: actually pretty good on those. I just I don't see 506 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: him though, with enough touch. His deep ball is I'm 507 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: not gonna say non existent, but it's it's darn close. 508 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: This is not a lot of that on tape. When 509 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: he does it, it either flares out of bounds or 510 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: it's very flat. And I'm just not sure I see 511 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: the path for him to becoming one of these, you know, 512 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: top seven or eight quarterbacks where I think he's gonna 513 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: be good. I'm just not well. To me, I have 514 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: a hard time selling myself at six when one of 515 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: these other wide receivers are sitting there to pick a 516 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: quarterback that I'm not sure has that same upside as 517 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: a guy like Mate or even Frankly, If a guy 518 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: like Jenna Damas can figure out to throw over the 519 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: middle and look up when he's scrambled, I think he 520 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: has that upside too. Now, he's a little more ways 521 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: to get there, but if you could figure it out, 522 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: he can get there. I have a hard time seeing 523 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: McCarthy get there. What's your view on McCarthy. Why do 524 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: you have him as more of a second round guy, 525 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: which is kind of where I have him to end 526 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: of the first round, kind of start of the second 527 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: round type of talent. 528 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with pretty much everything that you 529 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 2: said there. And he's a tricky one for me because 530 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: I think you know his arm. I'm so glad you 531 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 2: bring up the touch like I think people people project 532 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 2: onto him like this super high arm talent, and it's like, Okay, 533 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 2: he throws the ball really hard. He does like he 534 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 2: can get RPMs man, he can make that ball spin 535 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: and he can throw it very far down the field. 536 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: The problem is he's very much a thrower where when 537 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: he's getting that velocity, it takes every fiber in his 538 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: being to get there, and he really struggles to take 539 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: heat off. That's why you see, like you said, his 540 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: deep ball is very flat, like he's throwing it. He's 541 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 2: throwing like frozen ropes, which like I don't know, like 542 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 2: you need to put some air under it. Why do 543 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 2: you think Russell Wilson has one of the best deep 544 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: ball's efforts because he throws that thing into the stratosphere. 545 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 1: Like to your point, I think his accuracy does struggle 546 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: to when he gets pressure because he can't get that 547 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: full step into his throw, and that's when he can 548 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,239 Speaker 1: get a little scattershot, when he can't step into the throw, 549 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: when he has to lean back, go off his back 550 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: foot and things like that. 551 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 2: I agree, he's like it's just a kind of a 552 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: rigid thrower. This is where actually I think my comparison 553 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: for him, it's not perfect, it's not one to one, 554 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: but he's very Baker Mayfield esqu where like Baker is 555 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 2: a dude who can put a ton of velocity on 556 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 2: the ball. He can throw it into tight windows if 557 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 2: it's just like you know, a dig router like you said, 558 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 2: like an over out over the middle, where it's you know, 559 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 2: you can just throw it to the guy when he's 560 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: got to add a little touch, he's got to put 561 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 2: a little air under the ball on you know, some 562 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 2: of these sail routes, corner routes like you said, the 563 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: deep ball, like he just doesn't quite have that. And 564 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: then again I think that that's true, like you said, 565 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: under pressure, JJ's actually very tough, like he's extremely willing 566 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 2: to take those hits. He can actually move around in 567 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 2: the pocket. 568 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 3: A little bit. 569 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 2: That is part of why I have like a little 570 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: bit of faith, you know, a little bit of optimism 571 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 2: for him. It's like the pocket management is good and 572 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 2: he's tough, but like you said, if the angle is 573 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: just a little bit wrong with where he's getting pressured 574 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: or something, he just doesn't quite have the flexibility and 575 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 2: maneuverability that you see from obviously Caleb. But I think 576 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 2: to a different degree, Drake may as well. And so 577 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: that's where I get a little bit concerned with JJ. 578 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: So I do think there is stuff to like, Like 579 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: he can throw the ball really hard, you know, the 580 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 2: pocket management to pocket toughness I think is good. There 581 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 2: is a little bit of like creativity to his game. 582 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 2: Like obviously, because Michigan threw like twenty four times a game, 583 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 2: you didn't get to see him do a ton of 584 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 2: stuff outside the pocket and making plays, but he can 585 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 2: do it. Like, I think there's enough there and he's 586 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 2: a good enough athlete that you'll probably get in the 587 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: NFL one or two plays a game where the defense 588 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: just comes away thinking like Jesus, how did he pull 589 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: that off? 590 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: And it where he's running towards the line of scrimmage, 591 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: the defense think he's he's gonna run, and then well, 592 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: he's almost running full speed forward. He throws this dart 593 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: over the middle. I'm like, all right, that's pretty good. 594 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And like that, that's if you can get exactly 595 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 2: that's a great point where like when you are really 596 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: selling the fact that you're about to run and a 597 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: half yard before the line of scrimmage, you just rip 598 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 2: it fifteen yards down the field. Hard to defend. Man, 599 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 2: And he's got that in his bag. And so I 600 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: do think there is enough optimism to see why JJ 601 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 2: would work to your point, like he can probably get 602 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 2: into that you know, twelve to eighteen range pretty reasonably. 603 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: But I'm kind of with you where it's like, man, 604 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: it would take three four years of a lot of development, 605 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: I think to get him into the top six, top 606 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 2: seven where he's just you know, a consistent conference championship 607 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 2: type of quarterbacks. So I still like and again, that's 608 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 2: a good quarterback, right, like that, that's a valuable guy 609 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: to have. 610 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: Is that one you want to take you fourth? Overall? 611 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 3: I don't know, you're betting on a lot of projection. 612 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: If you're the Broncos sticking and picking, that's fine, But 613 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: then but they're not gonna be able to stick in 614 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: picking a Jjilcaudey, which is the problem. Now I'm with 615 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: the one hundred percent. You're already talked about bon Nicks 616 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: a little bit. I think you did do something now 617 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: on him. Same thing with Rattler. You kind of Penix 618 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: is I think he's your sixth rinth quarterback right that 619 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. 620 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 3: It's seventh. I like Rattler a little bit more even seventh. 621 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, right, Rattler's in there too. So I have 622 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: people here that not in the building, but fans that 623 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: yell at me for why aren't you talking about Pennix 624 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: at six? And my argument is twofold? And then I'll 625 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: give have you give your take one. I know his 626 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: numbers when you sort through all these different sorting systems 627 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: against pressure are good. I get it. I don't like 628 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: the way he plays against pressure. There's a lot of 629 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: like leaning backwards and flicking the ball and I'm not 630 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: gonna say he looks panicked, but he doesn't look comfortable 631 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: back there when he gets pressure in his face. And 632 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: that's in front of an offensive line that was one 633 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: of the best in college football. So that's the first 634 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: thing for me. I know he tested well. I don't 635 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: think he's very functional as an athlete like he doesn't 636 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: move side the sidewall and evade rush. He has little 637 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: steps he can do. But again, when the offensive line 638 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: is not as good, I worry about it. The second thing, 639 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: and this is what I really get heat on from people, 640 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: and we talk about in the middle of the field stuff. 641 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: I do not think he's as accurate as people think 642 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: he is. He makes a lot of good downfield passes, 643 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: there's just as many passes that are in the middle 644 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: field and even deep where he's putting it behind guys 645 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: where if he puts it in front of him, you 646 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: know where it's supposed to be, you can get another 647 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty yards out of the play. Now, he's lucky 648 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: to play with three receivers that are awesome and can 649 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: adjust and still make these catches. But I don't feel 650 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: he has that pinpoint accuracy to hit guys in stride consistently, 651 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: especially in the intermediate areas that other people do. And 652 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: that's why I have him Again, I have more of 653 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: a second round grade on penis where if the Giants 654 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: are sitting at forty seven or forty nine, like all right, 655 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: you see these high end armed trialing you throw down 656 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: the feel cool. I'm good rolling the dice there. You 657 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: want to get another quarterback in the building. Now, I 658 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: just basically filibustered, but it'll give me your take on 659 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: Penis and and kind of your thoughts on the player 660 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: and why you have him as quarterback seven for you. 661 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 3: I mean basically the same stuff. 662 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 2: I think the pressure one is a good place to 663 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 2: start again, Like you can look at some of his 664 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: the overall production under pressure and it looks good, but 665 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, his response to pressure is I'm either 666 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 2: gonna throw the ball away or I'm gonna throw it 667 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 2: up to my receiver who's about to go seventh. 668 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 3: Overall or whatever. 669 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: And it's like okay, like that's that is something, But 670 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: it's in the NFL. 671 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 3: It's not gonna be that simple. You're gonna have to 672 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 3: have a lot more. 673 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 2: I mean that's why I think you see guys like 674 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 2: Caleb and Drake and even to different degrees, Jade Daniels 675 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 2: and JJ McCarthy, like, to one degree or another, when 676 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 2: they get pressured, they can do something. Is it perfect, 677 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 2: I don't know, but they can do something. And Michael 678 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 2: Pennix to me, just doesn't have that. Like to your point, 679 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: he's he's very much a thrower who he means backed 680 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 2: a lot, or he just doesn't have answers to get 681 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:02,959 Speaker 2: outside the pocket. 682 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 3: He I think his. 683 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 2: Scramble rate was like lower than one percent or around 684 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 2: one percent. Like that's just in the NFL, that's just 685 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: not gonna fly man like in the in nineteen eighty maybe, 686 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: but like today, that's just there's no shot. And then 687 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 2: to your point about accuracy, I think that is absolutely 688 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: spot on. Like so in my accuracy charting, Michael Pennix was, 689 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: let me find it real quick, Okay, sixty six point 690 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: three percent overall adjusted accuracy. And when I say adjusted, 691 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 2: I like score it a little differently just based on 692 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: like the yardage ranges on the field and stuff. That 693 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 2: is worse than all of the other quarterbacks that we've 694 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: talked about, except for Spencer Rattler. Spencer Ratler is is 695 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: that about the same range, but it's much worse in Bonux, 696 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: It's much worse than Jayden Daniels. It's worse than Drake May, 697 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: it's worse than JJ McCarthy, it's worse than Caleb Williams. 698 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 3: On its face, that's not great. 699 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: It's a lot worse When you consider again, like you said, 700 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 2: three top sixty picks at receiver, probably a couple of 701 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: guys tight end who are going to get looks in 702 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 2: the NFL, an NFL offensive line. You know, Troy Foughton, 703 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: he was probably gonna go top fifteen, his right tackle 704 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 2: is going to go in the top two rounds. 705 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 3: Like you had about. 706 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: As much as you could get in terms of I mean, 707 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: his head coach just went to go replace Nick Saban, 708 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 2: his offensive coordinator just went to go be the coordinator. 709 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 3: The Seattle Seahawks. Like he had. 710 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: Everything you could want and still just not an accurate passer. 711 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 2: And the numbers there are concerning, And then when you 712 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: watch him you just don't see it. I think, especially 713 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: in the one to ten yard area, he just doesn't 714 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 2: have that timing, that rhythm, that flexibility to throw the 715 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: one to ten yard area very well. And I think 716 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 2: that that's a big hindrance for him. But like I said, 717 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 2: you know, when I was talking about the Washington offense earlier, 718 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: they just didn't have to do it because they were 719 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: so good at other stuff. So it was like whatever, 720 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: you just don't have to interface with that problem. The 721 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 2: other thing is I really struggle with touch with him, 722 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 2: I just don't think he has it very much. I 723 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 2: think you see when he's trying to throw some of 724 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: these corner routes, some of these sail routes, if somebody 725 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: he undercutting the route and he's got to put some 726 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 2: air under it, he just really struggles to, I think, 727 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: get the ball up and down. You even see that 728 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 2: on some of the deep over routes in their in 729 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 2: their offense, like if a guy is playing like trailman 730 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 2: coverage and he's a little bit under the route, Pennix 731 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: just really struggles to, I think, get the ball up 732 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: and down and give his guy a chance. So he's 733 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: very good at throwing like directly to a spot, but 734 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 2: you got to have way more clubs in your bag 735 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 2: in the NFL, and I just I really struggle to 736 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 2: see it. And for me, it's really concerning for a 737 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: guy who is, you know, gonna be twenty four years old, 738 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 2: has played no obviously he's been on and off for injuries, 739 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 2: but like he's effectively started for five or six seasons, 740 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: so you would you would think you would have a 741 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 2: little bit more at this point, and I just don't 742 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 2: quite see it yet. 743 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: And the strength says of his game is supposed to 744 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: be him being a pocket passer that can get the 745 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: ball downfield. So Derek, I'm with you. I think we're 746 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: very much in line here, the two guys that watched 747 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: a ton of these snaps, and I'm happy that we 748 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: see things kind of the same way. JOHNS. Huttle has 749 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the 750 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: Giants from game data. Every day. Citizens is made ready 751 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: for Giant fans with insides, guy and solutions. Learn more 752 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: at citizens bank dot com. All right, let's shove to 753 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: the wide receivers here. Marvin Harrison's awesome. We both agree 754 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: six ' four guy that runs like the six foot 755 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: guy is an unbelievable route runner or catches contested balls. 756 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: Maybe not the most explosive with the ball in his hands, 757 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: but I mean, I just think he's a machine at 758 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: wide receiver. Derek, you don't have to spend a long 759 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: time on him because he's not getting to the Giants 760 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: more likely than not. But he is your number one guy. 761 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, with a bullet Like you know, we'll talk 762 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 2: about the other guys, and they're great. I love Romandinze. 763 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: I love the leak neighbors. Marvin is like one of 764 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: one man. This guy is crazy, Like you said, six ' 765 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 2: four almost two hundred pounds, moves like a guy who 766 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 2: is is six foot like he he has the route 767 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 2: running ability of like I don't know, Stefan Diggs obviously 768 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 2: incredible route runner. But but to your point, Stefan Diggs 769 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 2: is like six foot one ninety five, right, but Marvin 770 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 2: is is sixty four to two hundred pounds. I mean, 771 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: he's just as fast, just as fluid, just as like 772 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 2: explosive as a route runner. What also is really really 773 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 2: incredible about Mark. He's so he's open all the time 774 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 2: with his right running, but even when he's not, the 775 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 2: ball tracking in hands are just like holy smokes, dude. 776 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: And he's not like you know, the bullying people the 777 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 2: way that you know Brandon Marshall or you know, maybe 778 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 2: Drake London, but just there's this gracefulness to the way 779 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 2: that he finds the ball and just plucks it out 780 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 2: of the air like there's no if it's within an 781 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 2: arm blank, he can find it. 782 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 3: No matter where it is, He's gonna find it with ease. 783 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: And I think that's just unbelievably valuable, especially if you're 784 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: gonna pair him with, you know, one of these other 785 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 2: franchise quarterbacks. So I yeah, he's just I could gush 786 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 2: about him forever. He's he's such a phenomenal prospect. 787 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, in late hands too, doesn't he brings he hands 788 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: up weight to make the catch. Us of corners don't 789 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: know the balls come and all all that stuff. He's 790 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: just so nuanced. You could tell that his dad was 791 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: one of the most technical wide receivers of all time. 792 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: And you really can. All right now, I find it 793 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: interesting because everyone has these two guys close and understandably 794 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: sow I like the League Nahmers a little bit more 795 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 1: than a dune day because he explosi him that you 796 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: have literally have them like as close up with the 797 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: great as you possibly can next to each other, but 798 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: you have a do, say, a little bit higher than Neighbors. 799 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 2: Tell me why, Yeah, I mean again, it's almost like 800 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: my my Drake and Caleb thing. It's like, I think 801 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 2: Neighbors is fantastic the way that everyone else does. I 802 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: think the difference between the two between Rome and the 803 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 2: League Neighbors is Neighbors to me is almost. 804 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 3: More in like the. 805 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 2: You know, Jalen Wattle Amari Cooper where it's like, this 806 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: is not purely an outside receiver. This is like a 807 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: slot Z hybrid. We are playing him to get the 808 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 2: ball in his hands. He is not a you know, 809 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 2: contested catch guy. He's not necessarily outside the numbers guy. 810 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: He can't do it, but he is not like you're 811 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: set it and forget it put him at X type 812 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: of agree that there's gonna take a little bit more. 813 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: You got to think about what you want to do 814 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 2: with him in the offense. And that's not bad. Like, 815 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 2: there are plenty of the best receivers in the NFL 816 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 2: who are in that role, like Ceedee Lamb is not 817 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 2: a set it and forget it outside receiver Cooper Cup obviously, 818 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: Amon Ross, Saint Brown again, Jalen Wattle, Like there are 819 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 2: great receivers who can fit into this role. It's just 820 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: that for me, when I think I'm picking at the 821 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 2: top five receiver, I'm gonna a little bit lean towards 822 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: the guy. Like if I'm basically splitting hairs the way 823 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 2: I am with these two, I'm probably just gonna prefer 824 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: the guy who is a set it and forget it 825 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 2: ex receiver, And that to me is Ramadunze, like that guy. 826 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: You just put him outside the numbers in any offense 827 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 2: and he's getting a thousand yards like he just I 828 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 2: think he's a phenomenal route runner for his size. I 829 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: think the ball skills are just bonkers. Like if there's 830 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 2: any trait that any of these guys have that is 831 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 2: actually close to Marvin, it's Roman Dunde's ball skills, Like 832 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 2: just the way that he can find the ball, the 833 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: way that he can fight for it in the air. 834 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 2: He times all of his jumpswell you know, late hands 835 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 2: like you were saying with Marvin, Like he just it's 836 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 2: unbelievable what he can do finding the ball. And then 837 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: he's I think an underrated athlete, Like I think because 838 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 2: he moves so smooth, and then I think because he 839 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 2: had so many of those contested catches, we're just like 840 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: underrating how fast he is. Like he's actually like he 841 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 2: gets down the field really well and he separates really cleanly. 842 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 2: It's almost like you remember a couple of years ago 843 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 2: when people didn't think Drake London could separate and it 844 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 2: was just like his quarterbacks just were throwing him closed 845 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:04,919 Speaker 2: all the time. 846 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: By the way, Evil Jamar Chase people had that war 847 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: with two where he didn't have a ton of separation 848 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: on some of those deep routes. 849 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 2: One hundred percent, And it feels more like that than 850 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,879 Speaker 2: it does a Laquon tread Well or whatever, where it's 851 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 2: like this guy actually just can't run away from people. 852 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: And so that's why I'm just super bought in on 853 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 2: Roma Dune's and the last thing I'll say too, So 854 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 2: I put my grade on those two receivers initially, and 855 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 2: I actually had Molik Neighbors a little bit higher, and 856 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 2: then Roma Dune say slightly behind him. 857 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: But then it was after. 858 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 2: I charted each of their quarterbacks that I kind of 859 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 2: started to fall in love with Rome because it just 860 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 2: kind of gave me a different perspective where it's like, 861 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 2: when I'm obviously I didn't think any less of Neighbors 862 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 2: when I was watching did Jane Daniels, but when I 863 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 2: was watching Panix, it just every play Rome is right 864 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,919 Speaker 2: where he needs to be, making crazy plays all the time, 865 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 2: and it's just like he kind of just creeps up 866 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 2: on you. You're like, man, this dude is never making 867 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 2: a bad play, and I just I kind of felt 868 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 2: in love with that. 869 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's funny. Dunesday is the type 870 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: of guy that I have trouble with sometimes because I 871 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: do wonder against that, you know, really high caliber NFL 872 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: cornerback athletes, man to man coverage, bump and run, can 873 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: he get enough separation with Then I watch him and 874 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: it's like he only needs to get a little bit 875 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: with his ball skills and his size and his strength. 876 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 1: It's like he knows I need to get this amount 877 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: of separation to get for his version of open and 878 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: make catches. So I'm trying to constantly battle myself, not 879 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: expecting a guy of that size and weight with that 880 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: type of strength to be able to separate like these 881 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: smaller receivers. But it's something that I constantly have to 882 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: find myself on. 883 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 2: I mean, then that's fair, but that is a great 884 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 2: point like his You know, what is good separation for 885 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 2: Roma Dunze is different than what is good separation for 886 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 2: like Jalen Wattle, because like he's not gonna be as 887 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 2: good making those catches with a quarterback with a corner 888 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 2: draped over him. 889 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,720 Speaker 3: So he's he needs another half step. Where's Roma dunsay? 890 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, to your point, he has a little bit of 891 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 2: a flexibility to not necessarily need it, even though I 892 00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 2: think he can get it. 893 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: All right, So let's let's put you in the Giant choes. Obviously, 894 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: if somehow Drake May's available at six or even a 895 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 1: trade up to three or four, you think that would 896 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: make sense for them, correct, given your love for the player. 897 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: Oh, I'd do it faster than they even realize. It's possible, 898 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 2: Like I card would be in so fast. 899 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: All right. Now, now here's the difference. Let's say that 900 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: target would be JJ McCarthy or even for you with 901 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: Jayden Daniels. Given the importance of the quarterback position, would 902 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: you pull the trigger on that or would you just 903 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: settle it and say, nope, Lage neighbors are only Duon's 904 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: they are awesome. I'm just gonna pick one of those 905 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: two wide receivers and figure out quarterback later. 906 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 2: It's always tough because, like you know, it is the 907 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 2: thing of like if you hit on the quarterback, it 908 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: is more valuable than any other player. Like you could 909 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: you could draft the Vontae Adams at six to overall, 910 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 2: and it would not be as valuable as having the 911 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 2: you know, eighth best quarterback. 912 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 3: If that's what Jaden or JJ McCom correct. 913 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: I just I think it's such a steep price for 914 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 2: those two players, especially if they were to have to 915 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 2: trade up to four, but even at six, for me, 916 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: I think it's a little rich where it's like I 917 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: just look at guys like Rome and Neighbors, where I'm 918 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 2: just like, especially Rome, like Neighbors, I think actually has 919 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 2: a higher ceiling than Odunsea. But like Rome, it's just 920 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: like I would be stunned if he's anything less than 921 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 2: like a nine hundred yard receiver, Like just absolutely flabbergasted. 922 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 2: I would love to take that at sixth overall, especially 923 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 2: especially the thing I'll say about that too. A Dunza 924 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 2: to me fits more of like what the giants are missing, 925 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 2: Like they don't have this just like X outside the numbers, 926 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 2: go make contested catch this guy, Whereas like Neighbors, they 927 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 2: have guys who fit that role obviously that are not 928 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: nearly as good as Malik Neighbors, but at least kind 929 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 2: of can fit into what he does. Where it's like 930 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 2: a Dunsay is like they just don't have a guy 931 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 2: like that. 932 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Odunjay makes one No Ramson a better 933 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 1: slot player. He makes Jalen High at a better speed player. 934 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think not that Neighbors would be 935 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 1: a bad fit. And that's where I actually struggle with it, 936 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: because I think Adunsay is a better fit for what 937 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: they have, even though I like Neighbors slightly more. And 938 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: everything you hear about a Dounsay is a guy just 939 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: tells you he's going to be like a captain within 940 00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: a year and he's going to be a leader in 941 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: that locker room. So it's just funny how you look 942 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: at it. All right, Let's go a couple of the 943 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: wide receivers deep, because I feel like I love how 944 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: you have some of these guys' rank. It's a little 945 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: bit different. We have not had a lot of key 946 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: On Coleman love on our shows here. I'm not a 947 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: big Coleman guy. Of him as the second round player, 948 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: you of him as your wide receiver five, So tell 949 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: me why. And again I told you, I struggle with 950 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: these type of guys that don't separate, right, So it 951 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: makes sense why I would have him lower. Why do 952 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: you why are you still a key On Coleman believer? 953 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's almost funny you say that. 954 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 2: You know you kind of struggle with with guys who 955 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 2: don't separate, And I totally get that. I tend to 956 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 2: fall in love with guys who just catch the frickin' ball. Man, 957 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 2: Like I just after charting so many quarterbacks of guys 958 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 2: just being in the wrong spot, can't adjust to the ball. 959 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 2: All that stuff, Coleman to me just like, I mean, 960 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 2: he's built like a true X receiver, you know, he's 961 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 2: like six four two fifteen or something, just built like 962 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:48,959 Speaker 2: a guy who can go get the ball. I think 963 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 2: like making those in the air acrobatic contested catches he has. 964 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 2: If you just pulled the five best clips of any 965 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 2: receiver in this class, he might have the five best. 966 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 2: Like his just disgusting when he's dunking on a guy, 967 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 2: and I think that that's super valuable. But then even 968 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 2: over the middle, like he's made some really tough catches 969 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 2: in traffic and stuff, and that's just something to me 970 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 2: that I think is pretty valuable. I agree that as 971 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 2: a as a separator, especially down the field, you know, 972 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 2: he probably has average speed and then his separation ability, 973 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 2: you know, I think at Michigan State he actually looked 974 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,359 Speaker 2: a lot more explosive and snappy as a route runner than. 975 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: He ever goes back and watched it, not watched his 976 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: Michigan State stuff. I'll go back and look at that 977 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: this week. 978 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I fell in love with him at Michigan State, 979 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 2: and so maybe I'm still like over, you know, putting 980 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 2: too many eggs in the basket of what he was 981 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: at Michigan State. 982 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 3: But I just thought he was a little bit more. 983 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 2: Snappy than a little bit better of a route Runner's 984 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 2: still not like a great separator, but good enough for 985 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 2: his size to be in the Brandon Marshall type of 986 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 2: you know thing. And then I just think with the 987 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 2: ball in his hands, he is again he doesn't have 988 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 2: that elite long speed where he's just gonna break away 989 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 2: from guys. But in terms of turning a you know, 990 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 2: a five yard hitch into fifteen, man, he's got it. 991 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 2: Like he just instantly turns into a running back, really powerful, 992 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 2: explosive movie, great balance. I think he's got that vision 993 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 2: that you want, you know, heat. To me is just 994 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 2: I think I agree, you know, in terms of if 995 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 2: you're swinging for the ceiling, he just doesn't have the 996 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 2: long speed to really be that. But to me, as 997 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 2: a guy, you can just set up on the outside 998 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 2: and be a really consistent presence and give you some 999 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 2: really good, tough physical yards after the catch. To me, 1000 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 2: he's got it, and that's just that's the type of 1001 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 2: player I like to fall in love it. He to 1002 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 2: me feels a lot like you know. Again, maybe he 1003 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 2: doesn't raise the ceiling of your offense, but he, to me, 1004 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 2: I think, just does a lot of stuff that like 1005 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,720 Speaker 2: gives you some some meat and bones to the offense, 1006 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: which I think is really valuable. 1007 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: It's always nice to be another member of the Jalen 1008 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:35,879 Speaker 1: McMillan fan club. 1009 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 3: By the way, you are a great player. 1010 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: He is your wide receiver sex And then, by the way, 1011 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: you have eleven wide receivers that all have grades within 1012 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: like three tenths of a point on one another. Based 1013 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: on what I'm seeing here a real quick maybe it's 1014 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: fourth tens of a point. But I'm more than happy 1015 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,919 Speaker 1: to have somebody else rave about why they love Jalen 1016 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: McMillan so much. Then you know Jalen Polk right next 1017 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: to him, right, So the two good wide receivers, but 1018 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: they're so so different. 1019 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell I'll start with McMillan. 1020 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 2: You know, McMillan kind of goes into the I really 1021 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 2: fall in love with these these receivers who just do 1022 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 2: the right thing, like b where you're supposed to be 1023 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 2: at the time that you're supposed to be there and 1024 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 2: catch the ball. And man McMillan is is, I mean, 1025 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 2: one of the best at that in this class. He 1026 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 2: Washington mostly played from the spot, from the slot. I 1027 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 2: actually think in the NFL he can play more outside. 1028 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 2: It's just that when they had Roma Dunza and Jalen 1029 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 2: Polky Washington, it's like, well, somebody has to play from 1030 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,880 Speaker 2: the slot, and they just shows it to be Jalen McMillan. 1031 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 2: It's very similar to how I think, you know, Justin 1032 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 2: Jefferson got pigeonholed into the slot at LSU. Obviously I 1033 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 2: don't think he's as good as Jefferson, but it's just 1034 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,839 Speaker 2: that type of problem that they had at Washington. Very 1035 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 2: good problem to have. But you just watch McMillan and 1036 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 2: it's just like man against zone coverage. He always knows 1037 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 2: how to uncover himself against man coverage. I think he's 1038 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 2: a very snappy, detailed route runner, just a guy who 1039 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 2: buys himself that extra half step at the top of 1040 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,919 Speaker 2: a route, like just the guy who makes himself very 1041 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 2: quarterback friendly. And then to that point, I think just 1042 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 2: as much as Roman Dunsday, Jalen McMillan made Michael Pennix 1043 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 2: look more accurate than he is, Like just some of 1044 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,479 Speaker 2: those throws over the middle or in the short area 1045 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,760 Speaker 2: where he is just snagging a ball just outside his frame, 1046 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 2: maybe going to his knees to grab a ball, Like 1047 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 2: he just has that adaptability to find the ball no 1048 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 2: matter what. And he's really tough, like just very willing 1049 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 2: to make those catches over the middle of the field. 1050 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 2: So he to me is just maybe with the ball 1051 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 2: in his hands. He's not the most sexy guy, you know, 1052 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,320 Speaker 2: kind of like last year we did this with Jackson 1053 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 2: Smith and Jigba. You know, we're with the ball, he's 1054 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 2: not all that explosive, but everything else, just a guy 1055 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 2: who is going to give you really consistent production and 1056 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 2: I just like that a lot from him. 1057 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: Then you have a lot of the same names that 1058 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: we all do kind of in that high mid second 1059 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,359 Speaker 1: round type of area. The Xavier Worthys, the Lad mcconkey's, 1060 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: all these guys we've talked about. One guy that we 1061 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: haven't talked a bunch about I know you're a big 1062 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: fan of his. I'll give you a chance to talk 1063 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: about him. And there's off the field stuff. We understand that, 1064 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: But in terms of on field, Jermaine Barton, tell me 1065 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: why he should be a second round. 1066 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 3: Pick, dude. 1067 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 2: If that's the thing that the off field stuff seems 1068 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 2: to be not very good. You know, when you end 1069 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 2: up getting pushed out of Georgia and then even at Alabama, 1070 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 2: they're not like fully leaning into you. 1071 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,240 Speaker 3: As the player that you are. That's a little bit concerning. 1072 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,919 Speaker 2: But I think if you like purely didn't know any 1073 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 2: of that and you just watched what he is as 1074 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 2: a receiver, I would have even had like a top 1075 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 2: forty grade on him, like. 1076 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,919 Speaker 3: He is just one. 1077 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 2: His deep speed is not like special, but it's very good. 1078 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 2: It's like, you know, Doug Baldwin esqu where it's like, Okay, 1079 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 2: this guy can very clearly separate from people. It's not 1080 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 2: Deshaun Jackson, but he can very clearly burn people down 1081 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 2: the field. As a route runner, I think he is 1082 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 2: super snappy. There are a couple of times where he 1083 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 2: can run his routes a little bit upright, and he'll 1084 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 2: get you know, stuck at the top of them. But 1085 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,399 Speaker 2: I think in general he's a very snappy, explosive route runner, 1086 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 2: very detailed in the way that he just knows how 1087 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 2: to toy with defenders. He understands when and why they 1088 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,280 Speaker 2: want to open their hips with certain coverages and stuff 1089 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,879 Speaker 2: like that. I think he does a really good job 1090 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 2: with that. And then due the ball skills, Holy smokes, 1091 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 2: he is so just he knows how to find the ball, 1092 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 2: you know, very natural, like extending his hands away from 1093 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 2: his frame. He's very confident in the way that he 1094 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 2: attacks the ball. And then just on the sideline some 1095 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 2: of the acrobatics he can make and like somehow get 1096 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 2: his feet down. It's like Jesus Man like he is 1097 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 2: already doing like the you know, five year NFL VET 1098 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 2: type of stuff with just understanding space and understanding how 1099 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 2: to finish plays. So he, to me is a guy 1100 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 2: who I think off field stuff with standing could walk 1101 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 2: in and be a very good number two, like almost. 1102 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 3: Immediately, like just a very polished, explosive player. You're ready 1103 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:33,280 Speaker 3: for a change. 1104 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,240 Speaker 2: Pay day comes early with citizens, so go to that retreat. 1105 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 2: Knew you move to the country now you're raising goats 1106 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 2: and launching a lifestyle brand. 1107 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: Are you ready for all. 1108 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 2: That life brings? 1109 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: You got time for two more receivers and running backs? 1110 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,840 Speaker 3: Derek, absolutely awesome. 1111 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: All right, You're not as signing Troy Franklin as I am. 1112 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: I think Troy Franklin is fast. I think for a 1113 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: guy that of his length, breaks off routes very very well. 1114 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,400 Speaker 1: He catches deep balls, He's number one receiver in his program, 1115 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,960 Speaker 1: high target share, all that stuff. But you have him 1116 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: kind of towards the back end of that stack we 1117 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: talked about, I have him towards the top end of 1118 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 1: that stack for me? What are some of the red 1119 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: flags for you with Troy Franklin. 1120 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 2: You know, it's funny when when I first rated Franklin, 1121 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 2: initially I kind of did have him closer to the 1122 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 2: top of the stack. But then it was kind of 1123 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 2: what I was talking about earlier where I started charting 1124 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 2: bow Nicks. He just it felt like I noticed the 1125 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 2: bad place more maybe like I noticed I think Franklin specifically, 1126 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,359 Speaker 2: he really struggles when you get hands on him. I mean, 1127 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 2: he's one hundred and like seventy eight pounds at like 1128 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 2: six y two or whatever, like He's just a very 1129 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,279 Speaker 2: wiry string being type of build, and so it's not 1130 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 2: surprising that when you get hands on him, he just 1131 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 2: doesn't have answers. And I think that's both true at 1132 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage and then even deeper on routes 1133 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 2: like if he's running like a you know, twelve yard 1134 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 2: stop route and you know, a lot of the best 1135 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,319 Speaker 2: guys like Rumma Dunes, if you see him run this, 1136 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,839 Speaker 2: he'll stop and he'll just at that last step kind 1137 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 2: of explode, push off, get himself that yard of separation. 1138 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 2: Franklin just that's not in his back because he just 1139 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 2: is never gonna have the weight or explosiveness to push 1140 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 2: off of guys that way. 1141 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 3: And so I think that that's an issue. 1142 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 2: I think he just doesn't really have that contested catch 1143 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 2: type of stuff for basically the same reason like I 1144 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 2: think I think people got to remember, like when you 1145 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 2: go up for a ball in the air, you're not 1146 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 2: just fighting the air, like you know, it's not just 1147 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 2: like how explosive are you. You're fighting the corner, like 1148 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 2: you've got to get through whatever weight he's putting against you. 1149 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,879 Speaker 2: I just struggle to see that with Franklin. And then 1150 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 2: to me, he has really good flashes of deep ball tracking. 1151 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 2: But I noticed a little bit too, like if he 1152 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 2: is a little bit contested and like the corner is 1153 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 2: really step for step with him. 1154 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 3: He kind of loses sight of it a little bit. 1155 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 2: And so obviously there are instances where he's just so 1156 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 2: fast that that's never going to come into play and 1157 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 2: he just this three yards past the guy anyway, But 1158 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 2: I did think that that was a little bit of 1159 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,959 Speaker 2: an issue. So to me, Franklin falls into the more 1160 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 2: like I think as your number two, who is like 1161 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,439 Speaker 2: a speed Z type of guy, I think he could 1162 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 2: be kind of nice like I Actually, I think in 1163 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 2: a lot of ways, I think he could be used 1164 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 2: a lot like Darius Slayton has been used in New York, 1165 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 2: where he's very much just a vertical guy, kind of inconsistent. 1166 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,279 Speaker 3: But you know, the best plays are really good. 1167 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,080 Speaker 2: It's just that that type of receiver should not be 1168 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 2: your best receiver, and I think the Giants have learned that. 1169 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,879 Speaker 1: No, I think that's fair. I'm with you, all right. 1170 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: Last guy who fascinates me, and this is maybe a 1171 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 1: water conversation, how would you use Johnny Wilson? Is he 1172 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,279 Speaker 1: tested a lot better than I thought he would. At 1173 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,480 Speaker 1: the combine, he catches everything, he's long. I think he's 1174 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,319 Speaker 1: a pretty good route runner. But we haven't really seen 1175 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 1: a wide receiver look or move like that guy at 1176 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: that size, So how would you just use him in 1177 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: an offense? 1178 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 2: Honestly, I think you just got to treat him like 1179 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 2: a traditional vertical X receiver, like a you know, an 1180 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 2: AJ Green or something like that. Obviously it's not super 1181 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,399 Speaker 2: similar body types, but like I'm kind of with you, 1182 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 2: Like when you look at Johnny Wilson or like when 1183 00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 2: you're just going into his film, you know, you look 1184 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,319 Speaker 2: at his measurable he's like six seven two forty, it's like, 1185 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 2: oh Jesus, this guy's not This guy's gonna be a tree. 1186 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 2: He's not gonna be able to move. And then you 1187 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,440 Speaker 2: look at him on the field the first snap and 1188 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 2: you're like, oh my Christ, there's no way this guy 1189 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 2: is gonna be able to move. But then you watch 1190 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 2: it run like ten routes and you're like, wait a minute, 1191 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 2: Like he like, there are obviously times because he's so 1192 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 2: big and lanky that he can't like fully throttle down 1193 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 2: and it takes him a couple of steps. 1194 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 1: But which is not surprising. He's he's six eight. 1195 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,359 Speaker 2: Exactly like at a certain point, your body is what 1196 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,920 Speaker 2: it is. But I think he still moves like fairly 1197 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 2: well for that size. He's very nimble, very agile for 1198 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,320 Speaker 2: that size. And then to your point about long striding, 1199 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,840 Speaker 2: like it takes him a couple of seconds to get going, 1200 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 2: but when he's really running on like go balls and 1201 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 2: posts and stuff, he can get moving. Dude, Like he 1202 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,719 Speaker 2: can actually pull away from people. It's pretty surprising. So 1203 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,479 Speaker 2: I've actually kind of liked what I've seen from Johnny Wilson. Again, 1204 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,520 Speaker 2: my grade isn't super high because again to your point, 1205 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 2: there's just not guys who look like this, So it's 1206 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,919 Speaker 2: hard to find like a thing in my mind where 1207 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 2: it's like I know, this is what it can look like, 1208 00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:58,920 Speaker 2: So you kind of have to do some guesswork, but 1209 00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,640 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think they're is a world where 1210 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,279 Speaker 2: he could just be a traditional X receiver and be 1211 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 2: a really good vertical presence, running a lot of like 1212 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 2: go balls, stop routes, some of your comebacks, like you know, 1213 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,000 Speaker 2: deeper out routside type of stuff. I think he could 1214 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 2: be that type of receiver, you know, a place like 1215 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 2: Buffalo where they really need a guy like that. I 1216 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 2: think that would be super cool ending spots, so very 1217 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,400 Speaker 2: intriguing prospect. I liked him again, like kind of like 1218 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:22,799 Speaker 2: you said, I liked them more than I thought I 1219 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 2: was going to just based on what he looks like. 1220 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 1: Giant fans level winner. It's why they love. Citizens named 1221 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: a twenty twenty two best bank in the US. Buy 1222 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 1: the banker as the official bank of the Giants and 1223 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: sponsor of the Huddle, Citizens is made ready for fans 1224 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,560 Speaker 1: of Big Blue. Learn more at Citizens bank dot com. 1225 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 1: All right, Derek, let's get into the running backs here, 1226 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,840 Speaker 1: and I'll start very simply. When should the first running 1227 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:43,800 Speaker 1: back get picked? And who should it be? 1228 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 2: That's such a complicated question. I think for sure we 1229 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 2: are not getting anyone in the first round. I think 1230 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 2: we probably won't get anyone until, you know, maybe the yeah, 1231 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,399 Speaker 2: the mid to late second. Like if I had set 1232 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,040 Speaker 2: the over under, it would be like forty nine and 1233 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 2: a half basically, and I don't. That's not based on 1234 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,120 Speaker 2: exactly who picks it. That's just like general range. But yeah, 1235 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,799 Speaker 2: it would probably be like a round pick fifty. I 1236 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,400 Speaker 2: think the most likely candidates are probably going to be 1237 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,600 Speaker 2: like Jonathan Brooks, you know, maybe a Drake Blake Koram, 1238 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 2: maybe a Trey Benson me personally, and I know that 1239 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,840 Speaker 2: this sounds crazy based on what he ran his combine. 1240 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,239 Speaker 2: I love Audric estime. I think he is just an 1241 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,239 Speaker 2: unbelievable player. And you know, he ran four seventh to the 1242 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,279 Speaker 2: combine and that's gonna scare a lot of people. You 1243 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 2: watch his film, that is not a four cents. 1244 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,919 Speaker 1: I don't know, sudden for a guy that big, he's 1245 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,320 Speaker 1: a sudden mover. I was pretty impressed by his quickness, 1246 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 1: to be honest with you. 1247 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like six two two twenty five. I mean 1248 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,320 Speaker 2: just built like a tank. And he to your point, 1249 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 2: he's so much more fluid, so much more explosive, so 1250 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 2: much more just has burst than you would think for 1251 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,320 Speaker 2: a guy who again is built like built like a tank. 1252 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,960 Speaker 2: So he's got all that going for him. I think 1253 00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:59,640 Speaker 2: the vision for a guy who was playing it, I 1254 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 2: think twenty years old, is phenomenal. Obviously, when you're playing 1255 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,120 Speaker 2: behind the Notre Dame offensive line, that helps a little bit. 1256 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:06,960 Speaker 2: But I just thought he did such a good job 1257 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 2: of understanding how to play tight to blocks understanding exactly 1258 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,320 Speaker 2: went to cut it up, you know, never really stopping 1259 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 2: his feet behind the line of scrimmage, you know, not 1260 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,279 Speaker 2: a guy who's just wasting time or anything like that. 1261 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,840 Speaker 2: And then he is, you know, he's never gonna be 1262 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,120 Speaker 2: a Christian McCaffrey, Austin Eckler type of receiver. But like 1263 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,440 Speaker 2: for his size, he's very much a guy who I 1264 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,640 Speaker 2: am comfortable with catching passes. You know a lot of 1265 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 2: checkdown screens, that type of stuff, like way more than 1266 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,240 Speaker 2: you get from like Derrick Henry for example. 1267 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:33,759 Speaker 3: So I think he kind of checks that box. So 1268 00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 3: for me, he's just if. 1269 00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to bet on a running back, I want 1270 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 2: big guy one first of all, so he can be 1271 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 2: my lead back. I want young player, which obviously he was. 1272 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:45,480 Speaker 2: I think he was twenty he's gonna be twenty one, 1273 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,839 Speaker 2: I think at the draft. And then just a guy 1274 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,200 Speaker 2: who I think has the explosive profile that he has. 1275 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 2: And obviously, you know, he didn't run very well at 1276 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 2: the combine. His jumps were pretty good for his size though, 1277 00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,440 Speaker 2: and so I think this was just a case of like, 1278 00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,560 Speaker 2: for some reason, he just doesn't know how to run 1279 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 2: a forty. But then you watch him on film, and 1280 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 2: like especially the NC State game, like there are times 1281 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 2: where he is legitimately pulling away from linebackers and safeties 1282 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,040 Speaker 2: with ease and like getting even further the more he runs, 1283 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 2: like like just separating from guys. So like I think 1284 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 2: he's a lot faster than he tested, and like he 1285 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,319 Speaker 2: to me, is just someone in my mentions actually said 1286 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,840 Speaker 2: that he's like if you strap the jet back to 1287 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 2: Gus Edwards. 1288 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 3: That's kind of what I see him as. 1289 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 2: That's not a bad which to me is like a 1290 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,719 Speaker 2: pretty good player, especially in this class where there's no 1291 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 2: clear like you know, other number one running back that 1292 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:33,120 Speaker 2: there should be. 1293 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: And given the criteria you just set out, I guess 1294 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,359 Speaker 1: I shouldn't be surprised that Bryllen Allen is so high 1295 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,440 Speaker 1: on your lest He's young, he's really big, and he 1296 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,439 Speaker 1: has that production. I gotta be honest with it, Derek. 1297 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,040 Speaker 1: I did not watch anything before twenty twenty three and 1298 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: his twenty twenty three film, Like he's big. He doesn't 1299 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,640 Speaker 1: run like a big guy, though, and I'm a little 1300 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,800 Speaker 1: worried about whether or not he's gonna play to those measurables. 1301 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,560 Speaker 1: Should I go back and watch him with his earlier 1302 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,000 Speaker 1: tape when Wisconsin was running their old school Wisconsin stuff. 1303 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 3: I do think that would help. 1304 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,239 Speaker 2: I think him getting the the you know, the twenty 1305 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,840 Speaker 2: twenty three Phil Longo offense or whatever, it was a 1306 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,759 Speaker 2: really just bad fit for the type of player he is. 1307 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:11,480 Speaker 2: I don't think you're wrong to say. 1308 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,120 Speaker 3: That he doesn't run to his body type though. 1309 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,120 Speaker 2: You know, he's a guy who's like, again, he's like 1310 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,120 Speaker 2: six three six four, two hundred and forty pounds. You 1311 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,080 Speaker 2: think you're gonna get Brandon Jacobs, but you don't. You 1312 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,160 Speaker 2: get a guy who is who is really more. I 1313 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 2: think he's actually very nimble and very loose for a 1314 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 2: guy his size. But he's not a guy who just 1315 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,120 Speaker 2: like runs through people. Like there are times where you know, 1316 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 2: if he needs to move a pile, he can do it. 1317 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,160 Speaker 2: But he's not a guy who is just trucking through 1318 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,239 Speaker 2: people all the time. He's actually more of like a 1319 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,360 Speaker 2: nimble I'm trying to read out the field, you know, 1320 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,239 Speaker 2: trying to read out my blocks, really trying to be 1321 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,319 Speaker 2: a patient runner. I actually have said I want him 1322 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,319 Speaker 2: to like cut ten to fifteen pounds and just lean 1323 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 2: into being the big nimble guy. This is something that 1324 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,880 Speaker 2: Leveon Bell did coming out of Michigan State, Like he 1325 00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,439 Speaker 2: people didn't know what he was at his body type, 1326 00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,440 Speaker 2: and then he just lost fifteen pounds in the NFL 1327 00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,160 Speaker 2: and souddenly he was one of the most uh, you know, 1328 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,960 Speaker 2: patient fluid runners in the NFL. Obviously, I don't think 1329 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,359 Speaker 2: Alan's going to get there, but I think that type 1330 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,839 Speaker 2: of path is it is better for him than you know, 1331 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,399 Speaker 2: staying at two forty. And just like you don't learn 1332 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,080 Speaker 2: to run over guys, you're not going to learn to 1333 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,600 Speaker 2: run over guys. So that's just not something you figure out, 1334 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,600 Speaker 2: like you either have that mentality or you don't. So 1335 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,200 Speaker 2: I would like to see him cut a little pounds 1336 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,280 Speaker 2: and then just kind of lean into his his fluid 1337 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 2: iity and stuff like that. The other thing with Alan, 1338 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,480 Speaker 2: you know, he is complicated some he has some some issues. 1339 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,160 Speaker 3: Like you said, you know, it doesn't play to his size, 1340 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,879 Speaker 3: but very very young player. 1341 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 2: You have to keep in mind, this was a guy 1342 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,680 Speaker 2: who declared a year early out of high school. So 1343 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 2: he's like the youngest player in the draft, and so 1344 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,360 Speaker 2: one at running back just for longevity. That's kind of 1345 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,760 Speaker 2: a nice thing, But then too you just got to understand, 1346 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,600 Speaker 2: like there is still a bit of a learning curve here, 1347 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,799 Speaker 2: especially when again, like you said, twenty twenty two, he 1348 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,600 Speaker 2: was running a normal NFL ish offense, like what it 1349 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,080 Speaker 2: would look like in an NFL run game. Twenty twenty three, 1350 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,520 Speaker 2: not at all. This was the two by two spread, 1351 00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:57,680 Speaker 2: You're running inside zone all the time, Like that's just 1352 00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 2: he's not going to be that in the NFL. So yeah, 1353 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,800 Speaker 2: I think there's stuff to like, but I do totally 1354 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,080 Speaker 2: get why he, you know, has has scared some people off. 1355 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,960 Speaker 1: I couldn't get Ray Davis the top of my running 1356 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,879 Speaker 1: back list Derek, but I think I might have liked 1357 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,960 Speaker 1: his tape better than any other running back when you 1358 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,800 Speaker 1: take the age, you take the lack of elite testing, 1359 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:20,760 Speaker 1: but just playing the position that dude could play running 1360 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,880 Speaker 1: back and step in day one in the NFL and 1361 00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:24,759 Speaker 1: being eighteen to carry a game. Guy and he's going 1362 00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:25,920 Speaker 1: to be a good running back for you. 1363 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,440 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. This is the guy. 1364 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you look at everything but the tape, you're like, geez, 1365 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,319 Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to draft this guy, 1366 00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,800 Speaker 2: because yeah, he's like twenty five, you know, multiple transfers, 1367 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 2: I think, you know, again didn't test very well. But man, 1368 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,960 Speaker 2: you watch him play and it's like in terms of 1369 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,320 Speaker 2: understanding how to pace yourself as a runner, making decisions, 1370 00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,200 Speaker 2: playing tight to blocks, you know, jam your foot in 1371 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,040 Speaker 2: the ground and go like not wasting time behind the 1372 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,480 Speaker 2: line of strimmage. He might be the cleanest runner in 1373 00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,680 Speaker 2: the classman. And obviously, you know, twenty five, you've seen 1374 00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,279 Speaker 2: a lot of football, you should be but he is, 1375 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 2: so he at least delivers on that. And then he's 1376 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 2: a really thick runner who does kind of play to 1377 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,920 Speaker 2: his size. He can run through people. His balance is 1378 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,840 Speaker 2: is I think, phenomenal. And then you know, he's not 1379 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,239 Speaker 2: the fastest or most explosive guy, but I think for 1380 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 2: a guy who is more built like a bowling ball, 1381 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 2: he's got enough to him. It's almost like Ray rice 1382 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 2: Ish where it's like, Okay, he's not super explosive, but 1383 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,560 Speaker 2: for that size, he's got enough to him. And then 1384 00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,280 Speaker 2: really what shocked me with him, he's kind of a 1385 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,560 Speaker 2: pretty good receiver. Like there were times where he was 1386 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,440 Speaker 2: running like wheel routes and like seam routes in this offense, 1387 00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,080 Speaker 2: and I was like, you are not built like that 1388 00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,520 Speaker 2: type of player, but he was doing it anyway, and 1389 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,080 Speaker 2: his hands on those instances was really really good. So he, 1390 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,600 Speaker 2: to me, is just a guy who again to your point, 1391 00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,880 Speaker 2: I think you can one just because of his size. 1392 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:45,920 Speaker 2: Give him, you know, eighteen twenty carries a game if 1393 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:47,760 Speaker 2: you need to. But then he just checks a lot 1394 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,520 Speaker 2: of the mental boxes, you know, Like I said, like 1395 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,080 Speaker 2: just handles himself well as a runner, really useful pass catcher. 1396 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,120 Speaker 2: I think in pass protection he can be a little 1397 00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:58,040 Speaker 2: all over the place, but he's got the mentality, he's 1398 00:57:58,080 --> 00:57:59,240 Speaker 2: got the strengthen to do it. I think you can 1399 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,280 Speaker 2: teach him a little bit. So he's just to me, 1400 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 2: like man at the very least, like this is a 1401 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,160 Speaker 2: useful number two to have. You know, maybe the ceiling 1402 00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,280 Speaker 2: is limited, but he's just a useful guy to have. 1403 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:09,280 Speaker 3: I like him. 1404 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,520 Speaker 1: Last running back one for you, and I can't quite 1405 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,680 Speaker 1: put my finger on it. I watched Marshawn Lloyd. He's 1406 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,800 Speaker 1: five nine, and I actually like short runners, don't. I 1407 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,760 Speaker 1: don't mind short runners. I'm fine with them. He's almost 1408 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,960 Speaker 1: two hundred twenty pounds. His side to side movement skills 1409 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,840 Speaker 1: and quickness and explosiveness is off the charge he tested 1410 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,200 Speaker 1: to that. But when you watch him, and I don't 1411 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 1: know if it's vision or instincts, I just think there's 1412 00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,040 Speaker 1: something a little bit missing that's keeping him out of 1413 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,600 Speaker 1: that kind of Brooks Tray Benson category. For me, I 1414 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,360 Speaker 1: notice that's kind of the same with the way you 1415 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,760 Speaker 1: have Marshawn Lloyd graded. Why. 1416 00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm so with you, Like, I think 1417 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,200 Speaker 2: there are reasons, you know, I get why people like him. 1418 00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,600 Speaker 2: You know, he's like five nine two twenty, very thick back, 1419 00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,200 Speaker 2: really explosive for that size, Like he's a very good 1420 00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,280 Speaker 2: mover for that size. He's a runner who is willing 1421 00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 2: to run through people. I think his balance is nice 1422 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 2: when he does just put his foot in the ground, 1423 00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,400 Speaker 2: it looks really pretty. But I kind of agree with 1424 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,400 Speaker 2: you on the vision, like he's just he's kind of 1425 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,480 Speaker 2: a runner who's five times a game just. 1426 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:08,960 Speaker 3: Doing his own thing. 1427 00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,960 Speaker 2: And it's like, man, that's you better be like Jamiir 1428 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,600 Speaker 2: Gibbs type of athlete level explosiveness if you're gonna pull, 1429 00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,880 Speaker 2: if you're gonna try that bs. And I think he's, 1430 00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,320 Speaker 2: you know, a really good athlete, but it's I don't 1431 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,800 Speaker 2: know if he's quite there, And so I think you're 1432 00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,640 Speaker 2: gonna it's gonna be a long learning curve to get 1433 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:28,720 Speaker 2: him to understand that stuff. The other thing I think 1434 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,960 Speaker 2: people are not quite getting about Marshawn Lloyd. This dude 1435 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,840 Speaker 2: fumbles all of the time, like he has one of 1436 00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,160 Speaker 2: the highest fumble rates that I can remember. And then 1437 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,680 Speaker 2: you even just watch him play and it's like, at 1438 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,800 Speaker 2: least once a game he just costs up the ball somehow, 1439 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,840 Speaker 2: and it's like, that's just not gonna fly in the NFL. 1440 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,440 Speaker 2: Like if you remember last year, there was Dwayne McBride. 1441 00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,920 Speaker 2: I'm kind of a different player, but he was a 1442 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,200 Speaker 2: guy who it's like, man, you just watch him run 1443 00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,280 Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, this looks like an NFL back 1444 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,960 Speaker 2: and he just cannot stop giving up the football. It's 1445 00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:58,959 Speaker 2: like that alone is just teams are just not gonna 1446 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,680 Speaker 2: want to deal with it. Lloyd actually reminds me a lot. 1447 01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,880 Speaker 2: This is kind of like off the Wall here. Reminds 1448 01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,400 Speaker 2: me a lot of like Christine Michael with the Seahawks, 1449 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:11,120 Speaker 2: where it's like, man, the athleticism and his best plays, 1450 01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:12,440 Speaker 2: you want to buy in. 1451 01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:16,280 Speaker 3: So bad it looks so good, but the. 1452 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,280 Speaker 2: Inconsistency with the vision and then all the fumbles and 1453 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,800 Speaker 2: then it's just like it's just gonna be I think 1454 01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:24,960 Speaker 2: hard for coaches to live with some of that stuff 1455 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:26,840 Speaker 2: to get him to the point where he can be 1456 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:27,560 Speaker 2: more consistent. 1457 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 3: So I get it. 1458 01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,880 Speaker 2: I understand why people like him, but I'm kind of 1459 01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,440 Speaker 2: with you where I just can't quite get there all 1460 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:33,720 Speaker 2: the way. 1461 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,400 Speaker 1: All right now, running back and receiver, last one. There, 1462 01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,080 Speaker 1: give me one late day three guy that you really 1463 01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,680 Speaker 1: think could develop into something special that you think people 1464 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,600 Speaker 1: are undervaluing or overlooking at both wide receiver and running back. 1465 01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,040 Speaker 3: I mean at running back. 1466 01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,439 Speaker 2: I think my kind of guy I liked a little 1467 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,440 Speaker 2: bit was Juir Jordan, a small guy who did not 1468 01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,120 Speaker 2: test very well, which is a really not great sign, 1469 01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:59,600 Speaker 2: but you just watch him, and I think when you 1470 01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,440 Speaker 2: pick guys in this day three range, it's totally fine 1471 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,920 Speaker 2: for me to just pick guys who we know he 1472 01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:06,760 Speaker 2: checks a lot of boxes and I know what his 1473 01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:08,520 Speaker 2: role can be. He to me is just a very 1474 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,840 Speaker 2: very smart runner. You know, he's he's if we block 1475 01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:13,840 Speaker 2: for four, he's gonna get four. You know, he's just 1476 01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,240 Speaker 2: not gonna mess it up. And I think that that's 1477 01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 2: super valuable. And then I think, as a pass catcher 1478 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,000 Speaker 2: and pass blocker. He really understands what's going on. He's 1479 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,920 Speaker 2: a guy who checks a lot of boxes. He just 1480 01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,200 Speaker 2: knows what's going on in the game. He reminds me 1481 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,320 Speaker 2: a lot of Actually that Kyrien Williams. It probably won't 1482 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,439 Speaker 2: be like as good as what Kyen was this year, 1483 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,720 Speaker 2: but just again, a small guy didn't test all that well, 1484 01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:34,960 Speaker 2: but just knows how to play the game man, And 1485 01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:36,960 Speaker 2: that that, to me is a guy that I would 1486 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,120 Speaker 2: like to take a chance on in that range Day 1487 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,600 Speaker 2: three receivers. You know what, I actually really kind of 1488 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,560 Speaker 2: liked the more I watched him. Malik Washington out of Virginia. 1489 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,480 Speaker 2: I typically don't love these smaller receivers, I'll be honest, 1490 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,840 Speaker 2: but he is just a guy where you watch him 1491 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,000 Speaker 2: play and it's just he is in the right spot 1492 01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:59,040 Speaker 2: all the time when he's running like shallow crossers. 1493 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:00,520 Speaker 3: This sounds like such a dumb thing, you know, oh, 1494 01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:01,400 Speaker 3: a shallow crosser. 1495 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,720 Speaker 2: But he knows exactly where to sit down against zone coverage. 1496 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,280 Speaker 2: He knows exactly when to throw his hands up on 1497 01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 2: the quarterback needs him to. And then with the ball 1498 01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,480 Speaker 2: in his hands, Man, that dude can move like he 1499 01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,560 Speaker 2: is just so twitchy, so quick, so explosive, really good vision, 1500 01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,640 Speaker 2: and he's a lot tougher and thicker than you would think, 1501 01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:20,840 Speaker 2: like he's I think he's like five eight five nine, 1502 01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:22,880 Speaker 2: but he's like one hundred and niney hundred and ninety 1503 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:24,600 Speaker 2: dude out, I mean that size. 1504 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,360 Speaker 1: I talked to him one on one down at Shrine 1505 01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:29,760 Speaker 1: and I was right next to him, and he's built 1506 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,919 Speaker 1: kind of like Darren sproles ish type of guy. He's 1507 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,840 Speaker 1: thick like a runner. By the way, same thing with 1508 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,240 Speaker 1: Malochai Corley. We didn't talk about him. He literally has 1509 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,240 Speaker 1: built like Saquon Barkley, Like you stand next to him, 1510 01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:40,640 Speaker 1: and I've been next to Saque in the locker room 1511 01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,600 Speaker 1: for fifteen years. Here he's built like Saque. So you're 1512 01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:45,560 Speaker 1: you're you're one hundred percent right about his bill. That 1513 01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,280 Speaker 1: guy could take a little bit of a pounding. 1514 01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:49,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think when you're gonna be you know, 1515 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:51,400 Speaker 2: he's gonna be a slot only just because of his size. 1516 01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:53,720 Speaker 2: But when you're a slot only, it's nice to have 1517 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,040 Speaker 2: guys who are thicker because if you're just running routes 1518 01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,160 Speaker 2: over the middle, you're either gonna take his catching the 1519 01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,640 Speaker 2: ball or you're just gonna have a lot of these 1520 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,560 Speaker 2: quick run after catch opportunities and again you're gonna take hits. 1521 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:04,360 Speaker 2: But he's got the build for it. I'm glad you 1522 01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,600 Speaker 2: mentioned Corley real quick. It feels like Washington is like 1523 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,320 Speaker 2: if you can if you missed out on Horley, you 1524 01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,480 Speaker 2: can take Washington around and a half later and you'll 1525 01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,560 Speaker 2: be like, I'm fine here, this is okay. 1526 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,640 Speaker 3: I don't feel bad about it. Yeah. 1527 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:18,640 Speaker 1: I think some people put leg Get into that category 1528 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,360 Speaker 1: as well. I think he's a little bit different, and 1529 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:22,000 Speaker 1: I actually like Corley a little bit more than I 1530 01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,280 Speaker 1: like lyget who I don't see the same run after 1531 01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,240 Speaker 1: catches as I do for him. But that's a longer conversation. Derek, 1532 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,160 Speaker 1: awesome stuff. One more time. Tell the folks, uh what 1533 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:31,200 Speaker 1: you want them to check out? 1534 01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys can find me on Twitter at QB 1535 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,280 Speaker 2: class with a K obviously over a bleacherp report. I 1536 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,040 Speaker 2: have all my skill position grades and then you can 1537 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:40,720 Speaker 2: check out the rest of our big board. We actually 1538 01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,760 Speaker 2: just finalized our final final big board on Thursday. That'll 1539 01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,840 Speaker 2: be released Monday or Tuesday. I'm I'm not, you know, 1540 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,680 Speaker 2: one hundred percent positive, but definitely early before draft week 1541 01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:51,520 Speaker 2: and then. 1542 01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,360 Speaker 3: Over at reception perception. I do a lot of my 1543 01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,200 Speaker 3: quarterback charting. 1544 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,400 Speaker 2: I have charted in most of the quarterbacks who will 1545 01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,720 Speaker 2: get drafted this year, hope hopefully all of them, and 1546 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,440 Speaker 2: then I'll be doing some NFL charting during the offseason. 1547 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and wait to see it. Derek Klass we be 1548 01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:05,920 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us on the Giants Little Podcast, 1549 01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,040 Speaker 1: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. 1550 01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,320 Speaker 1: Folks were in a sprint of the draft, only a 1551 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,440 Speaker 1: couple episodes to go. Stay tuners well, continue to get 1552 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,320 Speaker 1: ready for the twenty twenty four NFL Draft.