1 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and this is Season two of Our Skin, 2 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: a personal discovery podcast. Today we are joined by a 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: guest who brings fierce confidence, joyful self expression, and powerful 4 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: advocacy to everything she does, Alison's Soul. Alison is a model, 5 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: actor and creator who has been open about her journey 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: with psoriasis, sharing not just the challenges, but the moments 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: of pride, play and radical self love that have shaped 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: her relationship with her skin. Whether she's walking the runway 9 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: for inclusive fashion brands or starring in national ad campaigns, 10 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: Alison is helping shift the conversation around visible skin conditions. 11 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: Her message is clear, your skin does not define you, 12 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: and there is beauty, freedom, and power in embracing your 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: body exactly as it is. Allison's work as a model, performer, 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: and advocate create space for others to feel seen, represented 15 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: and celebrated. Today, we will talk to Alison about her 16 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: creative work, the impact of representation, and what it means 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: to claim visibility on your own terms. Alison, Welcome to 18 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: Our Skin. We are so delighted to have you here. 19 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 2: Thank you, Holly. 20 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 3: I am honored and I feel very privileged to be here. 21 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: So thank you so much. I appreciate you having me. 22 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: The first place I want to start for the beginning 23 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: of our discussion is also the beginning for your journey 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: with psoriasis. Can you take us back to when you 25 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: were first diagnosed and tell us what those early years 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: were like for you emotionally and physically. 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 28 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 3: I was actually officially only diagnosed recently in twenty twenty one, 29 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: So for years I was diagnosed with exema. So I 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: have both and both have been confirmed with separate and 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: multiple diagnoses. You know, over the year years and twenty 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 3: twenty one, a new dermatologist I was seeing, she said, 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 3: let's test you for psoriasis, Let's test you for basically 34 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 3: everything under the sun. So we did a lot of 35 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 3: patch testing and we did some blood draws, and she said, okay, well, 36 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: you're one of the most rare cases I've seen and 37 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: with egzma and ssoriasis, and there are so many people 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: out there that have both. So I'd love that I'm 39 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 3: here to shine light on my early experiences with psoriasis 40 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: and exma both. Knowing that I had this autoimmune condition, 41 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: it really explained, Oh, this is why sometimes I'm just 42 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 3: so exhausted or this is why sometimes I don't have 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: an appetite or whatever it may be. So it's just 44 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: really eye opening and having to go through tons and 45 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 3: tons of doctors just to get that one diagnosis. In 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, I had to advocate for myself, and 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 3: I knew that something else was going on other than 48 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: ezma because there was just so many different symptoms I 49 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 3: was experiencing. So just having a doctor that really is 50 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 3: your advocate, when you do find somebody that really has 51 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 3: their heart in it and really looks you in your 52 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: eyes and says, you know we're going to help you. 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 3: You know you don't have to suffer like this, I 54 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: think it's just really key. And I would say to 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: anybody like, don't stop searching until you find those people 56 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 3: who are on your team and do truly care. 57 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: You evidence a phenomena that we have seen in I 58 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: think every single guest, no one is like I had 59 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: a problem. I went to the doctor, they told me 60 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: I had sorrisis. It's always this journey of meandering turns 61 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: and twists. I'm very thankful that you brought up that 62 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: you also experience exzema and kind of have this layered 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: scenario that is very unusual. How does having these two 64 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: different things change how you manage each of them, because 65 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: I imagine in some cases what you would do for 66 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: one might be contry indicated for the other. 67 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: Yes, that too. 68 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 3: So there's that point where the method tre say, and 69 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 3: the folic acid for psoriasis, you know sometimes that's prescribed 70 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: that can sometimes flare up ezema. It also made mysiasis 71 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: like a little bit more like weepy rather than crusty. 72 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: And it's like a little bit graphic. Oh, we're going 73 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 3: to get so graphic. 74 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, don't even worry about it. 75 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: It's just so bad. So for anybody with skin issues 76 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: that's listening to this and that's here with us, like 77 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 3: we're with you, You're not alone. There's a lot of 78 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 3: mental health issues that go into this. Because I was 79 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: calling out a work at the time. I was working 80 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 3: retail at a department store, and I couldn't go to 81 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: work because my eggzema and psoriasis was like combining and 82 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: like turning into this like ooze, like all body ooze, 83 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 3: and so it's like affects your mental health and your paycheck, 84 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 3: and it's a whole body experience. It's definitely not just 85 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 3: the skin. 86 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: By the time you found this doctor that heard you 87 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: and you mentioned doing like patch tests and stuff. What 88 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: was that diagnosis process like where they finally realized like, oh, no, 89 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: this is a two headed monster, not just one that 90 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Like, what were the steps that you 91 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: had to go through. 92 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: They took a patch of skin off of my thigh, 93 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 3: just like the tiniest little patch of all the layers. 94 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: Of my skin. 95 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 3: They also like the physical examination of looking and I 96 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 3: think a lot of doctors they kind of get confused 97 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: because eggzema crisis can look the same a little bit. 98 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 3: For decades and years. It was just oh, this is 99 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 3: this is egment. You have allergies, you have allergies, so 100 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: this is eggzement, which it is. I do have allergies 101 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 3: and sometimes it is eggzema. From like twenty ten to 102 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: like twenty twenty, so like a decade, I had rashes 103 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 3: on my foot and I was just wondering myself, like 104 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: I've never had this as a child with eggzema. But 105 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: I just thought, oh, it just is new eggzema. So 106 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 3: they took the patch test, they took some blood tests, 107 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: and then it was just as simple as them saying, yeah, 108 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 3: this is psoriasis off the patch test, but just knowing like, hey, 109 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 3: I have psoriasis and we need to treat it. It 110 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 3: just helps with the diagnosis and then it also helps 111 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: with the doctors knowing what to prescribe. 112 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: I like how you went years and years consulting doctors 113 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: and you just needed that one person to be like, hey, 114 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: there's the simple test we can do here. 115 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, skin biopsy. Right, the word just came to me. 116 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 3: And all of this is out of pocket, by the way, 117 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 3: like I didn't have insurance at this time. Then there's 118 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: another there's another prong of this, which is the affordability 119 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: in this country. Is like with skin problems, people kind 120 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 3: of just brush it off, like, oh, you don't have 121 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 3: heart failure, you have skin condition. So it's like live 122 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 3: with it, deal with it, figure it out yourself. 123 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: I want to pivot a little bit to talking about 124 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: some of your work because you model, which of course 125 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: involves all kinds of visibility literally, yes, visibly, emotionally. It's 126 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: the lot of visibility. So one I just want to 127 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: know how did you get into modeling, How did you 128 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: start down that path? 129 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 3: My mom has put a camera in front of my 130 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: face since I was a baby like video camera. I 131 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: was a nineties baby, so just the camquarder was in 132 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: my face all the time. I'm so used to it. 133 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: But I actually didn't start professionally modeling until I was 134 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: about twenty three, so not young. You know a lot 135 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 3: of girls they start when they're thirteen or twelve. I 136 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 3: started when I was twenty three, and I was in 137 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: a corporate role and I was in transportation and logistics, 138 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: and I was just in my apartment pool with a 139 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 3: bikini that I purchased from the model. Her name's Ashley Graham. 140 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 3: Do you know who she is? 141 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 142 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: So, yeah, she's an international A list the number one model. 143 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: I just love her. 144 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: I love her stunningly paint gorgeous. 145 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 3: Yes, her beauty just radiates inside and out, and so 146 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: it's just she's just the best. So I posted a 147 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 3: picture of me in a bikini in her bikini line 148 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 3: in my apartment pool, like you know, nothing fancy. My 149 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: friend took the picture and she reposted me, and that's 150 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: how I jumped from like one hundred followers to thousands 151 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: of followers. And I decided I'm going to quit my 152 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: job and buy a new car and drive out to 153 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: La and just come with five hundred dollars and see 154 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: what happens. And then I went to casting in twenty 155 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 3: twenty four in January for Good American. Thirty thousand people 156 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 3: applied for this casting. And I showed up to this 157 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: casting on an early morning. I had eggzema all over 158 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 3: my neck, I had psoriasis on my hands. It was 159 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 3: pouring rain, but I said I'm here. I made it 160 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: seven hours waiting in line, and I was in the 161 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: audition for less than five minutes and I went to 162 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 3: the head of HR. I didn't know who she was. 163 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 3: She was just the first judge available, and I said, 164 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 3: I'm here because I have no makeup on, I have 165 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 3: soaking wet hair, I have eggzema and crisis all over me. 166 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 3: Like it's been, you know, a crazy week, and I 167 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 3: just moved to LA two months ago, and I'm here 168 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 3: for this casting. I'm proud to be myself, like everybody's perfect, 169 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 3: just the way they are. And she was like, we 170 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 3: love you and literally like I had like red oozing 171 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 3: eggzema on my neck. And then a month later, I 172 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: get this email saying you're part of our Good squad 173 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: along with six other girls out of thirty thousand people. 174 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 3: I was like, what, so that's how I got started 175 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: in modeling, And yeah, here are the. 176 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Two things that I think of immediately. One, this is 177 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: such a classic and perfect example of confidence is more 178 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: beautiful than any genetics, right, Like, that's what the draw 179 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: was for you. But Two do you ever wonder I 180 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: wonder listening to your story if like, how many man 181 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: hours and how much mental energy was spent and possibly 182 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: wasted with the think tank of people go, I don't 183 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: know how much do we photoshop they're red? How much 184 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: do we allow and especially when they want to be authentic? 185 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: There is a delicate balance there in the consumer market, 186 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: which is really interesting. There is also this other aspect 187 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: of having a job like that, because visibility can be 188 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: very double edged, right, There's an empowering aspect to it, 189 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: but it is also very exhausting for most people. How 190 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: do you balance that? How do you decide when you're like, yep, 191 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to show up publicly. I'm going to put 192 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: myself out there today versus the days when you're like, 193 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: you know what, we're going to prioritize personal piece today. 194 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: So I'm very much a pull up my bootstops and like, 195 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 3: use the privileges and blessings. 196 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 2: That I have. Stop wallowing away about your skin. 197 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 3: If you feel okay, like I need to show up 198 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: because I need to show up for every person that's 199 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 3: not showing up for themselves, I need to show up 200 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 3: and show them. You can be confident, Like everybody has 201 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 3: their instius curities. Don't let this block you from your 202 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 3: destiny and your dreams. Don't let this hold you back. 203 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 3: When that physical pain comes in, when I can barely 204 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 3: move my neck, or you know, when I can barely 205 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 3: move my legs because I'm just crusted all over, That's 206 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 3: when I decide, hey, I need to just take a 207 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 3: day of rest, hydrate myself, make sure I'm constantly staying moisturized. 208 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 3: Those are the times when I definitely take time and 209 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 3: slow down to heal. There have been instances where hey, 210 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: we want a model with egzema or you know, crisis, 211 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 3: just usually casting people, and I'll have to say, oh, 212 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 3: right now, I only have it on my legs and 213 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 3: they're like, oh, well, we wanted it on your face. 214 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I just cleared that up. So we 215 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 3: just have to control what we can control, which is 216 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: our attitude and putting ourselves out there when we feel 217 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 3: you know good. 218 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: So we've been talking a lot about your modeling career. 219 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: But if I have my research correct, you're like anisunce woman. 220 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: You also are an opera singer. Yeah that's correct. And 221 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: yeah and even get me started, and you make jewelry 222 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: and you're an artist. 223 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 2: I love it. 224 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 3: And singing is my passion. Like singing, it's a blessing. 225 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 3: It's a gift my singing voice. And I would say 226 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: my singing voice has helped me get through my struggles 227 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 3: with x menz risis because it's like, Okay, I have 228 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: a beautiful singing voice. It's like kind of like my buddy, 229 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: like my friend. And then I thought to myself, you 230 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 3: know what, like I still have a purpose, like I 231 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 3: have the singing voice, and like I can do something 232 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 3: with it. 233 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: Well, you can add to the list of things that 234 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: you do that you are also a psychic, because my 235 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: next question was going to be is that a place 236 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: you go for solace and to get a little bit 237 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: of self care and like self healing. 238 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 3: One hundred thousand percent, like ultimately, and like I think 239 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 3: my biggest fear like when I get sick, like when 240 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 3: COVID hit. I was sick and I lost my voice, 241 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 3: and my biggest fear is losing my vocal abilities. Knowing 242 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: like I have something and it's unique and it's unique 243 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 3: to me, and I'm the only person in the world 244 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: that has my singing voice, and so it's like definitely 245 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: a comforting thing to have, and so I'm very blessed. 246 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: Like I don't take it for granted at all, And 247 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 3: I don't really share a lot of my singing just 248 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 3: because it's so personal and so close to my heart. 249 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 3: And I'm like, I can be half naked on the internet, 250 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 3: but once you want me to start singing, like, I 251 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 3: don't care if people are like you suck, Like I 252 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 3: don't care. People can say whatever they want because I 253 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 3: have such a high confidence and like nothing can break it, 254 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: Like my confidence truly comes from within, but it's about 255 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 3: me just being protective of it. 256 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: I also want to talk, though, a little bit about 257 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: an aspect of you that's very nurturing, because you have 258 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: built this very thoughtful, really welcoming online presence that people 259 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: are very drawn to. And I'm curious how engaging with 260 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: like a kronous illness community online has impacted your journey 261 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: and what you have learned from those people and what 262 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: you take away on the daily from that experience. 263 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 3: It's definitely empowering and like great to have a united front. 264 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 3: I just remember times like a couple of years ago, 265 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 3: I was out and about and my hands were covered 266 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 3: in EGMA and it was right when the pandemic was hitting, 267 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 3: and this guy that I knew came up to me. 268 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: He's like, you got the coronavirus and like looking at 269 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: my hands and like disgusted. I had another person next 270 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: to me that I didn't even know. They have crisis, 271 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 3: and they like read him for filth. They were like, 272 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: how dare you? And so surrounding yourself and like being 273 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: intentional with who you're reaching out to and why, and 274 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 3: like I've reached out on the internet like Instagram, social 275 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: media whatever. They said, Oh, we have egsma, we have crisis, 276 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 3: And I hit follow every time and like follow, follow, Follow, 277 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 3: I'm gonna follow all of you so we can be united. 278 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 3: Having that community like really saved me. Having people that 279 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 3: don't have skin conditions that came over to my house 280 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 3: and like did my when I couldn't even move my 281 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: arms up and down in my neck because it was 282 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 3: so tight and itchy and oozy and cracking, I couldn't 283 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: do anything. It's just good to know, like I have 284 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 3: my group of people that know what I'm going through 285 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 3: and we're not alone, and we're all here to support 286 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: each other. 287 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: H I love it so much. I am so delighted 288 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: by you and now and Allison's soul. 289 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: Fam. 290 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: I want to know what's next for you though, whether 291 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: that is in your advocacy or your creative work. Listen, 292 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: we know the voice is coming or something that we 293 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: haven't seen yet. 294 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: So I have a couple campaigns for modeling that haven't 295 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 3: come out yet, and I'm so excited about them. One 296 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 3: is a beauty brand and then the other is an 297 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: international technology brand. So the beauty brand. That's a huge 298 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 3: accomplishment for me, just because I thought I could never 299 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 3: do a beauty modeling, which is when they get really 300 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: close up and take a picture of your eyelashes, they 301 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: get really close up and take a picture of like 302 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: your lip and your nose or like your ear. I 303 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 3: thought I could never do that because of my eggsamone skin. 304 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 3: But guess what this beauty brand was like, No, you're 305 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 3: perfect and that's the only tree that you have. And 306 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: that's how I think I've gotten where I am is 307 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: just constantly thinking and like putting the action behind that 308 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 3: mindset of like there are opportunities out there for me, 309 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 3: Like rejection is divine redirection getting you close to your 310 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 3: aligned purpose. 311 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm glad you talked about abundance because we have an 312 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: abundance of history to talk about, and it gets super 313 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: duper weird. I know you are worried about gross. Don't 314 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: worry about that because when we look back on the 315 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: ways that people have tried to treat psoriasis in the past, 316 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: who we get to see a lot of strange treatments 317 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: and some that are really super duper gross. Modern times 318 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: are not immune from our judgment either, And we're going 319 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: to get into all of that right after we take 320 00:16:44,680 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: a little break. So today's history is gonna test your 321 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: gag reflex. How far can we go? Because when it 322 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: comes to the history of skin treatments, humans have tried 323 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: everything right. We've done boiled snakes, We've done mercury savs, 324 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: we've done cow heer and cocktails. For people living with 325 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: chronic skin diseases like coriasis, that path to relief has 326 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: always been tangled in myth and desperation and sometimes straight 327 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: up pseudoscience, and believe it or not, some of those 328 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: strange cures did not end in the eighteenth century, so 329 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: don't get cocky. They're still happening today. 330 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 2: I'm sure. I'm sure. 331 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: I know you said it was a long road to 332 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: find someone who actually understood that you were actually dealing 333 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: with psoriasis. But did you along the path ever try 334 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: anything that today you now chuckle at, like, oh, that 335 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: was not gonna help me. Ever. 336 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 3: So this is a really common treatment for sariasis, especially 337 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 3: when there's like an infection or if there's a suspected infection, 338 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 3: and it's a bleach path. So you fill up water 339 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 3: and I think you just pour like a whole gallon 340 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: of bleach. 341 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: In the bath. I don't think I would ever want 342 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: to do that. 343 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: Again, one hundred percent. Thought you were going to say 344 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: cold tar, and I'm like, people are still doing it. 345 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: For today's story, though, we're going to start not in 346 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: any modern clinic or wellness spa, but in fact, in 347 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: the foggy streets of seventeen hundreds London. In seventeen fourteen, 348 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: an English physician named Daniel Turner published a widely read 349 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: medical text called demorbus Cutaneous that's on skin diseases, and 350 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: in this text he distinguishes two types of skin conditions, 351 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: so one that originates outwardly, like say an allergy, where 352 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: an external stimulus is causing skin conditions, and ones that 353 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: cause changes to the skin but originate inwardly. He was 354 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: kind of onto something an outward condition with an internal 355 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: cause describes psoriasis, right. I mean, I find this kind 356 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: of remarkable because in seven veteen fourteen he was distinguishing 357 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: between inward and outward causes for things that he observed 358 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: on his patient's skin. And that's about one hundred and 359 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: fifty years before the concept of germ theory was introduced, 360 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: and we only officially figured out that psoriasis was an 361 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: autoimmune disease sixty to seventy years ago, so he was 362 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: way ahead of the curve. Turner did become a physician, 363 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: but he actually started out as a barber surgeon, So 364 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: this requires a little explanation if people don't know this. 365 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: At the time, surgeons were actually in the barber's guild 366 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: or the barber's union. Barber surgeon was the title. They 367 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: were multi hyphenates, so this is a profession separate from 368 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: being a physician. They were considered crafts people artisans, but 369 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: not doctors. So physicians were more academic. They could diagnose 370 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: things and they would treat people, but the messy parts 371 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: of everyday medical needs that was for the barber surgeons 372 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: to deal with. So a barber surgeon might come around 373 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,959 Speaker 1: and cut your hair. They could pull your teeth if 374 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: you needed them taken out. They could do whatever other 375 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: minor surgery you might require, total full service in a way, 376 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of like an original general practitioner, right, yeah, yeah. Thankfully, 377 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: In historical terms, by the time we got to the 378 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds, surgery became a lot more civilized and 379 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: less frightening thanks to things like anesthesia, which people had 380 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: been experiencing surgery without it before then, as well as antiseptics. 381 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: It was also incorporated into medical school curricula, which is 382 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: what led to the merger of physicians and surgeons under 383 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: one umbrella, and then the barbers were then left to 384 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: worry about hair. Dentistry formed its own little path as well, 385 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: So to go back to Daniel Turner and his book 386 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: on skin diseases, one of the most shocking treatments that 387 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: he recommends for psariasis is a bra made from boiled vipers, 388 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: like literally a snake stew. 389 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 390 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: He had some other ideas. He also used mercury salves 391 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: on his patients, almost certainly unaware of the toxic effects 392 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: of heavy metals. But the thing is these were not 393 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: outliers at the time. They were considered very serious, completely 394 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: legitimate medical interventions, and as grotesque as that all sounds. 395 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: Turner was building on a tradition that really goes back centuries. 396 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: Ancient Greek physicians like Galen thought that illness could be 397 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: driven out of the body by drawing it through the skin, 398 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: and that certain animal substances, including snake parts, had these 399 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: cleansing properties. And other common historical treatments included things like 400 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: mashed onions not so bad, goat bile getting a little worse, 401 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: and brace yourself both human and animal feces. 402 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 2: Oh I knew that one was coming. 403 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: Roman texts actually described the use of urine as a 404 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: cleansing agent for wounds. That idea persisted through the Middle Ages, 405 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: when folk heelers would advise people to drink urine to 406 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: bathe in urine or to use it as a poultice 407 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: to treat all manner of ailments, including skin diseases. Some 408 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: of this was based on this now discredited idea called 409 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: the doctrine of signatures, and that claimed that substances that 410 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: resembled an ailing part of the body or organ could 411 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: also be the thing that cured that body part or organ. 412 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: So other times there was just a lot of superstition 413 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: mixed in with people being desperate for some help. So 414 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about the doctrine 415 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: of signatures because it is a source of ceaseless fascination 416 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: for me. The origins of it are deeply debated. Some 417 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: think that this idea that you can tell if a 418 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: plant will cure what ails you dates all the way 419 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: back to hippocratic medicine and ancient Greece. He definitely had 420 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: a belief that quote cures for human ills were divinely 421 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: revealed in nature, often through plants. So if you've ever 422 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: thought to yourself, like, hey, who was the first person 423 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: to try a mushroom so we know it's not poisonous, 424 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: it was these guys. 425 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 3: Yes, Wow, it sounds really strategic and very promising. 426 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: The thing that eventually discredited the doctrine of signatures is 427 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: that a lot of these treatments that it suggested in 428 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: this ideology, it suggested people approach treatment with poisoned people sometimes, 429 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: and that's something that you can't always tell when you 430 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: look at a plant, Oh, that plant's poisonous. So when 431 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: they're like, I don't know, it looks like a kidney, 432 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: give it a whirl, and then their patient doesn't make 433 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: it doesn't really help that ideology. So all of this 434 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: to say, our sixteen, seventeenth and eighteenth century doctors were 435 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: very into experimentation with the natural world and all of 436 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: the excrement and smelly onion salves that it had to offer. 437 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: And you may think that we have moved past that now, 438 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways we have, but there 439 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: is a catch. Even in the twenty first century, treatments 440 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: that sound a little bit more like magic than medicine 441 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: still find their way into the mainstream. It happens all 442 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: over the world on social media of all types, and 443 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: sometimes it can even come from a government. Get ready, 444 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: So in early twenty twenty one, not that far from 445 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: when you were actually finally getting your diagnosis, sort of 446 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: a yes, the Indian government's National Cow Protection Board decided 447 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: that they were going to host an examination. The subject was, 448 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: of course the cow, so that's right. There was this 449 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: national exam all about the cow, which is a sacred 450 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: animal to many people in India. And that may sound weird, 451 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: but they did it. They put together this voluntary online 452 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: exam that anyone could take. It was offered in fourteen languages. 453 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: So it was a huge, huge undertaking. This was like 454 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: a big project. This actually turned into a little bit 455 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: of a problem though, because some of the strangest parts 456 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,479 Speaker 1: of this entire undertaking were in the study materials that 457 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: were provided by this government body. So this material promoted 458 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: the use of punchagava for disease prevention and treatment. And 459 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: punchagava is a traditional Ayurvedic mixture. It is composed of 460 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: five cow derived substances, so milk, curd, ghi which is clarified, 461 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: butter urine, and dung. And according to these materials circulated 462 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: by this official government body, daily consumption of this combination 463 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: that included all these substances could heal psoriasis and many 464 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: other things, even purportedly cancer. This fifty four page study 465 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: guide which was released ASF is no longer available online 466 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: and the test never actually ended up happening because there 467 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of outcry from local doctors and even 468 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: in international media about some of the uncorroborated medical claims 469 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: and pseudoscience that were contained in the syllabus and study materials. 470 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: And remember, too, the COVID pandemic was kind of at 471 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: its height at this time, and it was actually thought 472 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: by some people that cow dung could cure that too. 473 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: There were videos that spread on news outlets. I'm sure 474 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 1: some of us saw them of people smearing themselves in 475 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: it as a protection against the virus that obviously is 476 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: not a functioning way to handle it. And reactions from 477 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: the medical community were very swift to all of this. 478 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: Indian dermatologists and scientists condemned the material as pseudoscience. Doctor 479 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: ja Jailal said quote, there is no concrete scientific evidence 480 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: that cow dung or urine work to boost immunity. But 481 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: the thing is that study pamphlet wasn't it like a 482 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: fringe thing. It had institutional backing, It was distributed to 483 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: thousands of students, and it highlights this troubling disconnect that 484 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: can happen between traditional beliefs and evidence based medicine and 485 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 1: the very real impact that that gap can have on 486 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: patient care. So we do, though, have to consider the 487 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: context of local sentiments because it does put a little 488 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: bit of this in a different light. Like we said, 489 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people in India consider cow sacred, so 490 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: some of this information may have hit differently to parts 491 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: of that audience than it automatically does to the Western ear. 492 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: But we should not be patting ourselves on the back 493 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: at all. Western culture produces so much pseudoscience with regard 494 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: especially to caring for our skin. Celery juice, raw diets, 495 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: alkaline foods have all been touted online by influencers as 496 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: well as a lot of other stuff who claim that 497 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: they have cured their psoriasis with treatment that really has 498 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: no sense scientific backing. This, I imagine for someone like you 499 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: is the other flip of the coin. It's the other 500 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: side of putting yourself out there online. Do you have 501 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: experienced non doctors who try to help you or diagnose 502 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: you when you have a flare and you share about 503 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: it online. 504 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: Yes, And I appreciate everybody's input, anybody who's willing to 505 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 3: give me their time and whatever they think will help. 506 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 3: And on the topic of cows, tallow is just it's 507 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 3: their fat and it really has helped my skin, just 508 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 3: keeping the cracking away, keeping the flare down. And it's 509 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 3: from Kansas where I'm from. It's Kansas Prairie fire farms 510 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: and it's their beef tallow and I love it and 511 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 3: I use it every day. So yeah, somebody suggested that 512 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 3: to me, a non doctor, and that has been really 513 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 3: helpful to me. 514 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: Have you ever had people though, who like kind of 515 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: tell you, I know what will work for you and 516 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: it is something where you're like, don't do that. 517 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely, Like people have told me like sit 518 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 3: in the sun all day, like the sun will heal you. 519 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 3: It's like, no, it won't heal me. It actually makes 520 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 3: mine a little worse, which I know that they sometimes 521 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 3: do say I was sitting in the sun really heals you, 522 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 3: And that might work for some people, but not me. 523 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 3: So yeah, just all the things like oh, smear honey 524 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 3: on you. I'm like, no, it's gonna make it worse. 525 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: This also brings up the important point that we can 526 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: never assume that what works for one person is going 527 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: to work for somebody else. And of course, finding a 528 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: doctor is crucial, and finding an ally in a doctor 529 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: is crucial, and getting treatment for soriasis, even though as 530 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: evidenced by your story, can sometimes be a very long 531 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: road to find the right doctor for you. And yet 532 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: if you kind of zoom out historically across time and cultures, 533 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: the urge to treat skin disease with whatever tools are available, 534 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: even if they're very strange, starts to make a lot 535 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: of sense. Because siriasis isn't just a medical condition, it 536 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: is something that's visible. You have talked about how it 537 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 1: is stigmatized. It can profoundly affect how people see themselves 538 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: and how other people see them and throughout history this 539 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: also pertains to your story. People with chronic skin conditions 540 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: have often been mistaken for lepers, or they have been 541 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: accused of carrying a contagious disease. We have mentioned on 542 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: the show before that in some medieval towns, people with 543 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: psoriasis were required to wear special garments or even carry 544 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: bells so that people knew they were coming and could 545 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: get away. It really is bad, and even today, I mean, 546 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: people with psoriasis report being stared at or shamed, excluded 547 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: in social settings, or running into some weird person out 548 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: and about who wants to be rude. So it starts 549 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: to make sense when you think about how painful that 550 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: can be. That if someone anyone says that they have 551 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: a cure, a person might be predisposed to listen. And 552 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: then you try the leech paste, you eat the viper broth, 553 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: you consider whatever it is from the sacred cow that 554 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: might work. I like that you actually have a bovine 555 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: based thing that works for you. 556 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 3: Yes, I love cows, so thank you to the cows 557 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 3: that make my beef tallow. 558 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: Thanks. We have, of course, come a long way from 559 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: snake stews, although I mentioned some people still eat snakes too, 560 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: no judgment. Today, dermatologists have an arsenal of specifically and 561 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: scientifically validated treatments, things like topical steroids, phototherapy, and biologics 562 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: that can target specific immune pathways like AL seventeen or 563 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: TNF alpha. We've also talked about those this season, and 564 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: these treatments, if you get the right one, can really 565 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: bring dramatic relief. But the other thing is that access 566 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: to these treatments remains uneven. There's misinformation that persists, and 567 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: stigma still shapes the care that people receive. So when 568 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: we look at all of this, what can we take 569 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: away from this very strange and stinky piece of history. 570 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: First that the line between healing and harming has always 571 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: been a little bit blur, especially when science hasn't yet 572 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: caught up to the suffering that people are enduring. Second, 573 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: that every strange cure was born from a very human 574 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: impulse to soothe and to heal and to feel in 575 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: control of your own body. And then third that even today, 576 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: with all of our scientific progress, we still need to 577 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: ask hard questions about who gets access to evidence based 578 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: care and who still might get handed a vial of 579 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,479 Speaker 1: snake oil. Because while we no longer believe we need 580 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: to rub feces on our skin, at least most of us, 581 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: there are, as your story evidences, a lot of people 582 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: who still feel like they are fighting their condition alone. 583 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: And that is not the case. So hopefully your story 584 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: will help with this. 585 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 3: I hope so even just one person, If just one 586 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 3: single person is inspired by this thoughts, then I've done 587 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 3: my job. 588 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: We do like to always end on a bright note 589 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: here on our skin, although also clearly we're happy to 590 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: indulged the delightfully gross here as well. Yeah, we have 591 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: thankfully come leaps and bounds in our understanding of treating psoriasis. 592 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: What one might have been prescribed even just five or 593 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: ten years ago might be vastly different today. And I 594 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: know it's only been like four years since you had 595 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: your official diagnosis, but have you experienced that already, like 596 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: treatments that were available to you getting more effective, or 597 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: some new thing being introduced that change things. 598 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 3: Definitely. I'm writing this remission that I'm in and literally 599 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 3: just using beef tallow and washing my face with soap 600 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 3: and water and you know, just regular seed to Phil 601 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 3: or Sarah v no fragrance. That's the sensitivity of mine too, 602 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 3: and kind of causes a lot of the rashes. I know, 603 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 3: I just recently talked about beef tallow, but I swear 604 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 3: it's like really helped me, and I use it every 605 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 3: day and every medicine for csoriasis an eggzema, and I 606 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,479 Speaker 3: do use those when I do have a little bit 607 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 3: of flares or if I have patches of skin that 608 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 3: pop up on my face, I'll use them, But for 609 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 3: now I'm just using beef tallow. 610 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 2: That's all I'm using. 611 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: I have two more questions for you. We ask these 612 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: of everybody at the end of every episode. So the 613 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: first is what suggestions do you have for people who 614 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: maybe don't have psoriasis themselves, but they love someone or 615 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: they're close to someone who does. How can they best 616 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: be a help to that person. 617 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 3: First of all, never say stop itching, like people don't 618 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 3: understand we have to, like there's no way, like we can't. 619 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 3: Like it's if you have a flare up, like itching 620 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 3: is like the only thing that provides relief. 621 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 2: A lot of the time, it's the itch that really helps. 622 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 3: I would say, just be supportive, tell them you're there 623 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 3: for them, and ask them if they need anything. I 624 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 3: know it sounds silly, but if their dishes are piling 625 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 3: up like that happens when you can't move yourself because 626 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 3: of your skin condition, let them know that you're there 627 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 3: for them, even if it's just a text and you're 628 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 3: across the world and you just want to say, hey, 629 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 3: I know you're suffering this, and I think that you 630 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 3: need to know that I'm here for you and we're 631 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 3: going to get through this together and like you will 632 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 3: survive this. 633 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: And last, but not least, if you could send a 634 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: message to listeners who are maybe grappling with their own 635 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: diagnosis and kind of coming to terms with it. What 636 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: would that message be. 637 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 3: I know it's hard to do, but don't panic, like 638 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 3: getting in your head and panicking thinking, oh my gosh, 639 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:24,720 Speaker 3: like I'm never going to get. 640 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: My life back? Is this my life forever? 641 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: Why me? 642 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 2: Why me? 643 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 3: Change your mindset in your mind and that's where it 644 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 3: starts too. I will survive this, Like why not me? 645 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 3: Like this is happening for my benefit, Like this is 646 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 3: happening so that I have a unique ability to overcome 647 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 3: really hard times. 648 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 2: Or whatever it is. 649 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 3: You know, you know yourself best, and like that's what 650 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 3: I would tell people is just know that you are 651 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 3: valuable and you're worthy no matter what you have going 652 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 3: on with your health, and just really focus on your mindset. 653 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 3: Is the first place that your healing starts is. In 654 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 3: my opinion, Allison, you are such a darned delight. Thank 655 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 3: you so much for spending this time with me. 656 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,760 Speaker 2: Likewise, Hollie, thank you, it's been a pleasure. 657 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: Our skim is hosted by myself, Holly Frye and executive 658 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: produced and engineered by Ryan Martz. Our executive producer and 659 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: writer is Meredith Barnes. If you enjoy the show, share 660 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: it with your friends. You can also listen and follow 661 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 662 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: your podcasts.