WEBVTT - These Three People Say They Can Fix the Subway 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:05.440 I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:11.360 Cities live and die by housing policy and transportation policy. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:16.240 Everything else is tinkering around the edges. Today, I'm talking 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.240 transit with three people who have thought a lot about 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.720 the current mess that we call the New York City 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:26.880 transportation system. New York City Council speaker and two thousand 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:31.400 twenty one mayoral candidate Corey Johnson Tom Wright, the head 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:37.480 of the century old Regional Plan Association, and journalist Nicole Jelinas, 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:42.440 who's also a scholar of urban economics at the Manhattan Institute. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.000 Johnson wants to blow up the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.760 most basic body in charge of New York transit today. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.440 The mt A board is appointed by the governor. Johnson 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.000 would split off buses and subways into a new agency 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:03.040 called Big app Transit, with the buck stopping clearly with 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:08.480 the mayor meaning him, he hopes. At the Regional Plan Association, 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.600 Tom Wright has spent his career thinking about how to 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.040 improve how cities run. The r p A also wants 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.119 to break up the m t A and fundamentally rethink 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.600 housing and transit in New York. The coolech Alimas is 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.479 the person best suited to keep Corey and Tom's big 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.119 ideas in check. She believes in big changes as much 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.959 as the other two. But for years she has told 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.039 us again and again, we will not get a transit 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.360 system worthy of our great city if we cannot get 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:45.039 costs under control and our financial house in order. The 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:50.080 Metropolitan Transportation Authority is the single most important factor in 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.800 whether New York succeeds or fails. When New York had 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.320 its crises of the late sixties, throughout the seventies, and 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.760 then the early eighties, crisis began with the city losing 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.960 its way and transportation. When the transit system fails, new 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.880 York fails. If you cannot get people to work, get 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.680 people to school, the city's economy does not do well. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.720 It is the mission, and I'll say this to Tom, 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.280 is the mission of the m T A unchanged from 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.600 sixty or how has that evolved since then? The goal 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.040 was to get people on public transportation. Can't move everybody 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.800 around by car? Is the mission the same? Basically? Yeah, 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.800 it basically is. And part of the problem is that 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.320 there was this idea that there would be a synergy 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.320 between having the subways and the buses and the Long 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.680 Island Railroad and Metro North all under one umbrella, and 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.440 that we would have a kind of coordinated, integrated metropolitan system. 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.440 The truth is the m t A it ain't metropolitan 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.679 because it doesn't look at the entire metropolitan region. It 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.399 doesn't pay attention to New Jersey. It ain't really transportation 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.600 because it's only parts of the system. The buses are 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.720 running on city streets. And it isn't really an authority 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.080 because an authority means to those of us in kind 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:03.080 of public service. An authority should be a self funded entity. 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.079 Like the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.359 does not get annual handouts from New York and New Jersey. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.600 It's self financed from the operations, whereas the m t 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.079 A is unable to do that, and so it has 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.079 to go hat in hand every year. Back to see 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.359 the Port Authority is self funny. You're talking about fees 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.120 they charge at the Gates Institute airlines, at the airport. 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.600 It makes an enormous amount of money from the airports 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.280 and people driving across the Hudson River, and it takes 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.600 that money and it runs the airports and those crossings, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.440 and it subsidizes the path system and the Port authority, 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.200 bus terminal and other operations. But they have a huge 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.160 amount of debt, but they're able to to serve it 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.760 with the cash flow that they generate on what percentage 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.000 is debt service? Oh, we're gonna get to that. I 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.840 think the same as it's it's it's lower than the 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:49.680 m T as I'm pretty sure Nicoles the expert on 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.560 these issues. Yeah, I haven't looked at the port throw 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.800 in a while. I think it's around temper. That's what 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.920 I would half of what the right now some would wonder. 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.360 And again you can educate us about this as well, Nicole. 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.800 At one point in the seventies and the Ford to 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.200 New York dropped dead period where the city files for bankruptcy, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.880 the city goes into receivership with Albany. Albany is in 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:11.960 charge and the city can't really do very much of 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:13.880 what it wants to do in these large projects and 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.160 and and beyond that. And I'm not trying to point 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.080 a finger at City Hall or Albany, but was was 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.599 it as bad before the receivership in seventy five or 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.359 to get it to get worse once Albany was calling 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.039 all the shots in the city. It got a little 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.840 bit worse after nine and then it started to get better. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.240 The subway system failing was part of what led up 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:40.400 to New York's financial distress and to take over essentially 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.120 by Albany and the federal government of New York's finances 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:49.040 for quite a long time actually, and the problem with 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.159 New York City's approach to the subway and bus system 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.760 is that from the nineteen forties well into the nineteen 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.280 sixties and seventies, the city's focus was on keep the 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.000 fair down. There was a nickel fair for a long time. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.520 Then it went up to a dime. It was less 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.479 and less able to cover the operating costs. But mayors 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:13.280 from Wagner to lindsay for very good reason, they wanted 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.400 to keep the fair low because they wanted poor people, 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.640 working class people, middle class people to stay on the subway. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.640 They thought, if we right, if we increase the fair 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.680 too much, more people are going to leave the city. 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:27.320 They're going to get in their cars and go to 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.520 the suburbs. But the problem with the focus on the 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.720 fair was that there was no focus on capital investment. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.960 That they needed to increase the fair and they needed 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.640 some tax revenues to buy new subways, air conditioned subways. 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.520 We're gonna have to raise money at some point, right 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.080 buy new buses, repair the tracks, repair the same When 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.600 did they start doing that, well, they that changed in 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:54.039 the early nineteen eighties when finally trains were breaking down 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.640 every twenty thousand miles, very frequent for someone to be 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.080 kicked off the subway train and be stuck on the 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.680 platform because the doors on the train wouldn't close, and 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.960 so very frustrating commutes for people. And in the early 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.160 nineteen eighties, uh Dick Ravitch, who was the mt A 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.920 chairman at the time, convinced the governor convinced the state 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.120 legislative slature in Albany that they needed to approve a 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.880 package of taxes to support the m t A start 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.520 to rebuild the capitol. Yes, and the business community was 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:27.919 on board with this, and it was a signal to 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.159 New York that we're not going to give up on 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.200 the city. We're gonna double down and we're gonna rebuild 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.400 the physical infrastructure that the city needs to thrive again. 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.159 And starting in the eighties, as soon as they made 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.640 these first investments, population of the city started to grow, 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.360 tax based started to grow again, and that was the 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.599 only thing that made it possible for us to turn 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.440 around the crime situation and other problems starting in the 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.880 early nineties. How would you describe Let me ask this 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.120 to Corey, what's the city's relationship to Albany now? But 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.599 it's still in the same position. It wasn't seventy No, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.400 I mean, there was a financial control board that was 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.000 put in place to oversee New York City, and the 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.839 financial control it still exists. It hasn't been phased out. 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:10.800 But we are not in the same position in any 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.720 way as we were now. We are the economic engine 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.320 for New York State. And I've been on the City 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.640 Council for five and a half years. I was elected 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.440 in two thousand and thirteen, and the first budget process 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.800 that I went through in the middle of two thousand 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.720 and fourteen, our city's budget was around seventy three billion 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.600 dollars with a B. The upcoming budget we're voting on 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.400 in the next couple of weeks is now ninety two 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.600 and a half billion dollars, almost twenty billion dollars in 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.920 growth in less than six years. It used to not 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.120 be that way, and the times that we're talking about, 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.560 what the financial crisis, with the subways deteriorating, with Central 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:48.960 Park being an unsafe place, and so now we give 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.240 more to Albany every year than we get back, just 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.760 like the exactly as New York ss the Washington We 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.600 are a donor city to Albany, and New York State 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.360 is a donor state to Washington. And so now part 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.320 of the reason why it's happened since a great recession 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.760 in two thousand and nine, when there was a major downturn, 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.440 we've seen seven and eighty thousand private sector jobs created 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.200 in New York City, unemployments at an all time low 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:18.040 three point nine percent, Tourism the highest level ever recorded 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.200 last year at over sixty six million tourists. So if 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.000 you looked at New York City on a piece of paper, 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.080 by the numbers, you would say, hot, damn, the city 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.360 is doing really well. But when you dig into the 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.760 finances of the m t A, when you look at 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.280 the number of homeless children in our school system, if 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.720 you look at what's happening, uh, just on poverty numbers 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.080 in New York City, there is still a long way 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.800 to go. But I think, as Nicole and Tom both said, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.400 the future of New York City, the way we can 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.400 gain further economic growth is through investing in mass transit. 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.000 It's the lifeblood of New York City. And the m 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.840 t A has become a political hot potato where if 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.280 something good happens, people stand up and say I'm in charge, 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.400 and when something bad happens, they say it not me. 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.000 Go to that board that no one knows a single 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.280 person who serves on the board, and blame it on them. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.800 And the m t A is far too important to 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.840 be put in the middle like that, which is why 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.439 I'm grateful we have someone like Andy Byford, who was 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:15.720 a world class guy, who has come in and I 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.160 think is moving the system in the right direction. Let 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.400 me let me highlight that. I mean, in the seventies 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.760 and eighties and nineties you were talking about those bad 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:24.720 old days, and I remember Central Park when you didn't 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.560 go in after dusk. Back then, for every ten jobs 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.240 created in the metropolitan region around New York City kind 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.440 of southwestern Connecticut, Long Island, northern New Jersey, nine of 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.559 them were outside New York and one of them was 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.480 inside New York City. It was a suburbanizing economy, is 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:41.840 Nicole was talking about. New York was trying and failing 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.320 to compete with the suburbs, and that's where all of 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.680 the growth of jobs and prosperity was occurring for the 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.560 last ten years, not only as New York suddenly caught 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.719 up with the rest of the region. Today, nine out 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.240 of ten new jobs created are in the five boroughs 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.800 of New York City, and it's parts of northern New 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.839 Jersey and Long Island and Connecticut that aren't keeping up. 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.120 And so this this economic boom has been really terrific 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.400 for the city and its finances, but still all many 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.080 controls things. I mean, we just passed, you know, congestion pricing, 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.200 which we think is a great policy, which will mean 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.600 that people will pay to drive into Manhattan south of 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.000 sixtieth Street, and that will generate money from mass transit. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.280 And that's all very well and good, But the truth 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.599 is the city had no control over this. It was 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.960 up to Albany, and it was up to legislators in 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.720 Buffalo and Niagara to decide whether or not that's right. No, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.240 of course it's not right. But it's a legacy of 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:32.960 this of the bankrupt and I want to go around, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.679 and I want to go around the room. And I'll 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.480 continue with you, Tom. And that is about congestion pricing. Now, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.240 I think congestion pricing is a horrible idea. I think 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.280 it's an awful idea. And the reason I think it's 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.760 an awful idea is it punishes people who It's a continuation, 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.600 in my mind of my least favorite condition of living 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.439 in New York, and that is the residents of New 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.760 York come last. People who live here and this is 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.719 their home, and they pay taxes to live here as 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.920 citizens of the Five Bros. They come dead, asked in 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.480 the decisions that are made. And congestion pricing should not 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.800 punish a person who lives in the Five Brooks. But 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.400 if you live along Island or Rockland, or Philly or Delaware, 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.160 they're commuting from all these different places to come to 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:12.960 New York to do a business. And you're gonna ride, 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:14.800 single person in the car, We're gonna hit you so 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.040 hard you're gonna pass out with the with the charge. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.440 What's wrong with that idea? Basically, what's going through is 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.840 very consistent with what you said. Most of the people 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.560 who are driving into Manhattan south of sixtieth Street are 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.520 coming from Westchester, from Fairfield County, from Nassau County. That's who. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.560 That's the vast majority of the people who are going 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.120 to be paying into the system in the first place, 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.079 and right now they've been getting a free ride. And 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.480 worse than that, there are some routes that are charged 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:40.800 and others that are free, and so a lot of 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.920 them are doing what we call toll shopping, and they're 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.800 driving out of their way to get in through the 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.800 free Brooklyn Bridge. A quarter of the people on the 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.440 b Que this morning, really we're coming from South Brooklyn, 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.120 and the most direct route for them to get into 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.319 Manhattan would have been the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, but instead 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.079 they drove across the b Que to get over to 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.600 the Brooklyn Bridge and take the free crossing in. It 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.920 makes no sense right now. As Tom said, if you 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:09.040 take the Battery Brooklyn Tunnel you currently pay a toll, 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.800 but if you take the Brooklyn Manhattan or Williamsburg Bridge 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.240 you don't pay a toll. If you take the Lincoln 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.920 Hall and Tunnel you do pay a toll. So it 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:21.040 was a piecemeal, screwed up approach that we're trying to 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.600 bring some sanity to and the real questionnaires. You have 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.320 to make these difficult public policy decisions when you have 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.680 a system that is failing and needs a permanent revenue 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:38.120 stream and six sixplomatic parking too. Well, they've got the money, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.520 but but six million people take the subways and busses 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.760 every single day. And there's been an analysis done. If 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.520 you look at Queens and Brooklyn and the Bronx SAT 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.680 now is different because they don't have an extensive rail system. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.679 But if you look at the three outer boroughs, the vast, vast, 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.839 vast majority of people that are coming into Manhattan every 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.480 single day below sixty Street are currently doing it by 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.400 subway already. So let's improve the subway service with a 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:10.080 reliable revenue stream for those people. Yes, what Corey and 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.760 Tom say is correct if and this is a big if, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:18.880 if the m t A implements congestion pricing correctly on 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.360 both sides of the equation, cutting congestion and spending the 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.920 money on projects that actually improved the transit system. On 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:32.240 the congestion side, they're already overwhelmed with requests for exemptions. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.640 The people who work for the m t A, they 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:41.679 wanted a congestion an exemption for the congestion charge exactly, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.000 not just when they're on duty, but just when they're 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:48.920 driving to their workspace. The undergoing to set exactly. Other 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:54.359 other city unions are going to want the same exception exceptions, police, fire, santation, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.640 teachers driving their private cars into the city are going 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.440 to want to be exempt from this charge. And you 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.440 know they do wonderful work. But everyone who works in 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.680 the city does wonderful work, private sector, public sector, low paid, 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.280 well paid. If we give one exemption, you almost have 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.040 to approve them all because everyone has some reason why 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:14.960 they shouldn't pay the charge. I mean we all do 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.880 so either do no exemptions or don't have the program. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.920 The number of exemptions that are being lobbied for right now, 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.520 congestion pricing will look like a gigantic piece of Swiss cheese. 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.360 It would be like every thing that happens in New York. 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.720 The tour bus operators are asking for one is if 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.400 they don't cause any traffic congestion. Now are the web 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.720 of contractors who are bidding for mt A projects, not 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.440 just the Second Avenue debaccle, but other things like that. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.119 Is it a kind of a uh, the usual suspects 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.640 that are coming, Like what prevents a person in charge 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.400 Albany or city Hall to turn around and fire every 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.640 single one of them and say, you know what I'm 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.640 gonna do. I'm gonna get housing in New Jersey. I'm 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.160 gonna bring a bunch of Amish people here. But Robert 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.280 Moses had them pitched ten on the frozen Zack's Bay 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.640 and the workers work through the dead of winter. So 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.080 the beach house that Joe, I mean, I read Carol's book, 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.800 so the Jones Beach could open on time for that summer. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.360 I'm not sure we're going back to that. I wouldn't 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.080 go back to that. I would have them pitch tents 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.720 on the frozen reservoir in Central Park May They're gonna 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.440 all live there. But my point is is what's gonna stop. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.280 What's going to stop the hemorrhage of the sickening contract 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.920 Because as we all know, certain politicians, mostly north of 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.160 the city have a have a very sweetheart relationship with 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.040 the unions and want them to and want to appease them. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.600 What's your answer for how we lower these costs? Everybody 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.560 benefits from the current system except for the average New Yorker. 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.320 The contractors benefit because a lot of the global contractors, 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.960 the companies that are actually good at doing this in 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.320 France and Spain and Japan, they won't bid on our 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.120 projects because the system just intimidates them, and rightly so 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.800 whenever they bid, for example, they're afraid of our union 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.520 work rules. France, Germany, Japan, all countries with first world's 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.480 work rules. They treat their workers well in terms of healthcare, 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.520 in terms of working conditions, but they don't have the 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:19.000 byzantine work rules that are rich. In the end, it 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.320 takes political leadership, like if you look at the Long 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.400 Island railroad work rules for example, that are pushing up 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.160 over time, where people are making quintuple their incomes in 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.880 their last few years of work by essentially working around 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.000 to manipulate. Yeah, these are due to the work rules. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.080 Their work rules have been enshrined in the contracts for 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.360 fifty years. In order to change them, the governor or 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.160 the mayor, if we put the mayor in charge of 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.880 them right now, the governor in the governor's responsibility to 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.960 address that. The governor has to decide he'll take a 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.080 strike that he's willing to take. The uh. Short term 0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:00.240 pain of people having a much more difficult time vents 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.600 him from firing every single one of them and replacing 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.360 them with the starting another car. What prevents an emergency 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.600 financial measure in which a state where city entity gets 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.000 sit there and go, we just don't have the money anymore. 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.800 I really don't care how you feel about it. You 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.600 work for us. I'm not asking you what to do. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.879 I'm telling you what to do. Right do than that 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.600 happen In the end, it comes down to the political 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.600 willingness and donations from those unions. A short term hit. 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.760 It's not even so much donations. I mean, Cuomo is 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.720 very close to the Transport Workers Union, which is the 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.240 subway and bus union. Not so much because he needs 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.239 the money, although money is always useful, but because he 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.760 wants the votes. This is a very reliable voting block. 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.160 A vote is worth a lot of money goes hand 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.280 in hand with a vote is worth a lot more 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.000 than a dollar. I mean, they spend dollars four votes, 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.280 So if you can get the votes directly, that's much 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.159 better from the governor's perspective. Tw this union helped the 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.720 governor tremendously during his primary fight with Cynthia Nixon a 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:01.479 few years ago. But I just want to jump in here, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.399 and I'm not saying I don't believe this is what 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.679 Nicole was saying, But I want to be clear. I 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.120 don't think I think it would be easy to scapegoat 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.520 and vilify the workers who work on the subways and 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.520 buses every single day. And for a lot of these folks, 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.600 this has been a pathway to the middle class, to 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.320 a pension, to healthcare. And I don't think they're the 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.000 real problems here. I think part of the problem here 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.679 is that you've had at the m t A for 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:32.119 years and years and years major major mismanagement. You haven't 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.520 had oversight on contracting. I'll give one primary example, east 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.000 Side Access, which is the UH MEGA project which going 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:46.040 to connect UH, yes, exactly UH. And that project is 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.280 eleven billion dollars over budget. Eleven billion dollars over budget. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.639 It's not eleven billion dollars over budget because of the 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.600 subways and bus workers. It's because of the broken, collusive 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.560 contracting system and bid system that exists. The amount to 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.600 re signal the entire subway system so that we could 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.320 have state of the arts signaling and cut down and 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.560 delays is nine billion, So we could have taken that 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.320 eleven billion dollars in the cost overrun and already re 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:17.080 signaled the entire system. The Brooke closer to exactly. We 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.760 can't even have a conversation right now about expanding the 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.600 subway system. You've got a few stations and Second Avenue, 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.440 you've got the one station at Hudson Yards, which was unique. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.000 But you can't have a conversation about the Utica extension 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.600 in Brooklyn and the other places to expand where they're 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.040 transit deserts when you get have two fresh meadows in 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:38.280 South Brooklyn and other places. Because we are constantly treading 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.439 water and trying to just keep things going, and you 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.160 can't have a conversation going forward and provide a little 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.720 more context. Eric Garciti the mayor of Los Angeles right now, 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.040 he was able to pass by selling it to the 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.920 voters a multibillion dollar bond on subway expansion. Now l 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.159 a Is, you know, is not a subway city, but 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.040 they're trying to become one. Rama Manuel just left office 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.439 in Chicago and one of the highlights of his final 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:09.160 term was improving subway service there. Andy Biford was in Toronto, Sydney, London, 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.320 places where they did this type of expansive work, and 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.960 we can't have that conversation in New York because of 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.440 how broken the system is. Now let me just interject, 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:22.680 you announced your running from mayor, and of course I 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:27.439 don't fault you for wanting to not scapegoat the union 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.880 transit workers and say that the problem was more the 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:35.840 contracting process and so forth. But nonetheless, many unions get 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:37.600 into that whole gouging thing where it's like, you know, 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.280 quadruple overtime to the last three years to get the 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.000 sweetheart pension. Do you agree that's got to stop? Yeah? 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.160 But part of the problem right now, and this has 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.159 been I think part of the issue at the very 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.119 public fight you've seen on the mt A board and 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.320 with the governor on the long unmoored overtime. It's hard 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.159 to defend those overtime numbers. But these these are the 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.560 overtime rules that the m t A set up themselves. 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.800 So the union is taking advantage of the rules that 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.760 were given to that. But I appreciate that. I'm saying, 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.800 if you set up a set of rules, of course 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.400 they're not going to say no. But eventually someone's got 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.399