1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the thing. 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Cities live and die by housing policy and transportation policy. 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: Everything else is tinkering around the edges. Today, I'm talking 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: transit with three people who have thought a lot about 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: the current mess that we call the New York City 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: transportation system. New York City Council speaker and two thousand 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: twenty one mayoral candidate Corey Johnson Tom Wright, the head 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: of the century old Regional Plan Association, and journalist Nicole Jelinas, 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: who's also a scholar of urban economics at the Manhattan Institute. 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: Johnson wants to blow up the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: most basic body in charge of New York transit today. 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: The mt A board is appointed by the governor. Johnson 13 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: would split off buses and subways into a new agency 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: called Big app Transit, with the buck stopping clearly with 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: the mayor meaning him, he hopes. At the Regional Plan Association, 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Tom Wright has spent his career thinking about how to 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: improve how cities run. The r p A also wants 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: to break up the m t A and fundamentally rethink 19 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: housing and transit in New York. The coolech Alimas is 20 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: the person best suited to keep Corey and Tom's big 21 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: ideas in check. She believes in big changes as much 22 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: as the other two. But for years she has told 23 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: us again and again, we will not get a transit 24 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: system worthy of our great city if we cannot get 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: costs under control and our financial house in order. The 26 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: Metropolitan Transportation Authority is the single most important factor in 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: whether New York succeeds or fails. When New York had 28 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: its crises of the late sixties, throughout the seventies, and 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: then the early eighties, crisis began with the city losing 30 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: its way and transportation. When the transit system fails, new 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: York fails. If you cannot get people to work, get 32 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: people to school, the city's economy does not do well. 33 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: It is the mission, and I'll say this to Tom, 34 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: is the mission of the m T A unchanged from 35 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: sixty or how has that evolved since then? The goal 36 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: was to get people on public transportation. Can't move everybody 37 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: around by car? Is the mission the same? Basically? Yeah, 38 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: it basically is. And part of the problem is that 39 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: there was this idea that there would be a synergy 40 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: between having the subways and the buses and the Long 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: Island Railroad and Metro North all under one umbrella, and 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: that we would have a kind of coordinated, integrated metropolitan system. 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: The truth is the m t A it ain't metropolitan 44 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 1: because it doesn't look at the entire metropolitan region. It 45 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 1: doesn't pay attention to New Jersey. It ain't really transportation 46 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: because it's only parts of the system. The buses are 47 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: running on city streets. And it isn't really an authority 48 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: because an authority means to those of us in kind 49 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: of public service. An authority should be a self funded entity. 50 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: Like the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey 51 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: does not get annual handouts from New York and New Jersey. 52 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: It's self financed from the operations, whereas the m t 53 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: A is unable to do that, and so it has 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: to go hat in hand every year. Back to see 55 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: the Port Authority is self funny. You're talking about fees 56 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: they charge at the Gates Institute airlines, at the airport. 57 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: It makes an enormous amount of money from the airports 58 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: and people driving across the Hudson River, and it takes 59 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: that money and it runs the airports and those crossings, 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: and it subsidizes the path system and the Port authority, 61 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: bus terminal and other operations. But they have a huge 62 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: amount of debt, but they're able to to serve it 63 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: with the cash flow that they generate on what percentage 64 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: is debt service? Oh, we're gonna get to that. I 65 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: think the same as it's it's it's lower than the 66 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: m T as I'm pretty sure Nicoles the expert on 67 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: these issues. Yeah, I haven't looked at the port throw 68 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: in a while. I think it's around temper. That's what 69 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: I would half of what the right now some would wonder. 70 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: And again you can educate us about this as well, Nicole. 71 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: At one point in the seventies and the Ford to 72 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: New York dropped dead period where the city files for bankruptcy, 73 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: the city goes into receivership with Albany. Albany is in 74 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: charge and the city can't really do very much of 75 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: what it wants to do in these large projects and 76 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: and and beyond that. And I'm not trying to point 77 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: a finger at City Hall or Albany, but was was 78 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: it as bad before the receivership in seventy five or 79 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: to get it to get worse once Albany was calling 80 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: all the shots in the city. It got a little 81 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: bit worse after nine and then it started to get better. 82 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: The subway system failing was part of what led up 83 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: to New York's financial distress and to take over essentially 84 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: by Albany and the federal government of New York's finances 85 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: for quite a long time actually, and the problem with 86 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: New York City's approach to the subway and bus system 87 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: is that from the nineteen forties well into the nineteen 88 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, the city's focus was on keep the 89 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: fair down. There was a nickel fair for a long time. 90 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: Then it went up to a dime. It was less 91 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: and less able to cover the operating costs. But mayors 92 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: from Wagner to lindsay for very good reason, they wanted 93 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: to keep the fair low because they wanted poor people, 94 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: working class people, middle class people to stay on the subway. 95 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: They thought, if we right, if we increase the fair 96 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: too much, more people are going to leave the city. 97 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: They're going to get in their cars and go to 98 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: the suburbs. But the problem with the focus on the 99 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: fair was that there was no focus on capital investment. 100 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: That they needed to increase the fair and they needed 101 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: some tax revenues to buy new subways, air conditioned subways. 102 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to raise money at some point, right 103 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: buy new buses, repair the tracks, repair the same When 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: did they start doing that, well, they that changed in 105 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties when finally trains were breaking down 106 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: every twenty thousand miles, very frequent for someone to be 107 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: kicked off the subway train and be stuck on the 108 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: platform because the doors on the train wouldn't close, and 109 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: so very frustrating commutes for people. And in the early 110 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, uh Dick Ravitch, who was the mt A 111 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: chairman at the time, convinced the governor convinced the state 112 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: legislative slature in Albany that they needed to approve a 113 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: package of taxes to support the m t A start 114 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: to rebuild the capitol. Yes, and the business community was 115 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: on board with this, and it was a signal to 116 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: New York that we're not going to give up on 117 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: the city. We're gonna double down and we're gonna rebuild 118 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: the physical infrastructure that the city needs to thrive again. 119 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: And starting in the eighties, as soon as they made 120 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: these first investments, population of the city started to grow, 121 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: tax based started to grow again, and that was the 122 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: only thing that made it possible for us to turn 123 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: around the crime situation and other problems starting in the 124 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: early nineties. How would you describe Let me ask this 125 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: to Corey, what's the city's relationship to Albany now? But 126 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: it's still in the same position. It wasn't seventy No, 127 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: I mean, there was a financial control board that was 128 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: put in place to oversee New York City, and the 129 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: financial control it still exists. It hasn't been phased out. 130 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: But we are not in the same position in any 131 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: way as we were now. We are the economic engine 132 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: for New York State. And I've been on the City 133 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Council for five and a half years. I was elected 134 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: in two thousand and thirteen, and the first budget process 135 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: that I went through in the middle of two thousand 136 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: and fourteen, our city's budget was around seventy three billion 137 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: dollars with a B. The upcoming budget we're voting on 138 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: in the next couple of weeks is now ninety two 139 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: and a half billion dollars, almost twenty billion dollars in 140 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: growth in less than six years. It used to not 141 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: be that way, and the times that we're talking about, 142 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: what the financial crisis, with the subways deteriorating, with Central 143 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: Park being an unsafe place, and so now we give 144 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: more to Albany every year than we get back, just 145 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: like the exactly as New York ss the Washington We 146 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: are a donor city to Albany, and New York State 147 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: is a donor state to Washington. And so now part 148 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: of the reason why it's happened since a great recession 149 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, when there was a major downturn, 150 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: we've seen seven and eighty thousand private sector jobs created 151 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: in New York City, unemployments at an all time low 152 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: three point nine percent, Tourism the highest level ever recorded 153 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: last year at over sixty six million tourists. So if 154 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: you looked at New York City on a piece of paper, 155 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: by the numbers, you would say, hot, damn, the city 156 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: is doing really well. But when you dig into the 157 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: finances of the m t A, when you look at 158 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: the number of homeless children in our school system, if 159 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: you look at what's happening, uh, just on poverty numbers 160 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: in New York City, there is still a long way 161 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: to go. But I think, as Nicole and Tom both said, 162 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: the future of New York City, the way we can 163 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: gain further economic growth is through investing in mass transit. 164 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: It's the lifeblood of New York City. And the m 165 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: t A has become a political hot potato where if 166 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: something good happens, people stand up and say I'm in charge, 167 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: and when something bad happens, they say it not me. 168 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: Go to that board that no one knows a single 169 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: person who serves on the board, and blame it on them. 170 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: And the m t A is far too important to 171 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: be put in the middle like that, which is why 172 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: I'm grateful we have someone like Andy Byford, who was 173 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: a world class guy, who has come in and I 174 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: think is moving the system in the right direction. Let 175 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: me let me highlight that. I mean, in the seventies 176 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: and eighties and nineties you were talking about those bad 177 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: old days, and I remember Central Park when you didn't 178 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: go in after dusk. Back then, for every ten jobs 179 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: created in the metropolitan region around New York City kind 180 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: of southwestern Connecticut, Long Island, northern New Jersey, nine of 181 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: them were outside New York and one of them was 182 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: inside New York City. It was a suburbanizing economy, is 183 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: Nicole was talking about. New York was trying and failing 184 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: to compete with the suburbs, and that's where all of 185 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: the growth of jobs and prosperity was occurring for the 186 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: last ten years, not only as New York suddenly caught 187 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: up with the rest of the region. Today, nine out 188 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: of ten new jobs created are in the five boroughs 189 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: of New York City, and it's parts of northern New 190 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: Jersey and Long Island and Connecticut that aren't keeping up. 191 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: And so this this economic boom has been really terrific 192 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: for the city and its finances, but still all many 193 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: controls things. I mean, we just passed, you know, congestion pricing, 194 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: which we think is a great policy, which will mean 195 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: that people will pay to drive into Manhattan south of 196 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: sixtieth Street, and that will generate money from mass transit. 197 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: And that's all very well and good, But the truth 198 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,599 Speaker 1: is the city had no control over this. It was 199 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: up to Albany, and it was up to legislators in 200 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: Buffalo and Niagara to decide whether or not that's right. No, 201 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: of course it's not right. But it's a legacy of 202 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: this of the bankrupt and I want to go around, 203 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: and I want to go around the room. And I'll 204 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: continue with you, Tom. And that is about congestion pricing. Now, 205 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: I think congestion pricing is a horrible idea. I think 206 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: it's an awful idea. And the reason I think it's 207 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: an awful idea is it punishes people who It's a continuation, 208 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: in my mind of my least favorite condition of living 209 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: in New York, and that is the residents of New 210 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: York come last. People who live here and this is 211 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: their home, and they pay taxes to live here as 212 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: citizens of the Five Bros. They come dead, asked in 213 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: the decisions that are made. And congestion pricing should not 214 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: punish a person who lives in the Five Brooks. But 215 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: if you live along Island or Rockland, or Philly or Delaware, 216 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: they're commuting from all these different places to come to 217 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: New York to do a business. And you're gonna ride, 218 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: single person in the car, We're gonna hit you so 219 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: hard you're gonna pass out with the with the charge. 220 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: What's wrong with that idea? Basically, what's going through is 221 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: very consistent with what you said. Most of the people 222 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: who are driving into Manhattan south of sixtieth Street are 223 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: coming from Westchester, from Fairfield County, from Nassau County. That's who. 224 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: That's the vast majority of the people who are going 225 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: to be paying into the system in the first place, 226 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: and right now they've been getting a free ride. And 227 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: worse than that, there are some routes that are charged 228 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: and others that are free, and so a lot of 229 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: them are doing what we call toll shopping, and they're 230 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: driving out of their way to get in through the 231 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: free Brooklyn Bridge. A quarter of the people on the 232 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: b Que this morning, really we're coming from South Brooklyn, 233 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: and the most direct route for them to get into 234 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: Manhattan would have been the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, but instead 235 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: they drove across the b Que to get over to 236 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Bridge and take the free crossing in. It 237 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: makes no sense right now. As Tom said, if you 238 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: take the Battery Brooklyn Tunnel you currently pay a toll, 239 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: but if you take the Brooklyn Manhattan or Williamsburg Bridge 240 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: you don't pay a toll. If you take the Lincoln 241 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: Hall and Tunnel you do pay a toll. So it 242 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: was a piecemeal, screwed up approach that we're trying to 243 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: bring some sanity to and the real questionnaires. You have 244 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: to make these difficult public policy decisions when you have 245 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: a system that is failing and needs a permanent revenue 246 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: stream and six sixplomatic parking too. Well, they've got the money, 247 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: but but six million people take the subways and busses 248 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: every single day. And there's been an analysis done. If 249 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: you look at Queens and Brooklyn and the Bronx SAT 250 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: now is different because they don't have an extensive rail system. 251 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: But if you look at the three outer boroughs, the vast, vast, 252 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: vast majority of people that are coming into Manhattan every 253 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: single day below sixty Street are currently doing it by 254 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: subway already. So let's improve the subway service with a 255 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: reliable revenue stream for those people. Yes, what Corey and 256 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: Tom say is correct if and this is a big if, 257 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: if the m t A implements congestion pricing correctly on 258 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: both sides of the equation, cutting congestion and spending the 259 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: money on projects that actually improved the transit system. On 260 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: the congestion side, they're already overwhelmed with requests for exemptions. 261 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: The people who work for the m t A, they 262 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: wanted a congestion an exemption for the congestion charge exactly, 263 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: not just when they're on duty, but just when they're 264 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: driving to their workspace. The undergoing to set exactly. Other 265 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:54,359 Speaker 1: other city unions are going to want the same exception exceptions, police, fire, santation, 266 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: teachers driving their private cars into the city are going 267 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: to want to be exempt from this charge. And you 268 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: know they do wonderful work. But everyone who works in 269 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: the city does wonderful work, private sector, public sector, low paid, 270 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: well paid. If we give one exemption, you almost have 271 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: to approve them all because everyone has some reason why 272 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: they shouldn't pay the charge. I mean we all do 273 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: so either do no exemptions or don't have the program. 274 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: The number of exemptions that are being lobbied for right now, 275 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: congestion pricing will look like a gigantic piece of Swiss cheese. 276 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: It would be like every thing that happens in New York. 277 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: The tour bus operators are asking for one is if 278 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: they don't cause any traffic congestion. Now are the web 279 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: of contractors who are bidding for mt A projects, not 280 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: just the Second Avenue debaccle, but other things like that. 281 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,119 Speaker 1: Is it a kind of a uh, the usual suspects 282 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: that are coming, Like what prevents a person in charge 283 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: Albany or city Hall to turn around and fire every 284 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: single one of them and say, you know what I'm 285 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: gonna do. I'm gonna get housing in New Jersey. I'm 286 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: gonna bring a bunch of Amish people here. But Robert 287 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: Moses had them pitched ten on the frozen Zack's Bay 288 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: and the workers work through the dead of winter. So 289 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: the beach house that Joe, I mean, I read Carol's book, 290 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: so the Jones Beach could open on time for that summer. 291 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: I'm not sure we're going back to that. I wouldn't 292 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: go back to that. I would have them pitch tents 293 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: on the frozen reservoir in Central Park May They're gonna 294 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: all live there. But my point is is what's gonna stop. 295 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: What's going to stop the hemorrhage of the sickening contract 296 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: Because as we all know, certain politicians, mostly north of 297 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: the city have a have a very sweetheart relationship with 298 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: the unions and want them to and want to appease them. 299 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: What's your answer for how we lower these costs? Everybody 300 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: benefits from the current system except for the average New Yorker. 301 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: The contractors benefit because a lot of the global contractors, 302 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: the companies that are actually good at doing this in 303 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: France and Spain and Japan, they won't bid on our 304 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: projects because the system just intimidates them, and rightly so 305 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: whenever they bid, for example, they're afraid of our union 306 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: work rules. France, Germany, Japan, all countries with first world's 307 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: work rules. They treat their workers well in terms of healthcare, 308 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: in terms of working conditions, but they don't have the 309 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: byzantine work rules that are rich. In the end, it 310 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: takes political leadership, like if you look at the Long 311 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: Island railroad work rules for example, that are pushing up 312 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: over time, where people are making quintuple their incomes in 313 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: their last few years of work by essentially working around 314 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: to manipulate. Yeah, these are due to the work rules. 315 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: Their work rules have been enshrined in the contracts for 316 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: fifty years. In order to change them, the governor or 317 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: the mayor, if we put the mayor in charge of 318 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: them right now, the governor in the governor's responsibility to 319 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: address that. The governor has to decide he'll take a 320 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: strike that he's willing to take. The uh. Short term 321 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: pain of people having a much more difficult time vents 322 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: him from firing every single one of them and replacing 323 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: them with the starting another car. What prevents an emergency 324 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: financial measure in which a state where city entity gets 325 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: sit there and go, we just don't have the money anymore. 326 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: I really don't care how you feel about it. You 327 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: work for us. I'm not asking you what to do. 328 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: I'm telling you what to do. Right do than that 329 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: happen In the end, it comes down to the political 330 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: willingness and donations from those unions. A short term hit. 331 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: It's not even so much donations. I mean, Cuomo is 332 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: very close to the Transport Workers Union, which is the 333 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: subway and bus union. Not so much because he needs 334 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,239 Speaker 1: the money, although money is always useful, but because he 335 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: wants the votes. This is a very reliable voting block. 336 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: A vote is worth a lot of money goes hand 337 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: in hand with a vote is worth a lot more 338 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: than a dollar. I mean, they spend dollars four votes, 339 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: So if you can get the votes directly, that's much 340 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: better from the governor's perspective. Tw this union helped the 341 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: governor tremendously during his primary fight with Cynthia Nixon a 342 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 1: few years ago. But I just want to jump in here, 343 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying I don't believe this is what 344 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: Nicole was saying, But I want to be clear. I 345 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: don't think I think it would be easy to scapegoat 346 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: and vilify the workers who work on the subways and 347 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: buses every single day. And for a lot of these folks, 348 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: this has been a pathway to the middle class, to 349 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: a pension, to healthcare. And I don't think they're the 350 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: real problems here. I think part of the problem here 351 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: is that you've had at the m t A for 352 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: years and years and years major major mismanagement. You haven't 353 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: had oversight on contracting. I'll give one primary example, east 354 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: Side Access, which is the UH MEGA project which going 355 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: to connect UH, yes, exactly UH. And that project is 356 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: eleven billion dollars over budget. Eleven billion dollars over budget. 357 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: It's not eleven billion dollars over budget because of the 358 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: subways and bus workers. It's because of the broken, collusive 359 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: contracting system and bid system that exists. The amount to 360 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: re signal the entire subway system so that we could 361 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: have state of the arts signaling and cut down and 362 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: delays is nine billion, So we could have taken that 363 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: eleven billion dollars in the cost overrun and already re 364 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: signaled the entire system. The Brooke closer to exactly. We 365 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: can't even have a conversation right now about expanding the 366 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: subway system. You've got a few stations and Second Avenue, 367 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: you've got the one station at Hudson Yards, which was unique. 368 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: But you can't have a conversation about the Utica extension 369 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn and the other places to expand where they're 370 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: transit deserts when you get have two fresh meadows in 371 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: South Brooklyn and other places. Because we are constantly treading 372 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: water and trying to just keep things going, and you 373 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: can't have a conversation going forward and provide a little 374 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: more context. Eric Garciti the mayor of Los Angeles right now, 375 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: he was able to pass by selling it to the 376 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: voters a multibillion dollar bond on subway expansion. Now l 377 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: a Is, you know, is not a subway city, but 378 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: they're trying to become one. Rama Manuel just left office 379 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: in Chicago and one of the highlights of his final 380 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: term was improving subway service there. Andy Biford was in Toronto, Sydney, London, 381 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: places where they did this type of expansive work, and 382 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: we can't have that conversation in New York because of 383 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: how broken the system is. Now let me just interject, 384 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: you announced your running from mayor, and of course I 385 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: don't fault you for wanting to not scapegoat the union 386 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: transit workers and say that the problem was more the 387 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: contracting process and so forth. But nonetheless, many unions get 388 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: into that whole gouging thing where it's like, you know, 389 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: quadruple overtime to the last three years to get the 390 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: sweetheart pension. Do you agree that's got to stop? Yeah? 391 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: But part of the problem right now, and this has 392 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: been I think part of the issue at the very 393 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: public fight you've seen on the mt A board and 394 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: with the governor on the long unmoored overtime. It's hard 395 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: to defend those overtime numbers. But these these are the 396 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: overtime rules that the m t A set up themselves. 397 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: So the union is taking advantage of the rules that 398 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: were given to that. But I appreciate that. I'm saying, 399 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: if you set up a set of rules, of course 400 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: they're not going to say no. But eventually someone's got 401 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: to say no. I have found that in most instances, 402 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: at least recently. And it's different now because economic times 403 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: have been going well, so the city has a lot 404 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: of money. But most unions are willing to make a sacrifice, 405 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: and there is a trade that gets involved. They may 406 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: take a hit on healthcare, but they don't want to 407 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: bag a hit on the pensions. It's always a sort 408 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: of a little bit of a trade back and forth. 409 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: And I think if you sit down and you have 410 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: a conversation and you say this is what we need 411 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: and the public understands what the need is, I think 412 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: most times, uh, most of the union leaders are willing 413 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: to do that. I think John Samuelson at t W 414 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: is actually a pretty pragmatic guy and he's someone that 415 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: you can work with. He's not someone who's out there 416 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: being irresponsible. And I think you need to sit down, 417 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: get around at table. But again, I want to get 418 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: back to the big thing here, which is the m 419 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: t A is set up to deflect any level of accountability. 420 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: So we can talk about all these super important issues 421 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: on repairing, contracting, and on negotiating with unions and expanding 422 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: the subway system. But until you get down to the 423 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: fundamental issue of singular accountability and responsibility, everyone is always 424 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: going to be able to point fingers, which is why 425 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: I called for municipal control. I agree with you piggybacking 426 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: on that the roads in the city, and it is appalling. 427 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: The roads are better in Lima, Peru than they are 428 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: in New York City. They finished fiction the roads on 429 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: my block, and two weeks after they had the gutted, pitted, 430 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: bombed out preparations done, and then and they went and 431 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: laid the roads on their Two weeks later they started 432 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: cutting it up for some utility start of chopping it 433 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: up again. I had a meeting about this yesterday, this 434 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: fairy topic not and not to get too granular, but 435 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: one of the big issues if we're talking about contracting 436 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: that New York City is run into, is that when 437 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: you want to restripe the roads after the paving, you 438 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: can't restripe the roads for weeks, which is like the 439 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: most basic thing a government should be able to do 440 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: in a city. Can't why because none of the striping 441 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: is done by the city. The striping is done by 442 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: outside private contractors who have set up a collusive industry 443 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: on how to gouge the city by all working together. 444 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: And so these are big issues that affect basic municipal services. 445 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: New York City Council Speaker Corey Johnson with him our 446 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: Regional Plan Association President and CEO Tom Wright, and journalist 447 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: Nicole Jelinas. If you like thinking about how New York works, 448 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: you'll love my conversation with Martin Horne, who has had 449 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: just about every job imaginable in New York City corrections, 450 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: including head of the prison system, which led him to 451 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: some unusual opinions. I would legalize drugs across the board. 452 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: You would legalize which all of them? You would legalize 453 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: old rugs? Yes, that's a pretty well well, I wouldn't 454 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: say that. I wouldn't say that while I worked for 455 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: a governor or a mayor who was an elected definition. 456 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you say that then as opposed to now 457 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: because I had a mortgage debate. The rest of my 458 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: conversation with Martin Horne at Here's the Thing Dot Org. 459 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 460 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: I'm joined by journalist Nicole Jelinas, New York City Councils 461 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: Speaker Corey Johnson and Tom Wright, President and CEO of 462 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: the Regional Plan Association. Right in the middle of another topic, 463 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: just had to turn back to the insane amount New 464 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: York pays to build and maintain its subways. I have 465 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: to hit this issue on why things cost so much. 466 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: It's impossible to defend the work rules of the unions 467 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: and some of the things that drive up the cost. 468 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: We've got to get more competition and with contractors and 469 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: other things, but the entire system is broken from front 470 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: to end. The procurement process in New York State is 471 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: so ridiculous that contractors will be hired to build a 472 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,479 Speaker 1: piece of the Second Avenue subway. They will know that 473 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: it's going to change, but it's going to take a 474 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: year for the procurement process to effectuate that change. So 475 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: they build something knowing that at the end of it 476 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: they're going to be told to rip it up and 477 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: rebuild it again under some new way. But they have 478 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: to do it, and the contractors if they don't do 479 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: all the time, all the time. There were thousands of 480 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: change orders on the Second Avenue Subway in the last 481 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: year or two to opening it up as subway. All 482 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: of these things subway. Here's another example of one running 483 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: the Number one line through the World Trade Center site. 484 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: It was a kind of historic achievement of the MTA 485 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: to restore that service, and then the mt A basically 486 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: said to the Port Authority, you can rebuild this new 487 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: path station at Fulton, but you're going to continue to 488 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: run our subway through it. The cost of doing that 489 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: was hundreds of millions of dollars, when any rational situation 490 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: would have looked at and said, you know what, we're 491 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: going to shut this down for a couple of months 492 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: and we're gonna then rebuild the whole thing and it 493 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: will save us an enormous amount of money. But essentially 494 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: you had kind of the m t A and the 495 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: Port Authority, both state entities, kind of saying, well, it's 496 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: not my dollars, so I don't care. You just have 497 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: to go do it. And that's the kind of failure 498 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: of the eleven billion dollar overrun that Corey talks about 499 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: with east Side Access close to a half a billion dollars. 500 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: Because New York State has ridiculous insurance protections. I'm sure 501 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: that if we just adopted the California protections that people 502 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: would still have plenty of protection here in New York, 503 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: but we add hundreds of millions of dollars to the 504 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: cost CUOMO rated the subways state of good repair money 505 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: for pet projects. Correct, is that on a yeah? Well 506 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: when did that happen? Well, you were very critical of 507 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: thattor we were, we were critical of The truth is, 508 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: depreciation is not just a kind of financial accounting idea. 509 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: It is cables giving out, it is wheels giving out. 510 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: And it's not sexy, it doesn't add it doesn't give 511 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: you a big ribbon cutting. But those kinds of basic 512 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: investments in the system have to keep going. And that's 513 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: what God got it. And that's what we saw over 514 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: the last decade or so, kind of money being taken 515 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: out of and that's what suddenly led to the situation 516 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: of the crisis and Nicole. If you were given some 517 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: czar like position of the biggest cost controls that you 518 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: would implement, what would you do? More transparency? And I 519 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: know that that's a cliche, but I'll give you a 520 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: couple of specific examples of a project's cost is buying 521 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: materials meant steel. These are global commodities and the global 522 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: price is known. You can look in the newspaper and 523 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: see what's the going price for especially right, But these 524 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: are part of these contracts where the contractors go to 525 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: subcontractors and buy the materials, and so the cost of 526 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: the raw materials is not known by the public. Every 527 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: single materials purchase, the volume and the price should be 528 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: disclosed to the public and benchmarked to a global index. 529 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: So well, why isn't it because the system as it 530 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: is benefits everybody. But contractors should not be making a 531 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: profit on the portion of the contract that involves materials 532 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: purchases because they're not adding any right, they're they're not 533 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: they're not adding any value to that, so they do 534 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: get a markup on it, but they shouldn't. That's one 535 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: thing is making sure that there's not a lot of 536 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: padding and corruption in the materials purchase process. And the 537 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: other thing would be all of these construction contracts between 538 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: the contractors and the construction unions iron workers union, steel workers, carpenters, 539 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: all of these contracts should be public right now. The 540 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: contractors and the unions keep these contracts in these work 541 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: rules private because they say these are just arrangements between 542 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: private parties. I mean, if Tom and I signed contracts, 543 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: really nobody's business. But in this case, the public is 544 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: the final payer. If the m t A is spending 545 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: twelve billion dollars on the East Side Access Project five 546 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: billion dollars on the Second Avenue subway, the public should 547 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: know every single one of these work rules, and each 548 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: work rule should have a cost item next to it. 549 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: This costs US fifty million dollars a year. Just getting 550 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: those two pieces of information would get us a long 551 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: way to reform because all of these things are connected. 552 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: You know, someone might say Long Island Railroad Union has 553 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: nothing to do with construction unions. But if one set 554 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: of unions gives up something, the other sets of unions 555 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: knows that it has to give that thing up to 556 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: t W is never going to sign a deal that 557 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: is less generous the Long Island Railroad contract because one 558 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: side looks like a chump, one side looks like you've 559 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: got a better deal. So all of these things have 560 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: to everybody right all down together. Um, Now for Corey, 561 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: just to change the arc here just a bit, what 562 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: would you do if you want to improve the city's 563 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: relationship with the governor. Well, I would say that I 564 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: don't want to be presumptuous, but I think one of 565 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: the things that you need to do in politics and 566 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: in life is you need to be able to relate 567 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: to people and to maybe use a little bit of 568 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: charm sometimes. What what do I may that? I mean 569 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: that in a hollow, empty way. What I mean is, 570 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: I think part of the job of being mayor of 571 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: the City of New York is when you saw at 572 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: Cotch standing at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge during 573 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: the transit strike, shaking people's hands. There was a little 574 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: bit of theater involved when you see people out there 575 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: when you're screaming how am I doing. Part of what 576 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: the job of mayor is is making sure the city 577 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: is running in the right way, so that you don't 578 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: have homeless encampments, so that the subway isn't breaking down 579 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: every day, and you're working with Albany to get that done. 580 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: See that you don't have a hundred and ten thousand 581 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: homeless children during one point of the year in the 582 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: City of New York. You need to work on those issues, 583 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: but you also have to be a cheerleader for the 584 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: City of New York. You have to do both of 585 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: those things. And I think if you do that, if 586 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: the if the public relates to you in that way, 587 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: not just on an operational level, but they like you. 588 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: They like how you're championing and cheerleading New York. I 589 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: go around last night. I spoke at the y m 590 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: C A galat Cipriani Street, and I stood up and 591 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: I said, New York City is the greatest city in 592 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: the world. We are the city that gave the world 593 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: j Lo and Barbara streisand we are the city that 594 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: is the holes. We are the city of the home 595 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: of the lemon Ice, King of Corona. We are the 596 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: city with the Statue of Liberty not that far from me, 597 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: or the torch is a beacon to immigrants and refugees, 598 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: sam seekers. I think the disconnect is in that budget 599 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: number I gave you from seventy three billion dollars to 600 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: billion dollars, nineteen billion dollars in revenue growth in five years, 601 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: and you still have people who feel like they're being screwed. 602 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: You still hear that money coming from the economy. The 603 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: economy has been hosting You've seen prosperity. So if you again, 604 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: if you look at seven eighty thousand private sector jobs, 605 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: three point nine percent unemployment, the highest number of tourism ever, 606 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: recorded crime, homicides, and an all time low since nine 607 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: when crime numbers started to get reported. And New Yorkers 608 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: right now, the mayor is not getting credit for that 609 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: because you actually do need to cheer lead those things. 610 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: But you need to cheer lead those things and at 611 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: the same time say, I know that it is totally 612 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: screwed up that we have a record homeless population New 613 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: York City, that nights is crumbling, public housing is crumbling 614 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: before our eyes, that the subways are in a state 615 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: of disrepair, and that I'm going to go out there 616 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: and use all of that record growth that we've seen 617 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: to address this crisis. Uh. There are things that I 618 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: don't agree with Michael Bloomberg on, like the third term, 619 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: but he said something which I do agree with him on. 620 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: He said it, and this is why I was a 621 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: critic of the Amazon deal. He said, if you want 622 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: to attract businesses and jobs to New York City, you 623 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: need to do three things. Number one, you need to 624 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: have low crime. Number two, you have to improve the 625 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: school system. And number three, and that's what we're talking about, 626 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: you have to invest in infrastructure and public spaces. If 627 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: you do those three things, businesses will come to New York, 628 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: people will come to New York, and the economy will grow. 629 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: And the disconnect is, with twenty billion dollars in growth 630 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: just in our city's budget in five and a half years, 631 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: that prosperity is not being felt. And people are like, 632 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: how come the trash cans are overflowing on my corner? 633 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: How come public housing as fall? How come the street 634 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: sweepers can't have a camera on their truck and when 635 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: they pull up behind you and you haven't moved, they 636 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: take a picture, email it to the traffic post and 637 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: you get a ticket. But I want to say, but 638 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: I want to say, well, I mean, I'm don't get 639 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: me started by how much I want to point the 640 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: finger at Albany. But what did our pa think of 641 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: the Amazon deal? We were supportive of the Amazon deal. 642 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: I will admit, UH don't love the idea of of 643 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: public finance incentives, although most of the ones that they 644 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: were talking about were ones that are readily accessible to 645 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: any company that's coming in. And I think that there 646 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: should be a re examination of that entire of that 647 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 1: entire situation. Everybody that I know that lived out there 648 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: said this thing is going to come out here and 649 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: the speculative buying of of of housing is going to 650 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: drive all of our costs through the roof and ruin 651 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: our neighborhood. That's true. But I want to add one thing, 652 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: not to check on Tom Google, who what is about 653 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: twenty five blocks north of where we're sitting in the studio, 654 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: which is the biggest employer in my council district. They've 655 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: created the most fifteen thousand jobs in the last decade. 656 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: How much subsidy and incentiment they received from the City 657 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: of New York zero. So if you do in a 658 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: precedential nature saying to Amazon, we're gonna give you two 659 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: point three billion dollars in non discretionary subsidy and incentive 660 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: and a five hundred million dollar cash grant which could 661 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: go to the subway system. By the way, a five 662 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: or a million dollar cash grant to build your headquarters. 663 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: What's going to keep Goldman, Sachs, JP, Morgan, Chase, Google, Facebook, 664 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: name a company to come back three years from now. 665 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: Would say we want the same deal Amazon, that I 666 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: can't defend these kinds of deals. And I can remember 667 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: when Governor Pataki essentially because because I would say right 668 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: now that's kind of the way the game is played. 669 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: The rules of the game ought to be changing. But 670 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: I do think that that was what was on the table. 671 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: But isn't right now the time to change the game. 672 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: If not now, when I mean the Amazon deal was 673 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: a classic nineties seventies massive subsidy to build buildings. In 674 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: the seventies under Mayor Lindsay. Under Mayor Beam, these things 675 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: were more understandable because people were fleeing the city. No 676 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: one wanted to locate their business here. We had to 677 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: give something away just to keep some kind of the core. 678 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: Today the problem is the opposite. We don't have catastrophic 679 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: failure anymore. We have a catastrophe fixed success, and so 680 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: to be giving subsidies away when we need every last 681 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,760 Speaker 1: tax dollar for the infrastructure just doesn't make any sense. 682 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: Amazon has been their entire business model for twenty two 683 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: years has been to avoid paying their taxes. Often legally, 684 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: you know they're not breaking the law, but they don't 685 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: want to pay taxes. In Texas, they never wanted to 686 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,879 Speaker 1: pay the sales taxes, and so they were competing unfairly 687 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: with bricks and mortar retailers for years and years, and 688 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: this was just another game that they were playing. They 689 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: miscalculated this one and they sort of took their blocks 690 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,720 Speaker 1: and went home. And so the city will be fine 691 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: without Amazon, but only if we stick to Corey's three things. Actually, though, 692 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: in the absence of an Amazon and a kind of 693 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: large growth there, what's most likely to happen is it's 694 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: going to convert to what's been happening, which is residential development, 695 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 1: which is more residential on the waterfront and people moving 696 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: in there and then trying to cram onto the subways 697 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: to get into jobs in Manhattan. What we need to do, actually, 698 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: and I think Nicole's the jobs out there is put 699 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: the jobs out there. Nicole's come and catastrophic success is 700 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: absolutely right. Wasn't it done in the Bronx? They wet 701 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: to be well? Hell, look, and this might be an 702 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: athema here. I think if Amazon had gone to New Wark, 703 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: it would have been even better. Also way too much, 704 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: you know, actually kind of spreading those jobs around so 705 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: that we take advantage the trains run in both directions, 706 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: and we ought to be taking full advantage of the 707 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: capacity that we have by balancing growth. And yes, the 708 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: Bronx is the place where be even better for them 709 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: to go than the Amazon should still come to New 710 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: York City. I want them to come. There is office 711 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: space available down in Lower Manhattan at the World Trade Center. 712 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: There is office space available at Hudson Yards. It hasn't 713 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: been leased up yet. There is office space available. It's 714 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: going to be available in Midtown East where we just 715 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: rezoned it for more class A office space. There is 716 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: a glut of office space available. Amazon should come to 717 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: New York City. They should play by the same rules 718 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: as everyone else, Google and other Fortune five companies that 719 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: don't get a hunger games like sweetheart deal. The European 720 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: Union bans these type of contests. They should come here, 721 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: and they should come and they should say, wherever we're going, 722 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: we want to invest in that local subway station and 723 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: improve it and make it better for our workers. We 724 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: want to be a good corporate citizen in New York City. 725 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: I'm not against Amazon coming in New York City. I'm 726 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm against setting up this hunger Games like contest which 727 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: doesn't benefit the city real quickly give me uh the 728 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: next mayor. In terms of the problems with the m 729 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,280 Speaker 1: t A, the next mayor should do what's their first 730 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: priority or two. The next mayor's got to come and 731 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: make sure congestion pricing gets implemented in the right way, 732 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: and make sure that we fully fund Andy Byford's fast 733 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: Forward plan, because that's the right plan. He needs forty 734 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: billion dollars to do it, and we can't be nickel 735 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: and diming him on that s your idea, I think, 736 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: someone who is contemplating a run from mayor, I think 737 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 1: you need to come up with big, bold, creative, outside 738 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: the box ideas. Bloomberg did it when he called for 739 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: mayor control the school system, to Blasio did it when 740 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: he called for universal pre k. I think the future 741 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: of New York City, the lifeblood of our economy, is stabilizing, transforming, 742 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: expanding our mass transit system. And so I think we 743 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: need now a better governance model, singular accountability, not a 744 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: deflective model, which is what the m T. A. Garners 745 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: right now by the way it's set up. And so 746 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: I think we have talked about municipal control of the 747 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: subways and busses tied in to a master plan of 748 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: the streets of New York City. In London, the person 749 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: that oversees the tubes and the buses is also the 750 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: Department of Transportation commissioner who oversees the city street. How 751 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: would you plan to do that with when you become there? Well, 752 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: typically it's okay. In two thousand and one, when Bloomberg one, 753 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: he got mayoral control in the first six months of 754 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: his first term. When to I think there's a little 755 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: bit of a mandate that is given to a new 756 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: mayor after they've won if they have run on a 757 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 1: big idea, and if this is also a part if 758 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: they have convinced the public it is the right thing 759 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: to do ahead of time, which typically they have if 760 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: they've won the mayorw election. And I think that's one 761 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: of the big things. So I'm gonna keep talking about 762 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: municipal control, transforming our streets, breaking our call culture, focusing 763 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: on pedestrians and cyclists, and having a livabol city. And 764 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,359 Speaker 1: I saw that. I have to mention that I saw 765 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:21,839 Speaker 1: that on your phone. You were getting a call from 766 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: Andy Biford, who we begged to do the show, who 767 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: stiffed us, but being British, he did it in the 768 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: most elegant where he stiffed us in a really plummy 769 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: and very very English way. You're big ideas for the 770 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: m T and Nicole. The next mayor should be riding 771 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: the subways and the buses every day and should be 772 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: walking the streets. We we need much faster bus service, 773 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: which means we need zero tolerance for double park cars, 774 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: double park trucks. Every single one of these vehicles should 775 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: be slapped with a ticket every single time they violate 776 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: the bust lane. We need more bike lanes to the 777 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: extent that we can get people. Road closure. Well that yeah, 778 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: that's another process. Yeah. I think parts of Fifth Avenue, 779 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: Madison Avenue, Sixth Avenue, these avenues should be for buses, 780 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: bicycles and for Yellow times Yellow taxis because Yellow taxis 781 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 1: already paid the congestion fee and in terms of paying 782 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: a million dollars in some cases for the medallion. And also, 783 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: at some point, you know, fifteen years in the future, 784 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: a free autonomous bus that does a fixed route that 785 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: comes every minute, so if you're going by Rockefeller Center, 786 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: no private cars and things like we pedestrianized Times Square. 787 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: That's been a success. If we hadn't pedestrianized Times Square, 788 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: we would have to do it today because of the 789 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: risk of vehicle terrorism. We should be doing more of 790 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: that in Rockefeller Center in Lower Manhattan. But coming back 791 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: to the mt A, the one thing that the mayor 792 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: controls now is the streets. Use the streets for much better, 793 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: faster bus service, and if the MTA doesn't provide it, 794 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: hold them accountable. I would have alternate side of the 795 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: street delivery. So if you're on the east side of 796 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: the street or the north side of the street, it's Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 797 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: and your deliveries on the other side there's Tuesday, there 798 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: is a Saturday. To cut down there. We want people 799 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: to have their goods delivered, but they can't do it 800 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: whenever they want to. I mean the double parking. I mean, 801 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: I'll name one company who's more egregious than UPS. They 802 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: pull their truck over the open grave while you're at 803 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: your mother's funeral. If they could, they would like to 804 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,839 Speaker 1: move to a district system and and look UPS could 805 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: actually be part of the solution there. I'll throw that 806 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: out there. UPS would like to be biking the everything 807 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: within a couple of blocks, but they got to work 808 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: with the city and the management of the streets just 809 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: hasn't been there. But I want to just finish by saying, obviously, 810 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: thank you, to all three of you. We could have 811 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: gone on and on and and and and served into 812 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 1: other topics. But thank you well because in my lifetime 813 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 1: I have never seen people in New York more demoralized 814 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: it used to be. There was it seemed that there 815 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: was a plan when you built buildings. Were at another 816 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: one of those stages where we're tearing down ten or 817 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: fifteen percent of the city. I'm an exaggerate perhaps to 818 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: build new things, but knew what since you brought up 819 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,400 Speaker 1: the construction. That's another problem with the streets. These construction 820 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: companies that are building these super tall towers, they only 821 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: pay a hundred and fifty dollars a month to close 822 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: off the whole lane of the street, sometimes for two 823 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 1: and three years briskly. They should be paying market price 824 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: for closing that lane of street and get the building 825 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: build faster. If you can't do it faster, than you've 826 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: got to pay this money, and a good chunk of 827 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: that money should go towards the transit. I think if 828 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: you become the mayor of New York, she should have 829 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: some huge position and he should be yours. That was 830 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 1: Corey Johnson, Nicole Jollinas, and Tom Wright. This is Alec Baldwin, 831 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: and you're listening to Here's the Thing