WEBVTT - Superintendent Series: Brendan Byrne on Llanerch and Philly Cheesesteaks 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:05.119 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Podcast. Today's 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:09.080 episode is brought to you by Toro. For more than 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.680 a century, with cutting edge turf equipment and irrigation solutions, 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.200 Toro has had your front nine covered and your back 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.680 nine two. In fact, Toro's always had your back period. 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.000 Toro is as committed to your long term success as 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.000 tour pros are committed to their shot. That's down to 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:29.040 top notch customer support from Toro and its dedicated local distributors, 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.800 both of whom are passionate about delivering turf equipment and 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:37.240 irrigation solutions that solve real world problems. Follow at Toro 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.800 Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:46.239 distributor today. Today's podcast is with Brendan Burn. Brendan is 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:51.320 the longtime superintendent and co GM at Lanark Country Club 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:57.040 in Philadelphia. Lanner has recently undergone a big time renovation 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.960 from Brian Schneider and then with the help of blay 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.080 Conan doing shaping with Brian, they have completely transformed the 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:08.120 golf course. So I got to see this place last 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.800 year when it was halfway done. They did each nine 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:15.679 at each time and Brendan was obviously extremely involved in 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.880 this process from both the club side as the GM 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.880 and then also as a superintendent. And he has been 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:28.319 around Philadelphia for decades. Legendary superintendent in Philadelphia. So without 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.480 further ado, here is Brendan and thanks for listening. I 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.280 miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.320 find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:38.800 And when I find my ball in a. 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.600 Brid egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg. 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:42.040 Friday. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:45.679 Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the 0:01:45.680 --> 0:02:12.240 golf course. It was it hard to break the single cart. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.360 Oh, it was really brutal. It was so funny because 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.080 at every club I would talk to other super intense 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.560 and he said all the members wanted to play in 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.120 one cart, but when they went to have a drink 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.760 that there was no COVID around the bar, and then 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:28.960 they could sit together. So that was kind of the joke. 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.640 And then eventually once people started getting vaccinated, they were 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:32.160 fine with it. 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.480 That's funny. It's it's not good for the golf course 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.440 having the dual carts or the individual car. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.440 We do seventy five percent of rounds with carts on 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.280 one hundred and nineteen acres. So like I say, like 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.359 I had a member, goes really did that much damage? 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:50.880 I go, what happens if you laid down and ran 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.320 a cart ever you oh that feel? It would hurt right, 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:56.600 And he started laughing. I go, that's what you're doing 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:57.839 to the grass every day. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.400 You could tell them to just go park car on 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:01.480 their front line. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.960 Right, a parker car or take let us put let 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.000 us out and run over it on the blacktop. See 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.359 what looks like it's mashed. That's exactly what you're doing. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.519 But it's such a source of revenue. And now everybody's 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.480 in a rush to play and get done in three 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:18.760 hours and thirty minutes. The carts are faster sometimes now 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.639 they're good here this club. I've been employed with a 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.600 lot of clubs. This club's really good. They are like 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.080 three thirty here. They don't play around. They play golf. 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:26.360 It's a small place. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.440 It is, but it's hard. They play reddy. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.560 Golf here nineteen acres. 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.600 Well one hundred and twenty nine altogether. But the you know, 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:37.440 the clubhouse in the parking lots and the pool take 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:38.040 up some spots. 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.000 Yeah, what are You've got the pros of being you know, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.600 or the continents of being small for cars? What are 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.640 what are the pros from from a job in turf standpoint, there. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.160 Is no pros because there you you would think, well, 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.280 it's smaller, so you wouldn't need as much. But we 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.240 have all like so we have we're caught in half 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.440 by a road, so those perimeters have to be maintained. 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.600 We have perimeters around all both both nine so all 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.000 of them have to be hand mode or weed waxed or. 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.160 So their labor socked, landscaped. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.000 Yeah, it's just maintaining the perimeters in itself for a battle. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.000 So we have a lot of nooks and crannies. But 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.479 then like when you are doing like course set up, 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:21.200 there's only so many places you can put the cup, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.960 only so many places you can put tea markers, only 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.280 so many places you can put the put the carts. 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.760 Where do you start your career in turf? 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:35.200 Rolling? Green? With my two brothers and oh my lord, 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:36.800 nineteen eighty. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:37.960 Six, are you from here? 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.120 I grew up in Delaware County, Delca. Yeah, I'm a 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:42.599 Delca kid, Springfield. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.400 So your two brothers were they younger or older? 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.279 Older one was really smart and got out of the business. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.120 The other one's dumb, and it's a superintendent just like me. 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:53.080 Where's he at. 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.359 He's up at Cherry Valley, New Jersey. He's older than me. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.680 He's the nicer version of me. Everybody tells me. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:03.160 He has both In out of the armpit of of 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:04.600 America in the summer. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.040 It seems like three four degrees cooler. He has it easy. 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:12.120 He's good superintendent. He's a great guy. He's just a Yeah. 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.840 It's a big difference. I take that we would. 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.919 Would you say I have the thing about winter being fake, 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.400 Like I think you guys have fake winter. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.800 Oh in Philadelphia, Yeah, like you could go we have skits, 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:28.320 we have schizophrenic winter. 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.040 But like you can go play golf, like in January. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.880 Oh in February too, Like this is the first time 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.640 we had snowed a long time. Now they'll play like 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.360 these guys here, they'll play all year rounds. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.200 And then there's like five days a year that are 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.320 like really cold and they all freak out. Or like 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.480 New York City's the worst. They get like three snowstorms 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.880 a year and it's like the world's ending. It's like 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.160 when did you come to Chicago? 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.080 Like I love snow. It gets some everybody to give 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.120 the course a break. It's like a blanket. But here, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.520 I don't know, if you know about Philadelphia, they have 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.359 like a huge winter play thing. So even at our club, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.800 you can play in groups as big as sixteen somems. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.800 So they just all play at once and then they 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.039 do all this like gambling stuff. They have a great time. 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.040 I'm like, fine, whatever, just put two cups in olk 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.160 green and say play fake winter, fake winter, except for 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.000 the grass doesn't like your carts in fake winter. 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.160 But then then now people are saying that I have 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.320 fake summer. Would you agree with that? Because you have 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.040 real summer I have. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:29.600 I have Southeast Asia summer. I have like humidity. I mean, 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.040 I like to say, since I started, was you you 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.120 could take all the cities along the East coast and 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.280 move them down to a city and heat. So boss 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.000 used to be really cold. Now it's like New York. 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.440 New York's like Philly, Philly's like Washington, DC. Baltimore, and 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.240 DC is like Raleigh. It's that's the change I've seen 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.679 in thirty years, that each city has gotten progressively warmer 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:51.719 than what it was when I started thirty five years ago. 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:53.120 That's kind of wild. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.320 It makes sense if you think about it. So when 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.120 you saw the other thing you saw was we used 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:00.640 to have a little bit of rain, a little bit 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.120 of rain, hot drought, a little bit of rain, big storm, 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.359 little rain than these seasons. Ever, now we get drought, 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:13.360 huge storm drought, huge storm drought. The little storm is 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:14.040 almost gone. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:16.600 How does that impact what you do? 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.760 It's it's devastating because what happens is all that water 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.360 displaces auction in the soil profile, so the grass starts 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.600 to like basically simmer and it can't breathe. So you're 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.200 always constantly venting the soil so that you can get 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.880 auxygen back into it because of the water, So we 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.360 use wedding agents because that's what makes water wetter, so 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:38.760 we can move the water faster. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.680 Hey, I want to go back to Rolling Green going 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.400 there with your brother. I do you have like a 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.120 story that you remember the boast from that, like just 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:51.920 going over. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.640 This we were one time we were we were doing 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.120 dibbits on number twelve. It's kind of an iconic hold 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.200 because the call the ground's maintenance is on the hillside 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:03.840 and there's this big old stone mansion. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.440 It's like, yeah, it's cool. 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.800 It's haunted too. All the greenekeepers that live there would 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.840 say it used to be like an old militia guy 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.640 there from the seventeen hundred's apparently it's long story, but 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.920 any other time, Yeah, this one is definitely for real, 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.720 asked Brian Chapin. I'll tell you. So we were doing 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.040 divots in the rain and we proceeded. My brother thought 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.320 it was funny to proceed to throw uh divot mix 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.480 at me, and we end up starting like the three 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.520 of us having a huge divot and it was mushroom 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:36.640 sotel which stunk like hell, and you could make it 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.280 into balls, and we just threw it at each other 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.960 for like ten to fifteen minutes. Of members was just laughing. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.880 So it's covered in divot mix. I wasn't very happy. 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.959 I was the youngest too, so I lost something. 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.000 That would only happen with brothers, Like three Red Maintenance. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:52.920 Start doing just throwing mix each other. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.760 On number twelve, would you guys walk there? 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.800 Yeah? We walked. Yeah, we walked to work. My father 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.800 was like as soon as we were like fifteen sixty, 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:03.839 he was like, get to work, go walk because there's 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.400 a club across the street. Just go walk. He just 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.040 find something to do. So I try to get a 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:10.800 job in the kitchen or something. They're like, no, we 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.679 need greenkeepers. So I went down and walked down the 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:19.400 hill and here I am. Yeah, that's that's because I 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.719 got rejected from being a bus boy. That's that's. It's 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.040 not a great It's not a romantic story, now, is it? 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.040 Those who can't bus tables? 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.960 You go green camp? Yeah? It was weed whacking craigs, 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.920 but it's funny. I ended up meeting Jim Ronney who's 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.640 at Soakon Valley now. He was with me. We whack 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.559 and creeks. And then I got to know a lot 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.080 of great people, and I've been very fortunately. I worked 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:45.839 with a lot of guys that now have become really 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:46.760 good superintendents. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.600 That's how you joined the wolf back. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.600 Yeah, change jates. I picked Ncy State for a couple 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.400 of reasons. My mom and dad were big into education, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:56.760 and a lot of people were just getting two year 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.000 certificates in turf and they were both adamantly against it. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:01.600 They were like, you need to go get a degree 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:03.520 in agronomy, Like you need to know not how to 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.080 do it, but why and you need to understand the science. 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:10.120 And so I'm like, well, I got to take like biology, chemistry, 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.559 physics and all this stuff. And they're like, yeah, well 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.920 that's that's what you need to do. And so that's 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.240 what I went and got a degree in agronomy from there. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:23.240 And also State was cool because it was you had 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.040 both cool season and m worm seasoned grasses rate on 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.480 the same piece of land. You don't get that at all. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.920 The Northern Universities say, look at bermuda, like that's like 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:32.400 something that's like in a book. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.880 So that's a that's a big advantage for huge. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:40.160 So I learned how to use gross centipede and uh, 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.719 you know, like bermuda and all that. But I had 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.440 bent grass and tall fescu right next to me, so 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.280 you could see all those grasses. So like now, because 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.280 the climate change, we're using bermuda on the on some 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:52.920 of the range. To you, I'm like, oh, well, I 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:54.480 did a bermuda grass grow and I know what the 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:55.599 story is of bermuda. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:57.520 So then it just goes dormant and then you go 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:58.840 to matt when it gets cool. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.480 Yeah, it does go dormant. But now they're getting so 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.080 much better it lasts longer. The veriees just keep getting 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.199 better and better, so it lasts lot longer. You can 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.240 overseed it with poetryvialis or like rye grass, so you 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.040 can get more of his extended season out of it. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.640 And then you got zoyja on the bunkers. Yeah, you 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.280 got all kinds of grasses out here. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.520 Yeah, so the Zeysa, see, are you. 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:19.800 The grass king of Philly? 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.280 No, nobody wears that ground. There's a lot of there's 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:25.079 a lot of really good superintendents here. I mean you 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:25.880 can go up the street. 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.440 I'm saying, do you have more grasses than anybody else? 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.760 I probably do. I probably the only guy in the 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.800 here that has bermuda zeyja bent. But I really don't 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.199 have any pola i polla in the rough because we 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.520 fumigated an four and since then we really haven't had 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.720 so much moth. But the Zeusa had no choice. Brian 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.760 Schneider comes in and builds these bunkers. They're awesome, but 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.440 they're so the slope is so steep, and we did 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.280 the first bunker. I'm looking at with my one assistant, 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.720 I go, what are we going on this? He's like, 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.240 I don't know, I said, it's all to die find 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.880 esk and fall apart. Is what do you want to do? 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.000 So we're gonna use Sousia. We changed everything. I'm like, 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.040 we gotta go find Soysia. So we found Xenith and 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:07.480 then that's when we started doing the Zenith. 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.280 Then you have to cut them different, right, you. 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.800 Weed welcome, you can go out there there. The funny 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.720 thing is is that they're a heck of a lot 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.679 less maintenance. They hardly need any water, they don't want 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.400 any nitrogen. After the second year, they don't get any weeds. 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.080 They choke it out, balls don't stick to them. I 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:24.680 love them. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:26.040 Sounds ideal. 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.920 It is. Brian wasn't really a big fan of it 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.200 because of the color contrasts in the fall or in 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.320 the winter. But it's cool because when you mow them, 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.480 like at the end of September, you can get them 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.520 like really be smooth, and then it gets cold and 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.520 then they don't they don't move, so the whole winter 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.679 they're kind of like that. And then in the in 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.760 January you can sprain with roundup and it kills all 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.120 the weeds. If there's any weeds in them, you can 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:50.160 kill it because it's normant. 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.560 After NC stage, you stay down in Carolina for a while. 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.640 Now I went right back up and did. I got 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.719 it a growing job as a spray technician at Heartfelt 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:07.480 National with that was a Fassier design, And ironically my 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.640 brother became superintendent like fifteen years later after I was there. 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:12.840 So I went there, and then I went to the 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:13.960 country club at Brookline. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.760 How was how was that? What years were you at Brookline? 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.280 I was in Brookline for the beginning of the real 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.920 restoration before the ninety nine Rider Cups. That was like 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.680 mid nineties. That was after I interned at Marion, then 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.080 did growing in North Carolina, and then did then went, Yeah, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.520 I went up to Brooklyn. Brookline was great because it 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.760 was just like it was cold. I was like, Wow, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.000 it's not really that hot here, you know what I mean? 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.120 Did you feel like it was fake summer? 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.520 It was fake summer. They didn't even I don't even 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:42.959 know if they had any hoses. I'm like, you guys 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:44.760 have hoses. You got a water to grass here? You know? 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:46.920 They thought eighty two degrees is like a hot day. 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.680 My god, it's gonna one hundred and seven today. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.000 What uh? What was it like? Getting ready for a 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.160 Ryder Cup. You know, was that a cool experience? It is? 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.800 You know, I hear some super say they like just 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:05.760 get obsessed with the tournament, golf aspect of it and 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.240 the pressure of that. Did you Was that something that 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:10.880 that captured your interest at all? 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.760 Or well? I was. I was employed by a really 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.560 good superintendent, and Bill Spence he had already done He 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:21.240 was a superintendent like Hominy Hills. He was at Pebble Beach, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.840 he had done opens Country Club. Can't see this is 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.840 all old hat for him. So he was really smooth, 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.720 even tempered. So he divided all the different tasks amongst 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.160 four or five people, so we were all kind of 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.080 in our lane doing certain things. But he really was 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.320 more about every day golf and making sure membership was fine. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.360 I kind of carry his management Philossy and his greenkeeping Phlossy, 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.760 which is every day's kind of member guest. By the 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.680 time you get to a tournament, you really shouldn't have 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.040 to do much. You should have be already on. You 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.960 should only be you should be rate at the doorstep. Anyway, 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:55.160 how does that? 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:56.720 How does that work day to day? 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:56.920 Then? 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.800 Like is it just like hey, we just we work hard. 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.560 Every well, you just yeah, you just keep the course 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.360 cycled in. I always say you got to cycle the greens. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.160 You got to keep them in a cycle where they're 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.440 always a day or two away from that you can go, okay, 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.880 let's get ready back to tournament speed, you know, like 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.400 thirteen or you know nowaday you have to be almost fourteen, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.760 you know feet, So you have to do like for us, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.000 like our standard are probably a standard stems probably like 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:23.240 eleven eleven and a half. 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.720 How much did that change from when you got into 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:26.800 the industry. 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.200 Well, you can tell, like you as you know so 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.000 much about golf architecture, they built those greens for half 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.600 inch greens heights, they didn't build them for a tenth 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.720 of an inch. And then so now we go from 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.560 poa to bent grass and these new bermudas which are 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.120 super tight, and now it's almost if you have really 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:51.200 old greens, they go almost too fast. So it's easier 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.560 to get to that speed because the greens are especially 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:55.520 the older greens. 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.920 Yeah, it's wild. I feel like when I was a 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.200 kid playing the muni that I even like when I 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.200 go back and play that meanie. The speed of the 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:07.000 greens is like just night and day. I remember, you know, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:08.960 he was a little kid like playing late in that 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.360 night and like you just have to murder putts to 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.480 get them up the hills, right, and now it's like 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.000 they put like great. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.960 All the time. You got to remember too, is that? 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.320 And this is not a slight to of the you know, 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.760 old school suit greenkeepers. They didn't have the technology we had, 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.880 I mean the machinery we have now. I mean when 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:28.920 I was growing up, when we would go to a 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.280 green and decide how to water, You put a knife 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.800 in it, You push your thumb against it, try to 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.200 see how wet it was. This is we didn't have 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.080 moisture meters we had. We're just guessing. I always say, 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.480 you know, a greenkeepers are professional guessers. All we do 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.880 is guess does that fertilizer really work? I don't know, 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.600 I'll guess is that really work? You just guess and 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.760 then you note, you take notes and say this looks 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.760 like they're work and this didn't. But then we have 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.240 moisture meters, so I can control my water level much better. 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.160 The wetter the grasses, the fatterric gets, the less water 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.560 to do. It starts the will it gets smaller. Less 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.439 drag co fishing balls faster. It's not rocket science. 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.080 With with that r Ryder Cup in ninety nine, do 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.960 you have any good memories from that week on the 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:12.600 on the crew? 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.360 Ryder Cup was absolutely fabulous because we had so much 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:20.120 fun taking care of the course that the European team 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.359 was very like talkative with us. They were really a 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.359 lot of fun. They were they would bust their chops 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:25.120 and stuff like that. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.840 I hear that almost every Ryder Cup venue that I 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.960 go to. Every time I talk to like somebody that's 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.280 on the staff, whether it's the pro shop or the groundscrew, 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.240 they're always like, oh, yeah, we we loved the European Yeah, 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.240 so nice and and we ended up just rooting for 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:42.080 the Europeans. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:42.639 Yeah. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.320 I mean it might mean why they win more because 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.159 they just are are nicer people. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.320 So it was before September eleventh, so like it was 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.200 nothing for me to walk I walked those with tiger 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.480 woods within like you know, ten feet of them, and 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:00.040 you know, uh Peene Stewart, you know, and and that 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.359 when you were allowed to do all that stuff. But boy, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.439 the probably the thing that stuck out the most was 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.199 I was told I always said at the end of 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.199 the trip or the end of the tournament. You know, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:11.920 you could pick a hole whatever you wanted to go see. 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:13.760 And I was like, I'll either watch seventeen or eighteen. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.960 I mean seventeen so historical, you know, something's gona happened. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.440 I'm like, nah, I go to eighteen. Yeah. I heard 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.040 the roar yeah, of the putt being made. Yeah, that 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.480 that was a big regret. But my job was to 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.840 get the pin off eighteen after the Ryder Cup. Yeah, 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.360 I got two hands on and Fluff said, nah, you're 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.840 not taking that. He's yelling in my ear, and I said, yeah, 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.080 you can have it. And I got splashed with champagne 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.159 and there was people all over the place and it 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:44.560 was great. It was There's definitely time in my lifet. 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.960 The you get to experience the plate of the golf 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.919 journalist at an event where you're just constantly trying to 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.240 guess which groups are gonna be the right crewery at 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.000 the end of a Yeah, tournament, it's the worst. 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.160 It is. It's the worst. That roar. I can still 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.720 hear it like it was yesterday. It's just it was 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.960 so like awesome. But I was just like I was 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.520