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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl Podcast. I'm Paul swing you,

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Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahma wits. Each day

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Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether at the grocery store or

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Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple

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Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as

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Speaker 1: that Bloomberg dot com. How far is the Federals are

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Speaker 1: willing to go and its average to support the market?

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Speaker 1: What more can and will it do? And Paul, one

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Speaker 1: area where people are looking at is could the Federal

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Speaker 1: Reserve expand its bond purchasing program beyond investment grade debt

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Speaker 1: to include some junk rated debt? And it raises some

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Speaker 1: serious questions about moral hazard as well as just credit risk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. Remember we had Iver Jersey from Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 1: on I would say more than a week ago, where

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Speaker 1: he was the first one to kind of just said, uh,

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Speaker 1: they just think could double too close to ten billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: And then I've heard that number echoed by others as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: echoed and then expanded upon with some saying it could

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Speaker 1: reach twelve million dollars in the not so distant of future.

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Speaker 1: One person who has been tracking all of this very

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Speaker 1: closely and has the inside view when you talk about

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Speaker 1: working at the at the Federal Reserve, is Daniel de

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Speaker 1: Martino Booth, who joins us now. She did work for

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Speaker 1: the Dallas Federal Reserve and currently has her own firm

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Speaker 1: where she analyzes all things credit and beyond. And I'm

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Speaker 1: just wondering, given the fact that Daniel de Martino Booth

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Speaker 1: CEO of of of Quill Intelligence, what's your perspective in

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Speaker 1: terms of what more the Federal Reserve can do? Well?

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Speaker 1: I think right now, this guy's the limit went back

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Speaker 1: during the financial crisis when I was inside the FED,

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Speaker 1: the purchase of corporate bonds was debated and and and

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Speaker 1: refute it. It was decided at the time that that

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Speaker 1: was crossing the line, and and in fact, I think

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Speaker 1: DoD Frank tried to make sure that the line was

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Speaker 1: never crossed again because it specifies that the FED cannot

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Speaker 1: extend credit to borrowers that are insolvent. But the work

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Speaker 1: around the bypassing of the Federal Reserve Act via a

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Speaker 1: special purpose vehicle at the Treasury effectively means that because

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Speaker 1: the loss goes to taxpayers, and because the paper doesn't

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Speaker 1: sit on the Fed's balance sheet, the FED can buy

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Speaker 1: whatever it wants. So, Danielle, so give us a sense

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Speaker 1: of kind of where you think, Um, what more you

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Speaker 1: would expect the FED to do? Here? We finally have

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Speaker 1: some fiscal stanleus and we can talk about that in

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Speaker 1: the moment. But staying with the Fed, what's what's the

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Speaker 1: next steps for the Fed? Well, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see what we do and do

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Speaker 1: not hear out of today's minutes at two pm. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, some people don't realize that the cares act

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Speaker 1: Um actually allows Jerome Powell to use his judgment to

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Speaker 1: determine whether or not Federal Open Market Committee meetings and

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Speaker 1: emergency meetings applied to the Sunshine Act, which requires divulgence

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Speaker 1: afterwards in the form of some for some form of minute.

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Speaker 1: So in that we're not going to see that the

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Speaker 1: minutes will or will not hint at whether the FED

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Speaker 1: is going to cross that investment grade to junk line.

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Speaker 1: And that is you've ys just put a report out

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Speaker 1: that was on the Bloomberg terminal. That is where everybody's

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Speaker 1: focus is right now. I've even gotten questions as to

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Speaker 1: whether or not the FED can put a time stamp

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Speaker 1: on fallen angels and come in after the fact, and

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Speaker 1: by triple B debt that has already been down graded,

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Speaker 1: if it if it was downgraded after March. These are

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Speaker 1: fascinating things running around. But if you look at one thing,

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Speaker 1: and that's the compression that we've seen in junk bond yield,

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Speaker 1: I think the market has moved on to concluding that

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Speaker 1: the FED is actually going there next and potentially stocks

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Speaker 1: via e t s, as the Swiss National Bank and

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Speaker 1: the Bank in Japan already do. So what's the argument

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Speaker 1: for the federers are stepping into jump bonds here? I

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Speaker 1: don't think there is an argument. I think I think

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Speaker 1: it crosses a very dark red line. I'm writing about

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Speaker 1: this today in fact um, there's a reason that that

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Speaker 1: dog Frank specifies that the FED cannot extend credit to

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Speaker 1: borrowers quote unquote bars that are insolvent. But but okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess on on the counter side, you could say

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Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve is looking to prevent systemic defaults across

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Speaker 1: the board that could end up wiping out pensions as

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Speaker 1: well as insurance companies and municipalities and whoever else, and

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Speaker 1: that a lot of these companies would have been viable

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Speaker 1: if they hadn't been closed down man mandatory closed down

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Speaker 1: based on the government's policies. What would you say to

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Speaker 1: that argument. I'm certainly sympathetic to that idea, But the

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Speaker 1: fact of the matter is of major shops across Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley put it out a few weeks in fact,

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Speaker 1: before the coronavirus outbreak hit, that of triple B bonds

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Speaker 1: were effectively junk rated. So I think the rot has

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Speaker 1: been in the bond market industries long before uh this

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Speaker 1: emergency broke out. And for that reason, and especially given

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Speaker 1: the sheer size of the ten trillion dollar uh US

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Speaker 1: corporate bond market, there's plenty that the Fed can do

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Speaker 1: with companies that are deemed as being viable and solvent.

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Speaker 1: All right, Daniel, let's switch over to fiscal policy. We

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Speaker 1: got the two trillion dollar UH plus policy recently. That

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Speaker 1: looks like Congress is working on something perhaps as large

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Speaker 1: as another trillion dollars of fiscal stimulus. Is that enough? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, right now it's a matter of chasing time.

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Speaker 1: We don't know if it's enough because the money hasn't

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Speaker 1: gotten into the hands of companies that are truly insolvent

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Speaker 1: and viable, and that would be a lot of the

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Speaker 1: smaller businesses that are in something of a holding pattern

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Speaker 1: hoping to get through the paperwork morass and get that

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Speaker 1: money delivered to them. So you can listen to all

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Speaker 1: you want at press conferences about increasing the amount of

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Speaker 1: funding available, but you actually have to get the cash

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Speaker 1: in the hands of the small businesses, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that is what's critical at this juncture. How worried

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Speaker 1: are you, Danielle about an increase in consumer defaults UM.

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Speaker 1: I think that it depends on how long you can

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Speaker 1: push forbearren Stout and whether or not there's a second

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Speaker 1: wave of the virus even as the United States makes

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Speaker 1: plans to come out of this UM. So it really

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Speaker 1: will be a matter of how long the federal government

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Speaker 1: is able to provide forbearance. But that just applied to mortgages. Look,

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Speaker 1: we've got there are car companies that are extending thirty

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Speaker 1: days at a time at this point on auto loan UM.

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Speaker 1: There's credit card defaults that are going up. A new

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Speaker 1: survey out of the New York Fed stated that quite

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Speaker 1: a few Americans right now are are concerned that they

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Speaker 1: can't make it past three months without defaulting on their debts. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we entered the COVID nineteen crisis with

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Speaker 1: sub prime auto loan delinquencies at recessionary level. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's it's a bit naive to say that we're

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Speaker 1: not going to see um more uh more more households

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Speaker 1: falling into arrears in the days and weeks to come,

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Speaker 1: especially given we're seeing so much stress come out of

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Speaker 1: households that make more than a hundred thousand dollars. Right,

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Speaker 1: Danielle di Martino Bouth, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: We as always appreciate your thoughts and commentary. Danielle's the

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Speaker 1: CEO and director of Intelligence at Quill Intelligence. She's also

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Speaker 1: a former advisors that Dallas Dallas Feder Reservant. She is

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Speaker 1: a Bloomberg opinion columnists, so she is quite busy. Lisa

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Speaker 1: really liked her comments about you know, you know, the

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Speaker 1: consumer credit is going to be an issue. It's not

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Speaker 1: just mortgages here, We're going to see it across the

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Speaker 1: credit spectrum. Uh And the longer people are out of work,

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Speaker 1: the bigger obviously the bigger the issue will be for

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Speaker 1: the economy. I was struck by a common idea that

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Speaker 1: markets are forward looking, and Paul, I'm struggling to understand

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Speaker 1: how markets look forward when there is no guidance and

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Speaker 1: when a growing number of companies are scrapping any guidance

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Speaker 1: or expected to do so. And this is sort of

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Speaker 1: one of the main conundrums. How do you invest at

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Speaker 1: a time of such little visibility? Joining us now as

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Speaker 1: Phil Orlando, somebody who always has a view and has

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Speaker 1: been really right repeatedly when it came to some bullish

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Speaker 1: calls over the past few years, chief equity market strategist

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Speaker 1: for Federated Hermes, joining us from Westchester, Phil, how do

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Speaker 1: you deal with this conundrum, the fact that we have

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Speaker 1: very little visibility into the future as far as corporate

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Speaker 1: earnings or the economy. This was a question that we

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Speaker 1: addressed ourselves in the early stages of this UH market

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Speaker 1: down thirty in in five weeks, the sharpest decline from

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Speaker 1: a record high to a bear market in history. And

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Speaker 1: UH technicals weren't making any sense, fundamentals weren't making any sense,

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Speaker 1: and as you said, with h forty some odd states

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Speaker 1: closed and with something in the neighborhood of a quarter

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Speaker 1: to a third of the global population sheltering in place,

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Speaker 1: S and P five, our companies have withdrawn guidance. So

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Speaker 1: what do you as an investor to do? What we

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Speaker 1: do it is created an alternative methodology for analyzing what

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Speaker 1: was going on. And not to be too simplistic about it,

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Speaker 1: but I call it my three legged stool. And what

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Speaker 1: we did is is we needed to get our hands

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Speaker 1: around three issues monetary policy, fiscal policy, and social policy

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Speaker 1: in order to gauge the trajectory of this disease and

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Speaker 1: what might the implications be on the economy and the

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Speaker 1: financial markets and and so far, I think the work

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Speaker 1: that we've done here has given us a sense directionally

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Speaker 1: how this thing is going to play out. So, Phil,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to go to maybe that third leg of

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Speaker 1: the stool that you were talking about, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of consumer consumer behavior. You know, we're gonna get get

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Speaker 1: another really brutal jobless claims number tomorrow, We're gonna get

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Speaker 1: incredible record unemployment here very soon. How do you think

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Speaker 1: the consumer and consumer behavior is going to come out

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Speaker 1: of this thing? On the other side, I think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be fine, because what what this situation, This, as

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Speaker 1: disastrous as it is, is not the Great Recession of

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Speaker 1: oh seven oh nine or the bursting of the tech

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Speaker 1: bubble in O to oh three. This was a forced

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Speaker 1: shutdown of the economy based upon the ultimate Black swan,

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Speaker 1: an exogenous medical shock that we didn't do this to ourselves.

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Speaker 1: This just sort of happened. And so we're all doing

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Speaker 1: the right thing, which is, you know, locking down and

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Speaker 1: sheltering in place. And we did it in March, and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do it in April. And if the trajectory

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Speaker 1: of the illness and the mortality plays out the way

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Speaker 1: we think it will, um, then we're going to start

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Speaker 1: to slowly reopen things at some point early in May.

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Speaker 1: And the equity market is a forward looking discounting mechanism,

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Speaker 1: is at least in our view, is saying, Okay, as

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Speaker 1: we get into the second half of this year, you've

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Speaker 1: got this enormous pen up demand, uh that is going

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Speaker 1: to start to be fulfilled. People have been depriving themselves

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Speaker 1: of uh, you know, Tomahawk, rib I steaks and nice

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Speaker 1: bottles of cabernet for a couple of months and we

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Speaker 1: haven't seen a show or a ball game, and and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna want to do something and I think the

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Speaker 1: consumer is going to start to come back. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: illness permitting in the second half of this year. Phil,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you're pretty polish. Is that accurate? That

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Speaker 1: is accurate. Um. As we look at the three paths

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Speaker 1: that this thing could take. There's the L shaped recovery

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Speaker 1: where you just go straight down and there's no recovery,

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Speaker 1: you just you're in a deep procession for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years. We put the probability of that at about

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Speaker 1: ten percent. There's the V shaped recovery where you come

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Speaker 1: straight down, which has happened, and then you go straight

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Speaker 1: back up and everything's fine after a couple of rocky months. Um,

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Speaker 1: we've got about a ten percent probability on that. Our

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Speaker 1: base case is sort of a U shaped recovery where

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Speaker 1: we're going to bounce around here a couple of quarters

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Speaker 1: of negative GDP, but then the market and the economy

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Speaker 1: are going to come back strong in the second half

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Speaker 1: of the year. But the key issue here is we've

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Speaker 1: got to see the trajectory of the illnesses and the

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Speaker 1: mortalities peak. Now our best gas based upon our analysis

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Speaker 1: was that that was going to happen in Holy Week,

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Speaker 1: and this is Holy Week, and and so and and. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, we're we're pleased with what we

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Speaker 1: think we're seeing here in the metropolitan area, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of the uh, the the epicenter of

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Speaker 1: the entire world. Yeah, just just about thirty seconds. Given

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Speaker 1: the fact that we're seeing statistics that nearly a third

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Speaker 1: of US apartment renters didn't pay any of their April rent,

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Speaker 1: that more than a million workers in the retail sector

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Speaker 1: have been furloughed, what makes you think that American consumers

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Speaker 1: will be in a position to spend the way they

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Speaker 1: did before this. Well, I think from a policy standpoint,

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Speaker 1: monitoring fiscal we've thrown everything at it. Uh. You look

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Speaker 1: at the extension of unemployment insurance, the additional six hundred

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Speaker 1: dollar weekly bonuses on top of of regular benefits. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the fact that I think landlords recognized that they're not

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Speaker 1: going to be collecting any rents for the next couple

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Speaker 1: of months. I think all of that is sort of

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Speaker 1: built in to to what are going to be disastrous

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Speaker 1: numbers March April, probably through the balance of the second quarter.

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Speaker 1: But I think the spirit of the American people and

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Speaker 1: the desire to get back in the game is going

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Speaker 1: to allow us to start to come back to life

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Speaker 1: in the second half of the year. Philorlando, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. We appreciate that. We hope your

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Speaker 1: optimistic view proves correct. Philo Orlando, chief equity market strategist

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Speaker 1: for Federated Hermes about eighty nine billion dollars under management,

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Speaker 1: so he's certainly talking for a lot of money, joining

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Speaker 1: us on the phone from Westchester and Lisa. Phil has

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Speaker 1: always been bullish, always been optimistic. Key's you know, during

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Speaker 1: this bullmarket he has been absolutely spot on here. I

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Speaker 1: think the real question I have is, you know, has

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Speaker 1: consumer behavior changed or at least not just the near

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Speaker 1: term and maybe even the intermediate term, And how's that

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Speaker 1: going to affect the economy and spending habits going forward.

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Speaker 1: And so we'll have to see, because that's really a big,

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Speaker 1: big issue going forward. Part of that two trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: of fiscal stimulus that was approved last week includes cash

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Speaker 1: directly for consumers. The question is will it be enough

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Speaker 1: and will it arrive quickly enough for that. We turned

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Speaker 1: to Greg McBride. He's the chief financial analyst at bank

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Speaker 1: rate dot com. They did some recent survey work on that. Greg,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us on the phone. What

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Speaker 1: did your survey tell you? But it really shows how

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Speaker 1: badly so many Americans need this money, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's evident by the fact that of those that expect

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Speaker 1: to receive a payment say it's somewhat were very important

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Speaker 1: to their near term financial well being. And also when

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Speaker 1: we see how people plan to use that money, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're going to use it for monthly bills, forty one

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Speaker 1: sent that they would use it for day to day essentials. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's some overlap there because it was you could pick

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Speaker 1: more than one, but I think you know, those were

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Speaker 1: heading shoulders above things like adding to savings and paying

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Speaker 1: down debt. So I think that really illustrates that even

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Speaker 1: those that are still working, they don't have much of

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Speaker 1: a cushion, and if they're concerned about the sustainability of

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Speaker 1: their employment or income going forward, that this is going

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Speaker 1: to be a valuable cushion. Greg. I was struck by

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Speaker 1: your report. It showed, yes, it's a cushion that's valuable,

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Speaker 1: but it's not nearly a big enough cushion, and The

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Speaker 1: study that banquet dot com did showed that thirty one

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Speaker 1: percent of US adults who participate receiving a stimulus check

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Speaker 1: believe that it would not be enough to sustain their

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Speaker 1: financial well being for one month. So is it going

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Speaker 1: to be ineffective when this money actually does get to

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Speaker 1: consumers given the fact that it hasn't even gotten to

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Speaker 1: any of them yet, was it worth it? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll leave me whether it's worth it up, I think

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Speaker 1: that's something we can evaluate in hindsight. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I think for those that have been furloughed or laid off,

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Speaker 1: have suffered an income disruption, the timing is critical because

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Speaker 1: it can really bridge the gap between the last paycheck

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Speaker 1: and the first unemployment check. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are in that limbo right now. Um, And so

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Speaker 1: the timing I think is is you know, really really

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Speaker 1: important to that. But you know, it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be a panacea by any means. And and you know,

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Speaker 1: when we look at the economic fallout from this, the

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Speaker 1: financial pain that households feel is something that's going to

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Speaker 1: be with us for a long time. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: going to be measured in months and years, not something days.

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Speaker 1: And weeks, so long after the state at home orders

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Speaker 1: have been lifted, there's gonna be a financial hangover the

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Speaker 1: a lot of households are going to continue to deal

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Speaker 1: with for some time thereafter. So it sounds like from

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Speaker 1: your survey that the respondents feel like there needs to

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Speaker 1: be more, Is that right? Yeah, I mean, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of that is just you know, we

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Speaker 1: you know, we've only really kind of touched the tip

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Speaker 1: of the iceberg on unemployment. Ten million people have filed

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Speaker 1: for nemployment in the last two weeks. That's just those

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Speaker 1: that have been able to file. We know there are

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Speaker 1: more that haven't even been able to get through yet.

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Speaker 1: Um and you know, unfortunately, more layoffs to come. So

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, I think there's a recognition of that on

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Speaker 1: the part of consumers and even coming into this, you know,

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of households that you know, it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't take much to kind of put them off the

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Speaker 1: rails financially. You know, we found a forty one percent

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Speaker 1: of Americans. This is back in January, which seems like

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Speaker 1: a lifetime ago of Americans at that point could afford

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Speaker 1: an unplanned expense of a thousand dollars and pay for

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Speaker 1: it out of their savings, just so um, you know.

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Speaker 1: And that was at a point where unemployment was at

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Speaker 1: a fifty year low, and obviously things have really changed

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Speaker 1: dramatically since then. So, Greg, this is an interesting kind

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Speaker 1: of development, given the fact that the American consumer was

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Speaker 1: praised as being the bedrock of the recovery that we

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Speaker 1: saw for a decade that came crashing to a halt

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Speaker 1: in the past month or two. And I'm wondering going forward,

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Speaker 1: how able some of these consumers will be to go

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Speaker 1: back to their previous spending habits. I mean, we were

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Speaker 1: speaking with Phil Orlando earlier in the show Federated her Veys,

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Speaker 1: and he was saying he expects that when this all

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Speaker 1: does lift, everybody will want to run back to Disneyland

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Speaker 1: or go out and to get a big steak. Is

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Speaker 1: that going to be feasible given the destruction to the

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Speaker 1: balance sheets and a lot of households. I think they're

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Speaker 1: You're gonna see two different extremes. I mean, yes, there

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Speaker 1: are going to be those that have cabin fever. In

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Speaker 1: the first place, they're headed as the airport or uh,

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Speaker 1: you know something. They want to you know, get out

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Speaker 1: and kind of resume normal life and you know they're

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Speaker 1: they're still employed that you know, they're they were able

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Speaker 1: to do that, But there are going to be millions

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Speaker 1: that are still unemployed and or that get re employedment

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Speaker 1: at a lower level of income, and they're not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to generate the same level of spending

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Speaker 1: that they had in the past. And uh, you know

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Speaker 1: that's coming out of the last prossession. The recovery was

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Speaker 1: one that had a you know, very slow growth trajectory.

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Speaker 1: You know, depending upon how long we see elevated unemployed

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Speaker 1: this time around, you know, we could see something similar. So, Greg,

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Speaker 1: are you looking at you know, mortgage debt, credit card debt?

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Speaker 1: What are you looking at for as it relates to

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Speaker 1: the consumer, Well, you know, in terms of monthly payments,

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Speaker 1: because people have been able to refinance at lower rates. UM,

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Speaker 1: the stream on the budget in terms of monthly payments

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Speaker 1: as a percentage of income is some of the lowest

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Speaker 1: that's been in thirty five years. The actual debt is bigger,

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Speaker 1: but you know, people have lessened the pain of those

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Speaker 1: monthly payments by virtue of of low interest rates. Uh. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: with widespread forbearance and payment relief options, UM there are

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Speaker 1: ways that people can buy themselves selves some valuable time,

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Speaker 1: getting a forbearance on that mortgage or the car loan,

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Speaker 1: you know, those big ticket items that really carve a

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Speaker 1: big hole out of the monthly budget, and that could

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Speaker 1: be critical. I mean, if if you're only seeing an

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Speaker 1: income disruption for a couple of months, being able to

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Speaker 1: get a reprieve on that mortgage or car loan for

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Speaker 1: a couple of months could really make a big difference.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, and being able to to sort

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Speaker 1: of resoom normally from a financial standpoint, you know. Once

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Speaker 1: we're giving me all Claire. Greg McBride, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. Greg McBride, chief financial analyst

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Speaker 1: for Banquet dot Com. Time to check in with Bloomberg Opinion.

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Speaker 1: Now we're joined by opinion columnists. Take him covers all

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Speaker 1: things technology for Bloomberg Opinion, and we're gonna talk about Zoom.

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Speaker 1: Here's the stock that's just about doubled uh since the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: uh really crossed our desk. Here is people go more

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Speaker 1: and more to remote learning, but now there's some concerns

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Speaker 1: about security of those streams. Hey, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. Give us the latest on what's going on

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Speaker 1: with Zoom. I know it's being sued for fraud and

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Speaker 1: mounting security concerns. What's going on? So I think there

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Speaker 1: is on legitimate cristim prisons for what they've done. Um,

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Speaker 1: their marketing has been overly aggressed. They've been misleading with

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Speaker 1: this term end end encryption, so they're getting a lot

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Speaker 1: of scrutiny for that. Actually used this less robust form

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Speaker 1: of encryption called a less security, which is used by

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Speaker 1: many web services like Gmail. So I think they might

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Speaker 1: get fined for that. So let's just take a bit

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Speaker 1: testep back. Zoom got a lot of interest over the

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Speaker 1: past few years as people thought about the possibility of

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Speaker 1: a greater shift to an online workplace that's been accelerated

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Speaker 1: by the COVID nineteen related shutdowns. Now Zoom finds itself

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Speaker 1: the subject of some unwanted scrutiny in addition to an

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Speaker 1: incredible surge and popularity. Can you just give us a

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Speaker 1: sense of the liability aspect of this, aside from the

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Speaker 1: legal areas of just you know, people moving away from

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Speaker 1: the platform or perhaps looking to regulate it more closely.

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Speaker 1: What's the latest I think, like I said, they might

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Speaker 1: get fined on this kind of aggressive marketing they've done.

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Speaker 1: But I also think some of the blame has been overblown.

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Speaker 1: They've been getting a lot of crissystem over this zoom

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Speaker 1: bombing thing, where people panters, pranksters get into these calls.

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Speaker 1: But I think most of that is due to people

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Speaker 1: not enabling these spasic security features like passwords, waiting room,

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Speaker 1: invitation only meetings which weren't weren't enabled by default, And

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Speaker 1: now Zoom has enabled these security features by default to

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Speaker 1: stop these things. So it's almost like if I put

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Speaker 1: my cell phone out there on the Internet, like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get prank calls. So Zoom A lot of the

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Speaker 1: users a Zoom. It was mainly used for enterprise customers

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Speaker 1: before this great surge over the last few weeks, and

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Speaker 1: I think that some of the blame might be overblown there.

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Speaker 1: All right, So Tay, So what can Zoom really do here?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it just some new software, some new encryption?

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Speaker 1: What can they do? So they already said that they're

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Speaker 1: going to do the end to end decryption is gonna

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Speaker 1: take a few months. This morning they hired the former

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Speaker 1: security chiefs of Facebook. That's look at all the practices

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Speaker 1: and try to improve their software for laws, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is just educating people on how to

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Speaker 1: use these security features there are already there, um, and

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Speaker 1: they really gave Mede that mistake. They didn't see the

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Speaker 1: change in nature the user base from enterprises consumers over

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Speaker 1: the last two weeks. Now Zoom is literally the most

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Speaker 1: popular app on the App Store. It went from ten

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Speaker 1: million users December in March, so it's like more popular

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Speaker 1: than TikTok these days. So they really need to recognize

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00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: it's a different moment for them. They they really make

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00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: the best, easy to use, high quality software that everyone

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00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: wants to use, because it's so much for their competitors,

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00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: and they really need to realize that they have to

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00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: do a better marketing and education for their customers. Paul

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00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: I will say full disclosure. I'm having a zoom uh

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00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: passover sater tonight with my excited family and my nine

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00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: year old eight year old. I guess he still is uh.

440
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: He has been having Zoom calls with his friends. UM.

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00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: He sets up little meetings with his friends all the time.

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00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: I am wondering though, when it comes to an official capacity,

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00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: when it's not a passover sater um A good Friday

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00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: event with your family or if it's your eight year old.

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00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: Our office spaces moving more to Microsoft and some of

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00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: these other platforms perhaps that offer a greater degree of

447
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: security and perhaps have thought this through a little bit more.

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00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: Take so, offices are moving to Microsoft. Teams. Um, New

449
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: York City actually banned Zoom for the teachers over last weekend.

450
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: So there is a move by some to move towards

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00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: Microsoft and Google. But I'll say again, is that people

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00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: a lot of enterprises still want to use Zoom because

453
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: it works better. Um, there's less lagged, higher reliability. So

454
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: I think over the next thirty and ninety days they'll

455
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: get through this. They'll probably come out with better security, uh,

456
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: in terms of encryption. And I think actually the company

457
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: deserves some praise too because providing this enormously helpful service

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00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: that's enabling hundreds of maize of people to kind of

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00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: hope in these difficult circumstances. Um, it's providing a sense

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00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: of community and social socialization that people really need right now. So, UM,

461
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: they have some issues, They're going to fix those issues

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00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens. Take him, thanks so much

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00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: for joining us. Take him Bloomberg opinion technology columnists, and

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00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: you can find all of his work and the work

465
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: of all of Bloomberg Opinion on Bloomberg dot com, slash

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00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: opinion and on the terminal O P I n GO.

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00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: So you look at that chart of Zoom technologies Leasa,

468
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: it's just extraordinaries, just kind of puts. I mean, had

469
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: a great i PA, one of the good IPOs from

470
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,479
Speaker 1: nineteen in a year where there weren't a whole lot

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00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: of them. And then you know, just around the kind

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00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: of the end of the uh, you know, it's just

473
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: started to really really rock it up over the last

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00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: several months, and it's pulled back here on some of

475
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: these security concerns here, but clearly, as Tay was just mentioning,

476
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: it's probably the best one out there, the best technology

477
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: out there. Well, it's easiest to use. I don't know,

478
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: it's been really interesting to figure out, how do you

479
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: have you know, video calls and conferences with your family

480
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: for Easter? I mean, how are you guys thinking about

481
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: this so or anything to people together? You know, it's

482
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: you know, FaceTime is for is popular, but Microsoft got

483
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: a product out there, but Zoom seems to have really

484
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: taken off and again, as Time mentioned, it's just a

485
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: really good, easy to use technology. Um, but they've got

486
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: to get that security thing right. And also, you know,

487
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: when you're having a family affair on one of these platforms,

488
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: you have to kind of have an agenda and treat

489
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: it like a meeting. Otherwise it's complete bedlam and everyone

490
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: talks at once, you don't know what's going on, and

491
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: everyone just sort of ends up smiling at each other

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00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: until it's time to say goodbye. That's something I've noticed.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

494
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts

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00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on

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00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa abram Woids. I'm on

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00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa A. Bramwoyd's one before the podcast, you

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00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio