WEBVTT - Nvidia's New Chip Architecture and TikTok's Bill 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.600 From Mahard where Innovation, money and power. 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:16.439 Collie in Silicon Valley, Nbon. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:18.880 Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.400 And Carolin Hyde at Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.519 I'med Ludlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up. 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.680 Full coverage of Video's annual GPU Technology Conference. Hoss Jensen 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:48.400 Wang on Veil's it's most powerful chip architecture yet, Why 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.680 Blackwell will be key for the future of. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.800 AI plus as TikTok faces a potential ban or divest 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.080 it show we'll get the outlook on what's to come 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.440 next in the Senate with US Senator Bill hag from Tennessee, and. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:03.080 We'll sit down with the CEO of the fastest growing 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.440 cybersecurity company that's Whiz to Talk M and a valuation 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:07.479 so much more. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.720 Video CEO Jensen Huang name checked these names on stage 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.399 at GtC on Monday night, either their customers or he 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.720 was praising of where they sit in the AI infrastructure 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.399 build out that we're seeing around the world in the 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.560 context of data centers. Dell, one of those key names 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:24.440 moving through the upside. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.880 Caroline kingmaker of other stocks, perhaps not his own on 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.039 the day in Video's Blackwell though ed the processor is 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.400 the showcase of the chip company's GtC conference, and look 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.760 it stends in video's dominance, it feels like of artificial 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:38.800 intelligence computing. 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:41.080 This is Harper. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.639 Harper changed the world. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:58.840 This is Blackwell, named after the mathematician and game theorist 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:03.600 David Backwell. This new platform is multiple times superior at 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.440 AI models and inference that its predecessor Hopper. As we 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.240 can see, he's just lining them up next to each 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.920 other moment. Let's break it all down the Antoine Skyman, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.240 his technology infrastructure analyst at News Street Research who covers 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.600 in video and AI, and the dominance has been clear 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.840 when you're looking at a market capitalization, when you're thinking 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.680 the trillion dollars added in marketcap this year alone, did 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.200 it live up to the third most well valuable company 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:28.720 in the world. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.200 Yes, thanks, thanks Caroline. I'd say our main takeaways from 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:40.120 Jensen's keynotes yesterday is that the competitiveness of Nvidia's product 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.959 is only getting stronger. Blackwell, the new platform that the 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:48.280 company announced offers up to four times higher training performance 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.840 and thirty times higher inference performance than its predecessor Hopper. 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.080 And so next time you hear someone announce it cheap 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.400 that's ten times faster than NVDR, remember that a year 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.760 later and Vidia will also have acheap ten times faster. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.160 So alternatives to Nvidia can have an advantage that lasts 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.600 at best one generation, and a year later that advantage 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.480 goes away. And last, but not least, remember that this 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.799 advantage often comes at the cost first giving up on 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.600 the flexibility that GPU's offer, and second the cost of 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.079 not being able to leverage Nvidia's ecosystem. 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.920 So I would say that yes, it leaves up antoine. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.120 There was a lot more emphasis from Jensen on inference 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.880 than there has been historically. Right, The story was around 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.320 the row h one hundred played in training large language 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.880 models with many tens or hundreds of billions of parameters. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.080 Are you convinced. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.600 That if we're in a world where we move from 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.280 more training to more inference, Nvidia continues to lead in 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:49.760 that side of the market as well. 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.640 Yes, I think so, and I think Jensen clearly illustrated 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.400 that very well. Inference is a very complex problem that 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:04.600 involves very complex optimization where you have to paralyze a 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.920 workload across dozens of GPUs, And I think what Jensen 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:14.680 showed yesterday is that Nvidia's mode is really about being 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.080 able to optimize these GPUs to solve that complex inference 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:23.960 problem very efficiently. This thirty times better than Hopper clearly 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.919 illustrates that Nvida is very, very much delivering on that front. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.920 What were you most excited about from Jensen? Right he's 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.360 like being compared to Steve Jobs. He is the man 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.120 of the moment. He wears his leather jacket. You convinced 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.360 by all the things that he says about the future 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:43.320 when he's on stage. 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:51.440 I think I was most excited about innovation beyond just GPUs. 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.120 If you look at the fact that Nvidia also announced 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:58.920 material improvements for secondary chips like the Gray CPU, the DPU, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.760 various networking chips, we actually can conclude that only half 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.200 the performance improvement is coming from the GPU, and the 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.200 other half is actually coming from the rest of the 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:15.000 hardware stack and system level integration. So bottom line is 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.640 that Nvidia's mode is not just about designing great GPUs, 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:22.560 It's about designing great systems optimized to unleash fully the 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.760 capabilities of those GPUs, and I think that's really what 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.600 I was excited about when I looked at the keynote yesterday, 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:28.719 and it's. 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.919 Clearly perhaps so I was saying some impact on rival 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.880 chip companies. I mean MDS, I think, one of the 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.719 worst performers on the day. Does this mean that they've 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.240 got it all locked up? Or is with the new 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.680 paradigm shift to inference and the fact some of these 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.880 hyperscalers themselves want to be making their own chips, does 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:50.279 that long term provide some sort of competitive issue. 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.760 Well, I think that Nvida's competition will thrive as well 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.359 because demand is so strong at the moment, so everybody 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.440 will continue to buy as much as they can at 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.120 least until the end of next year. And that doesn't 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.600 mean that they will challenge the dominus of Nvidia, but 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.560 that will make room for alternatives. So at this point 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.520 in time, we actually see upside in both Nvidia and AMD. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.480 But the uncertainty that there is beyond twenty twenty five 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.400 means that the risk reward ratio is getting thinner and 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:25.640 thinner as those doocks keep having a run. What happens 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.640 beyond twenty twenty five? I think nobody knows. It will 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:33.120 depend on the performance of next generation larger models as 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:37.760 well as adoption and monetization of AI. But I would 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.080 say that there is room for challengers like AMD to 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.719 also gain a lot of share in that market, probably 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.360 in the ten to twenty percent region is something we 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:48.440 would see as reasonable. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.200 I want to just dwell on the supply side issues 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.800 a little bit, because packaging is something that's beening highlighted 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.479 time and time again. Are we ultimately going to see 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.680 an issue never with demand that feels like just how 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.880 much can be made, how quickly it can be made, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:03.880 and how and who buy? 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:11.000 So I think demand is really, you know, something that 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.520 will have to look at, will have to look at 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.880 many many dimensions. We are on the lookout, you know, 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.000 observing the industry on or fronts, and so will definitely 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.320 keep you posted. I don't think at this stage anyone 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.840 can determine what's going to happen beyond twenty twenty five. 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.480 Between now and twenty twenty five, though we have very 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:34.600 strong visibility. All data points suggest that Nvidia is going 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.920 to do very well, AM is going to do very well, 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.440 Broadcom is going to do very well. We see the 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.800 industry shaping up, you know, supply coast capacity, for instance, 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.040 doubling again this year. I think all the data points 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.200 suggest that everything is going to remain strong until twenty 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.160 twenty five, but there is no way to determine what 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.080 happens beyond twenty twenty five. Yet, we'll have to monitor 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:58.640 leading indicators on that front, as I mentioned earlier, like 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.320 adoption then monetization of the I. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.920 Love Caroline's question because Blackwell has two hundred and eight 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.560 billion transistors in the tensercre right, it's so many transistors, 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.600 it's actually two chips in a multi die format TSMC 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:19.440 is going to be the manufacturer making them four MP technique. 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.520 Just something you said, Antoine. I think the forecast in 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.720 fiscal twenty five is one hundred and ten billion dollars 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.880 of revenue, up from sixty one in fiscal twenty four. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:29.960 Do you have a good. 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:35.199 Sense of how quickly Blackwell will be revenue generating? I 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.440 think they said it will be launching later this year 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:38.120 calendar year. 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:40.640 Yes. 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:44.760 I mean when you look at Nvidia's prior cycles, for instance, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.480 Hopper that launched in late twenty twenty two represented maybe 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.439 meet single digits of sales and mostly in the fourth quarter, 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:57.160 and that quickly remped in twenty twenty three, maybe to 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.400 about half of sales, and so we expect it's probably 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.360 a similar trajectory to play out for black Will. 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.719 All right, Newstreet Research and they center on scriber and 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.760 great to have you on the program, reacting to the 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.280 event of the year. Probably so fun are coming up. 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:15.760 We're going to bring you the latest on the other 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.400 big story, the TikTok divest or Bambil and why tech 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.720 critics are saying Congress needs to think a lot bigger. 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.080 That conversation's next, Caroline, another chip mover. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.800 Yeah, and let's go back to the AI hype because well, 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.640 we're seeing supply coming into action for super micro computer. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.800 We're down my number cent. Why because they're often just sell. 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.319 More shares, two million more shares in a public offering 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.600 that could raise as much as two billion dollars. Remember 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.560 this computer server maker, it's been on an absolute taired 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:49.520 a thousand percent gain amid this way AI enthusiasm. 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:50.079 Over the last twelve months. 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:51.640 It's going to be giving up a little bit as 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:52.760 we see them sell more shares. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:54.800 There's a Blomgechnology. 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.800 Senior officials from the Justice Department and other agencies. Now 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:14.960 they're going to be holding closed door briefings in the 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.800 Senate this week to advance legislation that would allow TikTok 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.040 to continue its US operations are being severed from its 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.880 Chinese owner. Now this is all his breathings are likely 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.600 to be held today and tomorrow. We understand this is 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.160 an ongoing lobbying battle, isn't it over the dovest or 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.120 band TikTok bill? And it moves to the Senate after 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.360 what was a very quick passage in the House last week. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.040 I just sat down with Republican Senator Bill Haggerty at 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.960 Tennessee to get his thoughts on the legislation earlier today. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:41.559 Just take a listen. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.160 Well, it's hard to say what's going to happen in 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.480 the Senate because Chuck Schumer controls the pace of play 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:47.920 in the Senate, and it's got to move through the 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:52.480 Commerce Committee in that gavel's controlled by Maria Campwell, So 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.920 I'm not certain what the pace will be, but I 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.160 can tell you what the concerns are regarding the bill. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.679 I think the bill is trying to address a very 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.079 real concern that has to do with the national Security 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:06.439 laws of China, and any company that is Chinese owned 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.720 is subject to their data being surveilled by the Chinese 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:10.480 Commonist Party. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.200 There are no exceptions to that rule. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.960 And that's data collected wherever it may be collected around 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.319 the world, including in America. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.480 The concern that this bill is trying. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.880 To get at is the concern about the privacy of 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.760 Americans data and a desire not to allow that data 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.839 to be surveilled by the Chinese Commonist Party. That's a 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.920 very real concern. There's also another concern that's being very 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.760 clearly articulated as well. The last thing that we want 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.439 to see happen is more power shift to the hands 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.440 of companies like Meta that have demonstrated a willingness to 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.400 censor American voices, particularly conservative American voices. So I think 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.679 what we're talking about here is who owns TikTok at 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.520 the end of the day, and whether a divestiture. 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:47.760 Can be achieved. 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.719 So you'd want TikTok to remain as a competitive here 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.920 in the United States, just under different ownership. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.280 And I think that is exactly what the bill contemplates. 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.400 We'll see again what the final product looks like as 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:58.840 it moves to the centate. But that's what I would 0:11:58.840 --> 0:11:59.880 expect to see. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.520 There has been some heavy lobbying, shall we say, coming 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.440 from TikTok on the Hill. And it was notable that 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.320 almost the person who first got the ball rolling on 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:13.240 analyzing the ownership of TikTok and indeed its persistence here in. 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.240 The US was former President Trump. And then he changed 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:16.720 his opinion. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:18.720 He went more on the concern around Meta. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.680 Do you think that was to do with lobbying. What 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:21.640 do you think changed his mind? 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:23.600 I really doubt it has anything to do with lobbying. 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.079 I think it probably has a lot more to do 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.160 with what we saw come out in the X files, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.600 in the Twitter tapes, and the degree of censorship that's 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.240 taking place between the Biden administration and companies like Meta, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.760 and Meta's willingness to get involved in elections. I think 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.640 everybody was deeply surprised and shocked with the suppression of 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.599 the story about Hunter Biden that was suppressed from the 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.640 New York Post. The degree by which this government, certainly 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.719 this White House, has been quote flagging a post of 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.440 concern to them, and that all feels like censorship to 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.960 most Americans. I think that's the point. That's the concern 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.880 that President Trump is highlighting. 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.440 To go the other route, and many people feeling that 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.240 what they don't want to see happen is a lack 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.800 of freedom of speech, a lack of nobility to use 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.760 this platform. So if it was to remain in the 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:11.960 United States, who should own it? 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:12.920 Who should be a buyer? 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.400 Well, I've certainly preferred American to own it, And that's 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.600 the needle I think this legislation is trying to thread 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:19.360 right now. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.520 Should it be a social media company? Should it be 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:22.560 individual investors? 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.559 I know that your background is such, well, it's. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.760 Going to be a large price tag, I feel pretty certain. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.000 So it's hard to predict, and nor do I think 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.000 legislation should dictate you know, who that buyer might ultimately be. 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:35.720 But we'll see what happens. 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.319 Should a ban or divestment on TikTok be significant to 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:40.400 the US public. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.160 I think it would be quite significant because of the 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.360 number of users. I think the count is one hundred 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.640 and seventy million users of TikTok, so I think there's 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.640 a great interest in what happens here, And again, the 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.440 Congress is trying to thread the needle on balancing our 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:59.520 security concerns and our concerns about data privacy with concerns 0:13:59.520 --> 0:13:59.960 of free speed. 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:05.600 Have you received calls from people within your within Tennessee 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.840 wanting to see that TikTok remains, not wanting to see 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:08.000 it go. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:09.559 We've received calls on both sides. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.000 Ah, And so it's hard to say where the American 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.920 public lies on this. I haven't seen polling on it, 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.440 but again, I think the concerns are both very real. Again, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.880 the national security concern that our data would be exposed 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.480 to surveill us by the Chinese Communist Party, even weaponization 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.240 by the Chinese Communist Party. That's something Americans clearly don't want, 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.360 That's what I'm hearing. But also a concern that we 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.920 not put too much power in the hands of those 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.640 large media companies that have shown their desire and their 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.440 willingness to censor particularly conservative voices here in America. So 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.960 threading Nick Needil is where this legislation needs to go. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.600 The Republican take from Senator Bill Haggerty of Tennessee giving 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.440 his thoughts on a TikTok bill as it begins potentially 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.520 to slowly move through the Senate, And well, let's just 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.120 look at some of the overall concerns the opponents, the 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.160 tech critics, the issue around Congress about thinking that it 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.720 more broadly, should not just be a divestor ban legislation 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.880 on TikTok, Perhaps borader privacy could tell well, privacy oversight 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.840 coming to every single social media platform Alex brinkers here, 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:13.720 and I think that was kind of what Bill Haggerty 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.360 was trying to get at here. The Senator Alex was that, well, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.000 as many Republicans might try to articulate, they've been concerns 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.360 with us a social media platforms in their voice within 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.960 should there just be a broader privacy oversight here, a 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.920 broader law rather than just targeting one individual company. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.160 That's what's been so interesting about this, Caroline, what Senator 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.600 Hagerty kind of laid out to you that they're concerned 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.600 about data privacy as the impetus for this bill. Some 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.080 folks are looking at that saying we actually need to 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.640 go bigger. This bill itself is not about data privacy 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.280 in the language. It's about ownership and ownership by foreign 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.440 adversaries like China. We talked to experts for a story 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.720 coming out in this latest edition of BusinessWeek magazine, and 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.880 they are saying, look, why don't we think bigger about 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.560 this and not just focus on one company or one country, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.720 but actually set federal data privacy regulations in the US, 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.880 which the US doesn't have. I trieded to folks at EPIC, 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:11.800 like Kellie Schroeder, who's their general counsel. 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:13.680 Epics an organization who has been. 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.840 Lobbying for a broader privacy regulation for a while, and 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.200 she had a really great comparison. She basically said, look, 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.720 if the Internet is a calender, then plugging plugging one 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.680 hole is the equivalent of this TikTok bill. It's one 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.040 small hole in the data ecosystem and American's data is 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.360 slipping out elsewhere. So why don't we address this on 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:35.760 a broader scale. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.200 Alex, I think it's important to go back to what 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.080 you and I reported last week and basically point out 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.520 TikTok is not promising to divest at all. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.320 The opposite. They're kind of digging in and saying. 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.360 We've put forward a user data solution that we're going 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.120 to stick with. And listening to Caroline's interview just then 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:56.720 there seems to be the political group that say this 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.520 is just about TikTok, ownership of TikTok, And then there's 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.720 the group that says this is much bigger. It's about 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:08.480 censorship via social media platforms and a blanket control by government. 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:10.800 Which voice is loudest right now. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:12.560 It's a mix of both. 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.359 And to take you a little bit behind the scenes 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.919 with our reporting over the last forty eight hours, we 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.960 know that the Department of Justice is briefing senators this 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.520 week encouraging them to vote for this bill, and also 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.359 TikTok is passing out a one pager that I was 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.439 able to review batting down some of those concerns on 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.520 data privacy. In particular, the DOJ is pointing out that 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:36.760 TikTok collects names, addresses, phone numbers, and TikTok. 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.200 Is saying, look, that's the same kind of. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.440 Information that any other social media company, particularly the ones 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.040 that might be lobbying them, like Meta and X and 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:49.080 the like those other rivals, collect the same amount of data. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.960 And when I rewind and think about the social media industry, 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.159 it is not lacking for infractions when it comes to 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.439 user data getting out. What has been lacking though, is 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.840 actual life. We've seen the CEOs of these companies come 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.480 through for hearing after hearing. Think about Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.680 how many times he's arrived on the Hill to talk 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.360 about this stuff. But we have yet to see any 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.960 kind of data privacy regulation. And that's why folks like 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.520 Democrat Mark pocon or Elizabeth Warren have in the past 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.040 few days said, Look, we like some of the ideas 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.920 behind this bill. We think we need to be protecting 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.280 American user's data, but let's set up an actual framework 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.680 that does that holistically and doesn't just target one company 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.439 in a bill that the language of it could actually 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:37.080 be deemed illegal, as TikTok will probably take this to 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:38.520 a legal fight if this passes. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.000 I always think it's worth saying out loud it is 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.159 a divest or ban bill, not a big picture, sweeping 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:48.120 piece of social media regulation. Bluebags Alex Brinka terrific reporting 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.639 social platform Reddit gearing up for its IPO this week, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:01.800 or what we can expect from the listening. Let's bring 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.760 in Bloomberg Managing editor Linn Down and lynn Is this week. 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.560 We've been wasting years. What's on your desk this week 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:10.440 and what are you looking for? 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.359 I mean, I'll give you an idea of what we 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.040 are expecting here on the news side, A lot of 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.919 details dropped earlier this week. We know that Reddit and 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.840 some of its existing stakeholders are planning on selling a 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:27.360 total of twenty two million shares. Of that total, fifteen 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.360 million shares are expected to be sold by the company itself, 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:32.359 and they see them going for as much as thirty 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.200 four dollars each. At the top range of that that 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.600 it could end up with the market value of five 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.040 point four billion dollars, making it what I think would 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.639 be the biggest IPO so far this year. But you 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.879 never know what's going to happen with these things. And 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.000 we're told the IPO will price tomorrow and start trading 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.640 the day after, So that'll be the big moment of truth. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:54.359 Yeah, I mean moment of truth. 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.879 Also in the final innings in comes Nokia with some 0:19:58.000 --> 0:19:59.760 legal patent issues. 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.640 Yeah, I mean that surprised us all a little bit 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:05.919 to see that come. Then again, I was I was 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.560 talking to a colleague about it earlier this morning, and uh, 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.000 and I thought, gosh, all these headlines are hitting so 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.479 close to the IPO. But at the same time we 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.919 were thinking, oh, yeah, but this is also the moment 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.200 when companies tend to, you know, drag all the skeletons 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.159 out of the closet and disclose everything upfront and say, 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.080 you know, you need to know what you're what you're 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:29.040 in store for if you decide to invest in our company. 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.080 I mean, in my mind, that pat an infringement complaint 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.760 from Nokia is something to watch. It's definitely worth watching. 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.080 I don't think the company would have disclosed it if 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.080 it wasn't material. And that being said, I think. 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:56.720 Also, Linda, and sorry to cut you off, welcome back 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:57.800 to Bloomberg Technology. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.400 Ed Ludlow here in San Francisco, have your. 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.040 Backhead, I'm Caroline hyding your Let's have a quick check 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.480 on these markets, shall we, Because look, we've actually been 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:09.240 selling off ahead of the Federal Reserve meeting and announcement tomorrow. 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:12.640 But as that one hundred currently off by six ten percent, 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:14.919 so big tech kind of pressure is we basically take 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.040 some profits. This is a crowded trade according to Bank 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.760 of America, when the most crowded trade. 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:20.520