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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 1: bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Reverend Jamie, Hi, Angel Caitlyn, it's me No, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm guardian Angel, Caitlin, your guardian Angel. But not

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Speaker 2: that you mentioned your wife. I just want to say

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Speaker 2: that she's awesome and like so pretty and I love her.

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Speaker 3: Is that cool to me too? I just like, I'm

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Speaker 3: busy running the entire church.

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Speaker 4: Mmmm hmm.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you don't really have time for her and

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Speaker 2: I can have her.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, but let's make sure to not really ask

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Speaker 3: her how she feels at any point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just to be sure, of course.

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Speaker 5: Not.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, great that one. So well, all right, good talk,

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Speaker 2: good talk.

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Speaker 3: Okay, now I banish you back to heaven and make

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Speaker 3: sure the men in Black style wipe my memory before

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Speaker 3: get where you girl.

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Speaker 4: So it's as if the movie didn't happen exactly.

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Speaker 2: But little Jeremiah he's gonna remember me.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because he's kind of like wonder he believes

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Speaker 3: it the magic of Christmas, something something, the little bell

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Speaker 3: for Polar Express, you know, oh yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Hello, and welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Great intro as usual, we're recording earlier in the day

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Speaker 3: than usual.

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Speaker 4: You have to cut some slack.

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Speaker 2: No, no, I think the people loved it.

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Speaker 4: It's it's true. My name is Shamie Loftus.

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Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Deronte, and this is our show

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Speaker 2: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 2: the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. But reverend

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Speaker 2: to Jamie, what is that? I could get used to this?

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Speaker 6: So?

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Speaker 3: The Bechdel Test is a media metric originally created or

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Speaker 3: co created by Alison Bechtel with her and Liz Wallace,

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Speaker 3: originally as a bit for her comic from the nineteen

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Speaker 3: eightiesd Likes to Watch Out For, originally a way of

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Speaker 3: talking about how women were rarely talking to each other

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Speaker 3: about anything in a movie, much less not men. The

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Speaker 3: version of the test we use as we require that

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Speaker 3: two people of a marginalized gender with names talk to

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Speaker 3: each other about something other than a man for two

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Speaker 3: lines of dialogue or more. This is going to be

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Speaker 3: a journey today. True, and we have because it's the

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Speaker 3: holiday season, we are covering holiday movies, and boy, do

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Speaker 3: we have a holiday movie for you today, long time request,

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Speaker 3: The Preacher's Wife from nineteen ninety six, starring Whitney Houston

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Speaker 3: and Denzel Washington and Courtney b Vance and directed by

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Speaker 3: Penny Marshall.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you can't argue with that lineup.

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Speaker 2: You certainly cannot. And here with us to chat about

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Speaker 2: the movie are the hosts of the podcast Two Black

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Speaker 2: Girls Rose. It's a podcast uncovering what we can learn

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Speaker 2: about modern dating, love and relationships from popular television. It's

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Speaker 2: Natasha and Justineways. Welcome, Welcome, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for bringing us this beautiful, wholesome, and a

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Speaker 3: little weird movie.

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Speaker 7: It's one of my favorite remakes.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was a remake until I started

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Speaker 2: doing the research for it. So yeah, it's adapted from

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Speaker 2: an older movie from nineteen forty seven called The Bishop's Wife,

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Speaker 2: which was adapted from a novel of the same name

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Speaker 2: from I think published in the twenties or something like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the original starred Carrie Grant and Loretta Young.

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Speaker 5: Yep, that's right.

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Speaker 4: I did not watch it, but it seemed to.

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Speaker 6: Be very I never watched it, that's right.

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Speaker 4: I don't know where I would watch it. Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 4: I mean I feel like in like the thirties and

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Speaker 4: forties there was.

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Speaker 3: A bad jillion and movies about the spirit of Christmas,

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Speaker 3: and then also in the nineties and then now it's

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Speaker 3: mostly just like Netflix movies about a woman getting bonked

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Speaker 3: on the head on Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 2: So true. So tell us about your relationship, your history

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Speaker 2: with this movie, Justine, do you want to go first?

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Speaker 7: Sure, I can go first. I know this movie line

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Speaker 7: by line. I could play every single character. I could

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Speaker 7: sing every single song. At the very beginning of the

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Speaker 7: movie where she was using ad libs to kind of

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Speaker 7: call and response with the rest of the congregation in

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Speaker 7: the church, I knew every single cue. I knew the lean,

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Speaker 7: I knew the choreography. I know this movie inside and out.

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Speaker 7: So I'm so excited to talk about every element of it.

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Speaker 7: It's also a lot of elements in this movie have

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Speaker 7: happened to me. I've lived with my grandmother, with my family.

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Speaker 7: I have been in the choir at church. My mom

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Speaker 7: is currently in many.

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Speaker 6: Choirs at a church.

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Speaker 7: And church culture was a big part of my growing up.

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Speaker 7: I grew up in a really small church, so this

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Speaker 7: is a really fun movie for me.

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Speaker 2: Nice and Natasha, how about you?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, damn, I didn't know that, Justine.

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Speaker 8: This is like this is oh yeah, movie, damn documentary.

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Speaker 9: I have not watched this in a couple of Christmases.

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Speaker 9: It's hasn't been in my usual records, but I don't

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Speaker 9: know why. We listened to the album for sure, Christmas Morning,

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Speaker 9: cooking Breakfast usually, but yeah, it's been a minute since

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Speaker 9: I watched the movie. So it was definitely like a

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Speaker 9: walk down memory lane a little bit remembering the story.

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Speaker 9: But I loved it. I mean, you can't beat Denzel Whitney.

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Speaker 9: I mean the ensemble cast, just yeah, this is crazy.

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Speaker 9: Music is crazy, the story is you know, magical, and yeah,

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Speaker 9: definitely very nostalgic. I also grew up in the church,

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Speaker 9: and yeah, just watching those elements just very familiar. And yeah,

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Speaker 9: it's been a while, but I'm excited to talk about

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Speaker 9: it with like very fresh eyes.

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Speaker 2: Jamie, how about you.

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Speaker 3: I'd seen this movie a couple of times before I

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Speaker 3: was really into basic cable holiday movie marathons.

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Speaker 4: Halloween marathons, whatever it was.

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Speaker 3: If it was showing on TNT around holiday, saw it

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Speaker 3: with five thousand commercial breaks, which is also how I

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Speaker 3: watched it on TUB to prepare for this episode.

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Speaker 7: Oh my god, so many commercials on Tube.

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Speaker 4: Okay, we've all had. I was like, wow, okay, I'll

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Speaker 4: buy laundry pods. My god. But yeah, I'd seen it

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Speaker 4: growing up several times.

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Speaker 3: I would also say, like Natasha, I grew up more

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Speaker 3: with the soundtrack than.

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Speaker 4: The movie itself. Okay, but I'd seen it many times.

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Speaker 3: The soundtrack is very Christmas Eve, Christmas Morning nostalgic. And

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Speaker 3: the one thing I remember knowing about this movie the

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Speaker 3: strongest was my mom was really into the fact that

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Speaker 3: Whitney Houston's mom was in this movie as well, and

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Speaker 3: so she was I.

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Speaker 4: Think, just mom's solidarity. Don't really know, but she.

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Speaker 3: Was like, that's I don't know, well, not playing her mom,

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Speaker 3: not playing her she's in it.

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Speaker 6: She's like a cameo.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, the Wonders, I think it's the correct me.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the exchange where it's the woman who

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Speaker 3: stops her and is like, are you sure that you

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Speaker 3: want to like split the choir parts? Like that, and

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Speaker 3: Kitney is like yes, and then she's like did you

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Speaker 3: like that? You know, because she's like it was acceptable,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know. I like I ended up falling

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Speaker 3: down a rabbit hole of learning about Whitney Houston's mom,

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Speaker 3: who was also a very accomplished sing singer. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: just didn't know anyways, seen it a couple of times,

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Speaker 3: was really delighted to revisit it, and I think that

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Speaker 3: there's something to really be said for like a wholesome

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Speaker 3: yet somewhat horny Christmas movie, and this really delivers.

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Speaker 4: Kaitlin, what's your history?

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Speaker 2: Well, I have never seen the movie before prepping for

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Speaker 2: this episode, so the whole spectrum is represented between someone

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Speaker 2: who knows this inside and out who had never seen it.

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Speaker 2: So listeners may know that I'm the Grinch of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I am not really into Christmas spirit. I don't have

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Speaker 2: any I'm the Grinch's dog, so I don't seek out

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Speaker 2: Christmas e movies very much unless it's up at Christmas Carol,

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Speaker 2: and then I will watch that every year. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I had never seen this movie, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know what I was expecting, but it was not a

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Speaker 2: horny angel lusting after Whitney Houston and her lusting right back,

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Speaker 2: and then Courtney b Vance being like, hello, can you not?

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Speaker 2: And that's basically the movie.

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Speaker 4: It's a lot to talk about, a lot to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm excited to discuss. Should we just get

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Speaker 2: into the recap?

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Speaker 4: Let's do it all right?

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Speaker 5: Sounds good.

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Speaker 2: Actually, let's take a quick break and then we'll come

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Speaker 2: right back. Okay. So we open with voiceover from a

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Speaker 2: little kid named Jeremiah saying that this story he's about

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Speaker 2: to tell is true, even though no one believes him.

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Speaker 3: So many wholesome family movies are narrated by little boys,

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Speaker 3: specifically yea, let's spread the love around. I feel like

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Speaker 3: we've covered several movies this year that it begins with like, Hi,

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Speaker 3: I'm a little guy.

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Speaker 4: You won't believe what happened.

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Speaker 2: It reminded me of a recent movie we've covered, Soul Food.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, also narrated by the little guy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: I do love a child narrator, though there is trustworthy,

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Speaker 9: the most honest.

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Speaker 4: And you only see them every twenty minutes or so.

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Speaker 6: You're like, oh yeahs gives them reflection.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, says something profound.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So it's a week from Christmas. We are in

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Speaker 2: a church. We meet Jeremiah's mom and dad. So that

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Speaker 2: is Julia Biggs played by Whitney Houston. There's probably a

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Speaker 2: more correct term for this, but I wrote down she's

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Speaker 2: the lead singer of the church choir.

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Speaker 5: Beyonce the yes.

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Speaker 2: Director probably would be okay, yeah, nice. And then her husband,

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Speaker 2: Henry Biggs played by Courtney b Vance. He's the reverend

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Speaker 2: at this church called Saint Matthew's, and he's giving a

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Speaker 2: sermon about temptation, and we're like foreshadowing much very different movie.

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Speaker 3: But it weirdly because I kind of forgot how horny

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Speaker 3: this movie was. But there's also like another like trope

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Speaker 3: of movies that take place in church. It always starts

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Speaker 3: with like an ominous foreshadowing pulpit talk.

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Speaker 4: The same thing happens in Doubt.

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Speaker 5: Very God.

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Speaker 4: It also starts with like, so doubt It's different movies.

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Speaker 6: Also one of my favorites, though I loved that.

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Speaker 4: I really love doubt.

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Speaker 2: Jamie's a big doubt head. Yeah okay. So then we

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Speaker 2: also meet Julia's mom, Marguerite, played by Jennifer Lewis, and

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Speaker 2: things are not going great at the church. They are

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Speaker 2: not pulling in many donations. They have to close the

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Speaker 2: youth center. Henry just feels like he's not doing much

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Speaker 2: good for the community, and so he prays to God

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Speaker 2: to send him some help. And then out of the

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Speaker 2: sky falls Dudley. That's Denzel Washington, and Dudley is thrilled

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Speaker 2: about being there. He's jumping around, he's dancing, and we're like,

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Speaker 2: what's going on here?

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Speaker 6: He scares the children, He does scare them.

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Speaker 7: Oh wait, can I just say one thing about the

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Speaker 7: amount of black icons that we see in the first

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Speaker 7: ten minutes of this film. We see Loretta Devine, Jennifer Lewis,

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Speaker 7: Paul Bates, and Sherry Headley aka Lisa mcdell the icon.

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Speaker 7: So I just wanted to say, how many black icons,

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Speaker 7: especially at that time.

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Speaker 6: I want to say, between like eighty nine and ninety.

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Speaker 7: Seven, those were like really really stand out black actors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then more will show up because then the

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Speaker 2: final Ritchie he's.

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Speaker 4: A jump scare. Oh my god's good, like he did well?

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Speaker 8: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay. So Dudley has fallen out of the sky

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Speaker 2: and he approaches Reverend Henry and he's like, hey, I'm

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Speaker 2: here on behalf of God and I'm here to answer

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Speaker 2: your request. But Henry doesn't believe him. He thinks it's

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Speaker 2: some kind of joke and he drives off. So Dudley's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I guess I'll try a different approach. Then a young

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Speaker 2: black man named Billy gets arrested because he was in

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Speaker 2: the wrong place at the wrong time and he's racially profiled,

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Speaker 2: so he gets put in jail. Henry goes to the

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Speaker 2: police station to try to help, but he can't really

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Speaker 2: do anything about it. And then Henry's car won't start,

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Speaker 2: and Dudley shows up again, and then Henry's car magically starts,

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Speaker 2: and Dudley's like, yeah, I did that because once again

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Speaker 2: I'm an angel. And then he explains that he, you know,

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Speaker 2: used to be a human on Earth, his time was

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Speaker 2: cut short. He went to Heaven, he became an angel,

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Speaker 2: and he's just been waiting for a chance to come

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Speaker 2: back to Earth and help and do good.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's reception of an angel in this movie is on

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Speaker 3: a scale like it makes sense how Courtney b Vance

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Speaker 3: reacts to him.

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Speaker 4: Because he's like, I just don't believe you.

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Speaker 3: This is all in a day's work to be to like,

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Speaker 3: you know, passively accept what someone is saying. But later

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Speaker 3: on it's like seems like other people fully believe he's

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Speaker 3: an angel, and they're like, yeah, there's this angel who's

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Speaker 3: hanging out with us. Now it's Christmas, I guess for

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Speaker 3: a Christmas.

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Speaker 2: But everyone thinks that he was just like sent by

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Speaker 2: the church council to help. I don't think anyone else

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Speaker 2: realizes he's an angel. They're just like he's a guy.

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Speaker 2: He's a nice guy, he's hot.

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Speaker 3: But Whitney Doesny's like hmm okay, like she's very I've

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Speaker 3: used to like any time there's like a supernatural occurrence

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Speaker 3: has to be a scream, there has to be a

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Speaker 3: freaky Friday moment. But everyone's just sort of like, wow,

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Speaker 3: this is wild, very Christmas to all.

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Speaker 9: I also love Dudley's like imagery of like these angels

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Speaker 9: in a waiting room in heaven, just like waiting to

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Speaker 9: get sent down, just like how does it work? What's

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Speaker 9: the process? Or even he seems like excited, like oh

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Speaker 9: and I made it. My number was called.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay, well, and then based on

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Speaker 2: his clothes, I would guess he died in like the nineteen.

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Speaker 6: Fifties because the nineteen.

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Speaker 2: And because he's wearing like a fedora and like you

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Speaker 2: know the OVERCD like men in that era. And so

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Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, he's been waiting for like forty or

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Speaker 2: forty five years or so to be sent back down

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Speaker 2: to Earth. And he doesn't know what like windows is.

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Speaker 2: He's like what how do what is computer? So I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: he's from a different era and he's been waiting for.

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Speaker 6: Dec when was pizza popular?

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Speaker 5: Because he freaks out over the.

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Speaker 6: Pizza in the hot dog.

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Speaker 7: So I don't know when those Oh man, I don't

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Speaker 7: be better about my food history.

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Speaker 5: I got to research this after.

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Speaker 4: Slice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jamie write a book about it. Sorry you're you're

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Speaker 2: at Yeah Okay. So Dudley is with Henry, and he

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Speaker 2: also outlines the rules of being an angel and helping

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Speaker 2: people on Earth, which are that angels can't do anything

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Speaker 2: that people should be doing, that everything that, like a

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Speaker 2: person that an angel helps out does, has to be

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Speaker 2: of their own free will. And finally, when an angel

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Speaker 2: has accomplished his mission and leaves, then the person he

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Speaker 2: was helping in this case, Henry won't have any memory

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Speaker 2: of the angel anymore.

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Speaker 4: That sounds like such a bummer job. I know he

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Speaker 4: makes it. Being an angel sound like a lot of

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Speaker 4: paper pushing, and then and like a lot of waiting around.

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Speaker 3: And then it's like and then you get to do

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Speaker 3: something amazing and maybe you'll even fall in love, but

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Speaker 3: you can never have sex, and then no one remembers

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Speaker 3: you and you have to go back to the waiting room.

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Speaker 2: That's a thankless come.

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Speaker 7: You should be able to have sex if you can't

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Speaker 7: remember coming.

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Speaker 3: On, that's that's right, except Jeremiah will remember for something.

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Speaker 3: He's like, no, Mom, I swear to God, you had

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Speaker 3: sex with Denzel Washington.

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Speaker 6: I'm not the trauma.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a very different tonal sequel to this movie

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Speaker 3: where Jeremiah is in therapy years later being like, I

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Speaker 3: know that this happened, but no one will acknowledge Denzel

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Speaker 3: Washington's presence in my life one week.

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Speaker 5: It's like haunted by the memory of Denzel.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, Okay. So then as Dudley is saying goodbye

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Speaker 2: to Henry, they shake hands and then there's like this

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Speaker 2: surge of warm energy between them, and Henry's like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, what was that? And there's music and it's

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Speaker 2: going like Lily.

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Speaker 6: Does it remind you, guys of The Broad City?

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Speaker 5: Woosh?

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Speaker 9: I didn't connect that up my own, but yet when

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Speaker 9: the wind is knocked out.

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Speaker 6: Of her, yeah, we love the Broad City.

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Speaker 5: Woosh.

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Speaker 7: We Actually.

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Speaker 9: That's one of my favorite episodes. Yes, it's the wind,

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Speaker 9: not that.

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Speaker 2: Which is what happens to Henry. He's like, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: But then he's like, actually, I don't feel anything, and

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Speaker 2: I still don't believe you by now. Meanwhile, things are

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Speaker 2: falling apart. The church boiler explodes, Jeremiah's best friend Hakim

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Speaker 2: is taken away to be put in foster care. Billy

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Speaker 2: has to stay in jail because his bail is too

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Speaker 2: high for his friends or family to be able to

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Speaker 2: pay it. And then also things between Henry and his

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Speaker 2: wife Julia are not great. He is too busy with

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Speaker 2: a lot of these church matters to have much time

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Speaker 2: for her, and Julia's mother, Marguerite, notices and she's like,

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Speaker 2: get your house back together.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Marguerite really is like, hey, get over it.

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Speaker 3: I my husband also neglected me for the same job,

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Speaker 3: and you're like, can you at least commiserate guys.

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Speaker 2: So then Dudley shows up again, being like, actually, I'm

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Speaker 2: the reverend's new assistant. The church council sent me, and

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Speaker 2: Henry's secretary, Beverly, played by Loretta Devine, thinks she's being

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Speaker 2: fired and replaced, and Dudley's like, no, no, no, I'm just

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Speaker 2: here an amazing job.

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Speaker 5: She's so good for that.

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Speaker 6: She's good at that kind of monologue.

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Speaker 5: I'm playing like an anxious character.

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Speaker 4: So well.

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Speaker 7: Have you guys seen her on Watch What Happens Live? No,

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Speaker 7: She's one of my all time favorite guests. I watch

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Speaker 7: She went crazy, God, so drunk.

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Speaker 4: That show is like chaotic.

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Speaker 7: No, I want to be a bartender, so bad, so bad,

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Speaker 7: And if you're listening, please me yes, but yes, Loretta

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Speaker 7: Devine on Watch Happens Live is a very good episode.

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Speaker 2: Hear this gossip, I will watch it, okay. So Dudley's like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm just here to help. And then Julia and Marguerite

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Speaker 2: are like, sounds good to me, especially because you're hot

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Speaker 2: and sexy, so we don't mind having you around basically,

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Speaker 2: and then Dudley hangs out with Jeremiah and confronts him

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Speaker 2: because Jeremiah is sad that Hakim has just left. Then

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Speaker 2: Henry has a meeting with this guy named Joe Hamilton

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Speaker 2: played by Gregory Hines. He's a real estate developer who

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Speaker 2: wants to build like basically a mega church, and he

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Speaker 2: wants Henry to be the reverend there.

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Speaker 3: Also like another like eighties nineties trope of like a

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Speaker 3: land developer as the main antagonist of the movie.

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Speaker 4: We should bring that back, I mean, where does that

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Speaker 4: go now?

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Speaker 2: More than ever, let's villainize landlords. So Henry reluctantly accepts

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Speaker 2: Joe's offer, and then when Henry tells Julie about it,

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Speaker 2: she's furious that Henry didn't consult her and that he

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Speaker 2: sold out. And also her father used to be the

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Speaker 2: reverend at Saint Matthew's, so she feels like extra attachment

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Speaker 2: to it, and she feels like she doesn't want the

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Speaker 2: church to be abandoned or like her presence, her family's

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Speaker 2: presence in the church to go away.

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Speaker 9: That's me was a wild moment, him selling the church

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Speaker 9: that belonged to his wife's father, like out from underneath

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Speaker 9: her without even consulting. It's like, is this real life?

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Speaker 5: How are you going to live past this?

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Speaker 3: And she's only allowed to be upset about it for

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Speaker 3: like a scene. Yeah, and then I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: get over it.

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Speaker 4: You're like, shouldn't you be mad to that?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 4: You have a huge attachment to this church.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, it's like grounds for divorce. It was kind of

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Speaker 9: swept under, like it was nothing.

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Speaker 4: This would be written by man.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I think that's when the audience starts turning and being like,

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Speaker 7: you know what, maybe you can't fuck Denzel Washington.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm rooting for Julia and Dudley.

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Speaker 6: Yeah all that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a scene where I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this movie was written by two men. If they're like, well,

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Speaker 3: they'll discuss the fact that this happened, but also, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's ultimately they have to accept their decision.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So Dudley, meanwhile, he's concerned about Henry and

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Speaker 2: Julia's marriage, so he's like, Julia, all you need to

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Speaker 2: do is just go dancing together and reignite that spark.

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Speaker 2: But Henry is too busy to go. So he's like, Dudley,

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Speaker 2: you take her dancing.

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Speaker 7: So would you imagine handing off your woman to Denzel

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Speaker 7: Washington and go to jazz night?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 5: Her little.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, and she when she's walking down the

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Speaker 2: stairs and Dudley's like, hubba hubba.

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Speaker 3: It's so like I feel like that's the power of

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Speaker 3: Denzel washing, where it's like it's not necessarily a horny shot,

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Speaker 3: but he makes it a horny shot.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, the eyes and it might be a little bit

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Speaker 7: of projection. Now, like you were horny watching Denzil perhaps maybe, or.

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Speaker 2: Horny watching Whitney.

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Speaker 7: It's or horny watching Whitney even very active people. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: it was crazy crazy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So then Julia and Dudley go dancing. Lionel Richie's

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Speaker 2: there and he's like, Julia, you should sing the way

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Speaker 2: you used to when you came here. Because this movie

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Speaker 2: uses any excuse to have Whitney Houston sing. It happens

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Speaker 2: so many times, so many times.

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Speaker 6: I think it's actually really important.

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Speaker 5: Though.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I want to talk about it towards the end,

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Speaker 6: but I think it is important that Whitney, Well, it's important.

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Speaker 6: And also I'm sure it was a demand.

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Speaker 2: I in this movie if I could sing in every

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Speaker 2: twelve scenes. Okay, So she sings, Dudley is like, wooo,

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Speaker 2: good job, and they ultimately just like have a very

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Speaker 2: nice time at the jazz club. They come home Henry,

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00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: But I mean there is so much, so that when

440
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: they come home, Henry is very jealous and he's like,

441
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 2: I don't believe this, and Dudley's like, well, that's your problem.

442
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: You don't believe anything anymore. You're compromising your values, you're

443
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: ignoring your wife, and you haven't even done anything about

444
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: your son losing his best friend, and you don't even

445
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: believe that Billy is innocent. So Henry's like, maybe he's right.

446
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: So Henry goes to the courthouse and gives an impassioned

447
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 2: speech to the judge. Next thing we know, Billy is

448
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: free and home. Then there's a scene where Julia and

449
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: Dudley are ice skating.

450
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 5: And Julian Dudley are on a date.

451
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 3: They're on a date and if you're so on a

452
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 3: date that she is like, Jeremiah, get out of here.

453
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, Jeliah was side eyeing, Yeah, Jeremy bench.

454
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 5: Looking like something is not right here.

455
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 9: Date.

456
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 2: He like knew that he was the third wheel, so

457
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: he's like, I need to sit down, I need to

458
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: go over here drink my cocoa. And then, like Julian Dudley,

459
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 2: if we thought they were vibing before, now they are

460
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 2: by being and this romantic music is playing, and we're like,

461
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: is she gonna have sex with an angel? Happening?

462
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 6: Thrill through my seven year old body.

463
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 7: If I found out that they were going to have

464
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 7: an affair at the local Hilton. Oh my god, y'all

465
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 7: don't even know, do you. Me and Natasha just had

466
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 7: an episode of this reviewing some holiday movies that'll come

467
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 7: out the end of November. But we talked about how

468
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 7: there's not a whole lot of like on screen chemistry

469
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 7: the way that there used to be in films with couples, Like, right,

470
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 7: Whitney and Denzel have such a fair secrecy chemistry, and

471
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 7: Whitney and Courtney have such husband wife Obama chemistry. Yeah,

472
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 7: chemistry this film, I think.

473
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 4: It really is. I feel the same way about a lot.

474
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 3: It feels like there's more of like an algorithmic nature

475
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: to casting now, and it's like not consider like.

476
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 4: Like, okay, who are two people with like huge.

477
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 3: Followings that like aren't the same audiences to be like

478
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: they're in love and it's like it doesn't work.

479
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they do chemistry tests anymore. Yeah,

480
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,959
Speaker 2: before like figuring out who they should cast, they have

481
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: such discrete affair.

482
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 6: Oh, my god, specifics.

483
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: And you know who else can tell is Julia's mom, Marguerite.

484
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: They come home from ice skating and she all but

485
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 2: like screams, and she's like, you cannot have sex with Dudley.

486
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 2: You're married to Henry. And then also Henry sees all

487
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: the chemistry they have and he's like, Dudley, stay away

488
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: from my wife and leave right now. So then there's

489
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: a scene where Julia and Henry are taking Christmas baskets

490
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: to people, and Julia calls him out for being jealous

491
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm not jealous. Meanwhile, Dudley is lurking

492
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: nearby and he uses his angel powers to blow Henry over,

493
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: so he falls in the snow. And then Julia comes

494
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: over and Dudley blows her over next to Henry because

495
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: in an earlier scene, she had told Dudley a story

496
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: about how when they were kids, she and Dudley fell

497
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: in the snow together and that's how they knew they

498
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: were gonna get married someday or something. And so now

499
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: they're in the snow again and they're vibing, they're kind

500
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: of reconnecting as husband and wife, and then other things

501
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: start to get better too. The church has a new boiler.

502
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: Henry has arranged to bring Hakeem back to stay with

503
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: them over the holidays, and then Henry goes to Joe Hamilton,

504
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: that real estate guy, to be like, never mind, I'm

505
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: not going to be a sellout in your mega church.

506
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: And Joe is like, oh yeah, well I bought the

507
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: mortgage and I'm going to tear your church down. And

508
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: so suddenly the stakes are so high. Dudley goes to

509
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: see Joe Hamilton and he's basically like, I'm an angel

510
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: and if you tear down this church, I will see

511
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: to it that you go straight to Hell.

512
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 4: My God. They have the piano that they have at

513
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: the Magic Castle.

514
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: You're like, oh yeah, really impressive, really cool. God, it's

515
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 3: so Christmas movie.

516
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 9: I love the little subtle random ways that they like

517
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 9: wheeled magic and like the power of God, like playing

518
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 9: the piano, why that moment.

519
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, turning on a radio, you know, really powerful stuff.

520
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: He's like, wait, that not even plugged it.

521
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: You're like, yeah, that's God's God.

522
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 2: Okay, So I think it's Christmas Day now. Dudley comes

523
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: to the church to say goodbye to Julia, saying it's

524
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: time for him to leave, and then Henry gives this

525
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: big Christmas sermon in which he was planning to tell

526
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: everyone that the church is going to be torn down,

527
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: but then he goes off script and gives a passionate

528
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: sermon about hope and love and forgiveness and how an

529
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: angel helped him and they're gonna save the church, and

530
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: everyone's like whoo, and Dudley's like, oh, he finally believes me.

531
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: And then Julia sings some more because Whitney Houston put

532
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: in her contract that she has to sing song, and

533
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: then Joe Hamilton is like, never mind, I won't tear

534
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: down your church. And so all is well, which means

535
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: that Dudley's angel mission is accomplished, which also means that

536
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: Henry and Julia forget.

537
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: He has to go back to what sounds like pergetory.

538
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: It sounds like he works, he works a cent.

539
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, it literally sounds like no exit like it sounds scary, Yeah, yes,

540
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 10: but it's heaven right because Dudley accomplished his mission, Henry

541
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 10: Angelia forget Dudley.

542
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: Now they don't recognize him. It's like they never met him,

543
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: but Jeremiah still does. And then the movie ends with

544
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: the family together and happy. They adopt Hakeem and now

545
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: Dudley is the angel tree topper on their Christmas tree.

546
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: The end.

547
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 6: Yes, Merry Christmas.

548
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss,

549
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: and we're back.

550
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 3: But what if all you wanted for Christmas was to

551
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 3: have sex with angel Denzel Washington?

552
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 4: How does that work? How does that square?

553
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 2: Julia does not get her wish, her Christmas wish.

554
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 4: But at least she'll never know.

555
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, shall we start with some context corner?

556
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 5: Yes?

557
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this movie is an adaptation we already said

558
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: for a movie from the forty that none of us

559
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: have ever seen and probably never will, because this one

560
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: is good. Directed by Penny Marshall, obviously a very iconic director.

561
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of it.

562
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: We've covered several of her movies on the show before.

563
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: We recently covered Big, We've covered a leak of their own,

564
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: and now this movie, as it is written by I

565
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: think that this movie is an interesting case, an interesting

566
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 3: I mean questionable case of a lot of high up

567
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: white creatives with an all black cast because the screenplay

568
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: is written by two white guys. However, Denzel Washington was

569
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: the major production force in getting this movie made. It

570
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 3: was produced through his production company, Mundy Lane Entertainment, and

571
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: at the time he gave an interview about sort of

572
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 3: the importance and his commitment to having an all black

573
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 3: cast in this movie, although he did consider having Julia

574
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: Roberts in the main part at one point.

575
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 4: Yes, what then was like, never mind Whitdy Houston, Oh.

576
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 6: My god, that would have changed the whole movie. That's yeah.

577
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 9: No, Jennifer lewis Les was adopted or something.

578
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 4: Jer is all these six years older than I.

579
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 6: Was gonna say.

580
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 7: She does not give Whitney Houston's mom at all.

581
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I kept forgetting that they were at Sisters,

582
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: but okay.

583
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah.

584
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 3: Denzel Washington said this at the time, just about his

585
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: company in general. I'm happy to know that on a

586
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 3: film like Devil in a Blue Dress, we put one

587
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 3: hundred or so many black people to work. And it

588
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 3: was the same thing with the Preacher's Wife, and it

589
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 3: will be the same thing with other films that I'm

590
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: involved in, whether I'm on a producer level or not.

591
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 3: We do it because they're capable and because nobody else

592
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 3: is necessarily looking out for them. Speaking about black actors

593
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: and black creatives in general.

594
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

595
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 9: Nice.

596
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 5: I love knowing that.

597
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 6: I didn't realize that Denzel was.

598
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 9: I mean, I saw that Penny Marshall had directed it,

599
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 9: but it was Donzell's production company behind it, which I

600
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 9: don't know that either.

601
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 5: That feels good.

602
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 9: Also, I think we can get into it, but like

603
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 9: the representation of the church and the black family, and

604
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 9: I think it felt very authentic. So it makes sense

605
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 9: that there were black creatives behind the scene that helped

606
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 9: make it, you know, bring justice to it. Yeah, and

607
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 9: we stand Penny Marshall, but I was like, why her

608
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 9: directing it? Although, like apparently Denzel Washington sought her out

609
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 9: specifically and was like, you need to direct this movie, please,

610
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 9: And she originally turned it down because she didn't think

611
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 9: the script was very good, but then it got rewritten

612
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 9: and then she came on board. Denzel also approached Whitney

613
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 9: Houston and was like, you have to be in this movie, and.

614
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: She said, okay. But I did a little bit of

615
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: research on the novel that it was based on, which

616
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: you know, it's not the most relevant thing except to

617
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: say that it ends very very differently from both the

618
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: movie adaptation from the forties and the preacher's wife.

619
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 4: She does have sex with Denzel Washington.

620
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 7: Yes, please tell me that it's closer to that.

621
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: It's not quite that, but it is closer to it.

622
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 2: So the way the book ends is that the angel,

623
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: who in this case is named Michael, he realizes or

624
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 2: he learns, that he as an angel, can't fulfill quote

625
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: unquote mortal love because it's not related to divine intervention.

626
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 2: So he can't have sex basically because it would be

627
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: inappropriate and it's not divine enough or something and very philosophical.

628
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 6: Okay, wow.

629
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: So he returns to heaven after helping the bishop character,

630
00:36:54,160 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 2: and then Julia realizes that she will never have a

631
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: passionate relationship with her husband. She then decides to have

632
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: another child to share her love with since she knows

633
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: she won't get that love from her husband.

634
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 5: Oh god, weird, I got dark.

635
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 6: Well, it is so weird.

636
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: And when I was also looking up this, but I

637
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: couldn't find a whole lot of information about it. But

638
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: it's also listed as like satire. I think it might

639
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: be more satirical than both movie adaptations, which I think

640
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: are far more earnest.

641
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that makes more sense. Still weird, still.

642
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 7: Weird, weird, but also explains Hakim's character.

643
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 6: Yes, child could be Yeah.

644
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a good point because when I ended the movie,

645
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 9: I didn't really feel that hopeful for Whitney. I mean,

646
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 9: I know, the music is going and everyone's smiling and

647
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 9: it's Christmas, but like, Okay, the church is still gonna

648
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 9: be around. That's great, but he's still busy as hell,

649
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 9: Like that was the real issue with Henry, Like he's

650
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 9: never home. So is that problem solved? Like we don't

651
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 9: get any result on that.

652
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 3: So yeah, I felt the same way, like she's pretty

653
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 3: much back to.

654
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: One at the end of the movie.

655
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: Especially because Henry's assistant, Loretta Divine is like remember that

656
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: part at the end where that character Saul is like,

657
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna marry you, and Reverend You're gonna have to

658
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 2: find a new secretary, implying that like she won't work

659
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: anymore now that she's married. Yeah, so he's gonna be

660
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 2: even more busy. I mean, maybe he'll hire another like

661
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: assistant or secretary. But yeah, it ended a little bizarrely

662
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: to me. Yeah, and then another thing I wanted to

663
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: point out about kind of the development of this movie

664
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: is that an earlier version of the script had Julia

665
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 2: being quite underdeveloped, so, according to an interview with Whitney Houston,

666
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: she says, Julia was a little sterile, and I thought

667
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 2: she needs to be more realistic. She needs to get

668
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: a little mad sometimes because she's being put off a lot.

669
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 2: She needs expression, she needs to be able to express herself,

670
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: and she needs a job. She needs something to do,

671
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: as opposed to The Bishop's Wife, where she was just

672
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: the bishop's wife. So I think she pushed for a

673
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: more developed character in Julia with Rewrites, although I would

674
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: argue that they could have done a bit more to

675
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 2: develop her because, at least for me, like the Julia

676
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: character mostly exists as like the object of two men's

677
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: affection more than like a fully realized, fleshed out yeah

678
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: character who was like allowed to make active choices and

679
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: do anything that steers the direction of the story. And

680
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 2: I think, like Whitney Houston, being that character like maybe

681
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: tricks people into thinking she's a more dynamic and interesting

682
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: character than she actually is. But like I kept being like, yeah,

683
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 2: this movie is called the Preacher's Wife, so I expected

684
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: it to be more about her doing things right.

685
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 3: She's kind of like just I mean, I saw that

686
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 3: quote as well, and I was like, wow, it sucks

687
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 3: that Whitty Houston had to push to get.

688
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 4: What felt like not even this.

689
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 3: Very much, right, Yeah, And I mean I think just

690
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 3: in general, like this is like I don't know if

691
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: this character is a complete example of this, but I

692
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 3: feel like there's very often when there's like a woman

693
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: at the center of a story, especially if she is

694
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 3: a wife and a mother, like she's written in this

695
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: kind of sterile way, and like she's only allowed to

696
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: have an inner life up to a very particular point,

697
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: and then at a point where it actually become a

698
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: threat or like too much about her, it.

699
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 4: Scales back because the script takes great care.

700
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 3: To say like she is an excellent wife and mother,

701
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 3: like that point is hit on repeatedly, and that she

702
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: loves her husband even though like, but we can feel

703
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: the vibe in this see but okay, you know, I

704
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: don't know or like the scenes between her and her

705
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 3: mother feel like they're mostly there to reinforce her goodness,

706
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: even though it's usually her mom yelling at her about potentially.

707
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 4: I don't know.

708
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: I kind of struggled with how kind of underdeveloped she

709
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 3: felt I'm like, just let her have like a crisis

710
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 3: about her marriage, like it doesn't make her a bad person.

711
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 5: Mm hmm.

712
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, her whole focus is on her focus on her

713
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 9: mother's focus is on like the keeping the household together,

714
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 9: meaning their marriage, and yeah, she's not really allowed to

715
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 9: have like an outer life. I guess she gets this

716
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 9: little dalliance with Dudley, But I think it was interesting

717
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 9: how Henry his focus is so external and it's fine,

718
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 9: but it seems as if the issues within their household,

719
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 9: like the success of it being solved, relies on Julia

720
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 9: mm hmm.

721
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 5: Like his business.

722
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 9: His first business is the church and getting that together,

723
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 9: and Julia needs to work harder to get his attention back.

724
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 9: And that's basically yeah, what her focus could only be.

725
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 9: And as soon as she starts something with Dudley, it

726
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 9: eventually gets halted pretty quickly.

727
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah.

728
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 7: I will say her involvement and position at the church

729
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 7: is a pretty common one of most of the times

730
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 7: the preacher's wife is the head of the music at

731
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 7: the church, and her being Whitney Houston obviously.

732
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 6: Gives it a leg up.

733
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 7: But also this is, according to Wikipedia, the best selling

734
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 7: gospel album of all time is the soundject of this film,

735
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 7: which is not surprising because it is fantastic, But what

736
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 7: it also does for Julia is it kind of gives

737
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 7: her kind of like a sister act kind of storyline

738
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 7: of like I have this talented choir just waiting for stardom.

739
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 7: Like it gives her that kind of leadership position, but

740
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 7: it's still at her husband's church, so it's still kind

741
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 7: of underneath her husband's kind of wing or shadow. But

742
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 7: what it does do is give her a leadership position

743
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 7: and a place where she can like really stand out

744
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 7: in this film.

745
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: Which apparently she had to fight for again. She's like yeah,

746
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 2: She's like, can my character do can she have a job,

747
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: do anything?

748
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 5: Do anything? Yeah?

749
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 6: Yeah? Can I just sell these records? But you know

750
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 6: I can, like.

751
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: O right, yeah.

752
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 7: But I just thought that was a really it's a

753
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 7: part of the film that I never thought about of

754
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 7: how important the soundtrack is to the development of Julia's character.

755
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 4: Totally.

756
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Justine, because this movie is a documentary, how did

757
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 3: you feel about how the church was representative portrayed within the.

758
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 7: Movie so perfectly, so perfectly. That's why it does not

759
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 7: surprise me, even though I didn't know it that Denzel

760
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 7: Washington's production company was behind this because I went to

761
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 7: a church where it was really small. There was no

762
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 7: air conditioning, but it was a stop on the underground railroad,

763
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 7: so there was like.

764
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 6: A historic aspect to the church.

765
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,479
Speaker 7: It's been around since like eighteen fifty six, I think,

766
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 7: but it's like so small.

767
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 6: The people who run it are all seventy.

768
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 7: Plus and the choir is like phenomenal, and they made

769
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 7: most of their donations and money through Christmas.

770
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 5: So this is a very accurate portrayal.

771
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 3: And then I thought it was cool that the Georgia

772
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: Mass Choir is like the main like it's like a professional, huge.

773
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 5: Successful mm hmm.

774
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:40,959
Speaker 4: Yep.

775
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 5: I was gonna add another.

776
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 9: I think really authentic aspect of the church in the

777
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 9: movie is like the struggling black church.

778
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 6: Yep.

779
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 9: I feel like every church I've been to there's like

780
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 9: a building fund. There's like a fundraiser for something. Something's broken,

781
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 9: somebody's son needs the down payment for, you know, a

782
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 9: new house, sore needs the deposit for school, and the

783
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 9: whole community.

784
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 5: Is rallying around.

785
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 6: So I thought that was very very true to form.

786
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 9: When I think it's billy, they get to bailed money

787
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 9: for Billy, and like how involved Henry was, how involved

788
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 9: everybody was. That is I mean, that's so authentic to

789
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 9: just like the community feel of church, even the moment

790
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 9: where the youth center got closed and how like devastating

791
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 9: that was just for the kids, because oftentimes the church.

792
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 6: Is that's the hangout spot.

793
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, not even during Sundays, like maybe during the

794
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 9: week once they know your life is going to Bible

795
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 9: study and then you're just like hanging out with everybody else,

796
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 9: you know, downstairs at the youth center. So yeah, I

797
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 9: thought that was very very authentic. Just those little tiny

798
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 9: moments made it very much like, Okay, this is we're

799
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 9: in a for real black church.

800
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 6: It's not just a movie. This feels like real.

801
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 5: Yeah.

802
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: That's something I really liked about the movie is that

803
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: it presents this notion of like just because it's Christmas

804
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: time doesn't mean that all of these like issues that

805
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: affect a community go away, the way that so many

806
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 2: Christmas movies are like, Wow, it's the most magical time

807
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 2: of year. It's cookies and gingerbread men and sugar and

808
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: cocoa and everything's amazing and so beautiful, which and that's

809
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 2: because so many movies center upper middle class white characters

810
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: or families in like predominantly white suburbs, or they'll be

811
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: in like castles or an estate something like that. And

812
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: I just appreciate that this movie centers a black family

813
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: and black community, and you know, it has it depicts

814
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 2: a lot of things that affect this community. You know,

815
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: the struggle of a lot of these characters being in

816
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 2: a poorer class, a character being racially profiled and arrested

817
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: just days before Christmas, Like these things unfortunately do happen

818
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: in the movie. Is like, yeah, these things don't stop

819
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: happening just because it's December twentieth or something.

820
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I never thought about that. It's a good point.

821
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 3: And it's still like a like it presents all these

822
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 3: very real, authentic issues.

823
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 4: It also still is.

824
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 3: A very like joyful movie and has like a very

825
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 3: hopeful message, which I feel like is a difficult needle

826
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: to kind of thread at that this movie does really well.

827
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a good point because I feel like, sometimes, yeah,

828
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 9: it could be a very thin line with like a

829
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 9: movie that's trying to show like social issues or like

830
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 9: the plight of you know, black poverty or whatever, like

831
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 9: it could get you know, dark and said, and the

832
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 9: way that they're able to maintain like humor and magic

833
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 9: and romance is actually really impressive.

834
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: It is.

835
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, you need all those characters. You need the guy

836
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 7: who drives the church van. You need the nice lady

837
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 7: who's a lawyer who goes to church like. You need

838
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 7: all those people in order to insert all that he

839
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 7: were and levity into these situations because they.

840
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 5: Bring it in real life.

841
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: You need Loretta Divine to be there.

842
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 6: You have to have Loretta Divine.

843
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 4: Yes, I wish that we had more Loretta Divine. I

844
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 4: mean mainly.

845
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: For for like the comic relief through line of like

846
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 3: she thinks that Denzel Washington is trying to displace her

847
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 3: when he's working for his job. Is I think, much

848
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 3: worse than anyone else is in the movie. It sounds

849
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 3: like he lives in hell kind of.

850
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: Do you see how excited he was when he was

851
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: eating pizza. He's like, oh my God, I haven't had

852
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 2: food in forty years.

853
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 4: Does God not let you eat?

854
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 9: I started torturing them up there. What I thought it

855
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 9: was supposed to be fataday so that you could.

856
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 6: Get whatever you want, whatever you wanted. However you want

857
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 6: to be made.

858
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 3: What God's like feeding them astronaut food. They're like, yeah, anyways,

859
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 3: but I wish that we had more Loretta. Did we

860
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: do learn a little bit about her character? We know

861
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 3: that she's a single mom, But I just felt like,

862
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 3: like we talk about on the show all the time,

863
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 3: there were opportunities and characters and obviously like unbelievable actors

864
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 3: that like, why wouldn't she take advantage of an opportunity

865
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 3: to show Loretta Divine and Whitney Houston like acting together more?

866
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 3: Because also this came out the year after Waiting to Exhale,

867
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 3: You're like, oh my god, chemistry is off the charts, Like,

868
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: write a more meaningful friendship for them.

869
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 4: Because it's like if you cast Leratta divine.

870
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously every second she's on screen is amazing.

871
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 3: It's again, it's very like two guys read this movie

872
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: that Denzel Washington's Christmas gift to her is a boyfriend.

873
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 4: But it was sweet. I liked it, Like, I just

874
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 4: felt like.

875
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 3: There was so much more potential for that character, especially

876
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 3: because we already know that she and Whitney Houston have

877
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 3: like unbelievable chemistry because of a huge movie that came

878
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 3: out the year before.

879
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a good point. They very much underutilized her. Yeah.

880
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 5: I think another thing in the movie.

881
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 9: There was a lot of little subplots, not all necessary.

882
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 9: I love Loretta, love to see her, but that was

883
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 9: like a random subplot. I agree, Like Whitney really only

884
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 9: talks with her mother, more confides in her mother, I

885
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 9: guess a little bit in Dudley. But yeah, I don't

886
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 9: know why they didn't give her like an out or

887
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 9: have some other aside a.

888
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: Friendship, a female friendships and how scandalous would it have

889
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: been if it was her husband's assisted That would have

890
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 2: been fabulous.

891
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 3: At another subplot, Yeah, because Loretta Devine has like information

892
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 3: about him that she like.

893
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 4: That's that's an important friendship.

894
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly knows his schedule. That's how she could sneak

895
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 7: around with the dates with Dudley. She could have gone

896
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 7: on more dates.

897
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 9: Like.

898
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 3: They started a Googled calendar for instadality.

899
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 4: That makes me so happy. Uh Yeah, And I think

900
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 4: like I liked that. I mean, yeah, I guess that

901
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 4: Julia and Dudley are friends. I get. I mean they're friends,

902
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 4: but also they're friends, they have.

903
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 5: More than friends.

904
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 2: They're winking at each other. They're flirting.

905
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 3: I guess this is like my last thought on Julia's

906
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 3: character is that I think it's interesting that they give

907
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 3: her And I'm pretty sure this detail was added when

908
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 3: Whitney Houston was cast to justify her singing more of like, oh,

909
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: she used to really like singing at this club, but

910
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 3: now she only sings at the church, but she still

911
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: misses singing at the club and really enjoyed it, and

912
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 3: Lionel Ritchie.

913
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 4: Wishes that she was there. More just a cool detail.

914
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: I really liked that scene, but I feel like it

915
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: like introduces like one of those subplots that like she

916
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 3: is looking for fulfillment outside the church and looking for

917
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 3: like validation of her singing outside the church, but she

918
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: doesn't get that, and everyone close to her, especially I

919
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 3: mean definitely her husband, but also Dudley and her mom

920
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 3: kind of like reinforced to her, like you should be

921
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,479
Speaker 3: happy with what you have, like that Dudley literally says

922
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: that to her. He's saying, like everything you ever wanted,

923
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 3: you already have, and it's like, well, I'm pretty sure

924
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 3: several scenes ago she told you that's not true. Like

925
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 3: I found it, like in the way that again, like

926
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 3: the wife and mother box of like you're lucky to

927
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 3: be in the place that you are, and it would

928
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 3: be selfish to want more or different.

929
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 7: It's important too that in that scene at the club,

930
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 7: she's singing a secular song, she's not singing a song

931
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 7: about God.

932
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, that is really important to the film. And that's yeah.

933
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 4: Wow.

934
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 7: I never really even realized how like instrumental that one

935
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 7: scene is to giving us a little tease into who

936
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 7: she was before.

937
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 5: But that's true.

938
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 7: And I always, my, well, my whole family is always like,

939
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 7: she's not singing about God and this she's singing about

940
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 7: her and Dudley.

941
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 6: This is scandalous and crazy.

942
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:01,479
Speaker 4: But it's such a good song.

943
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I love that song.

944
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 2: I think that Henry kind of gets let off the

945
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 2: hook a little too easily because, like I understand that

946
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: he is a very important member of this community. A

947
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: lot of people look to him for guidance and for

948
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: assistance and all this kind of stuff. So he's very

949
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 2: you know, busy running around, but he is like pretty

950
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 2: actively neglecting his relationship with his partner. And like we said,

951
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: like Marguerite is always on Julia's case about it. She's

952
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 2: never on Henry's case to be like.

953
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 3: Even though she doesn't like him, which is where like,

954
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 3: why are you defending him so hard when you seem

955
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 3: to actively dislike.

956
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: Him, right, yeah, And she's like, well, you know, my

957
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: husband was the same way, and that's just how it is.

958
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: And it's like it doesn't.

959
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 4: You hate him too, like you don't have to be

960
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 4: nice to him.

961
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, Marguerite's always being like Julia, the responsibility is

962
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 2: on you to like maintain this household and keep this

963
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 2: family together, but like seems like she's doing all she can. Meanwhile, Henry,

964
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 2: you know, he's doing his responsibilities around the community, but

965
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 2: he also doesn't seem to be fully acknowledging that it's

966
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,959
Speaker 2: taking a toll on his marriage. And there's a scene

967
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: where like I think they're eating breakfast together and he's

968
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 2: like being snippy and he says something like, if you

969
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 2: were listening more closely, you would have heard an apology

970
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: in there, But now I have to go to a meeting,

971
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, you actually didn't apologize, which is

972
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 2: why no one heard it. And then he like gets

973
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: so and like I get it. He's like very threatened

974
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: by Dudlin understandable. It's Denzel Washington. He's very handsome, and

975
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: he's also actively seducing his wife, but he doesn't seem

976
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: to take much accountability for their relationship, and I think

977
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: by the end, he still doesn't fully recognize like, oh,

978
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 2: I need to be a more present partner in this

979
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 2: relationship and good thing that I don't know who Dudley

980
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 2: is anymore, or else I would still probably be really jealous.

981
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that's what's really missing from the movie,

982
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 9: is like a full circle moment for Henry acknowledging, like

983
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 9: a full accountability moment. Yeah, that's why I kind of

984
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 9: ended being like I don't really have much hope for them,

985
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 9: Like the church isn't sold yay, but like your marriage

986
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 9: is still in the good And I think also, yeah,

987
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 9: Henry is he.

988
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 5: Gets off very easily.

989
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 9: He's not only neglectful of his wife, but even his son.

990
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 9: His son's ye best friend got sent to foster care.

991
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 9: Like no conversation between the two of them. He keeps

992
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 9: missing moments and appointments with his son, and like you

993
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 9: don't see Marguerite saying anything about that, Like it's really

994
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 9: very much focused on the marriage, and you know, poor

995
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 9: little jeremiahs like sitting back witnessing all of this and

996
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 9: getting the brunt of it in his own way by

997
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 9: not having his dad present, for sure.

998
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 4: And then has to remember all of it and no

999
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 4: one else does.

1000
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,760
Speaker 6: He's the only one with the trauma.

1001
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 4: Oh my god, yeah, I agree.

1002
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: I'm not convinced at the end of the movie that

1003
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 3: he's necessarily going to treat her better right now that

1004
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: everything's done. And also that doesn't make the work he's

1005
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 3: doing in his community any less important and he less impactful,

1006
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 3: any less taxing on your energy. But it feels like

1007
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 3: a very low bar to be like, Okay, so he's

1008
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 3: not going to sell her family's church to a land developer.

1009
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 4: You're like, that's a really low bar. Yeah, that shouldn't

1010
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 4: have been on the table.

1011
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, he had did not sell the church. It was

1012
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 6: handed to you by your wife's family. It's true.

1013
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 2: Joe Hamilton, by the way, speaking of this land developer guy,

1014
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 2: I was like Joe Hamilton because black people can be

1015
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 2: bloodsucking real estate sharks. Too interesting.

1016
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 6: Also another iconic black actor.

1017
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 9: Oh my god, yeah, for sure, that is interesting. The

1018
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 9: choice of making the real estate vulture guy a black

1019
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 9: guy and he's from the community too, right, he seems

1020
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 9: very familiar. Yeah.

1021
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder how that is done in the a. Again,

1022
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 3: like we didn't watch the original or read the original.

1023
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 3: I wonder if that is like a one to one

1024
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 3: thing from the original.

1025
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 4: Don't know the.

1026
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: Movie, and I think the book focuses more on the bishop.

1027
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 2: Bishop Henry is trying to raise money to build a

1028
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 2: huge cathedral for his overcrowded parish. So it's actually the

1029
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: bishop's idea to be like, let's build a huge church,

1030
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 2: rather than an outside like real estate developer coming in

1031
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 2: and trying to bring the bishop onto the mega church. Yeah,

1032
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: so that's a story change. I don't even know if

1033
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: there is a real estate developer character in the original

1034
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 2: source material anyway.

1035
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 3: Again, a very nineties choice, Like I it's like that

1036
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 3: is a main plot point in Casper.

1037
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 4: That was the main plot point.

1038
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 2: In like so many Save the Build, the Hannah Montana movie,

1039
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 2: Save the Building.

1040
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, save the building. And it's like, I mean, in

1041
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 4: the case.

1042
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,439
Speaker 3: Of this movie, in the case of all those movies, yeah,

1043
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 3: they had to save the building.

1044
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the stakes they're high. I wanted to

1045
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about Julia and Marguerite's relation. Actually,

1046
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like we maybe covered it.

1047
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 9: I do want to add though, like I love I

1048
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 9: love Jennifer Lewis. She has played so many mothers, so

1049
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 9: many black films.

1050
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 2: I love her character.

1051
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 5: She's terrible but also great.

1052
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's always like I don't like to get into

1053
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 2: other people's business, and all she does is get into

1054
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: other people's.

1055
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 6: Everybody's up in the business.

1056
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, smoking her cigarette in the house as the child's

1057
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 9: walking around.

1058
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 3: God bless, it's great. I also, I still am like

1059
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 3: brutal that they cast her as Whitney's mom when she

1060
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,919
Speaker 3: is I can't say it enough, a mere six years older.

1061
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 4: Ridiculous than Whitney.

1062
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 3: She was born in fifty seven, Whitney was born in

1063
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 3: sixty three.

1064
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 4: That does happen every once in a while.

1065
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 3: I feel like that was a that was a big

1066
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 3: thing people talk about with Golden.

1067
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 4: Girls all the time too.

1068
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, is that like the mother daughter were unbelievably

1069
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 3: close in age, and you're like, oh, you're kind of

1070
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 3: roasting this other actor for no reason. But anyways, Yeah, No,

1071
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 3: Jennifer Lewis, it's like, I mean, it's not like you

1072
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 3: would want anyone else playing this part.

1073
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and she has.

1074
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 6: Just like strong black mom energy.

1075
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 9: She does.

1076
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 7: She has strong black mom energy, and she could really

1077
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 7: be a villainous in a great way. And she was

1078
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 7: a little bit of a villain in this film, I think, but.

1079
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 2: In a very like realistic, authentic fairly.

1080
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, just like all up in their business, observing their

1081
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 9: marriage because she lives there, always wants to put her

1082
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 9: two cents in there, and then yeah, cracking down on

1083
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 9: her daughter for what's going on your house, like get

1084
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 9: it together. I taught you better than this. I wish

1085
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 9: she I mean, she's very authentic, so it is what

1086
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 9: it is. I wish she had a little bit more

1087
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 9: of like a harder stance against.

1088
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 5: Henry right yeah, and calling.

1089
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 9: Trying to hold him account, but more than just her daughter.

1090
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 9: I wish even just like one or two more lines

1091
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 9: about that would have been just add a little bit

1092
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 9: more balanced and have you know, someone else on Julia's team.

1093
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 9: But I think they wanted to keep her character very traditional,

1094
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 9: just like the focus daughter, your focus is on the household,

1095
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 9: Remember that that was what my focus was.

1096
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 5: Now I passed that on to you, right.

1097
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah.

1098
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 3: I mean it's like again, most of the women we've

1099
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 3: talked about, Like, there's certainly more that could have been

1100
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 3: done with her.

1101
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 4: Again, we could have given her a friend in the church.

1102
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 3: This is a community she's like been connected to for

1103
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 3: longer than anyone else in the movie.

1104
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 4: But they sort of were like, no, we're just gonna

1105
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 4: sort of.

1106
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 3: Have her scold witty Houston in the kitchen every twenty

1107
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: minutes or so.

1108
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:29,919
Speaker 4: I liked her scene with Denzel that was fun.

1109
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 2: Oh, when she's like, walk me over to the neighbor's house,

1110
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: stay away from my daughter.

1111
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like should they hook up? Like I'm open

1112
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 4: to what this looks like.

1113
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 6: Anybody?

1114
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,439
Speaker 2: I mean, well, okay, when we first meet Marguerite, when

1115
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 2: Jeremiah's like giving voice over and like introducing all the

1116
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 2: main characters, he says something like and that's my grandma.

1117
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: Everyone says she needs a man, whatever that means, and

1118
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, forgot I mean, god.

1119
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 6: It's so unnecessary.

1120
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, another unnecessary dig.

1121
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 9: Like an unnecessary dig, but also a very true aside

1122
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 9: that we're in the church looking at.

1123
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 5: She's still single.

1124
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 9: We haven't hooked up with anybody yet. Again, what happened

1125
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 9: to the last one? Like that's also so true.

1126
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 2: And then I want to list off a few because

1127
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 2: horny angel representation is important. There's been a lot of

1128
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 2: horny angel erasure.

1129
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 4: Are there other horny angels? I can't think of another

1130
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 4: horny angel.

1131
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 2: And no, I'm saying that it's been nothing but erasure.

1132
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 4: Horness is beautiful and from Heaven, exactly right. It's why

1133
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 4: people exist.

1134
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 2: The scene where Dudley tells Julia to buy a neglige

1135
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: because he's like, oh my god, I would look so

1136
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 2: hot in this, Oh my god, for your husband, but

1137
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 2: it would be so hot.

1138
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 3: And she's like, I don't know, I'm looking for a

1139
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 3: present from my son. And he's like, oh, okay, never mind,

1140
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 3: never mind, never mind.

1141
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 4: The moment is passed.

1142
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 2: It's yeah. And then the scene towards the end where

1143
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: Dudley's looking at Julia and Henry's wedding photo and then

1144
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 2: he uses his like angel powers to replace Henry with

1145
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 2: his own image, and then God gets pissed off and

1146
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 2: like thunder happens, and he's like, sorry, maybe they'll reunite

1147
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 2: in heaven or purgatory or.

1148
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 4: I don't want to go to that version of heaven.

1149
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 2: Stress. Hope, yeah, I hope.

1150
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 9: He gets another assignment to come back somehow escapes.

1151
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 2: I also wanted to shout out Hans Zimmer wrote the

1152
01:03:58,760 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 2: score for this movie.

1153
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 7: Yeah wild really yeah, oh wow, wow, I didn't know that.

1154
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,479
Speaker 5: I mean, the music is amazing, Yeah it is. Yeah, yeah,

1155
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 5: it makes sense. Wow.

1156
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 2: And then I also just to point out, like there

1157
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 2: are a handful of characters that make like fat phobic

1158
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 2: comments for jokes.

1159
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, that just.

1160
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 2: Feels very of the era for like casual fat phobia

1161
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: to be just so normal in a movie of this time.

1162
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 6: When did fat phobia stop in films?

1163
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 2: Never?

1164
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 7: Never?

1165
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 8: Right?

1166
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 2: Okay, it's just still there.

1167
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 5: Cool, Okay, yeah.

1168
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, does anyone have anything else they want to

1169
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 2: talk about?

1170
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 9: I just thoroughly enjoyed watching this. I have to just

1171
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 9: like think about because this came out when nineteen ninety six.

1172
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 6: I was even just looking at everyone's career.

1173
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 9: At this time, Denzel had just won the Oscar for

1174
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 9: Glory mess supporting. We had got to see him as

1175
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:09,200
Speaker 9: Malcolm X Philadelphia, like we know Denzel.

1176
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 6: Now and then you know twenty whatever thirty years later.

1177
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 9: But he was kind of I don't want to say

1178
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 9: up and coming, but he was still in the early

1179
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 9: stages of his career seem to see just to have

1180
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 9: that context. And then Whitney too, she was just in

1181
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 9: The Bodyguard. Courtney b Vance, I think had won a

1182
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 9: Tony already by now for Fences, Jennifer Lewis is in

1183
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 9: a million.

1184
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 5: Movies by now.

1185
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 9: The cast is just really impressive, like just so super stacked,

1186
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 9: especially now in twenty twenty three thinking about all these

1187
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 9: people's careers. Now, just how special of a movie it

1188
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 9: was to have this like ensemble black cast.

1189
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that.

1190
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 2: And even though I'm lukewarm on the Reverend Henry character,

1191
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 2: Courtney b vanced like his speech at the courthouse and

1192
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 2: then his sermon, especially at the very end of the movie,

1193
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 2: I was like, do I believe in God now? Like

1194
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: he's making a believer out of me.

1195
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 3: He's so good, especially at the end where it's like

1196
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 3: a four minute speech, where again the takeaway from that

1197
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 3: speech is that he's not going to have the church

1198
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 3: turned into a mall, And you're like the fact that

1199
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 3: this that's this powerful in spite.

1200
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 4: Of you doing so little. He's really impressive. The testament to.

1201
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 2: Him, Yeah, he's the one who convinces Joe Hamilton to

1202
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 2: not tear down the church, even though an angel had

1203
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 2: showed up the night before to be like, I'm going

1204
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 2: to send you to hell if you do this. But

1205
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 2: Joe Hamilton's still like there to be like, well, this

1206
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: is the last little sermon before I rip this place down,

1207
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 2: and then he's like, wait a minute, now that the

1208
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 2: reverend giving his sermon, it feels like that's what convinces

1209
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: him to change his mind.

1210
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think definitely as problematic as Henry's character is

1211
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 9: in being the neglectful husband, father, all this, I think

1212
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 9: his characters probably fully formed the best I think in

1213
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 9: terms of he really does a great job or maybe

1214
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 9: the writing is a great job of showing him as

1215
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 9: like the black lead of the church and how how

1216
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 9: much they really belong to the community, and that struggle

1217
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 9: of yeah, he has a life as kids, but he

1218
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 9: also belongs to everybody else, and the seeing him kind

1219
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 9: of drowning in that I empathize with him as terrible

1220
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 9: as he is as a.

1221
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 5: Husband and so many other things.

1222
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 9: You can see his exhaustion of like I just want

1223
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 9: to sit down and maybe yeah, I just want to

1224
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 9: be a family man, but instead I belong to everybody

1225
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 9: in the community.

1226
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 5: And I think Corney B.

1227
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 9: Vance does a great job at bringing that and the

1228
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 9: writing brings a great job of bringing that to life.

1229
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 9: I wish, obviously we could have saw more of that

1230
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 9: out of Whitney's character as the wife of that person,

1231
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 9: because that is a whole other lived experience, being the

1232
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 9: first lady of a big church. So that's what's disappointed.

1233
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 9: Particularly so it's called the Preacher's wife, and you would

1234
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 9: hope that we could see more her story. But I

1235
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 9: will give Corney b. Vance and his character that credit.

1236
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 9: That felt very I was able to empathize with him

1237
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 9: on that.

1238
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, that was a question I had as far

1239
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 2: as because this is a movie adapted from two different

1240
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 2: kind of source materials, both properties. You know, the the

1241
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 2: nineteen forty seven movie cast creative minds behind that All

1242
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 2: White People. The novel Oh Yeah, came out in nineteen

1243
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 2: twenty eight, again by Robert Nathan. He's a sephardic two

1244
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:47,600
Speaker 2: he I assumed, because this movie again feels very authentic.

1245
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, this must just be like an original,

1246
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 2: unadapted thing. But to learn that it was adapted from

1247
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 2: source materials that were not written and created by black

1248
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 2: creators and because this particular movie, Preacher's Wife, was written

1249
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 2: and directed by white filmmakers. Is there anything that feels

1250
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 2: like inauthentic to these black characters, the black community, the

1251
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 2: black experience, or does it feel like they pretty much

1252
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 2: nailed it, because that's always a concern I have where

1253
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, a black cast.

1254
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, but the top creative voices money.

1255
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1256
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a great question. I think they nailed it.

1257
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 7: Honestly, I was gonna say no, even the landlord's character him,

1258
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 7: it's actually really important that he was from the hood

1259
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 7: and acts like that.

1260
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: M hmm.

1261
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 6: That's actually like a.

1262
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 7: Really common thing that I think happens across many ethnicities,

1263
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 7: but definitely in the black community. Or once you get money,

1264
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 7: you're just willing to step on whoever, because you can't

1265
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 7: go back. You can't even imagine going back to the

1266
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 7: place that you came from. So yeah, I would say

1267
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 7: nothing's really missing, which is remarkable.

1268
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 4: I mean, Natasha, you said it earlier too.

1269
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 3: It's like, I'm sure that Denzel Washington's production company being

1270
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 3: so like integral to this movie getting made.

1271
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

1272
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 3: And Denzel Washing did like made good on that statement

1273
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 3: he made in ninety six of like centering black characters

1274
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 3: and getting black creatives involved. I was looking over just

1275
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:32,440
Speaker 3: the roster of movies that he's produced or his production company.

1276
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 4: Has made over the years, and it's like, awesome.

1277
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would not have guessed this was written and

1278
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 9: directed by white people.

1279
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 4: Never.

1280
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would not. Though I was surprised when I

1281
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 9: read that, was like, oh yeah, that was after the fact.

1282
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 9: So yeah, I think they definitely nailed it for sure.

1283
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 2: Okay, good to know.

1284
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 3: Also, annual shout out to how many classic Christmas songs

1285
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 3: and stories are written by Jewish people.

1286
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,720
Speaker 4: It's like, That's Wild.

1287
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 3: Irving Berlin, White Christmas, the Christmas song read Off the

1288
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 3: Red Nose Reindeer, Silver Bells, Winter Wonderland, I'll Be Home

1289
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 3: for Christmas, all written by Jewish composers.

1290
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, wow, shout out.

1291
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, that's one of my favorite facts to visit

1292
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 3: every Christmas.

1293
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 4: Cool. But does this movie pass the Bechdel test?

1294
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 2: I think it does. Between Julia and Marguerite, in a

1295
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 2: small handful of exchanges, they are usually talking about Henry

1296
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:39,679
Speaker 2: or Dudley or Jeremiah, but I think there's an exchange

1297
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 2: where in the context of this conversation is still like

1298
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 2: Marguerite being like, you need to get your household under control,

1299
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,759
Speaker 2: and Julia doesn't want to hear it, so she's like, Okay,

1300
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 2: you can watch me leave and you can look at

1301
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 2: my behind. She like, I gave you that behind. So

1302
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:08,640
Speaker 2: they're talking about Whitney Houston's butt and that does cast.

1303
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 4: And that's an important exchange. Yeah, it actually is for

1304
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 4: their relationship. So it does pass. It does I mean,

1305
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 4: like this whole conversation speaks to you.

1306
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 3: I think there were plenty of opportunities for the women

1307
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 3: in this story to interact more and have more meaningful relationships.

1308
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 4: So even though it does pass, I would say, like

1309
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 4: spiritually not a very strong pass.

1310
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 3: We could be ahead and way more women talking to

1311
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 3: each other, for sure. But what about the world's most

1312
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 3: important metric which we made up.

1313
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 2: Yes, it's the nipple scale, our scale of zero to

1314
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 2: five nipples where we examine the movie through an intersectional

1315
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 2: feminist lens. I would give this.

1316
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:53,719
Speaker 9: Man.

1317
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 2: I wish I could go higher, but I feel like

1318
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 2: I could only give it like two nipples because while well,

1319
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 2: it does feel like it really represents the black community

1320
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 2: in the Black church authentically I wished for so much

1321
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 2: more for the Julia character. I wished for more from

1322
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 2: Loretta Divine's character, but again, especially Julia, where the movies

1323
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 2: called the Preacher's wife in theory, it should be kind

1324
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 2: of her doing more stuff and being able to make

1325
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 2: more active choices, and instead she again just ends up

1326
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 2: kind of being the object of affection of Dudley the Angel,

1327
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:38,560
Speaker 2: Dudley the horny Angel.

1328
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 3: And so sing that to the tune of Rudolph the

1329
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 3: redne wants to buy you Launcher Ray.

1330
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 2: He will take you ice skating. Okay, So the relationship

1331
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 2: between Julia and her husband Henry just feels like there's

1332
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 2: not nearly as much of an arc as I would

1333
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:10,839
Speaker 2: have wanted, because she's putting in all of the effort

1334
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 2: into their relationship and to like being a parent to

1335
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:19,679
Speaker 2: their child, and Henry is kind of neglecting his family

1336
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 2: unit and paying way more attention to the community, which

1337
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:26,639
Speaker 2: of course is important, but like he needs to find

1338
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 2: a balance and I don't think he does by the

1339
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 2: end of the movie, and that makes me feel really

1340
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 2: sad for Julia. But the movie ends on a note

1341
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 2: of like, no, everything's fine now, and I'm like, but

1342
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 2: is it okay, so and again, I just found Julia

1343
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 2: to be underdeveloped. I wish she had just more of

1344
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 2: an exterior life and just we knew more about her

1345
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 2: and what her hopes and dreams were, you know, outside

1346
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,679
Speaker 2: of her relationship. But you know, I love to watch

1347
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 2: Whitney Houston sing. I loved watch Jennifer Lewis.

1348
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,640
Speaker 4: Which is ultimately what this movie is.

1349
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 2: All of my would really basically, if you take out

1350
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: the singing scenes, the movies forty five minutes long. But yeah,

1351
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 2: I just there was a lot to be desired for me,

1352
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 2: for Julia's character. So I'll go with two nipples, and

1353
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 2: I will give one to the late great Whitney Houston,

1354
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 2: and I'll give the other to We'll split the other

1355
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 2: between Jennifer Lewis and Loretta Divine Nice.

1356
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go a little higher. I'm gonna go I'm

1357
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 3: gonna go three. I think that for all the reasons

1358
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 3: we discussed, this movie is not in spite of the title.

1359
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 4: I feel like we see this pretty often.

1360
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 3: In spite of the title, is not actually a movie

1361
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 3: about a woman. It's kind of a movie about two

1362
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 3: men and how they feel about this woman. We are

1363
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 3: not really clued into how Julia feels at length at

1364
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 3: any point, and I think that her take away at

1365
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 3: the end of the movie being like, you should be happy,

1366
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 3: you should be satisfied with what you have.

1367
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 4: Merry Christmas is like.

1368
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 3: A little bit grim And just the fact that there's

1369
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 3: so many talented black women in this movie and we

1370
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 3: don't really get to see them be around each other,

1371
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 3: which again, like especially at the lack of Loretta Divine

1372
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 3: in Whitney Houston the year after Waiting to Exhale, it

1373
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 3: just boggles the mind.

1374
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 4: But there's a lot that this movie has going for.

1375
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 3: It that is like extremely like a step forward in

1376
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 3: the Christmas movie genre at all. Having a huge movie

1377
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 3: center and all black cast, I think, especially at this

1378
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 3: point in time, was like really cool, especially because Denzel

1379
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 3: Washington was so integral in making it happen and having

1380
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 3: his production company involved.

1381
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 4: This movie is directed by a woman. You don't see

1382
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 4: that very often still Yep.

1383
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 3: Granted, Penny Marshall is obviously a white women, but you

1384
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:05,520
Speaker 3: still you don't see women directing big budget movies frequently

1385
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 3: at now and so, and also I'm maybe sliding up

1386
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 3: the rating a little bit because Whitney Houston wasn't in

1387
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,840
Speaker 3: many movies, and I treasure each and every one of them,

1388
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 3: even though Brandy Cinderella is still the best hole.

1389
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 6: Dam I was just gonna say, we watched that this weekend.

1390
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 4: I feel like that has the energy of a holiday movie.

1391
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's so good.

1392
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:36,240
Speaker 4: So I'm going to give this three nipples.

1393
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 3: I'm going to give one to Whitney, I will give

1394
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 3: one to Jennifer Luke. No, I'm going to give one

1395
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,639
Speaker 3: to Lara Divine, and then I'm going to give the

1396
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 3: last one to Sissy Houston, Whitney's mom.

1397
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:53,040
Speaker 9: Nice, Nice, Okay, I can go. I'm going to go

1398
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,559
Speaker 9: right in the middle. Give it two and a half nimmals.

1399
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 9: I think, yeah, similar to what you just said, Jamie.

1400
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,959
Speaker 9: It just feels like such a regression post Waiting to Exhale,

1401
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:08,719
Speaker 9: which was such a powerful movie for women, for black women.

1402
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 9: To see Whitney and Loretta in particular being so underutilized

1403
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 9: when we know their potential.

1404
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:18,640
Speaker 5: Was probably the.

1405
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:20,480
Speaker 6: Most disappointing element of the movie.

1406
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:24,679
Speaker 9: I will give a nipple to just a collective nipple

1407
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 9: for like the great cast of beautiful, powerful black women,

1408
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 9: again sadly underutilized, but just so appreciate their presence. Just

1409
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 9: being iconic and just being in this movie altogether is

1410
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 9: really special. I'd give one, definitely to Whitney for providing

1411
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 9: us this amazing album that we are all still bumping

1412
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 9: every Christmas one probably so the end of time. And

1413
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 9: then I'll give my half two. Oh, I guess I

1414
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 9: gave one to Whinny al ready. But I was gonna

1415
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 9: say for Julia's character getting to have even just a

1416
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 9: tiny dense el valliance and take back a little bit

1417
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 9: of power, even if it was just a smidge, I'm

1418
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:06,640
Speaker 9: gonna give it to her.

1419
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 4: Light a light they're doing.

1420
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 2: In the ice skating scene, they're like they onto each other.

1421
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 6: And yeah, it's nice, Yeah it's nice. I shout out

1422
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 6: to her for that.

1423
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:23,839
Speaker 7: But I'm gonna give three nipples. I agree with everything

1424
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 7: that you guys said, but I do think that there

1425
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 7: is a world where we could remake this film where

1426
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 7: the gospel choir goes to the McDonald's gospel fest and

1427
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:36,839
Speaker 7: wins a million dollars and that's how they save the

1428
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 7: building the church, and we can get Hamilton out of here,

1429
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 7: and we could just get the character out of here,

1430
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 7: and we can just make Whitney be the savior of

1431
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 7: the church for her father and for her husband. She

1432
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 7: could be like, y'all can't live without me, bam, I

1433
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:57,640
Speaker 7: think we should make another one.

1434
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 9: We could do that, Yeah, like you keep all the

1435
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:06,879
Speaker 9: choir and the dance team.

1436
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:10,559
Speaker 6: Yes, be so good.

1437
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 7: So the fact that there's room for that, I love it.

1438
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 7: I'm going to give one nipple to Whitney. I'm gonna

1439
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 7: give one to Penny Marshall because as she is a

1440
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 7: white woman working on a black film, there haven't been

1441
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:25,600
Speaker 7: many white directors working with black production companies. So I

1442
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 7: applaud her for that and I'm sure she had to

1443
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 7: do a lot of research and it shows.

1444
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 6: So thank you, Pammy.

1445
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 7: And then I'm going to give one to Loretta Divine

1446
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 7: for being the best, Yes, the best.

1447
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,759
Speaker 2: Well, Natasha and Justine, thank you so much for joining

1448
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 2: us for this wonderful discussion and come back anytime. Oh

1449
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 2: my god son, where can people check out your podcast?

1450
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 2: Tell us more about it? How do people follow you online?

1451
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 2: Et cetera.

1452
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 9: Yeah, So we're two black girls, one Rose. You can

1453
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:04,879
Speaker 9: find us everywhere podcasts are found. We primarily cover reality

1454
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:11,080
Speaker 9: dating shows. We are currently covering the real Housewives of Potomac, which.

1455
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 5: Is a good mess.

1456
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 6: It's really deep dive into female friendship.

1457
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 7: It was gonna say it's very feminist of all the

1458
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 7: Housewives franchises.

1459
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, so a little bit of dating and relationships and marriage,

1460
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 9: but we're definitely deep diving into just like sisterhood and

1461
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:29,680
Speaker 9: themes of female friendship. We've been covering The Bachelor for

1462
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 9: the past six years. We currently wrapping up Golden Bachelor

1463
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:36,759
Speaker 9: and Bachelor in Paradise, which we do in our Patreon, Patreon,

1464
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 9: dot com slash Two Black Girls, One Rose for all

1465
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 9: all our video and special bonus content, and yeah, find

1466
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 9: us on all social media platforms.

1467
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 5: Two Black Girls, One Rose amazing.

1468
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,880
Speaker 2: Have you, either for the show or just in your

1469
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 2: personal lives watch the dating show Naked Attraction.

1470
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 6: No, I can't with the de robing dating shows that

1471
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 6: the sibling in.

1472
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 4: The line needs to be drawn something.

1473
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying.

1474
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:05,680
Speaker 2: It's my new obsession I love.

1475
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 9: Oh my god, I need to give it as it's

1476
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 9: a UK Yeah, where people get naked and you see everything.

1477
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 2: They're not blurring things out. There's lots you're seeing. All

1478
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:20,599
Speaker 2: you're seeing dicks, all you're seeing.

1479
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 4: Oh my god, all you're saying, but I was.

1480
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:27,040
Speaker 2: Like, no, it's on HBO.

1481
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 9: Oh okay, he's getting recommended.

1482
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:32,480
Speaker 6: I'm a fan, he's getting recommended.

1483
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 5: He's getting recommended. Like, you don't watch that one. No,

1484
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 5: I've been actually avoiding it.

1485
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 4: Everyone not die of exposure.

1486
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:44,240
Speaker 2: That's like, yeah, I mean they're indoors, so it's I'm

1487
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 2: sure it's warm in any case. Thank you again so

1488
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 2: much for being here as our guests. You can follow

1489
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 2: us on Instagram mostly these days. At Bechtel Cast. You

1490
01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 2: can subscribe to our patreons Matreon at patreon dot com

1491
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 2: slash spectrol Cast. You get two bonus episodes every month,

1492
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 2: plus access to the entire back catalog, all for five

1493
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 2: dollars a month.

1494
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 3: And you can get our merch over at teapublic dot

1495
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:17,400
Speaker 3: com slash the Bechdel Cast. And with that, let's let

1496
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 3: Denzel Washington men in black style, wide bar brains and

1497
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 3: go about our Christmas with our lives completely unchanged.

1498
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 4: Did he even do a good job?

1499
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:34,120
Speaker 2: We don't know, or was he just horny? We'll never know?

1500
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 6: All right, Bye bye.

1501
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1502
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 2: Caitlin Dorante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1503
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:51,639
Speaker 2: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1504
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:56,120
Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch

1505
01:23:56,280 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 2: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1506
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:03,639
Speaker 2: Aristotle US. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1507
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 2: Linktree Slash Bechtelcast