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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're reminding

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Speaker 1: WNBA fans to please keep their dildos to themselves. No judgment, folks,

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Speaker 1: just keep it off the court. It's Thursday, July thirty first,

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Speaker 1: and on today's show, we'll be talking with New York

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Speaker 1: Times best selling author and two time Olympian Kara Goucher

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Speaker 1: about why she felt compelled to write her book The

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Speaker 1: Longest Race Inside the Secret world of abuse, doping and

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Speaker 1: deception on Nike's Elite Running Team. We also talk about

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Speaker 1: the upcoming USA Track and Field Outdoor Championships and her

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Speaker 1: reaction to marathon world record holder Ruth Chepineditch getting suspended

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Speaker 1: for doping, plus the LPGA's Elite hit the Links In

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Speaker 1: the UK, two beloved players from different sports are back

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Speaker 1: in action and one WNBA arena gets a Neon Green surprise.

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Speaker 1: It's all coming up right after this welcome back slices.

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Speaker 1: Here's what you need to know in track and field.

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Speaker 1: The twenty twenty five USA Track and Field Outdoor and

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Speaker 1: Para National Championships get underway today at Hayward Field in Eugene, Oregon, YEP.

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Speaker 1: That's right, the Para National Championships and outdoor Championships are

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Speaker 1: combined this year for the first time ever. The nation's

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Speaker 1: top athletes will compete today through Sunday live on NBC Sports,

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Speaker 1: Peacock and USATF dot Tv Shkerrie Richardson, Sidney McLaughlin, Lavrony,

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Speaker 1: Gabby Thomas, Tara Davis, Woodhall and Moore. And once the

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Speaker 1: week is over, we'll have a new batch of national

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Speaker 1: champions and we'll know which athletes are going to represent

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Speaker 1: Team USA in a few months in Tokyo at the

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Speaker 1: World Athletics Championships. We'll link to the full national championship

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Speaker 1: schedule in our show Notes to the Diamond. The inaugural

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Speaker 1: AUSL season came to a close last week with the

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Speaker 1: Talons claiming the first ever AUSL Championship, and now it's

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Speaker 1: time for the All Star Cup and the Draft. Tonight,

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Speaker 1: captains Alisha Ocazio, Lexi Kilfoyle, Amanda Lorenz and Georgina Cork

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Speaker 1: will select their squads for the first series, which is

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Speaker 1: set to begin on Saturday. A reminder, the All Star

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Speaker 1: Cup is a four week competition to crown the ultimate

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Speaker 1: individual softball champion. It's the same format as the old

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Speaker 1: Athletes unlimited pro softball. The pool of sixty players is

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Speaker 1: split into four teams, and each player gets leaderboard points

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Speaker 1: for both team and individual play, and the top four

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Speaker 1: players on the leader board will serve as team captains

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Speaker 1: and draft their new teams each week. The competition runs

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Speaker 1: through August thirty first, and will make stops in Greenville,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, Holly Springs, North Carolina, and Rosemont, Illinois. We'll

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Speaker 1: link to the Cup schedule and tickets in our show

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Speaker 1: notes in Golf News. The opening round of the AIG

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Speaker 1: Women's Open is today. The best of the best are

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Speaker 1: all congregated at Royal Porthcull Golf Club in Wales for

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Speaker 1: four days of championship competition. Lydia Coe won the Open

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Speaker 1: last year and enters this year's contest ranked number three

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Speaker 1: in the world. The top golfer will take home one million,

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Speaker 1: four hundred sixty two thousand, five hundred dollars when it's

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Speaker 1: all said and done, the highest amount in the AIG

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Speaker 1: Women's opens forty nine year history. Tune into the action

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Speaker 1: on USA Network today from seven am to two pm

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Speaker 1: Eastern or streaming live on nbcsports dot Com and the

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Speaker 1: NBC Sports app. We'll link to the full broadcast and

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Speaker 1: streaming schedule in our show notes. In WNBA news, Cambrink

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Speaker 1: is back baby, after a thirteen month absence recovering from

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Speaker 1: acl and meniscus tears. The former Stanford Star and second

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Speaker 1: year player with the La Sparks hit the court on

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Speaker 1: Tuesday night. She was still on a minute's restriction, but

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Speaker 1: she registered five points, three rebounds, one steal, and one

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Speaker 1: block in about fourteen minutes on the floor in her

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Speaker 1: team's eighty nine seventy four loss to the Las Vegas Aces.

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Speaker 1: Brink's first shot also a make all net from three.

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Speaker 1: Gotta love it. It wasn't a lot of time, but

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Speaker 1: the little glimpses of greatness that we saw reminded us

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Speaker 1: why Brink was the number two overall pick in the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four draft. So glad to see her back

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Speaker 1: out there now. While bring was settling in Asia, Wilson

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Speaker 1: was going off a dominant performance for the Ace of

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Speaker 1: Superstar in the win. The three time league MVP posted

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Speaker 1: thirty four points, half of which came in the first quarter,

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Speaker 1: and added ten rebounds. Wilson's teammate Jackie Young notched her

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Speaker 1: first career triple double in the victory with eighteen points,

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Speaker 1: eleven rebounds, and ten assists. More WNBA, my Chicago Sky

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Speaker 1: are hurt and y'all in the standings and literally the

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Speaker 1: team got down to as few as eight available players

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Speaker 1: over the weekend and with very few options at point guard,

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Speaker 1: They've signed to sevegy Uzen to a rest of season deal.

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Speaker 1: The Turkish player and former euro League champions started the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season with the Phoenix Mercury, but was

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Speaker 1: waived on June second. To make space for Uzen. The

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Speaker 1: Sky waved eight year vet Mariah Jefferson. Now the Sky

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Speaker 1: is still without the services of score Ariel Atkins, backup

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Speaker 1: point guard Haley Benlet, and fan favorite Courtney Vanderslute, who's

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Speaker 1: out for the season with an ACL tear off the court.

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Speaker 1: We've got a conclusion to an upsetting story we first

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Speaker 1: told you about months ago. On Monday, a fifty five

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Speaker 1: year old Denton, Texas man named Michael Lewis was sentenced

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Speaker 1: to two and a half years in prison for stalking

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Speaker 1: and harassing twenty three year old Indiana Fever guard Caitlin Clark.

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Speaker 1: Now Lewis was arrested back on January twelfth, with authorities

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Speaker 1: alleging that he sent hundreds of threats and sexually explicit

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Speaker 1: messages to Clark on X. The FBI tracked the IP

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Speaker 1: addresses of Lewis's messages to a hotel in downtown Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: as well as the Indianapolis Public Library. He pleaded guilty

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Speaker 1: to one felonycount of stocking and one misdemeanor counter harassment,

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Speaker 1: and in addition to the prison time, was ordered to

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Speaker 1: stay away from Gainbridge field House, hanklefield House, Fever events,

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Speaker 1: and Indiana Pacers organization events, as well as to have

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Speaker 1: no contact with Clark. Lewis also will not be allowed

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Speaker 1: internet access during his sentence. Finally, in NWSL Happenings, friend

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Speaker 1: of the Show and Angel City FC veteran defender Ali

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Speaker 1: Riley has been removed from the season ending injury list.

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Speaker 1: The team announced the change via a press release on Tuesday. Riley,

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Speaker 1: a fan faise and team captain for ACFC, was initially

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Speaker 1: moved to the list because of a chronic and persistent

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Speaker 1: leg injury midway through last season. In a team statement,

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Speaker 1: Riley spoke about the elation of this moment, saying quote,

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Speaker 1: this could easily have been a career ending injury, and

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Speaker 1: nobody could tell me for sure that it wasn't. So

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Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed with joy at reaching this milestone. While I'm

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Speaker 1: really proud of myself for not giving up, I'm even

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Speaker 1: more grateful for all the medical professionals who never gave

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Speaker 1: up on me, and my teammates for supporting me when

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Speaker 1: I didn't know if I would ever kick a ball again.

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Speaker 1: I was out for a long time, so I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: have to work really hard to wear the jersey again,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to give it everything I've got, and

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Speaker 1: with these players by my side, I have to believe

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Speaker 1: that anything is possible. End quote. We hate injuries, but

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Speaker 1: we do love watching players come back. It's always so sweet.

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Speaker 1: So welcome back ally. All right, slices, it's time for

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Speaker 1: a brand new segment called Are you Seeing what I'm seeing?

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Speaker 1: My God? I believe this is I heard talking about

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Speaker 1: Meish Alex. Get in here. We got some tea to

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Speaker 1: spill today, and it's of the hoops and straight shit variety.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: Okay, give it a chance, that'd be good. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: there have been rumors circulating on social media that Chicago

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Speaker 1: Sky Star Angel Reese and Wendell Carter Junior of the

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Speaker 1: mnba's Orlando Magic have been dating, and on Tuesday, when

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Speaker 1: the Sky were warming up to play the Washington Mystics,

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Speaker 1: folks tuned into the game and noticed something around Reese's neck,

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Speaker 1: a necklace with the initials w c J Wendell Carter Junior.

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Speaker 1: Okay now recent Carter have not confirmed their relationship publicly,

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Speaker 1: but she was spotted at a couple Magic games last season.

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Speaker 1: He was in attendance at her birthday party in May,

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Speaker 1: and the two were spotted together on the court at

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Speaker 1: the MNBA All Star Game, and he.

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Speaker 3: Was wearing a shirt with her face on it at

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Speaker 3: All Star.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, now Angels having fun with the rumors. After

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Speaker 1: a fan posted about her necklace, she reposted another user response,

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Speaker 1: women can't even wear necklaces that stand for wisdom, courage,

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Speaker 1: and joy anymore. Snort. I mean, it's no asy fudd

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Speaker 1: showing up to a Wings game wearing a shirt that

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Speaker 1: says I heart PEB number five.

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Speaker 3: I love peanut butter too.

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Speaker 1: We all love peanut butter, but I like this. I

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Speaker 1: like the little hints that we're getting, Like, I think

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Speaker 1: this is way more fun than when two people just

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Speaker 1: like post a picture together at something and they're like,

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Speaker 1: we together, like scavenger hunt if you will. I like that.

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Speaker 2: Asia Wilson has set the tone. She and her MNBA

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Speaker 2: bo I love it. Keep it going straight people.

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Speaker 3: So I do have to say, and yeah, this is

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Speaker 3: not saying anything bad about hoops and straight shit, but

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Speaker 3: I pay so little attention to men's sports that this

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Speaker 3: man means nothing to me, Like literally no idea who

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Speaker 3: he is?

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Speaker 4: Is he good?

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Speaker 1: You know he's in the NBA, so yes, that takes

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Speaker 1: a bit of work. He averaged about nine points a

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Speaker 1: game last year. He ain't He's no Angel Rees. And

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Speaker 1: you know what, I have to agree with you, Alex.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time, I'm much more excited about hoops

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Speaker 1: and gay shit. Right, I'm like, oh, I know both

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Speaker 1: those people, and that's more exciting than like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that guy's probably know. Is this gonna last? Oh?

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Speaker 1: All right, miss clearly upset about spending this much time

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Speaker 1: on straight shit. We gotta take a break. When we

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Speaker 1: come back, we're kicking it with Carra Goucher.

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Speaker 3: Be right back.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Max Slices. Now, before we jump into this interview,

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Speaker 1: I just want to let you know that this conversation

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Speaker 1: does include a really brief discussion of sexual abuse and harassment. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's my conversation with Kara joining us now. She's a

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Speaker 1: three time NCAA champion, two time Olympian, a podium finisher

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Speaker 1: at the Boston and New York Marathons, and the New

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Speaker 1: York Times best selling author of The Longest Race in

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Speaker 1: the Secret World of Abuse, doping and Deception. On Nike's

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Speaker 1: Elite Running team, she co hosts the running commentary podcast

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Speaker 1: Nobody Asked Us with fellow distance runner Des Linden, and

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Speaker 1: she's done a lot of announcer and analyst work, including

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Speaker 1: working as the lead distance analyst for NBC covering things

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Speaker 1: like major marathons and the Olympics. She's a proud Minnesotan

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Speaker 1: who somehow convinced her kid to make a dance video

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Speaker 1: to old people music aka bel Bivdebo. It's Cara Goucher.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Kara, Hi Sarah, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm so excited to have you on. You're

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Speaker 1: just a legend of the game, and not just as

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Speaker 1: a great, fantastic athlete, but as someone who speaks up

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Speaker 1: about things and has good opinions, So we're going to

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Speaker 1: get some of those before we get into the current

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Speaker 1: happenings in the world of track and the upcoming outdoor

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Speaker 1: national Championships. I want to talk about your book and

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Speaker 1: why you wanted to open up about major issues in

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Speaker 1: your life and in the sport of track and field.

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Speaker 1: Why was the time right and why did you feel

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Speaker 1: like you needed to get it out.

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Speaker 5: I think the time was right just because I had

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Speaker 5: sort of stepped away from competitive running so I could

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Speaker 5: actually sort of deal with some of the stuff I

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Speaker 5: had gone through. And I just started to feel, honestly

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Speaker 5: like if I didn't share my story, it was just

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Speaker 5: going to repeat and happen to someone else. And then

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Speaker 5: I felt the responsibility that maybe I could do something

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Speaker 5: about that and I could protect the future generation. So

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Speaker 5: it just felt like the timing was right, and I

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Speaker 5: was nervous about it and it was terrifying, but I

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Speaker 5: feel really relieved.

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Speaker 1: That I did it. Yeah, I think reflection can change

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Speaker 1: how we see things. In fact, you have an Instagram

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Speaker 1: post that's pinned that I love from just a few

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Speaker 1: years ago. Your son urged you to get the Olympic

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Speaker 1: Rings tattoo that so many Olympians get that. I would

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Speaker 1: have if I was allowed to, even though I'm not

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Speaker 1: an Olympian, because it's the coolest thing ever. Can you

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Speaker 1: share why you didn't get it initially and how your

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Speaker 1: son actually helped you to see yourself differently?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think the first Olympic team I made was in

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Speaker 5: two thousand and eight and I was coming off a

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Speaker 5: World Championship where I had meddled, so I was expected

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Speaker 5: to meddle at the Olympics and I didn't, and I

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Speaker 5: felt like I just let everybody down. I felt like

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Speaker 5: let my team down, my family down, my country down.

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Speaker 5: So I didn't feel like I earned the tattoo that.

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Speaker 5: In twenty twelve, I was sort of coming back from

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Speaker 5: having given birth to my son, and while I ran solidly,

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Speaker 5: I didn't again I didn't meddle, and I felt like, well,

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Speaker 5: maybe in twenty sixteen, when I really do something, then

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Speaker 5: I'll have earned it. And then I didn't make the

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Speaker 5: team in twenty sixteen. I missed it by a spot.

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Speaker 5: So all those years went by and I just thought, well,

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Speaker 5: I'll just never get it, and my son started to

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Speaker 5: really say, Mom.

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Speaker 4: You should get it, you should get it, you should be.

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Speaker 5: Proud you met your goal becoming an Olympian, and he,

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Speaker 5: I mean honestly, like this little kid talked me into

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Speaker 5: going and many many years later going and getting my

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Speaker 5: Olympick rings tattoo.

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Speaker 1: I love that. I was listening to a podcast the

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Speaker 1: other day and they described female friends as the kinder

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Speaker 1: and more realistic mirror that we need because we're never

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Speaker 1: going to see ourselves in the way everybody else sees us.

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Speaker 1: Our friends see us who think we're beautiful and kind

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Speaker 1: and fun and funny and wonderful and smart, and we're

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Speaker 1: so hard on ourselves that you need those people. And

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Speaker 1: it sounds like your son was like really seeing you,

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Speaker 1: like like a multi time olympian, like you've earned it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I mean it was seriously fifteen years after I made

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Speaker 5: the Olympic team that I got it. But I love

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Speaker 5: it now and I'm really proud to have it. And

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Speaker 5: he has helped me see, like, look at my past differently.

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Speaker 5: I always did the best I could. I showed up

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Speaker 5: the best I could, and he's really helped me see

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Speaker 5: that and healed me quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: Reparenting ourselves by parenting our children is a very common

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Speaker 1: theme among people of a certain age, for sure. You

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Speaker 1: touch on a lot of tough topics in the book,

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Speaker 1: from pay inequity, to verbal and sexual abuse, the pressure

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Speaker 1: to use performance enhancing substances, to how female athletes are

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Speaker 1: misrepresented in the media. Which topic of all the things

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Speaker 1: that you wrote about in your book scared you the

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Speaker 1: most to get brutally honest and go public about.

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Speaker 5: Uh, definitely the sexual abuse. I think, you know, I

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Speaker 5: had kept it a secret for so long, and I

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Speaker 5: felt like there were so many people that were going

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Speaker 5: to say exactly what ended up happening was that I

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Speaker 5: made it up, and I'm a liar, and I'm vindictive

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Speaker 5: and all those types of things. And I think when

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Speaker 5: you're abused in a situation like that, I was an

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Speaker 5: adult and I wasn't fresh out of college. I was married,

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Speaker 5: he's a part of husband, and to find yourself in

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Speaker 5: a situation where that happens, there's a lot of embarrassment

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Speaker 5: and shame that goes along with it. And so that

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Speaker 5: definitely was the thing that I kept putting in the

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Speaker 5: book and then taking out and putting it back in

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Speaker 5: and taking it out.

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Speaker 1: It's so necessary to talk about, though, because so many women,

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Speaker 1: in particular do feel shame about incidents like that, even

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Speaker 1: if it is not in any way their fault, and

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Speaker 1: it's a second victimization that we do to ourselves, wondering

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Speaker 1: why we didn't make different decisions in those moments of harassment, abuse,

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Speaker 1: or otherwise. This was your coach, Alberto Salazar, legendary name

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Speaker 1: in the sport. He worked with the Nike Oregon Project,

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Speaker 1: an elite Nike sponsored professional training team. You started out

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Speaker 1: accusing him in twenty fifteen publicly of skirting anti doping

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Speaker 1: rules with the runners on that team, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until you testified later twenty eighteen to twenty twenty one

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Speaker 1: talking about not just the doping accusations, but also that

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Speaker 1: sexual and emotional abuse that you suffered at his hands.

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Speaker 1: What did your family think? How did you tell them

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Speaker 1: about that? Because, like you said, you were in a

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Speaker 1: family unit when this was happening, and it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: you had the courage to speak up publicly about them

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Speaker 1: that you also had to acknowledge that your family would

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Speaker 1: hear about it and it would be talked about publicly.

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Speaker 1: How'd you handle that?

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Speaker 4: It was really hard?

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Speaker 5: You know, there was things I had just kept from

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Speaker 5: my family and thinking back, it was a way of

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Speaker 5: me trying to protect them. They were so supportive of

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Speaker 5: everything I did. They were so supportive when I spoke

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Speaker 5: out about the doping stuff and when I spoke out

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Speaker 5: about things that I thought were unjust. And then again,

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Speaker 5: like you said, there's this revictimization, a lot of guilt

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Speaker 5: that I hadn't told them everything that had happened. But

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Speaker 5: when I was going through the actually the doping hearings,

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Speaker 5: that's when it was discovered, when I admitted to the

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Speaker 5: sexual abuse, that it had to be reported to save sport.

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Speaker 5: And it kind of, you know, I felt again like

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Speaker 5: my stories being told by other people. Now I'm losing

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Speaker 5: you know, I'm not I don't even get to tell

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Speaker 5: my family potentially that I was sexually assaulted, like they're

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Speaker 5: going to read about it. And so that's when I

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Speaker 5: finally told my family, and it was really hard, a

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Speaker 5: lot of tears, but I will say it was they

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Speaker 5: were so supportive, to be totally honest, no one seemed

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Speaker 5: incredibly surprised. And you know, my mom has always just

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Speaker 5: been such a champion of like, you know, I had

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Speaker 5: told them before that he had come on to me,

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Speaker 5: but I had never told them about the abuse, and

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Speaker 5: my mom even then was like, this is on him,

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Speaker 5: don't take any of his shame. He's the one that

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Speaker 5: fit should feel it. And they all, you know, I

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Speaker 5: have two sisters and a mom, and they really circled

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Speaker 5: me again and helped me a lot through that.

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Speaker 1: He ended up getting a lifetime ban from coaching USA

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Speaker 1: Track and Field athletics in part because of your bravery.

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Speaker 1: I have to tell you I had an incident with

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Speaker 1: someone who had sectually harassed me, and I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be set up to work with him again, and

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Speaker 1: I went and told my boss that I wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: comfortable going to this event if you would be there

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Speaker 1: not realizing the same thing. It would trigger an automatic

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Speaker 1: reporting to the company that I worked at, and then

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Speaker 1: I'd have to deal with it. And I told them

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Speaker 1: I don't really want to do anything about this because

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Speaker 1: I'm just starting and I'm going to get screwed in

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Speaker 1: this to be the one that I get something attached

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Speaker 1: to my name that I'm a problem, or I lie,

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Speaker 1: or I cause issues because he was very high up,

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Speaker 1: and I still feel guilty that I haven't like publicly

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Speaker 1: called him out even now when I have the agency

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Speaker 1: to do so, because who knows if he's harassing other

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Speaker 1: people at a different place, in a different time in

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Speaker 1: his career. But there is still such a feeling of like,

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Speaker 1: if you say something, that's going to be a part

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Speaker 1: of your story and it's not my choice. I didn't

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Speaker 1: choose that he would do that. So I just want

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Speaker 1: to say again, like, how powerful it is that you

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Speaker 1: spoke about it and saved a lot of people from

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Speaker 1: having that same thing happened to them, and did get

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Speaker 1: something very meaningful accomplished as a result of you being

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Speaker 1: willing to speak out.

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Speaker 5: I just want to say to you, everybody's on their

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Speaker 5: own timeline and everybody heals differently, and it's not your

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Speaker 5: responsibility to it. Really, isn't your responsibility to make this

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Speaker 5: hold this person accountable. I just got to a point

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Speaker 5: where I knew that other people were potentially in danger,

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Speaker 5: and then I felt like, oh god, now that does

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Speaker 5: feel sticky. I felt like my nieces are really good athletes.

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Speaker 5: I could see them ending up in a situation like this,

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Speaker 5: But everybody heals differently and it takes time and there

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Speaker 5: is no right or wrong way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you spoke up again in twenty nineteen, you joined

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Speaker 1: fellow former Nike teammates in a New York Times op

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Speaker 1: ed to criticize the company's handling a female athletes during

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Speaker 1: it after their pregnancy. There's so many risks involved with

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Speaker 1: all the different ways you wanted to speak out from

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Speaker 1: within the sport about the sport. Any regrets or did

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Speaker 1: it give you permission in the rest of your life

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Speaker 1: to say, Okay, here's what I'm allowing, here's what I'm not.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I really don't have any regrets. I think

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Speaker 5: there were times where I thought, Oh, everyone's just going

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Speaker 5: to see me as this complainer, and I do get

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Speaker 5: labeled that way, But I think I was able to

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Speaker 5: weather that storm and now come out the other side.

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Speaker 5: And I don't think that if I had, if I

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Speaker 5: hadn't shared all the things I had gone through, I

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Speaker 5: wouldn't be able to love the sport the way I

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Speaker 5: still love it. I wouldn't be able to be involved

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Speaker 5: the way I'm involved, because there's just too much pain

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Speaker 5: behind the scenes and honestly, just too much fear of

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Speaker 5: the big players involved. And so it would have been

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Speaker 5: easier to just stay quiet and sort of disappear from it.

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Speaker 5: But then I felt like they're still winning. I don't

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Speaker 5: even get to be involved in the sport I love,

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Speaker 5: so I don't have any regrets.

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Speaker 4: It was always harder than I thought it.

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Speaker 5: Was gonna be. I'm like an eternal optimist, and every

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Speaker 5: stuff was harder than I thought it was going to be,

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Speaker 5: every step of the way. But you know, it's so freeing, Sarah.

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Speaker 5: I just am who I am. I'm not gonna hold

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Speaker 5: anything back. I'm gonna say what I think is right

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Speaker 5: or wrong, and it's super freeing to be on this side.

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Speaker 1: It is. When I started out in my career and

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Speaker 1: I spoke out about stuff, I hated being called like

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Speaker 1: a nag or like you must be fund at parties,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, great, I am, I'm actually like a

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Speaker 1: party party. Yeah yeah, Like I'm like, I'm a really

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Speaker 1: happy person. I think everything's awesome. But also I think

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Speaker 1: it's bullshit when we don't call out inequities and things

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Speaker 1: that are wrong. And so eventually I just had to

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Speaker 1: be like the people who are gonna say I'm not

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Speaker 1: fun at party, or I'm anag or whatever, I'm a complainer.

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Speaker 1: They are people who want to just abide by the

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Speaker 1: status quo because it's serving them and if I disrupt

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Speaker 1: that for them, yeah, it's nicely on the other side.

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Speaker 1: To your point, you continue to give opinions on your podcast,

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Speaker 1: which is called Nobody Asked Us. You and your co

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Speaker 1: hosts London. You hosted your first elite racing event this

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Speaker 1: past May called Save the ten thousand with dezen Kara.

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Speaker 1: Why did it need saving and how did the event go?

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Speaker 4: That's a great question.

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Speaker 5: So one of the the things as the Olympic evolves,

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Speaker 5: they talk about removing events, and the ten thousand is

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Speaker 5: an event that's constantly talked about being removed. It is

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Speaker 5: a long race, it's twenty five laps on the track,

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Speaker 5: and unless it's told correctly, it can be boring if

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Speaker 5: you don't understand what you're watching. But the ten thousand

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Speaker 5: is the event in which put me on the map

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Speaker 5: and gave me so much opportunity. So it is near

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Speaker 5: and dear to my heart. And this past summer at

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Speaker 5: the Paris Olympic, Scrant Fisher from the United States won

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Speaker 5: a bronze medal and it got a lot of hype

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Speaker 5: and it got attention from JJ Watt like people who

432
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 5: are not track and field enthusiasts, and certainly not distance enthusiasts.

433
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 5: But we still see even this year, we see opportunities

434
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 5: made less and less than the ten thousand, and there's

435
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 5: really only a couple ten thousands, and you have to

436
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 5: race a ten thousand, you know, to even qualify for

437
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 5: the World champs.

438
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 4: You have to race it.

439
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 5: You have to run a certain time or get enough points.

440
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 5: And for a lot of athletes in the world, there

441
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 5: aren't enough opportunities anymore. And so Desna, you know, we've

442
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 5: had some good fortune with our podcast, it's been good

443
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 5: for us. We thought, what if we actually did something

444
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 5: that was tangible and helped other athletes. I will say

445
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 5: again eternal optimist. It was way harder to get off

446
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:33,439
Speaker 5: the ground.

447
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 4: I thought.

448
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 5: I just thought everyone would sign off on it and

449
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 5: it would be great because we're giving an opportunity. I

450
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 5: thought athletes would flock to it and ended up being

451
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 5: quite small fields. But you know, they got points. They

452
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 5: all walked away with no one got less than a

453
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 5: thousand dollars, which in distance runniness a lot. You know,

454
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 5: we gave way forty four thousand dollars in prize money

455
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 5: that we raised through sponsors and through hey had a

456
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 5: virtual race to raise money, and so it was great

457
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 5: and we'll do it again next year and hope the

458
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 5: fields will just get deeper and deeper.

459
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: I want you to save the ten thousand. I also

460
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: always say, when I'm watching it, being like a short

461
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,679
Speaker 1: distance I was a caathlete, I'm always like, if you

462
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: can run a commercial in the middle of my race,

463
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: I'm not running. That race is too long. I know

464
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: it is able to run a commercial while I'm competing

465
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: and come back and be like still at it. But

466
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: I love that you did that, and it is so important.

467
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: I think so many people in the podcasting and like

468
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: media world are starting to understand how to break through

469
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: the fourth wall and create some stuff in the world

470
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: to help change the game. Tell me about your focal

471
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: dystonia diagnosis. This happened in twenty twenty two. Because I

472
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 1: know you are still such a part of the running

473
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: world and you still run a lot. How are you

474
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: adjusting to life where running isn't automatic? It isn't easy

475
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: every time you do it.

476
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 4: It's been really hard.

477
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 5: I have to say, of all the things that I

478
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 5: couldn't diagnosed with, this feels like the meanest thing because

479
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 5: I love running so much. And I have since I

480
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 5: was a kid. I'm forty seven and I've been running

481
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 5: since i was six, and so just feel super cruel.

482
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 5: But I have this repetitive movement to stonia, so I

483
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 5: can't feel. I have no control over my lower left

484
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 5: leg when running, and there are times where it's not

485
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 5: that bad and I can go and run, and then

486
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 5: there are times where it's so bad that I have

487
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 5: no awareness, so I don't know that it's hit the ground,

488
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 5: and so I've fallen many times. Even though it landed,

489
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 5: I don't know that it landed, and so there will

490
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 5: be times where even it's hard for me to walk.

491
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 5: And I have had to have the cane before, and

492
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 5: so it's been really hard.

493
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 4: I have seen everybody about it. I have tried everything.

494
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 5: There isn't a lot in the research on this, and

495
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 5: so I'm really open minded about everything.

496
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 4: But I do get botox, which so basically.

497
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 5: Your brain sends a signal for everything to fire at

498
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 5: once instead of the muscles you actually need. So I

499
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 5: get botox quarterly, which is good and bad because it

500
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 5: cuts that signal from my brain. But it also I

501
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 5: don't have you know, fine motor control of it either,

502
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 5: so it's allowed me to run, not as much as

503
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 5: I would like. But you know, for instance, today was

504
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 5: dropping my son off at driver's that I've been driving

505
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 5: by this trail I love. I was like, I'm going

506
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 5: to go run four miles today, and I caught a

507
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 5: good day, so I ended up going eight. So I

508
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 5: really just try to be grateful on the days that

509
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 5: are good and take advantage of them, and on the

510
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 5: days that are bad, I try to remember it will

511
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 5: it will get better.

512
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really hard. I'm sorry you're dealing with that.

513
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: I have a number of post collegiate injuries that keep

514
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: me from running it all, even jogging, and I'm still

515
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: determined to keep like working my way back to it.

516
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: And it's funny how I'm sure you never felt this

517
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: way because you're one of those crazy distance people. But

518
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: every once in a while I would go out for

519
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: a jog and be like, h I don't want to

520
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: run today, And now it's like every day wake up

521
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I wish I could go for

522
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 1: a run. Like you really take it for granted when

523
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: everything is working right. So if you're listening to this

524
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: and you can just go for a jog with no problems.

525
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: Go do it, Go do it, keep doing it, keep

526
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: your body moving. I want to talk about Ruth Chepin

527
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: get it to set the marathon world record at the

528
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four Chicago Marathon in October before testing positive

529
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: for a band diuretic in a 'ur ine sample. That

530
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: was this March. She's been provisionally suspended. She could face

531
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: a two year band if she's found guilty of the

532
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: anti doping violation. And if she's found guilty, I'm wondering

533
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: what happens to her titles, her prize money, her records.

534
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,239
Speaker 5: To be honest with you, nothing happens unless something is

535
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 5: discovered in the investigation that we don't know about yet.

536
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 5: It's a diuretic which only carries, as you said, it

537
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 5: to your band maximum. And her world record has been ratified.

538
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 5: She was tested before and after that world record has

539
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 5: already been ratified.

540
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 4: All of her titles, her.

541
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 5: World Championship title from twenty nineteen, her three Chicago Marathon titles,

542
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 5: they have all also she has passed the doping control

543
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 5: for those races. So this is the unfortunate part about

544
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 5: doping bands is that they often don't change anything. I mean,

545
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 5: she could be eligible to compete in even less than

546
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 5: two years potentially because she's been it seems as though

547
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 5: she's been cooperating, so nothing changes. The world record is

548
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 5: still two to nine fifty six, and it's good that

549
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 5: that someone got caught. But again, she got caught for

550
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 5: a diuretic. She didn't get caught for a performance enhancing drug.

551
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 5: Now we know the diuretic was to hide that. That's

552
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 5: why that's why they're banned, because it masks it. It

553
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 5: increases your urinflow, and so when they tested, it's diluted.

554
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 5: But that's just the uncomfortableness of this, Like, she didn't

555
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 5: actually test positive for her performance enhancing drug, and it

556
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 5: changes nothing about her history. Everything stands.

557
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: So you said that she was tested before and after.

558
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how those diuretics work in terms of

559
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: masking what she might be taking. Is it possible she

560
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: was on whatever performance enhancing thing during that time and

561
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: was able to test through it and the diuretic just

562
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: didn't show up until later. Or would she likely have

563
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: been cleaned during that testing period and then later test

564
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: negative or positive for the diuretic?

565
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 4: What's most likely?

566
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 5: And I don't I don't want to necessarily say she

567
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 5: was doping before, because I don't actually know. I think,

568
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 5: you know, there's a lot of reasons to be suspicious

569
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 5: of the two nine fifty.

570
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: Six, But it was like two it's faster, right than.

571
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was two minutes faster than the existing world record.

572
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 5: It was a significant personal best for her, I think

573
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 5: a fourteen minute personal best. So I mean, it wasn't

574
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 5: like it wasn't like, you know, she had been knocking

575
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 5: on the wall, but we don't know. I'm sure she's

576
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 5: been drug tested. She's been one of the best runners

577
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 5: in the world for a long time. Unfortunately, what probably

578
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 5: happened is that she was never tested while while while glowing. Right,

579
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 5: these people are microdocene and this diuretic that was in

580
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 5: her system was extremely high, which says to me she

581
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 5: was trying to hide something. You know, she found out

582
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 5: she was going to get tested, and she knew that

583
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 5: there was a chance she was going to test positive,

584
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 5: so she took the.

585
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: Diuretic like two hundred times the normal mode or something.

586
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, so there is a small amount that's allowed

587
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 5: just in case of contamination, but yeah, it was one

588
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 5: hundred and ninety times the allowable limit. So This wasn't

589
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 5: like a oops, it was in my whatever, you know,

590
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 5: So it's really hard to know. I think there's a

591
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 5: lot of reasons to be suspicious of the results before,

592
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 5: but unfortunately she was passing tests before, so all of

593
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 5: her previous accomplishment stand.

594
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: It's so hard in this sport. We have had Alicia

595
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: Montano on our show who like twice has gotten a

596
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: medal like years after and like great, But I want

597
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: it in the moment when I just ran the race,

598
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: when I earned it. I don't want it because somebody

599
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: else was proven to have cheated later and then it

600
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: comes around to me being sent in the mail. I mean,

601
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: at least they're doing a little better with that awarding

602
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: them at Olympics. But you know, when you've when you've

603
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: got a world record that everyone kind of knows might

604
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: be a little bit tainted, do you discuss her previous

605
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: success differently? Does the next time someone gets near it

606
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: is their resentment in the sport that that person might

607
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: have actually broken it and done it fairly?

608
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that definitely happens. I mean this always

609
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 5: opens up a can of worms. What is the real

610
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 5: real world record? And where I get uncomfortable is that

611
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 5: it always goes back to an American or a white

612
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 5: European woman, And that's where I start to get uncomfortable, like, okay,

613
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 5: you know, like every buddy cheats but us, that's just

614
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 5: not true, you know, But that will be the conversation.

615
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 5: What is the world record? Is it the two eleven

616
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 5: fifty three or is it Sefonissan's two thirteen, or is

617
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 5: it the two fourteen or what is it? And unfortunately,

618
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 5: like that's just the world that track and field athletes

619
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 5: live in. I mean, we don't know. And right now

620
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 5: world records in American records and national records are in

621
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 5: free fall with shoe technology that was introduced in twenty nineteen,

622
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 5: and so it's really hard to know to parse out

623
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 5: what is like slightly new training and technology and what

624
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 5: is not right. And so I think, but this will

625
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 5: lead to those conversations. Yes, And the thing is, for

626
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 5: all of the anger around this, which I do understand,

627
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 5: the world record will still stand at two o nine

628
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 5: fifty six, And for all the people that believe that

629
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 5: wasn't possible, Well, what happens if in four year someone

630
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 5: does break that, you know what I mean?

631
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: So it is yeah, yeah, So if you get to

632
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: keep the prize money. I assume you don't keep it

633
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: if you test negative or test positive or something right

634
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: after right, that's the only time it has to be

635
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: within that small window, otherwise you keep it. Is it

636
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: an unavoidable reality then that runners will always be looking

637
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: for that little edge or work around or even just

638
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: blatant cheating if it means dropping time and making money.

639
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 5: I think that it is inevitable, yes, And I think

640
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 5: you have to also look at cultures. I mean, Ruth

641
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 5: is from Kenya, where money goes so far and it's

642
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 5: not just Ruth's right. So Ruth is now banned. We

643
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 5: know she's going to be banned, we don't know for

644
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 5: how long, but we know she's going to be banned.

645
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 5: But her coaches, her agents, her suppliers, they continue on.

646
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 5: So the system actually isn't changed. And I think you

647
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 5: have to sort of look at it somewhere like Kenya.

648
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 5: To run a world record, or to run or to

649
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 5: win a world marathon major, we're looking at generational wealth

650
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 5: and so many people are benefiting from that, so it's

651
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 5: really hard. I think in the US we have this

652
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 5: thing like, well, I want to run fast because I

653
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 5: want to do it for my country, or I want

654
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 5: to earn the money or this or that. But like,

655
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 5: the motivations are different in different places, and so I

656
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 5: think that doping is going to be a problem forever,

657
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 5: and not justin Kenny. I think here, and I mean we.

658
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: Saw with the Oregon project, we saw at the highest

659
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: level with Nike, where you have all the funding in

660
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: the world, right, Yeah, So.

661
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 5: I think it's just always going to be a battle unfortunately.

662
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, this might be a controversial question, but one of

663
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: the longest world records on the books is still the

664
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: late Florence Griffith Joiner's mark in the one hundred meters

665
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty eight. She also owns the two hundred

666
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: meter world record. With every year that goes by, those

667
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: marks feel either more impressive or more suspicious, depending on

668
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: how you view it. Do you have thoughts on that.

669
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 5: Well, sir, that's an extremely controversial question.

670
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: She was just like anything you have to say.

671
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 5: I will say this that I grew up worshiping flow Joe.

672
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 5: My name in French class was Flora Hans for Florence

673
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 5: scriviage amazing, and I had her sports illustrated pictures and

674
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 5: I loved her nails and everything. I think, knowing what

675
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 5: I know now, it is harder for me to believe

676
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 5: that that was done without any aid. But again, and

677
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 5: this is something that I think there's a larger conversation around.

678
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 5: You know, there were no positive tests around her. There is,

679
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 5: so it's sort of like you have to just take it.

680
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 5: And even though knowing what I know now, yeah, I

681
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 5: definitely think, Wow, that is pretty crazy that she ran

682
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 5: that fast on those surfaces and those spikes, and it

683
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 5: still stands. You know, I just think it's dangerous when

684
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: we get to this place where we just start accusing people.

685
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 5: And that's that's kind of what we saw with Ruth,

686
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 5: the way that people would just said, oh, she's doping,

687
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 5: And I just feel like, until there's the proof, it's uncomfortable.

688
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 4: But Flojo, of course is.

689
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 5: Like a hot button topic because we love her, we

690
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 5: worship her, but there is to be suspicious, yeah, and

691
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 5: some people are yeah.

692
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: And it would be hard to go back and litigate. Now,

693
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: let's talk about the now. US Track and Field. The

694
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: Outdoor Championships and Paranational Tchampionships are happening this week in Eugene, Oregon,

695
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: starting this Thursday, running through Sunday, you'll be covering the

696
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: event for NBC. So I want to start with just

697
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: a technical thing. The top three finishers in each individual

698
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: event who have also met the World Athletics Championship standard

699
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: earned spots on the US team for the World Athletic

700
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: Championships in Tokyo in September. But there are other ways

701
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: to qualify.

702
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, so if you're a defending champion or a

703
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 5: ragning champion, So for instance, Carry Richardson is automatically in

704
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 5: because she is the reigning world champion. If you don't

705
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 5: have the qualifying time, there.

706
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 4: Is also a quota.

707
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 5: So if you've placed in the top three at the

708
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 5: US Championships but you don't have the time at the end,

709
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 5: if you're in the quota, so that's as many athletes

710
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 5: as are allowed per event. If you are ranked in

711
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 5: that quota, then you also get to go okay.

712
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: So Sidney McLaughlin Lavroni is skipping the four hundimeter hurdles

713
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: to focus on the four hundred open. Does that mean

714
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: she won't compete in the hurdles in Tokyo either? Because

715
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: didn't she miss out on the World Championships because of.

716
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 4: Injury yeah, you're correct.

717
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 5: She is not the She did not race last time

718
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 5: because she was injured, so she is not the reigning champion.

719
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 5: She does not have an automatic buy, so she is

720
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 5: literally saying, I'm not running the four hundred meter hurdles.

721
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 5: I think, and I don't call her races, but I

722
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 5: feel confident in the team I work with, and I

723
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 5: can say that there's a lot of talk about Sydney

724
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 5: really trying to elevate herself and become the goat and

725
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 5: what does that look like? That looks like a double

726
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 5: in LA. That looks like a hurdle flat double. And

727
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 5: so now she's really focusing on We know she can.

728
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 4: Do the hurdles.

729
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: She's the best to ever do it over and over

730
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: and over.

731
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 4: A yeah, I mean it's incredible.

732
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 5: It's incredible raising herself at this point. The women around

733
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 5: her just keep getting better, but yet she still makes

734
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 5: them look JV.

735
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 4: I mean, it's like crazy, right.

736
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 5: So she's so talented that once in a lifetime generation athlete, obviously,

737
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 5: but I think she wants more. So I think that's

738
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 5: what we're seeing is the focus on this four hundred.

739
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 5: I know there's been frustration that the American record hasn't

740
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 5: gone down. I don't think Sonya Richards Ross has been

741
00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 5: sad that it hasn't been broken yet.

742
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 4: But I think that'll be a big focus.

743
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it makes sense, you know, it's kind of

744
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: you think, how could you not want to raise the

745
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: thing that you're not certain to win but pretty close,

746
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: but to have herself have a challenge in front of

747
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: her that feels like it will also add to her

748
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: lore to do the double one of the storylines that

749
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: you're most excited to follow at nationals.

750
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, there's so many. I think the women's

751
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 5: eight hundred is really interesting. We see a thing mo

752
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 5: NIKOLAIAV who's been coming back from sort of like a

753
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 5: down period in her career, but seems to be inching

754
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 5: her way back while she'd be able to do it

755
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 5: in the eight hundred. The women's fifteen hundred is incredibly strong.

756
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 5: The US team Nicki Hilts has been basically unstoppable. They've

757
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 5: just been incredible the last two years. They come in

758
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 5: as the you know, defending champion. Sinclair Johnson looks good,

759
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 5: a couple other women that event, in particular for the US,

760
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 5: looks very very good. And then I think the five

761
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 5: thousand and the ten thousand are a little bit more open.

762
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 5: I think Wayney Colati is kind of a sure thing

763
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 5: in the ten thousand, but the rest of it is

764
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 5: a little bit more open, which we haven't seen that

765
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 5: very like distinct the top.

766
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 4: Two or three the last couple of years.

767
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 5: So it gives someone a chance with a new name

768
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 5: to kind of break through.

769
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: Okay, this might be a dumb question, but I've always

770
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: kind of wondered this. The fifteen hundred and the mile

771
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: are so close. It's like one hundred meter difference. So

772
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: why isn't the same person always winning both of those.

773
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 5: That's a great question, and you would think it would

774
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 5: just be the same person, But you know, I think

775
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 5: of someone like, I mean, this is a man, but

776
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 5: Yard Neigus just loves that extra one hundred and nine meters.

777
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 4: He just feels like that separates.

778
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 5: Him from the rest. And you know, Nicki Hilts had

779
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 5: the American record in the mile and just really and

780
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 5: that last hundred was able to break away from the

781
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 5: rest of the Americans in that race. Sinclair Johnson just

782
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 5: broke their record. But it is interesting, it's a little

783
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 5: bit strength based that little bit of extra one hundred

784
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 5: and nine meters. Some some athletes just are better at it.

785
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, for those listening, you might remember in a previous show,

786
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: we had our minds blown cartoon style by the fact

787
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: that it's actually sixteen and nine meters. Yeah, for the mile.

788
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: I was a D one track athlete. I somehow never

789
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: knew that, but also because I would never be running

790
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: the mile.

791
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that is funny.

792
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 5: It's like they line you up and then they back

793
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 5: you up nine meters, you know. Yeah, it's pretty wild.

794
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Grand Slam Track because Michael

795
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: Johnson revealed last week it's in a multi million dollar

796
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: hole because an investor backed out of their full commitment.

797
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: They had to cancel an event. Front Office Sports is

798
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: reporting that the league owes athletes at least thirteen million

799
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: dollars and vendors large sums of money as well. It

800
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: is such a shame to see a big swing like this,

801
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: this great opportunity for athletes financially and in terms of

802
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: places to run and ways to run. To see it

803
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: struggle this early on, and if it is simply an

804
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: investor backing out, that feels like contracts you they'll be

805
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: able to fight it. But what are you hearing about

806
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: the future of Grand Slam track. Whether or not it's

807
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: an investor's fault, this still has a great impact on

808
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: what the future might look like.

809
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 5: I think it'll be really hard for athletes to sign

810
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 5: on to this moving forward after what happened this year.

811
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 5: I think there was a lot of promises in Grand

812
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 5: Slam and a lot of opportunity.

813
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 4: Some of it felt too big.

814
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 5: You know. I had been approached by Grand Slam to

815
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 5: join the broadcast team, and some of the promise felt

816
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 5: a little bit too big for me, and it just

817
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 5: didn't work out with my schedule. But I think the

818
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 5: money that the athletes were making it was worth it

819
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 5: for them. Even if it was a one year deal,

820
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 5: it was worth it for them. But now we're hearing

821
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: that while appearance fees have been paid out, prize money

822
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 5: has not not even to Gabby Thomas, you know, the

823
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 5: Olympic champion, three time Olympic champion from Paris. She said

824
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 5: the other day they made a really cool TikTok about

825
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 5: her and she's like, cool, can you pay me?

826
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

827
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 5: You know, And so I think this is going to

828
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 5: be a big problem moving forward because there are other

829
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 5: opportunities that those athletes said no to. They said no

830
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 5: to Diamond League races, they said no to pace efforts

831
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 5: against the best competition in the world, to try out

832
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 5: this new formula and make some money. And now you

833
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 5: know they're there right now, they're not being paid. I

834
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 5: think hopefully it'll all get worked out. I love that

835
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 5: they tried something new. I think that's great. I think

836
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 5: that's what the sport needs.

837
00:38:59,360 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 4: I found them.

838
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 5: Me it's very interesting and very exciting to see the

839
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 5: athletes come back, but it's hard for me to imagine

840
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 5: who would sign on to it in year two.

841
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've got Diamond League, We've got Grand Slam,

842
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: We've got athlos which is much shorter events. The maxis

843
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: since they had was fifteen hundred. They are adding a

844
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: long jump this upcoming fall event, which will be cool

845
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: to see. But you know, some of these events are

846
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: pretty limited in what they offer, but there's still something

847
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: to try to change the space. And I think a

848
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: lot of the criticisms around Diamond League is that it

849
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: hasn't really taken advantage of being the premier quote unquote league.

850
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: They just kind of settle for what they've always done.

851
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: What would you like to see in the space as

852
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: the efforts to continue to grow track and field outside

853
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: of Olympic and even championship events continues.

854
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 5: I love what Athlos is doing. Next year they're going

855
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 5: to have four meets, which I think will be really exciting.

856
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 5: This year they're adding the long jump. You know, they

857
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 5: had brought on Tara Davis Woodall as an investor. I mean,

858
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 5: great idea. She is iconic. Everyone loves her. Her and her husband,

859
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 5: who's an Olympic gold medals in the Paralympics, so and

860
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 5: she's the gold medals in the long jump. So just

861
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 5: a power couple. And I love what they're doing there.

862
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 5: I agree with you that the Diamond League has been

863
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 5: the standard forever and it's almost like they don't have

864
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 5: to reinvent the wheel, but just like join the twenty

865
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 5: first century a little bit.

866
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, get in a car.

867
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, it'd be like that would be great because they're reliable.

868
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 5: We know the races are going to be good. We

869
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 5: know they're going to have all the events. We know

870
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 5: that typically the weather is good. I mean they're laid

871
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 5: out on the calendar with the best weather for each location,

872
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 5: so we know it's going to be reliable competition, but

873
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 5: just get on board and maybe pay the athletes a

874
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 5: little bit more. And I think that's the biggest thing

875
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 5: holding the Diamond League back, is that the good thing

876
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 5: is that it has more spots on the track, it

877
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: has more events, it has field, it has everything. But

878
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 5: the way the athletes get paid through Diamond Leak isn't

879
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 5: that great. And we just if we want to move forward,

880
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 5: we got to start paying the athletes.

881
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: We did see a little nudge after ATHLETs essentially called

882
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: them out publicly by saying we're paying more than they are,

883
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 1: and so they uped it a little bit. But maybe

884
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: they just need a few more a few more nudges.

885
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: I love talking to you, just could pick your brain

886
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: all day. Thank you so much for the time. We'll

887
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: keep listening to the podcast and keep watching on NBC,

888
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: and I'll be envious of whatever length of time you

889
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: can run, even if it's not enough for you. I'll

890
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: be over here just like dreaming of a couple miles.

891
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 5: So thank you so much.

892
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Kara for joining us. We have

893
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: to take another break when we come back. We take

894
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: two laps around the track without collapsing, and who doesn't

895
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: love Burner Boy, Welcome back slices. It's time for another

896
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: edition of What the Fact, inspired by my conversation with

897
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: Kara Okay.

898
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 3: So.

899
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: During Kara's Olympic career, she had the opportunity to compete

900
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: in three different Olympic races, the five thousand and ten

901
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: thousand meter events in two thousand and eight and the

902
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: marathon in twenty twelve. But it wasn't that long ago

903
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: that women weren't allowed to run that far at the Olympics.

904
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: So let's take it back to nineteen twenty eight and

905
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: the Amsterdam Olympics. Now, those games marked the first time

906
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: that women were allowed to compete in track and field

907
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: at the Olympics, and they had just five events to

908
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: choose from the one hundred meter, eight hundred meter four

909
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: by one hundred meter relay, high jump, and discus throw.

910
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 1: But the real drama was in that eight hundred meters.

911
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: So after the race, which is two laps of the

912
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: track about a half a mile, a few of the

913
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 1: women looked like a lot of athletes do after a long,

914
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: fast run, pretty damn tired. A couple competitors even collapsed

915
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 1: in exhaustion on the track. And for the men watching

916
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: from the stands and in the press box, it was

917
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: just too much to bear. Quote Below us on the

918
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: cinder path were eleven wretched women, five of whom dropped

919
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: out before the finish, while five collapsed after reaching the

920
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: tape breathlessly, wrote one reporter for The New York Evening Post.

921
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: Other members of the media lamented that the women's reproductive

922
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: systems were at risk. Now none of that was true,

923
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: of course, mister New York Evening Post even got a

924
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: few details wrong in the story, as there were nine

925
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: women in the final, not eleven, and all of them

926
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: crossed the finish line, with several competitors bettering the previous

927
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: world record. Of course, those facts didn't keep Track and

928
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: Fields governing body from voting to remove the eight hundred

929
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: meters from future Olympic programs, and so for the next

930
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: three decades, the longest distance women were allowed to run

931
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: at the Olympics was two hundred meters, just to half

932
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: a lap of the track. It wasn't until nineteen sixty

933
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: that the women's eight hundred meter returned to the Olympics. Now,

934
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: when this happened, men, of course, were still not always

935
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: fully supportive. In fact, during the women's eight hundred meter

936
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight, won by American Madeline Manning. Commentary

937
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: included quote eight hundred meters for the women is a

938
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: long way to go, isn't it?

939
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:44,280
Speaker 3: Jim?

940
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: Yes it is Jim, and yes they were both named Jim.

941
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: Over the next few decades, more women's distance events were

942
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: slowly added. The women's marathon was added in nineteen eighty four,

943
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: eighty eight years after the men's event debuted at the Olympics,

944
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: and the women's ten thousand meters was added in nineteen

945
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: eighty eight, while the five thousand meter was finally added

946
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six. These days, the men's and women's

947
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: events in track and field are identical, with the one

948
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: exception of the multi men compete in the ten event

949
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: to kathlon where women have the seven event heptathlon. But

950
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: that's a conversation for another day. This what the fact

951
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: brought to you by elf Beauty. And here's another fact.

952
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: When a company reflects the community it serves, it just

953
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: makes elf in sense, especially when it starts in the

954
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: highest seats of decision making. Elf Beauty, who has delivered

955
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: twenty five consecutive quarters of net sales growth and market

956
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: share gains. Is one of only five publicly traded companies

957
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: in the US with a board of directors that is

958
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: sixty seven percent women and forty four percent diverse. It

959
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: is the only cosmetics brand to grow market share every

960
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: single quarter for the past twenty five quarters. Elf is

961
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: for every eye, lip, and face, and when you're for

962
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: the every everyone wins. Learn more about what ELF Beauty

963
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: is doing to help diversify corporate boards visit changethboardgame dot com.

964
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: We love that your listen in y'all, but we want

965
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: you to get in the game every day too, So

966
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: here's our good game play of the day now. I

967
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: don't know if you slices saw the Euro Final postgame celebration,

968
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: but it had everything. It had the double decker buses

969
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: and the big stage to celebrate the players. But the

970
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: best part by far was that the England Lioness's coach,

971
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 1: Serena Veegman, absolutely lost it when her favorite artist burna

972
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: Boy walked on stage to sing next to her and

973
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: she knew all the damn words. If you haven't seen

974
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: the footage, we'll link to it in our show notes

975
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: because it's so good. So we want to hear from

976
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: you slices which artists popping up on stage next to

977
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: you would get you hyped like Serena Viegman, and you

978
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: know you'd be able to sing along with all the words.

979
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: For me, there are just too many right answers. I

980
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: would lose my shit over a number of people. But

981
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to go with the guy that gets me

982
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: squealing like a teenager ever since I was a teenager,

983
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: Dave Matthews. Listen. You can hate on it if you want,

984
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: and I know some of you are, but that man

985
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: is a lifetime hall passing my book, his songwriting, his voice,

986
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: his little goofy dances. Swoon. Now. I have personally witnessed

987
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: women standing near me at a Dave Matthews show go

988
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: from asking if he's on drugs or potentially recently had

989
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 1: a stroke to very soon after loudly proclaiming that they'd

990
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: hit it, lust works and mysterious ways y'all lover lay down. Indeed,

991
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: Alex Mesh, who you got just one?

992
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 3: Sarah? You didn't even mention my favorite fact about Dave Matthews,

993
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 3: which is that he had the best ever been in

994
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 3: Jerry's flavor best every.

995
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: It does not inspire lust. But it is a true fact.

996
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 3: I think I would probably pick The Killers, just specifically

997
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 3: mister Brightside on repeat all day long.

998
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: Oh. Also, Brandon Flowers can get it. I don't know

999
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: if you're aware.

1000
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 4: I'm not aware.

1001
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: I remember that at one point I was at home

1002
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: and I flipped on this show that was like dives

1003
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: deeply into one individual song per episode, and I had

1004
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: really enjoyed The Killers but had never really looked at

1005
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: them before, and Brandon Flowers popped up on the screen

1006
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: and I was like damn. And I went to text

1007
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: all my friends about it. But it was like one

1008
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning because I had just gotten home

1009
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: pretty hammered and I was trying to eat some mac

1010
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: and cheese when I realized, Brandon Flowers can get it anyway.

1011
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: Me sure you got.

1012
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 2: Oh the journeys you both take me on a daily basis.

1013
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 4: Erica Badu's gotta get more.

1014
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: Oh definitely, Erica bad I'm coming up on stage with

1015
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 2: my little incense and a little little.

1016
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 4: Circle and do them a little.

1017
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1018
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 4: Me and Erica would get.

1019
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: Down for sure. Okay, are you prepared for Erica to

1020
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: be two hours late to surprise you on stage? Yes,

1021
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: that's fine because that's how it usually goes with her.

1022
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: That's fine. She might not even show up at all.

1023
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 4: Wait, you'll be there.

1024
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: You need to do You'll be there waiting.

1025
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 4: I'll be here.

1026
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: Let us know, slices, we always love to hear from you,

1027
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: So hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork

1028
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,439
Speaker 1: dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven

1029
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: two two four fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe

1030
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: a rate And it's real easy watch throwing a dildo

1031
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: on the court in the middle of a basketball game

1032
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: rating ten out of ten inches review. Someone threw a

1033
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: dildo on the court during the fourth quarter of the

1034
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: Atlanta Dream versus Golden State Valkyries game, and none of

1035
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: us will ever be the same. Now, I want to

1036
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: be clear, throwing stuff onto the court is bad. Don't

1037
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: do it. But if you're gonna do it, and you

1038
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: gotta throw something, a neon green dildo as funny as

1039
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: I mean, what was the thought process pregame for that person?

1040
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: Was it a dare? Did they lose a bet? Did

1041
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: they forget it was in their bag and need to

1042
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: get rid of it because they were on a date

1043
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: or something. And speaking of your bag, I can barely

1044
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: get a phone and a lip gloss in those tiny

1045
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 1: little things that they allow in stadiums these days. Did

1046
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: you walk through security with a giant Neon green dildo

1047
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: in a clear bag? I need to know. But again,

1048
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: this is very unsafe and definitely don't do that. But

1049
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: also next time, double sided. Now it's your turn, rate

1050
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Kara,

1051
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 1: Good Game, the Comeback Kids, Cam and Allie. You those

1052
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: skinny little wooden trays that they make you shove your

1053
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,479
Speaker 1: person to its stadiums to make sure they're small enough,

1054
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: y'all be scratching up my gucci because you can't just

1055
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: eyeball it. Damn. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an

1056
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports

1057
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,

1058
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by

1059
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.

1060
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,

1061
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez,

1062
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones.

1063
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: Production assistance from Avery LOFTUS and I'm Your Host Sarah

1064
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: Spain