1 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay EFFI daily with 2 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: me your girl Danielle Moody, recording back live from our 3 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: pun Stream studios here in Times Square. Dear friends, what 4 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: a goddamn week it has been. I want to believe 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: that there is still time. I want to believe that 6 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: the collection of Democrats who recognize the urgency of this 7 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: moment are going to act that they are not going 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: to let this historic time pass us by and be 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: left with a bunch of what ifs. But if you 10 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: are watching the infrastructure bill fight play out right now, 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: you are not feeling hopeful. You are actually probably feeling aggravated, 12 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: anxiety induced, rage filled at the fact that you have 13 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: two supposed Democrats who are willing to extinguish our democracy 14 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: for their own ends. So again, when we direct all 15 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: of our hope, right when we direct all of our 16 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: hope on oh, I don't know, two fucking people, or 17 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: the hope that they're going to be more Francises in 18 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: the world or more Fiona Hills in the world, and 19 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: we realize that they are not, that that this country 20 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: is actually made up of a bunch of cinemas and mansions, 21 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: people that don't really give a fuck. They only care 22 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: about their own town, their own life, their own family, 23 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: and be damned everyone else you even had This week 24 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: Joe Biden mentioning there are two people that are holding 25 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: up my agenda, but doesn't have the balls to say 26 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: who the fuck those two people are being? Is how 27 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: we all know who they are that doesn't have the 28 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: balls to take it to them to the fucking street 29 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: and say, you know what, here's the thing, American people, 30 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: I am doing everything within my goddamn power in order 31 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: to try and make sure that another six hundred and 32 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: fifty thousand Americans don't die from COVID, and I'm sorry 33 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: we are now at over seven hundred thousand that I'm 34 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: trying to do my best to make sure that more 35 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: people don't lose their jobs, that you have clean drinking water, 36 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: that we can build up infrastructure to fight our twenty 37 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: first century climate change problem, right the crises that we 38 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: are in. And I could do all of these things, 39 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: you see, because I have great policy ideas and I 40 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: have good people working with me. But I have two 41 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: people that refuse. And so, dear fellow American, do you 42 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: know what I need? I need you to pick up 43 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: the fucking phone. I need you to inundate their offices. 44 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: I need you to do sit ins, I need you 45 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: to do march is. I need you to make calls, 46 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: and I need you to defund these two fucking senators 47 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: because they are the ones that are standing between you 48 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: and your livelihood, between you and our democracy. Because let 49 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: me tell you something, we are running out of time 50 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: for Joe Biden to play the fucking comforter in chief. 51 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: And I am frankly don't need a comforter anymore. I 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: will say it again. I need a fucking commander. I 53 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: need a warrior. I need somebody that knows that we 54 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: don't have any time left and need to leave everything 55 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: on the fucking floor. Right, But Joe Biden still believes 56 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: that he's operating with twentieth century senators. He still believes 57 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: that Mitch McConnell gon spit in his face but then 58 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: want to grab a scotch with him later and that 59 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: will hash it out as the way we do in 60 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: the deliberative body. Dear Joe Biden, the Senate is dead. 61 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: Collaboration is dead, right. I don't know what else it 62 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: is that Mitch McConnell literally has to say other than 63 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: what he already said, which is that his one job, 64 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: his job is not to make sure that the American 65 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: people are okay. His job is not to make sure 66 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: that America stays competitive on the global stage. No, his 67 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: one job is to make sure that you are a 68 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: one term president. Ding ding ding. Where the fuck did 69 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: we hear that before? So here's the thing. We keep 70 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: betting on everyone's better angels. And the question that I 71 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: am offering is what if they have none? Right? I 72 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: know that I say this often, but I gotta tell 73 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: you this week not making me feel great, kind of 74 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: making me feel like. You know, we are already living 75 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four and big Brother is everywhere. All 76 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: I can say is, you know, at least China is 77 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: transparent about their shit. And by transparent, I mean that 78 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: they are all about social control right and beating back 79 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: any type of resistance. In America, we say that you're 80 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: We're all about freedom, except we've sold your data to 81 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: the highest bidder. We're all about freedom, except we're using 82 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: your information against you for capitalistic gains. And then we 83 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: won't regulate shit, because then that would be taking money 84 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: out of our own coffers. I don't think Wu Tang 85 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: knew how prolific they were when they said that cash 86 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: rules everything around me. But dear fucking god, they really were. 87 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: Coming up next is my conversation with the brilliant writer 88 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: from The New Yorker and the voice one of the 89 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: voices behind the new book Black Lives Matter is Gilanni Cobb. 90 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: So stay tuned for that conversation, folks. I am very 91 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: excited to have our second you, Gilani Cobb, are our 92 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: second in studio guest um for wok app Daily. I'm 93 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: really excited to beat me up the MSNBC host Yasmin 94 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: Masougi and beat you out. So I mean something like 95 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: the silver medalist. You are a silver but still on 96 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: the podium. Yeah, but you know they always say like 97 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: the bronze medalist is happier than the civil the silver 98 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: medal because the silver is the runner up. Bronze medalist 99 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: is happy to be getting a medal, but the silver 100 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: medalist is like, what could I have done? And so 101 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: it's the situation where I was like, I lost by 102 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: a fraction of a second. Could I have gotten you here? 103 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: If I had enticed you with the fact that you 104 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: would have been the first sure you have come quicker. Absolutely, Okay, 105 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: all right, definitely that was my That was my I'm 106 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: just saying, standing here with the silver medal, with the 107 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: silver medal, but you're still on woke app so that 108 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: in and of itself is winning and makes you a champion. 109 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: Gilanni Cobb, you are a staff writer with The New Yorker. 110 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: You have put together edited one of the most dance 111 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: books I think that cover black life in America, The 112 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: Matter of black Lives. You put this together. He I 113 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: don't even know how you were working in the midst 114 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty. Me. I needed to be partly catatonic 115 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: for half of it, and then, you know, then started 116 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: to kind of get the win back in my sales. 117 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: But I want to talk to you about did you 118 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: think the weeks the months following the murder of George 119 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: Floyd that we had reached some type of reckoning because 120 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: we were all collectively indoors, right, we were all on 121 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: our devices, staring at the TV, just waiting for whatever 122 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: bit of news about the future of our lives, of 123 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 1: our planet as it was being enveloped in this virus, 124 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: and then recognizing the multiple pandemics that we are actually 125 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: living in Did you think that it was going to 126 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: be a reckoning or was it just going to be 127 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: one of the many? So I was at a disadvantage 128 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: in understanding the significance of George Floyd. And the reason 129 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: I was at a disadvantage was the fact that I 130 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: had written about when I was in my twenties, I 131 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: had written about Amadudiallo and Abner Louima, you know, who 132 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: were respectively shot and sexually abused by in my PD offices, 133 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: and the kind of tortured path it took to get 134 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: any semblance of justice those situations. Of course, it was 135 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: you're Rodney King. Before that I wasn't really writing. But 136 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: in my thirties, you know, I had written about all 137 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: of these instances of police excessive use of force. In 138 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: my forties, had written about, you know, all these concerns. 139 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: And here I was as a fifty one year old person, 140 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: and I had seen overwhelmingly the same outcome of the 141 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: administration or the bureaucracy circling ranks and finding a way 142 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: to exonerate the person who had committed and agree just wrong. 143 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: And so I thought, when I looked at the video, 144 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: I said, this is horrific. Is in humane, is disgusting. 145 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: They'll find a way to get to get this guy off. 146 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: And what I underestimated was, well, I undersubmitated two things. 147 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: The first was the impact of everyone at home. There 148 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: was nothing to distract your people didn't have to go 149 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: to work, you know, and so they could just stew 150 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: in these visuals and what the inhumanity of it meant. 151 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: And the second thing was the excruciating length of that video, 152 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: which I still never watched. I attempted to watch it 153 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: when we did a documentary on policing, and you know, 154 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: as part of the documentary, I sat down and said 155 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: I should watch this video, and you know, I got 156 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: to like maybe the four minute mark, and I was like, 157 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: I need to stop this. But for people who sat 158 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: there and watched and like, do how long it takes anything? 159 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: For eight minutes and forty six seconds, you know, that 160 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: is commitment. And this person kneeled a minute after minute 161 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: after minute after minute in service of the cause of 162 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: extinguishing George Floyd's like And I think that people weren't 163 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: prepared to see that kind of casual sadism on display 164 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: because it's different. I mean, it's all tortuous and disgusting. 165 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: But it's different with a bullet, right, because there's a there, 166 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: there is a distance right that is between it, and 167 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: it's generally generally quicker. Right, this was right, and he 168 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: could say, oh, I feared from her, I feared from 169 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: my life. Right is the common refrain because it's so quick, 170 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: and you know, cops have to act so quickly under pressure, 171 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: is what they tell us time and time again. But 172 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: this wasn't that. And I think that I foolishly believed 173 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: that this was going to be a reckoning moment because 174 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: I said, there's no way that you watch this for 175 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: that long. And but but at the same time, I 176 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: did also say, well, they're going to hang this on 177 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: this one bad apple, which is what they say every 178 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: single time on woke AF. I say, yeah, it's a 179 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: bad apple from a poisonous orchard that had spanned the 180 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: length of this country. What are we what are you 181 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: talking about? But as long as we can convince people 182 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: that if we get rid of this one, there are 183 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: so many good ones, right, which is which is what 184 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: happened in the Derek Chauvin trial. You know, I covered 185 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: the trial and when you saw the police chief Madaria 186 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: Rodondo come out and denounce Chauvin's actions. You saw the 187 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: various members of the police department come out, you saw 188 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: police voices from across the country denouncing what he had done. 189 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: And I said, you know, we're being good copped, you know, 190 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: because in order to highlight the idea that the police 191 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: are fundamentally good and benign, we need to distinguish ourselves 192 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: from this person, to say he's not one of us, 193 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: he's not like us. But the problem is that he 194 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: had been on the Minneapolis Police Force for I think 195 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: it was nineteen years, that he had been in a 196 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: supervisory capacity, that he had been training younger officers in 197 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: the ways of the department, and he had been promoted. 198 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: And so by what metric was this man not one 199 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: of you? And so of course he was one of them. 200 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: He represented them in their values and as demonstrated by 201 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: their continued employment of him and their promotions of him. 202 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: And so it was really a kind of illusion that 203 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: thought we were being sold. And the point of it 204 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: was so that we could get back to the business 205 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: as usual set of presumptions that if there is this person, 206 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: especially if it's a person of color, who dies in 207 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: the course of an interact, with the police. They had 208 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: it coming. This your book, The Matter of Black Lives, 209 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: with this deep anthology, all of these stories, this analysis, 210 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: How how or do you hold on to any semblance 211 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: that America isn't destined for just implosion more of the same. Yeah, 212 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: because I will tell you that one of the things 213 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: that gets me every time that I read you know, 214 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: your writing, uh and others, Charles Blow other other folks. 215 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, it just never gets any better, right, And 216 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: so how you know, how do you hang on to 217 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: any like that that we're not just going to implode, 218 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: that we're just not headed towards destruction. It's interesting, Um, 219 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, in this collection, we have this really dazzling 220 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: array of people, you know, thinking about these questions and 221 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: how they pertain um and not necessarily you know, expressly 222 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: or explicitly. Sometimes it's as a subtext, you know. But 223 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: we have you know, Tony Morrison's writing in here, Hilton Owl's, 224 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: Zadie Smith, Henry Lewis Gates during Saint Felix, my current 225 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: colleague at The New Yorker, Khalif Asana, you know, a 226 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: whole I hate when I started mentioning people because then 227 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: you leave people out the people starting upset about it, 228 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: But there's really so much, such a breath of work 229 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: in there that I really think it's a kind of 230 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: profound set of meditations about individuals, about events, about places, 231 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: about people, and so on. And maybe the net effect 232 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: of that is to have a broader perspective on whether 233 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: or not there's hope, whether or not there's the possibility 234 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: of change. You know, as I wrote in the introduction, 235 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: I said that the anthology is not about race. It's 236 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: about the people who are most commonly tasked with confronting it, 237 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, because race affects the entire society, but it 238 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: is typically black people who expect it to confront and 239 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: wrestle with, you know, this demon and try to drag 240 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: it out of the public square. And so that's what 241 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: we were trying to get at, you know, to your 242 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: specific question about about implosion, I actually don't view it 243 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: that way. I think that there is change, but it's 244 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: just that that change is fragile, is contested that you 245 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: have to protect it, you have to hold onto it. 246 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: But you know, when we start looking at our political representation, 247 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: even as the people are trying to throw impediments, you know, 248 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: between us and the ballot box. Now, you know, in 249 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: some ways, we're looking at this from a different vantage 250 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: point because you know, we have a congressional Black caucus, 251 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 1: we have black elected officials and cities across the country 252 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: on the municipal level. You know, on the state level, 253 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: that black people have a level of political power an 254 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: authority which is far and away different from what we 255 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: looked at in nineteen sixty five, which is to say 256 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: that what John Lewis was getting hit over the head 257 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: for worked. You know, it wasn't a cure. It was 258 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: a treatment, but it was a treatment that had results, 259 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: and so I think that we have to have an assessment. 260 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: The other thing that I think it's important is that 261 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, when I have this conversation, which I have 262 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: quite frequently with my students, I always direct them at 263 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: to the last message that w Eb Dwo Boys released 264 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: the world, or rather the message that was released upon 265 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: his death, and as background, the Boys, when he was 266 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: twenty five years old, said that he would devote his 267 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: life to slaying white supremacy, that he would fight against 268 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: white supremacy on behalf of black people. That was what 269 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: he wanted to dedicate his life too. He was twenty 270 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: five years old. He did that until he was ninety 271 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: five years old. He was still fighting when he died. 272 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: Seven decades of his life, seven decades he pursued this mission. 273 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: And when he died, he left a message saying for 274 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: people coming after him to not despair because our struggles 275 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: along and because the roads are difficult, you know, but 276 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: always humanity reaches a higher level, he said. And so 277 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: I don't have the vantage point of seventy years of struggle. 278 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: So I don't really have the right to be pessimistic 279 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: day that I see it now making me feel like 280 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: I don't have the right to be that. I based 281 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: my lave this journey. Um. Now the last question, the 282 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: last question for you. Um. You know, the past eighteen 283 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: months have been one of the most trying times in 284 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: our country, on our planet, and in our world. And 285 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, on woke AF I talk a lot, 286 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: obviously about politics, and talk a lot about race and identity, UM, 287 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: but I'm also moving into a place of talking about 288 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: what it means to live whole and to live full 289 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: and to center joy, especially in the face of persistent despair. 290 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: So how do you keep yourself centered in some type 291 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: of joy. How do you keep your light about you 292 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: in the face of darkness? You know, it's funny because 293 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: I mean very small thing things, you know. So if 294 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: I think about what made me really happy today, I 295 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: woke up at four fifty nine this morning, and I 296 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: got up and before I did anything, you know, started anything, 297 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: I just sat down in the dark quiet, and that 298 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: was it. You know, that was the thing that made 299 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: me happiest in that day. And then, you know, I 300 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: think that for me looking at the younger people who 301 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: were coming up now and coming into their own and 302 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: even you know, the children that were coming included mind, 303 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: you know that that, you know, those are things that 304 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: make me happy. I went out and bought myself a 305 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: new suit last week, which is you know, I love clothes, 306 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: and one point, buying a new suit would have really 307 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: like been a thing like, oh wow, this suit, we 308 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: haven't gonna wear it, and it's and so forth. And 309 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: it was okay. I mean I liked it. I mean 310 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: I still like suits. But you know, the thing that 311 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: really made me happy is thinking about playing a role 312 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: in the development of these younger people who are coming 313 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: after me. I love that. Joanni Cobb, thank you so much. 314 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: For making time, folks. The book is the matter of 315 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: black lives. I implore you all to pick it up 316 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: because we're going to be going through it on the show. 317 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much. That's it for Today's Woke, 318 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: a f daily podcast. To hear more from today's show, 319 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: including my full interview with Jilanni Cobb, support me on 320 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: Patreon at patreon dot com. Slash Woke a power to 321 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: the people and to all the people power, get woke 322 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.