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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome to this week's external exam, A Mother

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Speaker 2: Knows Death. Today's guest is Cheryl Mack McCollum. You may

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Speaker 2: know her from her podcast Son seven and she's also

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Speaker 2: on Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Mac is a crime

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Speaker 2: scene investigator who specializes in cold cases and is the

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Speaker 2: director and founder of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute. Hi, Mac,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: How are you so much for being here. Oh honey,

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: It's such an honor to talk to you. I have

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Speaker 2: to tell you that my mom is so jealous that

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Speaker 2: I'm talking to you right now. She loves you so

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Speaker 2: much listening to this, so please say hi to her.

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Speaker 3: Tell me what's your mama's name?

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Speaker 2: Her name is Beth.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Beth, we got to get together, some girl, We

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Speaker 3: got some things to talk about.

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Speaker 2: She would definitely agree with you there. So before we

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Speaker 2: get started, you just have such an awesome career and

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Speaker 2: an awesome resume. And I always like to ask people

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Speaker 2: how they got into what they're doing now, like even

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Speaker 2: from when you were a little kid. So I know,

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Speaker 2: a long time ago, back in nineteen eighty two, you

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Speaker 2: started your career in law enforcement. How did you get there?

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Speaker 2: How'd you get into that line of work?

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Speaker 3: Well, it actually started long before in nineteen eighty two,

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Speaker 3: but that was my first formal introduction. But when I

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Speaker 3: first became captivated, I was four. And here's the deal.

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Speaker 3: My mother was probably the greatest storyteller ever, and she

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Speaker 3: could captivate you and just weave this story that just

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Speaker 3: drew you in so way. Back in the sixes, you know,

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Speaker 3: you got outside of Atlanta and radio stations wouldn't pick

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Speaker 3: up anymore. So she would just tell us stories all

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Speaker 3: the way to our destination.

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Speaker 2: That's so cood.

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Speaker 3: And when I was four, she told us the story

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Speaker 3: of Bonnie and Clyde, all five of us, and I

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Speaker 3: couldn't get enough of them. I just couldn't understand at first.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's this couple, they love each other madly, right,

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Speaker 3: And the story she told us is they Chris crossed

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Speaker 3: the United States, you know, robbing banks. And I was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know why you and Daddy don't do that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's so much better. That's so much better

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Speaker 3: plan with five kids, Lady like, you know, we need

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Speaker 3: some money, you know, and so she only told us

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Speaker 3: the real exciting part of the banks and the notes

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Speaker 3: and the poetry and all that sort of stuff. So

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Speaker 3: it was much later that I found out, you know,

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Speaker 3: of course they're ending, and that they had actually, you know,

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Speaker 3: murdered people. So that's kind of where it all started.

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Speaker 3: I just couldn't get enough of these crime stories, and

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Speaker 3: she would tell them on every car trip, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: I would beg her at night to please tell me

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Speaker 3: a crime story, and she was like, honey, you don't

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Speaker 3: want a crime story when you're trying to go to

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Speaker 3: sleep at four and five years old. But I did,

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Speaker 3: and so she would again. She would modify them, you know,

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Speaker 3: and tell me, you know, little bits and pieces. But

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Speaker 3: you know, I just became just so enthralled in the

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Speaker 3: idea of Alcopone and John Dillinger and all these people.

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Speaker 3: I just I thought they're not like anybody I've ever met, obviously,

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Speaker 3: so I thought it was fantastic.

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Speaker 2: That's so cool. I was going to say, like, you're

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Speaker 2: when you were first telling this story, so I was

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Speaker 2: going to say, oh, your mom's like a little sick then, right,

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Speaker 2: like telling a little child that, and I always remember

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Speaker 2: my Grandmam was kind of like that too, just always

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Speaker 2: introducing us to stuff when we were really young. And

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Speaker 2: it's it's cool though that she that she was able

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Speaker 2: to talk to you on a level a four year

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Speaker 2: old could understand, but at the same time getting you

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Speaker 2: into that. So I love that. So you've been into

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Speaker 2: crime scenes and investigations since you were as.

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Speaker 4: Long as you can remember, yes, And they were great

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Speaker 4: at fueling that, but somewhat appropriately. So when I was eight,

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Speaker 4: they took me to see the death car, so by

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Speaker 4: eight I knew what had happened to him, and the

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Speaker 4: man that owned the car at the time let me

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Speaker 4: sit in it.

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Speaker 3: And the thing that I remember most, I can tell

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Speaker 3: you right now, there's two things. The way the car smelled,

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Speaker 3: because I'd never been in a really old car, and

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Speaker 3: anybody that's been in an antique car knows the smell

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about. And then the other thing was as

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Speaker 3: little as I was, there was nowhere I could sit

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Speaker 3: in that car. There wasn't a bullet hole nowhere, not

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Speaker 3: in the seat, not the floorboard, not the door, not

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Speaker 3: the windshield. And at the time, even being eight, I thought, man,

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Speaker 3: this was a little too much, like it didn't take

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Speaker 3: all this, you know. But I didn't know anything aboutjectory then,

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Speaker 3: But I can tell you now they had them dead

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Speaker 3: to rite, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 2: Well that now I don't feel as bad for taking

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Speaker 2: my kids to the serial killer Museum. It's your mom's

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Speaker 2: like on the same level as me. I love that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so you got into so then you knew

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Speaker 2: from the time you were a little kid, you were

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Speaker 2: going to get into some kind of law enforcement, right.

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Speaker 3: So in nineteen eighty two, eighty two eighty three, I

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Speaker 3: was in high school and I was just itching to

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Speaker 3: actually get into it. Like I wanted real cases, I

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Speaker 3: wanted real victims. I wanted to work with real detectives.

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Speaker 3: And I just didn't want to wait my turn, you know.

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Speaker 3: So Atlanta has a hospital, Grady Hospital. It's fabulous, it's

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Speaker 3: very famous. They've got the Burn Center there. They're a

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Speaker 3: Level one trauma center. They're just tremendous. But they also

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Speaker 3: serve our rent crisis center. So at eighteen, I could

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Speaker 3: volunteer there, pick my shift, and then you're a sign

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Speaker 3: an Atlanta sex crimes detective. So when I started working

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Speaker 3: at eighteen at the Crisis Center as a volunteer. I

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Speaker 3: was assigned detective Black with the rape Crisis sex crimes

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Speaker 3: in Atlanta. So I can tell you straight out of

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Speaker 3: the gate, I had the best training there was. So

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Speaker 3: I had real victims called the hotline several times. You

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Speaker 3: would have somebody actually come in and then they would

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Speaker 3: call us down to the emergency room. So we went

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Speaker 3: with them through the entire rate kit, the process of

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Speaker 3: being interviewed. We wrote reports. Sometimes the victim might only

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Speaker 3: want to talk to us, so the detective would rely

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Speaker 3: on us greatly. Before you know, he got in there

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Speaker 3: and was able to really interview her his way. So

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Speaker 3: I can tell you without question, it's some of the

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Speaker 3: best training I've ever had to this day.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of a heavy thing to do as one

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Speaker 2: of your first jobs as an eighteen year old, right

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Speaker 2: is dealing with rape victims and all was that were

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Speaker 2: you when you started working in that field where you

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Speaker 2: almost a little shocked at what was really going.

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Speaker 5: On in reality when you learn, oh, honey, crimes shocked Listen,

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Speaker 5: just walking through the emergency room, you learn so much

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Speaker 5: like that would be somebody stabbed with a pitchfork, somebody

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Speaker 5: with the knife steal in their neck.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you just you can't even believe, like, you

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Speaker 3: know how some t people will call any job in

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Speaker 3: law enforcement the show. Yeah maybe I was center stage,

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Speaker 3: there's no doubt. And then I was able to come

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Speaker 3: home and I could, you know, have all these fantastic stories.

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Speaker 3: And then you know, go to school the next day,

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Speaker 3: and while everybody else was, you know, getting a tutor

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Speaker 3: in algebra, I was like, man, this guy was stabbed

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Speaker 3: with a pitchfork. He had three perfect holes in his jams.

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Speaker 3: You know, they were all spewing it at the same time.

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Speaker 3: That was so much better than algebra to me, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was great.

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Speaker 2: I love that. So so then you decided that you

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Speaker 2: were gonna did you go to college right from high

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Speaker 2: schools where you did okay? And that's what was your

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Speaker 2: major when you got your bachelor's degree, criminal justice, So

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Speaker 2: you just knew right away. And so when you go

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Speaker 2: for criminal justice, does that mean you're going to be

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Speaker 2: a cop or what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: Exacty you can do anything. Police, courts, corrections is going

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Speaker 3: to prepare you for all of it. So if you

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Speaker 3: want to go into probation or law enforcement or working

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Speaker 3: in the court, somehow you can do all of it,

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Speaker 3: you know. But I always worked while I was in school,

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Speaker 3: so really technically I went to school part time, like

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Speaker 3: I didn't always go in the summer, and I didn't

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Speaker 3: always take a full load because I was working full

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Speaker 3: time somewhere. And again, I always thought it was something

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Speaker 3: that was going to benefit me later down the road.

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Speaker 3: So I worked as a store detective at a major mall,

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Speaker 3: at a major store and just had the time of

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Speaker 3: my life doing that. At the same time working at

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Speaker 3: the crisis center. And so I would do internships that

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Speaker 3: you know, most people but when they go to college,

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Speaker 3: they do one. I did like twenty, you know, because

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Speaker 3: I wanted to see all of it. I wanted to

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Speaker 3: work for corrections. I wanted to see what probation was about.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to see what the fees were about. So

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Speaker 3: I had a great time.

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Speaker 2: That's cool. It's like you almost made your own internship

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Speaker 2: in a.

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Speaker 3: Way, that's absolutely And then people would tell me, like

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Speaker 3: my advisors, of like, you already have the internship, You're

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Speaker 3: already done. I know, but this seems really interesting. I

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Speaker 3: want to see what it is because I didn't want

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Speaker 3: to just be locked in and boxed into one thing.

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Speaker 3: And you know, back then people would sometimes get into

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Speaker 3: auto theft. They might spend twenty years there. It's unusual now,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't back then. But I didn't want to

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Speaker 3: do one thing for twenty years. I wanted to sample

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Speaker 3: a little bit of all of it because one I

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Speaker 3: found it more interesting, and two I thought all of

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Speaker 3: these things are going to bleed together anyone, So it's

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Speaker 3: important to me to have a little bit of something.

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Speaker 3: And then the other thing that happens from that that

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Speaker 3: I will tell you was the greatest in a fit

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Speaker 3: that I ever had. Becomes your rolodex or nowadays your phone.

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Speaker 3: You know, having these people that you know on the

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Speaker 3: pro board, like you can get them on the phone,

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Speaker 3: people that you know are in burglary or auto theft

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Speaker 3: or juvenile crimes. I mean, you can get these folks

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Speaker 3: on the phone, and to me, that's when things start

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Speaker 3: to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's excellent networking that you've done, for sure,

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Speaker 2: which is why you are here where you're at today.

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Speaker 2: So you're doing all these your own internship. And when

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Speaker 2: did you I mean I know that you were doing

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Speaker 2: you were working with rape victims, but when did you

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Speaker 2: start going on crime scenes of people who were murdered?

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Speaker 3: In the early nineties, I worked for the Crime Commission

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Speaker 3: and I was assigned to the Atlanta Police Department and

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Speaker 3: ultimately then assigned to what they called Operational weedon Seed.

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Speaker 3: So Operational weedon Seed was in Zone three, Honey, the

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Speaker 3: most violent, most run down. Just everybody was broke, everybody

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Speaker 3: was mad. Everybody had, you know, hookers and drug dealers

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Speaker 3: in their front yard. I mean, it was just that's

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Speaker 3: what it was. And so they put a group of

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Speaker 3: us together and we were supposed to go in and

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Speaker 3: weed out the bad and seed in the good. And

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Speaker 3: we spent eight years doing that and I had the

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Speaker 3: time of my life. It was fantastic. I'm all about

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Speaker 3: community police in any way, and that gave us a

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Speaker 3: chance to really see, if we get in a community

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Speaker 3: and do everything we can to help everybody, is it

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Speaker 3: going to.

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Speaker 2: Make a difference? And it did. And when you were

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Speaker 2: doing that, was there because crime scene investigation is such

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Speaker 2: a broad thing, there's so many different things you could

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Speaker 2: do within that field. Was there any And I'm sure

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Speaker 2: just knowing you that you did out all of them,

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Speaker 2: because that's just how your brain works. Was there any

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Speaker 2: particular one that like part of it that you thought

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Speaker 2: was really really awesome?

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Speaker 3: Everything was awesome to me. And here's the thing. When

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Speaker 3: you spend time watching Hill Street Blues or the Rookies

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Speaker 3: or Policewoman and then you're actually seeing this in action,

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Speaker 3: you just feel like you're sun. You know, you're a

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Speaker 3: part of something so spasceral, but you're around these people

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Speaker 3: that are extraordinary. So again you've all heard it, but

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Speaker 3: when you're watching these people that run toward the gunfire

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Speaker 3: and that are helping this little child, and that are

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Speaker 3: helping this young kid and helping this elderly woman, those

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Speaker 3: are the people you want to spend time with because

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Speaker 3: they're just magnificent people. And when I was assigned to

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Speaker 3: the Major Case Division, listen, I preach this, and I

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Speaker 3: want everybody to hear me. I love being educated, I

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Speaker 3: love being trained, But do not discount luck. Luck is

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Speaker 3: a real thing and it can be one of the

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Speaker 3: greatest things that happens in your career. Well, I got

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Speaker 3: real lucky because the Major Case Division. The prosecutor that

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Speaker 3: was a sign to us was Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: That's it, that's awesome. I was actually going to ask

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Speaker 2: you how how you met her? Because I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you know this, but like, if anyone ever asked

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Speaker 2: me if you had one person on your list that

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Speaker 2: was a famous person that you could meet, who would

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Speaker 2: it be? And I'm always like, Nancy Grace, I don't

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Speaker 2: I don't want to meet any famous actresses or actors.

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Speaker 2: But I just I my my daughter and I who

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Speaker 2: who is my co host on Mother Knows Death? We

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Speaker 2: we've been watching her together since she since Maria was

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Speaker 2: a little kid and I was a teenager, Like, we

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Speaker 2: just like her.

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Speaker 3: Let me tell you something. You're not going to be disappointed.

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Speaker 3: You're not and crime con Let's make that happen.

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Speaker 2: Let's make it happen. Oh my god, that would that

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Speaker 2: would be a dream.

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Speaker 3: You can count on that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I already I already know that we're going to

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Speaker 2: be having dinner or something together. So I'm like, let's

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Speaker 2: let's do this perfect. Perfect. So you you became interested

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Speaker 2: in in cold cases kind of early on in your career.

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Speaker 2: Can you can you describe to the listeners what a

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Speaker 2: cold case is just for people that are unfamiliar with

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Speaker 2: that term.

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Speaker 3: Sure, the most accepted definition would be a case that's

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Speaker 3: three or more years old, with no new leads, no

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Speaker 3: new witnesses coming forward, no new tips. Nothing is just stalled.

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Speaker 3: And if you have exhausted every avenue that you know

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Speaker 3: in that case is three, four, five, six, twenty fifty

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Speaker 3: years old.

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Speaker 2: That's a cold case. And what was it about cold

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Speaker 2: cases that piqued your interest.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's got to be the hardest to solve. So

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Speaker 3: if you're gonna, if you're gonna be on the dance floor,

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Speaker 3: let's dance baby, right. And so we got an opportunity

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Speaker 3: not only to work some of these cases, but you

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Speaker 3: go back to that rolodex, right, And this is where

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Speaker 3: again luck and preparation kind of collide, which is a

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Speaker 3: fantastic thing. But if you have a job where you

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Speaker 3: can literally call the best people in the world to

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Speaker 3: help you and they will willingly do it, you're gonna

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Speaker 3: get some stuff done. And I will tell you and

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Speaker 3: your listeners, in over twenty years of working cold cases,

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Speaker 3: I have never called anybody myself now and had them

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Speaker 3: tell me no, not once. So those are the caliber

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Speaker 3: of people you're talking about, whether it's Nancy Grace or

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Speaker 3: doctor Laura Pedler, marine O'Connell, Francy Haggs, Paul Holes. You

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Speaker 3: can just call them and they'll say, yeah, i'll help you.

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Speaker 3: I'll take a look at it. So if I call

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Speaker 3: Marine O'Connell and I'm like, Marine, I'm just stuck. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what I'm looking at. I don't know what

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Speaker 3: I've missed, she'll say, hey, i'll call you back in

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Speaker 3: five minutes, or she'll say let's walk through it together,

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Speaker 3: and then she'll give me advice. Paul Holes will do

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Speaker 3: the same thing. Jim CLEMENTI will do the same thing.

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Speaker 3: Francy Hay will do the same thing.

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Speaker 2: I love that because it just shows that all of

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Speaker 2: these people have such a strong passion for what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: I have similar things happen to me sometimes on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Somebody will send me an autopsy report and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: so and so my mom died. Can you just look

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Speaker 2: at it and explain it to me? And I always

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Speaker 2: want to do it. I just, of course want to,

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Speaker 2: of course, But.

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Speaker 3: What a gift you are if they're having trouble accepting

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Speaker 3: whatever the death was right, and you can walk them

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Speaker 3: through anything or explain Petikia, They're gonna sleep better now

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Speaker 3: they know they have something definitive from you. You have

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Speaker 3: no skin in the game, you don't have a reason

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Speaker 3: to say something that didn't accurate. So for you to

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Speaker 3: take the time to do that to me again extraordinary.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I'm talking about. You don't go, well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I can look at it for a thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I would never do that.

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Speaker 3: And the thing is, that's what it's say in a gift,

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Speaker 3: a gift.

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Speaker 2: Like That's one of the things that I learned working

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Speaker 2: in the hospital, all of these because I used to

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Speaker 2: deal with the deaths in the hospital and the patients

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Speaker 2: would call and they would they they didn't even always

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Speaker 2: want an autopsy. They just wanted to know how their

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Speaker 2: family member died. And I couldn't believe that nobody sat

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Speaker 2: them down and just explained to them what happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in their terms, not in medical terms, just like talking

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Speaker 2: to someone like their regulars and you know, yep, correct.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right.

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Speaker 2: So twenty years ago you started the Cold Case Investigative

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Speaker 2: Research Institute, which is so cool that you started this. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about this institute

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Speaker 2: and the types of things that you do there. Sure.

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Speaker 3: So I was teaching college at that time as my

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Speaker 3: part time job, and I had students from six pm

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Speaker 3: to ten pm. Well, you know, when you give folks

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Speaker 3: that have already worked all day a break at eight o'clock,

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Speaker 3: they're not coming back. So I was sitting there after

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Speaker 3: two hours agoing, well, that was a mistake, you know.

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Speaker 3: So I thought, how can I engage them and get

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Speaker 3: them excited about working on something for four hours after

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Speaker 3: they've already been at work? Because Willie had class on

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Speaker 3: Tuesday at Thursday nights, so at that time I was

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Speaker 3: working for d Stewart, the sheriff, and running his cold

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Speaker 3: case stuff. And I said, Sheriff, can I take one

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Speaker 3: of our cases to my class, redact everything, but literally

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Speaker 3: build them a murder box and let them work along

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Speaker 3: that case through everything we're going to go through with

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Speaker 3: their criminal investigation class. He said, yeah, I like the idea,

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Speaker 3: and he said, and maybe they'll come up with something.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I did. So the very first night

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Speaker 3: that I took the box, I just dropped it in

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Speaker 3: the middle of the room at you know, six o'clock,

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Speaker 3: and I said, okay, this is your case.

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Speaker 2: Get to work, girl. I had to throw.

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Speaker 3: Them out at midnight and I'm like, I am owned

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Speaker 3: to something. So I had a real good buddy at

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Speaker 3: Faultner University and a real good buddy at our university, Montgomery.

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Speaker 3: So I called them and I said, look if your

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Speaker 3: students will do the same case, because lou Harris was

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Speaker 3: a former FBI profiler and Linda Wright worked in security.

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Speaker 3: And I said, if y'all look at it completely different,

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Speaker 3: completely different set of students and we come up with

365
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Speaker 3: the same suspect independently, I would put my career on it.

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Speaker 3: And that was the start of the Cold Case Investigative

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Speaker 3: Research Institute, which we took that and then just matriculated

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Speaker 3: it into a nonprofit and added colleges and universities and experts,

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Speaker 3: and so today we have thirty five colleges and institutions

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Speaker 3: at about six hundred experts that we can draw from.

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Speaker 2: So so you say, because I did have a question

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Speaker 2: about this, so you say you've redacted, So what do

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Speaker 2: you take away, like their name and all any kind

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Speaker 2: of like irtifying factors.

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Speaker 3: Yes, name addresses things like that, right.

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Speaker 2: And what about the rest of the case. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know that most autopsy reports are public anyway, the

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Speaker 2: photos and stuff too, Like you could show all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: I showed them everything.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome. Of course they didn't leave till midnight, because.

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Speaker 3: It's exactly because just like me, I mean, I was

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Speaker 3: kind of understanding exactly what was happening, because again, that

383
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Speaker 3: was a seventeen year old me at grade. I'm watching it,

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Speaker 3: I'm watching the circus, and I'm loving it. Well, this

385
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 3: is real. This is not anything Because I would do

386
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Speaker 3: mock crime scenes and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's just not the same.

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Speaker 3: It's not the same thing. So this was literally two

389
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Speaker 3: thousand and four, and there was no other colleges that

390
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Speaker 3: I knew about doing anything close to this. I had

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Speaker 3: people like doctor Henry Lee, I mean some major major

392
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Speaker 3: players saying, hey, think.

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Speaker 2: About this, do it this way.

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Speaker 3: Because at the time he only used graduate students, and

395
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Speaker 3: the University of Tennessee Body Farm used graduate students. I

396
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 3: was using undergrad that were going to school part time,

397
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Speaker 3: and they were killing it. Awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you don't have to you don't have

399
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Speaker 2: to be in grade school to be able to figure

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Speaker 2: some of this stuff out.

401
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Speaker 3: Right. No, And I used to say it all the time,

402
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 3: anybody can solve a cold case. And I had a

403
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Speaker 3: federal person that I respected. That was really challenging me,

404
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 3: and he was like, this is not going to work out.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't make any sense. Not everybody can do it. You're

406
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 3: talking about somebody with no training, no experience. And I said, well,

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Speaker 3: I noticed the other day you were putting up some

408
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Speaker 3: posters and you were asking the general public for some help.

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Speaker 3: So you must think somebody out there might get help you. Well,

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Speaker 3: you take somebody and you got let's say, fifty people

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Speaker 3: in a room. How many vocations and advocations are you

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Speaker 3: talking about? So I don't read music, I don't speak

413
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Speaker 3: a foreign language. I don't I couldn't tell you one

414
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 3: tattoo necessarily from another, but there are people that do.

415
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 3: And so if you have somebody with a really unique tattoo,

416
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 3: and that person can tell you, oh my gosh, that

417
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 3: is this type of ink that is generally done in

418
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 3: California with that kind of lettering, or this is a coyfish,

419
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: which only about five people can do, ones in Las Vegas,

420
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 3: ones in Atlanta. Whatever, they're giving you information you don't have,

421
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Speaker 3: and it's a beautiful thing. So anybody can help solve

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Speaker 3: a cold case. Anybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that theory is great because just

424
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: to be I feel like, to be a good leader anyway,

425
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 2: you have to just have, like you said, this rolodex

426
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: of people to because you can't possibly even if you're

427
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 2: the best, you can't be that good and you just

428
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 2: can't know everything. But you could know who to call

429
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 2: or who to ask, and then that makes you really good.

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Speaker 2: That's my opinion anyway, that's my opinion too.

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Speaker 3: And I know when they were younger, my children would

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Speaker 3: laugh when they would hear me say this, because I

433
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 3: would say it in a speech or whatever, and they

434
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: would get so tickled about it. But I want to

435
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 3: be the dumbest person in the room.

436
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 2: If I'm not.

437
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: We have limitations, you know, things about autopsies. I don't

438
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: know why in the world would I'm not calling it.

439
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 3: Why would I not say, look, this is an autopsy

440
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 3: from seventy six. I don't even understand the you know

441
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: verbage he's using. You're gonna be able to tell me

442
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: that's great, that's how it should work.

443
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with you. I just let I

444
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: think people let their ego get in oway sometimes for sure,

445
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 2: so have you. And I think this is so cool

446
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: that you started this so long ago, because now, I

447
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: mean even some people on YouTube and stuff that aren't

448
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: really crime seen people at all. They just seem like

449
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: regular people have ideas about certain cases and you listen

450
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: and you're kind of like, that's kind of that could

451
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 2: be a thing. You know, Yeah, I'm pretty good. So

452
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: how so how has that changed since since the internet started?

453
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: Because clearly twenty years ago there was not much of

454
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: what there is today. Obviously with the TikTok and the

455
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 2: YouTube and everything videos and true crime is more. I

456
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: feel like it's just way more blown up now than

457
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: it was twenty years ago, as far as just like

458
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: everybody being obsessed with it. Sure, how have things changed

459
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: for you? Have you had more people wanting to be

460
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 2: a part of the Cold Case Institute? That's cool?

461
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: Yes, And I've also had people call and say, hey,

462
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: I want to start my own great. I will give

463
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: you our playbook whatever you like, take it. If you

464
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: don't like it, don't use it. But I'll give you

465
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: an example of how it's changed. Way back, this supposed

466
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 3: to have been two thousand and five, I got a

467
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 3: letter from a lady that was ninety eight years old,

468
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: and she wanted to give me some advice on the

469
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: Chandra Levy case.

470
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: It was brilliant.

471
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 3: And she's like, I've just been a housewife and a

472
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: mother and now I'm a great grandmother. I don't have

473
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 3: any training or anything. I thought she was fat al.

474
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: I thought it was excellent. But that took somebody sitting down,

475
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: finding an address, write in a letter, go into the mailbox,

476
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 3: you know, that kind of thing. Most people don't do that.

477
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 3: But with the Internet, they don't have to. They can

478
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: send me a quick im right. They don't even have

479
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 3: to research an address or anything.

480
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: It's going to be right there.

481
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 3: They can message me. So I get a ton more

482
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 3: advice and information in theories than I have ever gotten,

483
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 3: and it only gets better. You know.

484
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: It's cool because people all people think differently, and you

485
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: don't need to You don't necessarily need to be educated.

486
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: You just need something. Even somebody can bring up a

487
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: question that might spark something else in your mind to

488
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I that's something I overlooked. I didn't

489
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: even think about that.

490
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: Sure, sure, but you know, and everybody has different backgrounds

491
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 3: and that is so important to let that factor in.

492
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: Like we were working a case and everybody thought that

493
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 3: a married man had murdered this person, but the victim

494
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: was somebody this person was having an affair with. Well,

495
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 3: we're all, you know, bantering back and forth, and at

496
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 3: this time in the war room, it was predominantly women.

497
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: And finally one of them, one of the male students,

498
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: spoke up and he's like, Mac, why would he kill

499
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: a side piece? He didn't care about her like that?

500
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 2: Well, I had never.

501
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 3: Even heard the term sidepiece. What. But he's a man

502
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: that's maybe played around a little bit, and so he

503
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: was trying to give his experience, like, it's not that

504
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: serious with her. He said, I'm telling you it's not.

505
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 3: He's probably before his wife's not gonna be even all

506
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 3: that shocked. It's not like he's gonna, you know, bust

507
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 3: up his family life. So again, you just have different

508
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 3: people that can can add and you know, I'll often

509
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: tell people, you know, it was a school teacher that

510
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: cracked the first Zodiac code.

511
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah that you know what I mean?

512
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was a Yeah, it was a

513
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 3: truck driver that found the DC sniper. So people of

514
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 3: all walks alive, every advocation of vocation, hobby, job, they

515
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 3: can help.

516
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: And so for your at your research, institute. Can is

517
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: it just for people in the profession or can regular

518
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: people be a part of your can be a part

519
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: of it too.

520
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 3: The short answer is yes, they can. We need experts, obviously,

521
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: but it depends on what your expertise is. It doesn't

522
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: have to be criminal justice. Hair I've got a no

523
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: time expert. I've got an expert from the railroad. I've

524
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 3: got an expert in motorcycles. Because again, when you start

525
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 3: dealing with one percenters, both of those things are going

526
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 3: to come into play. I need somebody that can explain

527
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 3: a tattoo to me with great authority. I need somebody

528
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 3: that can explain, Hey, you're a hairdresser, but everybody says

529
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: you're gonna see domestic violence before somebody else will. She

530
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 3: may confide in you when she's not confided to anybody else.

531
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: So all of these things come into play, all of

532
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: these things build on each other, and it takes all

533
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 3: of this sometimes.

534
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: That's so cool. I love I love this well rounded

535
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: way you have of investigating things. It just makes total sense. Well,

536
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 2: thank you, I think it really does. Like it. It

537
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: reminds me of something silly. At the hospital we had

538
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: the Morgori done and some manager like designed the morg

539
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: for us. So we went in the first day and

540
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: they revealed it to us and and we're like, yeah,

541
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: clearly you've never done an autopsy before, Like why are

542
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 2: you doing this right? So instead of asking like the

543
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: experts that did the autopsies every day, sometimes you know,

544
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: the people overlook that. And I think that that's really

545
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: important and that's why you're successful because you see that

546
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: I see I see that you have some of your

547
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: family members at volunteering at your institute. And you have

548
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: four sisters, which God that that in itself is a challenge,

549
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: but they all volunteer there, and I love that. Are

550
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: they in Are they into the same stuff as you,

551
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: because obviously they were sitting in the car with mom

552
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: listening to all these stories.

553
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: Right. Two are retired teachers and two are nurses.

554
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: That's cool.

555
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: So I mean I think everybody is in, you know,

556
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 3: a job where we want to help people. That's a

557
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: common theme. I think they're older than me, and in

558
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: case they're listening, let's have to get that out, just

559
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: get that dig in. They're elderly, and so they were

560
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: gonna volunteer whether I want or to or not.

561
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: But anyway.

562
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: They have such a command of understanding people. And I

563
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: say this all the time about teachers, but teachers are profilers.

564
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: They see so many kids in the first five minutes.

565
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: They know who their troublemaker is gonna be. They know

566
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: who the athlete is, they know who the shy one is,

567
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: they know the one that is nice to your face.

568
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: But it's still going to be a problem to other kids.

569
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: You know, they're gonna know the smart one, all that

570
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 3: sort of stuff, but they know it quickly and they're

571
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: never hardly wrong. Rarely are you going to hear a

572
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: teacher say, man, I was wrong about that kid. That

573
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 3: is almost never true, right. So the two sisters that

574
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 3: I have, one was a pe teacher before she retired

575
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: and one was a science teacher. So they have those

576
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 3: backgrounds that when they bring and they're looking at a case,

577
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 3: it's from different angles. Their parents, their spouses, they are sisters,

578
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: you know, their aunts, so they have different ways to

579
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: look at a case.

580
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: So I'll give you a true example.

581
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 3: I was called by the sheriff regarding Susan Smith and

582
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: he said, do you think you can come up? And

583
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 3: I said, y'all, I can come up, no problem. I

584
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 3: did not have children at the time. I had nieces

585
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: and nephews that I loved crazy good, but they weren't mine,

586
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: so to speak. So I was packing. So I wanted

587
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: to call two of my sisters real quick and just say, look,

588
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: I'm headed out of town. I'll be back by Monday whatever.

589
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: So I called Trayan and I said, this is what's

590
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 3: going on. This woman. She was carjacked. It's horrible. The

591
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: guy put a gun in her face. She got out

592
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: of the car. He jumped in the car and drove off.

593
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: She said, huh, she said, you're telling me he put

594
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: a gun in her face and she got out of

595
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: the car. I said, yes, it was horrible. I'm sure

596
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 3: it was terribly frightening. She said, I'm telling you right now,

597
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 3: sixth grade teacher, now, sixth grade teacher, never been in

598
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: a physical fight, not somebody that you would consider super brave,

599
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. She said, I'm telling you,

600
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 3: if my children were in that car, I wouldn't have

601
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 3: got out. He would have had to shoot me right there.

602
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: And I was like, really, okay. Hung up from her.

603
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: Called Charlene. I said, hey, i'm packing, I'm going down town.

604
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 3: I'll be back by Monday. What's going on. Well, they've

605
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 3: got this woman. She was carjacked. It was horrible. This

606
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 3: guy put a gun in her face. She got out

607
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 3: of the car, jumped to the car, and drove off

608
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: with the children in the back seat. Charline said, there

609
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 3: ain't no way I'd have got out of that car.

610
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: And at the time, she wasn't a nurse. Shit, she

611
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 3: was a flight attendant. So now I'm like, I've got

612
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 3: a sixth grade teacher and a flight attendant telling me

613
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: they wouldn't have got out of the car. First thing

614
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: they said. So I called the sheriff back and I said,

615
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 3: I'm just telling.

616
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: You you need.

617
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 3: To keep her talking. She might have had something to

618
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: do with it.

619
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: And he said, that's amazing.

620
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: Well, I'm saying to you because you can't discount what

621
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: these people are saying. And to your point, no training,

622
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 3: not in the business. But they knew as a mama.

623
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: So he said to me, he said, we're already thinking

624
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 3: that way. So they already knew something was not right

625
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 3: because too many people, right, we're saying the same thing,

626
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: I assume because by the time I talked to him again,

627
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 3: he was he was on the right track. And of

628
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: course we know the ending.

629
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: It's it's funny because last night I went out with

630
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: one of my kids, my my eleven year old, and

631
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: we've been having a lot of car jocks in our

632
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: area recently, and I just for some reason was thinking like,

633
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: oh my god, like what if that happened? And I thought,

634
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: I just was like I would I would get shot

635
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: in the face, Like I would not get out of

636
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: this damn car, like it just would, you know. I

637
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: just try to think about, like what would you do

638
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: in that situation? And I'm like, I, of course any

639
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: mother would say that.

640
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: So but it's weird when that mama thing kicks in.

641
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, your adult career looking at death like this,

642
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: you've seen every way somebody could die just about but

643
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: yet you're sitting there going shoot me in the face.

644
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah when it comes to my kid of course.

645
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

646
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: Now, I just I just would never, like I would

647
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: fight till the very end. I mean, what do you

648
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: you know? So that's how you know that something's up.

649
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: But you hear I hear about that stuff too, about

650
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: people because my husband's a firefighter, and sometimes you hear

651
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: stories of like the mom ran out and the kid's

652
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: still in the house, and I'm like, no, that just

653
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: that wouldn't happen. And he's like, you don't understand if

654
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: you were in a fire, and I'm like I try

655
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: to like listen to him and think, okay, well, like

656
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: he's been in a fire. I haven't, but but no,

657
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, that I don't think so I just wouldn't.

658
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you're wrong.

659
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 3: It's certainly hard to fathom leaving know when they're in.

660
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: The house exactly, just like I just can't. I just

661
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 2: can't think that it could ever happen, honestly, right, no

662
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: matter what he says. This episode is brought to you

663
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: by my book, Nicole and Jemmy's Anatomy. Do you have

664
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 2: my book yet? If not, you better get it because

665
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 2: it's really awesome. It is an A through Z journey

666
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 2: of the human body and everything that could go wrong

667
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 2: with it. Get it now at the doorramodern dot Com

668
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: slash book. So. I know that you said that you

669
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: were a teacher, and that story relates to me so

670
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: much because when I was started college, I went to

671
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: those horrible, you know, six to ten o'clock classes in

672
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 2: my class certainly was not as entertaining as yours. I'll

673
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: tell you that. But you also wrote a textbook on

674
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: cold cases too, called Cold Case Pathways to Justice. You

675
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: were a co author on that book. It's so, is

676
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: that a textbook that you used for criminal justice students? Yes?

677
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 3: So, when the Insitante first started, I can't thinking, man,

678
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 3: why is there not a textbook that would help me

679
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: teach this so that I didn't have to go back

680
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 3: and keep repeating things? So like a timeline, for example,

681
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 3: Once you teach them how to do a timeline, I

682
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 3: want them just to roll with it. But I would

683
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 3: sometimes have to stop and go back if somebody misclass,

684
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 3: or stop and explain why you don't start the timeline

685
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 3: here you start in the middle. You know you're doing

686
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: the same thing over and over and over. Or how

687
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 3: to read it an autopsy or whatever it might be.

688
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: How to research old newspapers and really understand it, or

689
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 3: for this generation, how to recursive? Lord help us God, Okay,

690
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 3: So I thought, why is there not a textbook where

691
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 3: there just wasn't one conducive for what I wanted? So

692
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: my real good buddy Betsy Ramsey again trying not to

693
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 3: do anything alone, y'all, Betsy has written a ton of books.

694
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 3: She's smart and she types really quick, so I thought

695
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 3: she'll be good. So me and Betsy decided that was

696
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 3: what we were going to do to help the institute.

697
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 3: So these students actually.

698
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: Had a book FA could utilize.

699
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: So that's how that happened.

700
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 2: That that's really cool. I love that you are teaching

701
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: students too. You're just doing so much. It's just great

702
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: for this whole entire field. At one point in your

703
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: career you were the director, like you just have. I

704
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: just keep naming off all these amazing accomplishments you have.

705
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: You're a director of Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

706
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: Wow, you went way back.

707
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I really am interested in this because I

708
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: have a particular distaste for people who who drive, who

709
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: drink and drive, It just really annoys the shit out

710
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: of me. And a mother knows death. So we we

711
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: we've talked about a couple cases that have been in

712
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: the news, and but before we get into those cases,

713
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 2: I just want to talk to you about two particular cases,

714
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: just because so almost half of traffic deaths are caused

715
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: by drunk drivers. It's it's just a completely avoidable thing.

716
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 2: And in the US thirty seven people approximately die every

717
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: single day just from drunk drivers. It's just it's a

718
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: staggering number. Can you tell us a little bit about

719
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 2: the organization of Mothers Against Drunk Driving and how you

720
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: got involved with that.

721
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 3: Well, here's what happened. When I was five. My mom

722
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 3: was head on by a truck driver. Oh my god.

723
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 3: And I was in the car with her, and she

724
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: was hit head on and then her car slammed into

725
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: a telephone pole, which cracked in half and fell over

726
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: our convertible, and there was live wires down everywhere, so

727
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 3: all the people around that were trying to stop and

728
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 3: help couldn't come to her to help her because the

729
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: live wires. So I remember the fire department. They were just,

730
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 3: of course extraordinary, like they always are. And so fast

731
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: forward nineteen ninety six. I was in charge of the

732
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 3: Olympic Crisis Response team, which would not have been a

733
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 3: big deal except we had a ball. So the way

734
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: we worked that bombing Mother's against her Driving called and said, hey,

735
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 3: can you put together a statewide plan for us like

736
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 3: you did for the Olympics and all the venues across

737
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 3: the state of Georgia. And I said yes, So that's

738
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 3: how I got involved with MAD for a short period

739
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: of time, but a fantastic organization. I mean, you can't

740
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 3: even say enough what Candy Lightner did. I mean, she

741
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 3: had an idea, she did it. She had the you know,

742
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: blood alcohol limit, she lowered it again to you know,

743
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 3: point oh eight. She has saved Lord knows how many people.

744
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 3: And I agree with you. I mean, I mean, I'm

745
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 3: a drinker, you know, not a drinker per se. You

746
00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 3: know that sounded bad. Hold on a minute, My kids

747
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 3: would die laughing if they already say that. But I mean,

748
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 3: I love the margarita here and there, glass of wine

749
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 3: here and there, but there's no excuse getting in that car.

750
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 3: There's just not, especially nowadays with Uber and all the

751
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: different ride shares. And you know, everybody knows the designated driver.

752
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: Everybody should have one person in their friendship group that

753
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 3: just doesn't drink. So you've got that designated driver built in.

754
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: But I'm the d D.

755
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 3: But I mean that's beautiful, and that's what I'm saying it.

756
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 3: You know, crime con me and Nancy will use you.

757
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: I definitely will, like I just I and I I'm

758
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: not I'm not against it. Well, I'm against drinking and

759
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: driving obviously, I just you're just gonna think that sounds ridiculous.

760
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: I just don't like the way it tastes. I think

761
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: it tastes like hairspray. I just don't. I can't. I

762
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: try to make myself like it, like I just like it.

763
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: But you know, you again, what you to do for

764
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 3: a living. And you can walk through any hospital and

765
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: ask any emergency room or trauma ne hers. How many

766
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 3: people do you see that alcohol was a factor, not

767
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: just driving, but falling off of crap, hurting yourself, you

768
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 3: know what I mean? Alcohol is probably responsible for seventy

769
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 3: percent of the folks that are in a hospital any

770
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 3: given time.

771
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And not to mention just in pathology with

772
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 2: between smoking and drinking, It's like we would have nothing

773
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 2: nothing to look at well day seeing such a closet disease.

774
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 2: I used to do all the liver ex plants that

775
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: came out when people were getting transplants from alcoholicsirrhosis, and

776
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: just I've done a ton of autopsies on it. Just

777
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: the heart disease is associated with it and everything, and

778
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,479
Speaker 2: I've seen it firsthand, and I don't know, I'm sure

779
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 2: that that has something to do with me not being

780
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: into it.

781
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 3: Either, Yep, yep.

782
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 2: So on the news we talked about a few months ago,

783
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes's dad, he was arrested on his third DUI charge.

784
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 3: Third?

785
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: How common is it for people to just have three

786
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: d UI charges and still be allowed to drive? Like, what,

787
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: what's the problem?

788
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 3: I think, Nancy Grayson, I covered a show where a

789
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 3: guy had like twenty something. I don't understand. I don't

790
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: care who your son is. I don't care if the

791
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 3: super Bowl is involved. They should take his license. He

792
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 3: is going to kill somebody or himself. He clearly has

793
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 3: a problem, because here's the deal. He could go to

794
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,479
Speaker 3: any stadium, who would give him a ride home?

795
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: Everyone there, and I could be in the car with

796
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes's dad, all yeah, exactly all day long.

797
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 3: I will get you home, sir. But again he's alone,

798
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 3: and he's over the legal limit. He has a problem,

799
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 3: he does. And I mean to me, this is a

800
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 3: crown that is one hundred percent preventable.

801
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: One what is this you? I do remember you talking

802
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 2: with Nancy Grace about this that there's there's this theory

803
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: that there's been studies done that even though a person have,

804
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: So he's been pulled over only three times and caught.

805
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 2: But how how many times? Yeah, has a person drank

806
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 2: before and drove before getting caught? What's that number?

807
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 3: Well, let me just tell you something. How many spading tickets?

808
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 3: Everybody in your audience? How many spading tickets have you had?

809
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 2: One? Five man? Me maybe one? My husband maybe fifty one.

810
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 2: But he drives like he's going to a fire all

811
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 2: the time, so you know all the time.

812
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: So you've had one speeding ticket? How many times have

813
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: you sped in your owne?

814
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah?

815
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: Like every day?

816
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: There you go, there's no different. So these folks are like, oh,

817
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 3: I've only had three. Oh, I've only had five. And

818
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 3: you hear people say the same thing. Oh I draw

819
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 3: better when I'm drunk. They say these things. It's just

820
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 3: so asinine. And then my favorite is, well I'll just

821
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 3: have a cup of coffee and then I'll be okay. Okay, coffee,

822
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 3: You're just gonna be awake and drunk.

823
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: Okay.

824
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 3: Coffee does not take alcohol out of your bloodstrain.

825
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't.

826
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 3: I don't know where that ever came from except cartoons

827
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 3: and TV. Oh, get a pot of coffee, they'll be okay. No,

828
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: the alcohol has got to get out of your system

829
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: the only way that he can.

830
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 2: It really makes me so mad, And especially this other

831
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 2: case that I want to talk about is this bride.

832
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: Her name was Samantha Miller. She was killed on her

833
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 2: wedding night, and her husband, her new husband of only hours,

834
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,959
Speaker 2: was injured. And the woman that killed her her name

835
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 2: was Jamie Lee com Comarowski. I believe it is. And

836
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: she was three times over the legal limit of alcohol,

837
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: and of course she lived right. This is how it

838
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 2: always works, yep, most of the time. So I don't

839
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: even know in what world this woman got out of

840
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 2: jail in his home on house arrests with an ankle bracelet.

841
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: Is this common that people just kill people in an

842
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 2: accident like this and don't even stay in jail.

843
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 3: Well, you know a lot of people do say that

844
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 3: she didn't target them, she didn't mean to do it,

845
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: and I completely understand that, but that is the risk

846
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 3: you take when you get in that car that you could. So, no,

847
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: you didn't know this bride, You didn't show up to

848
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: murder her, but that's what you did. And while you

849
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: were pouring that first drink, she was putting her wedding

850
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 3: dress home. When you were pouring that second drink, she

851
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 3: was saying her vows. When you poured the third drink,

852
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 3: she's going into the reception, you know again, another drink,

853
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 3: she's having her first dance. The next drink, she's telling

854
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 3: everybody goodbye. You're talking about somebody dying, and she's just

855
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 3: seen a room full of people who all love her

856
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 3: and are wishing her well with this person that she

857
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 3: wants to spend the rest of her life with. And

858
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 3: because of alcohol, because of your choice, I'm gonna drink tonight,

859
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get blasted. I'm not gonna stop, and then

860
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get in a car.

861
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 2: I just I just can't justify it in any way.

862
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 3: And hope there's no way to do even by it.

863
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: Like people that even say that she didn't intend to

864
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: kill them, like they they're just as bad to me,

865
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: Like what are you talking about? You're so if you

866
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 2: carry a loaded gun around and shoot people by accident,

867
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 2: that's cool, Like.

868
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's almost even scarier because if you make

869
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: somebody mad and they say I'm gonna come over to

870
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 3: your house, if you at least have a fair shot, right,

871
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 3: you're talking about somebody in a three thousand pounds vehicle

872
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 3: coming at whoever is in their path, a child cross

873
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 3: in the street, a bus full of children, a van

874
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 3: full of eildbly people, just whoever into a store, into

875
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 3: a restaurant. We've seen it all the time.

876
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 2: I know it's it just scares me so much.

877
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 3: Again, preventable.

878
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 2: All you gotta do.

879
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 3: Get drunk, stay home, get drunk, call a cab, call huber,

880
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 3: call somebody.

881
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: I can't help but think that, Like with Patrick Mahomes's dad.

882
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: And then this girl I heard, she's like a rich

883
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: kid or something. There's there's some kind of financial thing

884
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 2: behind her that's helping her get out. I'm pretty sure

885
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: she's not like a regular income person, right, I which

886
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 2: just this happened in my town actually that it was

887
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was the mayor or some

888
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: some person's kid, the president of the school board or

889
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: something something like that, Like drunk drove into a pizza

890
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: shop in our neighborhood and I heard got like a

891
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: slap on the wrist, and you know it's it's a

892
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: sidewalk where children walk all the time, and thank god

893
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 2: there were none there at the time, but that kind

894
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: of went terribly wrong, you know.

895
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: But I also think because I know Tiffany Hattish got

896
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 3: a dui in my town, and again just like Patrick

897
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 3: Mahome's dad, who would have given her a ride everybody,

898
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 3: so they don't even want that. They don't want it,

899
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: they'd rather drive. I mean, it just makes no sense.

900
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: It's really it, Really, I I don't know what to say.

901
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: I think taking the license should be automatic at your

902
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 3: third one. I don't think you should get a third

903
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 3: one and be able to drive again for at least

904
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: a period of time.

905
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of these things even after a second. Yeah,

906
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: I think one time, I'm not cool with it anytime.

907
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: But one time I actually know someone that had one

908
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 2: and that like straightened his shit out big time and

909
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 2: that will never happen again. And and I think that

910
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: that's the poor because he did lose his license for

911
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: a couple of months and it affected a lot. Oh

912
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: he's not good. So I think that, you know, I

913
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: feel like if anybody has really bad habits, and whether

914
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: it's you're cheating on somewhere, you're doing something kind of terrible.

915
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: The only way that you can really stop that is

916
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 2: if something kind of really bad that's like life changing happens,

917
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 2: so you can change your ways. I think that just

918
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: saying you're gonna do it most of the time, that

919
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 2: doesn't really pan out.

920
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 3: Yep.

921
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 2: But for those people that that doesn't work for either,

922
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: I mean they're gonna, they're gonna. He would have twenty

923
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 2: DUIs if you kept letting going. He's just clearly not

924
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: getting scared. Yep.

925
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 3: But again he's somehow a little stay in the car,

926
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 3: and so you think insurance that's gonna go scot had

927
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 3: you can even get insurance, right and then.

928
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: Sun makes forty million dollars a year.

929
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm talking about a regular person, Yeah, exactly.

930
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 3: Even the fact that he could get it is a problem.

931
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 3: No matter how rich your son is, you shouldn't be

932
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 3: able to even qualify for it at this point.

933
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 2: No, you're right, you're right, And really you're not supposed

934
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 2: to even if you could afford anything, you're not supposed

935
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: to drive without it, right yep, yep. Okay, let's talk

936
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 2: about your podcast now. In twenty twenty two, you started

937
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 2: a podcast called Zone seven. So I think I know

938
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: what you're gonna say based upon something you said earlier.

939
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 2: But what I've always wanted to know what does zone

940
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: seven mean?

941
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 3: In Atlanta, there are six police zones. So back in

942
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 3: the day before cell phones and before pagers, you know,

943
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 3: we couldn't come over the radio and say, hey, y'all,

944
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: after word, let's go meet at a bar. So we

945
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: would come over the radio and say, hey, y'all, after shift,

946
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: everybody's going to go meet at Zone seven, which we

947
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 3: knew meant Manual's tavern. So me and Nancy and Renee

948
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 3: Rogwall and you know, all the crowd, we would go

949
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 3: to Manual's tavern. And that's when you kind of really

950
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 3: learned your craft and really learned, you know, who you

951
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 3: could trust and it was going to tell you the

952
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 3: truth and it was going to help you out. And

953
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 3: that kind of became more of a way of life

954
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 3: for us. We didn't fool with everybody, you know, We

955
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 3: tended to kind of only fool with people that we

956
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 3: knew cared about us, truthfully cared about us. And so

957
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: that became not just the bar Zone seven, but my

958
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 3: zone seven, my people.

959
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 2: I love that, So it has a meaning, such a

960
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: strong meaning. And in this podcast you discussed cold cases.

961
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 2: I love your podcast. It's great. I just was listening

962
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 2: with my daughter today to the Scott Peterson one, because

963
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: you know, we're a little obsessed with that case. How

964
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: do you feel because I mean, technically there's some cases

965
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: that we keep talking about that aren't really considered cold cases,

966
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 2: like that case is closed. It's it's that's true. We fit.

967
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 2: Everybody thought that he did it. He even got convicted,

968
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: He got the death penalty at some point, which they overturned.

969
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 2: But that's that's done. So why why is it keep

970
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 2: coming back up.

971
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: This case? The first thing I thought about when this

972
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 3: latest thing happened with you know, him saying there's gonna

973
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 3: be new evidence and you know the organization trying to

974
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: help him. I thought, Lacey's mama. I mean, how much

975
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: more does this woman had to be put through?

976
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 4: Right?

977
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 2: I mean she really impacted me just the whole time,

978
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: her crying time. It's just even when I hear it

979
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: today still it just it like I just got the

980
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: chills right now thinking about it. It's just it's just

981
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:48,760
Speaker 2: so toch.

982
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 3: Just think about it. You get word from your son

983
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 3: in law that your daughter who's eight and a half

984
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 3: months pregnant is missing, that's debilitating, then he doesn't even

985
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 3: call the police. Your husband calls the police. Then you

986
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 3: find out he wasn't true to her, that he's had

987
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 3: these affairs. Well, that's got to be a punch in

988
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 3: the gut.

989
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 2: Right.

990
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 3: Then it comes pretty clear to you she's not coming home,

991
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 3: and he did it most likely. And now he's not

992
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 3: talking to you, he's not coming to the vigil, he's

993
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 3: not searching for her. I mean, all of those things

994
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 3: have to just be grotesque. Then he's arrested, and when

995
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 3: he's arrested, he has changed his appearance and has his

996
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,919
Speaker 3: brother's ID and cash money. So she's having to deal

997
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 3: with all of this betrayal on top of being petrified

998
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 3: that she can't find her daughter, then being just destroyed

999
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 3: when her daughter and grandson are dead. Right then they

1000
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 3: pop up and say, well he didn't do it, and

1001
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 3: there's gonna be this you know, court battle. Then he's

1002
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: you know, tried to have all these appeals, all these

1003
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 3: habeous corpus, everything is failed. Well, now the Innocence Project

1004
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 3: has got involved and said, oh, there's this van that

1005
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 3: nobody's ever talked about, nobody's ever said cares right, right,

1006
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 3: It's just like.

1007
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 2: I do understand that there's not really any hardcore, concrete

1008
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: evidence that they've ever found, which means that he just

1009
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 2: did stuff in a certain way to hide that, right,

1010
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 2: But you just can't ignore the way that this dude

1011
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 2: was acting like, you just can't. It's it and and

1012
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 2: you were saying on the podcast how his his mother

1013
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: in law went against every single person went against him

1014
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 2: besides like what a random sister in law or something,

1015
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 2: his best.

1016
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,839
Speaker 3: President in law, his best friends or ghosts, people from

1017
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 3: high school, people from elementary school, coworkers, Where are they?

1018
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 3: Where is one teacher? Where is one boss? Where is

1019
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 3: one best friend? Where is anybody that has been in

1020
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 3: his life for more than six months? Where are they?

1021
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 2: Does it kind of piss you off that they waste

1022
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 2: resources on something like this when there's actual sat of course,

1023
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: crimes that aren't solved that can use more resources.

1024
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 3: I try to be a glass half full person, So

1025
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 3: here's the way I try to look at it. Put

1026
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 3: all this out there that you want to Scott Peterson,

1027
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: you are teaching people that really need to understand, So

1028
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: you teach these detectives. This is why your freaking report

1029
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 3: is so important. This is why bagging tagging is so important.

1030
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 3: This is why interview skills are so important. Do not

1031
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 3: let this guy wiggle away from you. Don't let him

1032
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 3: tell you. Oh, the only reason I dyed my hair

1033
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 3: and got cash and was trying to go to Mexico

1034
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 3: is because I can't go anywhere without being recognized. I

1035
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 3: don't need ten thousand dollars because I can't go to publics.

1036
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 3: You're ridiculous.

1037
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 2: Which there's a lot of money. It's a lot of

1038
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: money now, but it certainly was a lot of money

1039
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, you know.

1040
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 3: Of course. And then you have things like the anchors.

1041
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 3: He made those anchors, but four of them can't be found. Well,

1042
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 3: we know she was weighed down on each arm, in

1043
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 3: each leg. I mean, that doesn't take a genius to

1044
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,439
Speaker 3: figure out what happened there. And then there's the hair

1045
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 3: off her head. So you've got hair from Lacey on

1046
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 3: a pair of pliers in a toolbox inside his boat. Huh,

1047
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 3: I mean, you know. And again, does any of this

1048
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 3: make somebody a murderer? No? But the best he's gonna be,

1049
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 3: the very best he's ever gonna be is a piece

1050
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: of shit. Husband, Right, that's the best he's ever gonna be.

1051
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 3: You're the guy that cheated on a girl that adored you,

1052
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 3: that was eight and a half months pregnant. You did

1053
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 3: not search for her when you knew.

1054
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: She was missing.

1055
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 3: You stood at a vigil from a distance and talked

1056
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 3: on the phone to a woman you were having an

1057
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 3: affair with prior to her going missing. That that don't

1058
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 3: make somebody a piece of crab. I don't know what

1059
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 3: the definition would be. That is the best Scott Peterson

1060
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 3: is ever gonna be. But I think he's much much

1061
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 3: worse than that.

1062
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 2: I think the cheating things like whatever men cheat, it changed,

1063
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 2: it crosses over when everyone knew that she was missing

1064
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 2: and that he wasn't helping. I'm sorry. Like even even

1065
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 2: if you cheat on someone that doesn't that doesn't mean

1066
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: you don't still have like some kind of You're married

1067
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 2: to the woman, for Christ's sakes, Like even if you

1068
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 2: hated her so bad, even if she, like you know,

1069
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 2: made you pick up your socks every day or whatever,

1070
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 2: you hated her, you any normal human would be like,

1071
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is terrible. If it terrible, genuinely

1072
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 2: a robber or whatever they think.

1073
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 3: I have heard men say, oh, that affair didn't mean

1074
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 3: anything to me, like they would never leave their wife.

1075
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 3: I've heard him say it.

1076
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, I get it.

1077
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 3: To your point. The minute their wife is missing, they

1078
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 3: do a three sixty. They're the one looking, they're the

1079
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 3: one panicked. They want her back because they do love her. Again,

1080
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 3: we didn't see that here.

1081
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's enough for me, honestly.

1082
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 3: And then look how normal people act. And then he

1083
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 3: tells everybody, I'm gonna go play golf. I'm golfing, so

1084
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 3: her sister, everybody thinks he's golfing. But then he went

1085
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 3: vision and where did they float up? So now they're

1086
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 3: trying to get us to believe is somebody else kidnapped

1087
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 3: her in this band And of all the places in California,

1088
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 3: they just happened to go where he was fishing, but

1089
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 3: nobody saw them. And they if you notice, like where

1090
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 3: the parking lot is to the water, it's a good minute,

1091
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 3: it's a good ways away. So you want me to

1092
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 3: believe they were able to do that unseen?

1093
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 2: Is it possible? I just thought of this right now

1094
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 2: that they're trying that, they're maybe thinking that he hired

1095
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 2: someone to do it and he actually didn't kill her,

1096
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 2: because that would make sense as to his actions, that

1097
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: he knew she was dead and that's why he wasn't

1098
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 2: doing anything. But at the same time, that's good, you

1099
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 2: know that maybe maybe he knew. That's because if they

1100
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: could find DNA on that truck or whatever they think

1101
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 2: they're testing, then technically he didn't say this.

1102
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 3: Let me just say this. If I hate you to

1103
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 3: kill Walt and I told you, hey, I'm going fishing

1104
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 3: at Lake Lanier and you throw Walt in Lake Lanier,

1105
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 3: I'm gonna lose my mind. So I agree with Scott's mother.

1106
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: I will quote his mother tell me Scott wasn't that stupid,

1107
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 3: or even Scott can't be that stupid?

1108
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 2: However she praised it.

1109
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: I mean, how in the world would you be that stupid?

1110
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, the whole entire thing is

1111
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: just kind of you know, he couldn't. It was planned

1112
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: out a little bit because he didn't leave behind any evidence,

1113
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 2: so it seems like he planned out something to be

1114
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 2: kind of clean with that.

1115
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: But here's the thing that's so crazy. When you start

1116
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 3: talking about Christmas Eve, you had somewhere you had to be.

1117
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 3: You had told Lacy earlier you would pick up the

1118
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 3: present for the father in law. Well, then suddenly you

1119
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 3: couldn't do that. Why got you so busy you couldn't

1120
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 3: go pick the gift up? It's little things. So there

1121
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 3: were mistakes made. We know there were more than you know,

1122
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 3: five anchors, or there were five anchors, four of them.

1123
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 3: You can't tell us where they are.

1124
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: You've got this. They can't search around where they found

1125
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 2: her body somehow. I know, I know that that's outrageous

1126
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 2: to say.

1127
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm just saying, you know what

1128
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 3: I mean, there's there's so much and a lot of

1129
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 3: it might be circumstantial. But you know, when I was

1130
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 3: talking to Laura Ingel, Laura's so fantastic and she's such

1131
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 3: a pro Oh my god. Okay, so she's always so even,

1132
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 3: and she'll bring you right back down where me and

1133
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 3: you might be sitting here going, oh, this idiot he

1134
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 3: did it. You know, we don't use words like alleged,

1135
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 3: you know. So she said to me, look, what if

1136
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 3: the blood in the van does come back to match? Lacey?

1137
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 3: I said, well, then Scott Peterson stole that vacan.

1138
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 2: It's still not hired the person that's I hired, the

1139
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 2: person involved. Soow I truly believe that.

1140
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 3: I mean that one thing would not get rid of

1141
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 3: the other folly, It just wouldn't.

1142
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 2: The thing is, though, is that there's some lawyer that

1143
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 2: wants to say that they got out of this, they

1144
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 2: got him out of this, because that will make them

1145
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 2: like the next who's the guy with Casey Anthony Jose

1146
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 2: bas Bias, Right, he'll be like this next level defense

1147
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 2: attorney that could get you out of the most obvious crime, right,

1148
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 2: same with OJ. And they're going to get it on

1149
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 2: some bullshit technicality of evidence not being logged correctly or something.

1150
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 2: I just look at it like who who cares? Like,

1151
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: let's move on to things that need actual resources.

1152
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 3: But again that's why I'm saying this should be a

1153
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 3: training for everybody. Just like OJ, you better pay a time.

1154
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 3: Do you know at the Simpson scene that there was

1155
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 3: a bloody thumb print on the back gate?

1156
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I do every on my website, I do

1157
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 2: these high profile and celebrity dis sections every week where

1158
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 2: I go through the cases in the autopsy reports and

1159
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 2: kind of write it up. And yeah, I saw that

1160
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: there was a couple mishaps with the with training. Yeah,

1161
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 2: with writing the evidence collected. But can you explain it

1162
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 2: to everybody because it's really interesting.

1163
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 3: So there was a bloody thumb print on the back gate.

1164
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 3: They noted it in the walkthrough, but they never went

1165
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 3: back and collected it. So now while we're arguing about

1166
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 3: one little speck on the bronco or one little speck

1167
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 3: on the salt, that would have been a money treat

1168
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 3: because that would have proved if that had been O. J.

1169
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 3: Simpson's thumb print, that he was there while they were bleeding.

1170
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 3: That's better than a glove, that's better than anything. But

1171
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 3: they didn't get it.

1172
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 2: I think, I mean in hindsight, because you just don't

1173
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 2: ever know what's going to happen. I think that even

1174
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 2: if you're a cop and you work in la and stuff,

1175
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 2: you're used to going to firefighters the same thing, you're

1176
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,439
Speaker 2: used to dealing with famous people just because of where

1177
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 2: you're at.

1178
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 3: Yep.

1179
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 2: But especially to some guys, he's you know, he's like

1180
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: the football player. He was the guy, and I think

1181
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 2: some people just might have got a little bit too

1182
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 2: starstructor about the grand scene of it. I mean, nothing

1183
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 2: like that has even really happened since then, that some

1184
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 2: super famous person murdered somebody like that. Right. I mean,

1185
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 2: they just walked up on this scene and it was

1186
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 2: just too much overstimulation and they screwed up because they.

1187
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 3: Probably and I think they were trying to get in

1188
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 3: touch with him because they needed to notify him. Right.

1189
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 3: But that's another clue to this whole thing, is when

1190
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 3: they notify him and he says, oh, no, you know,

1191
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 3: that's horrible what happened in Nicole.

1192
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 2: But he never asked about his.

1193
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 3: Children, Yeah, because he knew they weren't dead, because he

1194
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 3: didn't kill them. I mean there's you know, just little

1195
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 3: things that become really big things if you're really paying attention.

1196
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 3: But again, O. J. Simpson is a fantastic case study

1197
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: of what not to do.

1198
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about crime Con.

1199
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 3: All right.

1200
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to crime Con for my very first time

1201
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 2: this year, and I'm so excited. I'm excited to meet

1202
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 2: you in person and hang out would be so cool.

1203
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 3: Yes, you've been there.

1204
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 2: Five times, if more? If not more? Did they have

1205
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 2: off not?

1206
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 3: I have not missed one. And during the pandemic we

1207
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 3: did a little online thing. So I've been to everyone.

1208
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 2: That's so cool.

1209
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 3: I don't plan on miss one. I've told him I'm

1210
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 3: going to be the Delta don of crime con. I'm

1211
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 3: just going to keep showing up, this crazy woman.

1212
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 2: So what would you go there? Do you do a lecture,

1213
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 2: you do workshops, like what are some of the things

1214
01:05:58,680 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: you've done in the past.

1215
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 3: I have done a cold case where I get the

1216
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 3: crowd to help me. I do a thing called ride along,

1217
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 3: which is a VIP package where I bring a special

1218
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: guest with me to do a case and let the

1219
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 3: audience again try to help us solve it with the

1220
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 3: person in tow is usually somebody significant, and I've you know,

1221
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 3: been on panels doing different things. I've done live podcast

1222
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 3: with Nancy and Joe, Scott Morgan and other people. So

1223
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 3: it's a tremendous event. I mean is it's one of

1224
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 3: the first or the first I guess large group of

1225
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 3: volunteers that will jump on a case, help fund a case,

1226
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 3: and do testing. I think last year they funded several

1227
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 3: cases through authorm. That that's the best way to get

1228
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 3: answers right now that I've ever seen. Authoram is just

1229
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 3: solving three, four five cases a day. They're like a

1230
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 3: cold case machine of solvability. So I mean it's a

1231
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 3: place where you meet detectives, and victims and case agents

1232
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 3: and experts in every discipline you can think of, and

1233
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 3: they're just walking around. So all of a sudden you

1234
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 3: look up and there's doctor am Burgess, and then there's

1235
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 3: Nancy Grace, and then there's Paul Holes, and you're like,

1236
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 3: this is crazy. And not only do you see those people.

1237
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 3: If you say, hey, Paul, can you sign this? Or

1238
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 3: Nancy can I take a picture, They're like sure, so accessible,

1239
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 3: it's mind boggling. And then you have this whole podcast row,

1240
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 3: So all these people that you've listened to for all

1241
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 3: these years, they're just sitting there, happy to talk to you,

1242
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 3: happy to share ideas and things like that. And then

1243
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 3: you may have somebody like Beth Holloway or Ethan Chapin's

1244
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 3: bomb they're walking by, so you get a chance to,

1245
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 3: you know, really reach out to them and tell them, hey,

1246
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 3: I've thought about you said, you know, the case happened,

1247
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 3: and you know when this thing goes to trial, you're

1248
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 3: gonna have a ton of people paying for you and

1249
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 3: thinking about you. So it's just like nothing you've ever experienced.

1250
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 3: It is absolutely fantastic.

1251
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I'm doing a

1252
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 2: lecture actually and doing the podcast live too.

1253
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 3: Which excellent.

1254
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 2: We've never done the podcast live, so it's it's gonna

1255
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 2: be it's gonna be great. You're gonna mesup that much. Yeah,

1256
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 2: we're like really excited about it? Are you?

1257
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 4: So?

1258
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 2: I know that you have your hand in a million

1259
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 2: things right now. Are you working on anything new that

1260
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 2: we don't know about? Or you're just yes? Can you

1261
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 2: tell us? I can.

1262
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 3: I'm actually working on something that is I think, something

1263
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 3: that I'm as excited about as I've ever been about

1264
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,759
Speaker 3: any project that I've ever worked on. But in March

1265
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 3: I was able to go to the Wildlife Forensic Academy

1266
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 3: in South Africa and train on anti poachin Oh. That's cool,

1267
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 3: hands down the greatest training I've ever participated in. And

1268
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,560
Speaker 3: you know, on top of having all these tremendous experts,

1269
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 3: you know, you open your door to your chalet and

1270
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 3: there's just giraftes walking back, and then there's a herd

1271
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 3: of wilderbeast and then there's rhinos, and I'm like, why

1272
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 3: would anybody ever leave here? Like it's just extraordinary. The

1273
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 3: people were just peerless and lovely and kind and fun.

1274
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 3: And so I am working on the Wildlife CSI Academy

1275
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 3: Stateside to help support how we're going to help train

1276
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 3: their rangers and other folks that sometimes have limited funding

1277
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 3: and supplies and tools and that sort of thing. So

1278
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 3: we're gonna start training people and helping save some of

1279
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 3: these animals.

1280
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 2: I was just talking. I had an interview last week

1281
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 2: with doctor Jason Birds. You know him, use a frame

1282
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 2: I do. Yeah, he's awesome. I love that dude. He

1283
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 2: is fantastic. So we were talking about that because he

1284
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 2: he is involved with the Wildlife Forensic So I don't

1285
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 2: know what the name of it is, but yes, we

1286
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 2: were talking. I was asking him that because I don't

1287
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,679
Speaker 2: know if you remember back in the day when doctor

1288
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 2: Biden did that autopsy show, he was talking about this

1289
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 2: case of this elk that was killed in Yellowstone. Oh yes, yeah, yeah,

1290
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 2: and how they traced and found out he was at

1291
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 2: some tax The guy brought him to a taxidermist and

1292
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 2: that's how they were able to Yeah, they had named

1293
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 2: the elk the I know, I forget what his name is. Yes, yeah,

1294
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 2: he had a name that he was like a famous

1295
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 2: elk in yeah, very in Hellowstone. So yes, yeah, it

1296
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 2: was a brag interesting I'll bragg.

1297
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 3: On doctor Bird, Jason Bird for a minute at the

1298
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:53,440
Speaker 3: University of Florida. So before I went to the academy,

1299
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 3: I talked to him because several of us had an

1300
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 3: idea of maybe how to help because in South Africa,

1301
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 3: in certain parts, the illiteracy rate is like eighty seven percent,

1302
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 3: so they're not gonna be able to read a police report, right,

1303
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 3: So what could you do visually to help out? So

1304
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 3: Jason was working with me because I wanted to float

1305
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 3: this idea almost like a peer review to several different people,

1306
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 3: and I mean I contacted probably twenty people. They all said, yeah,

1307
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 3: that's a great idea. And so we wanted to do

1308
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 3: crime scene markers that were actual visual not numbers, because

1309
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,639
Speaker 3: if you look at an overall any crime scene I've

1310
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 3: ever done, you might say, you know, one, three, seven, nine, twelve.

1311
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:46,679
Speaker 3: You see these numbers, but you don't know what's next

1312
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 3: to them with the overall view, right, So it could

1313
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 3: be a bullet or blood or a cigarette butt or whatever.

1314
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 3: So I thought if we had animals and pawprints and

1315
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 3: darts and those sorts of things own large markers, then

1316
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 3: from a distance you could see the sea and so

1317
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 3: Jason was like, yeah, that sounds great. You know, do

1318
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 3: you know this person over at Medtech And I was like, no,

1319
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 3: I don't know her. He's like, call her, tell her.

1320
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 3: I said, to call you and tell her to put

1321
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 3: it on my tab. So the crime scene markers he

1322
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 3: paid for. And let me just say this clearly, I

1323
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 3: had never met the man in person.

1324
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he just seems so cool and he's telling you

1325
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 2: like he just like loves what he's doing and it

1326
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 2: really shows. And that's that's great.

1327
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:38,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, tremendous. So Melanie over at Medtech worked them all out.

1328
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 3: Like I said, I had several other people that were

1329
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 3: so giving and so wonderful to help, Karen Smith being

1330
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 3: one of them. Karen gave money. Karen said, hey, instead

1331
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 3: of being crime scene markers, make them a little bit bigger,

1332
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 3: like maybe the yard stand. And Melanie's like, oh, we

1333
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 3: can do that and they can all still be yell us.

1334
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,679
Speaker 3: So it worked out great and they are in South

1335
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:00,599
Speaker 3: Africa or right now.

1336
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 2: That's so cool. That's such a great experience that you

1337
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 2: got to that just can't some random thing that just

1338
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 2: came from this. It's just it's great and it's great

1339
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,799
Speaker 2: to share your life story with everyone because I always

1340
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 2: tell everyone that I always meet these these young kids

1341
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 2: that they go to college for biology and they don't

1342
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 2: know what they want to do or they don't know

1343
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 2: what jobs are out there, and then we just talk

1344
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 2: to people that do all of these interesting things. And

1345
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,600
Speaker 2: there's so many different things you could do in this

1346
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 2: field if you're interested in science. And it's really awesome

1347
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 2: to hear your story, so thanks for sharing it with us.

1348
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 3: Of course, look what you're doing with your platform though,

1349
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 3: I think what you and your daughter are doing is

1350
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 3: just fabulous. It is brilliant and it's needed because you're

1351
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 3: sharing information that they can't get anywhere else the way

1352
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,759
Speaker 3: you're giving it and like you've said from the hip,

1353
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 3: the way they can understand it, and then showing them

1354
01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 3: all these different people. So I can't wait to hang

1355
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 3: out with y'all either.

1356
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for being here today. It was

1357
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 2: so great to speak with you.

1358
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I had a great time.

1359
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 2: Where before we go, where could everybody find you? Your

1360
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: podcast is zoned seven.

1361
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 3: Yes, it's everywhere you would normally get a podcast, you know,

1362
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 3: Apple and Spotify and everywhere, and I'm all over social media,

1363
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 3: so you can look up Cheryl Matt McCollum, or the

1364
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 3: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute or Zone seven.

1365
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 2: Awesome. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening to

1366
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 2: Mother Nos Death. As a reminder, my training is as

1367
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 2: a pathologists assistant. I have a master's level education and

1368
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 2: specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I am not a

1369
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 2: doctor and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead

1370
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 2: or alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor.

1371
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,679
Speaker 2: This show, my website, and social media accounts are designed

1372
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 2: to educate and inform people based on my experience working

1373
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 2: in pathology, so they can make healthier decisions regarding their

1374
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 2: life and well being. Always remember that science is changing

1375
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 2: every day, and the opinions expressed in this episode are

1376
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 2: based on my knowledge of those subjects at the time

1377
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 2: of publication. If you are having a medical problem, have

1378
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 2: a medical question, or having a medical emergency, please contact

1379
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 2: your physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room

1380
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 2: or hospital. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows

1381
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:40,440
Speaker 2: Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you get podcasts.

1382
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 2: Thanks