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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house stufwards dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we are talking

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Speaker 1: about male friendships a k A. Dude ships, romance, a bromance.

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Speaker 1: Because last time on the podcast we talked about female

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Speaker 1: friendships a k a. Unfortunately phrenemies, hackneyed term that it is,

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Speaker 1: and we decided to look at male friendships today because

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of scholarship on male friendships, because

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Speaker 1: it seems like, in the eyes of academics, bromances. Are

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Speaker 1: these just very special little gym's. Yeah, Like every everything

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Speaker 1: I read across the board with oh, men being friends

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Speaker 1: with each other? Look, look, everyone, friendship among men. They're

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Speaker 1: breaking out of masculinity constructs and bonding. Can you believe

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Speaker 1: that they're self schema is allowing them to interact with

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Speaker 1: one another on a very personal level? Oh that's adorable. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and as we mentioned in the last episode, history

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Speaker 1: has certainly romanticized male friendships. And I gotta say from

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Speaker 1: personal experience, there is something very particular about about the bromance.

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Speaker 1: I have a couple of of guy best friend pairs

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Speaker 1: in my life and and one of them it's these

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Speaker 1: two guys. Um, there's some of my closest friends. They

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Speaker 1: grew up on the same street together. They have lived

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Speaker 1: together now for years. Um. And riding around in the

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Speaker 1: car with them when they're in the front seat and

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Speaker 1: I'm just sort of a bystander is incredible because their

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Speaker 1: conversation doesn't stop, but it only involves things like like,

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Speaker 1: you know, explosives and you know, if they what kind

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Speaker 1: of a lot of discussions on ideal superpowers, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: random sports minutia, and it's stuff like that that has

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Speaker 1: made a lot of people say, well, male friendships aren't

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Speaker 1: as deep or as genuine as female friendships. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff written out there about how well you

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Speaker 1: you just stop judging us by your feminine standards, right,

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Speaker 1: We're not the same as you. And so yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: there's been, um there's been sort of a looking down

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Speaker 1: upon of male friendship because well, they're just talking about superpowers.

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Speaker 1: How how close can they possibly be? Yeah, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you too. It will diverge eventually,

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Speaker 1: into gossip. Man, you know what I'm talking about. You

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Speaker 1: got to just waggled her fingers. I did. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about maybe a history of male friendships because they

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Speaker 1: were seen as more noble than marital love, because women

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Speaker 1: are just flawed Jezebel. Exactly. It's what I've been saying forever. Um, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Women were seen as the inferior sex, and so there

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Speaker 1: was something very um, wonderful and warm and tingly about

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Speaker 1: male friendships because they didn't have another outlet. It's not

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Speaker 1: like men and women back then were hanging out on

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Speaker 1: the weekends or whatever. No, it was it was just

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Speaker 1: men hanging out with other men, and so they had

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Speaker 1: to kind of get this affection somewhere, and so there

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Speaker 1: was this glowing, this glowing view of friendship back then.

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Speaker 1: There's one historical example that piqued my interest, which was

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Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln and his very dear friend Joshua Speed And

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Speaker 1: for four years they shared a bed and they wrote

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Speaker 1: letters back and forth constantly, even after they parted ways geographically,

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Speaker 1: and there was a speculation that because of the intimacy

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Speaker 1: of that friendship, it must have meant that Abraham Lincoln

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Speaker 1: was gay because by our twenty one century standards of

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Speaker 1: of masculinity and such, the idea of two men sharing

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Speaker 1: a bed for four years there had to be some

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Speaker 1: hanky panky. But in fact, in the nineteenth century it

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Speaker 1: was not uncommon for French tiersman to sleep too or

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Speaker 1: even three to a bed, just for economical reasons and

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Speaker 1: those kinds. Sometimes it was cold, yeah, exactly. And the

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Speaker 1: kind of homophobic physical barriers um were not in place

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Speaker 1: at that time, right, and they really didn't come about

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Speaker 1: until really the turn of the twentieth century when psychologists

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Speaker 1: started examining homosexuality, and all of a sudden, all these

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Speaker 1: men were looking at each other like, oh uh oh no,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't what I I'm going to go over here

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Speaker 1: with these women look at me and these women. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the same kind of thing that I just mentioned

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Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, where there were definitely very rigid

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Speaker 1: social constructs, you know what, men came according in the

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Speaker 1: parlor and sat everybody was supervised and everything. There really

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Speaker 1: wasn't much opportunity for men and women to socialize together.

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Speaker 1: And so these male friendships became just very close, and they,

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Speaker 1: especially in nineteenth century America, were marked by an intense

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Speaker 1: bond and filled with deeply held feeling and sentimentality, which

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Speaker 1: sounds a lot like a mirroring of female friendship now. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: And we found an article on a history of male

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Speaker 1: friendships over at the Art of Manliness dot com and

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Speaker 1: they call out a book called Picturing Men, A Century

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Speaker 1: of Male Relationships in Everyday American Photography by John Ibsen.

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Speaker 1: And even though I read that title quickly, if you

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Speaker 1: do google image it it these these images of these

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Speaker 1: men holding hands and hugging and just being very physically

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Speaker 1: affectionate standing, yeah, sitting on lap standing, So start contrast

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Speaker 1: to that kind of feeling personal space, the side hug, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the fist bump, yeah yeah. And this was the writer's

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Speaker 1: over at Art of Manliness said that this is it

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Speaker 1: depicts a manliness quite foreign to us, now, which is

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Speaker 1: exactly right. I mean, I looked at these pictures and

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Speaker 1: I thought, I don't know anyone who would pose like that.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't uncommon. It wasn't like these pictures were staged.

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Speaker 1: And I mean they were staged, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not like, Okay, let's make a really hysterical picture. Now.

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Speaker 1: It was just normal, Hey, we're buddies. We're gonna hold hands,

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Speaker 1: lock arms and take this photo. But like you said, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: things started to change in the twentieth century, not only

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Speaker 1: with that psychological attention to homosexuality and the rising um

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Speaker 1: self consciousness because of it, but also because of the

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Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution and social Darwinism that arguably changed how men

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Speaker 1: looked at one another. It shifted things from being peers

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Speaker 1: to competitors. Yeah, you're you're competing for you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're everybody's moving into the cities during the Industrial Revolution,

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Speaker 1: so you're not only competing for jobs, but you're competing

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Speaker 1: for a space to live, and for resources, and for

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Speaker 1: ladies presumably I don't know wives, who knows, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: so moving on, you know, we start to get this

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Speaker 1: increased mobility. You know, people are moving to cities and

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Speaker 1: they're not putting down roots, so maybe they're not developing

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Speaker 1: friendships that are as strong. They don't have people they've

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Speaker 1: known since childhood on the farm. Um. And then we've

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Speaker 1: got the rise of leisure activities and this, uh, the

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Speaker 1: writers that art of mainliness argue leads to gendered friendships

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Speaker 1: because with the rise of leisure activities, you have more

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Speaker 1: sports and outdoor activities, and that sort of becomes the

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Speaker 1: framework for male friendships because they're out there planning sports,

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Speaker 1: they're playing football or soccer or golf or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: that's sort of what they end up forming their friendships on,

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Speaker 1: not not so much the deep emotional bonds that were

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Speaker 1: so familiar in the nineteenth century. Right. Um, male friendships

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Speaker 1: are often categorized as activity friends. You know, they're the

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Speaker 1: people who you meet up with to go play golf

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Speaker 1: or meet up with for a drink, as opposed to

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Speaker 1: girl friends who might tend to just kind of sit

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Speaker 1: around a little bit more together exactly. And that's that

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Speaker 1: The side decide versus face to face term is something

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Speaker 1: that was coined by Paul Wright, and that comes up

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Speaker 1: again and again on in studies on friendship, that that

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Speaker 1: men are side to side friends. They're going out in

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Speaker 1: the world, they're doing things together, whether it's playing sports

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Speaker 1: or you know whatever, whereas women are more face to

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Speaker 1: face friends, because we tend to get together and and talk,

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Speaker 1: you know, have drinks with each other and go over

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Speaker 1: our lives and whatever. So record podcast record podcasts were

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Speaker 1: face to face look at us how perfect example, but

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Speaker 1: Just because there might be a side by side versus

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Speaker 1: face to face does not diminish the quality of male friendships,

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Speaker 1: as more recent scholarship has known. As much as we

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Speaker 1: might want to just write off bromances as a product

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Speaker 1: of Judd Apatel's comedic genius, there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: value in them, even though I cannot personally say that

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Speaker 1: I've ever been first person involved and a bromance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's okay. It sounds awesome though. Yeah. Jeffrey Grief, a

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Speaker 1: professor at the University of Maryland School of Social Work,

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Speaker 1: has done a lot of research on male friendships, and

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Speaker 1: he has a blog over at Psychology Today where he

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Speaker 1: touches on questions and writes little entries about male friendship.

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Speaker 1: And he said that although men might not be physically

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Speaker 1: or emotionally expressive, they still derive great support from their friendships,

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Speaker 1: and in an interview with The Washington Examiner, he said

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Speaker 1: he wanted to find out through it through a book

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Speaker 1: he wrote where he interviewed several hundred men about their friendships.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to find out how much of society is

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Speaker 1: driven by competitions between men. Men being afraid to be

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Speaker 1: vulner doable and men's inability to connect. He goes back

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Speaker 1: to childhood and says, we have to allow boys to

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Speaker 1: be close without trying to outdo each other or best

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Speaker 1: the other. In all endeavors, historically, we raise our boys

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Speaker 1: to act like men, so that being vulnerable and physically

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Speaker 1: close are sometimes discouraged by parents. So he's going all

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Speaker 1: the way back to childhood. How how even parents can

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Speaker 1: affect how men end up interacting with each other absolutely um.

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Speaker 1: And the book that he wrote is called Buddy System

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Speaker 1: Understanding Male Friendships, and he breaks male friendships down into

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Speaker 1: four rhyming categories. Remember four rhyming categories, must, trust, rust,

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Speaker 1: and just and right. Must He breaks it down. It's

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Speaker 1: it's interesting how he breaks it down. Must they're your

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Speaker 1: must friends, like your best friends. They know everything about you.

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Speaker 1: You're very close with them. Your trust friends that's maybe

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Speaker 1: not someone you have to have in your life, but

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Speaker 1: that you would. You would trust them with your private thoughts.

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Speaker 1: You might confide in them. The rust friends are the

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Speaker 1: people that maybe your wife is like, why do you

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Speaker 1: still hang out with that person? Um? But you've known

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Speaker 1: them since childhood, so you keep them around. Like the

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Speaker 1: Jason Siegel character. And I love you man, sure, exactly,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a wild card. And then there's

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Speaker 1: just which I think, uh, it's it's definitely not as

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Speaker 1: close as the others. Even the rust friends, the just

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Speaker 1: friends are just that their their acquaintances. They're not maybe

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Speaker 1: people you ever confide your private thoughts or your your

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Speaker 1: irks and annoyances with, but they're there to hang out with,

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Speaker 1: maybe at a poker game or something. So they're of

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Speaker 1: your friends on Facebook? Correct, are your just friends? Correct?

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Speaker 1: Those people that maybe you haven't hidden yet, right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And grief also characterizes male friendships is having less physical contact,

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Speaker 1: less verbal communication, and more light competition as a way

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Speaker 1: to foster interaction, in other words, leveraging activities and well

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Speaker 1: really just golfing to to share. But a lot of

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Speaker 1: times what you share is going to be more external information,

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Speaker 1: such as your taste in say, explosives or superpowers or music.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not trying to make light of mail

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Speaker 1: to Maile conversation, but I'm serious, that's superpower conversation has

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Speaker 1: come up a lot of times. Yeah, yeah, I agree

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Speaker 1: with you. I've heard that conversation. But yeah, grief, there

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of other researchers out there, And

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Speaker 1: one one interview that I really enjoyed reading was with

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Speaker 1: Dr Naobi Way. She's a New York University professor who's

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Speaker 1: focused a lot on UM boys friendships and she got

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Speaker 1: the idea to to focus on this in her life

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Speaker 1: UM by watching her younger brother's heartache when his best

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Speaker 1: friend from across the street into their relationship. And that's

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Speaker 1: when it occurred to her that, wow, you know, boys

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Speaker 1: just don't have an outlet. They don't know where to

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Speaker 1: go and how to handle this when something like this happens.

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Speaker 1: Whereas you know, if little girls have a falling out

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Speaker 1: or young young women, they usually have a really strong,

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Speaker 1: kind of wide social network to turn to UM. But

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Speaker 1: her brother didn't, and he, she says to the stay,

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Speaker 1: he still doesn't like to talk about it well. And

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Speaker 1: through the research that she did for her book Deep Secrets, Boys,

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Speaker 1: Friendships and the Crisis of Connection, she writes, eventually a

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Speaker 1: boy has to choose between a boyfriend and a girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Obviously she's talking about straight boys, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: can understand that that divergence between moving from platonic into

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Speaker 1: with these adult male friendships, a lot of the interaction

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Speaker 1: is focused on more superficial kind of stuff because they

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Speaker 1: take the emotional conversations to their mate, which is the

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Speaker 1: opposite of what we read about a lot of female

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Speaker 1: friendships and what we a lot of us know firsthand

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Speaker 1: to be true, which is that women tend to not

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Speaker 1: turn to their husbands in terms of needing support wanting

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Speaker 1: to vent. Although you know, I'm sure women been to

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Speaker 1: their husbands. I'm not saying you don't, but women have,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I said, broader social networks to turn to.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to have their spouse be their sole

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Speaker 1: outlet for everything in life. But men tend to reserve

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Speaker 1: their friendships for We're gonna have a good time, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna go out and play golf, We're gonna hang out.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell him everything I'm worried about

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Speaker 1: at work or things going on with my children. Necessarily,

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Speaker 1: it seems like more of a priority, and we talked

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Speaker 1: about that along the podcast, possibly undergirded by evolution a

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Speaker 1: priority to for women to have that and maintain a

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Speaker 1: very active social network outside of the mate. Just in Catsey,

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Speaker 1: the size to get up and leave. We are ready

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Speaker 1: for the other shoot to drop at any time. That's

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Speaker 1: so optimistic. Thank you evolution Um. But in writing for

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Speaker 1: Psychology Today, Grief, who was the one who wrote Buddy System,

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Speaker 1: understanding male friendships. He sees bromances as a way to

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Speaker 1: refer to new relationships. He says, guys meet each other

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Speaker 1: and get into doing things together, and they're usually excited

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Speaker 1: about finding someone who likes to do the same things

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Speaker 1: as them. Old friends often don't have that same feel.

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Speaker 1: The old friend is a stable friend, the go to guy.

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Speaker 1: Would he be a must? Yeah, I guess the old

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Speaker 1: friend would either be a must or a rust. I

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Speaker 1: guess the bromance would be a just that is going

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Speaker 1: to become a trust, and the new friend has a

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Speaker 1: fresher and more exciting feel to him. Here's the thing, though,

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Speaker 1: this does not sound all that different from the process

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Speaker 1: of making new lady friends. You know, new girls are exciting,

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Speaker 1: but there are Remember the last podcast I said, google

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Speaker 1: female friendships and you will be shocked at how many

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Speaker 1: like dating esque websites there are on how to make

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Speaker 1: female friends. That it's definitely not the same for men.

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Speaker 1: You google men friendships or male friendships, and it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of scholarship and articles and all

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Speaker 1: sorts of stuff about how awesome men are and their

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Speaker 1: friendships are just so precious. But were there all of

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Speaker 1: those kind of friend finders that it seemed like men

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Speaker 1: were as actively looking. Yeah, that could be totally Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that could sum it up. Maybe men just aren't like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I have to get on the on

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Speaker 1: the internet and find friends. Well, because maybe that relates

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Speaker 1: back to that sort of socialized fear of intimacy or

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Speaker 1: at least of not wanting to seem like you're seeking

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Speaker 1: out intimacy because it could be perceived as feminine and

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Speaker 1: needy exactly. Um, not to conflate those two terms, No,

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Speaker 1: of course not. Yeah, so as far as um, maybe

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Speaker 1: appearing feminine by seeking out these relationships. A study by

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Bowman at the University of San Diego examined research

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Speaker 1: that shows men are unlikely to discuss personal topics with

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Speaker 1: male friends. We've covered that, it makes sense, we understand that,

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Speaker 1: but he says that research has shown that people act

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Speaker 1: according to their cognitive generalizations of self. In other words,

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Speaker 1: people with a masculine self schema, if you consider yourself

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Speaker 1: to be a very masculine person, Christian is pointing to herself,

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Speaker 1: um are able to enact stereotypically masculine information and behaviors

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Speaker 1: more quickly than those with a feminine self schema. So

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Speaker 1: whereas I have a feminine self schema, so I might

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Speaker 1: go on the internet and look for friends, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: um sissy um. People with a more masculine self schema

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Speaker 1: are like, I don't need that. I have friends. I

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Speaker 1: have buddies that I talked to once a year or

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Speaker 1: go golfing with on one Sunday a month. I'm fine.

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Speaker 1: So it could be not that they're trying to necessarily

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Speaker 1: even avoid looking feminine, but maybe they're just like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's not what guys do. I don't feel the need

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Speaker 1: to do it, or in the words of one guy

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Speaker 1: briefly dated Kristen, I have enough friends. Well there is that.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing though about these, uh these self

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Speaker 1: schemas that the study also found is that we're not

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Speaker 1: necessarily standing on either side of the spectrum. I'm not

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Speaker 1: holding down on the masculine til the schema camp with

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Speaker 1: not a trace of femininity in me uh he. What

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Speaker 1: the researcher did was used the bem sexual inventory, which

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Speaker 1: is a nice way of showing how your different personality

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Speaker 1: traits can intersect to reflect both masculinity and femininity, thus

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Speaker 1: creating it a lovely spectrum. And his research found that

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Speaker 1: there were enough androgynous traits that men and women share

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Speaker 1: that actually provides or fosters at least interpersonal disclosure even

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Speaker 1: in male friendships, possibly making this whole stereotype that men

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Speaker 1: and aren't sharing a little bit uh inaccurate. Could be

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Speaker 1: not necessarily to say that there is as much self

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Speaker 1: disclosure as there would be with female relationships, but let's

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Speaker 1: not discount the fact that surely it does happen, and

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Speaker 1: the ways that men interact certainly evolved, particularly as they

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Speaker 1: get older. Um. Going back to talking about Naobi Way,

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Speaker 1: the New York University professor, she she talked to a

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Speaker 1: lot of boys, and over time, as they got older,

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Speaker 1: she realized that the intensity of their friendships began to

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Speaker 1: fade because they feared being seen as too girly or

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Speaker 1: gay for expressing attachments to one another. And that is

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Speaker 1: not really what researchers have found in the UK at all.

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Speaker 1: It's actually the opposite of what one study found, and

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Speaker 1: that was by American sociologist Eric Anderson, who says that

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Speaker 1: it's normal in the UK for young straight boys to

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Speaker 1: sleep in the same bed frequently and to cuddle. And

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Speaker 1: he found that of heterosexual undergraduate in the UK that

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Speaker 1: he talked to had kissed a straight male friend on

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Speaker 1: the lips at least once, compared with only seven percent

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Speaker 1: of male US undergrads he talked to. Yeah, m his

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Speaker 1: studies at least have found that American UH frat boys

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Speaker 1: have revealed themselves to be increasingly comfortable with same sex

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Speaker 1: physical and emotional intimacy, which is in contrast to a

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Speaker 1: book called guy Land, which some of you out there

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Speaker 1: might have read by Michael Kimmel that really looks at

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Speaker 1: that whole um sort of white, upper middle class male

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Speaker 1: young adult culture and is terrified by it because it

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Speaker 1: just constantly reinforces negative masculinity traits um. But he says

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Speaker 1: that the sociologists Eric Anderson also says that he's found

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Speaker 1: that the US consistently ranks twenty percentage points higher on

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Speaker 1: homophobia compared to the UK. But I feel like this

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Speaker 1: might be it might be getting better. I think so too.

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Speaker 1: I think, uh, there was a lot of stuff I

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Speaker 1: read that showed that younger the younger generation, particularly teens,

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Speaker 1: young teens in high school or whatever, are definitely more

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Speaker 1: comfortable with their gay peers and are not so scared

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Speaker 1: about expressing um affection for their friends because you know,

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Speaker 1: they're just more comfortable with themselves. Well, and I would

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Speaker 1: say too that the whole romance meme that's probably helped things.

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Speaker 1: That's okay to say I love you man, right, It's

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Speaker 1: it's fine to have a super close buddy. And I

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Speaker 1: will say that with all of this research we've been

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Speaker 1: calling out, there was one big gap, and it's a

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Speaker 1: gap that comes up so often and a lot of

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Speaker 1: our research is that I didn't find many studies on

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Speaker 1: homosexual male friendships and how that might interact with things. UM.

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Speaker 1: So that would be something to go back and take

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Speaker 1: a closer look at, especially when we're talking about those

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Speaker 1: cognitive schemas and see the friendship not only between two

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Speaker 1: gay men, but maybe a gay man and a straight man.

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Speaker 1: There was, Yeah, there was nothing really that I found. Well,

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Speaker 1: so what do you think, guys do you have do

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Speaker 1: you have the best buddy. Do you confide in your

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Speaker 1: must friend but just play poker with your just friend.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a female confidant that you take your real,

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Speaker 1: deep bleeding heart feelings too. How do you work things out?

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Speaker 1: Because this is one of those instances where we Caroline

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Speaker 1: and I obviously have no first person experience, so we're

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Speaker 1: relying on you fellas to let us know. Is this

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Speaker 1: a bunch of stereotype about bromance or is it true?

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Speaker 1: Are are you? Is the side by side versus face

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Speaker 1: to face fact? Let us know, Mom stuff at Discovery

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Speaker 1: dot com is our email address, and we've got a

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Speaker 1: couple of letters there from there to share. Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is a response to our episode on Martha Stewart, and

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Speaker 1: she wrote to offer some praise for Martha. I think

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Speaker 1: Martha has gotten a lot of flak for being too perfect,

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Speaker 1: and to some extent they're right, Martha represents the highest

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Speaker 1: standard of domesticity. But I see here as someone to

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Speaker 1: set an example, not necessarily a standard I need to reach.

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Speaker 1: As for being a feminist, when you mentioned the fact

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Speaker 1: that Martha is divorce and not doing these domestic activities

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Speaker 1: for a man, it really struck a chord with me

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Speaker 1: that I couldn't put my finger on. Before. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a home that shirked traditional gender roles, so

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Speaker 1: I never really experienced the whole clean the house and

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Speaker 1: pearls and have dinner ready when the hubby gets home thing. However,

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Speaker 1: my father took extreme pride in keeping her house clean,

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Speaker 1: making sure everything was in working order, and cooking. He

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Speaker 1: pointed out that a lot of men disparage these activities

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Speaker 1: as women's work, but most of them have no clue

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Speaker 1: how to cook a decent meal or properly clean a

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Speaker 1: house top to bottom. To me, it's about being the

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Speaker 1: best he can be. It has nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: being a subservient or feminine. Some people may say these

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Speaker 1: activity are too traditionally feminine and even go against feminism,

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Speaker 1: but I think that logic in itself is anti feminist.

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Speaker 1: By shaming women for enjoying domestic activities like cooking, housekeeping,

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Speaker 1: and crafting, we're telling them that these feminine activities are

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Speaker 1: not good enough. As you said, feminism is about choices,

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Speaker 1: and I don't feel like my hobbies make me any

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Speaker 1: less of a feminist. I see Martha Moore as a

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Speaker 1: woman who refused to be told her passions weren't good

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Speaker 1: enough and pursued them to great success other than being

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Speaker 1: a golden age housewife. Very true. This is from Kristen

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Speaker 1: in response to our Men and Women Exercise podcast. She says,

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Speaker 1: I was at the gym. I just had to write

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Speaker 1: in because I'm one of those women working my tail

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Speaker 1: off every day literally and can't lose the weight. I

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Speaker 1: had a baby one year ago, but I have not

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Speaker 1: been able to lose a single pound. I have checked

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Speaker 1: with my doctor and while I have a very limmetabolism,

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Speaker 1: it's still normal. I eat healthy, I'm at the gym

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Speaker 1: two hours a day, six days a week. Who but

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Speaker 1: those stubborn pounds will not come off. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you have another podcast about the women Ways to lose weight.

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Speaker 1: If not, maybe soon in the future perhaps, but just

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Speaker 1: don't carve below. That's what I gotta tell you exactly.

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Speaker 1: So again, if you've got an email you'd like to

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00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: send our way. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is

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00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: the address to send them to, or you can leave

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00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 1: us a note over on Facebook, or send us a

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00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: very short note on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. And

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Speaker 1: of course you can always check out the blog during

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Speaker 1: the week it's stuff Mom Never told You at how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. This podcast is brought to you

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