1 00:00:16,271 --> 00:00:16,711 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:27,671 --> 00:00:29,951 Speaker 2: The day Oliver North was fired from his job at 3 00:00:29,951 --> 00:00:32,671 Speaker 2: the White House, Ronald Reagan called him on the phone 4 00:00:32,711 --> 00:00:35,711 Speaker 2: and told him he was a national hero. It was 5 00:00:35,751 --> 00:00:39,031 Speaker 2: a brief conversation, but Reagan found time for some gallows humor, 6 00:00:39,511 --> 00:00:41,871 Speaker 2: telling North he thought Iran Contra would make a great 7 00:00:41,911 --> 00:00:46,231 Speaker 2: movie someday. Reagan, a former Hollywood actor with nearly thirty 8 00:00:46,311 --> 00:00:49,391 Speaker 2: years of experience in the movie business, probably didn't realize 9 00:00:49,431 --> 00:00:51,031 Speaker 2: how quickly someday would come. 10 00:00:51,951 --> 00:00:55,031 Speaker 3: Hollywood's already growing up its wait list for a TV 11 00:00:55,151 --> 00:00:57,231 Speaker 3: mini series What's Got all the elements. 12 00:00:56,871 --> 00:00:59,111 Speaker 4: Of the health. It's a very dramatic story. It's complex, 13 00:00:59,151 --> 00:01:00,351 Speaker 4: but it's a dramatic story. 14 00:01:00,631 --> 00:01:03,270 Speaker 2: Ali North was the rare star witness and a political 15 00:01:03,271 --> 00:01:07,591 Speaker 2: scandal who had actual star quality. Norman Lear, the creator 16 00:01:07,591 --> 00:01:10,191 Speaker 2: of All in the Family at good times, marvel at 17 00:01:10,191 --> 00:01:13,231 Speaker 2: his stage presence. He gets tears in his eyes. Lear said, 18 00:01:13,871 --> 00:01:15,551 Speaker 2: TV eats up moist eyed people. 19 00:01:16,231 --> 00:01:19,071 Speaker 5: There were times when this career military man demonstrated a 20 00:01:19,111 --> 00:01:21,991 Speaker 5: brilliant gift for using the media. Through the day, across 21 00:01:22,031 --> 00:01:25,631 Speaker 5: the country, Americans watched as network soap operas were replaced 22 00:01:25,671 --> 00:01:26,711 Speaker 5: by Oliver North. 23 00:01:26,911 --> 00:01:29,431 Speaker 2: Even before the Iran Contra hearings ended in the summer 24 00:01:29,471 --> 00:01:32,631 Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty seven. Journalists and producers in Hollywood were 25 00:01:32,631 --> 00:01:36,151 Speaker 2: talking about who should play North on the big screen if. 26 00:01:35,991 --> 00:01:37,991 Speaker 6: They ever get around to making the movie of the 27 00:01:38,031 --> 00:01:40,951 Speaker 6: contra hearings. Here in Hollywood, Oliver North look alike Treat 28 00:01:41,031 --> 00:01:43,231 Speaker 6: Williams would seem to be the front runner for the 29 00:01:43,311 --> 00:01:43,911 Speaker 6: leading role. 30 00:01:44,791 --> 00:01:48,431 Speaker 2: At one point during north testimony, Prankster's in Los Angeles 31 00:01:48,431 --> 00:01:50,751 Speaker 2: covered up the H and the Hollywood sign so that 32 00:01:50,791 --> 00:01:52,391 Speaker 2: it said olliy would. 33 00:01:52,871 --> 00:01:55,591 Speaker 5: An anonymous scholar said he made the change quote not 34 00:01:55,671 --> 00:01:58,871 Speaker 5: to condone North's actions, but to give expression to the 35 00:01:58,951 --> 00:02:01,071 Speaker 5: nationwide wave of Ali mania. 36 00:02:03,831 --> 00:02:06,311 Speaker 2: The scandal had everything you could want in a blockbuster 37 00:02:06,831 --> 00:02:11,990 Speaker 2: international intrigue, communists, bad guys, secret rons abroad. He was 38 00:02:12,031 --> 00:02:14,791 Speaker 2: an action movie, a legal drama, and a spy thriller 39 00:02:14,831 --> 00:02:17,550 Speaker 2: all at once. And at the center of it stood 40 00:02:17,591 --> 00:02:21,391 Speaker 2: a dashing, charismatic man of conviction, a perfect cipher for 41 00:02:21,431 --> 00:02:24,831 Speaker 2: American attitudes about government, patriotism, and democracy. 42 00:02:25,271 --> 00:02:28,591 Speaker 7: Is Oliver North, a hero who kept the Nicaraguan resistance 43 00:02:28,591 --> 00:02:32,351 Speaker 7: alive after Congress had forbidden it, or a zealot subverted 44 00:02:32,431 --> 00:02:35,591 Speaker 7: the system by repeatedly lying about his activities and shredding 45 00:02:35,671 --> 00:02:36,231 Speaker 7: the evidence. 46 00:02:36,511 --> 00:02:39,431 Speaker 2: The expectation in publishing circles was that North would eventually 47 00:02:39,471 --> 00:02:42,511 Speaker 2: be able to get seven figures for his autobiography, which 48 00:02:42,511 --> 00:02:45,791 Speaker 2: could in theory be optioned for TV and film. But 49 00:02:45,871 --> 00:02:48,631 Speaker 2: that could take years, and producers wanted to capitalize on 50 00:02:48,671 --> 00:02:51,471 Speaker 2: the buzz as quickly as possible. That meant they'd have 51 00:02:51,511 --> 00:02:54,791 Speaker 2: to find their source material somewhere else, so they turned 52 00:02:54,791 --> 00:02:55,471 Speaker 2: to journalism. 53 00:02:55,711 --> 00:03:00,671 Speaker 8: I felt that Iran Contra was a really important story, 54 00:03:01,111 --> 00:03:03,430 Speaker 8: really about a constitutional crisis. 55 00:03:04,111 --> 00:03:07,711 Speaker 2: This is Ben Bradley Junior. He's the son of legendary 56 00:03:07,791 --> 00:03:11,671 Speaker 2: editor Ben Bradley, who Oversawtergate coverage at the Washington Post. 57 00:03:12,071 --> 00:03:16,671 Speaker 8: You know, the ideologues in the Reagan administration used North 58 00:03:17,711 --> 00:03:21,071 Speaker 8: as an agent to circumvent the law. 59 00:03:21,831 --> 00:03:24,831 Speaker 2: Ben Bradley Junior was a reporter at the Boston Globe. 60 00:03:25,231 --> 00:03:27,911 Speaker 2: In February of nineteen eighty seven, it was announced that 61 00:03:27,951 --> 00:03:30,551 Speaker 2: he would chronicle the Iran Contra scandal in a book 62 00:03:30,631 --> 00:03:32,311 Speaker 2: called Guts and Glory. 63 00:03:32,351 --> 00:03:35,951 Speaker 8: You know, he had sex appeal. North sort of a 64 00:03:36,231 --> 00:03:42,391 Speaker 8: do it yourself, a gung ho brand of patriotism and 65 00:03:42,471 --> 00:03:46,911 Speaker 8: making things happen, grabbing the bull by the horns. Exploiting 66 00:03:47,471 --> 00:03:52,551 Speaker 8: power vacuums and filling them. That's why I really chose 67 00:03:53,191 --> 00:03:57,231 Speaker 8: North as a vehicle to tell the story of Iran 68 00:03:57,351 --> 00:03:59,191 Speaker 8: Contra in this book. 69 00:03:59,711 --> 00:04:02,191 Speaker 2: Bradley was still working on Guts and Glory when an 70 00:04:02,231 --> 00:04:05,911 Speaker 2: outline of the book started circulating in La Mike Robe, 71 00:04:05,951 --> 00:04:08,351 Speaker 2: a producer and director, first heard about it from an 72 00:04:08,391 --> 00:04:12,111 Speaker 2: executive at CBS. Robe had recently produced a TV movie 73 00:04:12,111 --> 00:04:14,311 Speaker 2: for the network called Murder Ordained. 74 00:04:14,751 --> 00:04:18,190 Speaker 4: Unmercifully and Without Compassion. 75 00:04:18,671 --> 00:04:23,551 Speaker 9: Murder Ordained was very successful. I was sort of in 76 00:04:23,671 --> 00:04:27,671 Speaker 9: the good graces of CBS, and I was beginning to 77 00:04:27,711 --> 00:04:30,791 Speaker 9: think about what I wanted to do next. Ann Along 78 00:04:30,911 --> 00:04:31,911 Speaker 9: came Ali Maniel. 79 00:04:32,551 --> 00:04:35,471 Speaker 2: Robe worked in the increasingly popular genre known as the 80 00:04:35,511 --> 00:04:39,551 Speaker 2: docu drama, a kind of fictionalized nonfiction that, as Newsday 81 00:04:39,551 --> 00:04:42,510 Speaker 2: put it, gave viewers instant history the way a noodle 82 00:04:42,551 --> 00:04:46,391 Speaker 2: mix and hot water give us instant soup. Murder Ordained 83 00:04:46,471 --> 00:04:48,951 Speaker 2: was a prime example of the form. It was based 84 00:04:48,951 --> 00:04:51,071 Speaker 2: on the true story of a minister in Kansas who 85 00:04:51,111 --> 00:04:52,471 Speaker 2: was accused of killing his wife. 86 00:04:53,151 --> 00:04:59,591 Speaker 8: It was a crime beyond belief, starring Terry Kinney Joe Bethwick. 87 00:05:00,071 --> 00:05:04,311 Speaker 9: They were very popular at the time the networks were 88 00:05:04,391 --> 00:05:10,431 Speaker 9: looking for any extra boost and notoriety in sizzle that 89 00:05:10,711 --> 00:05:16,191 Speaker 9: could elevate the interest in their project above that of 90 00:05:16,271 --> 00:05:21,950 Speaker 9: their competition, and it became a whole new art form, 91 00:05:22,271 --> 00:05:24,071 Speaker 9: an original American art form. 92 00:05:24,311 --> 00:05:26,911 Speaker 2: Robe was intrigued by the idea of making a docudrama 93 00:05:26,951 --> 00:05:28,311 Speaker 2: out of the Oliver North story. 94 00:05:28,631 --> 00:05:31,551 Speaker 9: I was fascinated by Oliver North from the get go. 95 00:05:31,871 --> 00:05:35,391 Speaker 9: I was a former military officer. I understood the pressures 96 00:05:35,791 --> 00:05:38,871 Speaker 9: he was operating under. I understood a lot of his attitude. 97 00:05:39,751 --> 00:05:44,510 Speaker 9: I wasn't sure if he was hiding something, but I 98 00:05:44,551 --> 00:05:48,471 Speaker 9: did feel he's a heck of a performer, and he 99 00:05:48,671 --> 00:05:51,271 Speaker 9: was rather spellbinding to watch. 100 00:05:51,671 --> 00:05:56,111 Speaker 7: He is unquestionably telegenic. You'd perhaps say that the force 101 00:05:56,231 --> 00:05:57,830 Speaker 7: is with him. He is a natural. 102 00:05:57,951 --> 00:06:02,751 Speaker 10: I was working desperately to keep the hostages alive. Good grief, 103 00:06:02,791 --> 00:06:05,830 Speaker 10: We'd had this stuff all over the newspapers. The Israelis 104 00:06:05,831 --> 00:06:07,471 Speaker 10: were calling me every half hour. 105 00:06:07,391 --> 00:06:10,671 Speaker 1: And I was Robe did have some reservations. 106 00:06:10,351 --> 00:06:14,671 Speaker 9: From the very get go. My problem as a dramatist, 107 00:06:14,751 --> 00:06:20,231 Speaker 9: my challenge was how do you make this terribly convoluted 108 00:06:20,751 --> 00:06:27,471 Speaker 9: scheme dramatic for a mass television audience in a way 109 00:06:27,511 --> 00:06:33,151 Speaker 9: that they can come to care about someone in the 110 00:06:33,191 --> 00:06:42,510 Speaker 9: show and to understand the very twisted machinations of Iran Contra. 111 00:06:45,711 --> 00:06:47,751 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, Robe couldn't say no, 112 00:06:48,471 --> 00:06:50,711 Speaker 2: and he signed on to adapt Bradley's book into a 113 00:06:50,751 --> 00:06:53,991 Speaker 2: television movie event. He and Bradley would collaborate on the 114 00:06:53,991 --> 00:06:58,031 Speaker 2: screenplay while Bradley finished up his reporting. CBS wanted them 115 00:06:58,031 --> 00:07:01,190 Speaker 2: to move fast. If they didn't, the Guts and Glory 116 00:07:01,231 --> 00:07:03,591 Speaker 2: movie could end up being just one in a sea 117 00:07:03,671 --> 00:07:05,071 Speaker 2: of Iran Contra adaptations. 118 00:07:05,151 --> 00:07:07,311 Speaker 5: No matter which direction you look these days, you'll be 119 00:07:07,311 --> 00:07:10,151 Speaker 5: facing North. Oliver North has been all over television, and 120 00:07:10,191 --> 00:07:12,071 Speaker 5: he's soon to be all over everything else. 121 00:07:12,711 --> 00:07:17,071 Speaker 9: We heard rumblings of other networks thinking about doing Oliver North. 122 00:07:17,671 --> 00:07:21,231 Speaker 9: If your subject is a hot topic, you want to 123 00:07:21,271 --> 00:07:23,751 Speaker 9: get on the air as quickly as you can. We 124 00:07:23,751 --> 00:07:25,271 Speaker 9: looked at a lot of pressure in that way. 125 00:07:25,871 --> 00:07:29,271 Speaker 2: Among Robes would be competitors was a producer named Jay Weston, 126 00:07:29,471 --> 00:07:31,511 Speaker 2: who had announced his own plans to make an Oliver 127 00:07:31,591 --> 00:07:35,590 Speaker 2: North biopic. North was reportedly a fan of Heartbreak Ridge, 128 00:07:35,871 --> 00:07:38,871 Speaker 2: Weston's nineteen eighty six movies, starring Clint Eastwood as a 129 00:07:38,911 --> 00:07:42,391 Speaker 2: fictional marine who leads a platoon during the invasion of Grenada. 130 00:07:41,991 --> 00:07:44,751 Speaker 9: And an assistant in operation of the Island of Grenada 131 00:07:44,791 --> 00:07:46,191 Speaker 9: to rescue American citizens. 132 00:07:46,231 --> 00:07:49,391 Speaker 1: That the Island of what Grenada? 133 00:07:49,911 --> 00:07:53,711 Speaker 2: For the title, Weston was considering reluctant hero, American hero 134 00:07:53,831 --> 00:08:02,351 Speaker 2: gone wrong and carrying patriotism too far. But Weston's project 135 00:08:02,431 --> 00:08:05,551 Speaker 2: never made it off the ground. In September of nineteen 136 00:08:05,591 --> 00:08:07,751 Speaker 2: eighty seven, he told a reporter that it had all 137 00:08:07,751 --> 00:08:10,711 Speaker 2: become too complicated and that life was too short to 138 00:08:10,751 --> 00:08:14,671 Speaker 2: do that tough a project. Plus, with the congressional hearings 139 00:08:14,711 --> 00:08:17,951 Speaker 2: over and the stream of shocking revelations dying down, Weston 140 00:08:17,951 --> 00:08:20,111 Speaker 2: felt like the Iran contra story was getting kind of 141 00:08:20,151 --> 00:08:23,231 Speaker 2: played out. In his opinion, there would have to be 142 00:08:23,271 --> 00:08:28,831 Speaker 2: another twist, some other development that could recapture public interest. 143 00:08:30,031 --> 00:08:32,951 Speaker 2: One thing that could generate that kind of heat, Weston said, 144 00:08:33,631 --> 00:08:38,911 Speaker 2: was if Ali North got indicted. I'm Leon Napok from 145 00:08:38,910 --> 00:08:41,111 Speaker 2: Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. 146 00:08:41,511 --> 00:08:46,910 Speaker 1: This is fiasco Iran contrast. Welcome to the National Security Council. Agent. 147 00:08:47,111 --> 00:08:48,950 Speaker 3: Are you ready to do battle for the administration? 148 00:08:49,231 --> 00:08:49,951 Speaker 10: Absolutely? 149 00:08:50,190 --> 00:08:52,431 Speaker 9: On the set we would have disagreements, so. 150 00:08:52,471 --> 00:08:53,550 Speaker 10: You're right about the job. 151 00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:56,191 Speaker 7: Miss Paul sawn Hall. 152 00:08:56,351 --> 00:08:58,631 Speaker 6: A lot of people probably thought she was a gold digger, 153 00:08:58,710 --> 00:09:00,831 Speaker 6: a bimbo. I didn't want to portray her that way. 154 00:09:00,991 --> 00:09:03,271 Speaker 11: His involvement in the Iran Contra arms deal has left 155 00:09:03,310 --> 00:09:06,030 Speaker 11: him without a job, but with a new responsibility as 156 00:09:06,111 --> 00:09:07,231 Speaker 11: Conservative spokesman. 157 00:09:07,590 --> 00:09:10,751 Speaker 7: I fight any way I can fly. 158 00:09:12,511 --> 00:09:17,991 Speaker 2: Episode seven, Hollywood, How Hollywood tried to turn Iran Contra 159 00:09:18,190 --> 00:09:21,830 Speaker 2: into a movie while Oliver North tried to avoid going 160 00:09:21,871 --> 00:09:22,310 Speaker 2: to prison. 161 00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:25,830 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. 162 00:09:30,471 --> 00:09:33,391 Speaker 2: As you heard in the previous episode, there were three 163 00:09:33,471 --> 00:09:38,471 Speaker 2: major investigations into Iran Contra, the Tower Commission, the Congressional Inquiry, 164 00:09:38,871 --> 00:09:42,230 Speaker 2: and the criminal probe of the Independent Council Lawrence Walsh. 165 00:09:43,351 --> 00:09:46,230 Speaker 2: By nineteen eighty eight, the first two had completed their 166 00:09:46,271 --> 00:09:49,111 Speaker 2: work and only Walsh was still chugging along. 167 00:09:49,550 --> 00:09:53,430 Speaker 12: Independent Council Lawrence Walsh is saying nothing. Since his appointment 168 00:09:53,471 --> 00:09:57,551 Speaker 12: fourteen months ago, he thirty lawyers and fifty investigators have 169 00:09:57,710 --> 00:10:01,111 Speaker 12: poured over hundreds of thousands of documents and conducted at 170 00:10:01,190 --> 00:10:03,510 Speaker 12: least fifteen hundred witness interviews. 171 00:10:03,670 --> 00:10:06,590 Speaker 5: A federal grand jury in Washington has indicted four men 172 00:10:06,871 --> 00:10:08,631 Speaker 5: for try to help the Contras at a time when 173 00:10:08,631 --> 00:10:09,751 Speaker 5: Congress had forbidden it. 174 00:10:10,271 --> 00:10:13,711 Speaker 2: On March sixteenth, nineteen eighty eight, a grand jury brought 175 00:10:13,751 --> 00:10:18,030 Speaker 2: indictments against Oliver North, former National Security Advisor John Poindexter, 176 00:10:18,471 --> 00:10:21,830 Speaker 2: and Richard Secord, who oversaw logistics for the Contra resupply 177 00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:23,751 Speaker 2: operation and the Iran weapons sales. 178 00:10:24,271 --> 00:10:27,351 Speaker 13: All are accused of having participated in the illegal diversion 179 00:10:27,351 --> 00:10:30,790 Speaker 13: of Iranian arm sales profits to the Contras and Nicaragua. 180 00:10:30,950 --> 00:10:34,151 Speaker 7: Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North was named in sixteen counts ranging 181 00:10:34,151 --> 00:10:36,310 Speaker 7: from conspiracy to obstruction of Congress. 182 00:10:36,351 --> 00:10:39,511 Speaker 2: The charges included making false statements to Congress in response 183 00:10:39,550 --> 00:10:42,911 Speaker 2: to early inquiries about the Contra War, obstructing the Attorney 184 00:10:42,950 --> 00:10:46,111 Speaker 2: General's weekend investigation into the Iran arm sales by shredding 185 00:10:46,111 --> 00:10:49,670 Speaker 2: official documents, and defrauding the IRS in the course of 186 00:10:49,710 --> 00:10:54,071 Speaker 2: fundraising for the Contras. Those charges could plausibly be defended 187 00:10:54,111 --> 00:10:57,790 Speaker 2: as efforts to protect the President's foreign policy agenda, but 188 00:10:57,871 --> 00:11:00,391 Speaker 2: a few of the other charges Walsh brought against North 189 00:11:00,511 --> 00:11:04,391 Speaker 2: were harder to frame as acts of government service. During 190 00:11:04,391 --> 00:11:08,631 Speaker 2: their investigation, some prosecutors in the Independent Council's Office suspected 191 00:11:08,670 --> 00:11:11,191 Speaker 2: that North had somehow enriched himself as part of the 192 00:11:11,231 --> 00:11:15,311 Speaker 2: Iran Contra scheme. Their thinking was with all that money 193 00:11:15,351 --> 00:11:17,870 Speaker 2: slashing around from the arm sales and the donations to 194 00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:20,790 Speaker 2: the contras, North could have found a way to line 195 00:11:20,830 --> 00:11:24,191 Speaker 2: his own pockets. As one member of the Walsh team 196 00:11:24,231 --> 00:11:27,950 Speaker 2: reportedly told his colleagues, no jury will convict North unless 197 00:11:27,991 --> 00:11:31,550 Speaker 2: they think he's a crook. In the end, the best 198 00:11:31,631 --> 00:11:34,870 Speaker 2: evidence of self dealing Walsh found was a security fence 199 00:11:34,910 --> 00:11:37,511 Speaker 2: that North had installed at his family home and which 200 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:39,871 Speaker 2: Richard Seacord had paid for through one of the Swiss 201 00:11:39,871 --> 00:11:42,671 Speaker 2: bank accounts associated with Irankantra. 202 00:11:42,391 --> 00:11:46,751 Speaker 9: A gift by Sea Cord of the security systems. 203 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:50,511 Speaker 7: The acceptance by North of the security system. 204 00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:54,550 Speaker 2: The fence cost thirteen eight hundred dollars. Walsh characterized it 205 00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:57,551 Speaker 2: as an illegal gratuity and alleged that North had tried 206 00:11:57,550 --> 00:11:59,991 Speaker 2: to cover it up after the Iran Contra scandal broke. 207 00:12:00,590 --> 00:12:06,151 Speaker 9: North's obstruction of our investigation by developing false documents to 208 00:12:06,231 --> 00:12:08,231 Speaker 9: conceal his acceptance. 209 00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:08,391 Speaker 1: Of that gift. 210 00:12:08,950 --> 00:12:11,631 Speaker 2: North had allegedly gone onto a department store and used 211 00:12:11,631 --> 00:12:14,710 Speaker 2: a floor model typewriter to fabricate a pair of backdated 212 00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:17,071 Speaker 2: letters in which he discussed paying for the fence with 213 00:12:17,111 --> 00:12:18,590 Speaker 2: the contractor who had installed it. 214 00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:22,590 Speaker 5: Meanwhile, the Walsh investigation continues, which could mean more charges 215 00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:25,511 Speaker 5: against those named today or against others in the Iran 216 00:12:25,550 --> 00:12:26,231 Speaker 5: Contra affair. 217 00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:30,671 Speaker 2: The prospect of criminal trials for North, Poindexter, and Seacort 218 00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:33,431 Speaker 2: invited a host of new questions about how the Iran 219 00:12:33,511 --> 00:12:37,271 Speaker 2: Contra scandal would play out. Would Reagan be called to testify, 220 00:12:38,151 --> 00:12:40,910 Speaker 2: and if any of the accused were found guilty, would 221 00:12:40,950 --> 00:12:45,471 Speaker 2: they be pardoned. Reagan downplayed that possibility, but he made 222 00:12:45,511 --> 00:12:47,550 Speaker 2: clear that he was standing by Oliver North. 223 00:12:48,511 --> 00:12:52,391 Speaker 4: I still think Haley North is a hero. And at 224 00:12:52,391 --> 00:12:54,430 Speaker 4: the other hand, in any talk about what I might 225 00:12:54,471 --> 00:12:56,271 Speaker 4: do or pardons and so forth, I think with the 226 00:12:56,310 --> 00:12:59,991 Speaker 4: case before the courts, that's something I can't discuss now. 227 00:13:00,710 --> 00:13:04,670 Speaker 4: But I just have to believe that they're going to 228 00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:07,111 Speaker 4: be found innocent, because I don't think they were guilty 229 00:13:07,111 --> 00:13:08,751 Speaker 4: of any law breaking or any crime. 230 00:13:12,631 --> 00:13:15,790 Speaker 2: In the meantime, Ali North was beginning his second act. 231 00:13:16,231 --> 00:13:19,391 Speaker 7: While awaiting trial, North has been giving speeches. Last week, 232 00:13:19,471 --> 00:13:22,951 Speaker 7: this one in Virginia, raised eighteen thousand dollars for his defense. 233 00:13:23,511 --> 00:13:26,751 Speaker 10: I don't believe that there's anything wrong with faithfulness to 234 00:13:26,830 --> 00:13:28,511 Speaker 10: this country or its ideals. 235 00:13:29,151 --> 00:13:32,511 Speaker 2: North started touring the country, meeting his fans and raising 236 00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:36,070 Speaker 2: money for his legal defense fund. In the process, he 237 00:13:36,111 --> 00:13:39,391 Speaker 2: morphed into something between a politician and a motivational speaker. 238 00:13:39,471 --> 00:13:41,910 Speaker 9: Friends of Oliver North paid twenty dollars each to listen 239 00:13:41,950 --> 00:13:42,910 Speaker 9: to a pep talk this. 240 00:13:42,871 --> 00:13:45,271 Speaker 11: Morning, one hundred and fifty dollars each to hear the 241 00:13:45,310 --> 00:13:48,551 Speaker 11: man who fought Congress. They love him and his cause. 242 00:13:49,111 --> 00:13:50,110 Speaker 6: That the man's a hero. 243 00:13:50,751 --> 00:13:52,111 Speaker 1: I wish we had more likely help. 244 00:13:52,151 --> 00:13:54,790 Speaker 12: He's just what we need in America, somebody who stand 245 00:13:54,830 --> 00:13:55,751 Speaker 12: up and protect our land. 246 00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:59,190 Speaker 2: North was invited to address Washington's football team before the 247 00:13:59,231 --> 00:14:02,991 Speaker 2: Super Bowl. He also delivered the commencement speech at Liberty University, 248 00:14:03,391 --> 00:14:06,470 Speaker 2: where he was introduced by the school's founder, Jerry Folwell. 249 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:10,790 Speaker 5: The first questions always ask, why are you having an 250 00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:14,190 Speaker 5: indicted man to speak to the students at Liberty University. 251 00:14:15,351 --> 00:14:18,750 Speaker 5: I said, well, we serve a savior who was indicted. 252 00:14:18,991 --> 00:14:21,271 Speaker 11: His involvement in the Iran Contra arms deal has left 253 00:14:21,311 --> 00:14:24,071 Speaker 11: him without a job, but with a new responsibility as 254 00:14:24,151 --> 00:14:25,311 Speaker 11: conservative spokesman. 255 00:14:25,511 --> 00:14:28,911 Speaker 2: With the nineteen eighty eight election approaching, North became one 256 00:14:28,911 --> 00:14:31,311 Speaker 2: of the most popular spokesman for publican candidates. 257 00:14:31,311 --> 00:14:32,151 Speaker 1: On the campaign trail. 258 00:14:33,031 --> 00:14:36,231 Speaker 2: Pretty soon people were wondering when Ali North might make 259 00:14:36,271 --> 00:14:37,631 Speaker 2: a run for office himself. 260 00:14:38,031 --> 00:14:41,151 Speaker 7: There has been talk of a political career for Oliver North, 261 00:14:41,391 --> 00:14:44,271 Speaker 7: even though he has no experience and no money. North 262 00:14:44,551 --> 00:14:47,311 Speaker 7: is a hero to conservatives. He is now free to 263 00:14:47,311 --> 00:14:52,551 Speaker 7: speak publicly and to criticize Congress. Political careers have been built. 264 00:14:52,631 --> 00:15:01,671 Speaker 2: Unless While North traveled and prepared for his trial, Mike 265 00:15:01,830 --> 00:15:04,071 Speaker 2: Robe was hard at work on the script for Guts 266 00:15:04,071 --> 00:15:07,391 Speaker 2: and Glory. One of the questions he was asking himself 267 00:15:07,551 --> 00:15:10,151 Speaker 2: was how do you craft a multi layered character or 268 00:15:10,151 --> 00:15:12,471 Speaker 2: out of someone most viewers are going to either love 269 00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:14,551 Speaker 2: or hate before they even see the movie. 270 00:15:15,391 --> 00:15:18,991 Speaker 9: The problem that I had with Oliver North as I 271 00:15:19,071 --> 00:15:24,031 Speaker 9: got into his story was that what he believed with 272 00:15:24,151 --> 00:15:29,551 Speaker 9: all his heart was in the beginning understandable and somewhat admirable, 273 00:15:30,231 --> 00:15:35,271 Speaker 9: But he was done in in his passion and his 274 00:15:35,431 --> 00:15:42,750 Speaker 9: failure to have perspective on those acts which were illegal 275 00:15:43,191 --> 00:15:47,870 Speaker 9: and horribly detrimental to the process of government in the US. 276 00:15:49,311 --> 00:15:52,710 Speaker 2: There was another problem too. Even though the real life 277 00:15:52,751 --> 00:15:56,151 Speaker 2: story all over North was full of exciting scenes and details, 278 00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:59,791 Speaker 2: from a screenwriter's perspective, it was missing something crucial. 279 00:16:00,151 --> 00:16:04,031 Speaker 9: One of the challenges of writing the script was to 280 00:16:04,071 --> 00:16:09,511 Speaker 9: give voice to an opposing, ethical, moral, legal point of 281 00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:14,590 Speaker 9: view when it came to the Shenanigans that North was 282 00:16:15,151 --> 00:16:15,830 Speaker 9: carrying off. 283 00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:20,911 Speaker 2: As Robe saw it, Oliver North needed a foil, someone 284 00:16:20,951 --> 00:16:24,151 Speaker 2: to challenge his point of view, to generate conflict and 285 00:16:24,191 --> 00:16:28,711 Speaker 2: introduce a moral counterweight. The trouble was Robe didn't think 286 00:16:28,751 --> 00:16:32,271 Speaker 2: that person actually existed in the Reagan White House. Bud 287 00:16:32,311 --> 00:16:35,590 Speaker 2: McFarlane apparently didn't fit the bill. 288 00:16:34,791 --> 00:16:40,191 Speaker 9: And I resorted, out of necessity, frankly, to a much 289 00:16:40,311 --> 00:16:46,031 Speaker 9: used docu drama device called the composite character, and I 290 00:16:46,151 --> 00:16:48,191 Speaker 9: named him Aaron Sykes. 291 00:16:48,511 --> 00:16:53,031 Speaker 11: I'm looking for, mister Sykes. Oh that's me, Oliver North, reporting, Sir, 292 00:16:53,311 --> 00:16:54,230 Speaker 11: Major US. 293 00:16:54,111 --> 00:16:59,230 Speaker 3: Marines, Aaron Sikes, Tiger, Princeton University. Welcome to the National 294 00:16:59,231 --> 00:17:00,551 Speaker 3: Security Council, Major. 295 00:17:00,511 --> 00:17:04,631 Speaker 9: And I made him a colleague of Oliver Norse at 296 00:17:04,631 --> 00:17:09,791 Speaker 9: the National Security Council, a man who fictionally knew Oliver 297 00:17:09,791 --> 00:17:14,110 Speaker 9: from most of his career and became the voice of 298 00:17:14,671 --> 00:17:19,671 Speaker 9: reason when it came to judging Oliver North's misdeeds. Listen, 299 00:17:19,711 --> 00:17:22,671 Speaker 9: ALEI for those maps for the contras. 300 00:17:23,071 --> 00:17:26,511 Speaker 3: Yep, But I thought we weren't allowed to pass on 301 00:17:26,551 --> 00:17:28,071 Speaker 3: any kind of military intelligence. 302 00:17:28,471 --> 00:17:30,430 Speaker 10: Well, the CIA can't, I can't. 303 00:17:31,911 --> 00:17:32,911 Speaker 4: But that's not what we're. 304 00:17:32,751 --> 00:17:35,391 Speaker 1: Hearing, boy, Aaron Sykes. 305 00:17:35,870 --> 00:17:39,390 Speaker 2: Robe created a White House official with misgivings, someone who 306 00:17:39,511 --> 00:17:41,191 Speaker 2: is willing to push back against North. 307 00:17:42,071 --> 00:17:45,350 Speaker 9: There's a line I remember at one point when North 308 00:17:45,511 --> 00:17:50,871 Speaker 9: is facing expulsion from the NSC. North is our right, 309 00:17:51,271 --> 00:17:55,910 Speaker 9: and he he says to Aaron Sykes regarding all of 310 00:17:55,951 --> 00:18:01,271 Speaker 9: his transgressions, he doesn't care because the end justifies the means. 311 00:18:01,671 --> 00:18:04,031 Speaker 4: The end justifies the means. 312 00:18:04,271 --> 00:18:04,830 Speaker 3: Damn right. 313 00:18:05,031 --> 00:18:08,551 Speaker 9: And Sykes retorts, but that's not what America's about, colonel. 314 00:18:08,791 --> 00:18:11,950 Speaker 9: But you don't understand. America is about the means. 315 00:18:12,071 --> 00:18:15,390 Speaker 2: Wake up and smell the dog crap, Aaron. We're fighting 316 00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:16,511 Speaker 2: for democracy down. 317 00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:20,551 Speaker 3: There by keeping it a secret from democracy here. Sell 318 00:18:20,590 --> 00:18:21,750 Speaker 3: that somewhere else, colonel. 319 00:18:22,191 --> 00:18:27,031 Speaker 9: And that's the way in which Aaron Sykes became the 320 00:18:27,231 --> 00:18:32,271 Speaker 9: conscience of Oliver North, but also the rebuttal from so 321 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:37,751 Speaker 9: many Americans who were polarized and critical of what North represented. 322 00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:42,551 Speaker 2: With a tight deadline from CBS, Robe and his team 323 00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:44,951 Speaker 2: got started on the other major part of pre production, 324 00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:46,511 Speaker 2: finding the cast. 325 00:18:46,951 --> 00:18:51,751 Speaker 9: Once the mini series was announced, there was this national furor, 326 00:18:51,870 --> 00:18:55,110 Speaker 9: this big brujja over who should play Home? Are there 327 00:18:55,231 --> 00:18:59,311 Speaker 9: crazy things like al Pacino should play Oliver North or 328 00:18:59,711 --> 00:19:03,671 Speaker 9: vera facet is obviously Von Hall. That was very popular. 329 00:19:04,311 --> 00:19:07,871 Speaker 9: I kind of recall, however, there wasn't quite as big 330 00:19:07,911 --> 00:19:10,590 Speaker 9: as a flood of interest in playing Oliver North himself, 331 00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:13,950 Speaker 9: which is kind of ironic and maybe that can be 332 00:19:14,031 --> 00:19:16,190 Speaker 9: chalked up to liberal Hollywood. 333 00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:19,590 Speaker 2: The production team eventually founded There Oliver North in One 334 00:19:19,711 --> 00:19:23,671 Speaker 2: David Keith, a Tennessee farm boy turned up and coming actor. 335 00:19:23,711 --> 00:19:26,551 Speaker 9: Who was probably best known at the time in his 336 00:19:26,751 --> 00:19:30,670 Speaker 9: role as Richard Gear's buddy and officer and a gentleman. 337 00:19:30,911 --> 00:19:32,031 Speaker 1: I'm just not like you, Mayo. 338 00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:34,511 Speaker 4: I can't shit all over people and just sleep like 339 00:19:34,511 --> 00:19:35,311 Speaker 4: a baby at night. 340 00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:38,951 Speaker 9: And I was fine with that choice. I was fine 341 00:19:38,991 --> 00:19:42,271 Speaker 9: with David as an actor. I think he was okay 342 00:19:42,311 --> 00:19:45,511 Speaker 9: with me as a director. What I didn't know was 343 00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:49,751 Speaker 9: that he was a staunch conservative Republican and I wasn't. 344 00:19:50,071 --> 00:19:59,630 Speaker 8: Maybe bullshit to you, buddy, but I wasn't raised that way. 345 00:20:01,551 --> 00:20:03,630 Speaker 2: One of the most sought after roles in Guts and 346 00:20:03,671 --> 00:20:06,830 Speaker 2: Glory was that of Fawn Hall North secretary who had 347 00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:10,191 Speaker 2: testified before Congress about shredding documents and smuggling them out 348 00:20:10,191 --> 00:20:11,591 Speaker 2: of North's office in her clothes. 349 00:20:11,991 --> 00:20:13,910 Speaker 6: When I first moved to Hollywood, I had kind of 350 00:20:13,951 --> 00:20:18,430 Speaker 6: a little career going playing older actresses in younger flashback scenes. 351 00:20:18,991 --> 00:20:22,231 Speaker 2: That's Amy Stock. She had started her career playing the 352 00:20:22,311 --> 00:20:25,031 Speaker 2: younger version of Joan van Ark's character on the soap 353 00:20:25,031 --> 00:20:26,390 Speaker 2: opera Notts Landing. 354 00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:29,710 Speaker 6: You know, I was very generic blonde, and so when 355 00:20:29,751 --> 00:20:32,791 Speaker 6: Fawn Hall came around, Yeah, the resemblance was pretty striking. 356 00:20:33,511 --> 00:20:35,870 Speaker 2: Stock had just wrapped an arc on the hit drama 357 00:20:35,991 --> 00:20:38,591 Speaker 2: Dallas when she landed the audition for Guts and Glory. 358 00:20:38,830 --> 00:20:43,191 Speaker 6: I went for the initial call, and I'm pretty sure 359 00:20:43,551 --> 00:20:46,950 Speaker 6: it was either the shredding scene between Oliver North and 360 00:20:46,991 --> 00:20:50,711 Speaker 6: Fawn Hall. Are you sure? Hell? 361 00:20:50,830 --> 00:20:50,870 Speaker 9: No. 362 00:20:52,231 --> 00:20:55,471 Speaker 10: I wanted to show this to my grandkids, but I've 363 00:20:55,511 --> 00:20:58,831 Speaker 10: never disobeyed an order in my wife, or was. 364 00:20:58,791 --> 00:21:02,910 Speaker 6: The interview when she walks into oliverant North's office. 365 00:21:03,071 --> 00:21:05,830 Speaker 7: So you're right about the job, miss Hall. 366 00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:09,351 Speaker 11: Fawn Hall, Miss Hall, if you'd like to come aboard, 367 00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:09,991 Speaker 11: I'd be on. 368 00:21:11,551 --> 00:21:15,231 Speaker 6: And then I was called back basically because I looked 369 00:21:15,271 --> 00:21:17,751 Speaker 6: so much like her. I'd like to think is because 370 00:21:17,751 --> 00:21:20,390 Speaker 6: I was a great actress. But you know, I think 371 00:21:20,431 --> 00:21:23,231 Speaker 6: it was morcause I looked a lot like her and 372 00:21:23,271 --> 00:21:25,390 Speaker 6: then got the part and was. 373 00:21:25,991 --> 00:21:28,950 Speaker 12: Thrilled Major North's office. 374 00:21:32,511 --> 00:21:35,590 Speaker 6: And I immediately said, I want to meet Vawn Hall. 375 00:21:35,630 --> 00:21:37,991 Speaker 6: I want to talk with her. I want to get 376 00:21:37,991 --> 00:21:40,671 Speaker 6: close to her as I possibly can get about her 377 00:21:40,711 --> 00:21:41,910 Speaker 6: story and her side of things. 378 00:21:42,671 --> 00:21:45,751 Speaker 2: Stock wanted to do Faun Hall justice, both because it 379 00:21:45,791 --> 00:21:48,830 Speaker 2: was her first time playing a real person and because 380 00:21:48,830 --> 00:21:51,311 Speaker 2: she felt Hall's portrayal in the media had been rather 381 00:21:51,471 --> 00:21:52,231 Speaker 2: one dimensional. 382 00:21:52,951 --> 00:21:56,150 Speaker 6: Well, I'm just going to say it. She came across 383 00:21:56,191 --> 00:21:58,590 Speaker 6: as kind of shallow, you know, like a glory seeker 384 00:21:58,630 --> 00:22:01,870 Speaker 6: in the newspaper, and she had this tiny, minor role 385 00:22:02,551 --> 00:22:06,271 Speaker 6: important in what happened as it turns out. But a 386 00:22:06,311 --> 00:22:08,911 Speaker 6: lot of people felt that she was trying to promote 387 00:22:08,951 --> 00:22:13,071 Speaker 6: herself to during this whole thing, and I didn't want 388 00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:16,150 Speaker 6: her to come across that way, so I tried to 389 00:22:17,471 --> 00:22:19,390 Speaker 6: tried to make her as honest as possible, that she 390 00:22:19,471 --> 00:22:21,511 Speaker 6: truly believed that what she was doing was right. 391 00:22:22,350 --> 00:22:24,510 Speaker 2: Stock tried to schedule a meeting with Hall to get 392 00:22:24,551 --> 00:22:28,071 Speaker 2: a better idea of her experience and motivations, but Hall 393 00:22:28,150 --> 00:22:31,230 Speaker 2: did not want to talk. The rumor was that she 394 00:22:31,271 --> 00:22:34,271 Speaker 2: had hoped to play herself in the movie, but that 395 00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:38,031 Speaker 2: idea was ultimately shot down. As Robes said at the time, 396 00:22:38,590 --> 00:22:40,670 Speaker 2: it would have blurred the line between the illusion of 397 00:22:40,711 --> 00:22:46,870 Speaker 2: reality and reality itself. Stock did not give up. She 398 00:22:46,991 --> 00:22:49,511 Speaker 2: knew that Vaughan Hall had moved to Los Angeles after 399 00:22:49,511 --> 00:22:52,270 Speaker 2: her star turn in the Iran Contra hearings. She had 400 00:22:52,271 --> 00:22:54,630 Speaker 2: started hanging out with celebrities and was said to be 401 00:22:54,671 --> 00:22:59,190 Speaker 2: engaged to Rob Low. As it happened, Stock Scutson Glory 402 00:22:59,231 --> 00:23:02,071 Speaker 2: co star David Keith ran in the same circles as Hall, 403 00:23:03,071 --> 00:23:04,991 Speaker 2: so Stock asked him to put in a word for her, 404 00:23:05,551 --> 00:23:07,670 Speaker 2: and one night it seemed like he was going to 405 00:23:07,671 --> 00:23:08,431 Speaker 2: make the introduction. 406 00:23:09,511 --> 00:23:12,350 Speaker 6: We all met at the Chateau Marmont. David was going 407 00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:14,830 Speaker 6: to this rave which were very popular back in the 408 00:23:14,911 --> 00:23:17,791 Speaker 6: late eighties, and so he invited us to come along, 409 00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:21,630 Speaker 6: and he said, Fawn Hall will be there, and I went, oh, great, 410 00:23:21,671 --> 00:23:24,351 Speaker 6: I would just love to even meet her, So let's go. 411 00:23:25,031 --> 00:23:28,231 Speaker 2: The party was in the Hollywood Hills. The guest list 412 00:23:28,231 --> 00:23:30,590 Speaker 2: included celebrities from the A List to the Z List, 413 00:23:31,071 --> 00:23:32,671 Speaker 2: and the music was loud. 414 00:23:34,471 --> 00:23:37,511 Speaker 6: Some kind of eighties pop crap, you know, the stuff 415 00:23:37,551 --> 00:23:39,510 Speaker 6: that goes boom jiga, boom jaga book, you know, and 416 00:23:39,551 --> 00:23:42,431 Speaker 6: you just can't really think. And there are a lot 417 00:23:42,431 --> 00:23:44,751 Speaker 6: of people around, and one of them was Madonna, and 418 00:23:44,791 --> 00:23:47,671 Speaker 6: she was sitting at David's table. And so I got 419 00:23:47,671 --> 00:23:50,190 Speaker 6: to meet Madonna and it was great. In Fawn Hall, 420 00:23:50,791 --> 00:23:54,150 Speaker 6: she was there. I walked up to her and I said, Hi, 421 00:23:54,231 --> 00:23:56,511 Speaker 6: my name is Amy Stock and I will be playing 422 00:23:56,551 --> 00:24:03,351 Speaker 6: you in Guts and Glory. And honestly, she gave me 423 00:24:03,390 --> 00:24:10,911 Speaker 6: a look. I don't even remember her saying hello. Necessary 424 00:24:11,271 --> 00:24:13,231 Speaker 6: she just kind of walked off. 425 00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:16,911 Speaker 2: With that Stock let it go. Hall just wasn't going 426 00:24:16,951 --> 00:24:20,150 Speaker 2: to talk to her. Thirty years later, she declined to 427 00:24:20,191 --> 00:24:26,670 Speaker 2: talk to me too. Guts and Glory started filming in 428 00:24:26,711 --> 00:24:30,110 Speaker 2: Los Angeles in the winter of nineteen eighty nine, at 429 00:24:30,110 --> 00:24:33,110 Speaker 2: almost the same exact time, the trial of Oliver North 430 00:24:33,191 --> 00:24:41,231 Speaker 2: was getting under way in a Washington courtroom. 431 00:24:41,511 --> 00:24:44,630 Speaker 14: After nearly a year of legal wrangling, the trial of 432 00:24:44,711 --> 00:24:48,271 Speaker 14: former White House aid Oliver North began today in Federal 433 00:24:48,311 --> 00:24:49,791 Speaker 14: District Court in Washington. 434 00:24:50,150 --> 00:24:53,511 Speaker 2: From the outset, North's attorney and the Independent Council's office 435 00:24:53,551 --> 00:24:57,311 Speaker 2: were locked in a procedural battle over evidence. The fact 436 00:24:57,311 --> 00:25:00,830 Speaker 2: that North and Poindexter's immunized testimony before Congress could not 437 00:25:00,870 --> 00:25:03,511 Speaker 2: be used against them meant that Lawrence Walsh and his 438 00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:06,350 Speaker 2: prosecutors could not rely on it in any way while 439 00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:10,430 Speaker 2: making their case. That didn't just mean the prosecutor couldn't 440 00:25:10,471 --> 00:25:12,830 Speaker 2: refer to it. It meant that none of their witnesses 441 00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:13,350 Speaker 2: could either. 442 00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:18,110 Speaker 14: North's attorney's arguments that grand jury witnesses had been exposed 443 00:25:18,110 --> 00:25:20,910 Speaker 14: to the highly publicized congressional testimony. 444 00:25:21,071 --> 00:25:24,031 Speaker 2: The judge in North's trial instructed witnesses not to rely 445 00:25:24,150 --> 00:25:27,471 Speaker 2: on any information they'd learned from his immunized congressional testimony, 446 00:25:28,031 --> 00:25:30,630 Speaker 2: but that was hard to enforce, and there was always 447 00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:34,590 Speaker 2: a chance something it admissible would slip out. That created 448 00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:38,511 Speaker 2: a huge risk for Walsh's prosecution. It also presented an 449 00:25:38,551 --> 00:25:41,511 Speaker 2: opportunity for north legal team should they find themselves having 450 00:25:41,551 --> 00:25:46,271 Speaker 2: to appeal an unfavorable verdict. Instead of a military uniform, 451 00:25:46,471 --> 00:25:48,831 Speaker 2: North wore a simple blue suit to the first day 452 00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:52,471 Speaker 2: of his trial. Sitting next to his lawyer, Brendan Sullivan, 453 00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:56,350 Speaker 2: he filled multiple yellow legal pads with notes. The trial 454 00:25:56,431 --> 00:25:58,471 Speaker 2: was covered by all the major networks on. 455 00:25:58,471 --> 00:26:02,991 Speaker 14: The witness stand today former Reagan administration Attorney General Edwin Mees. 456 00:26:03,191 --> 00:26:06,111 Speaker 5: Today's witness was Adolpho Cooleero, a rebel leader who described 457 00:26:06,191 --> 00:26:08,431 Speaker 5: North as quote the savior of the contrast. 458 00:26:08,590 --> 00:26:08,910 Speaker 1: Oliver. 459 00:26:09,031 --> 00:26:12,430 Speaker 3: North's former White House Secretary, Vaughn Hall, came to court 460 00:26:12,431 --> 00:26:15,670 Speaker 3: today to testify at her former bosses trial. Haul also 461 00:26:15,751 --> 00:26:18,311 Speaker 3: total of the intense atmosphere in North's office and now 462 00:26:18,311 --> 00:26:21,590 Speaker 3: he would occasionally break the tension with jokes, including some 463 00:26:21,751 --> 00:26:24,191 Speaker 3: about how he may end up going to prison. She said, 464 00:26:24,191 --> 00:26:26,390 Speaker 3: he's a man with a wonderful sense of humor. 465 00:26:32,110 --> 00:26:35,230 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in California, the cast and crew of Guts and 466 00:26:35,271 --> 00:26:38,110 Speaker 2: Glory were trying to make their deadline. They had about 467 00:26:38,191 --> 00:26:40,910 Speaker 2: forty days to shoot the entire film. 468 00:26:40,711 --> 00:26:43,671 Speaker 9: And what happens when you do these things is that 469 00:26:43,711 --> 00:26:49,911 Speaker 9: the network had already slotted the mini series for May sweeps. 470 00:26:51,231 --> 00:26:54,390 Speaker 9: That's the period of time when the network is judge 471 00:26:54,911 --> 00:27:00,631 Speaker 9: on its ratings. So we were pushed. We ended up 472 00:27:00,951 --> 00:27:05,991 Speaker 9: shooting the entire film in the Los Angeles area with 473 00:27:06,311 --> 00:27:08,751 Speaker 9: just two days at the end of the schedule in Washington, 474 00:27:08,870 --> 00:27:12,830 Speaker 9: d C. To pick up backdrops that would ground us 475 00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:14,511 Speaker 9: in real world. 476 00:27:15,150 --> 00:27:17,870 Speaker 2: Robe and his crew arrived in Washington. A few weeks 477 00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:20,910 Speaker 2: into North trial. At one point they were shooting a 478 00:27:20,951 --> 00:27:23,551 Speaker 2: scene of the Jefferson Memorial less than two miles from 479 00:27:23,551 --> 00:27:27,870 Speaker 2: the Federal courthouse. In the scene, Oliver North tries to 480 00:27:27,870 --> 00:27:31,951 Speaker 2: recruit Richard Secord to run the Contrary Supply Operation. Director 481 00:27:32,031 --> 00:27:35,150 Speaker 2: wants you, General, and your country needs you. 482 00:27:35,791 --> 00:27:39,431 Speaker 13: I'm a businessman now, and this is a business proposition 483 00:27:39,751 --> 00:27:41,791 Speaker 13: with the usual markup the CIA is. 484 00:27:41,791 --> 00:27:42,311 Speaker 15: Making up for. 485 00:27:42,511 --> 00:27:45,190 Speaker 2: Writing in The New York Times, Maureen Dowd described it 486 00:27:45,191 --> 00:27:47,671 Speaker 2: as a collision of art and life being played out 487 00:27:47,791 --> 00:27:51,830 Speaker 2: back to the future style. By this point, the relationship 488 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:55,591 Speaker 2: between Mike Robe and David Keith had become strained. As 489 00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:58,350 Speaker 2: it turned out their political differences placed them at odds 490 00:27:58,350 --> 00:28:01,110 Speaker 2: on the question of who Oliver North was and how 491 00:28:01,150 --> 00:28:02,511 Speaker 2: he should be portrayed in the movie. 492 00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:09,071 Speaker 9: David liked, essentially that North said what he believed, and 493 00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:11,351 Speaker 9: believed what he said and acted on it. 494 00:28:11,551 --> 00:28:14,311 Speaker 10: Now, once again, the same gang of reds are establishing 495 00:28:14,350 --> 00:28:17,991 Speaker 10: a potential nuclear base right in our own hemisphere. 496 00:28:17,911 --> 00:28:22,191 Speaker 11: In front of us. Mister President, We're not ready to. 497 00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:24,991 Speaker 4: Lick a pissant islands or what's become of us. 498 00:28:26,031 --> 00:28:28,711 Speaker 9: There was a period in a scene where Oliver North 499 00:28:28,911 --> 00:28:34,791 Speaker 9: was hospitalized during a rocky time in his marriage, during 500 00:28:36,271 --> 00:28:39,831 Speaker 9: the time he had come back from Vietnam, and he 501 00:28:39,911 --> 00:28:42,311 Speaker 9: was hospitalized for emotional. 502 00:28:41,791 --> 00:28:46,871 Speaker 13: Stress, emotional distress, whatever that means. 503 00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:52,151 Speaker 9: That's documented. But when I tried to get David to 504 00:28:52,831 --> 00:28:58,271 Speaker 9: behave as someone undergoing emotional stress, he felt I was 505 00:28:58,311 --> 00:29:02,671 Speaker 9: trying to make Oliver North look crazy, and I tried 506 00:29:02,671 --> 00:29:05,511 Speaker 9: to say, David, that's why he's in the hospital. 507 00:29:06,631 --> 00:29:09,831 Speaker 2: David Keith, who didn't respond to interview requests for this podcast, 508 00:29:10,351 --> 00:29:12,791 Speaker 2: told People magazine that he had tried to make North 509 00:29:12,831 --> 00:29:14,911 Speaker 2: more of a hero and Robe had tried to make 510 00:29:14,951 --> 00:29:17,751 Speaker 2: him less of one. We probably wound up with something 511 00:29:17,751 --> 00:29:18,470 Speaker 2: around the truth. 512 00:29:19,231 --> 00:29:22,710 Speaker 9: In the end. I kind of felt like David's defense 513 00:29:23,511 --> 00:29:26,951 Speaker 9: of Norse ideology kind of fit the character. I mean, 514 00:29:27,671 --> 00:29:29,831 Speaker 9: that's kind of who Oliver North was. 515 00:29:33,311 --> 00:29:34,311 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. 516 00:29:42,031 --> 00:29:45,311 Speaker 7: The Oliver North jury began debating criminal charges today against 517 00:29:45,351 --> 00:29:47,911 Speaker 7: the former Reagan White House aid with strong ties. 518 00:29:47,991 --> 00:29:51,671 Speaker 2: After eight long weeks, Oliver North's trial began winding down. 519 00:29:52,591 --> 00:29:55,831 Speaker 2: On April twenty first, nineteen eighty nine, the jury began 520 00:29:55,871 --> 00:29:56,791 Speaker 2: its deliberations. 521 00:29:57,071 --> 00:30:00,071 Speaker 13: The fate of Oliver North now rests with the jury 522 00:30:00,471 --> 00:30:01,631 Speaker 13: in his charge to the jury. 523 00:30:01,631 --> 00:30:04,191 Speaker 2: In the midst of those deliberations, the cast and crew 524 00:30:04,231 --> 00:30:06,311 Speaker 2: of Guts and Glory were in the final days of 525 00:30:06,391 --> 00:30:08,591 Speaker 2: promotional blitz before the premiere of their movie. 526 00:30:08,991 --> 00:30:12,791 Speaker 3: David Keith is Oliver North, Peter Boyle Is, John Poindexter, 527 00:30:13,071 --> 00:30:14,911 Speaker 3: Amy stock pointon is Bonn Hall. 528 00:30:15,111 --> 00:30:17,351 Speaker 2: David Keith appeared on the cover of TV Guide in 529 00:30:17,391 --> 00:30:21,230 Speaker 2: a white marine dress uniform. Journalist Ben Bradley Jr. Went 530 00:30:21,271 --> 00:30:23,431 Speaker 2: on Fresh Air with Terry Gross to talk about the 531 00:30:23,431 --> 00:30:24,511 Speaker 2: adaptation of his book. 532 00:30:24,711 --> 00:30:27,710 Speaker 16: You describe in your book the phone call that President 533 00:30:27,751 --> 00:30:31,710 Speaker 16: Reagan made to Oliver North, and he ended, according to report, 534 00:30:31,711 --> 00:30:34,510 Speaker 16: this phone conversation by saying to North, I'd say this 535 00:30:34,551 --> 00:30:36,991 Speaker 16: is going to make a great movie one day. I 536 00:30:37,031 --> 00:30:38,871 Speaker 16: think it's kind of funny that your book is actually 537 00:30:38,911 --> 00:30:41,991 Speaker 16: becoming the first movie about Oliver North. 538 00:30:42,271 --> 00:30:42,471 Speaker 10: Yeah. 539 00:30:42,511 --> 00:30:45,391 Speaker 15: And actually it's even funnier that that very scene is 540 00:30:45,431 --> 00:30:49,271 Speaker 15: in the movie, which when I saw it makes me laugh. 541 00:30:49,431 --> 00:30:52,911 Speaker 15: It's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, I guess, and 542 00:30:53,671 --> 00:30:56,671 Speaker 15: I'm satisfied that the film will do the book and 543 00:30:57,391 --> 00:30:58,871 Speaker 15: history justice. 544 00:31:02,071 --> 00:31:06,231 Speaker 2: On April thirtieth, nine days after jury deliberations began, Part 545 00:31:06,351 --> 00:31:10,031 Speaker 2: one of Guts and Glory premiered on CBS. 546 00:31:09,191 --> 00:31:13,710 Speaker 7: As good men to risk their lives for Notted, you 547 00:31:13,831 --> 00:31:14,511 Speaker 7: fight to win. 548 00:31:15,991 --> 00:31:18,951 Speaker 2: It was the thirty first most watched program of the week, 549 00:31:19,591 --> 00:31:22,831 Speaker 2: behind Bionic Showdown, The Return of the six Million Dollar 550 00:31:22,911 --> 00:31:25,871 Speaker 2: Man and The Bionic Woman. The second half of Guts 551 00:31:25,871 --> 00:31:27,911 Speaker 2: and Glory was set to air a few days later. 552 00:31:28,071 --> 00:31:31,591 Speaker 4: A secret operation explodes, but taking the heat could destroy 553 00:31:31,671 --> 00:31:32,231 Speaker 4: Oliver North. 554 00:31:32,271 --> 00:31:33,831 Speaker 11: They've done anything criminal. 555 00:31:34,591 --> 00:31:37,191 Speaker 12: The stunning conclusion of Guts and Glory tomorrow. 556 00:31:39,871 --> 00:31:43,230 Speaker 2: Reviews for Guts and Glory were not positive. It is 557 00:31:43,271 --> 00:31:46,151 Speaker 2: fitting that television is rushing to tell North's story before 558 00:31:46,191 --> 00:31:48,511 Speaker 2: it is concluded, wrote a TV critic for the San 559 00:31:48,551 --> 00:31:52,391 Speaker 2: Diego Union Tribune, and particularly fitting that a story so 560 00:31:52,511 --> 00:31:55,351 Speaker 2: confusing has become even more muddied when told in a 561 00:31:55,391 --> 00:31:56,231 Speaker 2: television drama. 562 00:31:56,951 --> 00:31:59,151 Speaker 9: I think some of the critics didn't quite know what 563 00:31:59,191 --> 00:32:02,631 Speaker 9: to make of it. They had their expectations. The ratings 564 00:32:02,671 --> 00:32:04,311 Speaker 9: in the ann weren't particularly great. 565 00:32:04,831 --> 00:32:07,351 Speaker 2: Critics were especially harsh about a scene in which Oliver 566 00:32:07,471 --> 00:32:09,990 Speaker 2: North flew a plane through a firefight in Central America 567 00:32:10,391 --> 00:32:15,871 Speaker 2: to rescue a group of soldiers. Get the Wounded, Get 568 00:32:15,951 --> 00:32:20,591 Speaker 2: thee In his book, Ben Bradley Junior had noted that 569 00:32:20,631 --> 00:32:22,911 Speaker 2: the story may have been apocryphal because no one had 570 00:32:22,911 --> 00:32:25,950 Speaker 2: ever heard of North being able to fly. But the 571 00:32:25,951 --> 00:32:28,431 Speaker 2: main problem, according to a review in The Buffalo Times, 572 00:32:29,071 --> 00:32:31,791 Speaker 2: was that America seemed to be Ali to death already. 573 00:32:32,111 --> 00:32:36,111 Speaker 9: I think the story had evaporated by the time we 574 00:32:36,151 --> 00:32:37,991 Speaker 9: actually got on the air, even though we got on 575 00:32:38,031 --> 00:32:40,950 Speaker 9: the air as quickly as we could. I mean, people 576 00:32:41,071 --> 00:32:43,751 Speaker 9: had had enough of Oliver North. One way or the other. 577 00:32:44,431 --> 00:32:50,950 Speaker 9: It had been prick Asi and fried and stewed Ali Mania. 578 00:32:50,991 --> 00:32:54,911 Speaker 1: It seemed was not a phenomenon. It was a fad. 579 00:32:59,671 --> 00:33:02,031 Speaker 7: The jury now has spoken and answered the question of 580 00:33:02,071 --> 00:33:04,231 Speaker 7: Oliver North's guilt in the Arms for Iran? 581 00:33:04,391 --> 00:33:05,551 Speaker 8: What happened to the money case? 582 00:33:06,111 --> 00:33:09,831 Speaker 2: On Thursday May fourth, nineteen eighty nine, two days after 583 00:33:10,231 --> 00:33:13,671 Speaker 2: And Glory finished airing on CBS, the jury in North 584 00:33:13,831 --> 00:33:15,071 Speaker 2: trial returned to verdict. 585 00:33:15,271 --> 00:33:15,991 Speaker 10: Leading the news. 586 00:33:16,031 --> 00:33:19,671 Speaker 13: This Thursday, a jury found Oliver North guilty on three 587 00:33:19,711 --> 00:33:24,071 Speaker 13: of twelve counts. The guilties game on charges of obstructing Congress, 588 00:33:24,391 --> 00:33:28,311 Speaker 13: destroying government documents, and accepting an illegal gratuity in the 589 00:33:28,351 --> 00:33:30,431 Speaker 13: form of a security system at his hall. 590 00:33:30,631 --> 00:33:34,551 Speaker 2: On all the other charges, the jury found North not guilty, 591 00:33:34,671 --> 00:33:36,951 Speaker 2: an indication that they didn't see him as a ringleader 592 00:33:37,111 --> 00:33:38,431 Speaker 2: or even a rogue operator. 593 00:33:38,711 --> 00:33:40,471 Speaker 14: But it seemed to be saying, we're not going to 594 00:33:40,551 --> 00:33:41,391 Speaker 14: throw the book at him. 595 00:33:41,391 --> 00:33:43,031 Speaker 8: This was the low man on the totem pole. 596 00:33:43,311 --> 00:33:45,711 Speaker 14: So well, we agree he did something wrong, but we're 597 00:33:45,711 --> 00:33:46,950 Speaker 14: not going to buy all of it. 598 00:33:46,991 --> 00:33:48,071 Speaker 4: We're not going to pile on. 599 00:33:48,431 --> 00:33:51,991 Speaker 2: North immediately appealed to verdict and took the opportunity to 600 00:33:51,991 --> 00:33:52,791 Speaker 2: address the media. 601 00:33:53,351 --> 00:33:56,871 Speaker 10: Just a very brief statement, that is that today's verdict 602 00:33:57,151 --> 00:34:01,190 Speaker 10: by the jury here in Washington is a partial vindication 603 00:34:01,511 --> 00:34:04,671 Speaker 10: for what has been for my family in me a 604 00:34:04,831 --> 00:34:09,151 Speaker 10: very long and difficult process. We will continue this battle. 605 00:34:10,311 --> 00:34:12,631 Speaker 10: We will be fully vindicated. Thank you. 606 00:34:16,031 --> 00:34:18,830 Speaker 2: Guts and Glory ended up being the first adaptation of 607 00:34:18,831 --> 00:34:22,790 Speaker 2: Iran Contra to be released, and strangely, it was kind 608 00:34:22,791 --> 00:34:23,391 Speaker 2: of the last. 609 00:34:24,471 --> 00:34:26,151 Speaker 1: Though there have been a few feature. 610 00:34:25,791 --> 00:34:29,031 Speaker 2: Films about the Contra war, Hollywood has failed, at least 611 00:34:29,031 --> 00:34:32,111 Speaker 2: so far, to produce one definitive account of the whole saga. 612 00:34:33,151 --> 00:34:35,671 Speaker 2: There is no All the President's Men for Iran Contra, 613 00:34:36,871 --> 00:34:39,391 Speaker 2: and though Oliver North has held on to various forms 614 00:34:39,391 --> 00:34:42,311 Speaker 2: of relevance over the years, by appearing on Fox News 615 00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:46,351 Speaker 2: leading the NRA and running unsuccessfully for a Senate seat. 616 00:34:47,031 --> 00:34:48,551 Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that he is not 617 00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:52,031 Speaker 2: endured as an object of fascination. I've been trying to 618 00:34:52,031 --> 00:34:56,831 Speaker 2: figure out why why North didn't last, why Iran Contra 619 00:34:56,871 --> 00:35:00,750 Speaker 2: didn't last, why Guts and Glory ended up being Hollywood's 620 00:35:00,791 --> 00:35:04,790 Speaker 2: only attempt to capture the story. Mike Robe thinks a 621 00:35:04,791 --> 00:35:07,311 Speaker 2: big part of the problem is Oliver North himself. 622 00:35:08,270 --> 00:35:16,111 Speaker 9: Ultimately, American people judged that their est was no complexity 623 00:35:16,391 --> 00:35:24,830 Speaker 9: or intellect or reason to keep following this one dimensional marine. 624 00:35:25,071 --> 00:35:27,911 Speaker 7: Frankly, a marine does what it takes. 625 00:35:28,391 --> 00:35:29,951 Speaker 11: I fight any way I can. 626 00:35:30,190 --> 00:35:34,551 Speaker 4: Bite, scratch lie, because in the end, America's worth it. 627 00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:38,831 Speaker 2: The Washington Post review of Guts and Glory summed it 628 00:35:38,911 --> 00:35:42,191 Speaker 2: up nicely, saying that North, as portrayed by David Keith, 629 00:35:42,270 --> 00:35:44,390 Speaker 2: did not live up to the status of tragic hero 630 00:35:44,871 --> 00:35:48,270 Speaker 2: because his flaws were mundane and his heroic self aggrandizing. 631 00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:51,750 Speaker 2: I think that's true about Oliver North as portrayed by 632 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:54,911 Speaker 2: Oliver North too. Even when he published his memoir in 633 00:35:54,991 --> 00:35:58,470 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, North came across as a man without 634 00:35:58,551 --> 00:36:01,671 Speaker 2: much capacity for self doubt or inner conflict about the 635 00:36:01,671 --> 00:36:05,671 Speaker 2: events of Iran Contra. After the sugar High of Alimania, 636 00:36:06,270 --> 00:36:09,631 Speaker 2: it just wasn't that much fun to keep thinking about him, 637 00:36:10,111 --> 00:36:20,470 Speaker 2: so he faded away. There's another theory I've heard about 638 00:36:20,471 --> 00:36:23,391 Speaker 2: why Iran Contra isn't more prominent in our collective memory. 639 00:36:24,351 --> 00:36:27,991 Speaker 2: The theory is basically that the ending sucked. Instead of 640 00:36:27,991 --> 00:36:33,031 Speaker 2: crescendoing into impeachment proceedings or prison time, Iran Contra evaporated gradually. 641 00:36:34,791 --> 00:36:38,510 Speaker 2: One year after his trial, North conviction was overturned because 642 00:36:38,511 --> 00:36:41,911 Speaker 2: of concerns over witness testimony being tainted by immunized statements. 643 00:36:42,831 --> 00:36:45,230 Speaker 2: As for Ronald Reagan, he got to write off into 644 00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:48,151 Speaker 2: the sunset as a triumphant two term president, succeeded by 645 00:36:48,151 --> 00:36:49,671 Speaker 2: his VP, George H. W. 646 00:36:49,871 --> 00:36:50,951 Speaker 1: Bush. 647 00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:54,591 Speaker 2: As it turned out, Bush had some ideas of his 648 00:36:54,671 --> 00:37:09,071 Speaker 2: own about how Iran Contra should end. On the next 649 00:37:09,111 --> 00:37:13,471 Speaker 2: and final episode to Fiasco, the Independent Council's Office tries 650 00:37:13,511 --> 00:37:16,790 Speaker 2: to finish its work on Iran Contra while contending with 651 00:37:16,911 --> 00:37:18,310 Speaker 2: two presidents at once. 652 00:37:19,151 --> 00:37:25,230 Speaker 3: The three leading television channels ran the story of the 653 00:37:25,311 --> 00:37:29,270 Speaker 3: Vice President and all help brokeloves. 654 00:37:29,511 --> 00:37:32,310 Speaker 2: For a list of books, articles, and documentaries, we used 655 00:37:32,351 --> 00:37:32,991 Speaker 2: in our research. 656 00:37:33,351 --> 00:37:34,791 Speaker 1: Follow the link in the show notes. 657 00:37:35,511 --> 00:37:38,750 Speaker 2: Fiasco is a production of Prolog Projects and it's distributed 658 00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:43,271 Speaker 2: by Pushkin Industries. Shows produced by Andrew Parsons, Madeline kaplan 659 00:37:43,551 --> 00:37:48,031 Speaker 2: Ula Kulpa and me Leon Mayfock. Our editor was Camilla Hammer. 660 00:37:48,471 --> 00:37:52,071 Speaker 2: Our researcher was Francis Carr, with additional archival research from 661 00:37:52,111 --> 00:37:56,310 Speaker 2: Caitlin Nicholas. Our music is by Nick Silvester. Our theme 662 00:37:56,391 --> 00:37:59,551 Speaker 2: song is by Spatial Relations. Our artwork is by Teddy 663 00:37:59,591 --> 00:38:03,351 Speaker 2: Blanks at Chips and y Audio, mixed by Rob Buyers, 664 00:38:03,471 --> 00:38:07,710 Speaker 2: Michael Rayfield and Johnny Vince Evans. Copyright council provided by 665 00:38:07,710 --> 00:38:13,231 Speaker 2: Peter Yassi at Yass Butler Po Thanks to Truechivmovies, dot Net, 666 00:38:13,551 --> 00:38:18,191 Speaker 2: Eddie Brandt, Saturday, Mattinee, Ann Roe, Robert Papazian, Jim Hirsch, 667 00:38:18,511 --> 00:38:23,311 Speaker 2: Jay Weston, Michelle McGonagall, the Writers Guild Foundation, the Paley Center, 668 00:38:23,591 --> 00:38:26,591 Speaker 2: as well as Sam Graham Felson, Katya kum Kova and 669 00:38:26,671 --> 00:38:31,351 Speaker 2: SIREA Shockley Special. Thanks to Luminary and thank you for listening. 670 00:38:44,190 --> 00:38:48,151 Speaker 2: Binge the entire season of Fiasco Iran Contra ad free 671 00:38:48,190 --> 00:38:51,551 Speaker 2: by subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Sign up on the Fiasco 672 00:38:51,591 --> 00:38:54,951 Speaker 2: show page on Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm 673 00:38:54,991 --> 00:38:59,471 Speaker 2: slash Plus. Pushkin Plus subscribers can access ad free episodes, 674 00:38:59,591 --> 00:39:03,471 Speaker 2: full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin 675 00:39:03,551 --> 00:39:04,151 Speaker 2: podcasts