WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 163 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 Colzon Media. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.680 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.360 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.439 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:18.919 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:20.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:22.680 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:24.759 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.040 This is Michael Phillips, an historian in Texas. I'm the 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:34.239 author of the history of racism in Dallas called Bite Metropolis, 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.479 an upcoming book on the history of eugenics in Texas 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:39.200 called The Purifying Knife. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.159 And I'm Stephen Monticelli, an investigative reporter and columnist in 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.680 Texas who covers extremism and fire right movements, as well 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.159 as dark money and other fun things. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:54.320 In twenty twenty two, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito author 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:59.840 the Dobbs Versus Jackson Women's Health Organization decision. Alito's majority 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:02.960 of opinion reversed the landmark nineteen seventy three Roe v. 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:07.160 Wade outcome that established a woman's constitutional right to an 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.959 abortion to the first trimester, permitted states to impose limits 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.839 to protect the health of the mother in the second trimester, 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.880 and gave states leeway to ban abortions and the final trimester. 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.720 The Road decision, based in a Texas case, had survived 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.679 with modification for almost half century. In Dobbs, however, the 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.520 Supreme Court denied that women held a constitutional right to 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.000 an abortion and gave the individual states the power to 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.880 determine whether such procedures were legal at any point during 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:43.000 a pregnancy. In the Dobbs case, Alito seemed to suggest 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.040 that the concept of abortion rights was a modern aberration. 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:53.480 MSNBC pundit Lawrence O'Donnell zeroed in on one key phrase 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:54.640 in Alito's opinion. 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.520 Samuel Alito says that a right to abortion services is 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.160 not quote deeply rooted in this nation's history. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.600 Whatever one might think about Alito as a jurist, he 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.000 fails as an historian. In fact, for much of American history, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.040 abortion was quite accepted. When men first formed the American 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.079 Medical Association in the eighteen forties, they had to wage 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.480 a campaign against abortion, in part to eliminate competition for 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:24.880 patients from midwives, who were the primary provider of such services. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.800 The nineteenth century, anti abortion laws focused on the health 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.960 and safety of women primarily, and not the life of 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.120 the fetus as the modern laws tend to do, and 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.560 the anti abortion campaign at the time itself had to 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.880 do not just with limiting women's autonomy, but also with 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.160 racism and anxiety over immigration. 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.040 Through it all, Texas became a central battlefront in the 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:52.480 culture wars surrounding women's bodily autonomy. One group of Texans 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.760 won women the right to an abortion in the Road case, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.800 while another worked almost immediately to reverse row and to 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:05.600 criminalized choice. Meanwhile, a Dallas district attorney, Henry Wade, played 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.360 an under appreciated and under explored role in the battle. 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.600 The often dower Puritans who established the British colony of 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.239 Massachusetts in the sixteen twenties may have created an oppressive theocracy, 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.040 but they proved surprisingly indifferent when it came to women's 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.840 decisions when and if to have children. Based on British 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.080 common law, the colonies in New England allowed abortion up 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.919 to the quickening, which is when women can first feel 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.519 fetal movement. In that era, it was the first clear 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:39.320 sign of impregnation. This moment varies widely for women, but 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.800 it generally happens during the fourth or fifth month of pregnancy. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.160 Women typically endured seven to eight live births, and the 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.120 experience was often grueling and life threatening, particularly as they 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:56.200 got older. Seeking relief and physical safety, women frequently terminated 0:03:56.200 --> 0:04:00.000 their pregnancy in a variety of ways from Native Americans, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.920 as white women learned which local herbs were considered a 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.880 bord of facins. White and black women also sought advice 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:11.120 from midwives. It provided wisdom on how to relieve mensual cramps, 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:17.320 Yet pregnant and breastfeed midwives provided abortion services as well. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.960 Women attempted to end pregnancy with varying degrees of success 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.960 by consuming penny royalty or savn juniper, or a combination 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.679 of iron and quinine. They took hot baths or rode 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.560 horses bareback in order to cause a miscarriage. 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:37.840 Before the eighteen forties, such actions provoked little or no controversy. 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.280 Even the Catholic Church adhered to the quickening standard until 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.920 after the American Civil War. By the eighteen forties, abortion 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.520 had become so deeply rooted in American history and culture 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:52.760 that abortionists advertise their services, albeit in euphemistic but widely 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.680 understood terms. These advertisements were carried in popular newspapers such 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.240 as The New York Sun and the Boston Daily Time. 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.279 Abortionists told patients they could provide quote French cures for 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.599 what was referred to as quote menstrual blockage. 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.760 A dramanic shift happened after the eighteen forty seven founding 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.560 of the American Medical Association. Established by men, the organization 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.880 began lobbing states to ban abortions in an attempt to 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:25.680 discredit midwives, who represented major competition for female patients. Medical 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.640 journalists began to dismiss midwives and male doctors who provided 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:35.400 abortion services as dangerous, ill informed quacks. AMA members were 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.960 still unaware that germs existed, and they didn't clean their 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.839 hands or equipment when examining wounds or during surgeries, thus 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.600 causing many of their patients to die of sepsis. So 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.960 called regular doctors often used dangerous treatments such as bleeding 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.440 to treat illnesses. Yet, in spite of their high body count, 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.200 AMA members persuaded major press outlets such as The New 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.119 York Times the sensationally cover cases in which women died 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.840 during abortions performed by midwives. This created momentum for the 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:12.560 enactment by eighteen eighty of laws banning and criminalizing abortion. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.320 Every single state except Kentucky were stake courts that already 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.359 rendered such procedures illegal. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.039 The drive against abortion wasn't all that it seemed. Abortion 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:26.200 opponents were worried that the wrong women were. In other words, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.800 white wealthy women were choosing to limit how many children 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.000 they had. The fertility rate for white women fell by 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.680 almost fifty five percent between eighteen fifty and nineteen thirty. 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:41.839 Horatio Storer, the leading anti abortion crusader at the time, 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:47.719 railed against non infanto mania among upper class white women, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.960 a trend that the sociologist Edward A. Ross would call 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.599 quote race suicide. President Theodore Roosevelt later argued that white 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.800 women had a patriotic duty to bear at least four children. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.640 Logically fit Anglo Saxons quote have only one child or 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.080 no child at all, while the Irish, Italians and Jews 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.560 have quote eight or nine or ten. Theodore Roosevelt warned, 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:17.040 it is simply a question of the multiplication table. He wrote, 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:22.000 the future of American civilization, Roosevelt believed depended on reproductive math. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.400 White women could not be allowed to become voluntary non 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.680 combatants in a racial demographic war. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.320 In the eighteen eighties, Texas was still seen by much 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.800 of the country as an unsophisticated frontier, but was home 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:40.160 to a highly influential doctor with a national following, Ferdinand 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:44.240 Eugene Daniel, who became editor of the Texas Medical Journal, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.880 a eugenesis with a national audience. The surgeonets served in 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.840 the Confederate Army and argued that masturbation and homosexuality were 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.960 dangerous indications that individual came from a family line that 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:02.720 not fully evolved or was biologed logically regressing fully evolved 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.640 individuals he believed had less of a sex drive and 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:10.680 kept their minds on intellectual pursuits. Daniel argued that before 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.160 the Civil War, Americans had endangered their future by bringing 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.720 Africans into the country as slaves, and were compounding the 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.120 error by allowing what he called quote the dregs of 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.960 Europe Jews, Greeks, Italians, and others to immigrate to the 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:29.160 United States. The only way to say America's biological future, 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.679 he said, was by cash strating not just gay men 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.959 and masturbators who would cause the evolution of white America 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.360 to swing in reverse, but also to sterilized as sexually promiscuous, 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:44.480 the mentally ill, those with disabilities, and the criminal element 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:45.080 as well. 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:51.520 Daniel could be surprisingly supportive of abortion rights under limited circumstances, however, 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.520 if it ensured that well off white women had long 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.480 and fruitful careers as mothers. Daniel wrote approvingly of how 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.920 electric currents might be used to end ectopic pregnancies, cases 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.679 in which fertilize eggs attached to the Filippian tubes or 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.040 elsewhere outside the uterus, which can be dangerous and can 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:14.640 kill or leave a woman infertile. Both outcomes undesirable for 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.480 a eugenicist like Daniel, who cared for fit white patients. 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.320 In eighteen eighty seven issue, he published an account of 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.440 a debate among doctors held by the Medical Society and Terrell, Texas. 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.760 The topic was whether saving the life of a mother 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:34.559 was the only acceptable reason to allow an abortion. Some 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.040 doctors in the debate argued that abortion was morally acceptable 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.720 for quote, an intelligent and chaste woman who had gotten 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.360 pregnant after being deceived by a scoundrel into participating in 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:46.400 pre marital. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.600 Sects because of sexual double standards. Several of these Texas 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.720 doctors argued that such women would no longer be considered 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.120 a socially acceptable mate by a high status man, and 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.200 thus should be denied the chance to become an quote, 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:05.200 ornament and useful member of society. Regardless of Texas's abortion law, 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.280 a surprising number of doctors in the state performed abortions, 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.679 not only to save women's lives, but to save the 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.800 reputations and to relieve them of the financial and physical 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:15.839 hardships of unwanted pregnancies. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:21.520 In eighteen ninety nine, Ueca, Texas Mary Wheat, discovered she 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.280 was pregnant and sought an abortion. The procedure had been 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.960 illegal in Texas since eighteen fifty six, a year before 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.040 the recently formed American Medical Association began a campaign to 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:37.559 prohibit abortion in every state. By eighteen eighty, the AMA 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.280 had achieved its goal. In spite of the ubiquitous spans, 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.160 abortions were frequent and there were a large number of 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:49.040 doctors willing to provide the prohibited medical procedure. Wheat, called 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:54.199 Maddie by friends and family, found such a physician, doctor S. M. Jenkins. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.480 Texas law at the time had not eliminated abortion, but 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.840 instead had driven the practice under Because of this, doctors 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.120 received little or no training in how to perform such 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.440 procedures that proved fatal for Maddy Wheat, Doctor Jenkins performed 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.720 the abortion in the home of women identified by the 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.280 local press only as Missus Smith, and he made a mistake. 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.800 She got increasingly and dangerously ill, and then after ten 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.800 days of this ordeal, Jenkins rushed Wheat into Waco's City Hospital. 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.000 He claimed she was suffering a severe attack of dysentery. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.400 She then died, and an autopsy revealed a bowel perforation 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.840 which had been left during the botched abortion. Law enforcement 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.400 arrested Jenkins on November first for the operation, charging him 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:36.920 with murder. 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:42.640 Jenkins's trial did not go as prosecutor's planned. Jenkins testified 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.600 that the fetus Wheat was caring had died and that 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.960 the abortion was an attempt to save her life. According 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.720 to a reporter for the Houston Post, Jenkinson's attorney were 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.720 pleased with how the trial was unfolding. Quote, the defense 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.440 seemed to be well satisfied with their showings so far. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.359 Public opinion had changed considerably in favor of the defendant. 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.439 The newspaper told its readers, But then the trial came 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.679 to an abrupt and shocking end. 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.720 While the court was in session, Hugh Wheat, the brother 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.880 of the deceased woman, stood aimed at gun at doctor Jenkins, and. 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:18.640 Pulled the trigger. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.320 A bullet fatally struck the physician just underneath the ribs. 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.520 As the assassin fled, Jenkins's brother in law, John Halligan, 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.040 shot back, but missed that a murder trial ended in 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.520 another homicide is not surprising in a place as violent 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.839 as nineteenth century Texas, But because of the modern image 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.800 of Texas as reliably and even harshly anti abortion, it 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.440 might be startling that the public one hundred and twenty 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.080 five years ago actually sympathized with a doctor who faced 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.120 prison after his patient died as a result of an 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:51.760 incompetently performed abortion. 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.559 Abortion politics were far more unpredictable in the American past 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.840 than Samuel Lito had asserted. In seven twenty three, anti 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:05.800 vice activist Anthony Comstock of Connecticut successfully lobbied the Congress 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.760 the past legislation known as the Compstack Act that made 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.680 distribution to the US mail or common carriers of birth 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.319 control devices or any information about birth control or how 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.760 to obtain an abortion a federal crime. 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.880 Social reformers noted that bearing multi children often shorted women's 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.480 lives and drove their families into poverty, and they battled 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.160 for women to gain control over the reproductive choices. One 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.280 such reformer was Margaret Sanger of New York, the daughter 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.320 of a radical Irish father and mother who died at 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.600 fifty after burying eleven children. Sanger coined the term birth 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.160 control in nineteen fifteen, and, just before World War One, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.600 launched a movement that promoted contraception as sexual and political 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.679 reform aimed to reduce human misery. She had to flee 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.600 the country in nineteen fourteen because her publication The Woman 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.920 Rebel intentionally defied the Comstock Law and promoted the distribution 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.280 of information about contraception through the United States Postal Service. 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.439 When she returned to this country, she was an international 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.319 celebrity for women's rights and free speech, and she opened 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.640 a family planning clinic, which faced continual police harassment. Lack 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:19.120 of access to birth control, Sager complained, led to abortion, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.480 as she has said in a nineteen fifty seven interview 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.840 with reporter Mike Wallace on CBS News. 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:26.440 Why did you do it? 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.600 I realized that you had an intellectual conviction that birth 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.280 control was a boon demand kind. But I'm sure that 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.520 others have that conviction too, and so what I'd like 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.520 to know is this, what events, what emotions in your 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:45.280 life made Margaret Sanger a crusader for birth control. 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.760 Well, mister Wallace, it's hard to say that any one 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.840 thing has made won't do this or that. I think 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.000 from the very beginning, I came of a large family. 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.600 My mother died young children. That made the impression on 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.240 me as a child. As a trained nurse went among 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.920 the people, I saw women who asked to have some 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.720 means whereby they would have to have another pregnancy too 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:18.520 early after the last child, the last abortion, which many 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.000 of them had. So there's a number of things that 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.520 are one after the other that really made you feel 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:24.960 that you had to do something. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.080 It may surprise many today that the woman who founded 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.720 the American Birth Control League, which later evolved into Planned 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:36.880 Parenthood of America, actually opposed abortion and advocated easing access 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.440 to birth control as a means of making advantage. Meanwhile, 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.480 around the time of Sanger's interview with Mike Wallace, Texas 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.200 doctors became friendlier to abortion rights. But before we get 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.200 into that quick eyebreak. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.520 In nineteen sixty three, the Houston Chronicles survey doctors about 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:09.680 their views of abortion. About eighteen thousand abortions took place 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.040 in Texas every year, the newspaper reported in that quote, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.480 an increasing number of doctors believed abortion should be legal 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.640 for reasons beyond saving the life of the mother. Texas 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.000 women fought fiercely for the right to control their bodies. 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.200 In North Texas, the Women's Alliance, the first Unitarian Universalist 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.800 church in Dallas, launched an education campaign about the need 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.600 for the state to reform its abortion laws. Meanwhile, doctor 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.240 U Savage of Fort Worth, the president of State Association 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:44.040 of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, lobbied the Texas Medical Association to 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.640 draft a statement supporting abortion rights. The state's abortion ban was, 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.520 he said, in conflict with actual practice of reputable hospitals 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.600 across the state. Doctors regularly provided abortion care when a 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.240 woman's life was in danger, and they interpreted that mandate broadly. 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.240 In nineteen sixty nine, members of the Texas Medical Association 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.560 who were surveyed approved liberalization of abortion. Laws by an 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.040 overwhelming vote of four thousand, four hundred and thirty five 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:15.960 to five hundred and thirty six. 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.719 The Texas legislature even considered loosening abortion restrictions in its 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.720 nineteen sixty seven and nineteen sixty eight sessions, although neither 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.840 effort was successful in spite of support from conservative state 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.000 Senator George park House and a growing number of churches 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.520 and physicians. In the end, activists carried the day. Two 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:39.000 Texas lawyers, Linda Confie and Sarah Weddington, took up the 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.840 cause of Norma McCovey, who had sought an abortion in Dallas. 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.639 Almost a century earlier, Texas doctors had argued whether to 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.679 allow an abortion for unmarried upper class women so they 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.119 could contribute to the gene pool by bearing children with 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.480 comparably privileged men. Those Victorian doctors did not have someone 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:57.560 like McCovey in mind. 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.840 Largely neglected by our parents, but Covey had suffered abuse 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.440 at the hands of men throughout her life and was 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.879 a frequent drug user. After giving up one child for 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.480 adoption and having another taken by her mother, in nineteen 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.080 sixty nine, she was pregnant for a third time while 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.280 she was living in Dallas. McCovey tried to end the 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:22.359 pregnancy herself with a home remedy of peanuts and cast roil, 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.560 but she only succeeded in making herself nauseous. She's eventually 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.440 told about an illegal clinic, but when she got there, 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.600 Dallas police had already shut down the clinic. Quote nobody 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.720 was there, she said later it was an old dentist office. 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.399 Then I saw dried blood everywhere and smelled this awful smell. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.159 She believed that she falsely claimed that she had been 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:48.080 gang raped by African American men. A doctor might be 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.199 willing to provide her an abortion. She was unsuccessful, but 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.320 a doctor referred her to an attorney who connected her 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.520 with a pair of lawyers who were seeking to challenge 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:02.479 the Texas anti abortion law. Attorneys Linda Coffee and Sarah 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:06.480 Weddington filed a class action suit against Dallas District Attorney 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.560 Henry Wade, claiming that the Texas anti abortion law, which 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.639 allowed the procedure only to save the patient's life, violated 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:16.600 the constitutional right of privacy. 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.639 Before his name would forever be linked with the history 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.880 of American abortion law. By the time of Norman mcovy's suit. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.600 Henry Wade enjoyed a reputation as one of the most 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:30.200 successful district attorneys in the country. His reputation in Dallas 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.439 was built on ruthlessness, racism, and the advantages a brutally 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.399 unfair criminal justice system in Texas gave him. Wade would 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.919 claim a ninety percent conviction rate, but in many of 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.640 those cases he faced off against poor defendants that were bullied, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.600 lied to, and coerced into confessions by Dallas police officers. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.639 In one infamous murder case, Tommy Lee Walker, an African 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:57.840 American man with several alibi witnesses, was threatened with a 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.040 beating if he didn't sign a confession. He was misled 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.399 about the consequences of signing an admission of guilt and later 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.720 died in the electric chair. In nineteen fifty six. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:13.119 Wade reportedly joked quote, any prosecutor could convict a guilty man. 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.240 That takes a real pro to convict an innocent man. 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.680 Emmanuel Wade provided to prosecutors after the Civil Rights Era, 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:25.440 provided tips for excluding African Americans and Mexican Americans from juries. 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:30.040 Wade left the District Attorney's office in January nineteen eighty eight, 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.399 and as of twenty eight, nineteen criminal defendants convicted by 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.200 his team had been exonerated through DNA evidence. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.560 During his time as district attorney, Wade directed police to 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.760 raid gay bars and vigorously prosecuted violators of the state 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.639 sodomy laws that banned oral and anal sex, including a 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.400 straight couple arrested in Dallas in nineteen sixty one. While 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.879 Wade may have racked up wins against badly outmatched targets 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.720 before Row, he bungled his most famous case, murder covered 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:05.440 by Dallas radio reporter Gary Delon of KLi s Am and. 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:11.520 Garry comes Lee osrog he accused assassin Cat the riff 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:21.800 us leading the way, Then a strutted right Delice officers 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:30.160 shot running up, shot has run out, Andrew osrags leel 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:32.840 osra has sat him A shot has long out here, 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:33.960 strugglers be. 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.120 In place, show. 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:38.600 Has rung up and. 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.879 Leean osrag mee osrad has les been shot. 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:50.560 On November twenty fourth, nineteen sixty three, Dallas nightclub owner 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.560 Jack Ruby had murdered Lee Harvey Oswald, he accused assassin 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.920 of John Kennedy, as he was being escorted by police, 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.000 in front of the nationwide TV audience. The case should 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.920 have been open and shut. Wade's staff won a conviction 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:09.080 in March nineteen sixty four, but the verdict and death 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.840 sentence Ruby received was unanimously overturned by the Texas Court 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.800 Criminal Appeals on October fifth, nineteen sixty six, in part 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:19.080 because the judge should have granted a change of venue, 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:23.800 but also because Wade's team had introduced improperly obtained evidence 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:27.080 at the trial. Ruby was awaiting a new Trialway died 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.520 of pneumonia cancer in nineteen sixty seven. 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:33.119 The Wade team apparently did similarly sloppy work in the 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:33.399 Roe v. 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:34.159 Wade case. 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:38.520 In abortion cases, Wade's office had generally prosecuted amateur abortion 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.879 providers who had killed or badly injured their clients, and 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.159 the Dallas DA's office in the City Police had not 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:48.280 focused on enforcement of abortion laws on the books. Legal 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:51.399 experts would later characterize the Dallas DA's office filings and 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:56.200 the Row case as perfunctory, especially compared to the exhaustive 0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:01.280 constitutional research done by Weddington and Coffee. This Assistant General j. 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.520 Floyd won no allies on the Supreme Court when he 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:09.560 opened his argument with comments considered sexist and condescending even 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.879 by the standards of nineteen seventy three. When the Supreme 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.920 Court rendered its verdict, Wade reportedly never bothered to read 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:18.080 it best. 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.080 Kate Justice, I pleased the court. 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.480 It's an old Joe, But what a argument man argues 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:27.240 against two beautiful ladies like this. 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:28.320 They're going to have. 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:29.120 The last word. 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:32.720 No one laughed, and a Texas legal team would win 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:37.840 a landmark legal victory. On January twenty second, nineteen seventy three, 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:42.000 news anchor Walter Cronkite made the earthshaking Roe v. Wade 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:46.159 decision the lead story on the CBS Evening News Good Evening. 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:50.600 In a landmark ruling, the Supreme Court the day legalized abortions. 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:53.639 The majority in cases from Texas and Georgia said that 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.679 the decision to end the pregnancy during the first three 0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:00.520 months belongs to the woman and her doctor, not the government. 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:04.080 Thus the anti abortion laws of forty six states were 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:05.719 rendered unconstitutional. 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:08.680 Stay with us through this ad break to learn more. 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.760 Took a while for the country and particularly Texans, to 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.920 absorb the news about the Roe decision. Supreme Court ruling 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:26.960 was announced on the same day as another big news 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:29.879 story that over the next few days absorbed attention south 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.720 of the Red River. Cronkite was on the air when 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:35.840 the press secretary of a former giant of Texas politics 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.560 called the newsman to tell him a former president had died. 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.160 Thank you very much, Tom, I'm on the air right 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:44.399 at the moment. Can you hold the line just a second. 0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:49.280 I'm talking to Tom Johnston, a press secretary for Lyndon Johnson, 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:51.960 who was reported that the thirty sixth President of the 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:55.720 United States died this afternoon in an ambulance plane on 0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:58.720 the way to San Antonio, where he was taken after 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.480 being stricken at his rant, which the LWJ Ranch in 0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:03.000 Johnson City, Texas. 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:06.200 News of the road decision had to compete not only 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:09.600 with coverage of Johnson's death in the planning for his funeral, 0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:14.000 but also the recently negotiated American withdrawal from the Vietnam War. 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:17.560 No one could have guessed how deeply this one decision 0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:21.040 would reshape the makeup of the Democratic and Republican parties 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:25.200 over the next half century. Americans divided almost evenly. Soon 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:29.159 after the Supreme Court announcement, a Gallop survey indicated that 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:33.399 forty six percent supported a woman's right to choose and 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:36.880 forty five percent opposed granted women access to the abortion care. 0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:42.199 In the days following the Road decision, reactions were often surprising. 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.320 Wa chris Well, the arch conservative pastor of First Baptist 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:50.160 Church in Dallas, the largest Southern Baptist congregation in the nation, 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:54.800 initially applauded the court. Perhaps the pastor, who had repeatedly 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:58.320 warned thirteen years earlier that the election of a Catholic 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:02.200 John Kennedy as president would mark the end of religious liberty, 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:05.199 was relieved that the Supreme Court was not controlled by 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:09.360 the Vatican. By the late nineteen seventies, Chriswell would emerge 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:13.000 as a national leader of the religious right and would 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.320 help make opposition to abortion gay rights a centerpiece or 0:26:16.320 --> 0:26:20.400 Republican politics. Shortly after Rowe, however, he struck a very 0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:24.399 different tune. Quote I've always felt that it was only 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:27.440 after the child was born and I had a life 0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:31.480 separate from its mother that became an individual person, Chriswell said, 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:35.159 And it always therefore seemed to me that's what's best 0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:37.800 for the mother and the future should be allowed. 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:42.240 Opposition to the legalization of abortion quickly formed and would 0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:47.040 build to homicidal intensity over the decades. In nineteen seventy, three, 0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:49.679 years before the Row decision, when abortion was still illegal 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:53.159 in Texas, Michael Schwartz, a student at the conservative private 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:56.919 University of Dallas in the suburb of Irving, staged what 0:26:57.080 --> 0:26:59.960 might have been the first anti abortion protest in America 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.080 and history. He held a sit in at the Planned 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:07.000 Parenthood headquarters, not far from downtown Dallas because the organization 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:11.040 provided assistance to pregnant women planning on traveling to states 0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:15.360 where abortion was already legal, not unlike situations that Texans 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:16.000 faced today. 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:19.879 The movement soon came to be dominated by right wing Republicans, 0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:24.600 and the occupations of clinics soon became violent. Abortion opponents 0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:30.359 pouring noxious chemicals into clinic ventilation systems, anti choice extremists 0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:34.040 that fire to clinics, bombed them, and even murdered doctors 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:38.200 and clinic staff providing abortion care. One set of Texans 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:40.919 may have won the decisive battle for abortion rights in 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:43.840 the past half century, but a different set of Texans 0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:46.320 would lead the charge to reverse those gains. 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:51.160 Strangely enough, the backlash to abortion rights included norma McCovey. 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:55.000 One day, Flip Benhim, a leader of the extremist anti 0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:58.879 abortion group Operation Rescue, approached her while she was autographing 0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.840 copies of a book she had authored called I Am Row. 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:05.080 They became friends, and she later claimed that she changed 0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:08.080 her mind about abortion when she saw photos of fetuses 0:28:08.440 --> 0:28:11.920 at different stages of pregnancy. After being baptized in a 0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:15.840 swimming pool by evangelicals in nineteen ninety five, an event 0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:19.520 filmed and widely disseminated in the anti abortion movement, McCovey 0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:23.199 became a popular fixture at anti abortion protests. At first, 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:28.040 McCovey embraced Evangelical Protestantism, and by nineteen ninety eight she 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:31.480 converted to Catholicism, but towards the end of her life, 0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:35.359 while being interviewed for a twenty twenty documentary called Aka 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:39.600 Jane Rowe, McCovey confessed that her religious conversion had been 0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:44.000 a scam and that she had been financially benefiting from 0:28:44.200 --> 0:28:48.680 her transition into a star of the evangelical anti abortion circuit. 0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:53.240 Did they use you as a trophy? Of course, I 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:55.720 was the big fish. Do you think they would say 0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:56.920 they used them? 0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:00.120 Well, I think it was a macheble fine. 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:00.520 You know. 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:02.960 I checked their money and they put me out in 0:29:02.960 --> 0:29:03.280 front of the. 0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:04.600 Cameras and tell me what site. 0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:06.200 That's what I'm saying. 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:10.920 McCovey died in twenty seventeen at her home in Katie, Texas. 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:16.120 By that point, anti abortion politics had become orthodoxy in 0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:19.440 the Republican Party. In two thousand and eight, the state 0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:23.400 passed the misleadingly named Women's Right to No Act, which 0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:28.240 mandated the physicians share misinformation about alleged fetal pain during 0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:32.600 abortion with women who sought the procedure. In twenty thirteen, 0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:36.440 a state Senator Wendy Davis a Fort Worth stage of 0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:41.600 dramatic thirteen hour filibuster Senate Bill five, legislation that banned 0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:45.040 abortion after twenty weeks, required clinics to meet the same 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:49.360 demanding standards as hospitals and surgical centers, and required doctors 0:29:49.400 --> 0:29:53.600 performing the procedure to hold admitting privileges at nearby hospitals. 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.920 Davis's filibuster stopped the bill from being voted on before 0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:02.240 midnight June twenty fifth, mandated end of the legislative session. 0:30:03.120 --> 0:30:06.000 She killed the legislation for the time being, and the 0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:08.720 pink tennis shoes she wore became a symbol of abortion 0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:12.760 rights activism around the world. However, Rick Perry called a 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:16.480 special session of the legislature the next day in Senate 0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:20.120 Bill five passed. Her efforts propelled her into the twenty 0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:23.840 fourteen gubernatorial race, but she was crushed by Greg Abbott 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:25.400 by twenty one point margin. 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:28.600 In recent years, Abbot has led the charge to erase 0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:31.600 many of the gains women have won in the fight 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:33.280 to control their bodies. 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:38.760 We will promote policies that limit the growth of. 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:42.840 Government, not the size of your dreams. 0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:46.240 Under Abbot, Texas has passed some of the most intrusive 0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:50.280 and extreme anti abortion laws that tightly regulate women's bodies. 0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:53.720 In twenty twenty one, Texas passed Senate Bill eight, which 0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:56.480 banned abortions after the six week of pregnancy. It made 0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:59.280 performing an abortion a first or second degree felony unless 0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:01.800 the mother's life is in danger or there is risk 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:06.320 of substantial impairment of a major bodily function. The vagueness 0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:09.719 of that latter provision has terrified Texas doctors into not 0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:12.600 providing care to several women who have shown up in 0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:16.600 emergency rooms at death's door. Texas physicians have become less 0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:19.120 willing to perform emergency abortions than they were in the 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.920 days before the Road decision, even as far back as 0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:22.920 the nineteenth century. 0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:26.000 In twenty twenty three, the Texas Supreme Court denied Kate 0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:29.600 Cox of Dallas the right to end a pregnancy, even 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:33.880 though our fetus suffered from full trisomy eighteen, the severe 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.840 genetic anomaly that guaranteed that the child, if it survived pregnancy, 0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:42.160 would only live minutes. If a pregnancy continued, Cox may 0:31:42.200 --> 0:31:44.560 have lost the ability to have children in the future. 0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:47.760 She fled this state in order to obtain an abortion 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:52.000 where a procedure remained illegal. In twenty twenty three, Amanda 0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:56.280 Zerwarski almost died waiting for a life saving abortion when 0:31:56.320 --> 0:31:59.960 doctors hesitated to provide care because they feared criminal prosecute. 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:05.240 For years, abortion ride activists had chanted pro life, that's 0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:08.360 a lie, you don't care if women die. In fact, 0:32:08.440 --> 0:32:12.400 the state legislature and Governor Greg Abbott did nothing, as 0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:16.200 the deaths of pregnant women in Texas sword fifty six percent. 0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:20.640 In twenty twenty one, Johnson Lee Barnica, a mother of one, 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:23.920 was joyful when she realized she was pregnant. She hoped 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.400 to deliver a sibling for her daughter, but on September 0:32:26.400 --> 0:32:30.440 twenty first, seventeen weeks into her pregnancy, she was miscarrying, 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:33.200 with the fetus pressing against her cervix and about to 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:37.320 exit the womb. Barnica's life was in danger, but doctors 0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:41.280 at HCA Houston Healthcare Northwest told her and her husband 0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:43.720 that because of Texas's law, they could do nothing until 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:47.920 the fetus' heartbeat had stopped. Fearing criminal charges, doctors refused 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:51.200 to medically accelerate the delivery of the dying fetus and 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:56.280 let forty hours pass. Barnica writhed in agony, begged to 0:32:56.320 --> 0:32:59.560 be allowed to see her daughter, and a fatal bacterial 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:03.440 in fact ravaged her body. She would die three days later, 0:33:03.760 --> 0:33:05.600 leaving her young child without a mother. 0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:10.520 On October twenty eighth, twenty twenty three, eighteen year old 0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:14.800 Neva Crane was six months pregnant. She began vomiting and 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:17.680 she became soaked in sweat during a baby shower at 0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:22.600 her home in Beaumont. She too was miscaring. Her boyfriend 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:27.040 drove her to nearby Baptist hospitals. Of Southeast Texas, where 0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:29.440 they waited for five hours in a waiting room before 0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:32.560 doctors diagnosed her with strapped throat and gave her a 0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:37.600 prescription for antibiotics. Sent home or conditionally worsened, Crane was 0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:42.480 driven to another hospital in town Christa's Southeast Texas, Saint Elizabeth. 0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:45.440 Her fever soared to one hundred and two and she 0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:48.400 was bleeding, but her doctors continue to do nothing but 0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:53.920 administer antibiotics. Eventually, she was wheeled into a third emergency room. 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:58.360 Doctors gave her two ultrasounds, two, in their words, confirm 0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:03.080 fetal demise. Crane's mother, who had long been opposed to abortions, 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:06.520 screened at the medical staff to help her dying child. 0:34:07.040 --> 0:34:09.920 Cranes suffered for twenty hours before her heart failed. 0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:13.960 Bernica and Crane's stories were revealed by the investigative news 0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:17.080 outlet Pro Publica just days before the twenty twenty four 0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:22.040 presidential election. Democratic nominee Kamala Harris made abortion rights a 0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:26.319 central part of her doomed campaign. When an anticipated red 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.440 wave expected to bring a Republican majority in the twenty 0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:32.840 twenty two congressional elections fizzled and a number of abortion 0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:36.480 rights initiative passed even in traditional Republican strongholds like Kansas 0:34:36.560 --> 0:34:40.120 and Ohio. Many pundits believe that a Dobbs effect had 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:45.080 heralded a permanent political realignment or at least the upcoming 0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:50.200 presidential election results. This phenomenon clearly failed to materialize for Harris. 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:58.360 Abortion rights referenda passed in seven states, including Arizona, Colorado, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:01.520 and New York in November twenty twenty five, but they 0:35:01.560 --> 0:35:04.640 foundered in Nebraska and South Dakota, as well as Florida 0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:06.919 because the support of fifty seven percent of voters fell 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:12.080 short of the required sixty percent supermajority. In Texas, Trump, 0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:15.759 once a pro choice person but now the proud instigator 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:19.239 of the Dobbs decision, carried fifty six percent of the vote. 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:22.800 One of the most prominent Trump supporters, University of Texas PhD. 0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:26.279 Kevin Roberts of the Heritage Foundation, might soon be in 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.000 a position to see his dreams of a national ban 0:35:29.400 --> 0:35:32.920 on the so called abortion pill, mifepristone, and even the 0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:37.040 reversal of the nineteen sixty five Griswold v. Connecticut's Supreme 0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:41.480 Court decision that overturned state laws banning control pills and devices. 0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:47.320 When Harris lost, anti abortion extremists exuberantly celebrated Trump's triumph. 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:51.720 Neo Nazi Nick Fuentes, who if right wing rap artists 0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:54.520 Kanye West got to go to dinner in twenty twenty two. 0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:57.960 At Trump saw the Republican victory as an opportunity to 0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:03.480 reduce swomen to the status property. Hey, we control your bodies. 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:04.479 Guess what. 0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:05.920 Guys win again. 0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:11.799 Okay, men win again, and yes, we control your bodies. Hi, 0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:18.799 I'm your Republican congressman. Hi, I'm your Republican congressman. It's 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:22.080 your body, my choice. 0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:25.800 Texas government has become big enough to regulate women's bodies 0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:29.120 and small enough to fit inside of its citizens' bedrooms. 0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:32.440 Even though abortion rights have always enjoyed far greater support 0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:36.120 than Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito has suggested the right 0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:38.480 of women to control their own bodies and get the 0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:41.520 vital medical care they need to prevent bodily harm or 0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:45.920 their premature deaths seems on the precipice of vanishing. This 0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:50.239 grim reality is not deeply rooted in America's history or traditions, 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:56.120 but unfortunately it is the current status quo, and Texas 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.680 has played a major role in bringing us to this place. 0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:03.680 I'm Stephen Machelli, I'm Michael Phillips. Thanks for listening. 0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:25.160 Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:29.000 hope you've been enjoying the holiday season. I know I have, 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:33.200 or at least I've been trying to. It's difficult because 0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.479 I keep getting distracted by this funny feeling like there's 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:40.560 something watching over me, up in the sky, something buzzing around, 0:37:41.080 --> 0:37:44.439 And at first I thought this might just be Santa's sleigh, 0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:47.640 but then I realized no, no, no, no no, this 0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:51.239 is actually a drone. And oh boy, am I not 0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:55.040 the only one. Drone fever is just sweeping the nation 0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:59.520 right now with the new Jersey drone panic somehow making 0:37:59.600 --> 0:38:06.239 headline based on unconfirmed and very disputable reports. The new 0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:09.880 Jersey drone thing isn't real. This is mass hysteria. Almost 0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:14.760 all of these incidents of UFOs, UAPs or mysterious drones 0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:18.720 are actually just like regular airplanes going to the airport, 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:22.640 airplanes that you can track online via flight radar. These 0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:27.319 aren't nuclear scanning drones, These aren't secret government military projects. 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:32.200 These are either like legal, registered hobbyist drones in some cases, 0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:36.799 but really just mostly airplanes. A few weeks ago, there 0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:39.880 was a really cloudy day over the New Jersey coast 0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:44.440 and that day all of the drone sightings stopped because 0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:47.439 you couldn't see up in the sky, you couldn't see 0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:51.000 the airplanes. But yeah, the New Jersey drone panic isn't real. 0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:55.040 The reason why there's blinking lights flying over LaGuardia is 0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:58.920 that those are airplanes taking off and landing at an airport. 0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:02.920 This whole panic was boosted by unconfirmed social media reports 0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:06.800 and local news sites trying to gain clicks, and somehow 0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:10.000 this just broke through into the national mainstream discourse. But 0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:15.680 fears over invasive drones isn't necessarily unfounded though. The ones 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:20.000 that you should be worried about aren't UFOs or nuclear 0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:24.600 scanning drones, but are actually police drones, which are becoming 0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:28.120 all the more commonplace. More and more cities this year 0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:31.680 have adopted police drone programs. So for this episode, I'm 0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:35.480 going to rerun my episode from early in twenty twenty 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:39.399 four about police drones. Now, in the past year, there's 0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:42.680 also been a great increase in the reporting on police drones, 0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:47.520 including a fantastic Wired investigation titled the Age of the 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:52.360 Drone Police is Here. They analyzed nearly ten thousand individual 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:55.360 flight records from July twenty twenty one September of twenty 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:59.719 twenty three, containing more than twenty two point three million coordinates. 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:04.920 The investigation showed that poor communities, especially working class and 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:10.840 immigrant communities, were disproportionately surveilled with police drones in Cheula Vista, 0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:14.520 flying over neighborhood blocks on the west side more than 0:40:14.680 --> 0:40:18.680 ten times longer than blocks on the suburban east side. 0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:24.880 And considering Trump's second term, fears over widespread police surveillance 0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:29.040 are only more relevant, especially in immigrant communities, and even 0:40:29.040 --> 0:40:31.799 in instances where drones like this fly over places like 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:36.360 abortion clinics, and these fears are not unfounded. In twenty twenty, 0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:39.800 the San Diego Union Tribune discovered that the Cheulavista Police 0:40:39.800 --> 0:40:44.600 Department was sharing its license plate reader data directly with ICE. 0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:50.280 Now it's still unclear how many drones Cheulavista PD currently has, 0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:53.919 but as of twenty twenty two, they had thirty two 0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:58.600 of these high definition camera mounted drones, drones which have 0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:02.040 now done over twenty one thousand flights since twenty eighteen. 0:41:02.760 --> 0:41:04.920 All of this will get discussed more in depth in 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:08.920 the episode, but for an update later, I discuss a 0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:13.120 court case to secure the public's right to access drowne footage, 0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:17.200 and this case is still ongoing. Last spring, the city 0:41:17.280 --> 0:41:20.680 tried to appeal to the California Supreme Court, who ultimately 0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:24.600 declined to take up the case, basically reaffirming the lower 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:29.080 court's ruling against the police to withhold drone footage. This 0:41:29.239 --> 0:41:33.000 case is once again back to trial court to finalize 0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:37.600 details of how certain footage should be released. So, without 0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:40.799 further ado, here's my episode from the twenty twenty four 0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:53.279 Consumer Electronics Showcase, Police Drones and you welcome to it 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:57.120 could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. Now, last week I 0:41:57.200 --> 0:41:59.960 spent a few days in Las Vegas for the Consumer 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:03.759 Electronics Showcase. Most of the time of the convention, I 0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:07.040 was just walking around the show floor looking at various 0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:11.920 new types of surveillance equipment, AI products, and various other 0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:16.440 bullshit that was being pedled to the many industry attendees 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:19.040 of CEES. But I was also able to go to 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.520 a few panels. Now panels are really interesting because you 0:42:21.560 --> 0:42:24.279 get to hear people who are working inside industries talk 0:42:24.280 --> 0:42:26.879 about stuff that they don't usually really publicly talk about 0:42:27.000 --> 0:42:29.520 very much. And on the first day of the convention, 0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:33.279 I went to a panel about drone technology. Half of 0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:36.920 the panel was about how Walmart is launching new delivery 0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:42.040 drones in Dallas, Texas. The other half was about police drones. 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:45.080 And that's what we're going to be talking about here today, 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:48.920 how the police are using drones, why they're using drones, 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:51.600 and how you can probably expect to be seeing a 0:42:51.640 --> 0:42:54.920 lot more drones up in the sky piloted by either 0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:59.480 an AI or a police officer. So let's get started. 0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:04.440 Cheula Vista is the southernmost kind of medium sized city 0:43:04.480 --> 0:43:07.480 in California, with the population of two hundred and seventy 0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:11.040 eight thousand people. Cheulavista has a police force of two 0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:13.880 hundred and eighty nine sworn officers, as well as one 0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:17.960 hundred and twenty civilian employees. On top of their nearly 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:21.880 three hundred officers, they operate a drone fleet ten hours 0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:25.160 a day, seven days a week, launching high deff camera 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:29.719 mounted drones from four locations throughout their small city. I'm 0:43:29.719 --> 0:43:33.280 going to quote from an article from the MIT Technology Review, 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:36.560 which did a deep dive onto Cheulavista's police drones back 0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:40.600 in February of twenty twenty three. Quote. Cheula Vista uses 0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:43.360 these drones to extend the power of its workforce in 0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:46.520 a number of ways. For example, if only one officer 0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:49.439 is available when two calls come in, one foreign armed 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:53.080 suspect and another for shoplifting, an officer will respond to 0:43:53.160 --> 0:43:58.120 the first one. But now cvpd's Public Information Officer, Sergeant 0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:02.279 Anthony Molina, says that dispatchers can send a drone to 0:44:02.360 --> 0:44:07.279 surreptitiously trail the suspected shoplifter unquote. And this really gets 0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:09.320 at the heart of how these drones are going to 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:13.120 get used. They exist to funnel more people into the 0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:17.080 criminal justice system. Instead of having to choose between two calls, 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.880 one of which actually could relate to saving someone's life, 0:44:20.000 --> 0:44:22.680 the other just a petty crime, now the police can 0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:25.520 easily follow someone doing a petty crime while responding to 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:28.439 other calls and eventually catch up. It's a way to 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:31.040 just expand the amount of people that can be arrested 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:35.360 and thrown into jail. Nowadays, drones are pretty common tools 0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:39.480 for police. Over one five hundred departments currently use drones, 0:44:39.960 --> 0:44:43.800 usually for special occasions though like search and rescue, crime 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:49.520 scene documentation, protest surveillance, and sometimes tracking suspects, But at 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:53.400 the moment, only about a dozen police departments regularly dispatch 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:56.719 drones in response to nine to one one calls, the 0:44:56.760 --> 0:45:00.520 first of which was Cheu La Vista PD launched their 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:05.400 quote drone as first Responder program back in twenty eighteen 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:09.239 with the goal of having an unmanned aerial system or 0:45:09.520 --> 0:45:13.560 drone be proactively deployed before an officer is on SENE. 0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:18.200 Now we'll hear from Chief Roxanna Kennedy of the Chula 0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:23.200 Vista Police Department talking on the drone technology panel at CEES. 0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:27.719 We are seven miles from the Mexico border, and we 0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:30.040 are the second largest city in San Diego County. 0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:32.160 So we have about two hundred. 0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:35.440 And ninety officers and we serve a community of about 0:45:35.480 --> 0:45:38.719 three hundred thousand. Because of the close proximity into the door, 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:40.880 we have a lot of people that travel back and forth. 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:46.440 We have a drone program that I'm awfully proud of, 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:50.440 and we are responding proactively to calls for service in 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:53.960 our community, and so we have drone station from botfent 0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:55.480 locations throughout our city. 0:45:55.840 --> 0:45:58.400 We have pilots in command that are on the roadtop, 0:45:58.760 --> 0:45:59.200 and then we. 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:03.440 Have a operation center where we have smart officers that 0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:06.280 are part one to seven pilots that fly the drones. 0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:09.600 So we are responding now to calls for service. 0:46:09.960 --> 0:46:14.000 On average, an officer on seeing a drone pen on 0:46:14.120 --> 0:46:17.360 seeing that, sharing information with our officers live streaming that 0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:20.759 information on our cell phones or in our computers that 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:23.040 we're seeing information about the call. 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:24.960 Within ninety seconds on average. 0:46:25.080 --> 0:46:27.880 And so what it's doing for us in sual Vista 0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:32.800 and for our community is we are providing information rapidly, 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:35.920 real time information to officers so that they can make 0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:39.439 better decisions so that everyone goes home safely. We say, 0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:42.840 the community safer, the officers are safer, and the subjects 0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:44.160 that we encounter are safer. 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:45.879 So we're only proud of what we're doing. 0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:49.560 The way police are able to deploy drones used to 0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:52.560 be a lot more limited. The use of drones is 0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:57.000 regulated by the FFA, the Federal Aviation Administration. In most cases, 0:46:57.080 --> 0:47:01.400 the FFA requires that both hobbyists and please departments only 0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:04.960 fly drones within the operator's own line of sight. But 0:47:05.080 --> 0:47:08.440 starting back in twenty nineteen, agencies and vendors can start 0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:11.920 applying for a beyond visual line of sight or bev 0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:16.160 loss waiver from the FFA to fly drones remotely, allowing 0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:20.839 for much longer flights in restricted airspace. Chula Vista Pedi 0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:24.359 was the first department to get a BEVLOST waiver. The 0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:28.040 MIT Tech Review estimated last year that roughly two hundred 0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:31.560 and twenty five more departments now have one as well. 0:47:31.920 --> 0:47:34.319 Another thing that I always talk about because I think 0:47:34.320 --> 0:47:40.080 it's critical, is the concept of why they're using drones, 0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:43.319 what the benefit is to the community with the use 0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:47.160 of our drones. And I truly believe that when my 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:50.480 officers can pick up their cell phone before they respond 0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:54.680 to the call and they can look and see the scene. 0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:56.640 What's happening where the individual is. 0:47:56.640 --> 0:47:58.680 If the person's facing in the middle of the park, 0:47:58.960 --> 0:48:01.800 there are no children and there are no there's nobody 0:48:01.800 --> 0:48:05.239 that's within the reach of this individual harmy, you might 0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:08.400 not have to rush into that scene so quickly. Officers 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:12.520 can dsciate make better decisions. And I mean this is 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:16.520 just a game changer for law enforcement and right now 0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:19.880 you know, we were the first agent agency to be 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:22.880 involved in the integrated pilot program with the FAA. 0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:24.759 We're very proud of that that. 0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:27.920 They trusted us enough for us to be the organization 0:48:28.160 --> 0:48:31.640 that brought forward all these these ideas that are now 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:33.920 being utilized in law enforcements. Now. 0:48:33.960 --> 0:48:36.640 I've watched a lot of videos of police talking about 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:40.600 why they're using drones, of drone training companies talking about 0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:43.719 why police drones are so important. In one video on 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:46.879 their website, this guy from Skyfire Consulting was talking about 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:49.799 how police may not have had to kill tam or 0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:53.520 Rice if they simply had a drone watching beforehand so 0:48:53.560 --> 0:48:56.560 they could see that it was a toy gun, which 0:48:56.600 --> 0:48:58.879 is a ridiculous thing to say, because in the nine 0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:01.880 one call that jump started this entire police interaction, it 0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:05.080 was expressed that the caller thought the gun was probably 0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:09.320 a toy. And this notion that is simply if police 0:49:09.360 --> 0:49:13.040 have more ability to surveil, they'll be able to respond 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:16.839 safer and apply less deadly force, I think is a 0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:22.640 pretty suspect premise. Now, the effectiveness of drone technology and 0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:28.000 law enforcement is challenging to verify and quantify the MIT 0:49:28.040 --> 0:49:31.040 Tech Review cannot find any third party studies showing that 0:49:31.200 --> 0:49:36.040 drones reduce crime, even after interviewing CVPD officers as well 0:49:36.040 --> 0:49:39.960 as drone vendors and researchers quote, nor could anyone provide 0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:43.399 statistics on how many additional arrests or convictions came from 0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:47.200 using drone technology. I was able to find some data 0:49:47.280 --> 0:49:52.480 on cvpd's website talking about how many drone initiated interactions 0:49:52.560 --> 0:49:57.040 resulted in arrests, but quantifying additional arrests seems to be 0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:00.279 a little challenging. Now if you look at cheul to 0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:04.400 PD's own drone response to stats, the vast majority of 0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:08.279 deployments I estimate around seventy percent are for what the 0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:11.080 director of investigations for the privacy rights group the Electronic 0:50:11.120 --> 0:50:15.920 Frontier Foundation refers to as quote crimes of poverty unquote, 0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:18.680 which he believes will be the target of most drone 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:22.920 policing as opposed to violent crime. Nearly thirty percent of 0:50:22.960 --> 0:50:28.440 Chula Vista's drone deployments are for what's categorized as disturbances. 0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:33.200 Almost fifteen percent are for psychological evaluations, ten percent are 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:37.560 for quote, check the area and information, over seven percent 0:50:37.600 --> 0:50:40.560 are for welfare checks. Six point five percent is for 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:45.440 quote unknown problem and over six percent is for suspicious 0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:50.359 person and another six percent for traffic accidents. Now, some 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:53.960 drone deployments do result in patrol units not having to 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:58.120 be dispatched, but CVPD also says that drones have assisted 0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:02.080 in thousands of arrests. And I'm really not sure if 0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:05.560 having a drone following someone around is the best thing 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:08.800 for a fifty one to fifty psych evaluation. The presence 0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:11.680 of a police officer doesn't always make the situations better either, 0:51:12.239 --> 0:51:16.440 but I don't see having a drone be a really 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:32.240 calming presence if you think someone needs mental help. Funding 0:51:32.320 --> 0:51:35.320 a whole fleet of heavy duty surveillance drones and paying 0:51:35.360 --> 0:51:39.200 dedicated operators costs money. Now it's unclear to me how 0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:43.319 many drones to Levista PD currently has, and on their 0:51:43.320 --> 0:51:46.880 website they list ten different drone models currently being in 0:51:46.920 --> 0:51:50.719 their fleet, most of them really expensive DGI drones like 0:51:50.760 --> 0:51:55.000 the DGI Matrix, the DGI Inspire, the DGA Phantom, the 0:51:55.120 --> 0:51:58.439 dj Maverick, as well as drones from a few other 0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:04.000 random companies. But nevertheless, Chief Kennedy is very grateful for 0:52:04.080 --> 0:52:07.279 their local Police Foundation for heading up the funding for 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:12.239 their DFR drone first Responder program. Let's hear from her. 0:52:12.840 --> 0:52:14.240 I don't know if anyone here. 0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:17.759 Is in law enforcement, but many agencies use drums and 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:20.120 there are all different types of drones that are available. 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:24.040 I call them reactive drums or ones that are like 0:52:24.080 --> 0:52:26.239 the tactical drums that you can use to go in 0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:29.720 on a hostage situation or a missing person, to check 0:52:29.800 --> 0:52:30.080 in the. 0:52:31.719 --> 0:52:35.520 Canyon areas, or you know, interior drones. We have drunes 0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:36.800 of grow underneath. 0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:39.480 Beds, go inside addicts, all types of different drones, and 0:52:39.520 --> 0:52:43.960 many organizations have drones like that, but a DFR drone 0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:47.560 is very unique and different because these drones are flying 0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:50.880 as you can imagine, eighteen thousand missions. It puts a 0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:53.920 lot of wear and tear on them. But that is 0:52:53.960 --> 0:52:56.840 one of the biggest challenges beyond the that of funding. 0:52:57.160 --> 0:53:00.680 So we don't have huge budgets that are abouted for 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:05.040 drone programs, and so we've had to be very, very 0:53:05.080 --> 0:53:07.920 creative in our police department, and we were very blessed 0:53:07.920 --> 0:53:10.799 to have a police Foundation that has taken on the 0:53:10.880 --> 0:53:15.560 responsibility to help us really start our drone program and 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:18.920 continue going forward. So funding is always going to be 0:53:18.920 --> 0:53:21.080 a challenge and dependent upon. 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:23.520 The drone that you use. There are some drones that 0:53:23.920 --> 0:53:25.320 you can't get any as. 0:53:25.320 --> 0:53:28.239 You can't use for assets seizure funding, nor can you 0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.680 get grants for because sometimes when it comes to foreign 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:34.840 may drones there are many challenges as well. So you 0:53:34.920 --> 0:53:37.120 have to think of that and then we deal with legislation. 0:53:37.320 --> 0:53:39.480 Right now, that's the new challenge that we all have. 0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:44.920 We have to bite some battles. Like I said, I'm agnostic. 0:53:44.960 --> 0:53:47.080 I want to use what's the best drum out there 0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:51.719 and protect the information and we do that with encrypted 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:55.720 software programs that are on private servers. But you'll see 0:53:55.760 --> 0:53:59.600 that there's a lot of discussion about drones and what drones. 0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:00.680 We should use right now. 0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:04.720 We'll get back to the chief's offhanded mention of legal 0:54:04.760 --> 0:54:08.600 battles in a bit here. But Chula Vista's budgetary situation 0:54:09.239 --> 0:54:11.960 may not be as dire as the chief makes it 0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:15.399 out to be. On top of their current fifty five 0:54:15.440 --> 0:54:19.279 million dollar operating budget. Back in twenty twenty, the Loprenza 0:54:19.320 --> 0:54:22.960 newspaper revealed that departments in San Diego County had secretly 0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:26.359 been getting hundreds of millions of dollars in high tech 0:54:26.400 --> 0:54:31.640 police equipment including armored vehicles, facial recognition and phone breaking software, 0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:36.880 license plate readers, drones, ria gear, among other miscellaneous technology 0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:40.279 as a part of a DHS grant program due to 0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:44.640 their close proximity to the US Mexico border. Chula Vista 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:48.040 was one such department, and as of twenty twenty, so 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:51.720 four years ago, they had already received over one million 0:54:51.760 --> 0:54:54.880 dollars in grant funds from this DHS program, titled the 0:54:55.000 --> 0:55:01.440 quote Urban Area Security Initiative. Considering Chief kend these budgetary concerns, 0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:05.560 drones actually have a lot of upsides financially, as they 0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:09.480 are often a lot cheaper than alternative surveillance methods, as 0:55:09.480 --> 0:55:12.440 well as being relatively easy to deploy remotely, either with 0:55:12.480 --> 0:55:14.600 a joystick or just by clicking a point on a 0:55:14.640 --> 0:55:19.120 map from a comfy office building. Issues around this ease 0:55:19.200 --> 0:55:21.960 of use was pointed out by Dave Moss, the director 0:55:22.000 --> 0:55:26.400 of investigations for the privacy rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation, 0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:30.040 who was quoted in the MIT article saying, quote, up 0:55:30.120 --> 0:55:32.680 until the last like five to ten years, there was 0:55:32.719 --> 0:55:36.440 this unspoken check and balance on law enforcement power money. 0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:39.680 You cannot have a police officer standing on every corner 0:55:39.719 --> 0:55:42.520 of every street. You can't have a helicopter flying twenty 0:55:42.560 --> 0:55:45.480 four seven because of fuel and insurance is really expensive. 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:49.239 But with all these new technologies, we don't have that 0:55:49.360 --> 0:55:51.960 check and balance anymore. That's just going to result in 0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:55.759 more people being pulled through the criminal justice system. Unquote. 0:55:56.080 --> 0:55:58.360 My officers constantly are on the air. Now, is you 0:55:58.520 --> 0:56:02.120 as more available in US? One available because it's getting 0:56:02.160 --> 0:56:04.799 them more information. Think about the fact that you can 0:56:04.920 --> 0:56:07.120 look at your cell phone. I could be anywhere in 0:56:07.160 --> 0:56:09.480 the world and I can look at kit lets me 0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:10.560 know whenever there's. 0:56:10.360 --> 0:56:12.000 A drone flock, and I can walk. 0:56:12.160 --> 0:56:17.760 I can have visual awareness, aial overlay of what's happening 0:56:17.840 --> 0:56:19.920 in my community, no matter. 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:20.359 Where I am. 0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:27.439 Advancements in technology are leading to further normalization of police surveillance. 0:56:28.440 --> 0:56:31.480 Ten years ago, would people react to news of a 0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:35.200 twenty four hour police drone program the same way they 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:38.720 would now? What was once the threat of Big Brother 0:56:39.280 --> 0:56:43.440 has since become a very sought after, unfetishized nanny state. 0:56:44.520 --> 0:56:47.479 In the v for Veneta graphic novel, anarchist writer Alan 0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:52.160 Moore imagined a fascist Britain characterized by surveillance cameras around 0:56:52.160 --> 0:56:55.480 every corner, and now cities around the country are setting 0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:58.960 up their own street mounted cameras linked to private security 0:56:59.000 --> 0:57:02.080 cameras and ring door cameras to create a network of 0:57:02.120 --> 0:57:06.000 life coverage around a whole city which is instantly accessible 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:11.680 to police. The more widespread consumer adoption of new technologies 0:57:11.719 --> 0:57:15.399 like small camera mounted drones and doorbell cameras, the more 0:57:15.440 --> 0:57:18.520 acceptable it seems for police to add to such technology 0:57:18.560 --> 0:57:22.680 to their arsenal of surveillance tools. It almost becomes expected 0:57:23.640 --> 0:57:27.360 to Levis Tipdi has routinely declined to answer why their 0:57:27.440 --> 0:57:30.880 drones are always recording, both to and from the scene, 0:57:31.280 --> 0:57:33.600 and the department has put in a lot of effort 0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:37.800 into managing the backlash against their expanding drone program. 0:57:37.920 --> 0:57:38.920 And I'll tell you one thing. 0:57:39.000 --> 0:57:41.560 Even some of the after this, they were very concerned 0:57:41.600 --> 0:57:43.880 about drones in the sense of privacy. 0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:46.040 What are you doing with these drones? 0:57:46.080 --> 0:57:48.960 As you're responding, you're trying to gather data and information 0:57:49.440 --> 0:57:52.760 to spy on us, right, And we have had to 0:57:52.760 --> 0:57:54.960 go to a lot of detail and explaining that as 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:59.240 our drama lifsaw is immediately it is recording because that's 0:57:59.280 --> 0:58:02.959 the information and gather for us as that drone responds, 0:58:03.320 --> 0:58:06.160 the camera is already going all three miles down the 0:58:06.240 --> 0:58:09.880 roads where the scene is and giving us vital information 0:58:10.120 --> 0:58:13.680 as the officers are responding. But one of the criticism was, 0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:16.200 go on the way back, is your drone just going 0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:16.960 in my backyard? 0:58:17.200 --> 0:58:20.000 What if we're smoking marijuana in our backyard? And I said, 0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:22.040 you're in California, doesn't really matter about way? 0:58:22.280 --> 0:58:23.479 Well, let that wa go right. 0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:28.480 But we said, okay, we gave your concern, and so 0:58:28.560 --> 0:58:32.680 what we did was we worked with the software company 0:58:32.800 --> 0:58:37.240 that we were with, and they created an automatic so 0:58:37.280 --> 0:58:41.400 that as a drone returns, it automatically tilts to the horizon, 0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:44.800 so we're not recording anything. If another call came out, 0:58:45.360 --> 0:58:47.560 we can immediately we'll go back in it or fight 0:58:47.760 --> 0:58:50.480 map it for us and the share that information later on. 0:58:51.160 --> 0:58:54.640 But the goal is to listen to your community as well. 0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:58.000 Chief Kennedy's claim here is difficult to back up because 0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:01.280 CVPD have refused to show with the public any of 0:59:01.280 --> 0:59:05.080 the drone footage they routinely collect. But if we take 0:59:05.120 --> 0:59:08.240 the Chief at her word here anyway, she admits that 0:59:08.400 --> 0:59:11.200 the drone goes back to recording at street level as 0:59:11.200 --> 0:59:13.280 soon as there's another nine one one call as they 0:59:13.400 --> 0:59:16.600 record everything on the way to a scene. And the 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:20.760 way she phrases this whole tilt feature is quite misleading 0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:24.840 because the camera never actually stops recording. She just claims 0:59:24.840 --> 0:59:28.280 that it tilts slightly upwards in between nine one one calls, 0:59:29.000 --> 0:59:32.000 but it's still capturing footage up to three miles away 0:59:32.240 --> 0:59:36.800 the entire time it's in the air. Police in Cheulavista 0:59:36.920 --> 0:59:40.360 have flown over eighteen thousand missions with their drowns. That's 0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:44.320 a lot of footage. When talking about the privacy concerns 0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:48.520 had by some residents of Chewulavista, Chief Kennedy really emphasized 0:59:48.560 --> 0:59:51.640 how much her and the department really care about listening 0:59:51.720 --> 0:59:56.200 to community feedback and how data transparency is so important 0:59:56.240 --> 0:59:57.160 to CVPD. 0:59:57.840 --> 1:00:03.840 Community engagement is a si, especially in law enforcement, because 1:00:03.880 --> 1:00:07.680 there are so many challenges when it comes to misinformation 1:00:07.880 --> 1:00:11.000 that's out there, and whenever you're a part of what's 1:00:11.040 --> 1:00:13.120 deemed as a government, everyone thinks that you have some 1:00:13.240 --> 1:00:16.800 ulterior motive when you're involved with any type of technology, 1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:20.360 and so we have worked really hard to build very 1:00:20.360 --> 1:00:24.040 strong relationships with every aspect of our community. So it 1:00:24.080 --> 1:00:27.280 was about in twenty fifteen when we started talking about 1:00:27.320 --> 1:00:30.520 the concept and the possibility of drones, and I laughed 1:00:30.520 --> 1:00:32.800 with chant and said, George Jentsen, because that's my story 1:00:32.800 --> 1:00:34.600 that I used to and I love it because I 1:00:34.680 --> 1:00:36.960 made fun off my guys. When they said that we 1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:39.080 want to fly drunes, I said, oh, come on, now, 1:00:39.080 --> 1:00:41.520 what are we in beet George jetson flying rap the cars. 1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:44.040 And then I saw today they talked about a blind car. 1:00:44.280 --> 1:00:48.680 So it happens, it happens, all right. And so with 1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:52.360 the community, we started having these conversations. We created a 1:00:52.400 --> 1:00:55.560 working group, and we started doing community forums. We started 1:00:55.600 --> 1:00:58.080 asking the community about what would you think if we 1:00:58.080 --> 1:01:00.880 were able to do something like this. We even went 1:01:01.000 --> 1:01:04.720 to some of the organizations that may not. 1:01:04.920 --> 1:01:07.120 Always be so supportive of these types of groups. 1:01:07.160 --> 1:01:10.720 We work with the ASLVIE and ask for their input 1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:14.520 on our policy. So before we ever flew the drune, 1:01:15.160 --> 1:01:18.840 we call it the krawl lolock run Base. We're still 1:01:19.120 --> 1:01:21.360 at the very end of crawl. We're not into lock 1:01:21.440 --> 1:01:24.840 yet and we've been doing it again also for five years. 1:01:25.320 --> 1:01:29.720 So you have to make certain that you're transparent, and. 1:01:29.640 --> 1:01:32.920 We provided all types of information that are available if 1:01:32.920 --> 1:01:36.320 you go to. All you have put in is jobs 1:01:36.360 --> 1:01:38.840 to place drums and it'll come up with us and 1:01:39.440 --> 1:01:40.960 you can look at all the things that we do, 1:01:41.080 --> 1:01:43.920 all the information that we share, the flight maps that 1:01:43.960 --> 1:01:48.400 we share. I mean, it's just super important to have 1:01:48.560 --> 1:01:49.720 those community forums. 1:01:49.800 --> 1:01:50.360 Every year. 1:01:50.600 --> 1:01:52.960 We do a community forum twice a year where we 1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:54.600 ask for input from our community. 1:01:55.360 --> 1:01:58.760 Later on in the panel, Chief Kennedy said that CVPD 1:01:58.880 --> 1:02:03.120 is quote unquote extremely transparent about their flight data and 1:02:03.320 --> 1:02:07.120 quote unquote have nothing to hide relating to their use 1:02:07.280 --> 1:02:12.440 of surveillance drones, which is a curious claim considering the 1:02:12.480 --> 1:02:17.440 fact that CVPD has historically kept all drone footage hidden 1:02:17.480 --> 1:02:20.720 from the public and has fought in court to do so. 1:02:21.760 --> 1:02:26.200 Despite the chief's emphasis on the police's commitment to transparency 1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:30.320 and the importance of listening to community feedback, even going 1:02:30.360 --> 1:02:34.120 as far as to consult the ACLU when developing their 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:38.520 drone program, for years now, the Cheulavista Police Department has 1:02:38.560 --> 1:02:42.160 denied all FOYA and public records requests for any drone 1:02:42.200 --> 1:02:46.920 footage in response. Are Tuno Castnares, a Cheulavista resident and 1:02:47.120 --> 1:02:51.760 owner of the local bilingual newspaper Loprenza, filed a lawsuit 1:02:51.800 --> 1:02:56.360 against the city. CVPD argued that all drone footage should 1:02:56.360 --> 1:02:59.520 be categorically exempt from the public records requests on the 1:02:59.560 --> 1:03:03.120 basis that the footage could be used for a future investigation. 1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:07.480 Just last December, only a few weeks before Cees, the 1:03:07.560 --> 1:03:11.400 California Fourth District Court of Appeals ruled that this blanket 1:03:11.480 --> 1:03:16.120 exemption is invalid and that not all drone first responder 1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:19.200 footage could be classified as a part of uppending or 1:03:19.280 --> 1:03:23.080 ongoing criminal investigation, pointing to examples such as nine one 1:03:23.080 --> 1:03:26.520 one calls about a roaming mountain lion or a stranded motorist. 1:03:27.560 --> 1:03:31.080 And police were not happy about this ruling. I'll talk 1:03:31.120 --> 1:03:33.840 about their reaction at the end of the episode, but 1:03:34.440 --> 1:03:38.800 controlling the narrative about the drone first responder program has 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:43.240 been of the utmost importance to Trulavista Police, as the 1:03:43.320 --> 1:03:47.280 chief herself expressed at the panel, and we're real. 1:03:47.120 --> 1:03:48.680 Good about telling our story. 1:03:49.240 --> 1:03:51.520 If you don't tell your own story in law enforcement, 1:03:51.600 --> 1:03:52.680 other people will tell it for. 1:03:52.800 --> 1:03:54.400 It and it might not be the right story. 1:03:55.000 --> 1:03:57.880 So we've gotten a really good at sharing on our 1:03:58.440 --> 1:04:03.440 social media and through YouTube channels and everything. 1:04:03.800 --> 1:04:07.640 Successfulies of what we're doing that is quite the claim there, 1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:13.280 to paraphrase the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Without public access to 1:04:13.320 --> 1:04:16.720 their drone footage, it makes it very difficult to assess 1:04:16.800 --> 1:04:20.200 how much privacy you have in Cheula Vista and whether 1:04:20.240 --> 1:04:23.360 police are even following their own rules about when and 1:04:23.440 --> 1:04:28.360 whether they record sensitive places like people's homes, backyards, or 1:04:28.400 --> 1:04:32.520 public protests. And that's why this recent ruling and the 1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:35.680 legal precedent it sets is a huge win for actual 1:04:35.760 --> 1:04:39.720 transparency and marks the first step towards the public finally 1:04:39.760 --> 1:04:42.320 getting a look at how these drones are being used 1:04:42.360 --> 1:04:59.080 in Scheula Vista. With drone first Responder programs is spreading 1:04:59.080 --> 1:05:02.160 to police departments across the country modeled after the one 1:05:02.160 --> 1:05:06.640 in Chula Vesta. Combined with the increasing presence of stationary 1:05:06.760 --> 1:05:10.080 street level cameras, the ability for police to be watching 1:05:10.120 --> 1:05:13.520 everywhere without the need for on the ground officers creates 1:05:13.560 --> 1:05:17.160 what the EFF refers to as quote, a fundamental change 1:05:17.200 --> 1:05:20.120 in strategy, with police responding to a much much larger 1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:25.560 number of situations with drones, resulting in pervasive, if not persistent, 1:05:25.720 --> 1:05:31.960 surveillance of communities unquote. Speaking of persistent surveillance. Near the 1:05:32.160 --> 1:05:35.080 end of the panel, The Chief announced that to Lavesta, 1:05:35.120 --> 1:05:38.240 PD is planning to expand their ten hour a day 1:05:38.360 --> 1:05:42.800 drone first responder program to a constant twenty four hour 1:05:42.880 --> 1:05:46.600 a day drone surveillance program. More than doubling the department's 1:05:46.640 --> 1:05:49.200 capacity to have eyes in the sky would mean a 1:05:49.280 --> 1:05:52.160 lot more work hours for drone operators, as well as 1:05:52.160 --> 1:05:54.560 a large increase in the amount of video files being 1:05:54.600 --> 1:05:58.520 stored indefinitely, but Chief Kennedy claimed that they're looking into 1:05:58.720 --> 1:06:02.479 offsetting costs by replacing some of the drone piloting team 1:06:02.600 --> 1:06:06.240 with AI assisted piloting and autonomous devices. 1:06:06.800 --> 1:06:11.720 You've clearly been the leader with thrones's first responder technology. 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:14.880 Looking forward, what is the future hold for department? 1:06:15.320 --> 1:06:17.280 I assume you're spending a lot of time telling others 1:06:17.320 --> 1:06:22.080 about the program edition using drones, but beyond that, what's up. 1:06:23.560 --> 1:06:26.439 Well, my hope is that we'll be moving towards twenty 1:06:26.440 --> 1:06:30.840 four hour operations. Right now, we're from sunrise to sunset, 1:06:30.960 --> 1:06:33.240 we go till close to ten o'clock at night, which 1:06:33.280 --> 1:06:34.280 goes a little bit beyond that. 1:06:35.400 --> 1:06:37.360 And then one of the challenges, and I. 1:06:37.360 --> 1:06:40.160 Know you're only getting like a little piece of the 1:06:40.200 --> 1:06:43.120 information about exactly how we're doing this, but from the 1:06:43.120 --> 1:06:46.080 four different locations that we fly on each of the rooftops, 1:06:46.120 --> 1:06:49.120 we have what's called the piloting command, and that piloting 1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:53.680 command is contracted through a company and we and they 1:06:53.760 --> 1:06:57.120 just have visual awareness of the sky and they work 1:06:57.160 --> 1:07:01.520 in coordination with our drone pilot inside our operations center. 1:07:01.880 --> 1:07:05.160 But that's a huge expense for us to pay lead 1:07:05.240 --> 1:07:07.920 for each site right now with the operations that we 1:07:08.000 --> 1:07:10.320 have to pay about one hundred thousand dollars per year, 1:07:10.440 --> 1:07:14.480 So that's four hundred thousand dollars for four locations beyond 1:07:14.760 --> 1:07:17.360 all the other processociating and so if you get expense 1:07:17.400 --> 1:07:20.040 and my hope is that and we keep hearing about 1:07:20.160 --> 1:07:23.320 you've see some of the testing and we've been testing 1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:27.200 it as well in our area. Are what's called drone 1:07:27.200 --> 1:07:29.680 in the box or there's some of the systems that 1:07:29.720 --> 1:07:33.400 are out there right now that organizations are using that 1:07:33.440 --> 1:07:36.160 are autonomous, and so we're getting there, but we're not 1:07:36.520 --> 1:07:39.640 quite there because it's very different when you're dealing with 1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:44.160 flying over people and you're flying into areas where the 1:07:44.240 --> 1:07:47.000 drone was to drop out the sky and harm people 1:07:47.040 --> 1:07:50.440 in our community. That could create tremendous challenges for us, 1:07:50.440 --> 1:07:54.080 so we're very As I mentioned the crawl phase, So. 1:07:54.160 --> 1:07:57.840 To explain how these AI autonomous drones would work, It's 1:07:57.920 --> 1:08:01.520 essentially this box the size of a truck bed that 1:08:01.560 --> 1:08:03.960 can either be mounted in like a police pickup truck 1:08:04.080 --> 1:08:07.760 or be stored on various rooftops around the city, and 1:08:08.000 --> 1:08:10.120 someone just needs to point at a place on a 1:08:10.160 --> 1:08:13.160 map and the drone will fly in pilot itself around 1:08:13.160 --> 1:08:17.080 obstacles and basically circle around an area to do surveillance, 1:08:17.320 --> 1:08:19.640 and you can call it back when you're done. This 1:08:19.680 --> 1:08:22.879 would require a whole bunch of drones to just be 1:08:23.000 --> 1:08:25.720 launching and being piloted by themselves. You wouldn't have to 1:08:25.800 --> 1:08:29.400 train random police officers to become FAA licensed pilots, and 1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:31.639 you could just have the whole thing in the box 1:08:31.680 --> 1:08:34.120 like it's called drone in the box. And these are 1:08:34.120 --> 1:08:37.719 only going to become more common and cheaper. Imagine having 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:40.519 ten of these throw out a city, launching from like 1:08:40.680 --> 1:08:44.720 ten different rooftops, being able to fly around by themselves, 1:08:44.800 --> 1:08:49.439 constantly going around in communities, constantly going to GPS coordinates 1:08:49.479 --> 1:08:52.000 linked to the nine one one calls, creating a whole 1:08:52.040 --> 1:08:55.479 wealth of footage instantly available to police live streamed from 1:08:55.520 --> 1:08:59.720 the air. Matt Sloane, the founder of Skyfire Consulting, a 1:08:59.720 --> 1:09:02.479 company here in Atlanta that trains law enforcement agencies on 1:09:02.520 --> 1:09:05.439 the use of drones and DFR programs, thinks that we'll 1:09:05.479 --> 1:09:08.920 start seeing autonomous deployment of police drones within the next 1:09:09.000 --> 1:09:12.480 year or two, as police budgets increase and become allocated 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:16.800 for unmanned aerial systems. He referred to the state of 1:09:16.880 --> 1:09:21.760 drone use by police as quote rapidly escalating. Jeu la 1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:25.160 Vista likes to market itself as a pioneer of this 1:09:25.240 --> 1:09:29.599 smart city movement, which consequently makes them able to receive 1:09:29.600 --> 1:09:30.920 a whole bunch of grant funding. 1:09:31.760 --> 1:09:32.080 Now. 1:09:32.400 --> 1:09:35.719 The idea of the smart city is built around having 1:09:35.880 --> 1:09:39.880 a massive amount of data to automate certain city services. 1:09:40.920 --> 1:09:42.760 So for this idea to work, there needs to be 1:09:42.800 --> 1:09:46.040 a way to collect that data, and these drones are 1:09:46.080 --> 1:09:49.240 a major part of that. The website for the city 1:09:49.280 --> 1:09:53.160 of Cheu la Vista also lists projects like electronic transportation, 1:09:53.640 --> 1:09:57.639 adaptive traffic signals in app for non emergency city services, 1:09:57.840 --> 1:10:02.240 as well as quote crime map and police dispatch modernization 1:10:02.439 --> 1:10:07.040 unquote as also being smart city initiatives. 1:10:07.400 --> 1:10:11.519 We have what's called five nine one, and that allows 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:15.040 my officers to hear incoming nine more one calls before 1:10:15.120 --> 1:10:17.439 dispatch even puts it into the system. They can hear 1:10:17.840 --> 1:10:21.200 what's going on there, and that is tremendously in. 1:10:21.320 --> 1:10:22.280 Valuable to them. 1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:27.160 We have so many different layers of technology that have 1:10:27.439 --> 1:10:29.640 really showcase the value. 1:10:29.840 --> 1:10:31.920 Live nine one one is a new piece of software 1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:35.280 that allows patrol officers to listen to live stream to 1:10:35.360 --> 1:10:38.439 nine one one calls directly and pinpoints the location of 1:10:38.439 --> 1:10:42.679 the caller via GPS. Now, I don't even have time 1:10:42.800 --> 1:10:44.760 to get into the many reasons that this could be 1:10:44.840 --> 1:10:48.320 a bad idea, but simply put, police do not need 1:10:48.360 --> 1:10:50.840 to respond to every call that goes into nine one one, 1:10:51.320 --> 1:10:55.000 let alone be giving random cops this ability to self 1:10:55.040 --> 1:10:58.240 dispatch on their own. It just seems like that could 1:10:58.280 --> 1:11:02.959 have many many consequences. But anyway, back to drones. According 1:11:03.000 --> 1:11:06.759 to a twenty twenty article in the newspaper Loprenza, cities 1:11:06.800 --> 1:11:10.400 in San Diego County like Chula Vista, have received equipment 1:11:10.520 --> 1:11:14.160 such as tethered drones used for stationary surveillance, poll cameras, 1:11:14.200 --> 1:11:17.479 license plate readers, and cell phone cracking technology used to 1:11:17.479 --> 1:11:23.280 circumvent passwords from the Urban Area Security Initiative DHS grant program. 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:26.639 A lot of these technologies have use in the Smart 1:11:26.720 --> 1:11:31.520 City Idyllic plan for data collection to automate city services. 1:11:32.560 --> 1:11:34.719 After the drone panel was over and I was walking 1:11:34.760 --> 1:11:38.120 around the show floor at CEES, I couldn't help but 1:11:38.240 --> 1:11:42.200 notice all of the smart cameras and AI image recognition 1:11:42.280 --> 1:11:47.160 systems being advertised for law enforcement applications. Software that can 1:11:47.479 --> 1:11:51.559 almost instantaneously scan through a wealth of footage and track 1:11:51.600 --> 1:11:56.240 people's movements, run facial recognition, and identify every article of clothing. 1:11:57.240 --> 1:12:00.000 Versions of this type of software are already in US 1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:03.759 use by many police departments, and they will only get better, cheaper, 1:12:03.800 --> 1:12:07.599 and more common. In effect, what this does is remove 1:12:07.680 --> 1:12:10.519 a lot of the detective leg work. Instead of having 1:12:10.600 --> 1:12:13.879 to manually map someone's movements and track down what niche 1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:17.600 etsy shirt someone's wearing, these aisystems can now do this 1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:21.720 all automatically. To quote the MIT Tech Review article on 1:12:22.040 --> 1:12:27.599 cvpd's DFR drone program quote. As the technology continues to spread, 1:12:27.680 --> 1:12:30.200 privacy and civil liberty groups are raising the question of 1:12:30.400 --> 1:12:33.200 what happens when drones are combined with license plate readers, 1:12:33.479 --> 1:12:37.200 networks of fixed cameras, and new real time command centers 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:41.519 that digest and sort through video evidence, this digital dragnet 1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:45.880 could dramatically expand surveillance capabilities and lead to even more 1:12:45.880 --> 1:12:51.400 police interactions with demographics that have historically suffered from over policing. Unquote. 1:12:51.479 --> 1:12:54.479 Pedro Rios, a human rights advocate with the American Friends 1:12:54.560 --> 1:12:58.200 Service Committee and a member of Chula Vista's Community Tech Council, 1:12:58.800 --> 1:13:02.439 was quoted in the MITA article saying, quote people in 1:13:02.520 --> 1:13:05.719 the community have no awareness of what images are captured, 1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:09.120 how the footage is retained, and who has access. It's 1:13:09.160 --> 1:13:11.320 a big red flag for a city that says it's 1:13:11.360 --> 1:13:14.400 at the forefront of the smart city movement. Unquote. 1:13:15.160 --> 1:13:21.960 These drawns, they're revolutionizing the world. I mean people who 1:13:21.960 --> 1:13:25.519 are not taking drawn seriously right now, who will be 1:13:25.640 --> 1:13:29.720 left behind. We have flown eighteen one hundred and fifty missions. 1:13:30.240 --> 1:13:32.080 You can go on a web page, you can see 1:13:32.160 --> 1:13:35.600 the flight data. We're extremely transparent. We share all that 1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:37.800 with our community. We have no need to hide. We 1:13:37.880 --> 1:13:41.120 are in the business of saving wise and I believe 1:13:41.240 --> 1:13:42.000 drones are one of the. 1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:43.200 Best escort folks. 1:13:44.160 --> 1:13:47.560 If they truly have nothing to hide and are extremely 1:13:47.680 --> 1:13:51.920 transparent about the use of their camera mounted drones. I 1:13:52.000 --> 1:13:55.080 wonder why they've spent years in court fighting to keep 1:13:55.160 --> 1:13:59.920 every second of drone footage from being seen by the public. Luckily, 1:14:00.240 --> 1:14:03.479 after Chief Kennedy talked for like thirty minutes about how 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:06.320 much they care about community engagement and how transparent they 1:14:06.360 --> 1:14:09.120 are with their flight data, I was able to ask 1:14:09.160 --> 1:14:13.200 the Chief how their commitment to transparency relates to the 1:14:13.280 --> 1:14:16.960 recent lawsuit she just lost over hiding drone footage. And 1:14:17.000 --> 1:14:19.680 I also threw in a question about drones at protests. 1:14:20.080 --> 1:14:23.280 Let's take a listen. Yeah, a question for the chief. 1:14:23.560 --> 1:14:25.880 So, I know you talked about the importance of listening 1:14:25.920 --> 1:14:28.200 to the community and community engagement, and I'm not sure 1:14:28.200 --> 1:14:30.439 this is the case for your department, but other departments 1:14:30.479 --> 1:14:33.240 who've kind of followed suit, for your example, have been 1:14:33.320 --> 1:14:37.040 using drones to surveil first time in activity stuff. And 1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:40.559 I know you recently lost a court case regarding the 1:14:40.600 --> 1:14:44.519 availability of drone footage, so I'm curious about the kind 1:14:44.560 --> 1:14:48.920 of what the rationale for that footage is and how 1:14:48.960 --> 1:14:51.560 that plays into this idea of trying to be transparent 1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:53.679 with the community for how these drones are being used. 1:14:55.160 --> 1:14:57.280 That's kind of going to be a little bit difficult 1:14:57.320 --> 1:14:59.519 for me to answer because the court case is still 1:15:00.439 --> 1:15:01.160 moving forward. 1:15:01.400 --> 1:15:05.679 It's an active case. If you read it, we didn't 1:15:05.760 --> 1:15:06.679 lose the case. 1:15:07.120 --> 1:15:10.479 It was recommended to go to a lower core to 1:15:10.520 --> 1:15:13.400 go back for some clarification under three categories. 1:15:14.080 --> 1:15:17.479 Now this is either a straight upply or a huge 1:15:17.640 --> 1:15:21.519 cope and a gross mischaracterization. But more on that in 1:15:21.560 --> 1:15:22.799 a sec I think. 1:15:22.600 --> 1:15:23.720 It's really important. 1:15:24.120 --> 1:15:29.800 As I mentioned, there are ethics involved in the ethical 1:15:30.120 --> 1:15:33.040 responsibility that you have as a law enforcement agency is 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:37.320 super important. So how you utilize your drones and how 1:15:37.360 --> 1:15:41.960 you do outrage with your community is fundamentally important. And 1:15:42.000 --> 1:15:46.479 so we don't use our drones for if there was 1:15:47.160 --> 1:15:50.360 a protest, We would not use our drones if there 1:15:50.560 --> 1:15:53.439 was if it turned into a riot. 1:15:55.360 --> 1:15:56.640 So if people. 1:15:56.400 --> 1:16:00.320 Were out there and they have the ability to to 1:16:00.360 --> 1:16:03.960 speak freely to share their concerns, and if it's in 1:16:04.000 --> 1:16:06.680 an opposition, our goal is to make sure that we 1:16:06.800 --> 1:16:09.640 keep it safe for all parties involved on either side. 1:16:09.880 --> 1:16:12.920 So my hope is that other people look. 1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:16.599 At it the same way that we do, and hopefully 1:16:16.600 --> 1:16:18.520 I've been able to answer it. As much as I 1:16:18.640 --> 1:16:21.639 believe me, I'm dying to give you more than I can't. 1:16:21.880 --> 1:16:24.560 Okay, thank you for those questions. 1:16:25.080 --> 1:16:27.599 Folks were out of time. Maybe there could be questions 1:16:27.600 --> 1:16:28.720 after the session. 1:16:28.880 --> 1:16:31.280 So yeah, there were no more questions after mine. I 1:16:31.360 --> 1:16:34.120 kind of shut down that possibility anyway. 1:16:34.160 --> 1:16:34.479 Okay. 1:16:34.640 --> 1:16:38.200 So, first of all, the line between a protest and 1:16:38.280 --> 1:16:41.880 a riot is meaningless. Police can declare riot for any 1:16:41.920 --> 1:16:45.479 reason they see fit, including people being in a road marching. 1:16:45.960 --> 1:16:49.320 I've seen this happen dozens of times, nearly hundreds of 1:16:49.320 --> 1:16:53.320 times actually, So just moving on from that immediately, let's 1:16:53.360 --> 1:16:55.920 go back to the court case. The city of true 1:16:55.920 --> 1:16:59.120 Liavista did lose the argument that they were trying to make. 1:16:59.160 --> 1:17:01.720 They did lose the case. The Fourth District Court of 1:17:01.760 --> 1:17:05.840 Appeals ruled that claiming exemption from the Public Records Act 1:17:05.960 --> 1:17:08.960 was unlawful and sent the case back to trial court 1:17:09.320 --> 1:17:12.439 to hammer the details of how much footage is subject 1:17:12.479 --> 1:17:16.120 to public disclosure and figure out a process for standardizing 1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:18.479 the release of the footage. 1:17:18.640 --> 1:17:18.960 Now. 1:17:19.080 --> 1:17:22.040 The same day I attended this panel in Las Vegas, 1:17:22.320 --> 1:17:26.040 January ninth, the city of Chula Vista requested an appeal 1:17:26.320 --> 1:17:29.960 to the California Supreme Court to prevent the release of 1:17:30.000 --> 1:17:33.719 their aerial video footage. There is a sixty day waiting 1:17:33.760 --> 1:17:36.120 period where the High Court will decide whether or not 1:17:36.160 --> 1:17:39.320 to take the case, and if they decline finally, it 1:17:39.400 --> 1:17:41.400 will go back to trial court to decide on the 1:17:41.439 --> 1:17:45.680 process of how selected drone footage shall be made publicly available. 1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:50.160 The police are now currently claiming that making DFR footage 1:17:50.439 --> 1:17:54.400 adhere to the Public Records Act would violate the privacy 1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:59.040 of Chula Vista residents captured in the videos, which perhaps 1:17:59.080 --> 1:18:03.080 demonstrates that the aerial videos should have never been captured 1:18:03.080 --> 1:18:05.679 in the first place. I'm going to read a press 1:18:05.720 --> 1:18:10.240 release from the city's communication manager. Quote, the city declined 1:18:10.280 --> 1:18:13.280 to provide the copies because doing so might have violated 1:18:13.360 --> 1:18:17.040 individual privacy rights. The city would have to manually review 1:18:17.040 --> 1:18:20.559 and redact every video recording to protect information considered personal, 1:18:20.840 --> 1:18:25.320 such as the images of faces, license plates, backyards, and more. Unquote, 1:18:25.880 --> 1:18:28.799 So the city is both trying to argue that having 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:32.080 to manually review each requested file to determine if the 1:18:32.160 --> 1:18:35.280 video in question is related to a pending investigation, as 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:39.680 well as redacting personal information captured on camera, would be 1:18:39.800 --> 1:18:43.840 way too costly and time consuming. City officials claim that 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:47.320 reviewing and redacting videos from one month to obscure faces, 1:18:47.360 --> 1:18:50.640 license plates, and backyards would take a full time employee 1:18:50.840 --> 1:18:54.559 around two hundred and thirty days. I'm going to read 1:18:54.560 --> 1:18:57.200 a little bit more from the city's recent statement. Quote, 1:18:57.400 --> 1:19:01.200 while the city takes very seriously obligation to provide the 1:19:01.240 --> 1:19:05.360 public access to public records, the city is concerned that 1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:10.560 the Court of Appeal's opinion may compromise significant privacy concerns 1:19:10.880 --> 1:19:13.519 of members of the public in this case or in 1:19:13.560 --> 1:19:19.320 future requests. Unquote. Somehow, the city is missing the point 1:19:19.760 --> 1:19:23.120 that this is the very reason the drone footage is 1:19:23.160 --> 1:19:26.960 being requested to learn the actual nature of this highly 1:19:27.000 --> 1:19:31.120 influential drone first responder program that's being adopted across the country. 1:19:31.800 --> 1:19:34.599 If the existence of this footage is such a massive 1:19:34.640 --> 1:19:38.920 privacy violation, that implies that the recording of said footage 1:19:38.920 --> 1:19:44.280 itself implicitly violates people's privacy, and the harder police fight 1:19:44.439 --> 1:19:47.800 to hide their sweeping collection of aerial footage, all the 1:19:47.880 --> 1:19:50.320 more suspicious this entire program seems. 1:19:51.240 --> 1:19:51.360 So. 1:19:51.560 --> 1:19:54.000 That is what I have to say about Chula Vista's 1:19:54.320 --> 1:19:57.960 drone first Responder program. In about a month and a half, 1:19:58.439 --> 1:20:01.400 the Supreme Court of California will make their decision on 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:03.479 whether or not they're going to hear this case. If 1:20:03.520 --> 1:20:07.120 they decline, then the precedent will be set statewide against 1:20:07.120 --> 1:20:10.959 this exemption of the Public Records Act by hiding drone footage, 1:20:11.320 --> 1:20:14.840 so that will be really cool, and then hopefully within 1:20:14.880 --> 1:20:17.160 the next year, we'll finally be able to see what 1:20:17.240 --> 1:20:19.720 some of this footage actually looks like, how good their 1:20:19.720 --> 1:20:21.479 cameras are, how much they can zoom in, all of 1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:23.919 the details of how much of the city they're capturing, 1:20:24.200 --> 1:20:25.960 all this kind of stuff, how often the drones are 1:20:25.960 --> 1:20:28.479 in the air, all of those types of things that 1:20:28.520 --> 1:20:31.240 it will be easier to highlight once we can actually 1:20:31.280 --> 1:20:34.040 take a look at the footage. And I assume that 1:20:34.640 --> 1:20:38.240 going through and releasing requested files for one month will 1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:40.840 probably end up not taking two hundred and thirty days. 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:43.519 But I do know how the police love to love 1:20:43.560 --> 1:20:46.280 to stretch out these public records requests for as long 1:20:46.320 --> 1:20:49.639 as they can. As the request that this lawsuit stems from, 1:20:49.880 --> 1:20:52.320 it's all the way back to April of twenty twenty one, 1:20:52.640 --> 1:20:56.839 so hopefully, hopefully more than three years later, we'll finally 1:20:56.880 --> 1:21:01.600 get a look. Special thanks to Laprenze for starting this 1:21:01.680 --> 1:21:04.759 lawsuit and doing all of the hard work to actually 1:21:04.800 --> 1:21:07.080 force the police to be transparent. And if you want 1:21:07.120 --> 1:21:08.840 to read more, I'd recommend checking out the website to 1:21:08.880 --> 1:21:12.160 Leprenza dot org, as well as the MIT tech review piece, 1:21:12.360 --> 1:21:15.519 which provided some really really useful information to fill in 1:21:15.560 --> 1:21:18.240 the gaps between my own research. So yeah, thank you 1:21:18.320 --> 1:21:20.639 for listening to It could happen here. It certainly could 1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:23.400 happen here in terms of seeing more of these little 1:21:23.439 --> 1:21:40.439 fuckers flying around in the air. It's it could happen here. 1:21:40.520 --> 1:21:43.720 The podcast that's happening right now, this is maybe the 1:21:43.760 --> 1:21:47.559 foremost of the Putting Things Back Together episodes. I'm your 1:21:47.560 --> 1:21:50.280 host Miya Wong with me as James Stout guy. 1:21:50.320 --> 1:21:51.759 He likes it to put things together. 1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:55.320 Yeah, And you know, on the subject of putting things 1:21:55.320 --> 1:21:59.360 together over the last I don't even know three four weeks, 1:21:59.439 --> 1:22:02.600 the question I have been asked the most by everyone 1:22:03.000 --> 1:22:07.680 is how do I start organizing? And you know the 1:22:07.920 --> 1:22:09.880 problem with how do I start organizing is that it's 1:22:09.880 --> 1:22:13.880 not a question that has cleaner simple answers. Now, the 1:22:14.120 --> 1:22:16.479 most common answer you get is just join an org. 1:22:16.760 --> 1:22:18.479 And the problem is that most of the people who 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:20.680 you were hearing this from are already in an org 1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:22.360 and want you to join their org. 1:22:23.000 --> 1:22:25.840 Yeah. Also, the problem is a lot of the orgs 1:22:25.840 --> 1:22:28.840 that are currently dominating left to spaces in the in 1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:33.519 the United States are trash, yeah, and bad for people, 1:22:33.680 --> 1:22:35.519 bad people in them, bad people who are not in them. 1:22:35.640 --> 1:22:36.000 Yeah. 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:38.400 Here's a little test you can you can do, is 1:22:38.439 --> 1:22:41.880 your org currently sad that Basha a Lasad is no 1:22:41.920 --> 1:22:46.479 longer governing Syria? Because if that's the case, leave yep. 1:22:46.800 --> 1:22:49.559 And that's that's a lot of orgs that that's not me. Yeah, 1:22:49.600 --> 1:22:51.920 that takes most of them right now. We'll come back 1:22:51.960 --> 1:22:55.200 to orgs in a bit. But what I'll say about 1:22:55.280 --> 1:22:58.960 orgs is that, Okay, if you know an organization in 1:22:59.040 --> 1:23:01.320 your area that you like and you think does good 1:23:01.320 --> 1:23:04.240 work and most importantly spends their time actually doing work 1:23:04.320 --> 1:23:06.960 instead of either in fighting or talking about doing work, 1:23:07.479 --> 1:23:08.080 you join them. 1:23:08.080 --> 1:23:08.719 It will be good. 1:23:08.760 --> 1:23:11.160 But the important thing about organizations and is something we'll 1:23:11.160 --> 1:23:13.840 come back to you later. The important thing about organizations 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:16.120 is they have a lot of people. Yeah, And the 1:23:16.200 --> 1:23:19.320 thing that makes organizing work is people. It's not organizations. 1:23:19.320 --> 1:23:22.120 It's not even necessarily ideological labels. It's there being a 1:23:22.160 --> 1:23:24.479 bunch of people who you can use and who want 1:23:24.479 --> 1:23:25.040 to do things. 1:23:25.400 --> 1:23:25.599 Yeah. 1:23:26.360 --> 1:23:30.439 But something I realized that the more I had these conversations, right, 1:23:30.960 --> 1:23:32.680 you know, I'm having them with friends, I'm having them 1:23:32.680 --> 1:23:36.400 with strangers, I'm having them with other organizers. And the 1:23:36.400 --> 1:23:39.000 more I had these conversations, the more I realize something 1:23:39.040 --> 1:23:42.679 sort of startling you. The person listening to this almost 1:23:42.680 --> 1:23:45.640 certainly already knows how to organize, but you don't know 1:23:45.920 --> 1:23:47.400 that that's called organizing. 1:23:47.680 --> 1:23:49.479 Yeah, that's a very good point. 1:23:50.120 --> 1:23:52.920 I have encountered some of the most stunning or I 1:23:52.960 --> 1:23:56.080 mean organizing that like I can't discuss the specifics of, 1:23:56.080 --> 1:23:58.320 but like some of the best organizing I've ever encountered. 1:23:58.360 --> 1:24:00.439 I have ran into you in the last three weeks 1:24:00.439 --> 1:24:03.040 from people who don't think that they're organizers and started 1:24:03.080 --> 1:24:06.880 talking to me about their stuff. I was like, what, Like, 1:24:07.880 --> 1:24:10.719 people are winning victories that like the like hardcore committed 1:24:10.800 --> 1:24:13.840 organizers haven't been able to do in like thirty years. Yeah, 1:24:13.880 --> 1:24:15.800 and it's just by random people who don't think they 1:24:15.880 --> 1:24:16.679 know how to do anything. 1:24:17.000 --> 1:24:19.559 Yeah, can I tell a little organizing story. We do 1:24:19.640 --> 1:24:21.600 have time, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it. So 1:24:21.600 --> 1:24:24.120 I remember in like twenty eighteen, I am on a 1:24:24.160 --> 1:24:26.720 trip with a friend. We're coming back and we see 1:24:26.720 --> 1:24:30.080 the arrival of the migrant caravan, one of the migrant caravans, 1:24:30.120 --> 1:24:32.240 the one that everyone decided to have a fucking cow 1:24:32.280 --> 1:24:35.360 about right before the twenty eighteen mid terms. And at 1:24:35.360 --> 1:24:37.839 that time, they were corraling the people of the migrant 1:24:37.840 --> 1:24:42.240 caravan in a baseball stadium in Tijuana, and like it 1:24:42.280 --> 1:24:44.559 was raining every day, So the baseball stadium ends up 1:24:44.560 --> 1:24:46.360 looking like the Battle of the Psalm after like a 1:24:46.360 --> 1:24:48.760 couple of days, right, you know, kids in leady mud 1:24:48.760 --> 1:24:52.280 and shit, and I particularly know what to do, but 1:24:52.360 --> 1:24:54.639 evidently there were people there who were hungry and thirsty, 1:24:54.760 --> 1:24:56.719 and so I get three of my friend my friends. 1:24:56.720 --> 1:24:59.840 At this time, I was still making about half my 1:25:00.040 --> 1:25:03.400 many riding bicycles and in the other half riding so 1:25:03.720 --> 1:25:04.920 my friends and I was supposed to do a long 1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:07.600 bike ride. All of us are people who make a 1:25:07.640 --> 1:25:10.800 living riding bikes, right, we're not like expert organizers. And 1:25:11.080 --> 1:25:12.880 I was like, hey, guys, this is fucked. Which we do. 1:25:13.320 --> 1:25:15.720 We called a friend who has a company who makes waffles. 1:25:16.439 --> 1:25:20.200 Where we obtained like as many waffles as we could 1:25:20.200 --> 1:25:23.000 physically carry across the border. At that time, we weren't 1:25:23.000 --> 1:25:25.519 able to get in. We found a way to get in. 1:25:25.960 --> 1:25:29.759 We began distributing the waffles. After that, we put something online, 1:25:29.800 --> 1:25:32.519 people sent us money, and we continued feeding people for months. 1:25:32.840 --> 1:25:35.320 None of us, I think, had a particular plan or 1:25:35.360 --> 1:25:38.440 a scheduled. Yeah, it is a bit chaotic at times, 1:25:38.760 --> 1:25:41.120 but we were able to do that, and we're with 1:25:41.200 --> 1:25:43.240 a lot of other people. Clearly wasn't just us right, 1:25:43.280 --> 1:25:45.280 but we were able to process tenths of thousands of 1:25:45.320 --> 1:25:49.800 dollars and feed thousands of people. Be everyone there, And 1:25:49.800 --> 1:25:52.920 I've seen this countless times, especially working and organizing with 1:25:53.600 --> 1:25:56.240 well with refugees. For the most part, people are so 1:25:56.280 --> 1:25:59.160 good at organizing each other in themselves. Like when we 1:25:59.560 --> 1:26:02.320 got there with bottles of water and food. There are 1:26:02.320 --> 1:26:04.800 a thousand people that who have not had sometimes to 1:26:04.960 --> 1:26:07.840 drink for days, let alone more than a thousand, I think, 1:26:08.200 --> 1:26:11.400 let alone something hot to eat. Right, Everybody made sure 1:26:11.400 --> 1:26:13.400 that the children and the sick people got what they 1:26:13.400 --> 1:26:16.720 needed first. Organizing is something that is very inherent in 1:26:16.800 --> 1:26:19.880 us as people. It just we don't call it that. 1:26:20.640 --> 1:26:22.760 Yeah, And that's part of what I want to try 1:26:22.800 --> 1:26:24.400 to the myth. I want to try to puncture with 1:26:24.479 --> 1:26:27.680 this because I think, particularly in the US, but this 1:26:27.720 --> 1:26:29.559 is true in a lot of places. There's this way 1:26:29.560 --> 1:26:33.000 in which the organizer sort of TM capital T capital O, 1:26:33.160 --> 1:26:36.800 the organizer gets held up as this sort of I guess, 1:26:36.920 --> 1:26:41.360 even a particularly masculinist thing, which is it's this guy 1:26:41.479 --> 1:26:42.679 with specialized knowledge. 1:26:43.000 --> 1:26:45.799 Yeah, and that's just not true. 1:26:46.240 --> 1:26:48.679 This brings us something that I think is actually really important, 1:26:48.920 --> 1:26:51.160 which is what what even is organizing? 1:26:51.600 --> 1:26:51.800 Right? 1:26:52.400 --> 1:26:54.920 And the answer is that most organizing is you get 1:26:55.120 --> 1:26:58.040 you get a group of people together, you get them 1:26:58.080 --> 1:27:00.599 to show up to something, and then you do something right. 1:27:00.760 --> 1:27:04.559 And the thing about this, right, that's something all of 1:27:04.600 --> 1:27:07.479 you know how to do. If you can organize a 1:27:07.640 --> 1:27:10.800 dinner party, right, if you can get eight people to 1:27:10.840 --> 1:27:13.400 show up to a place to eat dinner, you can 1:27:13.439 --> 1:27:17.240 do this. It is it is largely the same skill sets, 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:19.639 and all of the skill sets that make people good 1:27:19.720 --> 1:27:23.600 organizers are skill sets that you have to develop to 1:27:24.040 --> 1:27:26.200 you know, work a job right. You know, like one 1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:27.519 of the things that comes up a lot in this 1:27:27.600 --> 1:27:30.640 which is less discussed and also kind of annoying. But 1:27:30.720 --> 1:27:32.479 you know, you have to manage it is that organizing 1:27:32.520 --> 1:27:34.640 is about people and sometimes you have to you know, 1:27:34.640 --> 1:27:35.800 you have to do things like you have to manage 1:27:35.800 --> 1:27:38.040 people's egos. But like, I don't know, almost all of 1:27:38.080 --> 1:27:40.800 you work jobs or have work jobs, right, you have 1:27:40.920 --> 1:27:44.320 had to like deal with your boss being on one right, 1:27:44.920 --> 1:27:47.599 you have the skills to do this. You know how 1:27:47.600 --> 1:27:52.479 to do the interpersonal relationship stuff. It's just that you 1:27:52.479 --> 1:27:56.320 don't think about that as organizing, even though that's that's 1:27:56.439 --> 1:27:57.400 just what it is. 1:27:58.240 --> 1:28:00.519 Yeah, that's the core of it is get people to 1:28:00.560 --> 1:28:03.400 do stuff like you do it every day. 1:28:04.280 --> 1:28:07.040 Yeah, And the way you do this is by building 1:28:07.080 --> 1:28:10.120 relationships with people, right, And this isn't necessarily friendships, although 1:28:10.160 --> 1:28:12.680 that works. And like, one of the easiest ways to 1:28:12.720 --> 1:28:15.599 start organizing is by getting all of your friends together 1:28:15.680 --> 1:28:18.080 because you're already friends, you have pre existing relationships, and 1:28:18.120 --> 1:28:22.559 being like, Okay, motherfuckers, we gotta go do something. And 1:28:22.640 --> 1:28:24.479 actually I love that The first thing that you brought 1:28:24.520 --> 1:28:28.880 up was an admittedly sort of medium ish scale lift 1:28:29.080 --> 1:28:31.400 version of this. But one of the very easiest things 1:28:31.400 --> 1:28:33.439 that you can do is you can just get food 1:28:33.560 --> 1:28:35.360 of some kind. You can either buy it or you 1:28:35.360 --> 1:28:38.200 can make it yourself, and you and a group of 1:28:38.280 --> 1:28:40.559 like eight people, not even eight people, you can do 1:28:40.600 --> 1:28:43.320 it with lower I know people who've done this just solo. 1:28:44.000 --> 1:28:46.280 Is that you can just go give food to people. Yeah, 1:28:46.439 --> 1:28:48.280 literally it was this morning. 1:28:49.280 --> 1:28:49.760 So I'm tired. 1:28:49.840 --> 1:28:52.160 Yesterday morning, I have some mine house neighbors, right and 1:28:52.200 --> 1:28:53.720 it was cold, and so I went out and gave 1:28:53.800 --> 1:28:57.759 them some hot breakfast, so hot coffee. It's super easy 1:28:57.800 --> 1:29:01.080 to do. If you are struggling wherever you are, maybe 1:29:01.120 --> 1:29:02.920 you're finding it hard to make friends. I know that's 1:29:02.920 --> 1:29:05.599 the thing that people often struggle, especially if you've moved 1:29:05.640 --> 1:29:08.439 to a new place or post pandemic, or you're still 1:29:08.439 --> 1:29:10.880 concerned with Liuvede gatherings or any of those things. Like, 1:29:11.160 --> 1:29:13.840 if you start doing that, you will find other people 1:29:14.080 --> 1:29:15.960 who want to do it too, Like so many of 1:29:16.000 --> 1:29:19.400 my friends I organize with are people Like when we 1:29:19.439 --> 1:29:21.160 had the end of Title forty two and people were 1:29:21.160 --> 1:29:24.080 in between the fences that a lot of the people 1:29:24.080 --> 1:29:26.960 who I organize with now or who helped people with now, 1:29:26.960 --> 1:29:30.000 I didn't know. I just showed up with a giant 1:29:30.000 --> 1:29:32.400 sider generator that I happened to have and some stuff 1:29:32.439 --> 1:29:34.320 that we had to whip around a call zone for 1:29:34.800 --> 1:29:37.200 and like, people who care about the same things as 1:29:37.240 --> 1:29:39.800 you are generally cool and it's a good way to 1:29:39.880 --> 1:29:42.400 make friends, and then you can go on from there. 1:29:43.560 --> 1:29:46.840 Yeah, and there's a second compounding thing here too, which 1:29:46.880 --> 1:29:50.559 is that you know, feeding people it's a way to 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:53.679 build relationships with people. And also it's a really good 1:29:53.760 --> 1:29:57.120 way for people to get to know you in general 1:29:57.160 --> 1:29:59.040 and know that you are someone who will help them 1:29:59.040 --> 1:30:01.080 with things. Yeah, and from there, and this is a 1:30:01.160 --> 1:30:03.040 very common exception. I mean this is I literally had 1:30:03.120 --> 1:30:05.800 this conversation with one of my friends who's like an 1:30:05.840 --> 1:30:08.920 old school food not Bombs organizer. Food Nut Bombs is 1:30:08.920 --> 1:30:11.880 a very very it's a cool organization. You can just 1:30:12.000 --> 1:30:15.080 like found a food nut Bobs chapter. They have like 1:30:15.439 --> 1:30:18.320 a couple of principles, or you can just do your 1:30:18.360 --> 1:30:20.000 own thing. And I'm pretty sure it's still like the 1:30:20.080 --> 1:30:22.680 largest anarchist project in the world. Yeah, because all it 1:30:22.720 --> 1:30:25.360 takes is you and like three other people and you 1:30:25.479 --> 1:30:28.479 just go feed people. But the thing is from doing that, right, 1:30:28.520 --> 1:30:30.880 if there's other things that you're concerned about, people will 1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:33.519 bring you their problems and you can help them doing it. 1:30:33.560 --> 1:30:35.320 And this is a very good way to get into 1:30:35.400 --> 1:30:38.599 other kinds of organizing because suddenly, once you start building 1:30:38.640 --> 1:30:41.760 these relationships, everything sort of cycles and cycles, and you know, 1:30:41.800 --> 1:30:44.320 you get involved in more and more things. Yeah, and 1:30:44.600 --> 1:30:46.439 that's kind of a that's kind of a late stage 1:30:46.760 --> 1:30:49.000 thing that we're sort of jumping to a bit. But 1:30:49.080 --> 1:30:51.400 I want to go back to the beginnings of how so, 1:30:51.439 --> 1:30:54.160 how do you get a group of people together to 1:30:54.160 --> 1:30:57.800 do a thing? And the answer is you kind of 1:30:57.920 --> 1:31:01.320 already know how to because you you, presumably at some 1:31:01.400 --> 1:31:04.479 point in your life, have like organized a group of 1:31:04.479 --> 1:31:08.439 friends to go do something, right, Like I've gotten a 1:31:08.479 --> 1:31:11.120 group of people together to go accomplish a task. 1:31:11.439 --> 1:31:13.880 Yeah, and it could literally be anything, right like, yeah, 1:31:14.000 --> 1:31:15.880 if you've got some people to go to a bar, 1:31:16.760 --> 1:31:17.679 you have the skills. 1:31:18.040 --> 1:31:20.120 One way I've been thinking about it recently and in 1:31:20.200 --> 1:31:22.519 my project is putting is thinking about it as like 1:31:22.640 --> 1:31:24.200 putting together a heist crew. 1:31:25.960 --> 1:31:29.639 And Okay, I could vouch for this, right. 1:31:30.520 --> 1:31:33.880 The feeling of walking up to eight people and telling 1:31:33.920 --> 1:31:37.240 them individually, I'm putting together a team and I want 1:31:37.439 --> 1:31:40.360 you it is. It feels you can just do it. 1:31:40.479 --> 1:31:43.360 There is nothing stopping you. Nothing in the world can 1:31:43.400 --> 1:31:45.400 stop you from just walking up to your friend and going, 1:31:45.439 --> 1:31:49.320 I'm putting together a team. And it feels exactly as 1:31:49.360 --> 1:31:51.719 good as you think it would from a ice movie. 1:31:51.840 --> 1:31:52.759 It rules. 1:31:52.960 --> 1:31:55.520 It's so fun, amazing. 1:31:55.920 --> 1:31:59.000 Yeah, and and but this gets into also what kinds 1:31:59.160 --> 1:32:02.800 of people you want to do right, because obviously you 1:32:02.840 --> 1:32:06.320 know there's two vectors of this. There's on the one hand, 1:32:06.360 --> 1:32:09.360 you have the aspect of okay, who do you know, right, 1:32:09.400 --> 1:32:12.160 And a lot of organizing is just about, here is 1:32:12.200 --> 1:32:15.400 a problem, and I know someone who has some sort 1:32:15.400 --> 1:32:17.639 of skill or resource that can that can help deal 1:32:17.680 --> 1:32:19.680 with it, and you put people in touch with each other, 1:32:20.000 --> 1:32:24.439 and that's organizing. That's so much organizing is literally just hey, 1:32:24.760 --> 1:32:27.120 like I have like a broken part of my car. 1:32:27.560 --> 1:32:30.519 I know someone who's like a car mechanic, right, and 1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:33.439 you put them in touch and you have successfully organized people, 1:32:33.439 --> 1:32:36.080 and you have built relationships, and you have made all 1:32:36.120 --> 1:32:39.240 of the sort of social web that creates organizing, you've 1:32:39.240 --> 1:32:42.400 made it stronger. Yeah, it also just feels good because 1:32:42.600 --> 1:32:44.479 you know and that that's an auxiliary benefit to all 1:32:44.479 --> 1:32:46.120 of this is that it's a great It's a great 1:32:46.120 --> 1:32:49.160 way to sort of break break the isolation we're all under. 1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:54.599 Yeah, I think the best solution for despair is I'm 1:32:54.640 --> 1:32:57.920 thinking of a quotation here something that the busy bee 1:32:58.000 --> 1:33:00.760 have no time for despair. But the thing that makes 1:33:00.760 --> 1:33:02.800 me feel better about the world is that I have 1:33:03.000 --> 1:33:07.479 seen that people can fix massive problems with very few 1:33:07.560 --> 1:33:13.360 resources by just showing up. And like, I think, organizing 1:33:13.439 --> 1:33:15.559 is what gives me, what allows me to enter this 1:33:15.560 --> 1:33:17.760 period of time that we're entering into with a with 1:33:17.800 --> 1:33:19.840 a great deal more hope than I otherwise would have done. 1:33:20.680 --> 1:33:22.320 Yeah, and do you know what else will help you 1:33:22.439 --> 1:33:23.760 enter your situation? 1:33:25.680 --> 1:33:28.560 Is it the products and services that support this podcast. 1:33:28.720 --> 1:33:30.240 I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but 1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:33.400 we are not in control of the length of the ads. 1:33:34.720 --> 1:33:35.559 They just do it. 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:38.440 We're sorry, here's. 1:33:38.560 --> 1:33:51.840 A really long period of ads. I'm so sorry. We 1:33:52.040 --> 1:33:53.160 are back. 1:33:53.280 --> 1:33:55.400 So I want to I want to return to my 1:33:55.840 --> 1:33:57.479 highest creer if. I don't know if you're a D 1:33:57.479 --> 1:33:59.200 and D person, the other way you can think about 1:33:59.240 --> 1:34:00.840 this is you're putting to either like a Dungeons and 1:34:00.880 --> 1:34:03.960 Dragons party or like an RPG party. And the way 1:34:04.000 --> 1:34:06.759 you need to think about this is Okay, so you've 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:08.599 picked a thing that you want to do. 1:34:08.960 --> 1:34:09.160 Right. 1:34:09.280 --> 1:34:11.240 You see, you've seen something in the world that is 1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:13.559 bad and you figure it. You go, okay, I can 1:34:13.600 --> 1:34:15.559 do this thing to solve it. And maybe and maybe 1:34:15.680 --> 1:34:18.040 that's you know, it's literally something as simple as feeding people. 1:34:18.080 --> 1:34:20.680 Maybe that's you know, I want to start. I want 1:34:20.680 --> 1:34:22.920 to start doing tenants organizing. I want to start because 1:34:22.920 --> 1:34:25.040 my rent is too high, right, people are getting evicted. 1:34:25.080 --> 1:34:27.160 I want to start doing like immigration defense. 1:34:27.840 --> 1:34:28.040 Yeah. 1:34:28.280 --> 1:34:32.120 And from there you make a list and that list 1:34:32.600 --> 1:34:34.760 is you know what you're interested in doing, and you 1:34:35.240 --> 1:34:38.920 try to match what things need to be done with 1:34:39.160 --> 1:34:42.840 people you know who have those skills. Yeah, and this 1:34:42.920 --> 1:34:44.240 is you know this, this is this is where you 1:34:44.240 --> 1:34:46.880 release get into the higst things, right, because everyone has 1:34:46.920 --> 1:34:50.559 their sort of like highst role. Now, obviously, part of 1:34:50.560 --> 1:34:52.200 this that you want is you want to create sort 1:34:52.240 --> 1:34:56.000 of balanced teams, right. You want people who have overlapping strengths, 1:34:56.040 --> 1:34:58.000 so you don't just have only one person who can 1:34:58.040 --> 1:35:01.040 do a thing. And part of the way to successful 1:35:01.120 --> 1:35:04.639 organization works over time. And I mean just how successful 1:35:04.720 --> 1:35:08.040 organizing works is that eventually you are trying to organize 1:35:08.040 --> 1:35:10.840 yourself out of a job, which is to say, you 1:35:10.880 --> 1:35:13.240 want your organization to function such that if you're not 1:35:13.360 --> 1:35:15.800 able to do it, you know, or just you're gone, 1:35:15.840 --> 1:35:17.840 or you cycle onto a next thing, or you know, 1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:20.080 any any number of things that can happen. You want 1:35:20.120 --> 1:35:22.519 the organization to still be able to keep working without you, 1:35:22.600 --> 1:35:24.160 and you want you want you're trying to get people 1:35:24.200 --> 1:35:26.320 to be able to replace you as the person who's 1:35:26.360 --> 1:35:30.040 like organizing the thing, right. Yeah, And at this point 1:35:30.080 --> 1:35:33.360 we can start talking about the kinds of skills that 1:35:33.400 --> 1:35:36.519 people need for organizing, and a lot of people and 1:35:36.520 --> 1:35:39.599 this is unbelievably common when I talk to people, and 1:35:39.680 --> 1:35:42.320 like especially women and especially like a lot of non 1:35:42.360 --> 1:35:46.280 binary people and trans people particularly have this is that 1:35:47.120 --> 1:35:51.000 people don't believe that they have any skills. And then 1:35:51.040 --> 1:35:53.080 you talk to them for five seconds and they're like, well, 1:35:53.120 --> 1:35:55.840 I'm good at carrying heavy objects, right, I'm good with kids, 1:35:55.840 --> 1:35:57.920 which is a huge one. We'll get you in a second, right, 1:35:58.040 --> 1:36:00.640 Or like, I don't know, I have a call. That's 1:36:00.680 --> 1:36:03.360 a huge skill. There are so many different skills that 1:36:03.439 --> 1:36:05.920 are so useful for so many things. I'm just gonna 1:36:06.120 --> 1:36:08.439 go over lots of things that are actually really useful 1:36:08.479 --> 1:36:11.120 to get to get people a sense of like the 1:36:11.280 --> 1:36:13.559 kinds of things that there are. There are massive roles 1:36:13.560 --> 1:36:16.880 for so one of the most important ones, and this 1:36:16.920 --> 1:36:19.160 is something you can you deliberately look for. You know, 1:36:19.240 --> 1:36:20.519 this is this is one of the things you do 1:36:20.760 --> 1:36:23.840 at the beginning of any union organizing campaign. Someone who's 1:36:23.920 --> 1:36:26.960 good at talking to other people and making friends. That 1:36:27.160 --> 1:36:30.919 is a staggeringly useful person because again, most most organizing 1:36:31.040 --> 1:36:33.559 is just talking to people and building relationships. And you know, 1:36:33.600 --> 1:36:35.040 one of the things you do when you're when you're 1:36:35.080 --> 1:36:37.120 doing your sort of they call it power mapping, but 1:36:37.160 --> 1:36:39.360 when when you when you're figuring out how you're going 1:36:39.439 --> 1:36:42.240 to organize a workplace is you find the person who 1:36:42.280 --> 1:36:45.120 everyone likes and talks to and respects, and you talk 1:36:45.160 --> 1:36:47.920 to that person because that person can you know, can 1:36:47.960 --> 1:36:50.200 sort of like organize people down the chain because they 1:36:50.240 --> 1:36:52.639 have they have their relationships already and also they're good 1:36:52.720 --> 1:36:54.960 they'll be good at, you know, talking to new people 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:58.200 and and spreading your organization that way. And so, like, 1:36:58.439 --> 1:37:01.040 you know, if you're just someone who's social or and 1:37:01.080 --> 1:37:03.400 this is also very useful if you have a friend 1:37:03.720 --> 1:37:05.439 who is very social, because I know a lot of 1:37:05.520 --> 1:37:08.240 us are oporary social. But you probably have a friend 1:37:08.320 --> 1:37:10.240 that you're thinking of right now who is very good 1:37:10.320 --> 1:37:13.400 at conversations that is charming and is good at making friendships. 1:37:13.920 --> 1:37:17.759 That person unbelievably useful, incredibly useful and compelling skill. 1:37:18.280 --> 1:37:18.679 Yeah. 1:37:18.760 --> 1:37:21.160 There are also things like research people who are good 1:37:21.160 --> 1:37:23.080 at and I think people are much better at research 1:37:23.120 --> 1:37:26.120 than they think to take like a ten a's organizing example. Right, 1:37:26.160 --> 1:37:28.160 one of the common things you have to do is 1:37:28.640 --> 1:37:31.920 find out stuff about a landlord, right, Yeah, and there's 1:37:31.960 --> 1:37:34.840 the higher difficulty version of that, which isn't that hard. Also, 1:37:35.200 --> 1:37:37.400 I want to mention this, but like going to a 1:37:37.439 --> 1:37:41.920 courthouse and finding records about who owns property companies that 1:37:42.000 --> 1:37:43.880 high it's not that hard. It's like you could just 1:37:43.960 --> 1:37:46.360 do it, right, It's not as hard as you think 1:37:46.360 --> 1:37:49.320 it is from someone saying it. But there's also even 1:37:49.360 --> 1:37:51.000 just easier things than that, right, that all of you 1:37:51.040 --> 1:37:53.479 probably already know how to do, which is just looking 1:37:53.520 --> 1:37:57.160 at someone's social media profiles and finding out information about them. Yeah, 1:37:57.400 --> 1:38:00.839 and this is very useful, yeah, for like union campaign bosses. 1:38:01.000 --> 1:38:04.200 If you've ever been a person who uses dating apps, 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:07.400 especially if you're a woman, Yeah, yeah, then you know 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:11.000 how to ocin. Actually maybe you don't credit yourself with 1:38:11.000 --> 1:38:13.679 that skill, but one hundred percent that like, you've developed 1:38:13.680 --> 1:38:16.519 that skill to keep yourself safe and you can use 1:38:16.560 --> 1:38:17.040 it for good. 1:38:17.080 --> 1:38:18.760 Do you want to explain what ocenter is? 1:38:19.000 --> 1:38:21.280 And yes? How that how that process works? 1:38:21.360 --> 1:38:21.559 Yeah? 1:38:21.640 --> 1:38:21.880 Sure? 1:38:21.920 --> 1:38:25.280 So open source intelligence is it's an acreum doesn't really 1:38:25.320 --> 1:38:29.320 need to exist. It's gathering information of open sources, things 1:38:28.880 --> 1:38:31.759 that are openly accessible, right as opposed to like humint, 1:38:31.800 --> 1:38:34.640 which is like being a spy, or singint, which is 1:38:34.680 --> 1:38:38.680 capturing signals. Open source information is you're creeping someone's Instagram, 1:38:38.920 --> 1:38:42.160 creeping their Facebook, looking at the weird fucking shit that 1:38:42.200 --> 1:38:43.439 they put on good Reads. 1:38:43.560 --> 1:38:43.720 Right. 1:38:43.920 --> 1:38:46.280 All the data that is out there, largely on the Internet, 1:38:46.320 --> 1:38:48.840 about us. A lot of people put a lot of 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:52.920 information on the Internet, and it's very easy. And I 1:38:52.960 --> 1:38:56.000 would imagine that if you're under fifty and maybe if 1:38:56.040 --> 1:38:58.400 you're over fifty two, like you just know how to 1:38:58.439 --> 1:39:01.040 do this because it's what you do anyway you want 1:39:01.040 --> 1:39:04.640 to find out about someone, And especially if you are 1:39:04.680 --> 1:39:06.599 a person who goes on dates with people who you 1:39:06.600 --> 1:39:08.720 haven't met before and haven't been introduced to by a 1:39:08.760 --> 1:39:11.360 mutual friend, but you meet on the internet, you probably 1:39:11.360 --> 1:39:13.080 already do this to keep yourself safe. 1:39:13.520 --> 1:39:15.880 Yeah, and this is something that's very useful for I mean, 1:39:15.920 --> 1:39:18.439 there's so many use cases for this, right There's you know, 1:39:18.479 --> 1:39:20.760 there's the very obvious ones where you're dealing with the 1:39:20.800 --> 1:39:23.320 local Nazi and you're trying to organize around like running 1:39:23.360 --> 1:39:25.360 them out. People say from them and you can find 1:39:25.360 --> 1:39:28.519 information about them. But I mean, it's useful for cops 1:39:28.520 --> 1:39:32.080 who are beating people. Is useful for like politicians particularly, 1:39:32.760 --> 1:39:35.120 It can be very useful for it's useful for landlords. 1:39:35.120 --> 1:39:37.760 This happens all the time. It can be very very 1:39:37.840 --> 1:39:42.280 useful for bosses and union campaigns. Unions have like teams 1:39:42.320 --> 1:39:45.200 of researchers usually to like do this kind of stuff. 1:39:45.240 --> 1:39:47.120 But the thing is also and this is something I 1:39:47.120 --> 1:39:49.880 don't think people understand. Those guys, like the people they're 1:39:49.960 --> 1:39:52.559 hiring to be researchers are just you, but they got 1:39:52.600 --> 1:39:54.920 a job being a researcher for a union. Like they 1:39:54.920 --> 1:39:56.680 have the same skills as you. They know how to 1:39:56.760 --> 1:39:59.000 like Google stuff, and they know how to look through 1:39:59.040 --> 1:40:02.479 people's like data profiles and like look through their their 1:40:02.520 --> 1:40:06.040 facebooks and their Instagrams and like A big one, A 1:40:06.080 --> 1:40:09.479 big one that that the rich people especially do not 1:40:09.640 --> 1:40:14.160 think about, is like cash app and venmo oh venop 1:40:14.439 --> 1:40:17.240 because yeah, yeah, because because people's peoples trying, people just 1:40:17.280 --> 1:40:19.360 leave public transactions out there like that. That's how they 1:40:19.439 --> 1:40:23.080 got what's his name, the congressional magates. Can I legally 1:40:23.120 --> 1:40:25.760 call him the congressional pedophile? I guess they call him 1:40:25.760 --> 1:40:27.000 the accused pedophile? 1:40:27.680 --> 1:40:30.559 Yeah, yeah, the man credibly accused of sleeping with an 1:40:30.640 --> 1:40:32.960 underage woman lots of times, you know. 1:40:33.000 --> 1:40:34.760 And one of the ways they found that was that 1:40:34.920 --> 1:40:38.240 and also like paying paying for that right, yes, which 1:40:38.280 --> 1:40:39.640 is which is rape. By the way, I want to 1:40:39.640 --> 1:40:42.240 be very clear about that, like, yeah, having sex with 1:40:42.240 --> 1:40:43.679 someone who is underage is rape. 1:40:43.680 --> 1:40:45.160 It is always rape, you know. 1:40:45.160 --> 1:40:46.840 And the way people found that was that they just 1:40:46.960 --> 1:40:49.519 looked through like his cash app history and they found 1:40:49.560 --> 1:40:52.920 all of these money transfers to people. You know, this 1:40:52.960 --> 1:40:55.880 is all very very simple stuff. That's that's very very 1:40:55.960 --> 1:40:59.040 useful organizing wise, that you already know. 1:40:59.000 --> 1:40:59.400 How to do. 1:41:00.160 --> 1:41:00.400 Yeah. 1:41:00.640 --> 1:41:03.720 Pinterest is another absolute back to people. Yeah, so much 1:41:04.720 --> 1:41:06.679 people on a pinning that they be pinning. 1:41:07.160 --> 1:41:09.360 You know, if if you're hearing some of these things 1:41:09.760 --> 1:41:12.400 and you think that you can figure out how to 1:41:12.439 --> 1:41:15.720 do this. That's also a huge skill. Finding people who 1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:18.360 are willing to learn things and willing to learn new 1:41:18.439 --> 1:41:23.200 skills is a huge benefit to organizers because you know this, 1:41:23.360 --> 1:41:25.920 this gives you, Like, this gives you a flexible person, right, 1:41:26.160 --> 1:41:27.920 it gives it gives you someone you can like flex 1:41:28.000 --> 1:41:30.000 into into any of a bunch of roles that you need. 1:41:30.040 --> 1:41:33.280 And also can you know, pick up skills to learn things. 1:41:33.960 --> 1:41:36.360 Having a car, being able to drive, and I know 1:41:36.400 --> 1:41:37.720 a lot of you don't do this, but if you 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:40.280 do do this, this is you immediately, even if you 1:41:40.320 --> 1:41:43.599 literally cannot contribute anything else to a project. Being able 1:41:43.640 --> 1:41:46.160 to just drive a bunch of water to a place, 1:41:46.439 --> 1:41:48.479 oh yeah, huge, staggeringly useful. 1:41:48.840 --> 1:41:51.320 The amount of things that people can't access because they 1:41:51.360 --> 1:41:55.519 can't get there, it's vast, especially when I when I 1:41:55.560 --> 1:41:57.880 talk to migrants, right, have recently arrived in the US. 1:41:57.880 --> 1:41:59.920 They don't have a US cell phone, they can't uber. 1:42:00.360 --> 1:42:00.880 Yeah. 1:42:01.160 --> 1:42:04.519 Oftentimes nowadays you can't even pay for mass transit with cash. 1:42:04.560 --> 1:42:06.880 You have to have a special card and then you 1:42:06.920 --> 1:42:08.639 have to get to the place to get the card. Right. 1:42:08.760 --> 1:42:11.240 The problems you can solve by being able to drive 1:42:11.280 --> 1:42:15.599 someone five miles are enormous, especially in the US where 1:42:15.720 --> 1:42:18.760 everything is designed around everyone owning a motor car at 1:42:18.760 --> 1:42:19.240 all times. 1:42:19.439 --> 1:42:19.679 Yep. 1:42:20.280 --> 1:42:24.479 Yeah, And like transport based skills are also very useful. 1:42:24.720 --> 1:42:27.040 I mean, if you hike a lot, that's a very 1:42:27.160 --> 1:42:29.960 very useful skill. There's a lot of sort of mutual 1:42:29.960 --> 1:42:31.599 aid projects. There's a lot of you know, I mean 1:42:31.680 --> 1:42:33.920 even things like setting up summer camps is the thing 1:42:33.920 --> 1:42:36.680 that like leftist groups do right, and being able to 1:42:36.760 --> 1:42:38.360 hike very good for that. It's good for things like 1:42:38.360 --> 1:42:40.400 wilderness rescue. There's a lot of you know, the jams, 1:42:40.439 --> 1:42:42.000 like the work you do that has to do with 1:42:42.560 --> 1:42:45.479 like going in helping migrants. Like being able to hike 1:42:45.720 --> 1:42:48.160 is staggeringly useful skill. 1:42:48.720 --> 1:42:52.400 Yeah, yeah, it's very like, it's useful, it's important. It's 1:42:52.400 --> 1:42:54.840 okay if that's not something you can physically do or 1:42:55.080 --> 1:42:56.680 you know that that works for the way you like 1:42:56.720 --> 1:42:59.040 to live your life. Like another thing I was thinking 1:42:59.080 --> 1:43:02.080 of which can be mass important and people don't realize 1:43:02.240 --> 1:43:04.599 is if you know how to take off a tail 1:43:04.680 --> 1:43:08.120 light and replace the bulb in it. Yes, Like we're 1:43:08.280 --> 1:43:11.320 entering a time when people with DAKA, people with TPS. 1:43:11.320 --> 1:43:14.439 People who are undocumented, people are on temporary migration statuses 1:43:14.479 --> 1:43:16.800 are going to be definitely afraid of any interaction with 1:43:16.880 --> 1:43:21.960 law enforcement. If you can change the bulb on someone's 1:43:22.000 --> 1:43:24.920 tail light or their turn signal indicators of US in 1:43:24.920 --> 1:43:28.840 the UK, then you can meaningfully protect that person in 1:43:28.880 --> 1:43:32.200 a really important way. And it can literally take ten minutes. 1:43:32.479 --> 1:43:35.439 And this is something that you can scale up depending 1:43:35.439 --> 1:43:38.080 on how much skill you have. Right, there's even just 1:43:38.240 --> 1:43:41.360 very basic auto maintenance stuff is very useful for stuff 1:43:41.360 --> 1:43:44.599 like this. But you know, like if you're a carpenter, right, 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:47.960 if you're an electrician, you do some kind of trade work, right, 1:43:47.960 --> 1:43:50.200 you do plumbing, right, That is the thing that is 1:43:50.280 --> 1:43:54.080 massively useful to a lot of people. There's a lot 1:43:54.120 --> 1:43:56.639 of other kind of just skills that you have from 1:43:56.720 --> 1:43:59.200 your job that can be very useful. I mean, having 1:43:59.200 --> 1:44:04.000 someone to manage spreadsheet, oh yeah, yeah, is staggeringly useful. 1:44:04.040 --> 1:44:06.840 And another one that I think people don't understand that 1:44:06.880 --> 1:44:09.840 they really have, but like being able to set up 1:44:09.880 --> 1:44:14.559 a meeting and like having a thing that lets you 1:44:15.080 --> 1:44:18.599 be like, okay, here's when everyone is free. Like you 1:44:18.640 --> 1:44:21.519 probably have to do this for your job or just 1:44:21.520 --> 1:44:23.559 for you know, trying to get your friends to go 1:44:24.160 --> 1:44:27.000 even just like be on a call together or like 1:44:27.200 --> 1:44:32.160 go have food or like just do anything. That is 1:44:32.560 --> 1:44:35.160 what literally, genuinely one of the most important skills you 1:44:35.160 --> 1:44:37.320 can possibly have as an organizer is the ability to 1:44:37.400 --> 1:44:39.679 just sort of like go talk to people and be like, hey, 1:44:39.720 --> 1:44:41.160 can you show up to this thing here? 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:42.520 Yeah? 1:44:42.600 --> 1:44:44.160 And that is that is so much of just what 1:44:44.320 --> 1:44:47.559 organizing is. Can you be here at this time? And 1:44:47.600 --> 1:44:48.920 then trying to figure out a time. 1:44:49.439 --> 1:44:49.919 Yeah. 1:44:49.960 --> 1:44:51.679 So we're going to close out this sort of skill 1:44:51.800 --> 1:44:53.919 section with some I think just sort of like domestic 1:44:53.960 --> 1:44:57.040 ese skills that I don't think people realize are super useful. 1:44:57.720 --> 1:44:59.800 If you have a button maker, you are instantly the 1:44:59.840 --> 1:45:02.160 same most useful person in any organization. 1:45:02.560 --> 1:45:03.040 I love that. 1:45:03.120 --> 1:45:06.120 Yeah, well, you could obtain a button maker. They're very 1:45:06.120 --> 1:45:09.439 easy to use. But if you have one or you 1:45:09.560 --> 1:45:11.799 know the person who has the button maker, and suddenly 1:45:11.800 --> 1:45:14.080 you can just crank out buttons for every single event 1:45:14.360 --> 1:45:18.080 they rule. Everyone loves them. It helps, It helps me enormously. 1:45:18.520 --> 1:45:19.320 It's awesome. 1:45:19.800 --> 1:45:24.639 That's a badge for those us in the Commonwealth. Also, 1:45:24.680 --> 1:45:26.800 if you have a sewing machine, Yeah, I was about 1:45:26.840 --> 1:45:28.479 to mention that, yeah, yeah, you're a hero. 1:45:28.720 --> 1:45:28.920 Yeah. 1:45:29.080 --> 1:45:31.120 One of my friends recently made me a little patch 1:45:31.960 --> 1:45:34.479 and it's really cool and I like it and putting 1:45:34.560 --> 1:45:37.679 all my stuff. But if you can sew, like, that's 1:45:37.720 --> 1:45:40.880 a skill that I do not have. And it's so 1:45:41.040 --> 1:45:45.559 great when people can fix stuff for someone or you know, 1:45:45.560 --> 1:45:48.000 make stuff fit someone. You know, if you're a person 1:45:48.000 --> 1:45:49.840 who finds it hard to get clothes that you like 1:45:49.920 --> 1:45:52.760 to wear that make you feel good and someone one 1:45:52.760 --> 1:45:55.360 of my friends could do that. And one of my 1:45:55.400 --> 1:46:00.920 friends was making clothes for another friend for like a 1:46:00.960 --> 1:46:03.639 renaissance fair, and like it was the nicest thing I've 1:46:03.640 --> 1:46:05.840 seen someone do for someone else in a very long time. 1:46:06.040 --> 1:46:10.880 It really made her like, yeah, feel like nice and 1:46:11.200 --> 1:46:13.559 cared for. And like you might think that like this 1:46:13.640 --> 1:46:14.800 is just a weird little thing that you like to 1:46:14.800 --> 1:46:17.599 do with your sewing machine, but you can meaningfully really 1:46:17.600 --> 1:46:19.360 make someone feel cared for using that. 1:46:19.880 --> 1:46:22.840 Yeah, And that's a huge part of what organizing is right, 1:46:23.400 --> 1:46:25.120 and and that that goes into one of the things 1:46:25.160 --> 1:46:28.479 that is also an appreciable skill that's very useful, is 1:46:29.000 --> 1:46:31.599 I mean just like being nice to people, being kind 1:46:31.640 --> 1:46:34.439 to people, and having people around who are good at 1:46:34.640 --> 1:46:38.360 like keeping groups together. Yeah, and that's its own distinct 1:46:38.520 --> 1:46:41.280 kind of person is someone who can you know, keep 1:46:41.360 --> 1:46:43.479 all of the people who are involved in a thing 1:46:44.200 --> 1:46:47.240 enjoying being around each other. That's that's that's a kind 1:46:47.280 --> 1:46:49.479 of person who's very valuable. And it's something that you 1:46:49.520 --> 1:46:51.559 can look for, you know. And if that's not you, 1:46:51.600 --> 1:46:53.639 like you can there's something you can you know, find 1:46:53.640 --> 1:46:55.160 in your friends. You can find in the sort of 1:46:55.160 --> 1:46:55.920 the people around you. 1:46:56.760 --> 1:46:57.760 Yeah, definitely. 1:46:58.320 --> 1:47:01.160 There's also something that I think you can tell when 1:47:01.200 --> 1:47:04.120 an organization is collapsing, because this is like the first 1:47:04.160 --> 1:47:07.599 thing with the quality drops drawing and graphic design are 1:47:07.720 --> 1:47:10.040 very very useful because a big part of what you 1:47:10.080 --> 1:47:12.800 do organizing is like you make a flyer and you 1:47:12.840 --> 1:47:14.800 put a flyer on a bunch of telephone poles to 1:47:14.800 --> 1:47:18.840 tell people that there's a thing happening. Yea, and yeah, 1:47:19.040 --> 1:47:21.000 you know, and this is also something you know later 1:47:21.080 --> 1:47:23.200 on you might be making a social media presence, but 1:47:23.320 --> 1:47:26.960 just having good artists and having good graphic design people 1:47:27.080 --> 1:47:31.400 is enormously useful for this kind of stuff. Yeah, And 1:47:31.520 --> 1:47:34.679 along this line, these things like making music and there's 1:47:34.680 --> 1:47:36.160 a bunch of different ways this can go this can 1:47:36.200 --> 1:47:38.120 be an immediate thing where you know, like you have 1:47:38.160 --> 1:47:40.559 people on a picket line, right and everyone's singing songs 1:47:40.600 --> 1:47:43.200 and this is great. We love this also, and this 1:47:43.240 --> 1:47:45.040 is another thing that you can be thinking about in 1:47:45.120 --> 1:47:46.960 terms of what skills you have and what things you 1:47:46.960 --> 1:47:50.559 can create benefit shows. This has been a huge part 1:47:50.600 --> 1:47:52.240 of a lot of how some of the Union stuff 1:47:52.320 --> 1:47:54.599 up here has been getting funded is by just having 1:47:54.680 --> 1:47:57.320 like punk benefit shows. And if that's the thing that 1:47:57.360 --> 1:47:59.439 you can do, well, you know, people in bands, you 1:47:59.479 --> 1:48:01.160 know people who make music, you know people who just 1:48:01.200 --> 1:48:04.240 make stuff who are willing to contribute it to the cause, 1:48:05.040 --> 1:48:06.080 that's great. 1:48:06.680 --> 1:48:09.680 I remember one of we had one night last September 1:48:09.960 --> 1:48:11.720 so cold. We were in the desert and I'm like 1:48:12.200 --> 1:48:15.000 a thousand people, right, and we were at that point 1:48:15.040 --> 1:48:17.000 we were really struggling to feed everyone, even you know, 1:48:17.040 --> 1:48:18.880 because there was so few of us. But my friend 1:48:18.880 --> 1:48:21.880 bought out like their guitar and some bongo drums they had, 1:48:21.920 --> 1:48:23.679 and I think I had my harmonica in my truck, 1:48:24.439 --> 1:48:27.840 and like we were sitting around with these. We had 1:48:27.840 --> 1:48:31.240 some seek guys, had some Weiga folks come from China, 1:48:31.439 --> 1:48:33.400 and then some Kourdish people and they were all displaying 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:37.760 their different music and it was so nice like that, 1:48:38.200 --> 1:48:40.559 taking people out of a shitty situation for a moment 1:48:40.600 --> 1:48:43.439 with music. Again, like, don't underestimate how important that it. 1:48:43.520 --> 1:48:45.160 Don't feel like if you have that skill, it's not 1:48:45.200 --> 1:48:46.000 a useful one. 1:48:46.560 --> 1:48:48.720 No, And this is something I've been starting to say 1:48:48.760 --> 1:48:51.519 more and more. If you need a three brained way 1:48:51.800 --> 1:48:55.440 to say this to someone who like is is like 1:48:55.120 --> 1:49:00.360 a curmudgety marksist who hates fun. Moral is it terrain 1:49:00.439 --> 1:49:03.360 of struggle that this is. There's a reason why morale 1:49:03.479 --> 1:49:06.480 is one of the most important factors of military campaigns. 1:49:06.560 --> 1:49:08.720 You can't get people to do things if they're too 1:49:08.720 --> 1:49:11.320 depressed to do it. Yeah, And being able to raise 1:49:11.360 --> 1:49:15.280 people's morale, it's it's this massive if you want again, 1:49:15.320 --> 1:49:17.160 want to go into technical language, is a massive force 1:49:17.240 --> 1:49:20.679 multiplayer right, It makes everyone you have enormously more effective, 1:49:20.680 --> 1:49:22.519 the better they feel about themselves and the better they 1:49:22.520 --> 1:49:26.240 feel about the situation they're in. And things like music, 1:49:26.320 --> 1:49:29.479 things like art, I mean things like pulling pranks. 1:49:30.280 --> 1:49:32.439 This thing, yeah, if you were, if. 1:49:32.320 --> 1:49:35.960 You were a good practical jokester, this is a staggeringly 1:49:36.080 --> 1:49:38.920 useful skill. Both like in terms of you know, you 1:49:38.960 --> 1:49:41.160 need to be careful about whether you're you're playing your 1:49:41.200 --> 1:49:43.080 pranks on like other people in the org. But like 1:49:43.920 --> 1:49:46.240 you know, if you know how to just like pull pranks, 1:49:46.320 --> 1:49:50.040 this is a really really useful thing in like union campaigns, 1:49:50.280 --> 1:49:53.000 tenants organizing. There are a lot of people who you 1:49:53.040 --> 1:49:56.160 can prank and it's very funny and it lowers their 1:49:56.200 --> 1:49:57.920 morale and it raises your morale. 1:49:58.680 --> 1:50:00.840 Yeah, and I can bet to you music as are 1:50:00.880 --> 1:50:03.080 like like morale is a terrain of struggle. Like the 1:50:03.120 --> 1:50:05.760 other memory I have last year of playing guitars is 1:50:06.360 --> 1:50:10.719 in Rajava, being inside at night because everyone was getting 1:50:10.800 --> 1:50:13.519 drone struck all the time and it was dangerous to 1:50:13.560 --> 1:50:17.400 be driving around, sitting around with some ZD friends and 1:50:17.479 --> 1:50:19.720 like we spent all night playing the ood, which is 1:50:19.760 --> 1:50:22.880 like a it's like a guitar with a gord on 1:50:22.920 --> 1:50:25.280 the bottom of it. To describe it, like it's a 1:50:25.280 --> 1:50:27.400 string instrument. It's a string instrument, is what it is. 1:50:27.800 --> 1:50:31.639 And like that made everyone so happy. We had such 1:50:31.640 --> 1:50:35.400 a nice evening. Everyone was able to like get through 1:50:35.439 --> 1:50:38.519 it's a relatively difficult thing. Like, you know, it sucks 1:50:38.640 --> 1:50:41.439 that people are being killed and just for driving around 1:50:41.479 --> 1:50:43.960 are existing, and they're bombing all this c really infrastructure, 1:50:44.000 --> 1:50:46.599 and the power keeps going out and all these things, right, like, 1:50:46.680 --> 1:50:50.160 but there's a reason that those people have kept ood 1:50:50.240 --> 1:50:54.320 around after fifteen thirteen years of war, and it's because 1:50:54.320 --> 1:50:56.760 it is important, and so don't overlook that. 1:50:57.439 --> 1:51:00.360 And you know, and resisting fear is in a huge 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:02.960 aspect of this, right, A lot of the ways that 1:51:03.000 --> 1:51:06.360 people like a lot of the ways that you demobilize people. 1:51:06.479 --> 1:51:09.040 This is, this is why regimes like this spend a 1:51:09.080 --> 1:51:11.600 lot of effort trying to make people afraid. He is 1:51:11.600 --> 1:51:13.840 that it makes it harder for you to act. And 1:51:13.960 --> 1:51:16.639 things that you know, the things that make you less afraid, 1:51:17.080 --> 1:51:20.680 even if they sort of seem silly, are very very important. 1:51:21.200 --> 1:51:23.120 And you know, on sort of this note, one of 1:51:23.120 --> 1:51:25.320 the things that you know, as you've assembled your group 1:51:25.360 --> 1:51:27.960 of people, right, one of the things that that that's 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:30.920 important to be able to sort of have a grasp 1:51:31.000 --> 1:51:34.920 on is that you can't just do organizing by having 1:51:35.000 --> 1:51:39.520 it only be the capital, the serious thing, the captialty 1:51:39.880 --> 1:51:42.479 organizing thing all the time. Your organization will not hold together. 1:51:42.920 --> 1:51:47.160 There has to be actual like bonds formed between you 1:51:47.240 --> 1:51:49.080 and the people you're organizing. With and the people you're 1:51:49.120 --> 1:51:49.679 trying to help. 1:51:50.600 --> 1:51:52.599 I don't want to call out any organization in particular, 1:51:52.880 --> 1:51:56.240 there is an organization that perceives organizing to exist solely 1:51:56.240 --> 1:51:58.320 in the realm of wearing a high based vest and 1:51:58.360 --> 1:52:01.120 carrying a clipboard and getting people to write their email 1:52:01.160 --> 1:52:05.160 addresses down and then telling them to attend things. And 1:52:05.360 --> 1:52:07.519 like maybe there are several organizations like that. 1:52:07.560 --> 1:52:08.000 I don't know. 1:52:08.080 --> 1:52:10.640 I've just I've perceived one locally. If you don't have 1:52:10.760 --> 1:52:16.719 those bonds that like those interpersonal relationships, like these things 1:52:16.800 --> 1:52:20.879 won't hang together. Like yeah, So many of my happiest 1:52:20.920 --> 1:52:23.920 organizing memories, like again going down James's memory Lane, I 1:52:23.960 --> 1:52:27.920 guess I have a memory of like Christmas Eve last year, 1:52:28.280 --> 1:52:30.639 twenty twenty three, me and my friends have been out. 1:52:31.040 --> 1:52:32.400 I know some of them listen because some of them 1:52:32.400 --> 1:52:34.320 have come across from different states to help us at 1:52:34.439 --> 1:52:37.960 Christmas Holidays, which is nice. And it was cold, and 1:52:38.000 --> 1:52:40.679 we had been feeding people all day, and then we'd 1:52:40.720 --> 1:52:42.960 heard some people in another location that we'd gone to find, 1:52:43.320 --> 1:52:44.800 and then we got to the end of the day 1:52:44.840 --> 1:52:47.280 and like, rather than just going home, I had a 1:52:47.280 --> 1:52:50.559 bunch of we had some MRIs left the refugee emory 1:52:50.680 --> 1:52:52.760 sort of vegan. Lots of us are vegan, so we 1:52:52.880 --> 1:52:54.759 were like, we're not going to find any other vegan 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:56.360 food in the middle of nowhere out here, so we'll 1:52:56.400 --> 1:52:59.840 set around eating the little vegan MREs and like just 1:53:00.080 --> 1:53:04.480 talking and like sharing some thoughts and things we experience 1:53:04.520 --> 1:53:07.439 over the last months of doing this, And like, it's 1:53:07.560 --> 1:53:11.400 those moments that make you're organizing groups so much stronger. 1:53:11.760 --> 1:53:14.439 No one's telling anyone to do anything, you know, there's 1:53:14.560 --> 1:53:17.160 genuine bonds and that the love and friendship we build 1:53:17.240 --> 1:53:19.280 up between each other doing things that are very important. 1:53:19.960 --> 1:53:24.719 Don't overlook the value of those because it's extremely valuable. 1:53:24.880 --> 1:53:27.600 And this is something that I think you can understand 1:53:27.840 --> 1:53:31.439 in your own life pretty easily, where Okay, if a 1:53:31.520 --> 1:53:34.040 random person on the street walks up to you and 1:53:34.120 --> 1:53:36.120 tells you to go do something, are you going to 1:53:36.120 --> 1:53:36.519 do it? 1:53:36.520 --> 1:53:38.439 It's like no, why? No? 1:53:38.560 --> 1:53:41.760 Probably not, Like I don't know, Maybe it's something like 1:53:42.080 --> 1:53:45.200 really sort of, hey, there's children in a burning building. 1:53:45.200 --> 1:53:46.880 We're going to run in and grab them, but like 1:53:47.360 --> 1:53:50.280 the odds are no, you're going to ignore them. But 1:53:50.400 --> 1:53:52.400 if your friend goes and tells you to do the 1:53:52.439 --> 1:53:55.320 same thing, and you know you've been friends with them 1:53:55.400 --> 1:53:57.280 for a long time and you really care about them, 1:53:57.400 --> 1:53:59.719 the odds of you doing it are much much higher. 1:54:00.200 --> 1:54:03.760 And that's that's all organizing is. It's finding ways to 1:54:04.040 --> 1:54:06.000 You have a thing to do, and you go talk 1:54:06.040 --> 1:54:08.240 to people and you ask if they want to help 1:54:08.280 --> 1:54:11.040 you do it. Yeah, And the stronger your relationships are, 1:54:11.040 --> 1:54:12.920 the more lucky that is to happen. And that's why 1:54:12.920 --> 1:54:15.840 it's very important to do things like you know, just 1:54:15.880 --> 1:54:18.960 like having potlucks, like bringing snacks to meetings. Oh yeah, 1:54:18.960 --> 1:54:21.400 and like you know, even if you're doing a potlucks, 1:54:21.439 --> 1:54:23.959 it's good to you know, you do like one capital 1:54:24.600 --> 1:54:26.840 capital T organizing thing, right, you get like a little 1:54:26.840 --> 1:54:29.080 bit of work done, but mostly everyone's just sort of 1:54:29.120 --> 1:54:31.320 relaxing and eating chili or whatever. 1:54:31.600 --> 1:54:35.120 Yeah, if you're a baker, you know you can bay people. 1:54:35.280 --> 1:54:36.840 It's a wonderful thing to shut god. 1:54:37.400 --> 1:54:37.640 Yes. 1:54:38.280 --> 1:54:38.480 Yeah. 1:54:38.720 --> 1:54:40.640 And just knowing how to cook. I realized I forgot 1:54:40.640 --> 1:54:42.480 to mention this one. Knowing how to cook is a 1:54:42.760 --> 1:54:47.120 staggeringly useful skill and it's useful in literally every literally 1:54:47.160 --> 1:54:49.000 any kind of organizing you can possibly be. 1:54:49.080 --> 1:54:50.000 And it is a thing. 1:54:50.240 --> 1:54:52.080 It is a skill that is useful in like it's 1:54:52.120 --> 1:54:55.880 useful in war zones. It's useful like literally, no matter 1:54:56.000 --> 1:54:58.800 what organization you are in, if you can cook for people, 1:54:59.080 --> 1:55:00.880 oh yeah, and you don't even and you don't have 1:55:00.920 --> 1:55:02.400 to be like a good cook. It's just like you 1:55:02.400 --> 1:55:04.920 can show up with food that you have made. You 1:55:05.240 --> 1:55:07.760 have instantly made this whole thing more successful. 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:11.680 Yeah, definitely, Like I've had some wonderful meals in water 1:55:11.760 --> 1:55:14.680 and and I've deeply appreciated those people. More broadly though, 1:55:14.760 --> 1:55:18.680 those ties like the way we organize without the state. 1:55:18.920 --> 1:55:22.200 The reason I believe that that is the way we 1:55:22.240 --> 1:55:24.440 should organize and the way we will continue to organize 1:55:24.440 --> 1:55:26.200 in a way that we can make the state irrelevant 1:55:26.640 --> 1:55:30.320 is because we understand each other as people and care 1:55:30.360 --> 1:55:33.280 about each other as people, and then we approach our 1:55:33.400 --> 1:55:36.960 organizing holistically, right with everyone in it, knowing this person 1:55:37.040 --> 1:55:39.520 is good at this, but they're struggling with this right now, 1:55:39.600 --> 1:55:41.040 and I care about them, so I'm not going to 1:55:41.080 --> 1:55:43.960 make them do that right now. That is how we 1:55:44.040 --> 1:55:47.320 can build sustainable communities in a way that state cannot 1:55:47.360 --> 1:55:51.600 and in a way that capitalism cannot. Right, because fucking hurts, 1:55:51.640 --> 1:55:56.720 rent a car doesn't care or know about its employees 1:55:56.800 --> 1:55:59.160 in a way that we who organize with people and 1:55:59.240 --> 1:56:03.160 care and I love one anob do and like that's 1:56:03.200 --> 1:56:07.160 why our organizations will always be stronger than those created 1:56:07.160 --> 1:56:08.320 by capitalism of the state. 1:56:08.640 --> 1:56:11.360 Yeah, unfortunately, speaking of capitalism of the state, we're taking 1:56:11.360 --> 1:56:12.680 our last ad break, would you. 1:56:13.560 --> 1:56:15.400 Yeah, hopefully it's a torndica. 1:56:26.000 --> 1:56:26.720 We are back. 1:56:26.960 --> 1:56:29.720 So I want to wrap things up by doing a 1:56:29.760 --> 1:56:32.520 couple of doing a few things. I want to talk 1:56:32.560 --> 1:56:35.640 about some kind of basic organizing things that you're going 1:56:35.680 --> 1:56:37.600 to have to do that are not very difficult but 1:56:37.680 --> 1:56:40.200 are extremely important. And second, I want to talk a 1:56:40.240 --> 1:56:43.120 bit about how we did the first organizing project that 1:56:43.160 --> 1:56:46.760 I ever was involved in, which was tenants organizing, Because 1:56:46.920 --> 1:56:50.760 it's really not that hard, right, if you just go 1:56:50.880 --> 1:56:54.000 do the thing, it will happen. Yeah, and suddenly it 1:56:54.080 --> 1:56:57.000 ceases to be this like, oh, this domain of expert 1:56:57.040 --> 1:56:59.080 knowledge and there's like, oh, this is a really difficult thing. 1:56:59.120 --> 1:57:00.920 If you just I don't know, you go give food 1:57:00.960 --> 1:57:04.000 to someone and suddenly you've done that and it's happened. 1:57:05.880 --> 1:57:10.000 So there are things that are important to like basic 1:57:10.120 --> 1:57:14.480 organizing stuff, knowing how to book rooms from like churches, 1:57:14.560 --> 1:57:19.160 from libraries, from whatever meeting spaces, and also knowing how 1:57:19.160 --> 1:57:23.520 to book rooms in places that like accommodate disabilities is 1:57:23.560 --> 1:57:26.520 a huge thing because a lot of people book meetings 1:57:26.520 --> 1:57:29.800 in places are a wheelchair accessible and it's a fucking fiasco. 1:57:30.480 --> 1:57:32.920 And you can avoid that very easily, but you have 1:57:33.000 --> 1:57:35.360 to put a little tiny bit of work into it. 1:57:35.560 --> 1:57:35.880 Yeah. 1:57:35.920 --> 1:57:37.920 Literally, I reached out to a friend to book a 1:57:38.000 --> 1:57:40.760 room last night because I knew they would get at 1:57:40.760 --> 1:57:41.200 that stuff. 1:57:41.520 --> 1:57:44.160 Yeah, you know, there's arranging people's schedules, getting people show 1:57:44.200 --> 1:57:46.120 up for stuff, things you can do to prepare if 1:57:46.120 --> 1:57:49.280 what you're doing is basically all the things we've been describing, right, 1:57:49.320 --> 1:57:51.320 getting together a bunch of people to do a thing 1:57:51.840 --> 1:57:55.400 that is technically forming an organization. Yeah, Now, how formal 1:57:55.520 --> 1:57:57.160 informat you want it to be, or just you know, 1:57:57.200 --> 1:57:59.840 maybe it's just your organizing project or whatever. There's things 1:57:59.880 --> 1:58:02.120 you usually want. You want some kind of email so 1:58:02.120 --> 1:58:05.200 people can contact you in tandem with the email. Something 1:58:05.240 --> 1:58:07.560 that's very helpful that I think younger people tend not 1:58:07.600 --> 1:58:10.760 to think about is getting Google Voice. Yes, when Google 1:58:10.840 --> 1:58:13.400 Voice lets you set up a voicemail account so people 1:58:13.440 --> 1:58:16.080 can call you and leave phone messages. I mean, everyone 1:58:16.120 --> 1:58:18.240 should just do this because this is the way that 1:58:18.280 --> 1:58:20.040 a lot of older people communicate. 1:58:20.120 --> 1:58:20.200 Right. 1:58:20.200 --> 1:58:21.720 They won't send you an email, but they will leave 1:58:21.760 --> 1:58:22.440 you a voice. 1:58:22.200 --> 1:58:25.880 Message, and it's very very useful for this. Childcare is 1:58:25.880 --> 1:58:28.480 something that's important. I did, I mean a lot is 1:58:28.480 --> 1:58:30.280 probably too strong of a word, but like I did 1:58:30.360 --> 1:58:33.760 childcare when I was organizing, and it wound up being 1:58:33.760 --> 1:58:35.720 really helpful because there's a lot of people with kids, 1:58:36.200 --> 1:58:38.040 and so you know, there's a couple of ways that 1:58:38.040 --> 1:58:39.880 this could work. One is that you know, you have 1:58:39.920 --> 1:58:41.720 everyone bring their kids. You have like a little space, 1:58:41.840 --> 1:58:43.920 you bring them like coloring stuff, you bring them toys, 1:58:43.920 --> 1:58:45.800 you bring them games, and you just sort of watch 1:58:45.800 --> 1:58:48.880 everyone for a while. And as an organizing thing, again, 1:58:48.920 --> 1:58:52.800 if you're good with kids, that's very useful, staggeringly useful 1:58:52.880 --> 1:58:53.600 organizing skill. 1:58:53.800 --> 1:58:54.000 Yeah. 1:58:54.240 --> 1:58:57.400 Another way this stuff happens is, you know, everyone pulls 1:58:57.440 --> 1:59:00.720 together ten bucks and you hire a babysitter, Yeah, for 1:59:00.760 --> 1:59:03.400 a bunch of kids. And that's a very useful organizing 1:59:03.480 --> 1:59:03.840 a thing. 1:59:04.200 --> 1:59:07.720 Yeah, I organize with people who have kids. I remember 1:59:08.760 --> 1:59:12.200 four years ago, fuck me twenty twenty, a long time ago, 1:59:12.280 --> 1:59:15.920 and also yesterday. But like we were organizing to feed 1:59:16.160 --> 1:59:18.800 and house people and we were having a big Thanksgiving dinner, 1:59:19.120 --> 1:59:21.360 and like, some of my friends have very young children 1:59:21.400 --> 1:59:24.440 and they bought them And I think it's actually really 1:59:24.480 --> 1:59:28.760 cool to do that. A like for those kids, it 1:59:28.880 --> 1:59:33.120 is normal that, like we look after people in our community. 1:59:33.200 --> 1:59:35.200 This is what we do and ever since I've been little, 1:59:35.240 --> 1:59:37.960 this is what we did, and like it's also very 1:59:38.080 --> 1:59:40.680 nice for people. Like a lot of my friends also 1:59:40.760 --> 1:59:43.520 brought their children down to the border, especially last year 1:59:43.560 --> 1:59:46.080 when we had because there were children there anyway, right, Yeah, 1:59:46.360 --> 1:59:48.920 some of my friends who bring their children down and 1:59:48.920 --> 1:59:50.840 their kids would play with the other kids, and like 1:59:51.160 --> 1:59:53.440 it doesn't matter that some of the kids are Kurdition 1:59:53.600 --> 1:59:55.080 and some of the kids are from China and some 1:59:55.120 --> 1:59:56.760 of them are from Columbia or whatever. Like they'll get 1:59:56.760 --> 1:59:58.880 along just fine. When they're four or five years old. 1:59:59.080 --> 2:00:01.240 They don't care. They want to kick a ball or 2:00:01.280 --> 2:00:03.800 see a Teddy Bear or something. And I think it's 2:00:03.840 --> 2:00:06.600 really good for your children to you know, you're bringing 2:00:06.640 --> 2:00:11.160 them into a world which is cruel and at times unequal, 2:00:11.320 --> 2:00:14.080 and like your kids seeing that, like we can make 2:00:14.080 --> 2:00:16.440 a difference and we can do this. I think it's 2:00:16.960 --> 2:00:18.920 one of the best educations you can give your children. 2:00:19.200 --> 2:00:22.800 Yeah, and it's something that's good for everyone involved. 2:00:23.080 --> 2:00:25.760 Yeah, exactly, And it's also very I think one of 2:00:25.760 --> 2:00:27.600 the things I see a lot wh people are organizing 2:00:27.640 --> 2:00:30.240 thing with refugees of the end House is like they're 2:00:30.320 --> 2:00:32.840 just people, Like you don't need to be afraid of them, 2:00:33.040 --> 2:00:37.000 Like they don't want to hurt your children. And having 2:00:37.040 --> 2:00:39.920 your children around shows that, like you have grasped they're 2:00:40.000 --> 2:00:42.000 just people, and that you feel safe and your children 2:00:42.040 --> 2:00:44.320 are safe around them. And I think that that's valuable too. 2:00:44.360 --> 2:00:47.400 You're giving both parties some dignity in that moment. 2:00:47.760 --> 2:00:48.360 Yeah. 2:00:48.440 --> 2:00:51.120 There are some other very basic things that I think 2:00:51.120 --> 2:00:54.240 are very important. If you've never done this before, I'm 2:00:54.240 --> 2:00:55.920 going to talk a little bit about how you run 2:00:55.960 --> 2:00:59.200 a meeting. Yeah, And you would think that this doesn't matter, 2:00:59.320 --> 2:01:02.200 and until you watch a group of one hundred people 2:01:02.200 --> 2:01:03.920 who don't know how to do this attempt to get 2:01:03.960 --> 2:01:06.160 anything done and they it just is a fiasco. 2:01:06.280 --> 2:01:08.040 And this is even true sort of smaller groups. 2:01:08.400 --> 2:01:10.400 Yeah, So I'm going to give you how to run 2:01:10.440 --> 2:01:14.200 a meeting one oh one, Okay, A very common way 2:01:14.280 --> 2:01:16.680 to organize meetings that people use all over the world 2:01:16.760 --> 2:01:18.880 and it's very effective. Is you have two things. You 2:01:18.880 --> 2:01:21.320 have an agenda and you have a stack. And those 2:01:21.360 --> 2:01:24.040 are like the technical terms for them. The agenda, I mean, 2:01:24.160 --> 2:01:26.000 is an agenda, right, you know what an agenda is. 2:01:26.080 --> 2:01:27.680 You put the things that you need to do on it. 2:01:28.280 --> 2:01:30.680 And another thing that's very helpful with these is you 2:01:30.680 --> 2:01:32.919 know you're going to be operating at our time constraints 2:01:32.960 --> 2:01:35.440 because people don't have forty five hours to be in meetings, 2:01:35.440 --> 2:01:36.840 and my god, you don't want to be in a 2:01:36.840 --> 2:01:40.200 meeting for that long. Yeah, you know. Knowing how long 2:01:40.320 --> 2:01:42.960 roughly you want to talk about these things is very 2:01:43.080 --> 2:01:45.920 very useful and making sure that you're of moving the 2:01:45.920 --> 2:01:48.640 conversation through the stuff on the agenda because you have 2:01:48.640 --> 2:01:51.680 more stuff you need to talk about. All of this again, 2:01:51.920 --> 2:01:54.400 like this all sounds very obvious, and again you know 2:01:54.440 --> 2:01:56.720 how to do it, But until you've been in a 2:01:56.800 --> 2:01:59.920 room where people have not realize they need to do this, 2:02:00.320 --> 2:02:01.839 you don't understand how I put. 2:02:01.600 --> 2:02:04.680 On this stuff gets the pain of it not happening. 2:02:04.760 --> 2:02:07.560 God, I have watched rooms full of like sciet these 2:02:07.600 --> 2:02:10.160 are like professional scientists, right, this is an entire room 2:02:10.160 --> 2:02:12.440 of one hundred feet of people with physics PhDs who 2:02:12.520 --> 2:02:14.400 don't know how to run a meeting, and it's a 2:02:14.560 --> 2:02:16.600 shit show. And all of this stuff could have been 2:02:16.600 --> 2:02:19.880 avoided with some very very simple things. Yes, the other thing, 2:02:20.000 --> 2:02:23.600 and this is genuinely a piece of social technology, right, 2:02:23.680 --> 2:02:25.920 it is the stack. It is very simple, right. You 2:02:25.960 --> 2:02:28.680 have one person who is the stack keeper, and whatsone 2:02:28.720 --> 2:02:30.600 wants to talk? You have one person talking at a time, 2:02:30.880 --> 2:02:32.720 and what someone wants to talk, they raise their hand, 2:02:32.880 --> 2:02:35.000 they make some kind of signal to the stack keeper, 2:02:35.040 --> 2:02:37.760 and that person writes their name down, and so you 2:02:37.840 --> 2:02:39.680 now have a list of who gets to talk in 2:02:39.720 --> 2:02:42.000 what order. And so you go down the list and 2:02:42.040 --> 2:02:46.080 people get the say things. And again you know how 2:02:46.080 --> 2:02:48.480 to do this. This is not like a complicated thing. 2:02:48.560 --> 2:02:51.760 But again I have watched people who collectively have like 2:02:52.040 --> 2:02:55.440 more PhDs than like I earn money in a week, 2:02:55.960 --> 2:02:57.560 Like who. 2:02:57.440 --> 2:02:59.760 Know, I can not be able to pick this out. 2:03:00.120 --> 2:03:00.560 You do. 2:03:00.840 --> 2:03:03.120 I believe in you. I believe in you, dear listener, 2:03:03.480 --> 2:03:05.960 that you can do this. Yeah, there's a very common 2:03:06.080 --> 2:03:08.760 Sometimes this is one person and sometimes this is two people. 2:03:09.360 --> 2:03:10.640 A very common way to do it is to have 2:03:10.640 --> 2:03:13.160 a stack taker and then have someone who's the facilitator, 2:03:13.200 --> 2:03:15.960 and the facilitator's job is to call on the people 2:03:16.480 --> 2:03:19.240 and to try to like move the conversation forwards and 2:03:19.320 --> 2:03:21.640 get and make sure make sure everyone's involved. And also 2:03:21.680 --> 2:03:23.680 another important part of this, and this is again something 2:03:23.720 --> 2:03:26.800 you'll know from your stupid work meetings, is you have 2:03:26.840 --> 2:03:29.360 to get people like me to shut up. Your meetings 2:03:29.400 --> 2:03:32.160 can't just be one person giving a speech. You have 2:03:32.200 --> 2:03:34.160 to cut them the fuck off and you have to 2:03:34.160 --> 2:03:35.240 get to the next person. 2:03:36.240 --> 2:03:38.720 Yeah, and doing that courteously is a skill. 2:03:38.960 --> 2:03:39.240 Yeah. 2:03:39.320 --> 2:03:42.280 Yeah, And finally, on this note, there's a lot of 2:03:42.320 --> 2:03:44.800 if you want to go into the like more technical stuff. 2:03:45.360 --> 2:03:48.000 Part of the things that facilitators use and part of 2:03:49.320 --> 2:03:51.520 you know, the formal name for this is like the 2:03:51.520 --> 2:03:54.480 progressive stack, but it's just a thing that's very useful 2:03:54.480 --> 2:03:56.680 in organizing is you want to make sure everyone in 2:03:56.720 --> 2:04:00.080 a room is engaged and talking and that it's not 2:04:00.280 --> 2:04:03.520 just three people who talk all the time. Yeah, and 2:04:03.680 --> 2:04:05.440 you know, and so the idea of the progressive stack, 2:04:05.520 --> 2:04:07.640 right is you're trying to find the most marginalized people 2:04:07.640 --> 2:04:09.840 in degrees, people who are least likely to speak, and 2:04:09.880 --> 2:04:12.360 you're trying to get them in first. And sometimes this 2:04:12.440 --> 2:04:14.760 is literally just like hey, someone hasn't been talking in 2:04:14.840 --> 2:04:16.280 a meeting this whole time, and you can like ask 2:04:16.320 --> 2:04:17.840 them what they think about something, or asked if they 2:04:17.880 --> 2:04:20.520 have anything to say, and a lot of times they will, 2:04:20.840 --> 2:04:22.600 but they just don't feel confident enough. 2:04:22.440 --> 2:04:22.800 To say it. 2:04:22.840 --> 2:04:25.040 And this is this is a very very important skill 2:04:25.120 --> 2:04:27.120 for a facilitator or just even you could just do 2:04:27.160 --> 2:04:29.960 this in a meeting too, right, Like you can be 2:04:30.000 --> 2:04:31.800 the person who goes like, hey, do you have this 2:04:31.800 --> 2:04:34.520 this person have anything to contribute? And that is an 2:04:34.680 --> 2:04:37.120 enormous thing. Sometimes it can be you know, sometimes it 2:04:37.160 --> 2:04:39.360 can be a little bit awkward, but it's a very 2:04:39.360 --> 2:04:43.120 important thing because you're just losing out on people who 2:04:43.120 --> 2:04:47.480 have really really valuable ideas and contributions and plans. And 2:04:47.920 --> 2:04:51.400 if you just let the same three people give speeches, 2:04:52.000 --> 2:04:55.160 you can't get to the stuff that's actually useful. 2:04:55.680 --> 2:04:59.080 Yeah, definitely, if you've been a teacher or in any 2:04:59.120 --> 2:05:02.000 way what you know, probably have had you have this skill. 2:05:02.520 --> 2:05:04.640 You might not consider it a skill, but even if 2:05:04.680 --> 2:05:06.480 you've been a TA in grad school something like that, 2:05:06.480 --> 2:05:07.720 you probably know how to do this. 2:05:08.320 --> 2:05:11.760 Yeah, so I'm gonna put all of this together briefly, 2:05:11.760 --> 2:05:14.720 and I'm going to run through basically how we started 2:05:14.720 --> 2:05:16.680 the first organizing project I ever day, which was a 2:05:16.680 --> 2:05:17.839 tenants union in Chicago. 2:05:18.360 --> 2:05:20.520 Okay, so this is based on my memory. 2:05:20.600 --> 2:05:22.480 It's been a long time since I did this, but 2:05:22.800 --> 2:05:25.800 my basic memory of what we did was. Okay, So 2:05:25.840 --> 2:05:28.280 one of my friends is an experienced organizer. I was 2:05:28.400 --> 2:05:30.960 like a tiny baby, right this this was my first 2:05:30.960 --> 2:05:32.560 offline organizing project ever. 2:05:32.720 --> 2:05:33.880 Right, I had no idea what was doing. 2:05:33.880 --> 2:05:36.960 I thought I was a guy, which like that, that's 2:05:37.000 --> 2:05:39.480 how much of a fiasco, Like little tidy baby bo 2:05:39.520 --> 2:05:42.240 who doesn't know anything this was, you know. And so 2:05:42.400 --> 2:05:44.720 my friend talked to some people that he knew, and 2:05:44.760 --> 2:05:46.480 he knew that I, you know, I was interested in 2:05:46.480 --> 2:05:48.000 getting involved in tennants organizing. 2:05:48.040 --> 2:05:48.800 And we we like. 2:05:48.800 --> 2:05:52.120 Went to a cafe and we sat down and we 2:05:52.320 --> 2:05:54.880 ate and we just talked about what we wanted to do, 2:05:54.960 --> 2:05:57.120 what our plans were, what things we needed to do 2:05:57.760 --> 2:06:01.160 to get this organization set up. We talked about ideological stuff, 2:06:01.200 --> 2:06:03.560 and that's actually is something that's important too, is part 2:06:03.560 --> 2:06:06.440 of organizing is getting people to think intentionally about their 2:06:06.440 --> 2:06:11.560 actions and think politically about their actions. Yeah, and that's 2:06:11.600 --> 2:06:13.280 something that's very useful. You also have to make sure 2:06:13.280 --> 2:06:15.440 that you're not forming a book club. Like book clubs 2:06:15.440 --> 2:06:18.400 are fine, but you need to make sure you're organizing group. 2:06:18.440 --> 2:06:19.840 If you try to do a thing, has it just 2:06:19.840 --> 2:06:22.280 become a book club. But that's you know that that 2:06:22.360 --> 2:06:24.560 was something that was very useful to us. And you know, 2:06:24.600 --> 2:06:27.240 we started making a plan. And our plan was, okay, 2:06:27.280 --> 2:06:29.080 we made a bunch of flyers and then we went 2:06:29.120 --> 2:06:30.760 out and I did this and I walked around through 2:06:30.760 --> 2:06:32.440 a bunch of streets and put them a light post 2:06:32.520 --> 2:06:34.920 or whatever, and then we put them like we hung 2:06:34.960 --> 2:06:37.000 them up in the buildings of tenants, you know, because 2:06:37.040 --> 2:06:38.480 you can just like walk up the stairs, right and 2:06:38.520 --> 2:06:40.080 you just put them on the walls. And you know, 2:06:40.160 --> 2:06:43.320 we had this flyer, this firehead information. This flyer said, okay, 2:06:43.320 --> 2:06:45.480 we're starting a tenant's union. If you have tenant, if 2:06:45.480 --> 2:06:47.680 you have issues with your landlord, or you want to 2:06:47.720 --> 2:06:50.240 talk about tenants stuff like, come here. At this time, 2:06:50.320 --> 2:06:52.880 we had an email you can send us stuff. We 2:06:52.920 --> 2:06:55.160 had a phone number that you could call. Yeah, you know, 2:06:55.200 --> 2:06:57.960 and so okay, and so parallel to this, we like, 2:06:58.360 --> 2:07:00.400 I forget if it was a church or if it 2:07:00.480 --> 2:07:05.000 was some building, some center or something, we booked a room. 2:07:05.800 --> 2:07:08.120 We were kind of lucky in that we had like 2:07:08.160 --> 2:07:11.320 local press people nice who we sort of knew. And 2:07:11.360 --> 2:07:13.480 this is another useful like if knowing a journalist can 2:07:13.520 --> 2:07:15.240 be a very useful skill, because one way to get 2:07:15.280 --> 2:07:16.840 a project off the ground, if you're trying to get 2:07:16.840 --> 2:07:19.400 to a bunch of people, is by finding a journalist 2:07:19.400 --> 2:07:21.120 who is willing to cover it. Because you know, we're 2:07:21.120 --> 2:07:23.600 we're finding founding like the first tenants union in this place, 2:07:23.720 --> 2:07:26.320 right yeah, and you know, so we had media coverage 2:07:26.320 --> 2:07:28.200 and we got kind of screwed with when this event 2:07:28.240 --> 2:07:30.200 eventually came together because there was like three feet of 2:07:30.200 --> 2:07:33.240 snow that night, but people still came, like people still 2:07:33.240 --> 2:07:35.600 came in the blizzard, Like a lot of people showed 2:07:35.640 --> 2:07:37.800 up for this. What are things that we do? We also, like, 2:07:37.920 --> 2:07:40.200 you know, we just we just started talking to people, right, 2:07:40.200 --> 2:07:42.680 We started talking to tenants about their problems. We just 2:07:42.800 --> 2:07:44.920 you know, we talked to our friends, we talked to 2:07:44.960 --> 2:07:47.400 the people they knew. We ended up talking to someone, 2:07:47.440 --> 2:07:48.640 you know, And this is the thing that just happens 2:07:48.720 --> 2:07:51.240 as it spreads by word of mouth, right, people start 2:07:51.280 --> 2:07:54.000 contacting you. We ran into a really long time tenants 2:07:54.080 --> 2:07:57.640 organizer in the city who had a bunch of incredible 2:07:57.680 --> 2:08:01.120 stories about how our corrupt politicians got jobs by portraying 2:08:01.160 --> 2:08:03.480 the old tenets organizers, right, And like I said, the 2:08:03.600 --> 2:08:05.600 thing is, you know, another thing that happens in projects 2:08:05.640 --> 2:08:07.560 is you'll you'll sometimes you'll just you just pick up 2:08:07.600 --> 2:08:10.080 someone who's you know, has been doing this since like 2:08:10.120 --> 2:08:12.640 the sixties. Yeah, and it rules because they have a 2:08:12.680 --> 2:08:14.880 wealth of experience and they want to they want to 2:08:14.880 --> 2:08:17.680 do stuff. We plotted out what we were going to 2:08:17.760 --> 2:08:18.400 do at our meeting. 2:08:18.520 --> 2:08:20.040 You know, we were going to do some political education. 2:08:20.080 --> 2:08:21.520 We were gonna have a bunch of time for people 2:08:21.560 --> 2:08:23.320 to talk about stuff, and we were gonna, you know, 2:08:23.960 --> 2:08:26.640 get get people to understand what we were doing, how 2:08:26.680 --> 2:08:29.440 they could start organizing. And then we did it, and 2:08:29.480 --> 2:08:32.720 I unfortunately don't remember much of what we talked about 2:08:32.720 --> 2:08:34.400 because I was off in another room taking care of 2:08:34.440 --> 2:08:37.040 a bunch of people's kids, which was very nice, But 2:08:37.120 --> 2:08:38.600 I don't I don't remember what we talked about. But 2:08:38.680 --> 2:08:41.520 like that, you know, but like you all of those things, right, 2:08:41.560 --> 2:08:44.400 all of those steps from the start of you get 2:08:44.440 --> 2:08:46.640 five of your friends to go eat dinner, and you 2:08:46.720 --> 2:08:49.840 talk about what you want to do through Someone makes 2:08:49.840 --> 2:08:53.320 a flyer in like Microsoft or whatever. You make it 2:08:53.360 --> 2:08:56.160 in like PowerPoint, M that's publisher. 2:08:55.720 --> 2:08:57.680 What's what's what's the one? I'm blinking, I haven't used 2:08:57.680 --> 2:09:01.000 it in so long? The one you make greeting cards in. 2:09:01.560 --> 2:09:02.640 I really thought. 2:09:05.120 --> 2:09:08.040 Program and I've forgotten it is you see this to 2:09:08.080 --> 2:09:10.120 make Christmas cards? But like, you know, okay, so we 2:09:10.400 --> 2:09:12.200 made a flyer and then we walked around and put 2:09:12.240 --> 2:09:14.560 the flyers up and we made it. We made an email, 2:09:14.720 --> 2:09:16.960 you know, we got a space together, we figured out 2:09:17.040 --> 2:09:19.240 what we wanted to do, and then we did it. 2:09:19.720 --> 2:09:22.160 And you know, and there's a bunch of organizing from there, right, 2:09:22.240 --> 2:09:24.520 But like we had started a thing, and you can 2:09:24.560 --> 2:09:27.080 do every single one of those steps. And if you 2:09:27.120 --> 2:09:29.360 can't personally do one of those steps, you can think 2:09:29.400 --> 2:09:31.960 of a person who you know, who you can bring 2:09:32.000 --> 2:09:34.680 in to help you do these things. Because organizing you 2:09:34.720 --> 2:09:37.280 already fucking know how to do it. Yeah, you just 2:09:37.320 --> 2:09:38.080 have to go out there. 2:09:37.920 --> 2:09:38.280 And do it. 2:09:38.760 --> 2:09:39.000 Yep. 2:09:39.600 --> 2:09:41.120 You can have faith. 2:09:41.640 --> 2:10:05.000 Yeah, and this has been it could happen here, go organize. 2:10:05.840 --> 2:10:09.120 Hello and welcome to AcrAB and here I'm Andrew Sage, 2:10:09.200 --> 2:10:12.320 I run Andrews on YouTube, and I'm here with. 2:10:12.400 --> 2:10:15.000 The voice of Garrison Davis. 2:10:15.040 --> 2:10:19.440 Hello, Hello, Hello, and today we're going to continue our 2:10:19.520 --> 2:10:23.360 journey through Latin American anarchisms and their histories with a 2:10:23.400 --> 2:10:24.920 sort of a four for one. 2:10:24.800 --> 2:10:27.720 Special exciting, exciting, very exciting. 2:10:28.720 --> 2:10:34.600 We talked about Peru, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Cuba sofa, 2:10:34.960 --> 2:10:37.720 as well as the Mapuche struggle in Chile and Argentina. 2:10:38.320 --> 2:10:40.280 And now was the time to explore what was going. 2:10:40.080 --> 2:10:43.200 On at the top of the South American continent, the 2:10:43.320 --> 2:10:47.320 territory of the former Grand Colombia, and that is the 2:10:47.400 --> 2:10:53.280 territories of Ecuador, Colombia, Panama, and Venezuela. But if this 2:10:53.320 --> 2:10:55.760 is the first time you're hearing about Grand Columbia, let 2:10:55.800 --> 2:11:01.760 me give a quick and a brief historical context. Grand 2:11:01.800 --> 2:11:05.000 Columbia was a short lived political entity that emerged in 2:11:05.040 --> 2:11:08.520 the early nineteenth century during Latin America's struggle for independence 2:11:08.520 --> 2:11:12.160 from Spanish colonial rule. It was formed in eighteen nineteen 2:11:12.360 --> 2:11:14.960 and it encompassed the territories, like I said, of present 2:11:15.000 --> 2:11:18.440 day Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, and Panama as well as some 2:11:18.520 --> 2:11:23.400 parts of northern Peru, western Guyana, and northwestern Brazil. The 2:11:23.400 --> 2:11:26.520 republic was envisioned by Simon Bolivar, who are dreamt of 2:11:26.600 --> 2:11:29.280 uniting the former Spanish colonies into. 2:11:28.880 --> 2:11:30.120 A powerful federation. 2:11:30.640 --> 2:11:34.120 They'll be able to resist foreign intervention and secure the independence. 2:11:35.120 --> 2:11:39.520 The Congress of Angostura declared the creation of Grand Columbia, 2:11:39.560 --> 2:11:43.320 with Bolivar as its first president. The public was a 2:11:43.360 --> 2:11:48.760 centralized state with a strong executive branch, so unsurprisingly, tension 2:11:48.880 --> 2:11:52.240 soon arose among the constituent regions due to their differences 2:11:52.280 --> 2:11:57.960 in political vision, economic interests, and regional identities. Centralized governance 2:11:58.080 --> 2:12:03.000 had alienated local elites, and debates over federalism versus centralism 2:12:03.120 --> 2:12:09.160 deepened existing divisions. Plus Bolivard's increasingly autocratic rule I mean 2:12:09.520 --> 2:12:12.760 he literally tried to push for a lifetime presidency obviously 2:12:12.800 --> 2:12:17.680 sparked internal opposition, so Grand Columbia was facing external threats 2:12:17.680 --> 2:12:23.040 from Spanish royalist forces and internal fractures. By eighteen thirty, 2:12:23.120 --> 2:12:26.520 Bolivard had to resign from the presidency, disillusioned by the 2:12:26.520 --> 2:12:29.520 failure of his vision, and the same year Grand Columbia 2:12:29.520 --> 2:12:34.280 dissolved into three separate nations. Venezuela, Ecuador, and the Republic 2:12:34.320 --> 2:12:38.600 of New Grenada, which later on split into Columbia and Panama. 2:12:38.840 --> 2:12:42.000 Unlike the other countries of South America that we've covered, 2:12:42.120 --> 2:12:46.640 these countries had far less large scale anarchist movements, but 2:12:46.680 --> 2:12:48.839 will still take a look at what little impact anarchists 2:12:48.880 --> 2:12:51.440 did make in the past two centuries in these places. 2:12:52.600 --> 2:12:54.600 This whole series, by they wouldn't be possible without the 2:12:54.600 --> 2:12:59.160 scholarship of Anhill Capelletti, whose research I drew upon heavily 2:12:59.360 --> 2:13:02.680 for this historic review. I suggest reading his book Anarchism 2:13:02.840 --> 2:13:06.240 in Latin America for further details. Let's first take a 2:13:06.240 --> 2:13:08.960 look at the history in Ecuador at the turn of 2:13:08.960 --> 2:13:12.080 the twentieth century. Ecuador was ruined from a liberal revolution 2:13:12.240 --> 2:13:14.880 that had just taken place in the country. The country 2:13:14.960 --> 2:13:19.160 was shifting as industrialization creeped in, the bourgeoisie on the rise, 2:13:19.200 --> 2:13:23.160 and feudal landowners were losing their grip on power. A 2:13:23.240 --> 2:13:26.480 new secular cultural wave was also beginning to take shape 2:13:26.840 --> 2:13:30.680 as the clerical authorities began to lose their power. The 2:13:30.720 --> 2:13:33.640 workers naturally needed a voice in this process, and they 2:13:33.680 --> 2:13:36.560 found it first with the rise of the Partiro Liberal Obrero. 2:13:36.920 --> 2:13:39.400 With the Liberal Workers' Party in nineteen oh six. 2:13:40.200 --> 2:13:42.440 Around the same time, on New Year's Eve of nineteen 2:13:42.440 --> 2:13:47.040 oh five, the confederac Delcuador was founded in Guayaquil, a 2:13:47.120 --> 2:13:50.480 city that would become a hub for worker activity. Both 2:13:50.720 --> 2:13:54.959 organizations shared a vision rooted in social reform and work empowerment. 2:13:55.680 --> 2:13:57.720 It was also around this time that the Cuban anarchist 2:13:57.800 --> 2:14:02.280 Miguel Albuquerque made a name from self in Ecuador. Originally, 2:14:02.320 --> 2:14:05.760 he had come seeking assistance with Cuba's independent struggle, but 2:14:05.880 --> 2:14:08.640 eventually found himself playing a key role in Ecuador's labor movement. 2:14:09.240 --> 2:14:12.400 He established the side that the e Host del Trabajo 2:14:12.600 --> 2:14:15.320 or the Society the Sons of Labor, and other anarchist 2:14:15.360 --> 2:14:18.880 groups would also begin forming, contributing to the struggles taking 2:14:18.880 --> 2:14:22.240 place at the time. The first recorded strikes with anarchist 2:14:22.240 --> 2:14:25.680 influence took place in nineteen nineteen, where workers in the 2:14:25.680 --> 2:14:29.960 graphic arts industry organized the demand back conditions. By nineteen 2:14:30.000 --> 2:14:34.280 twenty two, Guyaquil was the epicenter of a massive general strike, 2:14:34.720 --> 2:14:38.120 shaped in part by the anarchist Nicolists, who were obviously. 2:14:37.760 --> 2:14:38.760 Right in the thick of it. 2:14:39.240 --> 2:14:42.879 The strike was driven by dissatisfaction among the workers, particularly 2:14:42.880 --> 2:14:46.520 among the cities, urban laborers and dark workers who were 2:14:46.520 --> 2:14:51.120 facing really poor wages, long hours, and deteriorating living conditions 2:14:51.800 --> 2:14:55.480 talors all this time. The strike culminated in a violent 2:14:55.520 --> 2:14:59.320 crackdown by government forces. Also tales all this time, with 2:14:59.480 --> 2:15:02.560 estimates jet in that hundreds of workers were killed when 2:15:02.560 --> 2:15:06.360 the military suppressed the revolts. Most workers returned to their 2:15:06.400 --> 2:15:09.240 jobs after that, but the trolley workers continued their strike 2:15:09.320 --> 2:15:12.080 until the twenty first of November, when most of their 2:15:12.080 --> 2:15:12.640 demands were. 2:15:12.640 --> 2:15:17.680 Mect How much like crossover was there between like revolutionaries 2:15:17.760 --> 2:15:20.560 or like you know, workers rights people or anarchists in 2:15:20.640 --> 2:15:23.560 Cuba and places like this, because I assume there was 2:15:23.560 --> 2:15:27.640 like a lot more like growing sentiment in Cuba based 2:15:27.680 --> 2:15:30.320 on how that whole situation turned out in the next 2:15:30.360 --> 2:15:33.840 like twenty thirty years, and I feel like there would 2:15:33.880 --> 2:15:36.080 be a decent, like a decent number of cross or 2:15:36.120 --> 2:15:38.560 at least like some travel between some of these other 2:15:38.640 --> 2:15:40.480 like nearby places for. 2:15:40.480 --> 2:15:44.720 Sure, because Cuba has been gained independence much in theater 2:15:45.160 --> 2:15:47.800 than the rest of its last America neighbors, places like 2:15:47.880 --> 2:15:51.480 Mexico and Central America and Granitic Columbia and the rest 2:15:51.520 --> 2:15:53.720 of South America. They all gained the independence, and Cuba 2:15:53.840 --> 2:15:57.440 was still under the Spanish thumb and their remain under 2:15:57.440 --> 2:16:00.440 the Spanish thumb until they ended up having to struggle 2:16:00.880 --> 2:16:03.520 with the Americans as well and eventually to gain their 2:16:03.520 --> 2:16:06.480 one independence. I mean, it's all one one big pond. 2:16:06.480 --> 2:16:08.720 I like to see the Caribbean Sea. So there would 2:16:08.760 --> 2:16:12.400 have been a lot of transfer and communication between these 2:16:12.600 --> 2:16:17.680 independent Latin America and republics and Cuba, which was still 2:16:17.800 --> 2:16:18.800 at the time of colony. 2:16:19.400 --> 2:16:20.520 That was really interesting to see. 2:16:20.520 --> 2:16:23.080 What when you know, these Cuban characters sort of show 2:16:23.160 --> 2:16:26.280 up in the parts and ended I've stirring up some trouble. 2:16:26.760 --> 2:16:29.600 Totally well, and it shows just how like popular the 2:16:29.680 --> 2:16:34.199 nineteen twenties were kind of like everywhere, Like yeah, whether 2:16:34.280 --> 2:16:36.600 looking at like labor movement in the United States or 2:16:36.640 --> 2:16:38.920 like everything that you've been talking about these last few 2:16:38.959 --> 2:16:43.080 episodes about Latin American anarchism. Like always in like the 2:16:43.160 --> 2:16:45.720 nineteen twenties, there was always just like crazy shit going 2:16:45.760 --> 2:16:48.400 down consistently for sure. 2:16:48.720 --> 2:16:51.160 Unfortunately, nineteen twenties is also the time of a lot 2:16:51.200 --> 2:16:54.120 of decline for a lot of the anarchist movements because 2:16:54.200 --> 2:16:57.400 nineteen twenties follows you know, the rise of the USSR, 2:16:57.920 --> 2:17:01.160 and a lot of people ended up abandoned in anarchism 2:17:01.360 --> 2:17:04.920 and following that sort of popularity at the time. 2:17:05.320 --> 2:17:07.360 Well, and similarly, once we start getting into like the 2:17:07.360 --> 2:17:10.280 early thirties, I remember in the last few episodes that 2:17:10.320 --> 2:17:14.039 you've done, you see the resurgence of like right wing populism, 2:17:14.200 --> 2:17:15.080 like really hard. 2:17:15.440 --> 2:17:18.760 Yes, we tend to see a lot of resurgences. 2:17:18.160 --> 2:17:20.680 And like all this like revolutionary potential that's been growing 2:17:20.760 --> 2:17:23.800 the past few decades all gets like co opted or 2:17:23.879 --> 2:17:27.120 channeled into like right wing nationalism of right wing populism, 2:17:27.560 --> 2:17:30.840 and like that's a whole whole other pivot that happens, 2:17:31.400 --> 2:17:34.160 not just the more like you know, communism's statust one 2:17:34.840 --> 2:17:36.240 in like the twenties. 2:17:35.959 --> 2:17:38.600 Do see a resurgeons. We do see resurgions in the 2:17:38.600 --> 2:17:42.120 writing populism. Yes, we also see a resurgeons in the 2:17:42.200 --> 2:17:45.320 anarchist politics. You remember, the thirties was also the. 2:17:45.240 --> 2:17:48.280 Time of the Spanish Civil War, sure, and so in 2:17:48.320 --> 2:17:50.960 that time you had the anarchists picking up steam again, 2:17:51.000 --> 2:17:53.640 and you also had following that civil war, a lot 2:17:53.640 --> 2:17:56.920 of the anarchists from Spain spread out into a lot 2:17:56.959 --> 2:17:59.480 of the former colonies in Latin America. 2:18:00.040 --> 2:18:01.720 I think part of that rebirth is just because of 2:18:01.760 --> 2:18:04.400 how tied anarchism and anti fascism is. 2:18:04.600 --> 2:18:05.120 That's true. 2:18:05.360 --> 2:18:09.560 I think inadvertently, the rise of fascism they actually give 2:18:09.600 --> 2:18:12.080 birth to the rise of more anarchists as people get 2:18:12.120 --> 2:18:15.320 involved in anti fascism because of these things are so like, 2:18:15.920 --> 2:18:19.000 you know, sister movements in many ways. I think that 2:18:19.040 --> 2:18:21.720 may be a contributing factor. That's certainly how I kind 2:18:21.720 --> 2:18:24.240 of got into this sort of stuff was through anti fascism, 2:18:24.760 --> 2:18:28.080 and and I suspect that that may have also been 2:18:28.120 --> 2:18:30.199 the case even one hundred years ago. 2:18:30.879 --> 2:18:31.280 For sure. 2:18:31.360 --> 2:18:36.440 For sure, I think every story needs a good villain, unfortunately, 2:18:36.920 --> 2:18:41.160 and the story of anarchism, I mean, the fascists tend 2:18:41.240 --> 2:18:44.160 to make really, really impactful antagonists. 2:18:44.240 --> 2:18:56.640 I think. Indeed, at the same. 2:18:56.440 --> 2:18:59.200 Time we also had an Ecuador to have these strikes 2:18:59.240 --> 2:19:03.959 going on, anarchists doing you know that thing that anarchists 2:19:04.040 --> 2:19:08.599 like to do, which is a study group. Many such cases, 2:19:09.600 --> 2:19:11.920 many such cases, many such cases. But I mean it 2:19:12.000 --> 2:19:15.600 is an important aspect of struggles that's sort of consciousness racing. Yes, 2:19:15.920 --> 2:19:18.800 So these anarchists in particular in Guyaquille, they founded these 2:19:18.840 --> 2:19:22.360 Centro their Studio Socialists, which was a libertarian study group 2:19:22.840 --> 2:19:26.280 in Guayaquille, and then a decade later, in nineteen twenty 2:19:26.800 --> 2:19:30.920 the anarchists also established a Centro Gremial Sindicalista or the 2:19:31.000 --> 2:19:34.720 Synicalist Guild Center, which had a mission to an end 2:19:35.520 --> 2:19:37.920 liberate all the oppressed of the earth by bringing them 2:19:37.920 --> 2:19:40.960 into a libertarian syndicate that will replace the present system 2:19:41.320 --> 2:19:44.560 and opposing all political and religious doctrines as destructive and 2:19:44.600 --> 2:19:49.040 prejudicial to the rights and aspiration of workers endcode. As 2:19:49.080 --> 2:19:52.400 in the rest of the region, their publications played a 2:19:52.480 --> 2:19:57.080 key role in spreading the ideas again early twentieth century, 2:19:57.200 --> 2:20:02.280 late nineteenth century, the anarchists were make in papers. Yeah, 2:20:02.440 --> 2:20:04.359 use papers, newspapers, newspapers. 2:20:04.480 --> 2:20:06.560 I mean it is a bit of a blueprint for 2:20:07.000 --> 2:20:10.360 what anarchism continues to be in many ways, even with 2:20:10.480 --> 2:20:14.199 like the rise of destroyism in the in the past 2:20:14.240 --> 2:20:18.199 new past decade or so, in like popular anarchism, less newspapers, 2:20:18.320 --> 2:20:22.480 more more zines being held together by possibly one or 2:20:22.600 --> 2:20:23.480 fewer stables. 2:20:23.720 --> 2:20:25.800 And I like to think that I also continue that 2:20:25.840 --> 2:20:28.280 tradition and you and I as well by creating this 2:20:28.400 --> 2:20:30.879 kind of totally what do you and visual content? 2:20:31.120 --> 2:20:33.880 I am a zine enjoyer, I have I have any zines, 2:20:34.120 --> 2:20:36.080 but we also have to evolve with the times in 2:20:36.120 --> 2:20:39.720 some ways. Not everyone's going to be reading newspapers, not 2:20:39.800 --> 2:20:43.240 everyone's going to be reading booklets. Unfortunately, as much as 2:20:43.240 --> 2:20:46.200 I encourage people to do so, I do think there 2:20:46.240 --> 2:20:50.760 is value in attacking the information ecosystem that people more 2:20:51.120 --> 2:20:55.480 often use. That includes you know, podcasts, that includes your 2:20:55.560 --> 2:20:59.320 fantastic videos on YouTube, Thank you, thank you, and yeah, 2:20:59.360 --> 2:21:01.480 I agree for sure, for. 2:21:01.440 --> 2:21:05.959 Sure, But they didn't have things like YouTube or the 2:21:06.000 --> 2:21:09.240 Internet at the time. Instead, they had, at least in Ecuador, 2:21:09.320 --> 2:21:14.520 their newspapers like El Proletario and El Cacajuerro and Bandera Roja, 2:21:15.320 --> 2:21:18.800 which were carrying these syndicalist anarchismicalist ideas to the workers 2:21:18.840 --> 2:21:22.800 across Ecuador. They also the first truly anarchist papers that 2:21:22.879 --> 2:21:28.120 hit the country were Encion and Lose. The Axion in 2:21:28.200 --> 2:21:31.760 nineteen twenty two nineteen twenty nine respectfully, but as we 2:21:31.760 --> 2:21:35.879 were anticipating in the nineteen thirties brought some challenges. Marxist 2:21:35.920 --> 2:21:39.560 Lennis thought began to dominate leftist circles and figures like 2:21:39.640 --> 2:21:44.520 Jose Carlos Mariettegi and his general Amauta ended up wielding 2:21:44.720 --> 2:21:48.600 significant influence in the workers struggles, and by the end 2:21:48.640 --> 2:21:52.840 of the decade, anarchist groups found themselves vastly overshadowed as 2:21:52.879 --> 2:21:57.840 Marcus Lenists consolidated power through unified political parties. But despite 2:21:57.879 --> 2:22:02.840 these shifts, anarchistman Acuador was really ever entirely extinguished. It 2:22:02.879 --> 2:22:06.440 actually continues to influence workers organizations like the Ferracio and 2:22:06.520 --> 2:22:10.480 La guayas well into modern times. But now let's make 2:22:10.480 --> 2:22:13.440 our way north to Columbia as a similar story and 2:22:13.560 --> 2:22:18.000 foolds of anarchism taken route in here twentieth century. And 2:22:18.040 --> 2:22:21.560 this is actually a fun factor because both Eli's Recluse 2:22:21.720 --> 2:22:26.439 and Mikhail Bercunan visited Columbia recluses there for research purposes, 2:22:26.480 --> 2:22:29.480 and Bercunen wasn't an anarchist at the time, so they 2:22:29.520 --> 2:22:32.520 didn't directly contribute to the anarchist movement as far as 2:22:32.560 --> 2:22:33.680 we know, in the country. 2:22:34.520 --> 2:22:36.400 By the nineteen tents, anarchist. 2:22:35.959 --> 2:22:40.160 Ideas were definitely spreading, finding a home among students, artists, 2:22:40.200 --> 2:22:45.600 writers and workers. And this wasn't just idle philosophizing. They 2:22:45.640 --> 2:22:49.680 also got to work building workers societies and organizing mass 2:22:49.720 --> 2:22:53.760 actions at the May fifteenth demonstration in nineteen sixteen, which 2:22:53.879 --> 2:22:57.480 of course met with brutal police repression. From there, the 2:22:57.520 --> 2:23:00.320 movement came momentum in nineteen twenty Port Walter because in 2:23:00.360 --> 2:23:03.120 Katahina went on strike, and by the following decade, and 2:23:03.160 --> 2:23:06.160 I guess we're the forefront of workers militancy all across 2:23:06.240 --> 2:23:10.360 the Caribbean coast, which was more connected to global struggles 2:23:10.360 --> 2:23:12.760 in the rest of Columbia and was thus a hotbed 2:23:12.800 --> 2:23:15.720 of organizing and unrest. If you know the geography of Columbia, 2:23:15.760 --> 2:23:18.320 you'd know that there's a lot of jungle and mountainous 2:23:18.360 --> 2:23:20.880 region near the middle of the country. It's that the 2:23:20.959 --> 2:23:23.320 coast where you tend to have more of the activity 2:23:23.840 --> 2:23:26.560 and connection with the neighboring countries in the Caribbean Sea. 2:23:27.040 --> 2:23:29.440 Fun of fact, there's actually a lot of people in 2:23:29.520 --> 2:23:32.320 the English speaking Caribbean aren't aware of the fact that 2:23:32.360 --> 2:23:35.320 there are people in the Spanish speaking Caribbean who consider, 2:23:35.720 --> 2:23:39.280 you know, coastal Colombia and Coastal Venezuela to be part 2:23:39.600 --> 2:23:42.840 of the Caribbean. But as like the sort of niche 2:23:42.879 --> 2:23:47.440 discourse you get an r slash ass Caribbean. The few 2:23:47.480 --> 2:23:51.959 Anarchistablu present in Colombia were part of nearly every major uprising, 2:23:52.200 --> 2:23:55.520 including the Baranquila Strike of nineteen ten, the labor wave 2:23:55.920 --> 2:23:59.320 that swept Cattahina, Barankuilia and Santimurri year nineteen eighteen, the 2:23:59.360 --> 2:24:02.200 first strike against the notoriously bloody United Fruit Company in 2:24:02.240 --> 2:24:06.320 nineteen eighteen, the hero Dot Railroad strike and the Artisans 2:24:06.320 --> 2:24:09.960 and Labor strike in Bogota nineteen nineteen. The oil strikes 2:24:10.000 --> 2:24:13.800 in Baron Kabirmeha during the nineteen twenties, including one against 2:24:13.800 --> 2:24:17.040 the Tropical Oil Company in nineteen twenty seven which cost 2:24:17.160 --> 2:24:20.040 twelve hundred workers their jobs and painted the targets on 2:24:20.080 --> 2:24:23.800 the backs of the organizers because how dare you mess 2:24:23.840 --> 2:24:27.720 with oil? And then finally there was the famous Santa 2:24:27.760 --> 2:24:31.800 Maria Banana strike of nineteen twenty eight, where workers demanded 2:24:31.840 --> 2:24:35.600 fair wages and better treatment, and the government responded at 2:24:35.600 --> 2:24:38.880 the behest of the United Fruit Company by claiming hundreds 2:24:38.920 --> 2:24:42.720 of lives after the massacre. The anarchist movement in Columbia 2:24:42.920 --> 2:24:45.920 was heavily repressed, and because of how small it was, 2:24:46.000 --> 2:24:48.760 it didn't quite pick back up. As historian Max that 2:24:48.840 --> 2:24:52.960 Lao noted, publications like Organization in Santa Marta and Via 2:24:53.000 --> 2:24:57.280 Libre and Baranquilla disappeared at the late nineteen twenties. This 2:24:57.440 --> 2:25:00.240 crackdown on anarchists, coupled with the rise in Floyd of 2:25:00.280 --> 2:25:04.640 Bolshevik led unions, shifted the landscape, and by the nineteen 2:25:04.680 --> 2:25:10.240 thirties anarchist organizing was all but silenced in Columbia. But 2:25:10.280 --> 2:25:12.640 it's a part of Columbia that we're missing. She At 2:25:12.640 --> 2:25:16.320 one point Panama was considered part of the country, so 2:25:16.360 --> 2:25:18.920 there must been stuff happening on that little sliver of land, right, 2:25:19.400 --> 2:25:23.400 He'd be surprised if we rewind to the mid nineteenth century. 2:25:23.640 --> 2:25:26.680 Between eighteen fifteen eighteen fifty five, Panama saw the construction 2:25:26.879 --> 2:25:30.480 of a trans Isthmus railroad, and this massive project was 2:25:30.520 --> 2:25:34.200 followed by two phases of canal construction, the first by 2:25:34.200 --> 2:25:37.080 the French between eighteen eighteen and eighteen ninety five and 2:25:37.120 --> 2:25:40.120 the second by the US from nineteen oh forty nineteen fourteen. 2:25:40.480 --> 2:25:43.560 These projects brought tens of thousands of workers from Europe, 2:25:43.800 --> 2:25:47.240 Asia and Caribbean, effectually turned in Panama into a melting 2:25:47.280 --> 2:25:50.120 part of laborers who bought their skills, their culture and 2:25:50.160 --> 2:25:54.640 their ideas. Beijian workers, for example, that is people from Barberos. 2:25:54.879 --> 2:25:57.439 If I recall correctly, there was a time in Barbeos's 2:25:57.560 --> 2:26:00.960 history where there was some massive It was like a 2:26:00.959 --> 2:26:04.400 full quarter of the country's income was just coming from 2:26:04.400 --> 2:26:08.520 remittances from people who had had family members sending their 2:26:08.560 --> 2:26:12.600 money from the canal project back home. And it's not 2:26:12.720 --> 2:26:16.000 just the Cribbean there was impacted, obviously, as workers from 2:26:16.040 --> 2:26:19.959 Europe and Asia also part of this project. And it's 2:26:20.000 --> 2:26:23.160 the workers from Europe and particularly Spain that brought many 2:26:23.160 --> 2:26:26.120 of the ideas of class consciousness and anarchist cynicalism that 2:26:26.160 --> 2:26:28.440 had been bruin in that region of the world. And 2:26:28.480 --> 2:26:31.720 such ideas were of course solely needed in the horrific 2:26:31.760 --> 2:26:34.880 working conditions of death and disease that marked the Panama 2:26:34.879 --> 2:26:39.360 Canal construction project. Workers organized some successful strikes in both 2:26:39.360 --> 2:26:42.160 the French phase and the American phase of construction, both 2:26:42.160 --> 2:26:45.000 before and after Panama gain its independence from Colombia nineteen 2:26:45.000 --> 2:26:47.200 oh three. But it was just before the transition to 2:26:47.240 --> 2:26:52.000 American control over canal construction that Panama officially banned anarchists 2:26:52.040 --> 2:26:55.360 from entering the country for the anarchists that were left well. 2:26:55.400 --> 2:26:57.800 When the Americans took over the Canal, Governor of the 2:26:57.800 --> 2:27:01.039 Canal So in general, George W. Davis actively suppressed the 2:27:01.040 --> 2:27:03.760 anarchist workers that remained. In nineteen oh seven or whatever, 2:27:04.280 --> 2:27:08.039 despite that repression, two thousand Spanish workers went on strike 2:27:08.120 --> 2:27:12.000 for better wages. In nineteen twenty four, a prominently anarchist 2:27:12.000 --> 2:27:15.120 cynicalist group founded the Sindicato Heneral Destrabbaha Daughters, which was 2:27:15.120 --> 2:27:19.039 Panama's first central workers union. They grew to thousands of 2:27:19.120 --> 2:27:23.600 members and brought together a mix of ideologies anarchists and 2:27:23.680 --> 2:27:26.640 Marxists alike, even those who would later found the Communist 2:27:26.680 --> 2:27:29.560 Party and the Socialist Party of Panama in nineteen thirty. 2:27:30.120 --> 2:27:32.360 But on such a small sliver of land were so 2:27:32.400 --> 2:27:34.560 many people mixed in there, there was bound to be 2:27:34.560 --> 2:27:37.360 a vibrant mix of ideas. And not all of the 2:27:37.360 --> 2:27:40.880 anarchists in Panama were of the syndicalist flair. Believe it 2:27:41.000 --> 2:27:44.120 or not, they were actually workers within Panama who aligned 2:27:44.160 --> 2:27:48.720 themselves with Max Stuner's philosophy. They had egoists and anarchist 2:27:48.800 --> 2:27:52.240 egoism interesting in Panama. Yeah, exactly. This blew my mind 2:27:52.240 --> 2:27:54.200 as well. And they don't expect to see them in 2:27:54.240 --> 2:27:55.040 such contexts. 2:27:55.360 --> 2:27:57.680 Were they reading Sterner in Panama? 2:27:57.720 --> 2:28:00.600 I'm not sure if they were readings Toner, I'm assuming so. 2:28:00.800 --> 2:28:03.600 Because otherwise how would they have come to identify with 2:28:03.640 --> 2:28:07.800 his philosophy. But they did launch a paper called Eluniko 2:28:07.920 --> 2:28:08.720 in nineteen eleven. 2:28:09.200 --> 2:28:11.960 That's what I was wondering is if instead of like 2:28:12.040 --> 2:28:15.880 widely distributings actual books, like, was there like some like 2:28:16.080 --> 2:28:20.040 Sterner influence like newspaper that people were running. Yeah, yeah, 2:28:20.320 --> 2:28:21.520 because like that makes. 2:28:21.320 --> 2:28:24.800 Sense exactly exactly, some assuming some of the people either 2:28:24.800 --> 2:28:27.560 would have read Still abroad or they brought Still the Inn. 2:28:28.480 --> 2:28:30.760 And they were obviously inspired by it, and they were 2:28:30.760 --> 2:28:34.360 skeptical of this sort of mass movement sy Nicholas those 2:28:34.440 --> 2:28:35.160 popular at the time. 2:28:35.440 --> 2:28:36.720 Sure many people are. 2:28:37.120 --> 2:28:40.320 They were questioning its effectiveness as a strategy for anarchy. 2:28:40.800 --> 2:28:42.280 Yeah, And so they were. 2:28:42.240 --> 2:28:46.320 Focused primarily on organizing sort of smaller affiancy groups yep. 2:28:46.480 --> 2:28:47.680 And one of those groups. 2:28:47.480 --> 2:28:50.480 Ended up launching that paper, Elunico, to spread the ideas 2:28:50.959 --> 2:28:54.000 and obviously called itself an individualist publication. 2:28:54.760 --> 2:28:59.120 That's so funny, that's so emblematic of where we still 2:28:59.240 --> 2:29:03.000 are with it. Oh that's good, that's good. 2:29:03.080 --> 2:29:03.280 Yeah. 2:29:03.480 --> 2:29:06.400 I also think that this kind of diversity of thoughts 2:29:06.480 --> 2:29:09.320 and strategy is really really beautiful, and I'm glad to 2:29:09.360 --> 2:29:14.160 see it in almost unconventional and surprise enough contexts. It's 2:29:14.160 --> 2:29:16.800 why I consider myself an anarchist without adjectives, you know, 2:29:16.920 --> 2:29:19.959 I really absolutely yeah. I think we benefit greatly from 2:29:20.040 --> 2:29:23.880 conversation between these traditions and between these strategies, and so 2:29:24.520 --> 2:29:27.760 seeing that there were more than one form of anarchism 2:29:28.480 --> 2:29:31.520 in such a small context, it's really quite inspiring. 2:29:31.879 --> 2:29:33.000 Yeah, I am with you there. 2:29:33.600 --> 2:29:35.120 By the way, for those listeners who may not be 2:29:35.200 --> 2:29:37.960 familiar with the anarchist egoist tradition, I know that we're 2:29:38.120 --> 2:29:40.320 ego and egoism. 2:29:39.920 --> 2:29:44.920 Might conjure up some psychoanalytical Freudian. 2:29:45.040 --> 2:29:48.760 Yeah, it might bring some some some sort of feelings 2:29:48.800 --> 2:29:53.800 about capitalistic individualism or like extreme selfishness and that kind 2:29:53.840 --> 2:29:56.320 of thing, kind of like screw everybody except me. But 2:29:57.040 --> 2:30:00.000 it's actually a much deeper philosophical bent to anarchist egoist 2:30:00.280 --> 2:30:02.800 that I think everybody should give a chance. I actually 2:30:02.879 --> 2:30:06.560 recently read what is considered the first manifesto of anarchism, 2:30:07.040 --> 2:30:09.960 and it was written by this French anarchist named Anseel 2:30:10.040 --> 2:30:14.200 and Bella Garige, and he was actually an individualist anarchist, 2:30:14.760 --> 2:30:17.200 and you're actually in reading that end up seeing a 2:30:17.280 --> 2:30:20.560 lot of the influences that would later sort of develop 2:30:20.680 --> 2:30:25.360 further into anarchist individualism from the very beginning. You know, 2:30:25.600 --> 2:30:29.600 I highly recommend reading it. It's called Anarchy a Journal 2:30:29.720 --> 2:30:32.800 of Order. It's available on the Anarchist Library. It's a 2:30:32.840 --> 2:30:36.720 surprisingly contemporary piece in my opinion, and it was translated 2:30:36.840 --> 2:30:40.720 by Sean Wilbow's another anarchist scholar who I'm really inspired 2:30:40.720 --> 2:30:43.800 by lately, and it really gets into some of the 2:30:43.920 --> 2:30:46.760 ideas that I think we've forgotten in terms of what 2:30:47.080 --> 2:30:52.040 it takes to achieve the complete liberation of all people. 2:30:52.640 --> 2:30:55.320 So that's Anarchy a Journal of Order. 2:30:55.720 --> 2:30:58.520 Yeah, Anarchy a Journal of Order. He ended up not 2:30:59.560 --> 2:31:02.840 published in more than two issues due to low readership. 2:31:03.040 --> 2:31:06.000 But that's what happens, I think when any such cases, 2:31:06.280 --> 2:31:08.080 many such cases, many such cases. 2:31:08.560 --> 2:31:08.760 Yeah. 2:31:08.760 --> 2:31:10.440 I will pull that up on the anarchas Library and 2:31:10.520 --> 2:31:11.520 give that a read myself. 2:31:12.959 --> 2:31:15.240 Yeah, it happens when you're ahead of the times in 2:31:15.320 --> 2:31:18.200 a sense, and he actually ends up becoming at least 2:31:18.240 --> 2:31:21.160 partially relevant to the next episode I'm going to do 2:31:21.240 --> 2:31:24.879 on the Latin America Anarchism series, because he ends up 2:31:24.879 --> 2:31:27.120 making his way to Latin America at one point in 2:31:27.200 --> 2:31:27.600 his life. 2:31:28.160 --> 2:31:31.680 In fact, he dies in Latin America, but we will 2:31:31.720 --> 2:31:33.080 get to that in time. 2:31:43.080 --> 2:31:47.519 Finally returned to Venezuela as the late nineteenth century refugees 2:31:47.600 --> 2:31:51.760 from the Field Paris Commune arrived in Caracas, bringing with 2:31:51.879 --> 2:31:55.119 them the radical spirit of the International working Men's Association. 2:31:55.840 --> 2:31:59.920 From a few of these immigrants, small anarchist cells emerged, 2:32:00.480 --> 2:32:03.360 but they were stifled by the brutal dictatorship of Juan 2:32:03.520 --> 2:32:06.560 Vincente Gomez from eighteen ninety nine to nineteen thirty five. 2:32:07.320 --> 2:32:08.360 So few in number. 2:32:08.480 --> 2:32:12.320 The anarchist immigrant efforts to form mutual societies, organized strikes, 2:32:12.360 --> 2:32:16.160 and spread propaganda gained them a notoriety that put a 2:32:16.320 --> 2:32:19.880 massive bullseye on them. For Gomez's persecution, he had a 2:32:19.920 --> 2:32:23.920 midster oppression. A few sparks of anarchism did survive in 2:32:24.000 --> 2:32:27.920 the cultural fabric. Writers like Migueli Guardo Parlo portrayed anarchists 2:32:28.040 --> 2:32:33.320 as spiritual revolutionaries, lacking them to saints sounds familiar, does 2:32:33.440 --> 2:32:38.640 sound very familiar, Yes, if you know, back in the 2:32:38.720 --> 2:32:43.120 days of Saint andrew'sm There you Go. But his novel 2:32:43.360 --> 2:32:47.560 Toto and Pueblo described anarchists as apostles of justice, which 2:32:47.640 --> 2:32:51.000 is really fire title, I must say, as they carried 2:32:51.120 --> 2:32:53.480 the flame of liberty into the streets. 2:32:53.879 --> 2:32:55.080 But it wasn't all pros. 2:32:55.240 --> 2:32:58.720 The early twentieth century also saw a spike in industrial strikes. 2:32:58.959 --> 2:33:02.279 In nineteen eighteen, for example, a pivotal strike involving transit 2:33:02.400 --> 2:33:06.680 workers included at least one known Italian anarchist named Vincenzo Kusati. 2:33:07.200 --> 2:33:10.520 Although defeated, the strike left a mark in the country's consciousness. 2:33:11.040 --> 2:33:14.000 Inspired by such as Strive for Freedom. Workers united through 2:33:14.080 --> 2:33:17.560 various mutual aid societies which they were disguised as religious skills, 2:33:18.280 --> 2:33:23.880 the anarchist influence quietly spread among bakers, bricklayers, and oil workers. Truly, 2:33:23.920 --> 2:33:25.800 it was the oil boom of the nineteen twenties that 2:33:25.959 --> 2:33:29.440 reshieed Venice Whelan society, and of course continues to affect 2:33:29.480 --> 2:33:32.960 it today. While anarchistiniclist maintained underground networks in the grown 2:33:33.000 --> 2:33:36.520 oil sector, state and corporate power proved to be too 2:33:36.879 --> 2:33:39.600 much By the mid twentieth century, after the fall of 2:33:39.640 --> 2:33:43.240 Gomez's regime, the rise of political parties like Acxio Democratica 2:33:43.600 --> 2:33:46.280 cooperted many of the workers who might have otherwise embraced 2:33:46.280 --> 2:33:51.080 anarchist syndicalism and anarchist ideals became increasingly marginalized, eclipsed by 2:33:51.280 --> 2:33:55.200 party politics and state repression between nineteen thirty six to 2:33:55.280 --> 2:33:58.160 nineteen forty five. In fact, anarchist repression also gained a 2:33:58.280 --> 2:34:01.880 constitutional footing in the four of the Lara Law, which 2:34:02.000 --> 2:34:05.240 band strikes, associations meeting through a permission from the state, 2:34:05.320 --> 2:34:09.720 political propaganda, and basically all the usual datatorial stuff. After 2:34:09.760 --> 2:34:12.200 the Spanish Civil War and the rise of Franco more 2:34:12.240 --> 2:34:14.279 Spanish anarchist immigrants came to Venezuela. 2:34:14.320 --> 2:34:15.680 You see, I said they would be relevant. 2:34:15.920 --> 2:34:21.480 Yes, yes, but they didn't end up impacting Venezuela so 2:34:21.680 --> 2:34:25.480 much As immigrants, they ended up creating a mostly self 2:34:25.560 --> 2:34:30.480 contained scene, apparently through the founding of the Federacion Obrerariqunal 2:34:30.720 --> 2:34:33.880 Venezuelana in nineteen fifty eight, which was affiliated to the 2:34:33.959 --> 2:34:38.520 International Workers Association, But as I said, did make much 2:34:38.560 --> 2:34:41.400 of a splash in the port of Venezuelan population, they 2:34:41.480 --> 2:34:45.520 mostly affected other Spanish immigrants, so anarchist n neover developed 2:34:45.560 --> 2:34:49.640 into an explicitly mass movement in Venezuela, but elements of 2:34:49.720 --> 2:34:52.640 it did persist, and the unield in pursuit of freedom 2:34:53.120 --> 2:34:56.560 were still felt even in the harshest of conditions. So 2:34:56.640 --> 2:34:59.640 looking today at the countries that composed the former Grand Columbia, 2:35:00.080 --> 2:35:03.880 I would argue that the spark of anarchism still hasn't died. 2:35:04.560 --> 2:35:08.560 On Ecuador, uprisings continue to challenge extractive economies and demand 2:35:08.680 --> 2:35:12.360 autonomous control over renditionous territories, and some anarchist collectives are 2:35:12.400 --> 2:35:16.240 active in solidarity, providing logistical support during protests and pushing 2:35:16.320 --> 2:35:20.080 horizontal forms of organizing in the broader social struggle. After 2:35:20.120 --> 2:35:23.080 the twenty twenty one national strike in Columbia, some anarchist 2:35:23.120 --> 2:35:27.359 practices have begun to infuse movements against police brutality, privatization, 2:35:27.520 --> 2:35:30.720 and austerity measures. Mutual aid networks have all same emerged 2:35:30.760 --> 2:35:33.879 inspired by anarchist practice to support the community's hit hardest 2:35:34.120 --> 2:35:38.920 by economic crises. In Panama, anarchism exists on the fringes, 2:35:39.640 --> 2:35:42.800 but it has the potential to provide inspiration to those 2:35:42.920 --> 2:35:46.760 who are actively confronting the liberal policies, advocating for workers' 2:35:46.800 --> 2:35:50.959 rights and engaging in anti corporate actions. Finally, in Venezuela, 2:35:51.440 --> 2:35:54.680 economic collapse and authoritarianism of created space for anarchist ideals 2:35:54.720 --> 2:35:59.119 to spread through grassroots initiatives, mutual aid and self organized 2:35:59.120 --> 2:36:01.959 community groups have stepped in where the state has failed. 2:36:03.040 --> 2:36:08.959 Across these countries, an ideas still have potency. And really 2:36:09.040 --> 2:36:12.240 my hope is at these places continue to explore the 2:36:12.640 --> 2:36:17.920 creativity and solidarity that are necessary for liberation, that they 2:36:18.360 --> 2:36:21.720 continue to struggle and they go further still. You know, 2:36:21.920 --> 2:36:26.640 Viva I labored that or power to all the people. Peace, 2:36:48.320 --> 2:36:51.480 Hello and welcome, take it up. And here I'm Andrew Sage. 2:36:51.760 --> 2:36:53.760 I'm also Androwism on YouTube. 2:36:54.080 --> 2:36:57.760 And I'm here once again with Garrison Davis. Happy to 2:36:57.840 --> 2:36:59.320 be here, happy. 2:36:59.080 --> 2:37:01.840 To have here, and we're going to continue our journey 2:37:01.920 --> 2:37:06.800 through Latin American anarchisms and their histories. We've already discussed Peru, Chile, 2:37:07.080 --> 2:37:12.240 Argentina and Brazil, Paraguay, Cuba, Douapuce Struggle, Ecuador, Columbia, Panama, 2:37:12.560 --> 2:37:15.720 and Venezuela. And so there are just a few territories 2:37:15.800 --> 2:37:18.960 left that are considered Latin America, So just before we 2:37:19.040 --> 2:37:23.400 get to Mexico and Uruguay and possibly even Quebec, I 2:37:23.480 --> 2:37:26.040 wanted to round up all the anarchist histories in the 2:37:26.160 --> 2:37:26.920 smaller states. 2:37:28.080 --> 2:37:32.600 You're not wrong, but it still is funny, yeah, Quebec. 2:37:32.800 --> 2:37:37.879 I mean, honestly, you could say the same for like Haiti, Guadeloupe, Martinique. 2:37:38.720 --> 2:37:41.560 Yeah yeah, I mean there's even a lot of anarchists 2:37:41.560 --> 2:37:46.000 in Montreal today as a as a booming anarchist movement, 2:37:46.240 --> 2:37:48.519 But it still is a little funny. 2:37:48.840 --> 2:37:49.280 Right, Yeah. 2:37:49.760 --> 2:37:49.960 Yeah. 2:37:50.560 --> 2:37:54.560 I actually wanted to include explorations of Haiti and in Guadelupe, 2:37:54.600 --> 2:37:59.880 Martinique in this episode, since it's you know, fairly small 2:38:00.000 --> 2:38:03.040 anarchist movements there. But I mean, I suppose I could 2:38:03.120 --> 2:38:08.640 just summarize it one time, which is that Martinique had 2:38:08.680 --> 2:38:11.039 a section of the International at one point in eighteen 2:38:11.080 --> 2:38:13.879 ninety five. There was also a branch of the International 2:38:14.200 --> 2:38:17.200 in eighteen sixty six on the island of Guadeloup, and 2:38:17.760 --> 2:38:20.240 it's very difficult to establish whether there were any anarchist 2:38:20.280 --> 2:38:24.800 groups in Heiti. Ever, from my research there there was 2:38:25.160 --> 2:38:28.440 an appearance of socialism more broadly as part of the 2:38:29.000 --> 2:38:32.240 struggle against domination and taking place in the country. But 2:38:33.320 --> 2:38:36.680 the dictato ships of Haiti have made those kinds of 2:38:36.760 --> 2:38:40.959 movements very difficult to spring out and thrive. 2:38:41.400 --> 2:38:42.600 Yeah, I can see that. 2:38:43.480 --> 2:38:46.600 But today we're going to be focusing on the anarchist 2:38:46.680 --> 2:38:49.160 histories and the rest of the smaller states of Central 2:38:49.200 --> 2:38:51.320 America and the Caribbean. So we'll be covering the sparks 2:38:51.360 --> 2:38:56.320 of anarchism in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvor, Guatemala, 2:38:56.560 --> 2:39:00.000 Dimerican Republic, and Puerto Rico. And as with previous episode, 2:39:00.040 --> 2:39:03.480 zosis is all possible thanks to health, capitaleties. Exhaustive work 2:39:03.840 --> 2:39:07.680 titled Anarchism in Latin America, Bleming said, the scene first 2:39:07.760 --> 2:39:11.800 and foremost across the lush rainforests and turquoise seas of 2:39:11.840 --> 2:39:15.680 Central America. Historically, there were several indigenous peoples that have 2:39:15.800 --> 2:39:18.840 called at home, and that home was violated in the 2:39:18.879 --> 2:39:23.600 early sixteenth century as Spanish conquistadors carved bloody paths through 2:39:23.600 --> 2:39:26.520 the region, replacing the ones fiber and pre colonial societies 2:39:26.560 --> 2:39:29.920 with the feuder like arrangements of the incomeendo system, which 2:39:30.040 --> 2:39:34.320 forced indigenous peoples into labor under Spanish landowners. The colonial 2:39:34.400 --> 2:39:37.039 eras of the rise of vast plantations for cash crops 2:39:37.120 --> 2:39:41.080 like cocoa, indigo, and later coffee Inhrition a small elite, 2:39:41.160 --> 2:39:45.360 while indigenous and after descendant populations endured brutal oppression over 2:39:45.400 --> 2:39:48.360 the centuries. Fast forward to the early nineteenth century, and 2:39:48.480 --> 2:39:52.080 the wave of independence sweeping across Latin America reached Central America. 2:39:52.800 --> 2:39:56.039 In eighteen twenty one, the region officially threw off Spanish rule, 2:39:56.080 --> 2:39:59.040 and in eighteen twenty three, Central America gained its independence 2:39:59.040 --> 2:40:02.039 from the Mexican Empire. For a fleet in moment from 2:40:02.080 --> 2:40:05.359 eighteen twenty three to eighteen thirty nine, Central America united 2:40:05.480 --> 2:40:08.720 as the Federal Republic of Central America, modeled after the 2:40:08.840 --> 2:40:14.160 US Constitution, and encompass in modern day Guatemala, Honduras, Salvador, Nicaragua, 2:40:14.280 --> 2:40:17.440 and Costa Rica. Whe By eighteen thirty eight, the cracks 2:40:17.480 --> 2:40:19.560 in the federation would become in too large to ignore. 2:40:20.200 --> 2:40:22.280 I mean, for most of its existence, the capital of 2:40:22.320 --> 2:40:25.600 the country alternated between Guatemala City and San Southador, so 2:40:25.640 --> 2:40:29.040 they couldn't even decide on that. Liberals and conservatives were 2:40:29.040 --> 2:40:33.480 also split on the economy, centralization versus decentralization, and the 2:40:33.560 --> 2:40:37.040 role of the Catholic Church, and Guatemala was kind of 2:40:37.120 --> 2:40:41.400 resented by the other states because it had such disproportionate influence. 2:40:42.240 --> 2:40:45.760 So political infighting and regional rivalries eventually caused the Union 2:40:45.879 --> 2:40:49.640 to splinter. Each state went its own way. But the 2:40:49.720 --> 2:40:51.680 collapse of the federation wasn't the end of the story, 2:40:51.760 --> 2:40:54.760 as seas of resistance would sprout across the former territory 2:40:54.840 --> 2:40:58.920 of the Republic. And among those seeds with the anarchists. 2:40:59.560 --> 2:41:02.560 Let's start from Costa Rica and head north. In nearly 2:41:02.640 --> 2:41:05.840 nineteen hundreds, in Costa Rica, you had libertarian newspapers popping 2:41:05.959 --> 2:41:08.160 up all over the place as usual. 2:41:08.600 --> 2:41:13.040 And when you say libertarian, you don't necessarily. 2:41:13.480 --> 2:41:16.800 I mean anarchists. Yes, yeah, I refuse let them appropriate 2:41:16.879 --> 2:41:22.560 that to it. Yes, so you had names like Eleora 2:41:22.680 --> 2:41:26.760 social Eldra Bajo, and Ralucha, which were aquin the struggles 2:41:26.920 --> 2:41:31.280 of local workers and the cross continental knowledge of international discourses. 2:41:31.959 --> 2:41:35.480 But even before these publications, would you believe there was 2:41:35.640 --> 2:41:38.200 enough anarchist danger to stay up the establishment? 2:41:38.520 --> 2:41:42.680 A very little anarchist danger is enough anarchy danger history 2:41:42.760 --> 2:41:44.360 of the establishment. 2:41:43.920 --> 2:41:47.680 No, But to tell you how unsettled the establishment was. 2:41:48.920 --> 2:41:51.160 So you know, we're recording this a couple of weeks 2:41:51.200 --> 2:41:52.320 before Christmas. 2:41:52.080 --> 2:41:53.880 Right, yes, this is going to come out I think 2:41:54.000 --> 2:41:55.600 right after New Year's Okay. 2:41:55.640 --> 2:41:57.640 And I don't know if you've gone to change for 2:41:57.760 --> 2:42:00.760 Christmas before. If that's the thing that you've done, I have, 2:42:00.959 --> 2:42:07.880 I okay, I have as well. And imagine eighteen ninety two, go, 2:42:08.680 --> 2:42:11.720 it's Christmas time, you going to church, You sit down 2:42:11.840 --> 2:42:13.640 to get your little you know, he's supposed to keep 2:42:13.680 --> 2:42:16.600 the sermon short and sweet, let people get home to 2:42:16.680 --> 2:42:19.800 do what they have to do. Right, But in eighteen 2:42:19.879 --> 2:42:23.000 ninety two, Bishop Field decided to use his Christmas sermon 2:42:24.040 --> 2:42:25.360 to one against anarchists. 2:42:26.640 --> 2:42:27.840 That that's pretty funny. 2:42:28.320 --> 2:42:29.959 Like imagine you're just trying to go home at each 2:42:30.000 --> 2:42:31.840 a Christmas lunch and you have to listen to this 2:42:31.959 --> 2:42:35.200 guy preach against like these are radical anarchists to come 2:42:35.280 --> 2:42:36.960 into mess of the country. 2:42:37.080 --> 2:42:40.320 They're giving out food, they're healing the sick there. 2:42:41.200 --> 2:42:43.879 I mean to be fair, the anarchists at the time 2:42:43.959 --> 2:42:47.640 were generally a threat to the to the clerical establishment. 2:42:47.400 --> 2:42:51.640 Sure, of course, as was our Lord and Savior Jesus 2:42:51.720 --> 2:42:56.199 age Christ Jesus and his affinity group of twelve traveling 2:42:56.240 --> 2:43:00.959 around the countryside stirring up all kinds of trouble, indeed 2:43:01.200 --> 2:43:05.920 indeed seeding revolt against the Roman Empire. We gotta stop them. 2:43:06.600 --> 2:43:09.280 Yeah, I mean, rush, That's the whole kind of rooms 2:43:09.320 --> 2:43:14.720 I could have get into, right there, sure is. Yeah, 2:43:14.720 --> 2:43:17.200 I mean, I mean seriously, Christianity went from being a 2:43:17.280 --> 2:43:21.040 response to the Roman Empire to be in the Roman Empire, 2:43:21.600 --> 2:43:23.840 and that is like one of the biggest down creates 2:43:23.840 --> 2:43:25.160 of the millennia. Yeah. 2:43:25.240 --> 2:43:28.440 No, it's a super successful recuperation. And that's why I 2:43:28.560 --> 2:43:32.119 do find as much as it has some problems, liberation theology, 2:43:32.640 --> 2:43:35.560 especially the version in the South, to be kind of compelling. 2:43:35.959 --> 2:43:39.680 I wouldn't consider myself a Christian necessarily, but as of 2:43:39.920 --> 2:43:43.280 like a religious sect goes, I am interested in in 2:43:43.400 --> 2:43:46.720 what liberation theology kind of does and how it tries 2:43:46.800 --> 2:43:51.000 to reradicalize forms of Christianity for sure. 2:43:51.400 --> 2:43:55.959 For sure I have some concerns about it another strands 2:43:56.040 --> 2:44:00.680 of Christianicism, same as somebody who grows Yeah. 2:44:00.840 --> 2:44:01.080 Same. 2:44:01.680 --> 2:44:03.959 But of course this is not the place to digress 2:44:04.600 --> 2:44:07.480 about that toffic as we do have quite a few 2:44:07.520 --> 2:44:08.280 countries to cover. 2:44:09.560 --> 2:44:11.680 So the cost three Ecan anarchists were not just. 2:44:11.879 --> 2:44:17.840 Being called out by the bishops, bishops, you know, they 2:44:17.879 --> 2:44:21.160 were also struggling, you know, print eight hour workday, such 2:44:21.160 --> 2:44:23.640 as with the Baker strike in nineteen oh five, and 2:44:23.680 --> 2:44:27.600 they would also demonstrate against the assassination of anarchists educator 2:44:27.640 --> 2:44:31.640 Francisco Ferrere. They were also found the Center Day Studio 2:44:31.640 --> 2:44:35.560 Associatist Criminal, which was a collective of intellectuals and workers 2:44:35.600 --> 2:44:40.080 who focused on study and expanded upon anarchism. At nineteen eleven, 2:44:40.160 --> 2:44:44.080 they would launched the journal Renovacion, which lasted an impressive 2:44:44.280 --> 2:44:48.680 seventy plus issues. They helped organize Costa Rica's first May 2:44:48.720 --> 2:44:52.280 Day celebration in nineteen thirteen and he resilate. As in 2:44:52.280 --> 2:44:56.280 the nineteen twenties, groups explicitly formed for libertarian action, but 2:44:56.400 --> 2:44:58.680 unfortunately the anarchist influence wouldn't be as impactful in the 2:44:58.720 --> 2:45:01.280 country heading into the mid twenty youth century, as the 2:45:01.320 --> 2:45:05.280 country faced two dictatorships. However, the defeat of the latter 2:45:05.480 --> 2:45:08.680 in nineteen forty nine actually ushered in the most peaceful 2:45:08.840 --> 2:45:12.840 and stable political situation in all of Latin America. I 2:45:13.000 --> 2:45:16.080 suppose that might be because the democratic government that followed 2:45:16.280 --> 2:45:20.400 didn't transgress US interests. They do have a US military 2:45:20.440 --> 2:45:24.120 base in the country after all. But let me not 2:45:24.160 --> 2:45:25.040 expeculate too much. 2:45:26.000 --> 2:45:29.119 Look who doesn't have a US military base these days? 2:45:29.240 --> 2:45:31.400 Come on, cut them some sack. 2:45:32.840 --> 2:45:38.439 That's right, that's right, Andrew. I thought you were pro internationalism, 2:45:38.800 --> 2:45:39.560 but here we go. 2:45:40.280 --> 2:45:41.520 Yeah, yeah, look at this. 2:45:41.720 --> 2:45:46.800 Look at this, this this parochio backwards regressive. You're telling 2:45:46.840 --> 2:45:49.640 me you don't want boots on the ground in your country. 2:45:51.760 --> 2:45:54.920 Globe emoji in bio version of internationalism. 2:46:08.280 --> 2:46:10.200 So moving on north to Nicaragua. 2:46:10.600 --> 2:46:13.200 The spark of labor organization began to flicker in the 2:46:13.240 --> 2:46:17.080 early nineteen hundreds, but there's little evidence of any anarchists 2:46:17.160 --> 2:46:22.480 specific influence. In nineteen eighteen, the Federalsti Nicaraguenes, or the 2:46:22.640 --> 2:46:26.800 fo N, emerged and pulled together various mutual societies from 2:46:26.800 --> 2:46:30.879 across the country, from shoemakers to bakers to tailors, from 2:46:30.959 --> 2:46:35.040 Leon to Managua. But this federation wasn't anarchists and character 2:46:35.879 --> 2:46:38.760 both conservative and liberal elites actually tried to use these 2:46:38.800 --> 2:46:41.600 workers groups with their own ends within the fo When 2:46:41.720 --> 2:46:44.560 the group of Socialista ended up emerging as a rebel 2:46:44.640 --> 2:46:48.320 force to challenge these elites and their influence in the workers' movements, 2:46:48.920 --> 2:46:52.000 but even that rebel group was a reformist in nature. 2:46:52.680 --> 2:46:57.000 Now it is possible that libertarians from Spain and Mexico 2:46:57.080 --> 2:46:59.720 played roles in the Steve Drow strikes of nineteen nineteen 2:47:00.040 --> 2:47:03.200 in Corindo, which was Nicragu's major port city, but a 2:47:03.240 --> 2:47:06.240 caste for Shure for my research, we do know that 2:47:06.280 --> 2:47:10.000 at least one influential person was perhaps inspired by anarchism, 2:47:10.560 --> 2:47:14.519 and that was Augusto Sandino, the leader of the Sandinista 2:47:14.560 --> 2:47:18.600 rebellion against the US occupation of Nicagua. Sandino worked alongside 2:47:18.600 --> 2:47:22.160 anarchists during his time in exile in Mexico. Unit's revolution 2:47:22.760 --> 2:47:25.520 and the red and black of the Sandinistas actually came 2:47:25.680 --> 2:47:29.360 from that anarchist influence. By the nineteen thirties, after the 2:47:29.480 --> 2:47:32.480 US withdrawal, the labor movement had to navigate the Soumotza 2:47:32.560 --> 2:47:35.760 family dictatorship, which was marked by the severe oppression of 2:47:35.840 --> 2:47:40.040 anything that even smelled red. Even in the face of 2:47:40.120 --> 2:47:44.480 state violence, unions and workers' groups continued to organize, laying 2:47:44.520 --> 2:47:48.200 the groundwork for future resistance, including the eventual Sandinista revolution 2:47:48.320 --> 2:47:52.320 that overthrew the Somozas. In the late seventies, some social 2:47:52.400 --> 2:47:55.400 progress was then possible in the country, but it was 2:47:55.400 --> 2:47:58.720 still marred by corruption and authoritarianism, made worse by the 2:47:58.800 --> 2:48:01.440 reelection of Daniel or Day in two thousand and six. 2:48:02.360 --> 2:48:05.120 He still holds the presidency in Nicaragua to this d 2:48:05.840 --> 2:48:08.080 managing to steave off this swell of protest against him 2:48:08.120 --> 2:48:11.760 between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty, of which anarchists, however 2:48:11.840 --> 2:48:16.200 small number did indeed take part. If weteen to Hounduras. Now, 2:48:16.640 --> 2:48:18.800 there's not too much to say about anarchists so again, 2:48:19.280 --> 2:48:23.040 but Honduras did have a vibrant label movement. In eighteen ninety, 2:48:23.200 --> 2:48:26.000 La Democracia, one of the country's first mutual laid societies, 2:48:26.000 --> 2:48:28.840 emerged with a cooperative spirit that laid the foundation for 2:48:29.120 --> 2:48:32.119 was to come. By the early twentieth century, the workers 2:48:32.160 --> 2:48:34.640 move when in Honduras had begun to heat up even more, 2:48:35.040 --> 2:48:38.400 particularly among miners and banana plantation laborers, two groups that 2:48:38.440 --> 2:48:42.000 were central to the country's economy. In March nineteen o nine, 2:48:42.440 --> 2:48:47.800 miners struck against brutal conditions and poverty wages. The response Garson, 2:48:47.879 --> 2:48:52.760 maybe you can guess bad things, violent, brutal repression and 2:48:52.800 --> 2:48:53.720 ding ding ding ding thing. 2:48:54.480 --> 2:48:57.440 Yeah, that is that is you know what I was assuming, 2:48:57.560 --> 2:48:59.160 but I didn't want to, you know, make a fool 2:48:59.200 --> 2:48:59.840 out of myself. 2:49:00.240 --> 2:49:05.160 Nineteen sixteen banana plantation workers at the Quim Food Company. 2:49:05.640 --> 2:49:08.680 What was their response, Oh, violence, murder. 2:49:09.480 --> 2:49:15.280 I assume Dinging, ding Ding four hundred strikers were four 2:49:15.360 --> 2:49:19.200 hundred strikers were arrested and imprisoned in the infamous Castillo 2:49:19.480 --> 2:49:22.560 de Moor. I didn't see any epvidence of mass deaths 2:49:22.640 --> 2:49:23.920 in this particular case. 2:49:23.800 --> 2:49:27.680 Which is honestly progressive considering the time. I don't know. 2:49:28.040 --> 2:49:31.960 Mass incarceration not really that much better. I mean, they 2:49:32.040 --> 2:49:38.400 literally got in prisoned in this castle, dungeon jail. Not 2:49:39.040 --> 2:49:42.080 something I would want to be rats, nibblermetric tools and 2:49:42.120 --> 2:49:42.600 stuff like that. 2:49:42.760 --> 2:49:43.680 You know, no, no. 2:49:44.640 --> 2:49:44.680 So. 2:49:45.000 --> 2:49:48.520 Following these early twentieth century strikes, workers gradually began to 2:49:48.600 --> 2:49:51.200 build some momentum when they fight for rights, particularly during 2:49:51.200 --> 2:49:54.400 the nineteen fifty four General Strike against the US banana companies. 2:49:55.120 --> 2:49:57.760 This strike led to significant gains, including the legal right 2:49:57.840 --> 2:50:00.440 to organize and the emergence of a more he afide 2:50:00.600 --> 2:50:05.760 labor movement. Now will anarchists involve these movements as possible, 2:50:06.440 --> 2:50:09.400 as movements do bear much of the language and hallmarks 2:50:09.440 --> 2:50:12.600 of the anarchist cynicalis thought at the time, but identify 2:50:12.680 --> 2:50:15.280 specific names as difficult, and there doesn't seem to be 2:50:15.280 --> 2:50:17.320 any evidence of specifically anarchist groups. 2:50:17.640 --> 2:50:19.240 In the early labor history of the country. 2:50:19.720 --> 2:50:22.480 As in other parts of Central America, it appears that 2:50:22.720 --> 2:50:25.680 Marxists had a bit more influence in their struggles. In 2:50:25.760 --> 2:50:28.960 response to the workers gains, the US backed military coups 2:50:28.959 --> 2:50:32.360 of roles to counter that progress. The nineteen sixty three 2:50:32.440 --> 2:50:35.760 coup against President Harmone vieda Morales usher in decades of 2:50:35.800 --> 2:50:41.080 military rule which stifled labor movements and pleasant movements, often violently. 2:50:42.080 --> 2:50:45.200 During the nineteen seventies, the Campesino or peasant land struggles 2:50:45.520 --> 2:50:48.000 intensified as the people demanded. 2:50:47.680 --> 2:50:49.520 Redistribution and reforms. 2:50:50.040 --> 2:50:53.840 They did get some reform under General Essualdo Lopez Ariano, 2:50:54.240 --> 2:50:58.480 but these reforms were limited and met with the usual repression. 2:50:58.959 --> 2:51:02.000 In transition into a young government in nineteen eighties, Honduras 2:51:02.040 --> 2:51:05.560 remained under heavy US influence, serving as a base for 2:51:05.720 --> 2:51:09.600 anti communist activities in Central America. Then new liberal policies 2:51:09.640 --> 2:51:12.480 in nineteen nineties eroded many of the hard won social 2:51:12.600 --> 2:51:17.320 and labor rights, as privatization and austerity measures deepened the 2:51:17.360 --> 2:51:20.400 inequality in the country. Two thousand and nine coup against 2:51:20.440 --> 2:51:23.560 President Manuel's u Liar marked another turning point in modern 2:51:23.680 --> 2:51:27.720 hundred resistance. Silia's progressive policies, including raised in the minimum 2:51:27.760 --> 2:51:31.800 wage and considering a Greeran reform. Imagine you're considered progressive, 2:51:31.840 --> 2:51:37.480 even considering a careering reform. But for that thought crime 2:51:37.520 --> 2:51:40.400 of considering a Greeran reform, he was alienated by the 2:51:40.440 --> 2:51:43.960 business elite and the US aligned military and thus could 2:51:44.800 --> 2:51:47.440 and this triggered, of course, a wave of militarization and 2:51:47.600 --> 2:51:51.959 repression and protests. We met with violence and human rights 2:51:52.000 --> 2:51:55.480 abuses usual in the years fallen. The coup movements like 2:51:55.560 --> 2:52:00.280 Clatters Extensia unified a broad coalition of workers, indigenous crewsanist 2:52:00.360 --> 2:52:04.720 students who were all demanding systemic change. But the essues 2:52:04.760 --> 2:52:09.680 persist Andruas continues to face crises of poverty, violence and migration, 2:52:10.760 --> 2:52:15.440 but grassroots organizing continues. The ground there is indeed fertile 2:52:15.920 --> 2:52:21.720 for an anarchist resurgence, And then we come to the Salvador. Anarchists, 2:52:21.800 --> 2:52:24.680 both local and international, played a key role in shape 2:52:24.680 --> 2:52:28.920 in the early labor movement Spanish, Mexico and Panamanian anarchisynicalists 2:52:29.000 --> 2:52:32.160 work with them ideas of collector resistance and workers autonomy. 2:52:32.720 --> 2:52:34.680 One of the earliest milestones in the country was the 2:52:34.800 --> 2:52:39.119 Union Oprera Savalorina, founded in nineteen twenty two, which united 2:52:39.200 --> 2:52:41.640 workers under the principles of mutual aid and direct action. 2:52:42.720 --> 2:52:47.600 Nineteen twenty four, the Ferracrion de Ravadoresta Salvador or FRTs 2:52:48.120 --> 2:52:52.480 emerged and was initially steeped at anarchistinicalist ideas before shifting 2:52:52.520 --> 2:52:55.840 towards Marxism in the late nineteen twenties. In the nineteen thirties, 2:52:56.160 --> 2:52:59.320 the anarchist Centro sind Cal Libretario was founded and operated 2:52:59.440 --> 2:53:03.160 in Sansa the Door. Unfortunately, for pretty much everybody in 2:53:03.200 --> 2:53:07.519 the outside of door, nineteen thirty two happened the devastating 2:53:07.680 --> 2:53:11.360 La Mantaza of nineteen thirty two. To be specific, this 2:53:11.560 --> 2:53:14.520 was a massacre that was orchestrated by the dictatorship of 2:53:14.600 --> 2:53:17.560 General Oh. I shouldn't have told you, I should have 2:53:17.600 --> 2:53:20.879 asked you what you think to La matanza means un 2:53:20.920 --> 2:53:22.400 if you've be brushed up in your Spanish. 2:53:23.080 --> 2:53:27.560 Unfortunately, no, my Spanish is actually quite famously bad. I 2:53:27.680 --> 2:53:28.840 really should work on it. 2:53:29.280 --> 2:53:33.000 I'm sure you envy and my stumbling through all these 2:53:33.040 --> 2:53:34.680 Spanish names throughout this series. 2:53:35.000 --> 2:53:37.880 See that's usually me. I'm just happy to have it 2:53:38.000 --> 2:53:40.840 be someone else, so James doesn't laugh at me for 2:53:41.320 --> 2:53:45.160 reading too many books but not practicing saying things out 2:53:45.200 --> 2:53:46.119 loud as a kid. 2:53:48.360 --> 2:53:50.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel you. I mean for me, 2:53:50.480 --> 2:53:52.680 I think one of the difficulties I have been don 2:53:52.720 --> 2:53:57.280 in Spanish all my life. Yeah, the difficulty is when 2:53:57.320 --> 2:54:00.680 you're speaking at a momentum in one language, at least 2:54:00.680 --> 2:54:03.840 in my experience, it's really difficult to switch the patterns 2:54:03.879 --> 2:54:07.000 of pronunciation to the other language. You know, the way 2:54:07.040 --> 2:54:10.720 that Spanish like reads vowels is different from how English 2:54:10.760 --> 2:54:13.720 reads vowels, so it's hard to like quickly switch in 2:54:13.760 --> 2:54:14.360 and switch out. 2:54:15.040 --> 2:54:17.760 Yeah, that's that there has always been. My struggle is 2:54:18.400 --> 2:54:23.560 reading their vowels like my vowels, and it produces some 2:54:23.680 --> 2:54:28.920 sometimes quite quite comical pronunciation, which is really really my bad. 2:54:30.000 --> 2:54:32.119 I can imagine, but yeah. 2:54:32.280 --> 2:54:36.240 The La Matanza of nineteen thirty two was a massacre 2:54:36.920 --> 2:54:42.600 orchestrated by the dictatorship of General Maximiliano Frandez Martinez that 2:54:42.800 --> 2:54:47.160 aimed to crush the peasant prison that was sparked by 2:54:47.440 --> 2:54:53.400 systemic poverty and land dispossession. Tens of thousands were slaughtered, 2:54:53.600 --> 2:54:56.400 many of them indigenous people, and the anarchist and labor 2:54:56.440 --> 2:55:00.160 movements in the country suffered immense losses as activists were 2:55:00.200 --> 2:55:03.560 either killed or forced underground. This marked the beginning of 2:55:03.760 --> 2:55:06.880 decades of military rule designed to protect the interests of 2:55:06.920 --> 2:55:10.520 the land owned in oligarchy, the fourteen families that practically 2:55:10.640 --> 2:55:15.240 owned everything in El Salvor. But despite this repression, radical 2:55:15.360 --> 2:55:19.240 organizations have persisted. The mid to lay twentieth century saw 2:55:19.240 --> 2:55:22.640 the rise of armed revolutionary groups, culminating in the Salvadorda 2:55:22.680 --> 2:55:24.959 In Civil War from nineteen eighty eight to nineteen ninety two. 2:55:25.640 --> 2:55:28.840 The war pitted the primarily Marxi Leninists and socialist factions 2:55:29.240 --> 2:55:33.320 against the US backed Selvadorra and military dictaisership. The Marxists 2:55:33.360 --> 2:55:36.200 transitioned into a political party after the nineteen ninety two 2:55:36.240 --> 2:55:39.680 peace accords, which ended the war but left many systemic 2:55:39.800 --> 2:55:44.200 inequalities unresolved. In the twenty fifth century, labour struggles have 2:55:44.280 --> 2:55:48.480 continued amid new liberal economic reforms and international financial pressures, 2:55:48.879 --> 2:55:51.240 while the left wing Fmelon won the presidents in two 2:55:51.240 --> 2:55:54.120 thosey nine and held power on until twenty nineteen. Its 2:55:54.160 --> 2:55:57.480 tenure was criticized for failing to sufficiently addressed issues plague 2:55:57.480 --> 2:56:01.480 in the country. Recent years under President I have seen 2:56:01.520 --> 2:56:05.960 the construction of a proper mass casseral police state. What 2:56:06.080 --> 2:56:09.320 we're going to struggle against, privatization and our sterity measures. 2:56:10.000 --> 2:56:12.520 By the way, the rise of Achille is just really 2:56:13.360 --> 2:56:18.440 fascinating to me, particularly from a trendardy and context, because 2:56:18.480 --> 2:56:22.360 we have a pre surveyor murder rate situation going on. 2:56:22.440 --> 2:56:25.240 Our murder rate has been rising steadily in the past 2:56:25.560 --> 2:56:28.760 two decades and there's just been in general, lot of 2:56:28.840 --> 2:56:32.360 crime is serious lately, and the response a lot I've 2:56:32.360 --> 2:56:35.200 seen a lot of Trindadians have toward the rise of 2:56:35.240 --> 2:56:38.080 a Chill and a Salvador. It's literally like, we do 2:56:38.200 --> 2:56:39.640 that too, We need to do that too, Like we 2:56:39.760 --> 2:56:43.400 need to you know, institute like a mass custual state 2:56:43.440 --> 2:56:46.760 as well. And I feel like I'm fighting a wave. 2:56:47.920 --> 2:56:51.080 I'm like talking to a war like really, it's really 2:56:51.120 --> 2:56:53.680 difficult for me, I think, to challenge that because I 2:56:53.760 --> 2:56:56.440 know some people's frustrations, but to me, my mind is 2:56:56.560 --> 2:56:58.840 just boggled at it. You know, like you really think 2:56:58.879 --> 2:57:02.680 we'll be complaining about r ouption all the time, right, 2:57:02.800 --> 2:57:06.080 Like it's very openly nepatistic and corrupt in this place, 2:57:06.680 --> 2:57:09.879 people who are like either political party that is presented 2:57:09.920 --> 2:57:13.080 to us as the options, and yet people are so 2:57:13.520 --> 2:57:15.680 think about the crime situation that they're willing to put 2:57:15.760 --> 2:57:18.440 that much power in the hands of the government to 2:57:18.480 --> 2:57:21.000 make that judgment. That's the things we know that they're 2:57:21.040 --> 2:57:24.360 innocent people in for killers prisons. You know, we know 2:57:25.120 --> 2:57:28.120 that journalists haven't locked of for criticizing the government. We 2:57:28.240 --> 2:57:32.279 know that all people are locked up without charges, without rights, 2:57:32.600 --> 2:57:36.720 without anything. And what's crazy to me is that like 2:57:37.840 --> 2:57:41.320 people are like cheering it on until it's them, until 2:57:41.360 --> 2:57:44.359 you happen to be unlucky enough to have a tattoo. 2:57:44.920 --> 2:57:46.959 I mean, yeah, as long as it's someone else, then 2:57:47.040 --> 2:57:47.840 it's not them. 2:57:48.320 --> 2:57:51.400 Yeah, exactly, It's like it's fine as long as somebody else. 2:57:51.440 --> 2:57:54.119 But like, let's say you have a tattoo or I mean, 2:57:54.520 --> 2:57:57.039 the thing is the police. I'm sure it's the case 2:57:57.040 --> 2:57:59.240 in VA as well, because the police are themselves a 2:57:59.320 --> 2:58:02.000 gang anywhere in the world, but the police insure not 2:58:02.160 --> 2:58:06.040 literally connected in some cases with gangs. In fact, there's 2:58:06.080 --> 2:58:09.199 some gang members who end up like joining the police 2:58:09.240 --> 2:58:11.560 force later on in their lives, and so to just 2:58:12.080 --> 2:58:14.320 give that kind of powerity that you know, let's say 2:58:14.360 --> 2:58:18.720 you criticize an officer, you say something that they were like, 2:58:18.800 --> 2:58:21.080 and then before you know it, you're the one behind 2:58:21.160 --> 2:58:24.400 boss as well. I understand the frustration, I don't understand 2:58:24.440 --> 2:58:28.800 the response, and it remains to be seeing how Biguli's 2:58:28.840 --> 2:58:31.360 policies continue to play out in the country. I feel 2:58:31.400 --> 2:58:35.560 like it's a disaster reason to happen, and so in 2:58:35.640 --> 2:58:37.080 many ways it is already a disaster. 2:58:37.240 --> 2:58:38.959 But you know, there are people. 2:58:38.800 --> 2:58:40.959 Point to oh, look, I'll see if things have got 2:58:41.120 --> 2:58:44.280 no But I don't know how long that will last, 2:58:45.000 --> 2:58:49.160 especially when the families that are responsible for so much 2:58:49.240 --> 2:58:53.040 of the disparity in the country are still in their 2:58:53.080 --> 2:58:53.800 position of power. 2:58:54.560 --> 2:58:55.240 But I digress. 2:58:56.360 --> 2:58:59.520 The spirit of mutually direct action and anti thoughtun resistance 2:59:00.040 --> 2:59:02.680 still as a potential to persist in the country of 2:59:02.760 --> 2:59:15.040 El Salbaro. At last, we've reached Guatemala. In nineteen twenty sixth, 2:59:15.080 --> 2:59:19.800 the publication Orientascian Cindical started circulating in Guatemala calling for 2:59:19.840 --> 2:59:22.600 the kind of direct grassroots union action that went around 2:59:22.800 --> 2:59:26.880 or even opposed fiscal parties as obstacles to liberation. Meanwhile, 2:59:26.920 --> 2:59:29.560 the Marxists in the country had a different vision. They 2:59:29.640 --> 2:59:33.120 pushed for the formation of the Federacion Juianaloberradia Guatemala and 2:59:33.280 --> 2:59:37.240 with that the launch of Fangaradia Proletaria, a communist led 2:59:37.240 --> 2:59:40.080 people that aim to rally the working class behind Marxist ideas. 2:59:40.760 --> 2:59:44.200 At the same time, Spanish and Peruvian workers alongside Guatemala 2:59:44.200 --> 2:59:47.080 and students and workers came together to form the Committee 2:59:47.160 --> 2:59:51.360 Peroxio and Cindical, which was the space where anarchistyndicalism truly 2:59:51.440 --> 2:59:54.560 found its voice in Guatemala. Gres you can probably guess 2:59:54.640 --> 2:59:56.280 the powers that be weren't going to let this kind 2:59:56.280 --> 3:00:00.000 of artical action stand. In nineteen thirty a military Dutay 3:00:00.200 --> 3:00:04.640 ships swept into the country, ending the Committee, effectively silence 3:00:04.640 --> 3:00:07.320 and anarchystynicalism in Quatemala and set in the stage for 3:00:07.480 --> 3:00:10.640 years of political oppression as the state worked tirelessly to 3:00:10.640 --> 3:00:13.960 suppress any form of workers self organization, often with the 3:00:14.040 --> 3:00:19.120 back end of the one and only yous say us 3:00:19.280 --> 3:00:24.600 say us say. The mid twentieth century marked a period 3:00:24.640 --> 3:00:29.240 of extreme violence against workers movements, passive movements, and leftists movements, 3:00:29.400 --> 3:00:33.000 especially after the nineteen fifty four CIA backed coup. Despite 3:00:33.040 --> 3:00:36.880 these setbacks, workers and political movements really never stopped fighting. 3:00:37.360 --> 3:00:41.600 In the nineteen sixties and seventies, Kriller movements gainablementum inspired 3:00:41.600 --> 3:00:45.800 by Marxist and anti imperialist ideologies, and although these movements 3:00:45.840 --> 3:00:48.320 were frequently crushed with state violence in the Fourth massacres 3:00:48.360 --> 3:00:51.119 and disappearances, they persisted until the end of the Civil 3:00:51.160 --> 3:00:56.000 War nineteen ninety six. Still social inequality and economic exploitation persisted. 3:00:56.520 --> 3:00:59.640 They moved on, especially in this sweatshop industry, have continued 3:00:59.640 --> 3:01:03.040 to fight for workers' rights. Guatemalo today is still fighting 3:01:03.160 --> 3:01:05.760 to breathe free. Its people are still fighting against the 3:01:05.800 --> 3:01:09.240 continued dominance of new liberal economic policies, fighting against crop 3:01:09.320 --> 3:01:13.199 political elites, and most importantly, fighting for autonomy French, indigenous 3:01:13.280 --> 3:01:15.560 and working peoples. And that it's time to hit the 3:01:15.640 --> 3:01:19.120 islands on Our first stop is the Dominican Republic. To 3:01:19.240 --> 3:01:22.240 the efforts of Spanish immigrant workers, the ideas of mutual 3:01:22.320 --> 3:01:25.840 aid and syndicalism found very fertile ground, particularly in the 3:01:25.920 --> 3:01:28.280 mid eighteen eighties, where we see the emergence of the 3:01:28.360 --> 3:01:33.760 first mutualist associations, such as La Alianza Chipayania in eighteen 3:01:33.800 --> 3:01:37.160 eighty four and Society dad at tsinale Ecost de Pueblo 3:01:37.280 --> 3:01:40.400 in eighteen ninety. The riverald Workers Strike in eighteen ninety six, 3:01:40.480 --> 3:01:43.360 struck in protest against their conditions but working on the 3:01:43.400 --> 3:01:46.880 Puerto Plata Santiago line, among the first direct actions in 3:01:46.879 --> 3:01:49.039 the American Republic outside of its historical. 3:01:48.879 --> 3:01:50.800 Maroonages and slaver of votes. 3:01:51.120 --> 3:01:54.080 In eighteen ninety seven, the first labor union was formed, 3:01:54.640 --> 3:01:58.160 the Union de Panaderos the son to Domingo. Not long after, 3:01:58.680 --> 3:02:03.160 strikes erupted across the country. Bakers, cobblers, brick layers all 3:02:03.320 --> 3:02:07.000 marched in protest, often the heart of Cologne Park, fighting 3:02:07.080 --> 3:02:10.680 for better working conditions and respect from their employers. Fast 3:02:10.720 --> 3:02:12.880 forward a bit, and in nineteen twenty we saw the 3:02:12.959 --> 3:02:17.279 first Premier Congress to de Ravajadores Dominicanos convene in Santramingo, 3:02:17.800 --> 3:02:21.080 where the Confederacion dominican and del Trabajo was born. The 3:02:21.200 --> 3:02:24.600 demands were basic but crucial, things like the eight hour workday, 3:02:25.000 --> 3:02:28.000 the right to strike, a salary schedule, and profit sharing. 3:02:28.400 --> 3:02:31.680 But it wasn't just about improving their daily lives. They 3:02:31.720 --> 3:02:35.520 also sought to fight foreign intervention. Specifically, they called to 3:02:35.560 --> 3:02:38.440 the end to the North American occupation, which had had 3:02:38.480 --> 3:02:42.080 a heavy presence in the region for decades. The nineteen 3:02:42.080 --> 3:02:45.360 twenties also the rise of another powerful union, the Federacion 3:02:45.440 --> 3:02:48.720 Locale de Travajo de Santra Remingo, which was founded by 3:02:48.840 --> 3:02:52.600 thirty one different unions. Despite the strength of these movements, 3:02:52.760 --> 3:02:55.400 the Dominican Republic remained under the heavy influence of foreign 3:02:55.440 --> 3:02:58.960 powers and corrupt local elites. In nineteen forty six, the 3:02:59.040 --> 3:03:01.960 Dominican Republics so a major strike in the sugar plantations 3:03:01.959 --> 3:03:04.880 of La Romana and San Pedro de Macoris, and this 3:03:05.080 --> 3:03:07.560 time the influence of Spanish anarchists who had fled the 3:03:07.560 --> 3:03:11.480 Spanish Civil War was undeniable. Today, the anarchist presence in 3:03:11.520 --> 3:03:15.160 the American Republic is not pronounced, but the conditions are 3:03:15.320 --> 3:03:19.720 as with the others ripe for such a transformation. Finally, 3:03:19.760 --> 3:03:22.960 let's jump across to Puerto Rico for a final historical review. 3:03:23.560 --> 3:03:25.840 Puerto Rico, as we know, was a Spanish colony until 3:03:25.840 --> 3:03:27.800 eighteen ninety eight, but after that it fell under the 3:03:27.879 --> 3:03:31.240 control of the United States. Anarchism in Puerto Rico didn't 3:03:31.240 --> 3:03:33.120 have quite the same impact as it did in there 3:03:33.160 --> 3:03:36.200 By Cuba, let us men, it wasn't there pushing back 3:03:36.240 --> 3:03:39.840 against the powers of b Anarchist militans, particularly from Spain, 3:03:40.360 --> 3:03:42.320 made their way to Puerto Rico in the eighteen eighties, 3:03:42.840 --> 3:03:45.840 bringing with them the fire of direct action and commitment 3:03:45.879 --> 3:03:48.560 to the idea that workers should control their own lives. 3:03:49.120 --> 3:03:51.160 In the liberal period between eighteen sixty eight and eighteen 3:03:51.160 --> 3:03:54.680 seventy three, the first artist and based organizations started popping up. 3:03:55.240 --> 3:03:59.000 These were mutual aid societies and cooperatives. They weren't exactly 3:03:59.320 --> 3:04:03.040 radical orientation, a far cry from the anarchist of prizings 3:04:03.040 --> 3:04:05.760 happening elsewhere in that America, but there were spaces where 3:04:05.800 --> 3:04:09.600 workers could find solidarity and support. In eighteen ninety four, 3:04:10.000 --> 3:04:13.800 things began to change. A monetary crisis hit, followed by 3:04:13.840 --> 3:04:18.160 a devaluation that ten prices kyrocketing, and the population decided 3:04:18.200 --> 3:04:20.720 to push back. This triggered a wave of strikes and 3:04:20.840 --> 3:04:22.480 mass protests, and that's where we start to see the 3:04:22.520 --> 3:04:26.320 direct influence of anarchists. Were not for sure that Spanish anarchists, 3:04:26.320 --> 3:04:28.280 who had settled in Puerto Rico were active in these 3:04:28.320 --> 3:04:32.560 early struggles, push in fremancipation and denounced in exploitation. In 3:04:32.600 --> 3:04:35.879 eighteen ninety eight, when Puerto Rico was already under US control, 3:04:36.520 --> 3:04:40.800 anarchists and socialists came together to form the Federacrialricnale the Rostravadories, 3:04:41.360 --> 3:04:44.760 a group clearly inspired with the Spanish Federascriol and Richiernalespanola. 3:04:45.280 --> 3:04:48.800 Their program was a simple yet radical one, abolished the 3:04:48.840 --> 3:04:52.879 exploitation of workers and build a society without borders or masters. 3:04:53.560 --> 3:04:56.440 But as with all movements, there were contradictions and splits. 3:04:56.920 --> 3:04:59.720 In eighteen ninety nine, a major rift occurred within the Federation, 3:05:00.000 --> 3:05:01.840 and it became clear that some of its leaders were 3:05:01.879 --> 3:05:05.000 more willing than others to accept the support of political parties, 3:05:05.480 --> 3:05:08.959 something the anarchists traditionally rejected. This caused those that were 3:05:09.160 --> 3:05:13.200 true to syndicalist autonomy to form the Federastrian Libre, a 3:05:13.280 --> 3:05:17.000 group that split from that original federation and stuck to 3:05:17.040 --> 3:05:21.000 the principles of the First International. Yet, just a few 3:05:21.080 --> 3:05:23.640 years later, in nineteen oh one, this same group ended 3:05:23.720 --> 3:05:27.480 up affiliated with the conservative American Federation of Labor, which 3:05:27.600 --> 3:05:32.600 is a very strange Bedfellow considering their earlier anarchists commitments. 3:05:33.640 --> 3:05:36.320 But the anarchists didn't feed away just after these splits. 3:05:36.480 --> 3:05:39.240 They didn't achieve the dawn and position in Puerto Rico's 3:05:39.280 --> 3:05:41.680 worker movement, but they kept pushing forward anyway. And one 3:05:41.720 --> 3:05:43.400 of the ways they did this was through the press, 3:05:43.760 --> 3:05:45.920 as they spread ideas, shared literature. 3:05:45.640 --> 3:05:46.560 And build networks. 3:05:47.280 --> 3:05:51.760 Baz Sumana, a publication based on Kagwas, was one such example. 3:05:52.520 --> 3:05:54.840 The anergi anarchists in Perto Rico was translated into action, 3:05:55.040 --> 3:05:58.280 especially in the labor front where they were there and 3:05:58.440 --> 3:06:02.800 part of strikes and eons and ongoing battles. So as 3:06:02.840 --> 3:06:04.960 we look to Puerto Rico today, whether with the fight 3:06:05.040 --> 3:06:08.879 for sovereignty, for labor rights, against cunalism, or whatever else, 3:06:09.840 --> 3:06:12.720 we can remember the potential of anarchism on the island. 3:06:13.240 --> 3:06:16.520 There are Puerto Ricans and history who understood that freedom 3:06:16.600 --> 3:06:20.039 wasn't solely about political independence, but about deliberation of all 3:06:20.120 --> 3:06:23.880 people from all forms of exploitation. So I just take 3:06:23.879 --> 3:06:26.000 a step back and look at the broader picture of 3:06:26.160 --> 3:06:30.440 labor and anarchist struggle across the region. Do the anarchist 3:06:30.480 --> 3:06:34.400 movements were not as vibrant as elsewhere, whether indeed dormant 3:06:34.520 --> 3:06:37.040 or dead in many cases, we still see a very 3:06:37.080 --> 3:06:39.960 powerful thread of resistance and a very flutile ground for 3:06:40.000 --> 3:06:43.400 anarchist development, which our comrades in these places can hopefully 3:06:43.600 --> 3:06:44.240 flourish within. 3:06:45.560 --> 3:06:47.600 That's all for me today. You can find me a 3:06:47.640 --> 3:06:50.880 YouTube at Androism and patroon that seem true. This is 3:06:51.200 --> 3:06:55.160 It could Happen Here? All power to all the people. Peace. 3:06:58.920 --> 3:07:02.080 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:07:02.160 --> 3:07:04.039 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:07:04.680 --> 3:07:07.160 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:07:07.360 --> 3:07:10.400 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:07:10.480 --> 3:07:14.039 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:07:14.160 --> 3:07:17.680 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 3:07:17.760 --> 3:07:20.039 now find sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly 3:07:20.120 --> 3:07:22.360 in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.