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Speaker 1: Colzon Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: This is Michael Phillips, an historian in Texas. I'm the

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Speaker 3: author of the history of racism in Dallas called Bite Metropolis,

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Speaker 3: an upcoming book on the history of eugenics in Texas

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Speaker 3: called The Purifying Knife.

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Speaker 4: And I'm Stephen Monticelli, an investigative reporter and columnist in

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Speaker 4: Texas who covers extremism and fire right movements, as well

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Speaker 4: as dark money and other fun things.

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Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito author

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Speaker 3: the Dobbs Versus Jackson Women's Health Organization decision. Alito's majority

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Speaker 3: of opinion reversed the landmark nineteen seventy three Roe v.

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Speaker 3: Wade outcome that established a woman's constitutional right to an

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Speaker 3: abortion to the first trimester, permitted states to impose limits

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Speaker 3: to protect the health of the mother in the second trimester,

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Speaker 3: and gave states leeway to ban abortions and the final trimester.

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Speaker 3: The Road decision, based in a Texas case, had survived

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Speaker 3: with modification for almost half century. In Dobbs, however, the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court denied that women held a constitutional right to

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Speaker 3: an abortion and gave the individual states the power to

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Speaker 3: determine whether such procedures were legal at any point during

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Speaker 3: a pregnancy. In the Dobbs case, Alito seemed to suggest

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Speaker 3: that the concept of abortion rights was a modern aberration.

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Speaker 3: MSNBC pundit Lawrence O'Donnell zeroed in on one key phrase

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Speaker 3: in Alito's opinion.

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Speaker 2: Samuel Alito says that a right to abortion services is

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Speaker 2: not quote deeply rooted in this nation's history.

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Speaker 4: Whatever one might think about Alito as a jurist, he

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Speaker 4: fails as an historian. In fact, for much of American history,

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Speaker 4: abortion was quite accepted. When men first formed the American

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Speaker 4: Medical Association in the eighteen forties, they had to wage

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Speaker 4: a campaign against abortion, in part to eliminate competition for

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Speaker 4: patients from midwives, who were the primary provider of such services.

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Speaker 4: The nineteenth century, anti abortion laws focused on the health

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Speaker 4: and safety of women primarily, and not the life of

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Speaker 4: the fetus as the modern laws tend to do, and

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Speaker 4: the anti abortion campaign at the time itself had to

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Speaker 4: do not just with limiting women's autonomy, but also with

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Speaker 4: racism and anxiety over immigration.

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Speaker 3: Through it all, Texas became a central battlefront in the

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Speaker 3: culture wars surrounding women's bodily autonomy. One group of Texans

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Speaker 3: won women the right to an abortion in the Road case,

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Speaker 3: while another worked almost immediately to reverse row and to

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Speaker 3: criminalized choice. Meanwhile, a Dallas district attorney, Henry Wade, played

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Speaker 3: an under appreciated and under explored role in the battle.

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Speaker 4: The often dower Puritans who established the British colony of

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Speaker 4: Massachusetts in the sixteen twenties may have created an oppressive theocracy,

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Speaker 4: but they proved surprisingly indifferent when it came to women's

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Speaker 4: decisions when and if to have children. Based on British

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Speaker 4: common law, the colonies in New England allowed abortion up

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Speaker 4: to the quickening, which is when women can first feel

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Speaker 4: fetal movement. In that era, it was the first clear

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Speaker 4: sign of impregnation. This moment varies widely for women, but

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Speaker 4: it generally happens during the fourth or fifth month of pregnancy.

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Speaker 3: Women typically endured seven to eight live births, and the

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Speaker 3: experience was often grueling and life threatening, particularly as they

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Speaker 3: got older. Seeking relief and physical safety, women frequently terminated

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Speaker 3: their pregnancy in a variety of ways from Native Americans,

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Speaker 3: as white women learned which local herbs were considered a

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Speaker 3: bord of facins. White and black women also sought advice

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Speaker 3: from midwives. It provided wisdom on how to relieve mensual cramps,

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Speaker 3: Yet pregnant and breastfeed midwives provided abortion services as well.

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Speaker 3: Women attempted to end pregnancy with varying degrees of success

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Speaker 3: by consuming penny royalty or savn juniper, or a combination

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Speaker 3: of iron and quinine. They took hot baths or rode

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Speaker 3: horses bareback in order to cause a miscarriage.

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Speaker 4: Before the eighteen forties, such actions provoked little or no controversy.

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Speaker 4: Even the Catholic Church adhered to the quickening standard until

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Speaker 4: after the American Civil War. By the eighteen forties, abortion

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Speaker 4: had become so deeply rooted in American history and culture

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Speaker 4: that abortionists advertise their services, albeit in euphemistic but widely

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Speaker 4: understood terms. These advertisements were carried in popular newspapers such

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Speaker 4: as The New York Sun and the Boston Daily Time.

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Speaker 4: Abortionists told patients they could provide quote French cures for

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Speaker 4: what was referred to as quote menstrual blockage.

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Speaker 3: A dramanic shift happened after the eighteen forty seven founding

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Speaker 3: of the American Medical Association. Established by men, the organization

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Speaker 3: began lobbing states to ban abortions in an attempt to

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Speaker 3: discredit midwives, who represented major competition for female patients. Medical

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Speaker 3: journalists began to dismiss midwives and male doctors who provided

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Speaker 3: abortion services as dangerous, ill informed quacks. AMA members were

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Speaker 3: still unaware that germs existed, and they didn't clean their

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Speaker 3: hands or equipment when examining wounds or during surgeries, thus

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Speaker 3: causing many of their patients to die of sepsis. So

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Speaker 3: called regular doctors often used dangerous treatments such as bleeding

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Speaker 3: to treat illnesses. Yet, in spite of their high body count,

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Speaker 3: AMA members persuaded major press outlets such as The New

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Speaker 3: York Times the sensationally cover cases in which women died

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Speaker 3: during abortions performed by midwives. This created momentum for the

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Speaker 3: enactment by eighteen eighty of laws banning and criminalizing abortion.

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Speaker 3: Every single state except Kentucky were stake courts that already

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Speaker 3: rendered such procedures illegal.

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Speaker 4: The drive against abortion wasn't all that it seemed. Abortion

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Speaker 4: opponents were worried that the wrong women were. In other words,

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Speaker 4: white wealthy women were choosing to limit how many children

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Speaker 4: they had. The fertility rate for white women fell by

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Speaker 4: almost fifty five percent between eighteen fifty and nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 4: Horatio Storer, the leading anti abortion crusader at the time,

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Speaker 4: railed against non infanto mania among upper class white women,

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Speaker 4: a trend that the sociologist Edward A. Ross would call

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Speaker 4: quote race suicide. President Theodore Roosevelt later argued that white

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Speaker 4: women had a patriotic duty to bear at least four children.

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Speaker 4: Logically fit Anglo Saxons quote have only one child or

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Speaker 4: no child at all, while the Irish, Italians and Jews

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Speaker 4: have quote eight or nine or ten. Theodore Roosevelt warned,

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Speaker 4: it is simply a question of the multiplication table. He wrote,

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Speaker 4: the future of American civilization, Roosevelt believed depended on reproductive math.

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Speaker 4: White women could not be allowed to become voluntary non

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Speaker 4: combatants in a racial demographic war.

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Speaker 3: In the eighteen eighties, Texas was still seen by much

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Speaker 3: of the country as an unsophisticated frontier, but was home

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Speaker 3: to a highly influential doctor with a national following, Ferdinand

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Speaker 3: Eugene Daniel, who became editor of the Texas Medical Journal,

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Speaker 3: a eugenesis with a national audience. The surgeonets served in

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Speaker 3: the Confederate Army and argued that masturbation and homosexuality were

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Speaker 3: dangerous indications that individual came from a family line that

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Speaker 3: not fully evolved or was biologed logically regressing fully evolved

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Speaker 3: individuals he believed had less of a sex drive and

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Speaker 3: kept their minds on intellectual pursuits. Daniel argued that before

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Speaker 3: the Civil War, Americans had endangered their future by bringing

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Speaker 3: Africans into the country as slaves, and were compounding the

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Speaker 3: error by allowing what he called quote the dregs of

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Speaker 3: Europe Jews, Greeks, Italians, and others to immigrate to the

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Speaker 3: United States. The only way to say America's biological future,

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Speaker 3: he said, was by cash strating not just gay men

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Speaker 3: and masturbators who would cause the evolution of white America

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Speaker 3: to swing in reverse, but also to sterilized as sexually promiscuous,

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Speaker 3: the mentally ill, those with disabilities, and the criminal element

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 4: Daniel could be surprisingly supportive of abortion rights under limited circumstances, however,

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Speaker 4: if it ensured that well off white women had long

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Speaker 4: and fruitful careers as mothers. Daniel wrote approvingly of how

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Speaker 4: electric currents might be used to end ectopic pregnancies, cases

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Speaker 4: in which fertilize eggs attached to the Filippian tubes or

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Speaker 4: elsewhere outside the uterus, which can be dangerous and can

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Speaker 4: kill or leave a woman infertile. Both outcomes undesirable for

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Speaker 4: a eugenicist like Daniel, who cared for fit white patients.

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Speaker 3: In eighteen eighty seven issue, he published an account of

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Speaker 3: a debate among doctors held by the Medical Society and Terrell, Texas.

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Speaker 3: The topic was whether saving the life of a mother

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Speaker 3: was the only acceptable reason to allow an abortion. Some

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Speaker 3: doctors in the debate argued that abortion was morally acceptable

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Speaker 3: for quote, an intelligent and chaste woman who had gotten

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Speaker 3: pregnant after being deceived by a scoundrel into participating in

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Speaker 3: pre marital.

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Speaker 4: Sects because of sexual double standards. Several of these Texas

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Speaker 4: doctors argued that such women would no longer be considered

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Speaker 4: a socially acceptable mate by a high status man, and

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Speaker 4: thus should be denied the chance to become an quote,

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Speaker 4: ornament and useful member of society. Regardless of Texas's abortion law,

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Speaker 4: a surprising number of doctors in the state performed abortions,

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Speaker 4: not only to save women's lives, but to save the

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Speaker 4: reputations and to relieve them of the financial and physical

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Speaker 4: hardships of unwanted pregnancies.

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Speaker 3: In eighteen ninety nine, Ueca, Texas Mary Wheat, discovered she

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Speaker 3: was pregnant and sought an abortion. The procedure had been

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Speaker 3: illegal in Texas since eighteen fifty six, a year before

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Speaker 3: the recently formed American Medical Association began a campaign to

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Speaker 3: prohibit abortion in every state. By eighteen eighty, the AMA

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Speaker 3: had achieved its goal. In spite of the ubiquitous spans,

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Speaker 3: abortions were frequent and there were a large number of

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Speaker 3: doctors willing to provide the prohibited medical procedure. Wheat, called

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Speaker 3: Maddie by friends and family, found such a physician, doctor S. M. Jenkins.

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Speaker 4: Texas law at the time had not eliminated abortion, but

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Speaker 4: instead had driven the practice under Because of this, doctors

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Speaker 4: received little or no training in how to perform such

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Speaker 4: procedures that proved fatal for Maddy Wheat, Doctor Jenkins performed

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Speaker 4: the abortion in the home of women identified by the

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Speaker 4: local press only as Missus Smith, and he made a mistake.

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Speaker 4: She got increasingly and dangerously ill, and then after ten

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Speaker 4: days of this ordeal, Jenkins rushed Wheat into Waco's City Hospital.

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Speaker 4: He claimed she was suffering a severe attack of dysentery.

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Speaker 4: She then died, and an autopsy revealed a bowel perforation

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Speaker 4: which had been left during the botched abortion. Law enforcement

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Speaker 4: arrested Jenkins on November first for the operation, charging him

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Speaker 4: with murder.

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Speaker 3: Jenkins's trial did not go as prosecutor's planned. Jenkins testified

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Speaker 3: that the fetus Wheat was caring had died and that

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Speaker 3: the abortion was an attempt to save her life. According

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Speaker 3: to a reporter for the Houston Post, Jenkinson's attorney were

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Speaker 3: pleased with how the trial was unfolding. Quote, the defense

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Speaker 3: seemed to be well satisfied with their showings so far.

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Speaker 3: Public opinion had changed considerably in favor of the defendant.

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Speaker 3: The newspaper told its readers, But then the trial came

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Speaker 3: to an abrupt and shocking end.

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Speaker 4: While the court was in session, Hugh Wheat, the brother

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Speaker 4: of the deceased woman, stood aimed at gun at doctor Jenkins, and.

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Speaker 5: Pulled the trigger.

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Speaker 4: A bullet fatally struck the physician just underneath the ribs.

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Speaker 4: As the assassin fled, Jenkins's brother in law, John Halligan,

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Speaker 4: shot back, but missed that a murder trial ended in

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Speaker 4: another homicide is not surprising in a place as violent

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Speaker 4: as nineteenth century Texas, But because of the modern image

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Speaker 4: of Texas as reliably and even harshly anti abortion, it

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Speaker 4: might be startling that the public one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 4: five years ago actually sympathized with a doctor who faced

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Speaker 4: prison after his patient died as a result of an

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Speaker 4: incompetently performed abortion.

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Speaker 3: Abortion politics were far more unpredictable in the American past

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Speaker 3: than Samuel Lito had asserted. In seven twenty three, anti

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Speaker 3: vice activist Anthony Comstock of Connecticut successfully lobbied the Congress

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Speaker 3: the past legislation known as the Compstack Act that made

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Speaker 3: distribution to the US mail or common carriers of birth

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Speaker 3: control devices or any information about birth control or how

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Speaker 3: to obtain an abortion a federal crime.

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Speaker 4: Social reformers noted that bearing multi children often shorted women's

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Speaker 4: lives and drove their families into poverty, and they battled

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Speaker 4: for women to gain control over the reproductive choices. One

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Speaker 4: such reformer was Margaret Sanger of New York, the daughter

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Speaker 4: of a radical Irish father and mother who died at

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Speaker 4: fifty after burying eleven children. Sanger coined the term birth

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Speaker 4: control in nineteen fifteen, and, just before World War One,

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Speaker 4: launched a movement that promoted contraception as sexual and political

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Speaker 4: reform aimed to reduce human misery. She had to flee

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Speaker 4: the country in nineteen fourteen because her publication The Woman

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Speaker 4: Rebel intentionally defied the Comstock Law and promoted the distribution

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Speaker 4: of information about contraception through the United States Postal Service.

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Speaker 4: When she returned to this country, she was an international

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Speaker 4: celebrity for women's rights and free speech, and she opened

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Speaker 4: a family planning clinic, which faced continual police harassment. Lack

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Speaker 4: of access to birth control, Sager complained, led to abortion,

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Speaker 4: as she has said in a nineteen fifty seven interview

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Speaker 4: with reporter Mike Wallace on CBS News.

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Speaker 6: Why did you do it?

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Speaker 7: I realized that you had an intellectual conviction that birth

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Speaker 7: control was a boon demand kind. But I'm sure that

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Speaker 7: others have that conviction too, and so what I'd like

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Speaker 7: to know is this, what events, what emotions in your

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Speaker 7: life made Margaret Sanger a crusader for birth control.

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Speaker 8: Well, mister Wallace, it's hard to say that any one

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Speaker 8: thing has made won't do this or that. I think

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Speaker 8: from the very beginning, I came of a large family.

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Speaker 8: My mother died young children. That made the impression on

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Speaker 8: me as a child. As a trained nurse went among

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Speaker 8: the people, I saw women who asked to have some

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Speaker 8: means whereby they would have to have another pregnancy too

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Speaker 8: early after the last child, the last abortion, which many

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Speaker 8: of them had. So there's a number of things that

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Speaker 8: are one after the other that really made you feel

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Speaker 8: that you had to do something.

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Speaker 4: It may surprise many today that the woman who founded

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Speaker 4: the American Birth Control League, which later evolved into Planned

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Speaker 4: Parenthood of America, actually opposed abortion and advocated easing access

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Speaker 4: to birth control as a means of making advantage. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: around the time of Sanger's interview with Mike Wallace, Texas

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Speaker 4: doctors became friendlier to abortion rights. But before we get

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Speaker 4: into that quick eyebreak.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty three, the Houston Chronicles survey doctors about

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Speaker 3: their views of abortion. About eighteen thousand abortions took place

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Speaker 3: in Texas every year, the newspaper reported in that quote,

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Speaker 3: an increasing number of doctors believed abortion should be legal

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Speaker 3: for reasons beyond saving the life of the mother. Texas

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Speaker 3: women fought fiercely for the right to control their bodies.

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Speaker 3: In North Texas, the Women's Alliance, the first Unitarian Universalist

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Speaker 3: church in Dallas, launched an education campaign about the need

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Speaker 3: for the state to reform its abortion laws. Meanwhile, doctor

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Speaker 3: U Savage of Fort Worth, the president of State Association

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Speaker 3: of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, lobbied the Texas Medical Association to

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Speaker 3: draft a statement supporting abortion rights. The state's abortion ban was,

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Speaker 3: he said, in conflict with actual practice of reputable hospitals

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Speaker 3: across the state. Doctors regularly provided abortion care when a

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Speaker 3: woman's life was in danger, and they interpreted that mandate broadly.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty nine, members of the Texas Medical Association

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Speaker 3: who were surveyed approved liberalization of abortion. Laws by an

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Speaker 3: overwhelming vote of four thousand, four hundred and thirty five

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Speaker 3: to five hundred and thirty six.

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Speaker 4: The Texas legislature even considered loosening abortion restrictions in its

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixty seven and nineteen sixty eight sessions, although neither

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Speaker 4: effort was successful in spite of support from conservative state

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Speaker 4: Senator George park House and a growing number of churches

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Speaker 4: and physicians. In the end, activists carried the day. Two

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Speaker 4: Texas lawyers, Linda Confie and Sarah Weddington, took up the

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Speaker 4: cause of Norma McCovey, who had sought an abortion in Dallas.

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Speaker 4: Almost a century earlier, Texas doctors had argued whether to

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Speaker 4: allow an abortion for unmarried upper class women so they

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Speaker 4: could contribute to the gene pool by bearing children with

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Speaker 4: comparably privileged men. Those Victorian doctors did not have someone

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Speaker 4: like McCovey in mind.

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Speaker 3: Largely neglected by our parents, but Covey had suffered abuse

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Speaker 3: at the hands of men throughout her life and was

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Speaker 3: a frequent drug user. After giving up one child for

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Speaker 3: adoption and having another taken by her mother, in nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty nine, she was pregnant for a third time while

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Speaker 3: she was living in Dallas. McCovey tried to end the

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Speaker 3: pregnancy herself with a home remedy of peanuts and cast roil,

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Speaker 3: but she only succeeded in making herself nauseous. She's eventually

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Speaker 3: told about an illegal clinic, but when she got there,

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Speaker 3: Dallas police had already shut down the clinic. Quote nobody

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Speaker 3: was there, she said later it was an old dentist office.

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Speaker 3: Then I saw dried blood everywhere and smelled this awful smell.

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Speaker 3: She believed that she falsely claimed that she had been

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Speaker 3: gang raped by African American men. A doctor might be

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Speaker 3: willing to provide her an abortion. She was unsuccessful, but

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Speaker 3: a doctor referred her to an attorney who connected her

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Speaker 3: with a pair of lawyers who were seeking to challenge

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Speaker 3: the Texas anti abortion law. Attorneys Linda Coffee and Sarah

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Speaker 3: Weddington filed a class action suit against Dallas District Attorney

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Speaker 3: Henry Wade, claiming that the Texas anti abortion law, which

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Speaker 3: allowed the procedure only to save the patient's life, violated

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Speaker 3: the constitutional right of privacy.

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Speaker 4: Before his name would forever be linked with the history

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Speaker 4: of American abortion law. By the time of Norman mcovy's suit.

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Speaker 4: Henry Wade enjoyed a reputation as one of the most

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Speaker 4: successful district attorneys in the country. His reputation in Dallas

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Speaker 4: was built on ruthlessness, racism, and the advantages a brutally

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Speaker 4: unfair criminal justice system in Texas gave him. Wade would

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Speaker 4: claim a ninety percent conviction rate, but in many of

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Speaker 4: those cases he faced off against poor defendants that were bullied,

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Speaker 4: lied to, and coerced into confessions by Dallas police officers.

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Speaker 4: In one infamous murder case, Tommy Lee Walker, an African

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Speaker 4: American man with several alibi witnesses, was threatened with a

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Speaker 4: beating if he didn't sign a confession. He was misled

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Speaker 4: about the consequences of signing an admission of guilt and later

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Speaker 4: died in the electric chair. In nineteen fifty six.

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Speaker 3: Wade reportedly joked quote, any prosecutor could convict a guilty man.

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Speaker 3: That takes a real pro to convict an innocent man.

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Speaker 3: Emmanuel Wade provided to prosecutors after the Civil Rights Era,

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Speaker 3: provided tips for excluding African Americans and Mexican Americans from juries.

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Speaker 3: Wade left the District Attorney's office in January nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 3: and as of twenty eight, nineteen criminal defendants convicted by

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Speaker 3: his team had been exonerated through DNA evidence.

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Speaker 4: During his time as district attorney, Wade directed police to

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Speaker 4: raid gay bars and vigorously prosecuted violators of the state

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Speaker 4: sodomy laws that banned oral and anal sex, including a

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Speaker 4: straight couple arrested in Dallas in nineteen sixty one. While

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Speaker 4: Wade may have racked up wins against badly outmatched targets

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Speaker 4: before Row, he bungled his most famous case, murder covered

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Speaker 4: by Dallas radio reporter Gary Delon of KLi s Am and.

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Speaker 9: Garry comes Lee osrog he accused assassin Cat the riff

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Speaker 9: us leading the way, Then a strutted right Delice officers

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Speaker 9: shot running up, shot has run out, Andrew osrags leel

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Speaker 9: osra has sat him A shot has long out here,

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Speaker 9: strugglers be.

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Speaker 10: In place, show.

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Speaker 11: Has rung up and.

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Speaker 9: Leean osrag mee osrad has les been shot.

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Speaker 3: On November twenty fourth, nineteen sixty three, Dallas nightclub owner

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Speaker 3: Jack Ruby had murdered Lee Harvey Oswald, he accused assassin

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Speaker 3: of John Kennedy, as he was being escorted by police,

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Speaker 3: in front of the nationwide TV audience. The case should

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Speaker 3: have been open and shut. Wade's staff won a conviction

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Speaker 3: in March nineteen sixty four, but the verdict and death

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Speaker 3: sentence Ruby received was unanimously overturned by the Texas Court

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Speaker 3: Criminal Appeals on October fifth, nineteen sixty six, in part

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Speaker 3: because the judge should have granted a change of venue,

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Speaker 3: but also because Wade's team had introduced improperly obtained evidence

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Speaker 3: at the trial. Ruby was awaiting a new Trialway died

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Speaker 3: of pneumonia cancer in nineteen sixty seven.

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Speaker 4: The Wade team apparently did similarly sloppy work in the

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Speaker 4: Roe v.

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Speaker 5: Wade case.

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Speaker 4: In abortion cases, Wade's office had generally prosecuted amateur abortion

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Speaker 4: providers who had killed or badly injured their clients, and

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Speaker 4: the Dallas DA's office in the City Police had not

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Speaker 4: focused on enforcement of abortion laws on the books. Legal

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Speaker 4: experts would later characterize the Dallas DA's office filings and

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Speaker 4: the Row case as perfunctory, especially compared to the exhaustive

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Speaker 4: constitutional research done by Weddington and Coffee. This Assistant General j.

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Speaker 4: Floyd won no allies on the Supreme Court when he

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Speaker 4: opened his argument with comments considered sexist and condescending even

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Speaker 4: by the standards of nineteen seventy three. When the Supreme

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Speaker 4: Court rendered its verdict, Wade reportedly never bothered to read

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Speaker 4: it best.

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Speaker 12: Kate Justice, I pleased the court.

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Speaker 8: It's an old Joe, But what a argument man argues

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Speaker 8: against two beautiful ladies like this.

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Speaker 5: They're going to have.

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Speaker 9: The last word.

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Speaker 3: No one laughed, and a Texas legal team would win

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Speaker 3: a landmark legal victory. On January twenty second, nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 3: news anchor Walter Cronkite made the earthshaking Roe v. Wade

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Speaker 3: decision the lead story on the CBS Evening News Good Evening.

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Speaker 12: In a landmark ruling, the Supreme Court the day legalized abortions.

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Speaker 12: The majority in cases from Texas and Georgia said that

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Speaker 12: the decision to end the pregnancy during the first three

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Speaker 12: months belongs to the woman and her doctor, not the government.

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Speaker 12: Thus the anti abortion laws of forty six states were

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Speaker 12: rendered unconstitutional.

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Speaker 6: Stay with us through this ad break to learn more.

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Speaker 4: Took a while for the country and particularly Texans, to

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Speaker 4: absorb the news about the Roe decision. Supreme Court ruling

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Speaker 4: was announced on the same day as another big news

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Speaker 4: story that over the next few days absorbed attention south

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Speaker 4: of the Red River. Cronkite was on the air when

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Speaker 4: the press secretary of a former giant of Texas politics

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Speaker 4: called the newsman to tell him a former president had died.

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Speaker 12: Thank you very much, Tom, I'm on the air right

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Speaker 12: at the moment. Can you hold the line just a second.

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Speaker 12: I'm talking to Tom Johnston, a press secretary for Lyndon Johnson,

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Speaker 12: who was reported that the thirty sixth President of the

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Speaker 12: United States died this afternoon in an ambulance plane on

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Speaker 12: the way to San Antonio, where he was taken after

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Speaker 12: being stricken at his rant, which the LWJ Ranch in

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Speaker 12: Johnson City, Texas.

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Speaker 3: News of the road decision had to compete not only

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Speaker 3: with coverage of Johnson's death in the planning for his funeral,

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Speaker 3: but also the recently negotiated American withdrawal from the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 3: No one could have guessed how deeply this one decision

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Speaker 3: would reshape the makeup of the Democratic and Republican parties

407
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Speaker 3: over the next half century. Americans divided almost evenly. Soon

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Speaker 3: after the Supreme Court announcement, a Gallop survey indicated that

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Speaker 3: forty six percent supported a woman's right to choose and

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Speaker 3: forty five percent opposed granted women access to the abortion care.

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Speaker 3: In the days following the Road decision, reactions were often surprising.

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Speaker 3: Wa chris Well, the arch conservative pastor of First Baptist

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Speaker 3: Church in Dallas, the largest Southern Baptist congregation in the nation,

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Speaker 3: initially applauded the court. Perhaps the pastor, who had repeatedly

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Speaker 3: warned thirteen years earlier that the election of a Catholic

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Speaker 3: John Kennedy as president would mark the end of religious liberty,

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Speaker 3: was relieved that the Supreme Court was not controlled by

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Speaker 3: the Vatican. By the late nineteen seventies, Chriswell would emerge

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Speaker 3: as a national leader of the religious right and would

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Speaker 3: help make opposition to abortion gay rights a centerpiece or

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Speaker 3: Republican politics. Shortly after Rowe, however, he struck a very

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Speaker 3: different tune. Quote I've always felt that it was only

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Speaker 3: after the child was born and I had a life

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Speaker 3: separate from its mother that became an individual person, Chriswell said,

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Speaker 3: And it always therefore seemed to me that's what's best

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Speaker 3: for the mother and the future should be allowed.

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Speaker 4: Opposition to the legalization of abortion quickly formed and would

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Speaker 4: build to homicidal intensity over the decades. In nineteen seventy, three,

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Speaker 4: years before the Row decision, when abortion was still illegal

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Speaker 4: in Texas, Michael Schwartz, a student at the conservative private

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Speaker 4: University of Dallas in the suburb of Irving, staged what

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Speaker 4: might have been the first anti abortion protest in America

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Speaker 4: and history. He held a sit in at the Planned

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Speaker 4: Parenthood headquarters, not far from downtown Dallas because the organization

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00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: provided assistance to pregnant women planning on traveling to states

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Speaker 4: where abortion was already legal, not unlike situations that Texans

437
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 4: faced today.

438
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: The movement soon came to be dominated by right wing Republicans,

439
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 3: and the occupations of clinics soon became violent. Abortion opponents

440
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 3: pouring noxious chemicals into clinic ventilation systems, anti choice extremists

441
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: that fire to clinics, bombed them, and even murdered doctors

442
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 3: and clinic staff providing abortion care. One set of Texans

443
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 3: may have won the decisive battle for abortion rights in

444
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: the past half century, but a different set of Texans

445
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 3: would lead the charge to reverse those gains.

446
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 4: Strangely enough, the backlash to abortion rights included norma McCovey.

447
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 4: One day, Flip Benhim, a leader of the extremist anti

448
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 4: abortion group Operation Rescue, approached her while she was autographing

449
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 4: copies of a book she had authored called I Am Row.

450
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 4: They became friends, and she later claimed that she changed

451
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 4: her mind about abortion when she saw photos of fetuses

452
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 4: at different stages of pregnancy. After being baptized in a

453
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 4: swimming pool by evangelicals in nineteen ninety five, an event

454
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 4: filmed and widely disseminated in the anti abortion movement, McCovey

455
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 4: became a popular fixture at anti abortion protests. At first,

456
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: McCovey embraced Evangelical Protestantism, and by nineteen ninety eight she

457
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 4: converted to Catholicism, but towards the end of her life,

458
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 4: while being interviewed for a twenty twenty documentary called Aka

459
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 4: Jane Rowe, McCovey confessed that her religious conversion had been

460
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 4: a scam and that she had been financially benefiting from

461
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 4: her transition into a star of the evangelical anti abortion circuit.

462
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 6: Did they use you as a trophy? Of course, I

463
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 6: was the big fish. Do you think they would say

464
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 6: they used them?

465
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 8: Well, I think it was a macheble fine.

466
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 11: You know.

467
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 6: I checked their money and they put me out in

468
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 6: front of the.

469
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 11: Cameras and tell me what site.

470
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 6: That's what I'm saying.

471
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 3: McCovey died in twenty seventeen at her home in Katie, Texas.

472
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: By that point, anti abortion politics had become orthodoxy in

473
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 3: the Republican Party. In two thousand and eight, the state

474
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: passed the misleadingly named Women's Right to No Act, which

475
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: mandated the physicians share misinformation about alleged fetal pain during

476
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: abortion with women who sought the procedure. In twenty thirteen,

477
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: a state Senator Wendy Davis a Fort Worth stage of

478
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 3: dramatic thirteen hour filibuster Senate Bill five, legislation that banned

479
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: abortion after twenty weeks, required clinics to meet the same

480
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: demanding standards as hospitals and surgical centers, and required doctors

481
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: performing the procedure to hold admitting privileges at nearby hospitals.

482
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 3: Davis's filibuster stopped the bill from being voted on before

483
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 3: midnight June twenty fifth, mandated end of the legislative session.

484
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: She killed the legislation for the time being, and the

485
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 3: pink tennis shoes she wore became a symbol of abortion

486
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: rights activism around the world. However, Rick Perry called a

487
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: special session of the legislature the next day in Senate

488
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 3: Bill five passed. Her efforts propelled her into the twenty

489
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 3: fourteen gubernatorial race, but she was crushed by Greg Abbott

490
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: by twenty one point margin.

491
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 4: In recent years, Abbot has led the charge to erase

492
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 4: many of the gains women have won in the fight

493
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: to control their bodies.

494
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 7: We will promote policies that limit the growth of.

495
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 6: Government, not the size of your dreams.

496
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 4: Under Abbot, Texas has passed some of the most intrusive

497
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 4: and extreme anti abortion laws that tightly regulate women's bodies.

498
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, Texas passed Senate Bill eight, which

499
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: banned abortions after the six week of pregnancy. It made

500
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 4: performing an abortion a first or second degree felony unless

501
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 4: the mother's life is in danger or there is risk

502
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 4: of substantial impairment of a major bodily function. The vagueness

503
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 4: of that latter provision has terrified Texas doctors into not

504
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: providing care to several women who have shown up in

505
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 4: emergency rooms at death's door. Texas physicians have become less

506
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 4: willing to perform emergency abortions than they were in the

507
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 4: days before the Road decision, even as far back as

508
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 4: the nineteenth century.

509
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty three, the Texas Supreme Court denied Kate

510
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: Cox of Dallas the right to end a pregnancy, even

511
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: though our fetus suffered from full trisomy eighteen, the severe

512
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 3: genetic anomaly that guaranteed that the child, if it survived pregnancy,

513
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 3: would only live minutes. If a pregnancy continued, Cox may

514
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 3: have lost the ability to have children in the future.

515
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 3: She fled this state in order to obtain an abortion

516
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 3: where a procedure remained illegal. In twenty twenty three, Amanda

517
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 3: Zerwarski almost died waiting for a life saving abortion when

518
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: doctors hesitated to provide care because they feared criminal prosecute.

519
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: For years, abortion ride activists had chanted pro life, that's

520
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 3: a lie, you don't care if women die. In fact,

521
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: the state legislature and Governor Greg Abbott did nothing, as

522
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: the deaths of pregnant women in Texas sword fifty six percent.

523
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, Johnson Lee Barnica, a mother of one,

524
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 4: was joyful when she realized she was pregnant. She hoped

525
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 4: to deliver a sibling for her daughter, but on September

526
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 4: twenty first, seventeen weeks into her pregnancy, she was miscarrying,

527
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 4: with the fetus pressing against her cervix and about to

528
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 4: exit the womb. Barnica's life was in danger, but doctors

529
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 4: at HCA Houston Healthcare Northwest told her and her husband

530
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 4: that because of Texas's law, they could do nothing until

531
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 4: the fetus' heartbeat had stopped. Fearing criminal charges, doctors refused

532
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 4: to medically accelerate the delivery of the dying fetus and

533
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 4: let forty hours pass. Barnica writhed in agony, begged to

534
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 4: be allowed to see her daughter, and a fatal bacterial

535
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 4: in fact ravaged her body. She would die three days later,

536
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 4: leaving her young child without a mother.

537
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 3: On October twenty eighth, twenty twenty three, eighteen year old

538
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 3: Neva Crane was six months pregnant. She began vomiting and

539
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 3: she became soaked in sweat during a baby shower at

540
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: her home in Beaumont. She too was miscaring. Her boyfriend

541
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: drove her to nearby Baptist hospitals. Of Southeast Texas, where

542
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 3: they waited for five hours in a waiting room before

543
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 3: doctors diagnosed her with strapped throat and gave her a

544
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: prescription for antibiotics. Sent home or conditionally worsened, Crane was

545
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: driven to another hospital in town Christa's Southeast Texas, Saint Elizabeth.

546
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: Her fever soared to one hundred and two and she

547
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: was bleeding, but her doctors continue to do nothing but

548
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: administer antibiotics. Eventually, she was wheeled into a third emergency room.

549
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: Doctors gave her two ultrasounds, two, in their words, confirm

550
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: fetal demise. Crane's mother, who had long been opposed to abortions,

551
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: screened at the medical staff to help her dying child.

552
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: Cranes suffered for twenty hours before her heart failed.

553
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 4: Bernica and Crane's stories were revealed by the investigative news

554
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: outlet Pro Publica just days before the twenty twenty four

555
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 4: presidential election. Democratic nominee Kamala Harris made abortion rights a

556
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 4: central part of her doomed campaign. When an anticipated red

557
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 4: wave expected to bring a Republican majority in the twenty

558
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 4: twenty two congressional elections fizzled and a number of abortion

559
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 4: rights initiative passed even in traditional Republican strongholds like Kansas

560
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 4: and Ohio. Many pundits believe that a Dobbs effect had

561
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 4: heralded a permanent political realignment or at least the upcoming

562
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: presidential election results. This phenomenon clearly failed to materialize for Harris.

563
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 4: Abortion rights referenda passed in seven states, including Arizona, Colorado, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, Nevada,

564
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: and New York in November twenty twenty five, but they

565
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 4: foundered in Nebraska and South Dakota, as well as Florida

566
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 4: because the support of fifty seven percent of voters fell

567
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 4: short of the required sixty percent supermajority. In Texas, Trump,

568
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 4: once a pro choice person but now the proud instigator

569
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 4: of the Dobbs decision, carried fifty six percent of the vote.

570
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 4: One of the most prominent Trump supporters, University of Texas PhD.

571
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 4: Kevin Roberts of the Heritage Foundation, might soon be in

572
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: a position to see his dreams of a national ban

573
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 4: on the so called abortion pill, mifepristone, and even the

574
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 4: reversal of the nineteen sixty five Griswold v. Connecticut's Supreme

575
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 4: Court decision that overturned state laws banning control pills and devices.

576
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 3: When Harris lost, anti abortion extremists exuberantly celebrated Trump's triumph.

577
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 3: Neo Nazi Nick Fuentes, who if right wing rap artists

578
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 3: Kanye West got to go to dinner in twenty twenty two.

579
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: At Trump saw the Republican victory as an opportunity to

580
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: reduce swomen to the status property. Hey, we control your bodies.

581
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:04,479
Speaker 1: Guess what.

582
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 6: Guys win again.

583
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 13: Okay, men win again, and yes, we control your bodies. Hi,

584
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 13: I'm your Republican congressman. Hi, I'm your Republican congressman. It's

585
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 13: your body, my choice.

586
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 4: Texas government has become big enough to regulate women's bodies

587
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 4: and small enough to fit inside of its citizens' bedrooms.

588
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: Even though abortion rights have always enjoyed far greater support

589
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 4: than Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito has suggested the right

590
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 4: of women to control their own bodies and get the

591
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 4: vital medical care they need to prevent bodily harm or

592
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 4: their premature deaths seems on the precipice of vanishing. This

593
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 4: grim reality is not deeply rooted in America's history or traditions,

594
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 4: but unfortunately it is the current status quo, and Texas

595
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 4: has played a major role in bringing us to this place.

596
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 4: I'm Stephen Machelli, I'm Michael Phillips. Thanks for listening.

597
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 6: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I

598
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 6: hope you've been enjoying the holiday season. I know I have,

599
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 6: or at least I've been trying to. It's difficult because

600
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,479
Speaker 6: I keep getting distracted by this funny feeling like there's

601
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 6: something watching over me, up in the sky, something buzzing around,

602
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 6: And at first I thought this might just be Santa's sleigh,

603
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 6: but then I realized no, no, no, no no, this

604
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 6: is actually a drone. And oh boy, am I not

605
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 6: the only one. Drone fever is just sweeping the nation

606
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 6: right now with the new Jersey drone panic somehow making

607
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 6: headline based on unconfirmed and very disputable reports. The new

608
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 6: Jersey drone thing isn't real. This is mass hysteria. Almost

609
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 6: all of these incidents of UFOs, UAPs or mysterious drones

610
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,720
Speaker 6: are actually just like regular airplanes going to the airport,

611
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 6: airplanes that you can track online via flight radar. These

612
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 6: aren't nuclear scanning drones, These aren't secret government military projects.

613
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 6: These are either like legal, registered hobbyist drones in some cases,

614
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 6: but really just mostly airplanes. A few weeks ago, there

615
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 6: was a really cloudy day over the New Jersey coast

616
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 6: and that day all of the drone sightings stopped because

617
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 6: you couldn't see up in the sky, you couldn't see

618
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 6: the airplanes. But yeah, the New Jersey drone panic isn't real.

619
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 6: The reason why there's blinking lights flying over LaGuardia is

620
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 6: that those are airplanes taking off and landing at an airport.

621
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 6: This whole panic was boosted by unconfirmed social media reports

622
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 6: and local news sites trying to gain clicks, and somehow

623
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 6: this just broke through into the national mainstream discourse. But

624
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 6: fears over invasive drones isn't necessarily unfounded though. The ones

625
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 6: that you should be worried about aren't UFOs or nuclear

626
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 6: scanning drones, but are actually police drones, which are becoming

627
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 6: all the more commonplace. More and more cities this year

628
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 6: have adopted police drone programs. So for this episode, I'm

629
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 6: going to rerun my episode from early in twenty twenty

630
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 6: four about police drones. Now, in the past year, there's

631
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 6: also been a great increase in the reporting on police drones,

632
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 6: including a fantastic Wired investigation titled the Age of the

633
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 6: Drone Police is Here. They analyzed nearly ten thousand individual

634
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 6: flight records from July twenty twenty one September of twenty

635
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 6: twenty three, containing more than twenty two point three million coordinates.

636
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 6: The investigation showed that poor communities, especially working class and

637
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 6: immigrant communities, were disproportionately surveilled with police drones in Cheula Vista,

638
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 6: flying over neighborhood blocks on the west side more than

639
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 6: ten times longer than blocks on the suburban east side.

640
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 6: And considering Trump's second term, fears over widespread police surveillance

641
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 6: are only more relevant, especially in immigrant communities, and even

642
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 6: in instances where drones like this fly over places like

643
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 6: abortion clinics, and these fears are not unfounded. In twenty twenty,

644
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 6: the San Diego Union Tribune discovered that the Cheulavista Police

645
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 6: Department was sharing its license plate reader data directly with ICE.

646
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 6: Now it's still unclear how many drones Cheulavista PD currently has,

647
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 6: but as of twenty twenty two, they had thirty two

648
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 6: of these high definition camera mounted drones, drones which have

649
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 6: now done over twenty one thousand flights since twenty eighteen.

650
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 6: All of this will get discussed more in depth in

651
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 6: the episode, but for an update later, I discuss a

652
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 6: court case to secure the public's right to access drowne footage,

653
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 6: and this case is still ongoing. Last spring, the city

654
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 6: tried to appeal to the California Supreme Court, who ultimately

655
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 6: declined to take up the case, basically reaffirming the lower

656
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 6: court's ruling against the police to withhold drone footage. This

657
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 6: case is once again back to trial court to finalize

658
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 6: details of how certain footage should be released. So, without

659
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 6: further ado, here's my episode from the twenty twenty four

660
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 6: Consumer Electronics Showcase, Police Drones and you welcome to it

661
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 6: could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. Now, last week I

662
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 6: spent a few days in Las Vegas for the Consumer

663
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 6: Electronics Showcase. Most of the time of the convention, I

664
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 6: was just walking around the show floor looking at various

665
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 6: new types of surveillance equipment, AI products, and various other

666
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 6: bullshit that was being pedled to the many industry attendees

667
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 6: of CEES. But I was also able to go to

668
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 6: a few panels. Now panels are really interesting because you

669
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 6: get to hear people who are working inside industries talk

670
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 6: about stuff that they don't usually really publicly talk about

671
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 6: very much. And on the first day of the convention,

672
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 6: I went to a panel about drone technology. Half of

673
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 6: the panel was about how Walmart is launching new delivery

674
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 6: drones in Dallas, Texas. The other half was about police drones.

675
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 6: And that's what we're going to be talking about here today,

676
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 6: how the police are using drones, why they're using drones,

677
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 6: and how you can probably expect to be seeing a

678
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 6: lot more drones up in the sky piloted by either

679
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 6: an AI or a police officer. So let's get started.

680
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 6: Cheula Vista is the southernmost kind of medium sized city

681
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 6: in California, with the population of two hundred and seventy

682
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 6: eight thousand people. Cheulavista has a police force of two

683
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 6: hundred and eighty nine sworn officers, as well as one

684
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 6: hundred and twenty civilian employees. On top of their nearly

685
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 6: three hundred officers, they operate a drone fleet ten hours

686
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 6: a day, seven days a week, launching high deff camera

687
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 6: mounted drones from four locations throughout their small city. I'm

688
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 6: going to quote from an article from the MIT Technology Review,

689
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 6: which did a deep dive onto Cheulavista's police drones back

690
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 6: in February of twenty twenty three. Quote. Cheula Vista uses

691
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 6: these drones to extend the power of its workforce in

692
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 6: a number of ways. For example, if only one officer

693
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,439
Speaker 6: is available when two calls come in, one foreign armed

694
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 6: suspect and another for shoplifting, an officer will respond to

695
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 6: the first one. But now cvpd's Public Information Officer, Sergeant

696
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 6: Anthony Molina, says that dispatchers can send a drone to

697
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 6: surreptitiously trail the suspected shoplifter unquote. And this really gets

698
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 6: at the heart of how these drones are going to

699
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 6: get used. They exist to funnel more people into the

700
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 6: criminal justice system. Instead of having to choose between two calls,

701
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 6: one of which actually could relate to saving someone's life,

702
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 6: the other just a petty crime, now the police can

703
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 6: easily follow someone doing a petty crime while responding to

704
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 6: other calls and eventually catch up. It's a way to

705
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 6: just expand the amount of people that can be arrested

706
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 6: and thrown into jail. Nowadays, drones are pretty common tools

707
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 6: for police. Over one five hundred departments currently use drones,

708
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 6: usually for special occasions though like search and rescue, crime

709
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 6: scene documentation, protest surveillance, and sometimes tracking suspects, But at

710
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 6: the moment, only about a dozen police departments regularly dispatch

711
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 6: drones in response to nine to one one calls, the

712
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 6: first of which was Cheu La Vista PD launched their

713
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 6: quote drone as first Responder program back in twenty eighteen

714
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 6: with the goal of having an unmanned aerial system or

715
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 6: drone be proactively deployed before an officer is on SENE.

716
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 6: Now we'll hear from Chief Roxanna Kennedy of the Chula

717
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 6: Vista Police Department talking on the drone technology panel at CEES.

718
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 14: We are seven miles from the Mexico border, and we

719
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 14: are the second largest city in San Diego County.

720
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 11: So we have about two hundred.

721
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 14: And ninety officers and we serve a community of about

722
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 14: three hundred thousand. Because of the close proximity into the door,

723
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 14: we have a lot of people that travel back and forth.

724
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 14: We have a drone program that I'm awfully proud of,

725
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 14: and we are responding proactively to calls for service in

726
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 14: our community, and so we have drone station from botfent

727
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 14: locations throughout our city.

728
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 11: We have pilots in command that are on the roadtop,

729
00:45:58,760 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 11: and then we.

730
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 14: Have a operation center where we have smart officers that

731
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 14: are part one to seven pilots that fly the drones.

732
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 11: So we are responding now to calls for service.

733
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 14: On average, an officer on seeing a drone pen on

734
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 14: seeing that, sharing information with our officers live streaming that

735
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 14: information on our cell phones or in our computers that

736
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 14: we're seeing information about the call.

737
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 11: Within ninety seconds on average.

738
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 14: And so what it's doing for us in sual Vista

739
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 14: and for our community is we are providing information rapidly,

740
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 14: real time information to officers so that they can make

741
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 14: better decisions so that everyone goes home safely. We say,

742
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 14: the community safer, the officers are safer, and the subjects

743
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 14: that we encounter are safer.

744
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 11: So we're only proud of what we're doing.

745
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 6: The way police are able to deploy drones used to

746
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 6: be a lot more limited. The use of drones is

747
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 6: regulated by the FFA, the Federal Aviation Administration. In most cases,

748
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 6: the FFA requires that both hobbyists and please departments only

749
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 6: fly drones within the operator's own line of sight. But

750
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 6: starting back in twenty nineteen, agencies and vendors can start

751
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 6: applying for a beyond visual line of sight or bev

752
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 6: loss waiver from the FFA to fly drones remotely, allowing

753
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 6: for much longer flights in restricted airspace. Chula Vista Pedi

754
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 6: was the first department to get a BEVLOST waiver. The

755
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 6: MIT Tech Review estimated last year that roughly two hundred

756
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 6: and twenty five more departments now have one as well.

757
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 14: Another thing that I always talk about because I think

758
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 14: it's critical, is the concept of why they're using drones,

759
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 14: what the benefit is to the community with the use

760
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 14: of our drones. And I truly believe that when my

761
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 14: officers can pick up their cell phone before they respond

762
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 14: to the call and they can look and see the scene.

763
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 11: What's happening where the individual is.

764
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 14: If the person's facing in the middle of the park,

765
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 14: there are no children and there are no there's nobody

766
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 14: that's within the reach of this individual harmy, you might

767
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 14: not have to rush into that scene so quickly. Officers

768
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 14: can dsciate make better decisions. And I mean this is

769
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 14: just a game changer for law enforcement and right now

770
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 14: you know, we were the first agent agency to be

771
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 14: involved in the integrated pilot program with the FAA.

772
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 11: We're very proud of that that.

773
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 14: They trusted us enough for us to be the organization

774
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 14: that brought forward all these these ideas that are now

775
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 14: being utilized in law enforcements. Now.

776
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 6: I've watched a lot of videos of police talking about

777
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 6: why they're using drones, of drone training companies talking about

778
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 6: why police drones are so important. In one video on

779
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 6: their website, this guy from Skyfire Consulting was talking about

780
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 6: how police may not have had to kill tam or

781
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 6: Rice if they simply had a drone watching beforehand so

782
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 6: they could see that it was a toy gun, which

783
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 6: is a ridiculous thing to say, because in the nine

784
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 6: one call that jump started this entire police interaction, it

785
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 6: was expressed that the caller thought the gun was probably

786
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 6: a toy. And this notion that is simply if police

787
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 6: have more ability to surveil, they'll be able to respond

788
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 6: safer and apply less deadly force, I think is a

789
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 6: pretty suspect premise. Now, the effectiveness of drone technology and

790
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 6: law enforcement is challenging to verify and quantify the MIT

791
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 6: Tech Review cannot find any third party studies showing that

792
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 6: drones reduce crime, even after interviewing CVPD officers as well

793
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 6: as drone vendors and researchers quote, nor could anyone provide

794
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 6: statistics on how many additional arrests or convictions came from

795
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 6: using drone technology. I was able to find some data

796
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 6: on cvpd's website talking about how many drone initiated interactions

797
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 6: resulted in arrests, but quantifying additional arrests seems to be

798
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 6: a little challenging. Now if you look at cheul to

799
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 6: PD's own drone response to stats, the vast majority of

800
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 6: deployments I estimate around seventy percent are for what the

801
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 6: director of investigations for the privacy rights group the Electronic

802
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 6: Frontier Foundation refers to as quote crimes of poverty unquote,

803
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 6: which he believes will be the target of most drone

804
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 6: policing as opposed to violent crime. Nearly thirty percent of

805
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 6: Chula Vista's drone deployments are for what's categorized as disturbances.

806
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 6: Almost fifteen percent are for psychological evaluations, ten percent are

807
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 6: for quote, check the area and information, over seven percent

808
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 6: are for welfare checks. Six point five percent is for

809
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 6: quote unknown problem and over six percent is for suspicious

810
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:50,359
Speaker 6: person and another six percent for traffic accidents. Now, some

811
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 6: drone deployments do result in patrol units not having to

812
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 6: be dispatched, but CVPD also says that drones have assisted

813
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 6: in thousands of arrests. And I'm really not sure if

814
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 6: having a drone following someone around is the best thing

815
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 6: for a fifty one to fifty psych evaluation. The presence

816
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 6: of a police officer doesn't always make the situations better either,

817
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 6: but I don't see having a drone be a really

818
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 6: calming presence if you think someone needs mental help. Funding

819
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 6: a whole fleet of heavy duty surveillance drones and paying

820
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 6: dedicated operators costs money. Now it's unclear to me how

821
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 6: many drones to Levista PD currently has, and on their

822
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 6: website they list ten different drone models currently being in

823
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 6: their fleet, most of them really expensive DGI drones like

824
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 6: the DGI Matrix, the DGI Inspire, the DGA Phantom, the

825
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 6: dj Maverick, as well as drones from a few other

826
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 6: random companies. But nevertheless, Chief Kennedy is very grateful for

827
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 6: their local Police Foundation for heading up the funding for

828
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 6: their DFR drone first Responder program. Let's hear from her.

829
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 11: I don't know if anyone here.

830
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 14: Is in law enforcement, but many agencies use drums and

831
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 14: there are all different types of drones that are available.

832
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 14: I call them reactive drums or ones that are like

833
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 14: the tactical drums that you can use to go in

834
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 14: on a hostage situation or a missing person, to check

835
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 14: in the.

836
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 11: Canyon areas, or you know, interior drones. We have drunes

837
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 11: of grow underneath.

838
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 14: Beds, go inside addicts, all types of different drones, and

839
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 14: many organizations have drones like that, but a DFR drone

840
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 14: is very unique and different because these drones are flying

841
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 14: as you can imagine, eighteen thousand missions. It puts a

842
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 14: lot of wear and tear on them. But that is

843
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 14: one of the biggest challenges beyond the that of funding.

844
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 14: So we don't have huge budgets that are abouted for

845
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 14: drone programs, and so we've had to be very, very

846
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 14: creative in our police department, and we were very blessed

847
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 14: to have a police Foundation that has taken on the

848
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 14: responsibility to help us really start our drone program and

849
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 14: continue going forward. So funding is always going to be

850
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 14: a challenge and dependent upon.

851
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 11: The drone that you use. There are some drones that

852
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 11: you can't get any as.

853
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 14: You can't use for assets seizure funding, nor can you

854
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 14: get grants for because sometimes when it comes to foreign

855
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 14: may drones there are many challenges as well. So you

856
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 14: have to think of that and then we deal with legislation.

857
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 14: Right now, that's the new challenge that we all have.

858
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 14: We have to bite some battles. Like I said, I'm agnostic.

859
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 14: I want to use what's the best drum out there

860
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 14: and protect the information and we do that with encrypted

861
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,720
Speaker 14: software programs that are on private servers. But you'll see

862
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 14: that there's a lot of discussion about drones and what drones.

863
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 11: We should use right now.

864
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,720
Speaker 6: We'll get back to the chief's offhanded mention of legal

865
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 6: battles in a bit here. But Chula Vista's budgetary situation

866
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 6: may not be as dire as the chief makes it

867
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 6: out to be. On top of their current fifty five

868
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 6: million dollar operating budget. Back in twenty twenty, the Loprenza

869
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 6: newspaper revealed that departments in San Diego County had secretly

870
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 6: been getting hundreds of millions of dollars in high tech

871
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 6: police equipment including armored vehicles, facial recognition and phone breaking software,

872
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 6: license plate readers, drones, ria gear, among other miscellaneous technology

873
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 6: as a part of a DHS grant program due to

874
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 6: their close proximity to the US Mexico border. Chula Vista

875
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 6: was one such department, and as of twenty twenty, so

876
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,720
Speaker 6: four years ago, they had already received over one million

877
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 6: dollars in grant funds from this DHS program, titled the

878
00:54:55,000 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 6: quote Urban Area Security Initiative. Considering Chief kend these budgetary concerns,

879
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 6: drones actually have a lot of upsides financially, as they

880
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 6: are often a lot cheaper than alternative surveillance methods, as

881
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 6: well as being relatively easy to deploy remotely, either with

882
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 6: a joystick or just by clicking a point on a

883
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 6: map from a comfy office building. Issues around this ease

884
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 6: of use was pointed out by Dave Moss, the director

885
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 6: of investigations for the privacy rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation,

886
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 6: who was quoted in the MIT article saying, quote, up

887
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 6: until the last like five to ten years, there was

888
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 6: this unspoken check and balance on law enforcement power money.

889
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 6: You cannot have a police officer standing on every corner

890
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 6: of every street. You can't have a helicopter flying twenty

891
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 6: four seven because of fuel and insurance is really expensive.

892
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 6: But with all these new technologies, we don't have that

893
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 6: check and balance anymore. That's just going to result in

894
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 6: more people being pulled through the criminal justice system. Unquote.

895
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 14: My officers constantly are on the air. Now, is you

896
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 14: as more available in US? One available because it's getting

897
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 14: them more information. Think about the fact that you can

898
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 14: look at your cell phone. I could be anywhere in

899
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 14: the world and I can look at kit lets me

900
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 14: know whenever there's.

901
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 11: A drone flock, and I can walk.

902
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 14: I can have visual awareness, aial overlay of what's happening

903
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 14: in my community, no matter.

904
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 11: Where I am.

905
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:27,439
Speaker 6: Advancements in technology are leading to further normalization of police surveillance.

906
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 6: Ten years ago, would people react to news of a

907
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 6: twenty four hour police drone program the same way they

908
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 6: would now? What was once the threat of Big Brother

909
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 6: has since become a very sought after, unfetishized nanny state.

910
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,479
Speaker 6: In the v for Veneta graphic novel, anarchist writer Alan

911
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 6: Moore imagined a fascist Britain characterized by surveillance cameras around

912
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 6: every corner, and now cities around the country are setting

913
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 6: up their own street mounted cameras linked to private security

914
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 6: cameras and ring door cameras to create a network of

915
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 6: life coverage around a whole city which is instantly accessible

916
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 6: to police. The more widespread consumer adoption of new technologies

917
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 6: like small camera mounted drones and doorbell cameras, the more

918
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 6: acceptable it seems for police to add to such technology

919
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 6: to their arsenal of surveillance tools. It almost becomes expected

920
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 6: to Levis Tipdi has routinely declined to answer why their

921
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 6: drones are always recording, both to and from the scene,

922
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 6: and the department has put in a lot of effort

923
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 6: into managing the backlash against their expanding drone program.

924
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 11: And I'll tell you one thing.

925
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 14: Even some of the after this, they were very concerned

926
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 14: about drones in the sense of privacy.

927
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 11: What are you doing with these drones?

928
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 14: As you're responding, you're trying to gather data and information

929
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 14: to spy on us, right, And we have had to

930
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 14: go to a lot of detail and explaining that as

931
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 14: our drama lifsaw is immediately it is recording because that's

932
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,959
Speaker 14: the information and gather for us as that drone responds,

933
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 14: the camera is already going all three miles down the

934
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 14: roads where the scene is and giving us vital information

935
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 14: as the officers are responding. But one of the criticism was,

936
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 14: go on the way back, is your drone just going

937
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 14: in my backyard?

938
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 11: What if we're smoking marijuana in our backyard? And I said,

939
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 11: you're in California, doesn't really matter about way?

940
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:23,479
Speaker 1: Well, let that wa go right.

941
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 14: But we said, okay, we gave your concern, and so

942
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 14: what we did was we worked with the software company

943
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 14: that we were with, and they created an automatic so

944
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 14: that as a drone returns, it automatically tilts to the horizon,

945
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 14: so we're not recording anything. If another call came out,

946
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 14: we can immediately we'll go back in it or fight

947
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 14: map it for us and the share that information later on.

948
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 11: But the goal is to listen to your community as well.

949
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 6: Chief Kennedy's claim here is difficult to back up because

950
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 6: CVPD have refused to show with the public any of

951
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 6: the drone footage they routinely collect. But if we take

952
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 6: the Chief at her word here anyway, she admits that

953
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 6: the drone goes back to recording at street level as

954
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 6: soon as there's another nine one one call as they

955
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 6: record everything on the way to a scene. And the

956
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 6: way she phrases this whole tilt feature is quite misleading

957
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 6: because the camera never actually stops recording. She just claims

958
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 6: that it tilts slightly upwards in between nine one one calls,

959
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 6: but it's still capturing footage up to three miles away

960
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 6: the entire time it's in the air. Police in Cheulavista

961
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 6: have flown over eighteen thousand missions with their drowns. That's

962
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 6: a lot of footage. When talking about the privacy concerns

963
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 6: had by some residents of Chewulavista, Chief Kennedy really emphasized

964
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 6: how much her and the department really care about listening

965
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 6: to community feedback and how data transparency is so important

966
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 6: to CVPD.

967
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 14: Community engagement is a si, especially in law enforcement, because

968
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 14: there are so many challenges when it comes to misinformation

969
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 14: that's out there, and whenever you're a part of what's

970
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 14: deemed as a government, everyone thinks that you have some

971
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 14: ulterior motive when you're involved with any type of technology,

972
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 14: and so we have worked really hard to build very

973
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 14: strong relationships with every aspect of our community. So it

974
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 14: was about in twenty fifteen when we started talking about

975
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 14: the concept and the possibility of drones, and I laughed

976
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 14: with chant and said, George Jentsen, because that's my story

977
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 14: that I used to and I love it because I

978
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 14: made fun off my guys. When they said that we

979
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 14: want to fly drunes, I said, oh, come on, now,

980
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 14: what are we in beet George jetson flying rap the cars.

981
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 11: And then I saw today they talked about a blind car.

982
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 14: So it happens, it happens, all right. And so with

983
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 14: the community, we started having these conversations. We created a

984
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 14: working group, and we started doing community forums. We started

985
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 14: asking the community about what would you think if we

986
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 14: were able to do something like this. We even went

987
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 14: to some of the organizations that may not.

988
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 11: Always be so supportive of these types of groups.

989
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 14: We work with the ASLVIE and ask for their input

990
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 14: on our policy. So before we ever flew the drune,

991
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 14: we call it the krawl lolock run Base. We're still

992
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 14: at the very end of crawl. We're not into lock

993
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 14: yet and we've been doing it again also for five years.

994
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 11: So you have to make certain that you're transparent, and.

995
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 14: We provided all types of information that are available if

996
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 14: you go to. All you have put in is jobs

997
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 14: to place drums and it'll come up with us and

998
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 14: you can look at all the things that we do,

999
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 14: all the information that we share, the flight maps that

1000
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 14: we share. I mean, it's just super important to have

1001
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 14: those community forums.

1002
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 11: Every year.

1003
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 14: We do a community forum twice a year where we

1004
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 14: ask for input from our community.

1005
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 6: Later on in the panel, Chief Kennedy said that CVPD

1006
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 6: is quote unquote extremely transparent about their flight data and

1007
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 6: quote unquote have nothing to hide relating to their use

1008
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 6: of surveillance drones, which is a curious claim considering the

1009
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 6: fact that CVPD has historically kept all drone footage hidden

1010
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 6: from the public and has fought in court to do so.

1011
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 6: Despite the chief's emphasis on the police's commitment to transparency

1012
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 6: and the importance of listening to community feedback, even going

1013
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 6: as far as to consult the ACLU when developing their

1014
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 6: drone program, for years now, the Cheulavista Police Department has

1015
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 6: denied all FOYA and public records requests for any drone

1016
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 6: footage in response. Are Tuno Castnares, a Cheulavista resident and

1017
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 6: owner of the local bilingual newspaper Loprenza, filed a lawsuit

1018
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 6: against the city. CVPD argued that all drone footage should

1019
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 6: be categorically exempt from the public records requests on the

1020
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 6: basis that the footage could be used for a future investigation.

1021
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 6: Just last December, only a few weeks before Cees, the

1022
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 6: California Fourth District Court of Appeals ruled that this blanket

1023
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 6: exemption is invalid and that not all drone first responder

1024
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 6: footage could be classified as a part of uppending or

1025
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 6: ongoing criminal investigation, pointing to examples such as nine one

1026
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 6: one calls about a roaming mountain lion or a stranded motorist.

1027
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 6: And police were not happy about this ruling. I'll talk

1028
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 6: about their reaction at the end of the episode, but

1029
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 6: controlling the narrative about the drone first responder program has

1030
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 6: been of the utmost importance to Trulavista Police, as the

1031
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 6: chief herself expressed at the panel, and we're real.

1032
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 11: Good about telling our story.

1033
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 14: If you don't tell your own story in law enforcement,

1034
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 14: other people will tell it for.

1035
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 11: It and it might not be the right story.

1036
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 14: So we've gotten a really good at sharing on our

1037
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 14: social media and through YouTube channels and everything.

1038
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 6: Successfulies of what we're doing that is quite the claim there,

1039
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 6: to paraphrase the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Without public access to

1040
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 6: their drone footage, it makes it very difficult to assess

1041
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 6: how much privacy you have in Cheula Vista and whether

1042
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 6: police are even following their own rules about when and

1043
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 6: whether they record sensitive places like people's homes, backyards, or

1044
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 6: public protests. And that's why this recent ruling and the

1045
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 6: legal precedent it sets is a huge win for actual

1046
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 6: transparency and marks the first step towards the public finally

1047
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 6: getting a look at how these drones are being used

1048
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 6: in Scheula Vista. With drone first Responder programs is spreading

1049
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 6: to police departments across the country modeled after the one

1050
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 6: in Chula Vesta. Combined with the increasing presence of stationary

1051
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 6: street level cameras, the ability for police to be watching

1052
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 6: everywhere without the need for on the ground officers creates

1053
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 6: what the EFF refers to as quote, a fundamental change

1054
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 6: in strategy, with police responding to a much much larger

1055
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 6: number of situations with drones, resulting in pervasive, if not persistent,

1056
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 6: surveillance of communities unquote. Speaking of persistent surveillance. Near the

1057
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 6: end of the panel, The Chief announced that to Lavesta,

1058
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 6: PD is planning to expand their ten hour a day

1059
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 6: drone first responder program to a constant twenty four hour

1060
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 6: a day drone surveillance program. More than doubling the department's

1061
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 6: capacity to have eyes in the sky would mean a

1062
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 6: lot more work hours for drone operators, as well as

1063
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 6: a large increase in the amount of video files being

1064
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 6: stored indefinitely, but Chief Kennedy claimed that they're looking into

1065
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,479
Speaker 6: offsetting costs by replacing some of the drone piloting team

1066
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 6: with AI assisted piloting and autonomous devices.

1067
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 14: You've clearly been the leader with thrones's first responder technology.

1068
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 11: Looking forward, what is the future hold for department?

1069
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 4: I assume you're spending a lot of time telling others

1070
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 4: about the program edition using drones, but beyond that, what's up.

1071
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,439
Speaker 14: Well, my hope is that we'll be moving towards twenty

1072
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 14: four hour operations. Right now, we're from sunrise to sunset,

1073
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 14: we go till close to ten o'clock at night, which

1074
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 14: goes a little bit beyond that.

1075
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 11: And then one of the challenges, and I.

1076
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 14: Know you're only getting like a little piece of the

1077
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 14: information about exactly how we're doing this, but from the

1078
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 14: four different locations that we fly on each of the rooftops,

1079
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 14: we have what's called the piloting command, and that piloting

1080
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 14: command is contracted through a company and we and they

1081
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 14: just have visual awareness of the sky and they work

1082
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 14: in coordination with our drone pilot inside our operations center.

1083
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 14: But that's a huge expense for us to pay lead

1084
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 14: for each site right now with the operations that we

1085
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 14: have to pay about one hundred thousand dollars per year,

1086
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 14: So that's four hundred thousand dollars for four locations beyond

1087
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 14: all the other processociating and so if you get expense

1088
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 14: and my hope is that and we keep hearing about

1089
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 14: you've see some of the testing and we've been testing

1090
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 14: it as well in our area. Are what's called drone

1091
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 14: in the box or there's some of the systems that

1092
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 14: are out there right now that organizations are using that

1093
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 14: are autonomous, and so we're getting there, but we're not

1094
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 14: quite there because it's very different when you're dealing with

1095
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 14: flying over people and you're flying into areas where the

1096
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 14: drone was to drop out the sky and harm people

1097
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 14: in our community. That could create tremendous challenges for us,

1098
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 14: so we're very As I mentioned the crawl phase, So.

1099
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 6: To explain how these AI autonomous drones would work, It's

1100
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 6: essentially this box the size of a truck bed that

1101
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 6: can either be mounted in like a police pickup truck

1102
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 6: or be stored on various rooftops around the city, and

1103
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 6: someone just needs to point at a place on a

1104
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 6: map and the drone will fly in pilot itself around

1105
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 6: obstacles and basically circle around an area to do surveillance,

1106
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:19,640
Speaker 6: and you can call it back when you're done. This

1107
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,879
Speaker 6: would require a whole bunch of drones to just be

1108
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 6: launching and being piloted by themselves. You wouldn't have to

1109
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 6: train random police officers to become FAA licensed pilots, and

1110
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 6: you could just have the whole thing in the box

1111
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 6: like it's called drone in the box. And these are

1112
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 6: only going to become more common and cheaper. Imagine having

1113
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 6: ten of these throw out a city, launching from like

1114
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 6: ten different rooftops, being able to fly around by themselves,

1115
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 6: constantly going around in communities, constantly going to GPS coordinates

1116
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 6: linked to the nine one one calls, creating a whole

1117
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 6: wealth of footage instantly available to police live streamed from

1118
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 6: the air. Matt Sloane, the founder of Skyfire Consulting, a

1119
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 6: company here in Atlanta that trains law enforcement agencies on

1120
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 6: the use of drones and DFR programs, thinks that we'll

1121
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 6: start seeing autonomous deployment of police drones within the next

1122
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,480
Speaker 6: year or two, as police budgets increase and become allocated

1123
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 6: for unmanned aerial systems. He referred to the state of

1124
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 6: drone use by police as quote rapidly escalating. Jeu la

1125
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 6: Vista likes to market itself as a pioneer of this

1126
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 6: smart city movement, which consequently makes them able to receive

1127
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 6: a whole bunch of grant funding.

1128
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 5: Now.

1129
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 6: The idea of the smart city is built around having

1130
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 6: a massive amount of data to automate certain city services.

1131
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 6: So for this idea to work, there needs to be

1132
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 6: a way to collect that data, and these drones are

1133
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 6: a major part of that. The website for the city

1134
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 6: of Cheu la Vista also lists projects like electronic transportation,

1135
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,639
Speaker 6: adaptive traffic signals in app for non emergency city services,

1136
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 6: as well as quote crime map and police dispatch modernization

1137
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 6: unquote as also being smart city initiatives.

1138
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 14: We have what's called five nine one, and that allows

1139
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 14: my officers to hear incoming nine more one calls before

1140
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 14: dispatch even puts it into the system. They can hear

1141
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 14: what's going on there, and that is tremendously in.

1142
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 11: Valuable to them.

1143
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 14: We have so many different layers of technology that have

1144
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 14: really showcase the value.

1145
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 6: Live nine one one is a new piece of software

1146
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 6: that allows patrol officers to listen to live stream to

1147
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 6: nine one one calls directly and pinpoints the location of

1148
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 6: the caller via GPS. Now, I don't even have time

1149
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 6: to get into the many reasons that this could be

1150
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 6: a bad idea, but simply put, police do not need

1151
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 6: to respond to every call that goes into nine one one,

1152
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 6: let alone be giving random cops this ability to self

1153
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 6: dispatch on their own. It just seems like that could

1154
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:02,959
Speaker 6: have many many consequences. But anyway, back to drones. According

1155
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,759
Speaker 6: to a twenty twenty article in the newspaper Loprenza, cities

1156
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 6: in San Diego County like Chula Vista, have received equipment

1157
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 6: such as tethered drones used for stationary surveillance, poll cameras,

1158
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 6: license plate readers, and cell phone cracking technology used to

1159
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 6: circumvent passwords from the Urban Area Security Initiative DHS grant program.

1160
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 6: A lot of these technologies have use in the Smart

1161
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:31,520
Speaker 6: City Idyllic plan for data collection to automate city services.

1162
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 6: After the drone panel was over and I was walking

1163
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 6: around the show floor at CEES, I couldn't help but

1164
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 6: notice all of the smart cameras and AI image recognition

1165
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 6: systems being advertised for law enforcement applications. Software that can

1166
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 6: almost instantaneously scan through a wealth of footage and track

1167
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 6: people's movements, run facial recognition, and identify every article of clothing.

1168
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 6: Versions of this type of software are already in US

1169
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,759
Speaker 6: use by many police departments, and they will only get better, cheaper,

1170
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 6: and more common. In effect, what this does is remove

1171
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 6: a lot of the detective leg work. Instead of having

1172
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,879
Speaker 6: to manually map someone's movements and track down what niche

1173
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 6: etsy shirt someone's wearing, these aisystems can now do this

1174
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 6: all automatically. To quote the MIT Tech Review article on

1175
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 6: cvpd's DFR drone program quote. As the technology continues to spread,

1176
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 6: privacy and civil liberty groups are raising the question of

1177
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 6: what happens when drones are combined with license plate readers,

1178
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 6: networks of fixed cameras, and new real time command centers

1179
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 6: that digest and sort through video evidence, this digital dragnet

1180
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 6: could dramatically expand surveillance capabilities and lead to even more

1181
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 6: police interactions with demographics that have historically suffered from over policing. Unquote.

1182
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 6: Pedro Rios, a human rights advocate with the American Friends

1183
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 6: Service Committee and a member of Chula Vista's Community Tech Council,

1184
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 6: was quoted in the MITA article saying, quote people in

1185
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,719
Speaker 6: the community have no awareness of what images are captured,

1186
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 6: how the footage is retained, and who has access. It's

1187
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 6: a big red flag for a city that says it's

1188
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 6: at the forefront of the smart city movement. Unquote.

1189
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 14: These drawns, they're revolutionizing the world. I mean people who

1190
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 14: are not taking drawn seriously right now, who will be

1191
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 14: left behind. We have flown eighteen one hundred and fifty missions.

1192
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 14: You can go on a web page, you can see

1193
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,600
Speaker 14: the flight data. We're extremely transparent. We share all that

1194
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 14: with our community. We have no need to hide. We

1195
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 14: are in the business of saving wise and I believe

1196
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 14: drones are one of the.

1197
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 11: Best escort folks.

1198
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:47,560
Speaker 6: If they truly have nothing to hide and are extremely

1199
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 6: transparent about the use of their camera mounted drones. I

1200
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 6: wonder why they've spent years in court fighting to keep

1201
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 6: every second of drone footage from being seen by the public. Luckily,

1202
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 6: after Chief Kennedy talked for like thirty minutes about how

1203
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 6: much they care about community engagement and how transparent they

1204
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 6: are with their flight data, I was able to ask

1205
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 6: the Chief how their commitment to transparency relates to the

1206
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 6: recent lawsuit she just lost over hiding drone footage. And

1207
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 6: I also threw in a question about drones at protests.

1208
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 6: Let's take a listen. Yeah, a question for the chief.

1209
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 15: So, I know you talked about the importance of listening

1210
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 15: to the community and community engagement, and I'm not sure

1211
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 15: this is the case for your department, but other departments

1212
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 15: who've kind of followed suit, for your example, have been

1213
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 15: using drones to surveil first time in activity stuff. And

1214
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 15: I know you recently lost a court case regarding the

1215
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 15: availability of drone footage, so I'm curious about the kind

1216
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 15: of what the rationale for that footage is and how

1217
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,560
Speaker 15: that plays into this idea of trying to be transparent

1218
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 15: with the community for how these drones are being used.

1219
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 14: That's kind of going to be a little bit difficult

1220
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 14: for me to answer because the court case is still

1221
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 14: moving forward.

1222
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 11: It's an active case. If you read it, we didn't

1223
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:06,679
Speaker 11: lose the case.

1224
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 14: It was recommended to go to a lower core to

1225
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 14: go back for some clarification under three categories.

1226
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 6: Now this is either a straight upply or a huge

1227
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:21,519
Speaker 6: cope and a gross mischaracterization. But more on that in

1228
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:22,799
Speaker 6: a sec I think.

1229
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 11: It's really important.

1230
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 14: As I mentioned, there are ethics involved in the ethical

1231
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 14: responsibility that you have as a law enforcement agency is

1232
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 14: super important. So how you utilize your drones and how

1233
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 14: you do outrage with your community is fundamentally important. And

1234
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 14: so we don't use our drones for if there was

1235
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 14: a protest, We would not use our drones if there

1236
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 14: was if it turned into a riot.

1237
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:56,640
Speaker 11: So if people.

1238
01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 14: Were out there and they have the ability to to

1239
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,960
Speaker 14: speak freely to share their concerns, and if it's in

1240
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 14: an opposition, our goal is to make sure that we

1241
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 14: keep it safe for all parties involved on either side.

1242
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 11: So my hope is that other people look.

1243
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 14: At it the same way that we do, and hopefully

1244
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:18,520
Speaker 14: I've been able to answer it. As much as I

1245
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,639
Speaker 14: believe me, I'm dying to give you more than I can't.

1246
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,560
Speaker 6: Okay, thank you for those questions.

1247
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 11: Folks were out of time. Maybe there could be questions

1248
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 11: after the session.

1249
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 6: So yeah, there were no more questions after mine. I

1250
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 6: kind of shut down that possibility anyway.

1251
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 16: Okay.

1252
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 6: So, first of all, the line between a protest and

1253
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 6: a riot is meaningless. Police can declare riot for any

1254
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 6: reason they see fit, including people being in a road marching.

1255
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 6: I've seen this happen dozens of times, nearly hundreds of

1256
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 6: times actually, So just moving on from that immediately, let's

1257
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 6: go back to the court case. The city of true

1258
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 6: Liavista did lose the argument that they were trying to make.

1259
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 6: They did lose the case. The Fourth District Court of

1260
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 6: Appeals ruled that claiming exemption from the Public Records Act

1261
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 6: was unlawful and sent the case back to trial court

1262
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 6: to hammer the details of how much footage is subject

1263
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 6: to public disclosure and figure out a process for standardizing

1264
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 6: the release of the footage.

1265
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 1: Now.

1266
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 6: The same day I attended this panel in Las Vegas,

1267
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 6: January ninth, the city of Chula Vista requested an appeal

1268
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 6: to the California Supreme Court to prevent the release of

1269
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,719
Speaker 6: their aerial video footage. There is a sixty day waiting

1270
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 6: period where the High Court will decide whether or not

1271
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 6: to take the case, and if they decline finally, it

1272
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 6: will go back to trial court to decide on the

1273
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 6: process of how selected drone footage shall be made publicly available.

1274
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 6: The police are now currently claiming that making DFR footage

1275
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 6: adhere to the Public Records Act would violate the privacy

1276
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 6: of Chula Vista residents captured in the videos, which perhaps

1277
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 6: demonstrates that the aerial videos should have never been captured

1278
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:05,679
Speaker 6: in the first place. I'm going to read a press

1279
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 6: release from the city's communication manager. Quote, the city declined

1280
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,280
Speaker 6: to provide the copies because doing so might have violated

1281
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 6: individual privacy rights. The city would have to manually review

1282
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 6: and redact every video recording to protect information considered personal,

1283
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 6: such as the images of faces, license plates, backyards, and more. Unquote,

1284
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:28,799
Speaker 6: So the city is both trying to argue that having

1285
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,080
Speaker 6: to manually review each requested file to determine if the

1286
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 6: video in question is related to a pending investigation, as

1287
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 6: well as redacting personal information captured on camera, would be

1288
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 6: way too costly and time consuming. City officials claim that

1289
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 6: reviewing and redacting videos from one month to obscure faces,

1290
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:50,640
Speaker 6: license plates, and backyards would take a full time employee

1291
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 6: around two hundred and thirty days. I'm going to read

1292
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 6: a little bit more from the city's recent statement. Quote,

1293
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 6: while the city takes very seriously obligation to provide the

1294
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 6: public access to public records, the city is concerned that

1295
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:10,560
Speaker 6: the Court of Appeal's opinion may compromise significant privacy concerns

1296
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 6: of members of the public in this case or in

1297
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 6: future requests. Unquote. Somehow, the city is missing the point

1298
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 6: that this is the very reason the drone footage is

1299
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 6: being requested to learn the actual nature of this highly

1300
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:31,120
Speaker 6: influential drone first responder program that's being adopted across the country.

1301
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,599
Speaker 6: If the existence of this footage is such a massive

1302
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 6: privacy violation, that implies that the recording of said footage

1303
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 6: itself implicitly violates people's privacy, and the harder police fight

1304
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 6: to hide their sweeping collection of aerial footage, all the

1305
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 6: more suspicious this entire program seems.

1306
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 8: So.

1307
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 6: That is what I have to say about Chula Vista's

1308
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 6: drone first Responder program. In about a month and a half,

1309
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court of California will make their decision on

1310
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 6: whether or not they're going to hear this case. If

1311
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 6: they decline, then the precedent will be set statewide against

1312
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,959
Speaker 6: this exemption of the Public Records Act by hiding drone footage,

1313
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 6: so that will be really cool, and then hopefully within

1314
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 6: the next year, we'll finally be able to see what

1315
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,720
Speaker 6: some of this footage actually looks like, how good their

1316
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 6: cameras are, how much they can zoom in, all of

1317
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:23,919
Speaker 6: the details of how much of the city they're capturing,

1318
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 6: all this kind of stuff, how often the drones are

1319
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 6: in the air, all of those types of things that

1320
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 6: it will be easier to highlight once we can actually

1321
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 6: take a look at the footage. And I assume that

1322
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 6: going through and releasing requested files for one month will

1323
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,840
Speaker 6: probably end up not taking two hundred and thirty days.

1324
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 6: But I do know how the police love to love

1325
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 6: to stretch out these public records requests for as long

1326
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 6: as they can. As the request that this lawsuit stems from,

1327
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:52,320
Speaker 6: it's all the way back to April of twenty twenty one,

1328
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:56,839
Speaker 6: so hopefully, hopefully more than three years later, we'll finally

1329
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:01,600
Speaker 6: get a look. Special thanks to Laprenze for starting this

1330
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,759
Speaker 6: lawsuit and doing all of the hard work to actually

1331
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 6: force the police to be transparent. And if you want

1332
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 6: to read more, I'd recommend checking out the website to

1333
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 6: Leprenza dot org, as well as the MIT tech review piece,

1334
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 6: which provided some really really useful information to fill in

1335
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 6: the gaps between my own research. So yeah, thank you

1336
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 6: for listening to It could happen here. It certainly could

1337
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 6: happen here in terms of seeing more of these little

1338
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 6: fuckers flying around in the air. It's it could happen here.

1339
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 16: The podcast that's happening right now, this is maybe the

1340
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 16: foremost of the Putting Things Back Together episodes. I'm your

1341
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 16: host Miya Wong with me as James Stout guy.

1342
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:51,759
Speaker 17: He likes it to put things together.

1343
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 16: Yeah, And you know, on the subject of putting things

1344
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 16: together over the last I don't even know three four weeks,

1345
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:02,600
Speaker 16: the question I have been asked the most by everyone

1346
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 16: is how do I start organizing? And you know the

1347
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 16: problem with how do I start organizing is that it's

1348
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 16: not a question that has cleaner simple answers. Now, the

1349
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 16: most common answer you get is just join an org.

1350
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 16: And the problem is that most of the people who

1351
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,680
Speaker 16: you were hearing this from are already in an org

1352
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 16: and want you to join their org.

1353
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 17: Yeah. Also, the problem is a lot of the orgs

1354
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 17: that are currently dominating left to spaces in the in

1355
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 17: the United States are trash, yeah, and bad for people,

1356
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 17: bad people in them, bad people who are not in them.

1357
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1358
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 17: Here's a little test you can you can do, is

1359
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 17: your org currently sad that Basha a Lasad is no

1360
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 17: longer governing Syria? Because if that's the case, leave yep.

1361
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 17: And that's that's a lot of orgs that that's not me. Yeah,

1362
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,920
Speaker 17: that takes most of them right now. We'll come back

1363
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 17: to orgs in a bit. But what I'll say about

1364
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 17: orgs is that, Okay, if you know an organization in

1365
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 17: your area that you like and you think does good

1366
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 17: work and most importantly spends their time actually doing work

1367
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 17: instead of either in fighting or talking about doing work,

1368
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 17: you join them.

1369
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:08,719
Speaker 1: It will be good.

1370
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 16: But the important thing about organizations and is something we'll

1371
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 16: come back to you later. The important thing about organizations

1372
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 16: is they have a lot of people. Yeah, And the

1373
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 16: thing that makes organizing work is people. It's not organizations.

1374
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 16: It's not even necessarily ideological labels. It's there being a

1375
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:24,479
Speaker 16: bunch of people who you can use and who want

1376
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 16: to do things.

1377
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1378
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 16: But something I realized that the more I had these conversations, right,

1379
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 16: you know, I'm having them with friends, I'm having them

1380
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 16: with strangers, I'm having them with other organizers. And the

1381
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 16: more I had these conversations, the more I realize something

1382
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,679
Speaker 16: sort of startling you. The person listening to this almost

1383
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,640
Speaker 16: certainly already knows how to organize, but you don't know

1384
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 16: that that's called organizing.

1385
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 17: Yeah, that's a very good point.

1386
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 16: I have encountered some of the most stunning or I

1387
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 16: mean organizing that like I can't discuss the specifics of,

1388
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 16: but like some of the best organizing I've ever encountered.

1389
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 16: I have ran into you in the last three weeks

1390
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 16: from people who don't think that they're organizers and started

1391
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 16: talking to me about their stuff. I was like, what, Like,

1392
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,719
Speaker 16: people are winning victories that like the like hardcore committed

1393
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 16: organizers haven't been able to do in like thirty years. Yeah,

1394
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 16: and it's just by random people who don't think they

1395
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:16,679
Speaker 16: know how to do anything.

1396
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 17: Yeah, can I tell a little organizing story. We do

1397
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,600
Speaker 17: have time, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it. So

1398
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 17: I remember in like twenty eighteen, I am on a

1399
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 17: trip with a friend. We're coming back and we see

1400
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 17: the arrival of the migrant caravan, one of the migrant caravans,

1401
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 17: the one that everyone decided to have a fucking cow

1402
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 17: about right before the twenty eighteen mid terms. And at

1403
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,839
Speaker 17: that time, they were corraling the people of the migrant

1404
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 17: caravan in a baseball stadium in Tijuana, and like it

1405
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 17: was raining every day, So the baseball stadium ends up

1406
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 17: looking like the Battle of the Psalm after like a

1407
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 17: couple of days, right, you know, kids in leady mud

1408
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 17: and shit, and I particularly know what to do, but

1409
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,639
Speaker 17: evidently there were people there who were hungry and thirsty,

1410
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:56,719
Speaker 17: and so I get three of my friend my friends.

1411
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,840
Speaker 17: At this time, I was still making about half my

1412
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 17: many riding bicycles and in the other half riding so

1413
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 17: my friends and I was supposed to do a long

1414
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,600
Speaker 17: bike ride. All of us are people who make a

1415
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,800
Speaker 17: living riding bikes, right, we're not like expert organizers. And

1416
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 17: I was like, hey, guys, this is fucked. Which we do.

1417
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 17: We called a friend who has a company who makes waffles.

1418
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 17: Where we obtained like as many waffles as we could

1419
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 17: physically carry across the border. At that time, we weren't

1420
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 17: able to get in. We found a way to get in.

1421
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:29,759
Speaker 17: We began distributing the waffles. After that, we put something online,

1422
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 17: people sent us money, and we continued feeding people for months.

1423
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 17: None of us, I think, had a particular plan or

1424
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:38,440
Speaker 17: a scheduled. Yeah, it is a bit chaotic at times,

1425
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 17: but we were able to do that, and we're with

1426
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 17: a lot of other people. Clearly wasn't just us right,

1427
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 17: but we were able to process tenths of thousands of

1428
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 17: dollars and feed thousands of people. Be everyone there, And

1429
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 17: I've seen this countless times, especially working and organizing with

1430
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,240
Speaker 17: well with refugees. For the most part, people are so

1431
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 17: good at organizing each other in themselves. Like when we

1432
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 17: got there with bottles of water and food. There are

1433
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:04,800
Speaker 17: a thousand people that who have not had sometimes to

1434
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 17: drink for days, let alone more than a thousand, I think,

1435
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 17: let alone something hot to eat. Right, Everybody made sure

1436
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,400
Speaker 17: that the children and the sick people got what they

1437
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 17: needed first. Organizing is something that is very inherent in

1438
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,880
Speaker 17: us as people. It just we don't call it that.

1439
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:22,760
Speaker 16: Yeah, And that's part of what I want to try

1440
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 16: to the myth. I want to try to puncture with

1441
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 16: this because I think, particularly in the US, but this

1442
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 16: is true in a lot of places. There's this way

1443
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 16: in which the organizer sort of TM capital T capital O,

1444
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 16: the organizer gets held up as this sort of I guess,

1445
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:41,360
Speaker 16: even a particularly masculinist thing, which is it's this guy

1446
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:42,679
Speaker 16: with specialized knowledge.

1447
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's just not true.

1448
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:48,679
Speaker 16: This brings us something that I think is actually really important,

1449
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,160
Speaker 16: which is what what even is organizing?

1450
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 1: Right?

1451
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 16: And the answer is that most organizing is you get

1452
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 16: you get a group of people together, you get them

1453
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:00,599
Speaker 16: to show up to something, and then you do something right.

1454
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:04,559
Speaker 16: And the thing about this, right, that's something all of

1455
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 16: you know how to do. If you can organize a

1456
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:10,800
Speaker 16: dinner party, right, if you can get eight people to

1457
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,400
Speaker 16: show up to a place to eat dinner, you can

1458
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 16: do this. It is it is largely the same skill sets,

1459
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 16: and all of the skill sets that make people good

1460
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 16: organizers are skill sets that you have to develop to

1461
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:26,200
Speaker 16: you know, work a job right. You know, like one

1462
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 16: of the things that comes up a lot in this

1463
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 16: which is less discussed and also kind of annoying. But

1464
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 16: you know, you have to manage it is that organizing

1465
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 16: is about people and sometimes you have to you know,

1466
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 16: you have to do things like you have to manage

1467
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 16: people's egos. But like, I don't know, almost all of

1468
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 16: you work jobs or have work jobs, right, you have

1469
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 16: had to like deal with your boss being on one right,

1470
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:47,599
Speaker 16: you have the skills to do this. You know how

1471
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 16: to do the interpersonal relationship stuff. It's just that you

1472
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 16: don't think about that as organizing, even though that's that's

1473
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 16: just what it is.

1474
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 17: Yeah, that's the core of it is get people to

1475
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 17: do stuff like you do it every day.

1476
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:07,040
Speaker 16: Yeah, And the way you do this is by building

1477
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:10,120
Speaker 16: relationships with people, right, And this isn't necessarily friendships, although

1478
01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:12,680
Speaker 16: that works. And like, one of the easiest ways to

1479
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 16: start organizing is by getting all of your friends together

1480
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,080
Speaker 16: because you're already friends, you have pre existing relationships, and

1481
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 16: being like, Okay, motherfuckers, we gotta go do something. And

1482
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:24,479
Speaker 16: actually I love that The first thing that you brought

1483
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 16: up was an admittedly sort of medium ish scale lift

1484
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 16: version of this. But one of the very easiest things

1485
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:33,439
Speaker 16: that you can do is you can just get food

1486
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 16: of some kind. You can either buy it or you

1487
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 16: can make it yourself, and you and a group of

1488
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:40,559
Speaker 16: like eight people, not even eight people, you can do

1489
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:43,320
Speaker 16: it with lower I know people who've done this just solo.

1490
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 16: Is that you can just go give food to people. Yeah,

1491
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:48,280
Speaker 16: literally it was this morning.

1492
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 6: So I'm tired.

1493
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 17: Yesterday morning, I have some mine house neighbors, right and

1494
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:53,720
Speaker 17: it was cold, and so I went out and gave

1495
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:57,759
Speaker 17: them some hot breakfast, so hot coffee. It's super easy

1496
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 17: to do. If you are struggling wherever you are, maybe

1497
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 17: you're finding it hard to make friends. I know that's

1498
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,599
Speaker 17: the thing that people often struggle, especially if you've moved

1499
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 17: to a new place or post pandemic, or you're still

1500
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 17: concerned with Liuvede gatherings or any of those things. Like,

1501
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 17: if you start doing that, you will find other people

1502
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 17: who want to do it too, Like so many of

1503
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:19,400
Speaker 17: my friends I organize with are people Like when we

1504
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 17: had the end of Title forty two and people were

1505
01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 17: in between the fences that a lot of the people

1506
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 17: who I organize with now or who helped people with now,

1507
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 17: I didn't know. I just showed up with a giant

1508
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 17: sider generator that I happened to have and some stuff

1509
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 17: that we had to whip around a call zone for

1510
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 17: and like, people who care about the same things as

1511
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 17: you are generally cool and it's a good way to

1512
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 17: make friends, and then you can go on from there.

1513
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 16: Yeah, and there's a second compounding thing here too, which

1514
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:50,559
Speaker 16: is that you know, feeding people it's a way to

1515
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,679
Speaker 16: build relationships with people. And also it's a really good

1516
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 16: way for people to get to know you in general

1517
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:59,040
Speaker 16: and know that you are someone who will help them

1518
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:01,080
Speaker 16: with things. Yeah, and from there, and this is a

1519
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 16: very common exception. I mean this is I literally had

1520
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 16: this conversation with one of my friends who's like an

1521
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 16: old school food not Bombs organizer. Food Nut Bombs is

1522
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 16: a very very it's a cool organization. You can just

1523
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 16: like found a food nut Bobs chapter. They have like

1524
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 16: a couple of principles, or you can just do your

1525
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 16: own thing. And I'm pretty sure it's still like the

1526
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:22,680
Speaker 16: largest anarchist project in the world. Yeah, because all it

1527
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:25,360
Speaker 16: takes is you and like three other people and you

1528
01:30:25,479 --> 01:30:28,479
Speaker 16: just go feed people. But the thing is from doing that, right,

1529
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:30,880
Speaker 16: if there's other things that you're concerned about, people will

1530
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 16: bring you their problems and you can help them doing it.

1531
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:35,320
Speaker 16: And this is a very good way to get into

1532
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 16: other kinds of organizing because suddenly, once you start building

1533
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,760
Speaker 16: these relationships, everything sort of cycles and cycles, and you know,

1534
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 16: you get involved in more and more things. Yeah, and

1535
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 16: that's kind of a that's kind of a late stage

1536
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 16: thing that we're sort of jumping to a bit. But

1537
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 16: I want to go back to the beginnings of how so,

1538
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:54,160
Speaker 16: how do you get a group of people together to

1539
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:57,800
Speaker 16: do a thing? And the answer is you kind of

1540
01:30:57,920 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 16: already know how to because you you, presumably at some

1541
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,479
Speaker 16: point in your life, have like organized a group of

1542
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:08,439
Speaker 16: friends to go do something, right, Like I've gotten a

1543
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:11,120
Speaker 16: group of people together to go accomplish a task.

1544
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,880
Speaker 17: Yeah, and it could literally be anything, right like, yeah,

1545
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 17: if you've got some people to go to a bar,

1546
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:17,679
Speaker 17: you have the skills.

1547
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 16: One way I've been thinking about it recently and in

1548
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 16: my project is putting is thinking about it as like

1549
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 16: putting together a heist crew.

1550
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:29,639
Speaker 6: And Okay, I could vouch for this, right.

1551
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 16: The feeling of walking up to eight people and telling

1552
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:37,240
Speaker 16: them individually, I'm putting together a team and I want

1553
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 16: you it is. It feels you can just do it.

1554
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:43,360
Speaker 16: There is nothing stopping you. Nothing in the world can

1555
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 16: stop you from just walking up to your friend and going,

1556
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:49,320
Speaker 16: I'm putting together a team. And it feels exactly as

1557
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:51,719
Speaker 16: good as you think it would from a ice movie.

1558
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:52,759
Speaker 5: It rules.

1559
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:55,520
Speaker 6: It's so fun, amazing.

1560
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 16: Yeah, and and but this gets into also what kinds

1561
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:02,800
Speaker 16: of people you want to do right, because obviously you

1562
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:06,320
Speaker 16: know there's two vectors of this. There's on the one hand,

1563
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 16: you have the aspect of okay, who do you know, right,

1564
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:12,160
Speaker 16: And a lot of organizing is just about, here is

1565
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:15,400
Speaker 16: a problem, and I know someone who has some sort

1566
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:17,639
Speaker 16: of skill or resource that can that can help deal

1567
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:19,680
Speaker 16: with it, and you put people in touch with each other,

1568
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 16: and that's organizing. That's so much organizing is literally just hey,

1569
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:27,120
Speaker 16: like I have like a broken part of my car.

1570
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 16: I know someone who's like a car mechanic, right, and

1571
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,439
Speaker 16: you put them in touch and you have successfully organized people,

1572
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 16: and you have built relationships, and you have made all

1573
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 16: of the sort of social web that creates organizing, you've

1574
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 16: made it stronger. Yeah, it also just feels good because

1575
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:44,479
Speaker 16: you know and that that's an auxiliary benefit to all

1576
01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 16: of this is that it's a great It's a great

1577
01:32:46,120 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 16: way to sort of break break the isolation we're all under.

1578
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:54,599
Speaker 17: Yeah, I think the best solution for despair is I'm

1579
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:57,920
Speaker 17: thinking of a quotation here something that the busy bee

1580
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:00,760
Speaker 17: have no time for despair. But the thing that makes

1581
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:02,800
Speaker 17: me feel better about the world is that I have

1582
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 17: seen that people can fix massive problems with very few

1583
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 17: resources by just showing up. And like, I think, organizing

1584
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:15,559
Speaker 17: is what gives me, what allows me to enter this

1585
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:17,760
Speaker 17: period of time that we're entering into with a with

1586
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 17: a great deal more hope than I otherwise would have done.

1587
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 16: Yeah, and do you know what else will help you

1588
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 16: enter your situation?

1589
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:28,560
Speaker 17: Is it the products and services that support this podcast.

1590
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 16: I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but

1591
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 16: we are not in control of the length of the ads.

1592
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 1: They just do it.

1593
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:38,440
Speaker 6: We're sorry, here's.

1594
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:51,840
Speaker 1: A really long period of ads. I'm so sorry. We

1595
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 1: are back.

1596
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:55,400
Speaker 16: So I want to I want to return to my

1597
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:57,479
Speaker 16: highest creer if. I don't know if you're a D

1598
01:33:57,479 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 16: and D person, the other way you can think about

1599
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:00,840
Speaker 16: this is you're putting to either like a Dungeons and

1600
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 16: Dragons party or like an RPG party. And the way

1601
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,759
Speaker 16: you need to think about this is Okay, so you've

1602
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 16: picked a thing that you want to do.

1603
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 11: Right.

1604
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:11,240
Speaker 16: You see, you've seen something in the world that is

1605
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 16: bad and you figure it. You go, okay, I can

1606
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:15,559
Speaker 16: do this thing to solve it. And maybe and maybe

1607
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 16: that's you know, it's literally something as simple as feeding people.

1608
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:20,680
Speaker 16: Maybe that's you know, I want to start. I want

1609
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:22,920
Speaker 16: to start doing tenants organizing. I want to start because

1610
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:25,040
Speaker 16: my rent is too high, right, people are getting evicted.

1611
01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 16: I want to start doing like immigration defense.

1612
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 14: Yeah.

1613
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 16: And from there you make a list and that list

1614
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 16: is you know what you're interested in doing, and you

1615
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:38,920
Speaker 16: try to match what things need to be done with

1616
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:42,840
Speaker 16: people you know who have those skills. Yeah, and this

1617
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 16: is you know this, this is this is where you

1618
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:46,880
Speaker 16: release get into the higst things, right, because everyone has

1619
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 16: their sort of like highst role. Now, obviously, part of

1620
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:52,200
Speaker 16: this that you want is you want to create sort

1621
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 16: of balanced teams, right. You want people who have overlapping strengths,

1622
01:34:56,040 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 16: so you don't just have only one person who can

1623
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 16: do a thing. And part of the way to successful

1624
01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 16: organization works over time. And I mean just how successful

1625
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 16: organizing works is that eventually you are trying to organize

1626
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 16: yourself out of a job, which is to say, you

1627
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 16: want your organization to function such that if you're not

1628
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 16: able to do it, you know, or just you're gone,

1629
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 16: or you cycle onto a next thing, or you know,

1630
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 16: any any number of things that can happen. You want

1631
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:22,519
Speaker 16: the organization to still be able to keep working without you,

1632
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:24,160
Speaker 16: and you want you want you're trying to get people

1633
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:26,320
Speaker 16: to be able to replace you as the person who's

1634
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 16: like organizing the thing, right. Yeah, And at this point

1635
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:33,360
Speaker 16: we can start talking about the kinds of skills that

1636
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 16: people need for organizing, and a lot of people and

1637
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:39,599
Speaker 16: this is unbelievably common when I talk to people, and

1638
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:42,320
Speaker 16: like especially women and especially like a lot of non

1639
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 16: binary people and trans people particularly have this is that

1640
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 16: people don't believe that they have any skills. And then

1641
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 16: you talk to them for five seconds and they're like, well,

1642
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 16: I'm good at carrying heavy objects, right, I'm good with kids,

1643
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:57,920
Speaker 16: which is a huge one. We'll get you in a second, right,

1644
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:00,640
Speaker 16: Or like, I don't know, I have a call. That's

1645
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 16: a huge skill. There are so many different skills that

1646
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 16: are so useful for so many things. I'm just gonna

1647
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:08,439
Speaker 16: go over lots of things that are actually really useful

1648
01:36:08,479 --> 01:36:11,120
Speaker 16: to get to get people a sense of like the

1649
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:13,559
Speaker 16: kinds of things that there are. There are massive roles

1650
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:16,880
Speaker 16: for so one of the most important ones, and this

1651
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:19,160
Speaker 16: is something you can you deliberately look for. You know,

1652
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:20,519
Speaker 16: this is this is one of the things you do

1653
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 16: at the beginning of any union organizing campaign. Someone who's

1654
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:26,960
Speaker 16: good at talking to other people and making friends. That

1655
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:30,919
Speaker 16: is a staggeringly useful person because again, most most organizing

1656
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 16: is just talking to people and building relationships. And you know,

1657
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 16: one of the things you do when you're when you're

1658
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 16: doing your sort of they call it power mapping, but

1659
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:39,360
Speaker 16: when when you when you're figuring out how you're going

1660
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:42,240
Speaker 16: to organize a workplace is you find the person who

1661
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 16: everyone likes and talks to and respects, and you talk

1662
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:47,920
Speaker 16: to that person because that person can you know, can

1663
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:50,200
Speaker 16: sort of like organize people down the chain because they

1664
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:52,639
Speaker 16: have they have their relationships already and also they're good

1665
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:54,960
Speaker 16: they'll be good at, you know, talking to new people

1666
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 16: and and spreading your organization that way. And so, like,

1667
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 16: you know, if you're just someone who's social or and

1668
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:03,400
Speaker 16: this is also very useful if you have a friend

1669
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:05,439
Speaker 16: who is very social, because I know a lot of

1670
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:08,240
Speaker 16: us are oporary social. But you probably have a friend

1671
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 16: that you're thinking of right now who is very good

1672
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 16: at conversations that is charming and is good at making friendships.

1673
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:17,759
Speaker 16: That person unbelievably useful, incredibly useful and compelling skill.

1674
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:18,679
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1675
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:21,160
Speaker 16: There are also things like research people who are good

1676
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 16: at and I think people are much better at research

1677
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 16: than they think to take like a ten a's organizing example. Right,

1678
01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:28,160
Speaker 16: one of the common things you have to do is

1679
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 16: find out stuff about a landlord, right, Yeah, and there's

1680
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 16: the higher difficulty version of that, which isn't that hard. Also,

1681
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 16: I want to mention this, but like going to a

1682
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:41,920
Speaker 16: courthouse and finding records about who owns property companies that

1683
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 16: high it's not that hard. It's like you could just

1684
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 16: do it, right, It's not as hard as you think

1685
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:49,320
Speaker 16: it is from someone saying it. But there's also even

1686
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 16: just easier things than that, right, that all of you

1687
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 16: probably already know how to do, which is just looking

1688
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:57,160
Speaker 16: at someone's social media profiles and finding out information about them. Yeah,

1689
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,839
Speaker 16: and this is very useful, yeah, for like union campaign bosses.

1690
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:04,200
Speaker 17: If you've ever been a person who uses dating apps,

1691
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:07,400
Speaker 17: especially if you're a woman, Yeah, yeah, then you know

1692
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 17: how to ocin. Actually maybe you don't credit yourself with

1693
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:13,679
Speaker 17: that skill, but one hundred percent that like, you've developed

1694
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 17: that skill to keep yourself safe and you can use

1695
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:17,040
Speaker 17: it for good.

1696
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:18,760
Speaker 16: Do you want to explain what ocenter is?

1697
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 6: And yes? How that how that process works?

1698
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 15: Yeah?

1699
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 1: Sure?

1700
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:25,280
Speaker 17: So open source intelligence is it's an acreum doesn't really

1701
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:29,320
Speaker 17: need to exist. It's gathering information of open sources, things

1702
01:38:28,880 --> 01:38:31,759
Speaker 17: that are openly accessible, right as opposed to like humint,

1703
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:34,640
Speaker 17: which is like being a spy, or singint, which is

1704
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,680
Speaker 17: capturing signals. Open source information is you're creeping someone's Instagram,

1705
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:42,160
Speaker 17: creeping their Facebook, looking at the weird fucking shit that

1706
01:38:42,200 --> 01:38:43,439
Speaker 17: they put on good Reads.

1707
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:43,720
Speaker 1: Right.

1708
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 17: All the data that is out there, largely on the Internet,

1709
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 17: about us. A lot of people put a lot of

1710
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:52,920
Speaker 17: information on the Internet, and it's very easy. And I

1711
01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 17: would imagine that if you're under fifty and maybe if

1712
01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 17: you're over fifty two, like you just know how to

1713
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:01,040
Speaker 17: do this because it's what you do anyway you want

1714
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:04,640
Speaker 17: to find out about someone, And especially if you are

1715
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:06,599
Speaker 17: a person who goes on dates with people who you

1716
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:08,720
Speaker 17: haven't met before and haven't been introduced to by a

1717
01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 17: mutual friend, but you meet on the internet, you probably

1718
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 17: already do this to keep yourself safe.

1719
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, and this is something that's very useful for I mean,

1720
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:18,439
Speaker 16: there's so many use cases for this, right There's you know,

1721
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:20,760
Speaker 16: there's the very obvious ones where you're dealing with the

1722
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,320
Speaker 16: local Nazi and you're trying to organize around like running

1723
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 16: them out. People say from them and you can find

1724
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 16: information about them. But I mean, it's useful for cops

1725
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:32,080
Speaker 16: who are beating people. Is useful for like politicians particularly,

1726
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 16: It can be very useful for it's useful for landlords.

1727
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:37,760
Speaker 16: This happens all the time. It can be very very

1728
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:42,280
Speaker 16: useful for bosses and union campaigns. Unions have like teams

1729
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,200
Speaker 16: of researchers usually to like do this kind of stuff.

1730
01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 16: But the thing is also and this is something I

1731
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:49,880
Speaker 16: don't think people understand. Those guys, like the people they're

1732
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:52,559
Speaker 16: hiring to be researchers are just you, but they got

1733
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:54,920
Speaker 16: a job being a researcher for a union. Like they

1734
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:56,680
Speaker 16: have the same skills as you. They know how to

1735
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 16: like Google stuff, and they know how to look through

1736
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:02,479
Speaker 16: people's like data profiles and like look through their their

1737
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:06,040
Speaker 16: facebooks and their Instagrams and like A big one, A

1738
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 16: big one that that the rich people especially do not

1739
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:14,160
Speaker 16: think about, is like cash app and venmo oh venop

1740
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:17,240
Speaker 16: because yeah, yeah, because because people's peoples trying, people just

1741
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 16: leave public transactions out there like that. That's how they

1742
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:23,080
Speaker 16: got what's his name, the congressional magates. Can I legally

1743
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:25,760
Speaker 16: call him the congressional pedophile? I guess they call him

1744
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 16: the accused pedophile?

1745
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:30,559
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, the man credibly accused of sleeping with an

1746
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 17: underage woman lots of times, you know.

1747
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:34,760
Speaker 16: And one of the ways they found that was that

1748
01:40:34,920 --> 01:40:38,240
Speaker 16: and also like paying paying for that right, yes, which

1749
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:39,640
Speaker 16: is which is rape. By the way, I want to

1750
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 16: be very clear about that, like, yeah, having sex with

1751
01:40:42,240 --> 01:40:43,679
Speaker 16: someone who is underage is rape.

1752
01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 6: It is always rape, you know.

1753
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:46,840
Speaker 16: And the way people found that was that they just

1754
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,519
Speaker 16: looked through like his cash app history and they found

1755
01:40:49,560 --> 01:40:52,920
Speaker 16: all of these money transfers to people. You know, this

1756
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:55,880
Speaker 16: is all very very simple stuff. That's that's very very

1757
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:59,040
Speaker 16: useful organizing wise, that you already know.

1758
01:40:59,000 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 1: How to do.

1759
01:41:00,160 --> 01:41:00,400
Speaker 15: Yeah.

1760
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:03,720
Speaker 17: Pinterest is another absolute back to people. Yeah, so much

1761
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:06,679
Speaker 17: people on a pinning that they be pinning.

1762
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:09,360
Speaker 16: You know, if if you're hearing some of these things

1763
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:12,400
Speaker 16: and you think that you can figure out how to

1764
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:15,720
Speaker 16: do this. That's also a huge skill. Finding people who

1765
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:18,360
Speaker 16: are willing to learn things and willing to learn new

1766
01:41:18,439 --> 01:41:23,200
Speaker 16: skills is a huge benefit to organizers because you know this,

1767
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:25,920
Speaker 16: this gives you, Like, this gives you a flexible person, right,

1768
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:27,920
Speaker 16: it gives it gives you someone you can like flex

1769
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 16: into into any of a bunch of roles that you need.

1770
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:33,280
Speaker 16: And also can you know, pick up skills to learn things.

1771
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:36,360
Speaker 16: Having a car, being able to drive, and I know

1772
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:37,720
Speaker 16: a lot of you don't do this, but if you

1773
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 16: do do this, this is you immediately, even if you

1774
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:43,599
Speaker 16: literally cannot contribute anything else to a project. Being able

1775
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:46,160
Speaker 16: to just drive a bunch of water to a place,

1776
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:48,479
Speaker 16: oh yeah, huge, staggeringly useful.

1777
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:51,320
Speaker 17: The amount of things that people can't access because they

1778
01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:55,519
Speaker 17: can't get there, it's vast, especially when I when I

1779
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:57,880
Speaker 17: talk to migrants, right, have recently arrived in the US.

1780
01:41:57,880 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 17: They don't have a US cell phone, they can't uber.

1781
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:00,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1782
01:42:01,160 --> 01:42:04,519
Speaker 17: Oftentimes nowadays you can't even pay for mass transit with cash.

1783
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 17: You have to have a special card and then you

1784
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:08,639
Speaker 17: have to get to the place to get the card. Right.

1785
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,240
Speaker 17: The problems you can solve by being able to drive

1786
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:15,599
Speaker 17: someone five miles are enormous, especially in the US where

1787
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:18,760
Speaker 17: everything is designed around everyone owning a motor car at

1788
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 17: all times.

1789
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:19,679
Speaker 5: Yep.

1790
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 16: Yeah, And like transport based skills are also very useful.

1791
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:27,040
Speaker 16: I mean, if you hike a lot, that's a very

1792
01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:29,960
Speaker 16: very useful skill. There's a lot of sort of mutual

1793
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:31,599
Speaker 16: aid projects. There's a lot of you know, I mean

1794
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:33,920
Speaker 16: even things like setting up summer camps is the thing

1795
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:36,680
Speaker 16: that like leftist groups do right, and being able to

1796
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:38,360
Speaker 16: hike very good for that. It's good for things like

1797
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:40,400
Speaker 16: wilderness rescue. There's a lot of you know, the jams,

1798
01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:42,000
Speaker 16: like the work you do that has to do with

1799
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 16: like going in helping migrants. Like being able to hike

1800
01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:48,160
Speaker 16: is staggeringly useful skill.

1801
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:52,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, it's very like, it's useful, it's important. It's

1802
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 17: okay if that's not something you can physically do or

1803
01:42:55,080 --> 01:42:56,680
Speaker 17: you know that that works for the way you like

1804
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,040
Speaker 17: to live your life. Like another thing I was thinking

1805
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:02,080
Speaker 17: of which can be mass important and people don't realize

1806
01:43:02,240 --> 01:43:04,599
Speaker 17: is if you know how to take off a tail

1807
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 17: light and replace the bulb in it. Yes, Like we're

1808
01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:11,320
Speaker 17: entering a time when people with DAKA, people with TPS.

1809
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:14,439
Speaker 17: People who are undocumented, people are on temporary migration statuses

1810
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:16,800
Speaker 17: are going to be definitely afraid of any interaction with

1811
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:21,960
Speaker 17: law enforcement. If you can change the bulb on someone's

1812
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:24,920
Speaker 17: tail light or their turn signal indicators of US in

1813
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:28,840
Speaker 17: the UK, then you can meaningfully protect that person in

1814
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 17: a really important way. And it can literally take ten minutes.

1815
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:35,439
Speaker 16: And this is something that you can scale up depending

1816
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:38,080
Speaker 16: on how much skill you have. Right, there's even just

1817
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 16: very basic auto maintenance stuff is very useful for stuff

1818
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:44,599
Speaker 16: like this. But you know, like if you're a carpenter, right,

1819
01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 16: if you're an electrician, you do some kind of trade work, right,

1820
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:50,200
Speaker 16: you do plumbing, right, That is the thing that is

1821
01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 16: massively useful to a lot of people. There's a lot

1822
01:43:54,120 --> 01:43:56,639
Speaker 16: of other kind of just skills that you have from

1823
01:43:56,720 --> 01:43:59,200
Speaker 16: your job that can be very useful. I mean, having

1824
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 16: someone to manage spreadsheet, oh yeah, yeah, is staggeringly useful.

1825
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:06,840
Speaker 16: And another one that I think people don't understand that

1826
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 16: they really have, but like being able to set up

1827
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:14,559
Speaker 16: a meeting and like having a thing that lets you

1828
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:18,599
Speaker 16: be like, okay, here's when everyone is free. Like you

1829
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 16: probably have to do this for your job or just

1830
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:23,559
Speaker 16: for you know, trying to get your friends to go

1831
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:27,000
Speaker 16: even just like be on a call together or like

1832
01:44:27,200 --> 01:44:32,160
Speaker 16: go have food or like just do anything. That is

1833
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:35,160
Speaker 16: what literally, genuinely one of the most important skills you

1834
01:44:35,160 --> 01:44:37,320
Speaker 16: can possibly have as an organizer is the ability to

1835
01:44:37,400 --> 01:44:39,679
Speaker 16: just sort of like go talk to people and be like, hey,

1836
01:44:39,720 --> 01:44:41,160
Speaker 16: can you show up to this thing here?

1837
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1838
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:44,160
Speaker 16: And that is that is so much of just what

1839
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 16: organizing is. Can you be here at this time? And

1840
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:48,920
Speaker 16: then trying to figure out a time.

1841
01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:49,919
Speaker 17: Yeah.

1842
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:51,679
Speaker 16: So we're going to close out this sort of skill

1843
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:53,919
Speaker 16: section with some I think just sort of like domestic

1844
01:44:53,960 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 16: ese skills that I don't think people realize are super useful.

1845
01:44:57,720 --> 01:44:59,800
Speaker 16: If you have a button maker, you are instantly the

1846
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:02,160
Speaker 16: same most useful person in any organization.

1847
01:45:02,560 --> 01:45:03,040
Speaker 1: I love that.

1848
01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:06,120
Speaker 16: Yeah, well, you could obtain a button maker. They're very

1849
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 16: easy to use. But if you have one or you

1850
01:45:09,560 --> 01:45:11,799
Speaker 16: know the person who has the button maker, and suddenly

1851
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:14,080
Speaker 16: you can just crank out buttons for every single event

1852
01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:18,080
Speaker 16: they rule. Everyone loves them. It helps, It helps me enormously.

1853
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:19,320
Speaker 16: It's awesome.

1854
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:24,639
Speaker 17: That's a badge for those us in the Commonwealth. Also,

1855
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:26,800
Speaker 17: if you have a sewing machine, Yeah, I was about

1856
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:28,479
Speaker 17: to mention that, yeah, yeah, you're a hero.

1857
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:28,920
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1858
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:31,120
Speaker 17: One of my friends recently made me a little patch

1859
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:34,479
Speaker 17: and it's really cool and I like it and putting

1860
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:37,679
Speaker 17: all my stuff. But if you can sew, like, that's

1861
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:40,880
Speaker 17: a skill that I do not have. And it's so

1862
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:45,559
Speaker 17: great when people can fix stuff for someone or you know,

1863
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 17: make stuff fit someone. You know, if you're a person

1864
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 17: who finds it hard to get clothes that you like

1865
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:52,760
Speaker 17: to wear that make you feel good and someone one

1866
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,360
Speaker 17: of my friends could do that. And one of my

1867
01:45:55,400 --> 01:46:00,920
Speaker 17: friends was making clothes for another friend for like a

1868
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:03,639
Speaker 17: renaissance fair, and like it was the nicest thing I've

1869
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:05,840
Speaker 17: seen someone do for someone else in a very long time.

1870
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:10,880
Speaker 17: It really made her like, yeah, feel like nice and

1871
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:13,559
Speaker 17: cared for. And like you might think that like this

1872
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:14,800
Speaker 17: is just a weird little thing that you like to

1873
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:17,599
Speaker 17: do with your sewing machine, but you can meaningfully really

1874
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:19,360
Speaker 17: make someone feel cared for using that.

1875
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:22,840
Speaker 16: Yeah, And that's a huge part of what organizing is right,

1876
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:25,120
Speaker 16: and and that that goes into one of the things

1877
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:28,479
Speaker 16: that is also an appreciable skill that's very useful, is

1878
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 16: I mean just like being nice to people, being kind

1879
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:34,439
Speaker 16: to people, and having people around who are good at

1880
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:38,360
Speaker 16: like keeping groups together. Yeah, and that's its own distinct

1881
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:41,280
Speaker 16: kind of person is someone who can you know, keep

1882
01:46:41,360 --> 01:46:43,479
Speaker 16: all of the people who are involved in a thing

1883
01:46:44,200 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 16: enjoying being around each other. That's that's that's a kind

1884
01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:49,479
Speaker 16: of person who's very valuable. And it's something that you

1885
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:51,559
Speaker 16: can look for, you know. And if that's not you,

1886
01:46:51,600 --> 01:46:53,639
Speaker 16: like you can there's something you can you know, find

1887
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:55,160
Speaker 16: in your friends. You can find in the sort of

1888
01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:55,920
Speaker 16: the people around you.

1889
01:46:56,760 --> 01:46:57,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, definitely.

1890
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:01,160
Speaker 16: There's also something that I think you can tell when

1891
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:04,120
Speaker 16: an organization is collapsing, because this is like the first

1892
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:07,599
Speaker 16: thing with the quality drops drawing and graphic design are

1893
01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:10,040
Speaker 16: very very useful because a big part of what you

1894
01:47:10,080 --> 01:47:12,800
Speaker 16: do organizing is like you make a flyer and you

1895
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:14,800
Speaker 16: put a flyer on a bunch of telephone poles to

1896
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:18,840
Speaker 16: tell people that there's a thing happening. Yea, and yeah,

1897
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:21,000
Speaker 16: you know, and this is also something you know later

1898
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:23,200
Speaker 16: on you might be making a social media presence, but

1899
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 16: just having good artists and having good graphic design people

1900
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:31,400
Speaker 16: is enormously useful for this kind of stuff. Yeah, And

1901
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:34,679
Speaker 16: along this line, these things like making music and there's

1902
01:47:34,680 --> 01:47:36,160
Speaker 16: a bunch of different ways this can go this can

1903
01:47:36,200 --> 01:47:38,120
Speaker 16: be an immediate thing where you know, like you have

1904
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:40,559
Speaker 16: people on a picket line, right and everyone's singing songs

1905
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:43,200
Speaker 16: and this is great. We love this also, and this

1906
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:45,040
Speaker 16: is another thing that you can be thinking about in

1907
01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:46,960
Speaker 16: terms of what skills you have and what things you

1908
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:50,559
Speaker 16: can create benefit shows. This has been a huge part

1909
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:52,240
Speaker 16: of a lot of how some of the Union stuff

1910
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:54,599
Speaker 16: up here has been getting funded is by just having

1911
01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:57,320
Speaker 16: like punk benefit shows. And if that's the thing that

1912
01:47:57,360 --> 01:47:59,439
Speaker 16: you can do, well, you know, people in bands, you

1913
01:47:59,479 --> 01:48:01,160
Speaker 16: know people who make music, you know people who just

1914
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:04,240
Speaker 16: make stuff who are willing to contribute it to the cause,

1915
01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:06,080
Speaker 16: that's great.

1916
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:09,680
Speaker 17: I remember one of we had one night last September

1917
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:11,720
Speaker 17: so cold. We were in the desert and I'm like

1918
01:48:12,200 --> 01:48:15,000
Speaker 17: a thousand people, right, and we were at that point

1919
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:17,000
Speaker 17: we were really struggling to feed everyone, even you know,

1920
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:18,880
Speaker 17: because there was so few of us. But my friend

1921
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:21,880
Speaker 17: bought out like their guitar and some bongo drums they had,

1922
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:23,679
Speaker 17: and I think I had my harmonica in my truck,

1923
01:48:24,439 --> 01:48:27,840
Speaker 17: and like we were sitting around with these. We had

1924
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:31,240
Speaker 17: some seek guys, had some Weiga folks come from China,

1925
01:48:31,439 --> 01:48:33,400
Speaker 17: and then some Kourdish people and they were all displaying

1926
01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:37,760
Speaker 17: their different music and it was so nice like that,

1927
01:48:38,200 --> 01:48:40,559
Speaker 17: taking people out of a shitty situation for a moment

1928
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:43,439
Speaker 17: with music. Again, like, don't underestimate how important that it.

1929
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:45,160
Speaker 17: Don't feel like if you have that skill, it's not

1930
01:48:45,200 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 17: a useful one.

1931
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,720
Speaker 16: No, And this is something I've been starting to say

1932
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,519
Speaker 16: more and more. If you need a three brained way

1933
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:55,440
Speaker 16: to say this to someone who like is is like

1934
01:48:55,120 --> 01:49:00,360
Speaker 16: a curmudgety marksist who hates fun. Moral is it terrain

1935
01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:03,360
Speaker 16: of struggle that this is. There's a reason why morale

1936
01:49:03,479 --> 01:49:06,480
Speaker 16: is one of the most important factors of military campaigns.

1937
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:08,720
Speaker 16: You can't get people to do things if they're too

1938
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:11,320
Speaker 16: depressed to do it. Yeah, And being able to raise

1939
01:49:11,360 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 16: people's morale, it's it's this massive if you want again,

1940
01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:17,160
Speaker 16: want to go into technical language, is a massive force

1941
01:49:17,240 --> 01:49:20,679
Speaker 16: multiplayer right, It makes everyone you have enormously more effective,

1942
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 16: the better they feel about themselves and the better they

1943
01:49:22,520 --> 01:49:26,240
Speaker 16: feel about the situation they're in. And things like music,

1944
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:29,479
Speaker 16: things like art, I mean things like pulling pranks.

1945
01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:32,439
Speaker 6: This thing, yeah, if you were, if.

1946
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:35,960
Speaker 16: You were a good practical jokester, this is a staggeringly

1947
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:38,920
Speaker 16: useful skill. Both like in terms of you know, you

1948
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:41,160
Speaker 16: need to be careful about whether you're you're playing your

1949
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:43,080
Speaker 16: pranks on like other people in the org. But like

1950
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:46,240
Speaker 16: you know, if you know how to just like pull pranks,

1951
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:50,040
Speaker 16: this is a really really useful thing in like union campaigns,

1952
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:53,000
Speaker 16: tenants organizing. There are a lot of people who you

1953
01:49:53,040 --> 01:49:56,160
Speaker 16: can prank and it's very funny and it lowers their

1954
01:49:56,200 --> 01:49:57,920
Speaker 16: morale and it raises your morale.

1955
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:00,840
Speaker 17: Yeah, and I can bet to you music as are

1956
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 17: like like morale is a terrain of struggle. Like the

1957
01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:05,760
Speaker 17: other memory I have last year of playing guitars is

1958
01:50:06,360 --> 01:50:10,719
Speaker 17: in Rajava, being inside at night because everyone was getting

1959
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:13,519
Speaker 17: drone struck all the time and it was dangerous to

1960
01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:17,400
Speaker 17: be driving around, sitting around with some ZD friends and

1961
01:50:17,479 --> 01:50:19,720
Speaker 17: like we spent all night playing the ood, which is

1962
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:22,880
Speaker 17: like a it's like a guitar with a gord on

1963
01:50:22,920 --> 01:50:25,280
Speaker 17: the bottom of it. To describe it, like it's a

1964
01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:27,400
Speaker 17: string instrument. It's a string instrument, is what it is.

1965
01:50:27,800 --> 01:50:31,639
Speaker 17: And like that made everyone so happy. We had such

1966
01:50:31,640 --> 01:50:35,400
Speaker 17: a nice evening. Everyone was able to like get through

1967
01:50:35,439 --> 01:50:38,519
Speaker 17: it's a relatively difficult thing. Like, you know, it sucks

1968
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:41,439
Speaker 17: that people are being killed and just for driving around

1969
01:50:41,479 --> 01:50:43,960
Speaker 17: are existing, and they're bombing all this c really infrastructure,

1970
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:46,599
Speaker 17: and the power keeps going out and all these things, right, like,

1971
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:50,160
Speaker 17: but there's a reason that those people have kept ood

1972
01:50:50,240 --> 01:50:54,320
Speaker 17: around after fifteen thirteen years of war, and it's because

1973
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:56,760
Speaker 17: it is important, and so don't overlook that.

1974
01:50:57,439 --> 01:51:00,360
Speaker 16: And you know, and resisting fear is in a huge

1975
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 16: aspect of this, right, A lot of the ways that

1976
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:06,360
Speaker 16: people like a lot of the ways that you demobilize people.

1977
01:51:06,479 --> 01:51:09,040
Speaker 16: This is, this is why regimes like this spend a

1978
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:11,600
Speaker 16: lot of effort trying to make people afraid. He is

1979
01:51:11,600 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 16: that it makes it harder for you to act. And

1980
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,639
Speaker 16: things that you know, the things that make you less afraid,

1981
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:20,680
Speaker 16: even if they sort of seem silly, are very very important.

1982
01:51:21,200 --> 01:51:23,120
Speaker 16: And you know, on sort of this note, one of

1983
01:51:23,120 --> 01:51:25,320
Speaker 16: the things that you know, as you've assembled your group

1984
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:27,960
Speaker 16: of people, right, one of the things that that that's

1985
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:30,920
Speaker 16: important to be able to sort of have a grasp

1986
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:34,920
Speaker 16: on is that you can't just do organizing by having

1987
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:39,520
Speaker 16: it only be the capital, the serious thing, the captialty

1988
01:51:39,880 --> 01:51:42,479
Speaker 16: organizing thing all the time. Your organization will not hold together.

1989
01:51:42,920 --> 01:51:47,160
Speaker 16: There has to be actual like bonds formed between you

1990
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:49,080
Speaker 16: and the people you're organizing. With and the people you're

1991
01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:49,679
Speaker 16: trying to help.

1992
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:52,599
Speaker 17: I don't want to call out any organization in particular,

1993
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:56,240
Speaker 17: there is an organization that perceives organizing to exist solely

1994
01:51:56,240 --> 01:51:58,320
Speaker 17: in the realm of wearing a high based vest and

1995
01:51:58,360 --> 01:52:01,120
Speaker 17: carrying a clipboard and getting people to write their email

1996
01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:05,160
Speaker 17: addresses down and then telling them to attend things. And

1997
01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:07,519
Speaker 17: like maybe there are several organizations like that.

1998
01:52:07,560 --> 01:52:08,000
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1999
01:52:08,080 --> 01:52:10,640
Speaker 17: I've just I've perceived one locally. If you don't have

2000
01:52:10,760 --> 01:52:16,719
Speaker 17: those bonds that like those interpersonal relationships, like these things

2001
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:20,879
Speaker 17: won't hang together. Like yeah, So many of my happiest

2002
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:23,920
Speaker 17: organizing memories, like again going down James's memory Lane, I

2003
01:52:23,960 --> 01:52:27,920
Speaker 17: guess I have a memory of like Christmas Eve last year,

2004
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:30,639
Speaker 17: twenty twenty three, me and my friends have been out.

2005
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:32,400
Speaker 17: I know some of them listen because some of them

2006
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:34,320
Speaker 17: have come across from different states to help us at

2007
01:52:34,439 --> 01:52:37,960
Speaker 17: Christmas Holidays, which is nice. And it was cold, and

2008
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:40,679
Speaker 17: we had been feeding people all day, and then we'd

2009
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:42,960
Speaker 17: heard some people in another location that we'd gone to find,

2010
01:52:43,320 --> 01:52:44,800
Speaker 17: and then we got to the end of the day

2011
01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:47,280
Speaker 17: and like, rather than just going home, I had a

2012
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:50,559
Speaker 17: bunch of we had some MRIs left the refugee emory

2013
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:52,760
Speaker 17: sort of vegan. Lots of us are vegan, so we

2014
01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:54,759
Speaker 17: were like, we're not going to find any other vegan

2015
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 17: food in the middle of nowhere out here, so we'll

2016
01:52:56,400 --> 01:52:59,840
Speaker 17: set around eating the little vegan MREs and like just

2017
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:04,480
Speaker 17: talking and like sharing some thoughts and things we experience

2018
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:07,439
Speaker 17: over the last months of doing this, And like, it's

2019
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:11,400
Speaker 17: those moments that make you're organizing groups so much stronger.

2020
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:14,439
Speaker 17: No one's telling anyone to do anything, you know, there's

2021
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:17,160
Speaker 17: genuine bonds and that the love and friendship we build

2022
01:53:17,240 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 17: up between each other doing things that are very important.

2023
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:24,719
Speaker 17: Don't overlook the value of those because it's extremely valuable.

2024
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:27,600
Speaker 16: And this is something that I think you can understand

2025
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:31,439
Speaker 16: in your own life pretty easily, where Okay, if a

2026
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,040
Speaker 16: random person on the street walks up to you and

2027
01:53:34,120 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 16: tells you to go do something, are you going to

2028
01:53:36,120 --> 01:53:36,519
Speaker 16: do it?

2029
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:38,439
Speaker 6: It's like no, why? No?

2030
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:41,760
Speaker 16: Probably not, Like I don't know, Maybe it's something like

2031
01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:45,200
Speaker 16: really sort of, hey, there's children in a burning building.

2032
01:53:45,200 --> 01:53:46,880
Speaker 16: We're going to run in and grab them, but like

2033
01:53:47,360 --> 01:53:50,280
Speaker 16: the odds are no, you're going to ignore them. But

2034
01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:52,400
Speaker 16: if your friend goes and tells you to do the

2035
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:55,320
Speaker 16: same thing, and you know you've been friends with them

2036
01:53:55,400 --> 01:53:57,280
Speaker 16: for a long time and you really care about them,

2037
01:53:57,400 --> 01:53:59,719
Speaker 16: the odds of you doing it are much much higher.

2038
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:03,760
Speaker 16: And that's that's all organizing is. It's finding ways to

2039
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:06,000
Speaker 16: You have a thing to do, and you go talk

2040
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:08,240
Speaker 16: to people and you ask if they want to help

2041
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:11,040
Speaker 16: you do it. Yeah, And the stronger your relationships are,

2042
01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 16: the more lucky that is to happen. And that's why

2043
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:15,840
Speaker 16: it's very important to do things like you know, just

2044
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:18,960
Speaker 16: like having potlucks, like bringing snacks to meetings. Oh yeah,

2045
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:21,400
Speaker 16: and like you know, even if you're doing a potlucks,

2046
01:54:21,439 --> 01:54:23,959
Speaker 16: it's good to you know, you do like one capital

2047
01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:26,840
Speaker 16: capital T organizing thing, right, you get like a little

2048
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:29,080
Speaker 16: bit of work done, but mostly everyone's just sort of

2049
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:31,320
Speaker 16: relaxing and eating chili or whatever.

2050
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:35,120
Speaker 17: Yeah, if you're a baker, you know you can bay people.

2051
01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:36,840
Speaker 17: It's a wonderful thing to shut god.

2052
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:37,640
Speaker 11: Yes.

2053
01:54:38,280 --> 01:54:38,480
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2054
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:40,640
Speaker 16: And just knowing how to cook. I realized I forgot

2055
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:42,480
Speaker 16: to mention this one. Knowing how to cook is a

2056
01:54:42,760 --> 01:54:47,120
Speaker 16: staggeringly useful skill and it's useful in literally every literally

2057
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:49,000
Speaker 16: any kind of organizing you can possibly be.

2058
01:54:49,080 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 6: And it is a thing.

2059
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:52,080
Speaker 16: It is a skill that is useful in like it's

2060
01:54:52,120 --> 01:54:55,880
Speaker 16: useful in war zones. It's useful like literally, no matter

2061
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:58,800
Speaker 16: what organization you are in, if you can cook for people,

2062
01:54:59,080 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 16: oh yeah, and you don't even and you don't have

2063
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:02,400
Speaker 16: to be like a good cook. It's just like you

2064
01:55:02,400 --> 01:55:04,920
Speaker 16: can show up with food that you have made. You

2065
01:55:05,240 --> 01:55:07,760
Speaker 16: have instantly made this whole thing more successful.

2066
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,680
Speaker 17: Yeah, definitely, Like I've had some wonderful meals in water

2067
01:55:11,760 --> 01:55:14,680
Speaker 17: and and I've deeply appreciated those people. More broadly though,

2068
01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:18,680
Speaker 17: those ties like the way we organize without the state.

2069
01:55:18,920 --> 01:55:22,200
Speaker 17: The reason I believe that that is the way we

2070
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:24,440
Speaker 17: should organize and the way we will continue to organize

2071
01:55:24,440 --> 01:55:26,200
Speaker 17: in a way that we can make the state irrelevant

2072
01:55:26,640 --> 01:55:30,320
Speaker 17: is because we understand each other as people and care

2073
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,280
Speaker 17: about each other as people, and then we approach our

2074
01:55:33,400 --> 01:55:36,960
Speaker 17: organizing holistically, right with everyone in it, knowing this person

2075
01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:39,520
Speaker 17: is good at this, but they're struggling with this right now,

2076
01:55:39,600 --> 01:55:41,040
Speaker 17: and I care about them, so I'm not going to

2077
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:43,960
Speaker 17: make them do that right now. That is how we

2078
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:47,320
Speaker 17: can build sustainable communities in a way that state cannot

2079
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:51,600
Speaker 17: and in a way that capitalism cannot. Right, because fucking hurts,

2080
01:55:51,640 --> 01:55:56,720
Speaker 17: rent a car doesn't care or know about its employees

2081
01:55:56,800 --> 01:55:59,160
Speaker 17: in a way that we who organize with people and

2082
01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:03,160
Speaker 17: care and I love one anob do and like that's

2083
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:07,160
Speaker 17: why our organizations will always be stronger than those created

2084
01:56:07,160 --> 01:56:08,320
Speaker 17: by capitalism of the state.

2085
01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:11,360
Speaker 16: Yeah, unfortunately, speaking of capitalism of the state, we're taking

2086
01:56:11,360 --> 01:56:12,680
Speaker 16: our last ad break, would you.

2087
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:15,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, hopefully it's a torndica.

2088
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 6: We are back.

2089
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 16: So I want to wrap things up by doing a

2090
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:32,520
Speaker 16: couple of doing a few things. I want to talk

2091
01:56:32,560 --> 01:56:35,640
Speaker 16: about some kind of basic organizing things that you're going

2092
01:56:35,680 --> 01:56:37,600
Speaker 16: to have to do that are not very difficult but

2093
01:56:37,680 --> 01:56:40,200
Speaker 16: are extremely important. And second, I want to talk a

2094
01:56:40,240 --> 01:56:43,120
Speaker 16: bit about how we did the first organizing project that

2095
01:56:43,160 --> 01:56:46,760
Speaker 16: I ever was involved in, which was tenants organizing, Because

2096
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:50,760
Speaker 16: it's really not that hard, right, if you just go

2097
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:54,000
Speaker 16: do the thing, it will happen. Yeah, and suddenly it

2098
01:56:54,080 --> 01:56:57,000
Speaker 16: ceases to be this like, oh, this domain of expert

2099
01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:59,080
Speaker 16: knowledge and there's like, oh, this is a really difficult thing.

2100
01:56:59,120 --> 01:57:00,920
Speaker 16: If you just I don't know, you go give food

2101
01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:04,000
Speaker 16: to someone and suddenly you've done that and it's happened.

2102
01:57:05,880 --> 01:57:10,000
Speaker 16: So there are things that are important to like basic

2103
01:57:10,120 --> 01:57:14,480
Speaker 16: organizing stuff, knowing how to book rooms from like churches,

2104
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:19,160
Speaker 16: from libraries, from whatever meeting spaces, and also knowing how

2105
01:57:19,160 --> 01:57:23,520
Speaker 16: to book rooms in places that like accommodate disabilities is

2106
01:57:23,560 --> 01:57:26,520
Speaker 16: a huge thing because a lot of people book meetings

2107
01:57:26,520 --> 01:57:29,800
Speaker 16: in places are a wheelchair accessible and it's a fucking fiasco.

2108
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 16: And you can avoid that very easily, but you have

2109
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:35,360
Speaker 16: to put a little tiny bit of work into it.

2110
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:35,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2111
01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:37,920
Speaker 17: Literally, I reached out to a friend to book a

2112
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:40,760
Speaker 17: room last night because I knew they would get at

2113
01:57:40,760 --> 01:57:41,200
Speaker 17: that stuff.

2114
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:44,160
Speaker 16: Yeah, you know, there's arranging people's schedules, getting people show

2115
01:57:44,200 --> 01:57:46,120
Speaker 16: up for stuff, things you can do to prepare if

2116
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:49,280
Speaker 16: what you're doing is basically all the things we've been describing, right,

2117
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:51,320
Speaker 16: getting together a bunch of people to do a thing

2118
01:57:51,840 --> 01:57:55,400
Speaker 16: that is technically forming an organization. Yeah, Now, how formal

2119
01:57:55,520 --> 01:57:57,160
Speaker 16: informat you want it to be, or just you know,

2120
01:57:57,200 --> 01:57:59,840
Speaker 16: maybe it's just your organizing project or whatever. There's things

2121
01:57:59,880 --> 01:58:02,120
Speaker 16: you usually want. You want some kind of email so

2122
01:58:02,120 --> 01:58:05,200
Speaker 16: people can contact you in tandem with the email. Something

2123
01:58:05,240 --> 01:58:07,560
Speaker 16: that's very helpful that I think younger people tend not

2124
01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:10,760
Speaker 16: to think about is getting Google Voice. Yes, when Google

2125
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:13,400
Speaker 16: Voice lets you set up a voicemail account so people

2126
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:16,080
Speaker 16: can call you and leave phone messages. I mean, everyone

2127
01:58:16,120 --> 01:58:18,240
Speaker 16: should just do this because this is the way that

2128
01:58:18,280 --> 01:58:20,040
Speaker 16: a lot of older people communicate.

2129
01:58:20,120 --> 01:58:20,200
Speaker 14: Right.

2130
01:58:20,200 --> 01:58:21,720
Speaker 6: They won't send you an email, but they will leave

2131
01:58:21,760 --> 01:58:22,440
Speaker 6: you a voice.

2132
01:58:22,200 --> 01:58:25,880
Speaker 16: Message, and it's very very useful for this. Childcare is

2133
01:58:25,880 --> 01:58:28,480
Speaker 16: something that's important. I did, I mean a lot is

2134
01:58:28,480 --> 01:58:30,280
Speaker 16: probably too strong of a word, but like I did

2135
01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:33,760
Speaker 16: childcare when I was organizing, and it wound up being

2136
01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:35,720
Speaker 16: really helpful because there's a lot of people with kids,

2137
01:58:36,200 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 16: and so you know, there's a couple of ways that

2138
01:58:38,040 --> 01:58:39,880
Speaker 16: this could work. One is that you know, you have

2139
01:58:39,920 --> 01:58:41,720
Speaker 16: everyone bring their kids. You have like a little space,

2140
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:43,920
Speaker 16: you bring them like coloring stuff, you bring them toys,

2141
01:58:43,920 --> 01:58:45,800
Speaker 16: you bring them games, and you just sort of watch

2142
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:48,880
Speaker 16: everyone for a while. And as an organizing thing, again,

2143
01:58:48,920 --> 01:58:52,800
Speaker 16: if you're good with kids, that's very useful, staggeringly useful

2144
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:53,600
Speaker 16: organizing skill.

2145
01:58:53,800 --> 01:58:54,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2146
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:57,400
Speaker 16: Another way this stuff happens is, you know, everyone pulls

2147
01:58:57,440 --> 01:59:00,720
Speaker 16: together ten bucks and you hire a babysitter, Yeah, for

2148
01:59:00,760 --> 01:59:03,400
Speaker 16: a bunch of kids. And that's a very useful organizing

2149
01:59:03,480 --> 01:59:03,840
Speaker 16: a thing.

2150
01:59:04,200 --> 01:59:07,720
Speaker 17: Yeah, I organize with people who have kids. I remember

2151
01:59:08,760 --> 01:59:12,200
Speaker 17: four years ago, fuck me twenty twenty, a long time ago,

2152
01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:15,920
Speaker 17: and also yesterday. But like we were organizing to feed

2153
01:59:16,160 --> 01:59:18,800
Speaker 17: and house people and we were having a big Thanksgiving dinner,

2154
01:59:19,120 --> 01:59:21,360
Speaker 17: and like, some of my friends have very young children

2155
01:59:21,400 --> 01:59:24,440
Speaker 17: and they bought them And I think it's actually really

2156
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:28,760
Speaker 17: cool to do that. A like for those kids, it

2157
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:33,120
Speaker 17: is normal that, like we look after people in our community.

2158
01:59:33,200 --> 01:59:35,200
Speaker 17: This is what we do and ever since I've been little,

2159
01:59:35,240 --> 01:59:37,960
Speaker 17: this is what we did, and like it's also very

2160
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:40,680
Speaker 17: nice for people. Like a lot of my friends also

2161
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 17: brought their children down to the border, especially last year

2162
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:46,080
Speaker 17: when we had because there were children there anyway, right, Yeah,

2163
01:59:46,360 --> 01:59:48,920
Speaker 17: some of my friends who bring their children down and

2164
01:59:48,920 --> 01:59:50,840
Speaker 17: their kids would play with the other kids, and like

2165
01:59:51,160 --> 01:59:53,440
Speaker 17: it doesn't matter that some of the kids are Kurdition

2166
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:55,080
Speaker 17: and some of the kids are from China and some

2167
01:59:55,120 --> 01:59:56,760
Speaker 17: of them are from Columbia or whatever. Like they'll get

2168
01:59:56,760 --> 01:59:58,880
Speaker 17: along just fine. When they're four or five years old.

2169
01:59:59,080 --> 02:00:01,240
Speaker 17: They don't care. They want to kick a ball or

2170
02:00:01,280 --> 02:00:03,800
Speaker 17: see a Teddy Bear or something. And I think it's

2171
02:00:03,840 --> 02:00:06,600
Speaker 17: really good for your children to you know, you're bringing

2172
02:00:06,640 --> 02:00:11,160
Speaker 17: them into a world which is cruel and at times unequal,

2173
02:00:11,320 --> 02:00:14,080
Speaker 17: and like your kids seeing that, like we can make

2174
02:00:14,080 --> 02:00:16,440
Speaker 17: a difference and we can do this. I think it's

2175
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:18,920
Speaker 17: one of the best educations you can give your children.

2176
02:00:19,200 --> 02:00:22,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's something that's good for everyone involved.

2177
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:25,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, exactly, And it's also very I think one of

2178
02:00:25,760 --> 02:00:27,600
Speaker 17: the things I see a lot wh people are organizing

2179
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:30,240
Speaker 17: thing with refugees of the end House is like they're

2180
02:00:30,320 --> 02:00:32,840
Speaker 17: just people, Like you don't need to be afraid of them,

2181
02:00:33,040 --> 02:00:37,000
Speaker 17: Like they don't want to hurt your children. And having

2182
02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:39,920
Speaker 17: your children around shows that, like you have grasped they're

2183
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:42,000
Speaker 17: just people, and that you feel safe and your children

2184
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:44,320
Speaker 17: are safe around them. And I think that that's valuable too.

2185
02:00:44,360 --> 02:00:47,400
Speaker 17: You're giving both parties some dignity in that moment.

2186
02:00:47,760 --> 02:00:48,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2187
02:00:48,440 --> 02:00:51,120
Speaker 16: There are some other very basic things that I think

2188
02:00:51,120 --> 02:00:54,240
Speaker 16: are very important. If you've never done this before, I'm

2189
02:00:54,240 --> 02:00:55,920
Speaker 16: going to talk a little bit about how you run

2190
02:00:55,960 --> 02:00:59,200
Speaker 16: a meeting. Yeah, And you would think that this doesn't matter,

2191
02:00:59,320 --> 02:01:02,200
Speaker 16: and until you watch a group of one hundred people

2192
02:01:02,200 --> 02:01:03,920
Speaker 16: who don't know how to do this attempt to get

2193
02:01:03,960 --> 02:01:06,160
Speaker 16: anything done and they it just is a fiasco.

2194
02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:08,040
Speaker 6: And this is even true sort of smaller groups.

2195
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:10,400
Speaker 16: Yeah, So I'm going to give you how to run

2196
02:01:10,440 --> 02:01:14,200
Speaker 16: a meeting one oh one, Okay, A very common way

2197
02:01:14,280 --> 02:01:16,680
Speaker 16: to organize meetings that people use all over the world

2198
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:18,880
Speaker 16: and it's very effective. Is you have two things. You

2199
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:21,320
Speaker 16: have an agenda and you have a stack. And those

2200
02:01:21,360 --> 02:01:24,040
Speaker 16: are like the technical terms for them. The agenda, I mean,

2201
02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:26,000
Speaker 16: is an agenda, right, you know what an agenda is.

2202
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:27,680
Speaker 16: You put the things that you need to do on it.

2203
02:01:28,280 --> 02:01:30,680
Speaker 16: And another thing that's very helpful with these is you

2204
02:01:30,680 --> 02:01:32,919
Speaker 16: know you're going to be operating at our time constraints

2205
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:35,440
Speaker 16: because people don't have forty five hours to be in meetings,

2206
02:01:35,440 --> 02:01:36,840
Speaker 16: and my god, you don't want to be in a

2207
02:01:36,840 --> 02:01:40,200
Speaker 16: meeting for that long. Yeah, you know. Knowing how long

2208
02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:42,960
Speaker 16: roughly you want to talk about these things is very

2209
02:01:43,080 --> 02:01:45,920
Speaker 16: very useful and making sure that you're of moving the

2210
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:48,640
Speaker 16: conversation through the stuff on the agenda because you have

2211
02:01:48,640 --> 02:01:51,680
Speaker 16: more stuff you need to talk about. All of this again,

2212
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:54,400
Speaker 16: like this all sounds very obvious, and again you know

2213
02:01:54,440 --> 02:01:56,720
Speaker 16: how to do it, But until you've been in a

2214
02:01:56,800 --> 02:01:59,920
Speaker 16: room where people have not realize they need to do this,

2215
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:01,839
Speaker 16: you don't understand how I put.

2216
02:02:01,600 --> 02:02:04,680
Speaker 17: On this stuff gets the pain of it not happening.

2217
02:02:04,760 --> 02:02:07,560
Speaker 16: God, I have watched rooms full of like sciet these

2218
02:02:07,600 --> 02:02:10,160
Speaker 16: are like professional scientists, right, this is an entire room

2219
02:02:10,160 --> 02:02:12,440
Speaker 16: of one hundred feet of people with physics PhDs who

2220
02:02:12,520 --> 02:02:14,400
Speaker 16: don't know how to run a meeting, and it's a

2221
02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:16,600
Speaker 16: shit show. And all of this stuff could have been

2222
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:19,880
Speaker 16: avoided with some very very simple things. Yes, the other thing,

2223
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:23,600
Speaker 16: and this is genuinely a piece of social technology, right,

2224
02:02:23,680 --> 02:02:25,920
Speaker 16: it is the stack. It is very simple, right. You

2225
02:02:25,960 --> 02:02:28,680
Speaker 16: have one person who is the stack keeper, and whatsone

2226
02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:30,600
Speaker 16: wants to talk? You have one person talking at a time,

2227
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:32,720
Speaker 16: and what someone wants to talk, they raise their hand,

2228
02:02:32,880 --> 02:02:35,000
Speaker 16: they make some kind of signal to the stack keeper,

2229
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:37,760
Speaker 16: and that person writes their name down, and so you

2230
02:02:37,840 --> 02:02:39,680
Speaker 16: now have a list of who gets to talk in

2231
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:42,000
Speaker 16: what order. And so you go down the list and

2232
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:46,080
Speaker 16: people get the say things. And again you know how

2233
02:02:46,080 --> 02:02:48,480
Speaker 16: to do this. This is not like a complicated thing.

2234
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:51,760
Speaker 16: But again I have watched people who collectively have like

2235
02:02:52,040 --> 02:02:55,440
Speaker 16: more PhDs than like I earn money in a week,

2236
02:02:55,960 --> 02:02:57,560
Speaker 16: Like who.

2237
02:02:57,440 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 6: Know, I can not be able to pick this out.

2238
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:00,560
Speaker 1: You do.

2239
02:03:00,840 --> 02:03:03,120
Speaker 16: I believe in you. I believe in you, dear listener,

2240
02:03:03,480 --> 02:03:05,960
Speaker 16: that you can do this. Yeah, there's a very common

2241
02:03:06,080 --> 02:03:08,760
Speaker 16: Sometimes this is one person and sometimes this is two people.

2242
02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:10,640
Speaker 16: A very common way to do it is to have

2243
02:03:10,640 --> 02:03:13,160
Speaker 16: a stack taker and then have someone who's the facilitator,

2244
02:03:13,200 --> 02:03:15,960
Speaker 16: and the facilitator's job is to call on the people

2245
02:03:16,480 --> 02:03:19,240
Speaker 16: and to try to like move the conversation forwards and

2246
02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:21,640
Speaker 16: get and make sure make sure everyone's involved. And also

2247
02:03:21,680 --> 02:03:23,680
Speaker 16: another important part of this, and this is again something

2248
02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:26,800
Speaker 16: you'll know from your stupid work meetings, is you have

2249
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:29,360
Speaker 16: to get people like me to shut up. Your meetings

2250
02:03:29,400 --> 02:03:32,160
Speaker 16: can't just be one person giving a speech. You have

2251
02:03:32,200 --> 02:03:34,160
Speaker 16: to cut them the fuck off and you have to

2252
02:03:34,160 --> 02:03:35,240
Speaker 16: get to the next person.

2253
02:03:36,240 --> 02:03:38,720
Speaker 17: Yeah, and doing that courteously is a skill.

2254
02:03:38,960 --> 02:03:39,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2255
02:03:39,320 --> 02:03:42,280
Speaker 16: Yeah, And finally, on this note, there's a lot of

2256
02:03:42,320 --> 02:03:44,800
Speaker 16: if you want to go into the like more technical stuff.

2257
02:03:45,360 --> 02:03:48,000
Speaker 16: Part of the things that facilitators use and part of

2258
02:03:49,320 --> 02:03:51,520
Speaker 16: you know, the formal name for this is like the

2259
02:03:51,520 --> 02:03:54,480
Speaker 16: progressive stack, but it's just a thing that's very useful

2260
02:03:54,480 --> 02:03:56,680
Speaker 16: in organizing is you want to make sure everyone in

2261
02:03:56,720 --> 02:04:00,080
Speaker 16: a room is engaged and talking and that it's not

2262
02:04:00,280 --> 02:04:03,520
Speaker 16: just three people who talk all the time. Yeah, and

2263
02:04:03,680 --> 02:04:05,440
Speaker 16: you know, and so the idea of the progressive stack,

2264
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:07,640
Speaker 16: right is you're trying to find the most marginalized people

2265
02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:09,840
Speaker 16: in degrees, people who are least likely to speak, and

2266
02:04:09,880 --> 02:04:12,360
Speaker 16: you're trying to get them in first. And sometimes this

2267
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:14,760
Speaker 16: is literally just like hey, someone hasn't been talking in

2268
02:04:14,840 --> 02:04:16,280
Speaker 16: a meeting this whole time, and you can like ask

2269
02:04:16,320 --> 02:04:17,840
Speaker 16: them what they think about something, or asked if they

2270
02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:20,520
Speaker 16: have anything to say, and a lot of times they will,

2271
02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:22,600
Speaker 16: but they just don't feel confident enough.

2272
02:04:22,440 --> 02:04:22,800
Speaker 6: To say it.

2273
02:04:22,840 --> 02:04:25,040
Speaker 16: And this is this is a very very important skill

2274
02:04:25,120 --> 02:04:27,120
Speaker 16: for a facilitator or just even you could just do

2275
02:04:27,160 --> 02:04:29,960
Speaker 16: this in a meeting too, right, Like you can be

2276
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:31,800
Speaker 16: the person who goes like, hey, do you have this

2277
02:04:31,800 --> 02:04:34,520
Speaker 16: this person have anything to contribute? And that is an

2278
02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:37,120
Speaker 16: enormous thing. Sometimes it can be you know, sometimes it

2279
02:04:37,160 --> 02:04:39,360
Speaker 16: can be a little bit awkward, but it's a very

2280
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 16: important thing because you're just losing out on people who

2281
02:04:43,120 --> 02:04:47,480
Speaker 16: have really really valuable ideas and contributions and plans. And

2282
02:04:47,920 --> 02:04:51,400
Speaker 16: if you just let the same three people give speeches,

2283
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:55,160
Speaker 16: you can't get to the stuff that's actually useful.

2284
02:04:55,680 --> 02:04:59,080
Speaker 17: Yeah, definitely, if you've been a teacher or in any

2285
02:04:59,120 --> 02:05:02,000
Speaker 17: way what you know, probably have had you have this skill.

2286
02:05:02,520 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 17: You might not consider it a skill, but even if

2287
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:06,480
Speaker 17: you've been a TA in grad school something like that,

2288
02:05:06,480 --> 02:05:07,720
Speaker 17: you probably know how to do this.

2289
02:05:08,320 --> 02:05:11,760
Speaker 16: Yeah, so I'm gonna put all of this together briefly,

2290
02:05:11,760 --> 02:05:14,720
Speaker 16: and I'm going to run through basically how we started

2291
02:05:14,720 --> 02:05:16,680
Speaker 16: the first organizing project I ever day, which was a

2292
02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:17,839
Speaker 16: tenants union in Chicago.

2293
02:05:18,360 --> 02:05:20,520
Speaker 6: Okay, so this is based on my memory.

2294
02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:22,480
Speaker 16: It's been a long time since I did this, but

2295
02:05:22,800 --> 02:05:25,800
Speaker 16: my basic memory of what we did was. Okay, So

2296
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:28,280
Speaker 16: one of my friends is an experienced organizer. I was

2297
02:05:28,400 --> 02:05:30,960
Speaker 16: like a tiny baby, right this this was my first

2298
02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:32,560
Speaker 16: offline organizing project ever.

2299
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:33,880
Speaker 6: Right, I had no idea what was doing.

2300
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:36,960
Speaker 16: I thought I was a guy, which like that, that's

2301
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:39,480
Speaker 16: how much of a fiasco, Like little tidy baby bo

2302
02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:42,240
Speaker 16: who doesn't know anything this was, you know. And so

2303
02:05:42,400 --> 02:05:44,720
Speaker 16: my friend talked to some people that he knew, and

2304
02:05:44,760 --> 02:05:46,480
Speaker 16: he knew that I, you know, I was interested in

2305
02:05:46,480 --> 02:05:48,000
Speaker 16: getting involved in tennants organizing.

2306
02:05:48,040 --> 02:05:48,800
Speaker 5: And we we like.

2307
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:52,120
Speaker 16: Went to a cafe and we sat down and we

2308
02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:54,880
Speaker 16: ate and we just talked about what we wanted to do,

2309
02:05:54,960 --> 02:05:57,120
Speaker 16: what our plans were, what things we needed to do

2310
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:01,160
Speaker 16: to get this organization set up. We talked about ideological stuff,

2311
02:06:01,200 --> 02:06:03,560
Speaker 16: and that's actually is something that's important too, is part

2312
02:06:03,560 --> 02:06:06,440
Speaker 16: of organizing is getting people to think intentionally about their

2313
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:11,560
Speaker 16: actions and think politically about their actions. Yeah, and that's

2314
02:06:11,600 --> 02:06:13,280
Speaker 16: something that's very useful. You also have to make sure

2315
02:06:13,280 --> 02:06:15,440
Speaker 16: that you're not forming a book club. Like book clubs

2316
02:06:15,440 --> 02:06:18,400
Speaker 16: are fine, but you need to make sure you're organizing group.

2317
02:06:18,440 --> 02:06:19,840
Speaker 16: If you try to do a thing, has it just

2318
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:22,280
Speaker 16: become a book club. But that's you know that that

2319
02:06:22,360 --> 02:06:24,560
Speaker 16: was something that was very useful to us. And you know,

2320
02:06:24,600 --> 02:06:27,240
Speaker 16: we started making a plan. And our plan was, okay,

2321
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:29,080
Speaker 16: we made a bunch of flyers and then we went

2322
02:06:29,120 --> 02:06:30,760
Speaker 16: out and I did this and I walked around through

2323
02:06:30,760 --> 02:06:32,440
Speaker 16: a bunch of streets and put them a light post

2324
02:06:32,520 --> 02:06:34,920
Speaker 16: or whatever, and then we put them like we hung

2325
02:06:34,960 --> 02:06:37,000
Speaker 16: them up in the buildings of tenants, you know, because

2326
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:38,480
Speaker 16: you can just like walk up the stairs, right and

2327
02:06:38,520 --> 02:06:40,080
Speaker 16: you just put them on the walls. And you know,

2328
02:06:40,160 --> 02:06:43,320
Speaker 16: we had this flyer, this firehead information. This flyer said, okay,

2329
02:06:43,320 --> 02:06:45,480
Speaker 16: we're starting a tenant's union. If you have tenant, if

2330
02:06:45,480 --> 02:06:47,680
Speaker 16: you have issues with your landlord, or you want to

2331
02:06:47,720 --> 02:06:50,240
Speaker 16: talk about tenants stuff like, come here. At this time,

2332
02:06:50,320 --> 02:06:52,880
Speaker 16: we had an email you can send us stuff. We

2333
02:06:52,920 --> 02:06:55,160
Speaker 16: had a phone number that you could call. Yeah, you know,

2334
02:06:55,200 --> 02:06:57,960
Speaker 16: and so okay, and so parallel to this, we like,

2335
02:06:58,360 --> 02:07:00,400
Speaker 16: I forget if it was a church or if it

2336
02:07:00,480 --> 02:07:05,000
Speaker 16: was some building, some center or something, we booked a room.

2337
02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:08,120
Speaker 16: We were kind of lucky in that we had like

2338
02:07:08,160 --> 02:07:11,320
Speaker 16: local press people nice who we sort of knew. And

2339
02:07:11,360 --> 02:07:13,480
Speaker 16: this is another useful like if knowing a journalist can

2340
02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:15,240
Speaker 16: be a very useful skill, because one way to get

2341
02:07:15,280 --> 02:07:16,840
Speaker 16: a project off the ground, if you're trying to get

2342
02:07:16,840 --> 02:07:19,400
Speaker 16: to a bunch of people, is by finding a journalist

2343
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:21,120
Speaker 16: who is willing to cover it. Because you know, we're

2344
02:07:21,120 --> 02:07:23,600
Speaker 16: we're finding founding like the first tenants union in this place,

2345
02:07:23,720 --> 02:07:26,320
Speaker 16: right yeah, and you know, so we had media coverage

2346
02:07:26,320 --> 02:07:28,200
Speaker 16: and we got kind of screwed with when this event

2347
02:07:28,240 --> 02:07:30,200
Speaker 16: eventually came together because there was like three feet of

2348
02:07:30,200 --> 02:07:33,240
Speaker 16: snow that night, but people still came, like people still

2349
02:07:33,240 --> 02:07:35,600
Speaker 16: came in the blizzard, Like a lot of people showed

2350
02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:37,800
Speaker 16: up for this. What are things that we do? We also, like,

2351
02:07:37,920 --> 02:07:40,200
Speaker 16: you know, we just we just started talking to people, right,

2352
02:07:40,200 --> 02:07:42,680
Speaker 16: We started talking to tenants about their problems. We just

2353
02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:44,920
Speaker 16: you know, we talked to our friends, we talked to

2354
02:07:44,960 --> 02:07:47,400
Speaker 16: the people they knew. We ended up talking to someone,

2355
02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:48,640
Speaker 16: you know, And this is the thing that just happens

2356
02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:51,240
Speaker 16: as it spreads by word of mouth, right, people start

2357
02:07:51,280 --> 02:07:54,000
Speaker 16: contacting you. We ran into a really long time tenants

2358
02:07:54,080 --> 02:07:57,640
Speaker 16: organizer in the city who had a bunch of incredible

2359
02:07:57,680 --> 02:08:01,120
Speaker 16: stories about how our corrupt politicians got jobs by portraying

2360
02:08:01,160 --> 02:08:03,480
Speaker 16: the old tenets organizers, right, And like I said, the

2361
02:08:03,600 --> 02:08:05,600
Speaker 16: thing is, you know, another thing that happens in projects

2362
02:08:05,640 --> 02:08:07,560
Speaker 16: is you'll you'll sometimes you'll just you just pick up

2363
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:10,080
Speaker 16: someone who's you know, has been doing this since like

2364
02:08:10,120 --> 02:08:12,640
Speaker 16: the sixties. Yeah, and it rules because they have a

2365
02:08:12,680 --> 02:08:14,880
Speaker 16: wealth of experience and they want to they want to

2366
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:17,680
Speaker 16: do stuff. We plotted out what we were going to

2367
02:08:17,760 --> 02:08:18,400
Speaker 16: do at our meeting.

2368
02:08:18,520 --> 02:08:20,040
Speaker 6: You know, we were going to do some political education.

2369
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:21,520
Speaker 16: We were gonna have a bunch of time for people

2370
02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:23,320
Speaker 16: to talk about stuff, and we were gonna, you know,

2371
02:08:23,960 --> 02:08:26,640
Speaker 16: get get people to understand what we were doing, how

2372
02:08:26,680 --> 02:08:29,440
Speaker 16: they could start organizing. And then we did it, and

2373
02:08:29,480 --> 02:08:32,720
Speaker 16: I unfortunately don't remember much of what we talked about

2374
02:08:32,720 --> 02:08:34,400
Speaker 16: because I was off in another room taking care of

2375
02:08:34,440 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 16: a bunch of people's kids, which was very nice, But

2376
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:38,600
Speaker 16: I don't I don't remember what we talked about. But

2377
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:41,520
Speaker 16: like that, you know, but like you all of those things, right,

2378
02:08:41,560 --> 02:08:44,400
Speaker 16: all of those steps from the start of you get

2379
02:08:44,440 --> 02:08:46,640
Speaker 16: five of your friends to go eat dinner, and you

2380
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:49,840
Speaker 16: talk about what you want to do through Someone makes

2381
02:08:49,840 --> 02:08:53,320
Speaker 16: a flyer in like Microsoft or whatever. You make it

2382
02:08:53,360 --> 02:08:56,160
Speaker 16: in like PowerPoint, M that's publisher.

2383
02:08:55,720 --> 02:08:57,680
Speaker 6: What's what's what's the one? I'm blinking, I haven't used

2384
02:08:57,680 --> 02:09:01,000
Speaker 6: it in so long? The one you make greeting cards in.

2385
02:09:01,560 --> 02:09:02,640
Speaker 6: I really thought.

2386
02:09:05,120 --> 02:09:08,040
Speaker 16: Program and I've forgotten it is you see this to

2387
02:09:08,080 --> 02:09:10,120
Speaker 16: make Christmas cards? But like, you know, okay, so we

2388
02:09:10,400 --> 02:09:12,200
Speaker 16: made a flyer and then we walked around and put

2389
02:09:12,240 --> 02:09:14,560
Speaker 16: the flyers up and we made it. We made an email,

2390
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:16,960
Speaker 16: you know, we got a space together, we figured out

2391
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:19,240
Speaker 16: what we wanted to do, and then we did it.

2392
02:09:19,720 --> 02:09:22,160
Speaker 16: And you know, and there's a bunch of organizing from there, right,

2393
02:09:22,240 --> 02:09:24,520
Speaker 16: But like we had started a thing, and you can

2394
02:09:24,560 --> 02:09:27,080
Speaker 16: do every single one of those steps. And if you

2395
02:09:27,120 --> 02:09:29,360
Speaker 16: can't personally do one of those steps, you can think

2396
02:09:29,400 --> 02:09:31,960
Speaker 16: of a person who you know, who you can bring

2397
02:09:32,000 --> 02:09:34,680
Speaker 16: in to help you do these things. Because organizing you

2398
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:37,280
Speaker 16: already fucking know how to do it. Yeah, you just

2399
02:09:37,320 --> 02:09:38,080
Speaker 16: have to go out there.

2400
02:09:37,920 --> 02:09:38,280
Speaker 5: And do it.

2401
02:09:38,760 --> 02:09:39,000
Speaker 6: Yep.

2402
02:09:39,600 --> 02:09:41,120
Speaker 17: You can have faith.

2403
02:09:41,640 --> 02:10:05,000
Speaker 16: Yeah, and this has been it could happen here, go organize.

2404
02:10:05,840 --> 02:10:09,120
Speaker 10: Hello and welcome to AcrAB and here I'm Andrew Sage,

2405
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:12,320
Speaker 10: I run Andrews on YouTube, and I'm here with.

2406
02:10:12,400 --> 02:10:15,000
Speaker 6: The voice of Garrison Davis.

2407
02:10:15,040 --> 02:10:19,440
Speaker 10: Hello, Hello, Hello, and today we're going to continue our

2408
02:10:19,520 --> 02:10:23,360
Speaker 10: journey through Latin American anarchisms and their histories with a

2409
02:10:23,400 --> 02:10:24,920
Speaker 10: sort of a four for one.

2410
02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:27,720
Speaker 6: Special exciting, exciting, very exciting.

2411
02:10:28,720 --> 02:10:34,600
Speaker 10: We talked about Peru, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Cuba sofa,

2412
02:10:34,960 --> 02:10:37,720
Speaker 10: as well as the Mapuche struggle in Chile and Argentina.

2413
02:10:38,320 --> 02:10:40,280
Speaker 5: And now was the time to explore what was going.

2414
02:10:40,080 --> 02:10:43,200
Speaker 10: On at the top of the South American continent, the

2415
02:10:43,320 --> 02:10:47,320
Speaker 10: territory of the former Grand Colombia, and that is the

2416
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:53,280
Speaker 10: territories of Ecuador, Colombia, Panama, and Venezuela. But if this

2417
02:10:53,320 --> 02:10:55,760
Speaker 10: is the first time you're hearing about Grand Columbia, let

2418
02:10:55,800 --> 02:11:01,760
Speaker 10: me give a quick and a brief historical context. Grand

2419
02:11:01,800 --> 02:11:05,000
Speaker 10: Columbia was a short lived political entity that emerged in

2420
02:11:05,040 --> 02:11:08,520
Speaker 10: the early nineteenth century during Latin America's struggle for independence

2421
02:11:08,520 --> 02:11:12,160
Speaker 10: from Spanish colonial rule. It was formed in eighteen nineteen

2422
02:11:12,360 --> 02:11:14,960
Speaker 10: and it encompassed the territories, like I said, of present

2423
02:11:15,000 --> 02:11:18,440
Speaker 10: day Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, and Panama as well as some

2424
02:11:18,520 --> 02:11:23,400
Speaker 10: parts of northern Peru, western Guyana, and northwestern Brazil. The

2425
02:11:23,400 --> 02:11:26,520
Speaker 10: republic was envisioned by Simon Bolivar, who are dreamt of

2426
02:11:26,600 --> 02:11:29,280
Speaker 10: uniting the former Spanish colonies into.

2427
02:11:28,880 --> 02:11:30,120
Speaker 5: A powerful federation.

2428
02:11:30,640 --> 02:11:34,120
Speaker 10: They'll be able to resist foreign intervention and secure the independence.

2429
02:11:35,120 --> 02:11:39,520
Speaker 10: The Congress of Angostura declared the creation of Grand Columbia,

2430
02:11:39,560 --> 02:11:43,320
Speaker 10: with Bolivar as its first president. The public was a

2431
02:11:43,360 --> 02:11:48,760
Speaker 10: centralized state with a strong executive branch, so unsurprisingly, tension

2432
02:11:48,880 --> 02:11:52,240
Speaker 10: soon arose among the constituent regions due to their differences

2433
02:11:52,280 --> 02:11:57,960
Speaker 10: in political vision, economic interests, and regional identities. Centralized governance

2434
02:11:58,080 --> 02:12:03,000
Speaker 10: had alienated local elites, and debates over federalism versus centralism

2435
02:12:03,120 --> 02:12:09,160
Speaker 10: deepened existing divisions. Plus Bolivard's increasingly autocratic rule I mean

2436
02:12:09,520 --> 02:12:12,760
Speaker 10: he literally tried to push for a lifetime presidency obviously

2437
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:17,680
Speaker 10: sparked internal opposition, so Grand Columbia was facing external threats

2438
02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:23,040
Speaker 10: from Spanish royalist forces and internal fractures. By eighteen thirty,

2439
02:12:23,120 --> 02:12:26,520
Speaker 10: Bolivard had to resign from the presidency, disillusioned by the

2440
02:12:26,520 --> 02:12:29,520
Speaker 10: failure of his vision, and the same year Grand Columbia

2441
02:12:29,520 --> 02:12:34,280
Speaker 10: dissolved into three separate nations. Venezuela, Ecuador, and the Republic

2442
02:12:34,320 --> 02:12:38,600
Speaker 10: of New Grenada, which later on split into Columbia and Panama.

2443
02:12:38,840 --> 02:12:42,000
Speaker 10: Unlike the other countries of South America that we've covered,

2444
02:12:42,120 --> 02:12:46,640
Speaker 10: these countries had far less large scale anarchist movements, but

2445
02:12:46,680 --> 02:12:48,839
Speaker 10: will still take a look at what little impact anarchists

2446
02:12:48,880 --> 02:12:51,440
Speaker 10: did make in the past two centuries in these places.

2447
02:12:52,600 --> 02:12:54,600
Speaker 10: This whole series, by they wouldn't be possible without the

2448
02:12:54,600 --> 02:12:59,160
Speaker 10: scholarship of Anhill Capelletti, whose research I drew upon heavily

2449
02:12:59,360 --> 02:13:02,680
Speaker 10: for this historic review. I suggest reading his book Anarchism

2450
02:13:02,840 --> 02:13:06,240
Speaker 10: in Latin America for further details. Let's first take a

2451
02:13:06,240 --> 02:13:08,960
Speaker 10: look at the history in Ecuador at the turn of

2452
02:13:08,960 --> 02:13:12,080
Speaker 10: the twentieth century. Ecuador was ruined from a liberal revolution

2453
02:13:12,240 --> 02:13:14,880
Speaker 10: that had just taken place in the country. The country

2454
02:13:14,960 --> 02:13:19,160
Speaker 10: was shifting as industrialization creeped in, the bourgeoisie on the rise,

2455
02:13:19,200 --> 02:13:23,160
Speaker 10: and feudal landowners were losing their grip on power. A

2456
02:13:23,240 --> 02:13:26,480
Speaker 10: new secular cultural wave was also beginning to take shape

2457
02:13:26,840 --> 02:13:30,680
Speaker 10: as the clerical authorities began to lose their power. The

2458
02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:33,640
Speaker 10: workers naturally needed a voice in this process, and they

2459
02:13:33,680 --> 02:13:36,560
Speaker 10: found it first with the rise of the Partiro Liberal Obrero.

2460
02:13:36,920 --> 02:13:39,400
Speaker 5: With the Liberal Workers' Party in nineteen oh six.

2461
02:13:40,200 --> 02:13:42,440
Speaker 10: Around the same time, on New Year's Eve of nineteen

2462
02:13:42,440 --> 02:13:47,040
Speaker 10: oh five, the confederac Delcuador was founded in Guayaquil, a

2463
02:13:47,120 --> 02:13:50,480
Speaker 10: city that would become a hub for worker activity. Both

2464
02:13:50,720 --> 02:13:54,959
Speaker 10: organizations shared a vision rooted in social reform and work empowerment.

2465
02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:57,720
Speaker 10: It was also around this time that the Cuban anarchist

2466
02:13:57,800 --> 02:14:02,280
Speaker 10: Miguel Albuquerque made a name from self in Ecuador. Originally,

2467
02:14:02,320 --> 02:14:05,760
Speaker 10: he had come seeking assistance with Cuba's independent struggle, but

2468
02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:08,640
Speaker 10: eventually found himself playing a key role in Ecuador's labor movement.

2469
02:14:09,240 --> 02:14:12,400
Speaker 10: He established the side that the e Host del Trabajo

2470
02:14:12,600 --> 02:14:15,320
Speaker 10: or the Society the Sons of Labor, and other anarchist

2471
02:14:15,360 --> 02:14:18,880
Speaker 10: groups would also begin forming, contributing to the struggles taking

2472
02:14:18,880 --> 02:14:22,240
Speaker 10: place at the time. The first recorded strikes with anarchist

2473
02:14:22,240 --> 02:14:25,680
Speaker 10: influence took place in nineteen nineteen, where workers in the

2474
02:14:25,680 --> 02:14:29,960
Speaker 10: graphic arts industry organized the demand back conditions. By nineteen

2475
02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:34,280
Speaker 10: twenty two, Guyaquil was the epicenter of a massive general strike,

2476
02:14:34,720 --> 02:14:38,120
Speaker 10: shaped in part by the anarchist Nicolists, who were obviously.

2477
02:14:37,760 --> 02:14:38,760
Speaker 5: Right in the thick of it.

2478
02:14:39,240 --> 02:14:42,879
Speaker 10: The strike was driven by dissatisfaction among the workers, particularly

2479
02:14:42,880 --> 02:14:46,520
Speaker 10: among the cities, urban laborers and dark workers who were

2480
02:14:46,520 --> 02:14:51,120
Speaker 10: facing really poor wages, long hours, and deteriorating living conditions

2481
02:14:51,800 --> 02:14:55,480
Speaker 10: talors all this time. The strike culminated in a violent

2482
02:14:55,520 --> 02:14:59,320
Speaker 10: crackdown by government forces. Also tales all this time, with

2483
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:02,560
Speaker 10: estimates jet in that hundreds of workers were killed when

2484
02:15:02,560 --> 02:15:06,360
Speaker 10: the military suppressed the revolts. Most workers returned to their

2485
02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:09,240
Speaker 10: jobs after that, but the trolley workers continued their strike

2486
02:15:09,320 --> 02:15:12,080
Speaker 10: until the twenty first of November, when most of their

2487
02:15:12,080 --> 02:15:12,640
Speaker 10: demands were.

2488
02:15:12,640 --> 02:15:17,680
Speaker 6: Mect How much like crossover was there between like revolutionaries

2489
02:15:17,760 --> 02:15:20,560
Speaker 6: or like you know, workers rights people or anarchists in

2490
02:15:20,640 --> 02:15:23,560
Speaker 6: Cuba and places like this, because I assume there was

2491
02:15:23,560 --> 02:15:27,640
Speaker 6: like a lot more like growing sentiment in Cuba based

2492
02:15:27,680 --> 02:15:30,320
Speaker 6: on how that whole situation turned out in the next

2493
02:15:30,360 --> 02:15:33,840
Speaker 6: like twenty thirty years, and I feel like there would

2494
02:15:33,880 --> 02:15:36,080
Speaker 6: be a decent, like a decent number of cross or

2495
02:15:36,120 --> 02:15:38,560
Speaker 6: at least like some travel between some of these other

2496
02:15:38,640 --> 02:15:40,480
Speaker 6: like nearby places for.

2497
02:15:40,480 --> 02:15:44,720
Speaker 10: Sure, because Cuba has been gained independence much in theater

2498
02:15:45,160 --> 02:15:47,800
Speaker 10: than the rest of its last America neighbors, places like

2499
02:15:47,880 --> 02:15:51,480
Speaker 10: Mexico and Central America and Granitic Columbia and the rest

2500
02:15:51,520 --> 02:15:53,720
Speaker 10: of South America. They all gained the independence, and Cuba

2501
02:15:53,840 --> 02:15:57,440
Speaker 10: was still under the Spanish thumb and their remain under

2502
02:15:57,440 --> 02:16:00,440
Speaker 10: the Spanish thumb until they ended up having to struggle

2503
02:16:00,880 --> 02:16:03,520
Speaker 10: with the Americans as well and eventually to gain their

2504
02:16:03,520 --> 02:16:06,480
Speaker 10: one independence. I mean, it's all one one big pond.

2505
02:16:06,480 --> 02:16:08,720
Speaker 10: I like to see the Caribbean Sea. So there would

2506
02:16:08,760 --> 02:16:12,400
Speaker 10: have been a lot of transfer and communication between these

2507
02:16:12,600 --> 02:16:17,680
Speaker 10: independent Latin America and republics and Cuba, which was still

2508
02:16:17,800 --> 02:16:18,800
Speaker 10: at the time of colony.

2509
02:16:19,400 --> 02:16:20,520
Speaker 5: That was really interesting to see.

2510
02:16:20,520 --> 02:16:23,080
Speaker 10: What when you know, these Cuban characters sort of show

2511
02:16:23,160 --> 02:16:26,280
Speaker 10: up in the parts and ended I've stirring up some trouble.

2512
02:16:26,760 --> 02:16:29,600
Speaker 6: Totally well, and it shows just how like popular the

2513
02:16:29,680 --> 02:16:34,199
Speaker 6: nineteen twenties were kind of like everywhere, Like yeah, whether

2514
02:16:34,280 --> 02:16:36,600
Speaker 6: looking at like labor movement in the United States or

2515
02:16:36,640 --> 02:16:38,920
Speaker 6: like everything that you've been talking about these last few

2516
02:16:38,959 --> 02:16:43,080
Speaker 6: episodes about Latin American anarchism. Like always in like the

2517
02:16:43,160 --> 02:16:45,720
Speaker 6: nineteen twenties, there was always just like crazy shit going

2518
02:16:45,760 --> 02:16:48,400
Speaker 6: down consistently for sure.

2519
02:16:48,720 --> 02:16:51,160
Speaker 10: Unfortunately, nineteen twenties is also the time of a lot

2520
02:16:51,200 --> 02:16:54,120
Speaker 10: of decline for a lot of the anarchist movements because

2521
02:16:54,200 --> 02:16:57,400
Speaker 10: nineteen twenties follows you know, the rise of the USSR,

2522
02:16:57,920 --> 02:17:01,160
Speaker 10: and a lot of people ended up abandoned in anarchism

2523
02:17:01,360 --> 02:17:04,920
Speaker 10: and following that sort of popularity at the time.

2524
02:17:05,320 --> 02:17:07,360
Speaker 6: Well, and similarly, once we start getting into like the

2525
02:17:07,360 --> 02:17:10,280
Speaker 6: early thirties, I remember in the last few episodes that

2526
02:17:10,320 --> 02:17:14,039
Speaker 6: you've done, you see the resurgence of like right wing populism,

2527
02:17:14,200 --> 02:17:15,080
Speaker 6: like really hard.

2528
02:17:15,440 --> 02:17:18,760
Speaker 5: Yes, we tend to see a lot of resurgences.

2529
02:17:18,160 --> 02:17:20,680
Speaker 6: And like all this like revolutionary potential that's been growing

2530
02:17:20,760 --> 02:17:23,800
Speaker 6: the past few decades all gets like co opted or

2531
02:17:23,879 --> 02:17:27,120
Speaker 6: channeled into like right wing nationalism of right wing populism,

2532
02:17:27,560 --> 02:17:30,840
Speaker 6: and like that's a whole whole other pivot that happens,

2533
02:17:31,400 --> 02:17:34,160
Speaker 6: not just the more like you know, communism's statust one

2534
02:17:34,840 --> 02:17:36,240
Speaker 6: in like the twenties.

2535
02:17:35,959 --> 02:17:38,600
Speaker 5: Do see a resurgeons. We do see resurgions in the

2536
02:17:38,600 --> 02:17:42,120
Speaker 5: writing populism. Yes, we also see a resurgeons in the

2537
02:17:42,200 --> 02:17:45,320
Speaker 5: anarchist politics. You remember, the thirties was also the.

2538
02:17:45,240 --> 02:17:48,280
Speaker 10: Time of the Spanish Civil War, sure, and so in

2539
02:17:48,320 --> 02:17:50,960
Speaker 10: that time you had the anarchists picking up steam again,

2540
02:17:51,000 --> 02:17:53,640
Speaker 10: and you also had following that civil war, a lot

2541
02:17:53,640 --> 02:17:56,920
Speaker 10: of the anarchists from Spain spread out into a lot

2542
02:17:56,959 --> 02:17:59,480
Speaker 10: of the former colonies in Latin America.

2543
02:18:00,040 --> 02:18:01,720
Speaker 6: I think part of that rebirth is just because of

2544
02:18:01,760 --> 02:18:04,400
Speaker 6: how tied anarchism and anti fascism is.

2545
02:18:04,600 --> 02:18:05,120
Speaker 5: That's true.

2546
02:18:05,360 --> 02:18:09,560
Speaker 6: I think inadvertently, the rise of fascism they actually give

2547
02:18:09,600 --> 02:18:12,080
Speaker 6: birth to the rise of more anarchists as people get

2548
02:18:12,120 --> 02:18:15,320
Speaker 6: involved in anti fascism because of these things are so like,

2549
02:18:15,920 --> 02:18:19,000
Speaker 6: you know, sister movements in many ways. I think that

2550
02:18:19,040 --> 02:18:21,720
Speaker 6: may be a contributing factor. That's certainly how I kind

2551
02:18:21,720 --> 02:18:24,240
Speaker 6: of got into this sort of stuff was through anti fascism,

2552
02:18:24,760 --> 02:18:28,080
Speaker 6: and and I suspect that that may have also been

2553
02:18:28,120 --> 02:18:30,199
Speaker 6: the case even one hundred years ago.

2554
02:18:30,879 --> 02:18:31,280
Speaker 5: For sure.

2555
02:18:31,360 --> 02:18:36,440
Speaker 10: For sure, I think every story needs a good villain, unfortunately,

2556
02:18:36,920 --> 02:18:41,160
Speaker 10: and the story of anarchism, I mean, the fascists tend

2557
02:18:41,240 --> 02:18:44,160
Speaker 10: to make really, really impactful antagonists.

2558
02:18:44,240 --> 02:18:56,640
Speaker 5: I think. Indeed, at the same.

2559
02:18:56,440 --> 02:18:59,200
Speaker 10: Time we also had an Ecuador to have these strikes

2560
02:18:59,240 --> 02:19:03,959
Speaker 10: going on, anarchists doing you know that thing that anarchists

2561
02:19:04,040 --> 02:19:08,599
Speaker 10: like to do, which is a study group. Many such cases,

2562
02:19:09,600 --> 02:19:11,920
Speaker 10: many such cases, many such cases. But I mean it

2563
02:19:12,000 --> 02:19:15,600
Speaker 10: is an important aspect of struggles that's sort of consciousness racing. Yes,

2564
02:19:15,920 --> 02:19:18,800
Speaker 10: So these anarchists in particular in Guyaquille, they founded these

2565
02:19:18,840 --> 02:19:22,360
Speaker 10: Centro their Studio Socialists, which was a libertarian study group

2566
02:19:22,840 --> 02:19:26,280
Speaker 10: in Guayaquille, and then a decade later, in nineteen twenty

2567
02:19:26,800 --> 02:19:30,920
Speaker 10: the anarchists also established a Centro Gremial Sindicalista or the

2568
02:19:31,000 --> 02:19:34,720
Speaker 10: Synicalist Guild Center, which had a mission to an end

2569
02:19:35,520 --> 02:19:37,920
Speaker 10: liberate all the oppressed of the earth by bringing them

2570
02:19:37,920 --> 02:19:40,960
Speaker 10: into a libertarian syndicate that will replace the present system

2571
02:19:41,320 --> 02:19:44,560
Speaker 10: and opposing all political and religious doctrines as destructive and

2572
02:19:44,600 --> 02:19:49,040
Speaker 10: prejudicial to the rights and aspiration of workers endcode. As

2573
02:19:49,080 --> 02:19:52,400
Speaker 10: in the rest of the region, their publications played a

2574
02:19:52,480 --> 02:19:57,080
Speaker 10: key role in spreading the ideas again early twentieth century,

2575
02:19:57,200 --> 02:20:02,280
Speaker 10: late nineteenth century, the anarchists were make in papers. Yeah,

2576
02:20:02,440 --> 02:20:04,359
Speaker 10: use papers, newspapers, newspapers.

2577
02:20:04,480 --> 02:20:06,560
Speaker 6: I mean it is a bit of a blueprint for

2578
02:20:07,000 --> 02:20:10,360
Speaker 6: what anarchism continues to be in many ways, even with

2579
02:20:10,480 --> 02:20:14,199
Speaker 6: like the rise of destroyism in the in the past

2580
02:20:14,240 --> 02:20:18,199
Speaker 6: new past decade or so, in like popular anarchism, less newspapers,

2581
02:20:18,320 --> 02:20:22,480
Speaker 6: more more zines being held together by possibly one or

2582
02:20:22,600 --> 02:20:23,480
Speaker 6: fewer stables.

2583
02:20:23,720 --> 02:20:25,800
Speaker 10: And I like to think that I also continue that

2584
02:20:25,840 --> 02:20:28,280
Speaker 10: tradition and you and I as well by creating this

2585
02:20:28,400 --> 02:20:30,879
Speaker 10: kind of totally what do you and visual content?

2586
02:20:31,120 --> 02:20:33,880
Speaker 6: I am a zine enjoyer, I have I have any zines,

2587
02:20:34,120 --> 02:20:36,080
Speaker 6: but we also have to evolve with the times in

2588
02:20:36,120 --> 02:20:39,720
Speaker 6: some ways. Not everyone's going to be reading newspapers, not

2589
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:43,240
Speaker 6: everyone's going to be reading booklets. Unfortunately, as much as

2590
02:20:43,240 --> 02:20:46,200
Speaker 6: I encourage people to do so, I do think there

2591
02:20:46,240 --> 02:20:50,760
Speaker 6: is value in attacking the information ecosystem that people more

2592
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:55,480
Speaker 6: often use. That includes you know, podcasts, that includes your

2593
02:20:55,560 --> 02:20:59,320
Speaker 6: fantastic videos on YouTube, Thank you, thank you, and yeah,

2594
02:20:59,360 --> 02:21:01,480
Speaker 6: I agree for sure, for.

2595
02:21:01,440 --> 02:21:05,959
Speaker 10: Sure, But they didn't have things like YouTube or the

2596
02:21:06,000 --> 02:21:09,240
Speaker 10: Internet at the time. Instead, they had, at least in Ecuador,

2597
02:21:09,320 --> 02:21:14,520
Speaker 10: their newspapers like El Proletario and El Cacajuerro and Bandera Roja,

2598
02:21:15,320 --> 02:21:18,800
Speaker 10: which were carrying these syndicalist anarchismicalist ideas to the workers

2599
02:21:18,840 --> 02:21:22,800
Speaker 10: across Ecuador. They also the first truly anarchist papers that

2600
02:21:22,879 --> 02:21:28,120
Speaker 10: hit the country were Encion and Lose. The Axion in

2601
02:21:28,200 --> 02:21:31,760
Speaker 10: nineteen twenty two nineteen twenty nine respectfully, but as we

2602
02:21:31,760 --> 02:21:35,879
Speaker 10: were anticipating in the nineteen thirties brought some challenges. Marxist

2603
02:21:35,920 --> 02:21:39,560
Speaker 10: Lennis thought began to dominate leftist circles and figures like

2604
02:21:39,640 --> 02:21:44,520
Speaker 10: Jose Carlos Mariettegi and his general Amauta ended up wielding

2605
02:21:44,720 --> 02:21:48,600
Speaker 10: significant influence in the workers struggles, and by the end

2606
02:21:48,640 --> 02:21:52,840
Speaker 10: of the decade, anarchist groups found themselves vastly overshadowed as

2607
02:21:52,879 --> 02:21:57,840
Speaker 10: Marcus Lenists consolidated power through unified political parties. But despite

2608
02:21:57,879 --> 02:22:02,840
Speaker 10: these shifts, anarchistman Acuador was really ever entirely extinguished. It

2609
02:22:02,879 --> 02:22:06,440
Speaker 10: actually continues to influence workers organizations like the Ferracio and

2610
02:22:06,520 --> 02:22:10,480
Speaker 10: La guayas well into modern times. But now let's make

2611
02:22:10,480 --> 02:22:13,440
Speaker 10: our way north to Columbia as a similar story and

2612
02:22:13,560 --> 02:22:18,000
Speaker 10: foolds of anarchism taken route in here twentieth century. And

2613
02:22:18,040 --> 02:22:21,560
Speaker 10: this is actually a fun factor because both Eli's Recluse

2614
02:22:21,720 --> 02:22:26,439
Speaker 10: and Mikhail Bercunan visited Columbia recluses there for research purposes,

2615
02:22:26,480 --> 02:22:29,480
Speaker 10: and Bercunen wasn't an anarchist at the time, so they

2616
02:22:29,520 --> 02:22:32,520
Speaker 10: didn't directly contribute to the anarchist movement as far as

2617
02:22:32,560 --> 02:22:33,680
Speaker 10: we know, in the country.

2618
02:22:34,520 --> 02:22:36,400
Speaker 5: By the nineteen tents, anarchist.

2619
02:22:35,959 --> 02:22:40,160
Speaker 10: Ideas were definitely spreading, finding a home among students, artists,

2620
02:22:40,200 --> 02:22:45,600
Speaker 10: writers and workers. And this wasn't just idle philosophizing. They

2621
02:22:45,640 --> 02:22:49,680
Speaker 10: also got to work building workers societies and organizing mass

2622
02:22:49,720 --> 02:22:53,760
Speaker 10: actions at the May fifteenth demonstration in nineteen sixteen, which

2623
02:22:53,879 --> 02:22:57,480
Speaker 10: of course met with brutal police repression. From there, the

2624
02:22:57,520 --> 02:23:00,320
Speaker 10: movement came momentum in nineteen twenty Port Walter because in

2625
02:23:00,360 --> 02:23:03,120
Speaker 10: Katahina went on strike, and by the following decade, and

2626
02:23:03,160 --> 02:23:06,160
Speaker 10: I guess we're the forefront of workers militancy all across

2627
02:23:06,240 --> 02:23:10,360
Speaker 10: the Caribbean coast, which was more connected to global struggles

2628
02:23:10,360 --> 02:23:12,760
Speaker 10: in the rest of Columbia and was thus a hotbed

2629
02:23:12,800 --> 02:23:15,720
Speaker 10: of organizing and unrest. If you know the geography of Columbia,

2630
02:23:15,760 --> 02:23:18,320
Speaker 10: you'd know that there's a lot of jungle and mountainous

2631
02:23:18,360 --> 02:23:20,880
Speaker 10: region near the middle of the country. It's that the

2632
02:23:20,959 --> 02:23:23,320
Speaker 10: coast where you tend to have more of the activity

2633
02:23:23,840 --> 02:23:26,560
Speaker 10: and connection with the neighboring countries in the Caribbean Sea.

2634
02:23:27,040 --> 02:23:29,440
Speaker 10: Fun of fact, there's actually a lot of people in

2635
02:23:29,520 --> 02:23:32,320
Speaker 10: the English speaking Caribbean aren't aware of the fact that

2636
02:23:32,360 --> 02:23:35,320
Speaker 10: there are people in the Spanish speaking Caribbean who consider,

2637
02:23:35,720 --> 02:23:39,280
Speaker 10: you know, coastal Colombia and Coastal Venezuela to be part

2638
02:23:39,600 --> 02:23:42,840
Speaker 10: of the Caribbean. But as like the sort of niche

2639
02:23:42,879 --> 02:23:47,440
Speaker 10: discourse you get an r slash ass Caribbean. The few

2640
02:23:47,480 --> 02:23:51,959
Speaker 10: Anarchistablu present in Colombia were part of nearly every major uprising,

2641
02:23:52,200 --> 02:23:55,520
Speaker 10: including the Baranquila Strike of nineteen ten, the labor wave

2642
02:23:55,920 --> 02:23:59,320
Speaker 10: that swept Cattahina, Barankuilia and Santimurri year nineteen eighteen, the

2643
02:23:59,360 --> 02:24:02,200
Speaker 10: first strike against the notoriously bloody United Fruit Company in

2644
02:24:02,240 --> 02:24:06,320
Speaker 10: nineteen eighteen, the hero Dot Railroad strike and the Artisans

2645
02:24:06,320 --> 02:24:09,960
Speaker 10: and Labor strike in Bogota nineteen nineteen. The oil strikes

2646
02:24:10,000 --> 02:24:13,800
Speaker 10: in Baron Kabirmeha during the nineteen twenties, including one against

2647
02:24:13,800 --> 02:24:17,040
Speaker 10: the Tropical Oil Company in nineteen twenty seven which cost

2648
02:24:17,160 --> 02:24:20,040
Speaker 10: twelve hundred workers their jobs and painted the targets on

2649
02:24:20,080 --> 02:24:23,800
Speaker 10: the backs of the organizers because how dare you mess

2650
02:24:23,840 --> 02:24:27,720
Speaker 10: with oil? And then finally there was the famous Santa

2651
02:24:27,760 --> 02:24:31,800
Speaker 10: Maria Banana strike of nineteen twenty eight, where workers demanded

2652
02:24:31,840 --> 02:24:35,600
Speaker 10: fair wages and better treatment, and the government responded at

2653
02:24:35,600 --> 02:24:38,880
Speaker 10: the behest of the United Fruit Company by claiming hundreds

2654
02:24:38,920 --> 02:24:42,720
Speaker 10: of lives after the massacre. The anarchist movement in Columbia

2655
02:24:42,920 --> 02:24:45,920
Speaker 10: was heavily repressed, and because of how small it was,

2656
02:24:46,000 --> 02:24:48,760
Speaker 10: it didn't quite pick back up. As historian Max that

2657
02:24:48,840 --> 02:24:52,960
Speaker 10: Lao noted, publications like Organization in Santa Marta and Via

2658
02:24:53,000 --> 02:24:57,280
Speaker 10: Libre and Baranquilla disappeared at the late nineteen twenties. This

2659
02:24:57,440 --> 02:25:00,240
Speaker 10: crackdown on anarchists, coupled with the rise in Floyd of

2660
02:25:00,280 --> 02:25:04,640
Speaker 10: Bolshevik led unions, shifted the landscape, and by the nineteen

2661
02:25:04,680 --> 02:25:10,240
Speaker 10: thirties anarchist organizing was all but silenced in Columbia. But

2662
02:25:10,280 --> 02:25:12,640
Speaker 10: it's a part of Columbia that we're missing. She At

2663
02:25:12,640 --> 02:25:16,320
Speaker 10: one point Panama was considered part of the country, so

2664
02:25:16,360 --> 02:25:18,920
Speaker 10: there must been stuff happening on that little sliver of land, right,

2665
02:25:19,400 --> 02:25:23,400
Speaker 10: He'd be surprised if we rewind to the mid nineteenth century.

2666
02:25:23,640 --> 02:25:26,680
Speaker 10: Between eighteen fifteen eighteen fifty five, Panama saw the construction

2667
02:25:26,879 --> 02:25:30,480
Speaker 10: of a trans Isthmus railroad, and this massive project was

2668
02:25:30,520 --> 02:25:34,200
Speaker 10: followed by two phases of canal construction, the first by

2669
02:25:34,200 --> 02:25:37,080
Speaker 10: the French between eighteen eighteen and eighteen ninety five and

2670
02:25:37,120 --> 02:25:40,120
Speaker 10: the second by the US from nineteen oh forty nineteen fourteen.

2671
02:25:40,480 --> 02:25:43,560
Speaker 10: These projects brought tens of thousands of workers from Europe,

2672
02:25:43,800 --> 02:25:47,240
Speaker 10: Asia and Caribbean, effectually turned in Panama into a melting

2673
02:25:47,280 --> 02:25:50,120
Speaker 10: part of laborers who bought their skills, their culture and

2674
02:25:50,160 --> 02:25:54,640
Speaker 10: their ideas. Beijian workers, for example, that is people from Barberos.

2675
02:25:54,879 --> 02:25:57,439
Speaker 10: If I recall correctly, there was a time in Barbeos's

2676
02:25:57,560 --> 02:26:00,960
Speaker 10: history where there was some massive It was like a

2677
02:26:00,959 --> 02:26:04,400
Speaker 10: full quarter of the country's income was just coming from

2678
02:26:04,400 --> 02:26:08,520
Speaker 10: remittances from people who had had family members sending their

2679
02:26:08,560 --> 02:26:12,600
Speaker 10: money from the canal project back home. And it's not

2680
02:26:12,720 --> 02:26:16,000
Speaker 10: just the Cribbean there was impacted, obviously, as workers from

2681
02:26:16,040 --> 02:26:19,959
Speaker 10: Europe and Asia also part of this project. And it's

2682
02:26:20,000 --> 02:26:23,160
Speaker 10: the workers from Europe and particularly Spain that brought many

2683
02:26:23,160 --> 02:26:26,120
Speaker 10: of the ideas of class consciousness and anarchist cynicalism that

2684
02:26:26,160 --> 02:26:28,440
Speaker 10: had been bruin in that region of the world. And

2685
02:26:28,480 --> 02:26:31,720
Speaker 10: such ideas were of course solely needed in the horrific

2686
02:26:31,760 --> 02:26:34,880
Speaker 10: working conditions of death and disease that marked the Panama

2687
02:26:34,879 --> 02:26:39,360
Speaker 10: Canal construction project. Workers organized some successful strikes in both

2688
02:26:39,360 --> 02:26:42,160
Speaker 10: the French phase and the American phase of construction, both

2689
02:26:42,160 --> 02:26:45,000
Speaker 10: before and after Panama gain its independence from Colombia nineteen

2690
02:26:45,000 --> 02:26:47,200
Speaker 10: oh three. But it was just before the transition to

2691
02:26:47,240 --> 02:26:52,000
Speaker 10: American control over canal construction that Panama officially banned anarchists

2692
02:26:52,040 --> 02:26:55,360
Speaker 10: from entering the country for the anarchists that were left well.

2693
02:26:55,400 --> 02:26:57,800
Speaker 10: When the Americans took over the Canal, Governor of the

2694
02:26:57,800 --> 02:27:01,039
Speaker 10: Canal So in general, George W. Davis actively suppressed the

2695
02:27:01,040 --> 02:27:03,760
Speaker 10: anarchist workers that remained. In nineteen oh seven or whatever,

2696
02:27:04,280 --> 02:27:08,039
Speaker 10: despite that repression, two thousand Spanish workers went on strike

2697
02:27:08,120 --> 02:27:12,000
Speaker 10: for better wages. In nineteen twenty four, a prominently anarchist

2698
02:27:12,000 --> 02:27:15,120
Speaker 10: cynicalist group founded the Sindicato Heneral Destrabbaha Daughters, which was

2699
02:27:15,120 --> 02:27:19,039
Speaker 10: Panama's first central workers union. They grew to thousands of

2700
02:27:19,120 --> 02:27:23,600
Speaker 10: members and brought together a mix of ideologies anarchists and

2701
02:27:23,680 --> 02:27:26,640
Speaker 10: Marxists alike, even those who would later found the Communist

2702
02:27:26,680 --> 02:27:29,560
Speaker 10: Party and the Socialist Party of Panama in nineteen thirty.

2703
02:27:30,120 --> 02:27:32,360
Speaker 10: But on such a small sliver of land were so

2704
02:27:32,400 --> 02:27:34,560
Speaker 10: many people mixed in there, there was bound to be

2705
02:27:34,560 --> 02:27:37,360
Speaker 10: a vibrant mix of ideas. And not all of the

2706
02:27:37,360 --> 02:27:40,880
Speaker 10: anarchists in Panama were of the syndicalist flair. Believe it

2707
02:27:41,000 --> 02:27:44,120
Speaker 10: or not, they were actually workers within Panama who aligned

2708
02:27:44,160 --> 02:27:48,720
Speaker 10: themselves with Max Stuner's philosophy. They had egoists and anarchist

2709
02:27:48,800 --> 02:27:52,240
Speaker 10: egoism interesting in Panama. Yeah, exactly. This blew my mind

2710
02:27:52,240 --> 02:27:54,200
Speaker 10: as well. And they don't expect to see them in

2711
02:27:54,240 --> 02:27:55,040
Speaker 10: such contexts.

2712
02:27:55,360 --> 02:27:57,680
Speaker 6: Were they reading Sterner in Panama?

2713
02:27:57,720 --> 02:28:00,600
Speaker 5: I'm not sure if they were readings Toner, I'm assuming so.

2714
02:28:00,800 --> 02:28:03,600
Speaker 10: Because otherwise how would they have come to identify with

2715
02:28:03,640 --> 02:28:07,800
Speaker 10: his philosophy. But they did launch a paper called Eluniko

2716
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:08,720
Speaker 10: in nineteen eleven.

2717
02:28:09,200 --> 02:28:11,960
Speaker 6: That's what I was wondering is if instead of like

2718
02:28:12,040 --> 02:28:15,880
Speaker 6: widely distributings actual books, like, was there like some like

2719
02:28:16,080 --> 02:28:20,040
Speaker 6: Sterner influence like newspaper that people were running. Yeah, yeah,

2720
02:28:20,320 --> 02:28:21,520
Speaker 6: because like that makes.

2721
02:28:21,320 --> 02:28:24,800
Speaker 10: Sense exactly exactly, some assuming some of the people either

2722
02:28:24,800 --> 02:28:27,560
Speaker 10: would have read Still abroad or they brought Still the Inn.

2723
02:28:28,480 --> 02:28:30,760
Speaker 10: And they were obviously inspired by it, and they were

2724
02:28:30,760 --> 02:28:34,360
Speaker 10: skeptical of this sort of mass movement sy Nicholas those

2725
02:28:34,440 --> 02:28:35,160
Speaker 10: popular at the time.

2726
02:28:35,440 --> 02:28:36,720
Speaker 6: Sure many people are.

2727
02:28:37,120 --> 02:28:40,320
Speaker 10: They were questioning its effectiveness as a strategy for anarchy.

2728
02:28:40,800 --> 02:28:42,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, And so they were.

2729
02:28:42,240 --> 02:28:46,320
Speaker 10: Focused primarily on organizing sort of smaller affiancy groups yep.

2730
02:28:46,480 --> 02:28:47,680
Speaker 5: And one of those groups.

2731
02:28:47,480 --> 02:28:50,480
Speaker 10: Ended up launching that paper, Elunico, to spread the ideas

2732
02:28:50,959 --> 02:28:54,000
Speaker 10: and obviously called itself an individualist publication.

2733
02:28:54,760 --> 02:28:59,120
Speaker 6: That's so funny, that's so emblematic of where we still

2734
02:28:59,240 --> 02:29:03,000
Speaker 6: are with it. Oh that's good, that's good.

2735
02:29:03,080 --> 02:29:03,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2736
02:29:03,480 --> 02:29:06,400
Speaker 10: I also think that this kind of diversity of thoughts

2737
02:29:06,480 --> 02:29:09,320
Speaker 10: and strategy is really really beautiful, and I'm glad to

2738
02:29:09,360 --> 02:29:14,160
Speaker 10: see it in almost unconventional and surprise enough contexts. It's

2739
02:29:14,160 --> 02:29:16,800
Speaker 10: why I consider myself an anarchist without adjectives, you know,

2740
02:29:16,920 --> 02:29:19,959
Speaker 10: I really absolutely yeah. I think we benefit greatly from

2741
02:29:20,040 --> 02:29:23,880
Speaker 10: conversation between these traditions and between these strategies, and so

2742
02:29:24,520 --> 02:29:27,760
Speaker 10: seeing that there were more than one form of anarchism

2743
02:29:28,480 --> 02:29:31,520
Speaker 10: in such a small context, it's really quite inspiring.

2744
02:29:31,879 --> 02:29:33,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, I am with you there.

2745
02:29:33,600 --> 02:29:35,120
Speaker 10: By the way, for those listeners who may not be

2746
02:29:35,200 --> 02:29:37,960
Speaker 10: familiar with the anarchist egoist tradition, I know that we're

2747
02:29:38,120 --> 02:29:40,320
Speaker 10: ego and egoism.

2748
02:29:39,920 --> 02:29:44,920
Speaker 6: Might conjure up some psychoanalytical Freudian.

2749
02:29:45,040 --> 02:29:48,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, it might bring some some some sort of feelings

2750
02:29:48,800 --> 02:29:53,800
Speaker 10: about capitalistic individualism or like extreme selfishness and that kind

2751
02:29:53,840 --> 02:29:56,320
Speaker 10: of thing, kind of like screw everybody except me. But

2752
02:29:57,040 --> 02:30:00,000
Speaker 10: it's actually a much deeper philosophical bent to anarchist egoist

2753
02:30:00,280 --> 02:30:02,800
Speaker 10: that I think everybody should give a chance. I actually

2754
02:30:02,879 --> 02:30:06,560
Speaker 10: recently read what is considered the first manifesto of anarchism,

2755
02:30:07,040 --> 02:30:09,960
Speaker 10: and it was written by this French anarchist named Anseel

2756
02:30:10,040 --> 02:30:14,200
Speaker 10: and Bella Garige, and he was actually an individualist anarchist,

2757
02:30:14,760 --> 02:30:17,200
Speaker 10: and you're actually in reading that end up seeing a

2758
02:30:17,280 --> 02:30:20,560
Speaker 10: lot of the influences that would later sort of develop

2759
02:30:20,680 --> 02:30:25,360
Speaker 10: further into anarchist individualism from the very beginning. You know,

2760
02:30:25,600 --> 02:30:29,600
Speaker 10: I highly recommend reading it. It's called Anarchy a Journal

2761
02:30:29,720 --> 02:30:32,800
Speaker 10: of Order. It's available on the Anarchist Library. It's a

2762
02:30:32,840 --> 02:30:36,720
Speaker 10: surprisingly contemporary piece in my opinion, and it was translated

2763
02:30:36,840 --> 02:30:40,720
Speaker 10: by Sean Wilbow's another anarchist scholar who I'm really inspired

2764
02:30:40,720 --> 02:30:43,800
Speaker 10: by lately, and it really gets into some of the

2765
02:30:43,920 --> 02:30:46,760
Speaker 10: ideas that I think we've forgotten in terms of what

2766
02:30:47,080 --> 02:30:52,040
Speaker 10: it takes to achieve the complete liberation of all people.

2767
02:30:52,640 --> 02:30:55,320
Speaker 6: So that's Anarchy a Journal of Order.

2768
02:30:55,720 --> 02:30:58,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, Anarchy a Journal of Order. He ended up not

2769
02:30:59,560 --> 02:31:02,840
Speaker 10: published in more than two issues due to low readership.

2770
02:31:03,040 --> 02:31:06,000
Speaker 10: But that's what happens, I think when any such cases,

2771
02:31:06,280 --> 02:31:08,080
Speaker 10: many such cases, many such cases.

2772
02:31:08,560 --> 02:31:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2773
02:31:08,760 --> 02:31:10,440
Speaker 6: I will pull that up on the anarchas Library and

2774
02:31:10,520 --> 02:31:11,520
Speaker 6: give that a read myself.

2775
02:31:12,959 --> 02:31:15,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, it happens when you're ahead of the times in

2776
02:31:15,320 --> 02:31:18,200
Speaker 10: a sense, and he actually ends up becoming at least

2777
02:31:18,240 --> 02:31:21,160
Speaker 10: partially relevant to the next episode I'm going to do

2778
02:31:21,240 --> 02:31:24,879
Speaker 10: on the Latin America Anarchism series, because he ends up

2779
02:31:24,879 --> 02:31:27,120
Speaker 10: making his way to Latin America at one point in

2780
02:31:27,200 --> 02:31:27,600
Speaker 10: his life.

2781
02:31:28,160 --> 02:31:31,680
Speaker 5: In fact, he dies in Latin America, but we will

2782
02:31:31,720 --> 02:31:33,080
Speaker 5: get to that in time.

2783
02:31:43,080 --> 02:31:47,519
Speaker 10: Finally returned to Venezuela as the late nineteenth century refugees

2784
02:31:47,600 --> 02:31:51,760
Speaker 10: from the Field Paris Commune arrived in Caracas, bringing with

2785
02:31:51,879 --> 02:31:55,119
Speaker 10: them the radical spirit of the International working Men's Association.

2786
02:31:55,840 --> 02:31:59,920
Speaker 10: From a few of these immigrants, small anarchist cells emerged,

2787
02:32:00,480 --> 02:32:03,360
Speaker 10: but they were stifled by the brutal dictatorship of Juan

2788
02:32:03,520 --> 02:32:06,560
Speaker 10: Vincente Gomez from eighteen ninety nine to nineteen thirty five.

2789
02:32:07,320 --> 02:32:08,360
Speaker 5: So few in number.

2790
02:32:08,480 --> 02:32:12,320
Speaker 10: The anarchist immigrant efforts to form mutual societies, organized strikes,

2791
02:32:12,360 --> 02:32:16,160
Speaker 10: and spread propaganda gained them a notoriety that put a

2792
02:32:16,320 --> 02:32:19,880
Speaker 10: massive bullseye on them. For Gomez's persecution, he had a

2793
02:32:19,920 --> 02:32:23,920
Speaker 10: midster oppression. A few sparks of anarchism did survive in

2794
02:32:24,000 --> 02:32:27,920
Speaker 10: the cultural fabric. Writers like Migueli Guardo Parlo portrayed anarchists

2795
02:32:28,040 --> 02:32:33,320
Speaker 10: as spiritual revolutionaries, lacking them to saints sounds familiar, does

2796
02:32:33,440 --> 02:32:38,640
Speaker 10: sound very familiar, Yes, if you know, back in the

2797
02:32:38,720 --> 02:32:43,120
Speaker 10: days of Saint andrew'sm There you Go. But his novel

2798
02:32:43,360 --> 02:32:47,560
Speaker 10: Toto and Pueblo described anarchists as apostles of justice, which

2799
02:32:47,640 --> 02:32:51,000
Speaker 10: is really fire title, I must say, as they carried

2800
02:32:51,120 --> 02:32:53,480
Speaker 10: the flame of liberty into the streets.

2801
02:32:53,879 --> 02:32:55,080
Speaker 5: But it wasn't all pros.

2802
02:32:55,240 --> 02:32:58,720
Speaker 10: The early twentieth century also saw a spike in industrial strikes.

2803
02:32:58,959 --> 02:33:02,279
Speaker 10: In nineteen eighteen, for example, a pivotal strike involving transit

2804
02:33:02,400 --> 02:33:06,680
Speaker 10: workers included at least one known Italian anarchist named Vincenzo Kusati.

2805
02:33:07,200 --> 02:33:10,520
Speaker 10: Although defeated, the strike left a mark in the country's consciousness.

2806
02:33:11,040 --> 02:33:14,000
Speaker 10: Inspired by such as Strive for Freedom. Workers united through

2807
02:33:14,080 --> 02:33:17,560
Speaker 10: various mutual aid societies which they were disguised as religious skills,

2808
02:33:18,280 --> 02:33:23,880
Speaker 10: the anarchist influence quietly spread among bakers, bricklayers, and oil workers. Truly,

2809
02:33:23,920 --> 02:33:25,800
Speaker 10: it was the oil boom of the nineteen twenties that

2810
02:33:25,959 --> 02:33:29,440
Speaker 10: reshieed Venice Whelan society, and of course continues to affect

2811
02:33:29,480 --> 02:33:32,960
Speaker 10: it today. While anarchistiniclist maintained underground networks in the grown

2812
02:33:33,000 --> 02:33:36,520
Speaker 10: oil sector, state and corporate power proved to be too

2813
02:33:36,879 --> 02:33:39,600
Speaker 10: much By the mid twentieth century, after the fall of

2814
02:33:39,640 --> 02:33:43,240
Speaker 10: Gomez's regime, the rise of political parties like Acxio Democratica

2815
02:33:43,600 --> 02:33:46,280
Speaker 10: cooperted many of the workers who might have otherwise embraced

2816
02:33:46,280 --> 02:33:51,080
Speaker 10: anarchist syndicalism and anarchist ideals became increasingly marginalized, eclipsed by

2817
02:33:51,280 --> 02:33:55,200
Speaker 10: party politics and state repression between nineteen thirty six to

2818
02:33:55,280 --> 02:33:58,160
Speaker 10: nineteen forty five. In fact, anarchist repression also gained a

2819
02:33:58,280 --> 02:34:01,880
Speaker 10: constitutional footing in the four of the Lara Law, which

2820
02:34:02,000 --> 02:34:05,240
Speaker 10: band strikes, associations meeting through a permission from the state,

2821
02:34:05,320 --> 02:34:09,720
Speaker 10: political propaganda, and basically all the usual datatorial stuff. After

2822
02:34:09,760 --> 02:34:12,200
Speaker 10: the Spanish Civil War and the rise of Franco more

2823
02:34:12,240 --> 02:34:14,279
Speaker 10: Spanish anarchist immigrants came to Venezuela.

2824
02:34:14,320 --> 02:34:15,680
Speaker 5: You see, I said they would be relevant.

2825
02:34:15,920 --> 02:34:21,480
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, but they didn't end up impacting Venezuela so

2826
02:34:21,680 --> 02:34:25,480
Speaker 10: much As immigrants, they ended up creating a mostly self

2827
02:34:25,560 --> 02:34:30,480
Speaker 10: contained scene, apparently through the founding of the Federacion Obrerariqunal

2828
02:34:30,720 --> 02:34:33,880
Speaker 10: Venezuelana in nineteen fifty eight, which was affiliated to the

2829
02:34:33,959 --> 02:34:38,520
Speaker 10: International Workers Association, But as I said, did make much

2830
02:34:38,560 --> 02:34:41,400
Speaker 10: of a splash in the port of Venezuelan population, they

2831
02:34:41,480 --> 02:34:45,520
Speaker 10: mostly affected other Spanish immigrants, so anarchist n neover developed

2832
02:34:45,560 --> 02:34:49,640
Speaker 10: into an explicitly mass movement in Venezuela, but elements of

2833
02:34:49,720 --> 02:34:52,640
Speaker 10: it did persist, and the unield in pursuit of freedom

2834
02:34:53,120 --> 02:34:56,560
Speaker 10: were still felt even in the harshest of conditions. So

2835
02:34:56,640 --> 02:34:59,640
Speaker 10: looking today at the countries that composed the former Grand Columbia,

2836
02:35:00,080 --> 02:35:03,880
Speaker 10: I would argue that the spark of anarchism still hasn't died.

2837
02:35:04,560 --> 02:35:08,560
Speaker 10: On Ecuador, uprisings continue to challenge extractive economies and demand

2838
02:35:08,680 --> 02:35:12,360
Speaker 10: autonomous control over renditionous territories, and some anarchist collectives are

2839
02:35:12,400 --> 02:35:16,240
Speaker 10: active in solidarity, providing logistical support during protests and pushing

2840
02:35:16,320 --> 02:35:20,080
Speaker 10: horizontal forms of organizing in the broader social struggle. After

2841
02:35:20,120 --> 02:35:23,080
Speaker 10: the twenty twenty one national strike in Columbia, some anarchist

2842
02:35:23,120 --> 02:35:27,359
Speaker 10: practices have begun to infuse movements against police brutality, privatization,

2843
02:35:27,520 --> 02:35:30,720
Speaker 10: and austerity measures. Mutual aid networks have all same emerged

2844
02:35:30,760 --> 02:35:33,879
Speaker 10: inspired by anarchist practice to support the community's hit hardest

2845
02:35:34,120 --> 02:35:38,920
Speaker 10: by economic crises. In Panama, anarchism exists on the fringes,

2846
02:35:39,640 --> 02:35:42,800
Speaker 10: but it has the potential to provide inspiration to those

2847
02:35:42,920 --> 02:35:46,760
Speaker 10: who are actively confronting the liberal policies, advocating for workers'

2848
02:35:46,800 --> 02:35:50,959
Speaker 10: rights and engaging in anti corporate actions. Finally, in Venezuela,

2849
02:35:51,440 --> 02:35:54,680
Speaker 10: economic collapse and authoritarianism of created space for anarchist ideals

2850
02:35:54,720 --> 02:35:59,119
Speaker 10: to spread through grassroots initiatives, mutual aid and self organized

2851
02:35:59,120 --> 02:36:01,959
Speaker 10: community groups have stepped in where the state has failed.

2852
02:36:03,040 --> 02:36:08,959
Speaker 10: Across these countries, an ideas still have potency. And really

2853
02:36:09,040 --> 02:36:12,240
Speaker 10: my hope is at these places continue to explore the

2854
02:36:12,640 --> 02:36:17,920
Speaker 10: creativity and solidarity that are necessary for liberation, that they

2855
02:36:18,360 --> 02:36:21,720
Speaker 10: continue to struggle and they go further still. You know,

2856
02:36:21,920 --> 02:36:26,640
Speaker 10: Viva I labored that or power to all the people. Peace,

2857
02:36:48,320 --> 02:36:51,480
Speaker 10: Hello and welcome, take it up. And here I'm Andrew Sage.

2858
02:36:51,760 --> 02:36:53,760
Speaker 10: I'm also Androwism on YouTube.

2859
02:36:54,080 --> 02:36:57,760
Speaker 6: And I'm here once again with Garrison Davis. Happy to

2860
02:36:57,840 --> 02:36:59,320
Speaker 6: be here, happy.

2861
02:36:59,080 --> 02:37:01,840
Speaker 10: To have here, and we're going to continue our journey

2862
02:37:01,920 --> 02:37:06,800
Speaker 10: through Latin American anarchisms and their histories. We've already discussed Peru, Chile,

2863
02:37:07,080 --> 02:37:12,240
Speaker 10: Argentina and Brazil, Paraguay, Cuba, Douapuce Struggle, Ecuador, Columbia, Panama,

2864
02:37:12,560 --> 02:37:15,720
Speaker 10: and Venezuela. And so there are just a few territories

2865
02:37:15,800 --> 02:37:18,960
Speaker 10: left that are considered Latin America, So just before we

2866
02:37:19,040 --> 02:37:23,400
Speaker 10: get to Mexico and Uruguay and possibly even Quebec, I

2867
02:37:23,480 --> 02:37:26,040
Speaker 10: wanted to round up all the anarchist histories in the

2868
02:37:26,160 --> 02:37:26,920
Speaker 10: smaller states.

2869
02:37:28,080 --> 02:37:32,600
Speaker 6: You're not wrong, but it still is funny, yeah, Quebec.

2870
02:37:32,800 --> 02:37:37,879
Speaker 10: I mean, honestly, you could say the same for like Haiti, Guadeloupe, Martinique.

2871
02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:41,560
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, I mean there's even a lot of anarchists

2872
02:37:41,560 --> 02:37:46,000
Speaker 6: in Montreal today as a as a booming anarchist movement,

2873
02:37:46,240 --> 02:37:48,519
Speaker 6: But it still is a little funny.

2874
02:37:48,840 --> 02:37:49,280
Speaker 14: Right, Yeah.

2875
02:37:49,760 --> 02:37:49,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2876
02:37:50,560 --> 02:37:54,560
Speaker 10: I actually wanted to include explorations of Haiti and in Guadelupe,

2877
02:37:54,600 --> 02:37:59,880
Speaker 10: Martinique in this episode, since it's you know, fairly small

2878
02:38:00,000 --> 02:38:03,040
Speaker 10: anarchist movements there. But I mean, I suppose I could

2879
02:38:03,120 --> 02:38:08,640
Speaker 10: just summarize it one time, which is that Martinique had

2880
02:38:08,680 --> 02:38:11,039
Speaker 10: a section of the International at one point in eighteen

2881
02:38:11,080 --> 02:38:13,879
Speaker 10: ninety five. There was also a branch of the International

2882
02:38:14,200 --> 02:38:17,200
Speaker 10: in eighteen sixty six on the island of Guadeloup, and

2883
02:38:17,760 --> 02:38:20,240
Speaker 10: it's very difficult to establish whether there were any anarchist

2884
02:38:20,280 --> 02:38:24,800
Speaker 10: groups in Heiti. Ever, from my research there there was

2885
02:38:25,160 --> 02:38:28,440
Speaker 10: an appearance of socialism more broadly as part of the

2886
02:38:29,000 --> 02:38:32,240
Speaker 10: struggle against domination and taking place in the country. But

2887
02:38:33,320 --> 02:38:36,680
Speaker 10: the dictato ships of Haiti have made those kinds of

2888
02:38:36,760 --> 02:38:40,959
Speaker 10: movements very difficult to spring out and thrive.

2889
02:38:41,400 --> 02:38:42,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, I can see that.

2890
02:38:43,480 --> 02:38:46,600
Speaker 10: But today we're going to be focusing on the anarchist

2891
02:38:46,680 --> 02:38:49,160
Speaker 10: histories and the rest of the smaller states of Central

2892
02:38:49,200 --> 02:38:51,320
Speaker 10: America and the Caribbean. So we'll be covering the sparks

2893
02:38:51,360 --> 02:38:56,320
Speaker 10: of anarchism in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvor, Guatemala,

2894
02:38:56,560 --> 02:39:00,000
Speaker 10: Dimerican Republic, and Puerto Rico. And as with previous episode,

2895
02:39:00,040 --> 02:39:03,480
Speaker 10: zosis is all possible thanks to health, capitaleties. Exhaustive work

2896
02:39:03,840 --> 02:39:07,680
Speaker 10: titled Anarchism in Latin America, Bleming said, the scene first

2897
02:39:07,760 --> 02:39:11,800
Speaker 10: and foremost across the lush rainforests and turquoise seas of

2898
02:39:11,840 --> 02:39:15,680
Speaker 10: Central America. Historically, there were several indigenous peoples that have

2899
02:39:15,800 --> 02:39:18,840
Speaker 10: called at home, and that home was violated in the

2900
02:39:18,879 --> 02:39:23,600
Speaker 10: early sixteenth century as Spanish conquistadors carved bloody paths through

2901
02:39:23,600 --> 02:39:26,520
Speaker 10: the region, replacing the ones fiber and pre colonial societies

2902
02:39:26,560 --> 02:39:29,920
Speaker 10: with the feuder like arrangements of the incomeendo system, which

2903
02:39:30,040 --> 02:39:34,320
Speaker 10: forced indigenous peoples into labor under Spanish landowners. The colonial

2904
02:39:34,400 --> 02:39:37,039
Speaker 10: eras of the rise of vast plantations for cash crops

2905
02:39:37,120 --> 02:39:41,080
Speaker 10: like cocoa, indigo, and later coffee Inhrition a small elite,

2906
02:39:41,160 --> 02:39:45,360
Speaker 10: while indigenous and after descendant populations endured brutal oppression over

2907
02:39:45,400 --> 02:39:48,360
Speaker 10: the centuries. Fast forward to the early nineteenth century, and

2908
02:39:48,480 --> 02:39:52,080
Speaker 10: the wave of independence sweeping across Latin America reached Central America.

2909
02:39:52,800 --> 02:39:56,039
Speaker 10: In eighteen twenty one, the region officially threw off Spanish rule,

2910
02:39:56,080 --> 02:39:59,040
Speaker 10: and in eighteen twenty three, Central America gained its independence

2911
02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:02,039
Speaker 10: from the Mexican Empire. For a fleet in moment from

2912
02:40:02,080 --> 02:40:05,359
Speaker 10: eighteen twenty three to eighteen thirty nine, Central America united

2913
02:40:05,480 --> 02:40:08,720
Speaker 10: as the Federal Republic of Central America, modeled after the

2914
02:40:08,840 --> 02:40:14,160
Speaker 10: US Constitution, and encompass in modern day Guatemala, Honduras, Salvador, Nicaragua,

2915
02:40:14,280 --> 02:40:17,440
Speaker 10: and Costa Rica. Whe By eighteen thirty eight, the cracks

2916
02:40:17,480 --> 02:40:19,560
Speaker 10: in the federation would become in too large to ignore.

2917
02:40:20,200 --> 02:40:22,280
Speaker 10: I mean, for most of its existence, the capital of

2918
02:40:22,320 --> 02:40:25,600
Speaker 10: the country alternated between Guatemala City and San Southador, so

2919
02:40:25,640 --> 02:40:29,040
Speaker 10: they couldn't even decide on that. Liberals and conservatives were

2920
02:40:29,040 --> 02:40:33,480
Speaker 10: also split on the economy, centralization versus decentralization, and the

2921
02:40:33,560 --> 02:40:37,040
Speaker 10: role of the Catholic Church, and Guatemala was kind of

2922
02:40:37,120 --> 02:40:41,400
Speaker 10: resented by the other states because it had such disproportionate influence.

2923
02:40:42,240 --> 02:40:45,760
Speaker 10: So political infighting and regional rivalries eventually caused the Union

2924
02:40:45,879 --> 02:40:49,640
Speaker 10: to splinter. Each state went its own way. But the

2925
02:40:49,720 --> 02:40:51,680
Speaker 10: collapse of the federation wasn't the end of the story,

2926
02:40:51,760 --> 02:40:54,760
Speaker 10: as seas of resistance would sprout across the former territory

2927
02:40:54,840 --> 02:40:58,920
Speaker 10: of the Republic. And among those seeds with the anarchists.

2928
02:40:59,560 --> 02:41:02,560
Speaker 10: Let's start from Costa Rica and head north. In nearly

2929
02:41:02,640 --> 02:41:05,840
Speaker 10: nineteen hundreds, in Costa Rica, you had libertarian newspapers popping

2930
02:41:05,959 --> 02:41:08,160
Speaker 10: up all over the place as usual.

2931
02:41:08,600 --> 02:41:13,040
Speaker 6: And when you say libertarian, you don't necessarily.

2932
02:41:13,480 --> 02:41:16,800
Speaker 10: I mean anarchists. Yes, yeah, I refuse let them appropriate

2933
02:41:16,879 --> 02:41:22,560
Speaker 10: that to it. Yes, so you had names like Eleora

2934
02:41:22,680 --> 02:41:26,760
Speaker 10: social Eldra Bajo, and Ralucha, which were aquin the struggles

2935
02:41:26,920 --> 02:41:31,280
Speaker 10: of local workers and the cross continental knowledge of international discourses.

2936
02:41:31,959 --> 02:41:35,480
Speaker 10: But even before these publications, would you believe there was

2937
02:41:35,640 --> 02:41:38,200
Speaker 10: enough anarchist danger to stay up the establishment?

2938
02:41:38,520 --> 02:41:42,680
Speaker 6: A very little anarchist danger is enough anarchy danger history

2939
02:41:42,760 --> 02:41:44,360
Speaker 6: of the establishment.

2940
02:41:43,920 --> 02:41:47,680
Speaker 10: No, But to tell you how unsettled the establishment was.

2941
02:41:48,920 --> 02:41:51,160
Speaker 10: So you know, we're recording this a couple of weeks

2942
02:41:51,200 --> 02:41:52,320
Speaker 10: before Christmas.

2943
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:53,880
Speaker 6: Right, yes, this is going to come out I think

2944
02:41:54,000 --> 02:41:55,600
Speaker 6: right after New Year's Okay.

2945
02:41:55,640 --> 02:41:57,640
Speaker 10: And I don't know if you've gone to change for

2946
02:41:57,760 --> 02:42:00,760
Speaker 10: Christmas before. If that's the thing that you've done, I have,

2947
02:42:00,959 --> 02:42:07,880
Speaker 10: I okay, I have as well. And imagine eighteen ninety two, go,

2948
02:42:08,680 --> 02:42:11,720
Speaker 10: it's Christmas time, you going to church, You sit down

2949
02:42:11,840 --> 02:42:13,640
Speaker 10: to get your little you know, he's supposed to keep

2950
02:42:13,680 --> 02:42:16,600
Speaker 10: the sermon short and sweet, let people get home to

2951
02:42:16,680 --> 02:42:19,800
Speaker 10: do what they have to do. Right, But in eighteen

2952
02:42:19,879 --> 02:42:23,000
Speaker 10: ninety two, Bishop Field decided to use his Christmas sermon

2953
02:42:24,040 --> 02:42:25,360
Speaker 10: to one against anarchists.

2954
02:42:26,640 --> 02:42:27,840
Speaker 6: That that's pretty funny.

2955
02:42:28,320 --> 02:42:29,959
Speaker 10: Like imagine you're just trying to go home at each

2956
02:42:30,000 --> 02:42:31,840
Speaker 10: a Christmas lunch and you have to listen to this

2957
02:42:31,959 --> 02:42:35,200
Speaker 10: guy preach against like these are radical anarchists to come

2958
02:42:35,280 --> 02:42:36,960
Speaker 10: into mess of the country.

2959
02:42:37,080 --> 02:42:40,320
Speaker 6: They're giving out food, they're healing the sick there.

2960
02:42:41,200 --> 02:42:43,879
Speaker 10: I mean to be fair, the anarchists at the time

2961
02:42:43,959 --> 02:42:47,640
Speaker 10: were generally a threat to the to the clerical establishment.

2962
02:42:47,400 --> 02:42:51,640
Speaker 6: Sure, of course, as was our Lord and Savior Jesus

2963
02:42:51,720 --> 02:42:56,199
Speaker 6: age Christ Jesus and his affinity group of twelve traveling

2964
02:42:56,240 --> 02:43:00,959
Speaker 6: around the countryside stirring up all kinds of trouble, indeed

2965
02:43:01,200 --> 02:43:05,920
Speaker 6: indeed seeding revolt against the Roman Empire. We gotta stop them.

2966
02:43:06,600 --> 02:43:09,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, rush, That's the whole kind of rooms

2967
02:43:09,320 --> 02:43:14,720
Speaker 10: I could have get into, right there, sure is. Yeah,

2968
02:43:14,720 --> 02:43:17,200
Speaker 10: I mean, I mean seriously, Christianity went from being a

2969
02:43:17,280 --> 02:43:21,040
Speaker 10: response to the Roman Empire to be in the Roman Empire,

2970
02:43:21,600 --> 02:43:23,840
Speaker 10: and that is like one of the biggest down creates

2971
02:43:23,840 --> 02:43:25,160
Speaker 10: of the millennia. Yeah.

2972
02:43:25,240 --> 02:43:28,440
Speaker 6: No, it's a super successful recuperation. And that's why I

2973
02:43:28,560 --> 02:43:32,119
Speaker 6: do find as much as it has some problems, liberation theology,

2974
02:43:32,640 --> 02:43:35,560
Speaker 6: especially the version in the South, to be kind of compelling.

2975
02:43:35,959 --> 02:43:39,680
Speaker 6: I wouldn't consider myself a Christian necessarily, but as of

2976
02:43:39,920 --> 02:43:43,280
Speaker 6: like a religious sect goes, I am interested in in

2977
02:43:43,400 --> 02:43:46,720
Speaker 6: what liberation theology kind of does and how it tries

2978
02:43:46,800 --> 02:43:51,000
Speaker 6: to reradicalize forms of Christianity for sure.

2979
02:43:51,400 --> 02:43:55,959
Speaker 5: For sure I have some concerns about it another strands

2980
02:43:56,040 --> 02:44:00,680
Speaker 5: of Christianicism, same as somebody who grows Yeah.

2981
02:44:00,840 --> 02:44:01,080
Speaker 6: Same.

2982
02:44:01,680 --> 02:44:03,959
Speaker 10: But of course this is not the place to digress

2983
02:44:04,600 --> 02:44:07,480
Speaker 10: about that toffic as we do have quite a few

2984
02:44:07,520 --> 02:44:08,280
Speaker 10: countries to cover.

2985
02:44:09,560 --> 02:44:11,680
Speaker 5: So the cost three Ecan anarchists were not just.

2986
02:44:11,879 --> 02:44:17,840
Speaker 10: Being called out by the bishops, bishops, you know, they

2987
02:44:17,879 --> 02:44:21,160
Speaker 10: were also struggling, you know, print eight hour workday, such

2988
02:44:21,160 --> 02:44:23,640
Speaker 10: as with the Baker strike in nineteen oh five, and

2989
02:44:23,680 --> 02:44:27,600
Speaker 10: they would also demonstrate against the assassination of anarchists educator

2990
02:44:27,640 --> 02:44:31,640
Speaker 10: Francisco Ferrere. They were also found the Center Day Studio

2991
02:44:31,640 --> 02:44:35,560
Speaker 10: Associatist Criminal, which was a collective of intellectuals and workers

2992
02:44:35,600 --> 02:44:40,080
Speaker 10: who focused on study and expanded upon anarchism. At nineteen eleven,

2993
02:44:40,160 --> 02:44:44,080
Speaker 10: they would launched the journal Renovacion, which lasted an impressive

2994
02:44:44,280 --> 02:44:48,680
Speaker 10: seventy plus issues. They helped organize Costa Rica's first May

2995
02:44:48,720 --> 02:44:52,280
Speaker 10: Day celebration in nineteen thirteen and he resilate. As in

2996
02:44:52,280 --> 02:44:56,280
Speaker 10: the nineteen twenties, groups explicitly formed for libertarian action, but

2997
02:44:56,400 --> 02:44:58,680
Speaker 10: unfortunately the anarchist influence wouldn't be as impactful in the

2998
02:44:58,720 --> 02:45:01,280
Speaker 10: country heading into the mid twenty youth century, as the

2999
02:45:01,320 --> 02:45:05,280
Speaker 10: country faced two dictatorships. However, the defeat of the latter

3000
02:45:05,480 --> 02:45:08,680
Speaker 10: in nineteen forty nine actually ushered in the most peaceful

3001
02:45:08,840 --> 02:45:12,840
Speaker 10: and stable political situation in all of Latin America. I

3002
02:45:13,000 --> 02:45:16,080
Speaker 10: suppose that might be because the democratic government that followed

3003
02:45:16,280 --> 02:45:20,400
Speaker 10: didn't transgress US interests. They do have a US military

3004
02:45:20,440 --> 02:45:24,120
Speaker 10: base in the country after all. But let me not

3005
02:45:24,160 --> 02:45:25,040
Speaker 10: expeculate too much.

3006
02:45:26,000 --> 02:45:29,119
Speaker 6: Look who doesn't have a US military base these days?

3007
02:45:29,240 --> 02:45:31,400
Speaker 5: Come on, cut them some sack.

3008
02:45:32,840 --> 02:45:38,439
Speaker 6: That's right, that's right, Andrew. I thought you were pro internationalism,

3009
02:45:38,800 --> 02:45:39,560
Speaker 6: but here we go.

3010
02:45:40,280 --> 02:45:41,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, look at this.

3011
02:45:41,720 --> 02:45:46,800
Speaker 10: Look at this, this this parochio backwards regressive. You're telling

3012
02:45:46,840 --> 02:45:49,640
Speaker 10: me you don't want boots on the ground in your country.

3013
02:45:51,760 --> 02:45:54,920
Speaker 6: Globe emoji in bio version of internationalism.

3014
02:46:08,280 --> 02:46:10,200
Speaker 5: So moving on north to Nicaragua.

3015
02:46:10,600 --> 02:46:13,200
Speaker 10: The spark of labor organization began to flicker in the

3016
02:46:13,240 --> 02:46:17,080
Speaker 10: early nineteen hundreds, but there's little evidence of any anarchists

3017
02:46:17,160 --> 02:46:22,480
Speaker 10: specific influence. In nineteen eighteen, the Federalsti Nicaraguenes, or the

3018
02:46:22,640 --> 02:46:26,800
Speaker 10: fo N, emerged and pulled together various mutual societies from

3019
02:46:26,800 --> 02:46:30,879
Speaker 10: across the country, from shoemakers to bakers to tailors, from

3020
02:46:30,959 --> 02:46:35,040
Speaker 10: Leon to Managua. But this federation wasn't anarchists and character

3021
02:46:35,879 --> 02:46:38,760
Speaker 10: both conservative and liberal elites actually tried to use these

3022
02:46:38,800 --> 02:46:41,600
Speaker 10: workers groups with their own ends within the fo When

3023
02:46:41,720 --> 02:46:44,560
Speaker 10: the group of Socialista ended up emerging as a rebel

3024
02:46:44,640 --> 02:46:48,320
Speaker 10: force to challenge these elites and their influence in the workers' movements,

3025
02:46:48,920 --> 02:46:52,000
Speaker 10: but even that rebel group was a reformist in nature.

3026
02:46:52,680 --> 02:46:57,000
Speaker 10: Now it is possible that libertarians from Spain and Mexico

3027
02:46:57,080 --> 02:46:59,720
Speaker 10: played roles in the Steve Drow strikes of nineteen nineteen

3028
02:47:00,040 --> 02:47:03,200
Speaker 10: in Corindo, which was Nicragu's major port city, but a

3029
02:47:03,240 --> 02:47:06,240
Speaker 10: caste for Shure for my research, we do know that

3030
02:47:06,280 --> 02:47:10,000
Speaker 10: at least one influential person was perhaps inspired by anarchism,

3031
02:47:10,560 --> 02:47:14,519
Speaker 10: and that was Augusto Sandino, the leader of the Sandinista

3032
02:47:14,560 --> 02:47:18,600
Speaker 10: rebellion against the US occupation of Nicagua. Sandino worked alongside

3033
02:47:18,600 --> 02:47:22,160
Speaker 10: anarchists during his time in exile in Mexico. Unit's revolution

3034
02:47:22,760 --> 02:47:25,520
Speaker 10: and the red and black of the Sandinistas actually came

3035
02:47:25,680 --> 02:47:29,360
Speaker 10: from that anarchist influence. By the nineteen thirties, after the

3036
02:47:29,480 --> 02:47:32,480
Speaker 10: US withdrawal, the labor movement had to navigate the Soumotza

3037
02:47:32,560 --> 02:47:35,760
Speaker 10: family dictatorship, which was marked by the severe oppression of

3038
02:47:35,840 --> 02:47:40,040
Speaker 10: anything that even smelled red. Even in the face of

3039
02:47:40,120 --> 02:47:44,480
Speaker 10: state violence, unions and workers' groups continued to organize, laying

3040
02:47:44,520 --> 02:47:48,200
Speaker 10: the groundwork for future resistance, including the eventual Sandinista revolution

3041
02:47:48,320 --> 02:47:52,320
Speaker 10: that overthrew the Somozas. In the late seventies, some social

3042
02:47:52,400 --> 02:47:55,400
Speaker 10: progress was then possible in the country, but it was

3043
02:47:55,400 --> 02:47:58,720
Speaker 10: still marred by corruption and authoritarianism, made worse by the

3044
02:47:58,800 --> 02:48:01,440
Speaker 10: reelection of Daniel or Day in two thousand and six.

3045
02:48:02,360 --> 02:48:05,120
Speaker 10: He still holds the presidency in Nicaragua to this d

3046
02:48:05,840 --> 02:48:08,080
Speaker 10: managing to steave off this swell of protest against him

3047
02:48:08,120 --> 02:48:11,760
Speaker 10: between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty, of which anarchists, however

3048
02:48:11,840 --> 02:48:16,200
Speaker 10: small number did indeed take part. If weteen to Hounduras. Now,

3049
02:48:16,640 --> 02:48:18,800
Speaker 10: there's not too much to say about anarchists so again,

3050
02:48:19,280 --> 02:48:23,040
Speaker 10: but Honduras did have a vibrant label movement. In eighteen ninety,

3051
02:48:23,200 --> 02:48:26,000
Speaker 10: La Democracia, one of the country's first mutual laid societies,

3052
02:48:26,000 --> 02:48:28,840
Speaker 10: emerged with a cooperative spirit that laid the foundation for

3053
02:48:29,120 --> 02:48:32,119
Speaker 10: was to come. By the early twentieth century, the workers

3054
02:48:32,160 --> 02:48:34,640
Speaker 10: move when in Honduras had begun to heat up even more,

3055
02:48:35,040 --> 02:48:38,400
Speaker 10: particularly among miners and banana plantation laborers, two groups that

3056
02:48:38,440 --> 02:48:42,000
Speaker 10: were central to the country's economy. In March nineteen o nine,

3057
02:48:42,440 --> 02:48:47,800
Speaker 10: miners struck against brutal conditions and poverty wages. The response Garson,

3058
02:48:47,879 --> 02:48:52,760
Speaker 10: maybe you can guess bad things, violent, brutal repression and

3059
02:48:52,800 --> 02:48:53,720
Speaker 10: ding ding ding ding thing.

3060
02:48:54,480 --> 02:48:57,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, that is that is you know what I was assuming,

3061
02:48:57,560 --> 02:48:59,160
Speaker 6: but I didn't want to, you know, make a fool

3062
02:48:59,200 --> 02:48:59,840
Speaker 6: out of myself.

3063
02:49:00,240 --> 02:49:05,160
Speaker 10: Nineteen sixteen banana plantation workers at the Quim Food Company.

3064
02:49:05,640 --> 02:49:08,680
Speaker 6: What was their response, Oh, violence, murder.

3065
02:49:09,480 --> 02:49:15,280
Speaker 10: I assume Dinging, ding Ding four hundred strikers were four

3066
02:49:15,360 --> 02:49:19,200
Speaker 10: hundred strikers were arrested and imprisoned in the infamous Castillo

3067
02:49:19,480 --> 02:49:22,560
Speaker 10: de Moor. I didn't see any epvidence of mass deaths

3068
02:49:22,640 --> 02:49:23,920
Speaker 10: in this particular case.

3069
02:49:23,800 --> 02:49:27,680
Speaker 6: Which is honestly progressive considering the time. I don't know.

3070
02:49:28,040 --> 02:49:31,960
Speaker 10: Mass incarceration not really that much better. I mean, they

3071
02:49:32,040 --> 02:49:38,400
Speaker 10: literally got in prisoned in this castle, dungeon jail. Not

3072
02:49:39,040 --> 02:49:42,080
Speaker 10: something I would want to be rats, nibblermetric tools and

3073
02:49:42,120 --> 02:49:42,600
Speaker 10: stuff like that.

3074
02:49:42,760 --> 02:49:43,680
Speaker 12: You know, no, no.

3075
02:49:44,640 --> 02:49:44,680
Speaker 9: So.

3076
02:49:45,000 --> 02:49:48,520
Speaker 10: Following these early twentieth century strikes, workers gradually began to

3077
02:49:48,600 --> 02:49:51,200
Speaker 10: build some momentum when they fight for rights, particularly during

3078
02:49:51,200 --> 02:49:54,400
Speaker 10: the nineteen fifty four General Strike against the US banana companies.

3079
02:49:55,120 --> 02:49:57,760
Speaker 10: This strike led to significant gains, including the legal right

3080
02:49:57,840 --> 02:50:00,440
Speaker 10: to organize and the emergence of a more he afide

3081
02:50:00,600 --> 02:50:05,760
Speaker 10: labor movement. Now will anarchists involve these movements as possible,

3082
02:50:06,440 --> 02:50:09,400
Speaker 10: as movements do bear much of the language and hallmarks

3083
02:50:09,440 --> 02:50:12,600
Speaker 10: of the anarchist cynicalis thought at the time, but identify

3084
02:50:12,680 --> 02:50:15,280
Speaker 10: specific names as difficult, and there doesn't seem to be

3085
02:50:15,280 --> 02:50:17,320
Speaker 10: any evidence of specifically anarchist groups.

3086
02:50:17,640 --> 02:50:19,240
Speaker 5: In the early labor history of the country.

3087
02:50:19,720 --> 02:50:22,480
Speaker 10: As in other parts of Central America, it appears that

3088
02:50:22,720 --> 02:50:25,680
Speaker 10: Marxists had a bit more influence in their struggles. In

3089
02:50:25,760 --> 02:50:28,960
Speaker 10: response to the workers gains, the US backed military coups

3090
02:50:28,959 --> 02:50:32,360
Speaker 10: of roles to counter that progress. The nineteen sixty three

3091
02:50:32,440 --> 02:50:35,760
Speaker 10: coup against President Harmone vieda Morales usher in decades of

3092
02:50:35,800 --> 02:50:41,080
Speaker 10: military rule which stifled labor movements and pleasant movements, often violently.

3093
02:50:42,080 --> 02:50:45,200
Speaker 10: During the nineteen seventies, the Campesino or peasant land struggles

3094
02:50:45,520 --> 02:50:48,000
Speaker 10: intensified as the people demanded.

3095
02:50:47,680 --> 02:50:49,520
Speaker 5: Redistribution and reforms.

3096
02:50:50,040 --> 02:50:53,840
Speaker 10: They did get some reform under General Essualdo Lopez Ariano,

3097
02:50:54,240 --> 02:50:58,480
Speaker 10: but these reforms were limited and met with the usual repression.

3098
02:50:58,959 --> 02:51:02,000
Speaker 10: In transition into a young government in nineteen eighties, Honduras

3099
02:51:02,040 --> 02:51:05,560
Speaker 10: remained under heavy US influence, serving as a base for

3100
02:51:05,720 --> 02:51:09,600
Speaker 10: anti communist activities in Central America. Then new liberal policies

3101
02:51:09,640 --> 02:51:12,480
Speaker 10: in nineteen nineties eroded many of the hard won social

3102
02:51:12,600 --> 02:51:17,320
Speaker 10: and labor rights, as privatization and austerity measures deepened the

3103
02:51:17,360 --> 02:51:20,400
Speaker 10: inequality in the country. Two thousand and nine coup against

3104
02:51:20,440 --> 02:51:23,560
Speaker 10: President Manuel's u Liar marked another turning point in modern

3105
02:51:23,680 --> 02:51:27,720
Speaker 10: hundred resistance. Silia's progressive policies, including raised in the minimum

3106
02:51:27,760 --> 02:51:31,800
Speaker 10: wage and considering a Greeran reform. Imagine you're considered progressive,

3107
02:51:31,840 --> 02:51:37,480
Speaker 10: even considering a careering reform. But for that thought crime

3108
02:51:37,520 --> 02:51:40,400
Speaker 10: of considering a Greeran reform, he was alienated by the

3109
02:51:40,440 --> 02:51:43,960
Speaker 10: business elite and the US aligned military and thus could

3110
02:51:44,800 --> 02:51:47,440
Speaker 10: and this triggered, of course, a wave of militarization and

3111
02:51:47,600 --> 02:51:51,959
Speaker 10: repression and protests. We met with violence and human rights

3112
02:51:52,000 --> 02:51:55,480
Speaker 10: abuses usual in the years fallen. The coup movements like

3113
02:51:55,560 --> 02:52:00,280
Speaker 10: Clatters Extensia unified a broad coalition of workers, indigenous crewsanist

3114
02:52:00,360 --> 02:52:04,720
Speaker 10: students who were all demanding systemic change. But the essues

3115
02:52:04,760 --> 02:52:09,680
Speaker 10: persist Andruas continues to face crises of poverty, violence and migration,

3116
02:52:10,760 --> 02:52:15,440
Speaker 10: but grassroots organizing continues. The ground there is indeed fertile

3117
02:52:15,920 --> 02:52:21,720
Speaker 10: for an anarchist resurgence, And then we come to the Salvador. Anarchists,

3118
02:52:21,800 --> 02:52:24,680
Speaker 10: both local and international, played a key role in shape

3119
02:52:24,680 --> 02:52:28,920
Speaker 10: in the early labor movement Spanish, Mexico and Panamanian anarchisynicalists

3120
02:52:29,000 --> 02:52:32,160
Speaker 10: work with them ideas of collector resistance and workers autonomy.

3121
02:52:32,720 --> 02:52:34,680
Speaker 10: One of the earliest milestones in the country was the

3122
02:52:34,800 --> 02:52:39,119
Speaker 10: Union Oprera Savalorina, founded in nineteen twenty two, which united

3123
02:52:39,200 --> 02:52:41,640
Speaker 10: workers under the principles of mutual aid and direct action.

3124
02:52:42,720 --> 02:52:47,600
Speaker 10: Nineteen twenty four, the Ferracrion de Ravadoresta Salvador or FRTs

3125
02:52:48,120 --> 02:52:52,480
Speaker 10: emerged and was initially steeped at anarchistinicalist ideas before shifting

3126
02:52:52,520 --> 02:52:55,840
Speaker 10: towards Marxism in the late nineteen twenties. In the nineteen thirties,

3127
02:52:56,160 --> 02:52:59,320
Speaker 10: the anarchist Centro sind Cal Libretario was founded and operated

3128
02:52:59,440 --> 02:53:03,160
Speaker 10: in Sansa the Door. Unfortunately, for pretty much everybody in

3129
02:53:03,200 --> 02:53:07,519
Speaker 10: the outside of door, nineteen thirty two happened the devastating

3130
02:53:07,680 --> 02:53:11,360
Speaker 10: La Mantaza of nineteen thirty two. To be specific, this

3131
02:53:11,560 --> 02:53:14,520
Speaker 10: was a massacre that was orchestrated by the dictatorship of

3132
02:53:14,600 --> 02:53:17,560
Speaker 10: General Oh. I shouldn't have told you, I should have

3133
02:53:17,600 --> 02:53:20,879
Speaker 10: asked you what you think to La matanza means un

3134
02:53:20,920 --> 02:53:22,400
Speaker 10: if you've be brushed up in your Spanish.

3135
02:53:23,080 --> 02:53:27,560
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, no, my Spanish is actually quite famously bad. I

3136
02:53:27,680 --> 02:53:28,840
Speaker 6: really should work on it.

3137
02:53:29,280 --> 02:53:33,000
Speaker 10: I'm sure you envy and my stumbling through all these

3138
02:53:33,040 --> 02:53:34,680
Speaker 10: Spanish names throughout this series.

3139
02:53:35,000 --> 02:53:37,880
Speaker 6: See that's usually me. I'm just happy to have it

3140
02:53:38,000 --> 02:53:40,840
Speaker 6: be someone else, so James doesn't laugh at me for

3141
02:53:41,320 --> 02:53:45,160
Speaker 6: reading too many books but not practicing saying things out

3142
02:53:45,200 --> 02:53:46,119
Speaker 6: loud as a kid.

3143
02:53:48,360 --> 02:53:50,320
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel you. I mean for me,

3144
02:53:50,480 --> 02:53:52,680
Speaker 10: I think one of the difficulties I have been don

3145
02:53:52,720 --> 02:53:57,280
Speaker 10: in Spanish all my life. Yeah, the difficulty is when

3146
02:53:57,320 --> 02:54:00,680
Speaker 10: you're speaking at a momentum in one language, at least

3147
02:54:00,680 --> 02:54:03,840
Speaker 10: in my experience, it's really difficult to switch the patterns

3148
02:54:03,879 --> 02:54:07,000
Speaker 10: of pronunciation to the other language. You know, the way

3149
02:54:07,040 --> 02:54:10,720
Speaker 10: that Spanish like reads vowels is different from how English

3150
02:54:10,760 --> 02:54:13,720
Speaker 10: reads vowels, so it's hard to like quickly switch in

3151
02:54:13,760 --> 02:54:14,360
Speaker 10: and switch out.

3152
02:54:15,040 --> 02:54:17,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that there has always been. My struggle is

3153
02:54:18,400 --> 02:54:23,560
Speaker 6: reading their vowels like my vowels, and it produces some

3154
02:54:23,680 --> 02:54:28,920
Speaker 6: sometimes quite quite comical pronunciation, which is really really my bad.

3155
02:54:30,000 --> 02:54:32,119
Speaker 5: I can imagine, but yeah.

3156
02:54:32,280 --> 02:54:36,240
Speaker 10: The La Matanza of nineteen thirty two was a massacre

3157
02:54:36,920 --> 02:54:42,600
Speaker 10: orchestrated by the dictatorship of General Maximiliano Frandez Martinez that

3158
02:54:42,800 --> 02:54:47,160
Speaker 10: aimed to crush the peasant prison that was sparked by

3159
02:54:47,440 --> 02:54:53,400
Speaker 10: systemic poverty and land dispossession. Tens of thousands were slaughtered,

3160
02:54:53,600 --> 02:54:56,400
Speaker 10: many of them indigenous people, and the anarchist and labor

3161
02:54:56,440 --> 02:55:00,160
Speaker 10: movements in the country suffered immense losses as activists were

3162
02:55:00,200 --> 02:55:03,560
Speaker 10: either killed or forced underground. This marked the beginning of

3163
02:55:03,760 --> 02:55:06,880
Speaker 10: decades of military rule designed to protect the interests of

3164
02:55:06,920 --> 02:55:10,520
Speaker 10: the land owned in oligarchy, the fourteen families that practically

3165
02:55:10,640 --> 02:55:15,240
Speaker 10: owned everything in El Salvor. But despite this repression, radical

3166
02:55:15,360 --> 02:55:19,240
Speaker 10: organizations have persisted. The mid to lay twentieth century saw

3167
02:55:19,240 --> 02:55:22,640
Speaker 10: the rise of armed revolutionary groups, culminating in the Salvadorda

3168
02:55:22,680 --> 02:55:24,959
Speaker 10: In Civil War from nineteen eighty eight to nineteen ninety two.

3169
02:55:25,640 --> 02:55:28,840
Speaker 10: The war pitted the primarily Marxi Leninists and socialist factions

3170
02:55:29,240 --> 02:55:33,320
Speaker 10: against the US backed Selvadorra and military dictaisership. The Marxists

3171
02:55:33,360 --> 02:55:36,200
Speaker 10: transitioned into a political party after the nineteen ninety two

3172
02:55:36,240 --> 02:55:39,680
Speaker 10: peace accords, which ended the war but left many systemic

3173
02:55:39,800 --> 02:55:44,200
Speaker 10: inequalities unresolved. In the twenty fifth century, labour struggles have

3174
02:55:44,280 --> 02:55:48,480
Speaker 10: continued amid new liberal economic reforms and international financial pressures,

3175
02:55:48,879 --> 02:55:51,240
Speaker 10: while the left wing Fmelon won the presidents in two

3176
02:55:51,240 --> 02:55:54,120
Speaker 10: thosey nine and held power on until twenty nineteen. Its

3177
02:55:54,160 --> 02:55:57,480
Speaker 10: tenure was criticized for failing to sufficiently addressed issues plague

3178
02:55:57,480 --> 02:56:01,480
Speaker 10: in the country. Recent years under President I have seen

3179
02:56:01,520 --> 02:56:05,960
Speaker 10: the construction of a proper mass casseral police state. What

3180
02:56:06,080 --> 02:56:09,320
Speaker 10: we're going to struggle against, privatization and our sterity measures.

3181
02:56:10,000 --> 02:56:12,520
Speaker 10: By the way, the rise of Achille is just really

3182
02:56:13,360 --> 02:56:18,440
Speaker 10: fascinating to me, particularly from a trendardy and context, because

3183
02:56:18,480 --> 02:56:22,360
Speaker 10: we have a pre surveyor murder rate situation going on.

3184
02:56:22,440 --> 02:56:25,240
Speaker 10: Our murder rate has been rising steadily in the past

3185
02:56:25,560 --> 02:56:28,760
Speaker 10: two decades and there's just been in general, lot of

3186
02:56:28,840 --> 02:56:32,360
Speaker 10: crime is serious lately, and the response a lot I've

3187
02:56:32,360 --> 02:56:35,200
Speaker 10: seen a lot of Trindadians have toward the rise of

3188
02:56:35,240 --> 02:56:38,080
Speaker 10: a Chill and a Salvador. It's literally like, we do

3189
02:56:38,200 --> 02:56:39,640
Speaker 10: that too, We need to do that too, Like we

3190
02:56:39,760 --> 02:56:43,400
Speaker 10: need to you know, institute like a mass custual state

3191
02:56:43,440 --> 02:56:46,760
Speaker 10: as well. And I feel like I'm fighting a wave.

3192
02:56:47,920 --> 02:56:51,080
Speaker 10: I'm like talking to a war like really, it's really

3193
02:56:51,120 --> 02:56:53,680
Speaker 10: difficult for me, I think, to challenge that because I

3194
02:56:53,760 --> 02:56:56,440
Speaker 10: know some people's frustrations, but to me, my mind is

3195
02:56:56,560 --> 02:56:58,840
Speaker 10: just boggled at it. You know, like you really think

3196
02:56:58,879 --> 02:57:02,680
Speaker 10: we'll be complaining about r ouption all the time, right,

3197
02:57:02,800 --> 02:57:06,080
Speaker 10: Like it's very openly nepatistic and corrupt in this place,

3198
02:57:06,680 --> 02:57:09,879
Speaker 10: people who are like either political party that is presented

3199
02:57:09,920 --> 02:57:13,080
Speaker 10: to us as the options, and yet people are so

3200
02:57:13,520 --> 02:57:15,680
Speaker 10: think about the crime situation that they're willing to put

3201
02:57:15,760 --> 02:57:18,440
Speaker 10: that much power in the hands of the government to

3202
02:57:18,480 --> 02:57:21,000
Speaker 10: make that judgment. That's the things we know that they're

3203
02:57:21,040 --> 02:57:24,360
Speaker 10: innocent people in for killers prisons. You know, we know

3204
02:57:25,120 --> 02:57:28,120
Speaker 10: that journalists haven't locked of for criticizing the government. We

3205
02:57:28,240 --> 02:57:32,279
Speaker 10: know that all people are locked up without charges, without rights,

3206
02:57:32,600 --> 02:57:36,720
Speaker 10: without anything. And what's crazy to me is that like

3207
02:57:37,840 --> 02:57:41,320
Speaker 10: people are like cheering it on until it's them, until

3208
02:57:41,360 --> 02:57:44,359
Speaker 10: you happen to be unlucky enough to have a tattoo.

3209
02:57:44,920 --> 02:57:46,959
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, as long as it's someone else, then

3210
02:57:47,040 --> 02:57:47,840
Speaker 6: it's not them.

3211
02:57:48,320 --> 02:57:51,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, exactly, It's like it's fine as long as somebody else.

3212
02:57:51,440 --> 02:57:54,119
Speaker 10: But like, let's say you have a tattoo or I mean,

3213
02:57:54,520 --> 02:57:57,039
Speaker 10: the thing is the police. I'm sure it's the case

3214
02:57:57,040 --> 02:57:59,240
Speaker 10: in VA as well, because the police are themselves a

3215
02:57:59,320 --> 02:58:02,000
Speaker 10: gang anywhere in the world, but the police insure not

3216
02:58:02,160 --> 02:58:06,040
Speaker 10: literally connected in some cases with gangs. In fact, there's

3217
02:58:06,080 --> 02:58:09,199
Speaker 10: some gang members who end up like joining the police

3218
02:58:09,240 --> 02:58:11,560
Speaker 10: force later on in their lives, and so to just

3219
02:58:12,080 --> 02:58:14,320
Speaker 10: give that kind of powerity that you know, let's say

3220
02:58:14,360 --> 02:58:18,720
Speaker 10: you criticize an officer, you say something that they were like,

3221
02:58:18,800 --> 02:58:21,080
Speaker 10: and then before you know it, you're the one behind

3222
02:58:21,160 --> 02:58:24,400
Speaker 10: boss as well. I understand the frustration, I don't understand

3223
02:58:24,440 --> 02:58:28,800
Speaker 10: the response, and it remains to be seeing how Biguli's

3224
02:58:28,840 --> 02:58:31,360
Speaker 10: policies continue to play out in the country. I feel

3225
02:58:31,400 --> 02:58:35,560
Speaker 10: like it's a disaster reason to happen, and so in

3226
02:58:35,640 --> 02:58:37,080
Speaker 10: many ways it is already a disaster.

3227
02:58:37,240 --> 02:58:38,959
Speaker 5: But you know, there are people.

3228
02:58:38,800 --> 02:58:40,959
Speaker 10: Point to oh, look, I'll see if things have got

3229
02:58:41,120 --> 02:58:44,280
Speaker 10: no But I don't know how long that will last,

3230
02:58:45,000 --> 02:58:49,160
Speaker 10: especially when the families that are responsible for so much

3231
02:58:49,240 --> 02:58:53,040
Speaker 10: of the disparity in the country are still in their

3232
02:58:53,080 --> 02:58:53,800
Speaker 10: position of power.

3233
02:58:54,560 --> 02:58:55,240
Speaker 5: But I digress.

3234
02:58:56,360 --> 02:58:59,520
Speaker 10: The spirit of mutually direct action and anti thoughtun resistance

3235
02:59:00,040 --> 02:59:02,680
Speaker 10: still as a potential to persist in the country of

3236
02:59:02,760 --> 02:59:15,040
Speaker 10: El Salbaro. At last, we've reached Guatemala. In nineteen twenty sixth,

3237
02:59:15,080 --> 02:59:19,800
Speaker 10: the publication Orientascian Cindical started circulating in Guatemala calling for

3238
02:59:19,840 --> 02:59:22,600
Speaker 10: the kind of direct grassroots union action that went around

3239
02:59:22,800 --> 02:59:26,880
Speaker 10: or even opposed fiscal parties as obstacles to liberation. Meanwhile,

3240
02:59:26,920 --> 02:59:29,560
Speaker 10: the Marxists in the country had a different vision. They

3241
02:59:29,640 --> 02:59:33,120
Speaker 10: pushed for the formation of the Federacion Juianaloberradia Guatemala and

3242
02:59:33,280 --> 02:59:37,240
Speaker 10: with that the launch of Fangaradia Proletaria, a communist led

3243
02:59:37,240 --> 02:59:40,080
Speaker 10: people that aim to rally the working class behind Marxist ideas.

3244
02:59:40,760 --> 02:59:44,200
Speaker 10: At the same time, Spanish and Peruvian workers alongside Guatemala

3245
02:59:44,200 --> 02:59:47,080
Speaker 10: and students and workers came together to form the Committee

3246
02:59:47,160 --> 02:59:51,360
Speaker 10: Peroxio and Cindical, which was the space where anarchistyndicalism truly

3247
02:59:51,440 --> 02:59:54,560
Speaker 10: found its voice in Guatemala. Gres you can probably guess

3248
02:59:54,640 --> 02:59:56,280
Speaker 10: the powers that be weren't going to let this kind

3249
02:59:56,280 --> 03:00:00,000
Speaker 10: of artical action stand. In nineteen thirty a military Dutay

3250
03:00:00,200 --> 03:00:04,640
Speaker 10: ships swept into the country, ending the Committee, effectively silence

3251
03:00:04,640 --> 03:00:07,320
Speaker 10: and anarchystynicalism in Quatemala and set in the stage for

3252
03:00:07,480 --> 03:00:10,640
Speaker 10: years of political oppression as the state worked tirelessly to

3253
03:00:10,640 --> 03:00:13,960
Speaker 10: suppress any form of workers self organization, often with the

3254
03:00:14,040 --> 03:00:19,120
Speaker 10: back end of the one and only yous say us

3255
03:00:19,280 --> 03:00:24,600
Speaker 10: say us say. The mid twentieth century marked a period

3256
03:00:24,640 --> 03:00:29,240
Speaker 10: of extreme violence against workers movements, passive movements, and leftists movements,

3257
03:00:29,400 --> 03:00:33,000
Speaker 10: especially after the nineteen fifty four CIA backed coup. Despite

3258
03:00:33,040 --> 03:00:36,880
Speaker 10: these setbacks, workers and political movements really never stopped fighting.

3259
03:00:37,360 --> 03:00:41,600
Speaker 10: In the nineteen sixties and seventies, Kriller movements gainablementum inspired

3260
03:00:41,600 --> 03:00:45,800
Speaker 10: by Marxist and anti imperialist ideologies, and although these movements

3261
03:00:45,840 --> 03:00:48,320
Speaker 10: were frequently crushed with state violence in the Fourth massacres

3262
03:00:48,360 --> 03:00:51,119
Speaker 10: and disappearances, they persisted until the end of the Civil

3263
03:00:51,160 --> 03:00:56,000
Speaker 10: War nineteen ninety six. Still social inequality and economic exploitation persisted.

3264
03:00:56,520 --> 03:00:59,640
Speaker 10: They moved on, especially in this sweatshop industry, have continued

3265
03:00:59,640 --> 03:01:03,040
Speaker 10: to fight for workers' rights. Guatemalo today is still fighting

3266
03:01:03,160 --> 03:01:05,760
Speaker 10: to breathe free. Its people are still fighting against the

3267
03:01:05,800 --> 03:01:09,240
Speaker 10: continued dominance of new liberal economic policies, fighting against crop

3268
03:01:09,320 --> 03:01:13,199
Speaker 10: political elites, and most importantly, fighting for autonomy French, indigenous

3269
03:01:13,280 --> 03:01:15,560
Speaker 10: and working peoples. And that it's time to hit the

3270
03:01:15,640 --> 03:01:19,120
Speaker 10: islands on Our first stop is the Dominican Republic. To

3271
03:01:19,240 --> 03:01:22,240
Speaker 10: the efforts of Spanish immigrant workers, the ideas of mutual

3272
03:01:22,320 --> 03:01:25,840
Speaker 10: aid and syndicalism found very fertile ground, particularly in the

3273
03:01:25,920 --> 03:01:28,280
Speaker 10: mid eighteen eighties, where we see the emergence of the

3274
03:01:28,360 --> 03:01:33,760
Speaker 10: first mutualist associations, such as La Alianza Chipayania in eighteen

3275
03:01:33,800 --> 03:01:37,160
Speaker 10: eighty four and Society dad at tsinale Ecost de Pueblo

3276
03:01:37,280 --> 03:01:40,400
Speaker 10: in eighteen ninety. The riverald Workers Strike in eighteen ninety six,

3277
03:01:40,480 --> 03:01:43,360
Speaker 10: struck in protest against their conditions but working on the

3278
03:01:43,400 --> 03:01:46,880
Speaker 10: Puerto Plata Santiago line, among the first direct actions in

3279
03:01:46,879 --> 03:01:49,039
Speaker 10: the American Republic outside of its historical.

3280
03:01:48,879 --> 03:01:50,800
Speaker 5: Maroonages and slaver of votes.

3281
03:01:51,120 --> 03:01:54,080
Speaker 10: In eighteen ninety seven, the first labor union was formed,

3282
03:01:54,640 --> 03:01:58,160
Speaker 10: the Union de Panaderos the son to Domingo. Not long after,

3283
03:01:58,680 --> 03:02:03,160
Speaker 10: strikes erupted across the country. Bakers, cobblers, brick layers all

3284
03:02:03,320 --> 03:02:07,000
Speaker 10: marched in protest, often the heart of Cologne Park, fighting

3285
03:02:07,080 --> 03:02:10,680
Speaker 10: for better working conditions and respect from their employers. Fast

3286
03:02:10,720 --> 03:02:12,880
Speaker 10: forward a bit, and in nineteen twenty we saw the

3287
03:02:12,959 --> 03:02:17,279
Speaker 10: first Premier Congress to de Ravajadores Dominicanos convene in Santramingo,

3288
03:02:17,800 --> 03:02:21,080
Speaker 10: where the Confederacion dominican and del Trabajo was born. The

3289
03:02:21,200 --> 03:02:24,600
Speaker 10: demands were basic but crucial, things like the eight hour workday,

3290
03:02:25,000 --> 03:02:28,000
Speaker 10: the right to strike, a salary schedule, and profit sharing.

3291
03:02:28,400 --> 03:02:31,680
Speaker 10: But it wasn't just about improving their daily lives. They

3292
03:02:31,720 --> 03:02:35,520
Speaker 10: also sought to fight foreign intervention. Specifically, they called to

3293
03:02:35,560 --> 03:02:38,440
Speaker 10: the end to the North American occupation, which had had

3294
03:02:38,480 --> 03:02:42,080
Speaker 10: a heavy presence in the region for decades. The nineteen

3295
03:02:42,080 --> 03:02:45,360
Speaker 10: twenties also the rise of another powerful union, the Federacion

3296
03:02:45,440 --> 03:02:48,720
Speaker 10: Locale de Travajo de Santra Remingo, which was founded by

3297
03:02:48,840 --> 03:02:52,600
Speaker 10: thirty one different unions. Despite the strength of these movements,

3298
03:02:52,760 --> 03:02:55,400
Speaker 10: the Dominican Republic remained under the heavy influence of foreign

3299
03:02:55,440 --> 03:02:58,960
Speaker 10: powers and corrupt local elites. In nineteen forty six, the

3300
03:02:59,040 --> 03:03:01,960
Speaker 10: Dominican Republics so a major strike in the sugar plantations

3301
03:03:01,959 --> 03:03:04,880
Speaker 10: of La Romana and San Pedro de Macoris, and this

3302
03:03:05,080 --> 03:03:07,560
Speaker 10: time the influence of Spanish anarchists who had fled the

3303
03:03:07,560 --> 03:03:11,480
Speaker 10: Spanish Civil War was undeniable. Today, the anarchist presence in

3304
03:03:11,520 --> 03:03:15,160
Speaker 10: the American Republic is not pronounced, but the conditions are

3305
03:03:15,320 --> 03:03:19,720
Speaker 10: as with the others ripe for such a transformation. Finally,

3306
03:03:19,760 --> 03:03:22,960
Speaker 10: let's jump across to Puerto Rico for a final historical review.

3307
03:03:23,560 --> 03:03:25,840
Speaker 10: Puerto Rico, as we know, was a Spanish colony until

3308
03:03:25,840 --> 03:03:27,800
Speaker 10: eighteen ninety eight, but after that it fell under the

3309
03:03:27,879 --> 03:03:31,240
Speaker 10: control of the United States. Anarchism in Puerto Rico didn't

3310
03:03:31,240 --> 03:03:33,120
Speaker 10: have quite the same impact as it did in there

3311
03:03:33,160 --> 03:03:36,200
Speaker 10: By Cuba, let us men, it wasn't there pushing back

3312
03:03:36,240 --> 03:03:39,840
Speaker 10: against the powers of b Anarchist militans, particularly from Spain,

3313
03:03:40,360 --> 03:03:42,320
Speaker 10: made their way to Puerto Rico in the eighteen eighties,

3314
03:03:42,840 --> 03:03:45,840
Speaker 10: bringing with them the fire of direct action and commitment

3315
03:03:45,879 --> 03:03:48,560
Speaker 10: to the idea that workers should control their own lives.

3316
03:03:49,120 --> 03:03:51,160
Speaker 10: In the liberal period between eighteen sixty eight and eighteen

3317
03:03:51,160 --> 03:03:54,680
Speaker 10: seventy three, the first artist and based organizations started popping up.

3318
03:03:55,240 --> 03:03:59,000
Speaker 10: These were mutual aid societies and cooperatives. They weren't exactly

3319
03:03:59,320 --> 03:04:03,040
Speaker 10: radical orientation, a far cry from the anarchist of prizings

3320
03:04:03,040 --> 03:04:05,760
Speaker 10: happening elsewhere in that America, but there were spaces where

3321
03:04:05,800 --> 03:04:09,600
Speaker 10: workers could find solidarity and support. In eighteen ninety four,

3322
03:04:10,000 --> 03:04:13,800
Speaker 10: things began to change. A monetary crisis hit, followed by

3323
03:04:13,840 --> 03:04:18,160
Speaker 10: a devaluation that ten prices kyrocketing, and the population decided

3324
03:04:18,200 --> 03:04:20,720
Speaker 10: to push back. This triggered a wave of strikes and

3325
03:04:20,840 --> 03:04:22,480
Speaker 10: mass protests, and that's where we start to see the

3326
03:04:22,520 --> 03:04:26,320
Speaker 10: direct influence of anarchists. Were not for sure that Spanish anarchists,

3327
03:04:26,320 --> 03:04:28,280
Speaker 10: who had settled in Puerto Rico were active in these

3328
03:04:28,320 --> 03:04:32,560
Speaker 10: early struggles, push in fremancipation and denounced in exploitation. In

3329
03:04:32,600 --> 03:04:35,879
Speaker 10: eighteen ninety eight, when Puerto Rico was already under US control,

3330
03:04:36,520 --> 03:04:40,800
Speaker 10: anarchists and socialists came together to form the Federacrialricnale the Rostravadories,

3331
03:04:41,360 --> 03:04:44,760
Speaker 10: a group clearly inspired with the Spanish Federascriol and Richiernalespanola.

3332
03:04:45,280 --> 03:04:48,800
Speaker 10: Their program was a simple yet radical one, abolished the

3333
03:04:48,840 --> 03:04:52,879
Speaker 10: exploitation of workers and build a society without borders or masters.

3334
03:04:53,560 --> 03:04:56,440
Speaker 10: But as with all movements, there were contradictions and splits.

3335
03:04:56,920 --> 03:04:59,720
Speaker 10: In eighteen ninety nine, a major rift occurred within the Federation,

3336
03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:01,840
Speaker 10: and it became clear that some of its leaders were

3337
03:05:01,879 --> 03:05:05,000
Speaker 10: more willing than others to accept the support of political parties,

3338
03:05:05,480 --> 03:05:08,959
Speaker 10: something the anarchists traditionally rejected. This caused those that were

3339
03:05:09,160 --> 03:05:13,200
Speaker 10: true to syndicalist autonomy to form the Federastrian Libre, a

3340
03:05:13,280 --> 03:05:17,000
Speaker 10: group that split from that original federation and stuck to

3341
03:05:17,040 --> 03:05:21,000
Speaker 10: the principles of the First International. Yet, just a few

3342
03:05:21,080 --> 03:05:23,640
Speaker 10: years later, in nineteen oh one, this same group ended

3343
03:05:23,720 --> 03:05:27,480
Speaker 10: up affiliated with the conservative American Federation of Labor, which

3344
03:05:27,600 --> 03:05:32,600
Speaker 10: is a very strange Bedfellow considering their earlier anarchists commitments.

3345
03:05:33,640 --> 03:05:36,320
Speaker 10: But the anarchists didn't feed away just after these splits.

3346
03:05:36,480 --> 03:05:39,240
Speaker 10: They didn't achieve the dawn and position in Puerto Rico's

3347
03:05:39,280 --> 03:05:41,680
Speaker 10: worker movement, but they kept pushing forward anyway. And one

3348
03:05:41,720 --> 03:05:43,400
Speaker 10: of the ways they did this was through the press,

3349
03:05:43,760 --> 03:05:45,920
Speaker 10: as they spread ideas, shared literature.

3350
03:05:45,640 --> 03:05:46,560
Speaker 5: And build networks.

3351
03:05:47,280 --> 03:05:51,760
Speaker 10: Baz Sumana, a publication based on Kagwas, was one such example.

3352
03:05:52,520 --> 03:05:54,840
Speaker 10: The anergi anarchists in Perto Rico was translated into action,

3353
03:05:55,040 --> 03:05:58,280
Speaker 10: especially in the labor front where they were there and

3354
03:05:58,440 --> 03:06:02,800
Speaker 10: part of strikes and eons and ongoing battles. So as

3355
03:06:02,840 --> 03:06:04,960
Speaker 10: we look to Puerto Rico today, whether with the fight

3356
03:06:05,040 --> 03:06:08,879
Speaker 10: for sovereignty, for labor rights, against cunalism, or whatever else,

3357
03:06:09,840 --> 03:06:12,720
Speaker 10: we can remember the potential of anarchism on the island.

3358
03:06:13,240 --> 03:06:16,520
Speaker 10: There are Puerto Ricans and history who understood that freedom

3359
03:06:16,600 --> 03:06:20,039
Speaker 10: wasn't solely about political independence, but about deliberation of all

3360
03:06:20,120 --> 03:06:23,880
Speaker 10: people from all forms of exploitation. So I just take

3361
03:06:23,879 --> 03:06:26,000
Speaker 10: a step back and look at the broader picture of

3362
03:06:26,160 --> 03:06:30,440
Speaker 10: labor and anarchist struggle across the region. Do the anarchist

3363
03:06:30,480 --> 03:06:34,400
Speaker 10: movements were not as vibrant as elsewhere, whether indeed dormant

3364
03:06:34,520 --> 03:06:37,040
Speaker 10: or dead in many cases, we still see a very

3365
03:06:37,080 --> 03:06:39,960
Speaker 10: powerful thread of resistance and a very flutile ground for

3366
03:06:40,000 --> 03:06:43,400
Speaker 10: anarchist development, which our comrades in these places can hopefully

3367
03:06:43,600 --> 03:06:44,240
Speaker 10: flourish within.

3368
03:06:45,560 --> 03:06:47,600
Speaker 5: That's all for me today. You can find me a

3369
03:06:47,640 --> 03:06:50,880
Speaker 5: YouTube at Androism and patroon that seem true. This is

3370
03:06:51,200 --> 03:06:55,160
Speaker 5: It could Happen Here? All power to all the people. Peace.

3371
03:06:58,920 --> 03:07:02,080
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3372
03:07:02,160 --> 03:07:04,039
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3373
03:07:04,680 --> 03:07:07,160
Speaker 6: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3374
03:07:07,360 --> 03:07:10,400
Speaker 6: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3375
03:07:10,480 --> 03:07:14,039
Speaker 6: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3376
03:07:14,160 --> 03:07:17,680
Speaker 6: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3377
03:07:17,760 --> 03:07:20,039
Speaker 6: now find sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly

3378
03:07:20,120 --> 03:07:22,360
Speaker 6: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.