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Speaker 1: the right people with the right company. Go to Express

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Speaker 1: pros dot com. That's Express pros dot com. Now here's

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Speaker 1: a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeart Radio again.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and talk to Mark mccltch. First, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be a really really interesting show now. Mark

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Speaker 1: is a retired Supervisory Deputy United States Marshall Wow twenty

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Speaker 1: six years of federal law enforcement experience. Currently the owner

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Speaker 1: of Advanced Interviewing Concepts, Mark is an expert at detecting

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Speaker 1: deception and he uses the statement analysis that he came

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Speaker 1: up with. He currently he gives presentations on it throughout

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Speaker 1: the United States. You've probably seen him on TV as well.

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Speaker 1: I have. I've seen him when I had no idea

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Speaker 1: when I was first introduced to him, and then I

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Speaker 1: saw him. I went, oh, I've seen that guy. He's really,

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Speaker 1: really somebody that if you're lying, you don't want to

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Speaker 1: be around him because he's gonna know. He's gonna know

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Speaker 1: his author of the books, I know you are lying,

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Speaker 1: and also don't be deceived. And it's kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: We've been emailing back and forth this week and on

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Speaker 1: the subject line it says, I know you were lying

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Speaker 1: because of his book. But every time I see it,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking it's it's gonna be some sort of hate

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Speaker 1: mail that's coming to me. I'm going, oh, oh, that's Mark,

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Speaker 1: just the way it is. You know, those haters, haters

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Speaker 1: gonna hate well, Mark mcclish, Welcome to the show. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast First time guests. How are you

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Speaker 1: doing tonight? You're ready to go. I'm ready to go.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on the show. Oh, you're welcome.

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Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to this. The books that you

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Speaker 1: have sent me, oh my goodness. And your website, I mean,

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Speaker 1: so interesting, so out of the box and so needed here. Um,

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Speaker 1: how did you get involved in this in the first place?

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Speaker 1: Where you always the kid that told the truth and

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Speaker 1: got in trouble either way, or is there something from

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Speaker 1: your childhood that got you to be like, gosh, you

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Speaker 1: might be like the expert on the planet. Well, I

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Speaker 1: was always raised by my parents to tell the truth,

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Speaker 1: but of course every kid doesn't always a buy it

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Speaker 1: by those rules. But I really kind of fell into it.

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Speaker 1: I'm When I was with the Marshal Service, we primarily

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Speaker 1: look for fugitives, so I did a lot of interviews,

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Speaker 1: a lot of investigations. But when I uh, I spent

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Speaker 1: nine years teaching at our train Academy, which is located

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Speaker 1: at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glenco, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: And when I got there, they asked me, what do

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Speaker 1: you want to teach, and uh, the one thing I

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Speaker 1: said Bozo interviewing techniques, because I always thought I was

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Speaker 1: a pretty good interviewer, but I wanted to learn more

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Speaker 1: about it. And then as I got into it, as

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Speaker 1: they sent me to some classes to prepare how to

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Speaker 1: train our students to detect deception, I just found it

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Speaker 1: to be very interesting. And so while I was down there,

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Speaker 1: I conducted a few studies um while I was not

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Speaker 1: teaching at the train Academy, and one of the first

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Speaker 1: groups I looked at was our students. And a typical

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Speaker 1: March serves class has forty eight students in it. So

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Speaker 1: from time and time I would conduct a study with

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Speaker 1: them and have half a class right in me a

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Speaker 1: statement that was completely truthful. The other half had to

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Speaker 1: write statements completely false. And the pages statements were recorded

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Speaker 1: on were coded, so I knew who's being truthful who's

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Speaker 1: being deceptive. When I looked at those statements, I found

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Speaker 1: that people tell the truth in the same ways and

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Speaker 1: people will be deceptive in its similar fashion. And as

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Speaker 1: the years went by, I no longer had to rely

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Speaker 1: on those codes, but I could just read that statement

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Speaker 1: and tell you if that person was making up the

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Speaker 1: story or if it was a truthful story, so it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter if they were even trying to fake you

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Speaker 1: out to say, oh, he told me to do the truth,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not going to do the truth. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell them the line and see if he

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Speaker 1: catches it. Even then, if they did that, you would

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Speaker 1: know it's still showed through. Although I don't recall any

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Speaker 1: of them doing that. I think they abided by my

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Speaker 1: instructions because the other class I taught in addition to

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Speaker 1: interviewing techniques was defensive tactics and physical conditioning classes, so

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Speaker 1: they knew if they didn't buy it by my instruction,

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Speaker 1: a few more push ups that later that afternoon excellent.

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Speaker 1: But the other the other group that I watched was

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Speaker 1: a group called role players incorporated. The Martial SURCE as

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Speaker 1: well as other agencies at the Federal Fortunate Training Training Center,

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Speaker 1: utilize semi professional actors to play various roles and the

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Speaker 1: scenarios that the students must complete. It makes for realistic

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Speaker 1: trainings that are meet the instructor going into the house

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Speaker 1: and when the students knocking a door, I pretend I'm

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Speaker 1: the homeowner, now only knocking a door to answered by

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Speaker 1: somebody they've never seen before. And the role players had

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Speaker 1: a variety of roles to play mother, father, girlfriend, boyfriends,

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Speaker 1: sometimes the fugitive themselves, because as they mentioned, that's pretty

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Speaker 1: much our investigations are limited in the Marshal Service puge investigation.

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Speaker 1: And we tell these role players and this scenario, answer

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Speaker 1: the students questions truthfully if they ask for the information,

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Speaker 1: give it to him. But a lot of times he

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Speaker 1: would tell them lie to the students. Don't let the

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Speaker 1: student know that your boy from the fugitive. It's hid

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Speaker 1: in your closet. But the key is we didn't tell

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Speaker 1: them how to lie. That wasn't scripted out. And for

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Speaker 1: nine years to watch over hundreds of role players in

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Speaker 1: variety of scenarios, I found that they two would be

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Speaker 1: deceptive in the same ways. And then after I left

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Speaker 1: out of me and went back onto the field, I

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Speaker 1: still conducted my own studies. Maybe get a group of

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Speaker 1: a hundred people and the write me a fictitious story,

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Speaker 1: just so again I can look at the language to see,

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Speaker 1: you know, what type of phrases they were using or

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Speaker 1: wordying they were using. The further developed the techniques. Do

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Speaker 1: you find Marcus, because I'm wanting to kind of cut

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Speaker 1: in on you and ask you some questions, and then

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Speaker 1: I stop and think, wait a minute. If I ask

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Speaker 1: you this question and somebody hears it, that is a liar.

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Speaker 1: They may use the answer to try to help them

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Speaker 1: not to lie. And some of the questions I want

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Speaker 1: to ask is, well, well, what what is it to

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Speaker 1: look for when people are lie? Because if there's a

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Speaker 1: liar in the room and they they do all the

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Speaker 1: things that you're telling me, that proves to them you

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Speaker 1: know that they're lying. If they know ways not to

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Speaker 1: do that, will you still be able to detect that

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Speaker 1: they're lying. It'll be a little bit hard, but you'll

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Speaker 1: still be able to detect it. And that's that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things I say in my seminars. I jokingly

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Speaker 1: tell the participants that's not one of my objectives. But

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Speaker 1: by attending this class or reading my books, it does

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Speaker 1: teach you how to be a better liar. But what

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Speaker 1: you're gonna find is that people will always phrase their

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Speaker 1: statement based on all their knowledge, which means their statement

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Speaker 1: may contain information they did not intend to share. I mean,

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Speaker 1: everything they know influences how they're going to phrase that statement,

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Speaker 1: and so people will give us more information than what

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Speaker 1: they realize. Unfortunately, they sometimes give us more information on

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Speaker 1: what we realize, and I'll get down to listening. That's

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Speaker 1: what I do, is I teach people what to listen

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Speaker 1: for in that statement. So yes, if you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: not to use a certain phrase or these certain words,

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Speaker 1: it'll make you a better liar. But still, when it

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Speaker 1: gets down to it, if if you give a lengthy statement, um,

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Speaker 1: your words are still going to betray. It makes it

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Speaker 1: just a little bit harder to spot. You know, we

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Speaker 1: sometimes say, oh, he's a good liar. People some certain

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Speaker 1: people are good liars, and I'd say, no, we're just

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Speaker 1: poor listeners, because that's usually when it gets down to.

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Speaker 1: If you if you listen to what that person said,

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Speaker 1: then you realize, Okay, I see where the deception was

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Speaker 1: one of the one of wow, that's interesting. One of

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Speaker 1: the years back at one point I was studying n

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Speaker 1: LP and they taught some really neat techniques of how

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Speaker 1: to spot someone lying using the eyes, and uh. I

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Speaker 1: try to avoid telling people what those were because they

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Speaker 1: would immediately know how to um prevent you from knowing

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Speaker 1: their line just through that eye technique that was taught.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna say, I'm gonna talk about it now

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Speaker 1: because we got coach people out there and it's okay,

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Speaker 1: we're cool, we're all good to each other. But one

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Speaker 1: of the things with the NLP was with the eyes.

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Speaker 1: If they we have a they kind of gave a

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Speaker 1: visual as your brain is a computer has a lot

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Speaker 1: of files in it, and if you look a certain

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Speaker 1: way backwards to the right or to the left, it

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Speaker 1: would determine if you're looking up a file that in

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Speaker 1: your brain that was already there and existed as truth,

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Speaker 1: or if you were looking another way that was creating

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Speaker 1: and fabricating your words and pulling from the air. And

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Speaker 1: it also helps you determine if they were right or

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Speaker 1: left handed too, So you had to be careful of

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Speaker 1: the accept the exceptions. But if you told anybody that,

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Speaker 1: they could easily kill that technique by looking you straight

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Speaker 1: in the eye. And some of the people that I

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Speaker 1: have met, some of the best salespeople, some of the

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Speaker 1: best liars that you know, are just you know, there's

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Speaker 1: always somebody in the group you know is lying and

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Speaker 1: they cheat on their girl for another wife or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You know, those people look you dead in the eye

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Speaker 1: and they'll lie as amazingly as if it was you know,

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Speaker 1: no big deal. So that's um, that's what I'm scared about.

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Speaker 1: It with giving your techniques out. I don't like those

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Speaker 1: liars to get better. Yeah, it's it's fine because people

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Speaker 1: don't forget, um, even what you mentioned with the NLP,

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Speaker 1: they'll What they'll do is they'll they'll overplay, like you said,

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Speaker 1: they'll maybe stare you down, which is abnormal. I mean,

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Speaker 1: most people make eye contact and they look away then

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Speaker 1: they come back. But if a person is just staring

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Speaker 1: you down trying to convince you I'm being truthful, then

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Speaker 1: that would be a sign. But what happens is people

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Speaker 1: will forget what I'm supposed to look up or to

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Speaker 1: the left, up into the right. And it's the same

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Speaker 1: way with the language. They'll forget I shouldn't say this,

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Speaker 1: or again, what it gets down to is there is

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Speaker 1: there several ways you can phrase a statement, and so

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Speaker 1: they'll forget how should I phrase this so I don't

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Speaker 1: reveal too much information? And again, you know some people

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Speaker 1: are better at it than others and telling a lie,

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Speaker 1: but you know people's words will betray them. Listen, to more.

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast a m. Every weeknight at one a m.

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more