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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: there's any kind of love that really measures up to

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Speaker 1: a mama's love for her babies, particularly when you don't

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Speaker 1: feel good. For me, I suffered horribly with your aches

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Speaker 1: when I was a child, and the only soothing to

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Speaker 1: be had was in the arms of my mother, rocking

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Speaker 1: me in her rocking chair and singing an old song

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Speaker 1: called Down in the Valley. Kids need that, you need

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Speaker 1: it when you don't feel good. There's just something about

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Speaker 1: his best medicine on earth. But today I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about a little boy, a little boy that needed soothing,

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Speaker 1: a little boy that needed help, a little boy that

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Speaker 1: needed healing. Today I'm going to talk about the murder

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Speaker 1: of Cairo Jordan's. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is

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Speaker 1: Body Backs my friend Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: When Nancy Grace is here with me, Jackie mak my

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Speaker 1: heart's broken. My heart is absolutely broken over the case

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about today, because I think many of

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Speaker 1: us can probably identify with this little boy in the

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Speaker 1: sense that he was suffering. He was certainly suffering, probably

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Speaker 1: far more than many of us can even begin into fathom.

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Speaker 1: But I think that like all of us, we want

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Speaker 1: to be soothed. We want to be treated like we're special.

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Speaker 1: We want to be assured that everything's gonna be okay.

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Speaker 1: In Cairo's case, I don't think that that that was

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Speaker 1: there for him. The death of this little boy is

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Speaker 1: really upsetting, especially when you find out with the release

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Speaker 1: of the autopsy and the cause of his death, that

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Speaker 1: it could have been prevented. The body of this little

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Speaker 1: boy was found inside a travel suitcase. It looks like

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Speaker 1: about the size of a small carry on. It is

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Speaker 1: a hard sided case and on the front of this

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Speaker 1: suitcase is the logo of the iconic sign of Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Las Vegas. And this little boy's body was folded

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Speaker 1: and stuffed inside this suitcase. It was dumped in the woods,

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Speaker 1: and his body was found by a mushroom hunter. We

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Speaker 1: did not know who this little boy was. We did

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Speaker 1: not know if he had been kidnapped. We did not

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Speaker 1: know if his body was just discarded by his parents.

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Speaker 1: We didn't know anything about this little boy other than

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Speaker 1: the fact that he's dead. And we'll get into his

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Speaker 1: death and the cause of his death in a second.

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Speaker 1: But I want to talk about Joe, how he was

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Speaker 1: found folded up inside of a carry on size suitcase.

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Speaker 1: How do you do that? I mean, if the little

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Speaker 1: boy died, and we know that rigor sets in in

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Speaker 1: certain stages, so what it had to have been done

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Speaker 1: like immediately when he died for it to be possible.

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Speaker 1: And even then, children's joints are more flexible than adults,

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Speaker 1: but I mean that that's really small to be basically

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Speaker 1: folded into. Bodies are are much more malleable when they

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Speaker 1: are recently deceased, and that that's in my opinion at

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Speaker 1: least that's what happened because there's that level of flexibility.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up this, the the idea of

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Speaker 1: of riger and just let me kind of break this

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Speaker 1: down to the folks kind of understand how riger works.

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Speaker 1: First off, it's one of the things that we use

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Speaker 1: to determine post mortal interval because there's measure time with it.

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Speaker 1: You know that we can kind of frame how long

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Speaker 1: someone has been down relative to what's referred to as

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Speaker 1: their level of rigidity. That is the tension that has

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Speaker 1: set in. And I think many people will say, well,

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Speaker 1: what causes this? What what actually causes riger to begin

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Speaker 1: to present. Well, it's kind of an interesting dynamic that

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Speaker 1: happens after death. When we're alive, you have this cellular

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Speaker 1: respiration that goes on your body and it's it's constantly pumping,

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Speaker 1: it's constantly working, and it's throwing off these little balls

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Speaker 1: of energy called a t P. And in death that

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Speaker 1: cellular respiration ceases and you begin to produce a d P.

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Speaker 1: And one of the byproducts of that is lactic acid.

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Speaker 1: And I tell tell my students listen, if you if

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Speaker 1: you want to know what Ricker mortis is, like, the

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Speaker 1: closest you'll ever experience it in life is if you

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Speaker 1: have not worked out in some time, you go and

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Speaker 1: get like a real hearty workout. In say, you begin

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Speaker 1: to do some weightlifting, maybe some stretching that you're not

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Speaker 1: used to. And the next morning when you wake up,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel well? You know, throughout the classroom

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Speaker 1: they always say stiff. You know, well, the reason you

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Speaker 1: feel stiff is that there is a build up of

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Speaker 1: a lactic acid. When you can take all kinds of

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Speaker 1: medication to you know, loosen up and all that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing make you feel better, but sooner or later,

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Speaker 1: because you're still alive and you have cellular respiration going on,

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Speaker 1: that lactic acid that you have built up in your

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Speaker 1: body will be metabolized and it will go away, all right.

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Speaker 1: In the dead, that's not the case, Okay, This lactic

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Speaker 1: acid builds up in the joints and it creates this

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Speaker 1: rigidity or rigor mortis. If you're looking to try to understand,

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Speaker 1: in you know, Cairo's case, where he was and what

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Speaker 1: was going on at that particular time, his body would

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Speaker 1: have still have to have been what's referred to as flaccid.

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Speaker 1: That means movable, okay, loose, because once riger begins to

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Speaker 1: set in, it's very stiff. It's very difficult to kind

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Speaker 1: of manipulate the body, particularly if you're not used to

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Speaker 1: dealing with dead bodies. And it's at that point in

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Speaker 1: time he could have been folded up. Now we don't

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Speaker 1: really know, you know, when we say folded, we don't

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Speaker 1: really know what that means. We don't know if he was,

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Speaker 1: say at his center access, which if we just kind

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Speaker 1: of pretend that that's the waste. If he's folded over

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Speaker 1: like a pair of pants that you're going to put

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Speaker 1: into a suitcase, we don't know if that's the case

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Speaker 1: or if he was kind of bawled up and placed

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Speaker 1: into a fetal position. And again, that would be easy

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Speaker 1: easy to accomplish, more so than say folding the upper

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Speaker 1: torso between the legs. It would be much more manageable

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Speaker 1: to kind of baul him into a fetal position and

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Speaker 1: place him into the suitcase and zip it up. And

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Speaker 1: if you know, if it were me, and you know

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Speaker 1: you were asking me, just without seeing any of the

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Speaker 1: any of the crimsing photos, I'd have to say that

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Speaker 1: that was probably the case. So this little boy was

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Speaker 1: folded and put into the suitcase and left outside. What

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Speaker 1: state would the body have been enclosed in this when

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Speaker 1: he was found? Well, okay, first off, we have to

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Speaker 1: say from the beginning that this rigid suitcase is going

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Speaker 1: to provide some level of protection. Okay, I think that

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of understood. We've got him in this encasement. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, most people understand where rigid suitcase feels like.

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Speaker 1: It's called rigid for a reason. It's not like a

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Speaker 1: soft sided thing that you can kind of easily manipulate.

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Speaker 1: We know what the parameters are, and so he's encased

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Speaker 1: within this structure. Now, what does that mean if you're outdoors, Well,

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Speaker 1: it means that it's going to be much more difficult

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Speaker 1: for large let's say, scavengers, birds, mammals, small mammals to

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Speaker 1: get access to the body, so you can kind of

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Speaker 1: count them out. However, it's not going to preclude insects

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Speaker 1: because insects will find a way. They will find a

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Speaker 1: way to get in to get to that thing that

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Speaker 1: is driving their senses nuts. They're trying to find decomposing tissue,

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Speaker 1: and they will go to great links to make their

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Speaker 1: way in there. So it would not be beyond reason

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Speaker 1: to think that there may have been some um larval

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Speaker 1: or maggot development in this environment. It all depends on

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Speaker 1: how sealed this thing truly was. There are smaller species

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Speaker 1: that can get in there and and kind of have

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Speaker 1: an impact as well. And and that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: happens with what we call future faction and future faction

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Speaker 1: if you think of it more in the terms of

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Speaker 1: when it comes to decomposition, is is an external force,

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Speaker 1: and then you have what's called autolysis. Autosis is almost

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Speaker 1: like self digestion. So you've got to sell the breakdown

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Speaker 1: this taking place within the body, and the body kind

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Speaker 1: of begins to consume itself. But you've got this odd

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Speaker 1: thing that you have to kind of factor in to

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Speaker 1: your assessment, and that's that the body is kind of

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Speaker 1: contained and protected more so than other bodies. His body

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Speaker 1: would have gone through significant decomposition, all changes just simply

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Speaker 1: based on autolis, so the tissue would be very, very

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Speaker 1: difficult to kind of actually assessed. Particularly at the scene.

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Speaker 1: I feel there was a statement that was made by

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Speaker 1: this poor gentleman that had the unfortunate circumstance of finding

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Speaker 1: this this poor little baby in the suitcase, and he

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Speaker 1: he actually made a statement. He said he was able

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Speaker 1: to look into his face and he felt like and

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Speaker 1: you could hear him he was holding back tears when

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Speaker 1: he said it. He said, I felt like this little

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Speaker 1: boy was asking me to help me. Let that sink

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Speaker 1: in just for a second. But what we can assess

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Speaker 1: from that is that when this man, who is probably

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Speaker 1: not used to seeing the sort of thing, open the case,

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Speaker 1: he was able to stare into this baby's face, he

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Speaker 1: could appreciate the face. So that means that he that

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Speaker 1: the body was not that far gone to the point

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Speaker 1: where the body was in some kind of liquefied state,

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Speaker 1: which does happen sometimes with decomposition, so his features were

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Speaker 1: probably still appreciable. And that's that's horrific to think of.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's kind of the first blush. And this

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Speaker 1: is this gentleman, this much and hunter that was out there.

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Speaker 1: He's actually the first person to put eyes on in

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Speaker 1: this discovery. So that I think that that's probably pretty

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Speaker 1: significant here, and we can get into two more of

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Speaker 1: the detailed relative to trace evidence and this sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, he comes across in this isolated area out

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Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, and this is truly in

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Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. This odd suitcase to begin with,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's very garish, and that kind of

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Speaker 1: goes along with Vegas, right, Vegas is garish, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's bright, illuminated and here you are in rural

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Speaker 1: South Indiana and you're minding your old business, just out

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Speaker 1: collecting mushrooms, and you see this suitcase just sitting in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a place that it does not belong.

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Speaker 1: And I think that possibly if he had to do

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Speaker 1: over again, he wouldn't have wanted to have opened the

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Speaker 1: thing up, because this is an image that's going to

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Speaker 1: live with him for the rest of his natural one days.

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Speaker 1: I am not being flipped here, Joe. I truly am not,

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Speaker 1: and I am not meaning in the disrespect it. The

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Speaker 1: one thing that I have learned since I have begun

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Speaker 1: my career in crime investigation. I will never open any

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Speaker 1: package that I find, and I truly am not being flipped.

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Speaker 1: I am as serious as a heart attack, as we

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Speaker 1: say it in the South. I will never open any

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Speaker 1: discarded package or suitcase that I find on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road or or anywhere for that matter, because

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Speaker 1: the idea of what I'm going to find inside. I

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Speaker 1: know that I could not cope with what this poor

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Speaker 1: gentleman did when he opened that suitcase and found a body.

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Speaker 1: It is just heart heart wrenching. He's going to be

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Speaker 1: ravaged by this emotionally. This is not something that you

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Speaker 1: just you know that you can just kind of blow

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Speaker 1: off and forget. It bores down into your soul. This

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Speaker 1: kind of thing particularly, it would be hard enough even

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Speaker 1: for me. You know, there have been cases where I've

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Speaker 1: gone out where mass shootings, for instance, like where families

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Speaker 1: completely wiped out in a house. I've actually found a

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Speaker 1: body before and you say, well, Morgan, you you know

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Speaker 1: your death investigator. Of course you find bodies. No I don't, No,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I show up its scenes after people have

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Speaker 1: found bodies. And I still remember a case in particular

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Speaker 1: where I had a kid that had fled from his

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Speaker 1: father as his father is wiping out the family, and

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Speaker 1: he hid in a closet and the father had gotten

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Speaker 1: to him and shot him in the closet, closed the door,

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Speaker 1: and the kid was unaccounted for. And I'm the person

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Speaker 1: that found him. I'll never forget that as long as

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Speaker 1: I live. And I was in the midst of all

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Speaker 1: these other bodies when that happened. But that kid's body

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Speaker 1: huddled in that closet out of fear. It will stay

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Speaker 1: with me in my mind's eye for the rest of

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Speaker 1: my life. Can you imagine you're in this kind of

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Speaker 1: semi forested area, you know, where people hunt mushrooms. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be dark essentially, because that's where mushrooms grow, you know,

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Speaker 1: tree covered all that sort of stuff, And you walk

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Speaker 1: up on this thing and it's kind of calling out

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Speaker 1: to you. You can't help, but you gotta walk over

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Speaker 1: and figure out what it is. Maybe he jostled it

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Speaker 1: a little bit and said, wow, this is heavy, you

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Speaker 1: know what's in here? And he opens it up, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he comes face to face with this a

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Speaker 1: little boy. Every time I don't mean sometime, I mean

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Speaker 1: every time I've ever worked in a case where an

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Speaker 1: individual has found a body, they have consistently said when

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Speaker 1: you ask them to kind of retell their story, without fail,

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Speaker 1: they will say, I couldn't believe it was happening. I

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Speaker 1: can't believe this is what's going on. And I can

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Speaker 1: only imagine for this man that was out just you know,

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Speaker 1: collecting mushrooms, that's what happened with him. I think that

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Speaker 1: for a moment he was stunned that what he was

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Speaker 1: actually viewing there before him. But at some point in time,

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Speaker 1: you gotta shake it off, you gotta get your phone out,

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Speaker 1: and you've gotta call nine one. And I think that

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Speaker 1: probably when the police showed up, they were equally stunned.

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Speaker 1: How do they begin to process a scene like this,

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Speaker 1: given that the little boy was enclosed in the suitcase.

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Speaker 1: Are you worried as much about the outside, like literally

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Speaker 1: the area where the case was found, or you just

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Speaker 1: concentrated on the suitcase itself since he was enclosed. This

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Speaker 1: is so bizarre, you know that good Lord just didn't

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Speaker 1: set this case down there in the middle of the wilderness.

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Speaker 1: As an investigator, I would be very interested in the periphery.

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Speaker 1: What points of access do you have to this location?

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Speaker 1: Is there a common path that people walk down when

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Speaker 1: they're kind of you know, traps in through the woods

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Speaker 1: out here, and we know that this gentleman is looking

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Speaker 1: for mushrooms? How many other people have been out there?

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Speaker 1: And we're we're in the middle of deer season right now,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they're I've got friends to go to

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Speaker 1: Indiana to hunt deer because it is such a great

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Speaker 1: place to hunt that have leases on property and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Is this scenaria that hunters would

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Speaker 1: go through, and then you've got game path, but there's

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Speaker 1: past that game actually take, so you have to kind

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Speaker 1: of separate those things out. When you begin to think

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Speaker 1: about this environment, you know who has access to it,

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Speaker 1: what major roads are around it. Is it a place

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Speaker 1: that a perpetrator might use because they feel as though

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Speaker 1: it's out of sight, that it's a place that you know,

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Speaker 1: you can take an item so that no one would

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Speaker 1: see it and If that's the case, why would you

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Speaker 1: leave it in plain sight once you got to this location.

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Speaker 1: Was it something that was done in a hurry or

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Speaker 1: was it something that was specifically planned. I was looking

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Speaker 1: at the photographs of this case, and one of the

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Speaker 1: things that really really caught my attention. I mean, from

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Speaker 1: Jump Street, there's this. I urge anybody to go out

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Speaker 1: there and take a look. There. There's a photograph that

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Speaker 1: obviously the police had had snapped because it's got a

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Speaker 1: tape measure adjacent to it. And that's that's what we call,

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Speaker 1: you know, placing a scale in the photograph so that

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Speaker 1: you can get an idea of how tall the dimensions

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Speaker 1: of this thing. And when I was looking at the

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Speaker 1: looking at the suitcase, I noticed something about it. First off,

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Speaker 1: the handle was dirty. It's got one of those retractable

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Speaker 1: handles on it, and it was dirty. It looked like

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Speaker 1: it had like dry dirt or mud that was on

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Speaker 1: the handle. And secondly, here's the thing. This thing's got

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Speaker 1: wheels on it. I guess what. There was mud on

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Speaker 1: the wheels, I think. And this is this is kind

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Speaker 1: of chilling with this precious baby's body in there, like

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Speaker 1: they're walking through the concourse at an airport. They're walking

293
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Speaker 1: through the woods dragging this suitcase containing this little boy's

294
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Speaker 1: body within it, like they're going to their gate to

295
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Speaker 1: catch a point. There's mud on these wheels. They drug

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Speaker 1: it out there, set it out, and I'm assuming they

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Speaker 1: set it out when handle extended, because that's a picture

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Speaker 1: that the police had of it. And again that's another

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Speaker 1: indication I think of what a callous, callous, heartless actus is.

300
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Speaker 1: When they started to process the suitcase you just mentioned

301
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Speaker 1: the wheels. Given what you just said, what kind of

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Speaker 1: tests I mean, would it have been very in depth

303
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 1: on the dirt or residue on the wheels to see

304
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Speaker 1: where the suitcase had been. It all depends on how

305
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 1: much how much value the investigative agency places in certain

306
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 1: types of trace evidence. Some agencies will say, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we want to go the extra step and have, say,

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00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: for instance, a soil assessment conducted. And what I mean

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Speaker 1: by that is in this particular area of Indiana, your

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Speaker 1: north obviously of the Ohio River and not it's not

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Speaker 1: too far away as crow flies. I guess that from

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Speaker 1: a a geographic and a geological perspective, that layer of

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Speaker 1: top soil there is going to be distinct to that

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Speaker 1: area for a lot of reasons. But when you begin

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Speaker 1: to think about the local flora, that is, the plants

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Speaker 1: that grow in the area, when you begin to think

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Speaker 1: about how that area was formed thousands and thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of years ago, and not just thousands of years ago,

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Speaker 1: but even recently relative to to sediment in those sorts

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Speaker 1: of things, that soil is going to be unique to

321
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Speaker 1: that location. If you're coming out of let's say Appalachia,

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Speaker 1: let's say that he originated in Appalachia, in in the

323
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 1: mountains in a location there that that soil in in

324
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,439
Speaker 1: that range is going to be different. Then say soil

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Speaker 1: that you might find and what might be considered bottom land.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you're getting closer and closer to a river,

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Speaker 1: it's it's going to have a very distinct composition to it.

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Speaker 1: And so from a forensic standpoint, if we can do

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Speaker 1: soil sampling and take a sample from that piece of luggage,

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Speaker 1: that's something that that might be significant. But are there

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Speaker 1: other trace elements that are on there? These tests on

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Speaker 1: soil in particular, these are what are referred to as

333
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Speaker 1: a morphologic assessment, and what that means is that you

334
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: have to examine it primarily microscopically, because each sample will

335
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 1: have a very specific appearance depended upon the type of soil.

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Speaker 1: It is. Every region that you go to is unique

337
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Speaker 1: to itself, and so you begin to narrow things down.

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Speaker 1: For my money, this is going to play a big

339
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Speaker 1: part in this because first off, we've got this baby that's,

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Speaker 1: you know, encased in the suitcase. Well, suitcase implies travel,

341
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: doesn't it. So first off, in I think in the

342
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 1: investigator's mind, you're thinking, well, is his point of origin

343
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 1: here in South Indiana? Well, whoever brought him here had luggage?

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Speaker 1: Why did they have luggage, and why did they place

345
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: a little boy in it? Well, there, there's a high

346
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: probability they may have traveled from somewhere else, So that

347
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: cannot be off of the table. I have to begin

348
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: to think as an investigator that I've got to broaden

349
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: my investigative spectrum here and considered that this little boy

350
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: may have originated from somewhere other than the local population.

351
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Speaker 1: The investigation then turns to the inside of a suitcase.

352
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: What are the investigators looking for their Well, specific points

353
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: of identity, and that's what you're looking for to begin with,

354
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: this is a labor intensive undertaking to take this precious

355
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: little angel, and as as it has been stated in

356
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Speaker 1: the news, fold him, fold him up, And we don't

357
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: really know what that means. Maybe that originated with the

358
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Speaker 1: police department. It's an interesting descriptor though. If they're saying

359
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: he's folded, that means that goes to points of contact

360
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: on his body and the entire environment, the interior environment

361
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: of this case. So that means that whoever did this,

362
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: this is labor intensive. So they're gonna be putting their

363
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: hands over all of the surfaces that are found there

364
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: in When you're handling a piece of evidence like this,

365
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: you need to treat it as gingerly as you would

366
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 1: if you were trying to diffuse a bomb, because the

367
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: slightest little movement, the slightest thing that you do that

368
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: is not clearly considered and thought out, you can blow

369
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 1: the whole case because you're going to disrupt something. Just

370
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: think about fingerprints, those things that we leave behind with fingerprints,

371
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 1: they're very fragile, I mean terribly fragile. All it takes

372
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: is for somebody not to be paying attention, and you

373
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 1: can eradicate a fingerprint by simply dragging your hand across

374
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: the surface, because they're there fingerprints present as a result

375
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: of of oil on the fingertips. You know that that

376
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: cover our friction ridges that leave this imprint behind. So

377
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: and we know what it's like. You know, even on

378
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 1: a surface, you know, in our kitchen or something that's

379
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: an oily, you know, you might have a dot of

380
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: oil that's there and you just barely touch it. Will

381
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: you change the configuration of just that spilled oil just

382
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: by introducing your finger into that and moving it about

383
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: or swiping it with your hand or that sort of thing.

384
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: Same principle with with fingerprints. You have to be very careful.

385
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: So from from the beginning when there, you know, first

386
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: getting into the suitcase and they begin to open it up,

387
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: that has to be in the forefront of their minds,

388
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, as they're you know, they're beginning to you know,

389
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 1: try to consider how they're going to handle this. My

390
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: understanding is that there was plastic involved with this little

391
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: boy's body, that someone had taken the time to wrap

392
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: him in plastic. Well, plastic is what's referred to as

393
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: kind of a smooth, non poor surface. Okay, so there's

394
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: a high probability that you can raise a print off

395
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: of that. I don't know if they removed this little

396
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: boy's body from the case at the scene, because that

397
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: would be your first inclination. It's just it's the humanity

398
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: within us that wants to do that to kind of

399
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: secure him. Or did they leave him in there. We

400
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: know the case was opened because the mushroom hunter actually

401
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: said that he looked into the little boy's face and

402
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: he felt so a little boy was saying, you know,

403
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: help me. That was the quote that he gave. So

404
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 1: did they take it a step further? Did they actually

405
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 1: remove him physically from the case at that point in

406
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: time when the police were it's seen, or did they

407
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: leave him encased in there? Now, the best thing that

408
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: could happen, as horrific as it sounds, is for him

409
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: to remain in place, the body to remain in place

410
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: in the in the in the encasement, because that that

411
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: goes to the concept of the pristine nature of the evidence.

412
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: If you don't remove him, then you have a higher

413
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: probability of saving any of this fragile evidence is in there.

414
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: It's not just fingerprints, it's fiber evidence too. It's also

415
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: d NA because you can have, for instance, if somebody

416
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: did not use gloves in this environment, and even if

417
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: they did to a certain degree, but greater so if

418
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: they did not use gloves, you've got an opportunity to

419
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: perhaps recover touch DNA, which comes about as a result

420
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: of slopping dead skin cells, So those could be deposited everywhere. Again,

421
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: very fragile, almost like talcum powder, probably even more so

422
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: than talcoum powder. And then hair evidence, Say if the

423
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: individual that's moving this little boy around Joscelyn folding him

424
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: up as as they they've been saying, what if they're

425
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: shedding hair into this environment and that hair is specifically

426
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: identifiable back to an individual. And again the hair can

427
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: contain DNA as well, So there's a lot to considering.

428
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: You do this in this kind of austere environment at

429
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: Crome sing outdoors where guy's hunting from mushrooms, you can

430
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: lose all kinds of stuff out there. So it's important

431
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: that you get this back, this suitcase, into the hands

432
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: of the people at the laboratory so they can begin

433
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: to do their assessment collection of all trace evidence. If

434
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: they're going to have to, say, for instance, look for fingerprints,

435
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: they have to decide how they're going to do this.

436
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: Are they going to dust the case? Are they going

437
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: to use what's called idine fuming, which is generally done

438
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: on things rougher surfaces like paper and wood. Are they

439
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: going to do superglue? You know we've talked about superclue before.

440
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: You know, where you you warm super glue up, as

441
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: it fumes up, it lands on you know, these areas

442
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: that these fatty lipids that are contained in the in

443
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: the fingerprints that are left behind, and it frees it

444
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: forever and ever. Amen, So you have you have it

445
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: there where it can be assessed. So you have to

446
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: make all of these determinations. Oh and by the way,

447
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: we've got to examine this boy's body too, so you

448
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: can see how involved this is. And you don't want

449
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: to do all of this at the scene outdoors. You

450
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: want to try to do it back in a protected

451
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: space at the corner's office, the emmy's office, and certainly

452
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: as the crime lab as well. I was really intently

453
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: listening to you talking about the fingerprints inside the super case,

454
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: because that is indeed how this little boy was identified.

455
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: His mother's fingerprints were found on the trash bag inside

456
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: the suitcase. But I was wondering, Joe, what happens if

457
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: the trash bag when they touched it is messed up,

458
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: if it's crumbled, If it's crushed and that's how they

459
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: touched it, does that impact the findings that you get

460
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: trying to pull a fingerprint, it can smudge it desperately.

461
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, Jackie, because if you've, okay,

462
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: the initial position that you find any item like this

463
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: at a crom scene, that is more than likely the

464
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: way the perpetrator left it. Okay, we have to think

465
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: about that, and you know, for crom scene investigators and

466
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: forensic technicians, you have to essentially back your way out

467
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: of the evidence, if you will, to try to unravel it,

468
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: to understand it and go through what you think are

469
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: the possibilities of how the perpetrator initiated all this and

470
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: left the scene. So you have to kind of walk

471
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: your way back through it very carefully, to take everything

472
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: into consideration relative to latent prince meaning prints that are unseen. Okay,

473
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: and that's important for us to remember where was it

474
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: that she last made contact with the bag? Where did

475
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: she exactly place her hands, and not just the interior bag,

476
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: but also exterior. Remember the exterior has been exposed to

477
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: the elements, but there still might be a chance under

478
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: certain circumstances with protected areas that brings us Also Remember

479
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: think back to what I was saying just a second ago,

480
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: and this thought just occurred to me. If you've gotten

481
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: mud that's on the exterior of the case, what if

482
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: maybe it was raining, okay, or the surface was wet,

483
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: and this individual slipped as they were moving this suitcase

484
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: through this muddy environment, this dirty environment. What if just

485
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: for a second, they grabbed hold of the case after

486
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: they had fallen, and they've got mud on their hands,

487
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: and they placed their hands on the exterior of that case. Well,

488
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: that's not going to be a print that's left behind

489
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: by the fatty lipids that naturally occur on the surface

490
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: of our skin. Now that that's going to be a print.

491
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: That's that's that's transferred onto their by virtue of the

492
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: dirt that's left behind. Can you pick up detail in that? Yeah,

493
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: And that kind of falls into a category that we

494
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: call plastic prints, which is it's different than a latent

495
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: print that you can latent print is unseen. So this

496
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: kind of immediately you know, you look at something that's

497
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: left behind where you have this medium that's like mud

498
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: or oil or dirt or any number of things grease,

499
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: and you can actually look at you can eyeball and say,

500
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, there's there's a handprint there, or that

501
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: looks like somebody put their finger there. Well, if that's

502
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: protected on the outside, if that's still there, you have

503
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: to be very careful with the exterior as well. Those

504
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 1: types of prints are much more difficult to pick up

505
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: detail on. It's really hard to pick up specific detail

506
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: because you know, the way print examiners actually identified prints

507
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 1: as they're looking for what are called points. You have

508
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: overall classifications, you know, loops and worlds and all those

509
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: sorts of things. But within the general overall classification, you

510
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: look for points of identification in there, which are called minutia,

511
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: these tiny little things. That's what makes prints unique. You know,

512
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: you've got ending ridges, you've got pores, you've got dots,

513
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: you've got deltas. There's a whole list of these things

514
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: that are in there, and everybody's print is unique within

515
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: that structure of the overall classification. You can't generally pick

516
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: that up and say a muddy print, but you can

517
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: say somebody put their hand there. Kara Jordan's was found

518
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: abandoned in a suitcase in a rural area. But the

519
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: old death investigator within me screams the question, I want

520
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: to know what brought him to this spot. It's horrible

521
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: enough that he's in the suitcase, but how did he

522
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: get in it? What was he deceased when he was

523
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: placed in the case. Was he still alive? And if

524
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: if he if he didn't die as a result of

525
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: being placed into the suitcase. What what exactly brought about

526
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: his death? Here is what the medical examiner determined. The

527
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: autopsy says that there is no external injuries on the body.

528
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: Cairo died from an electoral light imbalance. Now I've had

529
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: you try to explain this to me before, Joe, what

530
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: is an electro light and how can it kill you?

531
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: Electrolytes are minerals that are contained with our body that

532
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: we are heavily depended upon. You know, We've got calcium,

533
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: you've got phosphates. There's a number of them that you know.

534
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 1: I use this term a lot there the guardrails, I

535
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: think for our metabolism. Then they're either positively or negatively charged.

536
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: They regulate all of the various activities in our body. Okay,

537
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: and you know you think about sodium, for instance, that's

538
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: an electroc light, and you hear a lot about sodium

539
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: because it's in all of these sports strinks. You know,

540
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: they you know, they're talking about electro light replacement for instance.

541
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: It is for sure something that needs to happen with

542
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: sports drinks. You know, we can get into that line.

543
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: That's much. But they're loaded with sugar. So the electro

544
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: lights are naturally occurring in foods. For instance, you can

545
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: eat a piece of avocado and replenish electro lights as

546
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: opposed to buying something off the shell for instance that's

547
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: loaded with sugar and it's infused with electro lights. But

548
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 1: they're naturally occurring in our food sources. So once these

549
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: electro lights are kind of bled out of our system,

550
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: once they're diminished, every system within our body is impacted.

551
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm talking about your nervous system, your heart, your lungs,

552
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: your muscles. With an absence of electro lights can't repair themselves.

553
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: For instance, cellular respiration can't take place, so you know

554
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: your cells are screaming for oxygen. So when you have

555
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: an electro light imbalance. You literally begin to starve your

556
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: body and it can lead to things. You know, on

557
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: the mile side, you have headaches, you can have dizziness,

558
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: you can have lethargy, which is kind of a wasted appearance,

559
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: you know, where you're you're tired, you can't go on.

560
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: But it can also lead to more serious things where

561
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: you've got like severe abdominal problems that are presenting with

562
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: things like cramping so badly that it's like somebody sticking

563
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: a hot poker in your belly. You can have severe headaches,

564
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: blinding headaches to the point where it's impacting your ability

565
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: to communicate. Your speech becomes slurred, vision becomes you know,

566
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: kind of fuzzy. It can lead to a stroke, and

567
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: in that same conversation, when you've got a sodium depletion,

568
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: for instance, it can also lead to heart attack as well.

569
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: You know, like when I say heart attack, I hate

570
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: using that term because it's not so broad. You can

571
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 1: lead to this kind of electrical malfunction within your heart

572
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: that causes your heart to cease beating. There's any number

573
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: of things with in your body that can go wrong

574
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: as a result of being starved of electro lights. Some

575
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: people believe the best way to hydrate is to take

576
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: on these sports drinks and you know, boost their level

577
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: of electro lights in your body. Because you're you're particularly

578
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: with viral viral events, these electro lights are being bled off.

579
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: And I think that in this baby's circumstances, I think

580
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: that that's that's the conclusion that they arrived at. I

581
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: heard what you said, Joe, I truly did hear you.

582
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean I really understand it. Is it similar or

583
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: could you compare it to basically being starved of water?

584
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: Is it the same thing as being dehydrated? Dehydration will

585
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: lead to an electro light and balance again. You know,

586
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: water even in its basic form it it has electro

587
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: lights in it. It's not infused or anything. But there

588
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: are certain things that you can find components of water

589
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: that are contain they're in because it's when you say

590
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: you're drinking water, you know, people think age two, oh,

591
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: and you are. But you know there's other stuff, other

592
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: minerals that will be found in water that you can

593
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: you can have now as the purpose of having an

594
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: infused drink, you know, because it's electrolytes are in introduced

595
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: into water, okay, into into this liquid it'll be they'll

596
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: be naturally occurring sometimes and so yeah, it leads to dehydration,

597
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: particularly if you've got an ongoing illness. You know, I

598
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 1: just think you know, many of us have had the flu.

599
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: You know, most of us have had the flu over

600
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: the course of our life, and that's a viral infection,

601
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: and so we know how badly we feel when you're sick.

602
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: You don't really want to take anything on. What's the

603
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: old adage, what is it, feed of fever, starve a cold,

604
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: Feed a cold, and starve a fever. Okay, well, you

605
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: got it right then, So you think about these things

606
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna take on because your body is burning up everything,

607
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, when you're ill, and you have to continue

608
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: to take on nourishment, and part of that nourishment are

609
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: these electrolytes, and dehydration ism is a bad problem when

610
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: you're sick, particularly with a viral infection. There are a

611
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: lot of things that come about. You think about the

612
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: stomach problems. You can either have it coming out of

613
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: one end or the other, as people say, and every

614
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: time that occurs, you become more and more diminished, particularly

615
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: from a nutritional standpoint. Electrolytes kind of regulate our our

616
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: pH in our body, our assets and our basis and

617
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: how our pH level is in our body. And again

618
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: that's a big indicator of our level of health. It's

619
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: one of the things they will check for many times

620
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: at the doctor's office. You begin to think about certain

621
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: other mineral levels that are in your body. If you're diminished,

622
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 1: particularly from level of certain vitamins you have in your body,

623
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: if if you're not taking things on relative to whatever

624
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: kind of you know, diet that you're on, and when

625
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: you're sick, it just magnifies the circumstances. In this slip

626
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: boy's case, they made a determination of viral gastro into writus.

627
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: Viral gastro intorritis did not come about as a result

628
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: of an electro light imbalance. The electro light imbalance came

629
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: about as a result of the viral gastro into writis. Well,

630
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: what's the origin of that, Well, we can have gastro

631
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: into writus. That will you know if you have certain

632
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: medical conditions. I think that the one that really comes

633
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: to mind that these and I have friends that have

634
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: Chrome's disease, for instance, and they have kind of an

635
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: in dwelling, ongoing gastro into writus. And when you hear

636
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: itis like that, that means like an inflammation of your

637
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 1: gut essentially your bowel, and it's highly inflamed. You never

638
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,479
Speaker 1: feel well. It's you know, they have really difficult time

639
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: keeping anything down or keeping anything in their system. Well,

640
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: I gotta jump in here, Joe, because I can tell

641
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: you from personal experience. Yeah, I had gastro intrheus when

642
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: I was pregnant, and I actually had it instead of

643
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: morning sickness, and I lost sixteen pounds in ten days.

644
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 1: It's devastating, it really is. And that's what was going

645
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: on with with this baby. I started this conversation talking

646
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 1: about being soothed by your mama. When you're little, you're

647
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: sick to your stomach, you don't feel well, and the

648
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: first inclination is to you want mama to make it

649
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: all better. You want her to soothe you help you.

650
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: Gastro Enteritis you can have sometimes you can have a

651
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: raging fever. Again, you're bleeding off electrolytes there. Certainly you

652
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: can have horrible diarrhea with this, and again you're losing

653
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: these essential nutrients out of your body via that way

654
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: as well. It can lead to vomiting and all of

655
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,959
Speaker 1: this is like a perfect storm, and if it goes untreated,

656
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 1: it it can lead to a terminal event. You're going

657
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: to die, particularly if you're you're little, you know, your

658
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: little word. We're talking about five year old that had

659
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: this horrible condition that he wasn't receiving any relief for.

660
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: It's one thing if you have the condition and you're

661
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: being offered nutrients, you're being offered water that you're gonna

662
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 1: be able to stave off dehydration, and you know that

663
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: you're going to get some type of food down you

664
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: chicken noodle suit or whatever the case might be, that

665
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: you can ingest that your body is going to be

666
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: able to fuel itself off of where you're gonna replenish

667
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: what has been lost at that point in time that

668
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: that didn't happen. You know, lots of times will gastro

669
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: under eyes. It's so bad that you have to be

670
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: taking the hospital and they'll hang an I V on

671
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: you and they'll be able to, you know, push these

672
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: things into your system that otherwise you cannot ingest because

673
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: you feel so bad. He didn't, he didn't have that

674
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: done for him. He didn't. This little boy, it appears

675
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: at least, was just allowed to dwindle away in excruciating pain.

676
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: Would no comfort offered whatsoever, I mean whatsoever, And he

677
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: was just allowed to die. What you're telling me, Joe,

678
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: is that if this little boy had been given substances

679
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: to replenish his electrolytes, that he would survive. Yeah, it

680
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: was that simple. It was literally that simple. And it

681
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't have required very much at all, not not a

682
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: lot of effort. Yet he would have been in discomfort.

683
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: I mean, all of us are in discomfort when we

684
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: have the flu, and this is essentially what this is,

685
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: is the stomach flu. He he died as a result

686
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: of untreated stomach flu is what it comes about. And

687
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: you know, I said, it's viral gastro enterritis, So you're

688
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: talking about things like the Nora virus, all these viruses

689
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 1: that kind of float around out there and they can

690
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: bring about this attack on your gut. That's what he

691
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: was offering through and it went untreated, which is the

692
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: absolute horror of this. It's one thing when somebody succumbs

693
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: to a natural disease, you know, somebody dies of of

694
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: some horrible disease that we know is going to end

695
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: in a fatal event, that gastro anentietis. Are you kidding me?

696
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: That's the method that was used to end his life.

697
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: He was essentially this is what we would call probably

698
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: a passive homicide. You just allow him to die as

699
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: opposed to taking action that could have rendered him safe.

700
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: All it would have taken is to go to the

701
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: grocery store and buy one of these damned sports drinks

702
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: and just give it to him, administer it to him.

703
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: But by the time he died, he was so far gone.

704
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: I don't know that I don't know that there's any

705
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: kind of intervention that could have taken as to the

706
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: reason of why he was not given treatment. We find

707
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: from the mother's social meeting. Yeah, she posted several times

708
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 1: that she believed that her son was trying to kill

709
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: her and was possessed by a demon. As police have

710
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: issued a warrant for the mother's arrest in this little

711
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: boy Cairo's death, and have arrested a friend of hers also,

712
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: the question still remains is why this little boy had

713
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: to die. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body

714
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: bags