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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob.

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Speaker 3: Lamb and this is Joe McCormick.

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Speaker 2: Happy Valentine's Day, everybody here in today's episode. You know,

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Speaker 2: I really wanted to cover a paranormal love story of

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Speaker 2: some sort for the holiday, and I gave myself this

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Speaker 2: task and probably spend a little bit too much time

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Speaker 2: looking at different films. I'm trying to figure out what

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Speaker 2: would be what felt like the right fit. I looked

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Speaker 2: at a few different, very well regarded films that seemed

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Speaker 2: to fit the mold, but ended up being drawn into

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Speaker 2: today's selection. The highly stylish nineteen eighty three erotic horror

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Speaker 2: film The Hunger, a movie that was really only on

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Speaker 2: my radar for being a film in which David Bowie

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Speaker 2: plays a vampire. But it's actually so much more than

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Speaker 2: just that. It's become a cult favorite with many do

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Speaker 2: it's heavy goth vibes, it's LGBTQ themes, and it's absolutely

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Speaker 2: bursting at the scenes with visual and sonic pizazz. And

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Speaker 2: I tell you, I hope you like Venetian Blinds, because

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of them in this movie.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and doves, JJ was reminded. JJ also watched the

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Speaker 3: movie this week and we were talking about it off

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Speaker 3: Mike before we started this. JJ reminded me that there

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Speaker 3: are just doves in their house all the Time's full

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Speaker 3: of birds. They have like an open air attics, just

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Speaker 3: birds coming and going all the time. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched this one with my wife, and in fact,

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Speaker 2: it was partially her suggestion. I was brainstorming all these

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Speaker 2: ideas and she pulled up some lists online of paranormal

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Speaker 2: horror films and she was like, how about The Hunger

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, well, you know, The Hunger

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Speaker 2: has been on my radar a little bit. We've it's

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Speaker 2: come up in passing on the show before when we've

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Speaker 2: discussed David Billie films, And so she watched it with me.

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Speaker 3: She really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 2: She loved all the like the gothy eighty eighties vibe

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Speaker 2: to it. But also she pointed out, like, this feels

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Speaker 2: like a feature length music video, and in many ways

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Speaker 2: that is absolutely accurate and one of its strengths.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, turn around Bright Eyes for ninety minutes or

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Speaker 3: a hundred or so. It's but don't let don't get

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Speaker 3: the wrong idea from that. I do think this is

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Speaker 3: actually a very strong film. I liked it a lot,

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that critics apparently largely did not appreciate

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Speaker 3: it when it came out. But I get the feeling

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Speaker 3: this one has has gotten a critical reappraisal, like a

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Speaker 3: lot more people like it now than did when it

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Speaker 3: first released.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I believe that the cult following for it

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Speaker 2: was really building up, you know, within the decade following

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Speaker 2: its release, so you know, kind of a slow build there,

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Speaker 2: but I think it achieved cult status by at least

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Speaker 2: the nineties, as we'll discuss now.

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Speaker 3: One thing I want to say close to the top

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Speaker 3: of this episode is despite the fact that The Hunger

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Speaker 3: is not especially plot driven, I'd say it's more of

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Speaker 3: a mood driven or character driven, it does have some

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Speaker 3: major surprises in store, and we're gonna have to talk

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Speaker 3: about those surprises in the episode, So please be forewarned

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Speaker 3: if you want to see The Hunger without having anything spoiled,

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Speaker 3: and I would recommend that a good time to pause

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Speaker 3: and go watch the movie would be Now.

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Speaker 2: That being said, this movie is so committed to style.

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Speaker 2: I feel like It's one of those where if you're

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Speaker 2: spoiled on it, you can still really enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: So rob like you. I had never seen The Hunger before,

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Speaker 3: but I found it very, as I said, surprising, but

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Speaker 3: also delightful, interesting, different. It felt fresh at its core.

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Speaker 3: I think you could call this kind of a tainted

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Speaker 3: love tale. It's a story primarily about romantic relationships, but

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Speaker 3: one in which it is not all you know, steamy

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Speaker 3: arrows and desire and lust like a lot of vampire

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Speaker 3: love movies are. It's also not rom com energy. It's

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Speaker 3: all cute, falling for you kind of moments. And it's

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Speaker 3: certainly not the case that this is full of feel

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Speaker 3: good morals about the eternal and all conquering power of love.

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Speaker 3: This movie, like other tainted love tales, is about the

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Speaker 3: ambiguities and contradictions of romantic love, the sort of vast

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Speaker 3: gray space that defines a lot of what love is,

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Speaker 3: where people might feel one way but act another, where

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Speaker 3: it's impossible to put your emotions into words, you don't

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Speaker 3: know how to talk about what you're feeling or what

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Speaker 3: your frustrations with your love. Are situations in which people

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Speaker 3: genuinely love one another, but also cause each other pain,

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Speaker 3: where love just gets smashed into a million pieces against

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Speaker 3: the surface of problems that cannot be fixed. And strangely,

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Speaker 3: once I realized that was the kind of movie this was,

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Speaker 3: it helped resolve something curious I noticed while watching The Hunger.

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Speaker 3: Despite the fact that this movie has a different writer,

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Speaker 3: a different director, totally different plot, and for much of

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Speaker 3: its runtime a different star, I really kept being reminded

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Speaker 3: of the other big David Bowie movie we have watched

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Speaker 3: on the show, which was The Man Who Fell to

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Speaker 3: Earth from nineteen seventy six, directed by Nicholas Rogue. That

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Speaker 3: movie stars David Bowie as a tragic alien agent on

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Speaker 3: a mission to Earth to secure water resources which could

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Speaker 3: save his home planet. But of course, that ultimately is

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Speaker 3: a story about failure, you know, about distraction and the

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Speaker 3: inability to sort of stay on task and getting led

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Speaker 3: astray by television and alcohol and love and all.

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Speaker 2: That and table tennis right.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, Yes, So I was thinking while I was watching it,

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Speaker 3: why did these movies feel so similar despite all the

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Speaker 3: totally different creative inputs. Could it just be that the

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Speaker 3: power of David Bowie is so strong that it paves

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Speaker 3: over everything that might be a little part of it,

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Speaker 3: but I really think there are some other truly strong

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Speaker 3: similarities in that both stories involve these tainted love themes.

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Speaker 3: They're both love stories that have genuine feeling and passion

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Speaker 3: in them. They're not just about people using each other

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Speaker 3: for sex or for power or whatever. They are love stories,

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Speaker 3: but they're also tragic love stories that cannot possibly have

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Speaker 3: happy endings, in part because of the sci fi or

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Speaker 3: supernatural mechanics that are operating in each story, and in

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Speaker 3: part because of the kinds of human failings and contradictions

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Speaker 3: that are present in all relationships of mortal humans, not

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Speaker 3: just aliens and vampires. And I guess, since it's been

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Speaker 3: a while, just a refresher. The love story central in

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Speaker 3: The Man Who Fell to Earth is the one between

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Speaker 3: David Bowie's alien character and an earthling played by Candy Clark.

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Speaker 3: That story is at once both genuine and doomed, doomed

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Speaker 3: by Bowie's alien mission and then by the pressures of

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Speaker 3: money and betrayal and alcoholism. In The Hunger, I think

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Speaker 3: one of the central thematic tainted love questions is what

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Speaker 3: if you could only be with the person you love

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Speaker 3: by dooming them to a fate worse than death if

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Speaker 3: you choose to do it anyway, if you choose to

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Speaker 3: be with them knowing that your love is an unspeakable curse,

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Speaker 3: could it really be love? But at the same time,

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Speaker 3: could it really be love if you could stand not

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Speaker 3: to be with them in the first place. I guess

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Speaker 3: we'll have to answer those questions as we go on

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Speaker 3: throughout the episode. But another similarity I would say between

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Speaker 3: The Men Who Fell to Earth and The Hunger is

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Speaker 3: certain the presence of certain cinematography choices. Both of them

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Speaker 3: are very mood driven, and they both have a kind

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Speaker 3: of dreamy, elegic editing style with a lot of slow

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Speaker 3: motion and lingering on wistful and melancholy scenes featuring two

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Speaker 3: subjects who are suffering but who are unable to fix

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Speaker 3: one what's wrong between them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's worth noting. In the commentary track which I

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Speaker 2: listened to, part of the director Tony Scott does mention

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Speaker 2: Nicholas Rogue, the director of The Man Who Fell to Earth,

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Speaker 2: being one of his inspirations, though he singles out the

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Speaker 2: film performance more than anything. But of course the Man

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Speaker 2: Who Felt to Earth is still in the mix. There somewhere,

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Speaker 2: I imagine.

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Speaker 3: On the other hand, I would say The Hunger does

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Speaker 3: not have like the comic elements that we got in

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Speaker 3: The Manufeld to Earth when he's watching all the TVs

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Speaker 3: and screaming, get out of my mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not really much in the way of humor

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Speaker 2: in this picture, and I think that's one of the

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Speaker 2: things that the critics kind of picked up on. They

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Speaker 2: thought it was like too self serious, which I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, if you're dealing with a story like

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Speaker 2: this and you're dealing with, you know, these all these

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Speaker 2: gothic vibes on top of it, like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't think I really was wanting any comic relief

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Speaker 2: in this picture.

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Speaker 3: I certainly was not hurting for want of comic relief.

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Speaker 3: And no, this movie doesn't need that. It's just not

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Speaker 3: its style. It's not what it's about. Another surprising element

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Speaker 3: I found about The Hunger, at least a violation of

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Speaker 3: my expectations going in, was the relatively grounded science fiction subplot.

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Speaker 3: Did not think it would have that kind of thing happening.

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Speaker 3: So this will require some discussion of the plot, but

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Speaker 3: I guess it's good to lay out a bit of

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Speaker 3: the premise here at the top, because we can refer

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Speaker 3: back to that as we talk about the cast and

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Speaker 3: so forth. So two of the main characters of this

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Speaker 3: movie begin the story as vampires, as vampire lovers, and

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Speaker 3: they are faced with a unique consequence of their condition.

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Speaker 3: In the lore of this movie, the vampires spawn enjoys

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Speaker 3: a long life of suspended youth and vitality for perhaps

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Speaker 3: hundreds of years, but at some point it all comes

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Speaker 3: crashing down as a kind of rapid degenerative aging disease,

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Speaker 3: where the vampire spawn suddenly grows old and withers into

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Speaker 3: a powerless but still conscious, crumbling husk over the course

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Speaker 3: of a few days or weeks. So in the movie,

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Speaker 3: Catherine Denov plays a sort of vampire queen of ancient

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Speaker 3: but otherwise uncertain origins named Miriam, who is in a

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Speaker 3: centuries long love affair with her vampire spawn, John played

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Speaker 3: by David Bowie. Originally a man, she turned into a

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Speaker 3: vampire sometime in Europe in the seventeen hundreds. There's like

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Speaker 3: a scene of them kissing in a barn in powdered wigs,

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Speaker 3: and so the situation is while they seem to have

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Speaker 3: been happy and ageless, hunting for blood together for hundreds

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Speaker 3: of years. Suddenly, in the modern day setting of the

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Speaker 3: film in New York in the nineteen eighties, John finds

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Speaker 3: himself rapidly aging, and he seems to know this was

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Speaker 3: something that could happen to him one day, but obviously

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Speaker 3: it leaves him greatly demoralized and distressed. So this brings

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Speaker 3: him into contact with another one of our major characters,

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Speaker 3: Sarah Roberts played by Susan Sarandon, who is a research scientist.

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Speaker 3: She's a gerontologist studying diseases that cause accelerated aging, and

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Speaker 3: her work provides some hope of a way to stop

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Speaker 3: the advance of the cellular clock and arrest the rapid

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Speaker 3: advance of age and decay, and so as John desperately

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Speaker 3: seeks her help, she becomes entangled in the lives of

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Speaker 3: these vampires. She doesn't initially know their vampires, of course,

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Speaker 3: and it becomes more than just the kind of mechanical

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Speaker 3: science fiction connection to the story, like she becomes romantically

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Speaker 3: involved as well. But it was so strange to me

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Speaker 3: that the movie ended up having so much having as

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Speaker 3: much science fiction as it did, and also the form

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Speaker 3: the science fiction, because it was not the kind of

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Speaker 3: you know, the kind of loose fantasy science fiction that

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Speaker 3: you get in The Man Who Fell to Earth. It's

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Speaker 3: instead a story about like research scientists in their lab

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Speaker 3: doing experiments on monkeys. And we can come back to

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Speaker 3: that later. But like some of the goorioesst and grossest

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Speaker 3: stuff in the movie is not from the horror premise.

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Speaker 3: It's from the sci fi premise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's so as we'll get to in more

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Speaker 2: detail in a bet. This is based on a novel,

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Speaker 2: a nineteen eighty one novel by Whitley Streiber, And it's

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Speaker 2: my understanding that the original novel is essentially one of

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Speaker 2: these kind of like how would this work treatments of

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Speaker 2: vamporism with sci fi elements bag backing it up, And

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Speaker 2: I'm to understand that the script for the picture ended

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Speaker 2: up drifting somewhat away from that vision, and then Tony

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Speaker 2: Scott's direction and the work of all the other talented

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Speaker 2: folks involved in like the visual and sonic flare of

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Speaker 2: the picture are able to bring it into more of

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Speaker 2: a territory. So, you know, it's kind of an interesting

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Speaker 2: trajectory to like maybe start in something that's a little

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Speaker 2: more grounded in the sci fi and ending up via

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Speaker 2: a curve, ending up with something more surreal and ambiguous,

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Speaker 2: but the sci fi roots are still present.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. But it creates such an an unusual and

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Speaker 3: interesting millage of themes. It's just it doesn't really feel

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Speaker 3: like any other movie I can think of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does stand apart. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons that it just so instantly captivated me.

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Speaker 2: Because some of the other pictures I was checking out,

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Speaker 2: they they felt more like a definite artifact of their time,

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Speaker 2: and or they fit more clearly into genres that we're already,

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Speaker 2: you know, more familiar with on the show. And this one, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it really stood out. It seemed to have a different

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Speaker 2: vision and exist in its own sonic and visual universe.

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Speaker 3: Now, another big surprise that this movie had for me

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Speaker 3: is that I really expect there to be more David

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Speaker 3: Bowie in this David Bowie movie. He almost gets the

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Speaker 3: treatment of Steven Sagall an executive decision. Maybe that's a

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Speaker 3: horrible comparison, Maybe more like Drew Barrymore in Scream or

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Speaker 3: Samuel L. Jackson in Deep Blue Sea. Though of course

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Speaker 3: all of those characters, what happens is they die. The

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Speaker 3: fate of David Bowie's character in this movie is even

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Speaker 3: more tragic and horrifying than death. But I think it's

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Speaker 3: interesting that I don't know if there's a formal showbiz

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Speaker 3: term for this, but I would call it like a

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Speaker 3: meta shock. You know, it is a violation of your expectations,

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Speaker 3: which are established. Those expectations are established not through the

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Speaker 3: narrative of the movie itself, but through your real world

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Speaker 3: and knowledge of the movie's marketing context. So, for example,

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Speaker 3: it is a surprising move to kill off the character

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Speaker 3: played by the big star, the presence of whom ostensibly

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Speaker 3: brought people into the movie theaters in the first place.

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Speaker 3: That's always a surprising move. It's a bold and gutsy

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Speaker 3: move usually, though I think it's a lot less gimmicky

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Speaker 3: in The Hunger than it is in most of these

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Speaker 3: metashock deaths you get in the film industry. In this movie,

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Speaker 3: it it feels less like a gimmicky attempt at surprise,

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Speaker 3: and instead it emphasizes the movie's kind of shadow themes

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Speaker 3: of unfairness and the injustice of love and of real life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, and I do want to stress for anyone

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Speaker 2: out there who happens to be interested in The Hunger

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Speaker 2: primarily because of David Bowie, still valid reason to be

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Speaker 2: interested in this film. David Bowie will not disappoint you.

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Speaker 2: The role. May have less screen time than you expected,

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Speaker 2: but he still makes the most of that screen time.

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Speaker 2: So definitely worth checking out for Bowie fans.

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Speaker 3: Though also for some of the screen time he does have,

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Speaker 3: he looks like Richard Lynch or he looks like he Oh,

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Speaker 3: this is an unkind comparison, but he looks like a

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Speaker 3: better version of Guy Pearce and the old man makeup

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Speaker 3: in Prometheus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great observation. But you know, Prometheus didn't

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Speaker 2: have Dick Smith. As we'll be discussing special effects makeup master.

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Speaker 2: Dick Smith is largely responsible for the aging of David

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Speaker 2: Bowie in this picture. And I think it was Tony

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Speaker 2: Scott on the commentary track pointing out how or maybe

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Speaker 2: it was a maybe with Susan's frand and somebody's pointing

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Speaker 2: out how he's under so much makeup for parts of this.

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Speaker 2: But Bowie would just go to sleep in the chair

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Speaker 2: like he was like super easy going while they were

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Speaker 2: applying you know, hours upon hours of makeup and yeah,

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Speaker 2: and nobody did it better than Dick Smith.

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Speaker 3: It is really great old man makeup, way better than

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Speaker 3: all the other examples I can think of.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, more on that in a bit, but

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Speaker 2: first let's go ahead and roll out the elevator pitch.

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Speaker 2: As the song will play a huge role in the

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Speaker 2: opening sequence of a picture. I'm just going to quote

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Speaker 2: a few lines from the nineteen eighty two goth rock

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Speaker 2: hit Bela Lugosi's Dead by Bowhouse with one pronoun change

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Speaker 2: to make it fit better. The virginal brides file past

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Speaker 2: her tomb strewn with times, dead flowers, bereft in deathly Bloom,

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Speaker 2: alone in a darkened room, the.

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Speaker 3: Count bereft in deathly Bloom. Yes, exactly. Oh what a delivery.

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Speaker 3: Who's the singer of bow House.

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Speaker 2: That's Peter Murphy and we'll sleep. We'll see Peter Murphy

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Speaker 2: in the opening sequence.

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Speaker 3: Here, tremendous flat delivery there, very good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's a class it's it's probably one of,

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Speaker 2: if not the best known, you know, goth tracks out there.

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Speaker 2: Like if you're going to do a goth dance night

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Speaker 2: at a club or something, they need to play Bella

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Speaker 2: Lugosi's dead at least for a little bit. Maybe not

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Speaker 2: the whole with like nine and a half minute runtime,

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Speaker 2: but even still, like, yeah, go ahead and do the

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Speaker 2: nine and a half minute runtime, because the whole song's tremendous.

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Speaker 2: All right, we'll come back to bow House in a bit,

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Speaker 2: but first let's go ahead and listen to a little

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Speaker 2: bit of trailer audio from The Hunger.

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Speaker 4: Sarah Roberts is in jeopardy.

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Speaker 3: Hey lady, how about it?

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Speaker 4: Stay with her? Help her, for she has begun to feel.

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Speaker 3: The awful horror of the Hunger.

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Speaker 4: John Blaylock, the Hunger has given him everlasting life until now.

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Speaker 4: Pray for him. Miriam Blaylock. She feeds one day in

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Speaker 4: seven on the unsuspecting, and soon she will turn into

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Speaker 4: something that you will never be able to forget, no

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Speaker 4: matter how hard and how long you try fear her?

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Speaker 4: What have you done to me.

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Speaker 3: For her life? Signs terminate right here?

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Speaker 4: Haunting, mysterious, sensual, strange, perverse, riveting The Hunger?

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, if you would like to watch The Hunger, well,

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Speaker 2: luckily for you, it's widely available on digital formats as

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Speaker 2: well as home video formats. There's a Blu ray, and

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Speaker 2: I was gonna rent the Blu ray, but it was

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Speaker 2: checked out when I dropped by Video Drum, so I

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Speaker 2: ended up having to make do with the DVD version,

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Speaker 2: which was also solid. I believe both the Blue and

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Speaker 2: the DVD feature the same commentary track, which is a

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Speaker 2: bit dry but still informative, featuring both Tony Scott and

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Speaker 2: Susan Sarandon, though it sounds like maybe they weren't in

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Speaker 2: the same room, like they recorded them separately and kind

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Speaker 2: of like splice them in. So if you like a

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Speaker 2: nice boisterous commentary track, that maybe this one isn't the one,

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Speaker 2: but it's still a lot of great info in it.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's run through the people involved here,

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Speaker 2: or at least some of them. We can't touch on

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Speaker 2: everybody as usual. But the director is, of course Tony Scott.

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Speaker 2: As previously mentioned, he lived nineteen forty four through twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: the late younger brother of Ridley Scott, who like his brother,

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Speaker 2: came up through British TV commercial production before branching out

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Speaker 2: into films, and this was his first feature theatrical film,

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Speaker 2: and it really throws everything at you from a stylistic standpoint,

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Speaker 2: it's flashy, it's sexy, it's daring, it's somber, it's serious.

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Speaker 2: It delivers all the flare of a music video or

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Speaker 2: a high end commercial, and as we alluded to at

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Speaker 2: the time of its release, it was not a success.

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Speaker 2: Critics panned it, including Roger Ebert, who called it quote

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Speaker 2: an agonizingly bad vampire movie, circling around an exquisitely effective

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Speaker 2: sex scene.

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Speaker 3: Which sex scene.

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Speaker 2: I assume it has to be the big love scene

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Speaker 2: between Sarah and Miriam, which I mean, it's almost I

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Speaker 2: think a disservice to call it a quote unquote sex

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Speaker 2: scene because it's so stylish. It is like like the

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Speaker 2: like the bed is glowing. I think one point, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like it's it's very surreal. It's not it's not

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Speaker 2: raw or explicit, but it is still you know, highly

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Speaker 2: erotic and just. And to Ebert's point, it is effective.

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Speaker 2: But I also don't feel like it comes off as

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Speaker 2: an oasis in a desert in this film or anything

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Speaker 2: to that extent.

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Speaker 3: No, I just would not agree with Ebert on this one.

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Speaker 3: I think the film overall has a lot more to offer. Sorry,

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Speaker 3: just now that we're on the subject, of Tony Scott.

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Speaker 3: I was repeatedly thinking to myself while watching, I can't

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Speaker 3: believe this is made by the same director as Top Gun.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is crazy to think about this, right

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Speaker 2: because Top Gun, which was his follow up, what four

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Speaker 2: years later, that was the next time that the studios

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Speaker 2: gave him a shot at.

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Speaker 3: A film, like three years later.

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Speaker 2: We always say, well, what this one's eighty would have

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Speaker 2: been made in what an eighty two and either yeah,

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Speaker 2: three or four years, so he didn't have to wait

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Speaker 2: that long. But still he was kind of shut out

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Speaker 2: for a little bit there. But then he comes out

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Speaker 2: of the gate with again with Top Gun, which of

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Speaker 2: course is a massive hit. It was the highest grossing

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Speaker 2: film domestic or otherwise for nineteen eighty six. That's a

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Speaker 2: film that cemented Cruise's ascension into long lasting fame and

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Speaker 2: established Scott as not a director of erotic horror, but

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Speaker 2: as an action and thriller director. You know, because when

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Speaker 2: you think about Tony Scott, those tend to be the

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Speaker 2: films you think about. You think about things like eighty

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Speaker 2: seven's Beverly Hills Cop two, nineteen nineties Days of Thunder,

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Speaker 2: ninety three's True Romance, Crimson Tied ninety eight, Enemy of

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Speaker 2: the State, two thousand and four's Man on Fire, or

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Speaker 2: his final film twenty ten's Unstoppable. But yeah, compare this

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Speaker 2: film to top Gun and I'm yeah, like, what connective

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Speaker 2: tissue is there? Really? I mean, I'm sure you could

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Speaker 2: probably get down and point to some of the stylistic

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Speaker 2: touches that are distinctly Tony Scott, But it does kind

401
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Speaker 2: of feel like a complete at least in my eyes,

402
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Speaker 2: it feels like a complete restart of his cinematic trajectory. Now.

403
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Speaker 2: Tony Scott would return to horror twice in the late

404
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Speaker 2: nineties for two episodes of an erotic horror anthology series

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Speaker 2: titled The Hunger, very much spinning off of this film.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, this is one of the reasons I

407
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Speaker 2: think we can assume that by the late nineties there

408
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Speaker 2: was a cult following for this picture, because they decided

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Speaker 2: to produce forty four episodes of a spinoff series on it.

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Speaker 2: The first season was hosted by Terrence stamp Oh general, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was your sexy cryptkeeper for the first season, and

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Speaker 2: then you're a sexy crypt keeper for the second season.

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Speaker 2: Was none other than David Bowie.

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Speaker 3: Got to see this now. Well.

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Speaker 2: The two episodes directed by Tony Scott were The Swords

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Speaker 2: from season one and that starred Balthazar Getty, Amanda Ryan,

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Speaker 2: and Timothy Spall. And then there was a season two

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Speaker 2: episode titled Sanctuary starring Giovanni Ribisi and Lisa Repo Martel.

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Speaker 2: I've never watched it again. They made forty four episodes.

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Speaker 2: Russell McKay directed like six episodes of it, and the

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Speaker 2: cast is pretty extensive as well. Gen Carlo Esposito plays

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Speaker 2: a vampire in one of them. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it's a major vampire role or a small one, but

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Speaker 2: he's in there. Daniel Craig shows up, Margo Kidder, Lori Petty,

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Speaker 2: David Warner, Jason Fleming, among many others. I don't know

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Speaker 2: where off the top of my head, I don't know

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Speaker 2: where this aired. I'm guessing it maybe showed up on

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Speaker 2: USA Network at some point, but I I have no

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Speaker 2: memory of this at all.

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Speaker 3: Sounds tremendous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, by the late nineties, I feel like

432
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: people were coming back around to this film. It's become

433
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: a cult classic for a variety of reasons. It's style,

434
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: it's cast, it's goth vibes. It's LGBTQ elements. Now Tony

435
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 2: Scott sadly passed away in twenty twelve, but fourth noting

436
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: that this film and Ridley Scott's Blade Runner from the

437
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: previous year were both dedicated to their older brother Frank,

438
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: who had passed away in nineteen eighty all Right, I

439
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 2: already mentioned that Whitley Streiber is the author of the

440
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: original novel upon which this is based, came out in

441
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 2: eighty one, the first of a trilogy of vampire novels,

442
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: and these were a follow up to his nineteen seventy

443
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: eight where Wolf novel The Wolfin, which was also adapted

444
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 2: into a film nineteen eighty one's Wolfen starring Albert Finnie.

445
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 3: Which I always confused with the movie Wolf starring Is

446
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 3: it Wolf starring Jack Nicholson.

447
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Wolf is the one with Jack Nicholson. Wolfin is

448
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: the one with Albert Finnie. And then there's the howling,

449
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: you know, the Ocasionally there's a big werewolf bump in

450
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: the horror industry and you get several different horror horror

451
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: films about werewolves more or less at once.

452
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, we go through monster waves, don't we.

453
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, there have been several werewolf films recently. We're kind

454
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: of experiencing a werewolf bump right now.

455
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 3: That would make sense. Yeah, but I feel, you know,

456
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,239
Speaker 3: we had like zombies in the two thousands, and then

457
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: you had a vampire craze after that, and I don't

458
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: know what we're in right now. I think we had

459
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: a witch craze for a bit.

460
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got to come out mummies again, but I'm

461
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 2: waiting on it anyway. This author has written numerous books,

462
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: including The Coming Global Superstorm, which was written with Art

463
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: Bell of all People, and adapted into the two thousand

464
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: and four film The Day After Tomorrow.

465
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 3: Okay.

466
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 2: He's also well known for his nineteen eighty seven ufology

467
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: book Communion, which was adapted into a nineteen eighty nine

468
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: film in which Christopher Walken plays Whitley Stripe.

469
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 3: I've never read that or seen the movie, but I've

470
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 3: had general cultural awareness of them. For some reason. For years,

471
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: I had in my mind Whitley Streiber categorized as somebody

472
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: who is like a promoter of UFO encounter is more

473
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 3: than like a novelist.

474
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think he's apparently both like he definitely he

475
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: claimed very much claims to believe in UFOs and communion

476
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: is presented as a work of nonfiction, but then he

477
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: also has written a lot of fiction as well. I don't,

478
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: as far as I know, he doesn't actually believe in

479
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: the reality of vampires and werewolves, So that's separate from

480
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: the aliens. Okay now, and as far as the screenplay

481
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: goes here, James Costagan, writing as Ian Davis, is one

482
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: of the credited writers. He lived nineteen twenty six through

483
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven. Emmy Award winning screenwriter for fifty

484
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: nine's Little Moon of alban seventy six is Eleanor and

485
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: Franklin and seventy five's Love among the Ruins. Who was

486
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 2: also a writer on nineteen eighty five's King David, in

487
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: which Richard Gear battles George Eastman. And then we also

488
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: have Michael Thomas credited on the screenplay, screenwriter, perhaps best

489
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: known for his work on nineteen eighty five's Lady Hawk

490
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: as well as twenty eleven's The Devil's Double. All right, now,

491
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: getting into the cast, starting at the top, this film

492
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: stars Catherine Daneuve, who mentioned her already. She plays Miriam Blaylock.

493
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 2: This is Our Vampire Queen and Yeah, Daneuve very very

494
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: talented actress here obviously born nineteen forty three. I'm not

495
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: sure I had seen her in anything before. French actress

496
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: who has only appeared in a handful of genre pictures

497
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: during the course of her long career. They include nineteen

498
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: sixty five's Repulsion, seventy seven's Lost Soul, seventy nine See

499
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: Here My Love, in eighty eight Frequent Death. She's probably

500
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: best known for such films as sixty four As The

501
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: Umbrellas of Herborg, sixty seven's The Young Girls of Rockfort,

502
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: and nineteen seventies Donkey Skin. This is based on the

503
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: Donkey Skin fairy tale, which I think has come up

504
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: on stuff to blow your mind episodes before the fairy tale,

505
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: not the movie.

506
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, I think we might have talked about

507
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: covering the movie.

508
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I.

509
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 3: Think it's supposed to be pretty weird.

510
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm all for it. You know, if it

511
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: has been move in it, I'm certainly worth another book.

512
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: She also appears in two thousand Dancer in the Dark

513
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: and lends her voice to two thousand and sevens animated

514
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: film Persepolis, based on the graphic novel She was nominated

515
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: for an Academy Award for her leading role in nineteen

516
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: ninety three's End of Chime. So yeah, I think she's

517
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: terrific in this, as we'll discuss. While her character certainly

518
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: has plenty of like fim fatale elements, she's never presented

519
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: as like a cold, unfeeling vamp, and certainly Miriam could

520
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: have been presented in that way. Like her passion is real,

521
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: her love is real. I believe these things when when

522
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: when I experience her character on the screen, all this

523
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: despite the tragic, supernatural ramifications of that passion and that love.

524
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a very ambiguous character, is I mean, is

525
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: she the protagonist of the film or is she the

526
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 3: villain of the film? Should we think of should we

527
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 3: think of John and Sarah as the kind of trading

528
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 3: off protagonists of the film and in a way to

529
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: move as the villain or in a way it's more

530
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: her story than it is anybody else's.

531
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, it does make me wonder who might be

532
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: the the central protagonist of the novel, because there does

533
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: seem to feel it feels like there's maybe a certain

534
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: amount of confusion with this with this story as it's

535
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: as it's presented in the film, like, yeah, whose story

536
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: is it? And you know, some would argue, you know,

537
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: rather strongly, that a film does need one key protagonist.

538
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: There may essentially be two, but there needs to be

539
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: in the writing of the thing, there needs to be

540
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: like one central protagonist. The writer needs to know who

541
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: that is.

542
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 3: I guess you could argue then it might be Sarah,

543
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: but Sarah also is never She's never really made fully

544
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: aware of the whole emotional arc of the story. The

545
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 3: only character who really knows everything is Miriam, and so anyway,

546
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: I guess we can talk more about that in the

547
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 3: plot if necessary, But either way, I agree with you.

548
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: Danov is wonderful in the movie. I mean, there is

549
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: I think a kind of coldness to her, but it

550
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 3: doesn't come off as cruelty necessarily.

551
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the key coldness, but not cruelty.

552
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, she is somebody who's projecting. I mean, I guess

553
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: this is a problem in a lot of vampire movies

554
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: because you have these characters who are supposed to have

555
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: lived many, many lives. You know, they've been around for

556
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: hundreds or thousands of years in her case, and it

557
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: always raises the question that the normal kinds of performances,

558
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: of human feelings and thoughts and intelligence and memory and

559
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 3: everything that we get in the film in films is

560
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: based on the arc of a normal human lifetime. Like

561
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: you know, part of playing a character is what it

562
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: means to play a character in their youth or in

563
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: middle age or something like that. Vampires achieve a kind

564
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 3: of age that no human ever does, and so that

565
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: raises questions of like, how does that age manifest in

566
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: their character? How should it manifest in their emotions and

567
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: how they react to things and what their philosophical outlook is.

568
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: And I feel like Danuve contains a lot of that

569
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 3: mystery in her performance. There is something that feels unreal

570
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: and a little beyond human about her, and a lot

571
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: of times it's because she is difficult to read in

572
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: situations where otherwise an actor might be more inclined to

573
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: portray something very clear and overt.

574
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: Does that make sense, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. You know,

575
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: there are these scenes I think, in particular about some

576
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: of the scenes where David Bowie's character John is like

577
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: trying to discuss not only his his aging, his illness,

578
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: if you will, with her, but also like the ramifications

579
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: of it, and you don't get the sense that she's

580
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: you know, unfeeling to it. But also she doesn't fully

581
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: engage with him on it either. She's in walking this

582
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: line where it doesn't it doesn't come off entirely like

583
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: she's completely blowing him off or like, well, that's your problem, John,

584
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: you solve it. But she's she's also not fully embracing him.

585
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: She is to some degree distancing herself from his suffering,

586
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: but in a way that also feels more real and

587
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: more mortal, and is not like just this vamp queen

588
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: who's like, I am done with you. You know, you

589
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: have served your purpose or something like that.

590
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: I agree, Again, it's a different take on the vampire

591
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 3: character than I'm used to seeing.

592
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: We'll have more to say about this character as we

593
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: get into the plot a bit later. Now moving on

594
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: to David Bowie, who lived nineteen forty seven through twenty sixteen,

595
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: again playing John Blairlocke. So far in Weird House, we've

596
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: considered films where Bowie plays a space alien and the

597
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: changeland king of a Goblin realm, so it's only natural

598
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: that we now consider him as a vampire instead of

599
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: covering all the main notes of his career will couch

600
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: this instead in terms of where he was with his

601
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: music and acting career at the time. So we're only

602
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: six years out from The Man Who Fell to Earth,

603
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: and I believe the only other feature film he'd appeared

604
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: in in addition to The Man Who Fell to Earth

605
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: at this point was seventy eight, just a Jigglo. So

606
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: he really only had one what we would consider now

607
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: iconic film role in his filmography at this point, and

608
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: I think was far from established as the cult film

609
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: icon that he would later become and certainly would be

610
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: cemented in following his passing in twenty sixteen. Musically, this

611
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: film falls between Scary Monsters and super Creeps from nineteen

612
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 2: eighty and Let's Dance from eighty three, both massive critical

613
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 2: and commercial hits, and by the way, Let's Dance includes

614
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: a track he did with Giorgio Moroder for the nineteen

615
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: eighty two it Route a car of film Cat People,

616
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: which of course is a remake of the nineteen forties

617
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: Cat People, except with Malcolm McDowell turning into a cat.

618
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: I've seen the original Cat People years ago, and I

619
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: remember I quite liked it, So we may want to

620
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: come back to that on the show one day. But

621
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 3: the remake I have not seen, I'm to understand it

622
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: goes a little bit harder.

623
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know. I don't know if I

624
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: want to watch Malcolm McDowell turn into a cat every

625
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: time he orgasms, But I don't know. It's a product

626
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: of the time, I guess. As for Bowie in this film, though,

627
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: I think he's terrific. As well. As always, Bowie excels

628
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: at playing the outsider, and here he's kind of a

629
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: double outsider. He's a vampire, thus set apart from the

630
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: mortal world and a stranger to many aspects of but

631
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: he is also, as we come to realize, something of

632
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: a thrall uninitiated into all the intricacies of vampiric existence.

633
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: Much of John Blaylock's journey is one of struggling with

634
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: aging immortality, which Bowie handles with a kind of kind

635
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: of like a quiet anxiety that feels very palpable on

636
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: the screen.

637
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 3: Even though at some points I think we referred to

638
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 3: his performance in The Man Who Fell to Earth as

639
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 3: kind of quailudic he he also did have outbursts in

640
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 3: The Man Who Filled to earth. Like there were moments

641
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 3: where his performance got quite big, kind of like the

642
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 3: pressure came up and blew the top off and he screams,

643
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: get out of my mind, or when he like smacks

644
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 3: the tray of cookies in the air. I recall less

645
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 3: of anything like that in here. This is a much tighter,

646
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 3: more subdued, controlled performance throughout, despite the fact that we

647
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 3: can see his character is suffering immensely. John Blaylock is

648
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 3: a character who, you know, he weathers his suffering with

649
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: a kind of with a kind of quiet, melancholy and

650
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: indignant resentment. Like there there are parts where you can

651
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 3: see his ego is wounded, but it but it never

652
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 3: turns into a big reaction. Instead, he just kind of

653
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 3: he subsumes it. Yeah.

654
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's a scene in the picture where he's

655
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: he's significantly aged and this this this youth that's been

656
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: coming to the apartment for you know, like music lessons

657
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: and and and so forth thinks that he is the

658
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: father of John, and she's like, oh, you know, I

659
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: thought that because you have the same eyes. And yeah.

660
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: His response is so haunting. He's like he's like he's

661
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: says something the effective well that's that's that's interesting. I've

662
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: known him for so long and I never realized that,

663
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. The little moments like that

664
00:37:52,680 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: are just so well executed, all right. And then we

665
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 2: also have Susan Sarandon playing Sarah Roberts, as we mentioned earlier.

666
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: Born nineteen forty six, she's the first of three Rocky

667
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: Horror Picture Show connections in this film. Susan Sarandon's career

668
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 2: entails a great deal of mainstream dramatic success, obviously, but

669
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: for many of us, I think she's always going to

670
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: be a legend for her performances. Janet Weiss a heroin

671
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventy five film Rocky hor Picture Show.

672
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: Her screen and TV credits go back to nineteen seventy

673
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: and include such titles as seventy four as The Satan Murders,

674
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: eighty seven's The Witches of Eastwick, ninety one's Film and Louise,

675
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: ninety five's dead Man Walking, and twenty twelve's Cloud Atlas.

676
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: One time Oscar winner for dead Man Walking and five

677
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: time nominee, including a nomination for Film and Louise. And

678
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: you know, I also have nothing but great things to

679
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 2: say about Sarandon. In this picture, she's sporting a great

680
00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 2: androgynous look with short red hair. She is essentially most

681
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 2: of the film our protagonists. I guess you could argue

682
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: a gerontologist whose obsession for her works and transforms into

683
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: an obsession for the mysterious Miriam Blaylock. And while our

684
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: bisexual vampire duo here more stated with Miriam and implied

685
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: with John, are maybe a bit more cliche in their

686
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: depiction of bisexuality, you know, their indiscriminate supernatural beings the

687
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: vampires here, I do feel like Sarah is presented in

688
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: a especially for the time like refreshingly believable light. So

689
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: her attraction to Miriam, despite her character having a boyfriend,

690
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: is not presented as something that is in and of

691
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: itself alarming or something that would otherwise be inconceivable for

692
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: this character, you know, without the supernatural intrigue. So I

693
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: applaud that in this film for sure.

694
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: Oh, that seems to me to be just kind of

695
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 3: an understood part of her character, Like they don't really

696
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 3: discuss it explicitly, but like, for example, her her kind

697
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: of jerk boyfriend is suspicious of her when he learns

698
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,720
Speaker 3: that she spent the whole afternoon with this mysterious, beautiful woman.

699
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And the fact that it is understood without

700
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: being like really called out in a way where like

701
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 2: there's no scene where she explains it to him or anything.

702
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: You know. Again, I think that's quite refreshing.

703
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 3: I think Susan Sarandon's performance here is great, especially in

704
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 3: the way that in the way that it changes over

705
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: the course of the film, because when we first get

706
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 3: to know her, she is in work mode. She is

707
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: fully a professional, and all we're seeing is her interaction

708
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: with the research that she does, like her engaging with

709
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 3: the topics of her work as a professional, and even

710
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 3: when she first meets John Blaylock played by Bowie, it's

711
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 3: in that context. It's like a work thing. And then

712
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 3: there is the strangest and most surprising shift, as like

713
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: she is brought into the vampire characters' lives, that her

714
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 3: role turns into an emotional and erotic one, and that

715
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 3: she instead we instead learn about what she wants and

716
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 3: what she feels, and her desires and her suffering, which

717
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 3: was not really part of the character at all when

718
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: we first met her, except insofar as like her desires

719
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 3: and suffering related to her struggles with her research. That's

720
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: a weird kind of arc to pull off within a story,

721
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: and I think a surendum handles it so well.

722
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lesser film and a lesser performance, it would

723
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 2: have been the character taking her glasses off, you know

724
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Yeah, where it's just a complete

725
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: shift and you just kind of roll with it because

726
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 2: that's just how movies do it. But her performance brings

727
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: those two sides together and make them both believable parts

728
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: of the sane human character. Now we mentioned the jerk boyfriend.

729
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: The jerk boyfriend is Tom have Her played by Cliff

730
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: DeYoung born nineteen forty five, a sixties rock star. The

731
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: group was Clear Light. I'm not familiar with him Turn

732
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 2: Broadway actor. He was in Hair Turn film and TV actor,

733
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: and he absolutely played Brad Major's and Farley flavors in

734
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one Shock Treatment, Richard O'Brien's follow up to

735
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: Rocky Horr. So in this de Young would be was

736
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: taking over the role from Barry Bostwick, who played Brad

737
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: in the original Rocky r Picture Show. Clifty Young's other

738
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: credits include nineteen eighty nine's Glory, nineteen ninety two's Doctor

739
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: Giggles and nineteen ninety six is The Craft.

740
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: Don't forget also that he was in the nineteen eighties

741
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 3: or maybe early nineties film called Pulse, which is an

742
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 3: all appliances attack film. Like an evil I don't know,

743
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: alien virus or something gets into the power lines and

744
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 3: it makes the toasters go crazy and try to kill people.

745
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: Oh Man, maximum overdrive. Yeah, all right, we mentioned the youth.

746
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 2: This is the character Alice Alice Cavender played by Beth

747
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: Ellers nineteen sixty eight, a child slash youth actor at

748
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: the time, but she'd go on to a long and

749
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 2: award winning career on the soap Opera's Guiding Light and

750
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: All My Children.

751
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 3: Very tragic, innocent character. When you first meet her, you're

752
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: just like, oh no, I think she's gonna get her

753
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 3: blood drank.

754
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: And yeah, now when vampires start drinking folks blood, you know,

755
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: occasionally the law starts sniffing around. In this film. That

756
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: character is Lieutenant Ali Greza played by Dan Hidea for

757
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: nineteen forty. We reference him all the time. I feel like,

758
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 2: but this is actually our first Dan Hidea film.

759
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: I was shocked how cute Dan Hidea is in this movie.

760
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: I think of him as, oh, you know, a perennially crusty, mean, gristly,

761
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 3: cantankerous old dude, or like the villain in Commando. But

762
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: either way, a kind of perpetually older seeming character actor

763
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 3: who just has a different energy than the Dan Todaea

764
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 3: we get in this film. I think the major difference

765
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 3: being this is one of the only times I've ever

766
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 3: seen him with his hair grown out this long, and

767
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: he looks positively scruffy as a police detective, which is

768
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 3: against type anyway. So I don't know what's going on,

769
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: but strange different turn for Dan. Yeah.

770
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

771
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with Danaday, a memorable character actor

772
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 2: with a real talent for playing often sleazy characters, villains

773
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: and so forth. Be it the vengeful husband in nineteen

774
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: eighty four's Blood Simple from the Cohen Brothers, or Richard

775
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 2: Nixon in nineteen ninety nine's Dick. He's been active on

776
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 2: screen and TV since the mid seventies, and let's see,

777
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: at this point in his career, he had just appeared

778
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 2: in Alan Rudolph's cattle mutilation thriller in Dangered Species.

779
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: Now this just came up recently. That's different than the

780
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 3: cattle mutilation movie that we did with Martin Landau.

781
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, different film. This one is more of a

782
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: conspiracy thriller and it's quite good. So I recommend it

783
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: if if you need to have a viewing party back

784
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 2: to back cattle mutilation films, you know, watch those two.

785
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: Also, though dan Headea's character, correct me if I'm wrong,

786
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: But I don't think the police make any progress one, no.

787
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: Progress at all. He's completely ineffective. He doesn't even get killed.

788
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: Like when he showed up, I was like, oh, he's

789
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: getting the psycho treatment. This guy's going down the stairs.

790
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 2: But no, there's just like nothing comes to the investigation.

791
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 2: And then he comes up, comes back at the end

792
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: of the picture and just kind of pokes around a

793
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: little bit and figures out nothing.

794
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 3: Why would they make him cute like this if Catherine

795
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 3: Danube's not gonna drink his blood.

796
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Maybe they had to drop a subplot.

797
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, all right, I said there were three

798
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 2: rocky horror reference points in this picture. Well, the third

799
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: is the actor Rufus Collins, who lived nineteen thirty five

800
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 2: through nineteen ninety six. He plays the character Charlie humphreyes.

801
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: He's one of the other research scientists that Sarah is

802
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: working with.

803
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so with Susan Sarandon, Clifty Young and Rufus Collins

804
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: together are the three gerontologists who were working in this

805
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 3: lab brutally rotting monkeys alive in order to discover the

806
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 3: secret of aging.

807
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a stop motion effect. By the way, when

808
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 2: we see that monkey rot it's pretty pretty nice. But yeah,

809
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: Rufus Collins New York actor who started out in a

810
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 2: living theater, which is an experimental acting troop of the day.

811
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 2: He worked in the UK as well, which maybe why

812
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: he's in this film because most of it was filmed

813
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 2: in London. But he has some wild credits, including Andy

814
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: Warhol's Batman Dracula from sixty four. I'm not sure what

815
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: that entailed. I've seen it referenced almost as like a

816
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 2: lost film, so some sort of experimental Warhol project. But

817
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 2: he's in both The Rocky Horror Picture Show and Shock Treatment,

818
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: playing an uncredited, uncredited Transylvanian. In the former, if you

819
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: look in the background, there's like at least one black

820
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: Transylvanian with like really cool hair and sunglasses. That's Rufus Collins. Yeah,

821
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: and then he plays a member of the camera crew

822
00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: in the latter picture.

823
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 3: He wears like neon sunglasses indoors in this movie. Lots

824
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 3: of characters wear sunglasses indoors in the Hunger, but he

825
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 3: is one of them, and his sunglasses are cooler looking

826
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 3: than most.

827
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a whole sit in. My wife and I

828
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: were coming on this. There's a scene later on where

829
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: I believe a Jigglow is brought back by Miriam purely

830
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: for the purpose or mostly for the purposes of blood.

831
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: And he's wearing sunglasses, as is she. She's a vampire,

832
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: so we're like, okay, she can wear sunglasses at night,

833
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: but this dude's wearing sunglasses at night anyway. And the

834
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: apartment is so dark. Is anyone seeing anything? But yeah,

835
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: everybody's wearing sunglasses. Everyone's smoking like a chimney, all right.

836
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: And finally, it's worth noting that we have little more

837
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 2: than a cameo here, very bit part. But Willem Dafoe

838
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: pops up playing second phone booth youth and he was

839
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: like he was twenty seven or twenty eight at the time,

840
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: and it is this is the youngest I've seen Defoe

841
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 2: in a motion picture. This was only like his fourth

842
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: screen or TV appearance. Dude, he is smooth, Yeah, like

843
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: he you know, you think of Dafoe or you know,

844
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 2: or I think of William Dafoe. I think of like

845
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: that rugged face, you know, you know, a very very

846
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: handsome face, but very rugged. The lines are important to

847
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: the overall work, and it's almost a little jarring to

848
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: see him this young. He doesn't have much to do here.

849
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: He doesn't drink blood nor get his blood drink, but

850
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 2: this would This still qualifies as the first of five

851
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: Willem Dafoe vampire films that I know of, alongside two

852
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: thousand and one Shadow of a Vampire, twenty ten, Daybreakers,

853
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine circ To Freak the Vampire's Assistant,

854
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 2: and of course twenty twenty four is Nosferatu.

855
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 3: He doesn't play a vampire in this, but he looks

856
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 3: like a vampire in his regular human makeup. In Streets

857
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 3: of Fire.

858
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that would be that. And I guess

859
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: like eighty five's Roadhouse sixty six and To Live and

860
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: Die in La were really those are more of the

861
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 2: launching points of his career, so he was really under

862
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 2: the radar at this point.

863
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 3: Have you never seen Streets of Fire and you want

864
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 3: to have a good time, Just look up Willem Defoe

865
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 3: screaming streets of Fire. That's that's a good face.

866
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 2: All right, Really, I'll try and speak this along. I

867
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: realized we're taking a while on the connections here, but

868
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: we mentioned Dick Smith. Make up illusions is what he's

869
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: credited with here. Lived twenty two through twenty fourteen. You know,

870
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: a host of talented makeup artists were involved in bringing

871
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 2: these characters to life, but Dick Smith played a key

872
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 2: role in David Bowie's on screen aging effects. We previously

873
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 2: discussed Smith in our episode on Scanners, which features a

874
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: number of amazing body horror effects, but he was also

875
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 2: legendary for his aging makeup effects, most famously that of

876
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,959
Speaker 2: f Murray Abraham's Saliari in eighty four Zama Dais, which

877
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: earned him an Academy Award. His other credits include seventy

878
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 2: three's The Exorcist in nineteen eighties Altered States.

879
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 3: Oh does he do the just the de I wonder

880
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 3: if The Exorcist was just demon makeup or if he

881
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 3: also was making Father Maren look older.

882
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm not entirely sure, but you know he was,

883
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: you know, clearly he was skilled beyond mere aging effects,

884
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: but he became well known for it. And to your

885
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: point earlier about Prometheus, yeah, I feel like there are

886
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,720
Speaker 2: plenty of examples of movies that probably had more money

887
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: in behind them than films that utilized Dick Smith that

888
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 2: ended up being less convincing in their aging makeup. He

889
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 2: had a true gift for this sort of thing. Tony

890
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 2: Scott mentions in the commentary track that that Smith was

891
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: disappointed that the lighting wasn't more intense in some of

892
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: these scenes where David Bowie is aged and you know,

893
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: and you know, Tony's you know, basically saying, well, you know,

894
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 2: that's part of it. You also, it's not just the makeup.

895
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 2: You got to have the lighting, and you know, it

896
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: makes it more effective if things are not maybe completely

897
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: in focus or completely lit. But it's kind of telling

898
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 2: like that's how strongly Dick Smith believed in his makeup effects.

899
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 4: Here.

900
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 2: It's like, shine the lights on him. They can go

901
00:50:58,960 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: out in the sun.

902
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 3: Oh, he's good. I understand why you had the confidence.

903
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, costume, we don't always mention costuming, but Molina Canna

904
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: Narrow was the costume and key to the costuming here.

905
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 2: Born nineteen forty six, another legendary behind the scenes figure

906
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 2: and thirty three time Oscar winner. Where do you even

907
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 2: keep all those trophies? I'm not sure? But there's this

908
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 2: one story, and this is one that that Tony shares

909
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: on the commentary track. She's famously fled the set of

910
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: the film one day and they were like, where is she?

911
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: Where'd she go? Nobody knew. Turns out she flew from

912
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 2: London to Rome just to get the right cloth for

913
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: like a pocket square on David Bowie's costume. She was like,

914
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: there's nothing here in London, I have to go to

915
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: Rome to get it. So she just just flew in

916
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: her own dime and came back with it.

917
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 3: Wow.

918
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: She's worked with such directors as Stanley Kubrick, really Scott Francis,

919
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: Ford Coppola and Wes Anderson, some of them you know

920
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 2: multiple times. We're talking such costume rich films as seventy

921
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 2: one's o' clockwork, Orange, nineteen nineties Dick Tracy and nineteen

922
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 2: ninety nine's Titus.

923
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 3: Those are all eye popping films. Yeah.

924
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: The director of photography was Stephen Goldblatt born nineteen forty five,

925
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: South African born cinematographer who worked on such films as

926
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one's Outland, eighty five's Young Sherlock Holmes, and

927
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven's Batman Forever, for which he was nominated

928
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 2: for an Oscar.

929
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 3: That was the one. Yeah, it's boy Ling acid.

930
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna mention the editor. We don't always mention the editor,

931
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 2: but the editing in this film, I feel like, is

932
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: something else. There's some very alarming editing choices at times.

933
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 2: Pamela Power born nineteen forty two. She worked with Ridley

934
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 2: Scott multiple times on seventy seven's The Duellist, his Apple

935
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 2: Mac commercial from eighty four, eighty five's Legend, and ninety

936
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: seven's gij Okay. Now we get to the music, and

937
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: there are several people to mention on the musical note here,

938
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 2: so much like the editing, the music is pretty wild.

939
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: We have a mixture of needle drop classical tracks, experimental

940
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: electronic sounds, and then a riveting opening performance by Boohause.

941
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: Howard Blake born in nineteen thirty eight was the musical

942
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: director on the film. He also served in this role

943
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 2: on nineteen eighty's Flash Gordon, which we previously talked about.

944
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: Let's see that multiple classical tracks are used here. There's

945
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: also a score by Guiney Jaguera, who also did the

946
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: theme song for TVs. The Powers of Matthew Starr, and

947
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,959
Speaker 2: Michael Rubini, who also worked on Matthew Starr but also

948
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: went on to score the likes of nineteen eighty four

949
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 2: is What Waits Below, nineteen eighty six is man Hunter,

950
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 2: and ninety two's Nemesis.

951
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 3: Oh, it's been a while since I've seen it, but

952
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 3: I remember Man Hunter having intriguing music.

953
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: That's the stylish picture. Yeah, all right. And then finally,

954
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 2: David Lawson or Dave Lawson is credited with performer, Additional

955
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 2: Electronic Music and Effects, Composer, Additional Electronic music and Effects

956
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,760
Speaker 2: uncredited on that latter pump point. But this guy's pretty

957
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: interesting as well. There are a number of weird supernatural

958
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: synth flourishes in the film, and when I heard them,

959
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 2: I was like, this sounds like Jim Henson's Labyrinth. You

960
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 2: know these sort of there's sort of like cascading synth

961
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: waterfalls of supernatural intrigue, and they happen a lot in

962
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: this picture, and they happen periodically in Labyrinth, and sure enough,

963
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 2: I mean the same guy was involved in both of

964
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 2: these pictures.

965
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 3: Oh wow.

966
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's see he did supply. He supplied synthesized

967
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 2: electronic sounds for The Dark Crystal in eighty two and

968
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: also contributed to the Labyrinth score. Otherwise, he has a

969
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 2: handful of film credits on the major databases, though sometimes

970
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 2: he's not credited on the film, but if you look

971
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: up the score album elsewhere, you can find that he's credited.

972
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: Let's see, he worked on ninety four as Frankenstein. He

973
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 2: worked with Trevor Jones on such films as Angel Heart

974
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: in eighty seven Mississippi Burning in eighty eight. So he's

975
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,720
Speaker 2: a British keyboardist who was a member of the UK

976
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: progressive rock band green Slade. I was unfamiliar with Greenslade,

977
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: but I pulled them up as I was working on

978
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: notes here and I like what they're laying down. It's

979
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 2: kind of a neat prog rock sound with some synth

980
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 2: in there. You know, maybe feels a little old fashioned,

981
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 2: but in a good way, you know. Okay, so he's

982
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: something of a synth legend. He played on the soundtrack

983
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: for seventy six. Is the man who fell to Earth

984
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 2: and worked with the likes of Jimmy Page and Kate Bush.

985
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: Said to own one of the largest synth systems in Europe.

986
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 3: The largest synth systems. What does that mean, like the

987
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 3: physically largest.

988
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 2: I guess it's kind of like, I think, maybe a

989
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: collection of synths, but they're active and all like hooked together.

990
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: I don't know. I found some There's a Psychedelic Baby

991
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 2: magazine has an interview with him from twenty twenty three.

992
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 2: It includes a number of photographs of him back in

993
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 2: the day and in present times. And yeah, the ones

994
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: from the seventies are pretty great because here's this like

995
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: long hair dude, you know, of course, surrounded by synths

996
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: and keyboards and all looks like he was quite the

997
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 2: synth wizard of the day.

998
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 3: I was trying to see if I could recognize any

999
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 3: brands to know what his style was. But I do

1000
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 3: not know what these are.

1001
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, even when I hear guys like this

1002
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 2: talk about their gear, I'm just not a gearhead for

1003
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 2: this sort of thing. So all the names of these

1004
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,439
Speaker 2: various devices and innovations just go completely over my head.

1005
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 2: But I love the results. So you definitely hear his

1006
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 2: influence on the sounds of the Hunger. But again it's

1007
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 2: kind of all over the place. You have electronic, you

1008
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 2: have classical, and also some I guess more traditional score

1009
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 2: hidden in there as well, in addition to contemporary tracks

1010
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 2: like the Bauhause track that opens up the picture.

1011
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 3: Okay, well, is it time to talk a bit about

1012
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 3: the plot?

1013
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I let's jump in.

1014
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 3: So this is not one of those movies where we're

1015
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 3: going to do a kind of chronological scene by scene

1016
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 3: talk through the plot like we often do. Sometimes it

1017
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 3: just doesn't feel right with what the movie is. I

1018
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 3: think this is one of those cases. I've already described

1019
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 3: some of the plot, but here I think maybe we

1020
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 3: can do a kind of general overview and then talk

1021
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 3: about some specific scenes and elements and themes. So at

1022
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,959
Speaker 3: the beginning of the story, John and Miriam Blaylock. That's

1023
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 3: David Bowie and Catherine Deneuve. They live in a house

1024
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 3: in New York City, and they have seemingly been together

1025
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 3: for hundreds of years. Miriam is some kind of ancient

1026
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 3: being we see brief flashbacks of her in what appeared

1027
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 3: to be palaces and maybe ancient Greece and certainly ancient Egypt.

1028
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 3: There are these different kind of costumes. I think we

1029
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 3: see some kind of Egyptian priesthood paraphernalia. I don't know

1030
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 3: if you had any particular observations about the ancient flashbacks,

1031
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 3: but I couldn't detect a lot of plot from them.

1032
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 3: They were not full of information. They were more full

1033
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 3: of vibe.

1034
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, these are not flashbacks in the Highlander sense where

1035
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 2: it's like, all right, we're going back now, and here's

1036
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 2: a definite time stamp of where we're going and when

1037
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 2: we're going to. It's presented very surrealistically and jarringly. There

1038
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: are multiple times like this in the picture where you're like,

1039
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,479
Speaker 2: what's happening? Is this is the past? Yes, it must

1040
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 2: be the past, and then you kind of piece it

1041
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 2: together later. But yeah, Greco Egyptian is about the most

1042
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: I could make out of it.

1043
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: Though you could be forgiven for being confused when we

1044
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: cut to these palaces of the past, because in the opening,

1045
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 3: John and Miriam live together in this beautiful house in

1046
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 3: New York City that is very old world like they

1047
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 3: are apparently fabulously wealthy, and their home is full of

1048
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 3: magnificent art. It's full of marble statues that they say

1049
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 3: are thousands of years old, and it's got these big,

1050
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 3: spacious Baroque rooms and musical instruments and stuff. So it

1051
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 3: seems like the kind of place you might suddenly go

1052
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 3: around a corner and be in a room that looks

1053
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 3: like it is a palace in ancient Egypt.

1054
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 2: When I am in New York and I get to

1055
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,439
Speaker 2: walk around New York and I see a home where

1056
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 2: people live, I just assume these are sorts of people

1057
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: that live there, and this must be ancient vampires with

1058
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 2: you know, generational wealth and supernatural blood.

1059
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 3: So the flashbacks they showed that, but they also show

1060
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 3: us Miriam and John falling in love when John was immortal,

1061
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 3: And I believe this is supposed to be somewhere in

1062
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 3: Europe in the seventeenth century. I think I read somewhere

1063
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 3: it said France, but I don't recall the movie saying France.

1064
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 2: It feels very French.

1065
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 3: So they are falling in love in powdered Wigland, and

1066
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 3: she promises him eternal life and eternal love, and they

1067
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 3: drink one another's blood to turn John into her youthful

1068
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 3: vampire lover for ages to come. And there's something about

1069
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 3: this scene where you know they promise, the promise is forever,

1070
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 3: and this promise of forever is repeated later in the story,

1071
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 3: like I think I'm remembering this right. There are scenes

1072
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 3: of them early the film, in their nineteen eighties New

1073
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 3: York phase where they're still trading these reassurances, Like there's

1074
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 3: one part where I think they're in the shower and

1075
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 3: John just asks forever and she says forever. Now, maybe

1076
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 3: here we should do an aside on the opening sequence,

1077
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 3: because that gives us a flavor of part of what

1078
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 3: they do in their nineteen eighties New York life. Before

1079
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 3: seeing this movie, I really did not know what it

1080
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 3: was going to be like, but I guess I assumed

1081
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 3: that the whole thing was going to be a lot

1082
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 3: more like the first ten minutes. This was not the case,

1083
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 3: But the opening sequence rocks strictly in terms of what happens.

1084
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 3: It's just our two original vampires, Miriam and John. They

1085
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 3: go to a goth club, they pick up a couple

1086
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 3: of dates. They bring them back home, and they drink

1087
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 3: their blood. But the sequence is so fun everybody. So

1088
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 3: there's the goth clothing, all this dark leather, people wearing

1089
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 3: sunglasses inside in the dark, and Bauhaus performing apparently inside

1090
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 3: some kind of animal cage.

1091
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you will observe many things in this film through slits, slats, blinds, cages,

1092
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 2: and of course translucent black capes and drapes and veils.

1093
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 2: And again, I also, I hope you're not trying to

1094
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 2: quit smoking while watching this film, because there's a lot

1095
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 2: of cigarette smoking. Yes, But yeah, that's Bowhouse lead singer

1096
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: Peter Murphy performing in the goth club himself looking like

1097
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 2: some sort of an undead creature, and they're performing their

1098
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: biggest tip, Bela Lugosi's Dead. I do wish they'd included

1099
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 2: all nine minutes and thirty four seconds of the track,

1100
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 2: because it's a tremendous track. I got to see Bowhouse

1101
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: perform at Coachella back in two thousand and five, and

1102
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: they opened with Peter Murphy performing Bela Lagosi's Dead whilst

1103
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 2: suspended upside down on stage. It was pretty great. So here, yeah,

1104
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 2: we get these scenes of the club, Peter Murphy, our

1105
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 2: vampire couple strolling in, but then we get also we

1106
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: can also get some like crazy cuts. This is where

1107
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 2: we first st start getting hit with like crazy cuts

1108
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 2: to them like driving and stuff later on, and then

1109
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: we keep cutting back to Peter Murphy's performance during the

1110
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: vampire blood drinking scene that shortly follows.

1111
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 3: That's right, So Miriam and John they both pick up someone,

1112
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 3: they bring them back together to their home, and they

1113
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 3: start like they're going to have sex, but instead they

1114
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 3: end up, of course, cutting them and drinking their blood.

1115
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 3: We'll talk more about the mechanics of the blood drinking

1116
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 3: in a moment, but we do see here something that

1117
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 3: is I think. While a lot of this movie is

1118
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 3: different than other vampire movies and very fresh and unusual,

1119
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 3: a common convention you see in vampire films that's also

1120
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 3: present here is that some of the most erotically charged

1121
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 3: imagery is used in the lead up to blood drinking

1122
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 3: rather than to sex. This does imply a kind of

1123
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 3: blurring of the lines between like the vampire's carnal desires

1124
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 3: and appetite. It's like, to them, is the blood sexier

1125
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 3: than sex? And if so, how does this affect the

1126
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 3: way we should think about the vampire's love stories.

1127
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great point. Yeah, multiple points in

1128
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,440
Speaker 2: the film, including some very subtle moments, it's clear that

1129
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 2: the desire to feed is also the desire for sex. Yeah,

1130
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 2: and one, I don't know, I got the impression that

1131
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 2: maybe the one is not merely a stepping stone for

1132
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 2: the other, like it, Like, I didn't get as much

1133
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 2: the idea that it's like, oh, well, only they only

1134
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 2: do sex because they just want to do blood. Like

1135
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 2: the two seem inseparable.

1136
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 3: I guess you're right, Yeah, they are kind of the same.

1137
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a great scene later on where John is

1138
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 2: aging rather rapidly and he's in I guess it's so

1139
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: just a restroom, but it feels like a locker room,

1140
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 2: and there's like a shirtless man like splashing his face

1141
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 2: with water next to him, and he's like eyeing the

1142
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 2: guy's throat. And that too, is also a very like

1143
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: less overt, more subtle moment where there's a feeling of

1144
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 2: the desire both for flesh in the sexual sense and

1145
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 2: also blood in the vampiric sense.

1146
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 3: Now a note on the vampire mechanics here. The vampires

1147
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 3: in this movie do not, I believe, have fangs, or

1148
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 3: at least I don't recall ever seeing them. I don't

1149
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 3: know what the novel describes, but I don't think we

1150
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: see fangs in the movie, and that would make sense

1151
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 3: because instead they slice. The way they get the blood

1152
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 3: from their victims is they attack with a particular dedicated tool.

1153
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 3: They slice their victims' arteries with this little ank blade

1154
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 3: and then like they wear it around their neck like

1155
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 3: a crucifix, except it's an Egyptian style onc and then

1156
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 3: they cut the neck and then they drink the blood

1157
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 3: like you would from a water fountain.

1158
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I believe you're right. No fangs. I never

1159
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: saw any things. And their tool users and they're feeding.

1160
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 2: There's a really fun Key and Peel sketch from years

1161
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 2: back about or where they discuss how vampires make too

1162
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: much of a man when they feed like they bite

1163
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 2: and then there's just blood everywhere and they're not getting

1164
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 2: enough of the blood into their mouths. Well, this vision

1165
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 2: of vampiorism at least excuses all the gushing and mess

1166
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 2: making because they don't have like dedicated like feeding mouth

1167
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 2: parts so much. They have to they have to stab,

1168
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 2: They have to allow for there to be a gush

1169
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:20,959
Speaker 2: and then feed on it as best they can.

1170
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 3: I feel like the movie also takes seriously the mess. Yeah,

1171
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: like you see them cleaning up afterwards.

1172
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, cleanup seems to be a big deal. And there's

1173
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 2: some hauntingly beautiful and very powerful scenes. I'm thinking, particularly

1174
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 2: after the first killing, we get the scene of the

1175
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 2: two bloody aunks landing in the sink during the wash up,

1176
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 2: and then of course we see the incineration of the

1177
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: corpses of the drained victims and they're like wrapped in

1178
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 2: black garbage bags, and then they're placing the incinerator in

1179
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 2: the plastic is like, you know, melting around. The bodies,

1180
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 2: all very well executed.

1181
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 3: The police do not seem concerned by the fact that

1182
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 3: John and Miriam have an incinerator in their basement.

1183
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 2: I guess it's like only murders in the building, Like

1184
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 2: all these buildings in New York have powerful incinerators that

1185
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 2: just completely adamized bodies. So I guess they're just used

1186
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: to it.

1187
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 3: So I wanted to pause for a moment here and

1188
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 3: explore the question of what other powers or limitations do

1189
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 3: the vampires have within the lore of the film. So

1190
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 3: we've established that they have arrested, aging or unnaturally prolonged youth,

1191
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 3: perhaps eternal youth in Miriam's case. Unclear. I was wondering,

1192
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 3: are they supposed to be invulnerable or resistant to regular injuries?

1193
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 3: I really don't think so. In fact, several things happen

1194
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 3: in the movie that made it seem like the vampires

1195
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 3: can be harmed by standard physical forces. I get the

1196
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 3: impression that in this world, like you could really wound

1197
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 3: a vampire. A human, regular mortal could really wound a

1198
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 3: vampire as easily as they could wound another human. But

1199
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 3: maybe I'm forgetting something to the contrary.

1200
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's right.

1201
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, the vampires do need to drink blood. In fact,

1202
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 3: they have this insatiable craving, and that is really framed

1203
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 3: more I guess this is actually quite common, but it's

1204
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 3: framed more as a weakness than a power. You know.

1205
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 3: It's like they need, they need to say this hunger,

1206
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 3: and it causes them to do things that are in

1207
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 3: some cases destructive to their own well being.

1208
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 2: Right, right.

1209
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 3: Vampires in the movies often have a kind of super strength.

1210
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 3: I think Miriam does have super strength because at one

1211
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 3: point we see her throw Sarah clear across the room.

1212
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 3: Does John have in human strength. I don't recall ever

1213
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 3: seeing in any evidence of that.

1214
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 2: If he does, he never employs it. So it's if

1215
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 2: he has that supernatural strength, using it is not really

1216
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 2: a part of his character. But I guess I'm inclined

1217
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 2: to think that maybe he doesn't have it, like maybe

1218
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 2: that's one of the limitations of him being the vampire spawned,

1219
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 2: the vampire thrawl, or a half vampiric being, however you

1220
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 2: want to describe it.

1221
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, there's no problem with them going out in sunlight.

1222
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 3: They venture out in the daytime throughout the film, and

1223
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 3: they don't have to sleep in coffins or in their

1224
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 3: native soil. They sleep in a big kind of you know,

1225
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 3: a wind blown music video bed.

1226
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I mean I get the impression they sleep

1227
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 2: in a lot, but it's not like they can't go

1228
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 2: out in the sun.

1229
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:33,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't recall any apparent influence of religious imagery

1230
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 3: or material.

1231
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 2: I think there's one. I think one of the phone

1232
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 2: booth guys, not Willem Dafoe, but the other guy maybe

1233
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,679
Speaker 2: has a cross on, But it's ambiguous if it actually

1234
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 2: has any effect on the vampirically affected character who views it.

1235
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so maybe Miriam has super strength, and unclear if

1236
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 3: John does. But apart from that, really, the only great

1237
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 3: kind of power we see of the vampire, I think

1238
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 3: is just the fact that they live eternally or so

1239
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,839
Speaker 3: called eternally, that they do not age, they can maintain

1240
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 3: youth for a long time. Would you say that there's

1241
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 3: any other apparent power on display?

1242
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 2: I think that's mostly it now. Miriam in particular is

1243
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 2: quite seductive and charismatic. People are drawn to her, but

1244
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: I never thought that this was presented in a like

1245
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 2: definite Dracula's gaze sort of way, like she to Yeah,

1246
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 2: to an extent, you could say she casts a spell

1247
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 2: on Sarah, but I don't think in the literal sense,

1248
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 2: not in a way that overrides Sarah's agency in the seduction.

1249
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, Sarah doesn't seem like hypnotized. She seems more,

1250
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 3: I don't know, encouraged to give in to something that

1251
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 3: she does want.

1252
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be more like being starstruck, except you know,

1253
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 2: it's like the vampiric version of that, I guess.

1254
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. So anyway, worth noting that the vision of va

1255
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 3: emperorsm in this film is quite mechanically limited, Compared to

1256
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 3: most vampire lore, many of the standard horror tropes do

1257
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 3: not apply.

1258
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no garlic in this picture, No steaks, nothing like that.

1259
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 3: There is steak in the picture.

1260
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 2: There's a steak. Yeah, there's rare steak.

1261
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 3: Of course, a quite significant steak scene where after Susan

1262
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 3: Sarandon has been turned, she's like at a restaurant trying

1263
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,759
Speaker 3: to eat some steak and just like yuck, only want blood.

1264
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And he's like, I can't believe you spent

1265
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 2: three and a half hours with that woman. You need

1266
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 2: to go to a doctor.

1267
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1268
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: I think you have bisexual ititis or something. I don't know.

1269
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 3: Anyway, So to come back to our sort of zoomed

1270
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 3: out overview of the plot. In the opening again, John

1271
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 3: and Miriam they're living this apparently fabulous life. They live

1272
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 3: this big, beautiful house in New York. When they're not

1273
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 3: hunting for victims at goth clubs, they appear to spend

1274
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 3: a lot of their time on artistic leisure. They are

1275
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 3: both musicians. I think Miriam plays the piano and John

1276
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 3: play the cello, and they like to play music with

1277
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 3: a talented young teenage violinist from the house across the

1278
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 3: street named Alice. Does she take music lessons from them?

1279
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 2: I was unclear on that if if she just jams

1280
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 2: with them or she takes lessons at any rate, it's

1281
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 2: you know, it's probably fine. This is probably totally okay

1282
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 2: that she's coming over here and hanging out with these

1283
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:23,560
Speaker 2: two ancient vampires.

1284
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, not going anywhere good. Anything else to say about

1285
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 3: their apparently somewhat happy life in the beginning, I.

1286
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 2: Mean, not much other than it does seem like they

1287
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 2: are happy content. It doesn't seem like they particularly have

1288
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: any vampire hunters breathing down their necks or anything. And

1289
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 2: I guess they've been going at it for a long time,

1290
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: and they're staying on top of the fashions. Like sometimes,

1291
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many ways to treat longevity and

1292
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 2: vampires in fiction, and sometimes vampires are depicted as like

1293
01:11:53,960 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 2: totally out of keeping with modern fads and so forth,

1294
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 2: and certainly technology, and also maybe being rather bored, like

1295
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 2: they just run out of passion. These two seem to

1296
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:09,640
Speaker 2: still have a lot of passion for what's popular in

1297
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 2: the world, changing musical genres and so forth, And you know,

1298
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 2: they're staying active. They're still killing people and drinking their

1299
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 2: blood and then burning them in the.

1300
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 3: Basement, and the way in which their hip seems to

1301
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 3: be I don't know, basically just keeping pace with culture.

1302
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 3: You don't get like that Saltation view where or it's

1303
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 3: like in Francis Ford Coppolas Dracula, where Gary oldman. You know,

1304
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 3: he's got the big bun head and he's decrepit and

1305
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 3: old world and then suddenly all at once he's rejuvenated

1306
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 3: and hip and stylish. Anyway, the trouble of the plot

1307
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 3: starts when John notices that he is losing his hair

1308
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:53,719
Speaker 3: and he can't seem to sleep, and he notices several

1309
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:57,720
Speaker 3: things and realizes he is aging rapidly. Apparently years are

1310
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 3: falling off of his life every day. Now. One question

1311
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 3: here I was trying to remember is what is the

1312
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 3: level of openness between John and Miriam about this. I

1313
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 3: seem to remember they do talk about it as if

1314
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 3: he knew this might happen at some point, Like I

1315
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 3: remember he asks Miriam how long it took for another

1316
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 3: person to decay in this way? Presumably this was a

1317
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 3: previous lover of Miriam's, But I also don't get the

1318
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 3: impression that he knew this would happen before he was

1319
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 3: turned Did you take that all the same way?

1320
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it's this is one of the more thought

1321
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 2: provoking mysteries of the film, I think, because like logically,

1322
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 2: in the film, yeah, he seems to be aware that

1323
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 2: there were other lovers in the past, that they they

1324
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 2: went away, that they faded away one way or another,

1325
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 2: and that something like that could happen to him. On

1326
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:58,679
Speaker 2: the other hand, there is the whole reassurances of things

1327
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 2: being forever. And then of course this also ties into

1328
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 2: how I think, you know, we all, to varying degrees,

1329
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 2: deal with or don't deal with aging and mortality. Like

1330
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 2: we all know that we will grow old and that

1331
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 2: we will die. That that is like the biological trajectory,

1332
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 2: and that you know, very little can can occur to

1333
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 2: change that path. And yet I think we often carry

1334
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: on like John, not thinking about it, finding ways to

1335
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 2: avoid the reality of it. And then when it does

1336
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 2: begin to occur, it, you know, it comes as a shock,

1337
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:39,639
Speaker 2: but it's not a shock because we knew it all along,

1338
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 2: you know.

1339
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, though, I mean for John, there's this interesting dynamic

1340
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 3: because it's like he short sold his life. Essentially, he

1341
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 3: had all these many many years, unnaturally extended life and youth.

1342
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 3: He's been young and vigorous for so long, and now

1343
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:57,679
Speaker 3: it's all coming home. It's all coming home at once.

1344
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:01,720
Speaker 3: It's happening so fast. Yeah. So anyway, John is in

1345
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 3: this state and on TV he sees a report about

1346
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 3: the work of a gerontologist named doctor Sarah Roberts. This

1347
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 3: is the character played by Susan Sarandon. She's written a

1348
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 3: book about her work and she's performing experiments along with

1349
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 3: a couple of colleagues, Charlie Humphreys and Tom have her

1350
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 3: Tom again is Sarah's boyfriend. Together they are trying to

1351
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 3: understand the process of aging at the cellular level and

1352
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 3: possibly halt or reverse it, particularly to help children who

1353
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:36,560
Speaker 3: have diseases that cause accelerated aging and deterioration. And these characters,

1354
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 3: the scientist characters, are interesting because on one hand, we

1355
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 3: see what seems to me to be obvious care or

1356
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 3: a real desire to help people, especially children, like their

1357
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 3: motivations are represented as not impure, and yet they're also

1358
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 3: not lionized. The scientists are not treated as saints. They

1359
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 3: in some ways come off as quite brutal, like we

1360
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 3: see them performing these gory, horrifying experiments on monkeys where

1361
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 3: one of these experiments in a really great special effects

1362
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:12,879
Speaker 3: shop by the way, causes like a monkey to rapidly

1363
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 3: age and then turbo decompose in minutes, like when you

1364
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 3: drink from the Fall scale in the Last Crusade. Yeah,

1365
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 3: we also see them. We see just sort of human

1366
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 3: failings of these scientists, like when Sarah and John first meet,

1367
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,719
Speaker 3: Sarah is rude and dismissive to him, and she lies

1368
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:35,719
Speaker 3: to him. John comes asking for help, and then also

1369
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 3: Tom have her boyfriend, the other scientist. He comes off

1370
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 3: as a total jerk, though at the same time there

1371
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 3: are also indications that he genuinely cares for Sarah.

1372
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's put in a tough spot, I

1373
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 2: guess to some degree, and we're not maybe as privy

1374
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 2: as much to his side of things. But yeah, that

1375
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 2: scene where John is sort of cast aside by Sarah

1376
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:00,600
Speaker 2: and she's like, just wait wait for me in the

1377
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 2: waiting room and I'll get back you later, and she's

1378
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 2: then she tells the security guy it's like there's another

1379
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 2: weirdo here. Just leave him alone. He'll probably get bored

1380
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 2: and leave on his own. And then we the viewer

1381
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 2: watch as John literally grows like decades older in the

1382
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 2: waiting room, a scene that I think could otherwise come

1383
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 2: off as comedic, like because when you're explaining it's like,

1384
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 2: you literally watch him grow old in the waiting room.

1385
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:29,680
Speaker 2: It sounds like a comedic bit, but it's it's executed

1386
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 2: in a way that that does not feel funny. And

1387
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,520
Speaker 2: in the effect, the makeup effects are, of course, so convincing.

1388
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 2: We don't see any kind of like transition effect. It's

1389
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 2: all you know, checking back in with him and seeing

1390
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 2: that he's visibly aged, and yeah, like he ends up

1391
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 2: leaving the waiting room a much older man.

1392
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then as he's leaving, Sarah sees him again

1393
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 3: and he and he recognizes her, knowing that like she

1394
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 3: totally blew him off and lied to him earlier, but

1395
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 3: she sees now that he has visibly rapidly aged since

1396
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 3: earlier that day. And at this point she tries to

1397
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:06,600
Speaker 3: apologize and she's like, oh, no, come with me. You know,

1398
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,800
Speaker 3: we'll bring you in for tests, we'll see what's going on.

1399
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,639
Speaker 3: But now John's pride is hurt and he refuses her help.

1400
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 3: And I think we kind of talked about that earlier.

1401
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 3: The way that John's personality is represented as kind of

1402
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 3: when he faces the you know, these extreme troubles, just

1403
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 3: kind of like taking it inside and pushing it underneath. Yeah.

1404
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like this was his last, his only attempt to

1405
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 2: like reach out for help, and it didn't turn out

1406
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 2: the way he hoped it would, and there's not going

1407
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:36,679
Speaker 2: to be a second chance for him.

1408
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then there's a section here where John is

1409
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 3: you can tell he's hungry, so he's trying to feed.

1410
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:47,799
Speaker 3: We see him have encountered. He's very he's very rapidly aging,

1411
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 3: turning old in the course of this single day. And

1412
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:53,639
Speaker 3: he like goes into a bathroom the scene you talked

1413
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 3: about where he sees the man I don't know, shaving

1414
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 3: or whatever in the sink and he's staring at him.

1415
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 3: I think he tries to attack a skater in a park.

1416
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 2: Oh it's a roller skater. Yeah, and like they set

1417
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 2: up this really cool scene where it's like, what's happening

1418
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:11,680
Speaker 2: where are we now? Another music video has started. This

1419
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 2: guy starts doing some cool skating and then here comes

1420
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,600
Speaker 2: John attempts to stab him and drink his blood, but

1421
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 2: then it doesn't fully pull it off. For some reason.

1422
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 3: So he comes home and then oh no, because he's

1423
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 3: so old. Now, when the neighbor girl Alice comes over

1424
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 3: to play music, John has to pretend to be someone

1425
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,679
Speaker 3: else because she won't recognize him. He looks so much older.

1426
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 3: And then even worse when she's in there, he talks

1427
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 3: her into playing some music for him, and we don't

1428
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:44,680
Speaker 3: see it. It happens off screen, but we know what.

1429
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,639
Speaker 3: He kills her and drinks her blood.

1430
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he gets more heartbreaking from there with John,

1431
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:56,920
Speaker 2: because he just gets progressively older. Miriam is walking this

1432
01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:01,719
Speaker 2: line between comforting him and keeping him at arm's length,

1433
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 2: and she's having to burn Alice's body in the basement.

1434
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 2: And then John comes down and he's he's so old.

1435
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 2: At this point he asks for one more kiss and

1436
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 2: then he asks if she will kill him, and you know,

1437
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:20,600
Speaker 2: and in this and like heartbreakingly, she tells him, like

1438
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't work like that. You like, you

1439
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 2: don't die, you don't get to die, and uh and

1440
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 2: and again it's maybe a little unclear to what extent

1441
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 2: he knew this was the case or remembered it was

1442
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 2: the case. I'm not sure, but yeah, it's quickly made

1443
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 2: obvious that that, yeah, he's not going to grow old

1444
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,720
Speaker 2: and die, He's just going to grow perpetually older, but

1445
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 2: have eternal life in a very non glamorous way.

1446
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 3: That's right. There is no death for a vampire. That's

1447
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 3: the twist. There is just aging and pain and decay,

1448
01:20:55,280 --> 01:21:00,439
Speaker 3: but actually no end. And then in a oh a

1449
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:03,720
Speaker 3: hair raising scene where she takes him up to the

1450
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 3: attic and she deposits his aging body inside a coffin

1451
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 3: next to this huge stack of other coffins that are

1452
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:19,560
Speaker 3: filled with Miriam's previous lovers, all of whom are reduced

1453
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 3: to husks inside the coffins, but are not gone. They

1454
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 3: are all still conscious inside. And she bids her other

1455
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 3: previous lovers to keep him company and to treat him

1456
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 3: with kindness.

1457
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very haunting. Yeah, thousands of years worth of

1458
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 2: lovers here, stored away in neat little stacks.

1459
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 3: So here the story switches. Miriam is left alone, and

1460
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 3: who should come to the house now but Sarah, Sarah,

1461
01:21:55,680 --> 01:22:00,160
Speaker 3: the researcher, the gerontologist. Her initial line of inquiry is

1462
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 3: where is John? She somehow got his address and she

1463
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 3: is trying to find him because obviously somebody who's aging

1464
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:11,839
Speaker 3: as rapidly as him would be of interest to her research.

1465
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:16,600
Speaker 3: Miriam initially tells tell Sarah that he went to Switzerland.

1466
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 3: I think so she thinks he's at a clinic there.

1467
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,680
Speaker 3: But she comes in and she begins to get to

1468
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 3: know Miriam. And this is where the story takes a

1469
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 3: really different kind of turn, because I think the way again,

1470
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 3: Miriam is often presented in a kind of ambiguous way.

1471
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,240
Speaker 3: We don't always know exactly what she's feeling. She's more

1472
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 3: hard to scrutinize than many of the human characters. But

1473
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 3: I suspect that the implication is that Miriam is now

1474
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 3: lonely because there was the idea, of course, she had John,

1475
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:55,520
Speaker 3: and she loved John, And there was also the implication

1476
01:22:56,680 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 3: that she and John discussed that maybe one day, when

1477
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 3: Alice was older, she would turn Alice into a vampire

1478
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 3: as well, and she would become her new companion, and

1479
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 3: she'd been thinking about this. But of course John killed

1480
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,920
Speaker 3: Alice and drank her blood. So now Miriam really doesn't

1481
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:16,639
Speaker 3: seem to have a friend in the world.

1482
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 2: But then, oh, here's Sarah, and Sarah has a lot

1483
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:23,600
Speaker 2: of things going for and there is there is an

1484
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:27,679
Speaker 2: opening in the significant other market here in Miriam's house, that's.

1485
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 3: Right now, somewhere in here, I think. Actually Sarah comes

1486
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 3: twice to visit. In between their two visits, I think,

1487
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:36,639
Speaker 3: or when the cops come to investigate, and this goes

1488
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 3: absolutely nowhere, absolutely nowhere. But Sarah does eventually come back

1489
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 3: to visit Miriam again. And here is where things really

1490
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:48,799
Speaker 3: take a turn. Upon the second visit, it's it becomes

1491
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 3: increasingly clear that Miriam and Sarah are interested in each other.

1492
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 3: They are, you know, Miriam is playing the piano and

1493
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,680
Speaker 3: they're talking about the what the music is. Miriam is

1494
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 3: explaining the piece of music, and Sarah keeps commenting that

1495
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 3: it sounds like a love song. Yeah.

1496
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 2: And on this second visit, Sarah also you know, shows

1497
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,880
Speaker 2: up wearing a sexy outfit and it's not long before

1498
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 2: that outfit gets what some Sherry spilled on it, and

1499
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:21,639
Speaker 2: you know, things things progress as you might expect. Much

1500
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 2: is said about the fact that she doesn't even like Sherry.

1501
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,719
Speaker 2: Of course that's the other part. But somehow it's different

1502
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 2: with Miriam and and so they imbibe.

1503
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 3: Now, I guess this leads to the scene that Roger

1504
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 3: Ebert liked. This is the love scene between Sarah and Miriam, which,

1505
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 3: as we talked about earlier, there is a kind of

1506
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:47,679
Speaker 3: mingling of the of the romantic desire and the desire

1507
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 3: for blood. And it's pretty clear what Miriam's aims are

1508
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 3: at this point. Miriam wants not only to drink Sarah's blood,

1509
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 3: but to give of her blood to Sarah as well,

1510
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 3: to turn her into a vampire. She wants companionship. Yeah,

1511
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 3: and so it's this weird dreamlike scene where ultimately I

1512
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 3: think in this scene they do drink of each other's blood.

1513
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 3: So there's like a wound in Sarah's arm where she's

1514
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 3: been pierced by the ONC, but she has also taken

1515
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:17,679
Speaker 3: of Miriam's blood.

1516
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again this is a very artful, stylish sequence.

1517
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:26,760
Speaker 2: It's certainly by by today's standards. There's nothing, you know,

1518
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 2: very explicit about it, though it is it is very

1519
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:34,880
Speaker 2: erotically charged. And yeah, and Susan's Randon in her comments

1520
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 2: on you know, says that she thinks it was probably

1521
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 2: ahead of its time, you know, for eighty three. But

1522
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:42,439
Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean, and to Ebert's point, it is

1523
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:43,799
Speaker 2: a highly effective sequence.

1524
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:46,600
Speaker 3: Now we do see Sarah kind of trying to go

1525
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 3: back to her own, her old life after this, but

1526
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 3: it's just it's not going to work out at this point.

1527
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:54,000
Speaker 3: So there are several different scenes there. There are scenes

1528
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:59,520
Speaker 3: of her increasingly tense and failing relationship with Tom, her boyfriend,

1529
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 3: Like they go out to dinner and they discuss things.

1530
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,760
Speaker 3: Tom airs his suspicions and they you know, they are

1531
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 3: fighting about that. She doesn't seem to want food for

1532
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 3: some reason. It's like, she orders a steak, but she's like,

1533
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 3: I can't eat this, and I think it makes her

1534
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 3: throw up.

1535
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:17,679
Speaker 2: Later, she said them oysters back. There's oysters are muscles

1536
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:19,760
Speaker 2: every sage, but she sent them back and he's like,

1537
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 2: I can't believe you did that.

1538
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 3: Also, she starts doing some tests on herself in the laboratory,

1539
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 3: and their colleague, Charlie, he explains what's going on. He's like, whoops, well,

1540
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 3: looking at your blood, we see that you actually have

1541
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 3: some kind of alien blood in you. There's you, there's

1542
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 3: you blood, and then there's some other non human kind

1543
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 3: of blood and they're fighting for dominance within your veins

1544
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 3: and the other blood is winning.

1545
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:50,320
Speaker 2: And so in this Sarah is feeling the titular hunger

1546
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:56,720
Speaker 2: she is craving the blood. She is herself becoming a vampire,

1547
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:01,559
Speaker 2: and like Miriam needs to feed, but she doesn't know

1548
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 2: how to do any of these things. She needs Miriam's

1549
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:08,599
Speaker 2: guidance in order to fully transition into this life as

1550
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 2: a creature of the night.

1551
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 3: That's right, So there's more negotiation on these fronts. We

1552
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 3: see that Sarah is not immediately into the idea of

1553
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:20,599
Speaker 3: drinking blood to survive, but she kind of ends up

1554
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 3: without a choice and it doesn't she so she's like

1555
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:27,599
Speaker 3: extremely weakened and she ends up staying at Miriam's house

1556
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 3: and she's like in a bed there and at one

1557
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 3: point they have more interactions, but eventually Miriam's like, look,

1558
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 3: I'm going to do the work. I'm going to show

1559
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:36,840
Speaker 3: you what to do. I'll go get a guy, and

1560
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 3: so she goes and there's like a great scene where

1561
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 3: she goes out and gets a guy wearing sunglasses at

1562
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:46,759
Speaker 3: night and brings him back to the house for Susan

1563
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:47,760
Speaker 3: Sarandon to eat.

1564
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the Jiggolow character, and boy, they really

1565
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 2: went out of their ways to make sure you were

1566
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,839
Speaker 2: okay with this dude getting fanged or not actually fank anked.

1567
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 2: And drained because he's like, he's rude, he's looking in

1568
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 2: the liquor crut and he like spits his chewing gum

1569
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:05,880
Speaker 2: out in Miriam's apartment. So we're like, we're totally okay

1570
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 2: with this guy getting it, and it doesn't take long

1571
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 2: before he does get it.

1572
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 3: So at this point you might be assuming, okay, well,

1573
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:16,320
Speaker 3: is Sarah just going to embrace the new lifestyle? Is

1574
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 3: Sarah this is what I am now. I am Miriam's

1575
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:22,080
Speaker 3: vampire lover. I am her vampire spawn. I can have

1576
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 3: eternal youth, and I just need to pick up people

1577
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 3: at the goth club, bring him back here and drink

1578
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 3: their blood. And that's what we're going to do for

1579
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 3: I don't know however long it takes. I don't recall.

1580
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 3: Does she get any indication of that what happened to

1581
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,680
Speaker 3: John will also happen to her eventually. Do they talk

1582
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 3: about that.

1583
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 2: I don't know that they talk about it at all. No,

1584
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 2: But I mean, obviously we the viewer knows that that

1585
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 2: would be the end result, you know, some centuries down

1586
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 2: the line.

1587
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 3: But instead of the full embrace of what happens, there

1588
01:28:54,600 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 3: is a twist. Sarah proves a more recalcitrant of a

1589
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 3: new Vampa. There's something more of her original humanity left

1590
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 3: than it seems like happened with any of Miriam's previous lovers.

1591
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 3: So instead of fully embracing the new lifestyle, there's a

1592
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 3: confrontation and a big, terrible climax. Now I forget exactly

1593
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 3: how it is triggered. What is it that Sarah does

1594
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 3: that ends up with Miriam like carrying her upstairs to

1595
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:29,160
Speaker 3: like rapidly put her away with the other old lovers.

1596
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:33,759
Speaker 3: Is it that she tries to make Miriam drink her blood.

1597
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 2: I'm a little unsure about how what exactly happens in

1598
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 2: this moment, but she ends up stabbing herself with the

1599
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:43,719
Speaker 2: Anka during a very close embrace, one of these embraces

1600
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 2: where you're not sure at first who is stabbed by

1601
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:50,400
Speaker 2: and who does the stabbing, But yeah, she stabs herself,

1602
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 2: and then Miriam is like, well this is you know,

1603
01:29:53,479 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 2: she's clearly heartbroken by this. You know, she clearly had

1604
01:29:56,280 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 2: very strong feelings for Sarah and saw a future with Sarah.

1605
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 2: But now she's going to have to take Sarah up

1606
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:04,759
Speaker 2: to the attic and file her away with the others.

1607
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 3: Right, But then it is revenge of the zombies. The

1608
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 3: ex lovers emerge in their withered, dusty husk forms, and

1609
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 3: they all come out and they take their vengeance, or

1610
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 3: should it be thought of as vengeance? I don't know

1611
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 3: exactly what you how you frame it, but they surround

1612
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 3: and attack Miriam and destroy her.

1613
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:31,120
Speaker 2: There are so many places in this film where I

1614
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 2: feel like a lesser film would would have gone in

1615
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 2: a different direction. I think there's certain pitfalls that a

1616
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 2: movie like this might have naturally veered into, and I

1617
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 2: think this is a key example. I think in a

1618
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 2: lesser picture it would have been a pure vengeance of

1619
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 2: the zombies, like they would have attacked her, torn her

1620
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 2: apart or something. Because the yeah, the undying husks of

1621
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 2: her former lovers do come out of their boxes. Yeah,

1622
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 2: And I think a lesser film might have had them

1623
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:00,120
Speaker 2: be a direct physical cause of Miriam's demise. You know,

1624
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 2: she would have been torn apart by her demons in

1625
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 2: a literal fashion. But if we wouldn't have fit here,

1626
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 2: because you know, set lovingly aside, they still love her,

1627
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 2: they still pine for her. I don't think they would

1628
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:16,000
Speaker 2: intentionally hurt her still, even in their reduced state. Plus

1629
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 2: though their longing is strong, they're physically quite weak and powerless,

1630
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:23,120
Speaker 2: like they're almost dust at this point. What could they do?

1631
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 2: And she clearly has a heightened strength, So instead it

1632
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 2: feels more like it's like it's not as much it's

1633
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 2: their presence, certainly, but it's also the cumulative guilt of

1634
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:37,760
Speaker 2: it all that overcomes Miriam and leads to what appears

1635
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 2: to be her physical death or physical demise, and this

1636
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 2: ends up ending the cursed existence of her thralls, like

1637
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 2: they finally crumble to dust.

1638
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 3: It is not exactly clear what the mechanism, what all

1639
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:52,759
Speaker 3: is going on here, but it feels like it works,

1640
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 3: I will say. After this, I mean it's curious too,

1641
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 3: because this is not quite the end of the film.

1642
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 3: We also see something else with Sarah, don't we.

1643
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:05,519
Speaker 2: That's right, because I really at this point in the

1644
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,880
Speaker 2: picture I thought Sarah was dead. I thought she killed

1645
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:11,400
Speaker 2: herself via the aunk, that's why she was being filed away.

1646
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 2: But you know, at the end we get this really

1647
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 2: excellent sequence where we see Sarah standing out in the

1648
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:22,920
Speaker 2: balcony of this like modern high rise in what I

1649
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 2: believe is London, And it's quite quite fetching because you

1650
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:29,519
Speaker 2: have the varied and at times quite old bits of

1651
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 2: architecture visible in the city, you know, so it kind of,

1652
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 2: you know, it kind of meshes nicely with this idea

1653
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 2: of empiric life. But Mike, I had several questions, like, Okay,

1654
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:42,560
Speaker 2: is Sarah a vampire now? Or is she free of

1655
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,439
Speaker 2: the curse completely in his mortal again? Did she? Or

1656
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:47,599
Speaker 2: you know, did she dodge the fate and the curse?

1657
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:51,719
Speaker 2: Has the experience unlocked some key into her own research?

1658
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 2: I assume she's keeping going with her work, but is

1659
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:55,760
Speaker 2: it going to take a new turn now that she

1660
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:59,799
Speaker 2: has has either been a vampire or partially been a vampire?

1661
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 2: Where is still a vampire? We don't know. We're left

1662
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:05,640
Speaker 2: to ponder it. And what happened to Miriam? Like is

1663
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 2: Miriam completely destroyed? Or is she in one of the

1664
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 2: boxes now?

1665
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, good question. Yeah, so a lot of questions

1666
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:16,759
Speaker 3: left open at the ending, and I don't know exactly

1667
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:21,280
Speaker 3: how to interpret it. But but yeah, despite I don't

1668
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:22,920
Speaker 3: know exactly what to say about the ending, But I

1669
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 3: love the film overall.

1670
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was quite impressed with it, you know,

1671
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:31,559
Speaker 2: I like you, I kind of thought the first ten minutes,

1672
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 2: we're going to set the tone for the entire picture,

1673
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:35,920
Speaker 2: and it ended up being a much more poignant and

1674
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:37,799
Speaker 2: thought provoking motion picture overall.

1675
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 3: One last thing I wanted to mention before we wrap

1676
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 3: up here, and it was the thought about the interaction

1677
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:46,600
Speaker 3: between the vampire themes of the story and the h

1678
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 3: and a common thing that's true about well. I was

1679
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 3: gonna say love stories and movies, but actually just love

1680
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 3: in real life, and that is the way that the

1681
01:33:56,120 --> 01:34:00,080
Speaker 3: vampire setting really helps the us against the world feeling

1682
01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 3: of being in love. I'm not the first person to

1683
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 3: point this out, of course, you know this is a

1684
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:09,280
Speaker 3: commonly observed thing, but there is a way in which

1685
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 3: true love really kind of it does encourage a kind

1686
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:18,240
Speaker 3: of contempt for like the rest of reality. You know

1687
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:22,439
Speaker 3: that when people are in love they like to talk,

1688
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,799
Speaker 3: you know, like to you know, to say mean things

1689
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:27,760
Speaker 3: about other people to each other, and to kind of

1690
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 3: be in a conspiracy. When people are in love, they

1691
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 3: like to do kind of selfish or irresponsible things against

1692
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:39,680
Speaker 3: other people outside of that two person conspiracy. It's just

1693
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 3: kind of it happens naturally. I don't know exactly why

1694
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 3: that is, but it just seems to be a thing

1695
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:48,760
Speaker 3: that flows naturally from this two person bond, and that

1696
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 3: works so well when your two characters are vampires, because

1697
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 3: that's exactly the mechanic of the story. It's like, we

1698
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,840
Speaker 3: together are in on this great secret. We're working this

1699
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:00,960
Speaker 3: little this little blood conspiracy. We can go out to

1700
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:03,439
Speaker 3: the club and only you and I are in on

1701
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:05,680
Speaker 3: the joke that the people that we bring home or

1702
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:07,360
Speaker 3: that we're just going to kill them, and you know,

1703
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 3: their bodies end up in the incinerator. And you know,

1704
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:13,639
Speaker 3: so we've talked about that us against the world quality

1705
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 3: in other great love movies we've done before. It's kind

1706
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:19,960
Speaker 3: of there totally different themes, but they're in a danger

1707
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 3: diabolic you know, the way that the two lovers are

1708
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 3: in on crimes together and the same thing as present here,

1709
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:33,120
Speaker 3: and that is such a fun and mysterious and interesting dynamic.

1710
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 3: Like it's funny to see it play out, and it

1711
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 3: feels good, but it also just raises these questions, like

1712
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 3: why is that so common that people feel and act

1713
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 3: that way when they're in love? Like what is it

1714
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 3: about being in love that does that to us? It

1715
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:49,479
Speaker 3: kind of kind of makes us bad to the rest

1716
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 3: of the world.

1717
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's one of the appeals of paranormal

1718
01:35:55,040 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 2: romances and paranormal love stories, because the experience of being

1719
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:02,720
Speaker 2: in love, the experience of being in a romance does

1720
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:05,680
Speaker 2: feel supernatural. It does have that kind of energy to it.

1721
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:08,599
Speaker 2: You know, you're not It feels like you have fallen

1722
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:11,160
Speaker 2: in love with a vampire or a were wolf, or

1723
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 2: a sasquatch or a centaur, you know whatever. You know,

1724
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:18,639
Speaker 2: your interest happens to be on the page or on

1725
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 2: the screen.

1726
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:21,879
Speaker 3: All right, Well, Happy Valentine's Day everybody.

1727
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,439
Speaker 2: All right, just a reminder to everybody that's stuff to

1728
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:28,919
Speaker 2: blow your mind. Is primarily a science and culture podcast

1729
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:31,559
Speaker 2: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays

1730
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:34,000
Speaker 2: we set aside most serious concerns to just talk about

1731
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:37,040
Speaker 2: a weird film here on Weird House Cinema. If you

1732
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 2: want to check out a list of all the movies

1733
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:40,760
Speaker 2: we've covered over the years, and sometimes a peek ahead

1734
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:43,679
Speaker 2: of what comes next, you can go to letterbox dot com.

1735
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:46,920
Speaker 2: Our user name there is weird House, and you'll find

1736
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:49,080
Speaker 2: a nice list of everything. And of course you can

1737
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 2: write into us as well, let us know what vampire

1738
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 2: film we should do next, you know, sometimes weeks ahead.

1739
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 2: We're going to do some other non vampire films for sure,

1740
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:59,320
Speaker 2: but we'll keep coming back to vampires and were wolves

1741
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:01,320
Speaker 2: and Mommy. It's inevitable.

1742
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:05,400
Speaker 3: Huge thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1743
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:07,200
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1744
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:09,559
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1745
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:11,840
Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you

1746
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 3: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your

1747
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

1748
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:24,960
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1749
01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:27,840
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1750
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:31,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.