Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser. Every day
Speaker 1: we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of
Speaker 1: business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on
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Speaker 1: Global News. Let's bring in our guest, Dr William Hazltine
Speaker 1: back with us. He has been a go to voice
Speaker 1: for US many times throughout the pandemic. He's chairman and
Speaker 1: president of Access Health International, founded more than a dozen
Speaker 1: biotech companies, including Human Genome. His autobiography release last year,
Speaker 1: My Lifelong Fight Against Disease UM, Dr Hazeltine, So good
Speaker 1: to have you back with us. Um, how are you
Speaker 1: and how do you make sense of some of the
Speaker 1: recent round of headlines that have to do with both
Speaker 1: COVID and the vaccine. Well, I'm fine, thank goodness, and
Speaker 1: my family is fine and we're looking forward to a
Speaker 1: better year than we've had. With respect to the headlines,
Speaker 1: they're very upsetting because we see an epidemic out of
Speaker 1: control in many countries, and when they try to control,
Speaker 1: at the moment they release it, the infections popping back up.
Speaker 1: Unless you were able to control this infection early on,
Speaker 1: like China and a few other countries, did, you're really
Speaker 1: in the soup for a long time, And thank goodness,
Speaker 1: we have vaccines. Have you gotten On the other hand, yeah,
Speaker 1: have I got the vaccine? Not yet. Now I'm not
Speaker 1: not eligible yet, but we're all waiting for the vaccines.
Speaker 1: I can tell you, excuse me that the first story.
Speaker 1: The second story, of course, is virus variation. All of
Speaker 1: those who who worked with HIV. This is like our
Speaker 1: old ghost coming back to haunt us. And it's just
Speaker 1: a very serious situation because the IRUs obviously is changing
Speaker 1: in response to immune pressure. Whether or not it's getting
Speaker 1: around the vaccines, I think it's only a matter of time.
Speaker 1: It may already have done so. And the optimism that
Speaker 1: people have that it's not gotten around the vaccines already
Speaker 1: is I think misplaced. Let me tell you the reason
Speaker 1: I think that there was a patient in Great Britain
Speaker 1: who had a prolonged infection because the patient was a
Speaker 1: new suppressed twenty three samples of virus were taken during
Speaker 1: the patient's treatment. The treatment with convalescent SARAH. That's people
Speaker 1: who successfully fought off the virus. That patient got three
Speaker 1: successive rounds, and over time, because they were sampling frequently,
Speaker 1: you could see variations arise and the virus became resistant
Speaker 1: to convalescent SIA. If it becomes resistance the convalescent SIRA,
Speaker 1: that means it can get around our natural immunity. And
Speaker 1: we can get around our natural immunity. It's very likely
Speaker 1: you can get around our artificial immunity that we create
Speaker 1: with vaccine. What what are you talking to that this
Speaker 1: would this would be the case with MR and A
Speaker 1: vaccines and other ways that vaccines have and are being developed.
Speaker 1: And just have about seconds and then we'll come back.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, please, any vaccine I'm telling about any vaccine. Well,
Speaker 1: and in just this last barty seconds, the strains that
Speaker 1: the variants are they usually stronger, tougher to deal with,
Speaker 1: or not necessarily just quickly, then the idea that they're
Speaker 1: weaker is wrong. They are not necessarily weaker in some
Speaker 1: cases they're more potent, I be more transmissible, uh and
Speaker 1: wrote higher tighters, higher concentrations and people who are at
Speaker 1: So there's very worrying observations out there today. I have
Speaker 1: to say we went to break. Tim and I were
Speaker 1: talking in the break dr hazeltine, and it felt pretty
Speaker 1: ominous here and what you had to say at variants
Speaker 1: and kind of where we go from here when it
Speaker 1: comes to COVID. So it made me feel like we
Speaker 1: never get out of it. Help me set the record straight.
Speaker 1: Is that fair or is it just a case that
Speaker 1: it's going to take longer. How do you see it?
Speaker 1: I see this as a constant battle against this virus,
Speaker 1: likely fight against US virus. I don't think it's going
Speaker 1: to paralyze our economies and keep us in the house
Speaker 1: as it does now. I think we'll have effective measures,
Speaker 1: will have much faster diagnostics to know who's infected. We'll
Speaker 1: have a whole series of drugs that we can take
Speaker 1: that can help us get over this and save us
Speaker 1: if we do get infected. And we'll have vaccines that
Speaker 1: will probably have to renew, whether it's every year, every
Speaker 1: two years, every three years, we're gonna have to be
Speaker 1: renewing our vaccines to keep up with the virus changing.
Speaker 1: But we will get this under control in a way
Speaker 1: that lets our lives go on. But it won't be easy.
Speaker 1: We've got to be vigilant. We've got to replace complacency
Speaker 1: with vigilance. What is the best historical precedence for this?
Speaker 1: If we think about modern modern public health, when have
Speaker 1: we gotten through something like this? Well, we've gotten through
Speaker 1: it in the nineteen eighteen flu, the nineteen fifty seven
Speaker 1: fifty eight flu, and we've gotten through it for the
Speaker 1: HIV pandemic. I think most people forget that that virus
Speaker 1: has killed upwards of thirty five million people in the world,
Speaker 1: and that is h much more than this is killed.
Speaker 1: And yet we've got another control. So modern science is
Speaker 1: capable of doing this. People have to cooperate, which they're
Speaker 1: not doing particularly well, especially with the last Christmas. But
Speaker 1: this these are this is infectious diseases we can control,
Speaker 1: but we cannot let down our vigilance. We can't assume
Speaker 1: that a vaccine is going to be the panacea. We've
Speaker 1: got to combine that with good public health measures and
Speaker 1: continued intensive research such as going on right now. Your
Speaker 1: autobiography where you talk about, you know, your fight, your
Speaker 1: lifelonge lifelong fight against disease. You've seen so much. We
Speaker 1: talk about polio age, COVID nineteen, you cover it all.
Speaker 1: How does COVID nineteen even compare, How is it different?
Speaker 1: How has it kind of just changed your mind thinking
Speaker 1: about some of the healthcare kind of foods that are
Speaker 1: out there for us as we move forward. You know,
Speaker 1: I think what woke me up with the HIV is
Speaker 1: that this is a brand new virus that came out
Speaker 1: of almost nowhere. We just didn't see it coming. After that,
Speaker 1: we have seen many of us have seen these viruses coming,
Speaker 1: and we've warned about a time and time again. They've
Speaker 1: been uh, all sorts of war games planned. We knew
Speaker 1: what would happen. There's a movie called Contagion which basically
Speaker 1: outline is exactly what's happening to us right now with COVID.
Speaker 1: The only differences. So it's basically we know that these
Speaker 1: are coming, we know they're continually coming, and we just
Speaker 1: have to make sure that we have very good surveillance.
Speaker 1: We dropped the ball as a country very seriously, both
Speaker 1: with diagnostics, with public health natures of control. And we're
Speaker 1: even dropping the ball right now with actually not creating vaccines,
Speaker 1: with vaccine distribution. We've got to up our game all
Speaker 1: across the board to take account of what nature is,
Speaker 1: the reality of nature, not what we'd like nature to be.
Speaker 1: What's a realistic vision of life after this pandemic? You
Speaker 1: say the vaccine will not will not be a panacea? Um,
Speaker 1: are we going to be wearing masks in two years?
Speaker 1: I think it's a good idea to wear masks in winter,
Speaker 1: not necessarily in the summer. You know, most of Asia
Speaker 1: wears masks all winter long. That's sensible because it's not
Speaker 1: just this virus, it's influenza viruses, it's old viruses, it's
Speaker 1: all sorts of things. So I think we'll be wearing
Speaker 1: masks more than we will. I think we'll be paying
Speaker 1: a lot more attention to our vaccination schedules, will be
Speaker 1: paying a lot more attention to what the scientists are
Speaker 1: saying about what the threats are that are out there.
Speaker 1: And I hope that our public health UH system. I
Speaker 1: just realize that this is a national and international problem.
Speaker 1: We can't treat it on a state by state level.
Speaker 1: We've got to treat it on a national but we
Speaker 1: have to have national policies which are uniform across the
Speaker 1: country because what happens in one state doesn't stay in
Speaker 1: that state. What happens in one country doesn't stay in
Speaker 1: that country. We've learned that. And if there's anything I
Speaker 1: hope comes out of this is a need for continued
Speaker 1: vigilance and continued improvement in our public health measure, global
Speaker 1: cooperation and no doubt about it. Um. Dr Hazeltine, nice
Speaker 1: to hear from you. I'm glad you your family are well.
Speaker 1: Please stay safe. Dr William Hazeltine, Chairman and President of
Speaker 1: Access Health International. His autobiography released this year, My Lifelong
Speaker 1: Fight against Disease from Polly Owned AIDS to COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Needless to say, a lot going on today. We know
Speaker 1: that if you check the calendar, you'll be reminded to
Speaker 1: Tim that the clock is ticking on getting an eleventh
Speaker 1: hour pardon from President Trump. TikTok. Yeah, Look, you're two
Speaker 1: weeks away from a new president. But get it done.
Speaker 1: What I like that parton you better get it So
Speaker 1: reporting for Bloomberg Business Week is Bloomberg News legal reporter
Speaker 1: David Yaffie Bellny. He is with us on the phone
Speaker 1: from Washington. David, Hey, nice to have you here with
Speaker 1: Tim and myself. Time is kind of running out, But
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean we might not see a few more
Speaker 1: presidential pardons. Is that fair to say? Yeah, that's certainly
Speaker 1: the case. Um right. The week before before Christmas, Trump
Speaker 1: issued forty nine pardons and commutations to various people, including
Speaker 1: close associates of his, of his former operatives who worked
Speaker 1: for him, his son in law, it's father, Charles Kushner,
Speaker 1: and he's widely expected to issue another round of those
Speaker 1: in the next couple of weeks before he leaves office.
Speaker 1: Who would those pardons go to. Well, there's a whole
Speaker 1: array of sort of white collar prisoners and kind of
Speaker 1: politically connected prisoners all over the country who are kind
Speaker 1: of jockeying for his attention, trying to curry favor with
Speaker 1: the types of right wing TV hosts and radio hosts
Speaker 1: who who President Trump listens to. U. They're they're a
Speaker 1: lobbyists all over Washington who are making the case for
Speaker 1: for particular prisoners. Um I spoke to the family of
Speaker 1: a of a former New York businessman named um Shalom
Speaker 1: weiss Um who was was sentenced to basically a life
Speaker 1: sentence in prison for money laundering in the early two thousand's.
Speaker 1: And he's got a lobbyist working for him in Washington.
Speaker 1: His his nephew is attempting to contact the legislators and
Speaker 1: getting them to put in the good word with the president,
Speaker 1: sending tweets out to everybody he can think of. So
Speaker 1: that's the type of full court press that you know,
Speaker 1: all sorts of federal prisoners are are undertaking these days
Speaker 1: in the in the waning days of the Trump administration, David,
Speaker 1: I have to say, what I love about this story
Speaker 1: or what I kind of scratched my head about, is like,
Speaker 1: what is the process actually for for giving out pardons?
Speaker 1: And to be fair, um, a lot of pardons were
Speaker 1: given out during the Obama administration, the George W. Bush,
Speaker 1: I mean a little perspective in terms of what we're seeing.
Speaker 1: It feels like a lot from Trump, But we've seen
Speaker 1: this before in other administrations. Correct sure. In fact, if
Speaker 1: you look at the numbers, has actually issued way fewer
Speaker 1: pardons and communications than than previous presidents. The difference is
Speaker 1: that the clemency grants that Trump is giving out or
Speaker 1: going to people who are politically connected or able to
Speaker 1: get his attention through lobbying, rather than to people who
Speaker 1: have applied to the Justice Department, had their petitions vetted
Speaker 1: by government lawyers and sort of gone through that bureaucratic
Speaker 1: process which is designed to basically, um, you know, figure
Speaker 1: out who's sort of most most deserving of clemency. And
Speaker 1: no doubt there were there were major problems with that.
Speaker 1: Well from this is the other thing that's scratching my head,
Speaker 1: but I thought there was a process like you had
Speaker 1: to kind of check certain boxes before it could even
Speaker 1: be considered. But obviously the president um has gone around that.
Speaker 1: I mean, are there any kind of really rules and
Speaker 1: standards for this or is there a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: is there criteria or is there a lot of wiggle
Speaker 1: room here? So the the official, the official processes. You're
Speaker 1: a federal prisoner, you apply for clemency to the Justice Department.
Speaker 1: The Office of the Pardon Attorney evaluates your clemency petition,
Speaker 1: gets in touch with the judge who sentenced you, with
Speaker 1: the prosecutor who prosecuted you, and makes the determination, you know,
Speaker 1: should we recommend you for for clemency. The Pardon Office
Speaker 1: will look at a lot of different criteria including, you know,
Speaker 1: behavior in UM during the time that you've been in prison, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, whether you've expressed remorse for the crimes that
Speaker 1: you committed, a whole wide set of criteria like that.
Speaker 1: Then the Pardon Office makes a recommendation to high ups
Speaker 1: in the Justice Department who sort of vet the files
Speaker 1: and decide which ones they're going to send over to
Speaker 1: the White House for the President to make it make
Speaker 1: a decision on whether to grant clemoncy. That's the way
Speaker 1: that the process is traditionally worked. What what Trump has
Speaker 1: done is basically cut the Justice Department out of the equation,
Speaker 1: established a kind of a white head sort of informal
Speaker 1: White House panel that takes recommendations from anybody and everybody.
Speaker 1: You know. Kim Kardashian of course, famously was able to
Speaker 1: successfully lobby the President to pardon somebody whose case she
Speaker 1: was interested in, UM and so so really the abbying
Speaker 1: is like focused directly at the White House now, and
Speaker 1: that kind of standard process of the Justice Department has
Speaker 1: been kind of cast aside and to be clear, this
Speaker 1: is totally legal. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, the president. There
Speaker 1: are there are very few limits on the president's pardon power.
Speaker 1: It's not a it's not a requirement that he only
Speaker 1: pardoned people who have been vetted by the Justice Department.
Speaker 1: It's just that's that's the norm of how it's worked
Speaker 1: for decades in Washington. And there are isolated examples of
Speaker 1: other presidents circumventing that that process. Um. But but Trump
Speaker 1: is really the first president in living memory who has
Speaker 1: kind of systematically undermined it, um and abandoned any sort
Speaker 1: of pretense of kind of fairness and uhpends your vigorous
Speaker 1: bureaucratic review. Okay, So what's the latest on pardons for
Speaker 1: family members, for himself, um and for for you know,
Speaker 1: other people who are close to the president and the
Speaker 1: president's administration. Is that still possible? Um, it's certainly still possible. Albums.
Speaker 1: He'll have the power to do it until his term
Speaker 1: ends on January. UM. There's obviously been a lot of
Speaker 1: speculation about the prospect that he could issue preemptive pardons
Speaker 1: to his children, to Jared Kushner, which would basically say,
Speaker 1: you know this, this person is shielded from any future
Speaker 1: criminal charges at the federal level that might be brought
Speaker 1: against them. Um, there's a whole legal debate about whether
Speaker 1: it's actually constitutional for the president to pardon himself. Um,
Speaker 1: that question is sort of unsettled legally. The Supreme Court
Speaker 1: has never had the chance to weigh in on it.
Speaker 1: So it's something that Trump could do, and it's something
Speaker 1: that would only get overturned if if federal prosecutors actually
Speaker 1: brought charges against him after he leaves office, which is unlikely. UM,
Speaker 1: So you know, we're kind of in an uncertain phase
Speaker 1: now where it's not clear whether he's going to issue
Speaker 1: those pardons. There's certainly a chance that he might, and
Speaker 1: whether the whole up in court afterwards is sort of
Speaker 1: another questions, just another um level chapter. Well, I just
Speaker 1: wonder how this change is precedent for presidents moving forward, right, Like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: will it David, Well, I mean, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: that's a difficult question to answer. I mean, of course,
Speaker 1: the fear from people who really value the traditional norms
Speaker 1: of Washington and the traditional process for um, granting clemency
Speaker 1: to prisoners, fear that you know, this will give a
Speaker 1: license to future presidents to deviate from that that process
Speaker 1: in alternative ways. But you know, there's no guarantee of that.
Speaker 1: I mean the expectations that Joe Biden will revert something
Speaker 1: similar to that kind of traditional process that I outlined earlier,
Speaker 1: in which the Justice part and evaluates petitions and makes
Speaker 1: recommendations to the White House. Um. But you know, I
Speaker 1: mean that that process had its own flaws, and what
Speaker 1: this could also do is create an opportunity for Biden
Speaker 1: or for future presidents to sort of rejigger the process
Speaker 1: in ways that don't kind of corrupt it with relentless lobbying,
Speaker 1: but make it move faster and allow more deserving people
Speaker 1: to receive clemency. Yeah, I don't know that this is
Speaker 1: like one of those things I pull out a bottle
Speaker 1: of wine, have a great debate with your friends over
Speaker 1: presidential parts, because part of me is like, I just
Speaker 1: don't quite get it, why we need it. And then
Speaker 1: you know, I've done some reading on the history of it,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, initially for people who you know,
Speaker 1: guys who committed treason, So that to me sounds egregious
Speaker 1: to do we partner not necessarily your son in law's dad.
Speaker 1: It's what you're saying. Yeah, there's that too, Like it
Speaker 1: just feels like, do we need to have a presidential pardon.
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure that you know of it. I
Speaker 1: guess I understand it. Maybe I don't know, but um,
Speaker 1: like I said, good, maybe a couple bottles of wine
Speaker 1: then you have a good debate. David, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: David Yaffie Bellini, legal reporter or Bloomberg News on the
Speaker 1: phone from Washington, d C. Do you think they make sense?
Speaker 1: I think it's antiquated. Yeah, I do too. I think
Speaker 1: I think our forefathers were like, listen, you know, at
Speaker 1: some point you folks have to like look at these
Speaker 1: rules and get rid of someone. There's no check on it,
Speaker 1: and that's the thing. Yeah, it's very it seems very
Speaker 1: like it's from a monarchy or something. Yeah, I agree
Speaker 1: with you, all right, I'm with you on that one.
Speaker 1: All Right, we'll see if we get any kind of
Speaker 1: feedback on that. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Messer from Bloomberg Radio. So it's already one for the
Speaker 1: record books, record turnout for a runoff, our can amount
Speaker 1: of money raised for the congressional races. Of course, Tim
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Georgia Senate runoff races happening as
Speaker 1: we speak today today, Like we're finally got here, right,
Speaker 1: finally finally and we know so much really hinges off
Speaker 1: of the outcome of these races. Yeah, Look, it's all
Speaker 1: about how much power President Biden and the Biden administration has.
Speaker 1: It has implications for Americans when it comes to stimulus
Speaker 1: and the economic recovery to the coronavirus pandemic. It'll stay
Speaker 1: with us for a long time. So let's get into
Speaker 1: it and find out what's going on. Our team covering
Speaker 1: it is Bloomberg Government reporter Emily Wilkins on the ground
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. Bloomberg News national political correspondent Gregory Cordy.
Speaker 1: He's on the phone in Washington. D c Um, Emily,
Speaker 1: let's kick it off with you. What are you seeing?
Speaker 1: What's the turnout look like? What are you hearing when
Speaker 1: it comes to maybe the early count versus the later
Speaker 1: count phill Us in So we just left the phone
Speaker 1: in place, and I talked to one of the workers
Speaker 1: there and she said, that's the number of people that
Speaker 1: she seeing today for the rob is about the same
Speaker 1: as what she saw in November for the general election.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, we did see more than three million
Speaker 1: people go ahead and vote in early voting, So we're
Speaker 1: not seeing giant lines today at this point. In fact,
Speaker 1: one of George's top election officials said that from his data,
Speaker 1: the laytime for most polling places was under a single minute,
Speaker 1: So there seems to be uh people are moving through
Speaker 1: the system today. Doesn't seem to be too too many
Speaker 1: major delays that we've heard about at this point. So far,
Speaker 1: so good. It sounds like I'm Emily, what about when
Speaker 1: it comes to results. When do you think we'll start
Speaker 1: to see results? So the poets closed at seven pm.
Speaker 1: That's when votes are going to begin to be counted.
Speaker 1: As we see things come in, We're going to be
Speaker 1: doing in person votes first. Those are expected to uh
Speaker 1: plant in favor of the Republicans. So at the end
Speaker 1: of the night it might look like the two Republicans
Speaker 1: David Fordue and Kelly Leffler are upposite bit on their
Speaker 1: Democratic opponents. But when the absentee bells begin to get counted,
Speaker 1: we expect that margin to narrow pretty sign sacntly. Although
Speaker 1: we're not going to as but we don't expect to
Speaker 1: call a winner tonight. We're hoping that we can call
Speaker 1: one within the next traveled days. We're not expecting to
Speaker 1: have to wait the ten days that we had to
Speaker 1: wait for Georgia to be called for the November three election. Gregory,
Speaker 1: I want to bring you in here and talk about
Speaker 1: implications of this, uh, not just for for Americans, but
Speaker 1: but also for President Biden when he becomes president in
Speaker 1: just a couple of weeks. How important is this race
Speaker 1: in Georgia to the Biden administration. Yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: really extraordinary circumstance because you know, we have runoff races,
Speaker 1: especially in the South. Law of southern states do it
Speaker 1: if neither Canada gets a majority in the general election.
Speaker 1: But never before in history we had two Senate races
Speaker 1: from the same state, both up for grabs. And not
Speaker 1: only that, but these races will decide control of the Senate.
Speaker 1: Now that the Democrats have a little bit more of
Speaker 1: an uptill crime here because they have to elect both
Speaker 1: Rapiel Warnock and John ass Off to get it to
Speaker 1: essentially a fifty fifty tie in the Senate. And then
Speaker 1: only then can the Vice president elect Kamala Harris when
Speaker 1: she's sworn in cast the tiebreaking vote in favor of Democrats,
Speaker 1: and that will really, uh have a big impact on
Speaker 1: how Joe Biden approaches the first one days of his presidency.
Speaker 1: If he has the majority, you can afford to look
Speaker 1: for some of the bigger, broader, bolder proposals that he
Speaker 1: outlined the campaign, things like repealing the Trump tax cuts,
Speaker 1: raising them animum wage a something that resembles uh, but
Speaker 1: it's not exactly the Green New Deal. UH. As far
Speaker 1: as environmental legislation, if he doesn't have control of the Senate,
Speaker 1: then he's got to look to things like infrastructure, COVID relief,
Speaker 1: cyber security, maybe criminal justice. UH. And so it'll be
Speaker 1: a much more moderate agenda because I'll have to look
Speaker 1: for Republican votes. It's also gregory, you know, might delay
Speaker 1: the process us of things, including you know, Biden's nominations
Speaker 1: for cabinet positions. I mean, it could just you know,
Speaker 1: if it ultimately ends up with the Republicans in control
Speaker 1: of this and it just could slow this process down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of really sore feelings, especially among Republicans,
Speaker 1: about how some of President Trump's nominees were treated. UH.
Speaker 1: And a lot of his nominees. You know, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of Education Secretary Bepsy divoce Uh Mike Penns had to
Speaker 1: cast the tie breaking vote to get her confirmed. And
Speaker 1: so if that trend continues and a lot of Joe
Speaker 1: Biden's nominees for cabinet posts are confirmed on party line votes, boy,
Speaker 1: it's going to be awfully close. And even if they're
Speaker 1: not voted down, the majority leader has the power to
Speaker 1: kind of slow things down, to refer things to committee,
Speaker 1: to not bring up votes the floor right away, and
Speaker 1: that could hamper the smooth transition to a Biden president. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we weren't joking when we said all eyes are on Georgia, Emily.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about what happened in george
Speaker 1: over just over the last couple of days, We've had
Speaker 1: the president down there, We've had the president elect in
Speaker 1: Georgia rallying on behalf of Democrats, and then of course
Speaker 1: we had the infamous call between the President and the
Speaker 1: Secretary of State and other Georgia official elections officials that
Speaker 1: leaked to the Washington Post over the weekend, putting pressure
Speaker 1: on officials there to find the votes. In the words
Speaker 1: of the President how has that specter played over with
Speaker 1: voters in Georgia over the last couple of days. So
Speaker 1: as soon as that story got late, Democrats kind of
Speaker 1: jumped on it right away. Vice President Life Paris was
Speaker 1: down at a rally in Susannah. She called it an
Speaker 1: abuse of power. John also said it was a direct
Speaker 1: attack on our democracy to Democrats have come out really
Speaker 1: strong on that. It remains to be seen exactly what
Speaker 1: impact it's going to have on Republicans. Certainly, there are
Speaker 1: some Republicans, particularly in Washington, who we've seen, you know,
Speaker 1: criticized the phone call. But what strikes me is as
Speaker 1: I talked to Republican voters here in Georgia, most of
Speaker 1: them agree with the president in that they believe that's
Speaker 1: the November third election had a lot of fraud. They
Speaker 1: have a lot of sincerns about it. And even though
Speaker 1: where did we have no convincing evidence that there was
Speaker 1: fraud in that November third election, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: belief here that that's an issue. And so voters to
Speaker 1: hear the calls, they might not sort of fully understand
Speaker 1: that Trump is trying to overturn a legitimate election. They
Speaker 1: might agree with the president. Hey, Emily, just quickly thirty
Speaker 1: seconds here. So what's driving people most to the polls?
Speaker 1: Is it concerns about fraud and making sure that their
Speaker 1: vote is uh, you know, represented, and the count? Is
Speaker 1: it the economy? Is it the virus? What is it?
Speaker 1: Just very quickly, I can do this in five seconds.
Speaker 1: It's control of the Senate. Control of the Senate, Washington.
Speaker 1: You're my hero. Now. You did that so well, Emily Wilkins.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Bloomberg government reporter on the ground
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, love this story to buy. Bloomberg News national
Speaker 1: political correspondent Gregory Cordy talking about like this is really significant.
Speaker 1: This will, as we sat at the top of our
Speaker 1: broadcast him, will determine the distractory of so much for
Speaker 1: the Biden administration. Yeah, it was really surprising to learn
Speaker 1: from Gregory Cordy earlier when he would join us on
Speaker 1: Quick Take today, was that Biden will be the first
Speaker 1: president in years if they lose to actually um not
Speaker 1: have a co Congress that he controls, which is significant.
Speaker 1: And catch tim on Quicktake. You can find that on
Speaker 1: ROCCU and Apple TV and so much more. Mac journal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you let me drive, no no, no, honey, please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the vel I want to drive. Just drive
Speaker 1: by the question. This is the drive to the Globe community. Thanks,
Speaker 1: We'll try us. Dawn on Bloomberg Radio, all right, just
Speaker 1: spend eleven minutes ago until we wrap up this trading day.
Speaker 1: Let's get to the drive to the close day. Adeed's
Speaker 1: back with us, managing principal and senior portfolio Strategies at
Speaker 1: Pepack Private Wealth Management. A billion dollars in assets under management.
Speaker 1: David with us on the phone from Semit, New Jersey. David,
Speaker 1: Happy New Year. Nice to have you here. I'm back
Speaker 1: with us. How are you. There's a lot going on
Speaker 1: doing well. Um, you know, it was about today yesterday,
Speaker 1: but we're back on track today. So we are constructively
Speaker 1: optimistic going forward. Thank you. So which day is right?
Speaker 1: Yesterday or today? Ultimately, you know, I think there's a
Speaker 1: two key fundamentals that are still in play. First of
Speaker 1: all is the vaccine. We had the problems last year
Speaker 1: because of the worst pandemic since two thousand and eighteen,
Speaker 1: and since then, of course we've gotten two vaccines that
Speaker 1: have been approved efficacy. Um. A third is over in
Speaker 1: the continent Astrosenica. That will come here eventually, we expect
Speaker 1: to see further. So ultimately, I think we're still going
Speaker 1: to have a tremendous tail wind from the get out
Speaker 1: of home trade as people re engage with the economy.
Speaker 1: As slowly these vaccines are jabbed into arms and people
Speaker 1: get back to normal. That's theme. One thing too, is
Speaker 1: unbelievable support from policymakers. It starts right with the Federal Reserve,
Speaker 1: which have pinned rates down to zero, and there's no
Speaker 1: sign that desk can change anytime soon. So we're back
Speaker 1: in a situation where if you want to at least
Speaker 1: equal the rate of inflation, you've got to do something
Speaker 1: more creative than being in a bank account. And so
Speaker 1: this is continuing sturge into stocks. I think slowly is
Speaker 1: the key word that you use when it comes to
Speaker 1: the vaccine rollout here. Um, what is the market expecting
Speaker 1: when it comes to how quickly these shots can get
Speaker 1: in arms, Because at the way it's going right now,
Speaker 1: this is going to take a long time and it
Speaker 1: is not encouraging. Well to me make a great point.
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, I'm worried most about mutations, and what scared
Speaker 1: me more was what we heard down in South Africa
Speaker 1: where they apparently have some sort of variation that may
Speaker 1: require re engineering if some of the vaccines. In terms
Speaker 1: of the rollout, I think it's just gonna take a
Speaker 1: little while to get it right. I mean, right now
Speaker 1: we're being very cautious to make sure the neediest among
Speaker 1: us get it first. But at a certain point I
Speaker 1: think it will be a free for all as supply
Speaker 1: lines ramp up and we can't have um. For example,
Speaker 1: the fiser uh falling compound be wasted because people who
Speaker 1: really should be taking it for whatever reason can't get
Speaker 1: it or don't want to take it. So I think
Speaker 1: that will ramp up UM. It's just a question of time,
Speaker 1: all right. So question of time UM, and we can
Speaker 1: never really market time well, although I do feel like
Speaker 1: there might be some indications throughout the year to give
Speaker 1: you an idea of, you know, whether or not we'll
Speaker 1: see market sell off or market rally. So having said that, David,
Speaker 1: how do you position yourself? Where are you finding opportunities
Speaker 1: specifically right now? Absolutely so, Really, Carol, it's still a
Speaker 1: tale of two markets. On the one hand, you've got
Speaker 1: the over US and trading at some of the priciest
Speaker 1: levels ever close to twenty three times next year's earnings,
Speaker 1: and that assumes we get twenty pick up um in
Speaker 1: earnings from this year from two thousand one. Having said that,
Speaker 1: of all the components of the SMP company lost money
Speaker 1: last year, which means we are rolling up our sleeves
Speaker 1: in looking We're staying diversified, of course, but we're looking
Speaker 1: to those two hundreds to see which are well positioned
Speaker 1: in terms of franchises, in terms of business model, and
Speaker 1: will benefit from the reopening of this economy and continued
Speaker 1: low interest rates. So that's what we're working on. We're
Speaker 1: and I think a key um visual for people is
Speaker 1: to is to consider the Russell one thousand growth, which
Speaker 1: was up close to thirty eight percent last year, versus
Speaker 1: the Russell one thousand value, which is just above the
Speaker 1: flat line. That's a huge disparity. I think it closes
Speaker 1: in favor of value over the next twelve eighteen months.
Speaker 1: I want to talk bitcoin here because this was the
Speaker 1: story when I woke up yesterday morning, and it seems
Speaker 1: to be sort of ignored today. Um, that decline that
Speaker 1: we saw yesterday, it was the biggest decline that we've
Speaker 1: seen since March, still bitcoin recovering most of it almost
Speaker 1: back at record that we saw over the weekend. Um,
Speaker 1: how do you position bitcoin in your investment portfolios, in
Speaker 1: your client's portfolios, in your strategy, To be perfectly asked
Speaker 1: with you, we don't and and and I'll tell you why.
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't know how to value that. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, there is no cash flow. You can't uh
Speaker 1: net present value a stream of cash flows. So uh,
Speaker 1: you know, is it is it worth a hundred thousand?
Speaker 1: Is it worth ten thousand? I can't tell you. Second,
Speaker 1: of course, we do like to find things that have
Speaker 1: some sort of dividend or interest component. Historically, over the
Speaker 1: last hundred years, half your return in the market has
Speaker 1: come from dividends. Of course, bitcoin pays none of that. Third,
Speaker 1: of course, is legalty. I mean there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things people want which are hell back. If anyone thinks
Speaker 1: that the government can't stop what is a great product.
Speaker 1: Look at what happened, for example, to Aunt Financial and China.
Speaker 1: I decided no, jack Ma, you can't take that company public,
Speaker 1: and it disappeared. Look at things like cannabis here it's
Speaker 1: been held back because the government regulation. Ultimately governments I
Speaker 1: don't think can have currencies that can't be controlled by them,
Speaker 1: that can't be stimulated by them. And of course, but
Speaker 1: that is if it's a concurrency, right, we still don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, our in house analysts looks at it is
Speaker 1: kind of a collectible of some sorts, you know, and
Speaker 1: there's supplied demand restraints that provide support from the price.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's not your typical investment. But
Speaker 1: having said that, there are things like John bonds and
Speaker 1: that Nana yield that used to be considered exotic and
Speaker 1: now their mainstream. So it makes me a little wary
Speaker 1: that who knows what the future might be for bitcoin? Well, absolutely,
Speaker 1: who does know. It's all probability game. But of course
Speaker 1: it will not necessarily be bitcoined. There's a series of
Speaker 1: other crypto currencies. And what I thought was very interesting
Speaker 1: is yesterday one of the federal regulators gave permission to
Speaker 1: banks to do business using cryptocurrencies with respect to stable coins,
Speaker 1: and so I said, what stable coins? Exactly? What stable
Speaker 1: coins mean cryptocurrencies which are tied to something like dollars, euros,
Speaker 1: or gold. So I definitely think that there is a
Speaker 1: great future for electronic trading of money movement or value movement.
Speaker 1: I just don't know whether there's going to be bitcoin,
Speaker 1: and given the popularity of it that in my thirty
Speaker 1: years of doing that, that is a yellow flag, if
Speaker 1: not a red flag right there with the way it's
Speaker 1: moving around. I'm gonna say, David, is we're living in
Speaker 1: strange times. There's a lot of disruption going on. Um
Speaker 1: we shall see, David Diets, thank you so much, Managing
Speaker 1: Principal Senior Profilios Tragisic at Pepack Private Wealth Management eight
Speaker 1: billion uh in assets under management. Jennings on the phone
Speaker 1: from seven A, Jersey, thanks so much for listening to
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