WEBVTT - Georgia Runoff Elections for U.S. Senate 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.840 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. If you 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.280 can download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.480 dot com. If you can also listen to our radio 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.400 show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.320 sure to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.280 Global News. Let's bring in our guest, Dr William Hazltine 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.680 back with us. He has been a go to voice 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.280 for US many times throughout the pandemic. He's chairman and 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.720 president of Access Health International, founded more than a dozen 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:42.400 biotech companies, including Human Genome. His autobiography release last year, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.840 My Lifelong Fight Against Disease UM, Dr Hazeltine, So good 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.279 to have you back with us. Um, how are you 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.680 and how do you make sense of some of the 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.720 recent round of headlines that have to do with both 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:59.640 COVID and the vaccine. Well, I'm fine, thank goodness, and 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.200 my family is fine and we're looking forward to a 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.000 better year than we've had. With respect to the headlines, 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:12.000 they're very upsetting because we see an epidemic out of 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.679 control in many countries, and when they try to control, 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.200 at the moment they release it, the infections popping back up. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.000 Unless you were able to control this infection early on, 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.000 like China and a few other countries, did, you're really 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.680 in the soup for a long time, And thank goodness, 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.680 we have vaccines. Have you gotten On the other hand, yeah, 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.000 have I got the vaccine? Not yet. Now I'm not 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.640 not eligible yet, but we're all waiting for the vaccines. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.800 I can tell you, excuse me that the first story. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.840 The second story, of course, is virus variation. All of 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.120 those who who worked with HIV. This is like our 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.800 old ghost coming back to haunt us. And it's just 0:01:55.000 --> 0:02:01.960 a very serious situation because the IRUs obviously is changing 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.720 in response to immune pressure. Whether or not it's getting 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.480 around the vaccines, I think it's only a matter of time. 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.600 It may already have done so. And the optimism that 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.360 people have that it's not gotten around the vaccines already 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.320 is I think misplaced. Let me tell you the reason 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.400 I think that there was a patient in Great Britain 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:27.079 who had a prolonged infection because the patient was a 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:31.040 new suppressed twenty three samples of virus were taken during 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.960 the patient's treatment. The treatment with convalescent SARAH. That's people 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.920 who successfully fought off the virus. That patient got three 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.760 successive rounds, and over time, because they were sampling frequently, 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.520 you could see variations arise and the virus became resistant 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:53.160 to convalescent SIA. If it becomes resistance the convalescent SIRA, 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.760 that means it can get around our natural immunity. And 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.840 we can get around our natural immunity. It's very likely 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.880 you can get around our artificial immunity that we create 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:07.880 with vaccine. What what are you talking to that this 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.040 would this would be the case with MR and A 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.560 vaccines and other ways that vaccines have and are being developed. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.000 And just have about seconds and then we'll come back. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:23.280 Go ahead, please, any vaccine I'm telling about any vaccine. Well, 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.320 and in just this last barty seconds, the strains that 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:32.720 the variants are they usually stronger, tougher to deal with, 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:37.119 or not necessarily just quickly, then the idea that they're 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.000 weaker is wrong. They are not necessarily weaker in some 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.720 cases they're more potent, I be more transmissible, uh and 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.280 wrote higher tighters, higher concentrations and people who are at 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.080 So there's very worrying observations out there today. I have 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.600 to say we went to break. Tim and I were 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.840 talking in the break dr hazeltine, and it felt pretty 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.680 ominous here and what you had to say at variants 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:02.760 and kind of where we go from here when it 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.080 comes to COVID. So it made me feel like we 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.080 never get out of it. Help me set the record straight. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.120 Is that fair or is it just a case that 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:11.800 it's going to take longer. How do you see it? 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.000 I see this as a constant battle against this virus, 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.800 likely fight against US virus. I don't think it's going 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.520 to paralyze our economies and keep us in the house 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.400 as it does now. I think we'll have effective measures, 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.800 will have much faster diagnostics to know who's infected. We'll 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.080 have a whole series of drugs that we can take 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.680 that can help us get over this and save us 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.360 if we do get infected. And we'll have vaccines that 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.920 will probably have to renew, whether it's every year, every 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.760 two years, every three years, we're gonna have to be 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.920 renewing our vaccines to keep up with the virus changing. 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.960 But we will get this under control in a way 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.560 that lets our lives go on. But it won't be easy. 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.080 We've got to be vigilant. We've got to replace complacency 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.080 with vigilance. What is the best historical precedence for this? 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:04.839 If we think about modern modern public health, when have 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.320 we gotten through something like this? Well, we've gotten through 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.800 it in the nineteen eighteen flu, the nineteen fifty seven 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.800 fifty eight flu, and we've gotten through it for the 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.640 HIV pandemic. I think most people forget that that virus 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:22.040 has killed upwards of thirty five million people in the world, 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.159 and that is h much more than this is killed. 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.440 And yet we've got another control. So modern science is 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.800 capable of doing this. People have to cooperate, which they're 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.000 not doing particularly well, especially with the last Christmas. But 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.880 this these are this is infectious diseases we can control, 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.440 but we cannot let down our vigilance. We can't assume 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.080 that a vaccine is going to be the panacea. We've 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.960 got to combine that with good public health measures and 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.720 continued intensive research such as going on right now. Your 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.680 autobiography where you talk about, you know, your fight, your 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:00.200 lifelonge lifelong fight against disease. You've seen so much. We 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.720 talk about polio age, COVID nineteen, you cover it all. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.480 How does COVID nineteen even compare, How is it different? 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.599 How has it kind of just changed your mind thinking 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.960 about some of the healthcare kind of foods that are 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.200 out there for us as we move forward. You know, 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.520 I think what woke me up with the HIV is 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.599 that this is a brand new virus that came out 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.159 of almost nowhere. We just didn't see it coming. After that, 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.760 we have seen many of us have seen these viruses coming, 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.000 and we've warned about a time and time again. They've 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:32.280 been uh, all sorts of war games planned. We knew 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.440 what would happen. There's a movie called Contagion which basically 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.279 outline is exactly what's happening to us right now with COVID. 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.160 The only differences. So it's basically we know that these 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.080 are coming, we know they're continually coming, and we just 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.719 have to make sure that we have very good surveillance. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:52.120 We dropped the ball as a country very seriously, both 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.520 with diagnostics, with public health natures of control. And we're 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.839 even dropping the ball right now with actually not creating vaccines, 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.000 with vaccine distribution. We've got to up our game all 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:07.280 across the board to take account of what nature is, 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.840 the reality of nature, not what we'd like nature to be. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.600 What's a realistic vision of life after this pandemic? You 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.360 say the vaccine will not will not be a panacea? Um, 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.480 are we going to be wearing masks in two years? 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.080 I think it's a good idea to wear masks in winter, 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.559 not necessarily in the summer. You know, most of Asia 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.120 wears masks all winter long. That's sensible because it's not 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.680 just this virus, it's influenza viruses, it's old viruses, it's 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.000 all sorts of things. So I think we'll be wearing 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.559 masks more than we will. I think we'll be paying 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.720 a lot more attention to our vaccination schedules, will be 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.160 paying a lot more attention to what the scientists are 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.800 saying about what the threats are that are out there. 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.280 And I hope that our public health UH system. I 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.040 just realize that this is a national and international problem. 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.600 We can't treat it on a state by state level. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.240 We've got to treat it on a national but we 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.920 have to have national policies which are uniform across the 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.040 country because what happens in one state doesn't stay in 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.520 that state. What happens in one country doesn't stay in 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.440 that country. We've learned that. And if there's anything I 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.040 hope comes out of this is a need for continued 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:21.000 vigilance and continued improvement in our public health measure, global 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:25.120 cooperation and no doubt about it. Um. Dr Hazeltine, nice 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.320 to hear from you. I'm glad you your family are well. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.640 Please stay safe. Dr William Hazeltine, Chairman and President of 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.920 Access Health International. His autobiography released this year, My Lifelong 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.080 Fight against Disease from Polly Owned AIDS to COVID nineteen. 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.800 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.640 Needless to say, a lot going on today. We know 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.920 that if you check the calendar, you'll be reminded to 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:52.000 Tim that the clock is ticking on getting an eleventh 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.120 hour pardon from President Trump. TikTok. Yeah, Look, you're two 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.760 weeks away from a new president. But get it done. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.000 What I like that parton you better get it So 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.600 reporting for Bloomberg Business Week is Bloomberg News legal reporter 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.000 David Yaffie Bellny. He is with us on the phone 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.760 from Washington. David, Hey, nice to have you here with 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.120 Tim and myself. Time is kind of running out, But 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.959 that doesn't mean we might not see a few more 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:19.079 presidential pardons. Is that fair to say? Yeah, that's certainly 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:23.040 the case. Um right. The week before before Christmas, Trump 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.160 issued forty nine pardons and commutations to various people, including 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.960 close associates of his, of his former operatives who worked 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.040 for him, his son in law, it's father, Charles Kushner, 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.520 and he's widely expected to issue another round of those 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.760 in the next couple of weeks before he leaves office. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.720 Who would those pardons go to. Well, there's a whole 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.280 array of sort of white collar prisoners and kind of 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.280 politically connected prisoners all over the country who are kind 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.880 of jockeying for his attention, trying to curry favor with 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.120 the types of right wing TV hosts and radio hosts 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.760 who who President Trump listens to. U. They're they're a 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.640 lobbyists all over Washington who are making the case for 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.480 for particular prisoners. Um I spoke to the family of 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.840 a of a former New York businessman named um Shalom 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:15.800 weiss Um who was was sentenced to basically a life 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.439 sentence in prison for money laundering in the early two thousand's. 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.600 And he's got a lobbyist working for him in Washington. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.600 His his nephew is attempting to contact the legislators and 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.559 getting them to put in the good word with the president, 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.240 sending tweets out to everybody he can think of. So 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.800 that's the type of full court press that you know, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.120 all sorts of federal prisoners are are undertaking these days 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.280 in the in the waning days of the Trump administration, David, 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:39.880 I have to say, what I love about this story 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:41.720 or what I kind of scratched my head about, is like, 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.199 what is the process actually for for giving out pardons? 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.440 And to be fair, um, a lot of pardons were 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.160 given out during the Obama administration, the George W. Bush, 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.880 I mean a little perspective in terms of what we're seeing. 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:55.800 It feels like a lot from Trump, But we've seen 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.080 this before in other administrations. Correct sure. In fact, if 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.080 you look at the numbers, has actually issued way fewer 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.240 pardons and communications than than previous presidents. The difference is 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:10.079 that the clemency grants that Trump is giving out or 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.520 going to people who are politically connected or able to 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.840 get his attention through lobbying, rather than to people who 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.480 have applied to the Justice Department, had their petitions vetted 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.720 by government lawyers and sort of gone through that bureaucratic 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.560 process which is designed to basically, um, you know, figure 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.839 out who's sort of most most deserving of clemency. And 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.720 no doubt there were there were major problems with that. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.520 Well from this is the other thing that's scratching my head, 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.560 but I thought there was a process like you had 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.559 to kind of check certain boxes before it could even 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.679 be considered. But obviously the president um has gone around that. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.720 I mean, are there any kind of really rules and 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.120 standards for this or is there a lot of you know, 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.000 is there criteria or is there a lot of wiggle 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:55.480 room here? So the the official, the official processes. You're 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.520 a federal prisoner, you apply for clemency to the Justice Department. 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.960 The Office of the Pardon Attorney evaluates your clemency petition, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.320 gets in touch with the judge who sentenced you, with 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.160 the prosecutor who prosecuted you, and makes the determination, you know, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.720 should we recommend you for for clemency. The Pardon Office 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.120 will look at a lot of different criteria including, you know, 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:19.440 behavior in UM during the time that you've been in prison, UM, 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.760 you know, whether you've expressed remorse for the crimes that 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.959 you committed, a whole wide set of criteria like that. 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.719 Then the Pardon Office makes a recommendation to high ups 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.360 in the Justice Department who sort of vet the files 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.160 and decide which ones they're going to send over to 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.720 the White House for the President to make it make 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.839 a decision on whether to grant clemoncy. That's the way 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.080 that the process is traditionally worked. What what Trump has 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.840 done is basically cut the Justice Department out of the equation, 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.880 established a kind of a white head sort of informal 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:50.040 White House panel that takes recommendations from anybody and everybody. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.120 You know. Kim Kardashian of course, famously was able to 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.720 successfully lobby the President to pardon somebody whose case she 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.360 was interested in, UM and so so really the abbying 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.920 is like focused directly at the White House now, and 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.520 that kind of standard process of the Justice Department has 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.760 been kind of cast aside and to be clear, this 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:14.160 is totally legal. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, the president. There 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.720 are there are very few limits on the president's pardon power. 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.559 It's not a it's not a requirement that he only 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.160 pardoned people who have been vetted by the Justice Department. 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.880 It's just that's that's the norm of how it's worked 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.640 for decades in Washington. And there are isolated examples of 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.960 other presidents circumventing that that process. Um. But but Trump 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.679 is really the first president in living memory who has 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.640 kind of systematically undermined it, um and abandoned any sort 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.920 of pretense of kind of fairness and uhpends your vigorous 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.880 bureaucratic review. Okay, So what's the latest on pardons for 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.120 family members, for himself, um and for for you know, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.120 other people who are close to the president and the 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:55.920 president's administration. Is that still possible? Um, it's certainly still possible. Albums. 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.280 He'll have the power to do it until his term 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.600 ends on January. UM. There's obviously been a lot of 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.120 speculation about the prospect that he could issue preemptive pardons 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.199 to his children, to Jared Kushner, which would basically say, 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.120 you know this, this person is shielded from any future 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.800 criminal charges at the federal level that might be brought 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.320 against them. Um, there's a whole legal debate about whether 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.800 it's actually constitutional for the president to pardon himself. Um, 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.680 that question is sort of unsettled legally. The Supreme Court 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.240 has never had the chance to weigh in on it. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.840 So it's something that Trump could do, and it's something 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:33.120 that would only get overturned if if federal prosecutors actually 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.800 brought charges against him after he leaves office, which is unlikely. UM, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.160 So you know, we're kind of in an uncertain phase 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.720 now where it's not clear whether he's going to issue 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.240 those pardons. There's certainly a chance that he might, and 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.960 whether the whole up in court afterwards is sort of 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:53.000 another questions, just another um level chapter. Well, I just 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:58.240 wonder how this change is precedent for presidents moving forward, right, Like, yeah, yeah, 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.800 will it David, Well, I mean, that's a that's a 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.480 that's a difficult question to answer. I mean, of course, 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:08.960 the fear from people who really value the traditional norms 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.680 of Washington and the traditional process for um, granting clemency 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.080 to prisoners, fear that you know, this will give a 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.000 license to future presidents to deviate from that that process 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.520 in alternative ways. But you know, there's no guarantee of that. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.200 I mean the expectations that Joe Biden will revert something 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.480 similar to that kind of traditional process that I outlined earlier, 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.760 in which the Justice part and evaluates petitions and makes 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.600 recommendations to the White House. Um. But you know, I 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.240 mean that that process had its own flaws, and what 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.720 this could also do is create an opportunity for Biden 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.960 or for future presidents to sort of rejigger the process 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.760 in ways that don't kind of corrupt it with relentless lobbying, 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.840 but make it move faster and allow more deserving people 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.320 to receive clemency. Yeah, I don't know that this is 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.320 like one of those things I pull out a bottle 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.560 of wine, have a great debate with your friends over 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.000 presidential parts, because part of me is like, I just 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.240 don't quite get it, why we need it. And then 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.520 you know, I've done some reading on the history of it, 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.680 and it's you know, initially for people who you know, 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.640 guys who committed treason, So that to me sounds egregious 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.120 to do we partner not necessarily your son in law's dad. 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.960 It's what you're saying. Yeah, there's that too, Like it 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.240 just feels like, do we need to have a presidential pardon. 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.640 I'm not quite sure that you know of it. I 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.280 guess I understand it. Maybe I don't know, but um, 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.320 like I said, good, maybe a couple bottles of wine 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.720 then you have a good debate. David, Thank you so much. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.240 David Yaffie Bellini, legal reporter or Bloomberg News on the 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.200 phone from Washington, d C. Do you think they make sense? 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.520 I think it's antiquated. Yeah, I do too. I think 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.840 I think our forefathers were like, listen, you know, at 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.200 some point you folks have to like look at these 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.000 rules and get rid of someone. There's no check on it, 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.280 and that's the thing. Yeah, it's very it seems very 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.840 like it's from a monarchy or something. Yeah, I agree 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.440 with you, all right, I'm with you on that one. 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:53.680 All Right, we'll see if we get any kind of 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.040 feedback on that. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.600 Messer from Bloomberg Radio. So it's already one for the 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.040 record books, record turnout for a runoff, our can amount 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.560 of money raised for the congressional races. Of course, Tim 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.760 we're talking about the Georgia Senate runoff races happening as 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.400 we speak today today, Like we're finally got here, right, 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:16.680 finally finally and we know so much really hinges off 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.440 of the outcome of these races. Yeah, Look, it's all 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.760 about how much power President Biden and the Biden administration has. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.360 It has implications for Americans when it comes to stimulus 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.960 and the economic recovery to the coronavirus pandemic. It'll stay 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.600 with us for a long time. So let's get into 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:32.359 it and find out what's going on. Our team covering 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.480 it is Bloomberg Government reporter Emily Wilkins on the ground 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:40.080 in Atlanta, Georgia. Bloomberg News national political correspondent Gregory Cordy. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.800 He's on the phone in Washington. D c Um, Emily, 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.240 let's kick it off with you. What are you seeing? 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.600 What's the turnout look like? What are you hearing when 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.160 it comes to maybe the early count versus the later 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.320 count phill Us in So we just left the phone 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.360 in place, and I talked to one of the workers 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.720 there and she said, that's the number of people that 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.360 she seeing today for the rob is about the same 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.440 as what she saw in November for the general election. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.720 As you mentioned, we did see more than three million 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.360 people go ahead and vote in early voting, So we're 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.120 not seeing giant lines today at this point. In fact, 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.720 one of George's top election officials said that from his data, 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.560 the laytime for most polling places was under a single minute, 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.680 So there seems to be uh people are moving through 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.160 the system today. Doesn't seem to be too too many 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.280 major delays that we've heard about at this point. So far, 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.080 so good. It sounds like I'm Emily, what about when 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.160 it comes to results. When do you think we'll start 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:37.600 to see results? So the poets closed at seven pm. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.960 That's when votes are going to begin to be counted. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.080 As we see things come in, We're going to be 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.840 doing in person votes first. Those are expected to uh 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.800 plant in favor of the Republicans. So at the end 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.000 of the night it might look like the two Republicans 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.840 David Fordue and Kelly Leffler are upposite bit on their 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.479 Democratic opponents. But when the absentee bells begin to get counted, 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.040 we expect that margin to narrow pretty sign sacntly. Although 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.159 we're not going to as but we don't expect to 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.160 call a winner tonight. We're hoping that we can call 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.919 one within the next traveled days. We're not expecting to 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.159 have to wait the ten days that we had to 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:14.760 wait for Georgia to be called for the November three election. Gregory, 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:16.359 I want to bring you in here and talk about 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.880 implications of this, uh, not just for for Americans, but 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.679 but also for President Biden when he becomes president in 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.840 just a couple of weeks. How important is this race 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.520 in Georgia to the Biden administration. Yeah, this is a 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.440 really extraordinary circumstance because you know, we have runoff races, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.560 especially in the South. Law of southern states do it 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.879 if neither Canada gets a majority in the general election. 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.840 But never before in history we had two Senate races 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.359 from the same state, both up for grabs. And not 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:51.679 only that, but these races will decide control of the Senate. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.520 Now that the Democrats have a little bit more of 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.320 an uptill crime here because they have to elect both 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.119 Rapiel Warnock and John ass Off to get it to 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.000 essentially a fifty fifty tie in the Senate. And then 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:09.080 only then can the Vice president elect Kamala Harris when 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:13.920 she's sworn in cast the tiebreaking vote in favor of Democrats, 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.880 and that will really, uh have a big impact on 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.440 how Joe Biden approaches the first one days of his presidency. 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.679 If he has the majority, you can afford to look 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:29.119 for some of the bigger, broader, bolder proposals that he 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.119 outlined the campaign, things like repealing the Trump tax cuts, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:37.040 raising them animum wage a something that resembles uh, but 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.639 it's not exactly the Green New Deal. UH. As far 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.400 as environmental legislation, if he doesn't have control of the Senate, 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.680 then he's got to look to things like infrastructure, COVID relief, 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:52.840 cyber security, maybe criminal justice. UH. And so it'll be 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.400 a much more moderate agenda because I'll have to look 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.480 for Republican votes. It's also gregory, you know, might delay 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.159 the process us of things, including you know, Biden's nominations 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.159 for cabinet positions. I mean, it could just you know, 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.200 if it ultimately ends up with the Republicans in control 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.640 of this and it just could slow this process down. Yeah, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.480 there's still a lot of really sore feelings, especially among Republicans, 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:20.880 about how some of President Trump's nominees were treated. UH. 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.280 And a lot of his nominees. You know, I'm thinking 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:27.439 of Education Secretary Bepsy divoce Uh Mike Penns had to 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.719 cast the tie breaking vote to get her confirmed. And 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.920 so if that trend continues and a lot of Joe 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.800