1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. Fourteen years later, 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: it's still difficult to imagine oneself on either side of 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: this tragic coin. Whether you lost your loved ones to murder, 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: or you also believed your loved one had been wrongfully 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: convicted of those murders, there would be pain, anger, and bitterness. 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: As reporter Erica Worst aptly put it, no. 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: One's gonna get what they want, which is their loved 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: one's beast. 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: Here's Gale Vaughan. 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 3: I got a phone call about noon, a personal phone 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 3: call from a lady from the Sun Times, I believe, 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 3: and she was interviewing me on how Kim intermingled with 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 3: the family. And it was like, well, where did this 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 3: call comes from? And she says, oh, didn't you hear 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 3: they were killed? And it was like turned on the news, 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: so yeah. I told her I couldn't talk any longer, 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 3: and I went to the TV and I called my husband. 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 3: I was just I was going to sixty directions, but 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 3: I wasn't going anywhere. It was just I didn't know 20 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 3: how to react. I just sat on the floor for 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: a few minutes and just and so my sister came 22 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: up from downstairs where she's been staying, and she says, 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 3: what are you doing sting on the phone. I says, 24 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 3: my fail has been killed. 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 4: Jale called me after the reporter called her. She told 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 4: me that there was one survivor. 27 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 5: She didn't know who it was. 28 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 4: So I tried calling Chris a couple times on his phone, 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 4: tried calling Kim on her phone, leave once, and I 30 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 4: tracked down his office number and talked to them. Finally 31 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 4: I had somebody tell me, no, he did not. 32 00:01:58,280 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 5: Show for work that day. 33 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 4: As far as they know, he had took taken a 34 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 4: vacation day. 35 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: Pierre immediately began to feel a mixture of fear and panic. 36 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 4: I thought somebody had to do this to them. I 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 4: didn't believe it was within the family, and I was 38 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 4: very angry, and my mind was racing about one hundred 39 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 4: miles a minute because I was at work. I just 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 4: kept calling back and forth, and I finally called gailback 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 4: and said, I cannot get a hold of it. Well, 42 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 4: she called me back not too long after that, and 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 4: evidently missus Phillips had called her and asked her if 44 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 4: she's seen the news, and missus Phillips told her that 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 4: it was Chris and Kim's truck, and Kimberly was in 46 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 4: the front seat and the children in the back, and 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 4: they believed them all to be he dead. 48 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Brt Pacheco and this is murdering Allinois. 49 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 6: Hey, no face food you baby faced the king? Bye 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 6: all be f. 51 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 7: You came to. 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 6: Distrushed for had been she. 53 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 8: A brock came. 54 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 6: Bye? You did jack you. 55 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: The Vaughn family had loaded into their suv and left 56 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: their oswe Go home before four forty five am. At 57 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: approximately five point fifteen am, a passing motorists would stop 58 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: to render assistance to Christopher Vaughan, who was found limping 59 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: along the frontage road of Interstate fifty five. He'd been 60 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: shot twice. Ten minutes later, our first responders would find 61 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: the rest of his family inside their suv. Like Vaughn, 62 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: each of the three children had been shot twice. The 63 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: body of their mother, Kimberly Vaughan, was slumped in the 64 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: passenger seat, a single gunshot wound under her chin and 65 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: a nine millimeter Torus handgun at her feet. Almost immediately, 66 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: the scene of the murders would be broadcast as breaking 67 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: and heartbreaking news. Gail's sister Rose vividly remembers that fateful morning. 68 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 2: Yep, because we have a large property. I at the 69 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: time had commercial greenhouses on her property. I was working 70 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: outside and I just came out of the barn and 71 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: my brother called me and told me. I came in 72 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: the house, and of course. 73 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 8: It was all over TV. 74 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 9: Their bodies were found in the family vehicle parked near 75 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 9: I fifty five, on a narrow path near a cell 76 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 9: phone tower. 77 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 10: His thirty four year old wife, Kimberley, along with their 78 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 10: twelve year old daughter Abigail, eleven year old daughter Cassandra, 79 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 10: and eight year old son Blake, were found dead in 80 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 10: their suv that was parked on a frontage road just 81 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 10: west of Interstate fifty five in Shanahan. 82 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: Did you jump to any conclusions or did you assume 83 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: that it must have been a robbery? What were your 84 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: initial thoughts? 85 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 9: Do you remember if I wouldn't have seen their car 86 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 9: on TV, I wouldn't have expected it to be true. 87 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 8: It was crazy. I had no idea. I literally had 88 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 8: no idea, because of. 89 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 9: Course with the TV, they don't tell you anything, and 90 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 9: if they do, you can't always believe anything they say. 91 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 8: So I was just waiting to. 92 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 9: Talk to my sister again, which we kept in contact 93 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 9: to see exactly what the next step was, what we 94 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 9: need to to do. 95 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: I spoke to both of Chris's brothers, and nearly fifteen 96 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: years later, they both still remember the exact moment they 97 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: heard the details of the news. Here's Adam Bond. 98 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 11: At the time, I was based in Junction City, Kansas, 99 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 11: working for a small biotech company. I got a call 100 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 11: on my cell phone from my parents' number. 101 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 5: They called in and let. 102 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 11: Me know that there had been an accident and that 103 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 11: they didn't have all the details yet. 104 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 4: I I. 105 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 11: Want to say that the initial story was that an 106 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 11: unknown shooter had attacked them while they were pulled over 107 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 11: on the side of the road or something, and it 108 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 11: just all kind of spiraled from there, and I was 109 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 11: able to quickly find some pictures online that were just disturbing. 110 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 11: The one that most vividly burned its image into my 111 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 11: memory was an aerial shot from I assume a helicopter 112 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 11: that was actually from an angle such that you could 113 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 11: see Kimberly's form lying over in. 114 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 8: The front seat. 115 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: Eric saw similar photos, and like his brother, Adam, was 116 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: in utter disbelief over the images. 117 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 12: My dad called and told me to turn on the news, 118 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 12: so I pulled it up on my computer. It was 119 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 12: aerial helicopter footage of a wooded area with Chris and 120 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 12: Kim's maroon Ford expedition. Headlines were already flying at that 121 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 12: point in time, when it had just happened hours prior 122 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 12: to that. I was really confused. I really kind of 123 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 12: disbelief that something like that what was happening, or it 124 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 12: had happened. It definitely set me back on my rear. 125 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 12: I sat there and watched the footage and tried getting 126 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 12: a hold of my mom. Once the picture started popping 127 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 12: up on the news and everything, and my parents were 128 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 12: able to figure out where Chris was at, they got 129 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 12: in the truck and got up there to take care 130 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 12: of him. 131 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: Pierre picks it up from here. 132 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 4: We tried getting a hold of the state police and 133 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 4: everything like that, which we're totally uncooperative. Finally, after after 134 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 4: all afternoon to pacing back and forth, I decided let's go, 135 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 4: we'll go physically finding. So we spent the next five 136 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 4: and a half six hours driving up there and finally 137 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 4: tracking down a little state police station there. 138 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 8: Here's Gale's take after many calls to the police made 139 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 8: by myself and my husband, we received no answers. Discontinued 140 00:08:54,559 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 8: throughout the morning and afternoon. June fourteenth, thirty pm, my 141 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 8: husband and I decided to go to the State Police 142 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 8: District five headquarters in Joliet. 143 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: Gaiale and Pierre made that long drive with only one 144 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: goal in mind to find to their son. Other than 145 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: the location of the police station where Chris was being questioned, 146 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: they still had no real information. 147 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 8: Ten thirty at night, we arrived at the State Police 148 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 8: headquarters asking to see Chris. 149 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: They had no idea to the extent to which he 150 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: was hurt or what kind of state. 151 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 11: He was in. 152 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 3: And we went in and we told him the situation 153 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: and they said, sure, have a seat, and we sat 154 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 3: there for a couple of hours, and then we never 155 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: put in a room and it was recorded, and they 156 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,599 Speaker 3: went through questions and everything, and each time, you know, 157 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 3: we keep asking how is Chris, Where is Chris, And 158 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: they said, well, he's here, but he's unavailable right now. 159 00:09:58,440 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 3: That was our first indication. 160 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: Gale and Pierre still hadn't spoken to their son or 161 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: been given any official information about what had occurred. For 162 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: Kimberly's family, things have been quite a bit different, and 163 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: a lawyer, David Bush, was already speaking on behalf of 164 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: the Phillips. 165 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 3: I think he was just a family friend. I'm not 166 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 3: sure how it came to be, but anyway, he seemed 167 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: to handle all the interviews throughout and he spoke for 168 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 3: the Phillips, and he is where I got the information 169 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: that the police had got into the Phillips home within 170 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 3: two hours of this incident, that eight o'clock in the morning, 171 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 3: eight thirty, and that grief counselor was on site. 172 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: To reiterate. The Phillips were informed within hours of the 173 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: tragedy by officers with the grief counselor in tel The 174 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: Vonds found out through the press. Looking back, this seems 175 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: to set the tone for how the public and law 176 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: enforcement would view the crime from the beginning, foreshadowing the 177 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: way they would both deal with Christopher's versus Kimberly's family. 178 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 8: We were told that Chris was not a suspect and 179 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 8: was helping the police try to make sense of what happened. 180 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 8: They did not want to disturb him at this time. 181 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: We would have to wait, and so they waited at 182 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: the station, hoping for any information they could get about 183 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: their son. Finally, an officer was willing to speak to them. 184 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 4: First of all, they didn't even want to let us in. 185 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 4: Then when we told them who we were, then a 186 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 4: couple police officers came out and talked to us a 187 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 4: little bit and they said, well, you can't see right now, 188 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 4: we're questioning him in this and the other thing. And 189 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 4: we asked him if he's been hurt, and he says, yes, 190 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 4: he was shot also, and he was staying a hospital 191 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 4: and treated, but he didn't have life threatening wounds. They 192 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 4: made us wait in the waiting room for a while, 193 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 4: and then then they come back out and they said, 194 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 4: can we talk to you, And they took us in 195 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 4: a closed room and talked to us and started asking 196 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 4: us all sorts of questions. 197 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 5: And I said, is he'd be in charge? Is to 198 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 5: be in charge? 199 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 4: And they said no, we's not being charge. And I said, well, 200 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 4: then we need to take him home. And then they said, 201 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 4: well no, he waved his right to an attorney, so 202 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 4: we got to finish question him. But at the time 203 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 4: he waved his right to an attorney, they had told 204 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 4: him the rest of his family it was dead. 205 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 8: We were then greeted by some plain clothes officers and 206 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 8: ushered into our room. Richard Mullen began asking us questions, 207 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,719 Speaker 8: not really answering any of our questions. The interview with 208 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 8: us ended and our Chris was still not available. We 209 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 8: were assured by Agent Mullen that Christopher knew we were 210 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 8: there and our cell phone number would be given to him. 211 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 8: Christopher would give us a call when he was finished 212 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 8: answering questions because he would need a ride home. Again, 213 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 8: we were told Chris was free to go at any time. 214 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 4: He was not a suspect. 215 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: So this is what Pierre and Gale were left with. 216 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: They now knew Chris had gunshot wounds and that he'd 217 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: waived his right to an attorney, and they believed, at 218 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: least at the time, he'd seemingly not been made aware 219 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: of the fate of his wife and children. 220 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 4: All we were doing is pressing them to see and 221 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 4: talk to Chris. And we said, okay, well we'll just 222 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 4: sit in the waiting room. The name midnight or so. 223 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 8: Then. 224 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 12: Look, you can't sit here and wait, so we don't 225 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 12: know how long it's going to be. 226 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 8: We left the police station at one ten in the morning, 227 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 8: so look for a hotel. After asking the police where 228 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 8: a hotel could be found, because we weren't familiar with 229 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 8: this area, no call came from Christopher. 230 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: By the morning, they'd still not heard anything from Christopher 231 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: or the police. 232 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 8: Friday, June fifteenth, we checked out the hotel, We went 233 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 8: through a fast food restaurant. We went back to the 234 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 8: state police headquarters in Juliette. We were told Chris had 235 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 8: asked to leave about two am. The police had called 236 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 8: Chris a cab. The police said they had no idea 237 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 8: where he had gone. We drove back to Chris and 238 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 8: Kim's house in Oswego, Illinois. 239 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: Gall and Pierre thought that Chris's first instinct might have 240 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: been to try to return home, so that's where they headed. 241 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: A media circus was already building. 242 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 8: There were many many reporters and news trucks were in 243 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 8: the cul de sac in front of Chris and Kim's house. 244 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 8: We parked in a driveway to the right of Chris's house, 245 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 8: pere ring the doorbell knock, peered inside. The house was dark. 246 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 8: No one was home at Chris's. 247 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 13: Where met by reporters there and you know, they, you know, 248 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 13: wanted to know the reporters wanted to know. 249 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 4: Right out the bat why. 250 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 3: Chris killed his family. 251 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 4: That was their first question, you know, and and where 252 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 4: is he at? I don't know where he's at. 253 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 8: Your reporters, do your. 254 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 13: Job, find out where he's at, and maybe you can 255 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 13: tell us. 256 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: And I got in the car and left. 257 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: At this point, Gallumpierre still had no word from Chris 258 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: or the police. They desperately wanted to locate their son, 259 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: and on top of it all, they were still processing 260 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: the fact that their daughter in law and grandchildren were dead. 261 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: There was grief and frustration and confusion all at once. 262 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 8: It it was really surreal. I couldn't believe this had happened. 263 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 8: I hadn't really talked to anybody to get the details 264 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 8: on what had happened. How did this happen, Why did 265 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 8: this happen? Who did this? I mean, these thoughts were 266 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 8: going through our minds and we were trying to think 267 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 8: of what happened. And it didn't really sink in that 268 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 8: they were gone yet. But now we did talk to 269 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 8: the police and they said, yes, we are interviewing Chris. 270 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 8: So that answered the question of before we're dead and 271 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 8: one was alive. So we wanted to be with Chris. 272 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 8: We wanted to get to Chris as soon as we could, 273 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 8: and for some reason, the police we're not helping. 274 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 14: Us do this. 275 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: That reason would soon become clear, but the Vaughans were 276 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: simply left to search for their son. 277 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 8: We didn't know what in the condition he was in. 278 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 8: He did sustain two gun wounds, we didn't know where. 279 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 8: We knew he wasn't dead, and he was walking around, 280 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 8: so it couldn't have been life threatening. But the imagination 281 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 8: is a terrible thing when you are near a traumatic incident. 282 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 8: So Pierre and I drove away from the media circus 283 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 8: from Chris's house and pulled into the clubhouse parking area 284 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 8: in the front by the pool. We again called the 285 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 8: state police to see if they could trace the cab 286 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 8: that they had called for Chris, and to find out 287 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 8: where they had dropped Chris at. The police called back 288 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 8: Chris had been dropped up at the Fairfield Inn, just 289 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 8: off Route thirty back in Joliet. 290 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 11: We were now in. 291 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 8: Northwego, so we drove to the Fairfield Inn and there 292 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 8: was no Christopher. 293 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 4: But yeah, I remember, he's in an open hospital gown 294 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 4: with a pair of underwear on and hospital booties and 295 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 4: he's you knows Riss's bandage, his legs bandaged, and you 296 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 4: know they hadn't changed the bandage since the hospital treatedy 297 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 4: and that nine. 298 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 5: In the morning. 299 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: They'd later find out that shortly after telling the bonds 300 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: to leave, the police put Chris Vaughn in a cab 301 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: alone without a phone, at one forty a m. He 302 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: wasn't told his parents had actually been at the station, 303 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: and they knew that you were in town. They knew 304 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,719 Speaker 1: that you had begged to see him. They you had 305 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,959 Speaker 1: given them your cell phone, and they just put him 306 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: out on the street. 307 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 5: They called him a cab and. 308 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 4: I guess he had his wallet or a credit card 309 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 4: with you or whatever, but yeah, they put they get 310 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 4: he got a cab and they told the cab driver 311 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 4: take him to a hotel, and he went through three 312 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 4: or four hotels before you know, because he come walking 313 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 4: in in the hospital gown and with the bloody leg 314 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 4: and they're not going to exactly take you in. 315 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: You'll recall that police claimed Chris was dropped at a 316 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: Fairfield end, but Gail and Pierre found him at a 317 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: motel eight. 318 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 8: We asked Chris why he had been in the Motel eight. 319 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 8: When the cab dropped him at the Fairfield. His reply 320 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 8: was that Hotel eight was the only one out of 321 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 8: three that would let him have a room, seeing the 322 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 8: way he was dressed. So this meant that the tab 323 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 8: dropped him off the Fairfield and he walked in and 324 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 8: they turned him away. He walked into the next one 325 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 8: they turned him away, and the Motel eight was the 326 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 8: only one that allowed him to get a room. 327 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 4: He told the guy he paid him double them to 328 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 4: stay in the room, so he went in there and crash. 329 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: Gall and Pierre were finally able to locate their son 330 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: at the motel. 331 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 8: We hugged him. He appeared to be in a state 332 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 8: of shock. His skin was cold and clammy. There there 333 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 8: was very little color in his face. His eyes were 334 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 8: blazed and dark. It was like his pupils were dilated. 335 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 8: They his eyes just weren't. I mean, he was wearing 336 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 8: two hospital gowns, underwear, and hospital booties when we found him. 337 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 8: The gauze from his leg wound was loose and bloody. 338 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 8: We went back into the hotel room the Motel eight 339 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 8: and I left Pierre with Christopher and I immediately went 340 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 8: to the store to buy his clothes, shoes, and bandages. 341 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 8: Pierre sat there. They sat in the dark. Chris said 342 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 8: he didn't on any lights all. I mean, he just 343 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 8: he was hiding. He didn't know what to do. His 344 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 8: world had collapsed. So Pierre sat with Chris. He hugged Chris. 345 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 8: They really did not speak at this point. Ollie did well. 346 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 8: Pierre did was just shold him. Pierre did not push 347 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 8: for answers at this time because Chris was in a daze, 348 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 8: quite a bit. 349 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 4: Of shock, you know, to see your your son living 350 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 4: and bloody bandages and at the time he had long hair, 351 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 4: and it was it was just fuddled. It was all 352 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 4: over the place, and he was he was ghost white, pale, 353 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 4: and dark circles around his eyes, and he just yeah, 354 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 4: it was a bad scene. 355 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: Pierre sat with his son, watching him try to process 356 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: what had happened, while also dealing with his own emotions 357 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: as a father and grandfather. 358 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 5: And I stayed there and talked with him, and in 359 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 5: he just one word answers. 360 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 4: Then he finally he asked me. He says, he says, 361 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 4: they told me my Kim and the kids are dead 362 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 4: and they're gone. And I says yeah, And I says 363 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 4: that's what they told us too. And he says, he all, 364 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 4: it's a long time. He says, well, he says, everything's gone. 365 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 4: Then he'sas, I have no reason to continue, no reason 366 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 4: to have a house job. 367 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 5: You know, my family's gone. 368 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 4: I have nothing. 369 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 5: So at that moment, he was, he was at rock bottom. 370 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: As we've stated in previous episodes, Chris had a parent 371 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: gaps in his memory in regard to the sequence of events, 372 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: which fostered almost immediate suspicion among the investigators. His parents 373 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: attributed his demeanor to the stress and shock of what 374 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: he'd just experienced. Gail and Pierre shifted their focus to 375 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: taking care of their son. As support of parents. 376 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 8: Tierre talked to Chris about his physical wounds and just 377 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 8: mostly sat in silence, just being there with him. I 378 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 8: returned with clothes, flip flops, and moon clean cleaners and bandages, 379 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 8: and we washed Chris up, helped him put on his clothes. 380 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 8: We assisted him in changing his bandages on his left 381 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 8: wrist and left thigh. We left Motel eight and went 382 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 8: back to Target to fill up prescription for antibiotics. He 383 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 8: had received a script from the emergency room. When the 384 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 8: prescription was filled, we left. We found a restaurant starving 385 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 8: breakfast as well as lunch. We ordered, but not much 386 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 8: was he eaten. We checked into a Holiday Express Saturday 387 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 8: and watched TV together, not really seeing what was on 388 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 8: the screen. 389 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: You will find multiple incidences of Chrispond's allegedly self inflicted 390 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: bullet wounds to his left wrist and leg, described as 391 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: superficial injuries. His parents disagree. 392 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 13: His wrist was probably the least one because we thought 393 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 13: possibly the bullet had ricocheted off of the bend of 394 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 13: his watch that he had, so it just kind of 395 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 13: skittered down his skin. Yeah, it didn't go through his wrist, No, 396 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 13: it went perpendicular to his wrist and his bone stuff 397 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 13: like that, and made a nice gash in there. 398 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 4: Now, his wound to his leg. 399 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 3: That was a different matter. 400 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 12: That's different matter, because that was a true and true wound. 401 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 13: Luckily it went on the outside of the bone instead 402 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 13: of inside of the Who had gone on the inside 403 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 13: of the bone, it would have. 404 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 3: Hit the main artery and he wouldn't be here to day. 405 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 13: But it went through and through on the left side, 406 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 13: come out the backside of the sky. And sometime during 407 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 13: the week between that and the funeral. I took him 408 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 13: into a doctor and the doctor pulled thirty six inches 409 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 13: of gauze out of the wound hole they had packed 410 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 13: a pull of gauze. 411 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: Christopher Vaughan was wounded, had lost his entire family, and 412 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: according to the law, was supposed to have had the 413 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: presumption of innocence. 414 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 3: He just had a glassy stare and stared off in space, 415 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 3: and but he was with us, so you know, as 416 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 3: long as he was with us, that was okay. We 417 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 3: went back to the hotel, he went in for another 418 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: interrogation talk, and then the next day he went in again, 419 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 3: and after that we headed back to Saint Louis, Missouri. 420 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 13: Home. 421 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: There are many key and controversial moments of the initial interrogations, 422 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: but at the time Gale and Pierre had no idea 423 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: to the extent of the questioning Chris had endured until 424 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: later when they viewed the tapes, which they've shared with us. 425 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: Pierre Vaughan believes the aggressiveness of the interrogation was meant 426 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: to serve a very specific purpose. 427 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 5: To break him down even further. 428 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 4: It's kind of like boot camp in the military. They 429 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 4: were you out so bad that you submit to their orders, 430 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 4: and I think that's. 431 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 6: What they did. 432 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 4: I mean, when you questioned a guy from ten o'clock 433 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 4: in the morning till two o'clock the next morning, eighteen 434 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 4: hours or whatever it was, twenty hours of questioning, you 435 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 4: know you're going to break down his resistance, and that's 436 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 4: what they tried to do. But according to the transcripts 437 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 4: of the police tapes, he never did. That was never 438 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 4: presented at the trial. 439 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: Here are some of the excerpts of the questioning of 440 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: Vaughn after the shootings, while he was still clad in 441 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: a hospital gown and bleeding. 442 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 4: I don't remember. I got in, and I don't know. 443 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 15: I don't even know if I was putting my seatbelt 444 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 15: on or what. And then once I saw my leg, 445 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 15: I don't know. I think I stopped thinking. Did you 446 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 15: see a gun in your hand? I don't even remember 447 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 15: seeing her. 448 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 3: I just got in, and. 449 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 15: I don't remember I remember even looking around, but that 450 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 15: I just I. 451 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 11: Just got out. 452 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 16: Do you remember something else you told me that happened 453 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 16: that you did or you said after you felt any 454 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 16: the the the injury to your life. 455 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 15: So that was where I go for help, Okay, do 456 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,959 Speaker 15: you remember you saying that? Not particularly but I remember, 457 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 15: I don't. I don't know if I said it or 458 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 15: if I meant to say it, but that was where 459 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 15: I was headed. 460 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 4: Mkay. 461 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 16: But you said you said it to her, Okay, I 462 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 16: I'm I'm only telling you. I'm repeating back to you what. 463 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 13: You told me. 464 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 4: Well, you guys asked exactly how. I don't remember if 465 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 4: I said, CANIM long for help? I'm longing for help? 466 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 4: I I don't remember other than I'm going for help. 467 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 17: Did you say it the way you're talking now? Real solve? 468 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 4: Like a little girl? 469 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: Talk up here? Again? Is Pierre Vaughan, Well, you'd have to. 470 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 4: Look at the beginning of the tape when he they 471 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 4: first run Hi back from the hospital and they started 472 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 4: talking to him and everything like that. They were asking 473 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 4: him questions and he was kind of in shocked because 474 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 4: he'd been shot. He kept asking, where's Kim, where's the kids? 475 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 4: Where's Kim, where's the kids? And they wouldn't tell him. 476 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 4: They wouldn't tell him, And that went on for quite 477 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 4: a while. So finally they told him. You know, he 478 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 4: told him, he said, well, unless you tell me where 479 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 4: Kim the kids are, I'm not going to talk to 480 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 4: you anymore. So that's when, you know, the nice policeman 481 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 4: said you killed all your family. They're dead, And then 482 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 4: they laid out the pictures and he said, no, that's 483 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 4: that's not true. You know, he says they're not dead, 484 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 4: and he as they are, and they kept pushing the 485 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 4: picture back and in front of him and you know, 486 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 4: accusing him of doing it. 487 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: As a side note, during that interrogation, Chris could have 488 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: blamed his wife, but he didn't, pulling and over and over. 489 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 14: And over. 490 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 13: All. 491 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 15: The thing I can think of is it Kim somehow? 492 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 15: Oh my god, And there's there's snowy around and. 493 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 4: So, Okay, I don't. 494 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 8: Know. 495 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 17: I don't think she's killed all of that. 496 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 4: Okay. 497 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: Something private investigator Bill Clutter pointed out during one of 498 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: our interviews. 499 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 14: As I started going through the transcripts of those interviews, 500 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 14: I was being able to see there were a number 501 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 14: of times when the detectives would try to get Chris 502 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 14: to point the finger it Kimberly for having done this, 503 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 14: and he just was reluctant to go there. When he 504 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 14: was given the opportunity to blame his wife, he defended 505 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 14: her and just found it impossible to believe that she 506 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 14: would kill her own children. So if this is a 507 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 14: person that had staged all this with the intent of 508 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 14: leading the police to believe that his wife had committed 509 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 14: this as a murder suicide, I mean, detectives gave him 510 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 14: every opportunity to bite on that, and he just never did. 511 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 17: Why do you think she would shoe shoot? 512 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 15: I can't imagine why she would do I can't imagine 513 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 15: her doing that. 514 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 4: I don't know, I. 515 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 5: Mean knew he had her words the night. 516 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 4: Before, and she still didn't know about the weekend. 517 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 15: I had no idea, I mean name, we had, we had. 518 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: Plans all summer, Bill had. Doctor Terry Killian, a forensic psychiatrist, 519 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: examined the footage of the entire interrogation. His professional opinion 520 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: was that Chris exhibited signs of dissociative amnesia, which would 521 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: have been difficult to fake. Despite their attempts to break 522 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: Chris down over the duration of the police interview, he 523 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: stuck to the story that he could not remember, and 524 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: the police stuck to their narrative. 525 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 17: Tell me you're a lucky guy. Out of here, tell 526 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 17: me you're a lucky guy. Say I'm a lucky guy 527 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 17: because I didn't die today. 528 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 4: I don't think that's true. 529 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 17: You're a lucky guy, Chris. You didn't die today. Guess 530 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 17: what you're gonna live? Things being here ain't here? 531 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 9: No more? 532 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 17: Gone, Dad, your kids? What's her name? This is Sandy? 533 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 17: How would a say? Is this the way you remember 534 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 17: Sandy looking this morning? Did she look just like this? 535 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 17: What did she look like? Her hair was shorter? How 536 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 17: else was it? What did she look like when she died? 537 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 17: What do you think she looked like when she died? 538 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 17: How about Abigail? What does she look like? Did she 539 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 17: look like this? Did she look like this before she 540 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 17: died today? Did she What do you think did she 541 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 17: have that same look on her face when she died today? 542 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 17: Is that the way she looked? You can't say? How 543 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 17: about Blake. 544 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 3: Looks just like you? 545 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 7: Did he look like that today when you killed him? 546 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 7: Did you kill him? Did you kill Blake? Did you 547 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 7: kill your wife? Did you kill anybody? But they're all dead? 548 00:33:59,800 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 13: Right? 549 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 8: What you said? 550 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 17: That's what I'm telling you happened. They're all dead. They're 551 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 17: not here, but lucky Chris is still here. Not so lucky, 552 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 17: not so lucky? 553 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 6: Why not? 554 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 17: Why aren't you so lucky? Everything that everything you live for? 555 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 17: And it's gone. But guess what, you're still here. That's 556 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 17: pretty lucky. 557 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: Here again is Pierre. 558 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 5: Finally he pushed the pictures away and he shut down. 559 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 4: I mean, he he would just keep denying that he 560 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 4: killed them, and that he'd answer the questions and tell 561 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 4: them he told him, he says. You know, after we 562 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 4: pulled off on the road, he says, I got out 563 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 4: to check check the truck, and he says after that, 564 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 4: he says, I do not remember anything. He says, the 565 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 4: next thing I remember is that I'm walking along the 566 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 4: road and the guy taps me on the shoulder. And 567 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 4: please wouldn't accept that. They you know, well, how can 568 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 4: you shoot your wife and kids and not remember that? Basically, 569 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 4: he shut down. 570 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 5: If you're not gonna believe me, I'm not going to 571 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 5: talk to you type thing. And it gets that for me. 572 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 5: I mean, if if I. 573 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 4: Talk to people and they're not listening to me, I 574 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 4: don't talk to him anymore. 575 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 5: Wou'd you do it again? 576 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 11: I didn't do it? 577 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 4: But you do it again? 578 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 13: I didn't do it. 579 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 17: What did you do it again? You keep repeating, how 580 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 17: did you do it? I didn't Did they see it? 581 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 14: I didn't do anything? 582 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 17: Did they see it when you did it? 583 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 4: I'm done talking. 584 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 17: Did you see it? Did you see it? Did you 585 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 17: see their face? Did you see their faces when they 586 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 17: did it? 587 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 8: Huh? 588 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 17: I'm never talking. 589 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 11: Huh. 590 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 17: Don't shut down on me. This is a new Cress. 591 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 17: Remember I answered your question, Chris Man. This is a 592 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 17: new Chris. 593 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 16: I lost everything, but you'd have everything now. You may 594 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 16: have lost things in the past, but what do you 595 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 16: have now? But you get to start a new don't you. 596 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 16: You're reborn again, the new Chris. 597 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 17: Right else you do. But you know what, Chris, put 598 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 17: your head down. Keep it down, because that's where it belongs. 599 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 7: The shame, the shame of it all, Chris, I just 600 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 7: don't want to hear what you have, the same of 601 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 7: it all and over this, the shame of it all. 602 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 17: Quite put your head back down. I'd be shame too. 603 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 7: If I did what you did, I'd be shaved. I 604 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 7: put my head down, just done. I would put my 605 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 7: head downheah, put your head back down. Shameful, But that's 606 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:31,399 Speaker 7: old Chris. 607 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 17: Would be a shameful. Do anything shameful. 608 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: After everything, they let Chris go, but the police were 609 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: far from being done with him. He was followed constantly 610 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: They had a tail on. 611 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 4: Him and us at all times. They had an unmarked car. 612 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 4: They knew exactly where we were, they knew exactly what 613 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 4: rooms where you're staying in and and everything. They tailed 614 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 4: us all the way coming back to the Missouri shape line. 615 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: And then the next day, when it seemed as if 616 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: Chris had already hit rock bottom, things would continue to 617 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: get worse. 618 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 4: It wasn't until we got Chris back to our house. 619 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 13: And then. 620 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 4: While we were making the funeral arrangements stuff like that, 621 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 4: the state police called us and they wanted to talk 622 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 4: to Chris and I again. And I said, okay, we'll 623 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 4: come over and talk to us. You know, this is 624 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 4: our address, and he said, no, you got to go 625 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 4: over there. Well, we had to go over across the 626 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 4: state line in Illinois because they had no jurisdiction. And 627 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 4: if you know, I didn't figure out this out till later, 628 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 4: but if Chris had said something or admitted something, they 629 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 4: could arrested him right there in Illinois because they had jurisdiction. 630 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 4: If they came over to our side of the river, 631 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 4: they had none. 632 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: In spite of everything, the Vaughn still trusted the police 633 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: at that point and in the presumption of innocence. They 634 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: also felt they had nothing to hide, so. 635 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 4: We went over there and talked to him again. On 636 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 4: the way back, Chris more or less told me he's 637 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 4: his dad. He says, I think they're going to try 638 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 4: to do in this on me. And I said, well, 639 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,479 Speaker 4: you know, I says, you don't have any worry about 640 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 4: he didn't do it, and he said, well, that's not 641 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,439 Speaker 4: what they think. And then that's about all I said 642 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 4: about it, because he he was still much in a 643 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 4: state of shock, trying to figure things out. Neither one 644 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 4: of us knew what to. 645 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: Do, and it turns out there was very little that 646 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: could be done. It was at this point that Christopher 647 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: Vaughan was no longer just a grieving father and spouse. 648 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 1: He was the primary suspect, and the murders of his 649 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: wife and children called. 650 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 6: His feet to my nor my flight diuma. 651 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 18: He swollen him up, changing mine. I'll hope he fusing. 652 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 6: This in that. 653 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: On the next murder in Illinois, as Crispawn prepares to 654 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: place his wife and children in their graves. 655 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 5: I absolutely saw him crying. 656 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 11: I saw him trying to hold it together around people, 657 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 11: but you could just see pain emanating from him. 658 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: Handcuffs are placed on his wrists. 659 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 4: There was fourteen different policemen standing there and they immediately 660 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 4: handcuffed him and writing his rights and tell him his 661 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 4: being arrested for the murder of his family. 662 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. Executive producers 663 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: are Lauren Bright Pacheco and Taylor Chaquoine. Written by Lauren 664 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: Bright Pacheco and Matthew Riddle, Story editing by Matthew Riddle, 665 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: editing and sound design by Evan Tyer and Taylor Chaquoine. 666 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: Featuring music by Cicada Rhythm with new compositions engineered and 667 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 1: mixed by Evan Tyer and Taylor Chaquoyne. Archived news reports 668 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: provided by w G. 669 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 19: Nyma Hey It's way, alma I am. 670 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 6: Bra and waitlaar yes, wait helma ar Wait kay say. 671 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, 672 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories that matter 673 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: to you.