WEBVTT - Dr. Jay B - They Would Mandate Lockdown Again For the Next Pandemic 0:00:11.697 --> 0:00:14.977 You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 0:00:14.977 --> 0:00:17.977 you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or 0:00:18.017 --> 0:00:19.737 wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:20.297 --> 0:00:22.857 Welcome to the Buck Sexton Show, everybody. On this episode, 0:00:22.857 --> 0:00:26.737 we have doctor J. Batacharia with us. We're very excited 0:00:26.777 --> 0:00:30.297 to talk to him about well health policy as it 0:00:30.337 --> 0:00:34.697 relates to COVID and so much more. Batachari as a 0:00:34.697 --> 0:00:38.177 professor at Stanford University Medical School, teaching in the Department 0:00:38.217 --> 0:00:41.137 of Health Policy. He's a Research associate of the National 0:00:41.177 --> 0:00:44.257 Bureau of Economic Research, a founding fellow of the Academy 0:00:44.297 --> 0:00:47.257 of Science at Freedom at Hillsdale College, and co wrote 0:00:47.697 --> 0:00:53.337 the Great Barrington Declaration, a focused protection alternative through lockdowns. 0:00:53.697 --> 0:00:56.657 Doctor Botacharia honored to speak with you, sirs. As a 0:00:56.857 --> 0:01:02.817 very early, huge supporter, booster, adopter of the Great Barrington Declaration. 0:01:03.217 --> 0:01:06.057 I feel like I'm in the presence of Sanity Royalty. 0:01:07.817 --> 0:01:11.137 Thank you for your sanity Tuotebuck sheiate the support for it. 0:01:11.217 --> 0:01:12.057 Thank you for having me on. 0:01:12.497 --> 0:01:16.017 So just for everyone listening to this, if they, you know, 0:01:16.297 --> 0:01:19.617 subscribe to my show and they know what I'm gonna say, 0:01:19.977 --> 0:01:24.377 so you were right. So the Great brand Declaration was 0:01:25.337 --> 0:01:27.857 as correct more correct now, even if that's possible, than 0:01:27.857 --> 0:01:30.097 it was then because we played out the experiment on 0:01:30.137 --> 0:01:30.617 the other. 0:01:30.497 --> 0:01:32.417 Side of what what happened. 0:01:33.377 --> 0:01:35.057 Let me start with this because it's such a big 0:01:35.097 --> 0:01:38.977 topic and we don't you know, you've got people to 0:01:39.017 --> 0:01:42.057 save and young minds to mold and all that stuff. 0:01:42.057 --> 0:01:42.857 At Stanford. 0:01:44.777 --> 0:01:49.217 How is it that all the institutions of medicine seemed 0:01:49.257 --> 0:01:53.177 to get this entirely wrong and would not speak out 0:01:53.377 --> 0:01:57.257 at all in favor of some sanity on this. 0:01:58.457 --> 0:02:01.417 I mean, I think there was some element of policy 0:02:01.497 --> 0:02:07.257 hysteresis wish. I mean, like very early on the Chinese example, 0:02:07.257 --> 0:02:11.937 the January twenty twenty Chinese lockdown played an enormously important 0:02:11.977 --> 0:02:14.337 role in the minds of public health. The people, like 0:02:14.377 --> 0:02:17.177 the World Health Organization sent a delegation to China in 0:02:17.257 --> 0:02:21.377 February and it came back like they wrote this report saying, oh, 0:02:21.377 --> 0:02:25.697 what China did worked, and then everyone copied China, all 0:02:25.777 --> 0:02:28.217 the countries one by one, from Italy on. It was 0:02:28.257 --> 0:02:32.297 like Domino's falling with these lockdowns, And you know, how 0:02:32.377 --> 0:02:35.697 do you do something so dramatic, so devastating that already had. 0:02:36.537 --> 0:02:38.817 It's really hard if you're like at the top of 0:02:38.857 --> 0:02:42.537 some bureaucracy and some hierarchy, especially if you're a scientist, 0:02:42.577 --> 0:02:45.337 to admit that you've got it wrong. And so I 0:02:45.377 --> 0:02:47.657 think that that's that. Like by the time October twenty 0:02:47.657 --> 0:02:50.417 twenty rolled around, I mean, I saw very clearly the 0:02:50.417 --> 0:02:54.257 lockdowns had failed in October, in April, March, April twenty twenty, 0:02:55.177 --> 0:02:57.617 and that I'd already gotten already seen all of the 0:02:57.657 --> 0:03:00.817 devastating reports that were coming out of poor countries and 0:03:00.857 --> 0:03:03.417 even rich countries about what had happened to poor people 0:03:03.497 --> 0:03:06.657 during the lockdowns and so and I also saw that 0:03:06.697 --> 0:03:10.217 the lockdowns were coming back. And so what's happened? And 0:03:10.257 --> 0:03:13.577 I think since is it's a lot of people who 0:03:13.657 --> 0:03:16.497 should have known better, and maybe now they actually do 0:03:16.617 --> 0:03:18.617 know better, but they can't bring themselves to admit that 0:03:18.657 --> 0:03:20.737 they were wrong. Because they do, they sort of lose 0:03:20.777 --> 0:03:23.857 their status, lose their position, lose their power. 0:03:25.497 --> 0:03:30.977 Now, did you have docs coming to you, colleagues, people 0:03:31.017 --> 0:03:36.177 you know in the medical community who were saying to you, look, 0:03:36.217 --> 0:03:40.377 I know this is all crap like this the paper masks, really, 0:03:40.417 --> 0:03:44.257 the masks period aren't doing anything for anybody. The lockdowns 0:03:44.257 --> 0:03:47.417 were a disaster didn't stop the virus at all. And 0:03:47.617 --> 0:03:50.297 you know, the vaccines are nowhere near what they were 0:03:50.337 --> 0:03:53.057 promised to be. And I want to get your take 0:03:53.097 --> 0:03:56.257 on exactly how you'd grade the vaccines in a moment. 0:03:57.257 --> 0:04:00.017 But did you have people coming to you in twenty 0:04:00.057 --> 0:04:02.737 twenty one, twenty twenty two, I mean, I mean later 0:04:02.817 --> 0:04:05.377 on in the pandemic, or was the group think so 0:04:05.537 --> 0:04:10.577 strong that mds, even from Vario esteemed institutions like in 0:04:10.657 --> 0:04:14.497 Stanford University Medical School just couldn't see what was obvious. 0:04:15.777 --> 0:04:18.257 So in twenty twenty I'm pretty sure I was not 0:04:18.337 --> 0:04:21.377 a majority, My view was not the majority within Stanford, 0:04:21.857 --> 0:04:24.977 but it might have been a pretty prominent a much 0:04:25.017 --> 0:04:26.337 more prominent than people realized. 0:04:26.377 --> 0:04:26.497 Right. 0:04:26.537 --> 0:04:29.697 So when we wrote the Great Brenton Declaration, almost immediately 0:04:29.737 --> 0:04:32.737 actually released it, tens of thousands of scientists signed on, 0:04:33.097 --> 0:04:35.897 very prominent scientists signed on, including a Nobel Prize winner 0:04:35.897 --> 0:04:39.817 here at Stanford. It was it was really clear that 0:04:39.857 --> 0:04:42.697 there was a pretty substantial portion of the scientific community 0:04:42.737 --> 0:04:46.377 that was very deeply unhappy with the lockdowns, that actually 0:04:46.417 --> 0:04:49.257 was not a consensus, the scientific consensus behind them, and 0:04:49.257 --> 0:04:50.937 that actually that there was a lot of people who 0:04:50.977 --> 0:04:53.657 thought what we were proposing, which is essentially lifting lockdowns 0:04:53.657 --> 0:04:57.017 and focused protection of vulnerable older people, was a better strategy. 0:04:57.177 --> 0:05:00.537 Was a strategy actually, just to be clear, that strategy 0:05:00.577 --> 0:05:03.497 we proposed the Great Brandon decoration. That's basically the old 0:05:03.497 --> 0:05:06.577 pandemic plan we followed for a century of respiratory virus pandemics. 0:05:06.817 --> 0:05:08.577 I was just cribbing off of people that are smarter 0:05:08.657 --> 0:05:11.337 than me for over the last entry. So it wasn't 0:05:11.417 --> 0:05:14.657 like we had a really truly novel thing. So it's 0:05:14.657 --> 0:05:18.257 not surprising that a lot of people, but the suppression 0:05:18.537 --> 0:05:21.257 was so the censorship, the smearing of people that that 0:05:21.337 --> 0:05:24.897 said no, was so severe that a lot of people 0:05:25.057 --> 0:05:27.377 kept themselves silent. A lot of very prominent people kept 0:05:27.417 --> 0:05:29.857 themselves silent after after we wrote the Great Parent Doc Christians, 0:05:29.857 --> 0:05:32.177 the people that signed it, some of them lost their jobs. 0:05:32.617 --> 0:05:35.617 A lot of them face like, you know, investigations and 0:05:35.657 --> 0:05:38.777 other things within their own universities for you know, for heresy, 0:05:38.817 --> 0:05:43.377 I guess. And it was it was so shocking because 0:05:43.377 --> 0:05:47.177 I thought the scientific community was more open to challenge. 0:05:47.217 --> 0:05:49.457 I mean, that's part of what science is. You say, 0:05:49.857 --> 0:05:52.817 you think you think a I think that I think 0:05:52.857 --> 0:05:55.297 B we run an experiment, it turns out you're right. 0:05:55.617 --> 0:05:58.137 Now we both think A right, but no, I'm not 0:05:58.217 --> 0:06:00.297 even allowed to say B. You're not allowed to say 0:06:00.657 --> 0:06:03.497 and therefore there's no challenge and we don't know what's right. 0:06:04.377 --> 0:06:07.377 A lot of that happened during the pandemic. People silence themselves. 0:06:07.577 --> 0:06:10.497 Has there been any I mean, here we are talking 0:06:11.177 --> 0:06:15.377 in halfway through twenty twenty three, and you know, someone 0:06:15.417 --> 0:06:17.537 just told me that in New York City where I 0:06:17.617 --> 0:06:20.617 left New York City because of the response to the pandemic. 0:06:20.617 --> 0:06:22.977 I mean, that was the number one reason I just said, 0:06:22.297 --> 0:06:26.057 I can't do this anymore at this place. The libs 0:06:26.537 --> 0:06:29.417 have gone completely insane, and I'm not going to pay 0:06:29.497 --> 0:06:31.897 taxes to support this system, et cetera. Right, but put 0:06:31.897 --> 0:06:33.737 that aside for a moment. A friend of mine who 0:06:33.737 --> 0:06:35.457 was there said that recently, all these they had these 0:06:35.457 --> 0:06:40.097 little COVID testing tents, as if remember there was that obsession. 0:06:40.337 --> 0:06:41.817 It's almost hard to go back and think of this 0:06:41.817 --> 0:06:43.337 as like a nightmare that you're trying to forget. There 0:06:43.377 --> 0:06:46.337 was this obsession with we just had testing everywhere, Like 0:06:46.537 --> 0:06:47.937 what is that? What is that even going to do? 0:06:48.097 --> 0:06:48.217 Right? 0:06:48.337 --> 0:06:51.377 What was the point of having just mass testing, constant 0:06:51.377 --> 0:06:53.417 test test, test test tests all the time. Was just 0:06:53.457 --> 0:06:56.937 an anxiety disorder pretending to be a health policy. But 0:06:57.017 --> 0:06:59.097 you know now they've switched it, so now it's COVID 0:06:59.177 --> 0:07:02.857 and flu testing. Almost like we've created this bureaucracy that 0:07:02.897 --> 0:07:07.057 will now live on forever. Instead of everyone realizing what 0:07:07.097 --> 0:07:11.017 a disaster the policies were, the policies were, we're really bad. 0:07:12.377 --> 0:07:15.457 Yeah, it's institutionalized hypochondria book, That's what it was, and 0:07:15.497 --> 0:07:18.857 it is. I mean, I think you know you you 0:07:18.897 --> 0:07:22.097 the testing is is valuable if you use it the 0:07:22.177 --> 0:07:25.297 right way. Right, So if let's take those at home 0:07:25.337 --> 0:07:27.257 managing tests, right, So what if we'd had them very 0:07:27.257 --> 0:07:30.057 early and we use them so that before you go 0:07:30.137 --> 0:07:32.537 visit a nursing home, you test you have to check sure. 0:07:33.177 --> 0:07:35.737 Right before, all we had was those PCR tests. That 0:07:35.777 --> 0:07:37.697 wasn't a technological thing. That was a decision that was 0:07:37.697 --> 0:07:41.417 made by public health that to not promote the andergen 0:07:41.457 --> 0:07:43.777 test early. That could have been you know, sort of 0:07:43.777 --> 0:07:48.097 promoted and like developed much earlier. And the reasoning was that, well, 0:07:48.097 --> 0:07:49.737 if you do a PCR test that has to happen 0:07:49.777 --> 0:07:52.097 in a lab, public health will know if you're positive, 0:07:52.737 --> 0:07:54.777 if you'd had the Amergen test early, people could have 0:07:54.857 --> 0:07:58.417 known for themselves without even directly reporting public health and 0:07:58.577 --> 0:08:02.577 use that information to protect older people, vulnerable people. Matchine, 0:08:02.617 --> 0:08:05.097 We've done that. Like the test, the key question is 0:08:05.097 --> 0:08:07.377 not whether we should test. The question is what do 0:08:07.457 --> 0:08:10.577 we where should we test? What we tell for, and 0:08:10.617 --> 0:08:14.017 what do you do with the information? Testing low risk 0:08:14.097 --> 0:08:20.657 people for for for the viral fragments in a where 0:08:20.657 --> 0:08:22.817 they have no symptoms at all, It is just destructive, 0:08:22.817 --> 0:08:24.897 it puts it results in a whole bunch of low 0:08:25.217 --> 0:08:28.777 people being quarantined for nothing. That's what happened during the pandemic. 0:08:28.817 --> 0:08:30.377 And then a lot of people just stop testing because 0:08:30.377 --> 0:08:31.537 they're like I don't want to I don't want to 0:08:31.577 --> 0:08:34.257 be stuck in quarantine for you end days just because 0:08:34.257 --> 0:08:37.337 I tested positive. So yeah, I think I think the 0:08:37.377 --> 0:08:41.177 testing it's just it's it's like you have a technology, 0:08:41.177 --> 0:08:42.697 but you don't know how to really use it. You 0:08:42.697 --> 0:08:44.817 have to like think, And we didn't do that. 0:08:45.097 --> 0:08:46.897 Yeah, no, there was there was no thinking. Tier to 0:08:46.937 --> 0:08:50.537 your point about the previous pandemic policies as well, it 0:08:50.577 --> 0:08:53.257 really feels like the people that were supposed to implement 0:08:53.257 --> 0:08:56.097 the policy, looked at the book of what decades of 0:08:56.177 --> 0:08:58.617 thought and research had come up with and said, now, 0:08:58.697 --> 0:09:01.897 let's scrap this. Let's let's just let's go with something 0:09:01.897 --> 0:09:04.257 else right away in the moment, you know, if you've 0:09:04.297 --> 0:09:06.617 been practicing a fire drill and a fire exit plan 0:09:06.697 --> 0:09:09.297 for years, the house catches on fire and you go, well, 0:09:09.417 --> 0:09:12.417 let's forget about the fire. Let's forget about those fire exits. Everybody, 0:09:12.457 --> 0:09:15.057 let you know, everyone think you're crazy. Seems to be 0:09:15.137 --> 0:09:16.297 kind of what they did. 0:09:17.977 --> 0:09:19.617 This for me. But it's an area, you know. 0:09:19.697 --> 0:09:22.857 I still get people docs you know, that say, oh, 0:09:22.977 --> 0:09:24.737 you know, we've moved past COVID. I said, how have 0:09:24.817 --> 0:09:27.817 you moved past COVID? There hasn't been any account any 0:09:27.817 --> 0:09:33.297 accountability for this. Have you seen any major institution. I'm 0:09:33.417 --> 0:09:36.257 here in Miami because I left New York and I 0:09:36.617 --> 0:09:38.977 went to the U Miami Health System just to get 0:09:38.977 --> 0:09:41.017 a yearly my check up, you know, And I don't 0:09:41.017 --> 0:09:42.097 go yearly, but I hadn't been. 0:09:42.097 --> 0:09:44.097 I like, I don't know five or six years. Don't 0:09:44.097 --> 0:09:44.737 tell anyone, doc. 0:09:44.937 --> 0:09:47.937 And so I'm going for a checkup, and they made 0:09:47.977 --> 0:09:50.017 me wear This is a couple months ago. They made 0:09:50.017 --> 0:09:53.137 me wear a mask walking in the lobby and then 0:09:53.177 --> 0:09:55.177 I go in the actual medical area and like, yeah, 0:09:55.177 --> 0:09:56.897 we don't really but I mean they shouted at me 0:09:56.937 --> 0:09:58.977 to put a mask on. I don't feel like there's 0:09:58.977 --> 0:10:01.777 an accountability. I think there's still pockets of lunacy. Do 0:10:02.137 --> 0:10:05.337 you think has anyone been chastened by this? You know, 0:10:05.377 --> 0:10:08.457 does anyone at the CDC feel horrified at what an 0:10:08.497 --> 0:10:11.817 abject failure they were during the US or not really now? 0:10:11.937 --> 0:10:14.297 The CDC, the NI, HD, FDA, they're all they all 0:10:14.337 --> 0:10:17.577 failed in very fundamental ways, and they're basically like they're 0:10:18.457 --> 0:10:21.137 giving themselves awards, like they're patting themselves on the back. 0:10:21.817 --> 0:10:25.057 There have been some attempts to try to like do 0:10:25.137 --> 0:10:27.457 some evaluations. So for instance, the House Select Committee on 0:10:27.457 --> 0:10:32.017 this Coronavirus task coronavirus pandemic has been meeting, but you know, 0:10:32.097 --> 0:10:34.657 like if you look, I testified that the Democrats have 0:10:34.737 --> 0:10:37.457 basically they think they've done everything right. The only problem 0:10:37.497 --> 0:10:40.977 was misinformation by the by the by the right, and 0:10:41.017 --> 0:10:43.457 so like you don't you're not getting like honest, like 0:10:43.497 --> 0:10:47.297 a real honest evaluation in that setting of what actually 0:10:47.377 --> 0:10:50.457 went wrong, scientific questions about what what went wrong in 0:10:50.537 --> 0:10:54.657 policy and in science. There's other places like in around 0:10:54.657 --> 0:10:57.297 the world. The UK has its is it's its parliamentary 0:10:57.297 --> 0:11:00.377 inquiry going on. There are some some some like like 0:11:00.697 --> 0:11:04.617 the Danish of the Norwegian authorities have concluded that they 0:11:04.657 --> 0:11:06.817 shouldn't have closed schools for the two weeks or whatever 0:11:06.817 --> 0:11:08.297 they closed it for the very short period of time 0:11:08.297 --> 0:11:11.457 they closed it. So you're starting to see some push pushback. 0:11:11.457 --> 0:11:13.737 But as it stands, Buck, I completely agree with you. 0:11:14.057 --> 0:11:16.617 We are in a position where if the pandemic, another 0:11:16.657 --> 0:11:20.937 pandemic comes, we will lock down again. We will absolutely 0:11:20.937 --> 0:11:23.977 lock down to it is now thus standard plan. And 0:11:24.057 --> 0:11:26.017 so that means that if you run a small business, 0:11:26.977 --> 0:11:29.377 prepare around that, because it's very likely that you're going 0:11:29.417 --> 0:11:31.817 to face a time where your demand is going to 0:11:31.897 --> 0:11:34.097 dry up because of that. If you have kids, make 0:11:34.137 --> 0:11:37.177 alternate arrangements, make sure that they have some capacity to 0:11:37.657 --> 0:11:41.537 learn even if another pandemic happens. You know, I think, uh, 0:11:41.857 --> 0:11:45.217 a huge amount of civilization depends on some sort of 0:11:45.297 --> 0:11:47.977 certainty that the kinds of guarantees that we have in 0:11:48.017 --> 0:11:49.857 our society. You know, I can send my kids to 0:11:49.857 --> 0:11:51.857 school and I kid the teachers are going to teach 0:11:51.897 --> 0:11:54.297 them I have to worry about it. Those those are 0:11:54.337 --> 0:11:57.137 out the window now thanks to this pandemic manage, this 0:11:57.217 --> 0:12:00.497 crazy pandemic management we faced and that which is now 0:12:00.537 --> 0:12:01.737 I think the standard plan. 0:12:02.257 --> 0:12:03.777 So I want to I want to ask you, Doc, 0:12:04.577 --> 0:12:06.217 hold hold your answer for a second, but I want 0:12:06.217 --> 0:12:08.337 to ever know. We're going to get into what your 0:12:08.377 --> 0:12:13.497 real report card for the mRNA vaccines against COVID. I 0:12:13.537 --> 0:12:15.097 want to be specific on it because I know people 0:12:15.097 --> 0:12:17.737 like to play all these games. No, no, no, no, I 0:12:17.777 --> 0:12:20.657 want your real report card for what we know now 0:12:20.737 --> 0:12:23.937 based on the data and what we've seen in reality, 0:12:24.057 --> 0:12:26.417 not in theory. In just a second, but for a 0:12:26.417 --> 0:12:27.857 moment here, I want to talk about the Tunnel the 0:12:27.897 --> 0:12:31.817 Towers Foundation two thousand, nine hundred and seventy seven People 0:12:31.857 --> 0:12:34.337 lost their lives on nine to eleven, two thousand and one, 0:12:34.777 --> 0:12:37.457 but that day is still taking lives. People are suffering 0:12:37.497 --> 0:12:40.617 and dying from nine to eleven related illnesses. Not to mention, 0:12:40.697 --> 0:12:43.057 there's also a whole generation out there that knows little 0:12:43.097 --> 0:12:45.937 to nothing about nine to eleven. Only two states in 0:12:45.937 --> 0:12:49.177 our nation mandate K to twelve learning about that day. 0:12:49.417 --> 0:12:52.177 That's why the Tunnel the Towers nine to eleven Institute 0:12:52.417 --> 0:12:56.577 is giving educators access to nonfiction nine to eleven resources 0:12:56.577 --> 0:12:59.857 for K through twelve that includes full curriculum units built 0:12:59.857 --> 0:13:03.257 around first person accounts. Tunnel to Towers Foundation has also 0:13:03.337 --> 0:13:06.337 created a Speaker's Bureau with access to nine to eleven 0:13:06.337 --> 0:13:09.737 first responders, survivors, and loved ones. They speak in schools 0:13:09.737 --> 0:13:12.937 and community centers as they're invited. Finally, they've got a 0:13:12.937 --> 0:13:16.257 mobile exhibit, a high tech eighty three foot tractor trailer 0:13:16.417 --> 0:13:19.857 that turns into an eleven hundred square foot interactive museum 0:13:19.897 --> 0:13:22.977 with nine to eleven artifacts. To never forget, we must 0:13:23.097 --> 0:13:27.457 educate future generations. Help Tunnel to Towers educate kids. Donate 0:13:27.497 --> 0:13:30.377 eleven dollars a month at T two t dot org. 0:13:30.817 --> 0:13:34.977 That's T the number two T dot org. All right, 0:13:35.417 --> 0:13:42.017 your grade for the mRNA vaccines, doctor Botocharia. 0:13:42.897 --> 0:13:44.537 See I give it a C. 0:13:45.497 --> 0:13:47.657 So tell us what worked, what didn't? What do we 0:13:47.697 --> 0:13:48.097 need to know? 0:13:48.777 --> 0:13:53.337 Yeah? So, I think the problem actually is again not 0:13:53.417 --> 0:13:56.737 just the technology, but rather how it's used. All right, So, 0:13:56.817 --> 0:13:59.817 in December of twenty twenty, the randomized trials what it found. 0:13:59.977 --> 0:14:04.217 What they found was that the vaccines stopped symptomatic infection. 0:14:04.417 --> 0:14:06.737 At ninety five percent for two months. That was the 0:14:06.857 --> 0:14:09.457 That was the result. We didn't know if it's if 0:14:09.737 --> 0:14:13.737 if the the protection waned after that time. We didn't 0:14:13.817 --> 0:14:16.217 know if it stopped transmission. If you get infected, can 0:14:16.257 --> 0:14:18.177 you still get infected, can you still pass the disease on? 0:14:19.697 --> 0:14:22.377 We didn't know if it stopped asymptomatic infection, And we 0:14:22.377 --> 0:14:24.777 didn't know for certain whether it protected you against severe 0:14:24.777 --> 0:14:26.777 disease and death, because the random zest trials didn't have 0:14:26.817 --> 0:14:29.457 that as a primary endpoint. In fact, the m RNA 0:14:29.537 --> 0:14:34.137 vaccines the trials had actually more deaths in the vaccine 0:14:34.217 --> 0:14:36.097 arm than the placebo arm, but it was like such 0:14:36.097 --> 0:14:38.337 small numbers that you couldn't tell statistically. You had to 0:14:38.577 --> 0:14:40.897 tell it when it world down in the public at large. 0:14:41.857 --> 0:14:43.337 The reason I give it a C is I do 0:14:43.377 --> 0:14:45.657 think that it would protect it against severe disease and death, 0:14:46.297 --> 0:14:48.857 which was really important for older people who had a 0:14:48.937 --> 0:14:53.257 very high risk of dying from COVID. Young people, the 0:14:53.377 --> 0:14:56.177 mortality benefit is small because the risk of dying from 0:14:56.217 --> 0:14:59.017 COVID is small, so I don't see much benefit, and 0:14:59.097 --> 0:15:01.617 I do see some harm, like for young men, like 0:15:02.097 --> 0:15:05.697 folks your age, it's you have I think an unacceptably 0:15:05.777 --> 0:15:08.977 high rate of myocarditis, especially after the second dose, but 0:15:08.977 --> 0:15:13.217 certainly even the first does you know, heart inflammation after 0:15:13.217 --> 0:15:17.137 the vaccine, so for for so okay, So how would 0:15:17.177 --> 0:15:19.177 you use that vaccine with with this kind of these 0:15:19.217 --> 0:15:21.217 kind of characteristic The way I would use it is 0:15:21.257 --> 0:15:23.737 I would use it to protect older people. I would 0:15:23.777 --> 0:15:26.217 very much strongly encourage older people to get the vaccine, 0:15:26.377 --> 0:15:28.377 And in fact, that's what I did, and I think 0:15:28.417 --> 0:15:30.297 it saved lives doing that. 0:15:31.697 --> 0:15:33.337 Kind of like the flu, right, I mean, the flu 0:15:33.497 --> 0:15:37.257 is for older people, immuno compromise people get a flu shot, right, 0:15:37.337 --> 0:15:40.617 that's generally the that's the advice, the guidance that I've received, 0:15:40.657 --> 0:15:42.537 I think a lot of other people here from their doctors. 0:15:42.857 --> 0:15:44.937 But it's not if you're twenty five and you don't 0:15:44.937 --> 0:15:46.937 get the flu shot, you're a monster who's killing your 0:15:47.057 --> 0:15:47.857 killing your grandma. 0:15:48.297 --> 0:15:51.177 Yeah, because the flu shot doesn't stop transmission most most years, 0:15:52.497 --> 0:15:54.337 and it's so like you know, if young young people 0:15:54.337 --> 0:15:57.937 can get actually young flu is probably a little worse 0:15:57.977 --> 0:16:00.457 for young people than covid is, depending on the age 0:16:00.457 --> 0:16:03.017 and the condition you're in. So it's you know, flu is, 0:16:03.057 --> 0:16:05.457 flu is a different thing. The vaccine is a very 0:16:05.497 --> 0:16:08.377 it's a very traditional technology. It's very safe, that flu vaccine. 0:16:08.377 --> 0:16:10.857 It's we know we know that the characteristics of it 0:16:10.897 --> 0:16:13.417 because we've been using it for decades. It wasn't true 0:16:13.457 --> 0:16:17.537 for the mRNA vaccine when we recommended it at scale. Instead, 0:16:17.657 --> 0:16:21.857 we used it to essentially we first first public comp 0:16:21.937 --> 0:16:23.817 made this promise that if everyone got it, or ninety 0:16:23.857 --> 0:16:25.377 percent of the people got or eighty percent of people 0:16:25.377 --> 0:16:27.657 got it, then the disease would stop. You get hurt 0:16:27.657 --> 0:16:31.337 immunity with the vaccine. The problem was like herd immunity 0:16:31.337 --> 0:16:34.937 doesn't work that way. You don't you don't you need 0:16:34.977 --> 0:16:38.657 a vaccine that actually stops you from getting and transmitting 0:16:38.697 --> 0:16:42.057 the disease. There's a famous clip of this woman on 0:16:42.177 --> 0:16:46.417 MSNBC like you know this like incredible delivery. She's like 0:16:46.457 --> 0:16:48.177 telling saying, okay, if you if you get it, you 0:16:48.177 --> 0:16:50.257 are a dead end for the virus. You don't transmit 0:16:50.297 --> 0:16:53.617 it to other people, right, And that was wrong. She 0:16:53.697 --> 0:16:56.017 didn't know that. The public Health didn't know that. And 0:16:56.057 --> 0:16:57.657 yet you had Tony thought you going around saying you 0:16:57.657 --> 0:16:59.017 gotta have eighty percent of people to get it in 0:16:59.137 --> 0:17:00.657 order for the disease to go away. 0:17:00.977 --> 0:17:01.977 Well, that that was the part of it. 0:17:02.017 --> 0:17:03.977 That all that I think bothered so many people. You know, 0:17:04.017 --> 0:17:06.737 I told, and I was saying this on Radio two 0:17:06.937 --> 0:17:09.617 at the time. I told my own parents, who were 0:17:09.617 --> 0:17:14.177 both seeing both senior citizens, unsurprisingly, to go get the vaccine. 0:17:14.377 --> 0:17:15.417 And they did. 0:17:15.737 --> 0:17:18.937 And I think that under the circumstances, given what we knew, 0:17:18.977 --> 0:17:22.577 that was a sensible move. But the whole mandates and 0:17:22.617 --> 0:17:24.817 the federal mandate that Biden tried and then had to 0:17:24.817 --> 0:17:27.297 be overturned, you know, the Supreme Court had to step 0:17:27.337 --> 0:17:29.457 in and say, no, you can't do that. This was 0:17:29.497 --> 0:17:32.297 all premised on you have to get it because you're 0:17:32.297 --> 0:17:34.217 a danger to the people around you if you don't. 0:17:34.777 --> 0:17:36.897 I mean, that was a total lie, right doc. And 0:17:37.137 --> 0:17:39.937 what I want to know is should did they know 0:17:40.017 --> 0:17:41.857 it was a lie all along? 0:17:43.417 --> 0:17:45.257 Was it always a lie? Or did they figure out 0:17:45.297 --> 0:17:46.457 that it was a lie? You know what I mean? 0:17:46.657 --> 0:17:49.777 So early on let's say January Febry twenty twenty one, 0:17:50.177 --> 0:17:53.137 they didn't know it was true because the trial didn't 0:17:53.217 --> 0:17:56.217 check it. So if they confidently said that if you 0:17:56.257 --> 0:17:58.017 get the vaccine, you're not going to spread it, they're 0:17:58.137 --> 0:18:02.017 lying because they're over representing what the trial said. By 0:18:02.177 --> 0:18:05.777 let's say April May June twenty twenty one, it was 0:18:05.817 --> 0:18:09.417 clear from international events that heavily vaccine societies were experiencing 0:18:10.177 --> 0:18:14.777 huge disease burden, a huge spread of the disease. You know, 0:18:14.857 --> 0:18:17.057 places like I remember the earliest one was I was. 0:18:17.417 --> 0:18:19.137 I think it was like the Seychelle Islands, which you 0:18:19.257 --> 0:18:21.817 use the Chinese vaccine. I saw this enormous outbreak in 0:18:21.857 --> 0:18:24.817 like late March, early April Afica, exact the date, twenty 0:18:24.857 --> 0:18:27.937 twenty one. I thought, huh, that's strange. Maybe maybe that 0:18:27.977 --> 0:18:30.097 means that the vaccine, the Chinese vaccine, doesn't work. I 0:18:30.137 --> 0:18:31.897 wonder what that means for the for the these vacs, 0:18:31.937 --> 0:18:34.857 the MR ANDAs we used. And then I saw Gibraltar 0:18:35.697 --> 0:18:38.617 which had an enormous outbreak. And then I saw, I mean, 0:18:38.617 --> 0:18:41.977 it's just like Israel. Country after country there was heavily vaccinated, 0:18:42.257 --> 0:18:45.097 saw enormous outbreaks. It was clear that all of these 0:18:45.177 --> 0:18:48.297 vaccines had failed to stop disease spread, and that at 0:18:48.297 --> 0:18:50.617 that point it was it was a pure lie. They 0:18:50.697 --> 0:18:53.177 should have been seeing these same things I saw, and 0:18:53.217 --> 0:18:55.657 yet they still going on TV saying if you don't 0:18:56.017 --> 0:18:59.297 aren't vaccinated, You're a danger to others. That's a lie 0:18:59.617 --> 0:19:02.537 piled on top of demonization of people. This this sort 0:19:02.537 --> 0:19:05.417 of like separation of people on the basis of like 0:19:05.457 --> 0:19:08.217 are you clean or unclean, which is a very dangerous 0:19:08.257 --> 0:19:11.297 thing to do in public health. A lot of people. Yeah, 0:19:11.337 --> 0:19:13.257 I don't know, Like I heard all these stories from 0:19:13.297 --> 0:19:16.737 Thanksgiving A twenty twenty one where I'm vaccinated, people weren't 0:19:16.777 --> 0:19:21.297 invited to Thanksgiving for their own families. Yes, I mean 0:19:21.577 --> 0:19:25.777 that's public Health's fault. That that's a lie put around 0:19:25.777 --> 0:19:28.617 by public health essentially demonized people on the base of 0:19:28.617 --> 0:19:31.337 the vaccination status. And then there was a parent lie 0:19:31.337 --> 0:19:33.297 with it, which is that if you had had COVID 0:19:33.297 --> 0:19:36.537 and recovered, there was no there's no immunity at all. All. 0:19:36.577 --> 0:19:39.097 The evidence was really clear by July twenty twenty that 0:19:39.097 --> 0:19:40.617 you had pre substantial immunity. 0:19:41.937 --> 0:19:44.257 Yeah, how is it that doctor Fauci could look anyone 0:19:44.697 --> 0:19:48.977 in the health sphere in the face and say, Rather, 0:19:49.097 --> 0:19:50.817 the bigger thing is what he didn't say, which he 0:19:51.057 --> 0:19:57.657 the concept of natural immunity was completely abandoned for the pandemic. 0:19:58.417 --> 0:20:01.137 How couldn't people see, right? I mean, doc, how many 0:20:01.177 --> 0:20:03.937 years did what you went to school? How many years 0:20:03.937 --> 0:20:06.057 for medicine? I mean it was like four years medical school, 0:20:06.057 --> 0:20:08.537 four years residency, right, I mean you spent decades of 0:20:08.617 --> 0:20:11.217 your life studying this. There are like you, How could 0:20:11.217 --> 0:20:12.697 they have not have seen this? I feel like I'm 0:20:12.697 --> 0:20:14.057