1 00:00:11,697 --> 00:00:14,977 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 2 00:00:14,977 --> 00:00:17,977 Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or 3 00:00:18,017 --> 00:00:19,737 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. 4 00:00:20,297 --> 00:00:22,857 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Buck Sexton Show, everybody. On this episode, 5 00:00:22,857 --> 00:00:26,737 Speaker 2: we have doctor J. Batacharia with us. We're very excited 6 00:00:26,777 --> 00:00:30,297 Speaker 2: to talk to him about well health policy as it 7 00:00:30,337 --> 00:00:34,697 Speaker 2: relates to COVID and so much more. Batachari as a 8 00:00:34,697 --> 00:00:38,177 Speaker 2: professor at Stanford University Medical School, teaching in the Department 9 00:00:38,217 --> 00:00:41,137 Speaker 2: of Health Policy. He's a Research associate of the National 10 00:00:41,177 --> 00:00:44,257 Speaker 2: Bureau of Economic Research, a founding fellow of the Academy 11 00:00:44,297 --> 00:00:47,257 Speaker 2: of Science at Freedom at Hillsdale College, and co wrote 12 00:00:47,697 --> 00:00:53,337 Speaker 2: the Great Barrington Declaration, a focused protection alternative through lockdowns. 13 00:00:53,697 --> 00:00:56,657 Speaker 2: Doctor Botacharia honored to speak with you, sirs. As a 14 00:00:56,857 --> 00:01:02,817 Speaker 2: very early, huge supporter, booster, adopter of the Great Barrington Declaration. 15 00:01:03,217 --> 00:01:06,057 Speaker 2: I feel like I'm in the presence of Sanity Royalty. 16 00:01:07,817 --> 00:01:11,137 Speaker 3: Thank you for your sanity Tuotebuck sheiate the support for it. 17 00:01:11,217 --> 00:01:12,057 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me on. 18 00:01:12,497 --> 00:01:16,017 Speaker 2: So just for everyone listening to this, if they, you know, 19 00:01:16,297 --> 00:01:19,617 Speaker 2: subscribe to my show and they know what I'm gonna say, 20 00:01:19,977 --> 00:01:24,377 Speaker 2: so you were right. So the Great brand Declaration was 21 00:01:25,337 --> 00:01:27,857 Speaker 2: as correct more correct now, even if that's possible, than 22 00:01:27,857 --> 00:01:30,097 Speaker 2: it was then because we played out the experiment on 23 00:01:30,137 --> 00:01:30,617 Speaker 2: the other. 24 00:01:30,497 --> 00:01:32,417 Speaker 1: Side of what what happened. 25 00:01:33,377 --> 00:01:35,057 Speaker 2: Let me start with this because it's such a big 26 00:01:35,097 --> 00:01:38,977 Speaker 2: topic and we don't you know, you've got people to 27 00:01:39,017 --> 00:01:42,057 Speaker 2: save and young minds to mold and all that stuff. 28 00:01:42,057 --> 00:01:42,857 Speaker 1: At Stanford. 29 00:01:44,777 --> 00:01:49,217 Speaker 2: How is it that all the institutions of medicine seemed 30 00:01:49,257 --> 00:01:53,177 Speaker 2: to get this entirely wrong and would not speak out 31 00:01:53,377 --> 00:01:57,257 Speaker 2: at all in favor of some sanity on this. 32 00:01:58,457 --> 00:02:01,417 Speaker 3: I mean, I think there was some element of policy 33 00:02:01,497 --> 00:02:07,257 Speaker 3: hysteresis wish. I mean, like very early on the Chinese example, 34 00:02:07,257 --> 00:02:11,937 Speaker 3: the January twenty twenty Chinese lockdown played an enormously important 35 00:02:11,977 --> 00:02:14,337 Speaker 3: role in the minds of public health. The people, like 36 00:02:14,377 --> 00:02:17,177 Speaker 3: the World Health Organization sent a delegation to China in 37 00:02:17,257 --> 00:02:21,377 Speaker 3: February and it came back like they wrote this report saying, oh, 38 00:02:21,377 --> 00:02:25,697 Speaker 3: what China did worked, and then everyone copied China, all 39 00:02:25,777 --> 00:02:28,217 Speaker 3: the countries one by one, from Italy on. It was 40 00:02:28,257 --> 00:02:32,297 Speaker 3: like Domino's falling with these lockdowns, And you know, how 41 00:02:32,377 --> 00:02:35,697 Speaker 3: do you do something so dramatic, so devastating that already had. 42 00:02:36,537 --> 00:02:38,817 Speaker 3: It's really hard if you're like at the top of 43 00:02:38,857 --> 00:02:42,537 Speaker 3: some bureaucracy and some hierarchy, especially if you're a scientist, 44 00:02:42,577 --> 00:02:45,337 Speaker 3: to admit that you've got it wrong. And so I 45 00:02:45,377 --> 00:02:47,657 Speaker 3: think that that's that. Like by the time October twenty 46 00:02:47,657 --> 00:02:50,417 Speaker 3: twenty rolled around, I mean, I saw very clearly the 47 00:02:50,417 --> 00:02:54,257 Speaker 3: lockdowns had failed in October, in April, March, April twenty twenty, 48 00:02:55,177 --> 00:02:57,617 Speaker 3: and that I'd already gotten already seen all of the 49 00:02:57,657 --> 00:03:00,817 Speaker 3: devastating reports that were coming out of poor countries and 50 00:03:00,857 --> 00:03:03,417 Speaker 3: even rich countries about what had happened to poor people 51 00:03:03,497 --> 00:03:06,657 Speaker 3: during the lockdowns and so and I also saw that 52 00:03:06,697 --> 00:03:10,217 Speaker 3: the lockdowns were coming back. And so what's happened? And 53 00:03:10,257 --> 00:03:13,577 Speaker 3: I think since is it's a lot of people who 54 00:03:13,657 --> 00:03:16,497 Speaker 3: should have known better, and maybe now they actually do 55 00:03:16,617 --> 00:03:18,617 Speaker 3: know better, but they can't bring themselves to admit that 56 00:03:18,657 --> 00:03:20,737 Speaker 3: they were wrong. Because they do, they sort of lose 57 00:03:20,777 --> 00:03:23,857 Speaker 3: their status, lose their position, lose their power. 58 00:03:25,497 --> 00:03:30,977 Speaker 2: Now, did you have docs coming to you, colleagues, people 59 00:03:31,017 --> 00:03:36,177 Speaker 2: you know in the medical community who were saying to you, look, 60 00:03:36,217 --> 00:03:40,377 Speaker 2: I know this is all crap like this the paper masks, really, 61 00:03:40,417 --> 00:03:44,257 Speaker 2: the masks period aren't doing anything for anybody. The lockdowns 62 00:03:44,257 --> 00:03:47,417 Speaker 2: were a disaster didn't stop the virus at all. And 63 00:03:47,617 --> 00:03:50,297 Speaker 2: you know, the vaccines are nowhere near what they were 64 00:03:50,337 --> 00:03:53,057 Speaker 2: promised to be. And I want to get your take 65 00:03:53,097 --> 00:03:56,257 Speaker 2: on exactly how you'd grade the vaccines in a moment. 66 00:03:57,257 --> 00:04:00,017 Speaker 2: But did you have people coming to you in twenty 67 00:04:00,057 --> 00:04:02,737 Speaker 2: twenty one, twenty twenty two, I mean, I mean later 68 00:04:02,817 --> 00:04:05,377 Speaker 2: on in the pandemic, or was the group think so 69 00:04:05,537 --> 00:04:10,577 Speaker 2: strong that mds, even from Vario esteemed institutions like in 70 00:04:10,657 --> 00:04:14,497 Speaker 2: Stanford University Medical School just couldn't see what was obvious. 71 00:04:15,777 --> 00:04:18,257 Speaker 3: So in twenty twenty I'm pretty sure I was not 72 00:04:18,337 --> 00:04:21,377 Speaker 3: a majority, My view was not the majority within Stanford, 73 00:04:21,857 --> 00:04:24,977 Speaker 3: but it might have been a pretty prominent a much 74 00:04:25,017 --> 00:04:26,337 Speaker 3: more prominent than people realized. 75 00:04:26,377 --> 00:04:26,497 Speaker 1: Right. 76 00:04:26,537 --> 00:04:29,697 Speaker 3: So when we wrote the Great Brenton Declaration, almost immediately 77 00:04:29,737 --> 00:04:32,737 Speaker 3: actually released it, tens of thousands of scientists signed on, 78 00:04:33,097 --> 00:04:35,897 Speaker 3: very prominent scientists signed on, including a Nobel Prize winner 79 00:04:35,897 --> 00:04:39,817 Speaker 3: here at Stanford. It was it was really clear that 80 00:04:39,857 --> 00:04:42,697 Speaker 3: there was a pretty substantial portion of the scientific community 81 00:04:42,737 --> 00:04:46,377 Speaker 3: that was very deeply unhappy with the lockdowns, that actually 82 00:04:46,417 --> 00:04:49,257 Speaker 3: was not a consensus, the scientific consensus behind them, and 83 00:04:49,257 --> 00:04:50,937 Speaker 3: that actually that there was a lot of people who 84 00:04:50,977 --> 00:04:53,657 Speaker 3: thought what we were proposing, which is essentially lifting lockdowns 85 00:04:53,657 --> 00:04:57,017 Speaker 3: and focused protection of vulnerable older people, was a better strategy. 86 00:04:57,177 --> 00:05:00,537 Speaker 3: Was a strategy actually, just to be clear, that strategy 87 00:05:00,577 --> 00:05:03,497 Speaker 3: we proposed the Great Brandon decoration. That's basically the old 88 00:05:03,497 --> 00:05:06,577 Speaker 3: pandemic plan we followed for a century of respiratory virus pandemics. 89 00:05:06,817 --> 00:05:08,577 Speaker 3: I was just cribbing off of people that are smarter 90 00:05:08,657 --> 00:05:11,337 Speaker 3: than me for over the last entry. So it wasn't 91 00:05:11,417 --> 00:05:14,657 Speaker 3: like we had a really truly novel thing. So it's 92 00:05:14,657 --> 00:05:18,257 Speaker 3: not surprising that a lot of people, but the suppression 93 00:05:18,537 --> 00:05:21,257 Speaker 3: was so the censorship, the smearing of people that that 94 00:05:21,337 --> 00:05:24,897 Speaker 3: said no, was so severe that a lot of people 95 00:05:25,057 --> 00:05:27,377 Speaker 3: kept themselves silent. A lot of very prominent people kept 96 00:05:27,417 --> 00:05:29,857 Speaker 3: themselves silent after after we wrote the Great Parent Doc Christians, 97 00:05:29,857 --> 00:05:32,177 Speaker 3: the people that signed it, some of them lost their jobs. 98 00:05:32,617 --> 00:05:35,617 Speaker 3: A lot of them face like, you know, investigations and 99 00:05:35,657 --> 00:05:38,777 Speaker 3: other things within their own universities for you know, for heresy, 100 00:05:38,817 --> 00:05:43,377 Speaker 3: I guess. And it was it was so shocking because 101 00:05:43,377 --> 00:05:47,177 Speaker 3: I thought the scientific community was more open to challenge. 102 00:05:47,217 --> 00:05:49,457 Speaker 3: I mean, that's part of what science is. You say, 103 00:05:49,857 --> 00:05:52,817 Speaker 3: you think you think a I think that I think 104 00:05:52,857 --> 00:05:55,297 Speaker 3: B we run an experiment, it turns out you're right. 105 00:05:55,617 --> 00:05:58,137 Speaker 3: Now we both think A right, but no, I'm not 106 00:05:58,217 --> 00:06:00,297 Speaker 3: even allowed to say B. You're not allowed to say 107 00:06:00,657 --> 00:06:03,497 Speaker 3: and therefore there's no challenge and we don't know what's right. 108 00:06:04,377 --> 00:06:07,377 Speaker 3: A lot of that happened during the pandemic. People silence themselves. 109 00:06:07,577 --> 00:06:10,497 Speaker 2: Has there been any I mean, here we are talking 110 00:06:11,177 --> 00:06:15,377 Speaker 2: in halfway through twenty twenty three, and you know, someone 111 00:06:15,417 --> 00:06:17,537 Speaker 2: just told me that in New York City where I 112 00:06:17,617 --> 00:06:20,617 Speaker 2: left New York City because of the response to the pandemic. 113 00:06:20,617 --> 00:06:22,977 Speaker 2: I mean, that was the number one reason I just said, 114 00:06:22,297 --> 00:06:26,057 Speaker 2: I can't do this anymore at this place. The libs 115 00:06:26,537 --> 00:06:29,417 Speaker 2: have gone completely insane, and I'm not going to pay 116 00:06:29,497 --> 00:06:31,897 Speaker 2: taxes to support this system, et cetera. Right, but put 117 00:06:31,897 --> 00:06:33,737 Speaker 2: that aside for a moment. A friend of mine who 118 00:06:33,737 --> 00:06:35,457 Speaker 2: was there said that recently, all these they had these 119 00:06:35,457 --> 00:06:40,097 Speaker 2: little COVID testing tents, as if remember there was that obsession. 120 00:06:40,337 --> 00:06:41,817 Speaker 2: It's almost hard to go back and think of this 121 00:06:41,817 --> 00:06:43,337 Speaker 2: as like a nightmare that you're trying to forget. There 122 00:06:43,377 --> 00:06:46,337 Speaker 2: was this obsession with we just had testing everywhere, Like 123 00:06:46,537 --> 00:06:47,937 Speaker 2: what is that? What is that even going to do? 124 00:06:48,097 --> 00:06:48,217 Speaker 1: Right? 125 00:06:48,337 --> 00:06:51,377 Speaker 2: What was the point of having just mass testing, constant 126 00:06:51,377 --> 00:06:53,417 Speaker 2: test test, test test tests all the time. Was just 127 00:06:53,457 --> 00:06:56,937 Speaker 2: an anxiety disorder pretending to be a health policy. But 128 00:06:57,017 --> 00:06:59,097 Speaker 2: you know now they've switched it, so now it's COVID 129 00:06:59,177 --> 00:07:02,857 Speaker 2: and flu testing. Almost like we've created this bureaucracy that 130 00:07:02,897 --> 00:07:07,057 Speaker 2: will now live on forever. Instead of everyone realizing what 131 00:07:07,097 --> 00:07:11,017 Speaker 2: a disaster the policies were, the policies were, we're really bad. 132 00:07:12,377 --> 00:07:15,457 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's institutionalized hypochondria book, That's what it was, and 133 00:07:15,497 --> 00:07:18,857 Speaker 3: it is. I mean, I think you know you you 134 00:07:18,897 --> 00:07:22,097 Speaker 3: the testing is is valuable if you use it the 135 00:07:22,177 --> 00:07:25,297 Speaker 3: right way. Right, So if let's take those at home 136 00:07:25,337 --> 00:07:27,257 Speaker 3: managing tests, right, So what if we'd had them very 137 00:07:27,257 --> 00:07:30,057 Speaker 3: early and we use them so that before you go 138 00:07:30,137 --> 00:07:32,537 Speaker 3: visit a nursing home, you test you have to check sure. 139 00:07:33,177 --> 00:07:35,737 Speaker 3: Right before, all we had was those PCR tests. That 140 00:07:35,777 --> 00:07:37,697 Speaker 3: wasn't a technological thing. That was a decision that was 141 00:07:37,697 --> 00:07:41,417 Speaker 3: made by public health that to not promote the andergen 142 00:07:41,457 --> 00:07:43,777 Speaker 3: test early. That could have been you know, sort of 143 00:07:43,777 --> 00:07:48,097 Speaker 3: promoted and like developed much earlier. And the reasoning was that, well, 144 00:07:48,097 --> 00:07:49,737 Speaker 3: if you do a PCR test that has to happen 145 00:07:49,777 --> 00:07:52,097 Speaker 3: in a lab, public health will know if you're positive, 146 00:07:52,737 --> 00:07:54,777 Speaker 3: if you'd had the Amergen test early, people could have 147 00:07:54,857 --> 00:07:58,417 Speaker 3: known for themselves without even directly reporting public health and 148 00:07:58,577 --> 00:08:02,577 Speaker 3: use that information to protect older people, vulnerable people. Matchine, 149 00:08:02,617 --> 00:08:05,097 Speaker 3: We've done that. Like the test, the key question is 150 00:08:05,097 --> 00:08:07,377 Speaker 3: not whether we should test. The question is what do 151 00:08:07,457 --> 00:08:10,577 Speaker 3: we where should we test? What we tell for, and 152 00:08:10,617 --> 00:08:14,017 Speaker 3: what do you do with the information? Testing low risk 153 00:08:14,097 --> 00:08:20,657 Speaker 3: people for for for the viral fragments in a where 154 00:08:20,657 --> 00:08:22,817 Speaker 3: they have no symptoms at all, It is just destructive, 155 00:08:22,817 --> 00:08:24,897 Speaker 3: it puts it results in a whole bunch of low 156 00:08:25,217 --> 00:08:28,777 Speaker 3: people being quarantined for nothing. That's what happened during the pandemic. 157 00:08:28,817 --> 00:08:30,377 Speaker 3: And then a lot of people just stop testing because 158 00:08:30,377 --> 00:08:31,537 Speaker 3: they're like I don't want to I don't want to 159 00:08:31,577 --> 00:08:34,257 Speaker 3: be stuck in quarantine for you end days just because 160 00:08:34,257 --> 00:08:37,337 Speaker 3: I tested positive. So yeah, I think I think the 161 00:08:37,377 --> 00:08:41,177 Speaker 3: testing it's just it's it's like you have a technology, 162 00:08:41,177 --> 00:08:42,697 Speaker 3: but you don't know how to really use it. You 163 00:08:42,697 --> 00:08:44,817 Speaker 3: have to like think, And we didn't do that. 164 00:08:45,097 --> 00:08:46,897 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, there was there was no thinking. Tier to 165 00:08:46,937 --> 00:08:50,537 Speaker 2: your point about the previous pandemic policies as well, it 166 00:08:50,577 --> 00:08:53,257 Speaker 2: really feels like the people that were supposed to implement 167 00:08:53,257 --> 00:08:56,097 Speaker 2: the policy, looked at the book of what decades of 168 00:08:56,177 --> 00:08:58,617 Speaker 2: thought and research had come up with and said, now, 169 00:08:58,697 --> 00:09:01,897 Speaker 2: let's scrap this. Let's let's just let's go with something 170 00:09:01,897 --> 00:09:04,257 Speaker 2: else right away in the moment, you know, if you've 171 00:09:04,297 --> 00:09:06,617 Speaker 2: been practicing a fire drill and a fire exit plan 172 00:09:06,697 --> 00:09:09,297 Speaker 2: for years, the house catches on fire and you go, well, 173 00:09:09,417 --> 00:09:12,417 Speaker 2: let's forget about the fire. Let's forget about those fire exits. Everybody, 174 00:09:12,457 --> 00:09:15,057 Speaker 2: let you know, everyone think you're crazy. Seems to be 175 00:09:15,137 --> 00:09:16,297 Speaker 2: kind of what they did. 176 00:09:17,977 --> 00:09:19,617 Speaker 1: This for me. But it's an area, you know. 177 00:09:19,697 --> 00:09:22,857 Speaker 2: I still get people docs you know, that say, oh, 178 00:09:22,977 --> 00:09:24,737 Speaker 2: you know, we've moved past COVID. I said, how have 179 00:09:24,817 --> 00:09:27,817 Speaker 2: you moved past COVID? There hasn't been any account any 180 00:09:27,817 --> 00:09:33,297 Speaker 2: accountability for this. Have you seen any major institution. I'm 181 00:09:33,417 --> 00:09:36,257 Speaker 2: here in Miami because I left New York and I 182 00:09:36,617 --> 00:09:38,977 Speaker 2: went to the U Miami Health System just to get 183 00:09:38,977 --> 00:09:41,017 Speaker 2: a yearly my check up, you know, And I don't 184 00:09:41,017 --> 00:09:42,097 Speaker 2: go yearly, but I hadn't been. 185 00:09:42,097 --> 00:09:44,097 Speaker 1: I like, I don't know five or six years. Don't 186 00:09:44,097 --> 00:09:44,737 Speaker 1: tell anyone, doc. 187 00:09:44,937 --> 00:09:47,937 Speaker 2: And so I'm going for a checkup, and they made 188 00:09:47,977 --> 00:09:50,017 Speaker 2: me wear This is a couple months ago. They made 189 00:09:50,017 --> 00:09:53,137 Speaker 2: me wear a mask walking in the lobby and then 190 00:09:53,177 --> 00:09:55,177 Speaker 2: I go in the actual medical area and like, yeah, 191 00:09:55,177 --> 00:09:56,897 Speaker 2: we don't really but I mean they shouted at me 192 00:09:56,937 --> 00:09:58,977 Speaker 2: to put a mask on. I don't feel like there's 193 00:09:58,977 --> 00:10:01,777 Speaker 2: an accountability. I think there's still pockets of lunacy. Do 194 00:10:02,137 --> 00:10:05,337 Speaker 2: you think has anyone been chastened by this? You know, 195 00:10:05,377 --> 00:10:08,457 Speaker 2: does anyone at the CDC feel horrified at what an 196 00:10:08,497 --> 00:10:11,817 Speaker 2: abject failure they were during the US or not really now? 197 00:10:11,937 --> 00:10:14,297 Speaker 3: The CDC, the NI, HD, FDA, they're all they all 198 00:10:14,337 --> 00:10:17,577 Speaker 3: failed in very fundamental ways, and they're basically like they're 199 00:10:18,457 --> 00:10:21,137 Speaker 3: giving themselves awards, like they're patting themselves on the back. 200 00:10:21,817 --> 00:10:25,057 Speaker 3: There have been some attempts to try to like do 201 00:10:25,137 --> 00:10:27,457 Speaker 3: some evaluations. So for instance, the House Select Committee on 202 00:10:27,457 --> 00:10:32,017 Speaker 3: this Coronavirus task coronavirus pandemic has been meeting, but you know, 203 00:10:32,097 --> 00:10:34,657 Speaker 3: like if you look, I testified that the Democrats have 204 00:10:34,737 --> 00:10:37,457 Speaker 3: basically they think they've done everything right. The only problem 205 00:10:37,497 --> 00:10:40,977 Speaker 3: was misinformation by the by the by the right, and 206 00:10:41,017 --> 00:10:43,457 Speaker 3: so like you don't you're not getting like honest, like 207 00:10:43,497 --> 00:10:47,297 Speaker 3: a real honest evaluation in that setting of what actually 208 00:10:47,377 --> 00:10:50,457 Speaker 3: went wrong, scientific questions about what what went wrong in 209 00:10:50,537 --> 00:10:54,657 Speaker 3: policy and in science. There's other places like in around 210 00:10:54,657 --> 00:10:57,297 Speaker 3: the world. The UK has its is it's its parliamentary 211 00:10:57,297 --> 00:11:00,377 Speaker 3: inquiry going on. There are some some some like like 212 00:11:00,697 --> 00:11:04,617 Speaker 3: the Danish of the Norwegian authorities have concluded that they 213 00:11:04,657 --> 00:11:06,817 Speaker 3: shouldn't have closed schools for the two weeks or whatever 214 00:11:06,817 --> 00:11:08,297 Speaker 3: they closed it for the very short period of time 215 00:11:08,297 --> 00:11:11,457 Speaker 3: they closed it. So you're starting to see some push pushback. 216 00:11:11,457 --> 00:11:13,737 Speaker 3: But as it stands, Buck, I completely agree with you. 217 00:11:14,057 --> 00:11:16,617 Speaker 3: We are in a position where if the pandemic, another 218 00:11:16,657 --> 00:11:20,937 Speaker 3: pandemic comes, we will lock down again. We will absolutely 219 00:11:20,937 --> 00:11:23,977 Speaker 3: lock down to it is now thus standard plan. And 220 00:11:24,057 --> 00:11:26,017 Speaker 3: so that means that if you run a small business, 221 00:11:26,977 --> 00:11:29,377 Speaker 3: prepare around that, because it's very likely that you're going 222 00:11:29,417 --> 00:11:31,817 Speaker 3: to face a time where your demand is going to 223 00:11:31,897 --> 00:11:34,097 Speaker 3: dry up because of that. If you have kids, make 224 00:11:34,137 --> 00:11:37,177 Speaker 3: alternate arrangements, make sure that they have some capacity to 225 00:11:37,657 --> 00:11:41,537 Speaker 3: learn even if another pandemic happens. You know, I think, uh, 226 00:11:41,857 --> 00:11:45,217 Speaker 3: a huge amount of civilization depends on some sort of 227 00:11:45,297 --> 00:11:47,977 Speaker 3: certainty that the kinds of guarantees that we have in 228 00:11:48,017 --> 00:11:49,857 Speaker 3: our society. You know, I can send my kids to 229 00:11:49,857 --> 00:11:51,857 Speaker 3: school and I kid the teachers are going to teach 230 00:11:51,897 --> 00:11:54,297 Speaker 3: them I have to worry about it. Those those are 231 00:11:54,337 --> 00:11:57,137 Speaker 3: out the window now thanks to this pandemic manage, this 232 00:11:57,217 --> 00:12:00,497 Speaker 3: crazy pandemic management we faced and that which is now 233 00:12:00,537 --> 00:12:01,737 Speaker 3: I think the standard plan. 234 00:12:02,257 --> 00:12:03,777 Speaker 2: So I want to I want to ask you, Doc, 235 00:12:04,577 --> 00:12:06,217 Speaker 2: hold hold your answer for a second, but I want 236 00:12:06,217 --> 00:12:08,337 Speaker 2: to ever know. We're going to get into what your 237 00:12:08,377 --> 00:12:13,497 Speaker 2: real report card for the mRNA vaccines against COVID. I 238 00:12:13,537 --> 00:12:15,097 Speaker 2: want to be specific on it because I know people 239 00:12:15,097 --> 00:12:17,737 Speaker 2: like to play all these games. No, no, no, no, I 240 00:12:17,777 --> 00:12:20,657 Speaker 2: want your real report card for what we know now 241 00:12:20,737 --> 00:12:23,937 Speaker 2: based on the data and what we've seen in reality, 242 00:12:24,057 --> 00:12:26,417 Speaker 2: not in theory. In just a second, but for a 243 00:12:26,417 --> 00:12:27,857 Speaker 2: moment here, I want to talk about the Tunnel the 244 00:12:27,897 --> 00:12:31,817 Speaker 2: Towers Foundation two thousand, nine hundred and seventy seven People 245 00:12:31,857 --> 00:12:34,337 Speaker 2: lost their lives on nine to eleven, two thousand and one, 246 00:12:34,777 --> 00:12:37,457 Speaker 2: but that day is still taking lives. People are suffering 247 00:12:37,497 --> 00:12:40,617 Speaker 2: and dying from nine to eleven related illnesses. Not to mention, 248 00:12:40,697 --> 00:12:43,057 Speaker 2: there's also a whole generation out there that knows little 249 00:12:43,097 --> 00:12:45,937 Speaker 2: to nothing about nine to eleven. Only two states in 250 00:12:45,937 --> 00:12:49,177 Speaker 2: our nation mandate K to twelve learning about that day. 251 00:12:49,417 --> 00:12:52,177 Speaker 2: That's why the Tunnel the Towers nine to eleven Institute 252 00:12:52,417 --> 00:12:56,577 Speaker 2: is giving educators access to nonfiction nine to eleven resources 253 00:12:56,577 --> 00:12:59,857 Speaker 2: for K through twelve that includes full curriculum units built 254 00:12:59,857 --> 00:13:03,257 Speaker 2: around first person accounts. Tunnel to Towers Foundation has also 255 00:13:03,337 --> 00:13:06,337 Speaker 2: created a Speaker's Bureau with access to nine to eleven 256 00:13:06,337 --> 00:13:09,737 Speaker 2: first responders, survivors, and loved ones. They speak in schools 257 00:13:09,737 --> 00:13:12,937 Speaker 2: and community centers as they're invited. Finally, they've got a 258 00:13:12,937 --> 00:13:16,257 Speaker 2: mobile exhibit, a high tech eighty three foot tractor trailer 259 00:13:16,417 --> 00:13:19,857 Speaker 2: that turns into an eleven hundred square foot interactive museum 260 00:13:19,897 --> 00:13:22,977 Speaker 2: with nine to eleven artifacts. To never forget, we must 261 00:13:23,097 --> 00:13:27,457 Speaker 2: educate future generations. Help Tunnel to Towers educate kids. Donate 262 00:13:27,497 --> 00:13:30,377 Speaker 2: eleven dollars a month at T two t dot org. 263 00:13:30,817 --> 00:13:34,977 Speaker 2: That's T the number two T dot org. All right, 264 00:13:35,417 --> 00:13:42,017 Speaker 2: your grade for the mRNA vaccines, doctor Botocharia. 265 00:13:42,897 --> 00:13:44,537 Speaker 3: See I give it a C. 266 00:13:45,497 --> 00:13:47,657 Speaker 1: So tell us what worked, what didn't? What do we 267 00:13:47,697 --> 00:13:48,097 Speaker 1: need to know? 268 00:13:48,777 --> 00:13:53,337 Speaker 3: Yeah? So, I think the problem actually is again not 269 00:13:53,417 --> 00:13:56,737 Speaker 3: just the technology, but rather how it's used. All right, So, 270 00:13:56,817 --> 00:13:59,817 Speaker 3: in December of twenty twenty, the randomized trials what it found. 271 00:13:59,977 --> 00:14:04,217 Speaker 3: What they found was that the vaccines stopped symptomatic infection. 272 00:14:04,417 --> 00:14:06,737 Speaker 3: At ninety five percent for two months. That was the 273 00:14:06,857 --> 00:14:09,457 Speaker 3: That was the result. We didn't know if it's if 274 00:14:09,737 --> 00:14:13,737 Speaker 3: if the the protection waned after that time. We didn't 275 00:14:13,817 --> 00:14:16,217 Speaker 3: know if it stopped transmission. If you get infected, can 276 00:14:16,257 --> 00:14:18,177 Speaker 3: you still get infected, can you still pass the disease on? 277 00:14:19,697 --> 00:14:22,377 Speaker 3: We didn't know if it stopped asymptomatic infection, And we 278 00:14:22,377 --> 00:14:24,777 Speaker 3: didn't know for certain whether it protected you against severe 279 00:14:24,777 --> 00:14:26,777 Speaker 3: disease and death, because the random zest trials didn't have 280 00:14:26,817 --> 00:14:29,457 Speaker 3: that as a primary endpoint. In fact, the m RNA 281 00:14:29,537 --> 00:14:34,137 Speaker 3: vaccines the trials had actually more deaths in the vaccine 282 00:14:34,217 --> 00:14:36,097 Speaker 3: arm than the placebo arm, but it was like such 283 00:14:36,097 --> 00:14:38,337 Speaker 3: small numbers that you couldn't tell statistically. You had to 284 00:14:38,577 --> 00:14:40,897 Speaker 3: tell it when it world down in the public at large. 285 00:14:41,857 --> 00:14:43,337 Speaker 3: The reason I give it a C is I do 286 00:14:43,377 --> 00:14:45,657 Speaker 3: think that it would protect it against severe disease and death, 287 00:14:46,297 --> 00:14:48,857 Speaker 3: which was really important for older people who had a 288 00:14:48,937 --> 00:14:53,257 Speaker 3: very high risk of dying from COVID. Young people, the 289 00:14:53,377 --> 00:14:56,177 Speaker 3: mortality benefit is small because the risk of dying from 290 00:14:56,217 --> 00:14:59,017 Speaker 3: COVID is small, so I don't see much benefit, and 291 00:14:59,097 --> 00:15:01,617 Speaker 3: I do see some harm, like for young men, like 292 00:15:02,097 --> 00:15:05,697 Speaker 3: folks your age, it's you have I think an unacceptably 293 00:15:05,777 --> 00:15:08,977 Speaker 3: high rate of myocarditis, especially after the second dose, but 294 00:15:08,977 --> 00:15:13,217 Speaker 3: certainly even the first does you know, heart inflammation after 295 00:15:13,217 --> 00:15:17,137 Speaker 3: the vaccine, so for for so okay, So how would 296 00:15:17,177 --> 00:15:19,177 Speaker 3: you use that vaccine with with this kind of these 297 00:15:19,217 --> 00:15:21,217 Speaker 3: kind of characteristic The way I would use it is 298 00:15:21,257 --> 00:15:23,737 Speaker 3: I would use it to protect older people. I would 299 00:15:23,777 --> 00:15:26,217 Speaker 3: very much strongly encourage older people to get the vaccine, 300 00:15:26,377 --> 00:15:28,377 Speaker 3: And in fact, that's what I did, and I think 301 00:15:28,417 --> 00:15:30,297 Speaker 3: it saved lives doing that. 302 00:15:31,697 --> 00:15:33,337 Speaker 2: Kind of like the flu, right, I mean, the flu 303 00:15:33,497 --> 00:15:37,257 Speaker 2: is for older people, immuno compromise people get a flu shot, right, 304 00:15:37,337 --> 00:15:40,617 Speaker 2: that's generally the that's the advice, the guidance that I've received, 305 00:15:40,657 --> 00:15:42,537 Speaker 2: I think a lot of other people here from their doctors. 306 00:15:42,857 --> 00:15:44,937 Speaker 2: But it's not if you're twenty five and you don't 307 00:15:44,937 --> 00:15:46,937 Speaker 2: get the flu shot, you're a monster who's killing your 308 00:15:47,057 --> 00:15:47,857 Speaker 2: killing your grandma. 309 00:15:48,297 --> 00:15:51,177 Speaker 3: Yeah, because the flu shot doesn't stop transmission most most years, 310 00:15:52,497 --> 00:15:54,337 Speaker 3: and it's so like you know, if young young people 311 00:15:54,337 --> 00:15:57,937 Speaker 3: can get actually young flu is probably a little worse 312 00:15:57,977 --> 00:16:00,457 Speaker 3: for young people than covid is, depending on the age 313 00:16:00,457 --> 00:16:03,017 Speaker 3: and the condition you're in. So it's you know, flu is, 314 00:16:03,057 --> 00:16:05,457 Speaker 3: flu is a different thing. The vaccine is a very 315 00:16:05,497 --> 00:16:08,377 Speaker 3: it's a very traditional technology. It's very safe, that flu vaccine. 316 00:16:08,377 --> 00:16:10,857 Speaker 3: It's we know we know that the characteristics of it 317 00:16:10,897 --> 00:16:13,417 Speaker 3: because we've been using it for decades. It wasn't true 318 00:16:13,457 --> 00:16:17,537 Speaker 3: for the mRNA vaccine when we recommended it at scale. Instead, 319 00:16:17,657 --> 00:16:21,857 Speaker 3: we used it to essentially we first first public comp 320 00:16:21,937 --> 00:16:23,817 Speaker 3: made this promise that if everyone got it, or ninety 321 00:16:23,857 --> 00:16:25,377 Speaker 3: percent of the people got or eighty percent of people 322 00:16:25,377 --> 00:16:27,657 Speaker 3: got it, then the disease would stop. You get hurt 323 00:16:27,657 --> 00:16:31,337 Speaker 3: immunity with the vaccine. The problem was like herd immunity 324 00:16:31,337 --> 00:16:34,937 Speaker 3: doesn't work that way. You don't you don't you need 325 00:16:34,977 --> 00:16:38,657 Speaker 3: a vaccine that actually stops you from getting and transmitting 326 00:16:38,697 --> 00:16:42,057 Speaker 3: the disease. There's a famous clip of this woman on 327 00:16:42,177 --> 00:16:46,417 Speaker 3: MSNBC like you know this like incredible delivery. She's like 328 00:16:46,457 --> 00:16:48,177 Speaker 3: telling saying, okay, if you if you get it, you 329 00:16:48,177 --> 00:16:50,257 Speaker 3: are a dead end for the virus. You don't transmit 330 00:16:50,297 --> 00:16:53,617 Speaker 3: it to other people, right, And that was wrong. She 331 00:16:53,697 --> 00:16:56,017 Speaker 3: didn't know that. The public Health didn't know that. And 332 00:16:56,057 --> 00:16:57,657 Speaker 3: yet you had Tony thought you going around saying you 333 00:16:57,657 --> 00:16:59,017 Speaker 3: gotta have eighty percent of people to get it in 334 00:16:59,137 --> 00:17:00,657 Speaker 3: order for the disease to go away. 335 00:17:00,977 --> 00:17:01,977 Speaker 1: Well, that that was the part of it. 336 00:17:02,017 --> 00:17:03,977 Speaker 2: That all that I think bothered so many people. You know, 337 00:17:04,017 --> 00:17:06,737 Speaker 2: I told, and I was saying this on Radio two 338 00:17:06,937 --> 00:17:09,617 Speaker 2: at the time. I told my own parents, who were 339 00:17:09,617 --> 00:17:14,177 Speaker 2: both seeing both senior citizens, unsurprisingly, to go get the vaccine. 340 00:17:14,377 --> 00:17:15,417 Speaker 1: And they did. 341 00:17:15,737 --> 00:17:18,937 Speaker 2: And I think that under the circumstances, given what we knew, 342 00:17:18,977 --> 00:17:22,577 Speaker 2: that was a sensible move. But the whole mandates and 343 00:17:22,617 --> 00:17:24,817 Speaker 2: the federal mandate that Biden tried and then had to 344 00:17:24,817 --> 00:17:27,297 Speaker 2: be overturned, you know, the Supreme Court had to step 345 00:17:27,337 --> 00:17:29,457 Speaker 2: in and say, no, you can't do that. This was 346 00:17:29,497 --> 00:17:32,297 Speaker 2: all premised on you have to get it because you're 347 00:17:32,297 --> 00:17:34,217 Speaker 2: a danger to the people around you if you don't. 348 00:17:34,777 --> 00:17:36,897 Speaker 2: I mean, that was a total lie, right doc. And 349 00:17:37,137 --> 00:17:39,937 Speaker 2: what I want to know is should did they know 350 00:17:40,017 --> 00:17:41,857 Speaker 2: it was a lie all along? 351 00:17:43,417 --> 00:17:45,257 Speaker 1: Was it always a lie? Or did they figure out 352 00:17:45,297 --> 00:17:46,457 Speaker 1: that it was a lie? You know what I mean? 353 00:17:46,657 --> 00:17:49,777 Speaker 3: So early on let's say January Febry twenty twenty one, 354 00:17:50,177 --> 00:17:53,137 Speaker 3: they didn't know it was true because the trial didn't 355 00:17:53,217 --> 00:17:56,217 Speaker 3: check it. So if they confidently said that if you 356 00:17:56,257 --> 00:17:58,017 Speaker 3: get the vaccine, you're not going to spread it, they're 357 00:17:58,137 --> 00:18:02,017 Speaker 3: lying because they're over representing what the trial said. By 358 00:18:02,177 --> 00:18:05,777 Speaker 3: let's say April May June twenty twenty one, it was 359 00:18:05,817 --> 00:18:09,417 Speaker 3: clear from international events that heavily vaccine societies were experiencing 360 00:18:10,177 --> 00:18:14,777 Speaker 3: huge disease burden, a huge spread of the disease. You know, 361 00:18:14,857 --> 00:18:17,057 Speaker 3: places like I remember the earliest one was I was. 362 00:18:17,417 --> 00:18:19,137 Speaker 3: I think it was like the Seychelle Islands, which you 363 00:18:19,257 --> 00:18:21,817 Speaker 3: use the Chinese vaccine. I saw this enormous outbreak in 364 00:18:21,857 --> 00:18:24,817 Speaker 3: like late March, early April Afica, exact the date, twenty 365 00:18:24,857 --> 00:18:27,937 Speaker 3: twenty one. I thought, huh, that's strange. Maybe maybe that 366 00:18:27,977 --> 00:18:30,097 Speaker 3: means that the vaccine, the Chinese vaccine, doesn't work. I 367 00:18:30,137 --> 00:18:31,897 Speaker 3: wonder what that means for the for the these vacs, 368 00:18:31,937 --> 00:18:34,857 Speaker 3: the MR ANDAs we used. And then I saw Gibraltar 369 00:18:35,697 --> 00:18:38,617 Speaker 3: which had an enormous outbreak. And then I saw, I mean, 370 00:18:38,617 --> 00:18:41,977 Speaker 3: it's just like Israel. Country after country there was heavily vaccinated, 371 00:18:42,257 --> 00:18:45,097 Speaker 3: saw enormous outbreaks. It was clear that all of these 372 00:18:45,177 --> 00:18:48,297 Speaker 3: vaccines had failed to stop disease spread, and that at 373 00:18:48,297 --> 00:18:50,617 Speaker 3: that point it was it was a pure lie. They 374 00:18:50,697 --> 00:18:53,177 Speaker 3: should have been seeing these same things I saw, and 375 00:18:53,217 --> 00:18:55,657 Speaker 3: yet they still going on TV saying if you don't 376 00:18:56,017 --> 00:18:59,297 Speaker 3: aren't vaccinated, You're a danger to others. That's a lie 377 00:18:59,617 --> 00:19:02,537 Speaker 3: piled on top of demonization of people. This this sort 378 00:19:02,537 --> 00:19:05,417 Speaker 3: of like separation of people on the basis of like 379 00:19:05,457 --> 00:19:08,217 Speaker 3: are you clean or unclean, which is a very dangerous 380 00:19:08,257 --> 00:19:11,297 Speaker 3: thing to do in public health. A lot of people. Yeah, 381 00:19:11,337 --> 00:19:13,257 Speaker 3: I don't know, Like I heard all these stories from 382 00:19:13,297 --> 00:19:16,737 Speaker 3: Thanksgiving A twenty twenty one where I'm vaccinated, people weren't 383 00:19:16,777 --> 00:19:21,297 Speaker 3: invited to Thanksgiving for their own families. Yes, I mean 384 00:19:21,577 --> 00:19:25,777 Speaker 3: that's public Health's fault. That that's a lie put around 385 00:19:25,777 --> 00:19:28,617 Speaker 3: by public health essentially demonized people on the base of 386 00:19:28,617 --> 00:19:31,337 Speaker 3: the vaccination status. And then there was a parent lie 387 00:19:31,337 --> 00:19:33,297 Speaker 3: with it, which is that if you had had COVID 388 00:19:33,297 --> 00:19:36,537 Speaker 3: and recovered, there was no there's no immunity at all. All. 389 00:19:36,577 --> 00:19:39,097 Speaker 3: The evidence was really clear by July twenty twenty that 390 00:19:39,097 --> 00:19:40,617 Speaker 3: you had pre substantial immunity. 391 00:19:41,937 --> 00:19:44,257 Speaker 2: Yeah, how is it that doctor Fauci could look anyone 392 00:19:44,697 --> 00:19:48,977 Speaker 2: in the health sphere in the face and say, Rather, 393 00:19:49,097 --> 00:19:50,817 Speaker 2: the bigger thing is what he didn't say, which he 394 00:19:51,057 --> 00:19:57,657 Speaker 2: the concept of natural immunity was completely abandoned for the pandemic. 395 00:19:58,417 --> 00:20:01,137 Speaker 2: How couldn't people see, right? I mean, doc, how many 396 00:20:01,177 --> 00:20:03,937 Speaker 2: years did what you went to school? How many years 397 00:20:03,937 --> 00:20:06,057 Speaker 2: for medicine? I mean it was like four years medical school, 398 00:20:06,057 --> 00:20:08,537 Speaker 2: four years residency, right, I mean you spent decades of 399 00:20:08,617 --> 00:20:11,217 Speaker 2: your life studying this. There are like you, How could 400 00:20:11,217 --> 00:20:12,697 Speaker 2: they have not have seen this? I feel like I'm 401 00:20:12,697 --> 00:20:14,057 Speaker 2: just some random dude. I saw this. 402 00:20:14,137 --> 00:20:15,257 Speaker 1: It was crazy, Okay. 403 00:20:15,337 --> 00:20:17,417 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean, you know, so I do research 404 00:20:17,457 --> 00:20:19,937 Speaker 3: full time. Just so you know, So I didn't do residency, 405 00:20:19,937 --> 00:20:23,337 Speaker 3: but oh I did a PhD. I got gray hair 406 00:20:23,377 --> 00:20:23,697 Speaker 3: for a reason. 407 00:20:23,737 --> 00:20:25,537 Speaker 1: Buck, Yeah, you studied this stuff for a long time, 408 00:20:25,537 --> 00:20:26,137 Speaker 1: bottom line fair. 409 00:20:26,337 --> 00:20:30,057 Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, just so why did they not know? 410 00:20:30,177 --> 00:20:34,257 Speaker 3: I mean I think that the problem is like the 411 00:20:34,337 --> 00:20:37,137 Speaker 3: kinds of people that ran the pandemic response, they're they're 412 00:20:37,177 --> 00:20:40,617 Speaker 3: most of their HIV experts, right, So, like you know, 413 00:20:40,977 --> 00:20:45,577 Speaker 3: Tony Fauci, Rachelle Olenski, all of these folks, they made 414 00:20:45,617 --> 00:20:49,657 Speaker 3: their bones in HIV, and for HIV there's no immunity, 415 00:20:50,617 --> 00:20:53,977 Speaker 3: so and you know, like there's this new virus. They 416 00:20:54,537 --> 00:20:58,457 Speaker 3: use their knowledge of HIV to set expectations about this virus. 417 00:20:58,697 --> 00:21:00,337 Speaker 3: So very early on, it was like you weren't even 418 00:21:00,377 --> 00:21:02,217 Speaker 3: allowed to say that it's the possibility of the immunity. 419 00:21:02,297 --> 00:21:04,937 Speaker 3: Until you can prove it. The problem is like they 420 00:21:04,937 --> 00:21:07,337 Speaker 3: didn't update. By July of twenty twenty, it was clear 421 00:21:07,377 --> 00:21:11,137 Speaker 3: from like a multiple papers in prominent medical journals that actually, 422 00:21:11,257 --> 00:21:15,617 Speaker 3: you know it works pretty well, that is, your body's 423 00:21:15,777 --> 00:21:18,897 Speaker 3: immune response works pretty well. And they didn't update. They 424 00:21:18,897 --> 00:21:20,537 Speaker 3: were like, oh, we can't know for certain, We can't 425 00:21:20,537 --> 00:21:22,097 Speaker 3: know for certain. Well, you know for certain for the 426 00:21:22,177 --> 00:21:26,257 Speaker 3: vaccine either. And if you really look, you're right bucket. 427 00:21:26,297 --> 00:21:28,497 Speaker 3: You don't even need medical training. You can go back 428 00:21:28,497 --> 00:21:30,937 Speaker 3: in history, right, We've known for twenty five hundred years 429 00:21:30,977 --> 00:21:33,977 Speaker 3: during the Athenian Plague, they used people who would recover 430 00:21:34,097 --> 00:21:39,417 Speaker 3: from disease to care for people who are already sick. 431 00:21:39,497 --> 00:21:42,457 Speaker 3: It Right, in the Athenian Plague twenty five hundred years ago, 432 00:21:42,817 --> 00:21:46,057 Speaker 3: people used they used people who recovered to care for 433 00:21:46,097 --> 00:21:49,537 Speaker 3: the people who were sick because they knew about natural immunity. Somehow, 434 00:21:49,737 --> 00:21:52,297 Speaker 3: in the last three years we forgot about twenty five 435 00:21:52,337 --> 00:21:56,697 Speaker 3: hundred years of medical knowledge, and Tony Fauci going around saying, oh, 436 00:21:56,737 --> 00:21:58,897 Speaker 3: I'm not certain that you have protection if you have 437 00:21:59,537 --> 00:22:00,257 Speaker 3: COVID or covered. 438 00:22:00,377 --> 00:22:00,697 Speaker 1: We don't. 439 00:22:00,857 --> 00:22:03,377 Speaker 3: I mean, that's just crazy, it's just bad policy. People 440 00:22:03,377 --> 00:22:05,977 Speaker 3: could see with their eyes that if they got COVID 441 00:22:06,017 --> 00:22:08,097 Speaker 3: that it took for a long time. Afterwards they wouldn't 442 00:22:08,137 --> 00:22:09,777 Speaker 3: get COVID. They could see with their eyes at the 443 00:22:09,777 --> 00:22:12,137 Speaker 3: second than they got it was less severe than the 444 00:22:12,137 --> 00:22:12,577 Speaker 3: first time. 445 00:22:12,897 --> 00:22:16,657 Speaker 2: So I've been called an anti mask fanatic by all 446 00:22:16,817 --> 00:22:19,897 Speaker 2: the worst people. So I want to return and ask 447 00:22:19,977 --> 00:22:25,617 Speaker 2: you about some mask related questions and the possible connection 448 00:22:25,737 --> 00:22:28,817 Speaker 2: to massivesteria here in just a second doc. But first up, 449 00:22:28,897 --> 00:22:30,937 Speaker 2: some days you have to dig deep for the energy 450 00:22:30,937 --> 00:22:33,057 Speaker 2: you need. But where does that energy come from? And 451 00:22:33,177 --> 00:22:36,217 Speaker 2: men's body's testosterone is a critical source. 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That's Chalk 467 00:23:22,617 --> 00:23:25,777 Speaker 2: cchoq dot com and use my name Buck to get 468 00:23:25,777 --> 00:23:29,457 Speaker 2: thirty five percent off your subscription for life. So doc 469 00:23:29,777 --> 00:23:32,057 Speaker 2: I when I go into any doctor's office, and this 470 00:23:32,097 --> 00:23:34,577 Speaker 2: has been the way I felt now for what three years, 471 00:23:34,577 --> 00:23:37,857 Speaker 2: but certainly still because it does happen in places, and 472 00:23:37,977 --> 00:23:40,097 Speaker 2: I see, you know, the purpose of the people at 473 00:23:40,097 --> 00:23:42,337 Speaker 2: the front desk with the masks on they're walking around 474 00:23:42,577 --> 00:23:44,777 Speaker 2: when I'm told that it's still hospital policy as it 475 00:23:44,817 --> 00:23:47,777 Speaker 2: is in some places that visitors everybody has to walk 476 00:23:47,777 --> 00:23:50,977 Speaker 2: around with a paper mask on. I lose faith in 477 00:23:51,057 --> 00:23:54,897 Speaker 2: the intelligence, the seriousness, and the professionalism of the people involved. 478 00:23:55,177 --> 00:23:57,417 Speaker 2: Are they aware of this at this point? Like this 479 00:23:57,577 --> 00:24:00,137 Speaker 2: is this is no longer a debate that rational people 480 00:24:00,177 --> 00:24:03,977 Speaker 2: can have. It doesn't work, It doesn't help. 481 00:24:04,057 --> 00:24:04,737 Speaker 1: What are they doing? 482 00:24:06,537 --> 00:24:08,697 Speaker 3: It's it's okay, So let me just do a little 483 00:24:08,697 --> 00:24:11,097 Speaker 3: bit of the history. I think this is my theory 484 00:24:11,137 --> 00:24:13,777 Speaker 3: about why they launched themselves or attached themselves to such 485 00:24:13,817 --> 00:24:17,257 Speaker 3: an odd such a bad uh, such an intervention with 486 00:24:17,257 --> 00:24:19,977 Speaker 3: the almost no evidence behind it. In fact, the evidence 487 00:24:19,977 --> 00:24:21,897 Speaker 3: behind it. Coming into the pandemic, there was a dozen 488 00:24:22,017 --> 00:24:24,297 Speaker 3: randomized studies that said it didn't work. Show they didn't 489 00:24:24,297 --> 00:24:26,817 Speaker 3: really work very well for the flu, which transmits very 490 00:24:26,817 --> 00:24:30,977 Speaker 3: similarly to COVID, and so we knew we had the experience. 491 00:24:30,977 --> 00:24:32,817 Speaker 3: There was a reason why we didn't say to school's 492 00:24:32,977 --> 00:24:35,337 Speaker 3: mask up during flu season because there was the randomized 493 00:24:35,297 --> 00:24:40,217 Speaker 3: studies that it didn't work. When the pandemic hit, I 494 00:24:40,257 --> 00:24:43,857 Speaker 3: think public health had two contradictory aims that they needed 495 00:24:43,897 --> 00:24:46,297 Speaker 3: to meet. They wanted to meet first, they wanted to 496 00:24:46,337 --> 00:24:48,897 Speaker 3: tell the public, you've got to take this pandemic seriously. 497 00:24:48,977 --> 00:24:51,177 Speaker 3: Remember how early on, like there was that guy, that 498 00:24:51,377 --> 00:24:54,657 Speaker 3: NBA player, Rudy Gobert, who, like you know, he does 499 00:24:54,697 --> 00:24:57,937 Speaker 3: this like press conference, the licks the microphone and the 500 00:24:58,017 --> 00:25:00,417 Speaker 3: everyone gets on his case because he's not taking COVID seriously. 501 00:25:01,417 --> 00:25:04,337 Speaker 3: Masks serve the purpose of telling everybody you're in the 502 00:25:04,377 --> 00:25:06,977 Speaker 3: middle of a pandemic. Everyone's wearing a mask that means 503 00:25:06,977 --> 00:25:08,577 Speaker 3: you're in the middle of pandemic. Everything's going to take 504 00:25:08,617 --> 00:25:12,737 Speaker 3: the pandemic seriously. The second thing the mass does, and 505 00:25:13,457 --> 00:25:16,657 Speaker 3: this is paradoxical, is they also give people the sense 506 00:25:16,657 --> 00:25:19,617 Speaker 3: of control that they have something to do about the 507 00:25:19,737 --> 00:25:23,337 Speaker 3: risk that they face. So the public health makes people 508 00:25:23,377 --> 00:25:25,097 Speaker 3: feel this sense of risk and then they give them 509 00:25:25,137 --> 00:25:28,777 Speaker 3: something to control it, and now you moralize around it. 510 00:25:29,497 --> 00:25:31,777 Speaker 3: Take I wear the mask and I'm like protecting others 511 00:25:31,817 --> 00:25:35,777 Speaker 3: with it, right, I'm doing good. So I think that's 512 00:25:35,817 --> 00:25:38,417 Speaker 3: really like the fundamental thing, Like it didn't matter what 513 00:25:38,457 --> 00:25:42,177 Speaker 3: the evidence said. All that mattered was that you had 514 00:25:42,217 --> 00:25:44,257 Speaker 3: this sense of control and you have this sense of fear, 515 00:25:44,617 --> 00:25:47,297 Speaker 3: and the mass ser of both of those purposes. The 516 00:25:47,697 --> 00:25:50,977 Speaker 3: evidence during the pandemic became came in loud and clear. 517 00:25:51,617 --> 00:25:54,297 Speaker 3: Randomized studies that were looking at the effective as the 518 00:25:54,377 --> 00:25:58,257 Speaker 3: mass would find nothing. And so yeah, I think the 519 00:25:58,537 --> 00:26:01,417 Speaker 3: places that are still attached to the masks, where they 520 00:26:01,497 --> 00:26:07,057 Speaker 3: treat everybody like a biohazard, they're not following any scientific data. 521 00:26:07,097 --> 00:26:09,537 Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm not sure I should agree with 522 00:26:09,537 --> 00:26:12,097 Speaker 3: you about joejudging them, Buck, but you know what i mean, 523 00:26:12,137 --> 00:26:13,097 Speaker 3: I'm sympathetic. 524 00:26:14,137 --> 00:26:17,977 Speaker 2: Well, I just want to know, like, does anyone would 525 00:26:17,977 --> 00:26:19,697 Speaker 2: anyone in the medical community honesty come up to you 526 00:26:19,737 --> 00:26:23,937 Speaker 2: and say, doctor Botacharia, this cloth mask that I wear 527 00:26:24,097 --> 00:26:26,697 Speaker 2: for you know, a total of five minutes a day, 528 00:26:26,857 --> 00:26:29,577 Speaker 2: maybe when I go into the doctor's office. Nowhere else, 529 00:26:29,617 --> 00:26:32,217 Speaker 2: by the way, nowhere else am I wearing this? This 530 00:26:32,337 --> 00:26:35,297 Speaker 2: keeps me very safe from Aristolas virus? Like, is there 531 00:26:35,497 --> 00:26:37,817 Speaker 2: is there a serious MD on the planet who would 532 00:26:37,857 --> 00:26:39,617 Speaker 2: make that case to you? And if not, how is 533 00:26:39,657 --> 00:26:41,817 Speaker 2: it that there are still places that are making us mask? 534 00:26:43,737 --> 00:26:46,537 Speaker 3: I mean there are still people floating around inside meta. 535 00:26:46,617 --> 00:26:48,257 Speaker 3: I mean, like, you know, you can tell yourself any 536 00:26:48,257 --> 00:26:50,177 Speaker 3: story you like, buck and if you convince yourself for 537 00:26:50,737 --> 00:26:52,937 Speaker 3: you can. I mean, but and people there are people 538 00:26:52,977 --> 00:26:55,177 Speaker 3: like it's just cognitive disonance. They can't believe that they 539 00:26:55,257 --> 00:26:58,417 Speaker 3: were wrong about something, like very very smart people. So 540 00:26:58,417 --> 00:27:00,777 Speaker 3: there's not that there aren't people like that. You know 541 00:27:00,777 --> 00:27:02,977 Speaker 3: on Twitter they still bug me. But like, but it's 542 00:27:03,057 --> 00:27:06,977 Speaker 3: it's it's not. I think most people in medicine understand 543 00:27:06,977 --> 00:27:09,177 Speaker 3: that there was a mistake, that that that there isn't 544 00:27:09,177 --> 00:27:11,897 Speaker 3: the evidence behind did that they wanted, and that they 545 00:27:12,857 --> 00:27:17,457 Speaker 3: embraced an intervention that didn't have evidence, and it's undermined 546 00:27:17,457 --> 00:27:19,857 Speaker 3: the credibility in the eyes of the population. I think 547 00:27:19,897 --> 00:27:22,177 Speaker 3: a lot of people in medicine and public health have 548 00:27:22,297 --> 00:27:24,497 Speaker 3: started if they haven't seen that, they started to see that. 549 00:27:25,937 --> 00:27:27,177 Speaker 2: What do you I want to ask you how we 550 00:27:27,217 --> 00:27:30,137 Speaker 2: can fix this, this credibility issue, or what that would 551 00:27:30,177 --> 00:27:33,257 Speaker 2: look like, doc. And I also just want to say 552 00:27:33,257 --> 00:27:35,577 Speaker 2: thank you for the Great Barrenton Declaration for a lot 553 00:27:35,577 --> 00:27:38,417 Speaker 2: of us who were trying to hold the line for 554 00:27:38,537 --> 00:27:43,137 Speaker 2: sanity while and I'm talking about you know, early on 555 00:27:43,337 --> 00:27:46,777 Speaker 2: right summer twenty twenty, we'd all seen the hospital tents 556 00:27:46,817 --> 00:27:49,297 Speaker 2: in Central Park that never got used because they weren't needed, 557 00:27:49,297 --> 00:27:51,377 Speaker 2: and the hospital ship that never got. 558 00:27:51,257 --> 00:27:52,177 Speaker 1: Used in New York City. 559 00:27:52,177 --> 00:27:53,937 Speaker 2: But you know, they brought up this whole hospital ship. 560 00:27:55,137 --> 00:27:58,017 Speaker 2: We all saw this stuff, and the Great Barrington Declaration 561 00:27:58,097 --> 00:28:00,057 Speaker 2: came out and we're like, wait a second, so what 562 00:28:00,177 --> 00:28:03,257 Speaker 2: we see just as rational people. There are doctors who 563 00:28:03,377 --> 00:28:06,017 Speaker 2: are telling us that that's true. Right, So it was 564 00:28:06,617 --> 00:28:08,937 Speaker 2: really I don't know if anyone told you this. It 565 00:28:09,017 --> 00:28:13,497 Speaker 2: was a glue of light in a darkness of mass 566 00:28:13,577 --> 00:28:19,337 Speaker 2: hysteria and appalling cowardice and political opportunism. And you know, 567 00:28:19,417 --> 00:28:22,737 Speaker 2: I know you're a very nice guy. My disdain for 568 00:28:22,817 --> 00:28:25,057 Speaker 2: Anthony Fauci, who went to my high school, which I 569 00:28:25,057 --> 00:28:27,657 Speaker 2: always tell people is kind of funny. Will never it 570 00:28:27,697 --> 00:28:30,377 Speaker 2: will never cease because he's never apologized. He's never said 571 00:28:30,377 --> 00:28:32,377 Speaker 2: I lied about everything and I was wrong about everything. 572 00:28:32,497 --> 00:28:34,537 Speaker 2: If he does that, then you know, fine, Fauci will 573 00:28:34,577 --> 00:28:37,657 Speaker 2: call it a day, I guess. But the Great Barrington 574 00:28:37,657 --> 00:28:39,737 Speaker 2: Declaration is very important anyway, and you can tell I 575 00:28:39,737 --> 00:28:41,537 Speaker 2: feel very passionate about this. We'll get back to this 576 00:28:41,577 --> 00:28:43,577 Speaker 2: in a second. I just want to say thank you 577 00:28:43,617 --> 00:28:47,497 Speaker 2: for attaching your name to it and giving a template 578 00:28:47,697 --> 00:28:51,537 Speaker 2: for reality and sanity at a time when so many 579 00:28:51,617 --> 00:28:54,017 Speaker 2: of us were looking around saying, I can't believe you 580 00:28:54,057 --> 00:28:57,017 Speaker 2: know double mess. Remember they talked about goggles and gloves too. 581 00:28:57,057 --> 00:28:58,057 Speaker 2: I mean, I remember all this. 582 00:28:59,657 --> 00:29:02,857 Speaker 3: Tony Fauschu said goggles. There's not a single study I've 583 00:29:02,857 --> 00:29:05,097 Speaker 3: seen that talks about I don't know where she get 584 00:29:05,137 --> 00:29:05,657 Speaker 3: that idea. 585 00:29:06,297 --> 00:29:08,217 Speaker 2: Just you know why not right? I mean, to your 586 00:29:08,217 --> 00:29:11,857 Speaker 2: point about the enforced hypochondria, it really turned into Remember 587 00:29:11,937 --> 00:29:15,297 Speaker 2: they put the kids in the bubbles for band practice, 588 00:29:15,297 --> 00:29:19,537 Speaker 2: like the plastic bubbles. Remember remember the plastic dividers that 589 00:29:19,577 --> 00:29:20,217 Speaker 2: they set up. 590 00:29:20,177 --> 00:29:26,137 Speaker 3: In place A study that shows that it reduces airflow, 591 00:29:26,497 --> 00:29:27,417 Speaker 3: making things worse. 592 00:29:27,737 --> 00:29:30,937 Speaker 1: Yes, you're creating like little pockets of virus. I mean 593 00:29:31,497 --> 00:29:32,737 Speaker 1: you can't make this stuff up. 594 00:29:32,937 --> 00:29:35,897 Speaker 2: Everything that they did that people didn't want to do. 595 00:29:35,977 --> 00:29:38,857 Speaker 2: That people you know had a problem with, Like, yeah, 596 00:29:38,857 --> 00:29:40,977 Speaker 2: you're six, stay away from people, stay home. 597 00:29:41,617 --> 00:29:43,257 Speaker 1: That's called having. 598 00:29:42,977 --> 00:29:45,137 Speaker 2: The flu or the cold for all of you know, 599 00:29:45,217 --> 00:29:47,417 Speaker 2: human existence. You know, you don't want to infect people. 600 00:29:47,657 --> 00:29:50,377 Speaker 2: So if you're six, stay home anyway. Doc, But I 601 00:29:50,377 --> 00:29:51,857 Speaker 2: want to ask how we fix this. We'll get to 602 00:29:51,937 --> 00:29:53,817 Speaker 2: that in a second. But for everybody at home, the 603 00:29:53,857 --> 00:29:55,657 Speaker 2: team at my Pillow got to talk to you about 604 00:29:55,657 --> 00:29:58,257 Speaker 2: this for a second. You know, the Geeza dream Sheets 605 00:29:58,337 --> 00:30:02,097 Speaker 2: have done amazingly well their slippers, their pillow products, There's 606 00:30:02,137 --> 00:30:05,417 Speaker 2: so much that they have that are absolutely fantastic. But 607 00:30:05,777 --> 00:30:08,577 Speaker 2: their newest and latest offer is on their six piece 608 00:30:08,657 --> 00:30:12,897 Speaker 2: towel set. It's made with USA cotton, making it extremely absorbent, 609 00:30:13,097 --> 00:30:15,257 Speaker 2: still provides that soft feel you look for in a towel. 610 00:30:15,297 --> 00:30:15,897 Speaker 1: You want that. 611 00:30:15,857 --> 00:30:19,297 Speaker 2: Fresh towel that you get that kind of hotel towel feel. 612 00:30:20,377 --> 00:30:22,417 Speaker 2: You're gonna get it with the six piece towel set. 613 00:30:22,497 --> 00:30:24,777 Speaker 2: And you probably have old towels in your house. You 614 00:30:24,897 --> 00:30:27,897 Speaker 2: need to replace them and upgrade them. And that's what 615 00:30:27,977 --> 00:30:29,697 Speaker 2: you can do with the six piece towel set. Now, 616 00:30:29,737 --> 00:30:33,577 Speaker 2: I just got a piece six piece set myself. You 617 00:30:33,577 --> 00:30:35,857 Speaker 2: should get some, just have it on hand. Great for 618 00:30:35,937 --> 00:30:37,777 Speaker 2: guests too, you know, just to have that six piece 619 00:30:37,777 --> 00:30:40,137 Speaker 2: set ready to go. For a limited time. You get 620 00:30:40,137 --> 00:30:43,377 Speaker 2: this set on clearance for twenty five dollars with my 621 00:30:43,457 --> 00:30:46,377 Speaker 2: first name as the promo code buck. Two bath towels, 622 00:30:46,377 --> 00:30:49,177 Speaker 2: two hand towels, two washcloths. Typically it's retails for ninety 623 00:30:49,257 --> 00:30:52,577 Speaker 2: nine to ninety eight. Get it over seventy percent off 624 00:30:52,897 --> 00:30:55,897 Speaker 2: when you use promo code buck. To find this offer, 625 00:30:56,017 --> 00:30:57,977 Speaker 2: just go to MyPillow dot com click on the radio 626 00:30:58,017 --> 00:31:01,257 Speaker 2: listener special square. Get this clearance price of twenty five 627 00:31:01,337 --> 00:31:03,577 Speaker 2: dollars on the towel set. The deal will not last long. 628 00:31:04,097 --> 00:31:07,377 Speaker 2: Enter promo code buck for that twenty five dollars deal. 629 00:31:07,897 --> 00:31:11,657 Speaker 2: All right, doctor Boticharia giving you the ability here to 630 00:31:11,697 --> 00:31:16,937 Speaker 2: clean up faucheese mess. How do we fix this? How 631 00:31:16,977 --> 00:31:18,937 Speaker 2: do we fix the credibility problem? How do we fix 632 00:31:18,977 --> 00:31:23,337 Speaker 2: the systemic wrongness problem from the pandemic? So to your point, 633 00:31:23,337 --> 00:31:25,257 Speaker 2: we don't lock down again and do all this crazy 634 00:31:25,257 --> 00:31:26,817 Speaker 2: stuff again because I think we would. 635 00:31:27,057 --> 00:31:29,217 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we would too. But at the end, 636 00:31:29,337 --> 00:31:32,137 Speaker 3: to answer your question, the key thing is, let's follow 637 00:31:32,217 --> 00:31:36,577 Speaker 3: what happens after an airline disaster crash. Right, the NTSB 638 00:31:36,777 --> 00:31:39,857 Speaker 3: sends out, it's independent investigators, people who weren't involved in 639 00:31:39,897 --> 00:31:42,297 Speaker 3: the disaster. They take a look at the black box, 640 00:31:42,337 --> 00:31:44,617 Speaker 3: they like try to figure out what happened, and then 641 00:31:44,857 --> 00:31:47,977 Speaker 3: they make reforms so that it doesn't happen again. Right, 642 00:31:48,017 --> 00:31:49,977 Speaker 3: And the same thing happens in medicine. Right, so when 643 00:31:49,977 --> 00:31:52,777 Speaker 3: the patient dies, you'll have these conferences called minem conferences, 644 00:31:52,817 --> 00:31:56,897 Speaker 3: mobility and mortality conferences and where doctors like it sometimes 645 00:31:56,897 --> 00:31:59,137 Speaker 3: can get heated, but like the idea isn't to blame anybody. 646 00:31:59,137 --> 00:32:01,097 Speaker 3: The idea is to like figure out what went wrong. 647 00:32:02,017 --> 00:32:05,377 Speaker 3: We need a society wide eminem conference, a society wide 648 00:32:05,417 --> 00:32:09,097 Speaker 3: airline disaster conference for the disaster that was the management 649 00:32:09,137 --> 00:32:12,057 Speaker 3: of this pandemic. And you know there's some places that 650 00:32:12,097 --> 00:32:14,177 Speaker 3: are starting to do this, but like it's it the 651 00:32:14,257 --> 00:32:16,577 Speaker 3: quote there, no one has asked really all of the 652 00:32:16,657 --> 00:32:19,457 Speaker 3: right questions. So I've worked with a do on a 653 00:32:19,497 --> 00:32:23,177 Speaker 3: document called a Norfolk Group document an o rfolk dot 654 00:32:23,297 --> 00:32:28,297 Speaker 3: org Norfolk Group dot org. Uh that that asks essentially 655 00:32:28,337 --> 00:32:32,417 Speaker 3: like eighty pages of questions, scientific questions, policy questions. You know, 656 00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:34,497 Speaker 3: some of the stuff we discussed, what was the evidence 657 00:32:34,537 --> 00:32:37,457 Speaker 3: on masks, what was the evidence on natural natural immunity? 658 00:32:37,777 --> 00:32:40,497 Speaker 3: Why didn't why wasn't it acknowledged? When did people know 659 00:32:40,537 --> 00:32:44,017 Speaker 3: that the vaccine didn't stop transmission? Why were there why 660 00:32:44,057 --> 00:32:46,857 Speaker 3: we're still there being mandates pushed? All these all these 661 00:32:46,937 --> 00:32:49,417 Speaker 3: questions need to get asked, both at the national level, 662 00:32:49,417 --> 00:32:52,697 Speaker 3: I think, and also at local levels. And and in 663 00:32:53,137 --> 00:32:56,217 Speaker 3: essentially it's an agenda, a blueprint for what an honest 664 00:32:56,257 --> 00:33:00,897 Speaker 3: commission looking at the COVID policy disaster would ask. We 665 00:33:00,977 --> 00:33:03,337 Speaker 3: still haven't had one. I think that's fundamental. Once we 666 00:33:03,417 --> 00:33:06,377 Speaker 3: have that, and it's not it won't be run by me. 667 00:33:06,417 --> 00:33:08,337 Speaker 3: It should be run nor by Tony. Fact you've run 668 00:33:08,417 --> 00:33:13,177 Speaker 3: by independent people who that and you have answers to 669 00:33:13,177 --> 00:33:16,017 Speaker 3: these questions that everyone accepts. Then you can start to 670 00:33:16,057 --> 00:33:18,537 Speaker 3: begin to start to regain credibility. 671 00:33:20,657 --> 00:33:23,297 Speaker 2: Am into that doctor Boticharia, A lot of us out 672 00:33:23,297 --> 00:33:25,017 Speaker 2: there and not just me, really appreciate what you did 673 00:33:25,097 --> 00:33:27,257 Speaker 2: during the pandemic. And then you continue to speak the truth, 674 00:33:27,377 --> 00:33:30,257 Speaker 2: and it feels like the world of medicine is not 675 00:33:30,377 --> 00:33:36,697 Speaker 2: completely going into the abyss of politicization and mass psychosis. 676 00:33:36,697 --> 00:33:38,617 Speaker 2: So thank you for that, and thank you very much 677 00:33:38,617 --> 00:33:40,737 Speaker 2: for being those Is there anywhere you should you want 678 00:33:40,737 --> 00:33:43,577 Speaker 2: to direct people to either look at your research, follow 679 00:33:43,617 --> 00:33:44,697 Speaker 2: you on Twitter, or anything like that. 680 00:33:45,817 --> 00:33:48,937 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm on Twitter. Probably too much on Twitter, 681 00:33:49,097 --> 00:33:52,137 Speaker 3: as my wife tells me. But doctor J. Boticharia A 682 00:33:52,217 --> 00:33:54,857 Speaker 3: D R J B h A T T A c 683 00:33:54,977 --> 00:33:57,777 Speaker 3: h A R I A. I'm also I have a 684 00:33:57,817 --> 00:34:01,937 Speaker 3: new sub Stack thing called Illusion of Consensus where we 685 00:34:02,017 --> 00:34:07,777 Speaker 3: explore how the idea of consensus arises, why sometimes often 686 00:34:08,377 --> 00:34:11,097 Speaker 3: the idea of consensus and sciences is actually just simply 687 00:34:11,097 --> 00:34:15,737 Speaker 3: an illusion in fact, and we use the pandemic as 688 00:34:15,777 --> 00:34:19,457 Speaker 3: a lens into that process. How the media and the 689 00:34:19,457 --> 00:34:22,457 Speaker 3: scientific community work together to create this illusion when in 690 00:34:22,497 --> 00:34:26,337 Speaker 3: fact there's quite a bit of dissenting ideas inside science. 691 00:34:27,137 --> 00:34:31,377 Speaker 3: So Illusion of Consensus on substack and Twitter, those are 692 00:34:31,377 --> 00:34:32,857 Speaker 3: the two places to follow you right now. 693 00:34:33,017 --> 00:34:35,057 Speaker 2: Doc, you have a new subscriber. I think you've got 694 00:34:35,097 --> 00:34:36,297 Speaker 2: a whole lot of others that are coming your way 695 00:34:36,297 --> 00:34:36,897 Speaker 2: to when they hear this. 696 00:34:36,937 --> 00:34:38,617 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you Buck, thank you for 697 00:34:38,697 --> 00:34:40,697 Speaker 3: having me, thank you for the great branch of decoration, 698 00:34:40,737 --> 00:34:41,177 Speaker 3: signing it