Speaker 1: First of all, you don't know me. We all about
Speaker 1: that high school drama, girl drama girl, all about them
Speaker 1: high school queens forever. We'll take you for a ride
Speaker 1: in our comic girl Cheering for the right teen drama
Speaker 1: queens girl fashion, but your tough girl, you could sit
Speaker 1: with us. Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama,
Speaker 1: drawn MC, Queen's Drama, Queens Ladies. It's the only boy
Speaker 1: that I think kissed all of us on the show.
Speaker 1: Honestly true, I can't think of anyone else that had
Speaker 1: that pleasure. A gentleman. Here he is. We're talking about you, James.
Speaker 1: What's going on to see you do? See you two?
Speaker 1: You look great. We were just making the point that
Speaker 1: you're the only boy in the history of the show
Speaker 1: that kissed all three of us. Really, m hmm, interesting
Speaker 1: because Lucas never kissed Hayley. Is there like empirical evidence
Speaker 1: to back this up? We have a tally showing. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: we've got a fan army. We've watched oh so so
Speaker 1: many episodes. That's where it is. Yeah, kudos kudos to
Speaker 1: t y'all as well for for you know, getting this
Speaker 1: far into the whole show and everything. Like, I was
Speaker 1: watching the episode last night, and it's not lost on
Speaker 1: me how many episodes it takes just to get here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let alone ahead of you. Well, wait, how many times
Speaker 1: have you seen episodes since you rapped? I mean, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine you sat there and watched soap net. You know,
Speaker 1: I did James at home with a mac and cheese
Speaker 1: watching episode one trio damn it, you got me. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I I think the last time I watched a full
Speaker 1: episode was probably around the time we were doing the
Speaker 1: crowd funding campaign. Um, and he has helped us out,
Speaker 1: came and watched episodes with us. Um, you know that
Speaker 1: was and that was a trip. I mean even back then.
Speaker 1: I mean that was twenty eighteen, I think, or maybe
Speaker 1: even twenty seventeen, So I was that was a long
Speaker 1: time ago now, um, And so you know, watching it
Speaker 1: last night's even further away, further in the rearview, no
Speaker 1: recollection of shooting those scenes. I think that was the standout.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was there was a couple of scenes
Speaker 1: that I definitely remembered, but for the most part, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: for the most part, I was like, really, I'm glad
Speaker 1: that the episode had a recap at the beginning, because
Speaker 1: I really had no idea what was going. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: recaps are helpful. Okay, Wait, I have a question, because
Speaker 1: we talk about this a lot on those show, that
Speaker 1: there are certain episodes where, similarly to what you just said,
Speaker 1: we're all going we did what I don't remember that,
Speaker 1: no idea, And then there's these scenes that you're you're
Speaker 1: not only going, oh, I remember filming that, but it's
Speaker 1: like you get you get like a it's like a
Speaker 1: muscle memory, you know that film like in your core.
Speaker 1: Were there were there scenes from four eighteen that you
Speaker 1: felt that way about or were you just surprised by
Speaker 1: the whole thing? Yeah, yeah, there was one. It was
Speaker 1: the well, I guess it was like the last scene
Speaker 1: for Nathan and Haley where I think it kicked didn't
Speaker 1: kick off Dakota, where you know, Nathan is giving a
Speaker 1: little press conference at high school, um and uh, and
Speaker 1: that scene I remember, well, yeah, everything leading up to
Speaker 1: it like not a lot of Yeah, don't don't really
Speaker 1: remember shooting that stuff. But for whatever reason, I remember
Speaker 1: that scene, probably because it took some some preparation. It
Speaker 1: was like a little bit of a monologue, a little
Speaker 1: bit of a monologue it was. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just remember being like going into that day feeling
Speaker 1: a little bit and it's rare that this happened, feeling
Speaker 1: a little bit of what Nathan must have been feeling,
Speaker 1: being like, oh man, I really don't want this room
Speaker 1: to be over for him, you know, like he's he's
Speaker 1: going to Duke. At that time, I was watching a
Speaker 1: lot of college basketball. I love to Duke. It was
Speaker 1: like so cool that Nathan was going to Duke or
Speaker 1: that prospect was there, and you know, I remember being
Speaker 1: like really impressed with with what he was doing and
Speaker 1: owning up to it. It was cool to see sort
Speaker 1: of like shades of the adult that he might become.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I remember being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I hope he can. I hope he can get this
Speaker 1: opportunity back, you know. Um So so yeah, that one's
Speaker 1: that one stood out is something that I definitely remembered.
Speaker 1: I have no recollection of standing at your side shooting
Speaker 1: that scene none whatsoever. Do you think you were just
Speaker 1: standing there, like writing a song in your head or something, Robert, Honestly,
Speaker 1: probably I just drifted off. It's one of the funniest
Speaker 1: things about about doing this show is watching back and
Speaker 1: being like so surprised at the things that I remember
Speaker 1: and the things that I don't, things that you think
Speaker 1: would be so monumental and I have no recollection, And
Speaker 1: then others that I'm like, what that scene is such
Speaker 1: a nothing scene? Why do I still smell the sheets
Speaker 1: in the wall paper? You know? Like? What the heck? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: wide and out for a little bit. Like what do
Speaker 1: you remember, James, of you know, the nine years you
Speaker 1: spent on the show. What are some of the first
Speaker 1: episodes that float back for you? I think it was
Speaker 1: probably around this season. Seasons one through three, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: are really a blur for me. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: Because you were a child, because the frontal lobe was
Speaker 1: still forming, Yeah, you're all. I was still Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was still learning to catch catch the experiences and turn
Speaker 1: them into memories. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's what it was.
Speaker 1: I mean I think around season four, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember the final episode of season four really well,
Speaker 1: the state championship game and all that. Um that was
Speaker 1: that was really really fun and kind of a monumental
Speaker 1: experience in my life. To be able to play in uh,
Speaker 1: and see States Gym, and you know everyone was out there.
Speaker 1: We all like traveled to go m you know, stay
Speaker 1: out there for a couple of days, and it was
Speaker 1: just a really really awesome experience. Um. And then after that,
Speaker 1: you know, ironically, I guess once like the characters made
Speaker 1: the jump into adulthood, maybe I was doing the same,
Speaker 1: and I just remember a lot more from those years. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember you started like coming out more in town
Speaker 1: during those years. Like you either you turned twenty one
Speaker 1: or you had a really good fake idea at that point.
Speaker 1: But like all of a sudden, like life was imitating art.
Speaker 1: We were all moving as a pack in town in
Speaker 1: a yeah, you know, in a different way. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I came out of my shell a little
Speaker 1: bit as as time went on and just got a
Speaker 1: little bit more comfortable in my own skin. You know.
Speaker 1: It definitely helped to not have to That was a
Speaker 1: thing about going out in Wilmington is like I couldn't
Speaker 1: really roll around with a fake ide because it was
Speaker 1: a small town. We were on hundred hills, so that
Speaker 1: was kind of pointless. So I had to like pick
Speaker 1: my spots. From like eighteen to twenty one, I had like,
Speaker 1: there's like a few places that would let me in
Speaker 1: the back door. Yes, a small town, it's hard to
Speaker 1: get away with stuff. Yeah yeah. But then but then
Speaker 1: once I twenty one, I could go wherever wherever you
Speaker 1: guys went so at Yeah, I wonder too, like that
Speaker 1: that sort of evolution that you were experiencing, going from
Speaker 1: being a literal teenager to an adult as we all
Speaker 1: were doing that on the show, Like, I mean we
Speaker 1: were playing teams, but you literally started as a team. Um.
Speaker 1: I wonder about it because talking about how the first
Speaker 1: couple of seasons are a blur, We've spoken a lot,
Speaker 1: and I always wonder. I'm like, do they know like
Speaker 1: when we when we shower you or any of the
Speaker 1: other guys with the compliments on this show. I'm like,
Speaker 1: does everyone just tweet our quotes at them? Like do
Speaker 1: they have any idea? So just in case they don't. Um,
Speaker 1: We've talked so much about watching Nathan's evolution, and especially
Speaker 1: like you you you in this season begin having this
Speaker 1: like deeper sort of stoic like poignance to your perform
Speaker 1: months And I wonder do you think it was because
Speaker 1: you said it? Do you think it was because Nathan
Speaker 1: is finding himself in a way where we're starting to
Speaker 1: foreshadow the man that he grows into, or or were
Speaker 1: the storylines just that poignant for you, you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about this kid settling down and getting ready to be
Speaker 1: a dad, Like was it a little life imitating art
Speaker 1: or was it really just that you were getting so
Speaker 1: much good stuff off the page that it made it
Speaker 1: extra special for you as an actor? Yeah? Yeah, probably
Speaker 1: the ladder there, I think. Um, I think around this season,
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, you know, there was like things
Speaker 1: for getting pretty real U for Nathan you know, Um,
Speaker 1: I mean you know there were the there were the
Speaker 1: storylines where you know, I'm about to get kneecapped by
Speaker 1: Rick Fox. You know, did you love that? James, Dude,
Speaker 1: I was so stoked about that. But you know, and
Speaker 1: that stuff was that stuff was great in itself, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: but I really I really gravitated towards I think being
Speaker 1: able to have those moments like at the end of
Speaker 1: episode four eighteen where you know, there's a tough decision
Speaker 1: to make, um and and you actually see Nathan um
Speaker 1: making a good decision. Um. And you know, over time
Speaker 1: he's making more and more good decisions. Um. And so
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I took that seriously and I thought
Speaker 1: it was great, and I think in a way I
Speaker 1: was I was you know, learning from it as well. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, those those lessons and things. But it just
Speaker 1: felt really good to be able to to to play
Speaker 1: that character, um that made that evolution and see it
Speaker 1: come to fruition in those ways. You know, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure you want to see him go to duke. But
Speaker 1: you know, even at twenty one, I understood that the
Speaker 1: bigger um, the bigger thing here, the more important thing here,
Speaker 1: was that he was doing the right thing. Um. And
Speaker 1: so you know that that's sunk in that that resonated
Speaker 1: with me. There's something we've We've gotten this question and
Speaker 1: all of us have answered it, and a lot of
Speaker 1: our guests have answered it, but we haven't had a
Speaker 1: chance to talk with you. Can you just tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about how you got started on this show,
Speaker 1: like what your audition process was like, and how this
Speaker 1: whole job came about for you. Yeah? How much time
Speaker 1: do we have? Yeah? Yeah, all any time in a world.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So I was like seventeen, I had done
Speaker 1: I've done a few projects, I've done a couple of
Speaker 1: pilots and things. You know, I was a senior in
Speaker 1: high school and I wasn't I wasn't too stoked on
Speaker 1: continuing acting. I've been doing it since I was like
Speaker 1: six seven years old, and I really loved it. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's tough. There's a lot of rejection, and
Speaker 1: I wasn't an adult yet. I didn't really know how
Speaker 1: to deal with that rejection. I was just sort of
Speaker 1: tired of it by the time I was seventeen, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, then one day this script came like through
Speaker 1: the pipeline or whatever. It was mailed to me by
Speaker 1: ups or so however it happened. Back used to get
Speaker 1: hard coffees back when it was called Ravens. Oh my God,
Speaker 1: call Ravens. I remember reading it just being like, all right,
Speaker 1: I gotta like give this one a shot, this one's special,
Speaker 1: and and just like you know, there was I was
Speaker 1: such a I just love basketball so much and I
Speaker 1: have a brother, and um, I loved that I grew
Speaker 1: up into small town. There was so much about it
Speaker 1: that resonated. So I went and read for lucas Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't get lucas Um, and then I went and
Speaker 1: read for Nathan and I went through a series of
Speaker 1: auditions for Nathan UM. At a certain point in the
Speaker 1: audition process, Um it got. It got through to me
Speaker 1: through like bat channels that like I wasn't I was
Speaker 1: like I was too nice, I was I was not
Speaker 1: hard enough like to be this guy. Um, But they
Speaker 1: liked me. By the way, this is like me and
Speaker 1: my mom, Like my mom's with me in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: as I'm like auditioning for this thing, and I think
Speaker 1: it was actually my mom was like, look, if you
Speaker 1: want this, you gotta go to your acting coach. You
Speaker 1: gotta take a session and like take this seriously if
Speaker 1: you're gonna do it, like do it right. So I
Speaker 1: went to my coach and we worked it the night
Speaker 1: before the test. Um I think I I think I
Speaker 1: tested like five times. Jesus WHOA really yeah. Yeah. It
Speaker 1: was like five different appointments over a few days. It
Speaker 1: was like did you have chemistry tests with that or
Speaker 1: was it just yours? It was just like me and
Speaker 1: UM and one other actor, like going into a room
Speaker 1: on the Warner Brothers lot and like just reading for
Speaker 1: the same five people, like over and over again over
Speaker 1: the course of like two days. Did they give you
Speaker 1: notes every time. It was like go home and try it, like,
Speaker 1: work on it this way, and then come back and
Speaker 1: do it differently. I think, so five times, how does
Speaker 1: that work? You know what they were doing the toll test.
Speaker 1: They were doing the test to see winch kid was
Speaker 1: going to flake first? You didn't flake? Is that why
Speaker 1: they do that? Is? I mean, think about our job though,
Speaker 1: you got to do the same thing over and over again.
Speaker 1: There's a level of endurance that you have to have
Speaker 1: in television that you don't have to have in film,
Speaker 1: like pushing someone to their breaking point. You want it to, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you wanted it. I wonder if there was anything going
Speaker 1: on with those executives in the room who were like,
Speaker 1: we got to hire someone who's a really convincing asshole.
Speaker 1: Let's make sure in real life he's not a dick,
Speaker 1: because if he is, it's going to be a nightmare.
Speaker 1: Do you know? Like I feel like there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of that too, Like we're actively asking people to
Speaker 1: come in here and be awful, you know, Season one,
Speaker 1: episode one, Nathan Scott, So maybe we should just keep
Speaker 1: bringing them in here and see if they're actually nice.
Speaker 1: They haze you, bro, I feel like all those reasons
Speaker 1: are valid. Like, now that you've mentioned all those reasons,
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's probably a good thing they brought me
Speaker 1: in five times to make sure I could do the job. Yeah. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: but I think the last step to the process was
Speaker 1: was Brian Robbins having me and this other actor go
Speaker 1: to his house and play play him one on one
Speaker 1: in his backyard. Wait. So the guy that you were
Speaker 1: up AGAs, Yeah, yeah, who was really awesome, really really
Speaker 1: awesome by the way. His name is Riley, and he's
Speaker 1: just like he's older than me, and he was I
Speaker 1: think he was like I don't know, he must spend
Speaker 1: like in his early twenties at the time, but he
Speaker 1: was just like you couldn't ask for a better actor
Speaker 1: to be testing against when you're like a teenager, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it was more of
Speaker 1: like us to just sort of like it didn't feel
Speaker 1: like we were going after the same project. It just
Speaker 1: sort of felt like we were both there just like
Speaker 1: in it sort of together, which I thought was really cool.
Speaker 1: And and he could ball for sure, and I was
Speaker 1: not playing very hard and Brian Robbins, like I think
Speaker 1: he scored a couple of points on me, and he
Speaker 1: pulled me aside and he was like, if you want
Speaker 1: this job, you're gonna have to play. I was like okay,
Speaker 1: and so I started playing and it went, it went,
Speaker 1: It went better for me after and then uh and
Speaker 1: then yeah, and then it was just like go home
Speaker 1: and wait to find out if he got the job. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The rest is history. So, so did you have any
Speaker 1: idea at that point? You know, you've got to go
Speaker 1: work it to kind of get in the headspace, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got a ball hard. Did you have any idea
Speaker 1: past who Nathan was in the pilot? Did they give
Speaker 1: you any inkling of who he would become? That he
Speaker 1: that he would have this sort of, um, you know,
Speaker 1: generational fork in the road and he could either become
Speaker 1: his dad or go the opposite way. Did you know
Speaker 1: he was gonna get married in high school? Like, did
Speaker 1: they tell you anything or was it all a surprise
Speaker 1: once the show got picked up. I didn't really Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was all kind of a surprise, to
Speaker 1: be honest. I didn't think about it that much, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't remember being that concerned with it, um because
Speaker 1: I was like just kind of I was having so
Speaker 1: much fun playing this sohole of a kid. I was like,
Speaker 1: he makes a great villain. So if I got to
Speaker 1: be a villain, you know, I was kind of fine
Speaker 1: with it. I wasn't look, I wasn't thinking things through
Speaker 1: quite as much back then. Again, I was so young.
Speaker 1: I was just kind of stoked to be there. But
Speaker 1: I remember getting like, you know, some assurances here and
Speaker 1: there that like, you know, this is not this is
Speaker 1: not who this character is. Like this character isn't going
Speaker 1: to like end up dead in a ditch somewhere as
Speaker 1: he gets his come up, and you know this is
Speaker 1: there's like an evolution for this character, and just thinking
Speaker 1: like cool, right, wow right. I mean when we when
Speaker 1: we went out to shoot the pilot, you were still
Speaker 1: in school, and yeah, you were the only one of
Speaker 1: us that was still in school, and so I remember
Speaker 1: talking about like what are you going to do for prom?
Speaker 1: What are you going to do for graduation? Because it
Speaker 1: was all like it hadn't happened for you yet, and
Speaker 1: the rest of us were twenty twenty one looking at
Speaker 1: it in the rear view mirror, and so it was
Speaker 1: great to have your energy there because you were still
Speaker 1: pumped about that stuff. Yeah, did you just feel like
Speaker 1: you never left high school for I mean fifteen years? Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean I called, I think, yeah, I called and
Speaker 1: asked my prom date out from Wilmington because I was like,
Speaker 1: I missed that time to like ask your prom date out,
Speaker 1: and I was like I couldna make some phone calls, manum.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, it was it was, I guess it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was strange. But the thing about like the show
Speaker 1: was we shot on a college campus and like everyone
Speaker 1: was a little bit older, even like you know, background
Speaker 1: were a little bit older. Like we weren't really surrounded
Speaker 1: by high school kids, so you know, and then when
Speaker 1: we were like shooting on a high school set and
Speaker 1: the class room scenes tripped me out a little bit.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't like the classroom scenes because I I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be in class period. But the rest
Speaker 1: of it was separated enough from reality that I didn't
Speaker 1: really feel like I was I was stuck in high
Speaker 1: school for too long. Yeah. Do you remember the day
Speaker 1: when we got the red pages that Nathan and Haley
Speaker 1: were getting married. I do remember that. I do because
Speaker 1: I remember I remember the red pages and being like,
Speaker 1: what the hell is going on? I've never seen red pages. Well,
Speaker 1: our trailers were attached, so because we were in so
Speaker 1: many scenes together obviously that whatever you know, whenever you
Speaker 1: for those of you listening, they tend tend to put
Speaker 1: actors in They're called a double banger, and it's one side,
Speaker 1: one side as one actor, in the other side as
Speaker 1: the other actor, and they will put you in with
Speaker 1: people that you usually work with a lot. So James
Speaker 1: and I had shared a double banger, and um yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember like busting out of my trailer door and
Speaker 1: you happen to be walking out to the time. I
Speaker 1: just remember being like, what did you say? This is
Speaker 1: crazy crazy? Yeah, very and did you know what was coming? No? No,
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I had no idea what was coming.
Speaker 1: Um again, I remember having like a delayed reaction. I
Speaker 1: think I remember being like, because you know, from I
Speaker 1: feel like the makeup trailer is like the nerve center
Speaker 1: of the set, right, and so it's like headquarters. Like
Speaker 1: I process, especially at the time, I really process things
Speaker 1: as they happen. I sort of like learned to react
Speaker 1: to things based on how other people reacted to them,
Speaker 1: and so I remember going into the makeup trailer and
Speaker 1: being like oh, this is a big deal. I guess,
Speaker 1: like people are really freaking out word. Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1: I guess that's why they're red pants. Also, like from
Speaker 1: up from I'm a boy's point of view. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got this narrative of like high school romance, and
Speaker 1: for the girls it's very romanticized. It's like Nathan sweeps
Speaker 1: her off her feet and says all the right things
Speaker 1: and all of that. Like, as a boy, you get
Speaker 1: a storyline where your teenage boy character now has to
Speaker 1: be married in high school. Like, what's your take on that?
Speaker 1: Did you know any married people in high school? I don't. No, No,
Speaker 1: I didn't, But I did grow up in a small town,
Speaker 1: and to me, it wasn't like I don't yeah, to me,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been that far removed, like would have
Speaker 1: been that crazy of a thing to do, because new
Speaker 1: plenty of people that got married, like the year after
Speaker 1: high school was out, you know, yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: was still pretty wild. I think at the time, what
Speaker 1: our characters were, characters like sophomores or juniors or something.
Speaker 1: Juniors juniors, right, yeah, I mean that was like that
Speaker 1: was definitely, you know, extraordinary. You guys, that's three years
Speaker 1: out from where my son is like if we three
Speaker 1: oh wow, yeah yeah, and from a modern perspective, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the further and further away we get from it.
Speaker 1: I like, I don't even know if that story would
Speaker 1: track today, you know, like I don't even know how
Speaker 1: many people it was. It was pretty pretty outrageous when
Speaker 1: it happened back then. But I think now just be
Speaker 1: like what you know? Um? But but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I was I just thought it was an exciting step
Speaker 1: because I don't think I necessarily like knew that it
Speaker 1: was going to go well, you know, like I certainly
Speaker 1: didn't know that it was going to be you know,
Speaker 1: we would those characters would be married throughout the duration
Speaker 1: of the show. Um, and so like to I feel like,
Speaker 1: to me, it was just kind of like, okay, well
Speaker 1: let's see where see where this goes? Like I don't
Speaker 1: know if this is a caution, Mary Taylor, you know
Speaker 1: what struck me watching you guys play those scenes in
Speaker 1: this episode today, and it is interesting, like we have
Speaker 1: such good hindsight now, right you look back and you go, well,
Speaker 1: these are the things I weren't thinking about, and these
Speaker 1: are the questions I'd ask today and oh my god,
Speaker 1: we were all a bunch of idiots. How did we survive?
Speaker 1: But I was watching you too do those scenes talking
Speaker 1: about the point shaving in your future and getting ready
Speaker 1: for a kid and all the things, and I think
Speaker 1: one of the things I realized as an adult who's
Speaker 1: had to you know, do the work. We talk so
Speaker 1: much about therapy on this show as adults who had
Speaker 1: to like go and do the work and learn things
Speaker 1: and to learn to communicate really well, especially you know,
Speaker 1: if you were raised in an environment where that wasn't
Speaker 1: modeled for you. One of the things I love watching
Speaker 1: Nathan and Haley do is communicate so well what you
Speaker 1: guys modeled in terms of the way that you would
Speaker 1: share and be vulnerable and learn that there was safety
Speaker 1: and that vulnerability with your partner. I was like, God,
Speaker 1: they are better at this than a lot of people are. Age. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's so cool, Like you guys got to go
Speaker 1: on this journey. And I think it's that it's seeing
Speaker 1: that kind of communication and that love between two people.
Speaker 1: That's probably why all the fans are so die hard
Speaker 1: because it is inspiring. Like what's crazy about that, though,
Speaker 1: is that it's so easy to do on camera. Well,
Speaker 1: especially oh yeah, you know an actor like you, James,
Speaker 1: or it's somebody that you know, you feel really comfortable with,
Speaker 1: who's honest and good and like you know you can
Speaker 1: connect with. And but it's it's so weird how it's
Speaker 1: so easy to do that on camera and then in
Speaker 1: real life when the stakes are actually high and real
Speaker 1: and your emotions for real, your heart for real is
Speaker 1: on the line, does all the walls go up, everything
Speaker 1: shuts down? And I'm like, oh, I don't know how
Speaker 1: to do that. Never practice that before in my whole life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: suddenly you're like, words are words sound for talking? They're
Speaker 1: just gone. It does really help when you have someone
Speaker 1: else writing the right words for you. Yeah, wouldn't it
Speaker 1: be fun every time you have an argument with your partner,
Speaker 1: you just like, can we call in our writers room room?
Speaker 1: To that end, though, James, we've been doing this show
Speaker 1: and we've said over and over again that this is
Speaker 1: our therapy, Like doing this podcast and looking back at
Speaker 1: this chunk of time and our life has been our therapy.
Speaker 1: But you created your own content, which feels kind of therapeutic.
Speaker 1: As an outside observer the show that you and Stephen created,
Speaker 1: like tell our listeners about that, but also, I mean
Speaker 1: I would love to know if it's been cathartic to
Speaker 1: kind of poke fun and analyze what our experience was
Speaker 1: through a creative process. Yeah, well no, thank you for
Speaker 1: bringing that up, and thank you for the question. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like the show is called everyone is Doing Great.
Speaker 1: So I love that show. I really g I love it.
Speaker 1: It's so good. Thank you, Joy. Yeah, it's it's been
Speaker 1: it's been a really fun road. UM. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's an independent television show. So we pull
Speaker 1: it together with our little filmmaker family and you know,
Speaker 1: our our friends and loved ones are in it, and
Speaker 1: you know, you know, hoping to make it happen. UM.
Speaker 1: And we did the same thing the second season. But
Speaker 1: it's basically about UM. Three actors that were on like
Speaker 1: a Vampire Diaries type show which was like, you know,
Speaker 1: a mega success and UM, and then they come off
Speaker 1: the show and you know, it's it's it's like a
Speaker 1: late coming of age. It's like they were in this
Speaker 1: period of arrested development while they were on this show.
Speaker 1: They weren't really forced to they were really facing the
Speaker 1: real world. And then they come out of the show
Speaker 1: and they're in their thirties and their you know, life
Speaker 1: has not really turned out the way that they thought
Speaker 1: it was going to. Um. And it's about them sort
Speaker 1: of dealing with those things in very very different ways,
Speaker 1: but always being pulled back together um by this like
Speaker 1: shared history, Like they're the only ones that know the
Speaker 1: experience that they went through on that show, and so
Speaker 1: those roots will always be there and will always be
Speaker 1: like pulling them back together. UM. And UM. It's it's
Speaker 1: really raw and and you know, supposed to be funny,
Speaker 1: supposed to make you laugh and feel good, um, at
Speaker 1: the same time, it's like very dry and awkward. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's just meant to just poke fun at all
Speaker 1: those little moments in life that we might feel horrifying
Speaker 1: at the time. Um. But you know when you look
Speaker 1: back at it, you know you might it might be
Speaker 1: a really funny story eventually, right. I mean it is
Speaker 1: so funny for real life, Like what was when you
Speaker 1: left One Tree Hill and you're like, that's it, I'm
Speaker 1: done starting this new chapter, but I gotta make fun
Speaker 1: of this in my new show, Like what was your
Speaker 1: what was your punchline? What was the thing you had
Speaker 1: to hit. Um there was I think it was, Um,
Speaker 1: I think it was. I think it was mostly like
Speaker 1: the for my character, it was the I guess, like
Speaker 1: an expectation that like life's just gonna work out and
Speaker 1: that you know, you can wait for good things to
Speaker 1: come to you. Um, that was something that I sort
Speaker 1: of that was a mindset that I had for a
Speaker 1: while coming out of the show. Was just like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it worked out for nine years, why isn't it. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: what's a big deal? What's everybody so worried about? Um?
Speaker 1: You know five years later you're like, Okay, I am bored.
Speaker 1: Like I'm bored. We got to get something going in.
Speaker 1: That's what you do so great on Everyone is Doing Great,
Speaker 1: Which which I loved is that you took you take
Speaker 1: an experience. It's so singular. There's a very few people
Speaker 1: who have the experience that we all had growing up
Speaker 1: as teenagers in early twenties on a TV show that
Speaker 1: lasted for so long and pacted our young life in
Speaker 1: that way. But you made it relatable. So you're taking
Speaker 1: the same experience. That seems so kind of bizarre that
Speaker 1: almost nobody has had this experience, But when you watch
Speaker 1: the show, you're still getting moments of lessons like what
Speaker 1: you're talking about in a really fun way where everybody,
Speaker 1: no matter what career you're in, can relate to the
Speaker 1: idea of like, oh, yeah, you just have to like, oh,
Speaker 1: it worked out here, so I guess I just wait
Speaker 1: and then you're like I'm still waiting. Oh wait, I'm
Speaker 1: still waiting. I got to take a bole by the
Speaker 1: horns and get out there. No thanks. That's That's exactly
Speaker 1: what we wanted people to We want people to be
Speaker 1: able to grab onto it, and we wanted it to
Speaker 1: have you know, we wanted to be relatable. We didn't
Speaker 1: want it to be entourage. We wanted it to just
Speaker 1: be a story about like people, which is you know whatever,
Speaker 1: yeah we have because everybody's been asked to do things
Speaker 1: that are embarrassing and I mean, oh my god, that
Speaker 1: scene where Steven has to do that audition used to
Speaker 1: like make out on the floor for an audition, like,
Speaker 1: please tell me that was a real did that really happen? Well?
Speaker 1: And those were the other things that inspired us to
Speaker 1: do it, you know, like there was like a broad
Speaker 1: sort of like meta stuff that was like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is like the emotional reason for doing this. But then
Speaker 1: there was just like the years and years of stories
Speaker 1: that we had from this industry and situations that we
Speaker 1: found ourselves in, and that was one of them that actually,
Speaker 1: like that didn't happen that way to Stephen, but he
Speaker 1: had an experience that was similar in an audition and
Speaker 1: it was just like the greatest story that we ever had,
Speaker 1: And we're like, how is this not on camera somewhere?
Speaker 1: How was somebody not already done this? Like we kind
Speaker 1: of I feel like the show wouldn't have happened if
Speaker 1: it wasn't for him having that experience. Oh are you
Speaker 1: so scared of our old audition tapes coming to light
Speaker 1: one day? Because I think about auditions like that where
Speaker 1: we would have to pretend there was a monster, or
Speaker 1: we would have oh yeah, or pretend you had a gun,
Speaker 1: oh god, like roll around like a Charlie's Angel. So
Speaker 1: you remember the horror film they did that all took
Speaker 1: place on the ski lift and you had to sit
Speaker 1: in a chair in the audition and like pretend that
Speaker 1: wolves were trying to bite your feet. Because Daniela and
Speaker 1: I were in that audition together, It's just like I
Speaker 1: feel like COLLETTI auditions for that one too, but like
Speaker 1: that sense of absurdity sometimes going to bite us in
Speaker 1: the ass. You guys, it's going to happen. Well, I
Speaker 1: hope it happens to all of us at once, so
Speaker 1: that at least it's like we can all laugh about it.
Speaker 1: That would be so how committed we are. I think
Speaker 1: that's why the show and what you guys have done
Speaker 1: with it, it it gives me that feeling of like like
Speaker 1: I don't know how to verbalize that, but when you
Speaker 1: just go oh god, and it feels funny but also borrowed,
Speaker 1: it's just so intense, yes, exactly where you're like, what
Speaker 1: is happening to me? Because it is there's so much
Speaker 1: about what we do that is ridiculous and that's universal.
Speaker 1: And a friend of mine is a writer and she
Speaker 1: wrote a really specific TV show and she said the
Speaker 1: best advice she ever got from her mentor is that
Speaker 1: the unique is universal. You guys have taken this very
Speaker 1: unique situation that very few people understand, and like the
Speaker 1: nine years we all spent together, and then you've put
Speaker 1: this comedic lens on it, and it does I don't
Speaker 1: know why. It just feels so universal. Everybody I know
Speaker 1: who's watched the show, it's like, oh man, that one
Speaker 1: got me or did you see that episode, Like, oh
Speaker 1: that stressed me out, Like it's just it's so funny.
Speaker 1: So that's awesome. That's I mean, that's exactly where we
Speaker 1: were going for um I think, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: you you will have creative ventures sometimes, like you're just
Speaker 1: you're inspired to go into something and you don't always
Speaker 1: know exactly what it is, but you just know that
Speaker 1: you're like you're just compelled to do it. And I
Speaker 1: guess because it's like trying, something's trying to come out
Speaker 1: of you. And by the time we got to the
Speaker 1: end of that first season, we had watched the episodes
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. You know, it was
Speaker 1: always we were always really concerned by the fact that
Speaker 1: it was industry adjacent or whatever, and we just we
Speaker 1: didn't want it to feel too inside baseball. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: remember after when the show is about to come out,
Speaker 1: being like I guess, just realizing like, Okay, we just
Speaker 1: made a show about life, Like we just made a
Speaker 1: show about starting over at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: and hopefully people will see that. So um so I'm
Speaker 1: really yeah, thank you guys. How many of those did
Speaker 1: you direct? Are you are you guys taking turns directing that?
Speaker 1: Or are you on deck the whole time? The first
Speaker 1: season it was Steven and I UM I directed most
Speaker 1: of the episodes and then Stephen directed one, and then
Speaker 1: this season we really handed the like Stevens directing UM,
Speaker 1: one of our producers, Michelle Lange, is directing, and other
Speaker 1: producer Johnny Durango is directing. Took my hands off the
Speaker 1: wheel there, because you know, acting and directing at the
Speaker 1: same time is always a challenge, but with this we
Speaker 1: do a lot of it. It's it's kind of improv based.
Speaker 1: We we do the show based on like really detailed outlines,
Speaker 1: so we have a script, but it's not really script
Speaker 1: format UM and I think that we try to just
Speaker 1: encourage actors to like it's like you're reading the page
Speaker 1: of a novel and you're like, Okay, here's all the
Speaker 1: information that I'm getting across. But really it's like, I
Speaker 1: gotta see the story in my head, and I gotta
Speaker 1: I gotta tell the story the way that I would so,
Speaker 1: oh my god, James, that's like the perfect hybrid of
Speaker 1: Laguna Beach in One Tree Hill Kids outlines and be like, go,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, Stephen,
Speaker 1: you know, we we had that discussion while um, you know,
Speaker 1: we were sort of like coming up with the format
Speaker 1: and this is not a totally original format, you know,
Speaker 1: like there are other filmmakers that do this and do
Speaker 1: it really really well. Um, and we were inspired by them.
Speaker 1: But but you know, I remember Stephen saying, you know
Speaker 1: early on, like this is like not far off from
Speaker 1: what Moving to Beach was, you know, like and uh
Speaker 1: so yeah. And the actually our our director of photograph
Speaker 1: for the second season, Gareth Cox. He's a director of
Speaker 1: photography for this show called CSA Key on MTV with
Speaker 1: My husband is obsessed obsessed. Oh I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the one, right, It's about its occasially lauda Beach
Speaker 1: in the Four Keys. Dude. Yeah. J d M is
Speaker 1: a big fan of CRS. I love how much he
Speaker 1: loves trashy reality. God, I love it so much. And
Speaker 1: you believe he's never watched ours, um, James, speaking of
Speaker 1: funny storylines, obviously, we make a lot of fun of
Speaker 1: ourselves on this podcast, and your character has been through
Speaker 1: some wild adventures, whether you're doing shit with Chris Keller,
Speaker 1: or you're getting beat up by Rick Fox, like well
Speaker 1: the Russian Mafia. Yeah, Like what were the storylines for
Speaker 1: you that you look back on now as a grown
Speaker 1: up and you're just like, oh god, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: is there anything you ever went in and you were
Speaker 1: like really really like his anyway we can? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there was a couple, um, you know, even even
Speaker 1: some of the wilder stuff we did, you know, like
Speaker 1: the Rick Fox of it all, or like you know,
Speaker 1: being you know, held hostage by serbian gangsters. Like there
Speaker 1: was always something fun to find in there, and and
Speaker 1: honestly it always tested me the most. Like I found
Speaker 1: it much easier to you know, you know, play um,
Speaker 1: you know, an emotional scene with you Joy than I did,
Speaker 1: you know, having to get emotional and scenes like that
Speaker 1: because I'd never done like an action movie. I'd never
Speaker 1: done a horror movie or anything like that. Like I'd
Speaker 1: never conjured up those emotions from a situation that you
Speaker 1: know is absurd on set, right. Yeah, you gotta like
Speaker 1: your challenge is to really make that real. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's not hard to make something real with you, Joy,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to make something real, you know, with
Speaker 1: with other situations, and so I always felt like going
Speaker 1: into those I was nervous, but at the same time
Speaker 1: it was like, all right, how are we gonna how
Speaker 1: are we gonna do this? Like how we like we
Speaker 1: got to make the audience believe this and so yeah,
Speaker 1: well and for our friends at home. One of the
Speaker 1: things when you reference why some of that stuff can
Speaker 1: be hard, you know, to your point, if you guys
Speaker 1: are shooting a scene as Nathan and Haley, you're in
Speaker 1: close quarters, you're looking at each other, you get to
Speaker 1: react to what she's doing. She gets to react to
Speaker 1: what you're doing. One of the things people don't know about,
Speaker 1: you know, the Rick Fox storyline, for example, is they'll
Speaker 1: do the crash, but they only do the crash in
Speaker 1: the wide shots because there's one vehicle, and so you'll
Speaker 1: be on camera and you're close up, and they'll be
Speaker 1: like someone's running by with a tennis ball on a
Speaker 1: c stand for your eyeline, and then they go and boom,
Speaker 1: and you're supposed to react like you're watching your wife
Speaker 1: get hit by a car, but it's there's nothing happening,
Speaker 1: and it's so insane. So the challenge to create realism
Speaker 1: you know how big it's wild? Yeah, seriously, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's that's the biggest challenge I feel like. And then
Speaker 1: you know, like like to use that as an example,
Speaker 1: you have the crash which you're supposed to react to, um,
Speaker 1: and then they go around and they cover every single
Speaker 1: actor who's there reacting to it. And then two hours later,
Speaker 1: you're still reacting to the crash that happened, you know,
Speaker 1: earlier in the day or whatever it could be, six
Speaker 1: hours later and you're like, I'm still supposed to be
Speaker 1: up or you have no idea what the crash is
Speaker 1: going to look like. They just sort of give you
Speaker 1: an idea of it. But then you see the stunt
Speaker 1: that they do later and you're like, I would have
Speaker 1: had a way bigger reaction, you know. Smaller reaction, yeah,
Speaker 1: always great when they shoot the action lasts, so they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: react to the thing that's going to happen, and you're like,
Speaker 1: but I haven't seen it yet. He just had to
Speaker 1: make it up, James. We solicited for questions for this episode,
Speaker 1: and we solicit for questions for all of our guests. UM,
Speaker 1: We've never had an avalanche like this before. So we're
Speaker 1: going to do some rapid fire fan questions. Well boys
Speaker 1: should idea. Yeah, let's feel like you just blow through them.
Speaker 1: But I want to start I peruse these. I have
Speaker 1: a question that I need to ask. Um. Okay, listen,
Speaker 1: you always had strong little brother energy for me because
Speaker 1: I met you as like a child. But Marissa would
Speaker 1: love to know about your thoughts on your hair in
Speaker 1: season four because when you showed up with long hair,
Speaker 1: that was the first time I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: James is like hot, James is like dangerous, excellent hair,
Speaker 1: dangerous lafferty. I have a note here, hair question mark. Well, no,
Speaker 1: no question mark, no question mark, hair exclamation point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: loved it. Hey, is that what we're calling this episode?
Speaker 1: Hair exclamation boy? Yeah? It was like suddenly, I don't
Speaker 1: know what that was, you know what, you know what
Speaker 1: I think it was. It was I think they were
Speaker 1: growing my hair. I was growing my hair out in
Speaker 1: anticipation for season five. Yeah, when they were going to
Speaker 1: flash back and forth between when Um, I had like,
Speaker 1: what was it they needed to show, you know, they
Speaker 1: needed to show that there was like a difference in
Speaker 1: the timelines and so oh and I was like, I
Speaker 1: had really long hair because I had fallen. You know,
Speaker 1: I was like in a wheelchair and I was not
Speaker 1: taking care of myself, and so yeah, they decided that
Speaker 1: it was going to be easier. Oh god, they didn't
Speaker 1: want to wig me because the wig would look fake.
Speaker 1: So they needed me to grow my hair out long
Speaker 1: enough so that they could attach extensions to it. Um.
Speaker 1: And then that way they could go back and forth
Speaker 1: between haftensions. Yeah, I had extensions, and then they and
Speaker 1: then they then they cut my hair, my actual head
Speaker 1: hair into tiny, tiny little pieces um, and they put
Speaker 1: in a little tray with some glue on it, and
Speaker 1: then they took a paintbrush and then they paint did
Speaker 1: the glue hair on my face. That's how I had
Speaker 1: that big beard. It was awesome. That's that's so I
Speaker 1: was like there like three three hours early every day. Wow,
Speaker 1: they have the extensions and then get that glue on
Speaker 1: the face and then why didn't you just grow? Oh?
Speaker 1: Because they had to go back and forth, so they couldn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I also couldn't grow a beard. Oh you couldn't.
Speaker 1: I mean I could maybe grow like it wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been a fun beard to TV, for sure, that's so funny.
Speaker 1: It was a hit. Okay, if you could have chosen
Speaker 1: to direct the pilot or the finale, which one the pilot?
Speaker 1: I guess? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think the
Speaker 1: pilot because um yeah, I don't know. Okay, it's a
Speaker 1: rapid fire. You don't have to explain yourself. Yeah yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: Oh sorry knocking them out. Were there any storylines that
Speaker 1: the writers pitched to you for Nathan that then didn't
Speaker 1: wind up happening but you wished you'd gotten to film? No,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. There was talk of Nathan like
Speaker 1: making it to the NBA, but I don't think the
Speaker 1: NBA would really, Um, let us do what we needed
Speaker 1: to do to make that storyline happen. That would have
Speaker 1: been cool, but but what it didn't happen, so so
Speaker 1: I guess maybe that maybe that can see. Yeah, did
Speaker 1: you keep anything from set? I kept some. I kept
Speaker 1: the signature sneakers that Nathan had in season at the
Speaker 1: beginning of season five when he was like when it
Speaker 1: was all good, he got his contract and his shoe
Speaker 1: deal and stuff, So I yeah, I kept what other
Speaker 1: character besides Nathan? Would you want to play Whitey? Oh?
Speaker 1: I was watching the episode last night. I was like, God,
Speaker 1: I love this guy like I love Barry and I
Speaker 1: love Whitey. Did you ever go drinking with Whitey? I did? Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a couple of times. We didn't run in the same circles,
Speaker 1: but I definitely, I definitely saw him out. Yeah. Sure,
Speaker 1: Oh that's so fun. Okay, that's a perfect segue into
Speaker 1: Will's question. Whitey was an important coach and figure in
Speaker 1: Nathan's life. Who has been a similar coach or figure
Speaker 1: in your life? Oh? Good question. Yeah, I guess. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, my acting coach Andrew mcgarrian was a big,
Speaker 1: you know influence on me and especially in as a
Speaker 1: young person in this industry. Just um taught me a
Speaker 1: lot of m foundational stuff about you know, acting, but
Speaker 1: also about how to be a professional. So yeah, hmm, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Well he nailed that. Yeah. I mean, for sure, James,
Speaker 1: everyone everyone in our industry working at the age that
Speaker 1: we were working at stop in one way or another.
Speaker 1: And you are one of the few unicorns that never
Speaker 1: do you never? No, that's not true. I mean every
Speaker 1: I was young, you know, like I was not. I
Speaker 1: was certainly certainly not perfect. But um, but I had.
Speaker 1: I definitely had. You know, you always had a good
Speaker 1: head on your shoulders. Yeah, you know, good family. I've
Speaker 1: been really, really fortunate in life, so I think that
Speaker 1: that helped, and you know, people like Andrew helped, and
Speaker 1: you know, there was good influences on the show as well.
Speaker 1: Like you know, um, I'll never forget Kriig Shefferd telling
Speaker 1: me to save my money. But that all stuck with me,
Speaker 1: It really did. He had a great explanation for it.
Speaker 1: And he didn't tell me in like a condescending way
Speaker 1: or in a way that you know, made me feel
Speaker 1: like I didn't know anything. He was. He was genuinely
Speaker 1: trying to help me. Um, And at the time you
Speaker 1: probably thought, like, this kid's never gonna hear a word
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But I heard him like loud and clear.
Speaker 1: So getting that advice from Craig from this perspective that
Speaker 1: you're in today, we have a last kind of maybe
Speaker 1: a perfect last fan question is what advice would you
Speaker 1: give Nathan today about life? Oh? Man, I feel like
Speaker 1: I should be getting advice from Nathan, not giving it
Speaker 1: to him, or give advice to a young version of
Speaker 1: yourself even right right, It's like Yeah, anything I could
Speaker 1: say to Nathan. I feel like he already kind of knew,
Speaker 1: but I feel like I would say or maybe remind him,
Speaker 1: or remind anyone that, like anything, anything worth doing is
Speaker 1: going to probably be pretty hard, and it's going to
Speaker 1: take a lot of time and dedication, but you can
Speaker 1: definitely do it um and just try to just just
Speaker 1: try not to lose yourself along the way, you know,
Speaker 1: just no matter how hard it gets, and no matter
Speaker 1: how you know, I guess how much it feels like
Speaker 1: you're not going to get there sometimes, just try to
Speaker 1: be kind to yourself and be kind to others and
Speaker 1: and and you'll you'll get there. Like it'll happen, and
Speaker 1: it might happen in a way that you don't expect,
Speaker 1: but it's going to happen. Well, James, it's like the
Speaker 1: perfect advicement for this episode. Hey, listen, we're so excited
Speaker 1: that we have you because everyone's been asked few for
Speaker 1: years now. Yes, we just watched for eighteen. Would you
Speaker 1: stay and do a recap episode off eighteen with us? Oh?
Speaker 1: Absolutely perfect, perfect, Let's rock it out, all right, kids,
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week with four eighteen. Hey, thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You
Speaker 1: can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens oth
Speaker 1: or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
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