WEBVTT - Family 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.840 At some point you decided you were going to make 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:10.320 an album. Yeah, what what kind of headspace were you 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.520 in when you even started writing. I just needed to 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.720 do something to like not think about these things. I 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:18.520 didn't even know I was doing it. I was just 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.520 writing stuff down and then I started making some beats. 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:32.120 The album came out and did well tag and Contnspoma. 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:39.160 I remember people were saying that this is proof that 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:45.360 Tableau didn't really need those degrees to become uh this 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.560 this renowned musician. I think in some of the reviews, 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.040 I think that there was sort of this this narrative 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:58.280 that Ah Tableau has surmounted and overcome these issues, you know, 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.480 these attacks. He's one, He's back our triumph art trying 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.759 to the power of music. Tablow has overcome and paining 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.160 creates the most beautiful art. I heard that a lot. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.360 They did proclaim it as like a triumphant moment. At 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.240 this point, I wasn't like completely all there. It's just 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.000 a weird feeling, you know, you know, like whole like 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:23.679 suffering creates the best art, and it made me think 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.360 that it's not worth it. Art's not worth that much suffering, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.800 So like for it to be a comeback really just 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.720 wasn't It wasn't anna come back yet. When Tableau's solo album, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.800 Fever's End came out in November of two thou eleven, 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.479 music magazines were praising the record, which he deserved. This 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.360 was some of Tableau's best work ever, and in general, 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.640 the press was marveling and how he'd overcome this difficult 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.200 time in his life. But Tableau wasn't paying attention to 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.360 any of that. He was more focused on getting past 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:03.480 the damage that Tajose campaign had done to his personal life. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.360 It would be a while, but Tableau would eventually realize 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.400 that Tad had not only altered his life, but his 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.200 family's lives forever. At the same time, when the press 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.600 declared his triumphant comeback, when he was finally free from 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.520 the accusations and the rumors and free to be the 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.880 artist the Tableau that everyone now finally believed that he was, 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:35.120 that he experienced the worst year of his life. Feena 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:46.440 fip HOPI tipp what the signs my name? Whenever I 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.040 can run, I can keep writing there my books on 0:02:50.080 --> 0:03:02.960 the Worst Tame the Mark Yeah Boo from Vice and 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:09.800 I Heart I'm Dexa Thomas and This is Authentic Episode seven. Family. 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.040 In July of two thousand eleven, a journalist named Joshua 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.640 Davis flew from the US to South Korea to write 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.560 a story about the Tajan No scandal for Wired magazine. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.920 He had already done one article for another magazine, and 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.000 he wanted to do a more in depth piece that 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.080 would include an interview with Tableau himself. Some of the 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.360 most disturbing details from that article aren't from quotes from 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.040 the interviews, it's from the descriptions. The first time he 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.480 meets Tableau, the reporter describes him as looking quote crazed. 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.680 He says that Tableau was holding a cigarette, but he 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.720 never lit it and his eyes kept darting nervously across 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.880 the room. In the second interview with Tableau, the journalist 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.960 brought up something during his reporting. He'd spoken to some 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.720 Tajeno members, and these members told them that their basis 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.000 for believing the rumors, the credibility came from someone who 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.600 was close to Tableau. How did you feel knowing that 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:14.600 there are family members, Howard Distant who were being implicated 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.640 in these attacks against you. To tell you the truth, 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.200 I wasn't surprised you weren't surprised. Yeah, I wasn't surprised 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:26.680 because you know, like I didn't get to choose my relatives. 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.960 They didn't get to choose me. Right. This wasn't the 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.480 first time Tableau had heard this. During the police interrogation. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.440 Almost a year prior to that, the police had brought 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:41.919 up a name that he recognized, Sam Cho, Who's a 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:47.640 cousin that I actually know and uh I went to 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:53.360 Stanford with apparently was writing things about me. Sam Cho 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.600 was the cousin Tableau had lunch with when he got 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.080 to Stanford, And the first thing he said to me, 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:03.520 how did you get into Stafford? Really? Yea? I was like, 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:09.120 all right, Sam, let's just see. After he graduated, Tableau 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.880 says he didn't really think much about his cousin Sam 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.560 until Sam's name came up in connection with Tajano. So 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:17.360 I have to take a couple of steps back here 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.560 to give you the backstory on why Sam's name ever 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.360 came up in the first place. It actually involves another scandal, 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:32.640 this time involving Tableau's brother and a comedy show. See 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.960 back in two thousand nine, there was this game show 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.760 on Korean TV called Infinite Challenge It had an episode 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.719 where the contestants went to New York and complete challenges, 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:47.160 but they had to do it in English. Yeah, I'm 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:53.000 gonna cut well, I don't number one. At the time, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.040 Tabloo's brother David was a host of another TV show. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.520 This was an educational show where he taught English, and 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.039 what David saw on Infinity Challenge really set him off. 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.919 It looked to him like the contestants were pretending to 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.520 be bad at English and playing it all up for laughs. 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.000 David was an educator and so even though this was 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.960 a comedy show, he didn't like the image of smart 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.960 Koreans playing dumb. So on November twenty one, two thousand nine, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.359 he decided to write a post about it on his 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.479 blog Are you Fucking Serious? That is the one line 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.520 that he wrote in English. It's really long, so we'll 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.000 just kind of cover the main points and we'll have 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:36.720 someone else read it. Am I the only one who 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.640 thinks this? Or did those white boys make him into 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.839 a complete fool? I wonder what those white boys were thinking. Actually, 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.919 never mind, even if they said it out loud, the 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.360 Koreans wouldn't have understood. Perhaps they thought, what are these 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.359 fucking retards doing. I know you're being real for entertainment, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.360 but keep the local comedy in Korea please. Okay, since 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.240 when was it so humiliating to be a part of 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:06.960 the Korean race. David's blog post spread like wildfire. People 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.680 were pissed. First, there's the obvious, the vulgar language he used. 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.440 Not only is this not cool as a member of 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.760 a major broadcasting network, but most people knew him from 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.880 his TV appearances as this mild mannered teacher. I mean, 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.960 it was almost like watching Mr Rogers drop the F bomb. 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.640 It was shocking. But there's also the fact that he 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.600 was Tablow's brother. This was back when Tableau was at 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.720 the height of his fame. He was getting engaged and 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.320 preparing to have a baby. He and his family were 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.520 in the spotlight, and everyone gave off the impression of 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:46.040 a respectable, high achieving family, and that foul language rant 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.200 was far from what one would expect from that kind 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.640 of model family. David did end up apologizing, but the 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.280 damage had been done. This had all cast a shadow 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.520 over the public image of Tableau's family, which brings us 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:06.000 back to Sam Cho the controversy about David's blog. As 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.520 you can Imagine was making some waves in the news, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.000 and on one of the articles on the website of 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.800 a major newspaper, Sam cho posted a comment. But even 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.520 though the article itself was about David, Sam was writing 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.440 about Tableau. You could only get into a good school 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.200 because of your cousin's recommendation. Sole International School knows it, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.760 but they politely pretended that they didn't notice. Sole International 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.199 is the high school that Sam and Tableau both went 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.199 to in Korea. Sam is saying that Tableau wouldn't even 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.560 have gotten into such a prestigious university like Stanford if 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.280 it weren't for Sam himself recommending him, so he deserves 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.200 credit for that part of Tableau's early success. You are 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.240 not a top student at Stanford. You didn't even have 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.240 a high i Q, and you absolutely didn't get good 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.760 grades in high school. Everyone who studied at Stanford knows 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.600 that you took so called creative writing courses so you 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.720 can more easily get higher grades. It's not possible to 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.240 trace every comment that Sam ever wrote online about Tableau, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.000 because it's been so long that some of those original 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.040 articles might not exist anymore. But what we know for 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:14.720 sure is that before Tajanio ever started, Sam was regularly 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.800 writing comments and articles, not just articles about David, but 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.680 even in generic news articles about Tableau. So I have 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.680 to be clear here. We have seen absolutely no evidence 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.040 that sam Cho was ever part of the Tajano Forum, 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.720 and as a matter of fact, he publicly distanced himself 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.920 from them. When Tagano started, sam Cho wrote a post 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.800 on his blog and clarified that he did believe that 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.320 Tableau had graduated from Stanford, but he added that he 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.760 had doubts about Tableau being a so called genius. And 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.040 even though sam rejected their claims, TA Janio found that 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:54.079 last part very interesting and useful. Sam Cho was constantly 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.000 being referenced by Tajano members. The writer of the Wired 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.520 article even interviewed some members who said, quote, even this 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.200 guy who claims he's his cousin called him a liar. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.280 The truth is in the cousin's comments. I rely on 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:13.440 his statements in the court of Tajano opinion. Sam was 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.239 a valuable asset. Here was a guy who knew Tableau. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:22.160 I mean their cousins, but it's not that straightforward. They 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:31.040 are family, but they were never close when I went 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.600 to Canada. Before then, I didn't even know they existed. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.120 Sam's family had also immigrated to Canada around the same 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.160 time the Tableau's family moved there. It was pretty obvious, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.280 like right from the beginning that there was absolutely no 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:49.760 way we could become close or become friends. We were 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.560 just two completely different people. The White Tableau describes it, 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.640 he and Sam hung out once. It sounds like one 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.560 of those hangouts that immigrant families orchestrate to build a 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.240 community to be in a new place. This can be 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.800 really helpful and important for the adults who have limited 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.560 chances to make new friends. For kids, though, it can 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:16.120 feel kind of forced. He was accomplished violinist, and uh, 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.240 you know they made him play like they're well, they 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.440 made him play on the spot, I think, so. Yeah, 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.720 he did a recital for everybody. It was awkward, honestly, 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.240 and then the parents were like, you know, we're gonna talk, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.040 so you guys, you should go hang out in your 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.040 cousin's room. And I went, and I remember he was 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:39.120 playing a flight simulator like I think like German luftwaft 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.720 or something like that, like World War two flight simulator 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.720 kind of thing, and um, I was just sitting there 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.480 like watching him play that. Sam and his family moved 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.680 back to Korea a few years later, so when Tableau 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.719 went back to Seoul, Sam was already there, and so 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.520 he and Tableau found themselves at the same high school, 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.480 Sol International. And the strange thing is, you know, our 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.160 differences were even more visible by the time high school 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.320 rolled around, Like there was no even though he was 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.560 someone I had known kind of uh and sort of 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.440 related to me, Like, it was impossible for us to 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.120 have any interaction in school. And we also had to 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.560 cross paths, uh kind of in a way because of orchestra. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.760 I also played the violin, right, so we were in orchestra. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.200 But I was a horrible violin player, Like I was 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.560 just not a very good student, like in that way. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.280 So I was third violent, which is pretty much you know, 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.640 just kind of just there. He was first violent, and 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:51.880 he was like intense about that too. If you had 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:56.040 to visibly like decide who was the more likely to 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.360 funk up, It's probably gonna be me. These two cousins 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.800 had very similar upbringings and they both moved back to 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.440 Korea again around the same time. They had similar talents 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.360 for music, and they went to the same prestigious high school, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.880 which maybe isn't surprising. Tableau and Sam were operating in 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.600 the same immigrant ecosystem, with a pressure to succeed by 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.920 being talented. Going to the best schools and having access 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.720 to a Western education was seen as keys to success. 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.920 A lot of kids probably had similar experiences, which, now, 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.800 if you're putting the pieces together, Uh, it's it's almost scary. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.000 How like there's a parallel here. I did not know 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:40.960 these parallels existed. Like other things happened, and you know, 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:42.959 time went on, there are other things to think about. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:48.920 I was living my life. Sam and Tableau's relationship honestly 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.800 doesn't sound all that unique. I mean, this is why 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.560 comedians are always making jokes about having to see relatives 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.560 you don't like during Thanksgiving, or watching your family post 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.440 and wild racist memes on Facebook. Just because your cousins 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.760 doesn't mean that you're destined to be friends. But when 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:09.160 the conspiracy theories started winding up, nobody knew about that dynamic. 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.120 All that anyone on Tadano saw was Tableau's own cousin 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:18.680 questioning his intelligence. That's all the context they needed or wanted. 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.400 And again, when Sam saw what Tajo was posting, he 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.360 wrote on his blog that they were wrong that Tableau 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.120 did graduate from Stanford, but it was too late. A 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.520 lot of people in taj you know, they were really 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.560 going off of, well, his cousin is saying these things, 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.520 because it's like, how bad much this Tableau or just 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:45.400 Daniel guy b if his own cousin's saying this. One 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.720 user wrote, the Tableau controversy would not have intensified and 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.560 grown so much if you have not spoken out against Tableau. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.160 Even if these kinds of rumors were already out there, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:07.800 they became firm because of Mr Joe. When we first 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.200 reached out to Sam to ask him about these comments 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:15.400 and his interactions with Tableau, he didn't respond. I could 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.480 see why a lot of people have kind of painted 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.000 Sam as being one of the reasons that Tidano started off, 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:28.320 when that's not really accurate. But now that ten years 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.800 have passed, I wonder what Sam thought about all this, 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:38.120 not just about Tableau, but about the bigger picture of 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:45.400 what this all meant. So we kept trying to contact him. 0:15:45.400 --> 0:16:20.240 Finally he responded, m Hi, Stephanie, this is Sam. It 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.600 seems you reached out to me several times to hear 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.520 my side of this story on Daniel Lee's Tableau's scandal 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.920 in South Korea about a decade ago. We wanted to 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.000 see if Sam remembered all the interactions that Tablood told 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.960 us about. Sam told us that he does remember their 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.080 families hanging out in Canada, but he says they got 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.880 together more than once. He also says that they had 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.520 first met in the eighties, back in Korea, when Tableau 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.680 was just a little kid who was into G I. Joe's. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:52.560 He also recalls the relationship at Stanford very differently. Remember 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.480 the lunch that Tableau told us about where Sam rudely 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:59.480 asked how he even got into Stanford. Well, Sam says 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.480 he would never say anything like that, and he actually 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.959 remembers hanging out with Tableau several times during college. I 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.560 wanted to interview Sam like I've interviewed everyone else. He 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.960 said no, but he did send us an email, and 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:14.800 he agreed to let us have a voice act or 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.480 read his letter as long as we didn't change anything. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.440 So here's what he had to say. I don't want 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.920 to get too involved in what seems to be Daniel's 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.200 old personal troubles, but since there were quite a few 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.480 misconceptions and false rumors, I will clarify some serious factual 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.480 distortions and misunderstandings through this opportunity for the benefit of 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.120 the public. He starts out by talking about Tableau's TV appearances. 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.320 The false storytelling by Daniel Lee about himself and his 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.240 self aggrandizing behaviors was persistent for many years, and the 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.840 Korean audience began to doubt his overall credibility, and he 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.439 gives some examples of what he calls Tableau's exaggerations. Dan's 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.800 major in English and Creative Writing at Stanford was largely 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:02.240 self designed with massive, great inflationary characteristics compared to more quantitative, 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.840 stem oriented majors at Stanford. Sam says that because of this, 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.000 Tableau didn't accurately reflect what one would expect of real 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.400 academic success at a prestigious school like Stanford. In my opinion, 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:18.080 the patternley false yet viral rumor that Daniel Lee was 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.240 not a Stanford graduate was a culmination of the ever 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:25.000 growing public doubt on Daniel's past based on his dubious 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.840 and not so credible storytelling behaviors over TV and radio 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.960 broadcasts in Korea. So I have to say here that 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.600 we have extensively fact checked Table's credentials, and we haven't 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.800 found anything that is dubious. But in any case, Sam 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.400 stressed that he never had anything to do with Tajanio. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.520 I have nothing to do with Tableau's anti fans and 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.840 anti fan side creations in Korea. I did not start it, 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.760 I did not participate in it. I was never an 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.920 anti Tableau fan member. In fact, Sam made it clear 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.840 that he doesn't see his comments at fault in feeding 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:03.680 the conspiracy. Remember he publicly said that he believed Tableau 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.760 went to Stanford. Sam thinks there's something else at play 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.240 when people bring up those old comments he posted back 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.320 in two thousand nine. Ultimately, I think Daniel Lee and 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.359 his fan base wanted a convenient scape yards living far 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.840 outside of their social networks to blame because in their 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:23.600 disorted minds, Dan Lee's victim play is more effective that way. 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.800 When I was in Korea, I read a few parts 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.280 of Sam's letter to Tableau to see what he thought 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.879 about it. More or less closed by saying, at this 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.600 time of my life, I simply regard Daniel Lee as 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.840 a boy who cried wolf when the wolves came down 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.040 and imperiled him on his academic pedigree. Many people in 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.600 Korea chose not to believe him anymore because his past 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.800 storytelling was not credible. He's probably playing victim to this day. 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.000 But it is my sincere belief that the entire credibility 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.560 trouble for Daniel is his own doing and serves as 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.560 a modern lesson of Aesop's fable for some people. And 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.320 in the case, I hope that he's learned of valuable 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:05.960 lesson and wish him all the best. I didn't cry wolf. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:11.800 They they sent the wolves, you know, they intentionally sent 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:17.160 wolves after me, and then as I was being eaten alive, 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.040 they told themselves that I'm the one who cried wolf, 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:27.919 so that they feel less guilty about it. It's unfortunate 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:33.520 that he thinks that, um, but not surprising honestly, because 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.560 that was the narrative from the get go. And this 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.640 is discounting the fact that I did defend myself. They 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.280 just didn't accept it. I just I just want to 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.840 say that it strikes me that over the last days 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.879 of talking to you, this is our producer Kate and 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.800 talking and like the center of the scandal being about education, 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.720 and you spending days talking to us about the intense 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:03.040 educational pressure or that you were under that. Clearly Samuel 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:08.600 Cho was also under, as was generations of Korean children. 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:10.919 To be honest, what it feels like to me is 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:16.520 like a primal scream from an entire society of people 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.760 who don't know what to do with this pressure. Yea, 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.240 you know the fact that we we went to so 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.920 many like you know, we crossed paths with these schools, 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.680 the same high school, same college, um, but the way 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.840 we did it was so different. Like I really feel 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.199 like he was I don't know if you put it 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.720 on himself or if his parents forced it on him, 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:43.639 but I believe that he was um, like he was 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:51.760 applied in intense pressure to achieve. Today, Sam says he 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.000 doesn't really think much about the scandal. He sees himself 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.600 basically just as a bystander or as an observer whose 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.640 comments got taken out of content. Next, he still believes 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.440 that Tableau's own actions and his brother David's comments kind 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.240 of primed the pump for this whole conspiracy. He actually 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.720 seemed to be a little offended at the idea that 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.040 his comments had anything to do with the way that 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.200 things escalated the way they did. I find it interesting 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:18.640 that some people think that I should have refrained from 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:23.280 such comments. Why I don't yet live under a tutalitarian 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:27.400 regime here in the United States. It is an American tradition, 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.359 let alone the legal right to protect, respect, or even 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:35.960 celebrate the well informed, intellectual opinions of people. Needless to say, 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.879 I'm a super happy citizen of the United States and 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.760 have been for over twenty years. I have never lived 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.560 in South Korea since my freshman year at Stanford in 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.760 seven on a permanent basis, So I should say here 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.280 that we weren't able to reach Tableau's brother, David Lee 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:53.920 to ask him about any of this, but our producer 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.200 did talk to Sam one final time over the phone, 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.000 just to see if he had any other thoughts. They 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.560 started talking about education and pressure again, and he didn't 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.920 say much about his own personal experience. But Sam did 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:07.879 say that he does think there is a heightened pressure 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.600 to succeed in Korea, and that's sort of one of 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.480 the only things that both he and Tableau seemed to 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:17.399 agree on. If you watch how I raised my daughter 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:22.919 like I am through showing through action what I didn't 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.359 like about it, I'm raising her in a different way, 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:30.000 and I don't really share it because there's no venue 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:32.080 for me to share it really, and it's just my 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:37.960 private matter. But funny thing, my daughter said to me, Hey, Daddy, 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:42.600 is Stanford really nice? She asked me. She's eleven, right, 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:48.320 And I think she said this because her cousin was 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:51.600 told by someone that you know, maybe like you, you 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:55.520 should grow up in go to Stanford and mentioned it 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:59.000 to how do And I guess how do it because 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.800 she talked mommy and Mommy's like, oh, that's the school dad, 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.959 daddy went to. So how do? Came and asked me, 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:10.120 And in my heart, I'm like, that's like not what 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.159 I demand of you or expect of you, Like I 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:15.879 want you to do your thing. And I was like, 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:17.960 why do you want to go to Stanford? And she 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:22.640 said because I heard there's a shopping center on campus. 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:25.760 And I was just put a smile on my face 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:28.840 right because thank god it was me. I was able 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:35.040 to come out kind of unscathed, if you discount like 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:40.480 these things happening to me. But I've had friends in 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:44.399 college that that weren't able to make it out alive. 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.920 Tablo says he came out kind of unscathed, but after 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:58.000 spending days with him to close to twenty hours of interviews. 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:02.560 I gotta say I think he might be overestimating himself here. 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:07.959 Tableau was under incredible pressure to succeed, and to his credit, 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:12.199 he absolutely met his parents expectations for his childhood, a 0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:17.520 Western education in elite high school, a prestigious college. Now, 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:20.760 when he graduated, he decided to take another path. His 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:24.359 parents hated this and continually told him that he was 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:27.800 screwing up. But he did it anyway, and he proved 0:25:27.840 --> 0:25:31.280 that he was right. But then again, the demands that 0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.280 his parents put on him helped his career, so in 0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:38.760 a way they were right too. That pressure, both internal 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:42.760 and external, that unresolved conflict. It turned him into who 0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:46.280 he is today, but it also left him with a 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:50.760 lot of scars and a lot of doubts, especially when 0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:53.040 it comes to his family. When I see my friends 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:57.240 or you know, things, see the things that they've accomplished, 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:01.600 UM sometimes have like, you know that that may have 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.560 been the safer path that my parents wanted. And if 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:09.239 I had taken that path, regardless of whether or not 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:13.360 I would have enjoyed it, Um, none of what happened 0:26:13.400 --> 0:26:16.480