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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Daron, welcome.

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Speaker 1: Back to the Book of Joe Podcasts with me, Tom

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Speaker 1: Berducci and Joe Madden, and welcome Joe Madden to June.

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Speaker 1: I know on the Joe Madden baseball calendar, things that

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Speaker 1: are really starting to speed up.

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Speaker 3: They are. And actually the weather has too.

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Speaker 4: The temperature, my god, it's been rainy and wet up here,

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Speaker 4: like I think a lot of the Northeast, the temperatures

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Speaker 4: have been kind of like spring or fall like today.

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Speaker 4: Eighty five golf tournament happening to my left. I'll be

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Speaker 4: out there pretty soon. Just got back from Nashville. Tommy

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Speaker 4: and I did the Tunnel to Towers event down there. Stirring, moving,

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Speaker 4: incredibly passionate. The program is just so well done. While

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Speaker 4: he Joiner Fellow that I signed several years ago, he

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Speaker 4: was the kind of the host for this whole event

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Speaker 4: out of Brentwood Country Club. Really, like I said, I

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Speaker 4: really fortunate that they asked me to come there just

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Speaker 4: to witness this whole thing. We sat with Lee Greenwood

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Speaker 4: and his wife the night before, had dinner. Just truly

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Speaker 4: an inspirational weekend. So it's been a good couple days.

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Speaker 1: Did you have time to check out the live music

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Speaker 1: scene in Nashville?

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Speaker 3: Did not?

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Speaker 4: I mean got there Saturday night, late flight out of Philly,

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Speaker 4: of course, and then get there and write to dinner

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Speaker 4: at a thirty in the evening, get up the next

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Speaker 4: morning we go play Troubadour.

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Speaker 3: The Troubadour I ever heard of it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard of it, have not played.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's like it's utopia. It's a utopian society.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how much that place costs, but it's

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Speaker 4: ridiculously utopian. And so we played that course the next day.

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Speaker 4: Brentwood also wonderful. So yeah, there was like, no, there

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Speaker 4: was no time down to do anything other than that

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Speaker 4: go out to a couple dinners and have and meet

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Speaker 4: some really inspirational people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll have to go back, I'm sure really good town.

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Speaker 1: Lots to do there, and maybe one day a major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball team in that city. Yes, for now there

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Speaker 1: should be to have their hopes up that maybe they

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Speaker 1: will be in the next round of expansion.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 1: But Joe, we've talked unfortunately a little too much this

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Speaker 1: year about managerial moves and firings and You've got to

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Speaker 1: help me out on this one. This is a new

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Speaker 1: one for me. The Atlanta Braves get rid of their

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Speaker 1: third base coach. I've obviously seen hitting coaches and pitching

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Speaker 1: coaches us as kind of a warning shot to manageers, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you better get things straightened out.

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Speaker 2: This is a new one on me. The Atlanta Braves

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Speaker 2: got rid of Matt.

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Speaker 1: TUIs and Sopo their third base coach, replaced him with

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Speaker 1: Freddy Gonzalez.

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Speaker 2: Freddy's obviously a great baseball guy.

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Speaker 1: He's managed and been a third base coach in Atlanta before.

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Speaker 2: They're very familiar with Freddy.

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Speaker 1: This is more about making a change in the middle

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Speaker 1: of a season with a third base coach. You got

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Speaker 1: to help me out, Joe. I can't recall this happening before.

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Speaker 3: No, that is unusual.

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Speaker 4: There's something there obviously that they're not talking about it all.

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Speaker 3: And again, I hate to beat.

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Speaker 4: This horse, but it sounds like as he had several

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Speaker 4: guys thrown out at the plate they consider poor decision making.

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Speaker 4: Or is it is he also in charge of the infielders.

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Speaker 4: Theres something else like that that they don't like. What's

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Speaker 4: going on there. There's more to it. Than just that

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Speaker 4: it is very unusual to do something like that. I

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Speaker 4: would imagine getting signs from the bench is not an issue.

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Speaker 4: Getting signs and the players on time should not be

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Speaker 4: an issue. So there's something else.

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Speaker 3: Going on there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me you ask the question as a very

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Speaker 1: good question, because I thought the same thing the general

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Speaker 1: manager Alexanthopolis.

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Speaker 2: By the way, he said it is fourteen years.

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Speaker 1: This is the first time he's ever made a change

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Speaker 1: in the coaching staff in the middle of a season.

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Speaker 1: So there's that to begin with, a very unusual move.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that he brought up was there have

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Speaker 1: been some aggressive sins.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we could do better.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 1: Now, let me give you some numbers, Joe, because we

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Speaker 1: all like to have the data to support theory. Right right,

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Speaker 1: The Atlanta bread have had six runners thrown out the

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Speaker 1: plate this year. That's league average six runners thrown out

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Speaker 1: at home this year. That doesn't sound like aggressive SEMs

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Speaker 1: are costing the Braves runs here, It's just strictly a

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Speaker 1: league average. When it comes to overall outs on the bases,

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta Braves have had only fifteen runners thrown out. Now,

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Speaker 1: they're not a really fast team. I wouldn't say necessarily,

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Speaker 1: so they don't take a lot of chances. But that's

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Speaker 1: twenty first in baseball. I just by data alone, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I am not seeing it now. There was a high

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Speaker 1: profile play where Eli White was a tying run on

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Speaker 1: second base and a line drive single was hit the

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Speaker 1: center field to Jackson Merrill, and Eli White took off running.

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Speaker 1: The third base coach Tuosa Sopa at the time held

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Speaker 1: him up. But before Eli White got the third base,

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Speaker 1: for some unknown reason other than brain cramp, he stopped

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Speaker 1: and ran back to second base and then was put

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Speaker 1: out after the ball was cut off. Now my issue

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Speaker 1: there with two Ysasapa, he has his hands up to

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Speaker 1: stop them. I like my third base coaches when they're

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Speaker 1: stopping a runner to give very distinct hand signals, like

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Speaker 1: if you want them to hold the bag, point to

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Speaker 1: the base, don't just put your hands up.

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Speaker 2: Having hands up.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he confused Eli White like, hey, you better hold

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Speaker 1: up because that ball might be caught. But in any case,

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Speaker 1: if he thinks the ball is going to be caught

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Speaker 1: or caught, he's got to keep running anyway. He's not

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Speaker 1: going to get back to second base if he took

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Speaker 1: off on the swing of the bat, that's right to me.

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Speaker 1: It was a runner, brain crab, that's all there was.

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Speaker 1: I can't lay this on the third base coach.

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Speaker 2: It got a lot of run.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: People just shook their heads like, how does this happen

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Speaker 1: in the major leagues. It was just a weird play.

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Speaker 1: I can't put that on the third base coach. So

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Speaker 1: if you're telling me the Braves who are under five hundred,

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Speaker 1: the way to attack their quote unquote problems is to

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Speaker 1: get rid of the third base coach when he's had

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Speaker 1: quote unquote aggressive sense and only six players throw out

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Speaker 1: the plate. I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's there's there's. It goes deeper than that. I

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Speaker 4: would have to believe there might have been some arguments

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Speaker 4: involved with this. Uh, the the analytical department getting involved,

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Speaker 4: really pounding into the GM said that these are bad sins.

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Speaker 3: We need to do something here.

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm certain there's all these different dialogues going on,

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Speaker 4: narratives that are being created. My first question would be

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Speaker 4: how many outs where they're on the sense of the plate.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if there's two outs, it's a two out situation,

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Speaker 4: you're you know, you're desperate to score runs. Who's on deck,

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Speaker 4: who's in the hole. What part of the game is

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Speaker 4: that all that stuff matters? The context does matter. Whathi's

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Speaker 4: the ballpark? Where's the ballpark is in Fenway? Getting guys

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Speaker 4: frown under the plate really can happen a lot if

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Speaker 4: you're going to be aggressive with two outs, which you

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Speaker 4: should be going on and on here base running. This

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Speaker 4: sounds like he might be the base running coach too.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if that's true or not, because if

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Speaker 4: they're blaming all these base running gaps, they're blaming it

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Speaker 4: on this third base coaches in their their mind's eye,

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Speaker 4: they're making up the this, this this narrative that he's

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Speaker 4: made mistakes, whereas they don't like the base running overall,

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Speaker 4: they don't like their numbers.

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Speaker 3: There's there's so much, there's so much.

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Speaker 4: Going on right here, and like you're talking about the sign,

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Speaker 4: it is a cramp I've had. God bless them. Randy

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Speaker 4: Vallardi one of my favorite players of all time. Randy

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Speaker 4: would run till he was thrown out. Calando Palmyra would

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Speaker 4: run till he was thrown out. Carl Crawford at one

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Speaker 4: of the worst baseball base running decisions. I've ever been

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Speaker 4: around at the Metrodome years ago where we could have

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Speaker 4: tied the game, were gone ahead. I can't remember exactly what,

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Speaker 4: but he returned to a bag. It happens. It happens.

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Speaker 4: Guys get confused. And you know, regardless of all the

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Speaker 4: wonderful stuff you do in advance, and you do as

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Speaker 4: a third base coach, every situation, you look at your runner,

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Speaker 4: hold the number of outs up you want to return,

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Speaker 4: sign how many outs you you're pointing in different directions

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Speaker 4: you're looking, you're pointing at the outfielder's nowhere they're lined up.

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Speaker 3: Makes you understand this.

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Speaker 4: But if this guy made the break on time and

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Speaker 4: then decided to return, he probably was confused somehow.

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Speaker 3: But there's a lot.

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Speaker 4: Going I said, this is I'm not into this stuff

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Speaker 4: firing coaches unless there is a reason within the clubhouse

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Speaker 4: that it became toxic, and they're not even talking about that.

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Speaker 3: That's a potentiality.

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Speaker 4: But just to say that he was overly aggressive with

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Speaker 4: the league average number of outs and then tell me

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Speaker 4: what were the situations, and who are the arms and

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Speaker 4: who is the base runner and all this stuff, all

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Speaker 4: the context matters. To just go and say that that's

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Speaker 4: way too broad for me.

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Speaker 2: I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, getting six guys thrown out at the plate

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Speaker 1: when it's league average. To me, that's not a reason

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Speaker 1: to fire somebody. So there probably is more to it.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget. The Braves have lost some veteran coaches in

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Speaker 1: the last few years. Ron Washington was their previous third

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Speaker 1: base coach. Of course, he went to manage the Angels,

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Speaker 1: Eric Young junior Kevin Sitzer. And this is maybe connected,

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Speaker 1: but not really connected. Joe, I'm not sure if you

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Speaker 1: saw it in Philadelphia the other day when A J.

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Speaker 1: Smith Shauber, the pitcher, it turned out he blew out

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Speaker 1: his elbow was in clear discomfort on the mound, and

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Speaker 1: the dugout did not notice. It was only Spencer Stryder,

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Speaker 1: a pitcher who was obviously his off day, alerted the

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Speaker 1: coaching staff that, hey, you get a check on this guy,

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Speaker 1: I mean AJ Smith Schraber was out there grimacing, he

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Speaker 1: was shaking his arm, and the general manager Anthopolis once

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Speaker 1: again said, well, he's not a two year old, he's

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Speaker 1: an adult.

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Speaker 2: Basically assuming that it's the.

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Speaker 1: Pitcher's job to alert more people that something's wrong, like

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Speaker 1: stop the game. Or even brought up the idea that

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Speaker 1: the catcher should see it. All of that is true. Well,

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Speaker 1: your bench should see it as well. I'm watching the

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Speaker 1: game on TV. I could clearly see he was in distress.

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Speaker 1: This is a twenty two year old arm who throws

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Speaker 1: ninety nine miles an hour. Protect the young man.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, listen.

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Speaker 4: Of course there's things you can miss, of course there's

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Speaker 4: but not everybody is going to miss. Whether it's Borsello myself,

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Speaker 4: the pitching coach, hitty coach should come up to you,

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Speaker 4: somebody's going to come up to you. The catcher looks in,

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Speaker 4: there's all kinds of warning signs, and of course the

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Speaker 4: pitcher himself normally takes a step forward. He'll get behind

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Speaker 4: the mounts, not rubbing it up. It's something's wrong here,

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Speaker 4: and then you get the nod to come on out.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it just sounds like there's some kind of again,

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Speaker 4: a discomfort among the group there. You know, they're the

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Speaker 4: porch start. This year kind of demonstrates this in some ways.

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Speaker 4: It's a typical normally, if we just see with the braves,

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Speaker 4: so I, it's.

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Speaker 3: Just gonna be very all.

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Speaker 4: This makes it very difficult for them to get back

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Speaker 4: to the very top of the practice year. In the

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Speaker 4: beginning they were going poorly, we said, and I think

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Speaker 4: I said too that I thought they'd get back in it.

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Speaker 4: They kind of have, but this is the kind of

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Speaker 4: little brushfires that makes it more difficult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure if they've righted the ship yet either, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they've been foundering here for around actually under

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Speaker 1: five hundred now more than a third away through this season.

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Speaker 2: Think about their roster too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, they started out with Jerkson profar and

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Speaker 1: left field right and he gets busted for peds, so

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Speaker 1: he's gone. They tried Jared Keelnick finally gave up on him.

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Speaker 1: They gave up on Orlando the short stop. They gave

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Speaker 1: up on Brian day La Cruz. Those are four players

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Speaker 1: there that were part of their opening day roster that

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Speaker 1: they had to pivot off of, and they've replaced them

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Speaker 1: with people like Nick Allen, who's a fabulous defender. He's

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Speaker 1: not going to hit a lick, Eli White, Luke Williams,

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Speaker 1: Stuart Fairchild, Alex Dugo. These are all below average offensive players.

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Speaker 1: So what Olsen Alb's and when he gets healthy, fully healthy,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Crudia Junior, don't hit.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty shallow.

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Speaker 1: I mean that that's a roster issue, that's not a

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Speaker 1: third base coaching issue.

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Speaker 3: Agreed.

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Speaker 4: You know, they a couple years ago, they struck gold

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Speaker 4: later in the year when they acquired a couple of

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Speaker 4: guys and all of a sudden they get to the

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Speaker 4: World Series. You know, it's part of their I guess

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Speaker 4: they're they're what they keep in reserve. They keep these

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Speaker 4: names in reserve. If this is going to happen, we're

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Speaker 4: gonna go, We're gonna you suggested pivot, We're gonna do

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Speaker 4: something differently because we've had success doing this in the

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Speaker 4: past kind of a thing. But the names that they

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Speaker 4: went to a couple of years ago dramatically different and

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Speaker 4: better than the names that you just threw out at

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Speaker 4: me right now. So when it comes down to evaluation,

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Speaker 4: and I know Alex, Alex is a great job and

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Speaker 4: they've done a great job. So just it's just everything

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Speaker 4: seems to be out of character. Something is just a

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Speaker 4: miss right there right now, and not everybody's comfortable, and

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Speaker 4: they're they're kind of like searching, seeking for answers right

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Speaker 4: now because normally they're not caught with their pants.

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Speaker 3: Down like this.

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Speaker 4: So it's just it's just abnormal, brave behavior and we'll

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Speaker 4: see how it all works out over the next month

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Speaker 4: or so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they run a really smart, efficient organization and

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Speaker 1: you know, they just have not been able to find

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Speaker 1: any momentum this year. We thought maybe it would come

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Speaker 1: with Ronald the Cuna junior coming back and you watch

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Speaker 1: him play Joe and it's typical of a guy coming

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Speaker 1: back off a serious knee injury.

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Speaker 2: He's not quite there yet the explosiveness. Listen, heeds it.

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Speaker 2: He's one of the top five players in baseball. I'm

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Speaker 2: not worried about him at all.

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Speaker 1: But you can't just plug and play a guy coming

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Speaker 1: off an injury like that. And Michael Harris the second

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Speaker 1: last one hundred and sixty eight games, he's had a

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Speaker 1: two ninety on base percentage. He's gone backward, he's a

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Speaker 1: he's a below average offensive player for the last year

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Speaker 1: and a half.

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Speaker 2: So lots of get straight there in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure that example you brought up

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Speaker 1: Joe of you know, finding the Jock Peterson's and Rosario's

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Speaker 1: and the Solaires, all those guys. I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's like hitting on three four straight lottery tickets scratch.

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Speaker 3: Offs, exactly right.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure you count on that kind of second

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Speaker 1: half happening again.

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Speaker 4: No, that's that's that's a lottery stuff, you know. That's

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Speaker 4: that's hitting the big five or the big you get

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Speaker 4: six numbers in a row and it's and you win.

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Speaker 4: It just doesn't happen often. It's abnormal behavior from this

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Speaker 4: group when when we start, like we've talked about this,

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Speaker 4: when you start finding coaches and blaming coaches other than listen,

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Speaker 4: I've been around a couple of times, not often, that

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Speaker 4: I felt like a coach may have been somewhat toxic

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Speaker 4: in the clubhouse, and that that is a difference maker,

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Speaker 4: because that one person, a player or a coach, whatever,

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Speaker 4: can bring down an entire group. It's just it wears

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Speaker 4: everybody down. It's always there, it's always getting in the way,

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Speaker 4: and everybody's always looking in that direction, and it's it's

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Speaker 4: it's a rub it's just constantly rubbing against just creating

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Speaker 4: this RASHT just won't go away. So you got to

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Speaker 4: be yes, you got you got to eradicate that extra

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Speaker 4: KT to get it out of here, get that cancer gone,

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Speaker 4: if in fact that's the case. But just to say

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Speaker 4: that he got a couple of runners thrown out and

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden you don't like you anymore.

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Speaker 3: That those are the kind of things that bothered me.

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Speaker 4: Especially like you suggested earlier, looking for a reason for

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Speaker 4: them not doing well, to say it was a third

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Speaker 4: base coach, that's that's really weak.

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Speaker 1: Uh, Speaking of changes, I got to ask you about

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Speaker 1: this joke because I know this year you took a

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Speaker 1: lot of pride and you get some joy at a

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Speaker 1: watching the New York Knicks play basketball.

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Speaker 2: They go to the conference finals, they fire their coach.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it hits the conference finals for the first time

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Speaker 1: in twenty five years. They've had four straight years of improvement,

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Speaker 1: and three days after they get the conference finals, they

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Speaker 1: get rid of the coach.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain that one to me?

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Speaker 3: No, I was reading about it. I was really upset

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Speaker 3: when I read that.

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Speaker 4: I don't know Tom, but I you know, he was

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Speaker 4: in Chicago, I think when I was there a little bit,

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Speaker 4: and I watched the next nixt my second team the

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Speaker 4: Atlanta Hawks Saint Louis Hawks for my first team. Because

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Speaker 4: the kid growing up Bob Pettitt and all those dudes

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Speaker 4: all the way back in the sixties, Lenny Wilkins, and

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Speaker 4: then it became Maravich and sweet Lou Hudson in the group.

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Speaker 4: So I've been a Hawk fan, but my backup team

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Speaker 4: has always been the Knicks, and you know the seventies

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Speaker 4: when they were really hot.

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Speaker 3: And yes, I I thought, I'm watching this.

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Speaker 4: My evaluations sometimes is not that a team doesn't always win,

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Speaker 4: of course not, but they play hard, and this team

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Speaker 4: really I thought played hard.

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Speaker 3: This team very gritty, very New York's New.

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Speaker 4: York esque, you know, the Villanova connection, all that stuff,

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Speaker 4: and and him on the bench with the scal The

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Speaker 4: thing that I kind of read today was the fact

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Speaker 4: that maybe he's not always agreeable with some people. Maybe

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Speaker 4: they meet somebody to not be always agreeable with some people.

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Speaker 4: I'm talking about front office wise, he got results, man,

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Speaker 4: and I think there was an issue with him not

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Speaker 4: playing enough of the bench people wearing down the starters.

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Speaker 4: I think I had read something like that too, whatever,

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Speaker 4: like you're saying, they got this deeply again and furthermore,

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Speaker 4: they weren't as good. I mean, I don't know, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I know what I know but I thought the Pacers

359
00:16:07,038 --> 00:16:09,838
Speaker 4: were more athletic and a better team, and okay, City

360
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Speaker 4: is the best team. I can't when I watch these guys.

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Speaker 4: These guys got it going on, so I think they

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Speaker 4: should be really pleased they got as far as they did,

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Speaker 4: and not to blame him for any kind of shortcomings

364
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Speaker 4: at this point. And you're right, I mean to take

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Speaker 4: them to lead them to this particular juncture, and he

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Speaker 4: gave them. They Man, they were tough. I really respected

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Speaker 4: that group just by watching him. And you're not always

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Speaker 4: going to win, man, it's not easy to win every year.

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Speaker 4: But they went out and on a nightly basis, the

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Speaker 4: Knicks were going to compete, and I think that's like,

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Speaker 4: if you could attribute that in some way to your

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Speaker 4: skip or your head coach, I'll take it. And then

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Speaker 4: the next point is who's going to replace? And they

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Speaker 4: had a list of candidates in the New York Post

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Speaker 4: today potential replacements. Nobody among that group that I saw.

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Speaker 4: I don't think would care as much about this particular

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Speaker 4: group as this guy does. And I've been a fan

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Speaker 4: of his just by the way he goes about his business.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I think it's I don't get it It's

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Speaker 4: just another one of those things you just don't get.

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Speaker 4: Change for change sake, not not necessarily.

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Speaker 3: A good thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Again, it makes you think, Joe, there's there's more to

385
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Speaker 1: it than what we know, because on the surface level,

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Speaker 1: it's not apparent why a change would be made unless

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Speaker 1: they have some superstar coach waiting in the wings that

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Speaker 1: they want to hire.

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Speaker 3: And would that be I mean, that's that's another thing.

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Speaker 1: If you got to bring in Jay Wright, would he

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Speaker 1: coach the New York.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he will.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I saw that name and it's, you know,

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Speaker 4: probably the most glorious name out there. But I'd be

395
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Speaker 4: surprised if he did. You know, be kind of interesting

396
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Speaker 4: if he did. They brought up Keli Party's name and

397
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Speaker 4: some other guys. But I mean, Jay Wright's wonderful. I

398
00:17:41,998 --> 00:17:44,678
Speaker 4: just don't see him after the doing as well as

399
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Speaker 4: he did in.

400
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Speaker 3: The Collegian game.

401
00:17:45,838 --> 00:17:48,318
Speaker 4: Although there's some Villanovadu's there that's probably why the big

402
00:17:48,358 --> 00:17:51,398
Speaker 4: talk is there. But he's got a good gig going

403
00:17:51,438 --> 00:17:53,798
Speaker 4: on right now, and to go there and expose himself

404
00:17:53,838 --> 00:17:57,438
Speaker 4: to all that, who knows, but I unless they have something,

405
00:17:57,478 --> 00:17:59,358
Speaker 4: like you say, in their back pocket, as opposed to

406
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Speaker 4: just doing it. That would somewhat look differently, But to

407
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Speaker 4: denigrate the work to this fellow that had done is ridiculous.

408
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Speaker 2: Joe, we're gonna take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to get your take on something that

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Speaker 1: I saw over the weekend, a base running play. When

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Speaker 1: does a dumb bass running play become a dirty bas

412
00:18:17,118 --> 00:18:19,078
Speaker 1: running play. I want to get your take on that.

413
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Speaker 1: We'll do that right after this on the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Joe.

415
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Speaker 1: Did you see this play with the rookie Colby Mayo

416
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Speaker 1: at the Baltimore Orioles over the weekend?

417
00:18:40,438 --> 00:18:41,718
Speaker 2: Playing the Baltimore Orioles.

418
00:18:41,718 --> 00:18:44,918
Speaker 1: He gets caught in a rundown between first and second,

419
00:18:45,318 --> 00:18:48,838
Speaker 1: and clearly you know you're instructed if you can make

420
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Speaker 1: contact with an infielder who does not have the ball

421
00:18:51,158 --> 00:18:55,478
Speaker 1: and a rundown. See if you can get contact, listen to,

422
00:18:55,518 --> 00:18:57,158
Speaker 1: your chances of getting out of a rundown in the

423
00:18:57,158 --> 00:18:59,598
Speaker 1: major leagues is what maybe one percent, So that's the

424
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Speaker 1: one way to get out of it. Instead, he was

425
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Speaker 1: I don't know how you describe this. Clumsy about it,

426
00:19:06,198 --> 00:19:10,518
Speaker 1: maybe aggressive about it. I think it was a borderline

427
00:19:10,598 --> 00:19:12,318
Speaker 1: dirty play. I'm not going to call it a dirty play.

428
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Speaker 1: I just thought it was a dumb play where he

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Speaker 1: reached out, kind of extended the arms, almost pushed Lenin

430
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Speaker 1: Sosa there. I didn't like to play at all. I

431
00:19:19,838 --> 00:19:22,598
Speaker 1: understood what he was trying to do. Let me get

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Speaker 1: your take on it, Joe. You've seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: base running over the years.

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Speaker 4: If you're extending arms, that's not that's that's wrong. I mean, yes,

435
00:19:29,358 --> 00:19:31,358
Speaker 4: you're right. I mean when you get caught in a rundown,

436
00:19:31,398 --> 00:19:32,998
Speaker 4: you want to kind of like run at the guy

437
00:19:32,998 --> 00:19:35,038
Speaker 4: that's supposed to receive the ball, get in the way

438
00:19:35,038 --> 00:19:37,798
Speaker 4: from the throw coming from the other side. So that's

439
00:19:37,838 --> 00:19:41,398
Speaker 4: that's number one. From a perspective of running the rundown

440
00:19:43,118 --> 00:19:45,998
Speaker 4: the defenders, it was always grass to grass, dirt to dirt.

441
00:19:46,038 --> 00:19:48,198
Speaker 4: Whoever gets the ball, the other guy that's going to

442
00:19:48,278 --> 00:19:50,078
Speaker 4: receive the ball gets on that side. If he's on

443
00:19:50,118 --> 00:19:52,198
Speaker 4: the grass side or the dirt side of the running,

444
00:19:52,278 --> 00:19:54,158
Speaker 4: you stand on that same side. Once you release the ball,

445
00:19:54,198 --> 00:19:56,598
Speaker 4: you peel off to that side so you don't cross

446
00:19:56,638 --> 00:19:59,398
Speaker 4: in front of the runner. That's the basic method of

447
00:19:59,438 --> 00:20:01,958
Speaker 4: teaching a rundown and from the base runner's perspective. Yes,

448
00:20:01,958 --> 00:20:04,878
Speaker 4: you're always going to run at the guy going to

449
00:20:04,958 --> 00:20:06,758
Speaker 4: receive the ball in order to get in the way

450
00:20:07,638 --> 00:20:09,958
Speaker 4: when you that's fine, and that's fine. And I've seen

451
00:20:09,998 --> 00:20:11,558
Speaker 4: guys like go down and kind of like cut an

452
00:20:11,558 --> 00:20:13,398
Speaker 4: infielder down a little bit by trying to prevent a

453
00:20:13,398 --> 00:20:13,998
Speaker 4: double play.

454
00:20:14,638 --> 00:20:16,558
Speaker 3: And I don't even know if that's legal anywhere.

455
00:20:16,238 --> 00:20:18,758
Speaker 4: Based on the new roles, but uh, when you start

456
00:20:18,798 --> 00:20:21,198
Speaker 4: extending arms, it's almost like when Alex Rodriguez did the

457
00:20:21,238 --> 00:20:23,438
Speaker 4: thing running the first base years ago and he grabbed

458
00:20:23,438 --> 00:20:25,238
Speaker 4: it the arm. I think I was even in a

459
00:20:25,238 --> 00:20:26,478
Speaker 4: playoff game if I remember.

460
00:20:26,478 --> 00:20:27,798
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess Ronson and Royo.

461
00:20:27,918 --> 00:20:30,278
Speaker 1: That was the first play I thought of where it's

462
00:20:30,118 --> 00:20:31,758
Speaker 1: it's just the wrong thing to do.

463
00:20:31,958 --> 00:20:34,398
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't do that. It's just something you don't do.

464
00:20:34,558 --> 00:20:36,918
Speaker 4: And it makes me think, you go back to this

465
00:20:37,038 --> 00:20:38,878
Speaker 4: dude's minor league situation and career.

466
00:20:39,678 --> 00:20:40,758
Speaker 3: Did it happen there before?

467
00:20:40,838 --> 00:20:43,038
Speaker 4: And that's where that's where when you're coming up to

468
00:20:43,118 --> 00:20:45,518
Speaker 4: the minor leagues, you have to have coaches that are

469
00:20:45,558 --> 00:20:47,238
Speaker 4: adults and are going to go out and say no, no, no,

470
00:20:47,278 --> 00:20:49,638
Speaker 4: we don't do that here. That's not how you do this,

471
00:20:49,758 --> 00:20:51,998
Speaker 4: that's not Yes, I want you to get in the way.

472
00:20:52,038 --> 00:20:54,678
Speaker 4: I want you to run towards the defender. I want

473
00:20:54,718 --> 00:20:56,038
Speaker 4: the ball hitch in the back or the back of

474
00:20:56,038 --> 00:20:57,878
Speaker 4: the head. I'm fine with that. But you do not

475
00:20:57,958 --> 00:21:01,718
Speaker 4: go out and start grabbing people's arms. So absolutely, that's

476
00:21:01,798 --> 00:21:04,798
Speaker 4: that's that's not cool. And in the old days, he'd

477
00:21:04,798 --> 00:21:06,078
Speaker 4: probably get thrilled the next time up.

478
00:21:06,358 --> 00:21:08,878
Speaker 1: I was thinking of that as well. It doesn't happen

479
00:21:08,958 --> 00:21:11,958
Speaker 1: in today's game. It's like when Bryce Harper was hit

480
00:21:11,998 --> 00:21:14,678
Speaker 1: by Spencer Stryder ninety five mile an hour fastball and

481
00:21:14,718 --> 00:21:16,598
Speaker 1: the elbow put him out for three or four days.

482
00:21:17,198 --> 00:21:20,118
Speaker 1: Everybody in Philly is screaming for retribution. No, the game

483
00:21:20,158 --> 00:21:22,798
Speaker 1: doesn't work that that way anymore. I mean, clearly he

484
00:21:22,918 --> 00:21:25,838
Speaker 1: was not trying to hit him. Rob Thompson said exactly that,

485
00:21:25,918 --> 00:21:28,238
Speaker 1: why would we retaliate. He didn't do it on purpose,

486
00:21:29,398 --> 00:21:31,438
Speaker 1: so you know that eye for an eye, even if

487
00:21:31,438 --> 00:21:35,918
Speaker 1: he didn't mean it, that's gone. But Tony Manzelino, the

488
00:21:36,278 --> 00:21:40,358
Speaker 1: Orioles manager now longtime baseball guy, right, he said it

489
00:21:40,438 --> 00:21:44,158
Speaker 1: probably didn't look the best talking about what Mayo did there.

490
00:21:44,678 --> 00:21:47,678
Speaker 1: But I think most coaches will probably go not a

491
00:21:47,678 --> 00:21:51,358
Speaker 1: bad baseball play. I would disagree with that. I understand

492
00:21:51,398 --> 00:21:54,438
Speaker 1: he's backing his young player. I agree that the thought

493
00:21:54,558 --> 00:21:58,318
Speaker 1: of trying to initiate contact is not a bad baseball play,

494
00:21:58,798 --> 00:22:00,758
Speaker 1: But the way he went about it, I'm more in

495
00:22:00,758 --> 00:22:04,398
Speaker 1: line with what haw leanin Sosa saw it. He said,

496
00:22:04,678 --> 00:22:07,758
Speaker 1: I thought he'd tried to make a dirty play. Again,

497
00:22:08,038 --> 00:22:09,758
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go that far to call it dirty.

498
00:22:09,758 --> 00:22:10,838
Speaker 1: I just think it was wrong.

499
00:22:11,238 --> 00:22:14,558
Speaker 2: And then once he was put out, and I.

500
00:22:14,478 --> 00:22:16,998
Speaker 1: Think he almost realized he was wrong, and Sosa was

501
00:22:17,318 --> 00:22:19,518
Speaker 1: showed that. He was like, what's up, dude, what are

502
00:22:19,558 --> 00:22:21,478
Speaker 1: you doing here? We don't do that in the major leagues.

503
00:22:21,878 --> 00:22:26,398
Speaker 1: He actually shoved Sosa going back to the dugout, which

504
00:22:26,478 --> 00:22:29,438
Speaker 1: touched off. It wasn't a bench killed clearing brawl, but

505
00:22:29,678 --> 00:22:31,398
Speaker 1: it did clear the benches.

506
00:22:31,958 --> 00:22:33,038
Speaker 2: That was just wrong.

507
00:22:33,078 --> 00:22:35,758
Speaker 1: On top of wrong, shoving the infielder. It's almost like

508
00:22:35,798 --> 00:22:38,958
Speaker 1: he knew he was wrong. I gave Sosa a shove.

509
00:22:39,278 --> 00:22:41,678
Speaker 4: Embarrassment, and you got caught in a situation like that,

510
00:22:41,718 --> 00:22:44,798
Speaker 4: sometimes you might become embarrassed. How do I react? I

511
00:22:44,838 --> 00:22:46,718
Speaker 4: got to be a tough guy in the situation. Again,

512
00:22:46,918 --> 00:22:48,998
Speaker 4: all this goes back to minor league training. I don't

513
00:22:48,998 --> 00:22:51,158
Speaker 4: know how long Mayo spin in the minor leagues.

514
00:22:51,198 --> 00:22:52,478
Speaker 3: I have no idea what they do there.

515
00:22:52,518 --> 00:22:56,278
Speaker 4: But again with I really I do believe this to

516
00:22:56,318 --> 00:22:59,718
Speaker 4: be true with the reduction in the minor league number

517
00:22:59,718 --> 00:23:04,038
Speaker 4: of minor league facility cities, teams, and beyond that, the

518
00:23:04,078 --> 00:23:07,838
Speaker 4: reduction in the former major league players that are instructors

519
00:23:07,838 --> 00:23:10,198
Speaker 4: now compared to what had been in the past. See,

520
00:23:10,358 --> 00:23:12,798
Speaker 4: when guys make mistakes on the minor league level, they

521
00:23:12,838 --> 00:23:15,158
Speaker 4: need to be told straight up what the mistake is

522
00:23:15,998 --> 00:23:18,758
Speaker 4: and why we don't do that here. And I'm quite

523
00:23:18,758 --> 00:23:21,558
Speaker 4: frankly I know it doesn't always get covered anymore because

524
00:23:22,238 --> 00:23:25,198
Speaker 4: having difficult conversations is almost becoming a thing of the past.

525
00:23:25,878 --> 00:23:30,238
Speaker 4: There's not enough adults to have the difficult conversations where

526
00:23:30,278 --> 00:23:35,038
Speaker 4: things are glossed over or or not suggested to the player.

527
00:23:35,078 --> 00:23:36,998
Speaker 4: The one thing I used to one of my rules

528
00:23:37,038 --> 00:23:39,398
Speaker 4: of thumb with the Angels when I was running the

529
00:23:39,398 --> 00:23:41,838
Speaker 4: minor league system was I would say, okay, like if

530
00:23:41,838 --> 00:23:43,958
Speaker 4: you and I Tom and I are both coaches on

531
00:23:43,998 --> 00:23:46,318
Speaker 4: the Angels, that we're sitting behind the screen in an

532
00:23:46,318 --> 00:23:50,238
Speaker 4: instructional league watching the game in progress, and somebody does

533
00:23:50,278 --> 00:23:52,638
Speaker 4: something we thought was wrong, and we say it to

534
00:23:52,758 --> 00:23:55,398
Speaker 4: one another. The moment we say to one another, it

535
00:23:55,558 --> 00:23:58,078
Speaker 4: has to have one of us has to take it

536
00:23:58,118 --> 00:24:01,318
Speaker 4: to that player and explain to them exactly the conversation

537
00:24:01,758 --> 00:24:04,278
Speaker 4: that we were having, because this guy needs to know that.

538
00:24:04,518 --> 00:24:07,318
Speaker 4: My other explanation was, listen, if you think something is

539
00:24:07,358 --> 00:24:09,478
Speaker 4: inappropriate or wrong, but you don't let it come out

540
00:24:09,478 --> 00:24:13,038
Speaker 4: of your mouth and it's just your property. Okay, maybe

541
00:24:13,038 --> 00:24:15,358
Speaker 4: you don't necessarily have to say something, but the moment

542
00:24:15,598 --> 00:24:17,958
Speaker 4: it comes out of your mouth to another human's ears

543
00:24:17,958 --> 00:24:20,598
Speaker 4: on a baseball field, and you're you're in a position

544
00:24:20,638 --> 00:24:23,358
Speaker 4: of a power in a sense, you're authority figure. It

545
00:24:23,438 --> 00:24:25,238
Speaker 4: needs to go to the to the to the player

546
00:24:25,278 --> 00:24:27,358
Speaker 4: of the person, even another coach who you may have

547
00:24:27,438 --> 00:24:29,158
Speaker 4: been talking about. I thought that was the best way

548
00:24:29,198 --> 00:24:33,198
Speaker 4: to avoid all these weird little brushfires and confrontation, so

549
00:24:33,238 --> 00:24:36,238
Speaker 4: that people get used to hearing this and that that

550
00:24:36,558 --> 00:24:39,198
Speaker 4: stems from trust and exchange of ideas and all the

551
00:24:39,238 --> 00:24:41,798
Speaker 4: relationships that have been built so that you can have

552
00:24:41,878 --> 00:24:45,838
Speaker 4: that kind of open dialogue. So coaches to me, sitting

553
00:24:45,838 --> 00:24:47,718
Speaker 4: next to one another, if you've got something to say

554
00:24:47,758 --> 00:24:49,958
Speaker 4: to each other about something happening on the field and

555
00:24:50,038 --> 00:24:51,998
Speaker 4: you don't take it to the guy, you are not

556
00:24:52,078 --> 00:24:52,678
Speaker 4: doing your job.

557
00:24:52,878 --> 00:24:53,678
Speaker 2: I like that rule.

558
00:24:54,358 --> 00:24:57,118
Speaker 1: Once it's spoken into existence, kind of you have to

559
00:24:57,158 --> 00:24:59,998
Speaker 1: acknowledge it. It's out there and you're not getting it

560
00:25:00,038 --> 00:25:02,238
Speaker 1: back into the box. That's correct, Joe. I got to

561
00:25:02,278 --> 00:25:04,918
Speaker 1: imagine you're probably a big fan of Salf Freelick, the

562
00:25:04,958 --> 00:25:09,278
Speaker 1: Milwaukee Brewers right fielder I am. I bring it up

563
00:25:09,318 --> 00:25:11,718
Speaker 1: because I was talking to Pat Murphy, their manager, the

564
00:25:11,758 --> 00:25:15,198
Speaker 1: other day about this. I think players like salf Freelick

565
00:25:15,318 --> 00:25:17,638
Speaker 1: are coming back to the game, and it's a really

566
00:25:17,878 --> 00:25:23,398
Speaker 1: good thing for baseball. Sal is a right fielder who's

567
00:25:23,438 --> 00:25:26,638
Speaker 1: on pace to hit eight home runs and slug under

568
00:25:26,718 --> 00:25:31,838
Speaker 1: four hundred. From twenty eighteen to twenty twenty three, there

569
00:25:31,918 --> 00:25:34,598
Speaker 1: was not a single right fielder in the game with

570
00:25:34,718 --> 00:25:36,118
Speaker 1: those sort of power numbers.

571
00:25:36,158 --> 00:25:37,878
Speaker 2: I'm talking about qualified hitter, So.

572
00:25:37,958 --> 00:25:41,158
Speaker 1: An everyday right fielder who's not a slug guy didn't

573
00:25:41,198 --> 00:25:45,038
Speaker 1: exist in the game. Now you're allowed to do that because,

574
00:25:45,078 --> 00:25:47,958
Speaker 1: as I talked to Murph about this, it's so hard

575
00:25:47,958 --> 00:25:49,758
Speaker 1: to slug intoday's game.

576
00:25:49,878 --> 00:25:52,478
Speaker 2: Pitching these days is predicated.

577
00:25:51,918 --> 00:25:56,798
Speaker 1: On removing slug find out where guy slugs stay away

578
00:25:56,798 --> 00:25:59,838
Speaker 1: from there and attack the other areas where he doesn't.

579
00:26:00,278 --> 00:26:02,358
Speaker 1: So that is to me, Joe has put a premium

580
00:26:02,398 --> 00:26:05,638
Speaker 1: on players like salf Freelick, who can keep the line moving,

581
00:26:05,678 --> 00:26:09,158
Speaker 1: who can put the ball in play, who play fabulous defense,

582
00:26:09,398 --> 00:26:11,998
Speaker 1: who can run the bases, not just steel bases, but

583
00:26:12,158 --> 00:26:13,758
Speaker 1: run the bases really well.

584
00:26:15,038 --> 00:26:17,238
Speaker 2: And those players are coming back.

585
00:26:17,358 --> 00:26:21,238
Speaker 1: You know. I call them high average, low slug guys.

586
00:26:21,278 --> 00:26:23,118
Speaker 1: And I know it's not cool in today's game to

587
00:26:23,158 --> 00:26:26,558
Speaker 1: talk about batting average. People wanted to mean batting average.

588
00:26:26,598 --> 00:26:29,598
Speaker 1: I get it was probably overrated in the past, but

589
00:26:29,718 --> 00:26:32,718
Speaker 1: it's still darn important because a hit is better than

590
00:26:32,758 --> 00:26:34,718
Speaker 1: a walk, and I want guys who can put the

591
00:26:34,758 --> 00:26:35,398
Speaker 1: ball in play.

592
00:26:35,478 --> 00:26:36,878
Speaker 2: That's part of batting average.

593
00:26:37,438 --> 00:26:41,598
Speaker 1: So the number of those players who slug under four

594
00:26:41,638 --> 00:26:46,078
Speaker 1: to twenty five and hit over two seventy five, it's

595
00:26:46,118 --> 00:26:48,198
Speaker 1: the most in a decade that we've seen, Joe. So

596
00:26:48,238 --> 00:26:51,278
Speaker 1: those players like Salve Friedlich are coming back in the game.

597
00:26:51,358 --> 00:26:53,398
Speaker 1: I'm talking about guys like and the Brewers have a

598
00:26:53,398 --> 00:26:57,358
Speaker 1: couple of them, you know, Bryce Terrang, Caleb Durban, look

599
00:26:57,438 --> 00:27:01,278
Speaker 1: around the game, the Jake Myers, Nico Horner, TJ Friedel,

600
00:27:02,078 --> 00:27:05,518
Speaker 1: Gavin Lux. You know, these type of players, I'm happy

601
00:27:05,558 --> 00:27:07,158
Speaker 1: to say, are coming back to the game.

602
00:27:07,238 --> 00:27:07,518
Speaker 2: Joe.

603
00:27:07,678 --> 00:27:10,718
Speaker 4: It's beautiful. They're called baseball players. You know, they play

604
00:27:10,798 --> 00:27:11,478
Speaker 4: the entire game.

605
00:27:11,558 --> 00:27:13,678
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I mean I get it. Listen, everybody wants

606
00:27:13,718 --> 00:27:14,758
Speaker 3: to slug the ball in the stands.

607
00:27:14,758 --> 00:27:15,958
Speaker 4: But during the course of ear of you hit like

608
00:27:15,998 --> 00:27:17,438
Speaker 4: twenty five home runs, what do you do with your

609
00:27:17,438 --> 00:27:20,358
Speaker 4: other five hundred and seventy five at bats? What happens

610
00:27:20,358 --> 00:27:22,878
Speaker 4: in those at bats? And I know that those the

611
00:27:22,918 --> 00:27:24,878
Speaker 4: one run, the one swing, I get all that stuff.

612
00:27:25,118 --> 00:27:27,638
Speaker 4: But these other guys, when it comes to damage, it's

613
00:27:27,678 --> 00:27:30,318
Speaker 4: like a mental damage. They keep kicking you in the

614
00:27:30,358 --> 00:27:32,678
Speaker 4: shins all the time and then and it leads to

615
00:27:32,838 --> 00:27:36,038
Speaker 4: rallies offensively, but even touched on the other part, there's

616
00:27:36,078 --> 00:27:39,478
Speaker 4: this complete liberal arts baseball player, the guy that plays

617
00:27:39,518 --> 00:27:42,318
Speaker 4: the entire game. And on top of that, earlier this season,

618
00:27:42,398 --> 00:27:45,798
Speaker 4: there was a controversy with when Murph pulled these guys

619
00:27:45,838 --> 00:27:48,118
Speaker 4: out of a game. Something happened with Freelick and somebody.

620
00:27:47,878 --> 00:27:50,638
Speaker 2: Else, Yeah Durban, Yeah, Caleb Durban.

621
00:27:50,518 --> 00:27:52,638
Speaker 4: And he played the put the blame on them. He's

622
00:27:52,678 --> 00:27:55,238
Speaker 4: he called them out, and that at that moment I

623
00:27:55,318 --> 00:27:58,118
Speaker 4: knew that I loved this guy Freelick because you, Murph

624
00:27:58,198 --> 00:27:59,838
Speaker 4: knew he wasn't going to say anything back.

625
00:28:00,318 --> 00:28:01,918
Speaker 3: Derbin wasn't going to say anything bat. They were just

626
00:28:01,958 --> 00:28:03,798
Speaker 3: going to suck it up and be and.

627
00:28:03,718 --> 00:28:06,678
Speaker 4: They they could handle this kind of conversation because Murph's

628
00:28:06,718 --> 00:28:09,038
Speaker 4: not easy. I mean, Murphy is his old school as

629
00:28:09,038 --> 00:28:13,038
Speaker 4: it gets. He's more of an academic kind of a

630
00:28:13,038 --> 00:28:17,158
Speaker 4: manager coach because of his times in collegiate ranks.

631
00:28:17,358 --> 00:28:19,598
Speaker 3: So he put this out there intentionally.

632
00:28:19,598 --> 00:28:22,358
Speaker 4: It was an intentional process, Murph Swatt, and he put

633
00:28:22,358 --> 00:28:24,038
Speaker 4: it on these two guys because he knew.

634
00:28:24,078 --> 00:28:24,958
Speaker 3: They could handle it.

635
00:28:25,118 --> 00:28:27,758
Speaker 4: And immediately I always like Freelick, but then and there,

636
00:28:27,958 --> 00:28:30,038
Speaker 4: but I knew I liked him even more because how

637
00:28:30,078 --> 00:28:32,678
Speaker 4: they reacted to it. They react they did exactly what

638
00:28:32,798 --> 00:28:35,918
Speaker 4: needed to be done to keep that clubhouse good, and

639
00:28:36,118 --> 00:28:40,278
Speaker 4: also promoted Murph's methods and agenda because he knew these

640
00:28:40,318 --> 00:28:41,358
Speaker 4: guys could deal with it.

641
00:28:41,718 --> 00:28:44,598
Speaker 3: So you make runs, you make runs by hitting home.

642
00:28:44,678 --> 00:28:45,758
Speaker 3: How about the runs you prevent?

643
00:28:46,038 --> 00:28:48,598
Speaker 4: And how about all these little different nuance on the

644
00:28:48,638 --> 00:28:53,118
Speaker 4: bases and again I quantifiable. Could you actually tell me

645
00:28:53,158 --> 00:28:54,678
Speaker 4: exactly what it means at the end of the year,

646
00:28:54,718 --> 00:28:56,438
Speaker 4: because it's so much easier to just look at a

647
00:28:56,478 --> 00:28:59,278
Speaker 4: slug then say this guy's a good baseball player because

648
00:28:59,718 --> 00:29:00,718
Speaker 4: of his slug whatever.

649
00:29:01,238 --> 00:29:03,358
Speaker 3: But this other stuff man on a nightly.

650
00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:07,278
Speaker 4: Basis, it's so attractive, and you get real baseball players

651
00:29:07,318 --> 00:29:09,318
Speaker 4: that understand the game and do the right things and

652
00:29:09,558 --> 00:29:12,398
Speaker 4: throw to the right bases, make the right decisions on

653
00:29:12,478 --> 00:29:16,318
Speaker 4: the basis, you know, get pitch counts up, work at bats,

654
00:29:16,598 --> 00:29:19,998
Speaker 4: and they create rallies and stuff. And I could go

655
00:29:20,038 --> 00:29:22,638
Speaker 4: on and I yes, I want it all. I want

656
00:29:22,678 --> 00:29:24,558
Speaker 4: guys putting the ball in the stands, but I want

657
00:29:24,598 --> 00:29:26,998
Speaker 4: the Freelicks and the Durbans of the world. Also, I

658
00:29:27,038 --> 00:29:30,558
Speaker 4: want Nico Horner Nicols a great example of that, David Eckstein,

659
00:29:30,718 --> 00:29:31,918
Speaker 4: MVP in the World Series.

660
00:29:31,918 --> 00:29:34,558
Speaker 3: Come on. So there's always room.

661
00:29:34,398 --> 00:29:38,638
Speaker 4: For this stuff, but it's been slowly eradicated based on

662
00:29:38,838 --> 00:29:40,998
Speaker 4: the data driven game, which is really what all it's

663
00:29:41,038 --> 00:29:43,838
Speaker 4: doing is really creating a lot of five hundred baseball clubs.

664
00:29:43,838 --> 00:29:46,758
Speaker 4: Are around five hundred baseball clubs. There's a few outliers,

665
00:29:46,758 --> 00:29:49,718
Speaker 4: some of the better teams overall, because everybody's reading off

666
00:29:49,718 --> 00:29:52,238
Speaker 4: the same sheet of music, you're getting the same music,

667
00:29:52,358 --> 00:29:55,238
Speaker 4: you're getting the same kind of lyrics, it's all the

668
00:29:55,278 --> 00:29:58,318
Speaker 4: same stuff. And so when you get out, what are

669
00:29:58,318 --> 00:29:59,798
Speaker 4: they just when they're eighth in and roll the Brewers,

670
00:29:59,798 --> 00:30:01,558
Speaker 4: they're getting back in contention right now.

671
00:30:01,838 --> 00:30:02,918
Speaker 3: I love all that stuff.

672
00:30:03,238 --> 00:30:05,278
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, for a while there, when that launch

673
00:30:05,358 --> 00:30:09,238
Speaker 1: angle revolution really hit in around twenty fifteen, we got data.

674
00:30:09,278 --> 00:30:11,318
Speaker 1: People were in love with launch angle, get the ball

675
00:30:11,358 --> 00:30:14,478
Speaker 1: in the air. To me, the prototypical player then was

676
00:30:14,558 --> 00:30:18,078
Speaker 1: Joey Gallo, and everybody wanted a Joey Gallo. We don't

677
00:30:18,078 --> 00:30:20,318
Speaker 1: care if he strikes out two hundred times. You know,

678
00:30:20,358 --> 00:30:24,038
Speaker 1: he might hit thirty five to forty home runs. And listen,

679
00:30:24,198 --> 00:30:26,438
Speaker 1: home runs are still super important in the game, There's

680
00:30:26,438 --> 00:30:28,838
Speaker 1: no question about it. As it's difficult to hit. Nothing

681
00:30:28,918 --> 00:30:31,318
Speaker 1: changes a game and decides a game like a home run.

682
00:30:31,598 --> 00:30:35,518
Speaker 1: The five last World Series champions all finished no lower

683
00:30:35,558 --> 00:30:36,958
Speaker 1: than fourth in home runs.

684
00:30:36,998 --> 00:30:38,238
Speaker 2: You do need to hit home runs.

685
00:30:38,358 --> 00:30:40,878
Speaker 1: But I want to balance, like you say all the time, Joe,

686
00:30:40,918 --> 00:30:42,078
Speaker 1: I want it all right?

687
00:30:42,158 --> 00:30:42,518
Speaker 2: Why not?

688
00:30:43,158 --> 00:30:45,598
Speaker 1: I want to balance and these players I think have

689
00:30:45,678 --> 00:30:46,918
Speaker 1: to be part of your team.

690
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:48,918
Speaker 2: And you bring up a good point too.

691
00:30:48,758 --> 00:30:52,558
Speaker 1: About how speed and base running ability can affect a

692
00:30:52,598 --> 00:30:56,198
Speaker 1: game and even bunting. I'd love this is what Mrph

693
00:30:56,278 --> 00:30:58,558
Speaker 1: told me here when it came talking about the type

694
00:30:58,598 --> 00:31:00,958
Speaker 1: of players that he has. He said, the thread of

695
00:31:00,998 --> 00:31:04,078
Speaker 1: a steal, just talk to the pitchers. The threat of

696
00:31:04,118 --> 00:31:07,958
Speaker 1: the steel opens up doors because pictures are just in

697
00:31:07,998 --> 00:31:11,758
Speaker 1: a hurry to the plate, they're not executing quite as good.

698
00:31:12,158 --> 00:31:14,798
Speaker 1: And it's the same with the threat of the bunt.

699
00:31:15,078 --> 00:31:16,798
Speaker 1: You look at our number of bun hits. I don't

700
00:31:16,798 --> 00:31:18,558
Speaker 1: even know how many it is. I don't really care,

701
00:31:19,158 --> 00:31:21,878
Speaker 1: but we try a lot, meaning that we're pretty good

702
00:31:21,918 --> 00:31:25,838
Speaker 1: at it, and it changes the positioning and the picture.

703
00:31:26,358 --> 00:31:28,878
Speaker 1: What's the picture saying when the guy squares for a bunt,

704
00:31:28,998 --> 00:31:31,718
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna throw it in there, and oftentimes it

705
00:31:31,838 --> 00:31:35,158
Speaker 1: leads to an extra base hit. I love the fact

706
00:31:35,198 --> 00:31:38,198
Speaker 1: that you can, because you have shown different elements of

707
00:31:38,238 --> 00:31:42,038
Speaker 1: the game. Bunting and running can affect the game without

708
00:31:42,118 --> 00:31:45,158
Speaker 1: even doing those things. It's the threat of those now

709
00:31:45,198 --> 00:31:46,158
Speaker 1: that come into play.

710
00:31:46,478 --> 00:31:48,598
Speaker 4: You're leading us into the quote of the day afterwards.

711
00:31:48,598 --> 00:31:50,678
Speaker 4: What I'm gonna stay with it? Listen, it's all of

712
00:31:50,718 --> 00:31:53,918
Speaker 4: that stuff. It's all the above. I don't quite understand

713
00:31:53,958 --> 00:31:56,678
Speaker 4: why we've gotten so I do because we did get

714
00:31:56,718 --> 00:31:58,598
Speaker 4: caught in the data revolution. We did get caught in

715
00:31:58,598 --> 00:32:01,398
Speaker 4: the numerical revolution, and now I want to believe that

716
00:32:01,478 --> 00:32:03,838
Speaker 4: you suggested we're getting a little bit more balanced about this,

717
00:32:04,438 --> 00:32:06,838
Speaker 4: and only because, like I said, if you look at it,

718
00:32:07,238 --> 00:32:09,198
Speaker 4: where is this all leading anyway? I mean, it's all

719
00:32:09,278 --> 00:32:12,278
Speaker 4: leading to sameness. The outliers are still the big money guys.

720
00:32:12,278 --> 00:32:14,758
Speaker 4: And you've suggested, We've talked about this before, the home

721
00:32:14,838 --> 00:32:17,878
Speaker 4: run being so impactful. Part of the impactfulness of it

722
00:32:17,918 --> 00:32:19,118
Speaker 4: is the fact that nobody's trying to.

723
00:32:19,118 --> 00:32:19,798
Speaker 3: Do anything else.

724
00:32:20,038 --> 00:32:24,518
Speaker 4: Nobody's nurtured this other more completer balance approach to see

725
00:32:24,518 --> 00:32:27,438
Speaker 4: that if it also in fact works in the latter

726
00:32:27,478 --> 00:32:29,238
Speaker 4: part of the season in the playoffs in the World Series.

727
00:32:29,398 --> 00:32:32,958
Speaker 4: My experience with the Angels and with the Rays, we

728
00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:33,838
Speaker 4: kind of had it all.

729
00:32:34,118 --> 00:32:34,358
Speaker 3: You know.

730
00:32:34,398 --> 00:32:38,598
Speaker 4: We had really aggressive teams on the bases. We had

731
00:32:38,718 --> 00:32:41,638
Speaker 4: you know, weren't afraid to make mistakes, took kind of chances.

732
00:32:41,998 --> 00:32:43,878
Speaker 4: We had some pop, but we had some speed. We

733
00:32:43,918 --> 00:32:46,638
Speaker 4: caught the baseball. And you play with your hair on

734
00:32:46,678 --> 00:32:48,958
Speaker 4: fire all the time, and that's what Murph wants. He

735
00:32:48,958 --> 00:32:52,238
Speaker 4: wants guys out there with combustible with their hair on

736
00:32:52,278 --> 00:32:54,358
Speaker 4: fire all the time, and he'll take that, and I

737
00:32:54,398 --> 00:32:56,358
Speaker 4: would listen, when you're a manager and you've got a

738
00:32:56,398 --> 00:32:58,598
Speaker 4: group like that coming to the ballpark every day is

739
00:32:58,678 --> 00:33:00,718
Speaker 4: a blast. When you've got a bunch of dudes that

740
00:33:00,758 --> 00:33:03,838
Speaker 4: are baseball players that are out there with the solenti

741
00:33:04,118 --> 00:33:06,798
Speaker 4: to win any how they possibly can, and then they

742
00:33:06,798 --> 00:33:08,038
Speaker 4: have the tools to back it up.

743
00:33:08,078 --> 00:33:10,478
Speaker 3: They have the acumen to back it up. And when

744
00:33:10,478 --> 00:33:11,238
Speaker 3: you're talking.

745
00:33:10,958 --> 00:33:13,718
Speaker 4: About with all this bunts and everything else, again, when

746
00:33:13,718 --> 00:33:15,598
Speaker 4: I was with the Rays, U asked Brian Butterfield. He

747
00:33:15,678 --> 00:33:17,758
Speaker 4: was with the Blue Jays at that time, and butter

748
00:33:17,878 --> 00:33:19,598
Speaker 4: used to set up their defense and stuff, and he

749
00:33:19,758 --> 00:33:22,798
Speaker 4: talked about when he was my coach how awful it

750
00:33:22,958 --> 00:33:25,198
Speaker 4: was when we came into town because his meetings were

751
00:33:25,198 --> 00:33:28,238
Speaker 4: so much longer. And again agreed, anytime you could create

752
00:33:28,278 --> 00:33:31,038
Speaker 4: that when the picture has to split his concentration on

753
00:33:31,118 --> 00:33:33,518
Speaker 4: the mount. I've been arguing that for years. That's how

754
00:33:33,518 --> 00:33:36,158
Speaker 4: we beat the Yankees in late nineteen nineties and early

755
00:33:36,198 --> 00:33:39,958
Speaker 4: two thousands. We split their concentration all the time. Those

756
00:33:39,958 --> 00:33:41,118
Speaker 4: things aren't even spoken about.

757
00:33:41,158 --> 00:33:41,198
Speaker 3: This.

758
00:33:41,358 --> 00:33:42,838
Speaker 4: There's no way to put that on a piece of

759
00:33:42,838 --> 00:33:45,518
Speaker 4: paper and put on a matrix and understand well the

760
00:33:45,638 --> 00:33:47,998
Speaker 4: doubt scale how much doubt are we creating, or how

761
00:33:48,558 --> 00:33:50,278
Speaker 4: our little data are we creating with the other team

762
00:33:50,318 --> 00:33:51,118
Speaker 4: and their preparation.

763
00:33:51,678 --> 00:33:54,358
Speaker 3: All that stuff matters. It's all part of guerrilla warfare.

764
00:33:54,518 --> 00:33:56,278
Speaker 4: That's the part of the game to me that is

765
00:33:56,358 --> 00:33:59,798
Speaker 4: interesting beyond everything else that I don't think enough people

766
00:33:59,838 --> 00:34:02,718
Speaker 4: spend enough time on because they don't understand it well.

767
00:34:02,758 --> 00:34:03,878
Speaker 2: It is starting to change.

768
00:34:04,318 --> 00:34:06,598
Speaker 1: The good news is the strikeout rate in Major League

769
00:34:06,638 --> 00:34:09,518
Speaker 1: Baseball is down for a second straight year, the first

770
00:34:09,518 --> 00:34:12,278
Speaker 1: time if it holds up, that it's happened in two decades.

771
00:34:12,398 --> 00:34:14,718
Speaker 1: And the strikeout rate is now the lowest it's been

772
00:34:14,878 --> 00:34:17,198
Speaker 1: in eight years. And you think about I call what

773
00:34:17,278 --> 00:34:21,518
Speaker 1: pitching is today, Joe, It's it's the three s's, it's sequencing,

774
00:34:21,958 --> 00:34:24,998
Speaker 1: it's shaping, and it's spin. It is hard to hit

775
00:34:25,038 --> 00:34:28,278
Speaker 1: in today's game. And yet we're getting players now like

776
00:34:28,318 --> 00:34:32,598
Speaker 1: the Freelicks and the Stephen Kwans and Luis Oreies who

777
00:34:32,598 --> 00:34:35,078
Speaker 1: can put the ball in play. I'll go back to

778
00:34:35,838 --> 00:34:38,478
Speaker 1: you know a player I think was very underrated, Joe.

779
00:34:38,918 --> 00:34:41,078
Speaker 2: Remember Orlando Cabrera at the shortstop.

780
00:34:41,238 --> 00:34:42,478
Speaker 3: Oh see that's my boy.

781
00:34:42,678 --> 00:34:46,518
Speaker 1: There you go, five 'ot ten. Now he was a

782
00:34:46,638 --> 00:34:49,758
Speaker 1: career three to ninety slugger. Not great, right, but he's

783
00:34:49,798 --> 00:34:54,238
Speaker 1: a two seventy two career hitter. He played fifteen years

784
00:34:54,318 --> 00:34:57,638
Speaker 1: in the major leagues, collected more than two thousand hits.

785
00:34:57,958 --> 00:35:00,798
Speaker 1: He never struck out more than seventy one times in

786
00:35:00,838 --> 00:35:01,358
Speaker 1: the season.

787
00:35:01,998 --> 00:35:02,518
Speaker 2: And guess what.

788
00:35:02,718 --> 00:35:07,678
Speaker 1: He was a shortstop on six playoff teams, including the

789
00:35:07,718 --> 00:35:11,198
Speaker 1: two thousand and four Boston Red Sox. When the internal

790
00:35:11,318 --> 00:35:13,558
Speaker 1: data of the Red Sox said they couldn't win with

791
00:35:13,598 --> 00:35:16,798
Speaker 1: no more Garcian Para and he's defensive metrics at shortstop.

792
00:35:17,278 --> 00:35:20,798
Speaker 1: They made that switch in season, and Doug man Koevich

793
00:35:20,918 --> 00:35:23,638
Speaker 1: was part of that as well, playing first base. Orlando

794
00:35:23,798 --> 00:35:26,678
Speaker 1: Cabrera is the kind of player we're talking about, a

795
00:35:26,718 --> 00:35:31,198
Speaker 1: baseball player who puts the ball in play and is

796
00:35:31,318 --> 00:35:34,318
Speaker 1: not a high slug guy, but as we like to say,

797
00:35:34,598 --> 00:35:35,518
Speaker 1: is a winning player.

798
00:35:35,878 --> 00:35:37,558
Speaker 3: The OC is one of my all time favorites.

799
00:35:37,598 --> 00:35:39,598
Speaker 4: We've got to be pretty good friends, man, And I

800
00:35:39,798 --> 00:35:42,958
Speaker 4: tell you what, the boy he loved to play the game,

801
00:35:43,038 --> 00:35:45,478
Speaker 4: guy that he loved to play the game, really smart.

802
00:35:45,838 --> 00:35:47,878
Speaker 4: We would talk all the time. We hung out a

803
00:35:47,878 --> 00:35:50,278
Speaker 4: little bit. You got me all jacked up because I

804
00:35:50,278 --> 00:35:52,478
Speaker 4: haven't thought about the OC in a bit, but he is.

805
00:35:52,518 --> 00:35:53,838
Speaker 3: All of that. He was.

806
00:35:54,038 --> 00:35:59,478
Speaker 4: He's a winning player, smart player, passionate about Everything's Colombian

807
00:35:59,598 --> 00:36:01,958
Speaker 4: kid and we just we just had a blast together.

808
00:36:01,998 --> 00:36:06,078
Speaker 4: So it really perked me up. On strikeout gig. Okay,

809
00:36:06,638 --> 00:36:08,798
Speaker 4: we pay for strikeouts, you pay for home runs, you

810
00:36:08,798 --> 00:36:11,158
Speaker 4: pay for all this stuff. If you want less srikeouts,

811
00:36:11,198 --> 00:36:13,438
Speaker 4: compensate for that too. I mean, seriously, why can't that

812
00:36:13,478 --> 00:36:16,638
Speaker 4: be part of a contract situation. Why does it have

813
00:36:16,678 --> 00:36:18,598
Speaker 4: to be just about hitting putting a ball in the seat.

814
00:36:18,598 --> 00:36:21,118
Speaker 4: How about putting the ball and play more often. Anything

815
00:36:21,158 --> 00:36:24,158
Speaker 4: you want to see done in the game, if more

816
00:36:24,198 --> 00:36:27,398
Speaker 4: stolen bases, which they're attempting to do, whatever, whatever that

817
00:36:27,598 --> 00:36:29,438
Speaker 4: is that you want to see more of in the game,

818
00:36:29,478 --> 00:36:32,478
Speaker 4: Compensate for it. Pay guys for it, make it, make

819
00:36:32,518 --> 00:36:36,758
Speaker 4: it popular to be that. I'm a little little performance

820
00:36:36,798 --> 00:36:39,398
Speaker 4: bonuses in your contract. The guy that struck out one

821
00:36:39,478 --> 00:36:42,158
Speaker 4: hundred times last year, listen, get down the seventy five

822
00:36:42,198 --> 00:36:44,038
Speaker 4: punchouts this year, and you're gonna get a fifty thousand

823
00:36:44,038 --> 00:36:44,558
Speaker 4: dollars bonus.

824
00:36:44,558 --> 00:36:44,878
Speaker 3: Whatever.

825
00:36:45,758 --> 00:36:49,758
Speaker 4: I that's that's the language everybody speaks. I'm into that.

826
00:36:49,798 --> 00:36:52,558
Speaker 4: I would I would much prefer the money being spent

827
00:36:52,598 --> 00:36:55,918
Speaker 4: there to move the baseball in situations as opposed to

828
00:36:56,038 --> 00:36:58,238
Speaker 4: just swinging at your butt all the time and trying

829
00:36:58,278 --> 00:37:01,758
Speaker 4: to put the ball in the seats. It's a paradigm

830
00:37:01,758 --> 00:37:04,238
Speaker 4: shift mentally, that's what's going to get I used to

831
00:37:04,278 --> 00:37:07,278
Speaker 4: strike out less, and it's being instituted by the fact

832
00:37:07,278 --> 00:37:10,038
Speaker 4: that after all this lifting and separating, we're trying to

833
00:37:10,038 --> 00:37:11,718
Speaker 4: get the ball and play more often because we're sick

834
00:37:11,758 --> 00:37:13,918
Speaker 4: and tired of watching a run around the third base

835
00:37:13,958 --> 00:37:16,918
Speaker 4: with less to us, never scoring, or a run around

836
00:37:16,958 --> 00:37:19,398
Speaker 4: second base with no outs never gets the third base.

837
00:37:20,198 --> 00:37:22,878
Speaker 4: It's called playing baseball the proper way. So go ahead,

838
00:37:22,918 --> 00:37:25,438
Speaker 4: go ahead, compensate for it if you want to ball

839
00:37:25,438 --> 00:37:26,238
Speaker 4: and play more often.

840
00:37:26,518 --> 00:37:27,238
Speaker 3: Tell some dudes.

841
00:37:27,278 --> 00:37:31,078
Speaker 4: And last point, when I grew up as a hitting coach, Yeah,

842
00:37:31,198 --> 00:37:33,838
Speaker 4: my big slugger is it's cool go ahead and strike out.

843
00:37:33,878 --> 00:37:36,518
Speaker 4: I don't know one hundred times strike out to fifty

844
00:37:36,558 --> 00:37:38,918
Speaker 4: walks or something to that effect. But if I'm a

845
00:37:38,958 --> 00:37:41,118
Speaker 4: guy that's not that guy that's putting the ball in

846
00:37:41,158 --> 00:37:43,518
Speaker 4: the seats, I want those numbers to be closer to

847
00:37:43,558 --> 00:37:43,998
Speaker 4: one another.

848
00:37:44,038 --> 00:37:46,358
Speaker 3: I want the walks and the strikeouts to be bounced.

849
00:37:46,358 --> 00:37:49,798
Speaker 4: If you strike out seventy five times, walk sixty five

850
00:37:49,838 --> 00:37:52,478
Speaker 4: to seventy five times. If you're gonna punch fifty times,

851
00:37:52,678 --> 00:37:54,998
Speaker 4: walk at least fifty times. Those are the kind of

852
00:37:55,038 --> 00:37:57,038
Speaker 4: thoughts I used to try to put in my hitters

853
00:37:57,078 --> 00:37:58,758
Speaker 4: heads in the eighties when I first start out as

854
00:37:58,758 --> 00:38:01,278
Speaker 4: a hitting coach. All that stuff is attainable. I don't

855
00:38:01,318 --> 00:38:02,518
Speaker 4: care how hard these guys are.

856
00:38:02,358 --> 00:38:05,598
Speaker 1: Throwing great stuff, Joe, really, I enjoy hearing that. And

857
00:38:05,798 --> 00:38:08,518
Speaker 1: the game really doesn't change in that regard. And maybe

858
00:38:08,598 --> 00:38:11,598
Speaker 1: the numbers do. The parameters do. Pat Murphy, for instance,

859
00:38:11,598 --> 00:38:13,878
Speaker 1: he wants players who strike out less than twenty percent

860
00:38:13,918 --> 00:38:16,518
Speaker 1: of the time. The major league rate is over twenty percent,

861
00:38:16,638 --> 00:38:19,078
Speaker 1: So find a way put the ball in play.

862
00:38:19,358 --> 00:38:19,878
Speaker 2: I love that.

863
00:38:20,718 --> 00:38:23,518
Speaker 1: By the way, recently, Joe, you mentioned you brought up

864
00:38:23,518 --> 00:38:25,198
Speaker 1: the idea that maybe the ball is flying a little

865
00:38:25,238 --> 00:38:25,878
Speaker 1: bit more this year.

866
00:38:25,918 --> 00:38:27,598
Speaker 2: You've seen some opposite field home runs.

867
00:38:27,598 --> 00:38:31,158
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, get out your pocket protector and your

868
00:38:31,158 --> 00:38:36,238
Speaker 1: pro tractor. I've got some drag coefficient numbers.

869
00:38:36,118 --> 00:38:37,958
Speaker 2: To run by you. We'll do that right after this.

870
00:38:51,438 --> 00:38:53,598
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe, where we dive

871
00:38:53,678 --> 00:38:57,918
Speaker 1: into anything including the drag coefficient of the baseball there's

872
00:38:57,998 --> 00:39:00,638
Speaker 1: actually numbers that they keep track of this thing, Joe,

873
00:39:00,718 --> 00:39:03,478
Speaker 1: And just to give you an idea, I don't really

874
00:39:03,558 --> 00:39:07,638
Speaker 1: underst fully understand the signs other than that for every

875
00:39:08,398 --> 00:39:12,998
Speaker 1: point zero one increase in the drag coefficient or the baseball,

876
00:39:13,638 --> 00:39:15,878
Speaker 1: a baseball that has struck one hundred miles per hour

877
00:39:15,998 --> 00:39:18,358
Speaker 1: will fly five feet less.

878
00:39:18,518 --> 00:39:19,998
Speaker 2: And the inverse is true.

879
00:39:20,318 --> 00:39:23,758
Speaker 1: If that drag coefficient goes down, the ball hit the

880
00:39:23,758 --> 00:39:26,998
Speaker 1: same way as going to fly five feet farther. So

881
00:39:27,118 --> 00:39:29,678
Speaker 1: now you get what we're talking about here, and believe

882
00:39:29,718 --> 00:39:33,438
Speaker 1: it or not, the drag coefficient this year has increased.

883
00:39:34,118 --> 00:39:37,678
Speaker 2: It's got up point zero one.

884
00:39:37,998 --> 00:39:40,198
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know this is maybe something that

885
00:39:40,238 --> 00:39:43,718
Speaker 1: you're seeing in certain places with the ball flying a

886
00:39:43,718 --> 00:39:44,278
Speaker 1: little bit more.

887
00:39:44,358 --> 00:39:45,198
Speaker 2: I agree with you.

888
00:39:45,318 --> 00:39:48,518
Speaker 1: The confirmation bias does seem to look like, hey, some

889
00:39:48,598 --> 00:39:49,638
Speaker 1: balls are going out this year.

890
00:39:49,678 --> 00:39:51,598
Speaker 2: That look a little bit odd, But.

891
00:39:51,518 --> 00:39:55,638
Speaker 1: The data tells us the ball actually is not traveling farther.

892
00:39:55,718 --> 00:39:59,598
Speaker 1: If anything, it's going a little bit less.

893
00:39:59,798 --> 00:40:01,238
Speaker 2: And this tracks with history.

894
00:40:01,278 --> 00:40:03,438
Speaker 1: If you go back to twenty nineteen, the ball was

895
00:40:03,478 --> 00:40:08,838
Speaker 1: absolutely flying. The drag coefficient then was about point zero

896
00:40:09,518 --> 00:40:13,558
Speaker 1: three lower than what it is today. That's a fifteen

897
00:40:13,638 --> 00:40:17,558
Speaker 1: foot difference. Back in seventeen eighteen nineteen, the ball really

898
00:40:17,718 --> 00:40:20,238
Speaker 1: was flying. That's when they started measuring and keeping track

899
00:40:20,278 --> 00:40:23,478
Speaker 1: of these things. So the science tells us Joe, the

900
00:40:23,918 --> 00:40:26,638
Speaker 1: ball is not flying farther this year.

901
00:40:26,838 --> 00:40:30,878
Speaker 4: I disagree. It's okay, I know what I'm saying. I

902
00:40:30,918 --> 00:40:33,838
Speaker 4: know what I'm seeing more OPO flyball home runs. They

903
00:40:33,878 --> 00:40:36,078
Speaker 4: show the instant replay and the ball is going like

904
00:40:36,118 --> 00:40:38,558
Speaker 4: directly up in the air, and eventually it's going like

905
00:40:38,598 --> 00:40:40,478
Speaker 4: outfielders are like stunned when they have to go back

906
00:40:40,478 --> 00:40:40,998
Speaker 4: to the wall.

907
00:40:41,878 --> 00:40:44,638
Speaker 3: Let's give it more time. What is that up to date?

908
00:40:44,718 --> 00:40:45,878
Speaker 3: That is that like a month ago?

909
00:40:46,038 --> 00:40:47,478
Speaker 2: Or is that that is up to date?

910
00:40:47,638 --> 00:40:49,958
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, over the course of a season,

911
00:40:49,958 --> 00:40:52,358
Speaker 1: you would expect there'd be more carry as the weather

912
00:40:52,438 --> 00:40:55,478
Speaker 1: warms up, right right, But to this point in the season,

913
00:40:56,198 --> 00:40:56,838
Speaker 1: that's what we have.

914
00:40:56,918 --> 00:41:01,398
Speaker 4: Okay, listen, I can't argue with facts. The facts are facts.

915
00:41:01,398 --> 00:41:04,198
Speaker 4: But I know what my eyeballs are seen, and I

916
00:41:04,358 --> 00:41:08,518
Speaker 4: swear I've not seen so many opposite field homers that

917
00:41:08,718 --> 00:41:10,038
Speaker 4: just do not want to come down.

918
00:41:10,358 --> 00:41:12,278
Speaker 3: They look like straight up fly balls when they leave

919
00:41:12,318 --> 00:41:12,638
Speaker 3: the bat.

920
00:41:12,998 --> 00:41:15,878
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's I love the point you made by

921
00:41:15,878 --> 00:41:17,918
Speaker 1: the way, Joe, Like, when I'm broadcasting a game and

922
00:41:17,918 --> 00:41:20,358
Speaker 1: balls are hitting the air like that, I don't watch

923
00:41:20,398 --> 00:41:20,678
Speaker 1: the ball.

924
00:41:20,718 --> 00:41:22,318
Speaker 2: I watched the outfielder, and the.

925
00:41:22,238 --> 00:41:25,918
Speaker 1: Outfielder's route will tell you everything you need to know

926
00:41:26,078 --> 00:41:29,118
Speaker 1: about how that ball is carrying. You know, it's almost

927
00:41:29,118 --> 00:41:31,838
Speaker 1: like a wide receiver, you know, speeding up to try

928
00:41:31,838 --> 00:41:34,198
Speaker 1: to get under a throw. A lot of times you'll

929
00:41:34,198 --> 00:41:36,518
Speaker 1: see that outfielder cut across and now all of a sudden,

930
00:41:36,558 --> 00:41:39,158
Speaker 1: if he's got a veer back, you know that ball's

931
00:41:39,198 --> 00:41:41,438
Speaker 1: got more back spin, it's got more carry, maybe there's

932
00:41:41,438 --> 00:41:43,558
Speaker 1: more wind, whatever it is, but the outfielder will tell

933
00:41:43,558 --> 00:41:45,278
Speaker 1: you everything you need to know about the flight of

934
00:41:45,278 --> 00:41:45,798
Speaker 1: the baseball.

935
00:41:46,078 --> 00:41:48,478
Speaker 4: Are these and as this data numbers? Are these like

936
00:41:48,958 --> 00:41:51,678
Speaker 4: in house numbers? Are they independent data? Where's that stuff

937
00:41:51,678 --> 00:41:52,158
Speaker 4: coming from?

938
00:41:52,198 --> 00:41:53,278
Speaker 2: It's coming from MLB?

939
00:41:53,718 --> 00:41:56,518
Speaker 3: Okay, then that's let's the way.

940
00:41:56,638 --> 00:41:57,798
Speaker 2: You don't sound convinced.

941
00:41:57,918 --> 00:42:00,558
Speaker 3: I'm not convinced. I know what I'm seeing man balls.

942
00:42:00,278 --> 00:42:04,878
Speaker 1: Flying Yeah, well, I'm telling you I I'm seeing the

943
00:42:04,918 --> 00:42:05,438
Speaker 1: same thing.

944
00:42:05,478 --> 00:42:08,398
Speaker 2: The data so far doesn't really back it up.

945
00:42:08,438 --> 00:42:11,678
Speaker 1: I will tell you, though, that the offensive numbers have

946
00:42:11,798 --> 00:42:13,918
Speaker 1: started to pick up as you mentioned when we started

947
00:42:13,918 --> 00:42:16,478
Speaker 1: this show, not just in the Northeast. I think the

948
00:42:16,478 --> 00:42:19,238
Speaker 1: weather's kind of been crummy early in the season, and

949
00:42:19,278 --> 00:42:22,398
Speaker 1: it's only now and I think it's late in general.

950
00:42:22,278 --> 00:42:23,558
Speaker 2: Really starting to pick up.

951
00:42:23,558 --> 00:42:25,878
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're seeing that where maybe the

952
00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:27,238
Speaker 1: ball's flying a little more.

953
00:42:27,118 --> 00:42:29,358
Speaker 3: It could be I wasn't looking for it, you know.

954
00:42:29,398 --> 00:42:31,398
Speaker 4: I'm just what I do in the morning is because

955
00:42:31,398 --> 00:42:32,958
Speaker 4: it's hard for me to watch all of these games,

956
00:42:33,198 --> 00:42:34,918
Speaker 4: especially when I have so much other, so many other

957
00:42:34,958 --> 00:42:37,598
Speaker 4: things to watch. Seinfeld reruns, you know, So I don't

958
00:42:37,598 --> 00:42:39,918
Speaker 4: watch them all the time. But I love the MLB

959
00:42:40,118 --> 00:42:43,038
Speaker 4: app for the video recap of the night before, so

960
00:42:43,078 --> 00:42:45,158
Speaker 4: I'll go on those and I'll of course they're showing

961
00:42:45,198 --> 00:42:48,918
Speaker 4: you the highlights, and you get primarily offensive highlights. You

962
00:42:48,958 --> 00:42:51,238
Speaker 4: get some good defensive plays and a pitch now and then,

963
00:42:51,558 --> 00:42:55,118
Speaker 4: so it's kind of a it's slanted in one direction,

964
00:42:55,318 --> 00:42:57,758
Speaker 4: but nevertheless, that's what I've been watching. It's like, dang,

965
00:42:57,798 --> 00:43:01,398
Speaker 4: I mean, I watched the swing and then I mean

966
00:43:01,438 --> 00:43:03,158
Speaker 4: not only just like right over the wall, it's like

967
00:43:03,238 --> 00:43:05,438
Speaker 4: fifteen rolls back out over the wall.

968
00:43:05,838 --> 00:43:07,758
Speaker 3: And the other day Troty hit a home run, although

969
00:43:07,798 --> 00:43:09,238
Speaker 3: that was center cut ninety five.

970
00:43:09,238 --> 00:43:12,678
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness in Fenway, say, damn, you know he

971
00:43:12,878 --> 00:43:15,038
Speaker 4: it's threw right into his barrel and it just and

972
00:43:15,078 --> 00:43:17,398
Speaker 4: he got his a hack on it, and that's legit.

973
00:43:17,558 --> 00:43:20,478
Speaker 4: But I've seen, like I said, fly balls and whatever,

974
00:43:20,558 --> 00:43:22,638
Speaker 4: so I'll keep a close eye on it. I'm probably wrong,

975
00:43:22,838 --> 00:43:25,838
Speaker 4: but nevertheless I have I know what I'm seeing, and

976
00:43:25,838 --> 00:43:26,838
Speaker 4: so we're gonna.

977
00:43:26,598 --> 00:43:26,998
Speaker 3: Stay with this.

978
00:43:27,078 --> 00:43:28,718
Speaker 4: I'm not giving up on the theory yet, so we'll

979
00:43:28,718 --> 00:43:29,678
Speaker 4: see how it all plays.

980
00:43:29,478 --> 00:43:29,998
Speaker 2: Out, all right.

981
00:43:30,038 --> 00:43:31,838
Speaker 1: Well, just to give you some more numbers, because we

982
00:43:31,878 --> 00:43:35,638
Speaker 1: do like the data here, home runs and run scored

983
00:43:35,678 --> 00:43:38,598
Speaker 1: per game are down for a second straight year this year.

984
00:43:39,638 --> 00:43:43,758
Speaker 1: Slugging is at its lowest point in a decade. Ops

985
00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:47,038
Speaker 1: is at the lowest point since twenty fourteen. We're down

986
00:43:47,118 --> 00:43:49,318
Speaker 1: kind of across the border offensively this year.

987
00:43:49,398 --> 00:43:49,558
Speaker 2: Now.

988
00:43:49,558 --> 00:43:52,518
Speaker 1: Again, the good news is the strikeout rate is also down.

989
00:43:52,878 --> 00:43:55,118
Speaker 1: But this is why we're talking about the South Freelix

990
00:43:55,158 --> 00:43:57,958
Speaker 1: of the world, Joe. It's the home runs aren't coming

991
00:43:58,078 --> 00:44:00,998
Speaker 1: as often, and it's more important than ever to try

992
00:44:00,998 --> 00:44:03,798
Speaker 1: to put the ball in play and make something happen

993
00:44:04,038 --> 00:44:05,358
Speaker 1: with the ball and play.

994
00:44:06,118 --> 00:44:08,678
Speaker 4: You suggested earlier with staying away from slug. I know

995
00:44:08,718 --> 00:44:10,678
Speaker 4: that was a big part of the twenty sixteen Cubs.

996
00:44:10,678 --> 00:44:13,598
Speaker 4: It goes back that far. That was the pitching philosophy there.

997
00:44:13,758 --> 00:44:15,878
Speaker 4: When I got there, the slug was becoming like a

998
00:44:15,918 --> 00:44:18,398
Speaker 4: more popular term at that point. I know Jimmy Leland

999
00:44:18,438 --> 00:44:21,118
Speaker 4: was really into it early on with when he was

1000
00:44:21,118 --> 00:44:21,718
Speaker 4: with Detroit.

1001
00:44:21,758 --> 00:44:22,838
Speaker 3: Slug slug slug.

1002
00:44:23,358 --> 00:44:26,318
Speaker 4: And so when you get there, all the meetings with

1003
00:44:26,398 --> 00:44:28,878
Speaker 4: the Cub pitchers was always about staying away from slug.

1004
00:44:28,918 --> 00:44:31,518
Speaker 4: That was that was the motivation. Make them, you know,

1005
00:44:31,558 --> 00:44:33,998
Speaker 4: get several hits in order to score as opposed to one.

1006
00:44:34,518 --> 00:44:38,358
Speaker 4: And so now just it's even extrapolated to the point

1007
00:44:38,358 --> 00:44:41,438
Speaker 4: now where yeah, it's all about staying away from slug

1008
00:44:41,478 --> 00:44:43,998
Speaker 4: and like you're suggesting, that's going to require a different

1009
00:44:43,998 --> 00:44:48,918
Speaker 4: animal to combat that offensively. So again, balance see what

1010
00:44:49,038 --> 00:44:52,238
Speaker 4: this takes us. I love the idea that the game

1011
00:44:52,318 --> 00:44:56,678
Speaker 4: is becoming more open minded to real baseball kind of hitters. Again,

1012
00:44:56,718 --> 00:44:59,438
Speaker 4: baseball players in general. I still want to nurture both

1013
00:44:59,438 --> 00:45:01,998
Speaker 4: sides of the sole thing. And if in fact it's

1014
00:45:02,038 --> 00:45:04,958
Speaker 4: there right now and everything else is down, I don't

1015
00:45:04,998 --> 00:45:07,878
Speaker 4: see a dramatic development where this stuff is all of

1016
00:45:07,878 --> 00:45:09,598
Speaker 4: a sudden going to increase. So it's going to be

1017
00:45:09,598 --> 00:45:12,958
Speaker 4: about defense, your pitching staff, your defense, your base running,

1018
00:45:13,518 --> 00:45:15,678
Speaker 4: move the ball, put the ball in play like Rip suggested,

1019
00:45:15,718 --> 00:45:18,798
Speaker 4: maybe a butt now, and then it's the game is

1020
00:45:18,838 --> 00:45:21,758
Speaker 4: being driven back into the Stone ages again, just by

1021
00:45:21,798 --> 00:45:24,118
Speaker 4: the fact that you've developed the pictures of the point

1022
00:45:24,118 --> 00:45:27,118
Speaker 4: in Philosophically, we're staying away from slug So I'm not

1023
00:45:27,118 --> 00:45:28,558
Speaker 4: going to pitch this guy right now. I'm not going

1024
00:45:28,598 --> 00:45:31,518
Speaker 4: to throw Pitchers throw homers more than hitters hit them.

1025
00:45:31,678 --> 00:45:34,798
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, to borrow your phrase, I love

1026
00:45:34,918 --> 00:45:37,838
Speaker 1: the liberal arts style of baseball. I want teams that

1027
00:45:37,918 --> 00:45:39,758
Speaker 1: have many ways to win a ball game. And I

1028
00:45:39,798 --> 00:45:42,918
Speaker 1: do think whether it was an intended consequence or not,

1029
00:45:43,078 --> 00:45:45,878
Speaker 1: the rule changes from a couple of years ago are

1030
00:45:45,998 --> 00:45:48,558
Speaker 1: welcoming that all around player back to the game. When

1031
00:45:48,558 --> 00:45:50,438
Speaker 1: you think about the lack of shifts, you need some

1032
00:45:50,478 --> 00:45:53,078
Speaker 1: more range and athleticism on defense. There are now holes

1033
00:45:53,078 --> 00:45:55,918
Speaker 1: open up on the infield where you can actually and

1034
00:45:55,998 --> 00:45:58,238
Speaker 1: I know people don't want to hit ground balls, but

1035
00:45:58,318 --> 00:46:01,438
Speaker 1: you can get ground balls through for base hits. The

1036
00:46:01,478 --> 00:46:04,678
Speaker 1: stolen base obviously is a lot easier year now, and

1037
00:46:04,718 --> 00:46:07,598
Speaker 1: they're more attempts so speed plays. I think all these

1038
00:46:07,638 --> 00:46:11,518
Speaker 1: things are bringing that player back into the game, and

1039
00:46:11,598 --> 00:46:15,118
Speaker 1: hopefully Joe by bringing up the liberal arts style of baseball,

1040
00:46:15,718 --> 00:46:17,678
Speaker 1: I'm leading you to the thought of the day because

1041
00:46:17,678 --> 00:46:19,518
Speaker 1: you kind of hinted at it earlier, we might be

1042
00:46:19,598 --> 00:46:20,638
Speaker 1: going down that road.

1043
00:46:20,678 --> 00:46:23,878
Speaker 4: What do you got, Yeah, well, you're talking about the changes,

1044
00:46:23,918 --> 00:46:25,958
Speaker 4: like you know, these these subtle changes that seem to

1045
00:46:25,958 --> 00:46:29,238
Speaker 4: be in effect, the more dramatic changes that have occurred

1046
00:46:29,238 --> 00:46:32,318
Speaker 4: over what the last fifteen years, where we've gone more

1047
00:46:32,638 --> 00:46:35,278
Speaker 4: from a I guess like a traditional method of teaching

1048
00:46:35,318 --> 00:46:37,678
Speaker 4: the game to more of a analytical method of teaching

1049
00:46:37,678 --> 00:46:41,918
Speaker 4: the game, where that's been the strong shift over the

1050
00:46:41,998 --> 00:46:44,518
Speaker 4: last I'm saying, what is this twenty twenty five, I'm

1051
00:46:44,558 --> 00:46:46,398
Speaker 4: saying over the last twenty years, that's pretty much when

1052
00:46:46,438 --> 00:46:48,878
Speaker 4: it started, right when I first got to the Rays.

1053
00:46:48,878 --> 00:46:51,958
Speaker 4: And now you want to make another shift, another tectonic

1054
00:46:51,958 --> 00:46:53,878
Speaker 4: shift where you're going to move They're going to move

1055
00:46:53,918 --> 00:46:59,038
Speaker 4: the continents around again. So from Albert Einstein, And you

1056
00:46:59,038 --> 00:47:01,518
Speaker 4: know what, Albert Einstein is almost like AI. If you

1057
00:47:01,558 --> 00:47:04,078
Speaker 4: take the e office last name, it could be he

1058
00:47:04,078 --> 00:47:07,158
Speaker 4: could be Ai, the first Ai, which he probably was,

1059
00:47:07,878 --> 00:47:10,358
Speaker 4: but he said it takes a touch of genius and

1060
00:47:10,398 --> 00:47:12,438
Speaker 4: a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.

1061
00:47:12,878 --> 00:47:14,838
Speaker 3: Right, So that's how it was in the.

1062
00:47:14,798 --> 00:47:17,718
Speaker 4: Beginning, when I first started out with the Rays, we

1063
00:47:17,758 --> 00:47:19,798
Speaker 4: started moving in the opposite direction. We got you know,

1064
00:47:20,038 --> 00:47:22,758
Speaker 4: people are honest all the time to think they're smart,

1065
00:47:22,758 --> 00:47:24,798
Speaker 4: and everybody else in a room all this other.

1066
00:47:24,678 --> 00:47:27,078
Speaker 3: Kind of commentary. But we had to do that in

1067
00:47:27,198 --> 00:47:29,358
Speaker 3: order to be competitive in the Al East. We had

1068
00:47:29,358 --> 00:47:30,278
Speaker 3: to do something differently.

1069
00:47:30,718 --> 00:47:32,518
Speaker 4: We couldn't compete with them financially, so we had to

1070
00:47:32,518 --> 00:47:35,398
Speaker 4: play different kind of game physically and mentally. Okay, then

1071
00:47:35,438 --> 00:47:37,558
Speaker 4: here you go twenty years later and all of a

1072
00:47:37,598 --> 00:47:40,998
Speaker 4: sudden takes a touch of genius encouraged to move in

1073
00:47:41,038 --> 00:47:44,718
Speaker 4: the opposite direction. Maybe that's what we're seeing another moving

1074
00:47:44,758 --> 00:47:48,158
Speaker 4: into the opposite direction. In regards to softening up a

1075
00:47:48,198 --> 00:47:53,158
Speaker 4: bit on this more sterile approach, this more five hundred approach,

1076
00:47:53,238 --> 00:47:55,478
Speaker 4: if I want to be like everybody else, and maybe

1077
00:47:55,878 --> 00:47:59,798
Speaker 4: understanding that balance is required and almost everything, not almost everything,

1078
00:47:59,838 --> 00:48:02,478
Speaker 4: and everything we do in life, extremism doesn't work. It

1079
00:48:02,558 --> 00:48:05,038
Speaker 4: just doesn't work. And you're seeing the politic We're seeing

1080
00:48:05,078 --> 00:48:06,198
Speaker 4: it all over.

1081
00:48:05,998 --> 00:48:06,918
Speaker 3: The world right now.

1082
00:48:07,518 --> 00:48:09,918
Speaker 4: The balanced approach, a more human approach, I think is

1083
00:48:09,918 --> 00:48:11,678
Speaker 4: what we need right now. So it takes a lot

1084
00:48:11,718 --> 00:48:13,958
Speaker 4: of courage to moving the opposite direction, and mister Einstein

1085
00:48:13,998 --> 00:48:14,638
Speaker 4: pointed that out.

1086
00:48:14,798 --> 00:48:17,158
Speaker 1: I love the use of the word that you brought

1087
00:48:17,158 --> 00:48:19,398
Speaker 1: this up, and Albert obviously is the one who gave

1088
00:48:19,438 --> 00:48:21,838
Speaker 1: it to us. Courage when it comes to going in

1089
00:48:21,878 --> 00:48:24,238
Speaker 1: the opposite direction, right, the easiest thing.

1090
00:48:24,118 --> 00:48:27,878
Speaker 2: To do is literally go with the flow. Right.

1091
00:48:27,998 --> 00:48:31,918
Speaker 1: Yes, So the conviction that you have, even if you're wrong,

1092
00:48:31,998 --> 00:48:34,558
Speaker 1: but the conviction that you have to go in an

1093
00:48:34,558 --> 00:48:37,878
Speaker 1: opposite direction, that's where greatness is born. Because I tell

1094
00:48:37,918 --> 00:48:40,158
Speaker 1: people all the time, and especially as students, you know,

1095
00:48:40,678 --> 00:48:43,958
Speaker 1: looking for advice, if you want to be like everybody else,

1096
00:48:44,318 --> 00:48:48,038
Speaker 1: that's literally the definition of average. Who wants to be average,

1097
00:48:48,318 --> 00:48:51,758
Speaker 1: find your own way, be a little salmon going upstream,

1098
00:48:51,918 --> 00:48:54,718
Speaker 1: you know, fight the current, and usually that's where you'll

1099
00:48:54,758 --> 00:48:55,478
Speaker 1: find greatness.

1100
00:48:55,718 --> 00:49:00,278
Speaker 4: Yes, fortune favors the bold, Fortune favors the bold. Timidity

1101
00:49:00,358 --> 00:49:04,118
Speaker 4: doesn't work, status quota doesn't work all the time. I'm

1102
00:49:04,158 --> 00:49:07,158
Speaker 4: not just saying change for this just to change or

1103
00:49:07,838 --> 00:49:10,958
Speaker 4: the term progressive to me is such a misnomer a

1104
00:49:11,038 --> 00:49:13,918
Speaker 4: lot of times because it's automatically assumed that it's something better.

1105
00:49:13,958 --> 00:49:14,238
Speaker 3: It's not.

1106
00:49:14,838 --> 00:49:17,798
Speaker 4: It's just a it's a different thought to be progressive

1107
00:49:18,238 --> 00:49:20,478
Speaker 4: as I'm thinking about the same thing in a different way,

1108
00:49:20,598 --> 00:49:23,798
Speaker 4: not necessarily always a good thing. So it takes a

1109
00:49:23,838 --> 00:49:26,238
Speaker 4: lot of courage to take that first step. I mean,

1110
00:49:26,358 --> 00:49:27,798
Speaker 4: there's a lot of things that I've done as a

1111
00:49:27,838 --> 00:49:29,838
Speaker 4: manager and I know, like, man, I'll come to the ballpark,

1112
00:49:29,838 --> 00:49:31,918
Speaker 4: We're going to try this today, and I'll hold my

1113
00:49:31,958 --> 00:49:33,998
Speaker 4: breath a little bit. I'll say, is this, man, am

1114
00:49:34,038 --> 00:49:35,518
Speaker 4: I crazy? What are we doing here? And then all

1115
00:49:35,558 --> 00:49:37,838
Speaker 4: of a sudden, poom, corny becomes cool. All of a

1116
00:49:37,878 --> 00:49:40,198
Speaker 4: sudden it starts to work, and then everybody else wants

1117
00:49:40,238 --> 00:49:43,838
Speaker 4: to adopt your methods. So if you really believe in something,

1118
00:49:43,838 --> 00:49:46,238
Speaker 4: if you believe and you put in the time, and

1119
00:49:46,278 --> 00:49:50,238
Speaker 4: this is this is where a combination of book learning

1120
00:49:50,438 --> 00:49:53,438
Speaker 4: or the experience of playing or something you've done in

1121
00:49:53,478 --> 00:49:57,438
Speaker 4: the past, and then it combines data information combining with experience,

1122
00:49:57,878 --> 00:50:02,398
Speaker 4: and that's where you I think you have more fortitude

1123
00:50:02,398 --> 00:50:04,838
Speaker 4: in regards to wanting to take these steps and having

1124
00:50:04,878 --> 00:50:07,758
Speaker 4: the courage because it's not just about the information. I

1125
00:50:07,798 --> 00:50:10,758
Speaker 4: think it's about your experiences. Also that permits you to

1126
00:50:10,758 --> 00:50:12,678
Speaker 4: take these kind of leaps, because if you don't have

1127
00:50:12,718 --> 00:50:15,998
Speaker 4: the experience, probably you've probably tried this in some way

1128
00:50:16,038 --> 00:50:17,918
Speaker 4: before where nobody was watching.

1129
00:50:17,958 --> 00:50:19,718
Speaker 3: And that's really off Broadway.

1130
00:50:19,998 --> 00:50:22,478
Speaker 4: You got to try this stuff off Broadway to really

1131
00:50:22,478 --> 00:50:25,438
Speaker 4: be convicted about it when you get the opportunity. And

1132
00:50:25,478 --> 00:50:29,638
Speaker 4: I think that's for me, the most wonderful part about

1133
00:50:29,678 --> 00:50:32,078
Speaker 4: my past as a coach and a manager whatever was

1134
00:50:32,118 --> 00:50:33,518
Speaker 4: the fact I had a lot of chances to do

1135
00:50:33,598 --> 00:50:36,478
Speaker 4: things off Broadway before we got there, and then so

1136
00:50:36,558 --> 00:50:38,918
Speaker 4: when you try them, it might look nuts, but I've

1137
00:50:38,918 --> 00:50:40,798
Speaker 4: been through this before and I feel pretty good about it.

1138
00:50:41,038 --> 00:50:42,398
Speaker 2: Corny becomes cool.

1139
00:50:42,998 --> 00:50:45,558
Speaker 1: I think you just gave me another thought of the day, Joe,

1140
00:50:46,038 --> 00:50:48,878
Speaker 1: and for some reason I flashed back to nineteen seventies

1141
00:50:48,958 --> 00:50:51,958
Speaker 1: fashion leaser suits and platforms shoes.

1142
00:50:52,438 --> 00:50:53,998
Speaker 2: Thanks for that, dudes.

1143
00:50:54,118 --> 00:50:56,678
Speaker 3: I got my leaders suit right over there in the closet.

1144
00:50:57,158 --> 00:50:58,918
Speaker 2: It's a nice I don't doubt it.

1145
00:50:58,918 --> 00:50:59,678
Speaker 3: It's right over there.

1146
00:50:59,718 --> 00:51:01,838
Speaker 2: What color you got green? Avocado green?

1147
00:51:02,038 --> 00:51:05,118
Speaker 4: It's kind of like, no, it's it's kind of like

1148
00:51:05,798 --> 00:51:08,598
Speaker 4: it's almost like, honestly thought, it's almost like Philadelphia Eagles green,

1149
00:51:08,798 --> 00:51:09,758
Speaker 4: like that dark green.

1150
00:51:09,598 --> 00:51:11,438
Speaker 2: That they got I wasn't far off.

1151
00:51:11,478 --> 00:51:12,358
Speaker 3: You weren't far off.

1152
00:51:12,718 --> 00:51:15,598
Speaker 1: Hopefully you got some Peter Max print shirt with the

1153
00:51:15,678 --> 00:51:18,118
Speaker 1: long collars to put on underneath it.

1154
00:51:18,198 --> 00:51:19,398
Speaker 3: Don't you love Peter Max.

1155
00:51:19,838 --> 00:51:22,318
Speaker 4: I got some Peter Max not real prints, but like

1156
00:51:22,398 --> 00:51:23,718
Speaker 4: fake prints, but they're really.

1157
00:51:23,478 --> 00:51:24,478
Speaker 2: Cool, great stuff.

1158
00:51:24,558 --> 00:51:24,718
Speaker 3: Joe.

1159
00:51:24,758 --> 00:51:26,318
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time on the Book of Joe.

1160
00:51:26,638 --> 00:51:29,238
Speaker 3: See your brother. Thanks man.

1161
00:51:35,118 --> 00:51:38,318
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1162
00:51:38,558 --> 00:51:42,398
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1163
00:51:42,478 --> 00:51:45,438
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.