1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,400
Speaker 2: Well, welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

5
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,760
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

6
00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,120
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong.

7
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,000
Speaker 3: Listen, Body move In is out for the night. She's

8
00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:31,040
Speaker 3: actually out for the week.

9
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 2: But we have veteran trial attorney Jarrett Farantino is back

10
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,600
Speaker 2: with us to break down a lot of juicy cases

11
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 2: that are happening in real time. And Jarrett, you've come

12
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,680
Speaker 2: on quite the night because the news is very real

13
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: right now. It is, of course, Monday, September eighth, And listen,

14
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 2: big bombshells in the Epstein investigation, more dumping of information.

15
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 2: The infamous birthday book has been released. We're going to

16
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,360
Speaker 2: unpack what that does or does not mean. Also, Jared's

17
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 2: going to break down for us this incredible quadruple hideous

18
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 2: homicide that has happened in New Jersey. So listen that

19
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 2: we want to hear from you. Eight eight eight three

20
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,080
Speaker 2: to one Crime. Please join the conversation anytime live or

21
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,320
Speaker 2: leave us a talkback on the iHeartRadio app. Or he

22
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 2: could also hit us up in our socials at True

23
00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,759
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight show on Instagram and TikTok or at True

24
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,319
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight on Facebook.

25
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 3: So let's just jump right in, kids.

26
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 2: So Epstein, you know, we know that the House Committee,

27
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 2: you know, the Oversight Board, had subpoenaed the estate of

28
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein to get some of these documents, maybe some logs,

29
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,920
Speaker 2: maybe some financial information, maybe some of these non disclosure agreements.

30
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: And you know, just as we came on to air,

31
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 2: this dump has occurred. And you know, there's this infamous

32
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 2: birthday card or this like book I guess that was

33
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:03,640
Speaker 2: made for epstein fiftieth birthday. We're told by Glaine Maxwell,

34
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 2: his co conspirator, that it was prepared by her. And

35
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,120
Speaker 2: what's getting the most attention right now is that in

36
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,440
Speaker 2: it there is one specific note from President Donald Trump,

37
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,079
Speaker 2: and he is saying that it is not real and

38
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 2: that it is maybe it's fake or has been faked,

39
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,040
Speaker 2: but has nothing to do with him.

40
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 3: And I'm dying to hear what you guys think.

41
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 4: It's a very very bizarre quote birthday message. It's written

42
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 4: as a little playlet. It starts with voiceover. I mean,

43
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 4: it just it's honestly strange.

44
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 3: Should we just want to read it? Just straight up

45
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,680
Speaker 3: read it? Yeah?

46
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 4: So it's it's it's type written text. It's framed by

47
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:53,840
Speaker 4: the outline of a naked woman's silhouette, and it says, voiceover,

48
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 4: there must be more to life than having everything. Donald, Yes,

49
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,680
Speaker 4: there is, but I won't tell you what it is, Jeffrey,

50
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 4: nor will I since I also know what it is.

51
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 3: Donald.

52
00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,120
Speaker 4: We have certain things in common, Jeffrey. Jeffrey, Yes, we do,

53
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,880
Speaker 4: come to think of it, Donald, Enigma's never age. Have

54
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,240
Speaker 4: you noticed that, Jeffrey. As a matter of fact, it

55
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 4: was clear to me the last time I saw you. Finally, Donald,

56
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,079
Speaker 4: pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and may every

57
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,360
Speaker 4: day be another wonderful secret. It just seems strange, Jared,

58
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 4: what's your gut on this birthday? Note?

59
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 5: Well, look, this was, first of all, good evening. I

60
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 5: feel like it jinks for this show every time I'm

61
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 5: on it. It's like.

62
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 3: We had a very different show started.

63
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,160
Speaker 2: You know, we were going down a very different path

64
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 2: an hour ago, and here we are.

65
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 3: Welcome.

66
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 5: Jarrey. You didn't tell me body was moving so like

67
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,720
Speaker 5: our body was out. So I'm like trying to fill

68
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,120
Speaker 5: in some big shoes that I hear. Here's what I

69
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,880
Speaker 5: think it does. It the two thousand and three Donald Trump,

70
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 5: if as alleged he wrote, this does not sound the

71
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 5: same as the twenty twenty five Donald Trump. I look

72
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 5: at this. It's odd. I cannot imagine the man that

73
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 5: is currently in the White House writing I guess this

74
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 5: is poetry with the voice Solder. I just to me,

75
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 5: it does not sound like President Trump at all. It

76
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 5: just doesn't. And certainly there's a lot out there that

77
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 5: that's similar with his signature. You know, I think we're

78
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 5: all familiar with President Trump's signature at this point, so

79
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 5: for the moment, it doesn't sound like him. Some Democrats

80
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 5: on that committee feel very strongly that it is a

81
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 5: document provided by President Trump. The rumor that this was

82
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 5: coming has prompted strong language and a response from the

83
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 5: President saying I will sue whoever puts this out and

84
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,239
Speaker 5: says it was mine into oblivion. He's backed that threat

85
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:59,240
Speaker 5: up before, so he's strongly denying it. The House Committee

86
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,160
Speaker 5: is putting it for that, it's legitimate, and.

87
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 2: Look, there's lots of documents that we're hoping to get

88
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,400
Speaker 2: out of this, right, So I think the number one

89
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 2: thing is he denied that it existed and said that

90
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 2: he didn't write it.

91
00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,239
Speaker 3: So let's go there for a second.

92
00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 2: Is it possible that this is a fake birthday note

93
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,159
Speaker 2: or something that's being you know, created or was done

94
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,039
Speaker 2: by somebody else back in the day. But even going

95
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 2: on that front, why would somebody back in the day

96
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:30,200
Speaker 2: fake a little play between Epstein and the president thinking

97
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 2: that he would one day become the actual president. It

98
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,839
Speaker 2: wouldn't believe track. But on the flip, is it that

99
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 2: big of a deal? We know that he had a

100
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 2: relationship with Epstein for ten years, and yeah, those guys

101
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:43,039
Speaker 2: were friends.

102
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 3: We know that.

103
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 2: You know Virginia Gufrey, the main front woman of this case,

104
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 2: who was one of the main victims who was no

105
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,840
Speaker 2: longer with us, you know, she met Epstein at Mar

106
00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 2: A Lago when she was sixteen years old, so we

107
00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 2: know there was crossover that was also many many years ago. Oh,

108
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 2: does it fall into the category of different times, different days?

109
00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 3: So what who cares?

110
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 2: Or is this one of the most major drops of

111
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 2: information imaginable If it's actually real and we were told

112
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,040
Speaker 2: it didn't exist.

113
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:16,360
Speaker 3: What does that mean?

114
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,760
Speaker 2: It's like the cover up is becoming way bigger, maybe

115
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 2: than the scandal itself. But we're talking about hundreds possibly.

116
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 2: You know, so many girls are being affected about this

117
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 2: at this point. So Courtney, what's your take on this?

118
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:31,520
Speaker 3: It just it's.

119
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 4: All it's kind of all very odd, however you slice

120
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 4: it because you know, u as, does it make sense

121
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 4: that this was created and you know, two thousand and

122
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,560
Speaker 4: three with some view into the future. No, that doesn't

123
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,640
Speaker 4: make sense. And even before air we were talking about

124
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,599
Speaker 4: even the literal putting it together. Are we to believe

125
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 4: that President Donald Trump typed it himself and drew it

126
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,920
Speaker 4: himself in this perfect and signed his signature below the

127
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 4: belly button of the outline of this woman or ask

128
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 4: someone to help him do it? Like the existence, It

129
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 4: doesn't make any sense. But if it does, if it

130
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 4: is true, then I think it just speaks to a

131
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 4: bizarre relationship.

132
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:16,040
Speaker 6: To be honest.

133
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and do we think that there's more of this

134
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:18,760
Speaker 3: to come?

135
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 4: Well, TMZ, and this happened right before we came again

136
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 4: just reported. It's all alleged, but they are saying that

137
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 4: there was another thing in this birthday book, and it

138
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 4: was from a businessman and longtime Mara a Lago member,

139
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 4: a man named Joel Pashkal. And it's a picture of

140
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 4: Epstein and a few men and a woman with her

141
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 4: face blocked out with one of those huge checks like

142
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 4: you and the lotto. And the joke is about Epstein

143
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,679
Speaker 4: selling a quote fully depreciated woman to Trump for twenty

144
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 4: two five hundred dollars. So, Jared, you're shaking your head,

145
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 4: what do you think about that?

146
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,640
Speaker 5: Well, look, here's what I think the concern for the

147
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 5: president would be. If this is legitimate as the optics,

148
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 5: it references a secret between President Trump.

149
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 3: What's the secret?

150
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 5: Right? So you have the silhouette of a woman, you know,

151
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 5: you know the implication there with Jeffrey Epstein. But but

152
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 5: President Trump has never made a secret of his love

153
00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 5: of women through the years. I mean, it's never been

154
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 5: a secret. His life has been an open book in

155
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 5: that regard, very much so, certainly for the past two decades,

156
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,839
Speaker 5: if not four decades, like my entire life. But here's

157
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,080
Speaker 5: the thing. They're referencing this secret, and that's the concern.

158
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,000
Speaker 5: There should not be secrets between President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.

159
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 5: He certainly doesn't want to have secrets between him. He's doing,

160
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 5: you know, publicly, he's distancing himself from Epstein. So the

161
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,680
Speaker 5: other thing is what doesn't sound like President Trump is

162
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,720
Speaker 5: the note takes Epstein almost to President Trump's level. He

163
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,560
Speaker 5: talks about them having things in common and having things.

164
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,120
Speaker 5: From what I've seen, President Trump likes to be heads

165
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,440
Speaker 5: and shoulders above everyone in writing. He's going to put

166
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,199
Speaker 5: this poetry together and put Epstein on the same level.

167
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,960
Speaker 5: It just doesn't sound like the Donald Trump. We know.

168
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 5: That's what's suspect to me. However, Look, anything's possible, and

169
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 5: is there more Yes. I think we're going to be

170
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 5: yes in the sense that there is more documentation to come.

171
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 5: Whether or not there's going to be more notes or

172
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 5: photos of President Trump, who knows, But I think if

173
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 5: I may, you cannot ignore the fact that Gallainne Maxwell

174
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,319
Speaker 5: under oath, has said he's not aware of any wrongdoing

175
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,600
Speaker 5: with President Trump. She saw him do, never do anything inappropriate,

176
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 5: and that's under oath. She's locked in on that testimony.

177
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,520
Speaker 5: So that can't be ignored either well.

178
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 3: Or can it? Listen, We want you to weigh in.

179
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,000
Speaker 4: Give us a call where at eighty eight three one Crime,

180
00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,199
Speaker 4: we are talking with veteran trial attorney Jarrett Farentino about

181
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 4: this Epstein dump and Donald Trump's potential inclusion in it.

182
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 3: So I actually take issue with that.

183
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 4: I mean, Jarreed, you make a great point that gillne

184
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 4: Maxwell testified under oath, but think about what, you know,

185
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,720
Speaker 4: the situation. Now, she's testifying about the person who can

186
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,559
Speaker 4: get her a literal get out of jail free card.

187
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,840
Speaker 4: I take that with a mountain of salt.

188
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 2: And by the way, she had nothing to lose, and

189
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,520
Speaker 2: just by virtue of the fact that she had that

190
00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,960
Speaker 2: on record interview if you will, and went on basically

191
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,320
Speaker 2: saying that one hundred percent, you know, he was nothing

192
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 2: but a gentleman, and that many of the men that

193
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,400
Speaker 2: have been associated with this air quotes list were you know,

194
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 2: not in her purview. But yeah, then two days later

195
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 2: she was moved secretly to a low security prison, which

196
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,640
Speaker 2: does sort of seem like there was an exchange of

197
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,319
Speaker 2: something in that which also has never really been explained.

198
00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 2: And I think that's like a part of the puzzle

199
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 2: that's making us all feel a little enraged. You know,

200
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,200
Speaker 2: this is someone who was convicted of sex trafficking, and

201
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 2: despite Gielane Maxwell's efforts to have you know, go back

202
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 2: in time to two thousand and eight, where there was

203
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 2: a stipulation in Epstein's original mar you know, West Palm

204
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 2: Beach deal that said his co conspirators shouldn't be tried

205
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,320
Speaker 2: again and therefore she should be free. That sort of

206
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,720
Speaker 2: seems like a technicality. I mean, she was brought up

207
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 2: on sex trafficking charges. It's just feeling so muddy, and

208
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,560
Speaker 2: it's it's concerning because on the one hand, yes, we

209
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 2: want to believe what we're being told is true, and

210
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,000
Speaker 2: all the other we're also being asked to believe that.

211
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,360
Speaker 2: Conversations with world leaders went well, like, how where do

212
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 2: you draw the line between what we can believe and

213
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 2: what we don't believe? And I think that's what's making

214
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,880
Speaker 2: everybody feel so extra amped about it. He specifically said

215
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 2: that this did not exist. Oh, by the way, it exists,

216
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,839
Speaker 2: despite the lawsuit against the New York Times for a

217
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,080
Speaker 2: bajillion dollars.

218
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 3: Now Here it is. There's like living proof of it.

219
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 2: And you know, I think the assertion would be that

220
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,839
Speaker 2: there's more flight logs and more address books and information

221
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,559
Speaker 2: coming out that would show some of the non disclosure

222
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 2: agreements between many of the victims.

223
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,120
Speaker 3: We know there's real money being exchanged here.

224
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,040
Speaker 2: I mean, that's another thing that I thought was exceptionally alerting.

225
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 2: Just taking this off of Trump for a second, just

226
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 2: the idea that JP Morgan or Deutsche Bank or these

227
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:36,079
Speaker 2: implications that there's you know, potential foreign governments that involved here.

228
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 3: That's a really big statement.

229
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,520
Speaker 2: And getting verifications of that which it appears is happening

230
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,960
Speaker 2: in real time is pretty notable.

231
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,560
Speaker 5: Well, I agree, but and I'm not naive, okay, but

232
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 5: I have called many witnesses to the stand that have

233
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 5: had arrangements with my office as a former prosecutor. You

234
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,800
Speaker 5: know that goes to their bias. I'm not ignorant of

235
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 5: the fact that gillne Maxwell was transferred shortly after that testimony.

236
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,200
Speaker 5: Did that color her testimony maybe, But one of the

237
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 5: things you said, Stephanie was that she has nothing to

238
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,319
Speaker 5: lose if she lies under oath. He's a perjurer, Okay,

239
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,840
Speaker 5: her testimony is unusable at that point down the road

240
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,040
Speaker 5: for a subsequent prosecution. So and again I'm not being

241
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 5: naive only to say we have a poem that's allegedly

242
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,200
Speaker 5: signed by the president, but we had a live witness

243
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 5: just a few weeks ago. Take a very different position

244
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 5: with regard to the president's conduct. Now you can make

245
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 5: certainly an assertion about any biases she may have had.

246
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,800
Speaker 5: It's certainly worth considering. I agree.

247
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like apox on all their houses, you know, Jared,

248
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,560
Speaker 2: we were talking between before the break and listen. I

249
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 2: know we only have a moment too before we wrap up,

250
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,920
Speaker 2: So make sure you stick with us because we're absolutely

251
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,200
Speaker 2: going to continue this conversation. But something to leave our

252
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 2: listeners with, and please join the conversation eight eight eight

253
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,439
Speaker 2: three one crime we really want to hear from you.

254
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 3: We don't all have to agree about this.

255
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 2: This is just an unpack right in hopes of kind

256
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,560
Speaker 2: of understanding better. But one of the things you mentioned,

257
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,880
Speaker 2: you know, during the break, which was sort of curious,

258
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 2: is listen, where are we going with this? Like is

259
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 2: there a greater message in this? Is this something that

260
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 2: we should all just look away from, or is this

261
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,320
Speaker 2: something that we all need to be leaning into more.

262
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 3: I don't totally know the answer to that.

263
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 4: It is all very confusing, it's all coming at avalanche speed,

264
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 4: and it's really difficult to decipher what is what, but

265
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 4: you know, stick with us.

266
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 3: We'll keep unpacking.

267
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 4: We actually have some information about JP Morgan Chase that

268
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 4: has just come out with this Epstein dump that we'll

269
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 4: talk about. And Jarrett Farentino will be breaking down a

270
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 4: shocking new Jersey quadruple homicide case True Crime tonight.

271
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:01,840
Speaker 3: Jared is bringing in the heat.

272
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 2: We are talking all things Epstein at the moment, and

273
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 2: the most recent developments of documents that have now been released,

274
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,640
Speaker 2: the infamous birthday book that we've all heard so much about.

275
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,000
Speaker 2: So if you have an opinion, please join us eight

276
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,840
Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime. We want to hear from you.

277
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 2: In fact, we have a caller right now.

278
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 3: Randy. Hi, Randy, welcome to the show. What's your question?

279
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 7: Yes, I was listening to you know, some of your

280
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 7: show about this the Epstein and you know Donald Trump

281
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 7: supposing you know, signing this cartoon.

282
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

283
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 7: The way everything's been released with Epstein and the way

284
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 7: his death was, how whether it's even dead or not,

285
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 7: is how convenient. All the cameras didn't work in the

286
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 7: guards were asleep, right, anything comes on there. I am

287
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 7: very leary of trusting as being factual.

288
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 3: Fair, And I guess that's part of the trouble, you know.

289
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,040
Speaker 2: And it's a very good point, Randy, Randy, you said

290
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 2: something very specific there just right now.

291
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 3: Do you think Epstein is still alive?

292
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 2: Because there are conspiracy theorists that say some say he

293
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 2: was killed, some say he committed suicide, and others say

294
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 2: he's still alive.

295
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 3: I believe he's still alive.

296
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 7: Was he had the means to uh, he had the

297
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 7: means to arrange all this financially.

298
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about that until I read this today.

299
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 2: So well, listen, thank you for your thank you for

300
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 2: the call, Randy. Keep listening and keep calling back. We

301
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 2: have yet another call, Lynn, Hi, Lynn, Welcome to the show.

302
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 8: Yes, so we're two points. I wanted to make one.

303
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 8: Everybody keeps talking about that birthday card picture as an

304
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,360
Speaker 8: adult woman or as a woman, and I see it

305
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 8: as a child. I mean, really look at it again.

306
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,520
Speaker 8: I mean, if you look at it, how high those

307
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 8: breasts are?

308
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 5: Look how high?

309
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,400
Speaker 2: Right? I mean that's that is a fair assessment.

310
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 3: It's not a mother.

311
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,800
Speaker 8: How tiny the shoulders are fair an adult woman that

312
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,360
Speaker 8: is not a voluptuous woman, that is a twelve year

313
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,680
Speaker 8: old at most. Also, another point I wanted to make

314
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 8: is that they broke the law when they put when

315
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,679
Speaker 8: they gave Julianne Maxwell, they sent her to that push

316
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 8: in prisoner prison, That posh prison is the they broke

317
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 8: the laws that they made after the Son of Sam.

318
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,440
Speaker 8: They made a lot of laws that people cannot get

319
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 8: any gratuities or whatever off of the crimes they committed,

320
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 8: and she's getting. They interviewed her, then they made it

321
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 8: public the interview, some of the things that she said,

322
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 8: and then they gave her a reward, So she got

323
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 8: a reward for playing along with what was an illegal act.

324
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:55,440
Speaker 5: They broke the.

325
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 8: Law a Son of Sam law. I'm sure in the

326
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,439
Speaker 8: process we have.

327
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 3: Jarrett Farantino here. Does that track for you, Jared.

328
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 2: So the point being is, thanks, by the way, Lynn,

329
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 2: great questions. We're going to answer them now with you.

330
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,919
Speaker 2: Thank you for calling. You know, listen, what's being referred

331
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 2: to right now is that Elaine Maxwell did this very

332
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,159
Speaker 2: infamous sit down on the record under oath conversation. She

333
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 2: also spoke with you know, Donald Trump's attorney, and we've

334
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 2: heard excerpts of that where she really did say, under

335
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 2: no circumstances you know, Trump and many others were nothing

336
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 2: more than gentlemen, and it wasn't in.

337
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 3: Her purview, that was not her experience.

338
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,239
Speaker 2: And yeah, to Jared's earlier point, this is something that

339
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:41,159
Speaker 2: she said under oath, which is extremely serious and not

340
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 2: the kind of thing that anyone takes lightly. And I

341
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 2: guess what you're saying is there was an exchange maybe

342
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 2: of something favor because she got put into this lower

343
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 2: security place, you know sometimes it's called Club fed, a

344
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,679
Speaker 2: lower security spot in Texas. And therefore that's breaking a

345
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,119
Speaker 2: son of Sam law in the sense of Sam law,

346
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 2: meaning that anyone who's committed a crime should never benefit

347
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 2: as a result.

348
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,199
Speaker 5: Is that accurate, Jared, Well, it's kind of confusing a

349
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 5: couple issues. It's a good point, but the son of

350
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 5: Sam law really applies to the ability for a convicted

351
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 5: criminal to write a book and profiteer write a book,

352
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 5: develop a film, conduct an interview, and in any way

353
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 5: profiteer from the details of their crime. So a couple

354
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 5: of things, we're not assuming Gillainne Maxwell received was conferred

355
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 5: some kind of a benefit because of her testimony. Now,

356
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 5: the timing of replacement certainly has caused people to speculate that. However,

357
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 5: when someone testifies as a prosecutor, they are oftentimes at

358
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,880
Speaker 5: risk after that testimony. That's point number one. Number two,

359
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 5: you do have some control over where people can be placed,

360
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 5: So placing someone in another type of facility following their

361
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 5: testimony is not a violation of the son of sam law.

362
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 5: Question the infinite what's behind that question is she's receiving

363
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 5: a benefit as a result of her crime. It's really

364
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,640
Speaker 5: not what's happening here. There's two assumptions that are happening.

365
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 5: Number One, was there a benefit promised to her at all?

366
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 5: Or was that just convenient timing? We truly don't know.

367
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 3: There's no way that was convenient.

368
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 2: Giant parents, you know with a straight face, you can't

369
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 2: assume that that is not obscene timing.

370
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 3: She's a convicted sex trafficker.

371
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 2: She was convicted, literally convicted of sex trafficking of a minor,

372
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 2: enticement of a minor to.

373
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 3: Travel to engage in sex acts.

374
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,479
Speaker 2: We've heard the tales of her driving the helicopter with

375
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: young victims with her in the helicopter to the island itself.

376
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 2: She was convicted of conspiracy to transport miners with intent

377
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 2: to engage in criminal sexual activity.

378
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 3: How does that become a low security No.

379
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 5: No, I'm not suggesting she may have had the benefit

380
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,320
Speaker 5: of some bargain with prosecutors. We're not privy to that.

381
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 5: So was it convenient timing or is it part of

382
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 5: a deal that we're not privy to. Either can be true.

383
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 5: It is suspect timing that you provide this testimony. If

384
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 5: you're looking at this from a political standpoint, it's favorable

385
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 5: to the party in power, to the president, and you

386
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 5: receive some kind of a benefit. I get it, Believe me,

387
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 5: I get it. But the reality is when you start

388
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 5: moving around a federal inmate and they provide testimony and

389
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 5: their high profile after that testimony, they could be placed

390
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 5: elsewhere for a period of time. It happens. So again,

391
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 5: I don't know the answer in her particular situation why

392
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 5: she was placed where she was at that moment, And

393
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 5: we have no indication that she received or that there

394
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 5: was a deal to get that other than speculation, right.

395
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: And there has been so much speculation, and I guess

396
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 2: that's part of the issue as well, and even taking

397
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: it off of Trump, because it does it it feels

398
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 2: terrible for any of us to be talking about our president.

399
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 2: We all respect this country so much, so it's almost

400
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 2: like these are complicated conversations to even have to have.

401
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 3: However, here we are.

402
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 2: Now we're again talking about something that was supposed to

403
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 2: not be an issue whatsoever, and that didn't exist, and

404
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: again it seems to exist, whether it's false or otherwise.

405
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 2: We have to also assume that the Oversight Committee is

406
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 2: not putting forward fake documents at this point, and that

407
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 2: those are being vetted real time as well, and there's

408
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,239
Speaker 2: more documents to be included in that.

409
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 3: Think about it.

410
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: Non disclosure forms like those are very major. What were

411
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: the agreements that were made with victims? There's been so

412
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: much transfers of money. We're talking so much money now

413
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 2: we're just like following that, like where was Epstein being funded?

414
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 2: Like how was he being funded? And you know, court

415
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: and go ahead. You were raising your hands.

416
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 4: Oh well, I was going to say, on the money front,

417
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 4: have you guys dug into what is being alleged with

418
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 4: JP Morgan Chase and Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, so this has

419
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 4: been pretty pretty illustrative. So JP Morgan Chase continue doing

420
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 4: business with Jeffrey Epstein for many, many years and this

421
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 4: was despite internal concerns about his sex crimes. And what's

422
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 4: alleged is that Jeffrey Epstein was a highly profitable client.

423
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 4: He made a lot of connections for JP Morgan Chase

424
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 4: that got them a lot of money. And he generated

425
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 4: apparently over a billion with a B dollars in transactions

426
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 4: through JP Morgan, introducing major clients including Google co founder

427
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 4: Surgey And oh.

428
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: How does this guy have all of these connections? Jeffrey

429
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: Epstein seems like a man of many faces. How does

430
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 2: he have all this money? Why all these wild connections.

431
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: He doesn't have such an illustrious background. It's almost like

432
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: Gelaye Maxwell does.

433
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 4: And that is why the pair connected because of her socialite.

434
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 4: I mean a part of it is that she brought

435
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 4: society along with her, not that he wasn't already making,

436
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 4: you know, inroads. But this is so according to the

437
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 4: New Times. And then I want to hear what you

438
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 4: guys think about this. Epstein used JP Morgan as what

439
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 4: they call a crucial cog in his sex trafficking operation.

440
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 4: While he was regularly sexually abusing teenage girls been convicted

441
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 4: and young women.

442
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: He was literally convicted of that. So that's not even

443
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: speculative correct.

444
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 4: JP Morgan processed more than forty seven hundred transactions that

445
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 4: totaled more than one billion with a B dollars for him.

446
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 4: This included payments to victims and it also includes money

447
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 4: wired to Russian Eastern European banks that appeared connected to

448
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 4: Epstein's sex trafficking operations. So this was all published, Jared,

449
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 4: what are your thoughts.

450
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 5: Well, look, being convicted of a felony or any type

451
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 5: of crime could be a violation of your mortgage or

452
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 5: certain loan documents. So like, those are the rules we

453
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 5: all have to play by looking at the life of

454
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein. If that's true and they continue to bank

455
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 5: with him, they didn't debank him, that's concerning, you know,

456
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 5: And you know, knowledge is a powerful thing. Did Jeffrey

457
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 5: Epstein blackmail people with information he had? You know, there's

458
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 5: so many questions that people have that are unanswered. I

459
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 5: have suspicions, and I'd love to go into my suspicions.

460
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 5: Unfortunately we can't because they're not necessarily substantiated with fact.

461
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 5: But the reality is, if you're loaning someone money and

462
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 5: they're running a follow of the law and they're accused

463
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 5: of the type of crimes, sexual crimes and involving minors,

464
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 5: as Jeffrey Epstein has that's not a safe bet for

465
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 5: a loan. At a minimum, that's the least of his problems,

466
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 5: but he should not be getting the bank's money.

467
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: And when we're talking such large amounts of money, and

468
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: whether that's dealing with foreign governments, and also the Deutsche

469
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: Bank connection that we're seeing more about today as well.

470
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: It does seem like we are at a pressure point

471
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: right there's allegedly going to be more of these information

472
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: and documents being given along the way. There seems to

473
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 2: be like they're pretty close to being having to compel

474
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: to get all of the documents allegedly by the end

475
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 2: of September, which is again right around the corner.

476
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 3: It's not even possible.

477
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: Wait, hold on, I misunderstood that there's a deadline that

478
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 4: every single document must be.

479
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: No no, they were saying.

480
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: The speaker of the House Oversight Committee was saying that

481
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 2: the hope is that by the end of September they

482
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: will have access to all of these documents because they'll

483
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: have the said amount of votes that are needed to

484
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: be able to get the proper subpoena to compel you know,

485
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: all of these documents away from the Epstein estate and

486
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: the DOJ and the FBI and the CSI, and it

487
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 2: seems as though the CSI, the FBI, there seems as

488
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: though there's a lot of you know, CIA, there's a

489
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: lot of fractions that have different pieces of the puzzle.

490
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 4: I mean, if that, if that's the case and it

491
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 4: all comes out, that'll be Listen, It'll be what the

492
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 4: country has been collectively banging pots and pans about for

493
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 4: quite a bit. Jared, you made an interesting point when

494
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 4: off the air about what the Democratic like, how likely

495
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 4: you thought it would be that if damaging information actually

496
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 4: factually existed that it would have come out.

497
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: Is that fair?

498
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think that one of the defenses that President

499
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 5: Trump has taken in response to the speculation of connections

500
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 5: to Epstein beyond what he's acknowledged, was if the Democratic

501
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 5: Party had information linking the president in greater detail to Epstein,

502
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 5: it would have been released during the last election or

503
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 5: during his first term as president. That's a pretty compelling

504
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 5: argument because we had like the June surprise, the July surprise,

505
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 5: you know, we always talked about the October surprise, he

506
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 5: got charged in Georgia, Florida, New York. He was getting

507
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 5: slugged from everywhere, and now when he's in we're learning

508
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 5: about this Epstein information that was in the hands of

509
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 5: third parties and investigators for some time. I think of

510
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 5: all of things that the President has said, that was

511
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 5: the most compelling. Doesn't mean there's not damning information, but

512
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 5: that's a pretty strong argument, thought provoking argument, because we

513
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 5: know there were a lot of people who publicly said

514
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 5: I'll do whatever it takes to prevent another term of

515
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 5: President Trump, and they were willing to get information out.

516
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 5: So that to me was pretty pretty compelling. As I said, and.

517
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: By the way, I don't disagree, it is a very

518
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: very fair point. But I also think that also points

519
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: to the larger picture is that everybody has an ace, like, yeah,

520
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: I can't pull the cord because the people before me,

521
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: whether that's the Democrats and the previous you know, every

522
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: version is going on for decades, allegedly, and it seems

523
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: like many on all sides may be involved. So if

524
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: one person says, ugh, I call it, then you know

525
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: the other person pulls their card. It seems like a

526
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: pox on everyone's house.

527
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 6: Listen.

528
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 2: We want to hear from you all, So eight at

529
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: eight to three one Crime. We try to keep this

530
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: away from politics, but there is this breaking information so

531
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: we can't not but we definitely want to hear your

532
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: opinion as well. Hit us up on our socials or

533
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: you can also leave us a talk back on.

534
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: The iHeartRadio app.

535
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: Don't forget we're talking true crime all the time. I'm

536
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: Steph here with Courtney, and we have Jarrett Farantino, a

537
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: veteran trial attorney, back with us to discuss this horrible

538
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: case happening in New Jersey, a quadruple homicide that he's

539
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: going to fill in all the blanks for us. Also

540
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: that infamous case in Canada with the woman who murdered

541
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: with mushrooms. We've gotten so much talkbacks and collins about

542
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: this case, so we're going to unpack that as well.

543
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: And also there's some new developments with Lori Valo da Bell,

544
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: the cult mom.

545
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: She's at it again.

546
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: She is at it again, So more on that later

547
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: as well. And in Brighter News. Just to jump one

548
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: last thing, we have a special guest, Whitney Away, who

549
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: will be joining us today. Courtney and I have a collective.

550
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeahever we say her name. Whitney appeared in our

551
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: documentary The Pike Howne murders, a family massacre on Peacock

552
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: and we are crazy for her and she is our

553
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: hero because we're going to start this new segment of

554
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: six Degrees of a Hero and it starts tonight in

555
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: Whitney is the first link in a chain of six

556
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: degrees Forever, no one more deserving, no one more deserving.

557
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: So we'll get to that later in the show. But Jarrett,

558
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: back to some quadruple homicide.

559
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 4: All right, I want to catch people up because I

560
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: had to catch myself up before the show, and then

561
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 4: we're going to get Jared's brilliance and insight. But jury

562
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 4: selection it was set to begin today for the murder

563
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 4: trial of a guy named Paul Canaro. This has now

564
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 4: been pushed to January. And Paul Canaro he's accused of

565
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 4: murdering his brother Keith, Keith's wife and two children and

566
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 4: then setting fire to their colts Neck, New Jersey mansion.

567
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: This happened back in November of twenty eighteen, so what

568
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 4: prosecutors are claiming is that the killings were financially motivated

569
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 4: and apparently there was a crumbling family business. The defense

570
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 4: is disputing some real key evidence. So a critical this

571
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 4: is important to know, A critical piece of evidence is

572
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 4: a DVR with surveillance footage and this received. Yeah, it

573
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: was taken from Paul Canaro's house. Okay, big problem. The

574
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 4: defense is arguing that was taken without a warrant, and

575
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 4: then the prosecutor's office is appealing to the New Jersey

576
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 4: Supreme Court to allow that footage in and that is

577
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 4: what has pushed this hearing, so that hearing will happen

578
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 4: November fifth, And the case has faced all these multiple

579
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 4: delays with disputes over evidence. Is it admissible?

580
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: Is it not?

581
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 4: What's going on with the DNA the digital materials. So

582
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 4: that's kind of what's happening. But Jared, you've been really

583
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: deep in this case. Tell us the nuanced information we

584
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: all need to know.

585
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 5: Well, it was. First of all, this case from a

586
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 5: true crime standpoint, has everything from the brutality the tragedy.

587
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 5: You have a tube brothers who Keith Canaro was very successful.

588
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 5: He ran a tech company called Square one, multi millionaire

589
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 5: and had his brother Paul along for the ride. Paul

590
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 5: was a minority owner in Square One. They started a

591
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 5: pest control company called EchoStar. Together they were fifty to

592
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 5: fifty partners. Things started to trend downward. Okay, part of

593
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 5: the reason things were trending downward they were losing a

594
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 5: major client in the Square one company. But Paul had

595
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 5: been pilfering from Keith for some time en thefts allegedly

596
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 5: occurred through a trust that Heath had set up for

597
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 5: his family. Basically, he had a multimillion dollar life insurance

598
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 5: policy that in the event of his death, that money

599
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 5: would pour into a trust it would be operated by

600
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 5: Paul for the benefit of his family. Paul was not

601
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 5: paying the premiums on that policy. He instead was taking

602
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 5: those moneies every month and allegedly taking them to himself

603
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 5: and changing the paperwork to reflect as if those moneies

604
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 5: were being paid. He found that out confronted Paul. After

605
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 5: that confrontation, there was the killings, and the killings were brutal.

606
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 5: You have an uncle accused of going to his brother's mansion,

607
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: duting his brother in the law on the lawn, killing

608
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 5: his sister in law and their eleven year old son

609
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 5: and eight year old daughter. His nieces and nephews, dabbing

610
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 5: them to death, and then going back to his own house,

611
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 5: starting a fire, and then making it look like someone

612
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 5: was targeting the Canaros. That's what you have here in

613
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 5: their lives. I mean, that's and it happened in November

614
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 5: of twenty eighteen, and we still aren't at trial yet.

615
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 5: He was charged in twenty nineteen. But this case, and

616
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 5: there's a lot of nuanced evidentiary matters that have happened

617
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 5: pre trial and again today being no different. There's a

618
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 5: big fight over the DVR that came from Paul's house.

619
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Stephanie, I was going to ask about the dvr.

620
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 2: So what is the core of that fight over the DVR?

621
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: Because I know that's a quintessential piece.

622
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 3: Of this case.

623
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 5: Okay, So they did not use they did not have

624
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 5: an investigators did not have a warrant when they seized

625
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 5: the DVR. And you may say, to yourself, why are

626
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 5: they stupid? Why would they not have a warrant to

627
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 5: get Paul's DVR? His house was on fire. They're saying,

628
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 5: we have exigent circumstances, which is an exception to the

629
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 5: warrant requirement. They're saying the house was on fire. There's

630
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 5: a gas can near the garage there. I saw the

631
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 5: arsenal examiner testify to that we needed to go in

632
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 5: and get it the hell out of there. We didn't

633
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 5: have time to write up a five page warrant, go

634
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 5: to a judge and get it signed. So the judge

635
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 5: Lemieux has said, no, you should have got a warrant.

636
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 5: The fire wasn't anywhere near the garage. That's the decision

637
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 5: they're appealing.

638
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 4: What So, just to understand, make sure I absolutely understand this.

639
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 4: So you're talking about when the fire is literally blazing,

640
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 4: that this decision was made to gather property or protect property,

641
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 4: and that's an issue.

642
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 5: Well, the thinking is, not only is the fire risked,

643
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 5: the water you're dousing the house with could damage the

644
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 5: DVR too. So but here's the thing. Hall's fire was

645
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 5: nowhere near as severe as Keith's fire. Keith's fire smolder

646
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 5: for hours and the mansion was fully involved. Hall's fire

647
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 5: was contained to an upstairs bedroom and part of the attic.

648
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 5: It was not as involved. And the judge, the judge

649
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 5: is basically saying, fire, you're here, exigen circumstance does not

650
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 5: get you in that garage to me. I mean, I'm

651
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 5: no fire expert. If a fire anywhere in that structure

652
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 5: doesn't get you there, I don't know what does.

653
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: That's insane. And again this is also like a technicality.

654
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 2: I know, the warrant and having that is so very

655
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 2: important our constitution. You know, these are basics. But that's

656
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 2: a real extreme circumstance. So it's amazing to me that's

657
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 2: causing such a delay. So this happened in twenty eighteen,

658
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: where at twenty twenty five, I mean, that's a very

659
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: long time for this to be ticking along, and it.

660
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 5: Doesn't look like it's happening in twenty It doesn't look

661
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 5: like it's happening in twenty five now. So I'm going

662
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 5: to tell you if I was at that scene, I

663
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 5: probably would have made that call, like get the DVR

664
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 5: out of there.

665
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: Of course, you know I would have too, I absolutely

666
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 2: would have. Also, the idea that an uncle could actually

667
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: stab to death his well obviously his mother and his

668
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: sister alert but allegedly allegedly allegedly these children is also

669
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: a next level thought.

670
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 3: What is the defense saying? So he's saying, was it me?

671
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 5: Well, at the defense right now, they're fighting them at

672
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 5: every pass on the pieces of evidence, their theory is

673
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 5: likely going to be somebody who's targeted. This third party

674
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 5: was clearly targeting the Canaros at that time, so feeding

675
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 5: into the theory that Paul tried to create. And on

676
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 5: those DVDs, I think it's worth noting they're claiming it

677
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 5: shows Paul leading the residents in a time that coincides

678
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 5: when they believe Keith was killed, and sure enough returning

679
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 5: just in time to start his fire. So it's hard,

680
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 5: you know, obviously it's an important piece of evidence, but

681
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 5: having some familiarity with this case, there's other ways to

682
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 5: backdoor that evidence.

683
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 4: And oh wow, and Jared, this was Was this really

684
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 4: over the amount of about seventy five thousand dollars that

685
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 4: had been in bezzls?

686
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 5: No, I think yes, that would be that would be

687
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 5: the amount that was taken from the policy. What it

688
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 5: was over was the gravy train was about to come

689
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 5: to an end for Paul. His lifestyle was about to

690
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 5: come to a halt. He was not and this isn't

691
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 5: a judgment on the guy. Look, very few people are

692
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 5: as successful as Keith Canaro was. Okay, but he was

693
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 5: looking at the businesses were about. The lifestyle was going

694
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 5: to come to an end. He had an extramarital affair

695
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 5: going on. He was financing his girlfriend's lifestyle, so he

696
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 5: was trying to cover up these steps, having financial problems

697
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 5: of his own and staring down the barrel of a

698
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 5: life of financial insecurity and not the lavish lifestyle he'd

699
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 5: been living. So that's what they're saying created the impetus

700
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 5: for the crimes. Got it.

701
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 4: I actually have one more question and if anyone else

702
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 4: has a question for Prosecutor Jarrett Farentino on this quadruple

703
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 4: homicide and all of the intricacies that are happening with

704
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 4: evidentiary issues with trial call us now eight at eight

705
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 4: through on crime, or if you want to chime in

706
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 4: on any thoughts of this Epstein disaster that we were

707
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,959
Speaker 4: talking about earlier in the show, call in for that too.

708
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 4: So my question for you, Jared is what is what's

709
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 4: the DNA? Is there confusion over that as in terms

710
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 4: of evidence?

711
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 5: My understanding and there's still a lot of this that's

712
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 5: kind of under wraps that there was DNA from Sophia

713
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 5: in Paul's vehicle and she was the little girl, his niece.

714
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 5: I don't know one. Two of the major issues that

715
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 5: have come out was the fight over the DBR and

716
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 5: then this prior bad act evidence that Judge Lamberu wrote

717
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 5: an extensive opinion on that DNA wasn't a part of

718
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 5: so I have I'm not familiar with the DNA component,

719
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 5: but allegedly that's the issue was whether or not I

720
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 5: believe it was Sophia's was found in Paul's vehicle.

721
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,959
Speaker 3: What a sicko if this is true.

722
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 2: Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, and again he is claiming innocence right

723
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: that he had nothing to do with this, and he

724
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 2: is agreed with uncle and brother and missus, his family dearly.

725
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 5: Well. Ironically, that very night, Paul was confronted by Keith

726
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 5: on the phone, and Keith's surveillance system picked up that

727
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 5: phone call where Paul is being accused by Keith is

728
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 5: literally saying to him Canada Life Insurance is saying the benefits,

729
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 5: the premiums weren't paid. They haven't been paid in months,

730
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 5: and Jennifer is in the background saying stop bising. All

731
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 5: the gig is up. So at that point and that

732
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 5: is picked up audio only on Keith's internal system and

733
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 5: this case has everything like that's why it's taking so

734
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 5: long to get to trial.

735
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 4: Wow, So that's kind of amazing that I don't know,

736
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 4: there's a little like Shakespearean irony there that it was

737
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 4: on Keith the murdered brothers end that this evidence was collected.

738
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 3: Boy.

739
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 5: So it's also had thermal imaging equipment too, so we

740
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 5: could see at night and he went there at night?

741
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: What he had? Thermal imaging equipment? Who has that? Why

742
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 2: do people have that? I guess it's for hunting obviously, right,

743
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: is the.

744
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 5: Why he had I can tell you why I think

745
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 5: he had it? Ideo Yeah, why.

746
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: Did he have it that night?

747
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 2: Because he was going to go, Oh he was scouting

748
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: the location.

749
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

750
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 4: By the way, nothing scares me in this life more

751
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 4: than that night vision and I literally saw silence of

752
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 4: the lambs I have never recovered. However, twenty five years later,

753
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 4: if I'm walking down a dark hallway, I've.

754
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 3: You know, no, there's someone coming with me.

755
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 4: So there was planning involved in this obviously, if you

756
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 4: have to do arson for two fires and oh my gosh.

757
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 3: So what happens next?

758
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: So Canara one of them is now waiting for trial?

759
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: I assume behind bars not on bail, and that trial

760
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: will happen, and it is the town kind of amped

761
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,760
Speaker 2: about this case. Is there support for the Canaro family?

762
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 5: Well, certainly, and the town of Koltzneck, New Jersey has

763
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 5: been impacted by this. You know, the defense has actually

764
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 5: made a request for a change of venue because of

765
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 5: the amount of press that's got. Honestly, though, as a

766
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 5: person who's in this true crime world and along with

767
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 5: all of you, I'm surprised this case has not garnered

768
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 5: more attention because of the tragedy, because of the nature.

769
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 5: I mean, you look at the lavish lives that our

770
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 5: victims had lived. You know, this case is it's not

771
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 5: your run of the milk case. I mean, this is

772
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 5: something that it has all the makings of something that

773
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 5: I'm not sure is that would be attractive to the

774
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 5: true crime world. And it's just something I kind of

775
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 5: stumbled upon, you know, I'm on the East Coast and

776
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 5: was following this case and just and just blown away

777
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 5: by it.

778
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 4: It is interesting because, like I said before the show,

779
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 4: I had to really brush up. It was not something

780
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 4: that was in the forefront of my mind at all.

781
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 4: And also, if I understanding the fire that he set

782
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 4: at his own home. Paul's wife and daughters were there

783
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 4: and ultimately escaped unharmed.

784
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: They almost didn't, right, so he almost harmed his own family.

785
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 5: Well, it seems like that was more of a staged

786
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 5: attempt at a fire. He'd gotten them out. They were

787
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 5: in one of the porsches of one of the three

788
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 5: porsches at the house. Three porchsh oh yeah, So they

789
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 5: were found in one of those vehicles, safe and unharmed

790
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 5: from that fire. And that fire burned quickly where Teith's

791
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 5: fire wasn't discovered, so they believe it was lit around

792
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,919
Speaker 5: three forty five am or so. It wasn't discovered until

793
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 5: the mansion was fully involved around noon. So Paul's fire

794
00:43:59,160 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 5: was found first.

795
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 3: Wow, oh man, that's wild.

796
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 4: I'm not having well, man, more porsches, more problems.

797
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 3: That sounds like in this case, how do you have

798
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 3: three porsches?

799
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: But side note too, and also, Jared, you're gonna stick

800
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 2: with us one more time please so we can talk

801
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: a little bit about Idaho In case you guys don't know.

802
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: Jarrett also appears in our documentary on Peacock the Idaho

803
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: student Murders and You're so good in it. And also

804
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 2: the podcast out now that Courtney of course narrates the

805
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: Idaho Massacre of season three on iHeart, so we'll do

806
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 2: a little unpacking of that next. This is True Crime Tonight.

807
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. Welcome back to

808
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all

809
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong. Our

810
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: Body move In is gone for the e She'll be

811
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: out this week, so we are trying to piece.

812
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: It together without her. We love you, Body, We miss you.

813
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: Jarrett Farentino, the greatest trial attorney of all time. He

814
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: also appeared on many of our projects right now, so

815
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: the Idaho Student Murders, which is currently streaming on Peacock

816
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 2: by the way, number one, again and again and again.

817
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 2: So congrats to you, Jarrett, you really do such an

818
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: important job on that. And then additionally the Idaho Massacre

819
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: season three podcast, which you can catch on iHeart or

820
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Jarrett is also excellent on

821
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: as well. And that sort of follows all of these

822
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 2: new developments that have happened since since his conviction, frankly,

823
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: and since Brian Coberger pled guilty and is now looking

824
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: for life behind bars. Since then, now law enforcement has

825
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: shared a lot of new information that only really would

826
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 2: have come out in trial. So the podcast really covers

827
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: all of this new detail and it's happening real time.

828
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 2: Every day we wake up and there's a whole new

829
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: set of circumstances to report on and unpack. So we've

830
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 2: gotten so many questions and talkbacks and calls about legal

831
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 2: things surrounding this this really important case. Again, our hearts

832
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 2: go out to the victims' families as always, and let's

833
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: go to a talk back.

834
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 9: Now, Hey, ladies, my remark tonight is on Bronkohlberger. I

835
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 9: know that he is likely going to file for an appeal,

836
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 9: but I think if you plead guilty to a crime,

837
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 9: especially murder attainus as his was, you shouldn't you shouldn't

838
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 9: get a chance for an appeal.

839
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on that, Jarrett? Jarrett, you're up.

840
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I'm going to play that introduction

841
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 5: that you gave me for my law partners and my wife.

842
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 5: Thank you for your.

843
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 10: Yes.

844
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 5: So that question, when it comes to Brian Colberger, here's

845
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 5: the answer. In most cases, a person that leads guilty

846
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 5: has a very limited right to appeal. There's certain issue

847
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 5: they can take with they're guilty plea. But Brian Colberger,

848
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 5: if you remember, waived his right to appeal in his

849
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 5: guilty please. So not only did he say I'm guilty,

850
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 5: he also says I'm not going to file an appeal

851
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 5: now in Pennsylvania where I've taken please in death penalty

852
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 5: type cases and there was a waiver of appeal on one,

853
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 5: right to appeal really survives the incompetence of your defense team.

854
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 5: A defendant can still say his attorneys were incompetent. Now,

855
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 5: that doesn't mean Colberger is going to say that. But

856
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 5: if you remember when the judge first when Judge Hippler

857
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 5: first took Colberger's appeal, before he talked to Colberger, he

858
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 5: talked to Colberger's defense team. He wanted to know they

859
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 5: review the evidence. They feel like they filed everything they

860
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 5: needed to file. They've had enough time to prepare and

861
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 5: review the discovery. Because he's protecting the record to insure

862
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 5: down the road, if Coburger comes with that appeal, they're

863
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 5: going to be able to make light work of it.

864
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 2: Interesting, go ahead, now you go, I think you're going

865
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 2: to say the same thing.

866
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 4: Oh well, I don't know what I was going to say,

867
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 4: was I found Judge Hipler to be extraordinary, Jared, I

868
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 4: know you would have had over your career so many

869
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 4: interactions like I don't know, how do you feel like?

870
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 4: I just think he was so measured and thoughtful and

871
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 4: even what was your take on him?

872
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 5: Well, between he and judge judge, if you remember the

873
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 5: initial judge who presided over the case, right, he painstakingly

874
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 5: went over everything. You could see it like in his

875
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 5: he was anguishing over the change of venue, he was

876
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 5: anguishing over a request to continue the trial. Hippler was

877
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 5: much more straightforward, He didn't mince words, he was tougher.

878
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 5: He came across as much more of a harsh judge.

879
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 5: You know, it's a style. I think that judge Judge

880
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 5: made some fine rulings in the case early on, and

881
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 5: Hiitpler was spot on. I think I agreed with ninety

882
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 5: nine point nine percent of what Hitler did and how

883
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 5: he conducted these proceedings. He never let it get away

884
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 5: from him. You know, he maintained order in that courtroom.

885
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 5: And when you have a case with all that going on,

886
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 5: I mean, has there anything has there been anything like

887
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 5: that case in twenty years. I mean, it's just wild.

888
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 3: No, it's extraordinary.

889
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: But you know, I think it's a fair point that

890
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: our talkback brings up about the idea of an appeal.

891
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: I mean, we are We're seeing this even in a

892
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 2: case that we covered very fully in Pie County, where

893
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: you know, there has been you know, people that were

894
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: given deals in exchange for testimony, and we're had life

895
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: sentences taken off the table, and that seems to be changing.

896
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: So there are certain examples, and it maybe it varies

897
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 2: from state to state where someone who has just you know,

898
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: declined their rights to an appeal somehow is coming back

899
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 2: for an appeal. I don't even know how that's possible.

900
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: So we feel confident.

901
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: It's a hard road, right, It's a hard road.

902
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 5: You would have to show some real defect in the system.

903
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 5: And Colberger, like I said, without I don't have the

904
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 5: familiarity with the Pike County murders as far as what

905
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 5: they waived. But looking at what Colberger did and the

906
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 5: extensive colloquy that Judge Hipler had with him, he's going

907
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 5: to have a tough time file and appeal down the road.

908
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 5: Saying his team was ineffective, and I think, quite honestly,

909
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 5: they were effective. You know, we've had this conversation all

910
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 5: of us about what efforts they took and some beyond.

911
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 5: Some people question the ethics of saying it was a

912
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 5: third party. A week later they're coming in saying, hey,

913
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 5: Brian did it exactly?

914
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 3: No, I exactly. I think that's a fair point. By

915
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 3: the way, Jared, I.

916
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 4: Want to pinky swear you that you have to come

917
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 4: back and Stephanie and I will lay out piped in

918
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 4: because even I literally felt my blood pressure go up

919
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 4: Stephanie when you mentioned the reversal of the plea deal,

920
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 4: and I.

921
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 3: Really could use help.

922
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 4: My voice is cracking. It is so insane to me.

923
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 4: So actually i'd love your legal purview. That's for another day.

924
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 4: On this day, we're going to our next coburger talkback.

925
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 11: Hey, Stiff and Body, this is Ken Adams from New York.

926
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 11: Quick questions, is there a limit to how many times

927
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 11: BK can appeal? And when do you expect him to do?

928
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 5: So?

929
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 11: Love the show. Can't wait to hear the response, You

930
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 11: ladies have a great night.

931
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: Very similar sentiment to what we were just talking about,

932
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 2: right so I guess the sense into that, Jared, not

933
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: to put words in your mouth, but just to see

934
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 2: if we're learning along with you so well that it

935
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 2: is unlikely that an appeal will happen.

936
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 5: If it is unlikely unless he challenges the efficacy of

937
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 5: his attorneys, and that really that's really his only avenue.

938
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 5: Brian Colberger is going to be litigating, but it's going

939
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 5: to be about the food in the jail, the noise

940
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 5: that he's hearing, his conditions, you know, that's what he's

941
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 5: going to be. That's the fight he's going to be having.

942
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 5: In all likelihood.

943
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 2: Have you had a chance to see any of the

944
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: recently released photographs of him or even Courtney. We haven't

945
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: even discussed the selfies of him in the mirror that

946
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: are recently been released that are just ridiculous. And my

947
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: hope is that he's also hearing the chatter and the

948
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: giggles about him posing in his genes in the mirror.

949
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 2: Have you seen any of these most recent photos of

950
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: his apartment?

951
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 5: I had, Well, let me tell you that apartment looks

952
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 5: exactly like I thought it was.

953
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 3: Yes, we said this seal.

954
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 5: Ikea here's what I thought that A sweeper a sad

955
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 5: ikea piece of furniture, you know, a little bit of haphazard,

956
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 5: the book, the refrigerator, essentially in a jail cell himself.

957
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 5: I mean that he was living his life.

958
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: It is so true. It is exactly what we said

959
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: when we saw those photos. It was like, Yep, I

960
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: guess that one hundred percent tracks. If I were to

961
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: make up a pretend apartment for Brian Coburger, how we

962
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: would envision it. It tracks and is so weird. It's

963
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: just also equally weird. And yeah, he's forever vacuuming. This guy,

964
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: always vacuuming and cleaning his vacuum and cleaning his vacuum.

965
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 4: Jared, we maybe spoke for twenty minutes between a stack

966
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 4: of towels, but the bottom of his vacuum not a

967
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 4: speck of anything. And yet the canister was full, So

968
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 4: he's just sitting there cleaning the bottom.

969
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 2: Of the sack.

970
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 5: He probably he probably has more than a touch of OCD.

971
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 5: I think that there's there's no doubt, you know, yeah,

972
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 5: he has compulsions, he has He's got a cocktail of

973
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,439
Speaker 5: issues going on in Coburger. But clearly, you know there's

974
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 5: something there with OCD, as well, hand washing and those

975
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 5: things too, So he's although there were parts of the

976
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 5: apartment that were haphazard and not quite organized, like the

977
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 5: way the books were thrown and things like that.

978
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 4: Right now, it's a weird juxtaposition. I actually have a

979
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 4: quick click question before we go to a DM. But, Jared,

980
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 4: if you do have complaints, if I am a prisoner,

981
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 4: or in this case b K is a prisoner, he

982
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 4: has complaints, do you need counsel to help you file

983
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 4: those complaints or is there a process that you're aware of.

984
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 5: Well, many prisoners become what we call jailhouse lawyers, so

985
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 5: they become very good at filing things on their own.

986
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 5: So you're not entitled to counsel at that point. I've

987
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 5: seen inmates write compelling federal cases though they have a

988
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 5: lot of time and ability, so the right to council

989
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 5: doesn't attach to that kind of acclaim. Now, you could

990
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 5: have people that help inmates that come into the prison,

991
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 5: but we're talking about the complaints he's filing now are

992
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 5: more administrative. He's complaining about noise, his play. All of

993
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 5: those things are first handled within the institution itself, So

994
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 5: he fills out a complaint for him, they sit on

995
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 5: it for the maximum amount of the time and they

996
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 5: try to address it, so your right to council doesn't

997
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 5: necessarily attach. He wouldn't have an attorney for that.

998
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you for that.

999
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 4: Just with some odd burning curiosity and listen if you

1000
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 4: have any burning legal curiosities, take advantage of Jarrett Farentino

1001
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 4: joining us tonight on True Crime Tonight and ask your question.

1002
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 4: So we had a listener write in and this was

1003
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 4: from Jade who lives in North Carolina. Hello Jade, and

1004
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 4: thank you. It begins with compliments, but you know loves

1005
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 4: this show. Thank you again. Jade asks why the defense

1006
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 4: didn't try to make a mental impairment approach with Bka

1007
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 4: and she qualifies that I am not advocating for him

1008
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 4: in any way, but considering the evidence that has come

1009
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 4: out and shown a little bit of his psychopathy, I'm

1010
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 4: surprised they didn't at least attempt this route or do

1011
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 4: you think the evidence against him was too overwhelming?

1012
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 5: Well, here's why, because they tried in the sense that

1013
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 5: they had him evaluated for the mitigation phase of the

1014
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 5: death penalty. Okay, he's probably had multiple psychiatrists and psychologists

1015
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 5: evaluate him. Okay, you cannot make a case for insanity

1016
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 5: if a person is not insane. His mental health was

1017
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 5: an issue. His mental health was going to find its

1018
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 5: way into the courtroom. They were going to use his

1019
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 5: autistic diagnosis to say, that's why he obsessively cleans his

1020
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 5: car and runs the sweeper and had nothing to do

1021
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 5: with the fact that he killed four beautiful people and

1022
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 5: was covering up the evidence. He's just running the sleeper

1023
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 5: in his car. So they were going to use mental

1024
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 5: health as a way to defend him. He did not

1025
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 5: rise to the level. I look at a guy like Koberger,

1026
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 5: I say he's crazy, but he's not insane, okay, exactly.

1027
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 5: So he's got things that you He's got things going

1028
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 5: on you can't apply logic to. But they're the kinds

1029
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 5: of things that he still understands. If I stick a

1030
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 5: knife in somebody, they die. I'm not hearing voices. I'm

1031
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 5: not compelled by some force. I know the law, I

1032
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 5: know what I did was wrong. I could participate in

1033
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 5: my defense. Therefore, I don't really get a defense of

1034
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 5: mental infirmity to get me off here. That's basically the difference, which.

1035
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: Is a really important difference. I hadn't really thought of

1036
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 2: it that way. Yeah, they brought in the autism. They

1037
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: brought in some of these other diagnoses that he has

1038
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 2: had throughout the years, and that kind of annoyed me

1039
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 2: also because again, you know, that's annoying for the autistic

1040
00:57:55,240 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: community that just because he's either having some shades of autism,

1041
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: that doesn't give him permission to murder for amazing human beings.

1042
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, this one gets under our skin so much.

1043
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 5: But it's clear he has something going on. And again,

1044
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 5: you know, I don't know is it a combination of

1045
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 5: a lot of different You look at him, you could

1046
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 5: see it. There's just no emotion there. There's there's something

1047
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 5: is he has written in those posts. He's trying to

1048
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,479
Speaker 5: figure out what's wrong with him. You know, he says,

1049
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 5: I have no emotion for my father. This guy loves

1050
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 5: me like I'm like a He described himself, although he

1051
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 5: never admitted they were him as like a sack of meat,

1052
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 5: like that's how he saw himself. So something's going on.

1053
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 3: Is there anything you know?

1054
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: And I know I only have two minutes left, but

1055
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 2: is there anything in this case that's outstanding in your

1056
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 2: head that you wish you had? The final answer on

1057
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 2: or do you feel satiated now that we have all

1058
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: of this new information?

1059
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 5: You know, I guess it's the I guess like everyone else,

1060
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 5: I want to know what led him to those four? Yes,

1061
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 5: you know that, that's definitely something. But other than that,

1062
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 5: you know, so much has been answered, especially since the

1063
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 5: plea y.

1064
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 6: You know?

1065
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 5: And why those four really? You know? Other than that,

1066
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 5: I really wouldn't want to know anything that Brian Colberger

1067
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 5: has to say.

1068
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're here, I think we lately agree.

1069
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1070
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 3: Fair.

1071
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 4: So, as Stephanie had mentioned earlier, you really should be

1072
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 4: listening to season three of The Idaho Massacre, if you know,

1073
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 4: for nothing else than Jarrett Farentino's shining legal additions to it.

1074
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 4: And it is just really well produced by Katie's Studios,

1075
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 4: run by Stephanie Leidecker. Tonight, it's a very like congratulatory night.

1076
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 4: It feels very warm and happy in here, and that's

1077
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 4: probably because you're here.

1078
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 3: Jarrett, Thank you so much. Oh no modulated.

1079
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,959
Speaker 4: When you join us and anyone out there, you can

1080
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 4: and should find more of Jared's amazing work as a

1081
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 4: legal expert. He is on YouTube at Jarrett Farentino and

1082
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 4: Instagram at Jarrett Farentino and coming up, we will be

1083
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 4: joined by Whitney Galloway and Stephanie and I met her

1084
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 4: during our work on the Piked and Massacre multiple projects.

1085
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 4: She's incredible, she is a literal hero. Keep it here

1086
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight, We're talking true crime all the time.

1087
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 3: Bye jareded Bye Jared.

1088
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1089
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Big thanks again to Jarrett

1090
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 2: Farentino for joining us and listen. If you've missed any

1091
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 2: of the shows so far, you could always pick it

1092
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 2: up right after as a podcast. And again jump in

1093
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 2: join the conversation. Eight eight eight three one Crime. I'm

1094
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 2: Steph here with Courtney Armstrong. As always, listen, we're trying

1095
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 2: to do something a little positive, right, So we're going

1096
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 2: to start something tonight and this is our banner event,

1097
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 2: actually our six Degrees of a Hero. So I've always

1098
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 2: been a little obsessed, as Courtney knows, We've tried to

1099
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: do a million TV shows about the idea of six

1100
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 2: degrees of separation. Oh my god, it's just like a

1101
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 2: reoccurring thing that I always every six months bring up

1102
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 2: and if you're not familiar, with what like six degrees

1103
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 2: of separation means you know, we all know six degrees

1104
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 2: of Kevin Bacon, right, everybody can play that game at

1105
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 2: a bar. Come on, Okay, Sam in the control room

1106
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 2: is apparently a huge fan.

1107
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 3: Everybody just popped up. But we know.

1108
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 2: The idea is that you know, in this entire world,

1109
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 2: the theory is we are all connected via just six people,

1110
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: so that you know, whether that's colleagues or friends, family acquaintances,

1111
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: you know, somebody you meet, you know in an elevator

1112
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 2: is somehow connected through six people. And I love that

1113
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 2: because it sort of speaks to how we're all connected obviously,

1114
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 2: and it feels appropriate here because the True Crime audience

1115
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: where community the True Crime Tonight crew, and we are

1116
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: all connected and we talk about such dark stuff that

1117
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 2: we want to just do a little bit of a

1118
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 2: highlight for some beautiful stuff and some heroes. So the

1119
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 2: longest explanation for what this is, I promise it will stop.

1120
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: So here's what we're gonna do each week. We're going

1121
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: to start Tonight with Whitney Galloway, who we talked about

1122
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 2: a couple weeks ago. Also she happens three our hero

1123
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 2: Courtney and mine. We're collected on this, and we're gonna

1124
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 2: have Whitney Galloway on to explain to her why, and

1125
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 2: then she's gonna choose her hero. And then next week

1126
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 2: her hero is gonna come on and then choose their hero.

1127
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 2: And we're going to do this every week. You see

1128
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 2: what I'm.

1129
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 3: Saying here The hero chain continues. Yes, it's like a

1130
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 3: web of Morrows.

1131
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 2: Yes, next to the True Crime Tonight exactly, So, Whitney Galloway,

1132
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 2: without further ado, welcome to True Crime Tonight.

1133
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 3: We're so happy you're here.

1134
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 7: Thank you.

1135
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 10: I'm super happy and excited to be here.

1136
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 2: First of all, Whitney, we have you up very very late,

1137
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 2: so we know that, so thank you for hanging with us.

1138
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: For anyone who doesn't know, Whitney appeared on our documentary

1139
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 2: on Peacock Is where it's streaming the Pie County Murders,

1140
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 2: a family massacre. Whitney Galloway, this is not why she's

1141
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 2: our hero, but just for context, she lost her best friend,

1142
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 2: Hannah Gilly, who was one of the eight victims in

1143
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen massacre in Pike County. We've done a

1144
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 2: podcast about it, we did a documentary about it. Whitney

1145
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 2: starts the documentary and is just heart melting and heart wrenching.

1146
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 2: And Courtney and I met Whitney years ago in Pie County.

1147
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 2: I forget why we were there, but we were there.

1148
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 2: We called Whitney and Whitney was like, who are these

1149
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 2: who are these people calling me? I want to like

1150
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 2: meet up with me and talk about something terrible. So

1151
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 2: we end up meeting Whitney. Whitney on the swing. She

1152
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 2: was on this beautiful swing in her front lawn, and

1153
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: I have to say it was love at first sight

1154
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:23,919
Speaker 2: for me, Like we all hardly bonded, and long story short,

1155
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 2: and then we'll let Whitney you speak for herself. But

1156
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 2: why she's a hero to us is, you know, listen,

1157
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 2: she's someone who has experienced tragedy as many listening have

1158
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 2: and somehow has picked herself up and despite a broken

1159
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 2: heart losing her best friend in one of these this is,

1160
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: by the way, this was Ohio's largest crime investigation. Like

1161
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 2: this was a serious, serious, hideous crime and having to

1162
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: live through that. She has since now turned that mess

1163
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 2: into what will be her message and has gone to

1164
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 2: school and it's getting her psychology degree and is going

1165
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 2: to be an advocate and has just kind of touched

1166
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,479
Speaker 2: all our hearts so much.

1167
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 4: And yeah, we want to give you a chance with

1168
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 4: me to say, I guess, really, whatever is whatever's on

1169
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 4: your mind and even how you did? How did you

1170
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 4: find such resiliency to go through and grow through everything

1171
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 4: you went to into moving forward with all of what

1172
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 4: you're doing. Like what motivates you to your level of greatness?

1173
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 3: I guess is the question?

1174
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 10: Well, honestly, it took me a long time. It took

1175
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 10: me like a few years to work through the grief,

1176
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 10: through you know, PTSD, all my anxieties. Really, I didn't

1177
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 10: realize how much like the murders affected me until that

1178
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 10: documentary we did, and hearing the things like that I

1179
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 10: would do, like from my husband, you know, how I

1180
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 10: would check locks, how I would stop if I seen

1181
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 10: somebody that looked like Dake. How you know, I didn't

1182
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 10: how big my my own problems were, you know, and

1183
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 10: I didn't want to continue my life like that. I

1184
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 10: wanted to At that point, I knew I needed to

1185
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 10: find help, so I started with you know, I would

1186
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 10: I started to try to find a therapist, and being

1187
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 10: put on a weight list seemed like like just horrendous, like,

1188
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 10: oh my gosh. You know, there's people who have mental

1189
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 10: health every day and you're put on a weight list

1190
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 10: because it's such in high demand. So that kind of

1191
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 10: pushed me into going into school so I can be

1192
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 10: there for people and help them through their traumas and

1193
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 10: things like that.

1194
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 9: You know.

1195
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 2: She was also on our podcast, The I Had Ahome

1196
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 2: Massacre talking about just grief.

1197
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 8: Right.

1198
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: You know, we hear so much about how love connects us,

1199
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 2: but you know, grief and love are really close together,

1200
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 2: and I think grief is one of those things that

1201
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 2: really connects us as well. And I think you speak

1202
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 2: to that so eloquently because sometimes you're when you're in it,

1203
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 2: When you're in when you're in a state of grief,

1204
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 2: you feel isolated and alone, and it's the time that

1205
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: you really want to talk to nobody. Sometimes you feel

1206
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 2: you feel afraid to talk to people, or you just

1207
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 2: don't feel like people understand you, and you know, having

1208
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,439
Speaker 2: you as someone that is kind of the shining light

1209
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 2: of how that's not the case. We don't heal alone,

1210
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 2: and sharing stories and hearing other people's stories can be

1211
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 2: so healing and kind of connects us in a really

1212
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 2: extraordinary way, I will say her on the documentary, the

1213
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 2: amount of feedback that was received about Whitney specifically about

1214
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 2: just how she really is just a heart melter, and

1215
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 2: that is a bit of a calling, right And I

1216
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 2: have no doubt that you're the one Whitney that's going

1217
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 2: to be the the you know, the shoulder for many

1218
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 2: to cry on.

1219
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, you know, after the I had a lot of

1220
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 10: people reach out to me, like onto my personal Facebook,

1221
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,919
Speaker 10: which I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm

1222
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 10: just like from a small town in Ohio and all

1223
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,439
Speaker 10: these people from all over the world are reaching out

1224
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 10: to me. And I was like, in a way, it

1225
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 10: seems weird to say, it made me feel good to

1226
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 10: have these people reach out to me, and you know,

1227
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 10: some of them share stories with me that, you know,

1228
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 10: talk to me about their own things. We went back

1229
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 10: and forth, and that was another reason I wanted to

1230
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 10: get into getting my degree in psychology, because I mean,

1231
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 10: people from around the world are talking to me now,

1232
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 10: you know, like, yeah, there's just there's so much that

1233
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 10: happens when you, like you said, the grief and the

1234
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 10: love and stuff. So and it's crazy to see how

1235
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 10: many people actually do deal with it, and then they

1236
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 10: don't know what direction to go with like once it happened.

1237
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 3: So true, everybody deals with sadness and grief. No one's immune.

1238
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 2: And yet when you're in that pocket, it's like you

1239
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 2: think you're all alone.

1240
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 10: And yeah, I mean I was only nineteen when it happened,

1241
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 10: and I didn't know. I didn't know about counseling. Really,

1242
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 10: I didn't know really what to do. So doing alone

1243
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 10: at that was hard.

1244
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, but I think that's part.

1245
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 4: I mean, it's there's so many fastests as to why

1246
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 4: you are our collective hero, and honestly, the realizing you

1247
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 4: know from that dark place, which you know many, if

1248
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 4: not all of us have been in dark places not comparable,

1249
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 4: but to find the wherewithal the resiliency to say, okay,

1250
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 4: I actually a first step I do need help to

1251
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 4: get out of it. That in itself is really inspiring,

1252
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 4: because the first step of anything is so hard. Is

1253
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 4: there any if you could give advice? Would you give

1254
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 4: any of advice about that of recognizing.

1255
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:00,879
Speaker 2: That or yeah?

1256
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 10: So, I mean I've even like now I see people

1257
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 10: and like I'm very open. Now I'll say, you know, oh,

1258
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 10: I go to counseling or you know, I have some

1259
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 10: mental health things that I'm working through, and I think

1260
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:15,480
Speaker 10: just being able to be open and I guess vulnerable

1261
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 10: with that also helps people because it's like they see

1262
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 10: somebody else talking about it. Okay, maybe it's not as

1263
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 10: bad as it I'm thinking, you know, does that make sense?

1264
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 10: Because I think some people think mental health means you're

1265
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,719
Speaker 10: weak or you go to a counselor oh you're week

1266
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 10: or oh you can't handle real life. No it's not

1267
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,799
Speaker 10: I can't handle it. I just I need a little guidance.

1268
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 10: And I think anybody needs it, you know, I think

1269
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,679
Speaker 10: everybody needs a little bit of guidance. I mean life

1270
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 10: is hard, and especially when you throw in something so

1271
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 10: traumatic and so hard and that can really mess with you.

1272
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 8: You.

1273
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 10: I think it's a good thing to go and get

1274
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 10: that help.

1275
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 2: And now you're going to be the helper, you know.

1276
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 2: So we've all been like always talking about the same

1277
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 2: idea which we're going to do, which is to find

1278
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 2: a place. We're going to build a place in Pie

1279
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 2: County called Hannah's House for Hannah Gilly and Hanname wrote

1280
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 2: in where hopefully one day this becomes a place where

1281
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 2: people can can have a shoulder to cry on, or

1282
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 2: just a friend to sit with on a swing like

1283
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 2: that same swing that we met Whitney on. You know again,

1284
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 2: you are not alone. Anybody who was hearing our voices

1285
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 2: right now, you are not alone.

1286
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 3: You are not It.

1287
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 2: Is not as crazy as it seems to you in

1288
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 2: your heart and in your head. And I think Whitney,

1289
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 2: even just from the day we met to the Whitney

1290
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 2: of today, who's you know, a rock star? It is

1291
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 2: amazing to see like you kind of come into your

1292
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 2: own sense of uh.

1293
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 3: I don't know what the word is.

1294
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 4: I would say like strength through vulnerability. And there is

1295
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 4: such strength through vulnerability and you just really embody that

1296
01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 4: in the best way, and your honesty really evokes it

1297
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 4: in other people. Do you know what I mean by

1298
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:08,600
Speaker 4: sharing parts of yourself that really allows other people to

1299
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 4: share and heal and grow. And it's you, You just

1300
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 4: you simply are a remarkable human.

1301
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 2: Being, period And we talk about you all the time time.

1302
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 2: We say this all the time. So welcome to it Withney.

1303
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 2: So two things you want to ask. One, we want

1304
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 2: to hear something a fun, happy memory of your best

1305
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:32,719
Speaker 2: friend Hannah Gilly, so we can pay her our heart

1306
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 2: and respect. And then we also want to hear from

1307
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 2: you who your hero is so that we can pay

1308
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 2: it forward.

1309
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 10: Okay, our happy memory, which I'm just going to bring

1310
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 10: it up because you know we're talking about the trade

1311
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 10: days at work is coming up this weekend. Yes, And

1312
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 10: a coworker of mine was like, oh, I'm going to

1313
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 10: go to trade days and then and this is me,

1314
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 10: you know, with a little bit of PTSD. Still I

1315
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 10: still work through it. All I thought was, oh my gosh.

1316
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 10: The last time I've been to one, like really been

1317
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 10: to one other than the documentary was with Hannah so

1318
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,799
Speaker 10: and the last one we went to, Frankie was pulling

1319
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 10: her hair out of around his ear. Her hair was

1320
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 10: so long and blonde, like the longest hair ever. She said,

1321
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:22,559
Speaker 10: I need you to drop my hair off, and I

1322
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 10: was like, okay, we'll chop your hair off.

1323
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 2: I don't know you had hair to waist by the way,

1324
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,280
Speaker 2: beautiful blonde hair waist is that accurate?

1325
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 3: So long? So long?

1326
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 10: It is the longest I've ever seen. And he made

1327
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 10: the joke, I'm pulling hair out of my cors I'm

1328
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 10: pulling hair on of everything. He said, I lay on

1329
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 10: it in the middle of the night, she gets up

1330
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 10: and yells at me. He said, so we're cutting it,

1331
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 10: and I in a way, I'm kind of god we

1332
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 10: never got to that point to where we cut it,

1333
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 10: because that's like her trademark is her long blonde hair.

1334
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 6: I love it.

1335
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 3: I love it.

1336
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 2: She did have the most beautiful long blonde hair based

1337
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 2: in the photos that we saw. So then, Whitney, who

1338
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 2: is your hero that we can pay it forward to?

1339
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 10: Honestly, Micro is probably going to be my husband. Yes, yeah,

1340
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 10: he came in and on the rock bottom part of

1341
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 10: everything when it came to going through the trials, going

1342
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 10: through the endless years of trying to figure out who

1343
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 10: did this? You know, and he never once told me

1344
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 10: it's just forget about it. It's done.

1345
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 2: You know.

1346
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 10: He was behind me one. He went with me to

1347
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:36,439
Speaker 10: the trial when yes, they were sentencing Jake, you know,

1348
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 10: all the things. So I really he is my hero.

1349
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 10: He's been there, he's went above and beyond for me,

1350
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 10: and I couldn't ask for a better partner.

1351
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:49,759
Speaker 2: Was so by the way, having seen you guys together,

1352
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 2: that is so appropriate. And we also know that he's

1353
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 2: being deployed, so that means that next week this time.

1354
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 2: Next week we'll have Ryan on and then he'll pay

1355
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 2: it forward to his hero.

1356
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 3: Whitney Galloway.

1357
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 2: We love you, and I hope anybody who's out there

1358
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 2: hearing your voice knows that you are a.

1359
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 3: Phone call away.

1360
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: There is nobody better, and that if anyone's in grief,

1361
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 2: just know that tomorrow gets a little easier and just

1362
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:16,719
Speaker 2: one step at a time.

1363
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 3: And thank you so much.

1364
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 4: And we cannot also wait to speak with Kyle as well. Whitney,

1365
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 4: you are the best, the best, the best. Thank you

1366
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 4: for being our first and number one hero. Yes, so

1367
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 4: keep it here.

1368
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 3: We will.

1369
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 4: Uh that's probably the highlight because what gets better than that.

1370
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 4: But we got a little Lori day Bell to get

1371
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 4: into and a couple of other topics.

1372
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,839
Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight.

1373
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1374
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Big thanks to Whitney Galloway

1375
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 2: for joining us. I say, yay, I cannot believe we're

1376
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 2: in our last segment yet again, So boom, let's go

1377
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 2: straight to a talk back.

1378
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 3: What do you think?

1379
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 5: Court?

1380
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 11: Bring?

1381
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 3: Bring it on Gigi here.

1382
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,759
Speaker 12: I have to tell you, I really hope that Pamela

1383
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 12: and Liam are truly an item. But if you ever

1384
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 12: watched Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper A Star is Born,

1385
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 12: they had everybody convinced that they were madly, deeply in love,

1386
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 12: and they weren't. They're just good actors. So with that

1387
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 12: being said, I still have faith and love and hope

1388
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 12: that Pam and Liam find it.

1389
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 2: I okay, first of all, go ahead, Courtney, because she's

1390
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 2: a hot topic.

1391
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 4: Gg it's the hottest topic. In fact, yes, so bad

1392
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 4: you brought it up. And okay, Pam Anderson, I think

1393
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,520
Speaker 4: she has come out and confirmed it is really.

1394
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 6: I can jump in and just tell you there.

1395
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:02,560
Speaker 13: She recently said she'd like to say to anyone questioning

1396
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 13: if she's faking all of this, it is real. She's

1397
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 13: saying it's authentically driven. She was recently at an appearance

1398
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 13: at a film festival in France and she was actually

1399
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 13: she said, I do not and never will feed into

1400
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 13: pr stunts, so that would be the death death sentence

1401
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 13: for me. She says, this is an authentic relationship, So

1402
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 13: there's that.

1403
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 6: So I believe it.

1404
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. By the way, she was so emphatic

1405
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: about it. I was so relieved about it. We were

1406
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 2: a buzz about it, and we're going.

1407
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:34,639
Speaker 3: To We should have talked about that yesterday. I feel

1408
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 3: like we were talking about that yesterday.

1409
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 2: I know we ran out of time, but yes, it

1410
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 2: has been authenticated by Pamela Anderson herself because listen, she

1411
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 2: was basically like, look, you think I'm going to do

1412
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 2: a pr stunt her background with Tommy Lee and that

1413
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 2: in the in the movie about her, remember that Tommy

1414
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:52,720
Speaker 2: and Lee.

1415
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,720
Speaker 3: Did you watch the movie Tommy did? I wa am?

1416
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 3: She was not happy with it.

1417
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,679
Speaker 2: It was very good, but she did not love that movie.

1418
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 2: She was very anti that movie. Pamela Anderson was very

1419
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,439
Speaker 2: upset about that movie, which I thought was quite good

1420
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 2: and made her very lovable. I mean, I thought the

1421
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:13,280
Speaker 2: actress was so good. Who played her too?

1422
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 3: Do you know how much you said? Did I watch it?

1423
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 5: Okay?

1424
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 4: I got down a rabbit hole so deep it's kind

1425
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 4: of amazing. I'm here now and recovered. But I was

1426
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 4: literally rereading somehow some article about the woman who did

1427
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 4: the prosthetics and the makeup.

1428
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 2: No, we were working in the same office at that time,

1429
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 2: because again, that actress has a very different look than

1430
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 2: Pamela Anderson, and the prosthetics were incredible.

1431
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I would actually like Sam, Adam or Taha,

1432
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 4: any or all of you to weigh in, what do

1433
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 4: you think is the number one thing that would make

1434
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,680
Speaker 4: someone look like Pamela Anderson?

1435
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:54,639
Speaker 3: Go ahead, I would.

1436
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 13: Say the blonde hair or like the you know that

1437
01:18:58,200 --> 01:18:59,799
Speaker 13: would make them look like pam Anderson.

1438
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 2: She has it's the actress has brown hair and that's

1439
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 2: her name, Lily something.

1440
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 3: She was very good. James, exactly Lily James.

1441
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:13,759
Speaker 6: What do you say, Sam and Adam?

1442
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 14: I think is the hair because that's what nails it.

1443
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 14: Then a lot of the facial features because I remember

1444
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:26,919
Speaker 14: watching that TV show, I almost not tell the difference.

1445
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was so good. Forehead, it was her forehead. Yeah,

1446
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 3: we watched the exactly. We must have been in the

1447
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 3: same room watching the same thing. Yeah, it was her forehead.

1448
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,799
Speaker 2: Her hairline prosthetic was a really big deal, and also

1449
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 2: her assets are tatas you know. All of it kind

1450
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 2: of came together. But she was very upset about it

1451
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 2: because she felt as though it was like continuing this

1452
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 2: narrative that she couldn't really escape Pamela Anderson. So to

1453
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,759
Speaker 2: see her on the other side with Liam Neeson feeling

1454
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 2: in love finally at last, so I can say we

1455
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 2: have cracked the code.

1456
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 3: It is. Love is real and.

1457
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 2: It shall continue till the end of days or until otherwise.

1458
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, GG, from your lips to God's ears on Pam

1459
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:16,759
Speaker 4: Anderson and Meeson.

1460
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 3: Amen.

1461
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 2: By the way, she is right though about Bradley Cooper

1462
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 2: and Lady Gaga, because I was pretty hook line and

1463
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,719
Speaker 2: sinker on that dynamic as well, and they were just acting,

1464
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 2: I still think, and I thought they were super in

1465
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 2: love and couldn't.

1466
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 3: Say it out loud.

1467
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 5: Wow.

1468
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 2: I have no idea why I thought that and why

1469
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 2: I even cared enough to give a thought, but that

1470
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:40,719
Speaker 2: was my long standing thought.

1471
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 13: Maybe the Gg's point they are excellent actors because they

1472
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 13: really did have I mean, when they did the duets together,

1473
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 13: there was some true passion in their eyes.

1474
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 3: So you tell me something, Okay, another rabbit hole. I'm really.

1475
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 4: In love and it's embarrassing. But I mean I remember

1476
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 4: watching somehow a table read for the movie with Bradley

1477
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 4: Cooper and Lady Gaga, and I was like, look at

1478
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:09,879
Speaker 4: the way they're looking at each other, even.

1479
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 3: If they were trans fixed.

1480
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 2: Yes, were we in the same room for that too?

1481
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 2: Corny and I have worked together about a decade. We've

1482
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 2: shared a lot of time together. So but by the way, yeah,

1483
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 2: I saw the exact same thing. They were transfixed on

1484
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 2: each other. I was like, is this some actors like

1485
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:29,759
Speaker 2: lock in like they're hunting each other. I've never seen

1486
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 2: such eye contacts. Yeah, Like they seem so intense. But

1487
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 2: Pamela Anderson and Liam Neeson just seem authentic and I

1488
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:38,680
Speaker 2: love that.

1489
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 6: I'm a big fan of hers.

1490
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, I love Winds, Love Winds. Oh another talkback,

1491
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:46,559
Speaker 2: I hope it's about love.

1492
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:49,080
Speaker 15: Hey, guys, I just wanted to give a shout out

1493
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 15: to my high school teacher, miss La Valley. Yeah, about

1494
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 15: N's case. So the intro to forenzois class every year

1495
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 15: this case and got the whole school interested in who

1496
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 15: killed Jean Benet. I'm so glad you're talking about it.

1497
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 3: I always thought it was suspicious that.

1498
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:07,360
Speaker 15: The parents hopped on a plane right away after the murder,

1499
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:09,559
Speaker 15: And yeah, of course we always thought the brother did

1500
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:11,320
Speaker 15: it as well.

1501
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 2: First of all, The Power of a Good Teacher Unpacking

1502
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 2: true crime, Major Major.

1503
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 3: Well Murder one oh one is another.

1504
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 4: KT Studios podcast about Check Campbell, a teacher and Alex.

1505
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 3: Campbell greatest high school teacher of all time remained so,

1506
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 3: and of course Riley who works with us every day.

1507
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 13: Yes, plane, didn't they talk in the documentary the plane

1508
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 13: was sort of discredited, like there was a rumor he

1509
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,560
Speaker 13: had got on a plane and flew the body somewhere,

1510
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:45,559
Speaker 13: but they said that was not true.

1511
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 6: Am I accurate about that?

1512
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:49,160
Speaker 3: That's absolutely correct?

1513
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 6: Okay, so it.

1514
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 4: Was printed, So you are correct in your talk back

1515
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 4: that that is what was out there. And I personally learned,

1516
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,520
Speaker 4: you know, just watching it the other day, the documentary,

1517
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 4: that that was facts. So we were fed a lot

1518
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 4: from law enforcement and the FBI admittedly.

1519
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:08,920
Speaker 2: Wait, meaning just to just clear that up right and

1520
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 2: for all. So the fact that Dad, yeah, I always

1521
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 2: thought that he also got on an airplane right after

1522
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 2: the murders, and that I thought they both had, but

1523
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 2: that had been discounted.

1524
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:20,799
Speaker 6: Correct.

1525
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 2: Law enforcement was feeding the media misinformation at that time.

1526
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 3: Is that the assertion?

1527
01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, yeah, we're specific about the plane incident.

1528
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:30,679
Speaker 6: We're all talking about.

1529
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 13: I'm not sure if there's a separate one, but there

1530
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 13: was a media outlet that reported a story that he

1531
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:38,519
Speaker 13: got on a plane and it almost sounded like he

1532
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 13: flew literally flew the plane with the body, and that

1533
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:43,879
Speaker 13: was a fake story that.

1534
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 3: They remember that story.

1535
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's sad.

1536
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 13: That was another example of all how you were saying,

1537
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 13: they kept putting all these fake things out there to.

1538
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,759
Speaker 6: Try to put them under pressure to come forward.

1539
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 3: So wow, that's awful.

1540
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 2: Because also the other thing that I don't know why

1541
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 2: this one's in my head, but at the time when

1542
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 2: this case occurred, this always stuck in my head the

1543
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 2: fact that there were no footprints and that there was

1544
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,440
Speaker 2: snow on the ground and there would have been footprints

1545
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 2: leading up to the window or whatever the entryway was

1546
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 2: for this intruder. Okay, so it must be from inside

1547
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:22,679
Speaker 2: the house. That was the obvious deduction. Well, it turns

1548
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:25,720
Speaker 2: out there wasn't even any snow that night period, so

1549
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 2: of course there were no footprints, so that is such

1550
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 2: a tell. Right. So again that was another example of

1551
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 2: something being fed or either fed to the media incorrectly

1552
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 2: or that the media, you know, shared incorrectly. Well, I

1553
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:44,600
Speaker 2: don't even know that it's in question at least, and

1554
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 2: I'm basing it on the documentary that we all just

1555
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 2: you know, watch when we're talking about because both the

1556
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 2: media the journalists said, okay, they were getting their information

1557
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 2: from sources, but even when they were double sourcing, it

1558
01:24:56,840 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 2: was investigators, and the investigators themselves sat down and acknowledge, Yes,

1559
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:05,560
Speaker 2: we were working with the FBI and we were basically

1560
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 2: trying to get a rise and get a confession.

1561
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:11,400
Speaker 6: That was crazy to me, like, I didn't even know

1562
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 6: you could.

1563
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 2: Seems unlawful to me that you could actually, collectively as

1564
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 2: law enforcement of any kind, put a fake story about

1565
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 2: two living people who are trying to grieve the loss

1566
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 2: of their child in hopes of getting a confession, Like

1567
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 2: that's shocking. Well, it's a larger scale than Granny who

1568
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,599
Speaker 2: had her son in law murdered.

1569
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,760
Speaker 3: Excuse me, her name is escaping me. It is Donna.

1570
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 3: She was just sentenced to hiring hitman.

1571
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 2: Granny that now she's looking for a lifetime behind bars.

1572
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 3: Granny. That's right.

1573
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 4: But this played out in the media in the Jamaday case.

1574
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 4: But you know it was seating when the I forget

1575
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 4: which kind of law enforcement gave her papers to get

1576
01:25:56,040 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 4: her and the co conspirators talking. We also saw that

1577
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 4: and piked in where the FBI seeded information.

1578
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 3: So it's great, it's so true.

1579
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,360
Speaker 2: I guess that's a tactic, and I guess if i'm

1580
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:08,679
Speaker 2: I understand it.

1581
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 3: But however, I mean they destroyed their lives.

1582
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, really, I think I left that documentary saying these

1583
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 13: people lost a child and now their entire lives every

1584
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 13: day they had to live with people saying you did it,

1585
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 13: you did it. Like the fact is that someone probably

1586
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 13: may have really killed their child, and we're not focused

1587
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 13: on finding that killer but blaming these poor people. But

1588
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 13: I think it's it's sad and unfortunate. As a matter

1589
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 13: of fact, I think we have another one talk back

1590
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,639
Speaker 13: where someone talks about how they feel about the whole

1591
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 13: job in a situation with it.

1592
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:42,799
Speaker 6: Is that one still there?

1593
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 16: Hello, this is truly from Omaha, Nebraska.

1594
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:47,799
Speaker 3: I jually I think you should keep telling.

1595
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 16: Stories about baby if they deserve to be told, and

1596
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 16: you do it very sensatically. Knowledge is power, and if

1597
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:57,680
Speaker 16: one person after listening to your show recognizes science of

1598
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 16: the views, it will be worth it. You should go

1599
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 16: to Crime Con next year and win all the awards.

1600
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:06,320
Speaker 16: And my question, why is John Ramsey involving the president?

1601
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 16: I don't understand that. I bet Cecy Moore would take

1602
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:10,760
Speaker 16: this on and love to solve.

1603
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 4: Her case at editorial flow up on our part, but

1604
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 4: we're trying to keep you on your toes.

1605
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 2: I a little choked up just now because we've been

1606
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 2: really sweating the baby thing, and I think that gives

1607
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 2: us a little bit of a green light right now.

1608
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:28,280
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, if you say so, we

1609
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 3: think so.

1610
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 2: I'm the heavy on the baby thing because I've been like,

1611
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:34,519
Speaker 2: does anybody really want to hear more?

1612
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 3: But you're right, it's really important stuff. And how do

1613
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 3: we know how to keep ourselves safe if we don't know?

1614
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:43,679
Speaker 4: And it's relevant. I mean it's prevalent in where we live.

1615
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean knowledge is power. And like you said,

1616
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 4: if one person finds, you know, any red flag or

1617
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 4: whatever it is, and we agree about crime con one

1618
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 4: hundred percent, I.

1619
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:54,599
Speaker 3: Know next year.

1620
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:56,800
Speaker 2: This year we just couldn't swing it. It was just

1621
01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:00,160
Speaker 2: the show is real, the hours are real. We couldn't

1622
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:03,559
Speaker 2: miss it. And we do love it though. So next

1623
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 2: year in face, oh yeah, we will.

1624
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:13,280
Speaker 3: Body, we'll all be together, or we'll hang out with you.

1625
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 2: We can have our True Crime Tonight crew come on.

1626
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 2: It would be so fun. And yeah, and I think.

1627
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:23,679
Speaker 6: You guys have both. You've done them before. I've never

1628
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 6: done it. So what is it like? I mean, fill

1629
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:27,680
Speaker 6: me in on what a crime con is like.

1630
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 4: Well, it was Vegas, the one that where we actually

1631
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 4: met body.

1632
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's when we met Body. We were and Courtney

1633
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 2: and I were in a panel. Courtney Armstrong was literally

1634
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:42,599
Speaker 2: signing autographs. But the wait, it was a panel about

1635
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 2: the piked In massacre. People were following her to the airport.

1636
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 2: It was like the smartest crowd. It's like our listeners.

1637
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 2: There are panels of you know, people who are you know,

1638
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 2: either journalists or you know, you can imagine.

1639
01:28:57,960 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 3: Like invaborators, attorney.

1640
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, like all the superstars, Joseph Scott Dagan is like

1641
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:09,320
Speaker 2: a hit there this weekend in Denver, and enthusiasts that

1642
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:13,000
Speaker 2: are just like they're not into murder, they're into you know,

1643
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 2: solving things. And I don't know, it just it was

1644
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 2: a really smart I don't know, it's a smart.

1645
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 4: Smart engaged you know the people who were there, and

1646
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 4: very good energy, not nothing gruesome, nothing, you know, silly

1647
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:28,880
Speaker 4: or nothing.

1648
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1649
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 4: If yeah, if you're thinking, if you're thinking anything bad,

1650
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 4: that's not it.

1651
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,439
Speaker 6: I will say exactly, Okay, it sounds great.

1652
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:41,800
Speaker 4: But to answer the question. So the father, John Ramsey,

1653
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:45,640
Speaker 4: So he is asking President Trump to help push Colorado

1654
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:50,200
Speaker 4: authorities to be more proactive in terms of solving this

1655
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:51,520
Speaker 4: infamous killing.

1656
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 3: Because genetic DNA. That's right. So it's this, and you're

1657
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 3: right about CC Moore.

1658
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:01,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love them, but I think John Ramsay just

1659
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 4: tried to go to the top. I mean, he's been

1660
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:07,559
Speaker 4: pushing molasses up a sand hill for twenty plus years

1661
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:08,640
Speaker 4: and he's like, listen.

1662
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, as he should.

1663
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:12,840
Speaker 13: If Trump, can you know, pardon Christy Todd or you

1664
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 13: know cod.

1665
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:18,000
Speaker 2: Christ By the way, we have to talk about that

1666
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,559
Speaker 2: next week too, Okay, Okay, I have some thoughts on

1667
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 2: that too. Okay, So okay, suddenly we have a minute left,

1668
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 2: Sam and Adam all right, so they're giving us the womanute.

1669
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:33,120
Speaker 2: But we have a lot of exciting things coming up,

1670
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:34,840
Speaker 2: so I have to talk to you about tomorrow night.

1671
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 3: You have to tune in.

1672
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Lisa Bryant, the director of the Epstein documentary Filthy Rich

1673
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 2: on Netflix, is joining us again to break it all down.

1674
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 2: It's also talked back Tuesday, So let's start stashing those

1675
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one crime. Leave us a message

1676
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:54,559
Speaker 2: or a talkback or hit us up on our socials. Listen, guys,

1677
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 2: you've been awesome. It's true crime tonight. We're talking true

1678
01:30:57,960 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 2: crime all the time.

1679
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 3: We love you. Day safe, and we will be back tomorrow.

1680
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:03,639
Speaker 3: Can I get out