WEBVTT - Ep 35: Billy Corgan 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:16.600 Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats. 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.919 Hello and welcome to episode thirty five of the Loud 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:28.440 and Quiet interview podcast Midnight Chats. For this episode, I 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:33.720 met an extremely famous man, and I probably wasn't quite 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.680 appreciative of how famous he was until I was sat 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.760 in front of him. That man is Billy Corgan, the 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.559 lead singer of the Smashing Pumpkins. And of course I 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:46.919 know the Smashing Pumpkins and I know Billy Corgan. I 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.440 know who he is. And I went to do this 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.320 interview and it wasn't until I was actually sat opposite 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.400 him that it kind of clicked. You know, he's an 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:02.000 iconic looking guy. He's unmistakeably Billy Corgan, and I think 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.520 maybe I just wasn't ready for that. And when I 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.960 was sat down, I was like, oh, yeah, you are 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.840 Billy Corgan from the Smashing Pumpkins. I really enjoyed our conversation. 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:15.160 We spoke for about an hour in a hotel in 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:20.640 West London, in Chelsea, and essentially the reason Billy was 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.240 in town and speaking to me was because he's just 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.320 released his second solo album under his own name. If 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.720 you don't include all the Smashing pumpkins stuff, but Oogi 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:36.640 Lala is his new album under the name William Patrick Corgan. 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.520 Please enjoy this episode. Thank you for taking the time 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:44.800 to download it and listen. If you do enjoy it, subscribe, comment, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.560 do all of those things, and do check back on 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.040 previous episodes. Greg's been holding the fort for the past 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.880 few episodes and doing a great job. I've had some 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.040 really good guests on recently, and we've got a few 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.520 really good ones coming up as well, so please do back. 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.600 That'd be enough one of these in two weeks, but 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.080 for now, please enjoy my conversation with the Billy Coran, 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:26.760 actual Billy Corgan. Do you listen to podcasts? 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:27.400 I do. 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:28.160 I do. 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.480 I'm a person who was a self learner, so I 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:36.760 really appreciate like deep dives. Like there's this guy. He 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.400 has a podcast and a website called the Disney History 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.360 Institute or do it the Disneyland History Institute or Disney 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.640 and he does these super deep dives into Disney's world. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.160 He created his creative process, the theme parks he didn't build, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.280 and he's incredibly researched. He has all the contexts in 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.200 the Disney world, access to amazing photo archives, and I 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.320 actually I was so impressed by what he is doing. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:01.760 I reached out to him and he said, oh, you 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.720 just made my day. And you know, he said, I 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.120 was listening recently. It's so cool that you found me. 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.400 And he does really great He puts out like a 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.280 blog and then his podcast is sort of he reads 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.160 his blog post, but it's super long in details to 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.000 be like forty five minutes with some music and stuff. 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.280 So it's a little bit of production. But man, you 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.640 learned so much about something you thought you you thought 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.600 you knew about. It's such a weird thing. And this 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.240 is what I love about it. It's like you think 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.120 you know something and then somebody who's willing to take 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.280 the time and they kind of take you there, and 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.880 you know, it's perfect. What I love about podcasts is 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.280 something like you know, you brushing your teeth. It's like 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.720 you could still listen and learn something. I mean, compared 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.720 to music. I mean, I listened to people's podcasts probably 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.080 ten times more than I listen to music. It just 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.120 sort of goes better with life. I can watch my 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.800 kid and I don't know, just I love it. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.840 So you did you find yesterday? 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.640 I've been in London for a few days. I came 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.640 from Paris and I was in Berlin, and so it's 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.440 I think there's a day eight and then I go 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:05.680 home to Chicago. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.720 Cool. What did you watch on the plane on your 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.480 first long haul? I watched. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:17.640 A so so movie called It's Frank Sinatra. And who 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.080 was in singing in the Rain? His name escapes me, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.160 Gene Kelly. Yeah, him and Sinatra in a kind of 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.599 a navy movie, like in the Navy or Anchors Away or. 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:28.320 Is it the musical? 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:29.279 Yeah, the. 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.479 Something Town, Something something Right, And I think I know 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.839 the one you made. I noticed that planes have started 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.279 to do that more like put old classics on. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:39.040 I love it. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.120 Do you when you when you fly? Do you do 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:43.560 you get into the films? 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.000 I'm not a fan of most new movies. I just can't, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.279 you know even you know, sometimes the watch in some 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:50.960 movie and it's like then you got to get the 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.120 we're ruining the Earth message, and it's just like, I 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:54.720 just want to watch a movie. Man. I don't need 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:58.600 to be politicized too. It's like the politicization of entertainment. 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.839 At some point it gets I mean it's in you know, 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.040 you're watching a kid's cartoon and you're being lectured about 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.200 the rainforest. It's just like, I got it. I mean, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.039 I'm doing the best here. I'm separating my garbage. What 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:09.839 else you want me to do? 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.799 Yeah, that's true. And you don't get that with Frank Sinatcha. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.960 No, you're guaranteed. Yeah, I'm saying you're guaranteed. If you 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.520 watch a movie pre nineteen sixty five, you're pretty much 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.080 guaranteed just to have a laugh. You know, sometimes that's 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.320 not a bad thing. Escapist entertainment is sometimes probably the 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:27.120 best medicine. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.600 So is that what you would watch that home? As well? 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.000 I only watch old movies, old films. I probably ninety 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.160 seven percent of the time watch movies before nineteen fifty. 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.280 I'm a big fan of the studio system, even though 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.320 it didn't treat the individual artists too well. I'm a 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.320 big fan of how they just cranked out like quality 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.920 movie after quality movie. And then I do deep dives 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.920 on people I like, like like, I love Barbara Stanwick, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.599 who was a quintessential American actress, like a beautiful but 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.200 kind of a strange face, kind of a tough I 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.719 think she was from like Pittsburgh, and you know, she's 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.840 the classic. You know, she made good in it in 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.440 Hollywood and was this massive actress, and you know she 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.600 does all these kind of she does everything from the 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.760 rom com to like the serious you know, drama where 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.760 she's the other woman and you know it's just and 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.000 she's always good. She's she's good in every movie. Okay, 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:16.600 so one movie you'll be a six out of ten, 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:17.920 and the next will be a seven out of ten, 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:19.080 and the next will be an eight out of ten. 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.240 But she's always she's always great. And that's why they 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.240 used to have stars like that, because they just crank 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:24.880 them out. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.200 For anyone who's not familiar with her or what would 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.839 be your entry point suggestion. 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.120 Gosh, see, she's one of those weird ones where there's 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.359 there's not that one movie that you that was like 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:37.200 the big movie. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:38.960 Yeah, sorry, what's her name again. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.080 Barbara Stanwick. I'm terrible with this stuff. There's one movie 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.279 where it's like her husband has an affair or something. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.200 It's like but it's like it's like when it kind 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:48.839 of you're kind of getting into like the film noir, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.440 like the forties. It's sort of ahead of its time. 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.839 It's sort of really gritty and maybe she murders her husband. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:54.599 It's like one of those. 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.880 But I know what you mean, know about those old films, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.400 because I like, I like when you can tell this 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:01.760 is this is a really kind of old fashioned boring 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.839 thing to say, But I like when you can see 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:06.840 the sets of a film, when you can see that 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:07.600 they've made. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.920 A oh like made the Street, made the Street. 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.840 Yeah, there's just something about that that and like old 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:13.760 Disney films, like. 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.080 Or like even like Frankenstein, where they made like the 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.200 Bavarian Village. Yeah, and it's like the idealized, scary Bavarian 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.760 village and then you see it in another movie they're like, well, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.240 we'll just use the Bavarian village again, like I've or 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.000 they dress up the Bavarian Village for robin Hood or something. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.320 You know. It's like, isn't that the You can't blame them, right, 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:32.800 I mean. 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.640 No, like we've made this thing now value for money 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.960 out of this thing. I read recently an I think 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.360 you recently did with Rolling Stone on that side, so 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.120 you know it's true. There was just one thing that 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.480 you said in it that, like talking about films, was 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:51.360 just a reference to Stanley Kubrick. You were likening kind 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.800 of the way Kubrick would work to the way that 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:55.360 you work. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.480 I presaged it by saying, please, don't think I'm comparing 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:03.520 myself Curbick, and of course he took that part out. Now, 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:08.480 what I said is Kubrick's methodology is the only artist 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.360 I've ever read that reminds me of mine. Is that 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.560 I do these really deep, immersive dives into things I'm 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.880 fascinated by. I yank out whatever it is I'm interested 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.360 in subconsciously, and somehow it shows up in my work. 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.240 And then I burnt. I literally burned the road to 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.680 where it's like I'm just so done with the subject 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.640 that I just move on to something else. And apparently 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:28.960 that's sort of the way he worked. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.920 So I recently saw two thousand and one for the 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.840 first time. I've never seen fantastic and I saw it 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.640 in the in cinema here at the BFI on the 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:44.920 South Bank, and I mean, it completely fried my mind. 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.200 Well, he's that type of artist, you know. It's funny. 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.679 We used to work with a guy his dad's His 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.400 dad was a Hollywood special effects guy, and his dad's 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.080 claim to fame was he was the guy that designed 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.880 the sequence at the end with the spaceship and the lights, 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:59.719 So it's pretty kind of a cool. Yeah, we got 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:01.640 to hear some of the kind of the background stories 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.440 about the making of that stuff, the special effects stuff. 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.000 But yeah, Kubrick's like, to me, there's a special class 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.160 of twenty century artists like Philip K. Dick is another one. 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:12.400 I don't know if you ever read Philip K. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.640 Dick, no, as there's recently been a series here on 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.720 TV of his stories Electric Dreams. 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.440 Well, he wrote what became blade Runner, right do Android's 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:26.600 dream of Electric Sheep that was that's what became Blade Runner, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:32.120 Minority Report. There was Scanner Darkly with Keanu Reeves, which 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.200 I never saw, but it seemed like it was kind 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.240 of a bit of a funky movie. But many of 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.800 his works have been made in But Philip K. Dick 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.520 is that sort of artist where it's like their work 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.440 is beyond the bounds of the medium they're working in, right, 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.280 And it's so deep and it's so layered that it 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:54.280 takes generations to figure out what even the bigger meta 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:58.320 message is because cultures tend to reflexively look at a 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.160 piece of art and say, what does this have to 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.520 do with us right now. But a true artist works 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.719 on multi dimensional levels. Hence the Mona Lisa. You can 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.360 still get something out of it four hundred years later 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.480 when you should really shouldn't. So why do you It's 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.160 just a painting of somebody. Yeah, and there's plenty of 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.760 paintings of somebody, you know, And that's oftentimes what gets 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.200 difficult as a as a public person who's an artist 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.040 in the media, because the media is asking you to 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.880 find yourself on their terms in this moment. But if 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.480 you've made real work, you know that the work goes 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.800 outside the bounds of that. So you're asked to be 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.160 sort of reductionist about your own work to sell your work, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.520 which inhibits what you've actually tried to create, which is 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.360 something sort of beyond the bounds of the time you're in. 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.760 It's a weird I don't want say compromise. It's a 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.600 weird sort of negotiation that goes on forever. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:49.200 You know. 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.360 It's like there's those books like, you know, read the 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.120 bad reviews of the most famous classical pieces. Have you 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.439 ever seen that? Yeah, it's like somebody's ripping apart, you know, Stravinsky, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.840 you know, you know it's like it gives somebody like 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.360 me a little solas, like, well, in a hundred years, 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.960 they're going to understand my fourth album, you know, Thank god, 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.560 you know, I can go to my grave happy because 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.640 some days somebody's going to figure this out. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.520 Do you genuinely read your right? 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.800 I stopped that about seven ten years ago. 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.160 Yeah, No good can come from that, right, And. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.199 What's weird is and it's hard for people to understand, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.600 like I've had a good review come out in one 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.400 of the big magazines here, and of course somebody tries 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.040 to put it under my nose and say, hey, have 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.400 you read this because they're they're excited for me, like 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:33.880 you got a good review, and it's like, no, no, 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.240 I can't. And they don't understand why because invariably, you know, 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.479 it's critique, right, And I'm not saying I can't be criticized, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.920 but I don't want to put ideas in my head 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.760 that are going to inhibit my ability to produce more work. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.240 So something that I consider just fine based on my 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.480 own set of internal data, like oh, you know, that's 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.080 a pretty good song. It could have been better if 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.160 I've done this, this and this, But you know, I 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:00.920 like the song fine, And then I read a review 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.040 and it's like, and the worst song on the album 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.840 is And suddenly I'm like, now I'm second guessing something 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.160 I wasn't second guessing. But why am I second guessing 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.880 based on one person's opinion? It's a weird again, it's 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:12.840 a weird negotiation. 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.640 Sure, so, I mean we should say that. The reason 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.440 you're you're over here at the moment is new album's 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.200 coming out, allegedly allegedly coming out? Can you tell me 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.240 what it's called? How to pronounce it? Og lala og lala? Okay, 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:26.679 I'm god. 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.720 It's a made up word, is it? Yeah? I just 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:29.160 made it up. 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:30.400 It's just something you came up with. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.680 Well, it's based on, you know, some etymology and is 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.080 that the word? I always get confused. It's like, is 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.720 etymology the study of bugs or the study of words? 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:41.959 It's one of those. Yeah, it's a little bit of 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.000 automotopy and a little bit of etymology. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.840 And yeah, under your own name, it's yours. It's your 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.320 second SIDO record, first in twelve years. 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:51.360 Yeah, the first one didn't go so well. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.400 No, it's a bit of an. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.480 Unpleasant experience, was it not making it. I love making 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.920 the record. I enjoyed it, and I really actually liked 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.160 the record, but I it was it got such a 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.920 strange reception. It was sort of like, well, it's not 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.280 the pumpkins, and why are you doing electronic music? And 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:08.920 I was like, don't you remember I had like hit 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.800 songs with I actually had two hit songs in nineteen 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.880 seventy nine and and and the song I And they 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.680 actually can even argue Aviador, which did quite well in Europe. 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.359 So had three singles in the nineties which were electronics. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.480 So here I am not too in the distant future, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.400 you know, making more electronic music. Was like, why have 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.200 you given up the guitar? And I was like, no, 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.320 there's guitar on the album. It's like, it was this weird. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.120 Why do you think people were like that? Was it 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.600 just was it because they loved the Pumpkins so much 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.280 and it was fun. It's two thousand and five, wasn't it. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.960 It's us right, No, I since we have time to 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:46.760 take the deeper dive into culture. I think that one 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.679 of the strangest I'm fifty years old, so I've lived 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.720 long enough to sort of see the death of print 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.720 media move into the Bloggi sphere, move into the YouTube 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:01.040 podcast the dominance of the podcast genre a blitter all comers. 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.240 There's collateral damage, which, of course in any cultural shift 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.319 there's going to be. You know, so this is not 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.880 this is not me crying foul. But one of the 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:21.720 strangest effects of digital culture was the winnowing down of 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.880 let's call it like what you stand for in essence, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.000 there's so much data that people don't have enough bandwidth 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:35.000 go beyond Oh, you're the pumpkin guy and you make 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:40.120 noisy rock, and no amount of contrary information will change 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.240 that label. It's a weird or you know, my band 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.360 is listed on iTunes under alternative. Who made that decision? 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.000 You know, so forever you're in this box, in some 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.400 digital box, but in a record store, you might have 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.560 been mixed in next to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.800 who are now under rock or classic. You know. So 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:07.320 it's this weird ghettos and and so I think I 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:12.360 was sort of hit sideways by this narrowing down of 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.920 like who you are in the culture. And the longer 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.360 you get away from let's call it the moment, the 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:27.520 narrower the definition becomes. It becomes simplified. And so even though, like, 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.680 let's say, the last electronic hit I had was nineteen 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.320 ninety eight, and I'm making an album seven years later 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.960 with similar themes and influences, seven years in digital time 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.080 is seven hundred. So what was remembered about me seven 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.400 years later wasn't that I had hits with acoustic guitars 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.040 and strings, and it was You're the Pumpkin Guy, and 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.680 the Pumpkin Guy's angry and sings about rats and cages. 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.560 So this isn't that. And I'm standing there thinking I'm 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.320 on the other timeline, which is the one that actually 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.320 circles around the sun timeline. There are artists that three 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.440 years ago were on the cover of magazines and they're 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.160 gone already. That would have been unheard of in the past. Yeah, 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.800 they would at least had three four more years. People 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:13.840 rise and fall within twelve eighteen month cycles. They rise 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.000 like a phoenix in crash. There's this acceleration of the cycles, 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.280 is my long winded point here. 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.080 So with that in mind, in terms of the new record, 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.520 which is it's not an electronic record. In fact, it's 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.200 thank god, it's a very stripped back. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:29.560 It's a midnight affair. 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:35.040 It's a midnight affair and it's mostly you and acoustic 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:40.200 guitar and piano. Yeah, no drums, no drums. How do 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.040 you think in terms of like this idea, if you're 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.480 the pumpkin guy, you're the angry pumpkin rock guy. What 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.600 do you think is going to be the response to 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:47.760 this record? 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.960 Well, empirically and based on what I just said, you 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.360 would think you're going the wrong way right. The strange, 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:01.040 strange thing happened about three years ago. I live down 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.560 the road in Chicago from an outdoor venue. It goes 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.479 back to the eighteen hundreds. It's probably something that's all 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.080 over year, but for America it's a little bit rare. 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.560 It's a park where people sit out on the lawn 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.640 and listen to a show. It's meant to be in 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.360 international acts from all the world coming to play. It's 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:22.000 a storied place. So three years ago, the guy from 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:23.960 the venue, they must have had an open date or something, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.720 because it was the last minute thing. The guy called 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.560 and said, would you be willing to come in and 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.320 play a solo gig? And he made a pretty generous 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.320 offer to where you're like, well, it's worth getting up 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.600 off my butt to go do this. So Jeff and 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.440 I from the Pumpkins put together an acoustic show and 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.080 we did some electronics stuff too, and we played it 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.840 loud a little bit, but mostly it was mostly acoustic 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.800 the whole night, and the reception was so positive. Again, 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.280 an organic response to something that we didn't wouldn't have 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.840 expected an organic response from that. Then the next year 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.440 we toured as Smashing Pumpkins. We call it in planes, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.800 but it was basically Pumpkins acoustic with some electronic and 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:02.960 it was the other side of the Pumpkins catalog type 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.160 of thing. The response was two or sold out immediately. 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.359 Response was great. So then we did it again the 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.520 next year, bigger places, best reviews I've probably ever gotten ever. 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:20.280 So somehow we accidentally hit a vein that interests the 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.560 fan base that like that like somehow this approach is 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:31.640 organically and connected to their understanding of that idea, but 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.800 not in an intellectual way. Don't ask me why. 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.000 Maybe it's like, maybe it's just as basic as the 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:41.680 fact of a Pumpkins fan from the nineties likes guitars 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:43.840 and rock guitars and now they're old. 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.880 They're old, and as they're as they're using their walker, you. 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:50.160 Know, they want something a bit quiet. 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.880 Yeah, that little slower pace. We used to walker with him. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.840 But maybe it's just that they're like the symps and 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.000 electronics is maybe like a bit of a step too far, 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.840 but an acoustic guitar and piano is kind of within 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:02.800 that kind of vein. 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.199 I think that's a good that's a good assertion, and 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:09.680 I would they seem to be attracted to the melody 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.200 and the lyric. So in essence, if you were trying 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.320 to take a guess, the lyric, the message still means something, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.679 and maybe the guitar is that the loud guitar is 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.880 less important as the message. It's something about the messages 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:27.800 working so shocked me. Honestly, I didn't expect to sort 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.560 of end up here because I kept getting in my 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.760 ear from industry professionals. You know, if only you could 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.439 like Bob Dylan in his book, you know, he's supposed 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.080 to write three, but he only wrote one so far. 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.080 He talks about how people for years would say, can't 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.119 you just go back to the old Bob Dylan, And 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.199 he actually says in the book, I actually wanted to 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.280 give them the old Bob Dylan and I couldn't. So 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:48.440 I think that's quite astute. 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.640 So you started making this record with that in mind, 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:52.679 with it to be that. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.480 No, it's it's it's it's like, well around the podcast, 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.000 I can explain it. So it's like two roads that 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.960 are running alongside each other but don't meet, but ultimately 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.040 meet by accident. That's kind of what happened to me. 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.159 So over here, I'm telling you this sort of organic 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.920 thing is happening with acoustic music for me, but only 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.280 on the live side. I have no intention of doing 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:13.520 an acoustic album. 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:14.560 Why not? 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.119