1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 2: Hey there, and. 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: an executive producer with iHeartRadio and how the tech are you? 5 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: It's time for another tech Stuff classic episode. This episode 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: is titled tech Stuff Goes Transmitter Hunting, Part One that's 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: published on March eighth, twenty seventeen, and Joe McCormick of Stuffed, 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind joined me for this particular episode. I 9 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: hope you enjoy. Joe McCormick beloved in our office. We 10 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: sing his phrases when he's not around. Joe, welcome back. 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: To the show. Thank you for having me. 12 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan, You're welcome, Joe. It's like a little it's like 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: a two thirds forward thinking reunion right now. 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: So I wanted to talk today a little bit about 15 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 2: a subject that is recently near and dear to my heart. Yeah, 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: not a long time fascination, a recent obsession. Yeah, and 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: that is the idea of radio direction finding. 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. This was something I knew. I mean really, I 19 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: knew nothing about it when you brought this to my attention. 20 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: And the more I learned about it, the more I 21 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: realized not only is it a fascinating subject, but it 22 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: also in many ways is kind of a spiritual cousin 23 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: to some other topics I've covered, like geo cashing. Just 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: for one specific part of radio direction finding that we'll 25 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: get into in this episode. 26 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: Okay, So to introduce you here, I want you to 27 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: imagine you have a favorite radio station, ninety nine. You 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: don't have to imagine, you really do it. What do 29 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: they play on Power. 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: Ninety Well, they don't play anything anymore because now it's 31 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: ninety nine X. But back in the nineties, Power ninety 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: nine was the station that slowly introduced Atlanta to the 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: wonderful world of alternative music. 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: Okay, so r EM. 35 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: Got a lot of play. In fact, the very first 36 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: time I ever heard Ram's Losing My Religion was on 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: Power ninety nine. 38 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, do you listen now to ninety seven point 39 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: one the River? You know what? 40 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: Not a big not a big fan of the River, 41 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: But I do still listen to ninety nine X, which 42 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: is not on ninety nine point seven anymore. I can't 43 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: remember which station it's on, but I still listen to that. 44 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: Okay, well take yourself back in time, Jonathan, Okay, go 45 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: back to the days of Power ninety nine will do 46 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: and imagine, you know, Power ninety nine. It just gets 47 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: you through the morning. Yeah, you wake up every day, 48 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: you know, it gets you through the TDM of peeling 49 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: those thirty seven hard boiled eggs you're gonna eat for breakfast. Yeah, 50 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: and it''s accurate so far, and it just it's your 51 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: favorite part of the day. But one morning you switch 52 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: on your radio to Power ninety nine. You think you're 53 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: gonna hear some great new r EM singles, but instead 54 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: something is wrong. Instead of the regular programming of your 55 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 2: of your regular favorite radio station, you are treated to 56 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: an unending loop of Mick Jagger's nineteen eighty five solo 57 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: love ballad hard Woman. 58 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: Is this the one that has the terrible music video? 59 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was put together by a crazy supercomputer. 60 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, now I remember this. I remember you showing me 61 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: that music video. And the only thing worse than the 62 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,119 Speaker 1: music video was, in fact, the song itself. 63 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: It's it's hard to know which is worse, but yeah, 64 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: so it's looping. In fact, they don't even let the 65 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: song finish. Each time it plays, the loop begins about 66 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: ten to fifteen seconds before the song's over. 67 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: It's just maddening. 68 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So you call up the station, you call up 69 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: Power ninety nine and say, hey, what's up with Hard 70 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: Woman all the time? Where's myrim? And they say, I 71 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: don't know what you're talking about. We're running our regular programming. 72 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: Somebody is jamming you. 73 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: So what they're doing is they're using a transmitter, presumably 74 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: one much closer to you than the radio station's transmitter 75 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: and at a power that overpowers the incoming signal for 76 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: that radio station. 77 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: Right, because they're closer to you than the radio station is. 78 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: They can do this because the only. 79 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: Other way they could do that is if they were 80 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: actually putting in more power in the transmitter than the 81 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: radio station is, which. 82 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: Is not likely. But somebody in your neighborhood, somebody near 83 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 2: your house with a with a vendetta against r em yeah, 84 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: or maybe just an unending, powerful, overflowing love for Mick 85 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: Jagger's Hard Woman. 86 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: Or some sort of curmudgeon in between. 87 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: Uh huh, yeah, is broadcasting this malicious interference on the 88 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: same frequency as your beloved station. Now, obviously this is intolerable, 89 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: but the station themselves, well they probably can't do anything 90 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: about it. Sure, so you contact the FCC. Right, this 91 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: should be their job to. 92 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: Deal with here in the US. That's exactly who I 93 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: would I've got them on speed dial. 94 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: Right, Signal intrusion. Right, you're supposed to regulate the airwaves, 95 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: so you call it the FCC. But ah, they tell 96 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: you to take a hike. They're busy undoing net neutrality soon. 97 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: So what are you going to do? Are you just 98 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 2: going to allow this radio freak to jagger up your 99 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: mornings for the rest of your life. 100 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: That doesn't sound like me, Joe. 101 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: If that's not your style. Yeah, one thing you could 102 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: do is try to take matters into your own hands. Now, 103 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: how would you do that? You would have to track 104 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 2: down the jagger jammer yourself and give this creep a 105 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: piece of your mind. But how could you do that? 106 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 2: Like the song loop doesn't say, hey, by the way, 107 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 2: here's the address of my secret jamming transmitter, right, at 108 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: least not explicitly. 109 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: So then I'd have to figure out some way independent 110 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: of the content of the signal to track the location 111 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: of the transmitter. 112 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what today's episode is going to be about. 113 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: If you know a few techniques and if you have 114 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: some special equipment on hand, you actually should be able 115 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: to locate this jammer through the art of radio direction 116 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: finding or RDF, as I'm sure we'll refer to it 117 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 2: throughout this episode. It's the act of hunting or radio 118 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: broadcast to its physical source. So today we're going to 119 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: talk a little bit about RDF in general, a little 120 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: bit about the history about the science behind it. But 121 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 2: we also wanted to focus somewhat on the sport of 122 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: transmitter hunting, also known as tea hunting or fox hunting, 123 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: which turns this activity of radio direction finding into a 124 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: recreational activity. 125 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: And this ties into a lot of those other subjects 126 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: I was talking about, like from the aspect of geocachhing, 127 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: where we're using technology for some sort of recreational activity 128 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: that wasn't necessarily intended to be when we first started 129 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: developing that tech, all the way to the story Chuck 130 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: and I did about the infamous Max Hedgroom incident right where. 131 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 2: Somebody another case of signal intruthu exactly. 132 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: Someone was able to do signal intrusion in the Chicago 133 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: market and overpower television signals and present an absurd, slightly disturbing, 134 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: and very surreal Max Headroom type of intrusion, Well those things, 135 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's kind of why we're talking about this, 136 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: is like, how would you detect where such an intrusion 137 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: is coming from if you had enough time to do so. 138 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: In the case of the Max Headroom incident, Yeah, by 139 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: the time anyone knew what was happening, it was too 140 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: late to really figure out where's the signal coming from. 141 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: They had general ideas just based upon the architecture of 142 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: the city, because things like buildings and stuff can get 143 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: in the way of radio signals, so that that limits 144 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: where a signal can come from. But you need something 145 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: more sophisticated in order to narrow down the actual direction 146 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: and specifically the locality of a transmitter. So this has 147 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: a really long history. It dates back pretty much shortly 148 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: after we started sending radio signals. In fact, the very 149 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: first person to kind of associate directionality with radio signals 150 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: was Heinrich Hertz. And that name Hurts probably rings some bells. 151 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about a lot about Hurts the 152 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: unit of measurement and not Hurts the person in this episode. 153 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,559 Speaker 1: He discovered in eighteen eighty eight with an open loop 154 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: of wire which was acting like an antenna, or it 155 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: really was an antenna, wasn't acting like one, just a 156 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: bent one. Yeah, But this was a loop of wire 157 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: that had a gap between the two ends of the loop. 158 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 1: So it's not a closed loop, it's an open loop. 159 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: It had some direction finding properties to it. He found 160 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: that if he used this loop near a transmitter and 161 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 1: if the looper positions so that it's ends faced the transmitter. 162 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: In other words, if you're looking at the face of 163 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: a transmitter and you're looking at a loop, the loop 164 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: is at a ninety degree angle. It's the wire part 165 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: is facing the ends of the wire part is facing 166 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: the transmitter as post to the open face. 167 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: Okay, it would create real a. 168 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: Big spark between those two ends. If you started to 169 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: rotate the loop of wire so that the open face 170 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: the o if you will, of the loop faced the transmitter, 171 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: it didn't create that spark. So rotating it would create sparks, 172 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: and the biggest spark would be if it was in 173 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: this ninety degree alignment with the transmitter. And that showed 174 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: that there was some directionality with radio waves and antenna. 175 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that specifically you could put together an antenna 176 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: receiver in certain ways that it would respond differently depending 177 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 2: on how it's oriented. 178 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: Exactly with respect to the source of transmission exactly, So 179 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: the next one you would talk about the actual One 180 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: of the earliest successful implementations of this idea would be 181 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: the Bellini Tosi apparatus, not the only early direction finding antenna. 182 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,239 Speaker 2: Why am I imagining some kind of dessert making machine 183 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: the Billini Tosi apparatus. It's like a large box, out 184 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: of which comes big blobs of icing. 185 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: Right, or gelato or something. I'm on a diet, Dude, 186 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: you are killing. 187 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 2: The runs on diesel. 188 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: I would eat diesel powered gelatto right now in a heartbeat, 189 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: but instead I'm going to stick to my Brussels sprouts. 190 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: So two Italian officers named Ettore Bellini and Alessandro Tossi 191 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: came up with this. Sometimes it's actually called the Marconi 192 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: Ballini tosi because Marconi's name gets attached to everything. Yeah, 193 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: that might be a little bitter tesla left over issues 194 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: that I have about Marconi's name getting associated with stuff 195 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: that certainly he was instrumental in the development of, but 196 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: perhaps not the primary source of that technology the way 197 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: his name would indicate anyway. 198 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, the wireless telegraph you'd want his name all over everything. Yeah, yeah, 199 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 2: don't worry. 200 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: About people who worked on that stuff, you know, before him, 201 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: or had originally secured a patent before he had and 202 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: then had their patents overturned. Stop with your bitterness. That's 203 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: another episode. In fact, I've talked about it in previous episodes. 204 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: So the way this worked is that they actually created 205 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: two loops of wire arranged at right angles with respect 206 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 1: to one another. So you can think of these as 207 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: kind of like a casing, these two big loops of 208 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: wire at right angles in the middle of which they 209 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: put a third coil of wire, but this one could 210 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: rotate freely within those two fixed ninety degree angle loops. 211 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so it's like a wire globe and then another 212 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: loop inside. 213 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that wire loop inside can freely rotate, and 214 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: that's where they were able to create this directional antenna, 215 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: this direction finding antenna. The rotating element is called a 216 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: rotor or sense coil, and then the other two are 217 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: called stators or field coils. And folks, I apologize, I'm 218 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: still over getting over a cold, so you're gonna hear 219 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: me be raspy throughout this episode, just like last time. Yay, 220 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,599 Speaker 1: So these original ones were big, big devices. 221 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 222 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: The first picture I saw it showed the operator sitting 223 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: at a desk and the actual antenna was about twice 224 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: the height of the desk he was sitting at. 225 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: Now, what was this used for? 226 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: At the time, These were used as land stations around 227 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: primarily Europe, and were used mainly to help with navigation. 228 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 2: So how would that work. 229 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: You would have this enormous antenna that was detecting transmissions 230 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: coming from other vessels, let's say navy vessels or maritime vessels, 231 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: and they would be able to detect what direction the 232 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: the that transmissions coming from and send information back out 233 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: via radio to the vessel. 234 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: So the lost ship says where am I sends a 235 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 2: transmission saying where am I land based? 236 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: Our southwest? 237 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 2: It knows where it is, yes, and if it knows 238 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 2: the direction you're transmission is coming from, then it can 239 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: tell you where you. 240 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: Are in general. Yes. And then eventually you actually saw 241 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: these devices being placed on the craft themselves. So then 242 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: you could have a stationary radio transmission center sending out 243 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: a basic signal sometimes and frequently having the location for 244 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: that transmission center encoded in the signal itself sent out 245 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: to sea, and then the vessels would have these type 246 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: of antenna aboard them. They could then use the antenna 247 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: to figure out what direction the transmission's coming from because 248 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: they know the specific location of that center because it's 249 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: in the signal itself. 250 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: So the same thing, but inverse exactly. 251 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: So early ones were land based, then later on they 252 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: were actually based on the vehicles themselves. Whether it was 253 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: it started off with ships, it eventually also incorporated aircraft. 254 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: Now I know that the idea of finding the physical 255 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: location of a radio transmitter, whether it's a vehicle or 256 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: a station of some kind, must have played a big 257 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: role once radio was used in warfare. 258 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely there were some instrumental battles in which one side 259 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: or the other frequently actually was the Allies had determined 260 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: that a certain German group of units, typically U boats, 261 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: was really effected in naval warfare thiss in World War One, 262 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: world War two. Actually world War one there was some, 263 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: but world War two it really came into play. World 264 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: War one, certainly the U boat communications, which were using 265 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: very low frequency radio waves, it was very important. By 266 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: world War two, you're talking about more high frequency and 267 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: radio ways being put into use. That's where we get 268 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: the huff Duff because it's high frequency direction finder antennas 269 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: hf DFS or huff Duff was the nickname. You get 270 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: the huff Duff antennas that would indicate the direction of 271 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: a trans and that would help be able to track 272 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: like enemy movements, enemy troop movements, particularly in the in 273 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: the Navy. 274 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 2: And it can you imagine how disappointed these antennas are 275 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: when they get sorted into huffleduff. 276 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, right, Like you know, they all want to 277 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: be Slytherin because that's my house. I don't know what 278 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: house you belong to. 279 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: I I that's not for me to say. 280 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: It never been sorted. I got sorted into Slytherin. I mean, 281 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: I'm just saying I didn't try to. It just happened. 282 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: You just put on the hat. I do what the 283 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: hat tells me. Man. I live my life that way. 284 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: So this type of antenna was originally meant not for 285 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: military purposes. It was actually meant to help meteorologists learn 286 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: more about lightning and was developed by Robert Watson Watt 287 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: back in nineteen twenty six, and it was to help 288 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: locate where a lightning strike occurs, because you know lightning. 289 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: It gives off electromagnetic rays just or waves, I should 290 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: say not rays, but waves, just as a radio antenna 291 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: would sure, and so you would use these antenna to 292 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: detect the location of lightning strikes. It also helped you 293 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: track the pathway of electrical storms. So that's what it 294 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: was intended for. But in World War Two it got 295 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: put to other uses to try and track movements of 296 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: enemy troops. Very important. Now, after World War Two, we 297 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: started seeing more development in radio direction finding technology, not 298 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: just in military but also commercial applications. In fact, we 299 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: also saw a lot of amateur radio operators get interested 300 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: in it, and particularly once ham radio in the United 301 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: States was really starting to take off. 302 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: I guess that was in the fifties sort of. 303 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, forties and fifties really really post world War two, 304 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: because during World War Two they were very very picky 305 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: about who got a chance to actually broad cast radio. Right, Yeah, 306 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: they were like, you know, guys, we need you, guys 307 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: to unless we're telling you to do it, don't do 308 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: that thing, right. So, but once World War two was over, 309 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: we saw a lot more development go into that and 310 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: there are a lot of a lot of purposes for 311 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: RDF we talked about navigation, it's not really used for 312 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: navigation that much anymore because we have more sophisticated methods 313 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: for navigation. 314 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 2: Lots satellites, now, yeah, we've. 315 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: Got we've got stuff beyond, like a radio transmitter and 316 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: a receiver. That being said, there's still some places that 317 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: use radio beacons as a means for emergency backup, some 318 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: around the UK, not really any in the United States. 319 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: At this point, maritime vehicles held onto it longer than 320 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: aircraft did. But even today you don't really see that 321 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: as a as a even a tertiary method for navigation 322 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: because we have so many other more sophisticated systems at play. 323 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: But there are other reasons that we do still use them. 324 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: I mean, well, one would be like the example hunting 325 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: down illicit broadcasts and jammers. 326 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, Now this was huge in World War Two 327 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: as well. The UK actually ended up getting a big 328 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: volunteer force of interceptors about seventeen hundred folks in the 329 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: UK who were amateur radio operators, and use them to 330 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: help suss out any enemy transmissions that were coming from 331 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: the UK. 332 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: Because is there a period piece movie about this year? 333 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: There should be, although it'd be kind of boring because 334 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: I think they only find anything. They found like two 335 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: and one of them was one that they were doing 336 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: on purpose. 337 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 2: Well, that could be the angle. Maybe there was a 338 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 2: cover up, there's some big secret or like. 339 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: There's the crowd of HAM operators carrying pitchforks storming the 340 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: transmitter room of this one perceived enemy of the state, 341 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: and it turns out that they're just following or from 342 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: the UK government to send out false commands. Because that 343 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: was a thing, right, Like, it wasn't just secret information, 344 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: it was disinformation. There were a lot of different campaigns 345 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: going on in the information and intelligence worlds in World 346 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: War Two. 347 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 2: So but that's glorious the image of an army of Hams. Yeah, 348 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 2: radio Hams coming at you to vhfu up yep. 349 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: That's right. There's so much opportunity there for edge of 350 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: your seat drama. But the interesting thing to me was 351 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: that the UK they were using I five to head 352 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: this operation because that's their domestic intelligence agency, but they 353 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: determined that really this was a bigger problem in Europe. 354 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: They had a lot more clandestine operators in Europe on 355 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: both sides, really sending out messages via radio transmission and 356 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: so they switched this operation over to I six, which 357 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: looked at intelligence coming from outside the UK rather than 358 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: from within it. So it's kind of in the United 359 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: States the difference between our FBI and our CIA, same 360 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: sort of thing, and in Europe was a much different story. Like, 361 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: the RDF was incredibly important during World War Two because 362 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: there were so many different operators using radio transmission as 363 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: a way of getting either spy reports or orders across 364 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: various borders. It eventually got to the point actually where 365 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: the access powers were really shy about transmitting any information 366 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: because they were so worried about it getting intercepted and caught. Now, 367 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: this is the same era as the Enigma machine, right, 368 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: and once the Allies were able to crack some of 369 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: the Enigma codes, was it really became apparent that you 370 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: had to be super careful with your intelligence, otherwise you 371 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: were handing the enemy all of your game plans. So 372 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: really interesting story though. Then there's other methods or other 373 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: reasons to use RDF. 374 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: There's search and rescue, Yeah, how about that, So coast 375 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 2: guard or rescuing a down plane. Either one. You might 376 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 2: have a vehicle that is equipped with radio transmission capability 377 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 2: but is it self stranded. 378 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of civil aircraft that have this. 379 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: There are a lot of like if you are if 380 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: you're hiking in an area that is prone to avalanches, 381 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: you may even have a transmitter on you as a 382 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: means for emergency signaling in the case of an avalanche. 383 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: So this is still a thing, right. It's something that 384 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: can send out a steady signal with perhaps an encoded message, 385 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: usually a unique identifier to whatever the transmitter is, so 386 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: that once you tune into it, you know that you're 387 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: actually listening for the right signal. You're not going to 388 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: get distracted by a signal on a similar frequency that 389 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: is not what you're looking for, and you can try 390 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: and narrow down your search to find whatever it is 391 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: that's lost. 392 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: Now, one thing we mentioned earlier is hunting malicious interference, 393 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: people who are intentionally jamming a radio station or broadcasting 394 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 2: propaganda or something like that. But there's also unintentional interference, 395 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: and this could be useful too for tracking down you 396 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 2: know something, maybe radio frequencies are leaking out of some 397 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: sort of device and they're interfering with the broadcast band 398 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 2: around there. 399 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's it's not necessarily something that's done 400 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: with malicious intent. Really, anything that creates an electrical field 401 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: is creating electromagnetic radiation, and that some form of that 402 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: is in radio waves, and depending upon the power of 403 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: the device in question, it could be putting out radio 404 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: waves strong enough to interfere with transmission of normal signals. 405 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: You'll hear about this also, like I remember hearing about 406 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: this with theaters, in fact, theaters that were using wireless 407 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: radios in order to have back of house talk to 408 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: front of house for stuff like stage managing and lighting 409 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: changes and stuff, and then you would end up getting 410 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: truckers talking over your system and it would just Peter 411 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: Pan became an entirely different show at that point. 412 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: But this is the sort of thing tinker Bell about 413 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: the speed trap up there. 414 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it all has to do with the frequency 415 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: you're using in the power of the radios in question, right, 416 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: or perhaps more problematically, having that transmission of a high 417 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: school production of Peter Pan being transmitted out to people 418 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: who are using radio for really important reasons. This is 419 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why most places around the world 420 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: have very strict rules of what types of equipment can 421 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: use which frequency bands, so that it avoids that kind 422 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: of crost contamination. 423 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: You don't have the problem where Officer Officer Hurtz tries 424 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 2: to radio in for backup, but instead he's being jammed 425 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: by Peter Pan. 426 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: Right, or suddenly Captain Hook and a bunch of pirates 427 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: show up, Like, this is not the backup I was 428 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 1: hoping for. That wasn't hoping for a chorus line, I 429 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: really need physical people to help back me up for 430 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: this dangerous situation. 431 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: Another use that you have here that I didn't even 432 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: think of, but very smart wildlife tracking. 433 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, animals get tagged exactly. These are transmitters that 434 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: send out a steady signal so that scientists can continue 435 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: to monitor the movement of various wildlife. Usually you do 436 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: this to track migration patterns and how those might change, 437 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 1: particularly in light of things like human like humans moving 438 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: into what used to be territory. For animals, how do 439 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: their migration patterns change, or in the face of changing 440 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: weather patterns, that kind of thing, And you need obviously 441 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: to have a direction finder in order to know where 442 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: the animals are actually going. Plus, if you ever want 443 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: to go into a physical check, let's say that you 444 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: are doing like a drawing blood from a specific animal 445 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: every few months. Then you need to be able to 446 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: track where that animal is and narrow down its range 447 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 1: so that you can actually get to it and do that. 448 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: So that is another use, and of course we've already 449 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: kind of talked about it, but spies, I mean not 450 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: just not just someone trying to transmit something. Sometimes it's 451 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: like trying to find a bug. Like bugs that have 452 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: been planted in places, they're sending out little radio transmission. Typically, 453 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you could have one that's just recording natively 454 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: to a device, but that means you have to go 455 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: back into that place and retrieve the device in order 456 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: to hear what's been recorded on it. Most bugs are transmitters, 457 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: so that means that you have to have a radio 458 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: direction finder to figure out where a transmission is coming from. 459 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: Let's say it's a nice big embassy building. You might 460 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: need to narrow down exactly where is this thing and 461 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: that you know, we see those in spy movies, but 462 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: it really does happen. I Museum in Washington, DC fascinating. 463 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: You can actually see some of the devices that were 464 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: used to both plant bugs and to detect them. 465 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: I want to go to that sometime. I've read a 466 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 2: little bit about I remember seeing online a thing about 467 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: their exhibit on spy pigeons. 468 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun. It's weird in that I don't mean 469 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: this to become like an ad for the Spy Museum 470 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: in DC. It's weird because I feel like the presentation 471 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: is really perfectly geared towards kids. But there's so much 472 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: text involved in the exhibits that I don't know that 473 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: your average kid has the tension span or desire to 474 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: read that much while going through a museum. So my 475 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: experience was that I was trying to read the same 476 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: paragraph fifteen times while kids were running all over the 477 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: place trying to play with stuff. So it was a 478 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: little frustrating for me, but fascinating exhibits, really well laid 479 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: out and lots of fun stuff. They incorporate both real 480 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: world spy gadgets and also movie stuff, so they had 481 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: like an entire James Bond section that was really a 482 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, so that's cool. And then 483 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: one other modern use for radio direction finding is what 484 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: we're really going to focus on toward the end of 485 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: the show, which is using it recreationally for sport. So 486 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: this idea of fox hunting trying to. 487 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 2: You know, competitively, you mean the sport itself, not like 488 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 2: using radio direction finding to find a lost ball in golf. 489 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no reason you couldn't do that other 490 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: than the fact that you would have to have a 491 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: golf ball with a transmitter and have to build it 492 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: in such a way that it could withstand enormous force 493 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: being placed upon the ball and still not you know, 494 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: still continue to transmit. Probably would have keep going on. Yeah, no, 495 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about all the different This is the thing 496 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna put out a joking hypothetical, and I'm going 497 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: to go through why it's going to be difficult to implement, Well, impossible, 498 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: but difficult. 499 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: Maybe we should stop you there and take a break. Yeah, 500 00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: let's do that. 501 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break that the think our sponsor 502 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: all right, we're back now. Before we dive into the 503 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: wonderful world of fox hunting, it would probably behoove us 504 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: to understand a little bit more about radio waves, how 505 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: they work, transmitters and antenna in order to get at 506 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: what transmitter hunting is all about. So we're gonna start 507 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: at basic, like elementary level radio physics, okay, and we're 508 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: gonna build from there. So radio waves are a subset 509 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: of electromagnetic waves, so are also called EM waves or 510 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: N waves. You have to put your finger up to 511 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: your chin like you're thinking N waves. Now, em waves 512 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: come from stuff that generates an electric field. 513 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 2: Doesn't have to. 514 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: Be a particularly sophisticated setup. You can actually do this 515 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: with something as simple as a nine volt battery and 516 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: a coin. Really, yeah, if you put a coin across 517 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: the terminals of a nine volt battery, you are generating 518 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 1: an electric fil because all you're doing is closing the 519 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: circuit from the negative and positive terminals and allowing electricity 520 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: to flow through. That creates an electric field. 521 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: Right, But I'm assuming you're saying this because doing that 522 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 2: would generate some kind of radio signal that can be detected. 523 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: Yes, it's a very weak radio signal. But if you 524 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: were to do this very close to an AM radio first, 525 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: you would you would want to tune the AM radio 526 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: to something that's just static. You're not actually getting a 527 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: signal like a strong signal. In and if you were 528 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: to place the coin against the terminals and listen closely 529 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: to the radio, you should hear a crackle as the 530 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: coin makes contact with those terminals. Because you're sending out 531 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: this little radio signal and the radio is detecting it. Now, 532 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: you're not sending out anything meaningful. It's just noise. That's 533 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: why you're just getting a crackle. You could send a 534 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: signal in Morse code, so you could encode a signal 535 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: by the sound and absence of sound of this crackle, 536 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: But there's nothing meaningful in the crackle itself. Right, But 537 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: that does show you that it doesn't take very much 538 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: for you to generate radio waves. The electromagnetic waves that 539 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: we talk about all have kind of common features, even 540 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: though they may do very different things. There's certain things 541 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: that we can use to describe them that's common across 542 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: all of them. So when we plot those waves on 543 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: a graph, you know, it's a little up and down 544 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: the crests and troughs that you would see usually across 545 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: an X and y axis. We would call the height 546 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: of those waves the amplitude. This typically, like in sound waves, 547 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: this would be the volume of sound, right, yea. The 548 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: higher the amplitude, the louder the sound is. The length 549 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: of the wave is the wave length. 550 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: Okay, that's really kind. 551 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: Of tricky, right, And the number of waves that pass 552 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: through any given point on that graph within a second, 553 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: that's the frequency. 554 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 2: But because these waves always move at the same speed, 555 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: which is the speed of light. Yes, if you know 556 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: one or if you know the wavelength or the frequency, 557 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 2: you know the other exactly. You know how fast it's going, right, right. 558 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: So when we talk about different frequencies, we're not talking 559 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: about speed of the signal, because the signal is still 560 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: traveling at the speed of light no matter what. We're 561 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: talking about the number of times a wave passes any 562 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: given point within a second. Typically it's within a second. 563 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: It's really any unit of time. But for the purposes 564 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: of measurement, we talk about hurts, and a hurtz talks 565 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: about the number of times a wave passes a point 566 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: in a second. So one hurts would be once a second. 567 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: That would need to be an extremely long wave because 568 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: for it to take a full second for the wave 569 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: to pass that point, and it's traveling at a speed 570 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: of light, that's incredibly long. 571 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: Right, So how far does light go in a second? 572 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 2: Let's see, I don't know, like. 573 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: Further than I've ever been. 574 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 2: I can tell you that, Okay, Well, so how do 575 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 2: you get to using though, because we so, Yes, we 576 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: live in a universe of radio signals. They're electromagnetic waves 577 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 2: all over the place around us. But that's humans use 578 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: radio for specific purposes. They can take these waves and 579 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 2: encode information with them. 580 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this this comes from manipulating either the amplitude 581 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: or the frequency of those waves, modulating them in some way. Typically, 582 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: that's all we can encode information into them. So let's 583 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: say that you build a circuit containing a capacitor and 584 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: an inductor. These are two very basic circuit components. So 585 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: you build your circuit, you've got a capacitor and an 586 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: inductor involved in this. This will allow you to create 587 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: a sine wave that's just a very smooth, continuously varying wave. 588 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: It's you know, that kind of smooth up and down 589 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: like like your typical let's show ocean waves kind of 590 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: viewpoint and just nice little hills and valleys. Little saltwater crocodile, 591 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: yeah along in there, and the saltwater crocodile would be 592 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:07,239 Speaker 1: carrying information. So without any saltwater crocodiles, you're still not 593 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: transmitting anything meaningful. Right, It's just a sine wave, but 594 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: there's no information there. But if you modulate it, then 595 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: you can encode information in it. One way to do 596 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: that is with pulse modification. This is similar to what 597 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: I was talking about with that nine volt battery. This 598 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: just involves turning a signal on and off so that 599 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: when the signal's on, it might indicate a dot or 600 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: dash in morse code, so you're not Again, nothing within 601 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: the signal itself is necessarily meaningful. It's when you detect 602 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: it versus when you don't detect it that gives you information. 603 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: Then you have amplitude modification or our modulation I should say, 604 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: or AM That changes the peak to peak voltage of 605 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: the sine wave. And the way you do this with 606 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: AM radio is you start with a basic sin wave. 607 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: That's your that's your baseline. You take whatever you want 608 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: to transmit, whether it's you know, the cool hits of 609 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: the seventies or or some talk show hosts or whatever. 610 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: You take that that hard woman, yeah it could be 611 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: a hard woman. You take that signal and you overlay 612 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: that signal on top of the baseline sine wave to 613 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: modulate it. This changes the amplitude of that sine wave. 614 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: You get kind of a you know, a product from 615 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: the modulation of these two. By adding the two together, 616 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: you get a new frequency, a new wave. It's not 617 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: really it's the same frequency, it's different amplitude, but you 618 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: get a new wave with a different amplitude than both 619 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: of your basic ones. This is what you transmit to 620 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: a radio tower. You actually have to amplify it by 621 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: quite a lot. Obviously, the further you want this signal 622 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: to go, the more you have to amplify it, the 623 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: larger your antenna tends to be. And then the signal 624 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: goes out over the air and then people with the 625 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: receivers tuned to that frequency can pick it up, and 626 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: the signal gets converted back into something that a radio 627 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: can play, amplified again so that you can hear uhcy. 628 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: Frequency modulation is similar, except instead of changing the amplitude 629 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 1: like moduling the amplitude, you're moduling the frequency of the signal. 630 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: So again you start with a base sine wave for 631 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: the radio station. This is what's transmitting, whether any noise 632 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: is coming out of it or not, it's just this 633 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: base sine wave. Then you take on the the the 634 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: wave created from whatever you're trying to transmit hard woman, 635 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: and it changes the frequency. 636 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 2: Now, Jonathan, I wonder how exactly, if you're not a 637 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: radio expert, how does modulating the frequency not affect the 638 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 2: you know, the station you're listening to, because the station 639 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 2: you listen to the radio on is the frequency. Sure, 640 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: when there's a number in front of a radio station, 641 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 2: power ninety nine, that's ninety nine megahertz, right. 642 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: Right, nine nine point seven. Yeah. Well, part of it 643 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: is that each radio station really has a range like 644 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: there's it's you get a number that's the base frequency, 645 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: but there's a range within are surrounding that frequency that 646 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: allows for this modulation. The modulation doesn't change the frequency 647 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: so dramatically that it will bleed into another station. That's 648 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: why we have stations that have very defined frequencies, because 649 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: if you didn't have that, if they were too close together, 650 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: they would bleed over. Occasionally. You might have actually experienced 651 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: this if you're listening pathleearly to AM radio, because it 652 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: travels much further. If you start traveling around, you might 653 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: get two stations coming in simultaneously, because you might you 654 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: might move from the broadcast area of one station into 655 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: the broadcast range of a station that's got a similar 656 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: though not necessarily identical frequency, and then you're hearing both 657 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: at the same time. That's really disconcerting. If you transcend, 658 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: it could be like if you're if you're hearing are 659 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: Em and hard Woman, you might discover something interesting about yourself. 660 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: I don't think fire and brimstone sermon, and I don't 661 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: know some some good something about college sports. Yeah here 662 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: in the Southeast to be college sports and sermons. Yeah, 663 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: But from my experience of listening to AM radio, so 664 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: receiving antenna, what they do, Like we just talked about, you, 665 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: you take your transmitter, you send a signal out, it 666 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: gets amplified a couple of times, usually before it hits 667 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: the broadcast antenna and sends out over the airwaves. A 668 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: receiver does the same sort of thing, but it does 669 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: this in reverse. So antennas are tuned to specific electromagnetic frequencies. 670 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Usually they have elements that are a certain size, yes, 671 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 2: specified yep. 672 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: And so what will happen is they they resonate with 673 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: a certain range of frequencies and if those frequencies are present, 674 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: like if the antenna is present in the in the 675 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: within those frequencies, then it can send it. This creates 676 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: an electrical current that it can then amplify and convert 677 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: into sound so that we can hear it on our radios. 678 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: The the purpose of the amplifiers just really to boost 679 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: that signal. You're typically using like something along the lines 680 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: of a transformer to do that, and I've talked about 681 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: that in the past. So that means you can get 682 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: your talk radio or your grazed hits of the ramones 683 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: which lasts twelve minutes, not because they're so few, but 684 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: because romote songs are so short. Well, I hope you 685 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: enjoyed that discussion Joe McCormick and I had about transmitter hunting. 686 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: Remember that was just part one, So next week we 687 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: will conclude with part two of transmitter hunting. I hope 688 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: you're enjoying it. I also hope you are all well, 689 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: and I will talk to you again really soon. Tech 690 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,919 Speaker 1: Stuff is an iHeart Radio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 691 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 692 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.