1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: one thirty two. WHOA what are you doing? Can you 3 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: imagine the scene when I look at these photos? After 4 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: a an allegedly drunken night out at one of New 5 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: York City's finest restaurant and bars an heiress, an actual heiress, 6 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: yes they still exist, to an NFL empire, apparently gets 7 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: into a drunken brawl. You remember Cinderella had the glass slipper, Well, 8 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: this one has a glass clutch. It's it's like a 9 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: little those little opera pocketbooks, the little fancy pocketboo. Look 10 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: you take with you two parties and events. She has 11 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: been made of glass. I've actually managed to find a 12 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: picture of her at another event holding the glass clutch 13 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: and allegedly, amidst a stream of anti Semitic slurs, she 14 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: cracks a guy over the head with a glass clutch. 15 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: What the hey, there's photos of the alleged victim with 16 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: blood streaming down his face, and then she high tells it. 17 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: You can't see anything from her but elbows and tailhole. 18 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: That's right gone. I Nancy Grace and this is Crime Stories. 19 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. You know it's not 20 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: about the whop on the head. True, it was with 21 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: a glass object, although it be a fancy three D pocketbook. Um, 22 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: it's not about that. It's about poor man and rich 23 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: man justice. That's what it's about. Well does she get 24 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: away with cracking somebody on the head, blood streaming down 25 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: their head, anti Jewish slurs, hate talk, and then elbows 26 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: and tailhole down the street. What's going to happen? Thank 27 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: you for being with us, Joining me out of New 28 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: York veteran psychologist Karen Stark. Also with me forensics expert 29 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, professor at Jacksonville State University, and reporting 30 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: today Bobby Maxwell, Crime Stories investigative reporter, and of course 31 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: with me, Alan Duke and Jackie Howard here in the studio. 32 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: First to you, Bobby Max. Will's start at the beginning, 33 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: leave no detail out, tell me the whole thing. I've 34 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: got to hear the whole thing. Well, Nancy, Jacqueline Kent Cook, 35 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, the socialite, the football heiress, nine years 36 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: old old, was with her boyfriend. Hold on, let me 37 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: dissect every sentence, every word the football heiress. Now, isn't 38 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: it true that her grandfather was an owner of the 39 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: Washington Redskins. Is that correct? Actually, she's the daughter late 40 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: Jack kn't cook. Her dad had ownership steaks in the 41 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: Washington Redskins, the l A Lakers, and the l A Kings, 42 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: not just the Redskins, but the Lakers and the King's. Okay, 43 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about a lot of money. Okay, all right, 44 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: go ahead, let's just start with that. Now, she's with 45 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: her boyfriend, right, is that what you said. Yes, she's 46 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: with her boyfriend and a very nice Upper east Side 47 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: Italian restaurant in New York City. Uh caravaggio. Okaya, hold on, sorry, 48 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: sorry about this, Bobby Karen Stark. You and I know 49 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: what the Upper east Side means. Okay, the Upper west Side, 50 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: like looking right on the west upper West you're looking 51 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: down directly on Central Park, and those apartments go for 52 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, ten fifteen, twenty million dollars for a two 53 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: or three bedroom apartment in New York you buy your 54 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: apartment or rent. Now on the Upper east Side, which 55 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: is really an enclave of the wealthy. You know, um, 56 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: my place was slumming it totally, and but the Upper 57 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: east Side that ain't shabby. Here and start what about 58 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: this restaurant. I believe I know exactly which one it is. 59 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: It's right near Fifth Avenue, and um, it's well that 60 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: says it all right there on the avenue, Fifth Avenue. 61 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: There's a song about it the Easter parade. Remember Fifth 62 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: Avenue is like the height of luxury. Okay, go ahead. 63 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: And it's a wonderful Italian restaurant. Actually we were supposed 64 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: to be there New Year's Eve, and um, it just 65 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: is a place where everyone is seen and there to 66 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: be seen. In addition to the terrific food. Is it 67 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: like Elaine? Well not quite, but yes, because it's upscale 68 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: restaurant and people know about it and the food. Could 69 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: just tell me how much is a plate aposta at 70 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: this place? At least? Nancy, you know you can get 71 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: a box of spaghetti for nine nine cents? Did you 72 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: know that? I'm just putting it out there. Okay, but 73 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: not at Carava, not at Carvoggio. You sound so valley girl, 74 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: like all up in your fancy kneedsa Okay back to 75 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: Bobby Maxwell, I've set the scene. I'm at Carvaggio. Okay, 76 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: go ahead. And they finished their dinner, Jacqueline and her 77 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: boyfriend and I'd first like to know what they had, 78 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: but I know that that's getting crazy. But when I 79 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: was prosecuting cases, I would absolutely get the receipt because 80 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: I want to know and I want to tell that 81 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: jury what they had for their appetizer, How many drinks, 82 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: which is very important in this case, that they had, 83 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: What was their entree? Did they share a dessert? Did 84 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: they have after dinner coffee, you know, spiked with booze. 85 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: I need to hear it the whole thing. I want 86 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: to know if their dinner was. I want to know. 87 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: But anyway, go ahead, I'll get off the food for 88 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: a moment. Go ahead. I guess you can tell. I'm 89 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: back on weight watchers. Go ahead, all I want to 90 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: think about us what other people are eating? Go ahead, Bobby. 91 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: They first needed to the coach check Nancy, where they 92 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: were in line behind a family and um, maybe taking 93 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: a little bit too long for her good, and allegedly 94 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: said to the seventy seven year old woman who was 95 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: getting her coat, hurry up to Okay, what what white? White? Wait? 96 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I don't take very kindly to that. 97 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: My my paternal my dad's grandmother, Anna Pearl Judah, I'm 98 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: not taking very kindly to this at all. What now 99 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: the coach? Everybody's getting their coat and what happened? They 100 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: were apparently taking too long for Jacqueline's mind, and she 101 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: proceeded to say to the seventy seven year old woman, 102 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: hurry up, jew and when another let that sink in 103 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: for just one moment. You know, Karen Stark specifically want 104 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: you to weigh in on that. It's just it. Well, 105 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: of course I'm Jewish, so it's very painful. But any 106 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: kind of hate crime, Nancy, is just tying to heinous. 107 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: It's just I can't believe that somebody in this day 108 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: and age, even though she may be thinking it, would 109 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: actually come out and say something like that, and it 110 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: didn't stop and to a senior to a senior lady 111 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: who's standing there trying to get her little coat to 112 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: get outside. If someone had said something like that to 113 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: my mother, I am telling you, Karen start, they would 114 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: have got a knuckle sandwich. No mayo, I'm not kidding 115 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: to me, Nancy. When people who when they drink that much, 116 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, so their inhibitions are loosened, and this alcohol 117 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: is not a defense. Voluntary be cans. How many times 118 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: if I screamed that at you over the last since 119 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: nineteen whenever, nineties seven when we started courting, and forever. 120 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: But I'm not saying it is a defense. All I'm 121 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: saying is that what's really there, it's like mel Gibson, right, 122 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: it comes out and it's vicious. Speaking of mel Gibson, 123 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: take a listen to this, you know. But they're too 124 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: big and then okay, stupid like a Vegas Vegas, and 125 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: you go around stashing around in your tight clothes and stuff. 126 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: I won't stand for that anymore. I don't. I don't 127 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: want around it. I don't want to be there. I 128 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: don't work around in tight clothes. I say, you look 129 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: like and if you get raped by a pack of 130 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: your fault, all right, because you provoked it. You are 131 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: provocatively dressed all the time with your fake boots. You 132 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: feel you have to show up in tight out of 133 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: it and tight pants behind. And that gray thing today 134 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: was enough. I'm telling you. I'm just telling you the truth. 135 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: I don't like it. I don't want that woman. I 136 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: don't want to mel Gibson. And back to Manhattan and 137 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: they the expensive Italian restaurant. They were out, they were 138 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: at then what happens to Bobby Maximim, Well, one of 139 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: the members of the party, UM then said what did 140 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: you say? And Jacqueline Kent Cook responded, I said, hurry 141 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: up to you, We've got places to go, and um 142 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: the woman responded to her, we've all got played says 143 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: to go, and they had a few choice words. Well 144 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: that's interesting right there, Bobby Maxwell that she didn't respond 145 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: with a response slur, you know, like you know, she 146 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: just the the elderly lady just said, well, we all 147 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: have places to go, and totally ignored the fact that 148 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: this young lady, excuse me, this young woman, UM had 149 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: tried to hurl a Jewish slur. I mean, Joe's goot, Morgan. 150 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: I know you're a forensics expert, but I believe you 151 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: and I are very familiar with the fact that the Israelites, 152 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: he Brews, Jews have been mistreated. Says I can remember 153 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: all the way back to Moses, but demanding let my 154 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: people go. Remember it goes all the way back that 155 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: they have been tortured and mistreated, way back way back. Nancy, 156 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: and uh, you know quote my grandmother, my grandmother always said, uh, 157 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: you must be kind to the Jewish people because they 158 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: are the children of God. Now, whether or not, you know, uh, 159 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: you lean in a religious way or not, I've always 160 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: adhered to that. Uh. And plus it's just a fact 161 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: that you just want to be kind uh kind to people, uh, 162 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: simply out of for humanity's sake. It's a small planet. 163 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: We have to get along. Let me tell you something, 164 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott mortgage. What's that? It goes down from there? 165 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Bobby Maxwell. So the the old ladies getting 166 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: her coat, I mean, how cold is it, you know, 167 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: twenty degree eighteen degrees she's getting her coat there at 168 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: the hat check. And then what happens? And then that 169 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: confrontation happened and a few words were said. It moves 170 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: outside where the with an old lady? She didn't go out, 171 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: her father or her her son brother um went outside. Well, 172 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: thank goodness, her son stood up for his mom. All right. 173 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: So now it's at all the street. Okay, here, all 174 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: these rich people out fighting in the streets. Okay, a parent, 175 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: Go ahead. I can't just see the fur flying right now. 176 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: Well he was very calm about well as calm as 177 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: calm could be in that kind of situation, because he 178 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: said why would you say that to my family? Again, 179 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: he wasn't and he wasn't mentioning any slurs or anything 180 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: at the time. He just asked why she would do 181 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: that to a seventy seven year old woman. And at 182 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: that point is when the actual crime was committed, because 183 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: jack one Kent Cook smashed her designer purse or glass 184 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: designer purse into habercorn the victim's head. M Okay, wait, 185 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: just so happened? Believe it or not? Have the video listen. 186 00:12:43,080 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm tous him on five? Then right, come here, stop, 187 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: come here, stop you doing kidding me? What are you doing? 188 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: Cops dot stop? Well, apparently you don't want to get 189 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: in between a rich, drunk lady and her three hundred 190 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: dollar glass purse. 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Today Nancy's Beats dot Com 218 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: today super Beats, thank you for being our partner today 219 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: on Sirius x two, after a an allegedly drunken night 220 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: out at one of New York City's finest restaurant and bars, 221 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: an heiress to an NFL empire, apparently gets into a 222 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: drunken brawl. Allegedly, I missed a stream of anti Semitic slurs. 223 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: What happened then, Bobby Maxwell? I mean, I just heard 224 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: a lot of cursing in bleeps, and I see her, 225 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: the heiress, the NFL heiress, getting up off the ground 226 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: and running and screaming something about self defense as the 227 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: guy is, you know, now sitting on the sidewalk with 228 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: blood gushing from his head. Yeah, you know, according to 229 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: the video, which was taken by the victim's daughter, And 230 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: it's a good thing there was, because it's clear that 231 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: she's trying to pull Um the victim down on her 232 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: and her boyfriend's then yelling, you know, things like it 233 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: was his fault that she fell and hit her. Look 234 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: like she was hit her head against the car um. 235 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: So they were trying to turn this whole situation around 236 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: on the Habercorn family. Well, it didn't help any that 237 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: the woman uh states that she wasn't even out on 238 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: New Year's Eve, that she had a splint on her feet, 239 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: the splint on her finger was the result of slamming 240 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: her hand in a cab door. Now that's quite the 241 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: coinkie dink that she's on this video on New Year's even. 242 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean even I a thousand miles awake until it's her, 243 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: and she also happens to have her finger in a splint. Um. 244 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, Joseph Scott Morgan about this is 245 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: that she's obviously a millionaire, and I'm wondering if she's 246 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: going to skate off scott free for this. But in 247 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: your line of work, to slam somebody over the head 248 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: with glass, you can kill someone that way, Yeah, yeah 249 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: you can. Uh. And in addition to that, uh, let's 250 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: just looking at the photos from this is it is 251 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: rather horrific. This uh, this pocket book that you had mentioned. 252 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: I'd been looking at it last night. It's got very 253 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: very uh tight angles on the edges, and uh, she 254 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: would have generated what's referred to as blunt force trauma. 255 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: And if this thing is in fact made out of glass, 256 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: which it looks to be if it shattered, you can 257 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: get a little satellite injuries as well. And this guy's 258 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: got quite a bit of blood. Uh that's coming off 259 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: of the crown of his head. So she split his 260 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: head open pretty well. I'd be interested in how many 261 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: stitches he had. Uh. One more thing. Um, you know, 262 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: money obviously, uh can't buy good manners, that's for sure. 263 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: You're still the banner of my crime online article money 264 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: can't buy class Truer words were never spoken. Now let's 265 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: move forward. Bobby Maxwell was telling us, and immediately the 266 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: finger pointing starts, and she, the NFL heiress, begins to 267 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: blame the alleged victim in this case, Karen Stark, why 268 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: is that? And and claiming she wasn't there. She's on video, Karen, 269 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: she's being defensive, Nancy. You know, she's she's saying I 270 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: wasn't there, And she's trying to deny that it really happened, 271 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: or that she objectified someone and used anti Semitic slurs. Yeah, 272 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: she's just defending into the accusation. But and even though 273 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: it's on even though it's on video, and that's that's 274 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: called denial. Remember, she was of course released on her 275 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: own recognizant on Thursday, she's do you back in court 276 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: with an order of protection in place requiring her to 277 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: stay away from her alleged victim. Now again, this is 278 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: the daughter of Jack Kent Cook, who had ownership in 279 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: the Washington Redskins, the l A Lakers, and the l. A. 280 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: King's I'm looking at her now as she's been described 281 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: as emotionless in Manhattan criminal Court in the last hours 282 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: after having been arrested for allegedly assaulting this lawyer. Now, 283 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: she was not, of course, charged with hate talk on 284 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: his seventy seven year old mother, but she stands accused 285 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: of attacking Matthew Habercorn outside a Manhattan restaurant. Caravaggio, the 286 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: lawyer who us with his family in Redwood City, claims 287 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: all the troubles started when his mother was getting her 288 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: coat after their meal. Um, it went on and on, 289 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: and he confronted her about what she had said to 290 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: his mom outside the restaurant, and that is when she 291 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: allegedly bashes him in the head with a mirrored Lulu 292 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: Guinness clutch. Okay, now this is all according to the 293 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: n y p D. Boy, what a mouthful she gave him. 294 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: You called me and effing you called me an effing 295 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: b you call me a c. Cook can be heard 296 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: shouting all this in the video. Let's talk about her 297 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: in court. Okay, this is after all the blood, after 298 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: all the arrest. She appears in court. What happened in 299 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: court to Bobby Maxwell, Crime Stories investigative reporter, what happened, Well, 300 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: she was her, as you said, very calm about it 301 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: and and claimed that he was the one that went 302 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: to her. He was started the altercation. She looks extremely emotionless. 303 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Care and start your the shrink. Well, 304 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: that kind of a flat affect means that she's whatever 305 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: is going on with her. I'm imagining that this is 306 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: how she comes across that. You know, she internalizes it. 307 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: Maybe that's why if she drinks too much, it all 308 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: comes out. So she's keeping her face very neutral and 309 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: not allowing anyone to know that she has any kind 310 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: of an emotional response to this. At the time of 311 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: her father's death, she was left with a five million 312 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: dollar trust. At age twenty one, payments go went to 313 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars at thirty five. She receives annual 314 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: sums of eight per cent of the trust currently valued 315 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: at over six million dollars. Well, of course they're all 316 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: seeing each other over the money. But in court, uh, 317 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: she did not, she denied, apparently um and told police 318 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: this was not her fault. When she was stopped by 319 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: the police after leaving a diner without paying her bill once, 320 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: according to Boston dot Com, she started her car despite 321 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: cops yelling at her not to turn on the vehicle 322 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: prior to getting in the car because she couldn't find 323 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: a taxi cook quote stepped into the street, lifted her skirt, 324 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: and exposed her rear into the cops. Um. When being 325 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: booked on that incident, she asked everyone do they know 326 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: where her father was and threatened to have their badge 327 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: of strips. Studying one billion dollars goes a long way. 328 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Joe Scott, how many times have 329 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: I heard I'll have your badge for this, Joe Scott? 330 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: That never it typically never works. Yeah, yeah, you you 331 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: you know, people say you don't know who I know. Uh, well, 332 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, for the average police officers, the average police 333 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: officers bringing home you know, maybe uh forty five dollars 334 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: per year, I can tell you, uh, they probably don't 335 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: know who she knows. But one thing that they do 336 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: know is that they know a jerk when they come 337 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: across one. Because and this is this is repeated over 338 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: and over and over again. This goes to a bigger 339 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: issue in our society, Nancy. You know, you look at 340 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 1: everything that's going on in entertainment and media and all 341 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: these other places where people think that they can just 342 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: because they have power and they have money, they can 343 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: just run over anybody that they want to. Sometimes the 344 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: chickens come home to roost, and in this in this case, 345 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: I hope that they make an example out of her. Well, 346 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: is everybody sitting down for this one? You might need 347 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: to lay down because now the millionaire heiress Jacqueline Kent 348 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: Cook is cross suing. She's actually suing the alleged victim, 349 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: and in court held up her swollen right ring finger, 350 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: as her lawyer said the digit was broken in the 351 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: quote scuffle. She has actually filed a cross complaint against 352 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: the man she allegedly bashed in the head with a 353 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: three dollar glass clutch um. The lawyer also claimed she 354 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: did not make an anti Semitic remark and was only 355 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: defending herself when Habricorn pursued her outside. Okay, Now, who 356 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: are you going to believe in court? As I always 357 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: tell juries, Joe Scott Morgan, you are the sole judge 358 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: of credibility, not me, not the judge, not the defense. You, you, 359 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: the jury, have to decide who's telling the truth here? 360 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: Are you gonna believe her who, according to Boston dot Com, 361 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: lifted her skirt and shot a moon at the cops 362 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: and threatened to take their badges, Or a seventy seven 363 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: year old lady trying to get her hat and coat 364 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: at the check back coach check You know it's it's 365 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: going to clearly be he says, She say, but only 366 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: one person ended up bloody and bashed in the head. 367 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you can't argue about that. No, no, you can't. 368 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, when this thing 369 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: is finally litigated, if it goes into a civil civil venue, 370 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: which you know, I don't know how far the d 371 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: A will take this from a criminal perspective, but from 372 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: a civil venue, it all comes you know, who who's 373 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: got the bigger who's got the largest purse here no 374 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: pun intended, Who's got the most money? Who can you 375 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: know kind of make this and it's interesting that she 376 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: would counter through these people as a result of this, 377 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: her poor little finger got broken, will prove that it 378 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: got broken, and they'll parade experts up there and say that, 379 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: oh no, it was in fact broken, and it's it's 380 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: you know, uh, it's ridiculous. Uh. To this point, what 381 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: you have here is just at the end of the day, 382 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: you have somebody it has no manners, does not respect 383 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: other people, and has probably always gotten her word. Thomas said. 384 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: She also went to confront Cook and the socialite told her, 385 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: why don't you use your money to get a nose job? Okay, 386 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: Karen Stark. Yet another attack, a verbal attack, not and 387 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: and again there's anti Semitism involved in that slur. And 388 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: from what I was reading that, her boyfriend also said 389 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: to the daughters that were there of this gentleman, happy 390 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: but mitzvah okay out of nowhere. You know, I don't 391 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: get the hatred. But what I'm concerned I can't. I 392 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: can't cure that. But in court, I know that prosecutors 393 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: can send this woman to jail. I want to pause 394 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: and thank our partners right now, in addition to you 395 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: guys joining us across the air waves and awesome guests 396 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: joining me today legal Zoom. What will your story be 397 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand eighteen? Now the holiday rushes over, legal 398 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: Zoom can help you make this a memorable year before 399 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: all the distractions take hold. Make this the year you 400 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: finally get serious about launching and running your own business. 401 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: Rest easier knowing your family's future squared away with the 402 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: right estate plan. Legal zoom has been helping people like 403 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: us take care of dreams and responsibilities over sixteen years. 404 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: They're not a law firm, but they've got the resources 405 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: to keep you on the right path, including advice from 406 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: a nationwide network of independent lawyers all at your fingertips. 407 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: Whether you want to take your business to the next 408 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: level or take control of your family's future with an 409 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: estate plan, legal Zoom plugs right into your life so 410 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: you can take care of things that matter most. Get 411 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: off to a strong star, aren't in two thousand and 412 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: eighteen at legal zoom dot com. Do it today and 413 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: get special savings when you enter in a n C 414 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: Y code Nancy and the promo box at checkout legal zoom. 415 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: Where life meets legal legal Zoom. Thank you. Just before midnight, 416 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: neighbors down the street heard gun shots. I heard that 417 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: side before, you know, a cop down here, cot down there, 418 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: lined up around the street. He spoke, you know, always smiling, 419 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 1: you know, not a biling kid or anything like that. 420 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: I woke up and I thought it was fireworks. Been 421 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: thinking about it. I don't think our fireworks up me up. 422 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: I think it was gun shots that woke me up. 423 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: A New Year's ad teen murder rampage? What what? Okay? 424 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: You know, when I was still a teen, we lived 425 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere, and for our excitements, 426 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: as there was nowhere to go and nothing to do, 427 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: we would go on the front porch and beat pots 428 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: and pans to beat away the old year and throw 429 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: pennies now to welcome the new year. And my poor 430 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: children are now being subjected to the same ritual you're 431 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: see because you know, I couldn't drive at fourteen fifteen, 432 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: I had nowhere to go. Okay. My parents didn't drink, 433 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: so there was although my father was not afraid of 434 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: a cocktail. Don't tell my mom, but I mean they 435 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: would stay in with us. There wasn't nowhere to go 436 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: and nothing to do, so we had to make our 437 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: own excitement. Okay, we only got one shadow and there 438 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: was no New Year's Eve ball dropping excitement going on. 439 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: But how did this suddenly turn into New Year's Eve 440 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: teen murder rampage? I'm focusing right now along my all 441 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: star panel on two teens, one that kills and murders 442 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: his family and the other that murders her boyfriend and 443 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: robs him. What I mean? Larry Mayher is joining me 444 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: Crime Stories contributing reporter about a New Year's Eve teen 445 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: murder mascert. Let's let's start with the young man, a 446 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: teen boy that has referred to as quote a nice 447 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: kid by everybody that knows him, that wipes out his 448 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: family on New Year's Eve? What happened? Larry? According to 449 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: police in Long Branch, New Jersey, the sixteen year old 450 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: took a semi automatic assault style rifle and open fire 451 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: inside their house. And stop stop stop right there. Sorry. Sorry, Now, 452 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: Alan can tell you it's very hard for me to 453 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: let a man specifically get a whole sentence in. But 454 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: wait a minute, did you just say a sixteen year 455 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: old has an assault rifle? How did that happen? Let's 456 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: just start with that, Okay, how did he get an 457 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: assault rifle? Police say, he had access to it because 458 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,479 Speaker 1: it was the legal weapon of someone in his family. 459 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: Go ahead in the home, okay. According to police, he 460 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: used the assault rifle to kill his father, his mother, 461 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: his sister, and a family friend. To other members of 462 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: the family, and a third person who was also a 463 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: family friend, managed to get out of the house while 464 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: the shooting was underway. This all happened just minutes before 465 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: midnight on the night of New Year's Eve. I just 466 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: don't understand it. I don't understand it. So that's a total. 467 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: We'll see the parents, the friend, two other members of 468 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: the family. How many people in all did he murder? 469 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: Four people were killed, three people escaped. Good crazy? This 470 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: teen boy guns down his family just moments before the 471 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: ball drops before midnight. Is struck to Ashley Willcott, lawyer 472 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: and child advocate. He's sixteen years old. But murder much 473 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: less mass murder which equals more than one body, I 474 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: mean two bodies, and you're into statutory mass murder. That 475 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: is one of the seven deadlies, or as we call them, 476 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: the designated felonies by which you are almost automatically bound 477 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: over to be treated as an adult. Let me see 478 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: if I can remember them there's murder, rape, aggravated assault, 479 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: armed robbery, um arson, I'm missing too. Let's see here, 480 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: would it be child moless station? I'm missing one. What 481 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: could it be? What? Ashley? I couldn't remember if manslaughter 482 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: was one of that later, I'm missing one of the 483 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: seven designated seven deadlies. Anyway, I know this is one 484 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: of them. Now, how does it work, Ashley? When eighteen 485 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: boy commits one of the designated felonies under which you 486 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: get tried as an adult, it's called a bind over process, 487 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: that's right. So um, the prosecutor can determine whether or 488 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: not they want to ask that the child be treated 489 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: as an adult in the adult criminal system or be 490 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: allowed to be charged as a juvenile in the juvenile 491 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: court UH system for delinquent acts, and honestly, with murder charges, 492 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: I have never seen a child not treated as an 493 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: adult in the criminal system, even if the child has 494 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: special needs. Frequently, most likely they are going to charge 495 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: that child as an adult. It's murder. In this case, 496 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: there are extenuating circumstances that that will be to the 497 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: boy's benefits. His name is Scott Kellogi and he's referred 498 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: to by everyone that knew him prior to this as 499 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: a quote nice kid. He is autistic, is he not? 500 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: Ja Leis Mitchell. Yes, he had learning disabilities and for 501 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: a Kim Nancy, he was home schooled. So here you 502 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: have a sixteen year old with learning disabilities who may 503 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: be struggling. Apparently he was teethed at school translate bullied 504 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: at school. And he has an older sister who was 505 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: absolutely stunning and you can just tell she's very popular 506 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: just by looking at her. She looks like something out 507 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: of a you know, a cheerleading movie. And um, so 508 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: he's at home with his mother, who is his mother 509 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: and his teacher in a sense because he was being 510 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: home school for a time, and you know, sixteen is 511 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: a very turbulent time, the hormones, the sense of rebellion, 512 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: and then you add in a semi automatic assault rifle, 513 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: a line around the house. It's a prescription for disaster. 514 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happens. Let me go to Dr 515 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: Patricia Sauner, psychologist. I would need to know, I guess 516 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,240 Speaker 1: his level of functioning. I mean, I've seen a photo 517 00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: of him in a graduation cap and gown. I would 518 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: need to know what level where he was under the 519 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: spectrum the umbrella of autism. Was it a mild case 520 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: of Aspergers or was it profoundily autistic? What difference would 521 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: that meg? Dr Patricia Saunders such a great point. There's 522 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: a world of difference between mild Aspergers and fully autistic 523 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: um adolescent. The fully autistic adolescent is pretty much out 524 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: of touch with reality and only response to their inner 525 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: stimuli and trying to suppress their feelings of anxiety and anger. UH. 526 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: High functioning Aspergers is often kids who do reasonably well 527 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 1: in school. They have a lot of problems socially. They 528 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: tend not to have friends, who tend to be isolated 529 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: because they don't have the social skills and they can't 530 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: recuse some other people. What they both have in come 531 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: and is problems with impulse. And so you take the 532 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: brew that James described that lessons before and you've got 533 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: a potential for dynamite. Just wonder how it will factor in. 534 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, lawyer and child advocate and founder of child 535 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: crime watch dot com on Facebook. Ashley, how will this 536 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: factor into the decision as to whether this teen boy 537 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: is going to be treated as an adult? Now, remember 538 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: if he's treated as an adult, he sentenced as an adult, 539 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: but he has kept in a juvenile facility until he's 540 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: twenty one. That's right. So keep in mind that the 541 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: whole goal and aim of juvenile court dealing with children 542 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: as rehabilitation. So it's not punitive in nature. It's not 543 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: intended to be punitive in nature and penalize the child 544 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: for committing a crime. Instead, it is meant to be 545 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: real abilitative. And so I think one of the important 546 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: factors is in New Jersey, what does it mean in 547 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: terms of what services are available to help treat this 548 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 1: child with his specific special needs and perhaps rehabilitate. Having 549 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: said that, he'll remain in jail. And so it does 550 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: depend what is the adult system offer versus the juvenile 551 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: system offer in that particular state. But Vincent Hill, private investigator, 552 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: I mean to have the intent to go get a 553 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: Sydney automatic assault rifle pointed, mow down your family, wound others. 554 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: That is a specific intent, Vincent. Yeah, Nancy is very specific. 555 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: And we're talking four victims and possibly two others that 556 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: escape the residents. So you may be able to argue 557 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: one shot to one family member was impulsive, but at 558 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: some point I'm sure prosecutors are going to argue that 559 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: he had every opportunity to stop what he was doing 560 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: because he killed four of his family, well, three family 561 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: members and a close friend to the family. So the 562 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: intent was there to do exactly what he did, and 563 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: it was very tragic, especially the way it ended the 564 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: year for the family. Well, this is what we know. 565 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: The very latest is that the judge has ordered the 566 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 1: Cologi case uh in the Long Beach shootings to remain close. 567 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: That's in Mommouth County, New Jersey. This is what we 568 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: know right now regarding a teen that goes on a 569 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: New Year's Eve murder rampage and wipes out his family. 570 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: But to his defense, if you look at what his 571 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: brother writes, his own brother, his heartbroken brother of this 572 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: New Jersey team who allegedly shoots and kills his parents, sister, 573 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: and family friend and New Year's even massacre, wrote a 574 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: heart breaking social media message to honor them. Collogi's little brother, 575 00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: Scott has been accused of opening fire on his family 576 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: just before the New Year was ushered in. The brother 577 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: says quote, give the ones you love an extra kiss 578 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: or tell them I love you. Oh oh man, I'm 579 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: moving now. From that to our next New Year's Eve 580 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: teen murder massacre and the case of a girl, Yvaughne Ramirez, 581 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: who murders and robs her boyfriend just before the ball drops. 582 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: Larry May Her Crime Stories investigative reporter, What happened? This 583 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: is also a tangled case in that Van Raquel Ramirez 584 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: has told two vastly different stories about what happened to 585 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: her boyfriend, Josh McKinney. We know that it took place 586 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: in a place called Bayport, Texas, which is part of 587 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: the Port of Houston, is an industrial area. Took place 588 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: on a street at about four thirty in the morning. 589 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: A witness reported seeing McKitty, the boyfriend, holding Ramirez, the girlfriend, 590 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: in a headlock, with a gun pointed at her head, 591 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: and then a few minutes later hearing gun shots and 592 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: McKinney was killed by the gunshots. Ramirez told police initially 593 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: that he dropped his gun, it went off and shot him. 594 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: Then she said they were in a struggle and he 595 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: had the gun pointed at her. She managed to take 596 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: a different gun away from him and shoot him with 597 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: it in self defense. This is all compounded by what problem, 598 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: what's the other story? Other story? Is this was a 599 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: robbery attempt that Ramirez had told McKinny she had stolen 600 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: his gun collection and wanted two thousand dollars to get 601 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: it back. And then the altered Paian erupted on the 602 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: street and he ended up dead. Um. The two very 603 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: different stories make it a little difficult for investigators to 604 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: sort out what happened. They have one. I winness, excuse me, 605 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: excuse me. I'm just staring right now at the photo 606 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: of the defendant, this teen girl with the two tongue piercings. Um, 607 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,320 Speaker 1: it's strategically located across the tattoos on her chest, which 608 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: end in a rose between her breasts. Okay, Um, not judging, 609 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: not judging. It's gonna take all I can do, Ashley Willcott. 610 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: I don't even argue with the twins when they do 611 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: this or that wrong. I'm saving that for um smoking drugs, 612 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:55,240 Speaker 1: alcohol and tattoos. I'm saving all my fighting for that. Okay, Ashley. 613 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: Do you see these photos of the of the alleged killer, 614 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: which is beautiful? Get her gorgeous. She's beautiful, beautiful, she 615 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: looks like a model. Want to hang out with when 616 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: they're older? Right? Oh? No, not exactly, but I will 617 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: say that she's physically beautiful, which apparently is very deceiving. Now, 618 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: Larry Mayheer has told us there's two sides to this, 619 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: Jane Lls Mitchell, what's the other side? Well, I think 620 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: this is a case of two young people. First of all, 621 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: there were drugs involved. She told investigators that they were 622 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,399 Speaker 1: getting high together. It's four thirty in the morning, so 623 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: nobody should be out or as somebody said, what happens 624 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: after midnight on the street is never good. And wait 625 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute, you've totally you've totally twisted 626 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: what I told Jerrys. You stole that from me. Jane Lliz, 627 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: I'm calling you out. That's felony theft, that's grand larceny. 628 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: What I would tell juries is nothing good happens after midnight, 629 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: and you've totally bastardized it. I don't know what you 630 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: just said, but can you at least go back to 631 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,880 Speaker 1: the pure But nothing good happens after midnight? Did you 632 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,879 Speaker 1: say this was at four thirty in the morning. Yes, uh, 633 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,720 Speaker 1: And there was a struggle on the street involving guns. 634 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: So you have a young woman who is obviously up 635 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: to no good. Either way her scheme is somehow, um, 636 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: not just getting together with a young man to have 637 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 1: a good time. There's a plot there and um, apparently 638 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,359 Speaker 1: she was demanding two thousand dollars from this young man 639 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: to get if he wanted to get his guns back. 640 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,879 Speaker 1: And so that's when the encounter turned very violent and 641 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: he had put her. He put her in the Headlah 642 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: blah blah, that's what she's saying. Dr Patricia Saunders. Have 643 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: you ever noticed that you can have a perfectly nice 644 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: person and then they get tangled up with the wrong 645 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: man or woman and everything goes sideways. I mean, this 646 00:43:54,719 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 1: kid that was killed, this boy um had or do 647 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: you plan to join the Marines after graduating from college? Uh? 648 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: Somebody says, quote, he's such a sweet guy and so 649 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: well mannered, always saying thank you, m please. He was 650 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 1: such a nice boy. Now that's one quote about him. 651 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: I'm trying to reconcile that with some photos he's posted 652 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: online and this girl that he took up with. What 653 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: do you think, pat Saunders? Can it be you're this 654 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: great person and then you get poisoned by somebody else? Oh, 655 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: he had to have been complicit in some way. One 656 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: story that's out there is that they were planning some 657 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,799 Speaker 1: kind of robbery. So this is really a mess in 658 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: terms of what really happened. What you said earlier can 659 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: be especially for young people and adolescents that they get 660 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 1: mixed up with the wrong people. I'm no fan of 661 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 1: tattoos and piercings myself, Nancy. Wait wait, whoa wait wait, 662 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: wait whoa right there, Dr Patricia Saunders, correct me if 663 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 1: I'm wrong. But didn't I run into you on the 664 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: East Side one time and you're with your husband and 665 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: you had a bunch of dogs you were walking, Jane, 666 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: You'll love to hear that. And wasn't your husband very 667 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: heavily tattooed? I have a tattoo, but it's not okay, 668 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: So back to your husband, is it wasn't your husband 669 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: very heavily tattooed? From military? Yes? Okay? So now what 670 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: were you saying about not being a fan of tattoos? Well, blessed. 671 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 1: I will never forget. I will never forget. I'll never 672 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: forget what I did dancing with the Stars. And you 673 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: guys all know my my executive producer and my bestie 674 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 1: hunt Dean from h Chillen went out to Dancing with 675 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: the Stars that we were doing our evening show from 676 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: out there, and everybody on the cast of Dancing with 677 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: the Stars had a tattoo. One day he comes and 678 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: he's got a tattoo. I said, Dean, have you lost 679 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: your mind? And I forgot what. I just could not said, 680 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: what does that even say? And as I remember some 681 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 1: mishmash of like his initials and his wife's initials, I 682 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: don't even know what it was or cross, I don't 683 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 1: know what it was. Well, he didn't even tell his wife. Okay, 684 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: so he goes flies home. I was out there and 685 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: I had my husband and my children with me, and 686 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,839 Speaker 1: so he would fly home and then he would come back, 687 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: you know, after the weekend. He came back. Of course 688 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 1: his wife was furious. So what did he do? He 689 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: ran out and got another tattoo about like forgiveness and 690 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,800 Speaker 1: all that quote out of the Bible of some obscure 691 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,320 Speaker 1: quite like you have totally. Yeah, he totally had lost 692 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,320 Speaker 1: his mind. And from now and he wears long sleeves. 693 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean, so there you go, and Dr Pat Saunders 694 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,399 Speaker 1: denying her love for tattoos. Pat, can I do ask 695 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,800 Speaker 1: you if you dare tell me what what is your tattoo? 696 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: I want to know. Is it like a rose at 697 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 1: the at your your booty? Crack? No, and it would 698 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: never do that. It's a pegasus on my arm, a 699 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: flying horse. Okay, that's so much classier. Okay, thank you 700 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,400 Speaker 1: for letting me have all my fun as we're talking 701 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: about the massacre. Bottom line, what's going to happen with 702 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,960 Speaker 1: this girl, Larry Mayheer? What what's the standing right now? 703 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: What is she charged with? Is she charged? What's happening? 704 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 1: She is charged with murder. She is being held uh 705 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,400 Speaker 1: in lieu of fifty thou dollars bail. She's at last 706 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: report in the hospital because during this altercation she was 707 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: also shot um and so she has been treated for 708 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: a gunshot wound and is hospitalized at a Houston Harris 709 00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 1: County jail. And Um. Unlike the shooter at in New Jersey, 710 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,239 Speaker 1: she's an adult. She's nineteen. The victim was also nineteen. 711 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,279 Speaker 1: I can just only imagine what the victim's parents are 712 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,319 Speaker 1: going through right now. They probably had no idea what 713 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 1: he was out doing at that time. And now, I mean, 714 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what his personality was. I just know 715 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: he was a young boy Joshua McKinney with plans to 716 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: head into the Marines after college, and now he's dead 717 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: over what. Larry may Her, Jane Villez Mitchell of Jane 718 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: Unchained dot com. Dr Patricia Saunders, psychologist, joining me from Manhattan. 719 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,840 Speaker 1: Vincent hill Renow, I'm private an investigator. Ashley Wilcot, founder 720 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: of child Crime watch dot com on Facebook, Alan and Jackie, 721 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us as we 722 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 1: watch these cases unfold. Nancy Grace crimed story signing off, 723 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: good Bye friend,