1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff mob 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: never told you. My family used to have this tradition 3 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: that we would go see a movie every Christmas Eve, 4 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: and it was one of my favorite things. Every year, 5 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: we rotated between my siblings on who got to pick 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: the movie, my siblings and my cousins. And I particularly 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: remember one year when my older brother chose star Trek Nemesis, 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: even though he knew I was terrified of aliens. That's 9 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: probably why he chose it. Let's be real, so I 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: spent that night wide awake out of fear instead of 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: out of excitement for Santa, as was the norm. As 12 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: comes to a close and we all start taking stock 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 1: of the year, here's a box office movie fact for you. 14 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: People like and we'll pay for movie starring women. I know, 15 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: it's a shocker. According to a study conducted by Creative 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: Artist Agency and Shift seven, which is a tech company, 17 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: it analyzed the three fifty top grossing films released in 18 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: the period from January to December. Turns out, movies with 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: a woman credited it in the lead role made more 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: money worldwide, which if you're wondering, These movies comprised of 21 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: one hundred and five out of the three fifty total examined. 22 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: Also of note movies that passed the Bechdel test, which is, 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: in case you didn't know, um, one more than one 24 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: female character to these female characters have a conversation, and 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: three not about men. Uh. These movies that passed the 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: test made more money than the movies that didn't pass 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: the test, and of the movie studied did not pass. 28 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: By the way, every single movie that passed the one 29 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: billion dollar goal post passed the Bechdel test. It goes 30 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: to show that phrase we commonly hear that people won't 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: pay to see movies with women in the lead roles 32 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: isn't true. Still, though, we have a lot more work 33 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 1: to do when it comes to inclusion. In fact, women 34 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: in lead roles and LGBTQ representation went down. In this 35 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: classic episode, we take a look at the evolution of 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: the female action hero from highly sexualized just still probably sexualized, 37 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: but maybe not as much. Enjoy Welcome to Stuff Mom 38 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: Never told You from how stupp works dot com. Hello, 39 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, 40 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: and the Hunger Game sequel, Catching Fire is soon coming 41 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: out and we have action heroines on the brain. As 42 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: a result, we do. Yeah, I mean, thanks to the 43 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: awesome Jennifer Lawrence, who I just kind of always wish 44 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: that I were best friends with her. It got us 45 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: thinking about some other amazing women who've been in film 46 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: and kind of where the female action hero or action 47 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: character fits into the genre. Yeah. So we've got a 48 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: lot to talk about, and we gotta first kick things 49 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: off with Pam Greer because even though she was largely 50 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: in a lot of black exploitation films, sexploitation films, uh, 51 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: she is Hollywood's first female action star, right. She kicks 52 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: so much but in those movies from the seventies, and 53 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: and she knows it because in her words from Pam Greer, 54 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: she says, I'm going to make movies the way I 55 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: see fit. No threatless, mindless women, no dumb situations. I 56 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: know I have to go slow, but I'm going to 57 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: sneak up on them little by little, and then I'm 58 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: going to create a monster. This girl isn't just another 59 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: body for their cameras. And I mean she she has 60 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: a great body, She's an incredibly beautiful woman. She is 61 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, when you talk about Pam Greer or when 62 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: you read about Pam Greer, it almost can't be separated 63 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: from what she looks like, which is actually the same 64 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: for actually most other female action stars period. Yeah, and 65 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: in Ricky Schubert's The Female Hero in Action Cinema from 66 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy to two thousand and six, she refers to 67 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: Greer first of all as the godmother of action films 68 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: and traces the timeline of Pam Greer's ascent. And she 69 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: started out in nineteen seventy one in a women in 70 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: prison film. This would be one of those exploitation kinds 71 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: of films, Uh really that just depict women in scant 72 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: clothing who are all in prison together and all sorts 73 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: of hijink, sexual and otherwise. And Sue and she did 74 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: a couple of these kinds of films and made such 75 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: a big impression that in nineteen seventy three, just a 76 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: couple of years later, she stars in ca Fee And 77 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: the tag line of that is She's the godmother of 78 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: them all, the baddest one chick hit squad that ever 79 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: hit town. And while yes, obviously Coffee, as you you 80 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: might assume from the title, is absolutely a black exploitation film, 81 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: it was nevertheless hailed by Hollywood because we have this 82 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: female action lead. I love taglines on these movie posters 83 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: because they go on for several paragraphs that seems like 84 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: just describing exactly how kick buttish these women are. Anyway, 85 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: So after she starting Coffee, Um, that made her the 86 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: number one action lead for women, and that led to 87 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: nine Foxy Brown and n Sheba Baby and then I 88 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: mean she didn't quit. She was in the movie Jackie Brown. Yeah, 89 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: that Quentin Tarantino film kind of revived her image as 90 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: that iconic female action lead. And in these film almes, 91 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: even though there's a lot of problematic stuff going on 92 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: in terms of racial stereotypes and misogyny, and clearly that 93 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: the exploitation of Pam Grier's amazing body. Um, there's a 94 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: lot of play going on in terms of anxiety over 95 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: masculinity and male sexual performance in Greer's films. One thing 96 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: that Hubert points out is how often she ends up shooting, kicking, 97 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 1: or punching men in the genitals, and she later says, 98 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: Pam Grier does that quote, we were making fun of men, 99 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: making fun of us and saying back at you. Yeah. 100 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: A lot of it circles around to the woman. The 101 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: female lead, Pam Greer kind of emasculating the male characters 102 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: out of revenge. Usually a lot of these are revenge flicks. 103 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: So either her, her sister, or her father or someone 104 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: in her family has been harmed in some way, usually 105 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: by like a pamper, a drug dealer, and so she's 106 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: this kind of quote unquote crazy, a woman out for 107 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: revenge on all of these men and uh. In a 108 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: Guardian interview, she said that as a strong woman, I 109 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: was seen as a threat. There was a fear that 110 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: women would mimic me in real life. I remember certain 111 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: people saying, oh, she's taking our jobs, she's castrating men. 112 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: As far as I was concerned, I thought, we don't 113 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: need to walk behind you, we should walk beside you. 114 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, it's just like this, this powerful woman 115 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: who's more than powerful, she's dangerous, was seen as a 116 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: threat on screen and off. Yeah. And even though it 117 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: might seem like Pam Greer would be the victim of 118 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: the camera lens in this sense, being being in these 119 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: exploitative films, but in a lot of ways, there were 120 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: always strands of empowerment that were intertwined with this exploitation 121 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: and one thing that's pointed out I think this was 122 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: in an article from in the Week by Monica Bartsiel 123 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: talking about how race was never downplayed, nor her independence, 124 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: but at the same time, her sexuality and her body. Obviously, 125 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: we're always at the forefront of these films, and those 126 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: two issues of sexuality and the female body is something 127 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: that is still being talked about decades later in terms 128 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: of where are women in action films, or more where 129 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: are female action leads, because there are plenty of women 130 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: in action films who are dancels in distress being saved, right, 131 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 1: I mean, there is a lot of back and forth 132 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: about the positives and negatives of highlighting the body. But 133 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: we'll get to that in a little bit. And right now, 134 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: let's look at why Greer's career is so significant as 135 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: that powerhouse action character. Sociologist Katherine Gilpatrick examined female action 136 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: heroes and gender stereotypes in study. She looked at one 137 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty seven heroines and films released from two 138 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: thousand five, So that's excluding Greer's early films as well 139 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: as characters like Ripley from Aliens. Yeah, but to get 140 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: an idea of just how how big of a deal. 141 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: It is that back in the seventies, Greer was an 142 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: action lead. Gilpatrick found that only seven percent of those 143 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: one and fifty seven heroines were what we might consider 144 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: a true action heroine, like a Laura Croft or a 145 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: Coffee or a Sheba Baby somebody like that. And that's 146 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: seventeen years after the reign of Pam Greer. And meanwhile, 147 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: fifty eight point six percent of these fifty seven women 148 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: were depicted as submissive to the male hero. Still they're 149 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: maintaining those feminine stereotypes. And thirty percent died by the 150 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: end of the film. Percent of those who died were 151 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: actually evil women characters who died for their crimes in 152 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: some sort of twisted fashion. Oh so so we're just 153 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: getting killed off. Yeah, they're like, oh, that woman is 154 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: stepping outside her bounds. We better just kill her off 155 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,119 Speaker 1: at the end of the movie. And I mean Gilpatrick 156 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: does point out that this violent female character, whether she's 157 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: good or bad, is kind of redefining how female action 158 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: characters are appearing on screen, for better or for worse. Yeah, 159 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: but she also points out how the average v fact, 160 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: the violent female action character doesn't look very much at all, though, 161 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,359 Speaker 1: like Greer's characters often they're young, they're white, highly educated, 162 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: and unmarried. And that jumped out to me in researching this, 163 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: because now, when we're going to talk about the more 164 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: contemporary female action leads that we think of, it is 165 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: mostly a roster of white women. And so I wonder 166 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: why it had to maybe be Pam Greer in a 167 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: black exploitation kind of film who was able to pave 168 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: the way. Does that make sense? Yeah? And why and 169 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: why African American characters like her have not and able 170 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: to really continue. Yeah, it was like at first we 171 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: would we were only Hollywood was only comfortable with seeing, 172 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, a black woman being so violent and aggressive. 173 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: But now the outside of Halle Berry and Zoe Seldonna 174 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: and a few others, they're few and far between. No, 175 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: I really think that's an interesting point, and I wonder 176 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: this is complete just theory. I wonder if it just 177 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: has anything to do with directors or movie makers fearing 178 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: that their movies will be seen as like black exploitation 179 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: movies or sexploitation movies that Pam group started. Maybe they 180 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: don't want their movie to come off like that. Well, 181 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: I think it seems like the conversation right now is 182 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: so focused on just getting women in these action lead 183 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: roles that it's still a very normative sort of conversation 184 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: and just like, get anyone in there. Okay, let's put 185 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: Angelia Jolie, let's put you know, I mean, most of 186 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: the A list stars, a majority of them are going 187 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: to be the white women. And so it's like we 188 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: haven't even evolved to the point to where people are like, oh, well, 189 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: and now let's talk about diversity, which is unfortunate. Why 190 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: why we can't do both at the same time. I 191 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: don't know. Um, but let's let's go back a little 192 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: bit to the nineteen eighties, because that is when you 193 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: start to see this evolution of a tougher, more muscularized 194 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: woman action star. Yeah. Of course, we've already mentioned Sigourney 195 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: Weaver and Alien she had she delivers that excellent, excellent line, 196 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: uh that it contains that cur sports I'm not going 197 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: to say it. But we've also got Linda Hamilton's who's 198 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: also amazing and Terminator too. She is so ripped and 199 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: bad a um. And then there's Whoopi Goldberg. I mean, 200 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: we you know, we talked about a lack of diversity 201 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: and Whoopi Goldberg is is typically a comedy star. She 202 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: stars as a tough cop in Fatal not exactly like 203 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: some hard hitting action film, but she's still there as 204 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: like a non romantic, you know, action star. Yeah, and 205 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: in this next one. I have not seen this film, Caroline, 206 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: but I know that you're a big fan of it. 207 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: Long Kiss good Night with Gina Davis. I love it. 208 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: I actually haven't seen it in a long time, and 209 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: reading all about Action Stars made me want to read 210 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: it again. And Sam Jackson actually he co starred with 211 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: Gina Davis, and there was an interview with him and 212 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: Scarlett Johansson and Josh Wheden about this topic of women 213 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: action stars, and he kind of took over the interview 214 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: and talked about Long Kiss good Night a lot, saying 215 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: that it was one of the best female led action 216 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: movies out there and he was proud to be a 217 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: part of it. So Gina Davis gets real tough, she 218 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: gets rolls off, rolls off like she she uh, she's 219 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: a b a H kind of woman, a vamp. Yeah, 220 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: she's a b amf um. And that's great though, because 221 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: Gina Davis also is one of the top champions right 222 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: now that you hear about advocating for better representation of 223 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: women in Hollywood, right like she was in a misrepresentation. 224 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: Have you seen that she's in that documentary and talking 225 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: a lot at length about the importance of the depiction 226 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: and the perception of women on film, you know, in 227 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: society as well. And she's she's very admirable. I love 228 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: her well. And I'm sure that this issue of women 229 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: in action roles and not just being the damsel in 230 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: distress is part of that conversation because as we move 231 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: forward in our Hollywood evolution, we do have people like 232 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Angelina Jolie who are in a lot of action roles. 233 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: You know, she was insult she was in Tomb Writer 234 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: of course, Mr and Mrs Smith. You have Uma Thurman 235 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: as Beatrix Kiddo and Kill Bill. She might be one 236 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: of my top five favorite action leads. Yeah, she was. 237 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: She was great in that movie. But I mean she's 238 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: so like single minded and incredible. Um one movie I 239 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: didn't see. I did watch the cartoon on MTV years ago. Uh, 240 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: despite how dark it is is Eon Flux Charlie's Theren 241 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: Oh and apparently that was quite a box office tank. Yeah, 242 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: I got panned, so I can't. I have no idea 243 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: whether it's any good or not. And then uh knew 244 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: me a repace. I'm sorry if I just butchered her name. 245 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: She was in Prometheus with Charlie's Theoren, but she was 246 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: also the original girl with the dragon tattoo. Yeah, and 247 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: then followed up with Rudy Mara who did the American version. 248 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: And obviously there are lots of names and movies that 249 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: we can continue tossing out, but circling back around to 250 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: The Hunger Games and Catnis. Everdeene played by Jennifer Lawrence. 251 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: When the first movie came out, Hollywood observers were particularly 252 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: excited about this heroine. Right Yeah, Rolling Stones Peter Travers 253 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: called her a female warrior worth cheering. I mean she 254 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: she is based on a character in the books, which 255 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,239 Speaker 1: have about million copies in print. She's a character who 256 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: is on her own. She's not fighting for love, you know, 257 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: she's she's fighting for survival to protect her family. You 258 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: know she is. She kicks a lot of but and 259 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: she is independent and strong while doing so. Yeah, And 260 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: there's also commentary on house. She doesn't have any special power. 261 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: She's not a superhero. She it's just her against the world, 262 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: using her smarts, using obviously her bone arrow skills, um, 263 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: using her incredible running and jumping capabilities. Um. And it 264 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: doesn't even though there are semi romantic plot lines in 265 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: the books, it's not like a Twilight scenario when you're 266 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: either team Edward or team Jacob. And let's face it, 267 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: Bella's not the most exciting of action heroes, right. Someone 268 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: call her an empty vessel. Um. People thought that this movie, 269 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: they were like, oh, it's it's gonna be really interesting 270 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: to see how much money this movie takes in. I 271 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: bet it takes in like sixty million or something like that, 272 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: and which would be incredible, but the reality blew the 273 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: predictions out of the water. The movie on opening weekend 274 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: took in one hundred and fifty five million dollars. Yeah, 275 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: that was way more than expected. I think it actually 276 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: made a box office record. And the fact that The 277 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: Hunger Games was made on only seventy million dollars, which 278 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: is pennies in a bucket by Hollywood standards, and so 279 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: for that reason, this success surprised people even more. And 280 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: another person we should say he was really excited about 281 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: Catness was sociologist Katherine Gilpatrick who did that two thousand 282 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: and ten study on female action characters in film, and 283 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: she said, yes, she's a true action heroin she wants 284 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: to protect her family. She's smart, she's heroic, but she's 285 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: not played up as sexy, and she said that her 286 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: character undermined stereotypes of female dependency. So Catness, I feel like, 287 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: revived this conversation of women in these action leads. Although 288 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: she is she plays a younger character. I believe she's sixteen, 289 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: but still right, especially in light of the fact that 290 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: in her study Gilpatrick said that, you know, my research 291 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: shows that you know, the majority, the large majority of 292 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: women action characters are not empowering characters. You know, they're 293 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: they're kind of like the side show, the sexy shot 294 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: side show. And so I think, yeah, she was very 295 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: excited about Catness, just as a lot of other people are. 296 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, she is a refreshing departure from that Twilight 297 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: discussion of what boy is you know the lead going 298 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: to fall in love with? Yeah, And some people have 299 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: said that The Hunger Games is an example of a 300 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: surge in female lead action films. There is a movie, 301 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: hey Wire, starring the m m a fighter Gina Krano, 302 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: although kind of like a on flux hey Wire, did 303 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: not do too well at the box office for reasons 304 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: though that we'll get into in a little bit. Um 305 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: there's also sear Sha Ronan who plays a teenage assassin 306 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: in Hannah, and she was also a star of the 307 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: science fiction film The Host. Oh Hayley Steinfeld. I'm a 308 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: huge fan of her. She led the charge for revenge 309 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: in True Grit, which if you haven't seen it, what 310 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? I love that movie and I 311 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: read the book and the movie is so good. The 312 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: movie is very good. And now now she'll be starring 313 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: an Enders game as well. And then we have a 314 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 1: little Chloe Morettes who is an Atlanta native Christen she 315 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: didn't know that. Yeah. She stars in kick Ass one 316 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: and two and the movie Let Me In. And on 317 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: the animated front, we can't forget Merida of Disney Pixar's Brave, 318 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: which was their very first female lad animated movie, which 319 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: also did very well at the box office, kind of 320 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: in a Hunger Game store of way where people are 321 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: like our folks gonna want to go see this? Will 322 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: children want to see a plucky young girl leading the charge. Yep, yeah, yeah, 323 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: they well, especially with all that crazy red hair that 324 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: I love exactly. So all of this. It's interesting that 325 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about this surge now in because the way 326 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: that people are talking about it and talking about cantinets, 327 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: you would think that this is the first time we've 328 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: ever been around the block with female action characters and 329 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: and female led action movies. But we were having pretty 330 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: much this exact same conversation back in two thousand one, 331 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: when according to the Washington Monthly, action chicks were taking 332 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: over action chicks. What a what a descriptive phrase. Um, 333 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: but it's true though. This was when we had Laura 334 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: Croft hitting the box office and the massive success of 335 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and and critics were saying in 336 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: response to this that, oh, you know what, beefcake is 337 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: played out and reliance on brute force is passe. A 338 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: female action stars are where it's at. And yet a 339 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: decade later, we're having this conversation all over again, right, 340 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: And I mean it was the same, It was almost 341 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: the exact same thing. There were there were conversations of 342 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, femininity versus masculinity, strength versus brains, you know, 343 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: all of that kind of stuff, whether whether it's okay 344 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: for a woman to kick a man's but on screen, 345 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: or in talking about how perhaps a female action lead 346 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: doesn't have to perform action in the same way that 347 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: a guide does. She doesn't have to necessarily have to 348 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: knock out some giant ogre. She might use her brains 349 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: more or use her bow and arrow ala Cadmus or 350 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: something like that. Um And in talking about why this 351 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: is coming up more today, Jeff Gomez, who is the 352 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: founder of the marketing company Starlight Runner, says that it's 353 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: a culmination and convergence of trends that have been building, 354 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: i e. The growing knowledge that women are making the 355 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: decisions in regard to entertainment choices, which I feel like 356 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: we've been doing that for a while. I think that's interesting. 357 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 1: I I I wish that there was a little bit 358 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: more information from from Mr Gomez. Uh. I think that 359 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: was in a Huffington's Post story, because I mean, what's 360 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: the difference now, Like we're women not allowed to say 361 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: what movies they wanted to go to back when you know, 362 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: g I Jane or Long Kiss Good Night we're in theaters, 363 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: like I do. I wonder what that means well, a 364 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: lot of times when we talk about action movies, we're 365 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: talking about blockbusters and movies with huge budgets, and a 366 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: lot of times those movies draw more male audiences. But 367 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: it might just be because it's you know, Sylvester stallone 368 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: own on screen. You can't even understand it's true. Um anyway, Well, 369 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: another another reason for the episode could be that you know, 370 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: people have I say people, I mean like movie makers. 371 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: Filmmakers have seen the incredible popularity of films film series 372 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: really like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, and 373 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: they're trying to find a new way to tell the story. 374 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: How do we take this successful formula and tweak it? 375 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: And so maybe you know, let's let's stig a woman 376 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: in there instead. Well, in speaking of let's stick a 377 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: woman in there instead, um, there's also this idea that, hey, 378 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: maybe younger viewers are more into the idea of going 379 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: to see an action movie, regardless of whether it's starring 380 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 1: Jennifer Lawrence or give me a name of a strong 381 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: men Chris Hemsworth, Chris Hemsworth, thank you. And Hunger Games 382 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: producer Nina Jacobson was talking about this about how viewers 383 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: under twenty five are more open to the idea that 384 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: a character's identity isn't defined by gender alone, and that's 385 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a refreshing thing. I hope that's true. Yeah. Absolutely. 386 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: But there's also the legacy issue too, in which you know, 387 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: filmmakers and production houses want to make money obviously off 388 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: their films, and if female at action movies in the 389 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: past tank like an a on flux, like a haywire, 390 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: then when someone comes back around pitching an idea for 391 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: a female at action film, the funders say that didn't 392 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: work so well in the past, right, So it's not 393 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: necessarily direct like hatred of women per se. It's it's 394 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: more of like, well, if it's not going to make money, 395 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: I don't care who the star is. Yeah, I mean, 396 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: it's executives making executive type business decisions, which is why 397 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: the success again of a Hunger Games like movie is 398 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: so huge for the future of women in action. Absolutely, 399 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: And I mean I do wonder, like I mean, I know, 400 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: I I I kind of speak poorly of the Twilight series, Um, 401 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: but I wonder if that did help usher in catness. Oh, 402 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure it did, because both of them were based 403 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: on book series, and both of those Twilight and Hunger 404 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: Game series skewed female in their readership, and those were, 405 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, the people who did end up buying the 406 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: bulk of the tickets, although there were still plenty of 407 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: dudes who filled those theater seats as well. But in 408 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: considering though, why more female action leads on the big 409 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: screen is important other than just basic parody, It's worthwhile 410 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: considering what we really want from this as an audience 411 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: because some could say, well, aren't you just glorifying violence? 412 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: Or you know, these women are often, you know, very 413 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: sexy and their bodies are always on display. So what 414 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: is it about the female action hero that's so great 415 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: for audiences? Yeah. Um Inku Kang wrote for ny y 416 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: R in June that these female action stars need to 417 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: be positive role models. That's the that's the role that 418 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: they should serve, because she says we've been waiting a 419 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: long time to see more female protagonists distinguished by their heart, courage, 420 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: and smarts instead of their cup size. But she does 421 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: admit that these female stars should not be considered less 422 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: of a role model because their conventional attractiveness is on display, 423 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 1: these bodies show strength, and she even mentions Michelle Obama 424 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: because she said, you know, it can't be a bad 425 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: thing to show a female head basically on a strong 426 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: muscular body. Yeah. And that doesn't necessarily mean, though, that 427 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: they have to model male behavior. As Elissa Rosenberg points 428 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: out at Think Progress, she says that male action heroes 429 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: are heightened versions of the ideals and traits to which 430 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: men are supposed to aspire. Success with getting women in 431 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: action leads does not mean just putting jamming women into 432 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: those same kinds of aspirational characters, right. She talks about 433 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: how if they're going to model some behavior, that they 434 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: should filmmakers, directors whoever, should acknowledge the differences in strength 435 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: and the different strengths that exist between men and women. 436 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: For instance, brains tact in maternal nature and women versus strength, bravery, 437 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: and protectiveness in men. I don't disagree, however, I just 438 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: is it maternal? The word maternal that kind of raises 439 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: your eyebrow. Not necessarily, but why you know, I think strength, bravery, 440 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: and protectiveness are sure not gender specific. Agreed, you know? 441 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,120 Speaker 1: And and and yes, I get what what they're sayinging 442 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: as far as you know, you have like a thor 443 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: a Chris Hemsworth, you know, fighting and hammering and look 444 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: and gorgeous when he does it, you know, And and 445 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: so it's not that a woman can't do that. They're 446 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: arguing that, I guess women should be you know used there. Well, 447 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: it's like if speaking of Thor. Okay, this comes up 448 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: in conversations about The Avengers and Scott Johansson's role as 449 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: a black widow in that where yes, she's in fight 450 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: scenes and she definitely knows how to take some people 451 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: down with her brute strength, but her brute strength is 452 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: not in a Thor kind of way her number one 453 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: contribution to the group. She's able to outsmart people and 454 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: use maybe a broader array of talents. Yeah, I mean, 455 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: because Rosenberg does cite Sigourney Weaver's uh portrayal of that 456 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: maternal instinct. You know, it's Sigourney Weaver mother versus alien 457 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: mother going head to head and how how that maternal 458 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: force propels her to defeat the aliens and so yeah, no, 459 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: I get it, but I think that we shouldn't, you know, 460 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: we shouldn't stick people in those strict strict roles. Well, 461 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: and even Katie sack Off, who is a Battlestar Galactica. Alum, 462 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: she plays Starbuck. I believe. Um. She says, yeah, just 463 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: you don't just make them dudes. She was talking to 464 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair about this, and she said, I'm tired of 465 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: women playing action heroes like men because they aren't men, 466 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: but sometimes they are written like men. I want women 467 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: who play these roles to realize that you don't have 468 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: to take away the vulnerability and the femininity. Those things 469 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: just make the character stronger. Because you take the sensibilities 470 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: of being a woman with the physical training of a man, 471 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: you'd be unstoppable. So maybe instead of like saying that 472 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: women have to use their feminine wiles and men have 473 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: to use their brute strength, we we can switch it 474 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: up a little exactly and everybody gets a piece of 475 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: both of those things. Well, in speaking of the feminine 476 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: wiles issue, what about the sexiness? This comes up a lot. 477 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: I mean, starting with a conversation about you know, Pam Greer, 478 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: where sex was always at the forefront of everything, and 479 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: even it was like before she could punch a guy 480 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: in his crotch, she would first probably have to feign 481 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: at least starting to have sex with him or something 482 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: like that. Right, And actually that's kind of what Katie 483 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: Waldman from Slate wrote. She said that women use sex 484 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: appeal as a weapon farm more than male characters do, 485 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: and that they tend to reach a point in their 486 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: missions where they must feign a desire for a powerful 487 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: male to get what they want. But she asks if 488 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: female action here is excel and marshaling that sexuality, does 489 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: that take away from their athletic or mental feet well? 490 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: And also as I was reading this, two words came 491 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: into my mind. James Bond. That's all the guy does 492 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: is trick women into bed and then you're shuddering with 493 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: the light you Craig looks so good in this suit, 494 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: but in every Double O seven film, the plot line 495 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: eventually involves him getting in bed with someone and that 496 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: and the interesting thing is that we think of James Bond, 497 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, being more of a guy type of flick 498 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: where you know, his sexiness, though, is integral to the 499 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: whole franchise. Sure, his his sexiness, but also, I mean, 500 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: James Bond isn't doing a lot of hand to hand combat. 501 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: I mean he's not. He doesn't have a thor hammer, 502 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: He's not running around punching people in the face necessarily, 503 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: he's he's being sneaky. He's he's using his brains and 504 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: his technological knowledge uh and his his uh, his sex 505 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: appeal to to win these missions. While Scott Johansson, in 506 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: that conversation referenced earlier with Joss Wheden and some other folks, 507 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: was talking about how she feels like, as someone who 508 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: has played this role before, that there is too much 509 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,239 Speaker 1: focus on sexuality. She should have funny quote saying I 510 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: think they're always fighting in a bra so while it 511 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: might be exciting for a still photo, it's ridiculous. But 512 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: I have a feeling she might have also been exasperated 513 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: at this point because on the press tour for The Avengers, 514 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: the number of questions that she got about losing weight 515 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: for the role, what whether she was wearing underwear in 516 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: her Cats suit, all of these absurd questions that, of 517 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: course none of the other guys were asked, and she 518 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: called the journalists out for it, which is great, But yeah, 519 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: I can imagine why she thinks something like that. She 520 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: should just probably hold up que cards at some point 521 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: and be like, here, just write this down. Yeah, this 522 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: is this is my my stance on that um. But 523 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, say what you will, that sex 524 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: appeal helps draw quite quite a large audience. And the 525 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: thing is, at least according to this too and three 526 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: thesis that we found UM from the University of Washington, 527 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: male viewers are drawn to female action lead movies because 528 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: in part of the sexiness the sex factor, whereas women 529 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: tend to watch action films to see complex female characters 530 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: in complex roles. Yeah. I I I'm not a huge 531 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: action movie fan. I don't really go out of my 532 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: way to watch action movies. But in in more thinking 533 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: that type of action movies, I do like to see 534 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: the type of women characters that they have versus like 535 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: a romantic comedy. Sure well, and the thing is plenty 536 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: of men, like we've said, are going to see these movies. 537 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: And not to make it sound like this episode of 538 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: sponsored by Hunger Games, you know, but but of Jennifer 539 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: Lawrence would like to come to the podcast. This is 540 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: her invitation, um. But thirty nine of the opening weekend 541 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: audience at the Hunger Games was men, right, and they 542 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: made up of the opening weekend audience for Brave, although 543 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: I wonder if that was Dad's taking little girls either way. 544 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: Either way, it's a good thing, and they made up 545 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: almost half of the Snow White and the Huntsman audience. 546 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: But that might tie into to the fact that it 547 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: was starring Kristen Stewart and Charlie's Throne, two very attractive women, 548 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: and that might tie into that sex appeal aspect of 549 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: this whole conversation. And I'm trying to think of the 550 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: previews too. I did not see the movie, but I 551 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: remember the previews being very like action oriented, not not 552 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: any sort of like somebody falling in love with someone 553 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: else oriented, And so I wonder if that was more 554 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: of a draw too. Well, And something that's come up 555 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: to is a likability issue. We're circling back around to Haywire, 556 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: which was the action movie starring m M A Fighter 557 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: Gina Kurano, which tanked at the box office, and Jeff Gomez, 558 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: again speaking to having to Post, thinks that it has 559 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: to do with the trailer showing a relatively unknown actress 560 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 1: beating up well liked male co stars Channing Tatum and 561 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,959 Speaker 1: you and McGregor. Yeah, And he says that this makes 562 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: her threatening to men and unsympathetic to women. I didn't 563 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: see that movie because well, I'm just so really good 564 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: at the theater. I don't know how many times in 565 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: this podcast I'm gonna say I haven't seen that movie. Um, 566 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: but I thought the trailer looked really cool. I don't. 567 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean, how is it any different than what's your Name? Um? 568 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: Girl with the dragon tattoo beating up guys in that movie? 569 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I think this is not so 570 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: much an issue of not wanting to see Channing Tatum 571 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,919 Speaker 1: getting his face beaten in by a woman, but the 572 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: issue of it's hard to probably make a big box 573 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: office draw starring someone unknown period. Well, I mean, and 574 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: that like aility ties into this idea coming from the 575 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: Washington Monthly, that men will watch these movies, but only 576 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: to a point. Uh. They wrote that women are still 577 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: only allowed to be violent within certain parameters, largely prescribed 578 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: by what men are willing to tolerate, and while what 579 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,959 Speaker 1: they will tolerate on screen has changed. The writer says 580 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: women action characters violence is more sterilized and their appearance 581 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: is less messy. But then, to give the final word 582 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 1: to Josh Sweden, for whom we have Buffy the Vampire 583 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,919 Speaker 1: Slayer to think, he says that actually, guys really, really 584 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: really do want to see women in action on screen? Right? Yeah? 585 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: He he admits that there's a glass ceiling cinematically. Um. 586 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: He says, there's not a major studio that is out 587 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: there that is trying to make a movie about a 588 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: female superhero. They'll say this is guy stuff. They'll say 589 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: women don't want to see action or men don't want 590 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: to see women, And I'm like, men don't want to 591 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: see women of us? Really do? Well? It reminds me 592 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: of the Heat that came out this summer, which was 593 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: starring Sandra Bullock and Melissa McCarthy, and it did huge 594 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: numbers at the box office, and it was the first 595 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: of its kind as a softer sort of action film, 596 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: but it was a buddy cop movie starring two women, 597 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: and people were initially kind of like with the preview 598 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: of Hunger Game, saying, well, this is actually gonna draw 599 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: any any money? Oh yeah, it does because we get 600 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: excited about these kinds of things. We get excited about 601 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: seeing women in new kinds of roles. And it's going 602 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: back to what we said earlier about uh, you know, legacy, 603 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: about when something is successful before it's more likely to 604 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: be recreated made again. More money put invested into it, 605 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: and so somebody like Melissa McCarthy, who's known to be 606 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: hilarious and she was in Bridesmaids, which was hugely successful. Also, 607 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: people are more willing to be like, Okay, she's not 608 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: a face that I would normally associate with this type 609 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: of movie, but you know, she's starring with Sandra Bullock, 610 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: who's you know, an incredible actors. Let me go see it. Yeah, exactly. 611 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: One thing that we haven't circled back around to is 612 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: the diversity factor, because again, it's mostly white actress after 613 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 1: a white actress for the most part. But in terms 614 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 1: of women in action films, it does seem like it's 615 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: not just a deja bu of two thousand one, that 616 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: there is actually progress being made in Hollywood. And I 617 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: think Hunger Games is partially to thank for that. Yeah. Absolutely, 618 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: so best of luck to Jennifer Lawrence and her crew. 619 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: I hope you bring in so many millions of dollars 620 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: catching fire. Yeah, so so that they'll just keep making 621 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: more amazing roles for amazing female heroin action character ladies. 622 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: Just exactly what you said, Caroline, put it on a 623 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: T shirt. So let us tell your thoughts. So, if 624 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: you're you're an action fan listening, we want to hear 625 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: from you. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is where 626 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: you can send your letters. You can also message us 627 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,280 Speaker 1: on Facebook and tweet us at mom Stuff podcast asked, 628 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of letters to share with 629 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 1: you when we come right back from a quick break 630 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: and now back to our letters. So Lana wrote us 631 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: with the story of trying to not be sexy on Halloween. 632 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 1: She writes, I just want a costume contest for Halloween, 633 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: and I feel pretty cool. I dressed up as a 634 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: Victorian era lion tamer. I'm really into authentic costumes, so 635 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: I put this together from a lot of different places 636 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: on Etsy. I didn't just buy a typical sexy lion 637 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: tamer costume. I'm not very comfortable being viewed as sexy, 638 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: but I do want everyone to think that I looked 639 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: really good. I recognize it's a fine line, but I 640 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: thought I did it very well with his costume. I 641 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: was pretty much fully covered. I felt really pretty in 642 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: my costume and totally comfortable. I was no sexy lion tamer. 643 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: I was a bad asked lion tamer, but on my 644 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: way to the bar where the contest was being held, 645 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: A guy dressed up like a top gun pilot told me, 646 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: you sure are falling out of that Huh. I was 647 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: totally stunned. I'm an hourglass shape with a big hips 648 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: and a large bus and a tiny waist. Obviously the 649 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: course it emphasizes, but I'd worked so hard to make 650 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: sure there was no cleavage. I don't know what I'm 651 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: supposed to do about the way my poor body is shaped. 652 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: I had no way tried to be sexy, but on 653 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: that street corner, this random guy made me feel like 654 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: I had purchased a sexy lion Tamer costume just for him. 655 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: Was he hitting on me? Was that the intent? Who knows? 656 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: I was feeling pretty sucky about my decision to wear 657 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: a corset. I just wanted to look pretty, not sexy. 658 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: When I got to the bar, I won the costume contest, 659 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: and that made me feel way better. But now I'm 660 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: really thinking about next year and what a girl with 661 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: my body type is allowed to do. But well, no, 662 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: I think I think, Alana, that you need to embrace 663 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: your curvy body shape. Your body is not poor, your 664 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: body is wonderful, and you're allowed to do whatever you want. Yeah, 665 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 1: And a guy making comments to you on the street 666 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: corner is what is out of line? Not you? And 667 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: you're awesome award winning Victorian line Tamer costume which does 668 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: sound quite cool? That does. And and if you want 669 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: to send us a picture, I would love to see it. Yeah. 670 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: And by the way, if you if there's an app 671 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: for cat calling, it's called hollaback and download it and 672 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: it can give you some tips on and how to 673 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: deal with dudes like that sounds good to me. This 674 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: is a Facebook message from Mandy. She's responding to our 675 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: Crazy Women podcast and said that it really resonated with her. 676 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 1: She says, it really irks me when people label someone 677 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: else is crazy, and it absolutely seems to happen way 678 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: more to women and girls than it ever does to 679 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: men and boys. I didn't really fit in in the 680 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: small town I grew up in, and one of the 681 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: mean things people said about me was that I was 682 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: crazy or a psycho. I didn't do anything to deserve 683 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: such harsh treatment, and pain of that still sticks with 684 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: me to this day, considering at the time that I 685 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: was going through such an anxiety disorder brought on by 686 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: undiagnosed obsessive compulsive disorder, being called crazy and wondering if 687 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: it was true made for some pretty miserable times in 688 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 1: my life. Now I'm a successful woman who runs around 689 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: business and is raising a young family. Through hard work 690 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: and behavior cognitive therapy as well as medication, I'm able 691 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,359 Speaker 1: to live a life mostly free of o c D 692 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: and the symptoms of it, such as anxiety and depression. 693 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: I used to hide the emotional and mental problems I've 694 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: been through in my life, but now I am very 695 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: open and honest about it and hopes that I break 696 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: down this crazy stigma. And I'm always floored by the 697 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: amount of people, especially women, who have had similar experiences 698 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: and similar problems as me, but we're too afraid to 699 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 1: tell anyone or seek help for fear of being labeled. Crazy. 700 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 1: Words can hurt and do a lot of damage, and 701 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: crazy is no exception. So thank you so much Mandy 702 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: for sharing your story. I think it's very enlightening and 703 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: I hope uh some listeners out there take it to heart. Yeah, 704 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: and thanks to everyone who's written in mom Stuff. Discovery 705 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: dot Com is our email dress, so you can also 706 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: message us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter at mom 707 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast. You can also find us on Instagram at 708 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: stuff mom Never Told You and on Tumbler as well. 709 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: It's stuff I'm Never told You dot tumbler dot com. 710 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: And last, but certainly not least, we have a YouTube 711 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,399 Speaker 1: channel and you should check it out. It's YouTube dot com, 712 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,359 Speaker 1: slash stuff mom Never Told You, and don't forget to 713 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 1: subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics. 714 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:37,439 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com