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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all all.

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Speaker 2: We got a great guest for you the name Jason Hooton.

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Speaker 2: He's a new head coach in New Mexico State. He

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Speaker 2: was a longtime assistant head coach that became head coach

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Speaker 2: at Sam Houston State. They're coming off a year in

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Speaker 2: which they went reached the n T second round, right

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Speaker 2: lost North Texas. North Texas be Tokelman State goes to

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Speaker 2: the Funal four. Both he and Grant McCastle and go

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Speaker 2: and get bigger jobs. And here we are, We're coming

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Speaker 2: out the NBA Finals. And I do think and this

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Speaker 2: is part of the discussion we'll have with coach Houghton

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Speaker 2: is man, not only can you be impressed by Jokic

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Speaker 2: and the Nuggets as a team, but the inventive ways

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Speaker 2: in which they use kind of a point center. And

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Speaker 2: I also it's the question of when we evaluate players,

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Speaker 2: we evaluate basketball players, how much of the equation has

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Speaker 2: to do with athleticism pure on adult and now there's

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Speaker 2: other types of athleticism, but the speed, agility, length, Don't

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Speaker 2: get me wrong, I mean Jo Kich's stuff doesn't work

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Speaker 2: if he's six ' five or six to six. But

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Speaker 2: the fact is he's not a blur. He is kind

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Speaker 2: of awkward, and yet he's a dominant player in the NBA.

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Speaker 2: And you could make the case that that lucas a

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Speaker 2: dominant player in the NBA also not a blur.

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Speaker 1: Paul Pierce is a guy, not a blur.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, Kevin Durant now is able to

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Speaker 2: get away with things because he's just so big, so tall,

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Speaker 2: so long. But it's just an interesting in terms of

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Speaker 2: player evaluation and basketball evolution. How much should we value

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Speaker 2: or overvalue, undervalue athleticism. It's a great question. More of

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Speaker 2: that to come, and I'll get you ready for next

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Speaker 2: next week's NBA draft. But I thought, especially on a

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Speaker 2: weekend where so many basketball coaches tell me, man, I'm recruiting.

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Speaker 2: I love listening to all ball, I thought we'd catch

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Speaker 2: up with a new head coach in Mexico State, jayse Dude,

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Speaker 2: I want to go back to the start in a second.

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Speaker 2: But here we are, June recruiting period. Even to this

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Speaker 2: a long time, what's the state of your program?

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Speaker 1: Middle of June?

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Speaker 2: And I ask, because you know you've been on the

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Speaker 2: job a couple months. It's a program that you're kind

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Speaker 2: of starting from scratch. Restarting from scratch, It's been very successful,

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Speaker 2: but this is an era in which the common perception

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Speaker 2: is you can flip it in very short order and you.

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Speaker 1: Can get it back going.

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Speaker 2: But go back to last year, last two years, some

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Speaker 2: guys landing people in the portal in August. So what's

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Speaker 2: the state of your program at New Mexico State right now?

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I don't know about kind of

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Speaker 3: starting over. I mean, signing thirteen guys in one year,

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Speaker 3: it's probably going to go down, as you know, monumentally

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Speaker 3: one of the hardest things to accomplish. You know, I

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Speaker 3: think when you when you take the job, you're excited

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Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, thirty, we can do it. You've

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Speaker 3: got the portal, and you know, I know at least

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Speaker 3: probably four of these guys are gonna come with me,

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Speaker 3: and you know, and then you look up and it's

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Speaker 3: whatever today is, Well, today's my anniversary is June seventeenth,

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Speaker 3: So you look, you know, you look up today and

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Speaker 3: you're like, man, we still got three more to sign.

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Speaker 3: So you know, definitely the portal helps. I mean, we've

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Speaker 3: we've gone in there and gotten some good players, I believe,

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Speaker 3: and some guys that can help us, you know, establish

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Speaker 3: some things, maybe quickly, but we still have a couple

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Speaker 3: of big ones left to get and those are hard,

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Speaker 3: and I'm hoping that, like you said, you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: in July and August, you know, we can land one

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Speaker 3: or two more guys that will help us be competitive

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Speaker 3: right away, because that's the expectations here. Regardless of what

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Speaker 3: happened last year with the season being shut down or

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Speaker 3: whatever else took place. The people here are rabid basketball

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Speaker 3: fans and they expect to win right away, and so

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Speaker 3: as a coach, that's what you expect also, I mean,

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Speaker 3: you don't want to go somewhere and you know, take

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Speaker 3: a year or two to get something back up off

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Speaker 3: the ground. I mean, we want to try to go

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Speaker 3: win right away, and so we still got a little

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Speaker 3: bit of work to do still in the middle of June.

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Speaker 2: How do you recruit in terms of a player's expectations.

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Speaker 1: None of the expectations are going to be totally reasonable.

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Speaker 2: But you don't have guys coming back, so there's not

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Speaker 2: the well, you know, he's come back, so he's going

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Speaker 2: to play that like you have literally a completely new team.

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Speaker 2: How do you sell expectations to the players.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a that's a good question by obviously a

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Speaker 3: former basketball player. You know, when you bring in thirteen

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Speaker 3: new guys, the expectation will be for everybody to play

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Speaker 3: all the time, right, even more so as you said

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Speaker 3: in the normal past, when you've got five returners or

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Speaker 3: eight returners like we did last year at Sam Houston.

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Speaker 3: You know, these guys we've we've kind of told them

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Speaker 3: all like, hey, it's wide open. I mean, we have

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Speaker 3: no idea who's playing. I mean, you got thirteen new guys,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, the playing time is there for everyone.

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Speaker 3: But also think Doug, like the guys that we've recruited

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Speaker 3: have won where they've been. But they also know our

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Speaker 3: track record, and I think they've said, man, you know,

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Speaker 3: these guys, this staff, they've all they've done is win.

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Speaker 3: Wherever they've been, they've won. And so you know, we're

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Speaker 3: we're gonna we're gonna jump on board with them, and

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Speaker 3: we're gonna put ourselves in a position to you know,

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Speaker 3: to I've told them all like we could be a

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Speaker 3: thirty for thirty. I mean, if we took this thing

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Speaker 3: and we found somehow some way to maybe win a

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Speaker 3: league this year or to get to the NCAA tournament.

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Speaker 3: You know, for all the negative of publicity that we

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Speaker 3: had this past spring or last year season, I think

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Speaker 3: it could also be the opposite. I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: we could also be an unbelievable story. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's what we all signed up for. And you know,

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Speaker 3: the expectations. I mean, if you think about it, Doug,

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Speaker 3: the last team to beat Yukon in the NCAA Tournament

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Speaker 3: was New Mexico State. And so yeah, I think we've

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Speaker 3: we've understood what we've signed up for here, and you know,

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Speaker 3: they've always been really really good and great, you know,

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Speaker 3: great tradition here of basketball school, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: I think we're really excited about that.

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Speaker 2: How much is coming from a winning program part of

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Speaker 2: the equation. And I bring it up because, you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the hard things I've talked with a lot

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Speaker 2: of coaches who asked me, you know, the beauty to

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Speaker 2: my job is I do get to see a lot

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Speaker 2: of guys and a lot of different programs, and the

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Speaker 2: evails are hard because you know, it's the old expression,

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Speaker 2: every bad team as a leading scorer, right, and those

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Speaker 2: are the kids that are always in the portal like, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, he averaged seven game, team won six games,

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Speaker 2: So how how how what percentage of the equation is

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Speaker 2: is he a winner? And I guess kind of the

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Speaker 2: follow up to it is, you know, how do you

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Speaker 2: determine if the kid himself was part of the reason

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Speaker 2: they were like, well, if he's a winner, why ving?

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Speaker 1: So how how do you evaluate that part in the portal.

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Speaker 3: I think we've done the opposite, Doug. What we've done

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Speaker 3: in the portal last year and this year is we've

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Speaker 3: taken that guy that was like the sixth or seventh

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Speaker 3: man and averaged about six or seven points in a

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Speaker 3: Power five, right, the guy that you know he looked,

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Speaker 3: he averaged like six point five. I mean, look at

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Speaker 3: kway Grant. You know he was at Wichita State. He

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Speaker 3: averaged four point four. He played about fifteen minutes a game,

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Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, we take him to

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Speaker 3: Sam Houston and he averages fourteen and a half. His numbers,

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Speaker 3: you know, he averages more assists and his percentages go up.

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Speaker 3: He goes up to almost thirty seven percent from three

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Speaker 3: to forty four percent to the field. So I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, we've kind of done the opposite of that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if we've taken the highest score off

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Speaker 3: of a team, and you know, I think we've gone

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Speaker 3: and got that guy that we're like, you know what,

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Speaker 3: if we put him in a good system and we

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Speaker 3: put him around a bunch of guys, they're going to

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Speaker 3: work hard, they're tough. Now all of a sudden, this

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Speaker 3: guy is going to turn into a really good player

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Speaker 3: on the mid major level. And I feel like we've

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Speaker 3: done that this year. You know, we've taken you know, uh,

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Speaker 3: you know rand And Suggs from Central Florida. He's one

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Speaker 3: of the first guys off the bench for them. He

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Speaker 3: averaged about six point seven in the AAD. You know,

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Speaker 3: I think he's going to average double figures for us.

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Speaker 3: You know, Femeo de Coule from Seaton Hall averaged about

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Speaker 3: seven or eight a game at Seaton Hall. You know,

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Speaker 3: I think he's gonna to be a double figure scorer

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Speaker 3: for us. So those just to name a few. But

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Speaker 3: I think that's kind of what we've done. And then

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Speaker 3: we've done what we've always done. We've we've tried to

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Speaker 3: take kids that I feel like fit our culture. They're tough,

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Speaker 3: they're hard, nos, gonna play hard, going to guard and defend.

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Speaker 3: I think those are things that we've always been known

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Speaker 3: for in our program and staples of our program. And

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Speaker 3: you know, to your point though, I mean, yeah, you

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Speaker 3: have to look at what type of a kid it is,

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Speaker 3: what type of player they are, you know, are they

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Speaker 3: are they going to be a part of a winning

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Speaker 3: a winning culture. Are they going to do the things

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Speaker 3: that it takes, you know, to win, like defending rebound.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's been a good formula for us,

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Speaker 3: But I do think that you have to you have

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Speaker 3: to match up portal guys with with your philosophy. I

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Speaker 3: don't think you can just like you said, I don't

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Speaker 3: think you can necessarily just go take a guy that

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Speaker 3: averaged sixteen or seventeen or eighteen a game that's leaving

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Speaker 3: and he wants to go down to a mid So

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Speaker 3: if you're at a high major and you're averaging sixteen

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Speaker 3: a game, why would you step down to a low major.

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Speaker 3: I think then, Doug, you start to see maybe there's

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Speaker 3: some issues and some problems.

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Speaker 2: There is there is there value for you in recruiting

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Speaker 2: high school kids like the twenty fours heck.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean we've got three. I've got three of

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Speaker 3: my guys on the road right now this weekend. Uh,

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Speaker 3: and I'll go next weekend. So yeah, we're gonna We're

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Speaker 3: gonna keep doing what we've always done. I think you've

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Speaker 3: got to have a mix. I'm not sure I'm the

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Speaker 3: type of person that can just go get a whole

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Speaker 3: portal team, maybe a whole team of transfers. Now, this

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Speaker 3: year it'll be it'll be strong. It'll be stronger than

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Speaker 3: probably it'll ever be, just because y'all want to try

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Speaker 3: to win. We want to try to be competitive right away.

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Speaker 3: We've got two high school players now and maybe still

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Speaker 3: pick up one more, so we'll have three, possibly three

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Speaker 3: out of thirteen this year. We've taken a couple Juco

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Speaker 3: guys and then the rest will be portal guys. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: we've got to we've got to keep doing that. I

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Speaker 3: think that's going to be. You know, our culture will

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Speaker 3: be a little different here than it has been. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm a little different and my philosophy is a little

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Speaker 3: bit different than what it's been here in the past,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, I think with that will come

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Speaker 3: us taking some high school kids for sure, And we're

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Speaker 3: recruiting twenty fours and twenty five is pretty hard right now.

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Speaker 1: Well, also, and you tell me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: A lot of this is can provide you even if

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Speaker 2: you don't get kids. It provides you the data and

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Speaker 2: the background so that when inevitably they are in the portal,

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Speaker 2: you have a working knowledge of them as players and people.

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Speaker 3: Is that fair? It's a great point by you. You know.

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Speaker 3: The best example I can think of is two years

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Speaker 3: ago we signed save on Flag from Texas A and

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Speaker 3: M at Sam Houston. And the first thing that he

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Speaker 3: said to me when he left A and M. He

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Speaker 3: had a year left, and the first thing he said

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Speaker 3: was coach. When I was a sophomore and came to

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Speaker 3: the elite camp here, you were the first person to

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Speaker 3: offer me. And you know two years what six years,

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Speaker 3: I guess fast forward five or six years later. You

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Speaker 3: know he remembered that, And so yes, I think that

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Speaker 3: has a lot to do with that for sure. Just

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Speaker 3: building those relationships, you know, getting to know those people.

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Speaker 3: I think it when it, you know, when that opportunity

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Speaker 3: comes back around maybe in the portal, I think you

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Speaker 3: have a leg up on some what were you like

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Speaker 3: as a player, I was probably a poor man's version

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Speaker 3: of you. Uh in college? Probably in college I was.

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Speaker 3: I was probably a poor man you. I wasn't as

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Speaker 3: good as you, but I was probably a lot like

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Speaker 3: you in that I could really run a team. I

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Speaker 3: was a leader on the court. I was tough. I

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Speaker 3: can make open shots.

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Speaker 2: Uhlay, is there still a place for that kid in

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Speaker 2: college basket?

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Speaker 3: You know what? It's funny. I just got out the

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Speaker 3: shower this morning and I was thinking about the questions

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Speaker 3: you were going to ask me. And I was thinking,

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Speaker 3: if you asked me something like that, what would my

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Speaker 3: answer be? And I don't know the answer for that.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to hope. So, but do we recruit guys

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Speaker 3: like that anymore? You know? I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 3: my point guards on my team right now are going

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Speaker 3: to all think that they're going to be our leading scorer.

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Speaker 3: And that wouldn't you and I? You know, you know

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Speaker 3: we both played or I'm over than you, but I

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Speaker 3: you know, you played in an era where you threw

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Speaker 3: the ball inside like I had to throw the ball

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Speaker 3: inside every time down the court. And I played with

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Speaker 3: legitimate postman and they posted up and we ran stuff

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Speaker 3: to get the ball inside, and I threw the ball inside,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I averaged a lot of assists every game,

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Speaker 3: and if I got a couple of open shots, I

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Speaker 3: was pretty happy. I don't know, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: it is or not. You know, are there that kind

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Speaker 3: of guy's in the NBA? I guess that's the question.

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Speaker 3: And you would know the answer to that better than me.

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Speaker 3: You know, are there those times of guys in the

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Speaker 3: NBA anymore?

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Speaker 2: DJ McCullum, the kid that was at Duquine th Arizona, right, Uh?

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Speaker 2: And then I mean I think you know, Chris Paul

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Speaker 2: at this point in his career plays off the ball more,

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Speaker 2: but he can still do it some.

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Speaker 1: But even him, you know, it's a it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a ball nombin.

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Speaker 2: And and to be fair, you know, I played in

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Speaker 2: high school in AU a little bit more like a

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Speaker 2: nash Or or a Chris Paul scoring more. It just,

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Speaker 2: you know, I completely lost any sort of confidence in

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Speaker 2: my jump shot college. But I just you know, it's

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Speaker 2: like I have a son. He's a late blomer, you know,

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Speaker 2: he's little like I was. And you know, like last

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Speaker 2: week he played and he just kind of ran it

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Speaker 2: he played on my Buddies team. He just kind of

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Speaker 2: ran the team and they were clearly better when he

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Speaker 2: was on the floor than when he was on the floor.

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Speaker 1: But it it's just interesting on how, you know, we

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Speaker 1: we evalue.

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Speaker 2: I think like there's a there's a there's a bigger

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Speaker 2: story there that I want your input. And I think

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Speaker 2: the Jokic Jokic's dominance in the NBA Finals and NBA Playoffs,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a great jumping off point, which is

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Speaker 2: it's like when you send your guys out there to recruit,

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Speaker 2: do they do they know that the kid that runs

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Speaker 2: the fastest, jumps the highest, sometimes makes great effort plays.

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Speaker 2: It's not that they don't play hard, but it's can

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Speaker 2: you evaluate the actual basketball.

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Speaker 1: IQ and skill?

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Speaker 2: But on the other hand, there's the balance of Okay,

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Speaker 2: what can you get away with now? You know at

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Speaker 2: your level where you know, can you be what you

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Speaker 2: call a step slow?

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Speaker 1: You know, can you I mean, there's.

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Speaker 2: There's just those special guys from when we were kids

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Speaker 2: and Larry Bird to now Luca I mean, Paul Pierce

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Speaker 2: is that way and now Jokic. This is different than

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Speaker 2: the past first point guard. It's the super high basketball,

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Speaker 2: Like you super skilled and tough but lacks the bird athletically.

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Speaker 1: How hard is that to evaluate balance in the way

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Speaker 1: in which au and high school basketball is played and

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Speaker 1: the guys in which you have evaluated.

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Speaker 3: Don't you think that's I think you answered it, like

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Speaker 3: there's two sides to that, right. There's a coach who

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Speaker 3: values those things, and he looks at your son and says, man,

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Speaker 3: this kid, he may be a step slow or a

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Speaker 3: half a step slow, but he's always going to be

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Speaker 3: in the right position, Like he's going to keep somebody

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Speaker 3: in front because he's going to figure it out. Or

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Speaker 3: you know, he's going to jump with the ball and

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Speaker 3: be in the gap and be where he's supposed to be,

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Speaker 3: and he's going to take a charge every single time.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's going to get every loose ball. He's

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Speaker 3: going to run the team. The team is so much

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Speaker 3: better when he's on the floor. He's going to make

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Speaker 3: an open shot. Now you take him and you surround

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Speaker 3: him around a joke and maybe a pierce, and now

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Speaker 3: you've got a good team. And I still think there's

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Speaker 3: there's that. I think it's a coach though, Like it's

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Speaker 3: got to be the right program right, It's got to

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Speaker 3: be the right coach, you know, It's got to be

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Speaker 3: someone that values those things. And then there's years when

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Speaker 3: you're like, man, you know what, we need that other guy.

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Speaker 3: We need that, like you said, the super athletic guy

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Speaker 3: that you know, but also still just as a coach.

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Speaker 3: In my philosophy, I always think you have to have

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Speaker 3: the two together. Uh. You know, I think we've had

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Speaker 3: our best teams when we've had that. Last year was

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Speaker 3: a good example of our team. We had a little

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Speaker 3: bit of all of that together. And those guys were

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Speaker 3: pretty good IQ and they knew how to play, and

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Speaker 3: they knew how to move the ball, and nobody cared

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Speaker 3: who the leading scorer was. And I think your son

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Speaker 3: will you know, he'll prosper in one of those types

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Speaker 3: of you know, environments and on one of those kind

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Speaker 3: of teams. He's going to be able to play and

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Speaker 3: make a name for himself on a team like that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think there's still there's still coaches out

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Speaker 3: there that value that and they look for that for sure.

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Speaker 3: You know, with with ball screen offense, now, you know,

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Speaker 3: you didn't really play in a ball screen offense back then,

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Speaker 3: and if you would, if you would have played in

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Speaker 3: a ball screen offense back then, you would have really,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you would have prospered because you're you know,

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Speaker 3: you're great ball handling, and you're a great feel and

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Speaker 3: your you know, your great reads off of ball screens,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I mean, I don't think we set

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Speaker 3: that one ball screen I played.

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Speaker 4: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

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Speaker 4: the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio

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Speaker 4: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to

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Speaker 4: listen live.

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Speaker 1: So who's your high school coach?

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Speaker 3: A guy named Mark o'cina Marcosina, after finishing high school

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Speaker 3: with me, was the longtime juco coach at Weatherford Junior

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Speaker 3: College and that that was my high school coach. And

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Speaker 3: then in junior college, I played for a guy named

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Speaker 3: Ken Dewees Uh played one thousands of games at McLennan

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Speaker 3: Community College, and then when I got to Tarleton I

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Speaker 3: played for probably one of the best unknown college basketball

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Speaker 3: coaches of all time, a guy named Lon Riesman at

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Speaker 3: Tarleton State. He's known probably mostly known for finding Dennis Rodman.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: He found Dennis Rodman when he was an assistant at

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Speaker 3: Southeastern Oklahoma and coached Dennis at Southeastern and but but

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Speaker 3: coach Reesman was I mean, he's won over seven hundred games.

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Speaker 3: He was also the athletic director at the time at

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Speaker 3: Tarleton and still is to this day. He's the athletic

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Speaker 3: director at Tarleton State. But he was my mentor. He

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Speaker 3: was my college coach and the man that pretty much

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Speaker 3: taught me everything about coaching that I know today. And

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Speaker 3: I got to give him a lot of credit for

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Speaker 3: me being even in a position that I'm in today.

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Speaker 1: What was something that.

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Speaker 2: He did at practice that you had never seen before?

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Speaker 3: Man practice for four hours every day with one water

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Speaker 3: break man Doug those you know there was It was funny.

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Speaker 3: There was an assistant coach who at the time was

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Speaker 3: at UTEP for coach Haskins and then ended up over

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Speaker 3: here actually at New Mexico State with coach McCarthy, a

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Speaker 3: guy named Russ Bradbert. You probably know Russ. And at

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Speaker 3: the time when I was playing and then became a

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Speaker 3: young assistant at Tarleton, I was like ninety three ninety four.

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Speaker 3: Russ had he had put a player named Roy Howard

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Speaker 3: in at Tarleton the year before I got there, because

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Speaker 3: back then you could put a player in an NAI

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Speaker 3: for one year and then take him back and he

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Speaker 3: would be eligible at the Division one. And so Russ

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Speaker 3: put this kid named Roy Howard in at Tarleton, as

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Speaker 3: I said, the year before I got there. And then

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Speaker 3: when Roy finished his first year, he took him to

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Speaker 3: UTIP and Roy had a tremendous career at UTIP. But

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Speaker 3: I remember when I became an assistant, Russ would come

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Speaker 3: around and you know, he would, he would come through

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Speaker 3: practices and kind of took me under his wing. Taught

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Speaker 3: me a lot about recruiting when I was a young assistant,

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Speaker 3: and I never did. He would come to those practices

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Speaker 3: and he said, listen, I've been to Bobby Knight's practice before.

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Speaker 3: These practices are way harder than Bobby Knight's practices. So man,

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Speaker 3: he just taught me. Obviously, you can't practice like that today, right,

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Speaker 3: But I think he just taught me about the value

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Speaker 3: of just pushing guys to be the best they can be,

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Speaker 3: and you know, just playing hard and diving on the

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Speaker 3: floor for loose balls and taking charges and I think

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Speaker 3: all those things that maybe most kids, if you sign

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Speaker 3: thirteen guys, probably ten of them don't just naturally want

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Speaker 3: to do those things, or they've never been maybe held

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Speaker 3: accountable to do those things. But I think when you

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Speaker 3: put them in your program, and you put them around

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Speaker 3: three or four guys like your son who do those

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Speaker 3: things naturally, then you know, I think that's how you

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Speaker 3: build a winning culture and a program. And so I

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Speaker 3: think he taught me those things more more than anything,

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Speaker 3: and just you know, taught me that. And then defense,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we were blessed this past year.

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Speaker 3: We were fourth in the country and points per game

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Speaker 3: given up and we were fifth in the country and

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Speaker 3: field go defense, and so I just think year in

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Speaker 3: and year out, we've been pretty good defensively.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I had this conversation Miles Simon's one of my dearest friends.

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Speaker 1: He's a head coach in the G League.

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Speaker 2: He's been assistant coach in the NBA, and he was

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Speaker 2: assistant coach at Arizona under Loot and he played us

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Speaker 2: in the LOOT they won national championship. And I said, Hey,

431
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 2: did lude ever ever drop a play? And He's like, nope,

432
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's funny. Coach Sutton never drew

433
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: a play, not one. Now, Seawn Sutton would drop the

434
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: plays and then you know he'd point out something spacing wise.

435
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't like he didn't understand spacing.

436
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: But uh right, what was what was he like as

437
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: far as an exit because that part, I mean, I'll

438
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 2: even go to the defensive side. You know, people always

439
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 2: talk about Eddie Sutton's defense like I'll never forget. Well,

440
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 2: first time we did a drill, you know, we did

441
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 2: one on one contained on the side, and it was

442
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: kind of old school, right, you start under the bucket,

443
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: you roll that ball out, you close out, and you

444
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: know you've got to guard your yard or you got

445
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 2: to go again to keep going till you get a stop.

446
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: And I and so you know, it was.

447
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 2: Yep, my first practice. And I said, coach, are we

448
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 2: forcing middle? We force the baseline? He said, no, guard

449
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: your man. I was like, coach, I understand, but where

450
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: is the help coming from. Well, the only thing you

451
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 2: need to do is help me, coach, if you can't

452
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 2: guard your man right now.

453
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: In reality, we did help from the baseline.

454
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: Side, but it was it was so like, I'm not wrong,

455
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: it was so different, like we're now we got all

456
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: this plays in false motion and movement and you know,

457
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: different ways of ball stream coverage and rotations. What was

458
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: it like for you at Tarltan in regards to the

459
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: level of detail outside of just play hard and.

460
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 3: Compete, well, coach was old school for sure. We ran

461
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 3: a motion with four out in one end, and you

462
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 3: know we didn't have I don't think maybe, well, I

463
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: guess we did get a shot clock. Maybe I can't

464
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: remember where you're the shot clock came in. But man,

465
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 3: we worked that thing around the horn. Now, I mean

466
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 3: we passed it and cut and passed it and cut.

467
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: You never stood still. You always passed and cut. And

468
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: then the postman went from block to block and we

469
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 3: threw the ball into him. And I played with in

470
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 3: both years at Charlton, I played with two postmen that

471
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 3: I mean. Those guys were, you know, twenty five points

472
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: a game and they could carry us all on their back.

473
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 3: But man, we never quit moving. We passed and cut,

474
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 3: We passed and cut, and then you know we had

475
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 3: set plays. But man, you know, like the old and

476
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 3: I still run it. We call it two games, you know,

477
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 3: and actually I guess we did. We did run a

478
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: ball screen, you know, set up one ball screen on

479
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 3: the side and a stagger on the other side, and

480
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: you know, come off of it. And that was you know,

481
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 3: we kind of go into a little shuffle stagger out

482
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 3: of it. But you it was pretty simple. Offensively, I

483
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: think we just were based off of that motion. But defensively,

484
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: not a lot has changed.

485
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: Ug.

486
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 3: I mean, we did that drill every day, and you know,

487
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 3: maybe after about a month he would say, Okay, now

488
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,239
Speaker 3: your help is coming from over here, and you know

489
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: we're gonna But he always taught defense like it was

490
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: a puzzle. And this was what he'd always say. If

491
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 3: you're putting I say it today, I'll say it next month. Hey,

492
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: if you're putting a puzzle together and you walk in,

493
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 3: you just don't throw it on the floor and it

494
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 3: put himself together. You know, you got to put it

495
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: together piece by piece. And or you always say, you know,

496
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 3: if you come in your dorm the first night you

497
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: come in your dorm, you have no idea where the

498
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 3: light is. You're reaching around, you're feeling around, you're trying

499
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 3: to find the light, and so you know, you would

500
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 3: say all those things, and of course, you know, when

501
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: you're nineteen twenty twenty one, you're like, what what are

502
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 3: you talking about? You know, and then man, I got

503
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 3: to become a head coach, and I'm like saying the

504
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 3: same things, and we teach the same ways. But you know,

505
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: those defensive drills that you do with coach, I think

506
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 3: are probably the same ones we do. I mean, you know,

507
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: close out drills and trying to keep the ball in front.

508
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 3: And you know we don't try to overcomplicate things. I mean,

509
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 3: you know we helped from certain sides for sure, but man,

510
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 3: we have our best teams. When dudes can keep the

511
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: ball in front, you know that. I mean, when you

512
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 3: can keep the ball in front. You know, when your

513
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 3: point guard can keep the ball in front, you got

514
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: a chance to be pretty good. And then nowadays, if

515
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 3: you've got a big guy that can really help on

516
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: ball screens and whatever your philosophy is, whether it's a

517
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 3: hard head or a shadow or whatever you do, if

518
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 3: that big guy's really good at that and he's long

519
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: and can protect the rim, you know you got a

520
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 3: chance to be pretty good defensively. And that's what we

521
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 3: did last year. You know, Quai could quake. I had

522
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 3: two guards, Quay and Dante Power. Those two guys could

523
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: really guard. And then my big kid that I brought

524
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: from Kansas State who's actually coming with me to New

525
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 3: Mexico State. He I mean, he was so good on

526
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: ball screen coverage, high level like you you know, would

527
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 3: talk to you the whole time, Doug, Doug, you know,

528
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 3: turn your feet on your feet. It's right here, you know.

529
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: I mean he just the whole night. He just talked.

530
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 3: And I think that's really why we were good defensively.

531
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 3: But a lot of those things. You know, if coach

532
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 3: come to my practice today, I think he would, you know,

533
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 3: he would look at it and say, man, you know

534
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: that that makes me proud. It's the same stuff that

535
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: we did back in the eighties. And I think if

536
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 3: you were coaching today and coach came to your practice,

537
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: Coach sudden came to your practice, I think he would

538
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 3: say the same thing about you too, and your dad,

539
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 3: for that matter. I think both of them would watch

540
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 3: your practice and say, you know, that's what I taught you.

541
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 3: You know, those are the things that still matter in

542
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 3: basketball in order to win.

543
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: I was a guy who was interesting, you know he

544
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: did and I take this with youth teams that I

545
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: coached today, and I've seen the guys i've seen do

546
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: it the most are Tony Bennett, Randy Bennett, no relation.

547
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: Obviously a couple of those guys where they do spend

548
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 2: a segment of every practice on passing fundamentals and cutting fundamentals.

549
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: And it's really interesting, you know.

550
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: I mean, there was never a practice my dad ever

551
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: had that we didn't do. He was big on jump stop,

552
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: like you know, the two man passing when you're fifteen

553
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: eighteen feet away, but he always did it with a

554
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: jump stop, you know, and teaching a jump stop. Now

555
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: obviously it's more of a one to two stop whatever.

556
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: But I've seen Tony Bennet's teams. They come out and

557
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: their first segment is always on you know, ball handling,

558
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: passing and catching. Sean Miller is big on passing and catching,

559
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: and it's really it is. It is interesting that that

560
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: I honestly think it's needed more now, even though I

561
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: do believe the overall skill is better, but the overall skill,

562
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: so much of it is these guys working out one

563
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: on cone with a workout guy, so they're better with

564
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: the ball, but they don't know what the hell to

565
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: do without the ball. And then the passing and catching

566
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: element of it oftentimes is is something that they don't

567
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: focus on in their workouts. By your estimation, guys done

568
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: in a long time. What are players like now as

569
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: opposed to when you used to get them out of

570
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: high school right out of a transfer.

571
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: I think it's that part, Doug. You're I think you're

572
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 3: spot on. We spend five minutes every day on passing

573
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 3: two hand passing, just like your dad, to two guys

574
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: together with a ball. We do it five minutes a

575
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: day or six days a week. That's thirty minutes a week.

576
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: So we concentrate on two hand chest passes. I'm a

577
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: big two hand guy, and so many guys have one

578
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: hand on the ball, and nowadays everybody plays up in

579
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: the passing lanes and if someone overplays you and you're

580
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: making a one handed pass, you can't pull that thing back.

581
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 3: And I think that's why a lot of turnovers happen.

582
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: So we have two hands on the ball. Not to

583
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: say that we won't make a one handed pass, but

584
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 3: we got to have two hands on the ball eventually.

585
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 3: You know. We work a lot on post entry passes still,

586
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: and we try to concentrate on throwing it in, although

587
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 3: we probably don't enough. But yeah, I agree with you.

588
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: I mean taking care of the ball is you know,

589
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 3: I just look at the possessions now, especially in the NBA. Man,

590
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: there's so many possessions in a game. People talk about

591
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: these statistics. You know that these guys are getting triple

592
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: doubles every night. But I mean if you look at

593
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: when Larry Bird played and now when Lebron plays. I

594
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 3: don't know the numbers because I'm not an analytical guy

595
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: like that, but there's got to be tons, tons more

596
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: possessions per game.

597
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: You're talking ninety possessions, ninety plus possessions and oh yeah,

598
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: by the way, within those possessions, you know, some of

599
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: those guys are so ball dominant that you know, if

600
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: you have the ball that much, you're going to accumulate stats. Right,

601
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: That's just the kind of that's the reality of.

602
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: It, it is.

603
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: I don't yeah, I don't take any of that stuff now,

604
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 3: Like when you watch people even like a guy like

605
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 3: what's the guy's name that the Lakers had this year

606
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 3: and they got rid of them? Yeah, I mean look

607
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: at his stats and like, he's a great player for sure,

608
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 3: but I don't think he could have played in that

609
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 3: era with Bird and those guys, because you know, he

610
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: can't make jump shots. And those guys just weren't going

611
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: to let him force it force it in there, you know.

612
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: And and no, you would have a you'd have a

613
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: power forward and a center in the lane. Like that's

614
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: the other part too. It is not only could you handscheck,

615
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: but there's two guys in your way.

616
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: Correct. And I tell people all the time, like even Lebron,

617
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: like he's arguably I mean, I don't want to get

618
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: into this, but he's arguably one of the best players

619
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: of all time, there's no doubt about it. But people

620
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: just don't understand, like driving the ball in there against

621
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: Bill and Beer and Horn, like you just didn't. You

622
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 3: won't do that the whole game because you're a normal person. Like,

623
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 3: no matter how tough you are or how strong or

624
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 3: athletic you are, you go in there three or four

625
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: times and you get the heck knocked out of you

626
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 3: and you end up on your back. I mean, common

627
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: sense tells you that you're probably just not going to

628
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 3: do that a whole lot more of the rest of

629
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: the night.

630
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: Think about think about what we're talking about. Okay, So, yes,

631
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: Lebron would be what you know, like maybe he's guarded

632
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: by a morn, but like you said, Mohorne and Lambier

633
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: were both on the floor at the same time. And

634
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: the reason that coaches preached the mid range jump shot

635
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: was out of necessity, sure, because you couldn't get to

636
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: the rim. Jordan was like the first guy to be

637
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: able to get to the rim. You couldn't get to

638
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: the rim, there was no space. So it is a

639
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: it's such a such a different game. All right, that's

640
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: it for part one. We got part two for you

641
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: will drop it probably tomorrow or the next day, but

642
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: I thought you'd appreciate that portion of the conversation and

643
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: coming up in the next all ball, Oh, I think

644
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: way to hear the story of how Jason Houghton met

645
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: his wife the day we record. This was his anniversary

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Speaker 2: and not necessarily as strong a recruiting skills out of

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Speaker 2: the gate as one would think, but he definitely found

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Speaker 2: a keeper. And you'll hear why plus why take What

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Speaker 2: was it like to take the New Mexico State job?

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Speaker 2: Reminded The Doug Gottlieb Show is daily three to five

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Speaker 2: Easter and of course you can check it out on

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Speaker 2: Fox Sports Radio, the iHeartRadio app, Foxsports radio dot com.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening, downloading, subscribing, rating, and reviewing.

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Speaker 2: Send me a tweet at Gottlieb Show if you like it.

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Speaker 1: Jason, it was awesome. This is all ball