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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 1: name is Noel, and Ben your you and if you

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Speaker 1: are one of the people who happens to live in

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Speaker 1: the United States, and you're an average household then you

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Speaker 1: have around one hundred thirty thousand, nine hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: two dollars in debt, and of that, fifteen thousand, seven

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Speaker 1: hundred sixty two dollars can be attributed to credit cards.

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Speaker 1: Holy mackerel, We're starting off on a positive note today,

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Speaker 1: my friends. You know what I think. Again, this is

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Speaker 1: the second time I've been slightly below average the same,

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Speaker 1: you know, but it's it doesn't feel great. Oh wait, no,

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Speaker 1: I am way above average. You got to count the house.

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Speaker 1: Uh if you count mortgage, that's interesting. Okay, well then

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Speaker 1: I'm well above average then, But it doesn't The mortgage

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Speaker 1: kind of count as as an investment. I mean that

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Speaker 1: it depreciates over time, so it's not quite the same

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Speaker 1: as being in debt. But I guess it's looked at

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Speaker 1: that way as by creditors. Yeah, it feels that way

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Speaker 1: now now that I'm thinking about it. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the reason that there's so much debt has been uh

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Speaker 1: talked about at length for a long time by so

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Speaker 1: many people. We often, we being the majority of the

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Speaker 1: public across the globe, we often don't have the best

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Speaker 1: or most sophisticated understanding of what this is. And that's

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Speaker 1: why we as a species become embroiled in these strange

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Speaker 1: situations sometimes when all of a sudden, like consider the

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Speaker 1: Great Depression, Right, people are starving in the cities, right,

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Speaker 1: But in the rural Midwest and the farming country, farmers

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Speaker 1: are throwing milk away and just gutting pigs and saving

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Speaker 1: what they can because the price on those animals and

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Speaker 1: that you know that that beverage, I guess has tanked.

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Speaker 1: Some feels weird about calling milk a beverage, but basically

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying like, that's and and then the reason

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Speaker 1: people would come to find that folks were starving in

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Speaker 1: one place when people were trashing resources in another was

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Speaker 1: due to something called the economy, right and right, and

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Speaker 1: then people would say, people would uh, the pundits would

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Speaker 1: be on the radio. The populist, the nationalists, the whomever

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Speaker 1: is would be on the radio arguing why they alone understood, uh,

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Speaker 1: the one true economy or what that thing should be.

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Speaker 1: And now we're in a world where I guess I

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Speaker 1: want to start off with a question. So did you

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Speaker 1: guys have economics classes in high school or in middle school?

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Speaker 1: I did, but I felt like I feel like it

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Speaker 1: was rolled into something else, or it was like we

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Speaker 1: got half an economics class and then like the other

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Speaker 1: half was was Civics or something like that. You know,

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Speaker 1: but my memory of those days is a little hazy.

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Speaker 1: That's maybe that's made up. I got home ec Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I took not the same thing. No, I mean it

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Speaker 1: was personal finance. It was personal finance. It was all

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Speaker 1: It was all that kind of stuff like how to

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Speaker 1: how to manage your your stuff, But it didn't teach

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Speaker 1: you how the FED worked, No, and I how to

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Speaker 1: how to write a check effectively? Right? What are the

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Speaker 1: things that I always think about? Is you know you're right, Matt.

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Speaker 1: For many people, at least in this country, the closest

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Speaker 1: thing people were offered to a personal finance class in

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Speaker 1: a public school is going to be home economics. However,

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Speaker 1: the individual person would probably be in a much better

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Speaker 1: position today if personal finance classes were mandatory. And I

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Speaker 1: know people don't like big brother federal mandates, but that's

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Speaker 1: an individual education, that is that is necessary to survive,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't get that, and that's why

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Speaker 1: we end up in a country where the total debt

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Speaker 1: oh by US consumers. I can break it down, all right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: let's see now it's time for a breakdown. Right. Oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: youa So what's the pressing one? Do we have a

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Speaker 1: backbeat for this? Oh? Yeah, okay, So credit cards seven

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Speaker 1: hundred thirty three billion dollars pales in comparison, of course,

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Speaker 1: to auto loans one point oh eight trillion dollars. And

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Speaker 1: then we have student loans one point to three trillion dollars,

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Speaker 1: and finally mortgages eight point to five trillion dollars. So

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Speaker 1: all of these numbers, these massive numbers, this is debt

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Speaker 1: um It's money that I guess needs to be paid.

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Speaker 1: What is debt? Exactly? It's called American dream dollars. Oh,

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Speaker 1: as in imaginary dollars, which is this episode today we

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Speaker 1: are talking about that, and that I'm I'm laughing, because no,

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Speaker 1: what you just said ties into so many other episodes

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Speaker 1: we could do. It hit us in our the course

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Speaker 1: of our research before we went on the air this week.

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Speaker 1: That currency itself is just a fascinating weird thing. It's

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Speaker 1: an agreement. We make it totally is It's like it

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Speaker 1: could be shells, you know, good shells, or or or

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Speaker 1: a handful of sand. When you were a kid, did

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Speaker 1: you ever play the game where you just all agreed

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Speaker 1: that the floor was lava. It's like that, but with prizes,

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Speaker 1: and you can move the floor for a bunch of people.

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Speaker 1: I know that's that's a very biased thing, but well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what is what is debt? That that's the question we

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Speaker 1: start with today, even though it's not our ultimate question.

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Speaker 1: So the good, the bad, the ugly of debt, Well,

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Speaker 1: it does do some oh nice copyright. Oh was that

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Speaker 1: Ineo Morricone? Oh man, he's the master my favorite soundtrack.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go listen to that for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the weekend. But the good part about debt, and there

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Speaker 1: are good parts, is that it sort of makes the

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Speaker 1: world go round. What are some of the good things

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Speaker 1: that this debt system does? So in the most bay

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Speaker 1: sick of terms debt is it's it's an I O U.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's without going into the entire history of

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Speaker 1: currency and money. As we know, at one time they

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Speaker 1: used peppercorns. Peppercorns or currency that's got a function. It

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Speaker 1: makes your food nice and spicy. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean many forms of currency were redeemable I O U S.

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Speaker 1: I mean that is essentially what currency boils down to,

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Speaker 1: is the redemable IOU for a good or service, either

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Speaker 1: physically they contain some sort of valuable material a metal, gem,

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Speaker 1: what have you, pooka shell, whatever, um or they were

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Speaker 1: redeemable for the same amount of a different material. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So like an example for folks in the U. S

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Speaker 1: And I know our numbers are pretty US centric at

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Speaker 1: this point, but we can get bigger. Uh. In the US,

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Speaker 1: there were these things called silver certificates, which UH fans

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Speaker 1: of certain JFK assassination theories will be familiar with. And

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Speaker 1: until nineteen before these silver certificates legally could be redeemed

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Speaker 1: for the amount of silver that was mentioned on the currency,

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Speaker 1: and then they stopped. Yep. But the reason, the reason

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Speaker 1: why money, why currency is so important to the functioning

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Speaker 1: of society is that all the goods and services that

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Speaker 1: are available for trading in some way or another, they

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Speaker 1: get boiled down to this common denominator where you have

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Speaker 1: X amount of this and I want to give you this.

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Speaker 1: I have X amount of this. I want to give

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Speaker 1: you this. We can trade with this one thing, rather

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Speaker 1: than having to break down exactly how much a goat

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Speaker 1: is worth in terms of wheat or something like that,

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Speaker 1: or you know, a car in terms of the shelves

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Speaker 1: or T shirts or something strange. Yeah, yeah, know why

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Speaker 1: I'm hung up on puka shelves. I think I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe you could bring it back. I think

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Speaker 1: it's because I went to that widespread Panic concert last

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Speaker 1: night and I saw a lot of those. Yuh, I

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Speaker 1: got a text from you. The three am was just

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Speaker 1: an animated gift of a puka shell dancing furiously, dancing furiously.

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Speaker 1: But what about liquidity? That's interesting and very very very

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Speaker 1: important component of all this. Yeah, that's what you you know,

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Speaker 1: That's that's what we're talking about. Two degrees, that that

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Speaker 1: advantage of this this stand in So I I love

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Speaker 1: what you said earlier, know what you know, the idea

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Speaker 1: that money is essentially debt. Its currency we carry around

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Speaker 1: is a debt. It's an iou that was That was

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Speaker 1: the way you said it. And the reason it works

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Speaker 1: currently is one because everybody agrees that it should and

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Speaker 1: two or virtually everybody agrees. Most people agree, and to

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Speaker 1: the liquidity it offers is so vastly superior to the

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Speaker 1: bartering system for the following thing. Okay, so let's say

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Speaker 1: Matt has Uh Matt is selling what kind of car

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Speaker 1: are you selling, Matt uh coon Tosh. Matt is finally

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Speaker 1: selling his creintage not a real car. Yeah, clearly I'm

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Speaker 1: not a car, but that is still it is creintage.

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Speaker 1: And know you decide you're going to be a car guy,

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Speaker 1: and because money doesn't exist, you're going to break into

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Speaker 1: your puka shell savings. But the problem is that you

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Speaker 1: don't live in the same town, so you have to

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Speaker 1: move this thing, and then you have to also let's

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Speaker 1: say it's a lot of puka how many puka shells

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Speaker 1: do you think you would That's a lot. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: say so too many for knowl to comfortably carry, right,

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Speaker 1: you can't. You'd lose so much. You'd lose so much

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Speaker 1: shell just getting the shells there. So I guess what

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Speaker 1: I have to do is find some sort of financial

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Speaker 1: institution that will take my puka shells from me, put

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Speaker 1: them in some sort of puka shell storage facility, and

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Speaker 1: then give me the equivalent in let's call them Internet

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Speaker 1: moneys that can then be wired or transferred or moved

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Speaker 1: around electronically. Bitcomk sure, bitcomck. That's great, oh man, killing

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Speaker 1: it today, buddy, And then I can send that over

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Speaker 1: the interwebs to the place where I want to pay

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Speaker 1: to me Matt in my banking institution, which only stores

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Speaker 1: contash is right, that's that's courrect. And then they're there there,

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Speaker 1: and you have a very rudimentary, absurdist representation of the

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Speaker 1: way business is done these days. Right, And one of

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Speaker 1: the most important parts there is that null in this

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Speaker 1: situation will then have a representative representative token essentially of

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Speaker 1: a value or an asset that he possesses. So in theory,

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Speaker 1: this promotes stability in trade, and in theory, when nations

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Speaker 1: are involved in mutually beneficial trade agreements, there's more stability

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Speaker 1: in the world. Allegedly, yes, mutually beneficial. Yes, I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna repeat words from that earlier sentence theoretically, So these

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Speaker 1: money systems and these debts ultimately, because that's what they are,

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Speaker 1: they can they can be great for society and help

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Speaker 1: them function and work better together. The problem is they

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Speaker 1: can also wreak massive, disastrous, sometimes even fatal things upon

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Speaker 1: society and individual people. Yeah, you've you may have, at

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Speaker 1: some point in your life met someone who referred to

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Speaker 1: folks who have a nine to five job as wage slaves.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty biased, But the heart of that argument harkens

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Speaker 1: back to the idea of indentured servitude. So indenture servitude

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Speaker 1: would be some deal um. The first one that springs

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Speaker 1: to mind is people who wanted to travel to a

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Speaker 1: different country, right, but could not afford the trip the

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Speaker 1: cost of let's say, hopping a boat across the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: But if you agree to essentially work only for room

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Speaker 1: and board for seven years, then they will consider your

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Speaker 1: debt paid if they're not playing a crooked game, you know, right,

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Speaker 1: And many of those games were crooked. So the argument

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Speaker 1: there would be that wage slaves, as the term goes,

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Speaker 1: our new form of indentured servitude. Uh, we're addicted to

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Speaker 1: an ivy of money, whether that's hourly salary or commission,

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Speaker 1: and we're addicted to that because we're less of a

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Speaker 1: value generator as an individual if we're that person, and

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Speaker 1: more of a node for debt and assets to interact.

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Speaker 1: So you that's why people can make a hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a year or who knows, who knows how high

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Speaker 1: this goes a million dollars a year and still be

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Speaker 1: just buy due to due to crippling debt. And then

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Speaker 1: of course that ties into you know, a similar argument

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Speaker 1: forced labor, and we can save debt or prison for

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Speaker 1: another show, because is that still a thing. It's making

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Speaker 1: come back in some places. Yeah? Wait, I thought it

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Speaker 1: had been here for years, but it's making a comeback

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Speaker 1: with interest here in the US. Men, is it true? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the same equivalent, right a debt or

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Speaker 1: prison where IO debts I can't pay them. Now I

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Speaker 1: have to go live in this cell. Actually, there's that

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Speaker 1: just a hit a story I typed in on Google

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Speaker 1: and one of the instant results was debt or prisons

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Speaker 1: are back? Top hit from fourteen? Is Supreme Court ruling

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Speaker 1: not enough to prevent debtor's prison? Yeah? So you can

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Speaker 1: if you have massive amounts of debt, you can go

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Speaker 1: to prison for it in certain instances. I thought that.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of the stories too that popped

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Speaker 1: up recently, as in the last few years, occurred because

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Speaker 1: there were usurious court fees, legal fees, and when people

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Speaker 1: could not could not pay those fees, they would be

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Speaker 1: incarcerated until such time as those fees were paid, which

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Speaker 1: is surreal. How do you make money to when you're

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Speaker 1: hanging out in a prison all day long, every day.

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Speaker 1: And then of course that brings us to bankruptcy, which,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately the golden parachute, golden parachute which unfortunately too many

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Speaker 1: people are familiar with, and it works differently for the

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Speaker 1: wealthy than it does for the poor, completely differently. Anytime

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Speaker 1: you hear about a regular Joe Schmo declaring bankruptcy, they

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Speaker 1: have to work and scrap and save and hustle for

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Speaker 1: years to get that off their record, to get back

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Speaker 1: to a place where anyone will give them alone again.

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Speaker 1: And as we know, for certain folks that are in

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Speaker 1: the public eye right now, it's happened multiple time times

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem to be any long lasting ramifications

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Speaker 1: for for doing this thing. It's almost more of like

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Speaker 1: a business strategy. It depends Yeah, it depends on how

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Speaker 1: it is structured. And unfortunately, many people whore impoverished and

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Speaker 1: fall into bankruptcy do not have the means or the

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Speaker 1: connections to have someone help them set up these I'm

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Speaker 1: gesturing in the air right now because so much of

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Speaker 1: this stuff is an idea. It's huge, it's huge, it is.

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Speaker 1: And then there's another one medical bills. This is also

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Speaker 1: we're at this point, ladies and gentlemen, We're just giving

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Speaker 1: you the lay of the land of debt in the US. So,

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Speaker 1: regardless of the political stance, regardless of what television channel

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Speaker 1: is most often trying to convince you to believe something,

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Speaker 1: the fact remains that for the vast majority of the

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Speaker 1: city of citizens, the United States has the most inefficient

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Speaker 1: and ex spensive health care system in the developed world.

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Speaker 1: This is not just a country where people die because

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Speaker 1: a disease or a condition is incurable. This is a

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Speaker 1: country where people die because they cannot afford a treatment.

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Speaker 1: And for some people that is a great tragedy. For

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Speaker 1: other people, that is uh a result of the individual's

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Speaker 1: decisions and is how it is, how it goes. But

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Speaker 1: the reason we bring this up for the purposes of

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Speaker 1: this show is because medical bills in this country are

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Speaker 1: a leading cause of bankruptcy. They're leading cause of people

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Speaker 1: uh going into crippling debt. And we have current debt issues,

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Speaker 1: a lot of which are medically related. Yeah, when you

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Speaker 1: look at the country overall and debts that are kind

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Speaker 1: of hanging out waiting for the national government to pay.

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Speaker 1: The first one is social security, and we looked at

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Speaker 1: the summary of the annual report by the Social Security

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Speaker 1: and Medicare Board of Trustees, which sounds like a fun

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Speaker 1: place to work. They note that over the eighty year

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Speaker 1: history of the Social social Security program, it's collected roughly

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Speaker 1: nineteen trillion dollars and paid out sixteen point one trillion dollars,

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Speaker 1: leaving its asset reserves currently at two point eight trillion

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Speaker 1: at the end by the end off. Now here's here's

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Speaker 1: the problem. The ratio of reserves to one year's projected cost.

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Speaker 1: It peaked in two thousand eight, and then it's been

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Speaker 1: declining up until two thousand fifteen, and it's it's expected

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Speaker 1: to decline even further until they're completely depleted in twenty

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Speaker 1: four which means this money that's supposed to go to

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Speaker 1: help families with retirement, people who have disabilities, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of issues, people that need this money to

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Speaker 1: survive that we all pay into. When you're a wage

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Speaker 1: worker in the US, it's just gonna be gone. And

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Speaker 1: that's something that's just kind of looming there in the

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Speaker 1: horizon that we have to think about. And the same

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Speaker 1: goes for Medicare, which is, uh, you know, dwindling quickly.

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Speaker 1: All these all these huge the huge amount of money

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Speaker 1: that are owed essentially on paper to people who once

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Speaker 1: they reach a certain age, needs to be paid out right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And the one of the issues with this is that

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Speaker 1: at various times the money for both of those programs

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Speaker 1: has been either controversially redistributed or maybe misunderestimated is a

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Speaker 1: good word. Misunderestimated I like that. But yeah, there it's

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Speaker 1: two serious issues that we're going to have to face

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Speaker 1: at some point. And in that group we just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: they're saying that legislation needs to be enacted sooner or

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Speaker 1: later to minimize the impact on beneficiaries human beings who

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Speaker 1: are going to need that money. So what's uh, what

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Speaker 1: what's the international state of debt here? Well, according to

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Speaker 1: National Debt clocks dot org. Worldwide national debt stands at

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Speaker 1: sixty trillion, nine one billion, three hundred and thirty two

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Speaker 1: million and counting. That seems like a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: It seems like mad money, made up money, imaginary money.

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Speaker 1: If it's the number that's too big to be real,

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Speaker 1: I mean that that sounds alarmist. But whenever I see

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Speaker 1: this stuff on paper, I'm just like, this is No

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Speaker 1: one's ever expecting to get paid back all of this money.

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Speaker 1: It's the debt itself is its own function, serves its

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Speaker 1: own function, as we've talked about, its own Financial Instruction Act,

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Speaker 1: you know, And that if it's fascinating to me, and

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Speaker 1: I think for some people that idea maybe makes them

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Speaker 1: more willing to go into debt because it's sort of like, well,

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Speaker 1: if if we're running a deficit as a country, why

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Speaker 1: can't I run a little bit of a deficit? Can't?

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Speaker 1: You should have the stuff, you know, it's something I

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Speaker 1: want to live the dream. And it's easy to get credit.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to have that much equity to get credit.

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Speaker 1: You just have to have a decent paying job and

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Speaker 1: not an absurdly low credit score. It's not hard. Well,

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Speaker 1: in this case, we're talking about countries themselves. I know

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Speaker 1: I'm saying perspective wise. I think when you see these

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Speaker 1: kinds of numbers and you hear about how much you

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Speaker 1: know the United States is in debt, etcetera, it almost

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Speaker 1: makes you say, well, well, hell, you know what, why

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Speaker 1: not me who cares? Right? It doesn't seem like anyone

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Speaker 1: is getting paid back, so why not just roll the

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Speaker 1: dice and emphasize is this perspective? Further, let's break it

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Speaker 1: down by the top owing countries in the world. Now

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Speaker 1: it's time for another breakdown. Russia hundred forty seven point

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Speaker 1: six billion, Australia point four billion, Canada eight hundred and

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Speaker 1: fourteen point seven billion, United Kingdom two point three trillion,

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Speaker 1: China five point four trillion, Japan eight point nine trillion.

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Speaker 1: United States all together now three trillion nine. Why did

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Speaker 1: I do a fake air horn? I guess you could

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Speaker 1: just put one in talking about that was the best

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Speaker 1: air horn I've ever heard of my life. Ben, I

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Speaker 1: know I'm prone to hypperbotly, but I really do believe that.

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Speaker 1: So that's a significant proportion of the overall global debt

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Speaker 1: that the US holds right there, which you know worries

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Speaker 1: me a little bit. So how does that break down

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Speaker 1: for person met going perspective? Okay, so there are three

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty three million humans roughly in the United

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Speaker 1: States right now citizens, and you know nineteen point three trillion.

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Speaker 1: That amounts to just under sixty thousand dollars of national

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Speaker 1: debt per u S citizen, and it represents one hundred

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Speaker 1: and seven percent of the country's gross domestic product year

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Speaker 1: over year. So if somehow we could stop paying, stop

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Speaker 1: all payments on everything in this country for a year,

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Speaker 1: you know, we'd be able to pay off our national debt,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of cool. Now, let's also emphasize that

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Speaker 1: this is not the This is not the same kind

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Speaker 1: of debt that you might encounter if you have a

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Speaker 1: student loan or Absolutely, this is not the same kind

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Speaker 1: debt you would encounter if you purchased, um, a moped. Sure, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And and all the numbers that we've discussed here in

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Speaker 1: in our breakdown, and the one about the the sixty

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Speaker 1: dollars per person, these are very basic, base level numbers.

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Speaker 1: And if you get deeper down in the accounting, it

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Speaker 1: gets it gets really tricky. And I was trying to

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Speaker 1: familiarize myself and understand it. But you guys, it's difficult, right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: None of us are classically trained economist, and we would

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Speaker 1: love to hear from any economist in the audience, would

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Speaker 1: love to hear your opinion on the state of debt.

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Speaker 1: Fun fact, though I am a classically trained violinist, it

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Speaker 1: is true. That is awesome. You're a man many talents.

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Speaker 1: I have a little story for for us relating to

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Speaker 1: the U S National debt. Would you like to hear

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Speaker 1: it and come at me with it? All right? Okay?

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Speaker 1: I was there was There was hesitation there, all right.

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Speaker 1: So the story comes from a guy named Jason see Linkman.

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Speaker 1: Jason Selingman, you see, was an economist, and he's quite

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Speaker 1: good at his job, so good in fact, that he

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Speaker 1: worked Pennsylvania Avenue, or he worked his boss lived there,

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Speaker 1: he worked for the president. That's how good he was.

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Speaker 1: And he was tortured at this time because he was

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Speaker 1: thinking for sixteen hours a day on this project he

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Speaker 1: was working on for his boss, a report that he

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Speaker 1: was going to write for his boss. And in that

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Speaker 1: report he ran into a realization that might stun a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, and he wrote with with his team

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Speaker 1: a report called Life After Debt, which they submitted to

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Speaker 1: then President Bill Clinton and which journalists got a hold

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Speaker 1: of years later through a Freedom of Information Act requests.

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Speaker 1: And Life After Debt is a report that you can

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Speaker 1: read it for free online. It is a report that

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Speaker 1: outlined what would happen if the US paid down its

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Speaker 1: debt to zero. And they wrote this in December of

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Speaker 1: two thousand, because that's the year the U. S. Treasury

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Speaker 1: began actively buying back public debt, creating um, you know,

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Speaker 1: digging its way out of the financial hole was in.

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Speaker 1: But they realized, Jason realized eventually that while there is

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Speaker 1: such a thing as too much debt for countries, there's

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Speaker 1: also such a thing as too little debt. So countries

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Speaker 1: don't want to necessary rely have a surplus. In many

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Speaker 1: cases it's unreasonable outside of you know, a few a

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Speaker 1: few countries like the like Nordic countries, un some oil

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Speaker 1: oil wealth countries. So what we see is that the

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Speaker 1: international level understanding of debt and the individual levels to

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Speaker 1: understand debt is different. Not all debt is created equally.

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Speaker 1: Businesses will go into debt and have specialized, custom fit

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Speaker 1: or bespoke plans for balancing that debt. However, someone who

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Speaker 1: was built into a series of high, high interest credit

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Speaker 1: cards or student loans will often not have that sort

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Speaker 1: of recourse. Here in this country, there are federal programs

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Speaker 1: that are so opposed to provide assistance for people who

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Speaker 1: have the misfortune of not being a business or a

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Speaker 1: country when they go into debt. However, much more money

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Speaker 1: is spent by the folks who make money off of

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Speaker 1: credit cards and student loans to make sure that system continues.

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Speaker 1: And as of now, debt what we've explained so far, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there is an inequality of debt. Not all debt is

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Speaker 1: created equal, not all people are in debt. But debt

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Speaker 1: is a problem for a lot of individuals, especially here

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Speaker 1: in the West. But the truth of the matter is

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Speaker 1: debt makes the world go round. So we were asking

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Speaker 1: ourselves a few weeks back, what would happen if we

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Speaker 1: woke up one day and all of the debt disappeared.

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Speaker 1: We'll find out right after a quick message from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. All right, everyone, it's story time.

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Speaker 1: Let's imagine a scenario where this actually happened, where where

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Speaker 1: through some act of massive buffoonery, sorcery. It's not something

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Speaker 1: insane happened, and Mr Noel Brown wakes up in a

428
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: world free from debt. Ah, I can hear how relax

429
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: he is exactly look at this world free from debt. Yeah. Well,

430
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: the great news is if he had any student loans,

431
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: medical bills, credit cards, mortgage to automatically, he'd be in

432
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: the clear for all those debts. It's gone. What a

433
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: time to be alive, guys. So so what what we do?

434
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: Of course he would take some he would want to

435
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: get to take some cash, get on that first dream

436
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: trip with his you know, his honey, his squeeze, his

437
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: girl every and uh, naturally they would go to Borneo.

438
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: That would go to Borneo, and go to Borneo. But wait,

439
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: there would be some problems here. Oh, to get the

440
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: tickets to Borneo, Noel Brown has to buy them, and

441
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: the debit card he tries to use to buy the

442
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: ticket doesn't work because the bank that runs that debit

443
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: card is in a tail spin because debt no longer exists.

444
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: And the dirty open secret about banks, I don't know

445
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: if it's necessarily call it dirty, it's just how they work.

446
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: Is that the money in Noel Brown's account was used

447
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: to be a loan to someone else. Yeah, Rain Capital

448
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: used it to invest in a small company in Atlanta

449
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, And that's when that's when

450
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: Noel Brown has to explain to this woman that he

451
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: loves he was going to take it on a magical

452
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: romantic get away to Borneo. Why they can't go to Borneo?

453
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: And he gives her his following speech. Well, you see,

454
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: as it turns out, most of the money in the

455
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: world is really just someone else's debt. Yeah. The money

456
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: in your bank account, my bank account, our joint bank

457
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: account because we're in love, is mostly on loan to

458
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: other people. Why. Yeah, the bank they took our money

459
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: and they used it to give someone else a car loan,

460
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: to give someone else a home loan, to give someone

461
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: else a loan to buy a suite new computer. Oh

462
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: but wait, there's more. There's an upside here for the banks. Yeah,

463
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: they get to use some sneaky accounting, very tricksy accounting,

464
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: and by doing that they don't have to hold every

465
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: one's money all of the time. It's a it's sort

466
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: of a game of you know, back and forth. It's

467
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: being moved around all over the place. They just hold

468
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: some of the money, and by some we're talking a

469
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: tiny fraction. So at the height of the financial crisis

470
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, many banks were actually leveraged at

471
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: a ratio of thirty to one. Then, can you clarify that? Yes,

472
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: So in this scenario, I've I've showed up at Noel's

473
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: house and he's explaining to the love of his life

474
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: they can't go to boardio. Well know, we're at the airport.

475
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: Oh you're at the airport. Oh okay, alright, cool, Now

476
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: I feel underdressed because I'm obviously in my jammie's. But

477
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: I only go to the airport in my jammie's. I

478
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: think that's the only time I've ever said the word jammies. Alright,

479
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: rule of three. So to clarify, Noel Brown, in his

480
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: moving tragic speed, will be telling this this uh love

481
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: of his life and whomever else is going to go

482
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: with them, that his bank account and all bank accounts

483
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: are essentially emptied unless the bank magically replenishes the account,

484
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: which would throw things into chaos. But you know, it

485
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: is a series of key strokes on a computer screen.

486
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: At least we have the fdi C that ensures up

487
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: to a certain amount, right, right, But a bank no

488
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: longer has a reason to exist as its sole purpose

489
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: for from this perspective, is to move debt around every

490
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: stock exchange. While Noel Brown is delivering this speech in

491
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: Hartsfield Airport, I imagine you're in Hartsfield, of course. Okay, Uh,

492
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: every stock exchange closes, Noel's investment portfolio is wiped out.

493
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: The puka shells he still has, but any puka shell futures,

494
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: any uh puka shell short short stocks, And I'm just

495
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: making upwards. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna need that countosh back. Sorry,

496
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: I hope you don't mind, because an investment is just

497
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: funding someone else's debt with the promise or the hope

498
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: of getting more back in return, but no one will

499
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: pay you back. And also, uh, Noel and his sweeties

500
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: retirement funds, they have one along with everybody else's. Also

501
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: poof vanish. There's a guy named Thomas Dalton who I

502
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: think described this really well. What would happen if lenders

503
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: wrote off all debts he sets is that there would

504
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: be a massive transfer of wealth from net lenders to

505
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: net borrowers. The net lenders of the world are things

506
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: like governments right uh, and young adults are We are

507
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: often net borrowers, and those close to retirement are often

508
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: net lenders because pension funds invest by lending at least

509
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: some of the money out. So what would happen if

510
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: debt was erased would be a massive transfer of well

511
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: from the old to the young and to governments. And

512
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: Dalton also says we can make a mistake by thinking

513
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: of this as a transfer of wealth from the rich

514
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,479
Speaker 1: to the poor, but it wouldn't work that way because

515
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: the very poor don't usually have much debt. No one

516
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: is willing to lend to them. It's only those with

517
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: large incomes or assets or potential incomes that build up

518
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: significant debt. So depending on what governments do now that

519
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: they're free from paying interest on their debts, they were

520
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: never going to actually pay back the debts, so it's

521
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: just the interest. The poor might benefit from extra government spending, however,

522
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: it might be the rich that benefit from tax cuts.

523
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: Pensioners and those who are getting to retirement age would

524
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: have some serious difficulties. The super wealthy, says Dalton, may

525
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: lose some money, but they usually invest in equity rather

526
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: than debt. So since the companies they own often have

527
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: a lot of debt, the share prices would probably increase enormously,

528
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: assuming of course, that the stock market would still be around,

529
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: which is debatable. And then he said, in addition, institutional

530
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: lenders would all be bankrupt, banks, insurance companies, pension funds,

531
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: the world economy would probably collapse, and to be honest,

532
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: everyone would suffer erasing all debt. This that that's his quotation.

533
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: In our opinion, a racing all debt is the nuclear

534
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: weapon of economic warfare, which sounds kind of heady until

535
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: we realize that economic warfare already exist today. It's occurred

536
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: in the past. We've talked about it a little bit

537
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: before with a guy named John Perkins who wrote a

538
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: book called Confessions of an Economic hit Man, and what

539
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: she says he worked for an engineering company in Boston,

540
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: and his job was to convince leaders of underdeveloped countries

541
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: to accept development loans for construction and engineering projects, and

542
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: having a condition of those loans be that the projects

543
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: went to US companies, and these loans would later give

544
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: the US government influence and access to natural resources. And

545
00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: we have a quote from the book that we're going

546
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: to read here. Economic hitmen are highly paid professionals who

547
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars.

548
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: They funnel money from the World Bank, the US Agency

549
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: for International Development, and other foreign aid organizations into the

550
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few

551
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: wealthy families who control the planets and natural resources. Their

552
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: tools included fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex,

553
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: and murder. They play a game that is old as empire,

554
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: but one that has taken on a new and terrifying

555
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 1: dimension during this time of globalization. And this is something

556
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: we've explored before. Uh often referred to as resource extraction.

557
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: So that's one example of how economic warfare could work,

558
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: and that would pale in comparison to the economic warfare

559
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: of erasing all debt, regardless of the intention behind it.

560
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: Erasing on that would be strange. But how how could

561
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: this We're talking about the ideas, right, and we've talked

562
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: about the numbers of debt, But let's talk about how

563
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: this could work. How could someone a race debt well

564
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: to do this? We look at some examples from pop culture,

565
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: because that's really the only place where this has been

566
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: fully explored. Yeah, and there's some fun ones, and I

567
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: mean it's it's like one of the ones that comes

568
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: to mind, UM that we haven't explicitly discussed together is

569
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: the movie Escape from l A, where at the end

570
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: they we are going to get into some spoiler territory here.

571
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: You also, if we're mentioning a movie or something and

572
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to know what happens, you should probably

573
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: skip ahead maybe seven minutes or so, or you know,

574
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: go back ten years and watch Escape from you know,

575
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: it's it's on it's on the Netflix. I think you

576
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: can get it. But at the end of Escape from

577
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: l A, there's a device that essentially shuts down all electricity.

578
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: It's down even batteries. They make a point in it

579
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: to say like, oh, this will even like render all

580
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: batteries useless. And yeah, so this is sort of like

581
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: a super extreme version where it's like an all encompassing

582
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: attack that would not only get rid of all dead

583
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: as we know it, but pretty much reduced you know,

584
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: humanity too, back to the dark Age as we need

585
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: to you know, start over. But a really good one

586
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: that does specifically deal with UM actually targeting financial Corporations.

587
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: Is Fight Club nine, David Fincher film based on the

588
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: novel by Chuck palinak Um. There are some pretty significant

589
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: differences between the novel and the and the film, but

590
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: they do a pretty good job of having a very

591
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: similar let's say, mission statements. So in Fight Club, um,

592
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: they're the group of these kind of project yeah, project mayhem,

593
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: that's right, sort of a bunch of like depressed, overly

594
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: macho males, middle aged. Yeah. They want to fight back

595
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: because they feel like they've been marginalized as by society.

596
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: They are angry. Um. Honestly, their motivations are not particularly

597
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: um positive. They're not really trying to help anybody. They

598
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: just kind of want to watch the world burn a

599
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: little bit um in my opinion. That's that's what I

600
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: take from it. But in order to do this, they

601
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: stage an attack what could reasonably be considered a terrorist

602
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: attack on the corporate headquarters of several large credit card companies.

603
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: I think there seven buildings that are destroyed during the

604
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: en scene, which to me is such an iconic scene,

605
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: and it's the first place I ever heard the Pixies

606
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: uh song where is My Like who is this band?

607
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: And then I you know, I was down a rabbit hole.

608
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: From then on here we are so Um. Even at

609
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: the time, I always thought this was sort of a

610
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: little bit of a rudimentary example of wiping out the debt,

611
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: because it's like, surely these things are backed up elsewhere,

612
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, not just in the building, And by blowing

613
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: up a building alone, you're not white being out the debt.

614
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: It would require some sort of deep infiltration of an

615
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: entire file system and structure and network, getting much more

616
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: into hacker territory before we get there, though, little bit

617
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: of an interesting fact toy that Matt turned me onto. Um,

618
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: did you guys know that in the novel Fight Club

619
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: it takes place in Wilmington's, Delaware. Do you guys remember

620
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: twelve o nine North Orange Street, the Corporation Trust Center,

621
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: the official address of over two companies, Willington, Delaware. Um,

622
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: there's a couple of little inklings in the film that

623
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: it takes place there as well. But I thought that

624
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: was a pretty clever non And this address keeps popping

625
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: up for us. We're gonna have to do. I think

626
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to do like a whole episode this address.

627
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 1: Let's take it. Let's let's go there physically, listeners, let

628
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: us know if you was to go there, maybe we

629
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: can meet up to hang out. So, like I said,

630
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't feel like this sample holds up.

631
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: This is more of sort of an anarchist kind of

632
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: like I said, watch the World burn kind of thing.

633
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: But um, we have we have a really good example

634
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: in our our wonderful sponsors. As it turns out, Mr

635
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: robot Um the series involving a sort of anonymous esque

636
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: society of hackers called f Society who orchestrates a very

637
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: high level cyber attack against E Corp, which to me

638
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: is I think a very clever stand in for Enron

639
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: maybe or like any other giant corporation or financial financial

640
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: levels or something. Sure. Um, and to me, this is

641
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: this is how you would you would do this. If

642
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: you were going to attempt to do some kind of

643
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: to orchestrate some kind of complete erasure of the debt record,

644
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: it would have to be through infiltrating these systems, not

645
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: just blowing up a building or one computer or one

646
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: set of servers. Yeah, and they and they do. Uh,

647
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: I guess it's a two pronged attack in there may

648
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: even be more than that that we just don't understand,

649
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: uh as viewers and you know, in the world of

650
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: Mr Robot. But they do it by using this thing

651
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: called Interpreter, which is a meta saploite backdoor. And the

652
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: main character, Elliott, goes into the main servers of e Corp,

653
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: installs a really simple program like an e x C

654
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: file on their server, which then gives them and and

655
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: easy to access back door to the servers so they

656
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: can go in. It's crazy. It uses memory, so it's

657
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: not actually writing anything to disk, it's just using the

658
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: RAM on the on the machine to create this backdoor.

659
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: I don't pretend to understand the hacking tools, but according

660
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: to numerous people online who are actually in the info

661
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: sex space and all this, they're saying that, yes, this

662
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: is this is real. You could do this and you

663
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: could delete information if you had this kind of backdoor.

664
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: And like I've said about the show, I mean it

665
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: definitely gets a lot of this stuff right. Even like

666
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: the when you see the dude doing his hacking, it

667
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: looks like command line things instead of some sort of

668
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: bizarrow like three D rendering of the Internet as it

669
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: would be if you were floating around and hackers or something. Yeah,

670
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 1: I was thinking of that nineties film Hackers as well.

671
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: Uh so what would be hit in these things? Insurance companies, Banks.

672
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: Insurance companies are bigger depositories of this kind of value

673
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: than you might think. There would also, of course, be

674
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: government institutions. This would be stuff like this would have

675
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 1: to involve treasuries as well as mints. This, this would

676
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: involve a simultaneous attack on thousands of things. Would be

677
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: very difficult to do. It also makes me wonder as

678
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: a little off, But it also makes me wonder if

679
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: someone had that power, why stop at debt? Why not

680
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: also erase repositories of personal information so like medical info? Uh,

681
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: you know the metadata that the National Snooping Administration collects

682
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: from you the Facebook servers. Yeah, and we talked a

683
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: little bit about the attack strategies. I think when you

684
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: mentioned the escape from l a scenario of effectively cutting

685
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: off electronics stuff. Right, what does this What does this

686
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: cloud money mean if we cannot access the cloud? Yeah,

687
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: if you would have to kill electricity indefinitely in order

688
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: to make that work, because there are you know, all

689
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: of these huge institutions like Iron Mountain that holds sensitive

690
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: data like this they've got him like crazy generators and

691
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: backup power and all this other. Not to mention, they

692
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: keep backups on like physical tapes and you know, like

693
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: stuff that would stand the test of time and a vault,

694
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, and they're constantly updating these things and backing

695
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: up all their all their data. So yeah, absolutely, in

696
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: the old days of my family, it was very different. Uh,

697
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: there were things that would happen when somebody wanted to

698
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: get and we wanted information to disappear. And mean, think

699
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: about it. We live in a time where just less

700
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: than what a hundred years ago, even up to the

701
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies eighties, if a right definitely sixties or so,

702
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: if a bank or a courthouse burned, then there would

703
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: be no evidence of debt or arrests or records. There

704
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: were people in my family were not true when they

705
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 1: were born because yeah, because someone burned a courthouse or two. Yeah,

706
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: and uh this I mean, but we no longer live

707
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: in that world because there are multiple copies of these records,

708
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: which leads us to why it probably wouldn't work if

709
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about global debt records. Yeah, so in the

710
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: world of Mr Robot, it does work. Um, and that's

711
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: because Ecorp. Evil Corp. Owns roughly se of the consumer

712
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: credit industry, which is a bit hard to fathom. In

713
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: our world, it means they would just own as subsidiaries

714
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: let's say Capital One and most of the Visa other

715
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: companies that use Visa or MasterCard or any of those.

716
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: I feel like, in theory we have laws in place

717
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: to prevent things like that from happening. Well, you know,

718
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: hopefully it doesn't happen in the future for us, you know,

719
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: But but in our world it's and this is not debatable.

720
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: These various industries, from credit cards, mortgages, student loans, health insurance,

721
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: all of these are controlled by hundreds and hundreds of

722
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 1: separate compe eating companies. Like you said earlier, Ben, and

723
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: you would have to I mean, you would have to

724
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: strike at a huge number of locations in order to

725
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: make this happen. Um. In fact, almost all the computers. Um.

726
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: And Okay, so let's say you were able to take

727
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: out a single huge international credit card company. Look, I'm

728
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: just using Capital One. Sorry, capital I'm just using it

729
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: because I have your credit card. Um, it would be

730
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: this tiny, itsy bitsy little dent in the all encompassing

731
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: global debt machine that exists all around us, right, and

732
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: there's so many eyes watching this as well. There are multiple,

733
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: multiple international, state level and even local institutions that are

734
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,280
Speaker 1: tasked with doing this. But then there's another thing, which

735
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: is uh. Many countries maintain a reserve of actual resources

736
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: rather than just currencies. So the US has you've probably heard,

737
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: a strategic reserve of petrol. Uh, the US has strategic

738
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: reserves of valuable metals, right, And other countries do the

739
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: same thing. And then we have other reserves of other

740
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: people's currencies. So if you hit one country, then the

741
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 1: currency that didn't get hit, that money will just become

742
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: more valuable. So think of these reserves as massive savings accounts.

743
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: They fluctuate as spending is needed. Uh. In some countries,

744
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: those reserves are uh dwindling, these currency reserves. Right. So

745
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: here's just a few examples. And some countries these reserves

746
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: are dwindling. You're getting low. According to the World Bank,

747
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: the US had five hundred and seventy four billion in

748
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: total reserves in the reserves fell below a hundred and

749
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: seven billion UM. But in other countries these reserves are

750
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: actually skyrocketing. In two thousand, China held a hundred and

751
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: seventy two billion, and that's in US dollars correct, And

752
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: in China's reserves jumped to a whopping three point three

753
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: four trillion, yes, trillion. And there are numerous reasons behind this. Uh.

754
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: Some have to do with the importance of one currency

755
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: versus another or treasury bonds. Another has to do with

756
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: trade versus currency or trade balance, and overall strategies of

757
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 1: where you're where you're going with your country. And it's

758
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: it's a fascinating thing that I think, Ben, maybe we

759
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: should look at in the future. Okay, yeah, I agreed. Uh.

760
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: And especially if this interest you, ladies and gentlemen, we

761
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: we can cover it. There's the other, the other factor

762
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: here that disaster recovery data backups. Something happens. Let's say

763
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: there is an attempt, well, the Mr Robots scenario, as

764
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: they said, for makes a little more sense than to

765
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: demolish the building's plan and fight club, because they're targeting

766
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: servers as well as backup data stores. And these things

767
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: have started to become common place in the nineties seventies

768
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: when people began to realize how um Matt you described

769
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: it best. When we said, insanely dependent we are we

770
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: as a species become on computers and the data contained

771
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: within those. So the strategies are redundancy plus off site

772
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: and cloud storage. The records of what is what and

773
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: when exists in multiple places, uh, which is also strange

774
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: because that kind of thing that not omnipresence but I

775
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: guess by location, is one of the miracles sometimes attributed

776
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: to saints. So going back to our earlier thing about

777
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: modern mythology, in a way, through robotics were through electronics

778
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: and computing, we are once again building the miracles of old,

779
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: but in a very strange way. So when we're looking

780
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: at this, the question is what is the stuff they

781
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: don't want you to know? More immediately? Who are they? Well,

782
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: at this point we can say we we feel we

783
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 1: feel pretty secure, saying that. One of the problems with

784
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: learning objectively about everything from individual finance to the financial

785
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: food fight that is international relations, uh and food fight

786
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: being you know, an allusion to the resources. Uh. The

787
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: what what we're seeing is that it's tough to learn

788
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: this because the people who can teach you have agendas.

789
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: So you learned this first, Huh, Well, the people who

790
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: can teach you will have agendas and that you know,

791
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: naturally I can tie into almost anything that we learn.

792
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: You know, somebody who is an Egyptologist is going to

793
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: have a very different opinion about the importance of Egypt

794
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: and civilization. Right. Sure, but in this case the stakes

795
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: are high and their currency, right. And I mean, of

796
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: course we're not denigrating Egypt, which is enormously influential. But

797
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: but but yeah, maybe archaeology is a bad comparison. I

798
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: think that's that's a great point though. If you ask

799
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: uh uh an economist from the US versus an economist

800
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: from China and economists from Russia or Iran, you're going

801
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 1: to receive different answers. And they're not necessarily the wrong

802
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: answers from that economist, they're the they're the answers that

803
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: most benefit that perspective. Right. And this means that in

804
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: our conversations Noel, Matt and I may have different perspectives,

805
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't This is a case where if we disagree,

806
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean one of us is wrong. Well, let's

807
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: get down to it. I mean, at the end of

808
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: the day, economics isn't an exact science. There are different

809
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: school of thought that are deep rooted in older schools

810
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: of thought, you know, and uh, like you said, just

811
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: because one person has a particular perspective doesn't necessarily mean

812
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: they're wrong, and the true answer might be somewhere in

813
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: between combining different perspectives. There's a pophy. There's a lot

814
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 1: of philosophy. Always use ideogy exactly, but it's it's very

815
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: it's not I don't want to say that it's imprecise.

816
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 1: I think that's that's short selling it just a little bit,

817
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: because I mean, obviously there is a lot of detailed,

818
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: high level thinking that goes into this, but it's much

819
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: more like a theory, you know, than it is a formula.

820
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: We also did not we also haven't looked at what

821
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: would happen if a concentrated segment or type of debt

822
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: were a race. If just for instance, just more how

823
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: specific do we want to go. Gent's just mortgages on

824
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: ranch style homes are just wiped out, Like what would that?

825
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: That would still have a ripple, less of an effect,

826
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: but it would still happen. I thought it would have

827
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: a ripple. If you know, all loans for any kind

828
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: of watercraft, you know, like a sailboat or a jet

829
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 1: ski it would have many ripples. I think I was

830
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: worth it. Or so, we we've talked a little bit

831
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: about the consequences, the the they the stuff they don't

832
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: want you to know. For this episode, the stuff will

833
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: be the state of economy, debt in the world, affecting

834
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: individual debt, an individual debt affecting the action of states,

835
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: the and the existence of currency. Yeah, you know, is

836
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: it just? Is it truly just? And I owe you?

837
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 1: Is it simply a system of coupons that future historians

838
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: will find, uh will put on the par of lost religions? Right?

839
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: I mean that's an extreme point of view, and that's

840
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: an extreme way to phrase that question. But what do

841
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 1: you think, ladies and gentlemen. We we spent some time

842
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: on this one, so we're going to head out of here,

843
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 1: but we would like to hear from you any stories

844
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 1: you have that you think more people should know about debt,

845
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 1: whether individual or international. What you think, if anything could

846
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: be changed to fix this or is this perfect the

847
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: way it is? Most importantly, do you think the world's

848
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: debt should be a race despite the frankly certain and

849
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: inevitable consequences, Because I'll say my personal perspective here even

850
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: if there were some kind of financial kill switch, a

851
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: reset button that would take debt to zero, Eventually debt

852
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: would a system of debt would evolve. Puka Shells. You

853
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: are on the ground floor, my man. So you can

854
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts on Facebook and Twitter. You

855
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: can also follow us on Instagram where conspiracy stuff on

856
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter where conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. And

857
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: if you have feedback for this, we'd love to hear

858
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: from you. Even more importantly, if you have a suggestion

859
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: for an upcoming episode, we'd love to hear that because

860
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: our best shows come from your suggestion. Before we drop

861
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: that little tidbit on you, um, I just want to

862
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: say one more time. If you guys listen to the

863
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: show on iTunes, if you listen to the show on Spotify, Stitcher,

864
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: any place you listen to it, if there's a spot

865
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: where you can drop a little review, uh and you

866
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: have something positive to say, please do so. We really

867
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Kind of helps people discover the show, and

868
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: as been likes to say, it makes us less likely

869
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: to get get canned. So if you want to say

870
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: something super personal and you don't want to do any

871
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: of the other things, that we've just mentioned. You can

872
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: send us an email. We are conspiracy at how stuff

873
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: works dot com.