Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
Speaker 1: with on our radio.
Speaker 2: It's Almost Famous podcast.
Speaker 3: We are here for a very unexpected episode after a
Speaker 3: very unexpected event happened in Bachelor Nation. Matt James and
Speaker 3: Rachel if you haven't heard yet, announced they're split a
Speaker 3: little about a week ago, and just recently Rachel came
Speaker 3: out and spoke publicly on the Call Her Daddy podcast.
Speaker 3: We're here today to break down the interview and give
Speaker 3: our thoughts on what and the world happened.
Speaker 4: Ashley, Wow, Ben, Well, first off, you said that they
Speaker 4: announced their breakup. We know that very much. He announced
Speaker 4: their breakup and it was shocking, shocking that he would
Speaker 4: decide to do that three hours after the actual breakup,
Speaker 4: especially as she is about to take off on a
Speaker 4: twelve hour flight from Tokyo back to the US. She
Speaker 4: talks about on the interview how he even knew that
Speaker 4: she wasn't to be able to get Wi Fi on
Speaker 4: the plane. So how she found out that he posted
Speaker 4: about their breakup was a friend texted her just before
Speaker 4: she had to put her phone in airplane mode, and
Speaker 4: then she goes to Instagram, sees his posts and then
Speaker 4: legit the plane takes off, she loses service, and she
Speaker 4: has to just wonder what the world is saying for
Speaker 4: twelve hours. Ben, what was your takeaway from all that
Speaker 4: we learned, including that during this interview.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would love to try to. I mean,
Speaker 3: breakups are always interesting on that in Bachelor Nation, breakups
Speaker 3: are hard, and I think Alex did a great job
Speaker 3: during this interview of bringing to light just how hard
Speaker 3: breakups are and the healthy part of breakups and the
Speaker 3: unhealthy things that happened with him breakups. To hear a
Speaker 3: lot of their relationship throughout this interview, and I think
Speaker 3: there's a few things, if we can start there that
Speaker 3: really stand out to me, not really how they met
Speaker 3: and even some of the stuff on the end of
Speaker 3: the show and how they broke up and all that.
Speaker 4: Like they got the first half an hour you could
Speaker 4: skip through if you guys want to go listen to it.
Speaker 4: If you want the full story and you want the
Speaker 4: background about the controversy back in twenty twenty and all that,
Speaker 4: watch the first half an hour. But if you want
Speaker 4: to get to the current stuff, fast forward to about
Speaker 4: thirty five minutes and.
Speaker 2: This is the part Ashley.
Speaker 3: I think that first jumped out to me, I watched
Speaker 3: the whole thing, which I typically would never do, but
Speaker 3: I was, for whatever, gerious, here's why I need your thoughts.
Speaker 3: The first part that stood out to me was Rachel
Speaker 3: kind of getting into the moments or the days before
Speaker 3: the breakup where the enter. Yeah, I am not a
Speaker 3: relationship expert, by no me and I really, you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes am shocked that I have a wife that still
Speaker 3: loves me.
Speaker 4: You know what. I feel the same way. Sometimes I'm like,
Speaker 4: I got someone to marry me, let alone someone that
Speaker 4: I love.
Speaker 3: But one of the things, and I talked to Jess
Speaker 3: about this last night, I think one of the things
Speaker 3: that has made our one of the many things that
Speaker 3: she does in our relationship and one of the things
Speaker 3: we do is a couple that has made our relationship
Speaker 3: work is we oftentimes, I would say ninety percent of
Speaker 3: the time that especially when we can we sit down
Speaker 3: to dinner together and we catch up on our day,
Speaker 3: that's when we ask, you know, the questions that we ask,
Speaker 3: what's your highlight, what's your low light of the day,
Speaker 3: and is there anything on your mind right now that
Speaker 3: we could talk about, and we let our conversation go
Speaker 3: from there when Rachel said that when they sit down
Speaker 3: for dinner, they're filming it. Immediately, I said, if you
Speaker 3: want a recipe for relationship to it point, get have conflict,
Speaker 3: to feel out of touch, to have issues from a
Speaker 3: lack of communication, start filming those intimate moments like a
Speaker 3: dinner together every time.
Speaker 4: Every time. That was interesting to me and our producer Sydney.
Speaker 4: We were talking about this before we started recording. It
Speaker 4: was like, every single meal that you guys go out
Speaker 4: to needs to be recorded. You should definitely have rules
Speaker 4: like once a week we don't record it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it could have been an over dramatization.
Speaker 4: Just it totally could have.
Speaker 3: But let's say, let's say it's seventy five percent of
Speaker 3: the time. I mean, damn, let's say it's fifty percent
Speaker 3: of the time they're filming this Dinner's think about Ashley,
Speaker 3: You're you're really good at this now, right, this comes
Speaker 3: very natural to you, jumping on camera, you know, Freddie
Speaker 3: talking on a camera, but there's still a level of
Speaker 3: you turning it on when that phone starts recording, right, Really,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, you're aware of it. You're not like just
Speaker 3: relaxed that you're working and that camera's on at a dinner,
Speaker 3: it always is gonna start or it's gonna start feeling
Speaker 3: like work. It's gonna start feeling like, Okay, can I
Speaker 3: have this bite of food?
Speaker 2: Is there going to be food on my face?
Speaker 3: Or hey, can I ask Matt this question about where
Speaker 3: he's at in our relationship and is he going to
Speaker 3: be upset with me? Because I'm gonna want to do
Speaker 3: it maybe during a dinner that he's going to want
Speaker 3: to be filming, and so we're gonna have to spend
Speaker 3: thirty minutes of this dinner actually having a conversation that
Speaker 3: matters and not just worrying about how the food looks
Speaker 3: or how it's plated, or when the waiter's coming up
Speaker 3: to drop the dishes. I I would say, I'm going
Speaker 3: to go this far. I'm going to give people advice
Speaker 3: out there. Don't do this Like we just talked about
Speaker 3: it last week, Ashley. One of the things for kids
Speaker 3: when they grew up in a house that means the
Speaker 3: most of them over time is when they sat down
Speaker 3: with their family for dinner. It's a experience. So as
Speaker 3: a couple, do it invest into that time. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying you can't ever film it or you can take
Speaker 3: pictures of it. That's their job. Yeah, but it felt
Speaker 3: like at some point Rachel was wanting to say to Matt, hey,
Speaker 3: this is getting overwhelming for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I felt bad because there's obviously she was like
Speaker 4: so nervous to pick the restaurant because she knew that
Speaker 4: it was his job, and she knew how much weight
Speaker 4: just a restaurant choice would be that we would be
Speaker 4: a wasted meal if they went out and it wasn't
Speaker 4: Instagram content.
Speaker 2: A wasted meal is the word she used, doesn't it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? And I feel that makes me feel just makes
Speaker 4: me feel okay. There's like there it just and he
Speaker 4: got upset that she got upset when she was disappointed
Speaker 4: that she picked the wrong place because she sort of
Speaker 4: felt like she failed him and that kind of it
Speaker 4: makes me feel okay. And I was just thinking that.
Speaker 4: He was like, her tears freaked him out, and she
Speaker 4: was like, if you're getting so upset over this, how
Speaker 4: are you gonna be when something actually bad happens? And
Speaker 4: I'm like, how do you not know this about her?
Speaker 4: After four years? But also, come on, now, we all
Speaker 4: have our moments, Like she said, she was like, I
Speaker 4: was just in a highly emotional state. I was like PMS,
Speaker 4: I was on my period and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: I was just not.
Speaker 4: Feeling like myself and you have like those emotional breakdowns.
Speaker 4: So him being judging over it, Well, no.
Speaker 3: We But first, Ashley, so you're running through the things
Speaker 3: that Rachel has said during the show. So, if you
Speaker 3: haven't listened to the show yet with Rachel, what Ashley
Speaker 3: is saying is Rachel brought up some of these topics
Speaker 3: that picking a dinner was stressful for her. She starts
Speaker 3: crying at the dinner. So that's why I want to
Speaker 3: be clear and clarifying. If you haven't watch this yet,
Speaker 3: I don't know if people will like listening will know
Speaker 3: what you're talking about. She said, she started crying at
Speaker 3: dinner because it was overwhelming for her, Yeah, to pick
Speaker 3: these dinners that she had the stress of picking at
Speaker 3: dinner because she didn't want it to be a wasted
Speaker 3: meal for Matt to shoot content at, because they'd shot
Speaker 3: content at many of these things. And then the final
Speaker 3: point that I want to dig into with you here
Speaker 3: is when Rachel said, historically, when she gets upset, Matt
Speaker 3: gives just gives her space.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she doesn't want space.
Speaker 2: She says, she doesn't want space.
Speaker 3: And then and actually, I want you to clarify this
Speaker 3: because I think this is the turning point in the
Speaker 3: relationship for them. Matt once she starts crying at dinner
Speaker 3: and she's like, Hey, I'm sorry, I got a little emotional.
Speaker 3: I just started my period and I was like stressed
Speaker 3: out about picking the spot.
Speaker 2: He says this.
Speaker 3: He says, how how are you going to deal with
Speaker 3: some of the bigger things in life if something like
Speaker 3: this throws you off so much?
Speaker 4: It just seems like a really accusatory statement. I want
Speaker 4: to give Matt a little bit of credit here. It's
Speaker 4: not as if like I haven't cried and Jared hasn't
Speaker 4: gotten annoyed at it before you know where He's like,
Speaker 4: can we just have a conversation without you crying? You
Speaker 4: know what I mean? But the way I just think
Speaker 4: that a lot of the interview to me lends to
Speaker 4: the fact that I think Matt was looking for a
Speaker 4: way out for quite some time and he didn't know
Speaker 4: how to do it, and there was moments in this
Speaker 4: trip to Tokyo that gave him his.
Speaker 3: In Ashley, I think you are you're spot on from
Speaker 3: a perspective, Yes, there's been arguments or conversations. I mean,
Speaker 3: Jessica is a very emotional human, Like she sometimes cries
Speaker 3: just because she's like.
Speaker 2: I don't get it. I don't understand it. It doesn't
Speaker 2: make me.
Speaker 3: I've never done that, but like, yeah, if Whalen comes
Speaker 3: up and jumps on her lap and I'm sitting next
Speaker 3: to her holding her hand, like, there's a good chance
Speaker 3: Jessica is gonna start crying, and it just happens that way,
Speaker 3: and so I understand Matt's.
Speaker 2: A bet. Over time, Matt was like.
Speaker 3: Hey, it feels like we can't have these deep conversations
Speaker 3: because you're going to get overly emotional. Now, I say
Speaker 3: that from my perspective, right, because it is something you
Speaker 3: think about in a relationship. However, I'll go back to
Speaker 3: this dinner conversation. I don't think the two of them
Speaker 3: were ever in a practice of having deep conversations.
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 2: I think it was.
Speaker 3: I think it was very rare for them to actually
Speaker 3: dig in.
Speaker 4: The general vibe that I got was that they were
Speaker 4: not as deep into a relationship as you would expect
Speaker 4: one to be. After four years.
Speaker 3: That that's a great way to say. I think there's
Speaker 3: practices and I think there's things done. I also think
Speaker 3: it's the spirit at which these conversations come in with
Speaker 3: I mean, I heard this, and if it's coming from
Speaker 3: a place of if it's coming from a bad place,
Speaker 3: that kind of criticism could hit deep.
Speaker 2: Right, how am I expect you? Know?
Speaker 3: How do I expect you to be a good partner
Speaker 3: to me? If this is something that there's you all
Speaker 3: so much. The reverse of that in a healthy relationship
Speaker 3: is sitting with your partner and saying, hey, like, there's
Speaker 3: going to be big and little things that happen in life,
Speaker 3: and as a couple, we're on a team here, So
Speaker 3: how do we get through these things together so that
Speaker 3: neither of us get thrown off?
Speaker 2: Because when you get emotional, well I get upset.
Speaker 3: And confused, and you know, I want to run away,
Speaker 3: and when you get upset, you shut down, and so
Speaker 3: how are we going to deal with this together? Totally
Speaker 3: different conversation than the you statements. Maybe it's more of
Speaker 3: an I statement that was needed. Is I feel like
Speaker 3: flustered when you get upset, So I need to know,
Speaker 3: you know, you need in these moments but you already
Speaker 3: said it when I heard it. Something had happened in
Speaker 3: his life. He was looking for this out. That's my
Speaker 3: that's my take. Now, that's my assumption is he was
Speaker 3: waiting for that moment to to, you know, where, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden it broke and he said, Hey, we're done.
Speaker 2: This was not like a random event. This was not
Speaker 2: her getting emotional. Uh.
Speaker 3: She was incredible during this interview of giving him the
Speaker 3: respect oh so much, the pains that she was feeling.
Speaker 3: And I think the one thing that maybe over time
Speaker 3: she'll realize is, yes, this was the moment that it ended.
Speaker 3: It felt like in his mind it had ended before this.
Speaker 4: She does mention that he said things really close to
Speaker 4: the breakup like I'm so happy you're my partner and stuff,
Speaker 4: and that he even so many times on Instagram said
Speaker 4: I'm looking for a ring and engagement's happening. And I
Speaker 4: just feel like this was sort of his way of
Speaker 4: talking him into himself into her being the one. But
Speaker 4: I think he has known for quite some time that
Speaker 4: she wasn't the person that he wanted to be with.
Speaker 4: And do you know what my theory is on the
Speaker 4: fact that he posted so soon after well, I think
Speaker 4: he was like, if I put this out there to
Speaker 4: the public, it makes it so real that we can't
Speaker 4: go back on this decision.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, the social media world reacted last night very much
Speaker 3: against Matt for how he posted, when he posted, and
Speaker 3: how soon he posted, knowing that she wasn't going to
Speaker 3: be able to see it. I do think it was
Speaker 3: And she said that he has now owned up this
Speaker 3: and apologized to it, and she does believe he's sorry
Speaker 3: for how this went down. I do think it was
Speaker 3: incredibly disrespectful, especially in a public relationship, to share so
Speaker 3: soon when she wasn't able to tell her family or
Speaker 3: friends yet and have the space to, you know, heal
Speaker 3: a little bit before you walk into this, you know,
Speaker 3: this breakup. I think that was a massive mistake on
Speaker 3: his end. I don't understand what he was thinking, but
Speaker 3: you're probably right. Maybe it was that stake in the
Speaker 3: ground saying now we can move on, Which leads me,
Speaker 3: Ashley to the kind of the next point that most
Speaker 3: people were reacting very powerfully to last night on social
Speaker 3: media is Rachel said that since the breakup, they have
Speaker 3: been in communication and that that Matt continues to call
Speaker 3: her to check.
Speaker 2: In on her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't like it, but I understand what he's doing too.
Speaker 3: Okay, So if we're going to give an explanation for
Speaker 3: Matt with and I want to be clear with your
Speaker 3: start of the sentence being I don't like it. Uh,
Speaker 3: and I don't like it either. I don't think it's healthy.
Speaker 3: But from a breakup perspective, what do you think he's doing?
Speaker 4: Well? I think that an expert would say that he's
Speaker 4: keeping her on the chain. M but my gut reaction
Speaker 4: and knowing somebody very close to me that would definitely
Speaker 4: do this, there's just so much guilt, Like was it
Speaker 4: Alex had mentioned the guilt or was it Rachel? And
Speaker 4: it may have been both. He's experiencing so much guilt
Speaker 4: that he just wants to make sure that she's okay.
Speaker 4: And the person that I know that QC for one,
Speaker 4: Chase does it because this person feels so guilty breaking
Speaker 4: up with another person. But then the other interpretation of
Speaker 4: that would be it's a selfish act because it prevents
Speaker 4: the person that was dumped from moving on.
Speaker 2: Can I add an element into this that I think
Speaker 2: is happening.
Speaker 3: I don't want to say I think's happening here because
Speaker 3: I don't know the two of them well, I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know him personally at all, so I can't
Speaker 3: say this is who he is or what he's doing.
Speaker 3: But I do know this from relationships and even things
Speaker 3: I've done in the past. Personally, there's a little bit
Speaker 3: of protection here too, where when you continue to communicate
Speaker 3: with that person it's really hard or in your mind
Speaker 3: you think it's hard for them to go out and
Speaker 3: bash you. It sounds like Matt wants to be known,
Speaker 3: and from Rachel's words, so it's what we take that
Speaker 3: he's a good guy. You know, he didn't meet he
Speaker 3: doesn't want to hurt her, he doesn't want to hurt people.
Speaker 3: I'm assuming that Matt holds that character very and very
Speaker 3: high regard personally, and so a little bit of this
Speaker 3: checking in could be a reminder to her of remember,
Speaker 3: I'm a good guy, I still care about you. I
Speaker 3: don't want you hurting. What can I do in this moment.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's healthy. I think it's a I
Speaker 3: think he needs to stop it because what it does
Speaker 3: do is it does all the things you said. It
Speaker 3: keeps her, you know, connected to him, keeps him connected
Speaker 3: to her. It strings this thing along. It does selfishly
Speaker 3: satisfy any guilt maybe that you have where you can say, oh,
Speaker 3: I still am checking in on her. He needs to
Speaker 3: stop it, because breakups are that you have to rip
Speaker 3: the band aid off as soon as possible, and you
Speaker 3: have to allow both people to move on, even if
Speaker 3: it feels like rock bottom. But I do think there's
Speaker 3: a level of personal protection when it comes to moments
Speaker 3: of letting, like continuing to communicate with somebody just so
Speaker 3: they are reminded, which is so hard now that I
Speaker 3: say it, like this after you broke up with him,
Speaker 3: just so they reminded that, yeah, I'm still the guy
Speaker 3: always No.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Also an element of like being a public breakup.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking that, like he's also checking up on her,
Speaker 4: how how she's doing with the like the media and
Speaker 4: the fandom. Sure, but you know what, do you would
Speaker 4: you do this if it weren't for that? Probably? But
Speaker 4: do I think it would be appropriate for him to
Speaker 4: have one phone call with her after landing back from Tokyo. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: they definitely needed to have another phone call. Could he
Speaker 4: have texted her a few days after that phone call?
Speaker 4: How you're holding up? Something like that, that'd be okay.
Speaker 4: What it sounds like is that they're having long conversations
Speaker 4: on the phone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like he is wanting to communicate with
Speaker 3: her more often that's health than that's healthy. And it
Speaker 3: sounds like she now has been clear to him that
Speaker 3: that's no longer what she needs or wants. And you
Speaker 3: know what, I have no doubt from this conversation that
Speaker 3: there was love a lot of love between the two
Speaker 3: of them, and so this is going to be really
Speaker 3: hard to move on from. But they need to move
Speaker 3: on from it. I think that's when it came to
Speaker 3: my public breakup. That was the best advice I was
Speaker 3: ever given was hey, almost in a sense, and this
Speaker 3: is what was said to me. So I'll say it,
Speaker 3: suck it up, rip the band aid off, and start
Speaker 3: to heal, Like, don't stop playing these scenarios out of
Speaker 3: the past, Stop letting your mind wander to good and
Speaker 3: bad places. Stop you know, remembering all the reasons why
Speaker 3: it led up to this point. Rip the band aid off,
Speaker 3: put your steak in the ground, and step forward into
Speaker 3: life again. And I think that's the healthiest way to
Speaker 3: move on. You both need to move on hopefully. I
Speaker 3: believe they're both going to find new partners at some point.
Speaker 3: That's going to be another weird moment for the two
Speaker 3: of them, right to start to build something new from
Speaker 3: scratch with somebody else. But letting it continue like it
Speaker 3: is right now for any longer becomes really confusing mentally,
Speaker 3: especially when it breaks kind of happens out of nowhere,
Speaker 3: as Rachel was saying, because this came as a surprise,
Speaker 3: and so in her mind she never led up to
Speaker 3: this point, right, she was still picturing kids in a
Speaker 3: marriage with this man, and then this breakup happens. She
Speaker 3: needs to he needs to let her go so that
Speaker 3: she can start to come to terms the fact that
Speaker 3: this is over, this is done.
Speaker 4: The last ten minutes or so, Alex really just takes
Speaker 4: girl time with her and is like, I want you
Speaker 4: to know, like you're going to look back on this
Speaker 4: interview in about six months and you're going to be
Speaker 4: so happy that this is over. You're going to find
Speaker 4: someone so great for you, and you're going to realize
Speaker 4: why it never worked out with Matt. And after watching
Speaker 4: Rachel for an hour and a half, I felt so
Speaker 4: much the same way. It's weird. I was also talking
Speaker 4: with our producer sitting before this. We have it's been
Speaker 4: so long since we saw Rachel on the show, and
Speaker 4: even on the show, we didn't get to know her
Speaker 4: that well, and even through social media they have separated themselves.
Speaker 4: In the Bachelor, a lot of it has been like
Speaker 4: food and travel related, and she hasn't exposed a lot
Speaker 4: of herself. So this was like one of the first
Speaker 4: times we really got to know her. She has been mysterious.
Speaker 3: I'm really glad that she did this interview. I think
Speaker 3: Alex did a great job walking Rachel through it, pointing
Speaker 3: out some of the things that Rachel was saying that
Speaker 3: you feel in a relationship, Like Rachel was bringing up that,
Speaker 3: you know, she felt like she was apologizing a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that.
Speaker 3: That Matt, you know, said that she kind of wasn't
Speaker 3: owning the stuff that she was doing. Alex was really
Speaker 3: good at kind of being pointing out like, hey, Rachel,
Speaker 3: you're saying this, and I get why you feel this,
Speaker 3: and I understand who you are as a human, but
Speaker 3: that isn't true, right, Not everybody's gonna make you feel
Speaker 3: this way, and so don't live in that Lie. I
Speaker 3: thought that was great, and I'm really glad Rachel did
Speaker 3: the interview. Granted, if she was never a public figure,
Speaker 3: this would feel very weird, right, but it does. I
Speaker 3: think she was respectful to Matt. I think she was
Speaker 3: respectful to the relationship, even if maybe she doesn't fully
Speaker 3: feel that all the time. But she also gave us
Speaker 3: a glimpse of who she is, and I think she
Speaker 3: is a beautiful person who we've seen publicly be very
Speaker 3: funny and who is very empathetic and very kind and
Speaker 3: very wise. And so now I don't think this was
Speaker 3: a good thing for Matt, Like I don't think people
Speaker 3: are gonna love.
Speaker 2: Him any anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do think this was a good thing
Speaker 3: for her to do, to kind of give her perspective
Speaker 3: on everything, kind of own, you know, this moment and
Speaker 3: say this is who we were, this is who we are,
Speaker 3: and this is who I want to be going forward.
Speaker 3: So I I have nothing but great things to say
Speaker 3: about Rachel, and I agree with what Alexander Matt actually said.
Speaker 3: Rachel is going to have a beautiful next season of life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And I do want to just touch before
Speaker 4: we leave on the fact that that was an ongoing
Speaker 4: theme that she had to apologize in every fight that
Speaker 4: got She felt as if it was like a full circle,
Speaker 4: like she kind of started the argument and then she
Speaker 4: found herself at the end of it, like apologizing for
Speaker 4: the argument. And I think that looking back, that could
Speaker 4: also be a hint that he was trying to start
Speaker 4: fights and if they wanted to be ended, she had
Speaker 4: to end them because he may have wanted to secretly
Speaker 4: end of the relationship. It could just be a crappy
Speaker 4: quality and something that you have a relationship with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean possibly, I think it's probably an in
Speaker 3: maturity and communication I have just can I have this
Speaker 3: often in our relationship. It is something that we've gone
Speaker 3: to couples counseling for, uh, to try to get better
Speaker 3: how we communicate in the midst of arguments. It is
Speaker 3: never intentional on either of our parts to make that
Speaker 3: loop come back to the person, but it's happened many
Speaker 3: times and often now we kind of have a joke
Speaker 3: about it because of how many times it's happened, where
Speaker 3: it's like at the end of a conversation that maybe
Speaker 3: we came into saying something like I was hurt or
Speaker 3: I was I'm I'm feeling this way, and then again
Speaker 3: we're like the person that brought it up is the
Speaker 3: one apologizing.
Speaker 2: We have a joke like that was wild, Like.
Speaker 4: Wait, this is actually so relatable. Now I'm taken back
Speaker 4: what I'm thinking because yeah, so oftentimes the person that
Speaker 4: says like, ugh, that was you know who snaps is like, well,
Speaker 4: obviously the snapper would say sorry for snapping, but yeah,
Speaker 4: to apologize for the thing that the arguments are sure,
Speaker 4: I understand totally.
Speaker 2: So I don't think maybe it was as.
Speaker 3: I think if most couples in relationship thought about it
Speaker 3: like that can happen because oftentimes the person reacting, I
Speaker 3: think yeah, is coming from an emotional spot and it
Speaker 3: could be true and it could not be, but that
Speaker 3: person oftentimes does end up apologizing because the other person's like,
Speaker 3: I never meant it that way. I was just saying
Speaker 3: that in passing, or I was trying to make a
Speaker 3: joke with you or whatever like that was not coming
Speaker 3: from a place of trying to hurt you. So the
Speaker 3: best way I think to close these conversations, if there
Speaker 3: is a healthy way sometimes, and this is what we
Speaker 3: learned through therapy, is just to end the conversation with hey,
Speaker 3: I love you and give a hug and like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we're good. Like because if you take it on forever,
Speaker 3: like if you draw these arguments out all the time,
Speaker 3: it's going to have to end with somebody apologizing, because
Speaker 3: that's just kind of a good way to close it.
Speaker 2: And I think that was what happening. These were just
Speaker 2: going in loops.
Speaker 3: Instead of just saying, Okay, I hear you, I understand
Speaker 3: where you're coming from, and I love you. That was
Speaker 3: not to me, but that Twitter or ex reacted pretty
Speaker 3: strongly to that, and I get how because it does
Speaker 3: sound like every time she was apologizing, I just heard
Speaker 3: it and I was like, I in the midst of
Speaker 3: a relationship, those moments happen. Or maybe I'm just unique
Speaker 3: and I'm a terrible dude too, and that's how it.
Speaker 4: No, I appreciate you bringing up the other side, but I.
Speaker 3: Don't want to be an apologist. So in closing here,
Speaker 3: for Matt, I think what he did and how he
Speaker 3: broke up this up. Breakups, we should not like demonize
Speaker 3: somebody for having a breakup. This is gonna be the
Speaker 3: best thing for Rachel in the end, Like she's gonna
Speaker 3: be great.
Speaker 4: The two big things that I think people can get
Speaker 4: on for Matt if you're looking to get on for
Speaker 4: something is obviously the post timing and the fact that
Speaker 4: he didn't get her approval for any of that, and
Speaker 4: secondly for stringing her along, her along for so long.
Speaker 4: Four years is so long. She's in She's twenty nine,
Speaker 4: you know, so she's it's not like she's wasted like
Speaker 4: eighteen through twenty two. You know, these her formative dating years.
Speaker 4: She was like really thinking that she was with the
Speaker 4: person that she was gonna be with forever. If he
Speaker 4: had had doubts for a while, he needed to step
Speaker 4: stringing her along.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think there was manipulative behavior on his legate.
Speaker 3: I think that he strung her along. I think that
Speaker 3: how he did the breakup showed a level of a
Speaker 3: lack of wisdom and a lack of empathy and a
Speaker 3: lack of care. I don't want to be an apologist
Speaker 3: for Matt. I'm just saying some of this stuff. I
Speaker 3: think we react strongly to it when we don't see
Speaker 3: the plank in her own eye and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I could I've actually I have those same struggles in relationship.
Speaker 3: I have those same dynamics sometimes and my healthy, loving marriage.
Speaker 3: Some of this stuff was just bringing to light some
Speaker 3: things that a lot of us could relate with if
Speaker 3: we look and you know, look inside of our own
Speaker 3: relationships and own some of the mistakes that we make
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: So I don't and I don't and I don't want
Speaker 3: to demonize him for having this breakup.
Speaker 2: Breakups happen again.
Speaker 3: I I think it's going to be for the best
Speaker 3: for both of them. I don't think he was the
Speaker 3: right match for Rachel. I think Rachel's going to find
Speaker 3: somebody incredible here, uh, and somebody that treats her consistently
Speaker 3: with love, care, empathy and looks at her with these
Speaker 3: awe struck eyes every day, like, how in the world
Speaker 3: did I get lucky enough to be with you? I
Speaker 3: believe that's coming her way. I do, uh, And I'm
Speaker 3: excited for that chapter for her. I also want to
Speaker 3: say that I do for a breakup to happen so recently.
Speaker 3: Rachel gave a level of respect, care, consideration, and wisdom.
Speaker 3: If I was Matt, I think it would be awkward
Speaker 3: and kind of like feel weird to see this really
Speaker 3: this interview happen, But if I listened to it, I
Speaker 3: would walk out of it going I get it.
Speaker 2: I can't really be mad at you for the doing this.
Speaker 3: I hope he's not, And even if he is, I
Speaker 3: don't know if it matters now, But yeah, I think
Speaker 3: he was in the wrong.
Speaker 2: I just don't. Well.
Speaker 3: The one thing I refuse to do is to sit
Speaker 3: here and say, oh my gosh, how could he break
Speaker 3: up with her? That's not the point.
Speaker 2: The point how he did it totally and the actions afterwards.
Speaker 4: Now, Alex made a really good point. She said, You're
Speaker 4: going to be so grateful that he put that post
Speaker 4: out without your knowledge and so quickly, because you looking
Speaker 4: back on this, being like this was just a great
Speaker 4: guy and a great guy that I wanted to be with,
Speaker 4: is going to hurt you for so much longer looking
Speaker 4: back and knowing that he did this is going to
Speaker 4: be what prevents you from wanting to go back. You
Speaker 4: needed a boom.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, she needed that steak in the ground.
Speaker 4: Maybe that's it, right, And I think that subconsciously, consciously,
Speaker 4: I don't know, Matt maybe sort of knew that. M
Speaker 4: M no, you think it was fully selfish that he
Speaker 4: did They did the post.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think there was only I think one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: I maybe the only thing I can think that might
Speaker 3: have happened. Again, I don't know, Matt, but my guess
Speaker 3: is maybe he thought it. He did it thinking that
Speaker 3: he would benefit from it, like there was some world
Speaker 3: in which he thought you would like benefit from this post.
Speaker 4: The benefit is that he I mean, in my point opinion,
Speaker 4: the benefit is that he put it out there so
Speaker 4: that it was done. He's like, I'm my hands are
Speaker 4: clean of this relationship.
Speaker 3: Not knowing it was going to skyrocket Rachel into the
Speaker 3: spotlight now for a long time.
Speaker 2: And I think that's awesome.
Speaker 4: I think it's kind of like an arionomatic situation, right,
Speaker 4: except for he wasn't a dirty, dirty teator.
Speaker 2: I think it will be great for her, and I
Speaker 2: love that. I do.
Speaker 4: Yes, she already has a million views on this podcast
Speaker 4: after twelve hours, and that is the views on YouTube,
Speaker 4: not the listens included.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's going to do just well, Alex Cooper, I
Speaker 2: guess is going to do just fine.
Speaker 4: From my goodness, courageous. I don't know what her numbers
Speaker 4: are like usually after twelve hours, but holy Molly, I.
Speaker 2: Have to assume this is a big one. Hey. In summary,
Speaker 2: Rachel's awesome. She had a great interview.
Speaker 3: Alex did do a great job walking through this interview
Speaker 3: and facilitating the interview. I guess the hope in any breakup,
Speaker 3: especially public, that they both can move on now. And
Speaker 3: the biggest takeaway for me is like, stop communicating and
Speaker 3: start moving on because the future is very bright for Rachel,
Speaker 3: especially right now, and I think she's excited to start
Speaker 3: a family and to be in relationship. So go out
Speaker 3: and listen to it if you haven't yet. This was
Speaker 3: our breakdown kind of the things said and the thoughts
Speaker 3: that came to our mind during this interview. But if
Speaker 3: you haven't listened to it yet, it's very much worth
Speaker 3: the time if you're curious about somebody's breakup, to go
Speaker 3: out and listen to it.
Speaker 2: So until next time, I've been Been, I've been Ashley.
Speaker 4: See you guys.
Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on
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