WEBVTT - Rachel Speaks Out 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.800 This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:05.000 with on our radio. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.360 It's Almost Famous podcast. 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.640 We are here for a very unexpected episode after a 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:15.040 very unexpected event happened in Bachelor Nation. Matt James and 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.239 Rachel if you haven't heard yet, announced they're split a 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.440 little about a week ago, and just recently Rachel came 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:26.239 out and spoke publicly on the Call Her Daddy podcast. 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.480 We're here today to break down the interview and give 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:30.520 our thoughts on what and the world happened. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:35.319 Ashley, Wow, Ben, Well, first off, you said that they 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.199 announced their breakup. We know that very much. He announced 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:44.920 their breakup and it was shocking, shocking that he would 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.879 decide to do that three hours after the actual breakup, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.919 especially as she is about to take off on a 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.120 twelve hour flight from Tokyo back to the US. She 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.440 talks about on the interview how he even knew that 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:01.400 she wasn't to be able to get Wi Fi on 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.520 the plane. So how she found out that he posted 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.840 about their breakup was a friend texted her just before 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.720 she had to put her phone in airplane mode, and 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.680 then she goes to Instagram, sees his posts and then 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.000 legit the plane takes off, she loses service, and she 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.920 has to just wonder what the world is saying for 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:30.880 twelve hours. Ben, what was your takeaway from all that 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.000 we learned, including that during this interview. 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.959 Yeah, I mean I would love to try to. I mean, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:43.240 breakups are always interesting on that in Bachelor Nation, breakups 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.560 are hard, and I think Alex did a great job 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:52.680 during this interview of bringing to light just how hard 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.520 breakups are and the healthy part of breakups and the 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.520 unhealthy things that happened with him breakups. To hear a 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.520 lot of their relationship throughout this interview, and I think 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.240 there's a few things, if we can start there that 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.720 really stand out to me, not really how they met 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:15.640 and even some of the stuff on the end of 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:17.240 the show and how they broke up and all that. 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.320 Like they got the first half an hour you could 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:21.600 skip through if you guys want to go listen to it. 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:23.840 If you want the full story and you want the 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.799 background about the controversy back in twenty twenty and all that, 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.320 watch the first half an hour. But if you want 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.800 to get to the current stuff, fast forward to about 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.760 thirty five minutes and. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:34.880 This is the part Ashley. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.560 I think that first jumped out to me, I watched 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.640 the whole thing, which I typically would never do, but 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:45.400 I was, for whatever, gerious, here's why I need your thoughts. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.560 The first part that stood out to me was Rachel 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.840 kind of getting into the moments or the days before 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:58.280 the breakup where the enter. Yeah, I am not a 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:02.080 relationship expert, by no me and I really, you know, 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.720 sometimes am shocked that I have a wife that still 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:06.120 loves me. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:10.040 You know what. I feel the same way. Sometimes I'm like, 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.320 I got someone to marry me, let alone someone that 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:14.040 I love. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.120 But one of the things, and I talked to Jess 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:19.760 about this last night, I think one of the things 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:21.920 that has made our one of the many things that 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.080 she does in our relationship and one of the things 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.000 we do is a couple that has made our relationship 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.679 work is we oftentimes, I would say ninety percent of 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.920 the time that especially when we can we sit down 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.280 to dinner together and we catch up on our day, 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.280 that's when we ask, you know, the questions that we ask, 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.080 what's your highlight, what's your low light of the day, 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.400 and is there anything on your mind right now that 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.840 we could talk about, and we let our conversation go 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:53.080 from there when Rachel said that when they sit down 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.440 for dinner, they're filming it. Immediately, I said, if you 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:04.120 want a recipe for relationship to it point, get have conflict, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.640 to feel out of touch, to have issues from a 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:13.520 lack of communication, start filming those intimate moments like a 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:15.680 dinner together every time. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.440 Every time. That was interesting to me and our producer Sydney. 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.440 We were talking about this before we started recording. It 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.960 was like, every single meal that you guys go out 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.239 to needs to be recorded. You should definitely have rules 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.360 like once a week we don't record it. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.320 I mean, it could have been an over dramatization. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:34.880 Just it totally could have. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.120 But let's say, let's say it's seventy five percent of 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.279 the time. I mean, damn, let's say it's fifty percent 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.760 of the time they're filming this Dinner's think about Ashley, 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:47.760 You're you're really good at this now, right, this comes 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.040 very natural to you, jumping on camera, you know, Freddie 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.760 talking on a camera, but there's still a level of 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:58.240 you turning it on when that phone starts recording, right, Really, 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.960 oh yeah, you're aware of it. You're not like just 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:06.679 relaxed that you're working and that camera's on at a dinner, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.200 it always is gonna start or it's gonna start feeling 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.560 like work. It's gonna start feeling like, Okay, can I 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:14.520 have this bite of food? 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.040 Is there going to be food on my face? 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.080 Or hey, can I ask Matt this question about where 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.080 he's at in our relationship and is he going to 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:22.680 be upset with me? Because I'm gonna want to do 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.280 it maybe during a dinner that he's going to want 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:26.880 to be filming, and so we're gonna have to spend 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.599 thirty minutes of this dinner actually having a conversation that 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.840 matters and not just worrying about how the food looks 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.240 or how it's plated, or when the waiter's coming up 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:40.039 to drop the dishes. I I would say, I'm going 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.000 to go this far. I'm going to give people advice 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:47.480 out there. Don't do this Like we just talked about 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.960 it last week, Ashley. One of the things for kids 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.839 when they grew up in a house that means the 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:55.800 most of them over time is when they sat down 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.840 with their family for dinner. It's a experience. So as 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:03.040 a couple, do it invest into that time. I'm not 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.960 saying you can't ever film it or you can take 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.839 pictures of it. That's their job. Yeah, but it felt 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.520 like at some point Rachel was wanting to say to Matt, hey, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.560 this is getting overwhelming for me. 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.640 Yeah. I felt bad because there's obviously she was like 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.400 so nervous to pick the restaurant because she knew that 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.279 it was his job, and she knew how much weight 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.919 just a restaurant choice would be that we would be 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.479 a wasted meal if they went out and it wasn't 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:34.640 Instagram content. 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:37.800 A wasted meal is the word she used, doesn't it? 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:44.479 Yeah? And I feel that makes me feel just makes 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:49.440 me feel okay. There's like there it just and he 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.200 got upset that she got upset when she was disappointed 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.240 that she picked the wrong place because she sort of 0:06:55.240 --> 0:07:01.560 felt like she failed him and that kind of it 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.479 makes me feel okay. And I was just thinking that. 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.800 He was like, her tears freaked him out, and she 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.200 was like, if you're getting so upset over this, how 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.960 are you gonna be when something actually bad happens? And 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.360 I'm like, how do you not know this about her? 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.920 After four years? But also, come on, now, we all 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.120 have our moments, Like she said, she was like, I 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.000 was just in a highly emotional state. I was like PMS, 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:29.880 I was on my period and blah blah blah. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:30.720 I was just not. 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:35.000 Feeling like myself and you have like those emotional breakdowns. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.120 So him being judging over it, Well, no. 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.840 We But first, Ashley, so you're running through the things 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.320 that Rachel has said during the show. So, if you 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.880 haven't listened to the show yet with Rachel, what Ashley 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.679 is saying is Rachel brought up some of these topics 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.560 that picking a dinner was stressful for her. She starts 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.520 crying at the dinner. So that's why I want to 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.960 be clear and clarifying. If you haven't watch this yet, 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.320 I don't know if people will like listening will know 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.600 what you're talking about. She said, she started crying at 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.320 dinner because it was overwhelming for her, Yeah, to pick 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.200 these dinners that she had the stress of picking at 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:14.960 dinner because she didn't want it to be a wasted 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.320 meal for Matt to shoot content at, because they'd shot 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.400 content at many of these things. And then the final 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.600 point that I want to dig into with you here 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:29.760 is when Rachel said, historically, when she gets upset, Matt 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.440 gives just gives her space. 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:33.400 Yeah, and she doesn't want space. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.200 She says, she doesn't want space. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.040 And then and actually, I want you to clarify this 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:41.520 because I think this is the turning point in the 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:46.160 relationship for them. Matt once she starts crying at dinner 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.280 and she's like, Hey, I'm sorry, I got a little emotional. 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:54.360 I just started my period and I was like stressed 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:55.800 out about picking the spot. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:57.240 He says this. 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.360 He says, how how are you going to deal with 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.080 some of the bigger things in life if something like 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.439 this throws you off so much? 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:12.120 It just seems like a really accusatory statement. I want 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.040 to give Matt a little bit of credit here. It's 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.640 not as if like I haven't cried and Jared hasn't 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.200 gotten annoyed at it before you know where He's like, 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.800 can we just have a conversation without you crying? You 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.080 know what I mean? But the way I just think 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.800 that a lot of the interview to me lends to 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.720 the fact that I think Matt was looking for a 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.000 way out for quite some time and he didn't know 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.640 how to do it, and there was moments in this 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.400 trip to Tokyo that gave him his. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.240 In Ashley, I think you are you're spot on from 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:52.280 a perspective, Yes, there's been arguments or conversations. I mean, 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:59.000 Jessica is a very emotional human, Like she sometimes cries 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.120 just because she's like. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.360 I don't get it. I don't understand it. It doesn't 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:04.880 make me. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.480 I've never done that, but like, yeah, if Whalen comes 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.400 up and jumps on her lap and I'm sitting next 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.400 to her holding her hand, like, there's a good chance 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:17.560 Jessica is gonna start crying, and it just happens that way, 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:22.360 and so I understand Matt's. 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.920 A bet. Over time, Matt was like. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:31.520 Hey, it feels like we can't have these deep conversations 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:36.520 because you're going to get overly emotional. Now, I say 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.360 that from my perspective, right, because it is something you 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.440 think about in a relationship. However, I'll go back to 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.800 this dinner conversation. I don't think the two of them 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.760 were ever in a practice of having deep conversations. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:51.719 I think so. 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:53.440 I think it was. 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.440 I think it was very rare for them to actually 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:56.880 dig in. 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.560 The general vibe that I got was that they were 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.480 not as deep into a relationship as you would expect 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.240 one to be. After four years. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.440 That that's a great way to say. I think there's 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.760 practices and I think there's things done. I also think 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.640 it's the spirit at which these conversations come in with 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.000 I mean, I heard this, and if it's coming from 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.600 a place of if it's coming from a bad place, 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.199 that kind of criticism could hit deep. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.440 Right, how am I expect you? Know? 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.200 How do I expect you to be a good partner 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:42.520 to me? If this is something that there's you all 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.920 so much. The reverse of that in a healthy relationship 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.520 is sitting with your partner and saying, hey, like, there's 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.320 going to be big and little things that happen in life, 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.320 and as a couple, we're on a team here, So 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.400 how do we get through these things together so that 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:58.880 neither of us get thrown off? 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.840 Because when you get emotional, well I get upset. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.880 And confused, and you know, I want to run away, 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.040 and when you get upset, you shut down, and so 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.280 how are we going to deal with this together? Totally 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.719 different conversation than the you statements. Maybe it's more of 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.680 an I statement that was needed. Is I feel like 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.360 flustered when you get upset, So I need to know, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.120 you know, you need in these moments but you already 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:31.000 said it when I heard it. Something had happened in 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.840 his life. He was looking for this out. That's my 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.000 that's my take. Now, that's my assumption is he was 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.600 waiting for that moment to to, you know, where, all 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.080 of a sudden it broke and he said, Hey, we're done. 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.080 This was not like a random event. This was not 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.280 her getting emotional. Uh. 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.480 She was incredible during this interview of giving him the 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:58.560 respect oh so much, the pains that she was feeling. 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.760 And I think the one thing that maybe over time 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.400 she'll realize is, yes, this was the moment that it ended. 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.480 It felt like in his mind it had ended before this. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:15.040 She does mention that he said things really close to 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.880 the breakup like I'm so happy you're my partner and stuff, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.440 and that he even so many times on Instagram said 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.000 I'm looking for a ring and engagement's happening. And I 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.320 just feel like this was sort of his way of 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:32.600 talking him into himself into her being the one. But 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:34.959 I think he has known for quite some time that 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:37.760 she wasn't the person that he wanted to be with. 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:39.760 And do you know what my theory is on the 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.120 fact that he posted so soon after well, I think 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:45.640 he was like, if I put this out there to 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.800 the public, it makes it so real that we can't 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.080 go back on this decision. 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:53.520 Yeah. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:59.520 Well, the social media world reacted last night very much 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.040 against Matt for how he posted, when he posted, and 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.199 how soon he posted, knowing that she wasn't going to 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.679 be able to see it. I do think it was 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.080 And she said that he has now owned up this 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.520 and apologized to it, and she does believe he's sorry 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.840 for how this went down. I do think it was 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.800 incredibly disrespectful, especially in a public relationship, to share so 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.360 soon when she wasn't able to tell her family or 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.720 friends yet and have the space to, you know, heal 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.440 a little bit before you walk into this, you know, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.640 this breakup. I think that was a massive mistake on 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.200 his end. I don't understand what he was thinking, but 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.680 you're probably right. Maybe it was that stake in the 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.400 ground saying now we can move on, Which leads me, 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:47.960 Ashley to the kind of the next point that most 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.400 people were reacting very powerfully to last night on social 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:56.840 media is Rachel said that since the breakup, they have 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.680 been in communication and that that Matt continues to call 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.000 her to check. 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:01.280 In on her. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.360 Yeah, don't like it, but I understand what he's doing too. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.640 Okay, So if we're going to give an explanation for 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.560 Matt with and I want to be clear with your 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.960 start of the sentence being I don't like it. Uh, 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.280 and I don't like it either. I don't think it's healthy. 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.600 But from a breakup perspective, what do you think he's doing? 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.600 Well? I think that an expert would say that he's 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:33.120 keeping her on the chain. M but my gut reaction 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.560 and knowing somebody very close to me that would definitely 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:42.920 do this, there's just so much guilt, Like was it 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.120 Alex had mentioned the guilt or was it Rachel? And 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.600 it may have been both. He's experiencing so much guilt 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.760 that he just wants to make sure that she's okay. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.040 And the person that I know that QC for one, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.400 Chase does it because this person feels so guilty breaking 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.680 up with another person. But then the other interpretation of 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.920 that would be it's a selfish act because it prevents 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.640 the person that was dumped from moving on. 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.080 Can I add an element into this that I think 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:14.600 is happening. 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.040 I don't want to say I think's happening here because 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:19.680 I don't know the two of them well, I mean, 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.400 I don't know him personally at all, so I can't 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.080 say this is who he is or what he's doing. 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:30.000 But I do know this from relationships and even things 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:34.000 I've done in the past. Personally, there's a little bit 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.480 of protection here too, where when you continue to communicate 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.040 with that person it's really hard or in your mind 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.400 you think it's hard for them to go out and 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.800 bash you. It sounds like Matt wants to be known, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.080 and from Rachel's words, so it's what we take that 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.480 he's a good guy. You know, he didn't meet he 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.920 doesn't want to hurt her, he doesn't want to hurt people. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.920 I'm assuming that Matt holds that character very and very 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.800 high regard personally, and so a little bit of this 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.440 checking in could be a reminder to her of remember, 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.280 I'm a good guy, I still care about you. I 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.560 don't want you hurting. What can I do in this moment. 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.879 I don't think it's healthy. I think it's a I 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.480 think he needs to stop it because what it does 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.040 do is it does all the things you said. It 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.320 keeps her, you know, connected to him, keeps him connected 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:28.800 to her. It strings this thing along. It does selfishly 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.640 satisfy any guilt maybe that you have where you can say, oh, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.840 I still am checking in on her. He needs to 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.080 stop it, because breakups are that you have to rip 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.359 the band aid off as soon as possible, and you 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.679 have to allow both people to move on, even if 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.600 it feels like rock bottom. But I do think there's 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.480 a level of personal protection when it comes to moments 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.600 of letting, like continuing to communicate with somebody just so 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.639 they are reminded, which is so hard now that I 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.280 say it, like this after you broke up with him, 0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:59.760 just so they reminded that, yeah, I'm still the guy 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:00.439 always No. 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:06.040 Yeah. Also an element of like being a public breakup. 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.239 I'm thinking that, like he's also checking up on her, 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.680 how how she's doing with the like the media and 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.800 the fandom. Sure, but you know what, do you would 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.760 you do this if it weren't for that? Probably? But 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.199 do I think it would be appropriate for him to 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.880 have one phone call with her after landing back from Tokyo. Absolutely, 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.480 they definitely needed to have another phone call. Could he 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.320 have texted her a few days after that phone call? 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.440 How you're holding up? Something like that, that'd be okay. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.560 What it sounds like is that they're having long conversations 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:40.840 on the phone. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.800 Yeah, it sounds like he is wanting to communicate with 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:48.359 her more often that's health than that's healthy. And it 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.439 sounds like she now has been clear to him that 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:54.320 that's no longer what she needs or wants. And you 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.879 know what, I have no doubt from this conversation that 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.040 there was love a lot of love between the two 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.840 of them, and so this is going to be really 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.440 hard to move on from. But they need to move 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.520 on from it. I think that's when it came to 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.879 my public breakup. That was the best advice I was 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.040 ever given was hey, almost in a sense, and this 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:14.760 is what was said to me. So I'll say it, 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.359 suck it up, rip the band aid off, and start 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.000 to heal, Like, don't stop playing these scenarios out of 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.280 the past, Stop letting your mind wander to good and 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:30.640 bad places. Stop you know, remembering all the reasons why 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.720 it led up to this point. Rip the band aid off, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.000 put your steak in the ground, and step forward into 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.119 life again. And I think that's the healthiest way to 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.840 move on. You both need to move on hopefully. I 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.359 believe they're both going to find new partners at some point. 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.400 That's going to be another weird moment for the two 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.080 of them, right to start to build something new from 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:53.520 scratch with somebody else. But letting it continue like it 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:58.280 is right now for any longer becomes really confusing mentally, 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.520 especially when it breaks kind of happens out of nowhere, 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.000 as Rachel was saying, because this came as a surprise, 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.760 and so in her mind she never led up to 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.800 this point, right, she was still picturing kids in a 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.359 marriage with this man, and then this breakup happens. She 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.960 needs to he needs to let her go so that 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.720 she can start to come to terms the fact that 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:30.920 this is over, this is done. 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.480 The last ten minutes or so, Alex really just takes 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.040 girl time with her and is like, I want you 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.480 to know, like you're going to look back on this 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.360 interview in about six months and you're going to be 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:48.520 so happy that this is over. You're going to find 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.000 someone so great for you, and you're going to realize 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.040 why it never worked out with Matt. And after watching 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:58.439 Rachel for an hour and a half, I felt so 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.959 much the same way. It's weird. I was also talking 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.320 with our producer sitting before this. We have it's been 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:08.439 so long since we saw Rachel on the show, and 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.040 even on the show, we didn't get to know her 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.920 that well, and even through social media they have separated themselves. 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:15.639 In the Bachelor, a lot of it has been like 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.280 food and travel related, and she hasn't exposed a lot 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.400 of herself. So this was like one of the first 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.760 times we really got to know her. She has been mysterious. 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.120 I'm really glad that she did this interview. I think 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:32.560 Alex did a great job walking Rachel through it, pointing 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.000 out some of the things that Rachel was saying that 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.679 you feel in a relationship, Like Rachel was bringing up that, 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.600 you know, she felt like she was apologizing a lot. 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.920 Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.159 That Matt, you know, said that she kind of wasn't 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.240 owning the stuff that she was doing. Alex was really 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.399 good at kind of being pointing out like, hey, Rachel, 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.439