1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: with on our radio. 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: It's Almost Famous podcast. 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 3: We are here for a very unexpected episode after a 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 3: very unexpected event happened in Bachelor Nation. Matt James and 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 3: Rachel if you haven't heard yet, announced they're split a 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 3: little about a week ago, and just recently Rachel came 8 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 3: out and spoke publicly on the Call Her Daddy podcast. 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 3: We're here today to break down the interview and give 10 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 3: our thoughts on what and the world happened. 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,319 Speaker 4: Ashley, Wow, Ben, Well, first off, you said that they 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 4: announced their breakup. We know that very much. He announced 13 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 4: their breakup and it was shocking, shocking that he would 14 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 4: decide to do that three hours after the actual breakup, 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 4: especially as she is about to take off on a 16 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 4: twelve hour flight from Tokyo back to the US. She 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 4: talks about on the interview how he even knew that 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 4: she wasn't to be able to get Wi Fi on 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 4: the plane. So how she found out that he posted 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 4: about their breakup was a friend texted her just before 21 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 4: she had to put her phone in airplane mode, and 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 4: then she goes to Instagram, sees his posts and then 23 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 4: legit the plane takes off, she loses service, and she 24 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 4: has to just wonder what the world is saying for 25 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 4: twelve hours. Ben, what was your takeaway from all that 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 4: we learned, including that during this interview. 27 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would love to try to. I mean, 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 3: breakups are always interesting on that in Bachelor Nation, breakups 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 3: are hard, and I think Alex did a great job 30 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 3: during this interview of bringing to light just how hard 31 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 3: breakups are and the healthy part of breakups and the 32 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 3: unhealthy things that happened with him breakups. To hear a 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 3: lot of their relationship throughout this interview, and I think 34 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 3: there's a few things, if we can start there that 35 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: really stand out to me, not really how they met 36 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 3: and even some of the stuff on the end of 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 3: the show and how they broke up and all that. 38 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 4: Like they got the first half an hour you could 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 4: skip through if you guys want to go listen to it. 40 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 4: If you want the full story and you want the 41 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 4: background about the controversy back in twenty twenty and all that, 42 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 4: watch the first half an hour. But if you want 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 4: to get to the current stuff, fast forward to about 44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 4: thirty five minutes and. 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: This is the part Ashley. 46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 3: I think that first jumped out to me, I watched 47 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 3: the whole thing, which I typically would never do, but 48 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: I was, for whatever, gerious, here's why I need your thoughts. 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 3: The first part that stood out to me was Rachel 50 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 3: kind of getting into the moments or the days before 51 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: the breakup where the enter. Yeah, I am not a 52 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 3: relationship expert, by no me and I really, you know, 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 3: sometimes am shocked that I have a wife that still 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: loves me. 55 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 4: You know what. I feel the same way. Sometimes I'm like, 56 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 4: I got someone to marry me, let alone someone that 57 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 4: I love. 58 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: But one of the things, and I talked to Jess 59 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: about this last night, I think one of the things 60 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: that has made our one of the many things that 61 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 3: she does in our relationship and one of the things 62 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 3: we do is a couple that has made our relationship 63 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 3: work is we oftentimes, I would say ninety percent of 64 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: the time that especially when we can we sit down 65 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: to dinner together and we catch up on our day, 66 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: that's when we ask, you know, the questions that we ask, 67 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: what's your highlight, what's your low light of the day, 68 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: and is there anything on your mind right now that 69 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 3: we could talk about, and we let our conversation go 70 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 3: from there when Rachel said that when they sit down 71 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 3: for dinner, they're filming it. Immediately, I said, if you 72 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 3: want a recipe for relationship to it point, get have conflict, 73 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 3: to feel out of touch, to have issues from a 74 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 3: lack of communication, start filming those intimate moments like a 75 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 3: dinner together every time. 76 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 4: Every time. That was interesting to me and our producer Sydney. 77 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 4: We were talking about this before we started recording. It 78 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 4: was like, every single meal that you guys go out 79 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,239 Speaker 4: to needs to be recorded. You should definitely have rules 80 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 4: like once a week we don't record it. 81 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: I mean, it could have been an over dramatization. 82 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 4: Just it totally could have. 83 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: But let's say, let's say it's seventy five percent of 84 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 3: the time. I mean, damn, let's say it's fifty percent 85 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 3: of the time they're filming this Dinner's think about Ashley, 86 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: You're you're really good at this now, right, this comes 87 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 3: very natural to you, jumping on camera, you know, Freddie 88 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: talking on a camera, but there's still a level of 89 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: you turning it on when that phone starts recording, right, Really, 90 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: oh yeah, you're aware of it. You're not like just 91 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 3: relaxed that you're working and that camera's on at a dinner, 92 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 3: it always is gonna start or it's gonna start feeling 93 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: like work. It's gonna start feeling like, Okay, can I 94 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 3: have this bite of food? 95 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: Is there going to be food on my face? 96 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: Or hey, can I ask Matt this question about where 97 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 3: he's at in our relationship and is he going to 98 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: be upset with me? Because I'm gonna want to do 99 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 3: it maybe during a dinner that he's going to want 100 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 3: to be filming, and so we're gonna have to spend 101 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 3: thirty minutes of this dinner actually having a conversation that 102 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 3: matters and not just worrying about how the food looks 103 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 3: or how it's plated, or when the waiter's coming up 104 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 3: to drop the dishes. I I would say, I'm going 105 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: to go this far. I'm going to give people advice 106 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 3: out there. Don't do this Like we just talked about 107 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: it last week, Ashley. One of the things for kids 108 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 3: when they grew up in a house that means the 109 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 3: most of them over time is when they sat down 110 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 3: with their family for dinner. It's a experience. So as 111 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 3: a couple, do it invest into that time. I'm not 112 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: saying you can't ever film it or you can take 113 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 3: pictures of it. That's their job. Yeah, but it felt 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: like at some point Rachel was wanting to say to Matt, hey, 115 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 3: this is getting overwhelming for me. 116 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. I felt bad because there's obviously she was like 117 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 4: so nervous to pick the restaurant because she knew that 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 4: it was his job, and she knew how much weight 119 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 4: just a restaurant choice would be that we would be 120 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 4: a wasted meal if they went out and it wasn't 121 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 4: Instagram content. 122 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: A wasted meal is the word she used, doesn't it? 123 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 4: Yeah? And I feel that makes me feel just makes 124 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 4: me feel okay. There's like there it just and he 125 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 4: got upset that she got upset when she was disappointed 126 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 4: that she picked the wrong place because she sort of 127 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 4: felt like she failed him and that kind of it 128 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 4: makes me feel okay. And I was just thinking that. 129 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 4: He was like, her tears freaked him out, and she 130 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 4: was like, if you're getting so upset over this, how 131 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 4: are you gonna be when something actually bad happens? And 132 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 4: I'm like, how do you not know this about her? 133 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 4: After four years? But also, come on, now, we all 134 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 4: have our moments, Like she said, she was like, I 135 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 4: was just in a highly emotional state. I was like PMS, 136 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 4: I was on my period and blah blah blah. 137 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: I was just not. 138 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: Feeling like myself and you have like those emotional breakdowns. 139 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 4: So him being judging over it, Well, no. 140 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 3: We But first, Ashley, so you're running through the things 141 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: that Rachel has said during the show. So, if you 142 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: haven't listened to the show yet with Rachel, what Ashley 143 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,679 Speaker 3: is saying is Rachel brought up some of these topics 144 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 3: that picking a dinner was stressful for her. She starts 145 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: crying at the dinner. So that's why I want to 146 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: be clear and clarifying. If you haven't watch this yet, 147 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 3: I don't know if people will like listening will know 148 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: what you're talking about. She said, she started crying at 149 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: dinner because it was overwhelming for her, Yeah, to pick 150 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: these dinners that she had the stress of picking at 151 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: dinner because she didn't want it to be a wasted 152 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: meal for Matt to shoot content at, because they'd shot 153 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 3: content at many of these things. And then the final 154 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: point that I want to dig into with you here 155 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 3: is when Rachel said, historically, when she gets upset, Matt 156 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 3: gives just gives her space. 157 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, and she doesn't want space. 158 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 2: She says, she doesn't want space. 159 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: And then and actually, I want you to clarify this 160 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 3: because I think this is the turning point in the 161 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: relationship for them. Matt once she starts crying at dinner 162 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: and she's like, Hey, I'm sorry, I got a little emotional. 163 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: I just started my period and I was like stressed 164 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: out about picking the spot. 165 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: He says this. 166 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: He says, how how are you going to deal with 167 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: some of the bigger things in life if something like 168 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 3: this throws you off so much? 169 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 4: It just seems like a really accusatory statement. I want 170 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 4: to give Matt a little bit of credit here. It's 171 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 4: not as if like I haven't cried and Jared hasn't 172 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 4: gotten annoyed at it before you know where He's like, 173 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 4: can we just have a conversation without you crying? You 174 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 4: know what I mean? But the way I just think 175 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 4: that a lot of the interview to me lends to 176 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 4: the fact that I think Matt was looking for a 177 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 4: way out for quite some time and he didn't know 178 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 4: how to do it, and there was moments in this 179 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 4: trip to Tokyo that gave him his. 180 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: In Ashley, I think you are you're spot on from 181 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: a perspective, Yes, there's been arguments or conversations. I mean, 182 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 3: Jessica is a very emotional human, Like she sometimes cries 183 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 3: just because she's like. 184 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: I don't get it. I don't understand it. It doesn't 185 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: make me. 186 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 3: I've never done that, but like, yeah, if Whalen comes 187 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 3: up and jumps on her lap and I'm sitting next 188 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 3: to her holding her hand, like, there's a good chance 189 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 3: Jessica is gonna start crying, and it just happens that way, 190 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: and so I understand Matt's. 191 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 2: A bet. Over time, Matt was like. 192 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: Hey, it feels like we can't have these deep conversations 193 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 3: because you're going to get overly emotional. Now, I say 194 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: that from my perspective, right, because it is something you 195 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: think about in a relationship. However, I'll go back to 196 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: this dinner conversation. I don't think the two of them 197 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 3: were ever in a practice of having deep conversations. 198 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 1: I think so. 199 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 2: I think it was. 200 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 3: I think it was very rare for them to actually 201 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: dig in. 202 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 4: The general vibe that I got was that they were 203 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 4: not as deep into a relationship as you would expect 204 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 4: one to be. After four years. 205 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 3: That that's a great way to say. I think there's 206 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: practices and I think there's things done. I also think 207 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 3: it's the spirit at which these conversations come in with 208 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 3: I mean, I heard this, and if it's coming from 209 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: a place of if it's coming from a bad place, 210 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 3: that kind of criticism could hit deep. 211 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 2: Right, how am I expect you? Know? 212 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 3: How do I expect you to be a good partner 213 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: to me? If this is something that there's you all 214 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: so much. The reverse of that in a healthy relationship 215 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: is sitting with your partner and saying, hey, like, there's 216 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 3: going to be big and little things that happen in life, 217 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 3: and as a couple, we're on a team here, So 218 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: how do we get through these things together so that 219 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: neither of us get thrown off? 220 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 2: Because when you get emotional, well I get upset. 221 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 3: And confused, and you know, I want to run away, 222 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: and when you get upset, you shut down, and so 223 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 3: how are we going to deal with this together? Totally 224 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 3: different conversation than the you statements. Maybe it's more of 225 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 3: an I statement that was needed. Is I feel like 226 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: flustered when you get upset, So I need to know, 227 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 3: you know, you need in these moments but you already 228 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 3: said it when I heard it. Something had happened in 229 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 3: his life. He was looking for this out. That's my 230 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 3: that's my take. Now, that's my assumption is he was 231 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: waiting for that moment to to, you know, where, all 232 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 3: of a sudden it broke and he said, Hey, we're done. 233 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 2: This was not like a random event. This was not 234 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: her getting emotional. Uh. 235 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: She was incredible during this interview of giving him the 236 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 3: respect oh so much, the pains that she was feeling. 237 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: And I think the one thing that maybe over time 238 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: she'll realize is, yes, this was the moment that it ended. 239 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: It felt like in his mind it had ended before this. 240 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 4: She does mention that he said things really close to 241 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 4: the breakup like I'm so happy you're my partner and stuff, 242 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 4: and that he even so many times on Instagram said 243 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 4: I'm looking for a ring and engagement's happening. And I 244 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 4: just feel like this was sort of his way of 245 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 4: talking him into himself into her being the one. But 246 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 4: I think he has known for quite some time that 247 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 4: she wasn't the person that he wanted to be with. 248 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 4: And do you know what my theory is on the 249 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 4: fact that he posted so soon after well, I think 250 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 4: he was like, if I put this out there to 251 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 4: the public, it makes it so real that we can't 252 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 4: go back on this decision. 253 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 254 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: Well, the social media world reacted last night very much 255 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: against Matt for how he posted, when he posted, and 256 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 3: how soon he posted, knowing that she wasn't going to 257 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 3: be able to see it. I do think it was 258 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 3: And she said that he has now owned up this 259 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: and apologized to it, and she does believe he's sorry 260 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 3: for how this went down. I do think it was 261 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 3: incredibly disrespectful, especially in a public relationship, to share so 262 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: soon when she wasn't able to tell her family or 263 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 3: friends yet and have the space to, you know, heal 264 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: a little bit before you walk into this, you know, 265 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 3: this breakup. I think that was a massive mistake on 266 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: his end. I don't understand what he was thinking, but 267 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: you're probably right. Maybe it was that stake in the 268 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 3: ground saying now we can move on, Which leads me, 269 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 3: Ashley to the kind of the next point that most 270 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 3: people were reacting very powerfully to last night on social 271 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: media is Rachel said that since the breakup, they have 272 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: been in communication and that that Matt continues to call 273 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 3: her to check. 274 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 2: In on her. 275 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, don't like it, but I understand what he's doing too. 276 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: Okay, So if we're going to give an explanation for 277 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: Matt with and I want to be clear with your 278 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: start of the sentence being I don't like it. Uh, 279 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 3: and I don't like it either. I don't think it's healthy. 280 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 3: But from a breakup perspective, what do you think he's doing? 281 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 4: Well? I think that an expert would say that he's 282 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 4: keeping her on the chain. M but my gut reaction 283 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 4: and knowing somebody very close to me that would definitely 284 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 4: do this, there's just so much guilt, Like was it 285 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 4: Alex had mentioned the guilt or was it Rachel? And 286 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 4: it may have been both. He's experiencing so much guilt 287 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 4: that he just wants to make sure that she's okay. 288 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 4: And the person that I know that QC for one, 289 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 4: Chase does it because this person feels so guilty breaking 290 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 4: up with another person. But then the other interpretation of 291 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 4: that would be it's a selfish act because it prevents 292 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 4: the person that was dumped from moving on. 293 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: Can I add an element into this that I think 294 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: is happening. 295 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 3: I don't want to say I think's happening here because 296 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: I don't know the two of them well, I mean, 297 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 3: I don't know him personally at all, so I can't 298 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 3: say this is who he is or what he's doing. 299 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 3: But I do know this from relationships and even things 300 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 3: I've done in the past. Personally, there's a little bit 301 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 3: of protection here too, where when you continue to communicate 302 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 3: with that person it's really hard or in your mind 303 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: you think it's hard for them to go out and 304 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: bash you. It sounds like Matt wants to be known, 305 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 3: and from Rachel's words, so it's what we take that 306 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 3: he's a good guy. You know, he didn't meet he 307 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: doesn't want to hurt her, he doesn't want to hurt people. 308 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 3: I'm assuming that Matt holds that character very and very 309 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 3: high regard personally, and so a little bit of this 310 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 3: checking in could be a reminder to her of remember, 311 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 3: I'm a good guy, I still care about you. I 312 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: don't want you hurting. What can I do in this moment. 313 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 3: I don't think it's healthy. I think it's a I 314 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 3: think he needs to stop it because what it does 315 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: do is it does all the things you said. It 316 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: keeps her, you know, connected to him, keeps him connected 317 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: to her. It strings this thing along. It does selfishly 318 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 3: satisfy any guilt maybe that you have where you can say, oh, 319 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 3: I still am checking in on her. He needs to 320 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 3: stop it, because breakups are that you have to rip 321 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 3: the band aid off as soon as possible, and you 322 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 3: have to allow both people to move on, even if 323 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 3: it feels like rock bottom. But I do think there's 324 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: a level of personal protection when it comes to moments 325 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 3: of letting, like continuing to communicate with somebody just so 326 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 3: they are reminded, which is so hard now that I 327 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: say it, like this after you broke up with him, 328 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 3: just so they reminded that, yeah, I'm still the guy 329 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 3: always No. 330 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. Also an element of like being a public breakup. 331 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,239 Speaker 4: I'm thinking that, like he's also checking up on her, 332 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 4: how how she's doing with the like the media and 333 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 4: the fandom. Sure, but you know what, do you would 334 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 4: you do this if it weren't for that? Probably? But 335 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 4: do I think it would be appropriate for him to 336 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 4: have one phone call with her after landing back from Tokyo. Absolutely, 337 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 4: they definitely needed to have another phone call. Could he 338 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 4: have texted her a few days after that phone call? 339 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 4: How you're holding up? Something like that, that'd be okay. 340 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 4: What it sounds like is that they're having long conversations 341 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 4: on the phone. 342 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like he is wanting to communicate with 343 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 3: her more often that's health than that's healthy. And it 344 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 3: sounds like she now has been clear to him that 345 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: that's no longer what she needs or wants. And you 346 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 3: know what, I have no doubt from this conversation that 347 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 3: there was love a lot of love between the two 348 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 3: of them, and so this is going to be really 349 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 3: hard to move on from. But they need to move 350 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 3: on from it. I think that's when it came to 351 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 3: my public breakup. That was the best advice I was 352 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: ever given was hey, almost in a sense, and this 353 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 3: is what was said to me. So I'll say it, 354 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 3: suck it up, rip the band aid off, and start 355 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 3: to heal, Like, don't stop playing these scenarios out of 356 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 3: the past, Stop letting your mind wander to good and 357 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 3: bad places. Stop you know, remembering all the reasons why 358 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 3: it led up to this point. Rip the band aid off, 359 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 3: put your steak in the ground, and step forward into 360 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 3: life again. And I think that's the healthiest way to 361 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 3: move on. You both need to move on hopefully. I 362 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 3: believe they're both going to find new partners at some point. 363 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 3: That's going to be another weird moment for the two 364 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 3: of them, right to start to build something new from 365 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: scratch with somebody else. But letting it continue like it 366 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 3: is right now for any longer becomes really confusing mentally, 367 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 3: especially when it breaks kind of happens out of nowhere, 368 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 3: as Rachel was saying, because this came as a surprise, 369 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 3: and so in her mind she never led up to 370 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: this point, right, she was still picturing kids in a 371 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 3: marriage with this man, and then this breakup happens. She 372 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 3: needs to he needs to let her go so that 373 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 3: she can start to come to terms the fact that 374 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 3: this is over, this is done. 375 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 4: The last ten minutes or so, Alex really just takes 376 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 4: girl time with her and is like, I want you 377 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 4: to know, like you're going to look back on this 378 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 4: interview in about six months and you're going to be 379 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 4: so happy that this is over. You're going to find 380 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 4: someone so great for you, and you're going to realize 381 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 4: why it never worked out with Matt. And after watching 382 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 4: Rachel for an hour and a half, I felt so 383 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 4: much the same way. It's weird. I was also talking 384 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 4: with our producer sitting before this. We have it's been 385 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 4: so long since we saw Rachel on the show, and 386 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 4: even on the show, we didn't get to know her 387 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 4: that well, and even through social media they have separated themselves. 388 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 4: In the Bachelor, a lot of it has been like 389 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 4: food and travel related, and she hasn't exposed a lot 390 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 4: of herself. So this was like one of the first 391 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 4: times we really got to know her. She has been mysterious. 392 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 3: I'm really glad that she did this interview. I think 393 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 3: Alex did a great job walking Rachel through it, pointing 394 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: out some of the things that Rachel was saying that 395 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 3: you feel in a relationship, Like Rachel was bringing up that, 396 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 3: you know, she felt like she was apologizing a lot. 397 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. 398 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 3: That Matt, you know, said that she kind of wasn't 399 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 3: owning the stuff that she was doing. Alex was really 400 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 3: good at kind of being pointing out like, hey, Rachel, 401 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 3: you're saying this, and I get why you feel this, 402 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 3: and I understand who you are as a human, but 403 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 3: that isn't true, right, Not everybody's gonna make you feel 404 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: this way, and so don't live in that Lie. I 405 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 3: thought that was great, and I'm really glad Rachel did 406 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 3: the interview. Granted, if she was never a public figure, 407 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 3: this would feel very weird, right, but it does. I 408 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 3: think she was respectful to Matt. I think she was 409 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 3: respectful to the relationship, even if maybe she doesn't fully 410 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 3: feel that all the time. But she also gave us 411 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: a glimpse of who she is, and I think she 412 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 3: is a beautiful person who we've seen publicly be very 413 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: funny and who is very empathetic and very kind and 414 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 3: very wise. And so now I don't think this was 415 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 3: a good thing for Matt, Like I don't think people 416 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: are gonna love. 417 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 2: Him any anymore. 418 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do think this was a good thing 419 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 3: for her to do, to kind of give her perspective 420 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 3: on everything, kind of own, you know, this moment and 421 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: say this is who we were, this is who we are, 422 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 3: and this is who I want to be going forward. 423 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 3: So I I have nothing but great things to say 424 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: about Rachel, and I agree with what Alexander Matt actually said. 425 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: Rachel is going to have a beautiful next season of life. 426 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And I do want to just touch before 427 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 4: we leave on the fact that that was an ongoing 428 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 4: theme that she had to apologize in every fight that 429 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 4: got She felt as if it was like a full circle, 430 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 4: like she kind of started the argument and then she 431 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 4: found herself at the end of it, like apologizing for 432 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 4: the argument. And I think that looking back, that could 433 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 4: also be a hint that he was trying to start 434 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: fights and if they wanted to be ended, she had 435 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 4: to end them because he may have wanted to secretly 436 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 4: end of the relationship. It could just be a crappy 437 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 4: quality and something that you have a relationship with. 438 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean possibly, I think it's probably an in 439 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 3: maturity and communication I have just can I have this 440 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 3: often in our relationship. It is something that we've gone 441 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 3: to couples counseling for, uh, to try to get better 442 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 3: how we communicate in the midst of arguments. It is 443 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 3: never intentional on either of our parts to make that 444 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 3: loop come back to the person, but it's happened many 445 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: times and often now we kind of have a joke 446 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 3: about it because of how many times it's happened, where 447 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 3: it's like at the end of a conversation that maybe 448 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 3: we came into saying something like I was hurt or 449 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 3: I was I'm I'm feeling this way, and then again 450 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 3: we're like the person that brought it up is the 451 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 3: one apologizing. 452 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: We have a joke like that was wild, Like. 453 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 4: Wait, this is actually so relatable. Now I'm taken back 454 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 4: what I'm thinking because yeah, so oftentimes the person that 455 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 4: says like, ugh, that was you know who snaps is like, well, 456 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 4: obviously the snapper would say sorry for snapping, but yeah, 457 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 4: to apologize for the thing that the arguments are sure, 458 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 4: I understand totally. 459 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 2: So I don't think maybe it was as. 460 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 3: I think if most couples in relationship thought about it 461 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 3: like that can happen because oftentimes the person reacting, I 462 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 3: think yeah, is coming from an emotional spot and it 463 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 3: could be true and it could not be, but that 464 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 3: person oftentimes does end up apologizing because the other person's like, 465 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 3: I never meant it that way. I was just saying 466 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 3: that in passing, or I was trying to make a 467 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 3: joke with you or whatever like that was not coming 468 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 3: from a place of trying to hurt you. So the 469 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 3: best way I think to close these conversations, if there 470 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 3: is a healthy way sometimes, and this is what we 471 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 3: learned through therapy, is just to end the conversation with hey, 472 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: I love you and give a hug and like, yeah, 473 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 3: we're good. Like because if you take it on forever, 474 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 3: like if you draw these arguments out all the time, 475 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: it's going to have to end with somebody apologizing, because 476 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 3: that's just kind of a good way to close it. 477 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: And I think that was what happening. These were just 478 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 2: going in loops. 479 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 3: Instead of just saying, Okay, I hear you, I understand 480 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 3: where you're coming from, and I love you. That was 481 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 3: not to me, but that Twitter or ex reacted pretty 482 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 3: strongly to that, and I get how because it does 483 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 3: sound like every time she was apologizing, I just heard 484 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 3: it and I was like, I in the midst of 485 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 3: a relationship, those moments happen. Or maybe I'm just unique 486 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 3: and I'm a terrible dude too, and that's how it. 487 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 4: No, I appreciate you bringing up the other side, but I. 488 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 3: Don't want to be an apologist. So in closing here, 489 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 3: for Matt, I think what he did and how he 490 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 3: broke up this up. Breakups, we should not like demonize 491 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 3: somebody for having a breakup. This is gonna be the 492 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 3: best thing for Rachel in the end, Like she's gonna 493 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 3: be great. 494 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 4: The two big things that I think people can get 495 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 4: on for Matt if you're looking to get on for 496 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 4: something is obviously the post timing and the fact that 497 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 4: he didn't get her approval for any of that, and 498 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 4: secondly for stringing her along, her along for so long. 499 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 4: Four years is so long. She's in She's twenty nine, 500 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 4: you know, so she's it's not like she's wasted like 501 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 4: eighteen through twenty two. You know, these her formative dating years. 502 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 4: She was like really thinking that she was with the 503 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 4: person that she was gonna be with forever. If he 504 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 4: had had doubts for a while, he needed to step 505 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 4: stringing her along. 506 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 3: Yes, I think there was manipulative behavior on his legate. 507 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 3: I think that he strung her along. I think that 508 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 3: how he did the breakup showed a level of a 509 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 3: lack of wisdom and a lack of empathy and a 510 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 3: lack of care. I don't want to be an apologist 511 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 3: for Matt. I'm just saying some of this stuff. I 512 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 3: think we react strongly to it when we don't see 513 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 3: the plank in her own eye and say, oh, yeah, 514 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 3: I could I've actually I have those same struggles in relationship. 515 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 3: I have those same dynamics sometimes and my healthy, loving marriage. 516 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 3: Some of this stuff was just bringing to light some 517 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 3: things that a lot of us could relate with if 518 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: we look and you know, look inside of our own 519 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 3: relationships and own some of the mistakes that we make 520 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 3: as well. 521 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: Uh. 522 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 3: So I don't and I don't and I don't want 523 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 3: to demonize him for having this breakup. 524 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 2: Breakups happen again. 525 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 3: I I think it's going to be for the best 526 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: for both of them. I don't think he was the 527 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 3: right match for Rachel. I think Rachel's going to find 528 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 3: somebody incredible here, uh, and somebody that treats her consistently 529 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 3: with love, care, empathy and looks at her with these 530 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 3: awe struck eyes every day, like, how in the world 531 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 3: did I get lucky enough to be with you? I 532 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 3: believe that's coming her way. I do, uh, And I'm 533 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: excited for that chapter for her. I also want to 534 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 3: say that I do for a breakup to happen so recently. 535 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 3: Rachel gave a level of respect, care, consideration, and wisdom. 536 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 3: If I was Matt, I think it would be awkward 537 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 3: and kind of like feel weird to see this really 538 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 3: this interview happen, But if I listened to it, I 539 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,239 Speaker 3: would walk out of it going I get it. 540 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 2: I can't really be mad at you for the doing this. 541 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 3: I hope he's not, And even if he is, I 542 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 3: don't know if it matters now, But yeah, I think 543 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 3: he was in the wrong. 544 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: I just don't. Well. 545 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 3: The one thing I refuse to do is to sit 546 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: here and say, oh my gosh, how could he break 547 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 3: up with her? That's not the point. 548 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: The point how he did it totally and the actions afterwards. 549 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 4: Now, Alex made a really good point. She said, You're 550 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 4: going to be so grateful that he put that post 551 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 4: out without your knowledge and so quickly, because you looking 552 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 4: back on this, being like this was just a great 553 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 4: guy and a great guy that I wanted to be with, 554 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 4: is going to hurt you for so much longer looking 555 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 4: back and knowing that he did this is going to 556 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 4: be what prevents you from wanting to go back. You 557 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 4: needed a boom. 558 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, she needed that steak in the ground. 559 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 4: Maybe that's it, right, And I think that subconsciously, consciously, 560 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 4: I don't know, Matt maybe sort of knew that. M 561 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 4: M no, you think it was fully selfish that he 562 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 4: did They did the post. 563 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. 564 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 3: Okay, I think there was only I think one hundred percent. 565 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 3: I maybe the only thing I can think that might 566 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 3: have happened. Again, I don't know, Matt, but my guess 567 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 3: is maybe he thought it. He did it thinking that 568 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 3: he would benefit from it, like there was some world 569 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: in which he thought you would like benefit from this post. 570 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 4: The benefit is that he I mean, in my point opinion, 571 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 4: the benefit is that he put it out there so 572 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 4: that it was done. He's like, I'm my hands are 573 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 4: clean of this relationship. 574 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 3: Not knowing it was going to skyrocket Rachel into the 575 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 3: spotlight now for a long time. 576 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 2: And I think that's awesome. 577 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 4: I think it's kind of like an arionomatic situation, right, 578 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 4: except for he wasn't a dirty, dirty teator. 579 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 2: I think it will be great for her, and I 580 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: love that. I do. 581 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 4: Yes, she already has a million views on this podcast 582 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 4: after twelve hours, and that is the views on YouTube, 583 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 4: not the listens included. 584 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's going to do just well, Alex Cooper, I 585 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 2: guess is going to do just fine. 586 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 4: From my goodness, courageous. I don't know what her numbers 587 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 4: are like usually after twelve hours, but holy Molly, I. 588 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 2: Have to assume this is a big one. Hey. In summary, 589 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: Rachel's awesome. She had a great interview. 590 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 3: Alex did do a great job walking through this interview 591 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 3: and facilitating the interview. I guess the hope in any breakup, 592 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 3: especially public, that they both can move on now. And 593 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 3: the biggest takeaway for me is like, stop communicating and 594 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: start moving on because the future is very bright for Rachel, 595 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 3: especially right now, and I think she's excited to start 596 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 3: a family and to be in relationship. So go out 597 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 3: and listen to it if you haven't yet. This was 598 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 3: our breakdown kind of the things said and the thoughts 599 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 3: that came to our mind during this interview. But if 600 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 3: you haven't listened to it yet, it's very much worth 601 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 3: the time if you're curious about somebody's breakup, to go 602 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 3: out and listen to it. 603 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 2: So until next time, I've been Been, I've been Ashley. 604 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 4: See you guys. 605 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on 606 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.