1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Before we get into it, be advised that this series 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: contains bad language and references to violence. It doesn't exist anymore, 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: but right on the bank of the Savannah, on the 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: border between South Carolina and Georgia, there was once a 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: famous town. The place is a golf course nowadays, but 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: back in the eighteen seventies, Hamburg was a center of 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: black political power. The mayor and sheriff were black, Most 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: of the city officials were black. Black state politicians lived 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: in Hamburg in a land where many white citizens still 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: mourned the abolition of slavery just ten short years earlier. 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: Hamburg was a safe haven for African Americans trying to 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: move up in the world. But on January eighth, eighteen 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: seventy six, all of that changed. There was talk the 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: white people would come through and say something's about to 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: happen at Hamburg. So African Americans kind of knew that 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: something was going to happen, they just didn't know what. 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,279 Speaker 1: That's Wayne O'Briant. He's a historian who lives five miles 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: away from the site of old Hamburg. Wayne spent a 19 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: lot of his life studying the town and the people 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: who lived there. He told me about the Hamburg massacre 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: that July day, when a white mob hundreds strong arrived 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 1: in the town. According to a paper from the time, 23 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: they were armed with shotguns, revolvers, whose axes, and pitchforks. Oh, 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: and they brought a cannon, an actual cannon. The mob's 25 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: mission is to disarm Hamburg's garrison of black militiamen, one 26 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: of whom is Wayne's ancestor, my great great grandfather's brother, 27 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: was named with Needum or Bryant. He was actually going 28 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: around the town at the time telling everybody to stay 29 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: indoors and saying that if you're not going to give 30 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: up your weapons, y'all need to, you know, batten everything 31 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: down and just stay inside, you know, and hopefully this 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: thing will blow over. It wouldn't be so easy. The 33 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: mob surrounds the black militiaman, besieging them in a brick 34 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: warehouse that serves as the town's armory. As nightfalls, the 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: mob begins to rain down musket and cannon fire on 36 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: the armory. At least one militiaman is killed. The town 37 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: sheriff is hunted down. According to some accounts, they cut 38 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: his tongue from his head. The residence of Hamburg can 39 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: do nothing but hide and pray. The mob finally disperses 40 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: late at night on July. By that time over a 41 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: thousand people strong. Before they go home, the mob ransacks 42 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: black homes and shops and executes five black townsmen. They 43 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: discussed the horror and the terror that would be in 44 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: African American people's eyes and hearts when they woke up 45 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: the next morning saw seven stiff bodies on the ground. 46 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: Terror is exactly the point. The Hamburg massacre took place 47 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: in an election year, and some white South Carolinians had 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: reached across roads. They knew that South Carolina was about 49 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: six black before the Civil War, which had ended eleven 50 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: years before, the black majority it had no input on elections, 51 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: But now that African American men could legally vote, the 52 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: electoral landscape had changed. Some white Southerners were waking up 53 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: to the fact that multiracial democracy was a losing proposition 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: for them. They decided to do something about it. Hamburg 55 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: was the obvious place for them to strike first. The 56 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: massacre was just the start. After they left Hamburg, same 57 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: group started marching onto different towns and you know, doing 58 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: the same thing. Yes, I into just murder African Americans. 59 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: The rest of the year was dedicated to terrorizing African 60 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: Americans to keep them away from the fool The plan 61 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: was put into place that every white man has a 62 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: duty to control at least two Black votes. You can 63 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: do it by threat. You can do it by you know, violence. 64 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: You can do it if you had to kill them, 65 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: but you had to make sure that at least two 66 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: African Americans did not vote. The plan worked. Many African 67 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: Americans were prevented from voting. Those that did vote did 68 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: so under the threat of violence, and the next year, 69 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: when Northern forces left the South at the end of reconstruction, 70 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: white Southerners had a free hand to take back power. 71 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: Black lawmakers were forced out of office and practically, if 72 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: not legally, they lost the right to vote altogether. Wayne 73 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: has a record of one of his ancestors on the 74 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: South Carolina voter roles in seventy six, the year of 75 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: the Hamburg massacre. After that, there's no record of anyone 76 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: in his family voting for another ninety two years. Mult 77 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: the racial democracy died in America. It wouldn't return until 78 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, when African Americans were at long last 79 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: granted full suffrage, but the story doesn't in there. On 80 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: the sixth of January, the spirit of the Hamburg massacre 81 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: came to Washington, d C. White mob violence was once 82 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: again deployed as a tool to subvert democracy at the 83 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: Capitol Riot. The violence happened after the election, not before, 84 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: as it had at Hamburg, but the intent was the same, 85 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: to influence an election by force. As Wayne O'Bryant watched 86 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: the siege unfold on TV, he felt a sense of 87 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: weary familiarity. If people knew history, they would recognize the immediately. 88 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: These things are all, you know, tied together. It's just 89 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: like one long story, and if you know all the points, 90 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: then you can see how the story goes. The tactives 91 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: have worked in the past, and every so often you 92 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: see old tactics being dusted off and maybe rebranded. But 93 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: there's the same thing. What if Wayne's right, What if 94 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: the story is repeating? Is white mob violence returning as 95 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: a political tool the final recourse for people who feel 96 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: their power slipping away from the team's at Cool Zone Media, 97 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and novel. This is the Assault on 98 00:06:37,600 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: America Episode one, The Digital Fever Spot The Road to 99 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,239 Speaker 1: the Capital Riot on January sixth, twenty twenty one, starts 100 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: with a lie. You've probably heard people talk about the 101 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: big lie. It's a term that dates back to before 102 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: the Second World War. You'll see a lot of quotes 103 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: about the big lie attributed to Joseph Gebel's or Adolf Hitler, 104 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: but neither man was the kind to admit their own falsehoods. 105 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: The best definition of how big lie tactics work really 106 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: comes from a profile the O. S. S, precursor to 107 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: the c I A wrote about Hitler quote. His primary 108 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: rules were never allow the public to cool off, Never 109 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: admit a fault or wrong, Never concede that there may 110 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: be some good in your enemy, Never leave room for alternatives, 111 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: never except blame. Concentrate on one enemy at a time, 112 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: and blame him for everything that goes wrong. People will 113 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and 114 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or 115 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: later believe it. The most recent and most dangerous big 116 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: lie to hit US politics is the falsehood that the 117 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: U S presidential election was fraudulent. It says that once 118 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: you discount the dumped ballots, the Venezuelan voting machines, the 119 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: dead voters, the voting dogs, the biased election officials, and 120 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: all the other totally plausible reasons. Then Joe Biden didn't 121 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: win the US election at all. Rather, he lost by 122 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: millions of votes. According to the big lie, Donald Trump 123 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: took the White House in November, and it wasn't even close. 124 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: On January six, the whole world saw where that lie 125 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: took us. What we have yet to see is how 126 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: much further it can still take us. Was the siege 127 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: at the capital the last convulsion of a dying Trump 128 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: presidency or was it the start of a new civil war. 129 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans, an investigative journalist at Bellancat, and in 130 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: this series, I'll be investigating the why, the how, and 131 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: the who behind the first mass breach of the US 132 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: capital since the British stormed Washington in eighteen fourteen. I'm 133 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: going to dig into the events of January six in 134 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: forensic detail, all identify key players who spread disinformation and 135 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: helped to create a riot. I'll speak to those who 136 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: know them best and the experts trying to figure out 137 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: how we got here. With their help, I'll trace the 138 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: stories of instigators, militia leaders, and far right influencers whose 139 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: poison has seeped into every corner of America and honestly 140 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: might be the thing that tears us all apart. It's 141 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: a fraud and it's a shame. I'm talking about some 142 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: massive straight lines up in the vote tallies after they've 143 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: supposedly stopped counting. We'll shut down is country. We have 144 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: to the bike patch does the right thing. We win 145 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: the election. I've been plotting, I've been planning. I've been 146 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: scheming to damn today. It's the day American patriots start 147 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: taking down names and Chicken as he's any school relationship 148 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: is on the ground here where we went on the 149 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: cab overran the Capitol. In the Capital, they've got the 150 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: gallows bit upside of the Capitol building. This guy can 151 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: start fucking years and up in the cap and the 152 00:10:37,240 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: revolution we will. We will stop the steel. To understand 153 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: how the Capital riot was conceived and planned, we have 154 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: to get into some pretty murky online spaces. This is 155 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: kind of my home turf. Unfortunately for me, I spend 156 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: quite a lot of my time lurking on what you 157 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: might call controversial internet message boards places like eight chan, 158 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: and encrypted social media apps like telegram. These online communities 159 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: are filled with trolls pretending to be neo Nazis, Neo 160 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: Nazis pretending to be patriots, militiamen LARPing as real soldiers, 161 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: and actual soldiers viewing far right hate. I think of 162 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: these places as a kind of digital fever swamp. My 163 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: job is to document what happens when this swamp leaks 164 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: into the real world. Usually I'm monitoring small, dangerous groups, 165 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: the type of people who celebrate racist mass shootings like 166 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: the christ Church massacre. They spend these atrocities into propaganda, 167 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: creating false narratives that serve their cause with the big Lie. 168 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: Donald Trump applied this tactic to an entire nation. He 169 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 1: pulled off the biggest gas light in modern US history 170 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: in terms of online poison seeping into everyday life. This 171 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: was the bp oil spill of disinformation. Here's how it started. 172 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: Following the results of the November elections, the conversation really 173 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: shifted from people talking about the possibility of election fraud 174 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: to really believing that election fraud happened. Shira Frankel is 175 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: a tech reporter for the New York Times. Like me, 176 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: she spends an unhealthy amount of time online monitoring far 177 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: right groups, she witnessed in real time how a single 178 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: lie born online jumped like a plague bearing fleet into 179 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: people's minds. It really started in the day after the elections, 180 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 1: and it started as a Facebook group. On November four, 181 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: the day after the presidential election, Shearin noticed a new 182 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: group on Facebook. Welcome. It read to Stop the Steel 183 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: You're hearing the audio from a grainy video that was 184 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: posted on the original Stopped the Steel group. The footage 185 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: shows a crowd of Trump supporters gathered outside a voting 186 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: facility in Detroit, trying to stop officials from counting the 187 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: remaining votes, the majority of which were postal votes favoring Biden. 188 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: The pixelated, shaky footage quickly went viral. As it spread 189 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: across Facebook, more and more people found the new group. 190 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: This Facebook group grew faster than any other group I've 191 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: ever seen on Facebook, and I monitor these things quite closely. 192 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: And I recalled allowing Facebook up that day and saying, 193 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: do you see the numbers in this group? Every time 194 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: I checked their thousands of new members, and one of 195 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: their engineers where I was speaking to you you, said, the 196 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: numbers are crazy. We haven't seen this before. By the 197 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: morning of Thursday, November five, less than twenty two hours 198 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: after it was created. The group numbered more than three 199 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: d and twenty thousand users. By this point, the Detroit 200 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: video wasn't the only thing on there. They were sharing 201 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: videos and photographs that they claimed showed people illegally voting. 202 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: A lot of those photos were manipulated. Those videos were 203 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: some of them not even from this election cycle. One 204 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: of the really popular ones, you know, they showed dump 205 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: trucks of ballots, sort of dumping up of shredders going 206 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: through and shredding ballots. I'm watching all of the ballots 207 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: being shredded now one. Now those videos are real. They 208 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: come from previous elections where after the vote is counted 209 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: in tally, the election officials were shredd documents and that's 210 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: just something that happens. Or when you're done going through envelopes, 211 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: you will dump the empty envelopes, or sometimes you're dumping 212 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: blank envelopes to make sure they don't get used for 213 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: fraudulent purposes. So it's about taking things from the Internet 214 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: and just pulling them out of context and making them 215 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: frightening enough to people believe that this is actually showing 216 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: you vote to fraud. The crazy thing is it works. 217 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: If people think they're candidate is being cheated out of 218 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: an election, they'll do something about it. Who wouldn't. In 219 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: November and December, there were Stopped to Steel rallies almost 220 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: every weekend across America. Many of those attending echoed the 221 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: same points they saw online. If there's one vote that 222 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: is fraudulent, that's enough for me. This isn't a research project. 223 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: I'm not looking for statistically significant stuff. At what point 224 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: did Facebook, you know, put the kai bosh on all this? 225 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: Facebook shut down the original Stop Steel group fairly quickly 226 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: for violating its rules, and they were posting a ton 227 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: of misinformation and fake videos, and there was you know, 228 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: sorts of virtual in there. The problem, which we often 229 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: find to be the problem with Facebook, is that they 230 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: shut down one group, but they let dozens or even 231 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of other groups remain. When Facebook execs pulled the 232 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: plug on the original Stop the Steel Facebook group, the 233 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: damage was already done. There were dozens of other similar 234 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: groups sharing the same videos, spreading the same rumors, promoting 235 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: the same conspiracy theories fraudulent. The poison was spreading at 236 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: an unstoppable rate, and soon it's spilled over from Facebook 237 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: to the other platforms. It was this kind of piecemeal 238 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: approach which gave them time to move to Telegram and 239 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: to gathergely to all these other social media sites. It said, well, 240 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: if we get shut down, here, give us your email 241 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: address and we'll put you on our list server, and 242 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: we'll make sure that you stay in touch with us, 243 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: and we can keep feeding you this misinformation. And when 244 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: Facebook act in that way, when they act in a 245 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: piecemeal way or in a in a very slow kind 246 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: of way, it gives the bad actors time to organize 247 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: and rally and find a way around them. In short, 248 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: the horse had bolted, but Shira didn't let the story 249 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: escape her so easily. As the Trump supporters dispersed to 250 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: right leaning social media apps like parlor and gab, where 251 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: users can spread disinformation unchallenged, Shira went with them by 252 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: joined hundreds of different groups across different social media channels 253 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: that were dedicated to supporting him. How did you kind 254 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: of see the narratives and the conversations in these online 255 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 1: spaces shift In the weeks leading up to the capital attack, 256 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: after there were a series of legal complaints against the 257 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: elections that seemed to fail one after another, and these 258 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: sort of ongoing promises by President Trump and people in 259 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: his team that they would find people who had voted 260 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: illegally and they would find that the vote had actually 261 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: been fraudulent. People really amped up and believed that they're 262 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: sending millions of ballots all over the country. There's fraud. 263 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: They found him in Greeks. They found some with the 264 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: name Drumped just the other day in a waste paper basket. 265 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: And so the closer we got to January, the more 266 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: the more angry really the conversation was. The more people 267 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: who seemed to believe that the election had been stolen 268 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: from them, and that these moments in time that they 269 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: thought were going to reveal the truth, these lawsuits that 270 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: they thought were going to succeed, or these election results 271 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: that were going to be overturned. Every time that didn't happen, 272 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: they were more and more angry at the results of 273 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: the November elections. In the immediate lead up to the sixth, 274 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: did you see conversations about what kind of equipment they 275 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: planned to bring. As we got closer to January six 276 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: we started to see real time planning of how people 277 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: wanted to get to Washington and where they were going 278 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: to be staying. And part of that conversation in volved 279 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: weapons as well. People discussed are you going to put 280 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: a gun in the trunk of your car? Are you 281 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: going to come armed? What kind of bullets are you 282 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: going to bring with you? There was discussions of the 283 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: legality of transporting weapons across state lines, and then they 284 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: seem to be very real planning happening around bringing weapons 285 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: to Washington. What started as a single Facebook group on 286 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: November four had morphed into a national movement. People who 287 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: were once ordinary Facebook users are now one obscure far 288 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: right apps discussing the kind of ammunition that might be 289 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: best suited to helping them storm the nation's capital. What 290 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: was frightening is that you had members of the Republican Party. 291 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: You had voting officials coming out time and again and saying, 292 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: we've found no claims of vote fraud. You know, we've 293 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: looked at the lawsuits, We've given people a chance to 294 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: count and recount, and it's not here. You should trust 295 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: that your vote matters. You should trust that our voting 296 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: systems are secure. The most powerful condemnation of the trunk 297 00:19:54,720 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: campaigns fraud claims happened in Georgia. On December one, an 298 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: election official named Gabriel Sterling lost his cool during a 299 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: press statement. It had all gone too far, all of it. 300 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: It has to stop. Shortly before his speech, an election 301 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: official working under Sterling received a death threat, accompanied by 302 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: the image of a noose. Death threats, physical threats, intimidation. 303 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: It's too much. It's not right the way Sterling saw it, 304 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: Trump's claims about the election, We're putting officials in danger, 305 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: and to what end? Everyone knew the claims were bullshit, 306 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: These unsubstantiated claims. Are these claims that were just there 307 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: were false? Right Like? People investigated and they found that 308 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: these were not real claims. People still wanted to believe that, 309 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: and that's that's rightening. I think the public well of 310 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: information was being poisoned and people were knowingly drinking from it. 311 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: The sickness that followed was inevitable. I was sitting at 312 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: home in my office and I had a couple of 313 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: screens open on my laptop, and then I had a 314 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: second screen that was set up. One was on a 315 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: YouTube channel, another was tweet deck. On January six, Shira 316 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: was monitoring her screens, tracking the movements of the extremely 317 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: online crowd that gathered in d C. Good America. The 318 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: day started with a series of speeches at the Ellipse, 319 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: a park situated a few hundred yards south of the 320 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 1: White House. I watched a sort of the rally launched 321 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: and the speakers went on stage. They can lie, they 322 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: can cheat, they can steal. My father has started a movement, 323 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: and this movement will never ever die. I was waiting 324 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: for the moment where Trump got on stage that was right, 325 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: curious to hear what he would say, and I knew 326 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: that would likely play a large role in the response 327 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: of the crowd. I've been in two elections. I won 328 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: them both, and the second one I won much bigger 329 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: than the first. Okay, I remember vividly the moment where 330 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: he talked about march on the building. I think I 331 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: can't remember the words he used. And after this, we're 332 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: gonna walk down and I'll be there with you. We're 333 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: gonna walk down to the capital and we're gonna cheer 334 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're 335 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: probably not gonna be cheering so much for some of them, 336 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: because you'll never take back our country with weakness. It 337 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: sounded like a rallying cry when I heard it, and 338 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: so at that point I started looking more and more 339 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: at some of the chats I was in, and people 340 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: were giving each other instructions about how to get to 341 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: the Capitol building. And I think that was the first 342 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: moment where I realized, oh, this might go off the rails. 343 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: Like many of us, Shira was glued to her computer 344 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: as the crowd turned by looked That feeling of this 345 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: is going sideways intensified as they broke through that first 346 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: police barricade towards the Capitol Building, and you could watch 347 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: all this in a live stream. One of the things 348 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: I was doing is I was finding new live streams 349 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: as they were happening. Yo, Yo, we're on the steps 350 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: of the US Capitol. We're going in. I remember one 351 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: point I was watching a guy with a camera, and 352 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: then I recognized somebody behind him, a right wing figure 353 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: with another camera right behind him, and so I went 354 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: to go find his live stream because I knew they 355 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: would have different angles on the same scene. The moment 356 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: they got up to the building, when it was clear 357 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: they were actually reaching the building, we were just sort 358 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: of watching this in real time. And what was amazing 359 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: was that how many people felt emboldened to record this 360 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: in real time and to eric live foots on the ground. Here, 361 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: we're moving on to Capitol. We gotta stoys. This is 362 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: the key point. The Capitol riot was a frenzy of 363 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: content creation. Rioters recorded themselves, often maskless, sometimes declaring their 364 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: own names to the camera, proudly boasting of the crimes 365 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: they were actively committing. Patriots actually just storing the Capitol 366 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 1: building up. And they didn't just record their actions, they 367 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: also recorded what they were thinking. The people are piste off, 368 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 1: we're standing up for the truth. Keep sucking with us, 369 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: funking around and find out. Right after the riot, it 370 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: was clear what the general mood was. Content. People were hyped, 371 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: they were gloating. There was a lot of boasts of 372 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: you know, whose office did you get into, did you 373 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: take anything? A lot of people posting selfies to show 374 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: off where they had been. I think the mood was 375 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: was jubilant. I don't think people understood the gravity of 376 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: what had happened. It's kind of amusing that so many 377 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: rioters put themselves on a plate for federal prosecutors will 378 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: meet some of those rioters later in the series. But 379 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: what's clear from the digital breadcrumbs is that this riot 380 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: would not have happened without social media. That's where people 381 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: met and exchanged ideas. That's where plans were hatched and 382 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: logistics ironed out. Social media bosses will argue that when 383 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: you connect the entire world, it's possible the odd coup 384 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: might get planned on your platform. Plotters are gone a plot. 385 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: But if only, if only armed insurrection was all we 386 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: had to worry about. The deeper problem, arguably, is that 387 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: the very notion of reality in America is fractured beyond repair. 388 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: Broadly speaking, there was this kind of I cannot believe 389 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: this happened, you know, in the hours and days after 390 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: one six. Charlie Warzl is a technology reporter. He writes 391 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: a newsletter about the Internet called Galaxy Brain. Like me 392 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: and others who dwell in the swamp for a living, 393 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: January six wasn't the biggest shock for him. Anyone who's 394 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: even dipped their toes into the extremism researcher reporting waters 395 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: is like, no, this is this is why people have 396 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: been so concerned for so long, Like this seemed inevitable, 397 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: not some some wild outcome I'm curious what you find 398 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: particularly malign about the way that Facebook group's function or 399 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: at least the way they impact people. Yeah, so there's 400 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: this great conference that Facebook through. It was like a 401 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: summit in Chicago, Illinois. Mark Zuckerberg kicked it off. Before 402 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: we get started today, I want to introduce myself. This 403 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: is like one of those things you're not paying attention 404 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: to unless or like a tech writer, nerd or really 405 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: into it. Mark and I'm a member of the Zuckerberg 406 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: Family group. And it was all about how Facebook was 407 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: going to sort of shift it's focus into communities, right. 408 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: The idea behind our new mission is to bring the 409 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: world closer together. He was trying to model Facebook groups 410 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: and things like that around the way things work in 411 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: the physical world, which is you don't come in your 412 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: community and immediately say, all right, I need to find 413 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: a knitting group, I need to find you know, book club, 414 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: and need to find this and just sort of like 415 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: willy nilly cast around. The idea is like your ties 416 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: and networks are the ones that say, hey, I'm part 417 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: of this book club. You want to join something like that. 418 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: You may think you're just creating a space for new 419 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: moms or for bird watchers or for locksmiths. But when 420 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: you give people a way to connect and a sense 421 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: of support, it can lead to important changes. What it 422 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: ended doing was, you know, taking this sort of nuanced 423 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: cultural societal way that humans operate and just like mapping 424 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: it onto like a recommendation algorithm. And it was just 425 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: incredibly blunt. And so what Facebook began doing was basically 426 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: saying like, oh, I see you're doing this, Let's give 427 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: you more of that, Let's push you deeper into that. 428 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: Because of my own work investigating the far right, I 429 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: subscribe to hundreds of Telegram channels, gab accounts, parlor feeds, 430 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: all that good stuff. But the people on the platforms 431 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: I study are already far gone. Facebook groups, on the 432 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: other hand, that's where folks come to get radicalized. When 433 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: I was hanging out in right wing Facebook groups, it 434 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: became increasingly obvious that not only where the groups growing quickly, 435 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: but that as soon as you join one, you start 436 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: getting shared others. I get invited to a group where 437 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: people they're joking about Hawaiian shirts, and before I know it, 438 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: I'm in a new group where people are talking very 439 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: seriously about shooting federal re agents. For real, this stuff 440 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: is not hard to find. You accept a couple of recommendations, 441 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: you go where you're pointed by the algorithm, and hey, 442 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: you're hob nobbing with some of the scariest people in America, 443 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: and the admins who create these groups know exactly how 444 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: to speed you along the journey. Facebook release report after 445 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: one six and it showed that, like all the stuff, 446 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: the Steel groups were in large part driven by a 447 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: small core of superinviters that would basically find people via 448 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: different groups and build audiences based off of these common interests. 449 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: And so, I mean, I think that the groups has 450 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: so so much to do with it, because not only 451 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: are you talking about insular communities on their own that 452 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: are sort of away from people, where you know they 453 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: can kind of become more and more intense, but you're 454 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: also talking about a network of those groups that are 455 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: just constantly being thrown into your face. And I think 456 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: that it was really just a way of pushing people 457 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: further down that radicalization funnel. For their part, Facebook does 458 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: say that it's been more aggressive than ever at labeling 459 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: misleading posts, clamping down on conspiracy theories, and amplifying credible 460 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: information about voting It's not a new observation that social 461 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: media funnels our interests towards outrage and extreme opinions. But 462 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: what I think hasn't been appreciated is just how many 463 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: people went down this path after the election to stop 464 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: The Steel campaign fell like a guillotine, severing the connection 465 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: between millions of Trump supporters and the basic reality of 466 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: the election result, and social media was the perfect medium 467 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: for the message. Would it be fair to say that 468 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: social media rewards and even makes people famous for being 469 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: better at lying and distributing misinformation? Oh? Yeah, completely. You know, 470 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: these algorithms a reward high engagement subjects, many of which 471 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: provoke pretty strong emotions. The strongest emotions tend to be 472 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: outrage and feeling victimized, and you know in group out, 473 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: group exclusions, and so yeah. I mean, I think the 474 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: architecture of these platforms is geared towards attention first and 475 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: like civic responsibility a hundred and thirty five. And as 476 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: long as that's the case, the attention is gonna win 477 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: out every single time. There's no way anyone could tell 478 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: me the joke Biden one this election wrong. Is not 479 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: trying to overturn the election. He is trying to get 480 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: the real election results to be heard, the real election. 481 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: What do you think is the end result? We're in 482 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: this place now where at least in the low tens 483 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: of millions of Americans believe in what is functionally an 484 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: alternative reality, you know, not just may have a conspiracy 485 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: or two, not just like, oh maybe I'm curious about 486 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: the jfk assassination whatever, but believe in like a fully 487 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: separate reality. Do you think that bubble ever bursts or 488 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: do you think more and more people just become siloed 489 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: off to what is effectively another world. I don't get 490 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: the sense that this is a bubble that bursts, Like 491 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: I think that this is pretty durable for a lot 492 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: of people. I'm very worried. Like I think candidly, I'm 493 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: in a period right now where I'm trying to sort 494 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: of not think about it for just a couple of 495 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: weeks or months, because I just know it's getting worse. 496 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: But not on a very public level. I think post Trump, 497 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, everyone's sort of collectively said, Okay, can I 498 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: take a break, can I recharge my batteries? And personally 499 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: I'm doing that because I think what we're in for 500 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: is a lot more of the same with a higher intensity, 501 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: and soon we're not going to the luxury of not 502 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: paying attention to it fully, and that's pretty scary. There's 503 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: a term I didn't invent it, but it's come to 504 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: define what I think is the single largest problem we 505 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: face in our culture right now. That term is weaponized unreality. 506 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: Here's how it works. You're a person for whom the 507 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: observable facts of reality are problematic. Maybe you're an oil 508 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: and gas company. It's the nineteen seventies and you don't 509 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: want people to think climate change is a thing, so 510 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: you start paying pr people in shady media types to 511 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: help you build an unreality when we're the problems caused 512 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: by your product don't exist. Most of us are familiar 513 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: with how big businesses use unreality. The most prominent example 514 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: is probably the tobacco industry. Weaponized unreality takes that a 515 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: step further. If you're a demagogue politician who as an election, 516 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: you might blame the people who won legitimately for orchestrating 517 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: a vasked conspiracy to steal the election, and you might 518 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: dog whistle towards other conspiracies, ones that suggest your political 519 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: opponents are satanic pedophiles working to destroy the country. This 520 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: allows you to say face and keep breaking in donations. 521 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: But if you succeed in convincing millions of people that 522 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: they're under constant, deadly attack by real people who really exist, well, 523 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: they might try to murder those people. A Reuter's and 524 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: Ipsos poll from March found that of all Americans think 525 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: that the election was stolen from Donald Trump. The simple 526 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that tens of millions of 527 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: Americans live in realities so different that they cannot continue 528 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: to coexist. It's fine if your neighbor believes in Bigfoot, 529 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: but if he believes you're planning to steal the blood 530 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: of his children for black magic, you probably can't keep 531 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: living together. As long as social media companies decide that 532 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: the best way to engage people is to rile them up, 533 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: push them closer and closer to the edge, there will 534 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: be bad actors who decide to profit from just shoving 535 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: those folks right over it. In the next episode of 536 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: The Assault on America, we meet one of the most 537 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: nefarious actors in this entire story. He's a shady political 538 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: operative who made January sixth happen, and most people don't 539 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: have a clue who he is. It's time to meet 540 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: the man behind the lie. I've been plotting. I've been planning. 541 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: I've been scheming that's coming up in episode two of 542 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: the Assault on America.