1 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: People say to me all the time, Mac, it must 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: be incredible to have a seat on the front road 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: to the greatest show on Earth. It is, and tonight 4 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: y'all get to take my seat. Buckle up. Our first 5 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: guest in a three part series is Phil Chalmers. 6 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: Now, y'all, Phil is a criminal profiler. 7 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: Y'all know him from hosting the Dennis Quaid owned podcast 8 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: Where the Bodies Are Buried. His live trainings are legendary. 9 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: He's trained local law enforcement, probation. 10 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: The FBI. He's even doing one for me in Atlanta. 11 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: You've seen him on A and E's Killer Kids. You've 12 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: seen him on Fox's Prime Watch Daily. 13 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: Y'all have seen the list of. 14 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: Folks he has interviewed, from The Smiley Face, Killer, Charles Manson, 15 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: The Son of Sam, and The Games Will Ripper, just to. 16 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: Name a few. Tonight he's with us. Feel welcome to 17 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 2: Zone seven. 18 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: How are you doing? Thanks for having me U? 19 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 2: I am doing fantastic? Are you kidding? I got you? 20 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 2: And then two other special guests waiting in the wings. 21 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: Tonight is gonna be epic for me and I just 22 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: appreciate you. I appreciate your willingness to come on and 23 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, bring your expertise in a special guest with you. 24 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's so important what you have 25 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: to offer. And you and I have talked off air some, 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: but I do want to talk about serial killers, their causes, 27 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: some warning signs, and some triggers. I'm just gonna let 28 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: you take it away, and whenever you want me to 29 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: ask you another question, I will. 30 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: But I want people to hear from you. 31 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 3: Yeah. So I've been doing this for forty years, Cheryl, 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 3: I've been I've been at this since nineteen eighty five. 33 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: And my first faced face meeting was a was a 34 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 3: juvenile serial killer who sacrificed three people to the Devil 35 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 3: Sean Sellers. And then soon after that I met with 36 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 3: son of Sam David Berkowitz, talked to Charles Manson, and 37 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: it was kind of like things were set what I 38 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 3: was going to do with my career. And after about 39 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: twenty years of research, I started training law enforcement. A 40 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 3: I put out at book and I just I needed 41 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: a place to you know, present, and I started with 42 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 3: law enforcement, and I expanded to all different types of occupations, teachers, 43 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 3: probation officers, counselors, judges, you name it. The first twenty 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 3: years were really focused on juvenile killers and school shooters. 45 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 3: I wrote a couple of books about that, and then 46 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 3: now I'm kind of focused on serial murder, and so 47 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 3: I figured out why kids kill, and I came out 48 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 3: with all that and the causes, warning signs, triggers, and 49 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: now I'm really working hard on well, how to become 50 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: a serial killer. I'm just about to put the raps 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: on my first serial killer book with Wild Blue Press. 52 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: What I'm finding with serial killers a little different than 53 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 3: the juvenile killers is it has a lot to do 54 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: with their family, their you know, obviously their upbringing, but 55 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: it comes down a lot to their relationship with both 56 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 3: of their parents. You know, if they were wanted, if 57 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: they were loved, if they had bonding relationships with their parents. 58 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 3: A lot of these guys I'm seeing, even if they 59 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: came from what we would call a normal family, they 60 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 3: didn't have a bonding, loving relationship. You know, a lot 61 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: of the parents told them, you know, we should have 62 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: never had you. You know, ed Kemper was locked in 63 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: the basement at night because they they were afraid he's 64 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: gonna rape his sisters. I mean, some really weird upbringings 65 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: like that, and there's not a whole lot of warning 66 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: signs with serial killers. You got to be really good 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 3: at catching them because they don't have a lot of 68 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 3: warning signs. You know, they get arrested for raper child 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 3: molestation or peeping tome stuff like that along the way, 70 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: but they pretty much have to make a mistake. So 71 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 3: you know, in defense of law enforcement, it's very hard 72 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: to catch somebody who kills strangers, and it's able to 73 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 3: you know, target random victims. And especially if you're a 74 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 3: truck driver, you know, you're dumping bodies two states away, 75 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 3: you're dumping clothing two states away. The biggest thing I'm 76 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: dealing with this new book is the miss of serial Killers, 77 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 3: and I think that's going to be a bomb drop 78 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 3: on people. Is everybody thinks they know who serial killers 79 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: are because you know, we we watch the news and 80 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: we watch some of the movies and stuff. But yeah, 81 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: I've got twelve miss of serial killers that were coming 82 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 3: out with in this book, and there's a couple real 83 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 3: bangers that are going to shock people. 84 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: Okay, well twelve is a pretty big number. Let me 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: go back just a second and ask how you got 86 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: into the first interview, Like what made you contact them? 87 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: How did you contact them? How did the son of 88 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: Sam respond? How did Charles Manson respond? Like? 89 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: How did that happen? 90 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 3: I started this company in nineteen eighty five. I started 91 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 3: working with trouble kids, and I quickly found out within 92 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: the first five years of doing that is if I 93 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: was going to help these kids, I needed to find 94 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 3: out why they were committing these violent crimes. And I've 95 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 3: just always been thinking outside the box, even you know, 96 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 3: as a young person. And I said, well, I think 97 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: I have to go to prison and talk to the 98 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 3: killers to figure this out. And so there was this big, 99 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: big case in Oklahoma, this Sean Seller's kid. He was 100 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 3: a young white male. He killed his parents in a 101 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: circle k clerk at sixteen years old, and he was 102 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: on death row, which is back then you could get 103 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: the death penalty as a juvenile, and he was actually 104 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 3: executed for his crimes. So I heard about his case 105 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: and I was like, what the hell, I'll send him 106 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: a letter and you know, see if he responds. And 107 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 3: he did respond, and he allowed me to come in 108 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 3: actually not just meet with them, but we did a 109 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: really big camera interview and they made a movie out 110 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: of it called stuck in a nightmare. The crazy part 111 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: about it, and this was my first of many, and 112 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 3: I talk about this in my shows is he was 113 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 3: super nice, super humble, super soft spoken. And I tell people, 114 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: quite frankly, he was nicer than me. I was not 115 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 3: as nice as him. I have very troubled upbringing as well, 116 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 3: in the city of Cleveland, and you know, violent alcoholic 117 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 3: father and all this stuff. So I was like wow. 118 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 3: So that was my first eye opener. I just interviewed 119 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: a satanics. He was a Satanist and he was a 120 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: serial killer, and he was nicer than me. I was 121 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: like wow. And then when I was young, I think 122 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: the movie came out nineteen seventy something, the Helter Skelter 123 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: movie about Charles Manson was on TV. My brother and 124 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 3: I watched it with my mom and I slept on 125 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: my parents' bedroom floor for like four nights. And it 126 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 3: was weird that twenty years later I was actually, you know, 127 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 3: talking with Charles mans I couldn't believe that. And again, 128 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 3: he was a little bit more normal than you expected 129 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 3: him to be. I mean, he wasn't as crazy as 130 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 3: he appears on TV. Basically, he would send me nice cards, 131 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 3: he would send me Christmas cards. I still have some 132 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 3: of the Christmas cards he sent me with a swasti gun. 133 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: You would autograph him with a swastika. So it was 134 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: just weird that I was talking to that guy, the 135 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: guy that was the monster in my dreams as a 136 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 3: little boy. You know. Then I met with Suda Sam 137 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: and the same thing. When I left the Son of 138 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 3: Sam interview, I drove home and I said, this guy's 139 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: nicer than my dad. The whole thing is surreal for me, 140 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 3: you know, like it opened my eyes really quickly that 141 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: these killers are not what they seem to be, like, 142 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: they're way more normal than I thought. I expected to 143 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 3: walk in and see a monster sitting. 144 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 4: In the meeting room or the interview room or wherever 145 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 4: I was at, and I would look over and see 146 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 4: this old guy sitting there, or see this young guy 147 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 4: sitting there, and I would say, there's no way that's 148 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 4: the ripper, the wrangler, the stabber, the slayer, And sure 149 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 4: as hell it was right, always them. 150 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: And Son of Sam was very nice. He prayed for me, 151 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: He still prays for me. He emails me once a month. 152 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: He's still alive, been very kind to my wife and 153 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: I and he's very religious. 154 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: Now he and I have had some communication just over 155 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, writing letters, and he has been nothing but 156 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: polite and kind and like you said, you know, all 157 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: friend prayers and advice and different things on cases. 158 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 2: And if you just read. 159 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: The letters and did not know who they were from, 160 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: you would never ever think it was from anybody violent. 161 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: No, And people ask me, what's the one thing these 162 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 3: serial killers have in common? And I tell him, I said, 163 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: the one thing they have in common is they're all different. 164 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: And until you understand that, it's hard to understand serial 165 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: killers because they're all different. You can't put them in 166 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 3: the Damer Bundy Gacy box. You know, they're all different, 167 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: they all have different upbringing, they all they all act differently, 168 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 3: they all responded, they all killed differently, they killed for 169 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: different reasons. And a lot of people are stuck in 170 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: the early FBI profiler nineteen seventies research, and that research 171 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 3: is fifty years old. I mean, you know, we have 172 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 3: to update it. And that's that's really what I'm doing. 173 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: Is your upbringing? What got you into it? 174 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: Like you wanted answers for these kids, but did you 175 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: want answers for yourself? 176 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I was raised in a pretty dysfunctional home, poverty, 177 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 3: inner city Cleveland. Rob done the way to school, you know. 178 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 3: And when I got out of school, I went to 179 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 3: college for two years and I took accounting, and after 180 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 3: two years of accounting, I said this is not for me. 181 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 3: So I said, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna do what 182 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 3: I really am passionate about. I'm going to work with 183 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 3: troubled kids because I could relate to those kids, you know, 184 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 3: I know exactly how they were raised. I could relate 185 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: to them. And that's how I got started. And then 186 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: it became a mission to figure out why, you know, 187 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: why is this in the good news? I figured it out, 188 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 3: and I've talked to almost every school shooter and oh 189 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 3: my gosh, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of teen killers 190 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 3: and studied it for ten years. When I wrote my book, 191 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 3: Inside the Mind of a Teen Killer that's two thousand 192 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: and nine, and that's when I started trading law enforcement. 193 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: In that book. 194 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: I love the way you bring up bullying because I 195 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: don't think people expect it, and I don't think they 196 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: expect for you to talk about it the way that 197 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: you do. 198 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: Can you talk about that a little bit. 199 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, bullying is very dangerous and it's a 200 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 3: big part of these crimes. And I'm not sure what 201 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: you're referring to in the book, but you know, bullying 202 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 3: is the number one cause of school shootings even today, 203 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: and it's been the same for my whole forty year career. 204 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: And I'm always really encouraging schools to take it serious 205 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 3: and to have you know, serious consequences and eliminated at 206 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 3: the school because almost every school shooter I've talked to, 207 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 3: I would say or bullying, it's the causal factor of 208 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 3: those crimes. 209 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I want you to talk about, because 210 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people try to say that's not it. 211 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: They're just claiming that now. And I think you know 212 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: in your book you highlight it so well. I just 213 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: wanted you to mention that since yeah, you said it, 214 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: it just made me think, hey, we need to say that. 215 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, there's no question about it's the number 216 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 3: three cause of why kids kill. There's sixteen reasons why 217 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, thirteen reasons why kids kill in my book, 218 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 3: and bully's number three. So it's up there. It's the 219 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: number one cause of school shootings. It's still the top 220 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: three of why kids kill. When I see you doing 221 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 3: my live show, boy, have the Santana, California kid call in. 222 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 3: Charles Williams shot people at his San Diego school and 223 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 3: he was beaten, punched, They stole his money, They poured 224 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 3: salad dressing on his head. They sprayd him a lighter fluid, 225 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 3: set him on fire, tried to drown him in the 226 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 3: pool of the school. I mean a lot of people 227 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 3: are like, well, you know, it depends on what bully 228 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 3: is listening. I only use help pulls. I he was 229 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: where we know it's bullying. You know, we know what 230 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: bullying is, and we use those examples. And you know 231 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 3: a lot of kids say they're being bullied and maybe 232 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 3: they're not. But the ones I'm talking about were definitely 233 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: bullied and they eventually retaliated and what they do this 234 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: is kind of an interesting piece of the school shooter. 235 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: A lot of people ask the school shooter live in 236 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: my training, did you target your bullies? And they say 237 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 3: they usually say no, I was killing everybody. See everybody 238 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 3: wrong that kid at that school. The bullies did, the 239 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,359 Speaker 3: friends who laughed, the friends who didn't help, the classmates 240 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: who didn't help, the teachers who didn't help. Basically, everybody dies. 241 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 3: Everybody's guilty of this crime. That's why I tell teachers 242 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 3: when I do teacher training. Listen, man, when these guys 243 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 3: come to school, everybody's a target, you know. I mean, 244 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 3: everybody is potentially in danger. They don't go hunting for 245 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 3: their bullies, they just start killing people. And that's what 246 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: we see. 247 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: Now you said there were thirteen reasons, I have to ask, 248 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: what's the number one reason teens kill? 249 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: So number one reason why teens kill, and also number 250 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 3: one reason why serial killers kill it is the fatherlessness connection. 251 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 3: They have no father. That's the number one reason why 252 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 3: kids kill. No daddy, And there's a ton of studies 253 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: about that. No daddy can lead to a lot of things, prison, poverty, pregnancy, death, suicide, 254 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: a lot of things, but it does lead to to homicide. 255 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 3: And if you show me a juvenile killer, show me 256 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: a school shooter, pretty much they don't have a daddy. 257 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: And that's a big one. That's number one. Number two 258 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 3: would be the unstable, dysfunctional, abusive home, which most people 259 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 3: think that's number one, but that's number two. And then, 260 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 3: like I said, number three is bullying. So a lot 261 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 3: of it is what's done to those kids growing up. 262 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 4: They do. 263 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: Well. 264 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: You have spoken to so many of the serial killers 265 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: that people know, but you've also spent a lot of 266 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: time with serial killers people have never heard of. 267 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: And I think some of. 268 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: The information that you've gotten from both groups is unbelievable. 269 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 3: Most people think serial killers are white males in their 270 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 3: mid to l eight twenties. That would be your typical profile. 271 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 3: If you even asked your local law enforcement officers that 272 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: your department, that's going to be what they say. And 273 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: if they use that profile, they're going to arrest seven 274 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 3: percent of serial killers. And the reason is most serial 275 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 3: killers are not white, they're black. Sixty percent of serial 276 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 3: killers today are black. Only thirty percent are white. And 277 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 3: they're much older than we thought thirties, forties, even up 278 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: to fifties. So we're missing the point. If we're just 279 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: looking our suspects are just white males in their twenties 280 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 3: even thirties. That in mind. In my new book, I 281 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 3: have one thousand and thirty six black serial killers. Now 282 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: most people can't name one. These cases are as crazy 283 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: as their white counterparts, just that nobody knows who they are. 284 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 3: And I think we're going to have one of those 285 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 3: people called today. People just don't know him. And the 286 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 3: nicknames are crazy, the crimes are crazy, how they operate 287 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 3: is crazy. I mean, it's a shame that people don't 288 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 3: know these cases. And I think after this book comes out, 289 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 3: it's going to be a bomb drop because people are 290 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 3: going to have a whole new wave of serial killers 291 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 3: to study. Then what has there been about twenty Let's see, 292 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 3: in the United States, there's been about I think it's 293 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: thirty four hundred serial killers, so where about a thousand 294 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 3: are black. So you know, almost a third of serial 295 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: killers are black in history, but in the last ten 296 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 3: years it's sixty percent black. So it's a very high 297 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 3: population and that's the reason they get away with so 298 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 3: many murders. Like Sam Little America's deadly a serial killer, 299 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 3: killed ninety three people. He's a black male. 300 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, Wayne Williams in Atlanta. 301 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 3: Yeah was Atlanta. Berta Edward. I think he named Berta Edwards. 302 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: She killed thirteen in Atlanta. She's back in the day, 303 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 3: but she's the America's deadliest female serial color. She killed thirteen. 304 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 3: He's miss Miss Atlanta, Atlanta's Miss Bluebear Orberta Elders name sorry, 305 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 3: and America's youngest serial killer, Craig Price. Warwick Slasher killed 306 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 3: four victims by his fifteenth birthday, stabbed him fifteen times each. 307 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 3: So these are people that nobody knows you know, and 308 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 3: are not many people know. So it's gonna be a 309 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: it's gonna be a really nice I can't wait for 310 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: the book to come out. 311 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: Well, I know one person that you have dealt with 312 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: a lot. You will call in a little bit. 313 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: But one thing I was interested about is when you 314 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: started working with Presley he confessed. Did you find that 315 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: easier to gain information from him since he had already 316 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: told everybody he did it? 317 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I usually don't work with the guys 318 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: who claimed to be innocent. Once they say I'm innocent 319 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 3: in my crimes, I say goodbye because there's no reason 320 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: for me to work with them. Presley. I like Presley. 321 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 3: I like talking to Presley. Oh. Number one goal is 322 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 3: always to find cold cases and locate bodies. So that's 323 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 3: always what I'm digging for. So, okay, Aim and Presley, 324 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 3: have you killed anybody else? 325 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: You know? 326 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 3: Are there any bodies you haven't give it up? So 327 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 3: you know that's my first thing. That's always the first 328 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 3: thing I do. What's something you've never told anybody before? 329 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 3: Those are the questions I ask. And then once I 330 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 3: get past that, it's you know, tell me why you 331 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 3: did this, tell me how you got away with it? 332 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 3: What can law enforcement learn from this? Presley is very 333 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 3: well spoken. That's why I like him. He can explain 334 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,479 Speaker 3: Like a lot of guys can't explain why they did it, 335 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 3: he can explain his mentality, and it's it's it's unbelievable 336 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: actually to listen and plait it. So I have a 337 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 3: good relationship with him, and I have a really good 338 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 3: relationship with a lot of guys like him. And it's 339 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 3: like going to the zoo. I'm the I'm the lion 340 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 3: tamer and Presley's the lion. And you wouldn't go meet 341 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 3: with him on the streets of Atlanta. That would be 342 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 3: kind of dangerous. But he's in a cage now, and 343 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: I'm going to bring you into there and kind of 344 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 3: show you how. You know, how he operates and you 345 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 3: know how he responds to stuff, and that that's kind 346 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 3: of what it's like. We're going to open up, open 347 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 3: up the prison door and let him come out and talk, 348 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: and you know, give your listeners a little view into 349 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 3: the mind of a guy that walks around killing innocent 350 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 3: people in Atlanta for no reason. You know, luckily he 351 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 3: got caught. He would have killed a lot of people. 352 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: He made a great, big mistake, and he got caught 353 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 3: early on after I think just four murders, four or 354 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 3: five murders. 355 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 2: I agree with you. 356 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: I think he would have gone on a spree that 357 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: would have been catastrophic. 358 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he was on his way. Yeah, he was 359 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 3: what he was doing and there was no turning back. 360 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: He'll tell you that he was not going to stop this. 361 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: In fact, the reason you know that he never got 362 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: rid of the gun. And just to give you a 363 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 3: little preface on Aiman Presley, you can look him up. 364 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,239 Speaker 3: Just look up Presley, serial Killer Atlanta. He was an 365 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 3: actor and he was successful actor. He had acted in 366 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 3: some big commercials I think Church's Chicken, and he was 367 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 3: on a couple TV shows like Ti the Rapper. TI 368 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 3: had a TV show he was on there. He had 369 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 3: done some things and he hit hard times. He went 370 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 3: to la and acted, came back to Atlanta and then 371 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 3: basically he had hard times and he bought a gun 372 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: to start robbing people and for some reason. He explains 373 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: it that homicide took over him. Let me just lead 374 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 3: into another one of my miss Cheryl. People think serial 375 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 3: killers kill up close and personal. They think serial murder 376 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 3: is you know, if it's a serial killer, it's got 377 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 3: to be up close and personal, strangulations, stabbing, that's how 378 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 3: serial killers kill. That is so nineteen seventies overwhelming right now. 379 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 3: The number one way serial killers kill is shit shooting people, 380 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: which is what Presley did. And we've just arrested several 381 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 3: shooters in the last two years. DC snipers were not alone. 382 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: There were tons of people like them. So serial killers 383 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 3: shoot people. That throws off law enforcement because they think 384 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 3: it's gangs or drugs and they don't really work it 385 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 3: like a serial killer case. Right. Another thing is people 386 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 3: think since most serial killers are men, ninety three percent 387 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 3: of serial killers are men. There's been about two hundred 388 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 3: and twenty female serial kims in the United States, and 389 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 3: people think since serial killers are men, they're obviously killing women. 390 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 3: Well that's not really the case either, because a lot 391 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: of serial killers are not lust killers. They don't kill 392 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: for sexual reason, their anger retaliation. Presley is one of 393 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 3: those non lust killers. He never had sex with any 394 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 3: of his victims. When you're not a lust killer and 395 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 3: you're just out to kill people, men are just as 396 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 3: in danger as women. So basically, for the men out there, 397 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: you are just as in danger of being a victim 398 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 3: of a serial killer as a woman. And it's fifty 399 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 3: one percent of victims are female and forty nine percent 400 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: are men. You know, Gacy Coral Domer, you know these 401 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 3: guys bone it up in California. They kill men. 402 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: What is the number one thing you would tell people 403 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: when they are looking at a case, a detective, a 404 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: young detective especially, but when they're trying to connect cases 405 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: that seemingly have no connection, what do you tell them 406 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: to look for? 407 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you can sometimes tell by looking 408 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: at the crime scenes if it's a serial killer, a husband, 409 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 3: a robber, a burglar. There's different types of crime scenes. 410 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 3: So when you see my training Cheryl coming up here, 411 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 3: you'll see we'll show a lot of crime scenes and 412 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 3: you'll see, Wow, that's what a serial killer crime scene 413 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 3: looks like. That's what a husband, that's what a you know, 414 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 3: a random crime scene looks. So that's first thing. Serial 415 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 3: killers love to see page they love to do weird 416 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 3: shit to their victims and you'll be able to it 417 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 3: stands out. But one thing I try to tell my detectives, 418 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 3: FBI agents, whoever, is two things you need to know. 419 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 3: The signature, the serial killer signature. The calling card never changes. 420 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: So the one way you could connect the cases is 421 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 3: what is the serial killer signature? BTK always bound the 422 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,959 Speaker 3: victim's knees. I've never seen anybody do that. They buying hands, 423 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 3: they buying feet, They don't buy knees. Okay, Denis Raider 424 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 3: always used a clove hitch. Not every time, he every 425 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: time he drew, and every time he drew, tighten out. 426 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: So the signatures are the calling card and they connect 427 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 3: all the cases. The problem with law enforcement another one 428 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 3: of my miss is law enforcement believes the mo O 429 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: never changed, and that gets us in trouble because the 430 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 3: mo often changes. So if a young detective believes the 431 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 3: nineteen seventies research that the mo the modus operandi never changes, 432 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: they get thrown off. When they have three victims. Let's 433 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 3: say there's three white females killed in Atlanta. One is strangled, 434 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 3: one is bludgeoned, and one is stabbed. They're going to 435 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 3: have trouble connecting those three cases. And I would say, 436 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 3: wait a minute's three white females in the same vicinity 437 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 3: of Atlanta all killed and dumped, you know, in random 438 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 3: vacant lots. It's the same guy. He just changes mo. 439 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 3: And you have to learn that that they do change 440 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 3: your mom Things happen, things go south, or the victim 441 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 3: fights and puts up a fight. There's always a reason 442 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: why it doesn't go down like they wanted to. That's 443 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 3: what I tell my young detectives. 444 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you on hundred percent. 445 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, try to find the signature. Know that the MO changes. 446 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: Study the crime scene. Catching a serial killer is difficult. 447 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 3: And the one thing we'll see what serial killers is 448 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 3: towards the end of their crime spree, they do step 449 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 3: up and speed up their amount of murders. So they'll 450 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 3: kill someone, they'll kill another one in six months, they'll 451 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 3: kill another one in three months, they'll kill another one 452 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 3: in one month, and they'll kill one in two weeks. 453 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 3: And it's bang bang bang. And then they get careless 454 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 3: and you know, Bundy grabs a little girl off of 455 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 3: a playground and yeah, dahmer, lets a guy get loose 456 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 3: with a handcuff on and dumb ass BTK sends a 457 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 3: floppy dis to the police department. It's traced right to 458 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 3: his church. I mean they make mistakes. Sure Gacy grabs 459 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: a kid at his local pharmacy, I mean that's crazy. 460 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 3: So you know you have to wait until that happens. Sometimes, 461 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 3: you know, they're hard to catch unless you get some 462 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 3: sort of DNA hit or some sort of video footage 463 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 3: or something. You know. 464 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: Well, normally at the academy, if I'm teaching young detectives, 465 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: I will use Bundy as an example, because here you've 466 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: got a guy that is strangling with Penny hoose, he's 467 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: bludgeing in with logs and some of them he's beheading, 468 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: and you would never think that was the same guy. 469 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: And to your point, if you're only going by m O, 470 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: you'll never catch it. 471 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 3: I do a serial killer evening show now, it's called 472 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 3: serial Killer's Experience at Wineries, Breweries, country Clubs, and we 473 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 3: talk about some kind of cool stuff in that show, 474 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 3: and we talk about why do serial killers cannibalize, why 475 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 3: do they necrophilia? You know, why do they dismember and behead? 476 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 3: Bundy was one of the ones that would take the 477 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 3: head home as a trophy, which is really horrific, and 478 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 3: he would take it home to have sex with it, 479 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 3: which is And I say to people, can you imagine, 480 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 3: I mean, imagine how twisted you are they have sex 481 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 3: with the dead woman's head. I mean, that's it doesn't 482 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 3: get much crazier than that, you know, but that's the 483 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 3: things these guys do. And it really makes no sense 484 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 3: some of it. But a lot of them are in 485 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 3: a necrophilia. Bundy was in a necrophilia. A lot of 486 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 3: them have sex with their victims after they're dead. And 487 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 3: they always tell me they do that because the victim 488 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 3: doesn't scream, the victim doesn't fight, They can take their time, 489 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 3: they could do what they want to do. It's less 490 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 3: stressful for them. And I try to keep a straight 491 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: face when they're telling me these things, like oh, okay, yeah, 492 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 3: makes sense, it makes sense, and as I'm secretly interiorly 493 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: horrified about what I'm hearing. 494 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: But you know how important is that? It's it's invaluable 495 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: to law enforcement. 496 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 3: I always ask law enforcement questions to see what they know. 497 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 3: And I know it's important when I'm doing because a 498 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 3: lot of people don't know this and and I don't 499 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 3: expect them to know it because it's pretty specific information. 500 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 3: But I'm glad to be speaking at all the chiefs 501 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 3: and sheriffs conferences around the country and you know, doing this, 502 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 3: and it's been it's been really nice. It's been really cool. 503 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: Well, they need to hear it and listen. 504 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: I just want to tell you how much I appreciate 505 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: you joining us, your straightforward information, giving us a little 506 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: bit of your new look on the myths. I think 507 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: people's jaws are gonna draw, there's no doubt about it. 508 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: But I just want to personally tell you I appreciate it. 509 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on Zone seven, being a part 510 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: of my Zone seven, and Honey, I. 511 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: Cannot wait until you hit the stage at my department. 512 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 3: I can't wait for that. It's gonna be fun looking 513 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 3: forward to that. 514 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: How do you have a traffic listen, There's not much 515 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: we can do about that, but you know, maybe we 516 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: can get somebody to pick you up with a blue light. 517 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 2: That'll help a little bit. 518 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: But I do want to tell you I appreciate it, 519 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: and I just want to end this segment like I 520 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: always do, with a quote, and that is the mo 521 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: changes Phil charmers, thank you so much.