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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and eleven.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be talking with Jeane Chatsky. We're very

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Speaker 1: excited about this today. She is the author of Women

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Speaker 1: with Money, The judgment free guide to creating the joyful,

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Speaker 1: less stressed, purposeful, and yes, rich life you deserve. She's

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Speaker 1: also the author of several other books, including Money Rules,

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Speaker 1: Pay It Down. She hosts a wonderful podcast called Her Money.

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Speaker 1: So we hope you'll be checking that out. I think

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Speaker 1: you're really going to like the advice. This is not

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Speaker 1: about you know, saving five cents on serial. This is

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Speaker 1: about taking your money seriously. As a professional woman who

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Speaker 1: has big goals in life, Sarah, You've been thinking more

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Speaker 1: about your financial goals of late, right, Yes, and it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I do comment later in the episode that I am

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Speaker 1: obsessed with the fire movement, but I don't want anyone

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Speaker 1: to get the wrong idea we are. We're not fire people.

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Speaker 1: I just think financial independence retire early. Yes, I just

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Speaker 1: think the ideas are really intriguing. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: just sort of I'm thirty nine years old and I've

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Speaker 1: been in the I've had a real job for only

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Speaker 1: six years, so that's you know, As I'm listening to

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Speaker 1: our guest, I'm realizing, like positions do have kind of

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Speaker 1: a different experience, because it's not like I had this

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Speaker 1: big margin to save since I was a college graduate

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Speaker 1: at age twenty two. Like it's a much different scenario.

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Speaker 1: But I still feel like had I read some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff earlier, I might have made some different choices

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Speaker 1: maybe six years ago. Well, like what though, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure what are the different No, we're still trying

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Speaker 1: to sell our house. I'm not sure we would have

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Speaker 1: purchased that house. I love that house, and you know what,

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Speaker 1: maybe by the time this airs it will have sold.

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Speaker 1: But we chose a neighborhood that's beautiful, but we were

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Speaker 1: probably one of the more poor members of that community,

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Speaker 1: which then, you know, leads you to certain choices. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I guess you're right. There's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of things I don't regret, vacations we've taken. I maybe, well, no,

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Speaker 1: it's hard, it's not necessarily U stuff that I would

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Speaker 1: put on the podcast interesting, But yeah, I just I

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Speaker 1: just sort of wish I had come into some of

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Speaker 1: that before. So if you are early in your career,

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Speaker 1: you might want to check out some of these resources,

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Speaker 1: not to necessarily become a fire person, but just to

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Speaker 1: kind of get the ideas percolating and think more about

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Speaker 1: longer term investments and longer term planning and that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, I mean, so I did not go

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Speaker 1: to about school into a residency. So I've been working

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Speaker 1: since I was twenty two or so, and of course

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Speaker 1: earning less then than I am now. But I was

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Speaker 1: always into saving, especially as somebody who worked for herself,

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Speaker 1: it was very important to me to build up assets

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Speaker 1: so that I had a lot more control over the situation.

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Speaker 1: Which is sort of an interesting thing because a lot

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Speaker 1: of jobs aren't secure either. Yeah, people have a different

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Speaker 1: mindset if they know they'll get a paycheck every two

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Speaker 1: weeks or every month, and you don't have that luxury

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Speaker 1: necessarily as a freelancer, and so I made sure to

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Speaker 1: have money put away. I was probably doing something that

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Speaker 1: our guest talks about later of like not investing it

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Speaker 1: for certain chunks of time. But the good news here

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Speaker 1: is that I met my husband quite young, and he's

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Speaker 1: very good about investing and sort of not going for

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Speaker 1: crazy stuff, but the long term safe investments to you know,

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Speaker 1: optimize kind of the responsible growth. And so he was

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Speaker 1: able to share that with me, and so by about

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Speaker 1: you know, age twenty five, I was definitely investing and

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Speaker 1: that's been helpful, and now now I'm getting more creative

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Speaker 1: with its. Talk a little bit about in another episode

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Speaker 1: that I've been getting into angel investing, which has been fun.

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Speaker 1: You know that that's when money starts becoming a source

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Speaker 1: of excitement as you get involved in companies in early stages.

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Speaker 1: But certainly, you know, goals like making sure you're on

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Speaker 1: track for retirement and all that should should come first.

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Speaker 1: The one thing I have to say, because we've gone

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Speaker 1: back and forth and the fire movement and the retire

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Speaker 1: early sort of stuff. I there's there's sort of a

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Speaker 1: negative aspect about work and some of this literature, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you agree pick that up? Agree? Oh? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: And there's this weird So there's this sort of physician

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Speaker 1: fire movement, which is very interesting, and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of that speaks to the fact that a lot

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Speaker 1: of there is a high degree of burnout in a

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Speaker 1: lot of professions related to just access loads and documentation

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Speaker 1: and less autonomy and all this kind of stuff. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, there's a negativity, I think the way

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Speaker 1: I see it, and I have noticed that many people

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Speaker 1: who are quote FI are continuing to work or they're

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Speaker 1: doing a side project. But it's about not being reliant

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Speaker 1: on a sort of corporate paycheck, not being tied to

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Speaker 1: a specific earning level or specific thing. And I mean

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a sad testament to the way some

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Speaker 1: industries have evolved. And I think that hopefully it will

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Speaker 1: you know, if people do leave, that's going to change

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Speaker 1: the market a little bit, right, I mean, maybe hospitals

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Speaker 1: will put more energy into making people not want to

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Speaker 1: make those choices. If more people do, I think it's

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Speaker 1: a reality, though, I mean, I don't think we can

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Speaker 1: deny it. Some people are and some companies don't treat

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Speaker 1: their employees well, or you just feel like you don't

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Speaker 1: have enough autonomy your day to day life, and that

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Speaker 1: can be hard. And I'm not speaking as I mean.

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Speaker 1: I really love my job. I feel lucky to have

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Speaker 1: been able to craft it in the way that has

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Speaker 1: worked for me, and I work at a wonderful place.

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Speaker 1: But I hear stories of other people where it's not

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Speaker 1: like that, and then I can see why you would

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Speaker 1: want to be able to say, well, I'm here now,

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Speaker 1: but I know that my end date is in three years,

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Speaker 1: and at that point I can stay if I want

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Speaker 1: or leave if I want. Yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: the thing that I always am bumping up against, and

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Speaker 1: you and I are both in marriages where our husbands

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Speaker 1: are in jobs where this sort of expectation for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people in those jobs is that their spouse

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Speaker 1: would not be working for pay, or would be doing

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Speaker 1: so on a very very limited basis, like it's optional

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Speaker 1: or it's very optional. And that's lovely in the sense

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Speaker 1: of they have good, secure jobs that earn decent money.

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Speaker 1: But because of that, I mean I feel like I

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Speaker 1: have received a lot of messaging over the years of like,

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Speaker 1: why on earth are you doing this? Right? Like why

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Speaker 1: are you bothering to work? To you know, don't you

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Speaker 1: feel so guilty that you're not with your kids one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent at the time when you don't have to.

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Speaker 1: And I of course really hate that messaging because I

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, yeah, I have great things to

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Speaker 1: offer my kids and have great things to offer the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world as well, and I want to

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Speaker 1: do both of those things, hence the whole best of

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Speaker 1: both worlds. And so you know, I whenever there's this

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Speaker 1: whole negative messaging about work, I think I have a

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Speaker 1: really bad reaction to it. So, you know, sure I

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Speaker 1: don't have to work. I love working and have thrilled

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Speaker 1: to continue to do so. And so that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the message we're trying to give to our children. I

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Speaker 1: actually be both my husband and I will say, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not about that we have to go to work.

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Speaker 1: It's that we both have things we feel like we

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Speaker 1: can do for the world that we would like to do,

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Speaker 1: and we're also spending a lot of time with family

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Speaker 1: as well, so there isn't a conflict here that we

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Speaker 1: need to justify. So I guess I'm into the whole

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Speaker 1: financial independence in the sense of, yes, I think it's

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Speaker 1: great to build up wealth, and I've made a point

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Speaker 1: of doing so. On the other hand, I don't think

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Speaker 1: that getting out of working is necessarily the a great

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Speaker 1: end goal. A great end goal, it's to be spending

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Speaker 1: your time on meaningful things, and many of those meaningful

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Speaker 1: things can be financially renumertive, right, and that's that's awesome too. No,

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Speaker 1: and I think those are all I think that that

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Speaker 1: those are very fair points, and I too bristle whenever

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Speaker 1: I ever get the implication, although I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: feel like I do. Maybe maybe medicine is just not

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Speaker 1: as you know, but because you have a you have

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Speaker 1: a real job, Sarah, I think that's currently like nobody's

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Speaker 1: gonna know. I see what you're saying. Yeah, yes, No,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's obvious what you are, you know, the

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Speaker 1: contribution you're making the world, that you have a useful

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Speaker 1: skill that you're doing, and so so I think there's

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Speaker 1: some less of that, although there probably still is, Like

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Speaker 1: why are you bothering your husband's a doctor, you know,

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Speaker 1: are you supposed to not work because your husband's a doctor,

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Speaker 1: and maybe there's something to be said for like there's not.

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Speaker 1: There is certainly a salary differential between the two of us,

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Speaker 1: but it's not like a ten x differential or something

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Speaker 1: like that. I think that might raise people's eyebrows a

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Speaker 1: little bit more, but should it. I mean, if I

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Speaker 1: was a teacher and love my job and was like

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Speaker 1: kicking butt in the classroom and enjoying it and finding growth,

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Speaker 1: and you know, maybe doing a fun podcast on the side,

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Speaker 1: like I would hope that I would be encouraged to

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Speaker 1: keep doing that as well as well. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 1: we come at this from the perspective that work can

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Speaker 1: be a really awesome thing too, But you know, wealth

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Speaker 1: is awesome too, and these two things are not at

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Speaker 1: odds and fact lead to each other because as you work,

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Speaker 1: you can build up more assets, which you know gives

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Speaker 1: you wonderful options in life. One of the options maybe

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Speaker 1: not to work, but there's also other options, such as

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Speaker 1: doing great travel, having more investment goals, you know, such

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Speaker 1: as funding your kids' educations if you want to do

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Speaker 1: the kid's education, excellent philanthropy. I So all good stuff,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well, let's bring this over to Gene Chatsky

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Speaker 1: and this is going to be a great interview. So

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Speaker 1: excited to bring this to you guys. Well, Sarah and

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Speaker 1: I are very excited to bring in Gene Chatsky to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I first learned about Gene a great many

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Speaker 1: years ago when she was one of the experts on

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Speaker 1: the Oprah Debt Diet segment. There was a whole series

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Speaker 1: where they did financial makeovers for a handful of families

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Speaker 1: who were in debt and trying to get out of it.

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Speaker 1: Jeane did a wonderful makeover of a family, although there

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Speaker 1: were some rough parts. I think my favorite part of

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Speaker 1: the whole thing was when she was arguing with her

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Speaker 1: that particular lady about getting her hair done in the

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Speaker 1: beauty parlor. That was really some excellent TV, which is

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Speaker 1: stuck with many me all these years. But anyway, Gene,

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Speaker 1: we are so happy to have you here. Could you

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Speaker 1: quickly introduce yourself for our guests. Sure, I'm Gene Chatsky.

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Speaker 1: I think most of your listeners will probably know me

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Speaker 1: either from that series on op or from the Today Show,

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Speaker 1: where I've been their financial editor for many years. On

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Speaker 1: that podcast. As we have some avid podcast listeners. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a podcast of my own. Laura has been a guest.

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Speaker 1: It's called Her Money and it's a weekly conversation on

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Speaker 1: all things life and money for women of all ages. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's wonderful. And Jane, you know, really tries to very

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Speaker 1: successfully tries to make financial information accessible to people and

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Speaker 1: to explain it in a way that we can all understand.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things she talks about in particularly

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Speaker 1: on her website, she has five things that people need

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Speaker 1: to do to manage their money successfully. In the first,

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Speaker 1: no surprise, is to earn a decent living. Can you

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Speaker 1: talk about this why this is particularly important for women

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind as something to do to be

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Speaker 1: successful with money. Absolutely, I think granted, there are women

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Speaker 1: in the workforce and out of the workforce at all

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Speaker 1: home taking care of kids and families, but the household

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Speaker 1: needs to have a decent income. And when I say decent,

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Speaker 1: that's a really intentionally chosen word. It's not necessarily important

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Speaker 1: to have a lavish income. There's a lot of research

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Speaker 1: on money and happiness, and what we know is that

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Speaker 1: once you have, once you have enough to live comfortably,

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Speaker 1: more money doesn't really buy you more happiness. And comfortably

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Speaker 1: is you can pay your rent or your mortgage, you

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Speaker 1: can drive a safe car back and forth to work,

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Speaker 1: you can go out to dinner, you can take a

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Speaker 1: vacation once in a while. Beyond that, more money is

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Speaker 1: not always additive to people's happiness. So that's just something

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind. And yeah, as you were saying,

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Speaker 1: these five things are up on her money website for

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Speaker 1: people who are looking to refer back to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the book of our list listeners are in sort

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Speaker 1: of professional jobs. But what we found is interesting. Many

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Speaker 1: have this narrative going through the back of their brains

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Speaker 1: somewhere that their paid work is possibly a detriment to

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Speaker 1: their family. Right. That men kind of grow up with

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Speaker 1: this narrative that, well, my job is a main way

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Speaker 1: I contribute to my family, Right, this is what I

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Speaker 1: am expected to do. And I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: women still have this sense that, you know, the job

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Speaker 1: with the decent income is more optional. I mean, are

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Speaker 1: there ways to kind of counter this money narrative that

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Speaker 1: many women grow up with. Yeah, I really think it's

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Speaker 1: changing over time. I think as we have more and

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Speaker 1: more women who are the primary breadwinners for their families

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Speaker 1: and that number is boy, it's growing every single year.

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Speaker 1: I think it's about forty percent of women are now

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Speaker 1: the primary breadwinner and their families. And if you add

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Speaker 1: to those the number of women who are are the

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Speaker 1: only wage earner who are running single parent households, you

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Speaker 1: get to well into the sixty percent range. It's just

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Speaker 1: a fact of life that most families these days need

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Speaker 1: two incomes. And what I've found, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: been a really positive development, is that for many women,

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Speaker 1: once we are earning money, we feel better able to

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Speaker 1: say this is mine to manage. And that's a really

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Speaker 1: important thing to do, just because so many of us

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Speaker 1: will be alone at some point and forced to manage

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Speaker 1: our money by ourselves, and it's really nice to know

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Speaker 1: how to do that before you're under tremendous pressure and

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Speaker 1: tremendous strain. We notice sometimes that there's a temptation to

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Speaker 1: subtract childcare costs out of the female earner's salary and

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Speaker 1: sort of do this calculation, Well, my nanny is this

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Speaker 1: much money, and I only earn this much, And you know,

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Speaker 1: on our podcast we make an effort to remember that

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Speaker 1: that really comes out of the entire family budget. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And not only does it come out of the entire

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Speaker 1: family budget, but the one thing that gets missed in

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Speaker 1: that calculation is the value of those years spent in

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Speaker 1: the workforce. So we when we see parents, men or women,

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Speaker 1: when we see people taking a step back from the

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Speaker 1: workforce to stay home and care for kids, often when

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Speaker 1: or older parents, which is happening more and more and

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Speaker 1: more often, when they get back into the workforce, they

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Speaker 1: find they're not able to re enter at the same

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Speaker 1: level of salary and the same level of seniority where

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Speaker 1: they left. And for that reason, you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: doing that calculus where you're saying, well, I'm not earning

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Speaker 1: so much more than the cost of a caregiver, so

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Speaker 1: why even bother staying in the workforce. Or it's costing

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Speaker 1: me as much as I'm earning to care for my

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Speaker 1: older parents, so why should I not stop and do

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Speaker 1: it myself. The answer is that when you give up

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Speaker 1: those years of experience, that's a loss that you can't

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Speaker 1: get back. It's a long game. Hey, listeners, every parent

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Speaker 1: wants their child to get better grades and higher test scores,

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00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 1: Com slash best of. What are some good money goals

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Speaker 1: for the women who are probably listening to this podcast?

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Speaker 1: From what we found, the bulk of our listeners are

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Speaker 1: probably between about thirty and fifty years old, so kind

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Speaker 1: of in those peak earning years, not at retirement yet.

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Speaker 1: Probably most you know kids may be approaching college, but

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Speaker 1: maybe not quite there yet. What are the goals that

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Speaker 1: we should have who are in this demographic and feel

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Speaker 1: free to use numbers? I feel like people shy away

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Speaker 1: from numbers. You know, I'm happy to go to numbers,

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Speaker 1: but let me before I get to numbers, sort of

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Speaker 1: get to the most important things to pay attention to. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I was writing my last book, which is called

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Speaker 1: Women with Money, and it is really aimed exactly at

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Speaker 1: your listenership. It's for women who are past the point

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Speaker 1: of struggling, who are really you know, we have money,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out how to use it to

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Speaker 1: create the lives that we want. I asked hundreds of

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Speaker 1: women the question what do you want from your money?

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Speaker 1: Because we should be thinking about this in a conscious

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Speaker 1: way rather than just going through life and spending and

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Speaker 1: letting it happen to us. And what I heard off

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Speaker 1: the top almost every single time was I want safety,

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Speaker 1: I want security, I want stability. I want savings as

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Speaker 1: in cash in the bank. And the problem with this

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Speaker 1: is that that need and I don't think it's a want,

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Speaker 1: I really do think it's a need for safety and

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Speaker 1: security actually gets in the way of financial stability. And

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Speaker 1: we can see this in research. Women tend to keep

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Speaker 1: a greater percentage of our money in cash than men do.

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Speaker 1: Fidelity did a study where they found that above and

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Speaker 1: beyond emergency cushions, women were keeping twenty thousand dollars or

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Speaker 1: more just in cash in the bank. And when you

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Speaker 1: look at how much money we're earning on that cash

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Speaker 1: right now, you know, on average, right one tenth of

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Speaker 1: one percent. Basically nothing. It's nothing, Yeah, it's nothing. And

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Speaker 1: so one money goal is to start getting more involved

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Speaker 1: with and paying attention to your investments, start getting more

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Speaker 1: comfortable with your investments. It's not an area that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people identify with that a lot of women

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Speaker 1: identify with. Often when I when I go and I

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Speaker 1: am giving a talk to a large group of women,

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Speaker 1: I'll ask for a show of hands, how many of

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Speaker 1: you are investors? And I'll see maybe a quarter to

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Speaker 1: a third of the hands go up, and they all

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Speaker 1: go up very tentatively. And then I'll ask, and how

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Speaker 1: many of you have four oh one ks? And every

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Speaker 1: hand shoots up. And that's the disconnect. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you have a four to oh one K, you have

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Speaker 1: an IRA, you have a retirement account that you're actively

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Speaker 1: contributing to. You are an investor. You just don't feel

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Speaker 1: like one, because in our minds, investors look like Jim Kramer.

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Speaker 1: They're they're right, they're screaming at the television set too. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, they're there. But those are traders, and it's

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Speaker 1: a very different thing. You don't have to be a

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Speaker 1: trader to be a successful investor. In fact, one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons that women statistically are better investors than men

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Speaker 1: is because we don't trade, because we're not meddling every

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Speaker 1: single day. We're actually buying things, letting the markets do

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Speaker 1: their work. And and and yeah, yeah, which is good, which

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Speaker 1: is really really good, by the way, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: good to be boring. Yeah, soose the passwords for your

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00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: account for a while. I let it go. Let it go,

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Speaker 1: So I would say, you know, pay a little more

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Speaker 1: attention to your investments. You asked for metrics, so I'll

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Speaker 1: give you the metrics that I actually use. Although I've

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Speaker 1: gotten flamed on Twitter occasionally for putting these out there.

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Speaker 1: But when we are thinking about how we're charting for retirement,

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Speaker 1: which is the biggest goal that most of us have.

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Speaker 1: By age thirty, you want to aim to have one

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Speaker 1: times your annual income put away for your own retirement,

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Speaker 1: by forty three times, by fifty six times, by sixty

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Speaker 1: eight times, and by the time you actually retire ten times. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you have a traditional pension, and about I don't know,

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent of people in this country still have a pension,

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Speaker 1: you can take those numbers down by the amount that

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Speaker 1: the pension will cover. But yeah, no, those are Those

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Speaker 1: are some some goals that we should work on hitting.

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Speaker 1: And if you're saving about fifteen percent of whatever it

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Speaker 1: is you're earning every year, and that can include matching

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Speaker 1: dollars from an employer, you'll get there. Yeah. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: why you think you got flamed for that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what were people? People were? I mean it was the

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Speaker 1: first time I put them out there. The Washington Post

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Speaker 1: wrote about it. I got so many comments. People thought

430
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: they were ridiculous, you know, because it was too high

431
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: or too high? Can you say that many times your income,

432
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: so not that many times your expenses because those are

433
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: two different numbers. Okay, so when you're talking expenses, yeah,

434
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: two different numbers. And you can use expenses to calculate

435
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: and benchmark as well. The I don't know if you

436
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: guys have done a show on the Fire movement, but

437
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. Yeah. So the Fire movement stands for financial independence,

438
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: retire early, and people who are in the Fire movement

439
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: actually do calculate based on expenses, and their math says

440
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: as when once you have accumulated twenty five times your

441
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: annual expenses, then you are financially free and you don't

442
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: have to work in the job that you don't want

443
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: to work in anymore. A lot of people, you know, interestingly,

444
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: a lot of fire proponents still work. They just don't

445
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: work in the day, don't have to work exactly. And

446
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: twenty five is because people are working that on a

447
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: pulling four percent out of your assets exactly annually, and

448
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: that's sort of what people assume you could replace in

449
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: terms of annual growth then or that so you won't

450
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: run out of money exactly. Yeah, and that four percent

451
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: is a decent benchmarket. It works. Sometimes you have to

452
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: be willing to let it be a sliding four percent.

453
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: You can't if the markets are down and your portfolio

454
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: is down. You have to pull four percent of a

455
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: smaller bucket. But I guess I am surprised that your

456
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: calculations are based on income and not how you're actually living,

457
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: because I would think that part of the equations very important.

458
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm speaking as someone who's a physician, and

459
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: like my newest thing is like I'm like, I want

460
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: to live more like a resident, you know what I mean,

461
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: because then you can retire a lot sooner. I think

462
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: I think they're I think they're both really important. Income

463
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: is the number that a lot of the more people

464
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: have a handle on, especially at looking out into the future,

465
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: that makes it. I mean, Gene, honestly, I would have

466
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: I'm not a flamer, but I would have flamed these

467
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: numbers as being low. So yeah, there you go. So

468
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: we're we're all, uh, we all have different perspectives on this.

469
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: So so you guys all heard those numbers from Gene.

470
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: You know, one one time salary at thirty, you know,

471
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: three time salary at forty. That's probably pretty reasonable for

472
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: most people to aim for. If you said, you know,

473
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: fifteen percent that you're you're saving roughly. But of course

474
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: the key is you can't just put the fifteen percent

475
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: in a piggybanker a zero interest bearing, say or point

476
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: one percent bearing savings account. You need to make it grow.

477
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: What do you like when you see somebody who's good

478
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: at investing like you? What is what is she doing?

479
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: What what is that mean to you? It is not

480
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: rocket science. It means that she is contributing regularly to

481
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: a accounts for various goals. Right, could be college, could

482
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: be retirement, could be other things. She has selected portfolio

483
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: of investments, you know, which can be as simple as

484
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: one target date fund that's set up to set up

485
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: on a glide path to mature about the time that

486
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: she wants to retire, and she's watching what she's doing.

487
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it, right. He's thought about having a

488
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: million complex schemes going on at once now, which I

489
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: feel like there's pressure towards that. Yeah, no, not at all.

490
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: And I think if you've got if you haven't done

491
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: any of this sort of planning, and you're thinking, well,

492
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: I know I'm making money, but I don't know if

493
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm putting it away in the right places and the

494
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: right accounts. I don't know what I should be doing

495
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: with my next dollar. Sometimes sometimes that's the question that

496
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: I get asked sitting down with a financial advisor and

497
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: making a plan, just saying these are my goals. In

498
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: other words, this is what I think I want five

499
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: years from now, ten years from now, twenty years from

500
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: now in my life. The planning process, people think it's

501
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: all about the numbers, and it has to start with

502
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: the numbers. It doesn't start with the numbers at all.

503
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: It starts with this is how I want to live.

504
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: This is my vision for how I want to live.

505
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: And then you back on it on finding a financial

506
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: advisor and the difference between fee for service and those

507
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: that take a cut of profits. There's so many different

508
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: ways that advisors get paid these days. So when you're

509
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: looking for my preference is for a holistic financial advisor,

510
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: somebody who will not just look at your investments, but

511
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: who will look at your taxes and your real estate

512
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: and your estate goals and just look at your whole

513
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: life and say this is these are the steps that

514
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: you need to take to get this overall life into shape.

515
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: You can find financial advisors like this in a number

516
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: of ways. I like to start by just asking for recommendations.

517
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes if you know people, particularly if you have colleagues

518
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: who are in similar lines of work, they can be

519
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: a good source of advisors because that advisor will already

520
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: be familiar with your company's retirement plan, and that sometimes

521
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: takes a little getting up to speed on and that

522
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: can be helpful. But there tend to be financial advisors

523
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: who specialize in working with physicians, or who specialize in

524
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: working with lawyers, or and you're right, they get paid

525
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways these days. There are

526
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: advisors who will charge you a fee by the hour.

527
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: There's some who will charge you a fee for the plan.

528
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: There's some who charge a monthly fee. These days, there's

529
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: a whole network for millennials called gen Xy Planning, and

530
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: they generally charge a monthly fee. There are a lot

531
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: of wealth managers quote unquote who charge a percentage of

532
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: assets under management, generally around one percent, although it tends

533
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: to be a sliding scale and it goes down as

534
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: you have more assets with that manager. And then there's

535
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: still some people who work under the old brokerage commission

536
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: model where they earn money for selling you particular investments.

537
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: And the easiest thing to try to do is to

538
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: get a grip on what this relationship is going to

539
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: cost you in dollar terms over the course of the year,

540
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: so that you can compare apples to apples. There are

541
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: a lot of experts who say you should only have

542
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: a fee only advisor. I don't really go for that

543
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: because I don't think I don't think they are enough

544
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: that you know, if you want one in your area,

545
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: you should. You should figure out who's the best advisor overall,

546
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: and then figure out are they being paid fairly and

547
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: what else beyond checking beyond checking references, beyond doing a

548
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: check with FINRA's broker check tool, which will give you

549
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 1: a bit of a background check. You want to know

550
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: are they a fiduciary, which means are they acting with

551
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: your best interest in mind at all times? That's a

552
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: very very important question, and you want to know how

553
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: you feel having a conversation with them. My litmus test

554
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: when I first talked to a planner is to pay

555
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: very careful attention to who's talking and who's listening, because

556
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: if they are doing all the talking, then there's no

557
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: way for them to know who you are or what

558
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: you want from your life, and that's not a good

559
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: way to That's not a good way for them to

560
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: service your needs. Yeah, and I'd also add that investing

561
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: has gotten a lot more user friendly in the past

562
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: few decades. I mean certainly the rise of index funds.

563
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: I mean that you were mentioning you could just have

564
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: a target fund as well, or index funds are very easy,

565
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: very low cost, so then you don't have to think about, oh,

566
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: what's the hot stock, which you shouldn't be thinking about anyway.

567
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: So it's you know, in all of the discount brokerages,

568
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: you know the fidelities, the vanguards of the world. We'll,

569
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, sell you index funds for a very low

570
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: amount and you can check in on it every year

571
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: or two and you're on autopilot, but you're growing instead

572
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: of losing money to inflation. So yeah, that's been a

573
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: really cool development. I wonder if pivot to your advice

574
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: for talking with our kids about money, because people listening

575
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: to this podcast tend to have children still at home,

576
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: and many of us would like to have them be

577
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: good stewards of money as well. So you know, what

578
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: are the things we should be teaching and what are

579
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: some practical things we can do with that. I just

580
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: finished working on a piece about talking to your kids

581
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: about paying for college, so maybe that's reverse order, but

582
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: let's start there. Parents, I think need to be a

583
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: lot more upfront, especially if your kids are going to

584
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: be expected to borrow for college, about who's paying for college,

585
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 1: how much is there for college. What we're starting to

586
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: hear from kids who are coming out is that they

587
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: really wish they had understood a lot more about their

588
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: student loans ahead of time, that they would have made

589
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: different choices about where to go to college, that they

590
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: would have paid picked a school that maybe offered them

591
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: more aid or just cost less in general, because they

592
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: didn't understand the burden on their adult life that would

593
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: be required to service these student loans. And so if

594
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, if you've got a kid, and these conversations

595
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: should really begin in middle school, you know, middle school,

596
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: high school, they should be had on an ongoing basis.

597
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: Think about what your kids can do to make themselves

598
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: attractive to various colleges, you know, getting good grades and

599
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: maintaining certain activities as well as you know, this is

600
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: how much there is. The rest is going to be

601
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: coming from you. And let's talk about the best way

602
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 1: to put this together so that when you graduate you're

603
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: not feeling burdened. I mean, even just some simple numbers,

604
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: For every twenty thousand dollars that you borrow, it's going

605
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: to cost about two high one hundred and seventy dollars

606
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: a month to pay that back for ten years. And

607
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: a lot of kids are borrowing double that, which means

608
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars off the top of your paycheck after

609
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: tax is just going for student loans. What does that mean?

610
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: Does that mean you can't move out of the house?

611
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: Does it mean you you know? And what can we

612
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: do to minimize that going in. Yeah, that's a great

613
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: conversation to be having. And how about for younger kids,

614
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that we can be

615
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: talking about. I think the big message to get across

616
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: to younger kids is that money is limited and you

617
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: have to choose how to use your money, which I

618
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: know sounds really kind of simplistic, but it's a lesson

619
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't often get transferred. Allowance is a really really

620
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: good teaching tool for this, but you have to give

621
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: an allowance with a list of things that you're not

622
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: going to buy anymore and that kids have to buy

623
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: for themselves using their limited resources. I also think it's

624
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: important for teenagers to work and earn their own money.

625
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: I've got two kids, and I had the experience with

626
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: both of them of them waking up when they first

627
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: started babysitting and realizing that the ten dollars an hour

628
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: that they earned was so much more valuable than the

629
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: ten dollars that they got as an allowance or in

630
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: a birthday gift, because all of a sudden they associated

631
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: it with their time. All of a sudden, it was oh,

632
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: I you know, I earned this, and maybe I'm not

633
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: going to spend it so quickly, that's absolutely Do you

634
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: recommend talking specifics with your Like, my kids have developed

635
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: a new fascination with oh, what is this cost? And

636
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: what does this cost? And when I was growing up,

637
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: we never use numbers, which is actually very interesting because

638
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: I had a very frugal family and upbringing. But I've

639
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: just been like, it costs this, your soccer cost it much,

640
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: so you have to go or you know you're going

641
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: to owe me this or whatever. Is there any reason

642
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: not to just come out with it? I mean, I

643
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: kind of do coach them, but this is not like

644
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: playground conversation. But yeah, no, I I don't think. I

645
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: think it's fine if they're curious to know what things

646
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: know what things cost. I think that that's fine to share.

647
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: There are some kids who will ask you know how

648
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: much you make. That's a personal decision about whether or

649
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: not you want to share it. You certainly don't want

650
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: that to be playground conversation, but I think it's okay.

651
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: I think I think much like we teach kids price comparison,

652
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: you know, they it's helpful for them to understand what

653
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: things cost as you go through life, and you explain

654
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 1: that you're choosing to use your resources in in one

655
00:37:53,480 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: way or another. You know, the the argument that the

656
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: argument that you can't afford it when you can afford

657
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: it doesn't wash with kids, right They know better. They

658
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: know if you've got money to go out to dinner,

659
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: they know if you've got money to go on vacation.

660
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: They know. But you can explain that when they ask,

661
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, why their friend's family is going on a

662
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: vacation at Christmas time and you're not that you are

663
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: choosing to do something else. You know, we can't do everything,

664
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: so we choose to do this. We choose to put

665
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: more money away for college, We choose to we chose

666
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: to renovate the kitchen so that we'd all have a

667
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the choices happen to be, you can explain.

668
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: You can explain to them that it's it's choice and

669
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: that as they get older, just as they do with

670
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: their own money today, they'll have to make bigger choices. Well,

671
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: this is wonderful, Well, Geene, this has been great advice.

672
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: We always ask our guests to give us one. We

673
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: call it a love of the week. So this is

674
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: just something in your life that is cool at the moment.

675
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: It can be financial. It can be you know, a

676
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: financial product or service or app or whatever. It could

677
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: also be completely different. We hear coffee a lot, so

678
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 1: we can go first just to uh, you know, help

679
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: with that. So, Sarah, what what's your love of the week? Oh,

680
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 1: I forgot that. I had to say it in front

681
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: of her. Well, I was a year's long wine app

682
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: user and I still really like it. But one of

683
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: my listeners suggested I try every Dollar because I didn't

684
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: want to pay for the paid wineap and every dollar

685
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: is free and does much of what wineap did, and

686
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: I'm very happy with it. So it's my level of

687
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: the week. Yeah, you know, I've been really loving It's

688
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: going to sound like a financial nerd here, but VT,

689
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: which I think is you know, the total World index fund.

690
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: But I've been by not a tip, not a tip,

691
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: but you know, there's there's iv V, which is like

692
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: the S and P five hundred I think, which is

693
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: a heavy portfolio component for me. But then you know,

694
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: you try to get the whole world. So I've been

695
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: as i've been rebalancing my portfolio the past few weeks,

696
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: I've been looking more at that one. Okay, and for me,

697
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: I've got I think this week I'm loving robin Hood

698
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: snacks and Robinhood is a financial site, financial app, but

699
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: they have a really wonderful newsletter that comes out every morning,

700
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: and it is it digs into the earnings on various companies.

701
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: They do it in a very entertaining way, and I'm

702
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, for a while I was sort of not

703
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: opening it every day, but these days I find I am.

704
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: So there you go, wonderful. Well, listeners, please check out

705
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: Jean's podcast, Her Money and also her new book Women

706
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: with Money, The judgment free Guide to creating the joyful,

707
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: less stressed, purposeful, and yes, rich life you deserve for

708
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: more of her wonderful advice. So Jeane, thank you so much.

709
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: Thank you well. That was awesome. And this week's listener

710
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: question is somewhat financially related. She says, how do you

711
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: prioritize spending money in an ethical way that also works

712
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: for your family? So pre kids, this listener says, they

713
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,959
Speaker 1: had more disposable income and more time, and so they'd

714
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: try to buy what seemed like the right consumer choice

715
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: with sustainably sourced products were possible with lots more time

716
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: for researching these things shopping in person if that was necessary.

717
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: They also donated a certain percentage of their income to

718
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: charitable causes. Now that they have children, of course, their

719
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: costs have increased and they seem to have less time,

720
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: so the charitable donations have become more haphazard, and they

721
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: are not putting as much time and effort into researching

722
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: and choosing products that might be whatever ethical standards they

723
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: have maybe had in the past. Now we justify this,

724
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: she says, as the time saved enables us to exercise, sleep,

725
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: spend more time with our children, et cetera. And they're

726
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: always going to be trade offs with time and money

727
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: and consumer choices. But I am interested in your perspectives

728
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 1: regarding this. You know, what do you think about ethical

729
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: spending and philanthropy and what that means when you have

730
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: small children? My answer, and I mean, I think this person,

731
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, much like we talk about, if you're listening

732
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: to parenting podcasts and reading parenting books, you're probably already

733
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: doing better than just sort of the average person. So

734
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: you should probably give yourself credit for even thinking in

735
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: this direction. But this, to me is such a shades

736
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: of gray thing, and we should be very careful not

737
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: to make it black and white, like you're not. Nobody's

738
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: going to be able to get every single product from

739
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: an ethically sourced local merchant, and even if they did,

740
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: then they'd probably find out that one of them had

741
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: political views that they were against. You know, it's impossible

742
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: to be like perfect in this realm. So I guess

743
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: my thought is to just probably there's not as much

744
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: of a reason to beat yourself up about your choices,

745
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: particularly at this stage of life. And it may be

746
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: that you're right that this is time that's saved that

747
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: enables you at this time to just keep things more simple.

748
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: But you also might think about, like, if you are

749
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: investing those dollars for later, that money is growing, and

750
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: if the market does poorly, then it's what you're going

751
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: to retire on. But if the market does well, then

752
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: while you have like amazing philanthropy options down the road.

753
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: So I guess I don't think it's necessarily terrible not

754
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: to be giving a huge set amount right now if

755
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: things are a little bit tighter and you want to

756
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: make sure that your future is taken care of and

757
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: your children are taken care of. So yeah, I also

758
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: mentioned that you know you might want to think about

759
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: what you're doing with time, and you might not have

760
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: very much disposable time now, but that a change. So

761
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: your philanthropily plan doesn't necessarily always have to be a

762
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: certain percentage every month. It might be participating in something

763
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: that's related to your industry. Like I went to a

764
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: frea clinic last weekend with my residence and it was

765
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: fantastic And that's something I can see myself doing more

766
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: of later on when my kids are older. And if

767
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: you think about your hourly rate you are a professional,

768
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: which you are, then that may be a fantastic donation.

769
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean you were doing like free

770
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: physicals for kids for school, right, I mean, that's that's

771
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: a wonderful thing for you to do and that you

772
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: are uniquely positioned to do, and that's that's probably better

773
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: for the world than Sarah taking the same amount of

774
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: time to research the exact you know, supply chain of

775
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 1: all the things that she is purchasing. Yeah, I mean,

776
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: I got to say, I'm probably not putting too much

777
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: thought into this. There's certain things I do. We've talked

778
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: in the past about my you know, with the Hungry

779
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: Harvest box, like trying to reduce some food waste in

780
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: terms of creating a secondary market for food that might

781
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: go to waste. You know, we certainly are giving some

782
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: money currently to causes that we think are interesting, and

783
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: we are trying to figure out long term what this

784
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: is going to look like. It's fun to do stuff

785
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: that when it's bigger, that it's more targeted. So, for instance,

786
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: we gave a scholarship to Texas A and M because

787
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: that is where my husband went for college and he

788
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: went on a scholarship and so kind of felt like

789
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: he owed it to them to pay that back, and

790
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: so we have and I think that that was a

791
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: great choice of things to do. We've put some money

792
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: into My old choir has a commissioning program going on

793
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: that the commission new Music, and I'm very happy to

794
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 1: support that because I like the idea of new choral

795
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: music coming into the world. And so that's something we're doing.

796
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: And you know, these are the kind of things I

797
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: want to think about over time. I think if this

798
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: is something that is not huge for you right now,

799
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: if there is some community organization that you are part

800
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: of that you are spending a lot of time with,

801
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: that might be a good choice for your dollars just

802
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: because you're there. I mean, you're seeing what it's doing.

803
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: You know it's doing good things, so you don't have

804
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: to do you know, a ton of research on that.

805
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: So that might be your house of worship, or it

806
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: might be a local volunteer organization, something related to children

807
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: in your community that you can see what they're doing,

808
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: but you can sort of target on that for now

809
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: and know that over time you might be able to

810
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: think more about this as you get out of the

811
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: little kid stage. This has been best of both worlds.

812
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: We've been talking money, we had gene Chatsky on, and

813
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: we will be back next week with more on making

814
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can

815
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at

816
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me

817
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the

818
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time

819
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: for more on making work and life work together.