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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're

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Speaker 1: back with the fourth and final part of our series

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Speaker 1: on the healing waters, the belief held by many throughout

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Speaker 1: history that you could cure your illnesses and improve your

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Speaker 1: health by bathing or immersing yourself in water, often water

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Speaker 1: with special properties, maybe water of a certain temperature like

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Speaker 1: hot baths or cold baths, or water from a special

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Speaker 1: source such as a particular warm mineral spring. Now. In

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Speaker 1: previous episodes, as a brief refresher, we talked about the

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Speaker 1: prehistoric emergence of bathing culture and the ancient religious associations

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Speaker 1: between bathing and spiritual purity in the realm of healing.

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Speaker 1: We talked about ancient Greek and Roman theories of medicine,

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Speaker 1: such as humoral theory, which sometimes had the consequence of

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Speaker 1: recommending bathing as a cure for all sorts of health problems,

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Speaker 1: and we also talked about the importance of baths and

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Speaker 1: spas in the culture and civic infrastructure of the Roman Empire.

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Speaker 1: We discussed some interesting and strange examples of spas with

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Speaker 1: alleged healing powers that contain living organisms such as bloodworms

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Speaker 1: or fish, that are themselves thought to in some way

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Speaker 1: be a mechanism of healing. And in the episode just

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Speaker 1: previous to this one, we discussed an I thought fascinating

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Speaker 1: medical history paper from a few decades back, analyzing records

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Speaker 1: of treatment that made use of the thermal waters of Bath, England,

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Speaker 1: and this paper argued that while yeah, most of the

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Speaker 1: conditions people thought could be cured by bathing in hot

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Speaker 1: springs throughout history, we're probably just benefiting from the placebo effect.

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Speaker 1: There is pretty decent evidence for thinking that the immersion

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Speaker 1: treatments at Bath were genuinely directly effective at curing paralysis

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Speaker 1: caused by chronic lead poisoning, because, according to the author,

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Speaker 1: sitting up to your neck in warm water increases the

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Speaker 1: rate in which your body purges lead content through urine. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: after all that, we're back today to finish off this

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Speaker 1: series with a few more interesting tidbits. Now, one of

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Speaker 1: the things I did want to briefly talk about is

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Speaker 1: that a lot of the mineral springs with alleged healing

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Speaker 1: powers that we've mentioned so far have been in places

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Speaker 1: that were formerly part of the Roman Empire, and I

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Speaker 1: think this should not be surprising, given the importance of

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Speaker 1: bathing in Roman culture in general, but especially in the

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Speaker 1: Greek and Roman theories of medicine we discussed in the

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Speaker 1: previous parts of the series, and in fact you can

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Speaker 1: still see like the lingering effects of this. There are

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Speaker 1: alleged healing spas all throughout Europe that go way way

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Speaker 1: back that can be traced back to Roman times. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think we should assume that the association of

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Speaker 1: some forms of bathing with healing is just like an odd,

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Speaker 1: unique belief contingent on some amount of Roman cultural heritage,

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Speaker 1: because I think it seems that people in many places

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Speaker 1: around the world, at various times have come to think

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Speaker 1: that they can be healed by bathing, by bathing in general,

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Speaker 1: or through the specific waters of some particular mineral spring.

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Speaker 1: And so you can find examples of this from around

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Speaker 1: the world. There was one that I ended up doing

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Speaker 1: kind of a deep dive on. I was reading about

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Speaker 1: the Kittagada Hot Springs of Uganda. So the Kittagada Hot

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Speaker 1: Springs are they're a system of geothermal springs in southwest Uganda.

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Speaker 1: I've seen the name Kittigada translated as both warm water

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Speaker 1: and as warm place or good place. And there's a

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Speaker 1: town of the same name located about two kilometers northwest

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Speaker 1: of the springs. And these waters are said to collect

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Speaker 1: in two side by side pools, and they are believed

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Speaker 1: by many to have healing properties, so much so that

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Speaker 1: they are or at least they were, as of the

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Speaker 1: sources I was reading, which were some Uganda newspaper articles

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Speaker 1: from roughly ten years ago or so. At that time,

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Speaker 1: they were being visited by hundreds of people every day,

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Speaker 1: both locals and tourists, tourists from within Uganda and tourists internationally.

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Speaker 1: And I was reading about the springs in a series

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Speaker 1: of articles from a Ugandan English language newspaper called New Vision,

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Speaker 1: which is based out of Kampala. So one of the

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Speaker 1: articles is called the Healing Hot Springs. It was published

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Speaker 1: in February twenty fourteen by Chris Mugasha. And in this

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Speaker 1: article the author actually describes a visit he had to

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Speaker 1: the springs and describes some basic facts about them and

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Speaker 1: sort of how they're used by the people. So Rabbi

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Speaker 1: attached some pictures of the Kitagada Springs. You can see

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Speaker 1: that they are surrounded by some very interesting rock formations.

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what sort of geology forms the

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Speaker 1: rocks like this, but you can see that all around

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Speaker 1: the pools there are these strange, beautiful, interesting kind of

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Speaker 1: like crags poking up in all directions. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this sense of the rocks being burst out by swelling

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Speaker 1: from beneath. Yeah. So, according to Mugosha's article here, the

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Speaker 1: springs are divided into a section that's used by men,

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Speaker 1: and then a section used by women and children. And

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Speaker 1: then also there are some people who don't actually want

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Speaker 1: to stay in bathe in person with everybody else, and

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Speaker 1: he says they bring jerry cans and fill them up

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Speaker 1: with hot spring water to carry back home. And the

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Speaker 1: thermal pools also vary by temperature. There's one area that

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Speaker 1: apparently as comfortably warm water, while the other has water

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Speaker 1: that the author describes as hot enough to prepare porridge

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Speaker 1: or cook an egg. Yeah. This is a feature of

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Speaker 1: various hot springs that I was reading about. You know,

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Speaker 1: just because it's a hot spring, does I mean you

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Speaker 1: can or should get into it. There are some very

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Speaker 1: dangerous hot springs out there in the world, and you

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Speaker 1: should definitely obey any signage or rules and regulations surrounding them.

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Speaker 1: But then there are also plenty of complexes where if

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Speaker 1: you know the right place to go in a spring complex,

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Speaker 1: then you'll be all right because that's where the water

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Speaker 1: will be warm and not hot enough to cook eggs. Right.

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Speaker 1: And it seemed from what I was reading that the

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Speaker 1: area with water hot enough to cook an egg may

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Speaker 1: still be used for some things. But I doubt people

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Speaker 1: are like getting in that water and hanging out there

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Speaker 1: for a long time because you don't want to be

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Speaker 1: the egg. So this is this topic. This is not

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Speaker 1: something I research, but this might be something we might

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Speaker 1: have to put a pin in to come back to

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Speaker 1: in discussing like the history of cooking, you know, because

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Speaker 1: we've talked about the importance of natural springs, both hot

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Speaker 1: and cold, to ancient peoples. I wonder how this factors

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Speaker 1: or doesn't factor into the history of boiling as a

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Speaker 1: cooking method. I have no idea, but that is an

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Speaker 1: interesting question. Yeah, maybe before we had fire, did anybody

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Speaker 1: ever try to like boil their food in a hot spring.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what evidence of that there would be

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Speaker 1: left over if they did. Yeah, that would be the

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Speaker 1: thing right anyway. So the author here says that people

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Speaker 1: visit the springs for multiple reasons. So some people it

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Speaker 1: seems to be just recreational. People come for pleasure and

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Speaker 1: relaxation and the hot waters. Maybe they come after work

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Speaker 1: to chill out, or they come to admire the area's

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Speaker 1: natural beauty. But he says that the majority of people

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Speaker 1: there are looking for healing of some kind. And an

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Speaker 1: earlier article in the same newspaper I read in New Vision.

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Speaker 1: This article was by Ali Wasaswa from August twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: mentions people coming to the springs hoping for cures to

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Speaker 1: a wide range of health issues, both minor and severe.

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Speaker 1: So this includes everything from acne to cancer. And while

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Speaker 1: many people claim to have experienced improvements after bathing in

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Speaker 1: the water, was was article sites some doubts about the

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Speaker 1: efficacy of these cures from a researcher named Moses Kakaya

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Speaker 1: who was affiliated with an organization called Save for Health

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Speaker 1: Uganda that appears to be a Ugandan public health in

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Speaker 1: geo and the article says that this team investigated the

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Speaker 1: springs and said they found the waters had no special

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Speaker 1: healing properties. Mugosha's article mentions that to the extent the

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Speaker 1: waters do have any healing properties. If they do, those

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Speaker 1: could possibly be based in specific mineral contents of the water.

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Speaker 1: We've discussed some possibilities of those kinds with other springs,

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Speaker 1: but also that the claims of healing could simply be

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Speaker 1: from the heat of the water, feeling good, alleviating pain

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Speaker 1: and swollen joints and things like that, or just from

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Speaker 1: easing stress, you know, helping people relax and other quote

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Speaker 1: psychotherapeutic effects. Now, this article and another article also by

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Speaker 1: Mugasha from the month before mentioned threats to the springs,

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Speaker 1: which is something I think we haven't really thought about

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Speaker 1: that much yet, but that hot springs are not necessarily

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Speaker 1: an eternal phenomenon, or even a semi eternal phenomenon, because

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Speaker 1: even though they are heated by you know, the rocks

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Speaker 1: from deep down below they you know, they still are

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Speaker 1: subject to hydrodynamic effects and so like changes of what's

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Speaker 1: going on where water drains, where water goes can affect

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Speaker 1: how a hot spring works. And so these two articles

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Speaker 1: mentioned some threats to the springs. So the article from

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Speaker 1: a month before by the same author reports complaints from

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Speaker 1: locals that construction from a nearby highway has had negative

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Speaker 1: effects on the springs. Basically, it seems that they're claiming

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Speaker 1: water from a nearby wetland system was diverted because of

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Speaker 1: roadwork and this has led to flooding of the spring.

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Speaker 1: And of course, flooding of the spring is like mixing

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Speaker 1: water from other sources, which causes the water to become tepid.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants to travel to a tepid spring. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: the later article by Mgosha also mentions changes in weather

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Speaker 1: patterns suit a climate change possibly having an effect, because

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Speaker 1: changing rain patterns mean that the increased flooding of the

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Speaker 1: nearby river also means that it runs over into the

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Speaker 1: spring and this results, I think, if I'm understanding right

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Speaker 1: once again with the river water coming into the spring

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Speaker 1: water and you know, kind of like diluting it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely to your point. I mean, these springs like this

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Speaker 1: are environmental conditions and they can be altered either intentionally

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Speaker 1: or accidentally exactly. And so this article describes people who

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Speaker 1: were local people who are trying to protect the spring

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Speaker 1: having to like stack up essentially sort of sandbags like

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Speaker 1: bags of gravel to try to block the flow, the

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Speaker 1: inflow of water from other sources into the spring. Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: Now I was trying to find a scientific paper directly

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Speaker 1: testing the leedged healing properties of this spring in particular

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Speaker 1: because again, you know, one of the articles mentions an

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Speaker 1: investigation by that Ugandan Public Health NGEO about its medical properties.

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Speaker 1: I didn't come across anything, so I can't comment with

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Speaker 1: any confidence about whether these springs would have any health

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Speaker 1: effects other than placebo. But especially since that paper we

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Speaker 1: read in the last episode arguing that that spot therapy

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Speaker 1: could have actual effects on chronic lead poisoning in particular,

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Speaker 1: and again that was the argument, was that it worked

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Speaker 1: by increasing the rate at which lad is purge from

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Speaker 1: the body through urine. I wonder, you know, I wonder

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Speaker 1: if there are other conditions where people might be getting

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Speaker 1: some health improvements through a surprising mechanism other than just maybe, say,

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Speaker 1: you know, the very real effects of relaxing in nice

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Speaker 1: warm water. Yeah, you always have to at least keep

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Speaker 1: keep the door open to such a possibility, even if

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Speaker 1: in many cases it seems perhaps unlikely based on what

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Speaker 1: we understand currently. Now, as long as we're speaking about

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Speaker 1: you know, other international examples of healing waters. I felt

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Speaker 1: like we should at least acknowledge that the River Ganges

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Speaker 1: in India and Bangladesh has long been held as a

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Speaker 1: traditional place of healing via immersion. Again, not a natural

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Speaker 1: you know, spring, hot spring and cold spring, etc. But

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Speaker 1: but a great river. Yeah, this is actually a subtopic

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Speaker 1: that I became very interested in when we first started

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Speaker 1: looking at the series, But then I got kind of

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed and I was like, Oh, it seems like the

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Speaker 1: Ganges would have to be an entire series on its own. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: there's just so much to it. You've you've got glacier

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Speaker 1: snow and perma frost melt. You've got discussions of supposedly

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Speaker 1: beneficial bacteria, phages, antibiotic resistant bacteria that are that are

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Speaker 1: not beneficial. Then you have you have to deal with

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Speaker 1: topics such as pollution as well as all of this

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Speaker 1: on top of a rich tradition of religious significance. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's something we'd have to come back

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Speaker 1: to and cover in more depth in the future. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, we didn't want to give the

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Speaker 1: impression that we were just overlooking it. Right now, another

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Speaker 1: example of spring and spa culture. I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: up just briefly, is, of course Japan. Japan has a

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Speaker 1: very rich tradition of spas and thermal springs, and I

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Speaker 1: believe we previously alluded to the Japanese macaques who famously

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Speaker 1: immersed themselves in hot springs and also do so communally.

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Speaker 1: So that's a great example of non human primates engaging

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Speaker 1: in this very activity that humans have enjoyed for so long.

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Speaker 1: So I've read that they're somewhere in the neighborhood of

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Speaker 1: twenty five thousand hot spring sources or on sin throughout Japan.

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Speaker 1: I got an email recently about a tour of hot

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Speaker 1: springs in Japan eighteen days long. Looked amazing, but just

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Speaker 1: you know, it basically shows that, yeah, you can travel

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Speaker 1: to Japan and largely just do hot springs and it'll

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Speaker 1: be enough to fill eighteen days worth of travel. Now,

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Speaker 1: one in particular that I thought was pretty interesting, and

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Speaker 1: I have to I have to stress this is not

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Speaker 1: actually an example of a spring system where you can

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Speaker 1: do much or really any bathing. But it's called Chinoki Jigokku,

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Speaker 1: and it's in Beppoo, Japan, and here you'll find the

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Speaker 1: eight hells of Beppoo. I think I've sometimes seen the

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Speaker 1: count of seven, but I believe eight is the right count.

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Speaker 1: There's and these are translated, of course from the Japanese.

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Speaker 1: There's sea hell, white pond Hell, devil mountain Hell, mountain Hell,

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Speaker 1: alligator Hell, cooking pot hell, which this is actually the

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Speaker 1: case cooking pot hell. These are all thermal springs, and

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Speaker 1: as the name implies, many of them are really hot.

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Speaker 1: Cooking pot hell is where you can actually cook food,

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Speaker 1: and there there's a long standing tradition of cooking food

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Speaker 1: in this particular thermal spring. There's tornado Hell, and then

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Speaker 1: there is blood pond Hell or bloody hell pond. Is

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Speaker 1: it red? It is very red. Yeah, you can look

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Speaker 1: up pictures of this. It's it's all. It's too hot

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Speaker 1: to get into it. It's basically hot enough to cook

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Speaker 1: food in itself. It has a deep red color that

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Speaker 1: I believe is due to both like clay content and

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Speaker 1: iron oxide. I would have assumed red bacteria. All of

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Speaker 1: these hells, all these ponds, these are tourist destinations. You

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Speaker 1: can go and visit them, and I think they have

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Speaker 1: if I'm understanding correctly from the information I was looking

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Speaker 1: at they have smaller pools for like soaking your feet

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Speaker 1: in as a visitor. So even though you can't stick

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Speaker 1: your feet directly into many of these hells, and I

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Speaker 1: think Alligator hell As actually has alligators in it, and

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Speaker 1: you don't want to stick your feet in there either,

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Speaker 1: But at any rate, they do have some smaller pools

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Speaker 1: that I guess are fed or partially fed by the

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Speaker 1: actual spring waters that you can get your feet wet in.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea there were alligators in Japan. They

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Speaker 1: might be imported. I'm not sure what their their status is.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, they're definitely alligators here, no matter where they

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Speaker 1: came from. I don't care where your alligators come from.

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Speaker 1: I just want them to be alligators. They've got to

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Speaker 1: be alligators in Alligator hell Yes, the end to the end.

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Speaker 1: I believe they come through on that front. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: let's get back into the healing waters, though, away from

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Speaker 1: the alligator waters and the egg boiling waters. So we've

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Speaker 1: we've already talked a bit in these episodes about traditional

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Speaker 1: healing waters potentially having something specific in them, something in

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Speaker 1: the contents of the waters that enable healing in human bathers,

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Speaker 1: and in some cases these springs end up having something

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Speaker 1: in them that some cases where a particular element in

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Speaker 1: the water is also utilized in modern medical treatments one

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Speaker 1: way or the other. So it's tempting to wonder, well,

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Speaker 1: if these springs maybe offer the same benefits for those

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Speaker 1: who simply immerse themselves in the water or drink of

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Speaker 1: the waters. Okay, so not that this would happen, but

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Speaker 1: for example, it would be like, you know, a set

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Speaker 1: of menifin is the is the active ingredient in tile

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Speaker 1: and all, and then maybe we discover, oh, there is

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Speaker 1: a spring that naturally has a seed a minifen content

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Speaker 1: in it, and you wonder if we're people like getting

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Speaker 1: their their pre tile and all tile and all from

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Speaker 1: this spring. Oh, well, that would that would be a

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Speaker 1: bad idea for a number of obvious reasons there, thinking

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Speaker 1: about you know, controlled dosages of something in a general

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Speaker 1: medication versus how much are you getting out of the water,

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Speaker 1: how much are you if you're drinking it or potentially

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Speaker 1: absorbing it through your skin. Yes, calibration of dosage would

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Speaker 1: would seem to be a big problem with this, so

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Speaker 1: so definitely something to keep in mind as we go

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Speaker 1: into a couple of specific examples, and I think both

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Speaker 1: pretty fun specific examples too, in that they both have

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Speaker 1: connections to our home state of Georgia. Here in the

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Speaker 1: United States, we don't often get to cover things that

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Speaker 1: are that are present in Georgia or Georgia history. So

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Speaker 1: we're going to start with lithia water. This is mineral

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Speaker 1: water marked by the presence of lithium salts. Now, to

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Speaker 1: be clear, most of what we're talking about with lithia

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Speaker 1: water concerns its consumption, though I have read that Sweetwater

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Speaker 1: Park Hotel this is a luxury resort which operated in

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Speaker 1: Lithia Springs, Georgia during the heyday of lithium water tourism

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Speaker 1: in Georgia's Douglas County also offered lithia vapor baths, which

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Speaker 1: were said to be very popular. I included an old

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Speaker 1: illustration of what this, I guess may have consisted for

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Speaker 1: you here, Joe. Okay, So what we're looking at here

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Speaker 1: appear to be wooden boxes in which men are situated

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Speaker 1: with their heads poking out of a hole in a

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Speaker 1: wooden plank, so it's like they're in a pillory. But

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Speaker 1: there well, I guess without the wrists poking out so

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Speaker 1: it's just the head poking out of the pillory and

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Speaker 1: then there is steam shooting out of the edges of

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Speaker 1: the box, so you can you can tell it must

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Speaker 1: be quite warm and moist on the inside. Yes, now

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Speaker 1: none of this is going on today, But um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Do you ever make it up to Sweetwater

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Speaker 1: Creek State Park, Joe, this is the same Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a great place. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful place. But back

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Speaker 1: in the day, uh, back at the like the the

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Speaker 1: the end of the eighteen hundreds beginning of the nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: this was a very popular destination for well to do

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Speaker 1: folks such as the Vanderbilts such as Mark Twain. This

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Speaker 1: particular Sweetwater Park Hotel was again luxury resort. People came

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Speaker 1: from all over to partake of the of the healing

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Speaker 1: powers of Lithia waters. The hotel burned down in nineteen twelve,

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's not even there is an historical

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Speaker 1: location anymore. This is funny that you mentioned Mark Twain

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Speaker 1: because he also came up in a in a research

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Speaker 1: tangent that I ended up not including. But he he

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Speaker 1: wrote a piece about a place like a spa. He

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Speaker 1: went to somewhere in Europe. I think it was in France,

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Speaker 1: and it's called I don't even know how to pronounce

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Speaker 1: the name of this place. The name it was called

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Speaker 1: ai X. Do you know how you say that? I

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Speaker 1: do not. Let's call it I. He went to he

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Speaker 1: went to I in I think it's France, and he

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Speaker 1: wrote a piece about it called I Paradise of the

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Speaker 1: Room Attics. So I guess Twain was into various kinds

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Speaker 1: of like hot wet healing. Yeah. Well, and he was,

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Speaker 1: he was very well traveled for the day. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: I was reading a little bit more about this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this whole fad around lithia waters, and I was reading

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Speaker 1: a paper titled Lithium Treatment in Clinical Medicine History, Current

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Speaker 1: Status in Future Use, published in the Journal of Sell

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Speaker 1: Science and Therapy in twenty seventeen by Duval and Galachio.

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Speaker 1: And this was interesting point that lithia water became a

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Speaker 1: health fad around eighteen fifty and was especially big and

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Speaker 1: again the late eighteen hundreds. In early nineteen hundreds, it

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Speaker 1: was thought to treat gout, anxiety, various nervous conditions, and

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Speaker 1: a whole slew of other ailments. So similar situation that

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Speaker 1: we found, you know, discussing any of these hate healing waters,

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Speaker 1: what does it treat well? What you got going on? Right,

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Speaker 1: A lot of things. So it's interesting they mentioned gout

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Speaker 1: because that did come up in the paper about Bath,

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Speaker 1: specifically as one of the lead poisoning associated conditions that

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Speaker 1: the physicians at Bath thought could be cured by long

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Speaker 1: periods of immersion. But another thing about gout at Bath

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Speaker 1: was one of the purposes of like recording all this

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Speaker 1: data at the charity hospital there to say, you know,

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Speaker 1: we really can prove that these waters are providing a benefit,

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Speaker 1: was to try to attract rich patients who had gout. Well.

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Speaker 1: It is often referred to as the disease of kings, right,

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Speaker 1: disease of the upper class clientele. Yeah. Now, the author's

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Speaker 1: note here that though even though there was you know,

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Speaker 1: this boom in lithia water and the healing powers of lithium,

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Speaker 1: the authors know that there was almost no mention of

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Speaker 1: lithium in psychiatry papers of the time. So bottling lithia

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Speaker 1: waters became big business, but it took a serious dive

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Speaker 1: in the US when the US government got involved. So

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Speaker 1: the US Bureau of Chemistry this was a precursor to

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Speaker 1: the FDA. They examined the waters on the market and

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Speaker 1: the lithia waters and there and there was lithia waters

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Speaker 1: coming from lithia springs in Georgia but also from other places.

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Speaker 1: And they they tested these waters out and they found

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Speaker 1: that they contained little to know lithium, and it was

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Speaker 1: concluded that whatever results people were experiencing were mainly due

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Speaker 1: to just drinking water. Oh that's interesting and yeah, which

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00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier,

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Speaker 1: like earlier in the last episode, Like even if the

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00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: treatment itself was doing nothing else, then perhaps you're drinking

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00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: more water than usual, you're drinking less beer or what

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00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: have you. Yeah. Yeah, So when this happened, when the

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Speaker 1: US Bureau Chemistry chimed in well lithium proponents, they pivoted

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Speaker 1: more to the use of lithium tablets, which the authors

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Speaker 1: here point out could be properly measured, you know, you

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Speaker 1: could be a little more certain about how much lithium

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Speaker 1: you're giving people. But then there was kind of like

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Speaker 1: a power creep with the lithium tablets. The concentrations increased

398
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: and the dangers of lithium toxicity became more apparent, all

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Speaker 1: while the actual therapeutic properties of lithium consumption seemed just unverifiable,

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Speaker 1: So therapeutic use of lithium eventually just went out of fashion.

401
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: I found a couple of the original scathing reviews of

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Speaker 1: lithiu water from the time period collected in the Checkered

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Speaker 1: History of Lithium in Medicine by Stroebush and Jefferson in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties Pharmacy in History, Volume twenty two, number two.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear these reviews. Oh yeah, they're good, so the

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Speaker 1: US Bureau of Chemistry said at the time, in a

407
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Speaker 1: review by Charles Harrington, MD. Quote, this water claims to

408
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: be a cure for almost all ills to which flesh

409
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: is air and to contain over fourteen grains of lithium

410
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: salts per gallon. It proves to be an exceedingly hard water,

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Speaker 1: practically free from organic matter, absolutely free from lithia, but

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Speaker 1: rich and undesirable lime salts priceless. Yeah, it really brings

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Speaker 1: the hammer down. And then there's another case. The Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court of the District of Columbia had this to say

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Speaker 1: concerning waters from Buffalo Lithia Springs, Virginia. At the time quote,

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Speaker 1: for a person to obtain a therapeutic dose of lithium

417
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Speaker 1: by drinking Buffalo lithia water, he would have to drink

418
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Speaker 1: from one hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred and

419
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Speaker 1: twenty five thousand gallons of water per day. It was

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Speaker 1: further testified without contradiction that Potomac River water contains five

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Speaker 1: times as much lithium per gallon as the water controversy.

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Speaker 1: Oh amazing. So, like, the one thing you can be

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Speaker 1: sure about with lithium water is that it doesn't really

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Speaker 1: have any lithium. Yeah, yeah, I again, these were this

425
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Speaker 1: is these were the findings at the time. Now, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that you mentioned lithium went out of fashion as

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Speaker 1: a as a health treatment or a mood treatment, because

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Speaker 1: while I'm certainly not on the cutting edge of a psychopharmacology,

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Speaker 1: I do believe that lithium has been used in the

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Speaker 1: modern era as a as a psychiatric treatment, hasn't it.

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00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah Yeah, And that's the thing that I guess can

432
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: for us, like retroactively, can be kind of confusing about

433
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: all this because because lithium does become an important treatment,

434
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: specifically for bipolar disorder, this wasn't discovered until nineteen forty nine.

435
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: That's when American psychiatrist John Kade discovered that it could

436
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: be used as a mood stabilizer for bipolar disorder as

437
00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: opposed to resorting to lobotomy or electro convulsive therapy were

438
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: kind of the standards of the day. So that was

439
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine. The treatment became more prominent and more

440
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: covered by I believe nineteen fifty two, and it was

441
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: approved by the FDA in the nineteen seventies. And I've

442
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: read that it remains an effective treatment, though the authors

443
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: of this particular paper about the history of lithium as

444
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: a treatment, they point out that it still remains in

445
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: some circles somewhat controversial due to toxicity and side effects. So,

446
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's I guess with it's a similar case

447
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: with a lot of medications. You know, it's like there's

448
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: it has a definite usage, but you also have to

449
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: be aware of the potential side effects to it, and

450
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: some discussion still remains. Yeah, So to come back to

451
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: wondering if lithia water springs could have offered relief to

452
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: individuals suffering from specific neurological maladies, I don't know again,

453
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: I you know, no expert on any of this, but

454
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: it seems iffy based on what we've looked at, mainly

455
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: because of concentration issues with the water itself and the

456
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: risk of toxicity and side effects if higher quantities were

457
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: obtained from the water, which it doesn't seem like is

458
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: necessarily the case with any of these naturally occurring lithia

459
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: spring waters. I mean, it seems like from what you've

460
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: been talking about that carefully managing dosage of lithium is

461
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: one of the crucial factors in modern prescriptions, and so like,

462
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: if you're just gulping down water that has some questionable

463
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: amount of lithium content, that seems like you're either maybe

464
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: not getting enough for it to make much of a difference,

465
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: or you risk getting too much and that is highly toxic. Yeah,

466
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: And I just I don't think the concentrations in just

467
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: out there in the natural occurring spring waters would be

468
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: high enough to even relically register for you. Now, you

469
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: can still buy and drink lithia waters from from different springs,

470
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: though it's not held up as I think the miracle

471
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: cure at once was. Though I don't know. It kind

472
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: of depends on branding and fads. I guess from what

473
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: I can tell, it contains lithium by the micrograms, though,

474
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: rather than the milligrams which would be involved in therapeutic doses.

475
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: So I think you'd find yourself, even with you know,

476
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: definite lithia water that you might purchase, you'd still have

477
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: to drink those gallons of it, those hundreds of thousands

478
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: of gallons of it per day to get the levels

479
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: that would reach anything like a therapeutic dosage. Now, on

480
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: this account of concerning lithia spring water, thanks to our

481
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: listener Sean for writing in on this concerning a particular

482
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: Irish well, the well at glenn Nanealt. I've read that

483
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: this area is also called Valley of the Mad and

484
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: made date back to the twelfth century. I don't know

485
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: what the lithium levels are at this well. I couldn't

486
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: find any data on that, but I don't know. Based

487
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: on what we've looked at, I think it's a safe

488
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: bet that it did not contain or does not contain

489
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: therapeutic amounts of lithium, and that the connection here is

490
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: just a coincidence. And also worth noting that lithium springs

491
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: in North America likewise, tend to predate any modern medical

492
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: or scientific understanding, and were utilized by indigenous peoples long

493
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: before the arrival of westerners. Well that's very interesting digression.

494
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: What else have you got for me? Oh well, we

495
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: should also talk about about potentially radioactive spring waters. Nothing

496
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: better for your gout than radioactive spring waters. Yeah, specifically

497
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: radium springs. So Tarifa, We've talked about radium on the

498
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: show before. But radium is a highly radioactive alkaline earth

499
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: metal discovered in eighteen ninety eight by Pierre and Marie Curie.

500
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: They discovered it by noting the radioactivity in pitch blend

501
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: radioactive uranium rich mineral relative to the uranium it actually contains.

502
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: They refine several tons of the stuff of residues down

503
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: to zero point one grams of pure radium by nineteen

504
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: o two, and they isolated radium in nineteen ten. Now,

505
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: radium is important historically, you know, tying into the work

506
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: of the curious here, but its commercial uses have long

507
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: been very limited. So formally it was used in the

508
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: creation of radio luminescent devices, and it was also formally

509
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: used in the medical treatment of cancer, but has largely

510
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: been replaced by stronger and less costly artificial radioisotopes. One

511
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: particular example of the radioluminescent topic here there was a

512
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: luminous paint known as Undark, created by the United States

513
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: Radium Corporation, noted for its connection to the so called

514
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: radium girls factory workers who contracted radiation poisoning from painting

515
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: with the stuff. Yes, and that is a ghastly story

516
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: if you want to go read more about it. The

517
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: luminescent radium paints were used to like maybe illuminate the

518
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: watch hands, you know, the dials on little clocks and

519
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: watches and stuff, and further glow in the dark purposes.

520
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: And it was glowing because the phosphorescent elements in the

521
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: paint were being bombarded by radiation from the radium content.

522
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, obviously that was not good for humans. Yeah,

523
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: but at the time this was we have to put

524
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: things in context. In the early twentieth century, there was

525
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: a great deal of radium fever going on, and there

526
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: was also not much in the way of regulation of

527
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: the stuff. So there were more than a few medical

528
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: quacks out there, you know, jumping in to make some

529
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: money off of the radium craze, so you saw products

530
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: like radithor salts for supposed medicinal use, or the radium

531
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: or revigatur This was a radium aligned water vessel for

532
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: your drinking water. But then on the simcount you also

533
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: saw various products that either couldn't or just didn't actually

534
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: put radium into the product, but really wanted a slice

535
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: of the pie, so they included radium in the brand names,

536
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: such as Radium Brand Creamery butter. This is an actual

537
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties product included the label here for you, Joe,

538
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: with this beautiful image of these these these cattle drinking

539
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: from some sort of a pond or perhaps naturally occurring spring.

540
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: The sun is rising or setting in the background, and

541
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: it says Radium Brand Creamery Butter. Now, can I hope

542
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: that this butter had just as much radium content as

543
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: the bottled lithia water actually had lithium content meaning none? Right? Right, Yeah,

544
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: this apparently had no actual radium in it, but it

545
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: was just getting in on the excitement, like radium equals health,

546
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: and therefore, you know, there was nobody to say you

547
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: couldn't have shouldn't do this, And there are numerous examples

548
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: of this sort of marketing, including the non radioactive radium

549
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: new Tex condoms of the day, but again not actually

550
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: made with radium. Right, And there there are are examples

551
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: of actually radioactive quack products from the twentieth century, including

552
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: the German dor Mud radioactive toothpaste that was made using thorium.

553
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: This was an actual product and you can see some

554
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: alarming looking like poster promotional art for this product as well. Now,

555
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: all of these quackery uses of radium or bad ideas

556
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: because it has no beneficial role in the human body.

557
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: It's radioactive, it's toxic. You don't need to be consuming

558
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: radium salts. Right, There's not like a hidden upside. Right.

559
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: But again, given the enthusiasm for radium during the first

560
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: half of the twentieth century, it should also come as

561
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: no surprise that people were also game to bathe in

562
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: the stuff. So the big one here is not in Georgia.

563
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: It is in what is now the Czech Republic Radium Palace,

564
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: which opened in nineteen twelve. It replaced a smaller spa

565
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: on the property and cashed in hard on radium enthusiasm.

566
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: Atlas Obscura refers to the palace as the birthplace of

567
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: radio balmeology. It ignited a fad in spas around the world,

568
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: anywhere where they were already naturally occurring springs. If you

569
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: found that there was any kind of radium content to

570
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: the waters, well low and behold, you have a new

571
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: way to market your spa, a new way to market

572
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: your spring water. Radium palace and its waters fell out

573
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: of fashion after the Second World War, but the hotel

574
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: was apparently refurbished in the nineteen nineties and it's rather

575
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: stunning looking building, and it still offers radium based treatments,

576
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: though they're apparently limited by contemporary maximum permitted levels of

577
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: radiation doses. But on the same level, this looks like

578
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: a very attractive resort, So we kind of have to

579
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: take It's kind of like going back to their discussion

580
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: of bath, like is it, you know, the communal factors,

581
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: the placidibo factors of everything a fella scenario, So I

582
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: don't know. But coming back to our home state of Georgia,

583
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: Georgia also got in on the action with radium springs.

584
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: Radium is still called radium springs Georgia. The spa here

585
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: was already a retreat destination in the early twentieth century

586
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: offering gambling and naturally occurring hot spring waters. So you

587
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: had a lot of folks that would come down from

588
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: the cold or northern states during the winter and they'd

589
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: enjoy like the pleasant temperatures of just southern Georgia during

590
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: the winter, but also these hot springs. It was known

591
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: as blue springs at the time, but then in nineteen

592
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: twenty five they discovered radium in the water and they

593
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: rebranded thus radium Springs. Wow, and you can still visit it.

594
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: I actually looked it up and I was thinking, well,

595
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: maybe I could go down there for then a rows.

596
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: It was like a four hour drive one way, and

597
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 1: so maybe maybe it wouldn't fit into the workweek all

598
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: that well, but you can still visit the grounds here

599
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: and it it looks rather beautiful. So the supposed health

600
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: benefits of radium spring soaking of radium springs spa water,

601
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: I think in general is pretty dubious, though I suppose

602
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: it's conceivably safe if one is still low the maximal

603
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: permissible level of exposure. But yeah, otherwise I don't suppose

604
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 1: you'd really get much out of the experience, again, other

605
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: than just sort of the set and setting of the

606
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: whole thing. It's worth noting that, of course, there are

607
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: multiple springs at Ramsar in around containing radium and thorium,

608
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: and this area is known as the most naturally radioactive

609
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: place on Earth. The springs here are also used as spas,

610
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: and I think we again have to put them in

611
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: a larger historic context. People have been coming here for

612
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: a very long time and continue to come to Ramsar

613
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: in order to enjoy these spring waters. So yeah, they're uh,

614
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: these are these are places that were special and important

615
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: again before modern science came along to determine exactly what

616
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: was going on in the contents of the water. I'd

617
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: be very interested to hear from anyone out there who's

618
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: had experiences in a in a radium spring what you

619
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: thought of it, what the sort of salon it was

620
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: with the grounds were, Like, I think it's it's fascinating.

621
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: I've not had the experience myself. Yes, uh, same here,

622
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: but it's interesting. This has just kind of like opened

623
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: up a door into this world of all the strange,

624
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: little quirky local thermal springs all all over the world.

625
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: So it makes me think we're maybe gonna get some

626
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: really good listener mail about this series. Oh yeah, I

627
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: want to hear about your your strange local thermal springs

628
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 1: and spas and what's the backstory what goes on there? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

629
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: because a lot of them have some very rich traditions

630
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: behind them, um of perhaps some some quirky history in places,

631
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: and and some alleged healing properties. So yeah, we've already

632
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: heard from at least a few listeners, so certainly keep

633
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: it coming. We've we'd love to to dive into these

634
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: over the next several listener mail episodes. All right, Well,

635
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: on that note, we're going to go and close it

636
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: out for today, but we'd love to hear from everyone

637
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: out there, so you know, definitely right in. Just a

638
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: reminder that Stuff to Blow your Mind publishes its core

639
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 1: episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, we have short form artifact

640
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: or monster fact episode on Wednesdays. On Mondays we do

641
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: the listener mail, and on Fridays we set aside most

642
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: serious concerns to just talk about a weird film on

643
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: Weird House Cinema. Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Pauseway.

644
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

645
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