WEBVTT - How To Make 100k In Tech ft. Cinneah (How To Mondays) 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:10.360 Hey, hey, ba fam, it is producer Imani here. 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.880 Yes, finally you. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.079 Know I can say what's up Mandy and Tiffany. I 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.280 am going rogue? Just kidding, I'm not going rogue, Okay. 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:21.880 I am just here to let y'all know. It is 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.880 how to Mondays. Everybody who tunes in every Monday for 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:32.040 a throwback Brown Ambition episode, you are in for a 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:38.040 special treat this week. It's how to Make six Figures 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.120 in Tech. Make sure you tune into all of Brown 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:47.720 Ambition episodes every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Enjoy this throwback 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:48.640 b a fam. 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:54.600 Hey, hey, hey, be a fam. I cannot wait to 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.640 introduce you to today's guest. She is someone who I 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.720 have been cyberstocking, not in a creepy way, in a 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.880 totally cool way for a long time. I feel like 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.640 she is my nine to five hotty partner in crime. 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.840 She's me. I think we have so much in common 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.560 with the way she's approached her career and her inspirational 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.559 message of how anyone out there, even if you're working 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.600 nine to five, you can still build wealth. I am 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.200 so happy to welcome Sonia to the show. Sania founded Flyinance, 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.039 which is an online platform dedicated to helping ambitious working women, 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.959 who she calls nine to five hotties, effortlessly build wealth 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.679 and say yes to more travel. She's a product manager 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.320 and she's worked at major companies like AMX and MasterCard, 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.319 and she has grown her salary four x in just 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:45.200 four years, became debt free, and managed to reach one 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.760 hundred K net worth by the tender age of twenty 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.400 six years old. Her story has been featured everywhere from 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.760 GMA to CNBC and now she's on Brown Ambition. So 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.279 now you've made it, Okay, I know GMA is like cool, 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.600 Come on, it's Brown Ambition for Legends right now. 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.240 That's a sad I'm jan girling very hard inside. Thank 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:08.200 you so much, Mady. 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.960 Likewise, Cinia, it's such a pleasure to have you on 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.120 the show. First and foremost, thank you for being I 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.480 feel like I've been banging this drum of quit your 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.600 way rich like kind of alone, and there's this like 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.680 stigma around telling people to quit their jobs. Talk to 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.639 me about and you're you know, you're a few years 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.720 younger than me, right are you? How old are you? 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:31.720 If you don't mind, I'm twenty seven right now? 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.480 Yeah, so you're a few years younger. It was around 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.240 my mid twenties when I started making those really you know, 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.880 strategic quits, and I quit six times in a decade 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.800 of my career. Now, I was in journalism, and I 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.840 remember my little brother kind of telling me, like, why 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:48.679 do you want to go into journalism? Do not want 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:53.440 to make money? And I remember thinking, listen, I tell stories. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.240 I'm gonna go for it. And I managed to quit 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.720 and increase my wealth along the way. But yeah, it 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.240 wasn't like the traditional traditional career trajectory or the traditional 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.800 industry you would think you could build wealth in. Now 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.880 you chose tech or did you tell me a little 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.320 bit about your career journey where you started and when 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.200 you started to realize, oh, I can quit and actually 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:16.919 build wealth here. 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.640 Yes, I love this question. So my career really actually 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:25.760 started in financial services. I landed my very first job 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.880 at Ames on a product management team totally by chance. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:30.239 Right. 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:33.120 I did not know anything about what I wanted my 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.560 career to look like when I graduated from college and 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.760 grad school. This was around twenty seventeen, right, so product 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:45.440 management wasn't quite the hot buzzy, you know career choice 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.160 that it is today. So at that point I was 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.840 just happy to have landed my first big girl salary 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.640 and to land on a team with really great leadership. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.800 But as I kind of spent more time at AMEX 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.800 and really learned that, hey, product management is not only 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.160 something that's very strategic, it is something that I really enjoy. 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.360 I really feel like this is like my zone of genius. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.160 That's kind of when I started to see that, Wow, 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:11.080 there's a lot of opportunity out here for me, and 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.320 a lot of opportunity for me to grow and pivot 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.000 my career. Right, I don't just have to stay at 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.320 this one company. I don't just have to stay in 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.760 this one type of work. So I think tech was 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.520 always kind of something I was drawn too, really curious. 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.599 About, so I really spent more time. 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:30.760 I would say as I became, you know, a bit 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.680 more comfortable with my career my skill sets, to say, hey, 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:35.040 I can take the skills that I have as a 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.440 product manager even though I've only ever worked at big banks, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.320 and turned that into a career in tech. So I 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:46.440 would say that, you know, my my pathway from graduating 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:51.240 school in twenty seventeen to today has been very serendipitous. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:55.120 I've leaned very heavily on my network and really just 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.159 kind of putting myself out there for opportunities and to 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.000 the question around, you know, how I've known when to 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.760 make these strategic jumps. Honestly, it's been like a gut feeling, right, 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.760 And we can definitely talk more about this, But I 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.960 think for me, even as a young black woman, very 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.320 rarely was I ever encouraged to leave a job. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:14.600 Right. 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.599 I left my first job in twenty nineteen. I was 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.599 like twenty four years old, right, So I remember having 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.479 bosses be like, like, oh my gosh, are you sure 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.280 you want to do this? Right? Very much at a 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.839 lot of that, you know, a lot of that language 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.600 around kind of almost like kind of wanting to shame 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:35.240 me for wanting to make these kind of decisions. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.080 This go ahead, okay, young blood, go ahead, you're gonna leave, 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:40.440 You'll come back? 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:41.560 Literally? 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.920 No, literally literally that I feel like that was definitely 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:45.880 that was definitely the energy. But I think for me, 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.400 especially around twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, when I first started 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.000 to learn about financial freedom and the Fire movement, I 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.039 really saw myself being someone that could take advantage of 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.080 that lifestyle of being able to grow my income keep 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:02.960 my expenses relatively the same. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:04.440 So how was I going to do that? 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.839 I had to make more money, So that meant having 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.880 to make some of those quote unquote calculated risks to say, 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.000 m maybe I need to go somewhere else to make 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.160 more money to build my skill set. And that's kind 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.479 of the energy that I've taken with me for the 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.560 past four and a half five years. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.520 Yeah, So what did you study in college? And you 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.080 said you went to grad school, what did you study? 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:30.000 So in college I studied Africana studies. I loved it. 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.919 I absolutely loved it, but there was definitely no immediate 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:38.720 professional ROI right, It's like most of my most of 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:42.600 my peers who major in Africana studies are you know, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:44.359 obtaining PhDs right now. 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.960 Or or work academics. They want to teach them and 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:48.360 be in academia forever. 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:49.599 Literally. 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:51.919 I feel like most of my peers went like the 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.479 Melan maze academia academia away, and then a few of 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.200 us kind of went into more like social justice nonprofit work. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:06:59.760 I think I'm probably the only. 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.520 Person from my class that actually ended up pivoting working 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.720 in corporate and definitely today working in tech and then 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:06.360 graduate school. 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.520 Actually did a one year master's my Masters of Sciences 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.480 and Business Management, so kind. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:12.800 Of gave me more of that business acumen, more of 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.240 those practical skills, and I think more of that confidence 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:17.360 to say, you know, I spent four years in undergrad 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:22.080 kind of shying away from you know, more quant heavy subjects. 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:22.480 Right. 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.640 I was an Africata sci major, So I think that 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.440 master's program really kind of gave me that confidence to say, hey, yeah, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.480 I can do excel. I can you know I can 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.480 read financial charts, which I think really helped me pivot 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.680 and land at an American Express as my first job. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:37.880 Yeah. I think that's wonderful because a lot of people, 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:39.440 I mean, I do a lot of career coaching, and 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.600 a lot of women maybe they study something and they 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.000 or they have experience in a certain field and they 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.200 want to pivot into a new one. So for sure, 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.600 I mean, talk to me about the interview process. When 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.120 with you with your Africana studies background. Did you go 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.400 back to get your MBA because you were struggling to 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.440 find work or was that just part of the plan. 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.559 You know, this will help me as I interview yeah. 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.680 So, well, when I was a senior in college, I 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:06.280 had no idea what I wanted to do professionally. Right, 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.960 I went to this really great school, I went to Barnard. 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:11.640 I was at this really great school, but had no 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.360 job offer, And so senior fall I really started to think, Okay, 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.880 I have two choices, right, I can either try really 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:22.440 hard to convince an interview or on the other side 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:26.000 that this Africana studies degree can help me work in 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.760 a more business aligned job. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:30.600 Or I can. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.920 See, hey, there are a lot of At that time, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:34.680 there were a lot of these programs kind of popping 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.200 up at Duke wake Forest and other kind of business schools, 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.760 kind of giving people like me non traditional backgrounds, lower 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:46.360 arts backgrounds, and opportunity to break sort of speak, break 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.440 into more business focus fields. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:50.920 So that's actually what I ended up doing. I ended 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:51.560 up taking. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.680 I ended up deciding to get my master's right out 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.800 of undergrad one because it was fully funded, right, So 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.200 I served a full ride fellowship and then too because 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.160 to your point, I really did struggle, I guess kind 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.760 of telling my story really to the point where I 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.440 could land offers. Right, So I did a lot of 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.679 interviewing I was interviewing for a lot of rotational associate 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.240 programs at that time because I felt like I had 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.040 a lot of skills and didn't really see myself narrowly 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.600 fitting into one right now, in hindsight, I wish someone 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.000 would have told me, hey, you could be a product manager, 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.880 but that was never something that I even knew about. 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.840 Right So that's why I decided to get my master's. 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:33.760 It was fully funded. It gave me an opportunity to 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.440 be a student again, something I'm really good at. I'm 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.800 really good at rechurch regurgitating information. But it also gave 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.079 me a chance to kind of like have another year 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.640 to kind of figure things out and and be in 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.520 that position where, hey, jobs are coming to me, you know, 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.960 recruiters are looking for me. I'm a student, which which 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.800 really helped me in terms of my interview process. I 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:57.199 casted a really wide net. My master's program was done 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:58.920 at WAKE four, so I was in Winston Sdale and 0:09:58.920 --> 0:09:59.600 North Carolina. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.320 I did not love it down there, so I was. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:07.320 Pretty much putting out increes connections my resume to as 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.000 many companies in the New York area as I could, 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.720 and how I had landed up at AMX was actually 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.800 through networking. I met a lot of different people across AMMEX, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.880 but one person in particular, we really built a really 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.760 great relationship, and it just so happened around the time 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.079 that I was about to graduate from my master's program. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.760 I really needed a job. She made her own personal 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.000 decision to leave AMEX and to leave New York City, 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.679 and she recommended me for her job. So that is 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.720 literally how I ended up on a product management team, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.880 on a high profile product management team at American Express. 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.679 Is my first job by networking, hustling, building relationships and 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:44.760 a little bit of. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.440 Luck, yeah, I mean, and thank you for giving a 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.280 shout out to Lady Luck, because it is a piece 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.800 of it. I mean, it's also open. It's also kind 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:54.839 of approaching your career in a way that you leave 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.239 room for luck, and you leave room for that uncertainty, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.160 which if you're someone who like obsessed with doing things 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.560 on a certain schedule, it's very uncomfortable for you. But 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.280 it's it's hard to articulate that too. That you have 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.120 to put your best foot forward, like you said, the 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.880 build those relationships, but then you got to wait for 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.800 an opportunity, right, and a little bit of is luck 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.800 and how wonderful that someone was able to kind of 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.000 put you in that position for success. Now I'm sure 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.880 that she recommended you, but she still had to interview 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.480 for the job right and get in the door. So 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.280 I mean, congrats to you for that. When you so 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.920 going from kind of liberal arts to sitting down at 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.440 a financial services company, what was that transition like? 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.120 So I will I will say I think that one 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.200 year and my master's program really set me up well 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:39.120 for success. 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:40.920 Now I will say I'm an overachiever. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.720 So I was that person even in this really intense, 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.280 you know, master's program that I always pushed myself for 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.400 more So I end up graduating the top of my 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.960 class for my master's program, was inducted into Beta Gama Sigma, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.040 which is a business honors society. 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.520 So I my studies really seriously. 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.880 I really took that year really seriously to learn and 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.319 absorb as much as I could. And I think as 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.320 a result, when I got to financial services, got to 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.600 AMES and here I was doing analytics. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.880 Right, I was in Excel. I was you know, having to. 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.760 Create really educating create stories for my team around the 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.880 data that was coming back from our car members Like 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.400 It was kind of easy, right, because I'd spent this 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.760 year really really trying to build up these skills that 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.400 I felt like I didn't really have a chance to 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.640 practice an undergrad And I think as a result, I 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.400 think that that's why I was really successful at AMES. 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.600 I think one being really sad for success, but I 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.000 was also extremely lucky to land on a team where 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.560 I had really strong leaders and women leaders who really 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.160 were invested in me being successful, right, who mentored me 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.040 and said, yeah, I know, this is your first corporate job, 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:54.800 and this is how you can do things right. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.240 This is the brand and. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.600 The culture at AMEX, and this is how you can 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.800 show up and show your best self right, And that 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.160 really helped me. Right, Even as I think about my 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.200 experience as a young black professional at AMES and the 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.240 short amount of time that I was there, I think 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:14.360 I was able to get promotions and have really high 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.280 profile opportunities because I had such strong leadership and strong 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.760 mentorship and sponsorship. Right that, as I looked at some 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.880 of my other peers, who were just as intelligent as me, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.200 just as capable as me, not having those pieces, especially 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.800 in a corporate culture like AMEX, I think kind of 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.680 kept them from I think getting some of the markers 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.440 of achievement and success that I think. 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:38.240 That they were really owed. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.600 So I would say the transition wasn't it wasn't too tough, 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.080 but there was definitely a learning curve, as there is 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:45.960 any time you join a new organization. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.040 Yeah, a couple of things I want to talk go 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.640 back to you really quick. You mentioned a fellowship that 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:54.240 got you a full ride scholarship or how did you 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.720 How did you find that opportunity to get your degree 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.320 paid for? Because I think that's important for listeners to 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:00.960 maybe get a tip from that. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:02.600 Yeah. 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.600 So the tip from that is put yourself out there 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.840 for any and all opportunities. So, I mean the opportunity 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.320 that allowed me to get a full ride fellowship to 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.959 get my master's program actually goes back to even when 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.720 I was applying to colleges in high school. I was 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.840 that girl that went to the library, got a scholarship book, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.000 knew my parents could not afford to send me to college, 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.280 and just applied to everything that I was eligible for. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.160 One of those things was being a part of the 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.640 rom Brown scholars Network. Now I was not a rom 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.760 Brown scholar. I did not receive all of the money, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:35.680 but I was a part of their network and took 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.960 advantage of all the opportunities that they would send to 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:40.440 students in the network. 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:40.640 Right. 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.000 So I ended up getting an internship one year in 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.320 college through that network, and they were also partnering with 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.800 the wake Forest School of Business to promote this new 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.040 program and promote the fellowship. So when I saw that 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.920 it's like free ride, y'all gonna pay for my room 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.840 and board and I can get a master's Oh yeah, okay, 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:57.520 I'm going to do this. 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:58.640 So that's what I did. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:04.320 And I I had the delusional confidence that I was exact, 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.120 I was going to be picked right like. I went 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.160 into my interview saying, when I am a corporate fellow 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.800 for this program, these are the people I want to 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.640 sponsor me, right like. And I think that confidence and 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.320 I think my my persistence, I think is what helped 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.960 me get that. Right So, I think the tip there 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.160 is anytime you see an opportunity, don't be afraid to 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.800 go for it. Right. I think, especially as women, as 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.840 women of color, especially as Black women, we receive so 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.160 many messages that tell us we're not worthy enough, we're 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.080 not capable enough. But I think I've always kind of 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.240 kept with myself that, hey, if I see something that's 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.440 that's out there that speaks to me, I'm going to 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.320 put myself out there because I never know what can 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.960 come out of it. Right, My seventeen year old self 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.400 set my twenty one, twenty two, and now twenty seven 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.920 year old self up for so much success, and she 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:52.000 didn't even know it back then. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:58.480 Oh, baby, Sania, thanks baby, said to her, all right, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.880 another thing that I was thinking, Well, you were speaking about, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.480 you know, you being and thank you for pointing out 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.320 the importance of those relationships and having sponsorship and actually 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.920 putting your best foot forward to build those relationships and 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.880 not necessarily being the person. You get a job and 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.160 you come then and you just think you're going to 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.320 quietly sit in your cubicle and that someone will just 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.600 tap you on the shoulder and say you you, we've 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.400 noticed you. That's not how it happens. Building relationships is 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.160 so important and getting that sponsorship did that make it? 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.160 And this is I'm going to ask you this question. 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.560 And the reason I'm asking it is because I think 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.720 you and I both agree that when you quit jobs, 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.920 there is that perception that you know or You're often 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.240 told be grateful, be loyal. People took a chance on you, 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:42.720 and you had people who were going to bat for 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.280 you within your company at AMEX. So but you still 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.080 left and I love that. So talk to me about 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.040 your decision around leaving and why, when, what all that stuff. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.000 Yeah, so let me set the scene for you. So, 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.960 my decision to leave AMEX the very first company I 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.320 ever worked at, and to your point, where I had 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.880 a lot of brand equity, right, not just on my 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.440 immediate team, but I had leaders across the company who 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.240 knew me, believed in me, were putting. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.040 Me in a position to win. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.760 I think it's it started to conflict with my holistic 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.520 vision of what I had for myself, and that was 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.200 to become more financially sound. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.480 That was to start building wealth. 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.919 That was to have more money so that I could 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.240 get over some of the financial challenges that I felt 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.040 like I was kind of in. Right, So twenty eighteen, 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.439 I've now had spent a year working full time, and 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.800 I was fucking my money up, right. I was that 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.320 girl that was just kind of like, yeah, it's okay, 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.480 I have my first set of credit cards. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.040 I'm just online, you know. Yeah, I was bretting really hard. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:50.880 I was ubering really hard at these were the days 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.040 of uberpool. Oo oh my gosh. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.720 Right, So I was having a good time, right, I 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.640 was having a great time in New York. I would argue, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.720 as you should have done, but yeah, yeah, definitely, And 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.400 I don't regret those times at all. But as a result, right, 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.479 not having any type of financial acumen when it came 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.720 to money management, I put myself into a lot of debt, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.720 and it was debt that I couldn't afford to pay. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.879 When I kind of looked back at and those times, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.960 it was like, I have this decent salary, I have 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.840 a great salary as a single woman in New York, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.320 but I have nothing to show for it. I don't 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.200 have any savings. Now, I have all this debt that 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.720 I put myself into. I don't have anyone I can 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.000 go to and be like, oh mom and dad, can 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.960 you send me a small loan of ten thousand dollars 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.120 to pay off these credit cards? Like it just wasn't 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.400 It wasn't a thing, right, So that was a big 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.320 wake up call for me, Right, Yeah, that was a 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:35.280 big wake up call for me. 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.760 It was about ten thousand dollars of credit card debt. 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:38.760 Yeah, I had. 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.280 I one summer I put myself in ten thousand dollars 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:42.080 a credit card debt. 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.439 So, wow, tell you girl, was living really good? Did 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:45.199 you take a vacation. 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.840 I was traveling, I was seeing out. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.160 I was going to Polo Classic, buying one hundred dollars 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:52.119 bottles of Bilfleco. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.000 Like I was living. Okay, I was living. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.600 I was living right, I can say that now, but 0:18:58.680 --> 0:18:59.840 I mean in the moment, I had a lot of 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.359